Transcription
Facts tell, but stories sell. When you begin to tell stories about different times in your life, it gives you dimension, and it actually alters their perspective and time of you. If I had one wish, yet it would be that the people could have seen me in the beginning. What would they see? They would have seen a person that wasn't a very good communicator. As they said, "Don't tell personal stories, it'll make people think that you're kind of like a narcissist or an egomaniac." But one day, I just told a personal story, and everything came alive. When I tell my story, it lives in me. Moral authority comes from the life that you've lived. We teach you what we know, but we reproduce who we are. Stories are who we are. You just have to get over yourself. It is not about me, it's about the audience. How can I connect with? What can I say? How can I help them? Where are they? You know, you have to find them before you can lead them. I gotta find myself to know myself. I gotta know myself to be myself. I got to be myself to improve myself. I got to improve myself so I can get over myself so I could give myself to you. Success is about me. Significance is about others. That is fulfilling. That's a master class all time right there. All time.
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All right, welcome back to the show, everybody. You know, every once in a while, I like to use my platform to highlight an up-and-comer. You know, like a rookie, just somebody who needs some elevation in their life. And so today is what it is. I'm just kidding. This, my guest today, is uh writing his 88th book. He is a legend. He is a mentor to me. He's a friend. I'm getting emotional already. Um, and he is a hero of mine. And uh, I aspire to be more like him in my life, and I'm so grateful that he's in my life. I'm so grateful that he's going to share this time with us today for the third time on the show. And every time he's on, the downloads go crazy. And he's also one of the greatest communicators who's ever lived, and he's written a book about it. And if anybody is qualified to write this book, it is this man. His new book is called The 16 Undeniable Laws of Communication. Apply them and make the most of your message. And he does it every time I'm with him. John Maxwell, welcome back to the show, brother.
Ed, it's so good to be with you. And when you're talking about my stuff, let me tell you something, I could just flip that and ditto right back to you. My gosh, you talk about great communicators. Every time I hear you, you just take me to a whole new level. I learn from you. And uh, so I love you very much, and I love the impact. I love your heart for people, and I love the impact that you're making around the world. And every time we had you come out and do our Live Elite conference last year, that went all around the world. And I'm telling you, and they're still, they're still talking about your talk. And it just had it, it, in fact, I had to come up after you were done and follow you. And I, I really wanted to get up and just say, "It's over." I mean, you know, there are, there are sometimes when the benediction is so good, you don't need another benediction. Just kind of close it, go home. And you just killed it. You killed it.
We're still changing that ball. We haven't found it, but people tell us it's in one direction, so we're still trying to find it. But thank you. I love you, and I love being on your show, and thanks for having me. And uh, let's have some fun with the people.
Yeah, I got to tell you, um, thank you. That was one of the most nervous times I've ever had speaking because it was you and your, in the front row. And I wanted to do such a good, I don't know why I'm so emotional today.
Well, let me tell you something, you killed it. I think it just moved me and the people. I mean, they're still, they're still talking about the talk. And uh, thank you.
So anyway, well, go ahead. What are we going to say?
Never, whenever we're together, it works. You know, it just works. It does work. But when you're on the stage, you listen. Um, by the way, John's not just a great communicator on the stage, he's incredible as you can see here, but also one-on-one. In his presence, he's just, he has this just ability to make you feel like the most important person.
Well, he's, here's what he does. He makes an impact. And that's what he teaches you in this book. And I read the whole book, John, by the way. You just got it to me. And it's like any of your books, like I can read them more than one time. And I can usually read them in one or two sittings because they're easy reads. You do something you talk about in the book. We might as well just start there. You have the ability to take really complicated things and make them seem simple. Yeah. And you talk about that is actually one of the laws in the book of being able to be a great communicator. Is that something that you do? I'm sure you do it intentionally, but do you do it naturally?
Well, I do it intentionally. Uh, let me say this, I was a good, good student, but I wasn't a great student. And so a lot of times when I was in college or in a classroom, I would want the professor to break it down and make it much more simple. I would look around the room, I said, "Am I the only one that's having a hard time here?" And, and not maybe grasping and learning like I need to. And so I really, as a student, I worked on helping. When I would hear a talk, I would say, "How could that be reduced? How can I apply it to my life?" Yeah. And so it almost started as a, as a student. And, and I learned to reduce things and, and bring them down. And I tell people all the time, I'm a communicator, not an educator. You know, an educator takes something simple and makes it complicated. I mean, that's just who they are. I mean, honestly, if you're in the education world, if you're not confused, they're not pleased. You know what I'm saying? And, uh, and then, but then a communicator takes something complicated, makes it simple. And so my whole goal is to make things very palatable for people. Uh, one of the things I teach in the book is the fact that if you have to keep explaining what you just said, you haven't said it right the first time. I mean, and how many times we have a person will explain and explain, then just sit there and think, "Why didn't you take some time on the front end?" Yeah. "To simplify this so that everybody can apply it to their life?" And, and I, there are three, real quickly, there are three kind of, I take the simplistic. I start with simplistic, and simplistic is not good. It's, it's, it's fast, and it's, it's, it's easy, but it's not really deep and helpful. And, and, and it's a, it's a half-truth. It's never a whole truth, you know? So what if I say things like, um, "Experience is the best teacher"? That's a simplistic statement, but it's not true. If it were true, then as people got older, everybody get better. And I know a whole bunch of people, they're getting, they're getting older, but they're not getting better. The experience isn't helping them at all. Although experience is not the best teacher, reflection and learning from that experience is the best teacher. Wow. So, so how do I get from "experience is the best teacher" to "reflection and learning from experience is the best teacher"? Well, you've got to go from simplistic to complicated or complex. In other words, you've got to wrestle with the statements. And, and you've got, yeah, and you've got contextually take them from every angle until you can come to something that is really solid, and something that is really true, and something that really works. And so just as simplistic is easy and fast, you know, complex, complicated is is slow and deep. But once you come through that comp, and it takes a while to do that, once you come through it on the, on the simple side, now it, it, it's fast, but it's deep. In other words, people can grab it real quick, but then they go home and they think about it, Ed, and they just, they just can't, they can't get away from it. Like when you wrote the book, when you book, the, when you wrote the book, "The Power of One More," that is so simple that you can grasp it immediately, but you can't, you have to spend a lot of time on it to work it out in your life.
What a great point. Yeah, what a great point. Yeah.
And so there, so here's the, here's the issue I think in communication. Uh, when I was young, when I was a young communicator, I, I saw that I had charisma, and I saw that I could probably get by on stage with the, with having fun with people and enjoying them and making them laugh. And I, I came to this decision: Am I going to, am I going to wing it, or am I going to work for it? Um, and I was tempted to wing it because I could wing it, and I could get by with it. See, here's the challenge: When you're gifted in a certain area, you can wing it and still be successful, right? You could be in that top 20 percent. Yes. But to work for it, that, that's a whole different game. And, and, and in the law of Simplicity, you have to work for this. You, you have to work for work. Simple is hard work. But if you work for it, you can get the top two percent. Yeah. And so what I tell people all the time is the tendency and the temptation is in giftedness is you don't give it all because you just don't have to give it all. I mean, it's just, it comes. But because you don't give it all, you, you do well, but you don't do very, very well. But if you would just work on that area of giftedness, you'd get in that top two percent. And you know as well as I do, if you're in the top two percent, whatever it is, you own whatever you want to own. It's, the world is yours. And so simple, I decided at a very young age, in my 20s, I was going to work for it. I'm just going to work for it. And I spent a lot of time. I, this morning, I was, I write every day. This morning, I was writing and I was wanting to make a statement. And I, I worked on a statement probably for 40 minutes. And it, I, I write it, and I said, "That's not quite right." Gotta worry. No, no, it's done. Still to fit. And then finally, about 20 minutes, I thought, "Okay, I got it. There it is. There it is." So I get up and I make the statement, and people say, "Oh my gosh, the guy just, that just flows out of him." No, no, it didn't flow out of me. It, it didn't either. It had to cook and work it inside of me a long time. And, but I get it to the place where it flows out of me. But yeah, it doesn't flip. Good stuff doesn't happen automatically.
No, no. You know, when I, when I tell people that I do that too, that are other speakers, I kind of watch oftentimes their face kind of glaze over like, "You really do that?" I'll say, "I do because I do want to, I want to be as effective as I can." By the way, I should have started out by saying to everybody that you can go to 16laws of communication.com, and that's with the one six in it. 16laws of communication.com. Get the book. And I guess there's favorable pricing in there too. You can actually get it for less. So 16laws ofcommunication.com. You go get it. Listen, I can just say this with all conviction in the world. The best books I've read collectively in my life are John's books. And the best speaker that I admire that I look up to is John. So when he writes a book on this topic, it is something that you need to have. And for the record, everybody, some of you are listening to going, "I'm afraid to speak. I don't know that I should be." And one of the brilliant things in the book is, and I'll have you talk about this, John, is that a great speaker, and I have found this. I think when I was young, when I would speak, if I'm being honest, part of it was about me. Probably a significant part. Meaning, I wanted to impress them. I wanted to wow them. You know, I wanted them to think I was great. That did a few things. One, I made less of a connection. But two, it put tremendous pressure on me because it was about me. And a lot of you that are afraid of speaking, that would probably be great at it, it's because you're approaching it already from it being about you. And if you would just shift the impact to the service of others, your piece about even trying to do it would change, and you'd be a 10 times better speaker. So that's one of the laws in the book too. So we might as well start there because I think some people need to come into this tent of speaking, John, to the tent of communication, that thinks they don't belong in our tent, and they do belong in the tent. Their flawed thinking is they think it's about them, and that creates anxiety and fear, which is sort of ego-driven. So talk about that for a second.
100 percent, my friend. 100 percent. It's, it's the law of connecting. And the law of connecting just simply says, "Connect. Communicators know that it's all about others. It's, it's all about others." And I, I can identify exactly when I started speaking, it was all about me. I mean, I, I hope they like me. I hope I say it right. Did I say it right? Oh my gosh. And, and, and, and it, it became like a, I was a nervous bundle. Yes, because I was, I was, uh, man, I, I hope I did okay. So when people say, "John, what's the one thing?" You know, there are 16 laws, but what's the one thing to be a great communicator? Well, the one thing, Ed, is you have to get over yourself. You just have to get over yourself. It is not about me. It's about the audience. It's not about me. It's about the small group I'm dealing with. It's not about me. It's about the one person I'm talking, having a one-on-one conference. It's all about them. And until I can get over myself, because if I can't, if it's about me, I can't really add value to you. If I'm thinking about me, I'm not that good. I don't have the ability to think about me and think about you and be good on both ends. I'm a little limited. Maybe someone, maybe some people can, but I can't. So if it's going to be about you, I've got to be thinking about you. And I've got to be focused on you. And very quickly, you'll realize, "John really wants to help me and add value to me." I mean, it's contagious, and it's that connection. So I tell people to get over themselves. And, and, uh, so what we did, it, when, when this book released, we did a video. And I told the people that were producing, I said, "I want to start the video in the audience." I said, "I want to, I want, I, I don't want you to shoot me on stage." And I was in the audience all by myself, sitting in a, in a, in a chair. And, and, and, and they assumed in me. And I said, "This is where great speaking begins, right here." I have to constantly be thinking about the people. And, and how can I connect with? What can I say? How can I help them? Where are they? You know, you have to find them before you can lead them. And you, you just don't start leading people. You just don't start speaking. You have to find them. As soon as you find them, now all of a sudden, you have the credit. So I, this whole, "get over yourself." Let me tell you a fun story. There's a, a company in Nashville. This, this guy has a very successful writing company. And he's read my books. In fact, he came to me, I didn't know him. He said, "I built my business off your stuff." And he said, "You ought to write songs based on your books." Well, I looked up as a man, I've never done that before. But you know me, I, I'm 76, but I, I keep growing, I keep learning, I keep, I mean, why not try this? So I went to Nashville. And he put me in the studio with like, the guys that wrote number one hits. I mean, big hits. They were, you know, I'm like, I always say, "If you're at the head of the class, you're in the wrong class." Well, I shouldn't even been in the class on this one. I mean, these, these guys were pros. And, and I'm in there throwing that. And, and so we took the book on the laws of communication. And I said, "I would like to use the 'get over myself' theme." And so we wrote a song called "Get Over Myself." And so if you're a listeners, all you gotta do is go wherever you, you know, I don't know where you get your, your music, but wherever you get it, just, you know, get, get "Get Over Myself." And the chorus says, and the chorus says it all. It says, "I gotta find myself to know myself. I got to know myself to be myself. I got to be myself to improve myself. I gotta improve myself so I can get over myself so I can give myself to you." Oh, wow. That's very good. And the song is going crazy. The song's going crazy. I got it. I got another one from my book, uh, uh, "Make Today Count," called, uh, uh, "Day by Day." And I got my, sometimes when, sometimes you learn book or songs will come out next month. But I'm having a blast writing these songs. And of course, again, I'm, I'm the least of the least. And they're so kind to even let me in the studio with them. But I'm throwing this stuff up, and we're just having, we're having a blast. But I, I tell you, the moment that you think about the audience, and I can hardly wait to speak. I'm not nervous at all. I can hardly wait to speak because I'm going to go out and I'm going to give them something that is going to help their life. And that is so fulfilling and so enriching to me that it gets me over anything that is about me.
Yeah. Are you getting ready to win a Grammy? This will be, you're going to win a Grammy for your music.
Now, I have no idea. But I know I'm having fun. You know, again, I don't know if you all understand this. John's 76 years old. And I think you all go, "Hey, man, you, Ed, you work hard." They see my social media and my pace. And I am telling you, this is not, this is not, I'm not being nice. John is everywhere all the time, crushing it, crushing it. Yeah. Like before we went on, he's told me about golf that he just played. There's a way to have, I think one of the keys to longevity is that you do live a full, rich life, but you do bust your tail the entire time. John is, I've been with John's, but I just got from Europe. I'm going here now. I'm in Tennessee. Oh, I got to fly to California. My gosh, am I getting out worked by John? And by the way, you can tell his enthusiasm level is through the roof as well. I want to ask you this, though. Did you just say you're not nervous when you speak? Do you not get nerves at all anymore?
No, no.
Have you had, I think you tell a story, though, a time you did. I think you're going to Boston. I think it's going to Boston, maybe. Yeah. I, I study you. So you're going to Boston. Is I think the story goes, you were replacing a speaker or something, but there's a great lesson in this story. Do you know the one I'm talking about?
Oh, yeah. You talk about Peter Lowe when he had his seminars again. And, and he called me one day. And, uh, I was home. And he said that, uh, oh gosh, I'm the guy that was Superman in the movies, okay? He was sick. And he was the last speaker on the day. And he said, "I, I can't speak today." And so Peter says, he called me in the morning and said, "John, can you get up to Boston and, and, and, and fill in?" I said, "Well, yeah." So I jumped on a plane and I went up to Boston. And I got there just maybe 30 minutes before I was supposed to speak. And so I'm kind of backstage to get me all hooked up. And then I find out they haven't told the crowd, "Hello, hello." They haven't told the crowd, "Christopher Reeve is sick. He isn't going to be here." The crowd, they've been staying all day waiting for Superman to come show. And, and I'm saying, and I'm backstage, "You haven't told them yet? What do you mean? What are you doing to me? They're looking for Superman. They're not going to get Superman. They're going to get the Pillsbury Doughboy out there. They're not getting Superman. They're getting fat man." I kid you not. They went out right before now. They're all, "Christopher Reeve here. You come. Superman's about to come." "Sure. We're so sorry. You know, Christopher Reeve couldn't come today. We have John Maxwell." Well, 300 people get up and walk out as I'm coming out on stage. They're already leaving. I mean, they're already leaving. And then when they see me, another 200 people get up and they're, and it's like, it's like horrible. And I, I looked at him and of course, all you could do is you just start laughing and say, "You know, I'm, I'm so sorry." You know what I'm saying? You know, now the good news is, once I started speaking, no one else left. But it, yeah, I mean, hello. I mean, who's going to, who's going to replace Superman?
Did you say something when you came out to grab their attention or to get them or to connect with them? Did you say something?
"Guess what? I'm not Superman. I'm in trouble, and you're going to have to help me. But if you'll stay with me, I'm going to, I'm going to help you." And, you know what I did? I got them on my side. Really. What I did is what you, what you do in cases like it's like the international audience. When I speak internationally, I ask them questions all the time. I'll say, "Now, I want to tell you a story, but does this happen in your, your culture?" And sometimes we'll say, "Yes." And I'll say, "Okay, let me tell you what happens." Is if you do that, you engage them, and very quickly, they become an ally, and they, they get on your side. And, and so they help us. When they realized that I wasn't Superman, they said, "Well, fat man needs my help. I'm going to hang out with him." And they did. And, and so it came out okay. But obviously, I was set up. I mean, I was set up for. There's no, there's no goody thing about. I mean, when I saw that on back, never in my life have I been more tempted to turn around. Gosh, I can't even imagine. Hey, not only a Superman sick, fat man just got sick too. You know, I, I'm actually crying. I'm actually crying thinking about it. And by the way, you guys, I, I know that because he's my dear friend, I say this, but I, I want you to get this book. I just really believe that more people could be great communicators than believe that they actually think they can be. And so go to 16laws of communication.com and get John's book. The thing that John, I think is maybe the best I've ever seen at, and it's one of the laws, it's law number 12 in the book. You have to read the book to get all the laws, everybody. We're going to go through a few of them today. But what are the laws in the book? And by the way, you all are good at this. You just need to work on the skill because there's certain areas of your life you're already great at it. And that is that I think great speakers, in fact, my favorite people to be around at a dinner or a lunch are storytellers, people who can tell a story. And law number 12 is the law of Storytelling, which you just did so well right there. But elaborate on that a little bit, because I, I watch a lot of speakers throw a bunch of facts and PowerPoint and slide this and slide that. And I'm like, "Facts tell, but story sell," right? Like, I want to hear a story. I'm going to remember the story. So talk about that a little bit.
Well, you know what? I think when you're with us the last time, you're talking a lot about the story of your father, you know? It, it just, what it does is it humanizes the speech. When you tell a story, immediately you're telling their story because when I tell a story, we all have calmness in our life. And all of us have commonness and experiences. That's why when you're in a group and somebody tells a story, what's it do? It triggers somebody else's, "Oh, and I remember I remember doing." And all of a sudden, you're going around the table and you're just bouncing off each. But what happens is stories stimulate our own personal journey and our own personal stories. And, and it becomes, it becomes something that everybody can identify with. You know, I, I grew up as a theologian, so I was trained in theology. And basically, one of the things they taught me, which was terrible, is they said, "Don't tell personal stories because it'll, it'll, it'll make people think that you're kind of like a narcissist or an egomaniac." And, and so for about a, for my first year, I didn't tell any personal stories. I just told stories. And, and they were good. But one day, I just told a personal story, and everything came alive. And what I found out was that when I tell my story, it lives in me. And it has it. When I'm teaching our lesson or I'm speaking, I can either transfer information from me to you, which is not effective, or it, if it goes through me to you, wow, there's a difference between coming from me to you and through me to you. And so whenever I'm doing my writing of a lesson, I always make sure that I have some personal illustrations in it. And I always, and, and ask, and the other thing is, I ask myself when I'm doing that, "Do I live this? Is this something I'm living?" Because when I was young in my 20s, at, I, I made an important decision that I was only going to teach what I lived and what I believed. And I just wasn't going to teach. And so there are a lot of things I don't teach, teach at all. And some of them are probably very good, but I just don't live them. Right. I, I maybe don't believe them. And, and I, what I found is personal conviction, the moral authority comes from the life that you've lived. And, and, and, and so we, we teach you what we know, but we reproduce who we are. And, and stories are who we are. And they're, they're so transferable. Do people remember numbers? Do people not remember stats? I don't even use like, I don't know, charts and things like that, honestly. And the reason I don't use them is because I never understood them myself. And so it's kind of like, if I can't figure them out, if you can't figure them out, you sure can't teach them, that's for sure. And so, but stories live. They have, they have breath to them. And, and they draw all the people in immediately. And when you know, when you, again, when you were at our conference, you were so superb. You were so superb. And you started talking about your relationship with your dad. Everybody had a relationship with a dad. Yeah. By the way, so did you. I want to acknowledge something about you. Want to say one thing, everybody. I was just sitting here listening to you. I was thinking, man, this is pretty cool for people to listen to two of the, you know, more sought-after speakers in the world talk about this topic. And then the best, John has written this book about it. But that day, so by the way, what I try to do is try a me story with a you meaning. Yeah. Meaning, I'm telling a story about me, but you're getting your own meaning from it. That's an important key, everybody. When you tell stories, and John's the master at this, but that day, the other thing it does is it gives you more dimension. So what they see when you walk out on stage is the current version of you. And when you begin to tell stories about different times in your life, it gives you dimension. And it actually alters their perspective and time of you. So even that day, and I know you well, after I spoke, it doesn't matter what the story was, everybody, but John then got up and actually, I don't know if you remember this, John, you talked about your dad and lessons he had taught you and what a prayerful, good man he was and lessons. And what it did, it's interesting because even now when I see you, it's different. I want to tell you the impact a story can have. I pictured you as a little boy. And so I've always admired you as a mentor, but you're older than me. You were always like, when I started in this space, the first book I read was your leadership book, "The Irrefutable Laws of Leadership." So I've always pictured you at this version of your life. And when you started to tell this story about your dad, it switched. And now I could see you as a little boy. And then I saw you in your 30s because the story was from those times. And it gave the depth and a connection that went far deeper. Not just the story, but a different time in our lives gives you a dimension when you speak. And it's, it's actually now when I see you, I actually see the little boy and the man that I admire. And it's a very deep connection when somebody does that. And that day, you were emotional speaking about your dad as well. But I just want to acknowledge that something that, that I noticed when you did it that day for me, because I watched a lot of speakers.
Can I jump in on that just for a second? Because this is so helpful because I love, I love your dimension phrase because that's exactly right. If, if I could have one wish granted, um, you see people are seeing me on the back end, and they're seeing me where all the success is. And, yeah, you know, it's compounded through the years. It's just compound. And, and what I say is, in the beginning, you're not as bad as people think you are. But if you do it right, in the end, you're not as good as people think you are because it compounds. And if I had one wish, yet it would be that the people could have seen me in the beginning. What would they see? Well, they would have seen a person that wasn't a very good communicator. Wow. They, they would, they would. Here's why I want them to see me in the beginning. If they saw me in the beginning, everybody would have great hope for themselves. Um, if they saw me in the beginning, every person would say, "I can do that. I, that's as reachable as could be. That guy wasn't that good. I could, hey, I can bore people for 35 minutes like he just bored me." And, and it would, it would be so much because one of the things I don't like about success is it separates us from people. And, and I hate that. I don't want fans, I want friends. I want, I, you know, I want to close that gap. But at this age, it's hard to close that because, okay, I've spoken 13,000 times in over a hundred countries of the world. Of course, I'm a great communicator. If I can't communicate after 13,000 times, go home. Do you understand the wrong profession? Go home. But what people don't understand, it was the practice. Hmm. It's the, you, you cannot separate action from success. And you can't separate intentional practice from success. And so after 13,000 times, of course, I'm good because I've been practicing and practicing and prep. Just like the people that are on the podcast right, they'll be good too. But if they could have seen me on the front end, interesting, it would help them because that's where they are. When you talked about the dimensions of stories, when we tell stories about different times in our life, it does help people see us in, in another dimension that is very helpful for the, for the learning and the growth. But I don't like the separation that success brings. I, I abhor it. I, I wish that I wish there was a way to to close that gap because I, you don't help people when you're separated from people. You only help people when you're beside them and you walk with them, and they can connect with you if that makes sense.
Yeah. You said something to me once, I'll mess the quote up, but I actually quote you when I speak, um, because I, I also believe self-deprecation, making fun of yourself, is a great way to connect with people if it's true and sincere, right? When you, when you speak, and I mess the quote up, but I actually quote you in the current version of what I'm talking about. And I quote something you said to me. I quoted incorrectly, but it goes along these lines that you said to me, Ed, something like, "If you really want to, uh, impress people, show them how perfect you are. But if you want to connect with people, reveal to them your imperfections."
Yeah. Totally. It's the impact. Impress, impact. If you want to impress people, talk about your success. You want to impact them, talk about your failures. And the reason I think that's important is because I think a lot of people think they have to have all these impressive things they've achieved in their life prior to making an impact on people. Now, I do believe you should have some type of a track record and have done something when you're speaking about it. But I don't believe you have to be this tremendous success in order to make an impact. In fact, I think sometimes that your proximity to the audience in terms of how far you are from them in your success, some of that proximity is actually a really good thing. And that, that success does separate you, if you're not careful, from the audience. One of the things that you do when you speak, this is subtle, and it's maybe too subtle to share on the podcast, but I watch it in you, and it's something that I think is, it's probably one of the only other two laws we'll cover because I wanted to get the book, but you use better than anyone ever, silence when you speak. Yeah, you use it. And my stand-up comedian friends always tell me when I speak, Ed, the funny is after the jokes told, it's in the silence. And when I speak, the biggest change in my speaking over the years is my comfort level with silence. When I talk, that an amateur speaker or a newer speaker doesn't like silence. They talk too fast, and they talk too much, in my opinion. You are the all-time best at the pause and the moment in between the words so that it makes an impact. I make mistakes sometimes, even still to this day, John, where I've made an impact, and I go right into the next thing, and I don't let that impact sit with the audience long enough. So please talk about that.
Yeah, I'd love to. I call it in the book, "The Power of the Pause." And, and I, I'm very intentional. Let me just say, first of all, in my coaching with people, I find that the hardest thing to coach people in speaking is the pause. And for, for a long time, I kept asking myself, Ed, "Why is it that when I share with them that they need to pause more, that they don't do it?" And I finally came up with the answer. In fact, when I was writing the book, it finally hit me. The reason that we're uncomfortable when we speak with pausing is the moment I stop, I give up control to the audience. Very good. And we subconsciously don't want to give up control. We want to control. We know where we want to go with the speech. And here's where we are. And so, so we keep talking, talking, talking. I got control. I got control. When I stop, all of a sudden, I allow the audience to think. And just like your comedian friends, they're exactly right. That pause is where what they said that was really funny. I'll tell you what the pause does. The pause underlines your words. Um, so when I pot, when I say something like, "People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care." If I pause, wow, the people are on that thought. They're underlining that thought mentally. If I don't pause, I immediately move them on. And, and what I do is most speakers, they play catch-up the whole time. Most speakers get in front of their audience and they speak without pausing, without giving that, uh, that time for people. And so what happens is the people are trying to catch up with them the whole time, and they're, they're never be, they're never with them because they're behind them. If somebody's behind me, whatever I'm saying doesn't have its full effect. So that pause is so huge because it gives the audience a chance to, what basically I'm saying is, is you can, you can catch up with me. I'm gonna let you catch up. And, and then, and then when I pause and I turn around and I walk back to my, to my bar stool and sit down and then look at them, it's entirely different, man. I, I remember in school when if the, if the kids were rowdy, what would the school teacher do? Sometimes they would just stop talking. Yeah. And the site, and finally, even the kid that talked the most, that all of a sudden, everybody is very conscious. Nobody's talking. And, and this teacher got control of the room by not saying anything until everybody got up to, up to speed with, if that, if that makes, if that makes sense. And, and the pause is so powerful for transition. It's, it's, it's a powerful, it's a powerful pivoting tool. And it allowed, I'll tell you what else it does. It allows people to feel emotionally. If we speak fast all the time, they can't feel the emotionally the words. And if they can't feel emotionally the words, the words don't have the same impact on them. I'm receiving them mentally. But when I pause, they now can, they can, they can digest those words. Geez, why? And they could put them on the inside. And now all of a sudden, I'm emotionally connected with you, Ed, because you just gave me a chance not only to hear what you said, you gave me a chance to go down inside of me and feel what you said, which is just absolutely huge. And, and one more thing. I mean, the pause is just powerful. And I think this is a big miss. I think that when you pause, you give people a chance to hear the whisper. And, you know, I'm a person of faith. I'm not trying to throw that on anyone else. But, but, but, but when you say things that are substantial and things that have meat to them and have application to them, if you pause, sometimes what you said, God, the spirit, whatever, whispers to your heart. In fact, I ask myself when I hear a speaker, "Did I hear the whisperer any time during the speech?" And I can only hear the whisper if the speaker lets me have a little time, I don't know, a couple seconds, just to settle in and hear. And, and, you know, Henry Nowen said, "Silence is an act of war against the competing voices within us." And I just think, I love that statement. Henry Nowen was a great thinker, great, great, he was a great man. But, but, but I, I love it. And I think it's my responsibility. I want them to hear my voice, but there's a higher voice. That's a master class right there. That's it. If I pause, Ed, I give him a shot of hearing the higher. And let me tell you this, my voice, they'll forget. The higher voice, they will not forget. All time right there. All time right there. That's an Alzheimer.
You guys, as someone who does a lot of this, um, I can tell you right now, that is profound wisdom right there. And something that you feel it when that higher voice is whispering to you, you feel it. You don't hear it, you feel it. And that's when a speaker has done an unbelievable job as they get out of the way and let that higher voice make the impact on you. And that's what you did at L2L when you were with us. That's exactly what you did. I promise you, you've learned the pause. You've learned it. I, hey, I, I learned it from a, a, a, a beautiful African-American preacher in South Los Angeles, in the Watts area. And I, I would go up and speak for him. We were friends. E.V. Hill was his name. E.V. Hill, he's passed away. And I watched him. And when he got to something that was really important, what he did is he, the pause also creates great anticipation. And he would get us right to where we were ready to hear this unfolding, unbelievable thought. I'll never forget, take a handkerchief, kind of wipe his face, walk around to the other side of the pulpit, lean in, and then deliver it. And I would watch him and I'd say, "Oh, I want to be just like that." I never got back, I never got that good. But I've tried. It's not that true. I want to say this. I, I swear to you, I don't want this just to be a love affair with you on the show, but I want everyone to understand this. I learned that from you. And I'm not, I'm not saying that because he's here. I've looked at my speaking. I thought, "What, what is this thing he does?" Because John, when he was a little younger, would still stand still. Most of his speech, didn't move around a lot. Wasn't a big pacer. He did some. But now when John speaks, he's even better. And oftentimes he's seated most of the time. And I'm like, "How does he do this?" And it's these unbelievable pauses before a profound statement and after. And he is the best at this. And the reason he's the best at it is because of his faith background. And it is that, is that he does understand that there's a higher voice. And so I, I got that from you. And it's something, by the way, forget stage speaking, everybody. I do that with my children now when I make a point. Of course, I do it in, I do it with my, my wife. I, I want to say something and just let it sit there and feel it and not move on to the next thing. It's, it's where I learned it. It's, um, it's remarkable.
A couple more things because I want to make sure everybody gets the book. So 16laws of communication.com by the single greatest author on, I, I say thought leader, leadership expert, communication expert, I think life expert. When you get to 76 and you've traveled around the world and impacted millions of people, you become somebody who knows a lot about life. And one of the things, though, that you talk a lot about is preparation. And I think this transcends speaking. But when it comes, I'll let you speak about preparation. It's law number four in the book. But for me, one of the years, if I can.
Be specific that I see speakers not prepare enough on is actually how they're going to finish their speech. So, what I watch with speakers is a lot of people know they kind of want to know what they're going to say first because that's the thing they're the most nervous about. "I gotta walk out, what am I going to say first?" And I think sometimes some people know what they're going to say in the middle, like, "What's the point?" But I watch, and I want you to talk about preparation overall, but maybe at the end, tie this to it. I don't know if you've noticed this. Number one thing I see is someone's done a pretty good job, and they don't know how to finish, and they keep talking, and they keep talking, and they talk themselves out of the great whisper because they didn't really get to the end of their preparation and how they were going to finish. Or they think, "I have to finish on a bang." You know, and a lot of my comedian friends even say, "Hey man, the last joke doesn't have to be the funniest, it just has to be the last joke." Yeah. So, I'm just curious as to your message about preparation and if you have any agreeance with me, especially about the end.
Yeah, I do. Uh, first of all, you want to always have integrity with your audience by being prepared. I, I, I, I, I think what an injustice to people who came and sometimes spent money and gave time, and you walk out there half-cocked and not ready to deliver. What I mean, that's just, there's no, there's no reason for that. So, we're all assuming in this communication talk that you're going in at least at your very best preparation possible, okay? Whatever that is, you're right on the front end because all is well that begins well, and so we want to get us started. So, what's the story I want to say? We all got that, but there's a difference between good coaches and great coaches, and there's a good difference between good speakers and and and great speakers. And here it is: good coaches have a pre-game plan. You know, they, when they get ready for the game, they've got, they've laid it out. We've, here's the first eight offensive plays, these are the five first, you know, they, they have it all played out. Good coaches have a pre-game plan, but great coaches make halftime adjustments. It's, it's the great coaches come out different the second half with their team because what they've watched the team, they've watched their team, they've watched that, they, oh my gosh, I, I didn't, I didn't see that coming. I didn't know they were going to be using that type of an offense as much. So at halftime, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're doing a lot of adjusting, a lot of adjusting. They haven't, but let me tell you, you can't adjust what you don't know. Um, so the big mess is we make adjustments, but we don't know where to go. We just know that it wasn't working. And so when it, when something doesn't work, what does a person do? They talk more. They, they think, "Well, if I keep talking, maybe I'll talk myself into something or talk myself out of something or talk them into something." And so nervousness is, "Well, I just keep talking." And you're like, I said, Edward said, "Come on, close it, close it." You know, you're losing your audience down that process.
So, the halftime adjustments in communication, you're out there. I mean, I've got my lessons, my teaching, I've got it all out there, but I'm also aware that while I speak, the audience is going to all of a sudden latch onto a part of something and maybe I thought, "Oh, I didn't have a clue that's going to connect with him so well." Now, my ability to stay there, but you can't stay there if you don't have experience and material. So you have to have, my father, you know, the word Maxwell is a Scottish word, and it really comes from having a filling the well up to the max, it's a full well. And my father also was a, you know, speaker, communicator, and, you know, was working full-time at 95, passed away at 98. But the process was, and he said, "John, always have your well full." He said, "Always have more to deliver than you can deliver because you don't know what's going to always work the best." But what you find at work, if you've over to, now bring some more of that stuff, bring that excess in there, and just fill that pipeline and stay there as long as you possibly can. And I think that's, I think that's a big mess. Now, that only comes by experience. Yeah, you, you, this is not something that you do the first time. You, you speak, the first time you speak, you're just wanting to finish, you know what I'm saying, and be done and go home. And but, but, but through experience, as far as the ending is concerned, in the book, I think one of the, one of my favorite parts about the book was what I call the four F's of awareness. When you look, when you look at the audience, there are four words that they start with an F that you have to constantly be aware while you're teaching. And the first one is, how does my audience feel? I, I wonder, how, how do they feel? How do they feel? Do they feel like they're happy and excited? And do they, do they have, are they already leaning in, you know, are they laid back? Are they, you know, are, are they a bunch of people saying, "I'm not really sure why I'm here?" But how they feel, I want to find out how you feel. Then I go to that second F. If I can find out how you feel, Ed, and I can say, you know what, I have felt the same way. Oh my gosh, he knows what I'm thinking, he knows what I'm feeling, he, he understands me, he understands me. So, what are they, how's the audience feel? What are they feeling? Have I felt the same way? And then that fourth, third F is, and let me tell you what I found that worked for me. This worked for me. I'm not saying it worked for you, but it did work for me. So let me at least share with you. And so that now you tell them kind of what you've learned. And then you use the fourth F as, and I think that I can help you find the answer to. And, and the moment that you get those four F's and you're working this forward with your teacher, you follow me? It works. It just works. Yes. By the way, I do that when I'm in a disagree with somebody. I'll say, "Listen, I know how you feel. I felt the same way myself. But what I found was..." What I don't add, but what I have not added was before Jeff. And I've never heard that in my life before, which is, "I think I'll help you find the answer." It gives them hope. You, you are the best in the world. I want to ask you, I'm gonna take you off script about off the book for a second. Like, now it's me and you. Yeah. Wait, go to 16 lawsofcommunication.com and you will get the master class on becoming a great communicator from the master. By the way, in his prime, he's better than he's ever been. And I've watched John speak now for as a student many, many years ago, um, as somebody who's spoken on the same stage as him, and then recently even in the audience watching him again, he's just incredible. Um, but just like a life thing, I'm just curious. You get to this stage of your life, I feel like there's like a, and I, I didn't even, I was going to ask you this today, but I just feel like I watch you and you're so joyful and happy. I feel like there's a happiness deficiency in the world. So this has nothing to do with the book, maybe it does, maybe people don't communicate well enough with one another, and that's part of the deal. What have you found over 76 years that brings you the most happiness? In other words, in a life well lived, which you're still in the prime of, um, you're probably going to live far past where your dad lived, means you live into the hundreds. But in a really well-lived life, like what's brought you the most happiness? If you could share that with you, I've never asked you that on the show before, and you're such a happy, joyful person. Has it been your work? Your faith? Your fam? What? Something specific? What would you say to that?
Well, first of all, there is not a simplistic answer. It is all those things, par, being part of the context you're with me. But, but to give you the answer that, that you're wanting, something that's a little definitive, the answer is what keeps me in the game and what brings me so much joy is the people that I add value to and I help. I, I mean, every day I, how I think, how fortunate I am every day. Books I write, things I teach, help people. And so when people say, "Well, how do you stay motivated? I mean, aren't you tired? Don't you get tired?" Of course, we're human, we all get tired. But, but what keeps you in the game? I mean, I don't need to be in the game. I mean, I, I don't, I, I don't, I mean, I'm blessed, okay? I don't, I don't need to be in the game. You don't need to be in the game. You're, you have money. I have money. And so I, I'm not in it, but I'm in it because I'm making a positive difference in people's lives. And I can't think of, if, what, if there's something better than that, somebody's going to tell me so I can go that way too. But, but, you know, I mean, I live on two, I have two wonderful homes, I live on golf courses. But there has to be something better and bigger than what is my tee time today. I mean, there just has to be. Do I enjoy? I love to play golf. I want to play some golf with you. Oh, I love to play more. There has to be something. You have to live beyond yourself, Ed. I, you know, when we talked about get over myself, I, success is about me. Significance is about others. And I live in the, I live in the significant world. I, I've already had a success. You have all the, we have, we don't, I don't mean this on Kylie, I've got all I need. But now I've got so much to give. And I think, and one other thing is, I'm constantly, I'm still growing. I'm still curious. I'm still asking questions. I'm still taking notes. I'm still learning. I'm sitting at the feet of people like you, and, and I'm getting better. And I think that is huge. My father, when he was 92, we were having lunch one day, and he said, "John, he said, I just want you to know, I think my best days are still ahead of me." And he's 92. Well, how could he say that? He's still growing. He's still learning. So I think, I think growth is happiness. I think when people are growing, they're very. And I think then, I think significance, living for others, is fulfilling. So I think when I put the personal growth of, "I'm a student and I'm teachable and I'm still learning," with the fact that I'm still helping and adding value to people, and you put those two together, and by the way, if you're not growing, you can't keep adding value to people. This is the big miss. I mean, you can't write 90 books or 88 books or whatever it is, I have no, if you're not still learning and growing. I mean, you get one book, one song, you know, remember Debbie Boone? And she, what you light up my life. I'm telling my age, you probably don't even remember that. I know Debbie Boone is, I'm pretty sure my age. Yeah, yeah. Well, Debbie Boone had one hit, and it was like a hit for like, number one for six months. It was just, it rained, it was huge. But it was the only one she ever had. Well, after you've heard Debbie sing that 50 times, you want to say, "Debbie, is there another song?" And the answer is no, there's not another song. You know, and I love the song, love you, Debbie. Yeah, but, but I got this, I got that song down, you know. Is there another? If you're not growing, you only have one song. You only have one talk. You only have one book. But how do I keep adding value to people? I keep learning and growing myself. And basically, what I do is what I learn, I just pass on to people as quickly as I can. That is fulfilling, man.
That's such an awesome answer. And by the way, everybody, if you're feeling a lack of happiness, check those two areas. Am I growing still? And am I adding value to other people? Am I contributing? And if those, one of those are deficient, that might, that's probably the answer. I, um, I don't think I've had a show fly by in an hour this quickly. It's just because I love my time with you so much. And especially on this topic, um, you've been such an important influence in my life, John. And, and I'll give you the greatest compliment I can give somebody. I often when I make decisions, even though, you know, I don't call you for these decisions, I actually ask myself often, I used to say, "What would my dad do?" Yeah. And there's a list of about three or four people in my life. I just think, "How would John respond? What would John do?" And I do that with you. And I think that's probably the highest compliment and truest compliment I could pay you. That that's the level of admiration I have for you. I mean, what I said earlier, I, I aspire to be more like you. You're, you're a hero to me. So thank you for today.
Oh, thank you. When I left home today, I told Margaret that I was going to be with you, and I said, "It's a highlight." And it hasn't even happened yet. Can I tell you something? Yeah. You're the best. Thank you, brother. You're the best. If there's somebody that does a podcast and can host and ask questions better than you, you're gonna have to tell me who they are because I want to get on their show too. You're the best. I love you. Greatly respect you. Love doing stuff with you. So let's, let's go help people together. And let's go play golf together as soon as possible, okay?
I would love that, brother. We did that today. 16lawsofcommunication.com, the 16 Undeniable Laws of Communication by the GOAT. Share today's episode, everybody, with anybody that you care about, anybody who wants to be a better communicator, or anybody who wants a better life. And today's show will deliver that for them. God bless you all. Max out.
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