Raptors Draft Options: MOREZ JOHNSON, ALLEN GRAVES, BILLY RICHMOND III

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the pull-up trade podcast. We are in the D, the draft season, everyone. We're talking about players, we're talking about prospects, we're talking about how they might potentially fit with the Toronto Raptors, who are obviously looking to strengthen their team through the draft. This episode is a presentation of Tony Bet online sports book and casino. I'm Samson Folk. In the middle for viewers, Travon Heath, the tray that pulls up. And on the right or the left, I don't know how this orients itself, is Chuck of Chucking Darts. Chuck, you're the esteemed guest. You're the draft analyst of this episode. Trey and I just tagging along. How are you doing?

Oh, I'm doing great, Samson. You've been nice enough to come on my show in years past. I'm happy to pay that favor back. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited for the Raptors and their lovely, if passionate, fan base. This is an exciting time to be a Raptors fan and an exciting draft to have a pick. So, let's get into it.

Let's get into it. Okay, so for anybody who wants to know, today we're talking about Alan Graves, Morz Johnson, and Billy Richmond III. A lot of people, a lot of people are saying Billy Richmond.

This is coming out of left field, but that's what you get when you talk to somebody who's in the know. Before we talk the prospects, Chuck, I remember seeing at some point or another, somebody uh collected all of the big boards and then your name was at the top as you have the most wins added or something on your big board correctly placed. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Uh, I think I do. It's a uh young man by the name, I believe, of Max Savin, who runs a site called Tawnie Park Metrics. And uh, what that was was, I think it was not last year's draft, 'cause I think like the returns are not in. It was 2024, and whatever metric they used uh had me as having a really good overall first round. Like, they break it up into like who had the best top 10, the best lotto, that sort of thing. But when you looked at the first round as a whole, I think my name was near the top. Which is good, because the, that's the area of the draft the Raptors are picking, is sort of like mid-late first. So hopefully my reputation doesn't precede me too much and I can live up to it.

So you're the king of drafting. I guess that's the, that's what, that's what we'll say now. That's the pitch.

Who, okay. So of these guys, these names, by the way, uh, make sure to like the video, comment, subscribe, all that good stuff. It helps out the channel and everything. Uh, okay. We have MZ Johnson, we have Alen Graves, we have Billy Richmond. I want to leave Billy Richmond for the end because I know people are probably really jonesed for the other two. I think we should start with Merez Johnson. So, I'll read out all the preliminary stuff and then we'll throw it to you, Chuck, for a quick pitch on if the Raptors should draft him and why. So, 6'9" uh, no shoes from MZ Johnson, 250 lbs, 7'4" wingspan, 8'11" standing reach. Pretty good. It's, it's decent size, especially since the Raptors just drafted a power forward or a center who's a little bit smaller than that. 13.1 points per game, 7.3 rebounds, 1.2 assists, two stocks, 66% from the two-point line inside of it, 35.34% from three, not really a lot of volume, 78% from the free throw line. Those are the preliminary stuff. Chuck, why should the Raptors go after MZ Johnson if he is available?

The Raptors should go after MZ Johnson because he has no business falling to the 19th pick in my uh estimation. This is a gentleman who played for the three-headed monster front court for the historically dominant national champion Michigan Wolverines. And unlike uh Morz Johnson, or pardon me, unlike Yakel Lendorg and Adama, he is in his teenage years and is the most physically gifted athlete of the three. You know, the only real question is where his guard skills are going to metriculate from, but given the talent around him, you can understand that they might be a bit late to arrive. In the meantime, he is a playoff-ready, like junkyard dog with shooting touch. And to be 250 pounds with his athletic testing, there is all-defense interest in him, or I should say potential in him. And at the 19th pick, if you can get a potential all-defense piece who can, you know, play finish right away and who's built for war, you take that piece.

Okay. So, the, I'll say a couple things that I noticed right away. Obviously, Trey and I playing catch-up on some of this. We haven't been tapping into the draft the way that you and others have, Chuck, but uh, two-foot stomp your feet in the ground and blast off repeatedly. Perez has a lot of pop in a way that I think he gets up in a way that Scotty Barnes can't load quite as quickly. So, I would say he's maybe would be the most talented vertical leaper on the Raptors from jump. As you mentioned, he's obviously a great athlete. There's a couple really great. We, we're Blue Jays fans here. There's a couple really great Dan Schulman calls on MZ dunks, like really popping off. John, oh man. And uh, yeah, two-foot punch, unbelievable. And drop steps and spins to the left, like feels the, feels where the guy's guarding him, spinning off, rolling off. And uh, the other thing that really, he obviously has the two-foot gather defensively as well, these big strong contests as a backline sweeper, but I thought he had a really unique ability to gather and halt himself. And that's a lot of guys who go for the big sweeping backline blocks, I think they get caught up always chasing it, but he had a really good ability, I thought, to like hang in and then stay down, which I thought is pretty unique for such a young player who is so athletically gifted. Trey, Morz, I suspect he is your favorite of the three we'll be talking about.

I think since we've started covering the draft so far, I think this is the most Raptor-like prospect and the one I, I think they will like a ton.

Um, with, with MZ, the first things I, I wrote down was, um, super physical, crazy lateral athlete. You see his physicality really show up at the rim. He's 70, I believe, 72% at the rim at his size.

I think his strength really shows, especially on defense. He holds himself against other bigs. Um, and you see the scheme where the Raptors love to use their bigs out on the perimeter, utilize their, their mobility and allow their bigs to hedge and recover a ton. He fits that to a tee. His motor runs super hot. He can be a very good play finisher, and I think he'll be able to hold up on the glass. I think, like with his, like length, I think he could play the five and I think he could be an option to be the, the guy that replaces Yakob long-term and kind of a symbol like what Michigan had with him, CMBB, and and Johnson that could have some super funky lineups. I think, man, when I think about him playing the five, I just think that the Raptors would have so many unique lineups that could win in, in fits and starts. But I do wonder about, you know, as ND says, my only concern is MZ, CNB, and Scotty feels like diminishing returns. Chuck, I want to swing it back to you. Best player available always seems like the best wisdom to me because if you get a guy who's really good, it's much easier to pivot with good players than it is to try and start filling holes. If you don't have a guy and you're like, for example, Grady not shooting the ball that well, damn. Sometimes it doesn't shake out that way if he was selected, you know, with the expectation of fitting. Do you have any worries about, I guess, Merez on this Raptors roster?

Uh, so I tend to agree with you. The best player available is certainly like a consistently good approach.

The king of the draft agrees with me. I'm very glad.

Yeah. Well, hey, but I think that fit matters if it is going to potentially affect a more important player on your team. And Morz, as gifted as he is, does not profile to be the most important player on any NBA team. So really, it becomes about his fit with Scotty and, in my opinion, CMBB, because I was very, very high on CMBB last year and I think you all rightfully are as well. So,

Wait, how, how high were you, by the way?

Fourth.

That's, I was, I think I had him fifth. Yeah, we were pretty close.

So, well, you're the prince of the draft. Of course, you are. So, I would say that, uh, the, like, obviously adding yet another, um, just physically gifted, defensively versatile forward with, you know, shooting questions. Yes, it is possible that the returns diminish there. I think in Morz's case, though, it's, it's sort of like a beggars and choosers situation at 19. Now, this is a deep draft. I know you all have talked about like Bennett Stirts before, and there's a chance he's available there. There's a chance Christian Anderson's available. Like, there, there might be someone with more shooting talent who you go, "Oh, well, the Raptors need shooting. Let's go get that person." But the thing is, you know, Malik Monk is also available. You know, Walter Clayton Jr. got traded last year at the deadline. The Grizz, the Grizzlies and Bulls between them have like eight rotation guards who can shoot the ball if you ever wanted to go get one of those guys who's in their prime.

To me, if you can acquire someone who either profiles as a future all-star, or is a future all-defense player, then it's a very easy calculation. And I'm not saying that Mores is a guaranteed all-defense player, but I think he, he has one of like the best chances in the draft to eventually get there. And that is like really worth betting on, really regardless of the fit. Now, I, you mentioned his 34% three-point shot and his 78% shot from the line, which again, for his athletic priors is extremely notable. It is not common for, like, he is, in terms of just power and explosion and testing, probably the, maybe behind Debbansza, like the best athlete in the draft, just, you know, big, strong, fast. And to have shooting touch like that, I've said on my show that I thought that his shooting touch is a real swing skill in the draft. This was before the combine and everything that, uh, GMs really need to look into. If you believe that he can really stretch, like, you'll never have to worry about his effort, you'll never have to worry about his competitiveness. He's a, he's already a Raptor in that sense. And, uh, if he can stretch, then he can unlock a lot of good lineups because I can promise you, if the Raptors were to pass on him, they won't enjoy playing him. And that's really another little back-of-pocket approach you can take to the draft. If you're not gonna like playing someone and you have the chance to take them, it's a pretty good idea to take them.

Oh, I wish you were in the room, brother. I'm, we need to get you in that room, Bobby. Dan, put it out there. The thing you mentioned, the athleticism, big, strong, fast. There's a couple possessions where he starts a move and has to hang a pivot and still maintains his balance and like waits for the defense to shift out of his way. Kind of these are like around the rim more so guard skills than big skills usually.

Pretty impressive movement stuff. I'm getting to the point where I'm going to lose my expertise on what I've seen. So, I really want to get more of what you think and get into the details on this, Chuck. But before we do, Trey, is there anything else that stood out to you about Merez before we go back to Chuck for, I think, the nuts and bolts of this thing?

I think a lot of it just like his, similar to like CB, where like his play strength really stood out. Um, last year. Uh, Morz, like his post defense and being able to hang on several different lineups like gives you a pretty good gauge of like how he would be in a playoff series and how ferocious he is on the glass is like playoff winning stuff. So I think it's just a guy that the Raptors, I would assume are prioritized if he's at 19, like regardless of of fit. They're not at a point where they're good enough yet where fit really matters.

Yeah. And to that point, like if you're worried about CMBB, Scotty, then just be like, well, you need more than two front court players on a team and CMB jumped Yakob for the playoffs. So just like, you got, you got to draft.

Has Scotty ever had a lob threat to work with?

Koko for like 15 games maybe?

Koko for 15 games. There was a space in time where Precious Achua was like doing corner cutting off of short rolling actions where with when Scotty was playing with Fred, but in terms of like real deal a target man, considering Scotty's capacity to make plays to a bunch of different spots, MZ would be like, he would be it. He would be a big.

I mean, he's, he's 250 pounds with a 39-inch vert at 19 years old. So he's the real deal in that department. Okay, so we're talking about all this stuff. Where, where is he on your big board? Have you put that together yet? Because I, I have a couple follow-ups.

Uh, it's sketched, you know. I, the draft work is never over. It's just abandoned, you know, by dent of the actual date. I would say that I've had him in my lottery for a while. Um, I feel like I was actually on the earlier side of him because I knew that it wasn't a sure thing that he was going to stay in the draft. But, you know, I know what I saw in Michigan. You know, anytime there's a team that dominant, and they were really dominant, like blowing pretty good teams out regularly. Um, there's a lot of NBA talent at work, and they were built around Yakel, and they were built around Adama, and Morz. Like, they were, what made them so unique is their three best players were all above 6'8", which you really don't see in college. And so his, um, because he, in my opinion, was the most physically gifted. The other two have more ball skills, more sort of offensive guard skills, but you could see how regularly he would come way, way out on the perimeter and embrace those matchups and handle them. It's one thing to be a, a good switchable kind of college dog on the perimeter, and like Jamal Shed is that, and I love Jamal Shed. He actually is from near where I live, so shout out to Jamal. But it's another to have the physical characteristics and the, uh, the conditioning to carry your weight where the other, like, the opposing ball handler is really, you can see like the panic. Last year, I think Carter Bryant was sort of the version of this guy, but Carter played in shorter bursts, whereas Michigan really relied on Morz. But you see how another sort of like offensively raw player in Carter is still, he played 15 minutes last night in the greatest game ever played. So you can imagine that Morz's space will be made for him. You know, will he have to fit in? Yes. But someone will get up from the table.

Yeah. I think it would also, I, I think an interesting thing about drafting a guy like Merez is the fact that you mentioned if you want shooting, just go get X or Y from wherever. And this, this reminds me of like if the Raptors build a team of Merez and he translates and you start getting like all-defense, whether he plays enough minutes to actually get it or you get it for 20 minutes or something, and you have CMBB and you have Scotty and you have all these these guys who help incubate players on defense, you probably can just go take a swing on a small guard if you want to, just like create uber offense because small guards are so gettable around the NBA, and it's just because teams realize like, we won't be able to build a team in such a way that this works, and then a team gets to take a swing on a small guard without paying that much, and there's, there's room for all this stuff to happen. But the reason why I want to ask about how high you had him was because we have to answer some of the limitations. Why is he being talked about on a Raptors podcast where they have the 19th pick? Why isn't he a surefire top of the draft guy?

Uh, because he's not a surefire dribble, pass, shoot. And dribble, pass, shoot is obviously what most teams look for at all areas of the draft, really. And he, you know, Yakel was, is, was an extremely blessed, uh, you know, jumbo forward with guard skills. Mara is an extremely blessed center with a lot of, you know, passing touch and, you know, hub vision and creativity. And Morz is, he's like the young guy. You, you got to, if you view college basketball, modern college basketball, where the best players are now expected to be 21, 22, 23 years old, all of a sudden being a prodigiously talented teenager means that you're probably going to accept a back seat. And because Morris is such a good athlete, the way it frequently happens with those jumbo guys, unless the ball was put in their hands at a young age, those guard skills are late to arrive. So like, no, he has not displayed a ton of, like, creativity as a passer. There's still holes in his game there. And, uh, you know, the shooting, like you said, like, I think it's encouraging for how athletic he is, but there also isn't much evidence of a handle yet because he's, you know, he's been a play finisher and he's been asked to be a play finisher. But what I'll say is that, uh, those kinds, like the ath, the forwards that are in his athletic class, guys like, uh, Anobi, you know, or Tari Eason, you know, you guys have an experience with Anobi obviously, like, it, it was a year-over-year process with him building that part of his game out, and he's still even now, the wonderful player he is now, is still not mo the most intuitive playmaker. I remember Samson, you came on my podcast once and talked about workout ball and how OG would would fall into that habit from time to time. It's like, they don't need to be the most polished set of guard skills on your team, and they really shouldn't be. It's just a matter of whether or not they can like, sort of do their job well enough to win their minutes. And I firmly believe that Morz can. But that, that is the question is like, subpar passer, subpar dribbler, question mark as a shooter. Does this guy ever play more than 15 minutes a night? I mean, that, that would be sort of the floor question for Morz.

How do you, uh, when you talk about like all-defense and you mentioned there's he has some, I guess mates in terms of, uh, forwardiness in guys like OG and Tari?

Those guys are wing, big-time wing defenders. Tari maybe a little less than OG, but wing guys for sure. Morz obviously profiles.

It's tough because Lindberg does stuff, Mara does his big thing, and MZ is I guess a few different jobs, but a lot of backline sweeping, a lot of playing off of his big man. How do you, what is his role as a defender at the NBA level, do you think?

Yeah, this is what I've struggled with a bit because on the one hand, you mentioned, uh, his gather and his ability to pivot and stop himself as sort of like, that looks like sort of a guard skill. I think those skills are obviously chained if you can, if you can really get off the ground quickly off two feet. It's, you, you actually have more time to stop yourself and change direction than if you have to dedicate more energy to it. But he is not, you know, he's not OG in terms of his movement out to the perimeter and back. And so in order for him to reach this level, this all-defense level, then he's going, in my opinion, he's going to have to either do it in an Isaiah Stewart kind of way where he becomes this sort of like rim specialist as a sixth man, but the impact is so extreme, that, you know, he starts getting votes that way as sort of like an all-defense specialist, or his role goal is going to have to expand. As in the Raptors' case, they want to save Scotty a little bit wear and tear in the regular season, he starts getting assignments further and further away from the hoop, which he showed he could do in college. And that's where you kind of look at his growth curve being as young as he is and try to project, project that out. I mean, he just, he carries his weight very, very, very well. And I'm not a biomechanics expert, I'll, you know, with that caveat, but I might be optimistic on him because I really want to see what kind of a player this turns into because like Isaiah Stewart, for example, was not as athletically gifted as Morz. He was long, but he was a center, like a clear center. And and Tari Eason, as good as he was at LSU, uh, was like, he was a wing. He was just, you know, 220, 225 pounds. Morz is really like a diff. He's like Aaron Gordon plus 30 pounds. And I just don't know that it's so athletic that I think that how Michigan used him may kind of be scratching the surface of what he can do defensively in the NBA.

Interesting. Jack Taylor says, "How many fours are we going to have that would look great next to an anchor?" Well, if we can make a shout out to former draft analyst, now NBA uh decision maker slash just, well, it works in the NBA. Henry Ward, my dear friend Hank, Democratic Room Protection. It is a rising tide lifting all boats. We also have a question from the the listeners. Two people wanting to know where you have the trio of the Michigan boys ranked, like who's number one, who's number two, who's number three?

Yeah. Um, it's fluid. I, Morz is third, I will say, uh, because the, the offensive skills are just much more present in the other two. So, it be, I think it's going to be harder for a team to bench Yakel or harder for a team to bench Mara. But I think I said, I've had Mores in my lottery. I have Yaxel and Mara both in my top 10. So, and I probably have Yaxel and Mara as high or higher than anyone. I probably have Morz as his higher, higher than anyone. Very in on that Michigan team, but, uh, yeah, if that answer, I can get more specific, but that's, that's where I've got him.

That's, that's good enough for me. I guess Trey, at first glance, do you have a sense of how you'd rank those? So, we loved Yaxel last year. We were like praying to God that he stayed in the.

I had him in the, in like the late lotto last year before he returned.

Yeah.

Yeah. That was, we also thought he and we were like, man, could you imagine getting this [ __ ] guy late? Um, but, uh, what do you, what's your trio like, Trey?

Yeah, considering there's like a, a Cyclops in in San Antonio, I probably would have, I probably would have Mara first just considering some of the, some of the guard skills and like passing feel that he has, and then Yakel, I would probably have second given the age, and then, yeah, Morz third for sure. I think I probably have Yaxel first and then MZ and then.

Oh, baby.

But I, the big guys, I'm, it's so in or so out for me. I, I even have like a, a theory on drafting that I'm like, unless I'm seeing Anthony Davis in front of me, I don't want to draft a seven-foot guy. I don't know why.

Really? So you're like, you were not a Klingan guy, for example?

Uh, what, what, what did Klingan get drafted? He was.

He got drafted seventh to Portland.

I don't mind, I don't mind seven, but, uh, he was mocked at like two a bunch, I guess, right? Wasn't he?

I mean, thinner draft, but yes, he was. He was, he was mocked very high, but it's a similar, you know, there, there's a case that Mara is the better prospect than Klingan. Not the better defensive prospect as a defensive anchor, but.

His touch around the rim is much better. Much better. And so, and he's like just as big as Klingan is. And so if you imagine, you know, usually that kind of a tradeoff is worth it if you can find an area of the floor that you can score pretty dominantly from. And especially since Mara can chain it to some of his other offensive skills.

You know, there's, I think there's a real case for him to go like top five. I might even be modest when I say top five, but I think that there's a chance that he is that good.

Interesting. And also, as a, for people listening, Chuck knows like significantly more about this draft and knew more about 20, the only draft that Trey and I really were able since we had, you know, the Raptors were out of things really early, um, was 2025, but to the, you know, the, the chat is asking Edy or Klingan, and you asked me where I had Klingan. We didn't do the very top of the draft because the Raptors were 19th with Jacobe. So, we didn't really consider Klingan, and I, but he, he didn't wow me, and I probably wouldn't have considered him like a top five guy, but also I didn't consider that. Um, Edy, I really liked, um, when I thought he was like a back end of the first round guy. I was like, "Yeah, the Raptors, if they can get him at 19, go nuts." But then obviously he went much higher, and it looks good if he's healthy. But anyway, enough about my, um, casual, what's, what's the term? Heuristic on on draft stuff. That's, that's.

I was going to say, don't, don't, you know, fall prey to the tyranny of the casual ball knower distinction.

No, no, no. Uh, no, not casual in that sense, but that it's a casual heuristic that.

I know. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, okay. So Merez, is there anything else that we should know about him before we move on to Alan Graves?

Uh, just, I mentioned it earlier, but like, there are, there's hustle guys and competitive guys, like guys who hate losing and like, and then there's a standard deviation, and then there's Morz. I mean, he really, I, I mentioned Isaiah Stewart. That comp has been made with Morz plenty, but like I said, MZ is just a more athletically gifted version. I mean, he, he, I can't imagine him, uh, washing out of the NBA or not being an impactful NBA player because athletes that good who know what they're doing, I mean, yes, he's not a point forward, but if he were, I, I'd mock him second. So, like, athletes that good just stay in the NBA for a long time. And it, the precise type of defender that he is might shift over the course of his career, but like, it's what is worth investing in because of like, the scarcity of his athletic talent.

The, the caveat of athletes that good who know what they're doing. Even I'll add that, I still am in a love affair with Precious Sichua, who is an unreal athlete. Balance, explosion, power, all of it. He's unbelievable. Uh, and he doesn't know what he's doing half the time, but he can still just go out there. And I wonder when he's 28 years old, is he in a playoff rotation busting ass, you know, like, it, maybe he figures it out. And if Merez is, uh, processing the floor in a more impressive fashion than I, there's probably a lot of room for him to find, especially if, if the playoffs are going to keep being this way because the Raptors and the Cavs, it's not even like the prime of the prime. It's one of the lowest of the low series in terms of watchability or like what people think is watchable. They guys putting hands on people, like the, the NBA playoffs is, it's for, you know, it's more physical than I can remember.

And so the physical boys, the big old bastards, they're bringing the ruckus when it comes to the playoffs. And MZ, I wonder, another guy who's also physical but not as bouncy, I would say, for certain. Alan Graves.

12 points per game, three steals, 6.5 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 56% inside the arc, 41% from downtown, 75% from three. And his measurements, 6'7.75 barefoot, 225.6 pounds, which is crazy, by the way, because he looks like a bigger boy than Merez, but Merez has 25 pounds on him. Uh, 7-foot wingspan, 8-foot 10.25 standing reach. Thank you, Draft Express. Chuck, if this, this quick pitch, why should the Raptors grab Allen Graves?

Oh, for Allen Graves, the, uh, the spreadsheet club has checked into the chat. Allen Graves statistically is an almost unprecedented role player prospect. He never turns the ball over. He accumulates deflections and offensive rebounds at almost historical rates, especially for someone as young as he was. Uh, and the game is moving towards maximizing possessions, right? That's what's so in fashion in the NBA right now. Allen Graves, again, among role players, does that at a higher level than anyone in this draft. But I mean, who am I to say? What is the, what's the track record of a relatively pudgy wing from Santa Clara outperforming his draft slot in the last several years? So, I think the Toronto Raptors, if they were at 19, get a guaranteed NBA player who thinks the game at an extraordinarily high level and has size to boot, and see where it takes you.

So, the thing that really stood out to me, so I think just considering the athleticism, and this is where I think Morz is probably the most impressive of the three guys we're talking about today. Um, Weisso 111 says, "I really don't like his film. Doesn't meet the eye test for me." When I was watching Alan Graves, I was like, "This guy understands basketball. He, he, he plays ball." I loved his film, actually. I thought the way he interprets the floor. The most impressive thing he did outside of like stats was in two-on-one situations defensively, negotiating space and always, always making sure that he has a good read on being able to defend pass or shot. His hands are very accurate. He, he tracks the ball and gets to it and disrupts incredibly well in a more precise and less aggressive way than CMB. CMBB was like mugging guys, whereas Alen Graves is more so like, you know, he's the seeing hand to get there and poke it. He impressed me a lot. His jumper looked like Al Horford's, which made me think like, oh, this is a professional. And I, maybe this is just aesthetic bias, but despite not liking him more than Merez, I watched him and I thought like, this guy rocks. I don't know how much is Santa Clara. I don't know about doing it at in the league. I don't really know. But when I watched them play, I thought this guy rocks. Trey, you disagreed with me. We talked about this prior.

Oh, spreadsheet FC, please don't kill me. I, when I, when I watch some of like Graves's tape, I think the, the biggest thing that that stands out obviously is like how he is instinctually. Kind of similar to Noah Penda who we covered last year, where off-ball instinctually he's able to cover ground and space very well and sort of be in two places at once. But when I think of where the NBA is going, and the NBA values athletes and playing on a smaller floor, Santa Clara from what I've seen, tons of hedge and recover, and they've kind of allowed him to be like this chaos agent throughout their defense. I, I think in the NBA, James Harden diagnoses that he isn't able to get there quick enough, and Jared Allen dunks the ball, for example. I think some of his athletic issues pop out more in a, in a larger floor. At the rim, he, he shot 55%. You see some of those, those athletic issues at the rim as well. And offensively, although he hit well from three, it wasn't at a high volume, and the passing is more of in a connective way where it's, he's passing to the one more pass or passing to the open man. He isn't necessarily manipulating or creating any crazy looks for for people around around him. So, I think for the Raptors, I, while I think he has a good chance of being a rotational player, I'm unsure of the, the upside swing for it, and I would value probably more players that we've covered since, uh, since we've started.

Okay. So, I'm going to, or you go ahead, Chuck. You got something. Oh, I, I would just say I'm between the two of you, but, but, you know, watching Allen's tape is both like invigorating and heartbreaking because you see the processing and you're like, "This guy, for like anyone who, uh, has pursued a hobby or career in talking about basketball rather than in playing it, you're like, "Oh, it's just like how I would do it if I could be on the same court. I would diagnose everything and I, all my hands would be in the right place." And then you see like when the pace, to me, the Santa Clara thing playing in his conference, I don't really think is that big a deal because he clearly is an NBA-sized person. But even in any kind of game when it speeds up and it starts getting up and down, his effort is there. He is like a dog in terms of effort, but he just trails behind the play just 'cause he doesn't have the juice. Like, he can recover in half-court settings when the game is like slower. And I think watching the playoffs now, the game is so slow. You're like, "Oh my gosh, could he like close some of these playoff games just with how smart he is?" But the reality is that the NBA is going to continue to get faster and faster, you know, at least for most initiators, that's where it's going to go to get your offense as good as possible and then maximize the possessions that your offense is on the floor. That tends to pick up the pace. And that's where I worry about him, just that like he, he's just going to fall behind what starting caliber, um, wing athleticism is. And so I'm of two minds about it 'cause like the look, his stats are not by accident. He does not sell out his team to go for deflections or offensive rebounds. He like constantly, uh, is physical in good ways, you know, off the ball defensively. Uh, tagging rollers, very good. Uh, boxing out, obviously, he knows he's not the best jumper in the world, so he positions himself very shrewdly for rebounds offensively and defensively. Like, and I, I don't worry as much about the lack of creativity in his passing because Santa Clara was a pretty, you know, traditional, uncreative offensive team in my opinion, and it's not like he red-shirted last year and then they brought him off the bench this year, so they're not going to give, you know, this 6'8" kid really a lot of point initiation duties, even though I think they probably should have, just to see what they had. But it's, it's a question of when the game actually speeds up. Usually you hear when the game slows down. When the game speeds up, where is Alan Graves going to be? That's, that's my real question with him.

Uh, Raptors Relief says, "Thank God for Trey pushing back on the he just knows where to stand crowd." So we had a, we had a, a David Rody comp in chat. We have a Kenny Lofton Jr. comp in chat. And I think we had a George Niang comp in chat, which Trey and George Niang have a very checkered past, those two. I won't say what. But the thing that I think is most interesting, and this is where being like a real deal draft analyst and adjusting for competition is a real talent that I don't have. Like, I'm watching him play at Santa Clara, I'm like, this guy rocks on this court. I don't know how to exactly say how it translates to the NBA, but I think less of Rody, or was Rody, was Colorado State, if I remember correctly. Yeah, I think less of Rody, who also I think I liked when we were talking about second round options way back when during that draft, but I think less of Rody or Niang or Kenny Lofton. And I'm reminded a lot more of like, through the bully driving and shots, uh, Haws. And that's where Haws had a lot of years in college, was so comfortable with physicality. The thing that actually was most interesting to me about Graves, besides how he managed two-on-ones defensively, was bully driving. I thought he was a very controlled bully driver. Bully drivers, it's a very good skill to have in the NBA, especially if you can start building out your playmaking from it, and especially if you're comfortable with physicality. He has to hit threes to draw those closeouts. He has to obviously do it against guys who are of a little bit bigger size, but those are the two most intriguing skills I think of when I think of Alan Graves is, uh, defensively, I, I guess being a bit of a dumbass and knowing where to stand, and then also offensively, kind of bullying.

Weisso says, "Hawks has significantly better touch around the rim." No. What do you think of that, uh, touch? Uh, I guess Haws versus, um, uh, Graves, Chuck?

Um, yeah, I mean, I get, I, I get that that Haws displayed better touch. Haws was also though in college, like you said, for a very long time, and, was eventually like the guy in college for multiple years running at UCLA, played in a Final Four and everything like that. Graves, like I said, he was red-shirted last year. He threw up this, you know, you can call it spreadsheet season, that's fine. I, it doesn't offend me. But he did that in his only year in college ball. I mean, that is, it's when you think about sort of outlier stuff to bet on. There hasn't really been the player yet, in my opinion, who sees the game as well as Graves sees the game because I mean, yes, he knows where to stand, but he also knows where to cut. He knows where to initiate contact. He knows where the ball's supposed to go. You know, he will direct his guards when he's off the ball about where to swing the ball to set up an action. Like, he really sees the game at a high level. And I haven't seen yet the a guy who sees the game that well, has the production to back it up, but because of his athletic deficiencies, just like can't play at all in the NBA. It'd be one thing if like Rody, he were like 6'5" because then obviously it's a much more saturated position group, but he's 6'8" plus in shoes. And so like, like I said, I'm between the two of you. I'm of two minds about Graves. And,

I, you know, it's just basketball feel is sort of the most underrated thing every year. But it does, I do clock that his offensive game is sort of like already as a small ball five is kind of how he plays, and you can't just like become a small ball five in the NBA. That's usually reserved for extremely athletic people that teams put there as sort of like a gadget look because they know they're so defensively versatile. You know, it's not like you, you're there because that's the only position you can play. So, I, it's, I think should the Raptors pass on him, I think they better take someone good if they're going to, you know, if he's there, I think he'd be very tempting, but I could understand it. I could understand the process behind it.

The point you make about the small ball five, Jonathan Mo comes up pretty quickly there, is like, you got, you got to justify yourself. You can't just come in saying this is my role. You have to justify it at the NBA level. And if Mobo is a cautionary tale, he's kind of like the inverse of, uh, Graves. He's, he's smaller, he's hyper athletic, um, less skills, and, uh, the athleticism didn't allow him to transcend, at least not yet. He still has a chance at it. But, um, Trey, in terms of, you know, we've talked best player available, but since you don't think he'll probably be the best player available, what do you think of the Raptors in terms of fit with Graves? Do you worry about that?

I, I don't worry about that. I think his game is like super malleable. He has good feel. He's a good passer. I have concerns with him at the point of attack, and the Raptors are like hyper aggressive with how they position their bigs, but that's probably also because they have two of the best, it looks like, in the NBA at at doing so. So, I think, um, paired with guys like Scotty and CMBB, he actually could be an asset on the weak side of the defense. I think a big swing for him is if he's able to shoot, um, if the shooting translates to higher volume and he's able to attack closeouts, that opens up his passing, that allows for the bully drives, and then that's a good rotational seventh and eighth man on a on a playoff team, which is a win for the, for the 19th pick. So I think fit-wise, really isn't my concern. Definitely a win, but I do worry about that shot becoming a high volume shot because it doesn't really look like a high volume shot to me. And Graves likes to make decisions with the ball, and he should. He's very, very good at it. But making decisions with the ball means more often than not that you're putting it on the deck at, you know, at some frequency. And so if he's, you know, it's a matter of what the Raptors are going to ask of him, but I'm like, I'm making him sound like he's inflexible, which is weird for a guy who affects the box score in so many different ways. And by the way, like is all about winning and hustle and, you know, he's, he's really wired to bust his ass. It's just that's what makes him so interesting is like where, where does the seesaw tilt between sort of inherent physical characteristics that that establish a baseline of versatility and all of the feel to make up for it? Like my little pocket descriptor for him is like the Andre Miller of Andre Kiriljenko's like role player, role player ethos, but just like slow, you know, heavy set guard body, but, you know, what is that, you know, he's a real mystery, but I think like one worth exploring at 19, basically in any draft.

So obviously you and I, Chuck, were very high on CB last year. I don't know how you arrived at your, uh, evaluation of him, but I did it through film. I had no idea what his box score plus minus was until I think, but I just started, I don't know, it was like the third time I talked about him. I was like, "Oh, by the way, I guess this guy has the Draymond/Zion box score plus minus." But the thing that popped out to me was watching him kind of like ciddle Jeremiah Fierce back over the half-court line in pick-and-roll coverage. I was like, whoa. And these these drives, you know, but, uh, if this guy is the, the spreadsheet guy, is he seen as high up as CMBB was last year?

Seen what do you mean?

Like, uh, is, uh, I guess let's say spreadsheet FC or whatever, like when you see, I guess consensus, is he viewed as highly as CMBB?

Oh, it depends on which consensus you're talking about. If you're talking about spreadsheet consensus, then I'm sure they have him in the lottery. You know, I, I like to think of myself as a social butterfly when it comes with this these sorts of things. I try not to.

King.

There's there's plenty in the draft to overthink already. You know, trying to overthink which table in the cafeteria you belong at is a a bridge too far for me. I got other stuff going on.

But I would say that uh the consensus with him is that he's going to be available at 19, you know, or the 20s because it's thought of as a very deep draft and he was on no one's radar coming into the year. And that's the biggest bias that follows any prospect, positive or negative, is preseason prior. So the biggest difference between him and CMBB is that CMBB played in a high major conference and no one could guard him. I mean, that's when I watched him, you see all the defensive processing and the the havoc he can cause obviously, but offensively he was just like such a physical monster on the block and his team was doing him no favors. I counted I watched a bunch of CMBB games and saw like one inverted pick and roll that was sort of run by accident where like his teammate was just kind of standing there and not even knowing he was setting a pick. So you I got it from that where I was like this guy is thought of as a defensive player but offensively there's a lot to tap into I thought with Colin and Graves already has sort of found his niche and there's more I would like to know about Herb Sex's role for him and how he decided on bringing him off of the bench because he like to my eye he was their best player. and they were a good team.

Um, but I he it might just be the case of an old school coach being like, "Well, I registered you last year and you got to earn your way, so and you're still not in the shape I want." You know, Santa Clara culture and so I'm going to bring you off the bench. And that's just where it stayed even though he was monstrously productive. And then the coach pats himself on the back by being like, "Look how productive he is. My approach is correct." So, I all of that is to say there is a there are probably more questions than answers, but they're questions that are like worth exploring with Allen. You're not going to see a guy like him next year or the year after that or the year after that. This I mean this the statistical profile is extremely interesting and his offensive role increased as the year wore on. his three got hotter towards the end of the year. He got more comfortable shooting it. And so if you were to think of him as sort of maybe like a a brand of um Mamu perhaps, you know, that kind of he settles into sort of like a jumbo sixth man point forward that can, you know, space and but also in Graves' case probably have a little hotter motor on the defensive end. Though I love Mamu. I mean, that could be a role for him, too. But they already have Amamu and how many, you know, how many are you going to have? So, I get I get that question as far as the Raptors go as well.

So, yeah, they got to if you're not going to see this guy for another four years, you got to figure out like I don't know if I've ever seen anyone play like Dewan Hernandez did, but that ended up being not a great thing, you know, and yeah, Kenny Loftton Jr. Like those are the right names to bring up as like questions like, well, you know, is he a novelty? that sort of thing. It's it's I think Santa Clara's competition is a bit higher than, you know, Lex or Colorado States, but it's it's worth asking the question. I I would say that Graves was a better prospect than either of those other two guys.

Yeah, I sus I suspect he'll be chosen as if he is. Trey, anything else on Graves before I uh give an ad read and then we talk about Billy Richmond? Um, I I think with with how the playoffs are going, like betting on guys that are physical and play with size and have motor is a is a is a good thing to to bet on. I think where what you see even with each series going up is that small guys just have such a hard time playing in in the NBA, especially in big minutes. There was for the Spurs, there was no one that played that was under 65 yesterday. Mhm. And You couldn't even make it on the floor, man. You usually make it on the floor. There no small guys on that court. So, if you want to bet on someone that can play with that level of physicality while also being able to have feel, I think it's it's not a terrible pick. I just think there's guys in a deep draft that are more intriguing.

And we'll talk about more of them. I know there's there's a lot of guys to talk about. Um, also something we're going to talk about really quick is Tony Bet. This segment is a presentation of Tunet online sportsbook casino. Thousands of slot games live casino at your fingertips in a sportsbook made for Ontario. Get your game on with Tony Bet. Tony Bet is licensed and regulated by the AGCO and I gaming Ontario 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Please play responsibly. Beg of you. Uh, Tony Bet. Right now they're asking you if you'd like to bet on who wins between Oklahoma City and San Antonio Spurs. OKC minus 110, Spurs minus 108. I don't really know how do the numbers work, but I suspect if you're able to predict who wins right now and put money down, you will win money. That's that's the I don't know about a guarantee. I don't know about any of that, but that's that that's that's out there. That's Tony Bet.

Um, okay. So, this is the out of left field. This is Billy Richmond. So, Billy Richmond, height bare feet 6'5 and 3/4, weighs 195 lbs, wingspan 6'8, standing reach 8'5. Everybody who watches him is going to say, I remember who Derrick Jones Jr. is. Could this guy like Derrick Jones Jr. because he's a lefty? And uh, you know, comps are never that instructive. 11.2 points per game, 4.3 rebounds, two assists, two stocks, 63% inside the arc, like very bouncy. 23% from three-point land across 74 takes in college. That's both years. And a 76% free throw shooter across all of college as well. Chuck, you threw this one at me from left field. I said, Billy Richmond, I've not really heard this name. Can you give me the short pitch on Billy Richmond, the Raptor? Uh, so Billy Richmond as a live dribble guard, and when I say live dribble, I mean a guard capable of making decisions on the floor, is probably one of the two or three most athletic in this draft class. And I mean, I say for now, cuz I think the odds are in him going back to school, but should someone fall in love with him, there's there's reason to do so. I mean, he to be a Derrick Jones Jr. type like you mentioned Samson uh would be sort of play finisher here like just non-stop play finishing in college and he played alongside Darius Akuff and I always enjoyed personally watching Arkansas more when the ball was in Richmond's hands rather than Auff that's not a comment on Akuff it's just that he didn't just have uh like the ability to get to the rim in isolation he had the ability to make legit passing improvisational passing reads chained to to his athleticism. So that's that is why I think he is worth looking into for the Raptors.

My So the first notes I wrote, lefty, all caps, cuz I'm a lefty. Bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce. And then live ball playmaking. Probably the most interesting thing he does. Funky as hell. Trey and I, before you got on the call, we were talking about it like his range of motion with the ball in his left hand. He just can get the ball out of every single slot. And uh the live ball stuff, the reads he's making to the rim, spraying the ball is kind of like, whoa, what the hell am I looking at? If you saw this guy play and you watched two games and he hit a one three in each of them, you probably and you don't get to look at the stats, you come away being like, "This guy rocks." And uh but then you go and you see it's 23% across 74 attempts and you say, "Well, damn, that might be a sticking point." Trey, have you been stuck by this?

Billy Richmond has has a fan in me. I think this most surprising watch of the the three. Um, I think when you look at a guy with his archetype that like can't really shoot, super athletic, hot motor that um, most of his best skills are on defense, you would think there is an additional like guard skills associated with that. Like Eric Dones Jr., you're never asking him to to knife through the lane and try to diagnose like a half court half court defense. But like he's no Marshall. Oh, the knife, man. So near and dear to my heart. No, Dalen Swain. I don't know if you've talked about Dalen yet. We did. First episode. Did. There you go. Wait, do you do you like Dalen, Chuck? Sure. Yeah, I like D. Sure. No, I mean like I don't want I I only say that to not go on a tangent. I like Dalon quite a bit. Yes. Um with with Richmond, um he has really good feel um especially off the ball as a cutter and his athleticism obviously pops like both in the open court and as a cutter, which would be super beneficial for the Raptors. I think his ball handling and his processing was the most surprising. Well, I don't think it's a pick for at 19. I I think if there was if he happened to fall into like 27 to 30 and you want to trade up from 50 to get to there, I think it's justifiable like he is a guy that you would want to invest in because he has actual guard skills that usually isn't associated with a guy that's mostly driven based on his athleticism. And the Raptors have had guys that they've built up from the ground up that dunked everything in the half court, had had possible skills and built on those things long term. So, I think he probably should go back into school because if he hits 34% from three, I think he's going to go in the lottery next year.

But, but if he does, I would be very interested in him being there. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no. Okay. I wait. I'll do this one quick. Listeners, if you just heard Travon Heath suggest trading up into the 20s with a second rounder to get a guy. The last time he suggested this, it was for AJ Mitchell and the Raptors could have but took Mo instead. Uh, Chuck, go ahead. Yeah, I I was actually going to follow up on what Trey said as well because, you know, if all that's standing between Billy Richmond and a lottery pick is a 34% from three season on moderate volume, to me that is the definition of like being worth the quote unquote pre-draft, which is like a slippery concept, but I think it applies when there is a clear base of an NBA player here. You just have to be very scrutinizing about what qualifies as an NBA base. And athletically, like everything that you guys are saying about him is what I've seen with him and why I like him so much. And that again you have to bet on stuff that is scarce but not novel you know and it is clear to like Herb Jones for example who's taller than uh Billy moves in a similar way, you know, that sort of electricity and he stayed in college I think four or five years before he got out of Alabama when he displayed just like the tiniest bit of three-point volume and even he was not I mean he's never really had a good three-point percentage before he was drafted. He just was the SEC defensive player of the year and, you know, was athletically rare, had some vision, and the Pells took a shot on him and he's become a mainstay there. Started in the playoffs as a rookie. So, the again at the 19th pick, again, I keep thinking of just sort of beggars and choosers. Billy is like, you can say a home run swing, but it's relative to draft slot, I don't really think it's a home run swing. I think it's a pretty like high contact swing that maybe finds a gap, you know, to extend that sort of baseball analogy. I just did, you all have said it, so I won't restate it, but it's just the feel and athleticism. We talked about it with Morz like of course he doesn't have guard skills. Look how athletic he is. It's late to arrive for something like that. It might be because Billy is so skinny and I don't know enough about his background. But it might be that he's so skinny that he got those guard reps and was just allowed to just play and he developed this really super interesting package. And again, not to knock Akuff because Auff has a lot of talent, but Auff plays a sort of surgical halfcourt game. And when the ball is in his hands that much, if you're a guy like Richmond, like, yeah, your catch and shoot numbers are not going to be super good because you're not a catch-and player yet, and you're just sort of like waiting and waiting either for the ball to find you or to be involved in a two-man game. And he did great when that was the case. But if you ever saw the game speed up, if you watched Alabama play uh Arkansas, that was when Phylon went for 34, Akuff went for 49, you know, watch some of the plays that Billy Richmond made in that game in overtime and in double overtime of that game. And it's there. It's NBA quality processing, recovery, athleticism, all of it. So that's that's again another sort of mini spiel that I got on him.

Okay. some uh what's the spring cleaning of chat. Zero Cosmos says AJ Mitchell in all fairness had way more ball skill. I have to reiterate this is not me saying that AJ Mitchell and Billy Richmond are equivalent. This is me stamping my friend Travon as the truthsayer to which guys are worth trading up for. He could manifest quite differently. The Herb Jones one is interesting, but also Zero Cosmo says neither did Kamar. The last time I was lucky enough to be surrounded by a bunch of people who make decisions in the NBA, they one of the sticking points was how the hell did everyone miss on Tammani Kamar? That guy, how the hell do you miss on that guy? And if Billy Richmond is anything, and I don't know if he's anything close. I've seen about an hour and 11 minutes of Mr. Billy Richmond, which isn't a ton to to stake a claim. But these types of guys, they if they shoot it, it's unbelievable. And if they don't, they still keep getting on the damn floor. Not to mention, the Raptors play super fast. And they have all these guys who can't manage to shoot more than 47% at the rim in transition. Please give it to a guy who's going to punch the [ __ ] out of it at the rim. That's that's the pitch. Although I don't like Billy as much as I like some of the other names we've discussed, I wouldn't I don't outright look away from him. I think he's very very interesting. Trey, is there anything else on Billy that you think is compelling? Yeah, I I think there's real juice for him to be like a a downhill driving threat. if if some of the the touch indicators um show out like he great at the rim um his free throw shooting improved. He's has the driving ability especially as a lefty which is super funky to guard with guard you once a week. Um I I think this has like he has serious upside potential where like he's not just like a okay starter or fifth starter. He's a guy that offers similar to a Kamar where it's a a big swing that changes the outlook of your team.

Yes, Trey. Like what? Say take him at 19. Be with me. You're saying you're saying everything except take him. I'd be ter I'd be terrified to be honest. Look, GM should not lose their job for swinging big at 19. You know, like they should lose their job for passing on Yakel at six. have that be the reason that they lose their job. But no, it's uh it's funny because well actually in terms of 19, the Raptors chose this pick a couple years ago and they got a player who's a really great foundation. And it's kind of funny because these young guys, you don't really know how their skills are going to manifest or translate or anything like that. Jacobe, the player he is in the NBA right now is vastly different from the guy he was in college. in college he was doing I don't know he was doing like a damn near a Cam Thomas impression like on 40% of his possessions and now he is a very conservative offensive player who will never do too much and a guy who's just going balls to the wall defensively and the really interesting thing about a guy with Richmond is a guy who clearly has on ball flare a guy who clearly has the athleticism it's like I if you if you believe in your developmental stuff and if you get to be privy to the interviews, which we don't get to, but the Raptors would, and you get to put them through some of the more compelling drills that uh you like or don't like. There you go. Also, Zero Cosmos says Billy wears a shirt under the jersey, which I respect, Chuck. Defensively, the Herb Jones thing came up. Tmani came up. What's the defensive pitch here for for Billy?

Uh, I mean, he's not at the level of either of those gentlemen, and he's not the size of either of those gentlemen. I mean, he's like you said, I think he's a shade under 66 in socks, right? Six 6'5 and change. Uh, when they say barefoot, it's with socks, right? They don't make them peel it off. I think it's I haven't been to the combine. And I don't That's probably the next frontier is what brand of sock you're wearing. You know, it's true. If I'm in socks, I'm maybe I'm boosting it. You know what I mean? Yeah, a little bit. You got like you got a fat heel, bro. That would maybe that would be the maybe we can we you and I can just we can all just start a sock company right now that's like socks with lifts just for this purpose. But another thing I wonder about Chuck, you and I, two bald men, if we go to the combine, are we coming in shorter than we should be? Are other guys getting the hair boost? Uh, pro. I mean, I don't know. Have you measured yourself against the wall with a pencil lately? That's generally what they do. Some version of that. So, we measured ourselves against Evan Mobley in Rocket Arena. That was that was the last time we measured ourselves. Yeah. I wouldn't look I take a different view of it. I think that bald gentlemen like you and I actually have it good because I think hair is sort of it's just sort of like it's just insecurity in degrees. You know, the older you get, the more insecure you get about it. So, I it might as well come home early and join your brethren. Very supportive community out there. But I'd say uh to get back to Billy defensively, I think um he is not like Kamara I think was a three-year player I want to say at Dayton and Herb was at least that like I said maybe four or five at Alabama. And Billy is still like a he'll overplay off the ball. Like he has all of the energy, but he's not a technician really by any stretch yet. You see his recovery tools which are magnificent obviously given his athleticism, but he would he would be a guy that would be sort of like like a March or April Warrior for his first I don't mean Golden State Warrior, I mean like a Mickey Mouse warrior for his first couple years in the league. And uh you would just the developmental staff thing is right. You want to you would want him to buy into your scheme, which I think he would uh given his motor and you would want to see what you have with him on offense. He probably would play in the G-League for most of his first couple years. But I I confess that there's another uh Calipari wing that I really went hard for last draft which was Ad Theoro who's kind of similar but We loved Ad. Yeah. But like stronger thicker and Ad also had like the knee problem and you know the Lakers I think think he's a piece. He you know got the tiniest cup of coffee in their playoff series against the Thunder. But it's a similar idea where you see the driving talent and you know that that is exceptional. You see the motor and it's just a matter of what what does your system do with him and what what is the path you choose with Jacobe? Jacobe wanted to do what it took to get on the floor and I'm sure the Raptors were like here's what it's going to take for you to get on the floor. And with Billy without that reliable jumper, it's not you can't just say defend your tail off and you'll be in the corner shooting threes. It's a bit more of an interesting discussion because you want to give him some onball responsibility because the onball juice is part of the reason you're drafting him. So it's, you know, it might be for a team with a longer lens than Toronto maybe unless you unless you think the infrastructure there is just so good for a player of his type. I like it. I like the We could have gone with another forward and had it be like these three forwards, but I like Billy being part of the conversation. Um, also Nibil asks, uh, is it Cuadier or Cuadier Copeland or Billy Richmond? Uh, who do you who do you like better as a passer, Chuck?

As a passer, I don't know. I mean, Quadier had just so much more responsibility. He was like the lead guard for his team. So, I guess you could say right now Quidier is the better passer, but I would just rather have Billy in my program. Quadrir to me is, you know, there's a version of him every year. And I know that sounds strange because Quadrir is like 66, like he's solid and kind of can score from every level kind of, but that's a that's a summer league guy to me. Billy is a a swing on someone who can hang on both sides of the ball in much more important months of the year.

Okay. Uh, before we get out of here, Chuck, what are some other names that you think Raptors fans should keep their eye on? Who who all of you discussed? Let me make sure I'm not repeating anybody. It was Bennett Sts, Ibuka Corey, and Dalen Swain. That's that was the first episode. You're number two. So, uh, you all familiar with Cameron Carr from Baylor who had the big combine. Well, he basically while we were doing the first episode, he was turning on the com. So, obviously every Raptors fan was like Cameron car, cam car, cam car. Yeah. So, I mean, he like and Jacobe went to Baylor obviously as well. Um, I don't think that Baylor has done a great job actually since they won the national title with DaVon Mitchell and Jared Butler in terms of uh drawing up offenses that can feature the uh their prospects appropriately. They still recruit well, but they don't the system always leaves you wanting. And Cam was just again if you watch his tape your your jaw is on the floor when he's on. When he's on he you're like oh my god. Like this guy is lotto. No no no problem. This is some sort of like Trey Murphy kind of derivative but with even more bounce and he has a seven, you know, foot plus wingspan. How is this person not an NBA player? Um, and I think he is an NBA player. I've been a fan of Cams all year, but he he struggles to have an impactful sustained two-way performance. I think his defensive feel is pretty low. He has tools to still, you know, get deflections, but it's pretty low. Uh, he loses physical battles on defense especially, but on offense sometimes, too. He's a bit older and the lack of muscle mass at his age, I think he's 21, doesn't like augur particularly well, like he will get chances. He he is deserving of chances and if he is a nuclear enough shooter, then he'll hit. Uh, it's just like you don't want to draft Cam Carr because you think you need more shooting and you think he's just going to solve that problem because more is asked of role players and his role player skill set needs a lot of rounding out in my opinion.

Interesting. Cam Carr, we have Baba Miller in chat. Is Baba Miller interesting to you? Yes, he is. He is. I almost suggested him to you Baba but he is another guy who is sort of like h maybe Mamu curious you know he he's a guy who is o jumbo jumbo oversized ball handler with legitimate uh at least dribble and pass legitimate dribble and pass inconsistent shot. Um, if anything, he's not he he doesn't know like how to take easy money for himself off the dribble. Like he initiates contact when he doesn't need to and then like forces up kind of awkward mid-rangers. But in recent drafts, like the guys who are as big as him with legitimate vision and some handle were like Maxim Reo massively outperforming his draft slot. Yeah. or uh Philipowski or Mamu, you know, Nicola Yovic a little but and Yovic has been sort of inconsistent, but these are all NBA players. It's just sort of like feel and and real jumbo size is again like you could do a lot worse. So, I think he will get chances too. needs to uh shoot it a bit more and be more aggressive looking for his own shot, but lot of passing vision, lot of size, a lot of length.

Interesting. Uh, for I know a lot of people they're waiting for us to talk about Christian Henderson obviously and Visar and you know obviously is it Visar or Visar? Visar I think I think Vesar is how Vesar that's even cooler. That's uh that's really great. Raptors for Leaf says Raptors for Leaf says don't let people fool you with the IQ comp for Christian Anderson Samson first. I've never heard that but scary. Just kidding. I mean that would be great at 19. Wait, let me stop myself. He has way better screencraft, better at getting his defender on his better passer. Okay, can we get your short form of Christian Anderson before we get out of here then?

I think that comment is correct actually. and like and IQ wasn't given point guard reigns at Kentucky very frequently even though he was I guess the SEC player of the year technically in that shortened 2020 season but uh Anderson has a ton of feel man and a legit like ace shooter like he and Sts you know take your pick I guess about who has more overall shooting talent but Anderson is he is no slouch and He's kind of he's been successful in international competition with Germany. He's kind of just won everywhere he's been. And to me, he kind of plays already, even though he is a lead guard, he kind of plays more like a connector. You can just tell that's how he's wired a little bit, but a very smart low mistake kind of connector. And so if there's a place for Jared McCain on the league's best team, there's probably a place for Christian Anderson on some pretty darn good teams as well. So I think he is more offensively polished than Quickly. Quickly also didn't have much in the way of like a floater game coming out of Kentucky and Anderson really does. It's just a case, you know, he's small and so like Jace Richardson was pretty cool, too. Anderson's a better shooter than Jace was last year. But like that's a thing where like Orlando quote unquote needs more efficient scoring and shooting and Jayce didn't really play for him because of his size. And so that's that's the question.

I've uh I've concocted the greatest plan of all time. I want you guys to hear it. If Christian Anderson is better than Emanuel Quickley, then you don't even need to attach R.J. into the trade for OG and Anobi. That's how you get OG back on the Raptors. Then we don't even have to worry about Merez. you can think about a different type of guy and then OG CNB Scotty they lead you going forward. By the way, I guess that New York Cleveland game went to overtime. It's crazy. They did it. Really? I haven't been. I'm in my cupboard, man. Oh my god, the Knicks are up six in overtime. Okay, well regardless, we had people in the chat saying, "Oh my god, I can't believe the Cavs are going to the finals. Now it's swung back." Trey, anything before we get out of here? No, just super excited to to keep digging into guys. I'm still waiting for for my draft crushed. Every year there's one guy that just gets gets my juices going. Billy Richmond was like close to there, but I'm not ready to like I'll take him at 19. Kisses to Billy, but no more. Tell me what your type is, Trey, and I'll try to see if I can predict a crush for you. I think I have a type matchmaker. Matchmaker. Let me see what I can do for you. He loved Queen last year. I did like Queen. I was I was going to say it's usually Queen was fifth right behind CMBB for me. I like Queen a lot. Yeah. I I You're like the mix of Trey and I, Chuck, in terms of analysis here. I think Queen Thank you for the invitation to be the third chair of this pod, man. I accept. Yes. Yes. A thousand times. Yes. But I think in an ideal sense, I've always wanted the Raptors to have uh a guard that could that can drive and score in all three levels. They've never had that. As much as people want to say Kyle Larry, but you shut your mouth wrong with you, man. It's terrible. All right, man. Here. Okay, so at 19. So like Braden Burries is going to be gone. That's kind of what Bur is. So I I don't want to tease you with that. You've talked about Swain. You've talked about a Corey who I love, who everyone loves, rightfully so. Um, Tyler Tanner, really smart kid from Vanderbilt. You know anything about him? I I know that he mentioned his his steel percentage in the tweets. I haven't James Boo. Damn you, James Bu. Poor I mean, poor Tyler is even smaller, but plays uh a lot bigger. I mean, Tyler is however 511, but had like 19 dunks this year. Finished 65% at the rim. I mean, really smart kid, really smart. Like kind of that same Graves category of not physically ideal, but really reads the game. Uh, but I would say there's a kid named, and this isn't full all three levels, but there's a kid named Ryan Conwell who is uh Mikel Brown. about 15 minutes ago was like, "Please, Chuck, I need you to talk about Conwell." That's I didn't see that. Yeah, He's he's a guy who is uh sort of like the upper classman version of Braden Burries, you know, really uh good trigger from three, high volume. He's 215 pounds, nice and stout, and like an like an completely unbothered NBA form. uh hard-nosed defender, but like doesn't go up and dunk the ball. Kind of plays below the rim. And I like him more than most because, you know, Desmond Bane played below the rim. Now, he's not completely as yolked as Bane, but he's got an NBA body and he plays very hard. So, I would watch some Louisville and check out Ryan Conwell if I were you.

Okay. We got some guys. We got some guys. Uh Trey, for the viewers, for the listeners, anything before we get out of here? No, just um we're gonna keep digging into this stuff. This this draft crush will come and when it when it comes, it's it's going to be fierce. I can't wait. We we'll start uh fashioning and formatting the show like The Bachelor and I'll keep presenting uh prospects to you and be like, "Can you get Trey's rose?" Honestly, that's the kind of draft coverage that we need more of. like we that's I would be completely on board for that. That's true. There's there's a little bit of you know uh everyone wants to be right really badly. There's a lot of ego in it. We need a little more light-heartedness of uh you know can you get trees rose you know I sign off for my podcast every episode is it's okay to be wrong about sports because it is and yes more people should embrace it. We'd be a much happier society I think. Yep. That's one of That's one of the the mission operatives of the Pull-up Trade podcast. Gotta you gota laugh at the misses. Um, okay everyone, Chuck, for people want to listen to Chuck talk about draft stuff without uh being tethered to Trey and I lobbing like, "Hey, this answer this, answer this." You can listen to Chucking Darts podcast. Uh, he is the king of the draft. I realized earlier I said draft king, but I don't think I should I should say king of the draft just for, you know, to to make it its own thing really. Um, if you want to listen or follow him on Twitter. What is uh Chucking Darts? Then I'm on Blue Sky as well. I that's where like that's more of just strictly clips, draft clips with some commentary if you want to go there just for it all in one place. I tell you what, I think Blue Sky probably they probably don't have as many of the little draft Twitter bastards clipping, so I bet you your clips probably stand out on Blue Sky. Um, okay, Chuck, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Not only for the the three listed in the title, but the insights on so many guys afterwards. Trey, thank you once again and always for being a co-host and a friend. Chuck, thank you so much for hopping on. That was a beautiful moment you and I had at Summer League. We shook hands and we said, "Hey, man. We know each other from the internet and now we're crystallizing. We've both been on each other's podcast." Listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. You can like the video, hype, comment, subscribe, all that good stuff. It helps more people see it if they feel so inclined. Fellas, we're all done. Listeners, we're all done. Whether you got into this in the morning or at night, have a blessed day and goodbye.