Transcription
Everybody, welcome to another draft episode. If you've been listening to all of them, you just heard Trey of the Pull-Up Trey podcast tell you his favorite prospects. We've been talking, I swear people, probably like 25, 26 prospects deep. Today, not, you know, a deep dive into prospects, but more so a summary of where we've been. And who better to help summarize than J. Kyle Mann, who basically with the the big old Ringer set up on all the draft guide if you need to be, we were talking about walking a path, making it easy. Um J. Kyle Mann. By By the way, is it I've never spoken to Is it J.?
>> We've hovered in each other's orbits for a while, I think. Uh it's Kyle. I'm only I'm only J. Kyle. I'll say this cuz it's not um any kind of any political adjacent anything. It's It's just a incendiary thing to do, but it's I'm It's only there to just like distinguish me from the awful uh satirist, like far-right satirist, Kyle Mann, who just does horrifying things. So, that's the only reason it's there. So, there we go.
>> Wow. So, Kyle, I
>> Yeah, there you go. So, uh I every literally no one in my life call I'll I'll get crap from people. I I'll get crap from people sometimes and they'll be like, "Oh, you're you're so full of yourself, J. Kyle." I'm like, "No [laughter] one calls me J. Kyle." I don't I don't think of myself that way. It's like Yeah, that's the explanation on that. It's James. James Kyle Mann, that's my full name.
>> James. Okay. James is I like that. I have a I have a cousin, James. I've always really I always liked that name. Um but I guess so, you've done a whole bunch, a whole heap of work covering the NBA draft. If anybody actually wants to tune in, you can go to the the Ringer NBA draft guide, and it has not only like a bunch of great written work covering these guys, but the slickest damn user interface anybody could possibly come up with. And also with additions from Danny Chow to help you out. Um the first question outside of how are you doing, James? The first question is who do you think, as you know, an expert on this to some degree, fits well with the Raptors? Who would you like to see go there?
>> You know, I've leaned on Danny a little bit because my process obviously you're you're going to you and your people are going to know the Raptors more intimately than I am and I I check in on them as much as I can. Um from watching the playoffs, I would say that's a pretty good printout of your that's good blood work coming back and tell us where our where our dietary, you know, things that we could tweak. Um I mean, it seems like a pretty create it's a creator desert up there. Uh maybe a tundra desert? Is that a thing? It's so cold, it's dry. I don't know. You can school me on that, but there we go. So, um that's my impression. I was looking for you to disabuse me of any kind of misguided ideas I have about the Raptors, but uh watching them, it just seems like stagnation. I mean, Danny has been insistent that it's either um an anchor or you know, just creator talent. Um and I could see that just from from the outside. So, um I've been all over the place like in terms of who I could expect to be there and there's a handful of guys that would work um for the Raptors. I I guess before I like launch into that though, I mean, is that kind of where your head is at? Is that Is there are there degrees of uh of opinion on what you guys are looking for among the Raptors faithful? Like is it upside swing?
>> There's always going to be disagreements. You know, I think there's a portion of the fan base that is asks for a 7-footer every year, no matter what. Even though Jakob Poeltl's on the team and I get it, the Jakob Poeltl stuff. And they were aghast when a 6'6" uh front court player got selected last year. I was joyous, celebrating cuz I loved Koloko. The creator desert, I think, is true. While Scottie Barnes can, you know, snugly put on that cap during the playoffs, I I think it's kind of akin to maybe a Jimmy Butler that that type of all-consuming performance is a little bit much over the 82 game season. You ramp up for the playoffs. So, they definitely they need more people to carry offensive weight during the regular season. And in that sense, I mean, a guard who can do a lot of that, who can make use of players who want to finish plays, preferably a guy who is, you know, a high-volume pull-up shooter because while he may quickly can do that, he is remarkably gun-shy considering his talent for putting the ball in the net. And so, I would love a great guard. And there's a couple guards that I do like. You know, if I look at who you've got listed here, LeBaron Filon, I think a lot of people would love if he fell. And there's rumors going around right now, but what's what's your sense? I know you obviously have some favorites here.
>> Uh Filon's been my guy for a long time. Going back to last year, going into the college season, he was the dude who I tried in the summers just to give people an idea of if they were ever curious, probably not, but I'll say it anyway, of how the calendar works for me is the summers are usually when I try to get abreast of the of the, you know, EYBLs and the grassroots and things. Just get an idea of who's coming. Um when I did that year before last, Filon just jumped off the page to me. It might even been before that with him. Just super super dogged competitor, smart. Um he can kind of I I put this in his profile. He can he can assimilate into whatever environment he's in. And this past, you know, I thought that he would come back last I thought he would stay in the draft last year. I had him in the teens, I think. Same thing with like Lindeborg. Those were two guys that I really liked. Uh he shocked me when he withdrew. Shocked a lot of people. Um ended up coming back to Bama. And the questions that he wanted needed to answer, I think, were um you know, you played next to Mark Sears, you played next to Aidan Holiday. Alabama's system is very small guard heavy. Very he likes to play. I think he maybe will move away from this because they get end up getting picked on the further they go in the tournament, but um finally needed to come back and just kind of prove that he could score and he really did that. He upped his three-point volume, got it up to, you know, I I believe he got up over 40%. I haven't in front of me, but shot the ball really well. Um he can be a game manager. Um I I think what you said about, you know, the pull-up shooting, when I watched the Raptors, that was one of the main things uh that stuck stuck out to me was yeah, they just the uphill gravity would just do wonders and a lot of the guys, I mean, I've thought about Bennedict Mathurin there. If you want to just run through sort of the the guys who have the the uphill gravity. I think the quickest trigger like off the dribble among the small guys is probably Christian Anderson. If I'm just going to like looking at this list here. Christian Anderson who's a little guard from Texas Tech. Um you're talking about Bennedict Mathurin who I I think would work with with the Raptors. Raptors and the Pistons would make sense for him. Um Mychal has just kind of been a guy that I've in my gut, you know, I don't know if you ever have this. You're like that what I'm seeing makes sense to me, but there's a gut queasiness where I'm just like something's just not, you know, and I have that from time to time. He's so talented and I'm like, what's wrong with me, you know, why can't I
>> You love when those guys go to a team you don't support. So like if it pops off, you're like, oh hell yeah. But if it doesn't, you're like, oh well, maybe you were right.
>> It's kind of the uh you know, we were talking about having a kid, you know, I have a five-year-old. We watch a lot of Moana, so we listen to a lot of Moana. She's got that part uh where she just says you she just asks, what's wrong with me, you know, what is wrong with me? What is this feeling in me? And I have that sometimes with players. Um so that guy um and then there's, you know, you as you go down in the list, you guys won't be picking in this range, but Ryan Conwell from another Louisville guy is another great dribble pull-up shooter. Say all that to say, if you want to get a guy who I think is going to finally on has, and I've said this repeatedly about him, that he has some like Mike Conley DNA in him, and I kind of use this as a as a comparison for a Fox, De'Aaron Fox versus the Conley type, where it's like Conley when he was younger could step out there and be like, "Okay, I'm going to assert myself and run ball screen for a few possessions here, maybe even pretend to be a closer, like I can put that on. Maybe I won't carry that high usage all the time." But then it's sort of like, you know, when the war is over, he he will, you know, relinquish power. He's He doesn't have a problem. Fox on the other hand is just kind of like, "I'm a primary. I'm going to I You can't turn that off in him." Philon has that gene in him where he can 100% be a game manager, orchestrate, and then he could just toggle into like, "I'm going to score a lot tonight cuz they need me to." So, that would be really appealing to me if I were the Raptors.
>> In terms of that's kind of the pitch you hear. As starts, you don't really hear that. Although, his skill set would suggest maybe there's a manifestation of playing off ball. Um but that doesn't A lot of stuff gets projected for guys based on skill sets, and it turns out how you play isn't always dictated by that. But when you look at guys like a Corey, you look at Starts, you look at Philon, you look at Christian Anderson, it's a lot of pull-up stuff. And Corey's probably the weakest of that group. But what is it about Philon that puts him at the top of that group for you?
>> It's It's probably the I mean, he's a little more balanced, I think, than those guys. Like if you think about a Corey, I mean, you spelled it out there. There's the pull-up guys like the Christian Anderson Christian Anderson's, the Bennetts, the um you know, I mentioned Conwell. And then there's guys who can get to the paint. Like Corey's probably the best paint touch guy
>> Yeah.
>> among the guards in the class. I mean, he's a savant at it. Uh his shot has a little bit more of a wind up. Um is he going to Is he He's a little smaller, too, you know? A Philon is probably about 6'3", maybe 6'3" and 1/2" in shoes, so he's a little bigger than him. Um He's skinny, that's one thing about him with the defensive side of the ball. Like he's, you know, we've we've come to see that um the barrier for entry in terms of like avoiding being a target is is pretty pretty brutal, pretty ruthless in the playoffs. So, he probably will have some issues in that. Um but I think he'll figure it out. So, in terms of that he's very well rounded. I think he's more balanced than those guys. And I don't really worry about him on defense honestly that much. I don't know if you have a take on that.
>> I would worry defensively insofar as I worry about any small guard to some degree. That doesn't mean I'm out on small guards though because I think uh we continue to see the value of ball handling especially because I don't think ball pressure is going anywhere. They're going to the NBA's going to keep ramping up and dictating that. You need multiple ball handlers if you want to maintain full in the offense and you know, take some of the I guess the workload off of another guy. You need another guy to bring it up and even better if the secondary ball handler can punish the other team with ball pressure themselves. So, I don't think it's going anywhere, but if it gets in the half court File on, I might. But the last question I have about him is that his athletic testing, which matters some but also not all the time. Um you know, David Lee was on the podcast and said that TJ McConnell had a historically bad combine testing athletically, but obviously he is a you know, a tornado on the court for example. What in terms of not being a super explosive athlete what makes File on so special that he's able to you know, get downhill, have a huge free throw rate, finish at the rim, contort and twist and find his way despite I guess not testing athletically as a lot of his contemporaries?
>> This is so tricky because the public-facing combine data is it just has it has to be contextualized so carefully. Um because you'll see a guy I've talked about this on Ringer NBA show a lot. Most of the time people's eyes glaze over until this time of the year then they're like, [laughter] "Ooh, you know." Um there are just so many variables that surround the way a dude jumps. Um Samson, you might have you might get into this cuz I at following your work, I feel like you might appreciate this. So, there's there are types of flexors when they leap, and your flexor type determines the speed of your jump. So, you might have a 44-in vertical, but you wind up a little slow than someone with a 39-in vertical who has a faster wind up to their jump, like a load, basically. And there are shooters who are like this, too, who are slow loaders into their shot, and they're quick loaders. Like, Steph, quick loader. Karl-Anthony Towns, quick loader, like, surprisingly. Um Or they just don't need to bend their knees to get where they're going. Cooper Flagg's another guy doesn't need to bend his knees. So, there's that part of it. So, I don't know if that's affecting, but I don't I don't know that verticality is necessarily something that that is going to be um a make-or-break thing for me with Philon. He's very wiggly physically. He's very elastic head-to-toe. He can kind of wiggle into creases. And he's just very physical. He's not contact-averse. There are some guards in this class like uh that that that have issue with that. Like, you know, Philon will go in there and hit you first. I mean, there are a lot of different examples of him this past season getting to the restricted area and just kind of surprising bigs with the fact that he'll just get up under them and and somehow score over them. So, he has that in his game. Um and then there's also, you know, speaking to um this is extremely nerdy [ __ ] I'll I'll qualify it again. I'm sorry if I can't swear, but um
>> You can There's also like a curse of storm if you want.
>> Uh there I Yeah, there's also like stimulus-response
>> [laughter]
>> stuff where they've tested athletes where um they'll have them respond to a stimulus and then get to their max vertical, or they'll have them run and things like that. And athletes respond wildly differently to you know, it's like some guys just are are quicker in their decision-making. And I suspect that McConnell is probably in that class. I know Jokic is in that class. I've had, you know, people who know about that tell me that. So, to speak to just like the athleticism thing, I would just before people get like they read those raw numbers and they make a conclusion, just keep that in mind because there's also another layer to the NBA draft combine that is not on TV, that is not like jumping up and hitting the thing, you know, hitting the whatever they're called um that is going on in another gym at the combine. So, just keep I would say just keep that in mind before you like make a hard decision about a player.
>> Yeah, I'm going to double down on the nerdiness. So, for example, listener, there's, you know, I think Evan Zelcha wrote a piece about this a long time ago. Um Ben Taylor has talked about this. I don't know who else publicly. I'm sure there are people, but like uh in neuroscience it's called chunking where you've seen something happen a bunch of times in your life and so your brain creates this it's like a a shortcut for you to
>> decision make quicker. And there's even a physical response to that which is contact reaction. And some people have really fast contact reaction which creates, you know, that your neurons are traveling very quickly or they have a a superhighway that they travel on for this thing. And some people just interface with the world in a quicker fashion in certain context. And Filon seems like one of those players. And those guys, I mean, if you like Scotty Barnes for example, for, you know, listeners and viewers, uh obviously chunks a lot of stuff, reads things very rapidly. Um if you want to talk about flexor to load, is a very quick second jumper and a very quick first jumper. These things manifest in a bunch of different ways, which makes doing this professionally for a team, I think, what a nightmare to try and decide on a young man.
>> Dude, I don't There's so many layers to it. Like yeah, I I I I I was just finishing my board and there's nothing on the line other than me getting like shitty tweets. So, I mean like I I can't it's it's it's terrifying to to imagine yourself in that position. Man, you want to start getting into like the I mean Ben Ben obviously and I remember the article that Everett wrote that was really good. Um I'm always thinking about these things in the most like pseudo-scientisty cringey like not qualified way. I try and I ask a lot of questions to stay curious kind of thing, but there's also [clears throat] the thing of like I I hear people talk a lot about people who are obsessed with like skill acquisition just on the psychological level of um ecological dynamics and you see guy it just like how does your environment set up cues that help you to like develop those pathways to help you be a quicker thinker of basketball and I I go back to like Cooper Flag again or you just you see these guys that have like preternatural almost seeming um feel. Like there's no latency to like they see something like you were saying and they can chunk. When you said the chunking thing it made me think of like um I remember there was a time in like the early 2000s, I think, when I always I when like home computers became a thing. I'm older than you, I'm sure, but like um I remember as the like Intel chips were coming out, they started talking about they had these chips that they had designed that could look basically down the line of the of the you know, processes that were coming in and be like, "Okay, we can chunk those." And they could and it was just faster, made the CPU faster. So, I think that's what you're talking about, but um yeah, that I mean I get the sense I don't know a ton about like LeBaron's. You could read into his his like development or whatever, like what caused that in him. Um I also think that's why America's not good at soccer is that we have horrible ecological dynamics and that's why we're just not good like other places in the world are. Um is there another player on that I mean like I I think about Sterritts a lot in that sense. Like sons of coaches, people like that, guys that just grow up like Steph had this incredible wiring early. J- Jalen Brunson, I honestly I think that's Jalen Brunson is probably a great example of what we're talking about.
>> Well, this is I've asked this to I always ask coaches about this. The Jalen Brunson of it, the Kyle Lowry of it, the Jimmy Butler of it. Guys who are incredible at playing off of two. It's really tough to coach and I ask like guys like Tom Thibodeau or Mike Brown or whomever. Have you ever been able to coach this? Is this end All of them are just like they seem to come with this package and you tell guys and they're like this you are asking me to fly to the moon right now. It's just like damn near impossible. And some guys like Jaquez comes in and is able to do it and you're like damn what where'd you pick that up? And there's obviously like basketball family Jaquez by the way. Yeah.
>> There's also even another one Chino Hills and the Ball family as far as like hit a heads and just mapping the court quickly in transition senses like their dad just set out a pathway for them to do that. But I guess Steurts is a guy if you know to I guess bring it back to the guards of this class, the uh playing extremely slow. What do you make of the ability to play faster if he comes to the Raptors and in a fast league the Raptors are one of the fastest teams? How would Steurts do speeding up do you reckon?
>> I would expect that uh that that Bennett is going to sort of scale into a secondary playmaker sort of a role and that's how I could see him helping like if you're trying to build a playoff team, I think you need to have like you know, speak bring back Ben Taylor. He always uses this word silos. Um you need these major silos of usage like you know, the the Knicks were very narrow just using them as the timely you know, of the de jure kind of example. They were single siloed with Brunson and they couldn't quite figure out how to interface their other silo with Brunson and they finally did and they took off. So I think I think if you're the Raptors, are you going to find like your other playoff silo with Bennit? Probably not in terms of like, okay, this guy can run. We can like lean our whole offense on him for long stretches of time, but what he can do is play on and off ball pretty well. He's a really high IQ player. He's a movement shooter. I think that's going to do really well, but in terms of like the speeding up, um I I suspect that you'll be able to kind of ratchet up the speed of his his off-ball movement and shooting. He's not like a super athlete, but his release is pretty quick. He's shown over time, too, that he's had the ability to, um, adapt. You know, he came level and there's a lot of examples of that because he's leveled up or Yeah, I think it was Division Yeah, Northwest Missouri State and then he, you know, levels up to mid-major Division I and he just kicks ass every time he does. That's the thing that I really like about Sturts. You could just kind of be a cynical cynic and say, I think it's probably going to stop at the NBA, which I'd be you're within your right mind to argue that. I But, I've yet to see him like not um solve a problem yet. So, and I know the I think the Raptors like him. I won't say I know, but I they're interested in him from what I understand.
>> Yeah. Uh, they've been connected to him like the whole cycle. There's some names that are popping up now. I know Graves has been reported by like three or four different people. And it's tough to know if someone like the second person is just if they are actually heard it from another source or if they're just like, oh, good, I can just as if they an aggregator society, you know, it leads these situations. But, before we move on, um, from the guards, I You know what I watched today?
>> What's that?
>> great, uh, Ringer video essay on Tyrese Haliburton from his rookie season. And I thought, wow, you know, some of this comes across as quite prescient. Is there a guard in this class that you think is playing, uh, not It's not the Tyrese Haliburton comp, but that is playing basketball in a futuristic like in a way you're like damn they get it. They really know how to play.
>> Is this your Shawn Evans impression? Do you think do you know do you think you know what I'm going to say?
>> I have no idea.
>> Okay. I was saying you did your I cuz there's an answer cuz I've said this about this guy a couple different times.
>> Woah, oh I mean I I slipped into it then.
>> Well, there's there's the like there's a guy who reminds me of Haliburton a little bit some of his characteristics. Um I don't know that I have a a uh oh my gosh, this guy is the future sort of a thing. I don't know. I feel like Wimby has kind of put up walls around what this can be considered the future. Um I I get a lot of and I don't even really know what if there's a lot of point bringing this guy up because he's not going to be in your old strange but Kingston Fleming's reminds me of Haliburton in a lot of ways. Um he's very bright. If you listen to him talk about the game it's like man this guy just he very obviously gets it. He he went into a team that had like final four title game experience and he came in and was just like I'm the captain now like and and all the guys on the team were like yeah he's the captain and that was insanely impressive. Um he his just off on to off ball energy is something that I really really value a lot um when I watch guards um just sticking on it um is is something that uh I don't enjoy particularly. So unless you're just like a huge bully guard and you can justify it you know like a Luka type which those guys just don't come along. So Fleming's is very very fast. His on to off ball speed is really good. He's got kind of an odd shot. That's the other thing I brought up about him but that's that's the parallel that came to mind that that Haliburton video um it's funny how how much has changed since I made that. That's a really funny pull. I forgot about that one. Yeah.
>> The Fleming's thing about the play making on the last podcast I did David Lee brought up a stat that Sanak goes from an 80% at rim finisher with Fleming's on the floor to about like I think he's sub 50 when he's off. That which is obviously, you know, that's an absurdity. Um okay, with guards, the last thing I made the case from my perspective in terms of ball pressure and all that kind of stuff, but um grand theories of basketball there was you I'm sure you saw it. I don't know how often you're on Twitter, but after
>> There you go.
>> the Spurs and the Thunder. All the guards are big. There's no small guards. Obviously, Brunson would come along and you know, win finals MVP, but do you have any grand narratives about drafting? I have one where I I kind of only want to draft a big man if I consider him to be generational. Otherwise, like in the top 10 or 12, otherwise, maybe not so much. Um but like do you have any grand narratives about drafting? Are there any hard rules you think that uh have value?
>> Uh I don't I don't know if there's like one snippet that I could say that would sum it up. I mean, I can tell I can tell people walk people through my process and this has evolved over time because you know, you start talking about basketball and you think it's hilarious to think back about like when I first was making things and just my level of confidence like
>> Sure.
>> and I'll just look back and and be like, man, like I would I was more confident when I was ignorant to how much I didn't know anyway. I feel like the more I know
>> Dunning-Kruger. Tell you.
>> Yeah, it's going the opposite way. I'm just like I'm like, oh jeez. Yeah, I don't really know anything. Which I'm sure a lot of people would agree with that, but um my process is just I lay out your archetype. Are you an offensive primary or a defensive anchor? And I And I go one through five. Um and that's something that actually This has been Taylor's. I owe him something for this. I mean, that's something we kind of talked through together. And then I'll say like, are you are you a secondary, tertiary, or just like a role? So, one through five and then, you know, so the rarest players are like 01D1s, which is you know, your your LeBron James at times or I'm just trying to think of like guys who were defensive anchors and offensive primaries. It's not that frequent. I mean, like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar at one point. I don't know if you can think I don't know how much of his into history you are.
>> technically
>> Yeah, uh
>> was such a huge part of that, obviously. Yeah.
>> Yeah, usually I mean, you're sacrificing one or the other. I mean, Wemby has a chance to be an 01D1. I Ultimately, I kind of wonder if the highest version of the Spurs is him as an 01D2. That's a whole other conversation, but
>> Oh, interesting.
>> Or or a an 02D1. So, he maybe the be if Harper becomes a primary. So, there's that. I try to decide what I think that'll be what your what you'll be at like in your prime from like 25 to 30. And then uh I just kind of go through are you an advantage creator, are you an advantage finisher, whether that's at the rim or from three, and then are you going to be a target for these groups defensively. So, if you are uh if you're a liability spatially on offense and you're a target on defense, then you're going to move down my board. That's just the way it works for me. Um in terms of the bigs, I was try I was look after you said that, I mean, really the on I mean, unless you consider Cam, I mean, what How do you feel about Cam in terms of that that philosophy? Do you consider him a big or is he just like a big forward? Not quite.
>> is worth it to me. But yeah, like I think he could he'll play some in the front court. I think there'll be lineups where he plays at the three in his career. But um Yaxel I probably think is a wing in the NBA.
>> Mhm.
>> Um you probably since you liked them since last year, I did as well. When he pulled out of the draft, I fell to my knees.
>> Oh, cuz you all could have got him if he had stayed in, right?
>> I I was thinking something along that line, yeah. Um Hans is I really like Hans. Um Quaintance is very popular with the Raptors Twitter, as far as I know.
>> Interesting. He is? Okay.
>> Yeah. Very. Um, you never know, like, I don't know who the taste makers are, but I think somebody just says something in like March 14th and then it snowballs until people like this has to be the guy. And I think starts is probably the guard. Quaintance has been getting buzz for quite some time, but yeah, to the to the big thing I don't know. Like, uh, Hans might be my favorite of like the grouping outside of the initial bump of guys who are at the very top of the the draft, but
>> If you're going to be a big and you're going to and I'm going to take you high, you'd better have some like pretty immense switchability, which is why like Morais fell for me for a little bit and then I I moved him back just because I I do think his his defensive switchability is going to be pretty good, cuz he can sit down at guard. The Quaintance thing is interesting because I kind of feel like I've been like the lone voice in the wilderness on him at times.
>> Speak I may I haven't engaged with your fans enough, I guess, cuz
>> [laughter]
>> I think I just think he's going to end up be he's a distressed asset right now in the terms of I mean, he hurt his knee, he came back too early. I know that for a fact. Screwed his knee up just said it it was a setback. So, we're kind of in this purgatory of wondering like, okay, do we have like a structural problem that's going to recur like like Time Lord or, you know, what what how do you how do we look at this? Um, he's special, man, defensively. Like I I think he's like super super scheme versatile. He dominated the Big 12 at 17 years old defensively. Um, he dunks, I mean, he's got 11-in hands. Um, I don't really even worry about his offensive game that much cuz he's just like Amar'e Stoudemire. I'm being serious, the way he can dunk through people. Um, he's just got special special defensive tools. So, if you all took him, I wouldn't be mad at all if I were or if I were you. It'd be it's risky, but yeah.
>> He His body absorbs everything that gets thrown at it, it seems like. And whether it's him having to like step with a guard and his feet get crossed up, but he just kind of like rolls into himself and stays. He's so god damn big. You don't get bumped anywhere. And yeah, the arms and just he's very um it's not like What is it? The Drunken Master? I think he has an unorthodox movement pattern, but it always seems to get him to the right spots. And I've always loved unorthodox movers because you know, we talked about the chunking and how you know, all players have seen a variation of this movement, but when you change the timing of something, even if it's defensively reacting to something, it gives you a a one-up on players once you get to the the NBA, I think. But Quentince, uh what do you make of his fit in the Raptors frontcourt with I guess it would be Jakob, Scotty, and CMB. Mamadi we'll put to the side for now.
>> Uh you could put Quentince five in that lineup, I think. I mean, I think he's got like a 7'5 wingspan, but he plays he guards bigs. I would encourage um the Raptors people, if you're going to watch him, there's really only one He was not physically right at Kentucky. Um I'm a Kentucky person if that if people don't know that. I feel like it's kind of cliche about me at this point if you didn't know who I am, but um I would watch Arizona State if if you're curious about him, if you want to go watch just the raw tools. Um He but he had one game against Zubi Edefor, who's a guy who probably he has a chance to be a first-rounder in this draft. Uh his first game back and just kicked his ass. And he wasn't even physically right in the game, and you could just uh he walled Edefor up a few times. He's not a shabby athlete himself at all, and uh it just it speaks to what you were talking about with the movement, but I feel like he could play five with Scotty. Like cuz I I like Quentince is has a mean streak, too. Like, I I could see that being productive for them. What do you think?
>> I He passes like the defensive stuff passes with me with flying colors. You just worry about, you know, the Raptors, you know, OG Anunoby was a great pick for them just betting on a guy's health and getting back to it. Um how for like for what you do and for what I do, it's really tough from the outside, but the team gets to talk to him and the team gets a sense of who he is and they get to do all this kind of stuff. Um they're going to be a lot more informed making those decisions. Offensively, I do wonder, um especially on a Raptors team where Scotty, you'd love He has these other priors. Like, he shoots free throws well. He's become quite respectable in the mid-range. He has great touch on hook shots and all You'd say, "Surely the three-point shot at some point improves." But, it just hasn't. CMB should be a big part of what's happening going forward, but Quentin's, is there any expectation of a jump shot or are you just maximizing defensive tyranny and working from that point?
>> I mean, he's the bankable stuff is very in the realm of like Jalen Duren, Mitchell Robinson, Time Lord type stuff. I mean, like maybe maybe maybe someday. He's got kind of a trebuchet three. He's shown flashes of taking guys straight lines off of um single coverage. Um and like I said, I mean, if he gets in the vicinity of the rim, he's going to punch it. There's nothing cute about it. Like, so that that kind of I don't super worry about it. Even when he wasn't physically right, he was still doing that. So, um it's one of those thing It's It's like Mitchell Granted, Mitchell Robinson's a little bigger than him, but I don't um I don't know that he'll ever be shooting like mid-30s from three. I think he'd be like a every so often, I shoot one type guy, most likely.
>> Yeah. The NBA, it is a league of strengths. So, like if the Raptors are convinced that Quentance is going to be really healthy and they're just like, "We're going to sort something out." Even because, you know, NBA teams have to pivot all the time. Maybe you pivot off of one of those guys. Nothing is set in stone and, you know, hopefully in a way that is better than how they pivoted off of Pascal Siakam and OG Anunoby for probably what is not super great looking back, but um other bigs, okay, you talked about Zubie Echefu. I've had like three commenters who we haven't covered him yet, have asked about him repeatedly. What's the quick pitch on Zubie?
>> Um very energetic, like a high-motored um most likely a four, could maybe get by on some five every once in a while. Um can really pass the ball. He's aspired to be a shooter recently, but he's probably I mean, he has more chance more of a chance to shoot it than I think Jaden does. Um My one quibble with him was in the half court. Um a lot of his, you know, he doesn't have a a ton of craft around the basket. It's all just kind of like basic right shoulder, left shoulder stuff. Um it's not super nuanced, but then he also doesn't get a lot of half court dunks. Um a lot of the ones that he's gotten uh So, for a guy with that craft like that, I kind of want to know that you're going to be able to convert. It seems overly simple, but I just want to see you really convert the simple stuff at a high rate. Um a lot of his dunks were just sort of like he he there's a broken play and he just suddenly had runway to the rim. It was like uncontested type stuff. So, I kind of wonder how he scores. Um but he also is just one of those he plays super hard. Um To me, he'd be better as like a late first rounder like early second rounder type guy. I would I would worry about really depending too much. He's probably like a a late rotation uh supplementary kind of a big guy to me.
>> I I feel similarly, although I probably haven't seen as much. You also have Baba Miller at 24, but I started off watching like three plays of Baba Miller and saying holy smokes. And then you watch like, you know, the hours and you just keep saying like holy smokes, but
>> What What do you like about him?
>> Oh my He jumps off the screen. And for someone who, you know, last year the Raptors were they were in the March to death for that. So I started doing draft stuff in February. And so I felt like I had seen, if I was talking about a guy, I'd seen like eight games of him. And I was like, oh yeah, I know so much. Less so this year with them being a playoff team. So Baba Miller, the guys who jump off the screen, I'm like, oh, you get the name recognition right away. And it's just like a huge playmaker all over the court all the time. And we saw that with Chris Boucher in Toronto, except Chris Boucher always kind of uh rubbed coaches the wrong way because not because he's a bad guy, but just because he didn't really adhere to scheme very often. And coaches love guys who will do what they say. Like the just Yeah, the dependability of that that connects to the other four guys on the court is really important. And Chris Boucher was kind of He's a He was a soloist and a freestyle guy. Um but Baba Miller presents like, I think a lot of the upside that Chris Boucher used to. I think he might be a little bit bigger. And uh he's also Yeah, and he's also he's a better leaper, too. I just those types of guys I love. I love Naquwan Tomlin as well, who's a smaller I just I think those guys can fit into lineups, especially I know Baba Miller's 24, but like if you buy a draft pick at 39 or something like that, you who knows. Um I love just the playmaking everywhere that he provides. And who knows what happens with his frame.
>> Yeah, he you were talking about he was barefooted he was 6'10" and a half. The arms aren't as long as I thought they'd be, but he's got pretty big hands. Um he's just for people who don't know much about him. I mean, he's a guy who came over um I believe Spain, but came over to Florida State. I mean, God, we talked about him on the Ringer NBA Draft Show when Kevin was still the Ringer NBA Draft Show. I remember cuz we kept calling him Baba Miller and we thought it was hilarious. Very funny. Uh uh he came over as this sort of hypothetical big wing kind of a guy like facing the basket almost not Josh Childress, but um I don't know. But um he over the course of his career just sort of got recalibrated in terms of like who he is cuz he was shooting a ton of threes trying to just play facing the basket like a wing. And I don't know if Wes Miller at Cincinnati was just like, "Hey man, this is probably the more optimal way for you to play." So he starts playing more in inside the arc. Um the connected passing is incredible. Among the bigs in the in this class, very very crafty. I was his like passing vocabulary in terms of just ambidextrousness. Um it's very he he can open windows. That's one of my sort of tier things is that the I was you you play a lot of basketball, right? There's like the guys the guy there's the people who telegraph the pass and just they don't they don't they don't wait. They just like catch it and try to make. Baba's very good at okay, I need to touch pull this lever before I try to do this thing. And he will see a lever in a place that other bigs don't. He'll be like, "Okay, you know, I'm I'm in this, you know, short corner and I can see that on the opposite side, you know, there's a helper and he can move the the guy zoning on the opposite side. You don't see a lot of big guys in his position doing that. So he has that quality to him. And the three ball I don't think is like a lost cause at all at a lower volume. So, he adds a lot of stuff, man. I moved him up just because I really like to bet on feel. I really like to bet on that those are skills that are going to help a team. Those aren't hypothetical. And now that he's now that he's in a more efficient and healthy shot diet, I'm like, okay, this guy is not wasteful in a way that's going to hurt a team. He's going to help.
>> Yeah. And feel, I don't know I haven't seen anybody do the big like we've been tracking this for 14 years, but the guys who we seem to register and feel have had a better time
developing things at the next level. But in my mind, I feel like that's I I think that that is probably guys with high feel probably are a little bit more apt at taking things on over the course of their career. But that's I mean, that's the dark arts of being in a front office, being in scouting rooms, and all that kind of stuff.
>> Do you have stats that you like for for feel because I have some that I like?
>> Uh so, nothing I've curated, um but something I look to uh Honestly, I don't I don't think I have a home run stat that I would go to. It's Most of what I do is I test anyway. Like I I know you watch some of the stuff we do with like Caitlin and I, I know she will give like here's the points per possession, but most of what we're doing is like this is what they're doing on the floor. But uh what what do you consider like a great feel stat?
>> Oh, I mean, they go hand in hand. Yeah, you got to watch. I mean, if you're just going from the numbers, you're going to you're going to run into walls, step on rakes, all that stuff. But um I have a couple that I like. Yeah.
>> [laughter]
>> Um I have a couple that I like. For bigs, I really like unless you're like a super super elite scorer, I I know that this necessarily applies to you, but assisted usage is one of my favorite favorite stats because I I feel like if you have like a basement assisted usage, um the probability of you being a low field player skyrockets, in my opinion. And then for uh ball handlers, I really love it's a synergy stat, but pick and roll defense commits, I usually weigh that.
>> If you have a really low pick and roll, those are just basic like if you fail those tests, I'm like, "Oh boy." But But you have to they go you can't just look at those. You have to kind of marry them together, but um most of the time they're good for tracking patterns, but yeah.
>> Did you really like Darius Garland last year?
>> Well, this is a mixed bag because I ended up like and this is this is what happens if you overthink. Over the Over the Over the course of the process, I was like I'm talking about prying open passing windows like Garland was pretty much peerless in last year's class, I think, in terms of doing that type of stuff. Um I moved him into the teens on my board, I think, late in the process. And then when we got around draft, I think my final update, I was just like, "Man, he's so talented." I was like, "I'm going to hedge here and just move it." I think I moved him to eight. Um so time Over time, I might If I redraft, he'll probably slip a little bit from there just from watching these playoffs, but um yeah, Garland Garland was somebody that I actually kind of got in trouble with for criticizing him. I was accused of being very negative about Darius Garland many times through the process last year. Yeah.
>> That's uh that's interesting. Um okay, the last group I want to talk about is the forwards. And I know Baba fits into this, but um I do I kind of want to talk Well, I really want to talk about Dalen Terry, who who I like that guy a a
>> Good deal.
>> I want to talk about uh uh Graves as well. Talk about people who think feel when they see him or at least maybe some people are using some numbers to inform their analysis and maybe put them like sixth on their board or something. Um there's a lot of hype for the young man. Um but first I'm going to read everybody an ad read really quick if everyone will bear with me. And so let me tell y'all uh this segment is presented to you by TonyBet online sports book casino. Thousands of slot games like casino and fantasy tips and sports book made for Ontario. Get your game on with TonyBet. TonyBet is licensed and regulated by the AGCO and iGaming Ontario. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Uh do me a favor and play responsibly. Please please please. So TonyBet has uh most valuable player props for next season. It's early but listen, if you think you know, you could probably win some money. Victor Wembanyama plus 200. Uh Tyrese Haliburton plus 9900. There's a bunch of names in between. Thank you everybody. Please be responsible.
Okay. There's a huge gap of like there's guards. There's the main four guys. Everyone knows the four guys. Then there's like 12 guards who everyone loves. Maybe you really love guard number three. Maybe you really got love guard number 11. Then there's Yaxel Lendeborg. And then you don't see another wing in anybody's rankings until probably Swain. Maybe somebody loves, you know, the box score plus minus king Allen Graves. I want to start with Swain because this seems like a very thin draft for forwards especially in the middle. Do you like do any pain for Swain? What's what's the situation there?
>> Oh man. Swain um for people who are maybe catching up on who he is. He's a guy who linked up with Sean Miller at Xavier. Um he was a guy who was you know, a a successful high school player. Came in just baby deer. Not ready to play Division I. Almost a little a little similar to the way Mikal Bridges came into college basketball. And was sort of just on the fringes with them and then he follows him to Texas. But he he always the the selling point on him was legitimate size, 6'7", 6'8", long arms, lanky, wiggly, could get downhill, really handle it, really pass it. So the leap that he makes when Sean Miller goes to Texas is he starts to put on weight. I I forget if it's like 20 or 30 pounds. He starts to get noticeably stronger. Now he's in the SEC playing against SEC wasn't quite as good this year as it was last year, but it's perennially really athletic and strong and big. And he did great. I mean he was he was amazing. If anybody wants to go check out a game they lost, but Texas played against Florida. Florida was really good and they just did not have an answer for Swain. The other thing too is downhill um he has like funky overhanded middle game. He can contort around the rim. He can go three if he if he you know, he's he's aggressive getting to the basket as a scorer. The other thing is that he's a pretty freaking good passer, man. I mean pretty creative. Gets into the teeth of the defense, can make little subtle soft passes, shovel passes, whip skips as I call them like with either hand out to the opposite wings. So that's the selling point on him that the the negative and the big question is very slow deliberate jumper that can go in, but it is probably a rebuild I would I would imagine. It's going to be or something close to it. So but I I had him as high as 12 in this class. I moved him down a little bit. Um but I really believe in
>> Yeah, handling man is like my big thing. Like if you can if you have developmental challenges, I kind of said this on Zach Lowe's show yesterday. If you have developmental challenges and you can't handle the ball, I'm a lot more worried about you than vice versa. So, you know, he's he's going to be able to figure some things out just because he is so slick at handling the ball.
>> Yep. I also think even despite the Raptors having Ingram and Scotty and RJ and CMB, I I have no problem. I don't think this is a team that would be like, "Oh, we can't use Swain at all." And for I think we talked about it maybe like a month ago, but for listeners who don't know his measurements, 6 6 and 1/2, 6 10 wingspan, 8 ft 8 in and 1/2 reach. Uh he got his weight up to 211 lb, which everyone was saying he got like real beefy, really big guy. Um 28-in standing vert, 36 and 1/2-in max vert. It It seems a lot more when you see him driving the ball, but I think that's his size. We talked about it a little bit. In an NBA that seems to continue to ask for more ball handling, more ball handling, more ball handling, even if he doesn't really shoot it right away, even just as a guy who brings the ball up, there's value there. As a rim runner in transition, there's value there. As a decision-maker, um I think there's also like Caitlin and I talked about this on one of our episodes, but the seemingly coming trend of the NBA of the higher line of defense, not just the ball pressure, but perhaps higher lines similar to the Miami zone, Toronto did in the playoffs this year. Uh big playmakers will probably have an easier time playmaking over the the higher line of defense. And um big or like big guards or decent-sized wings who can rim run, uh stampede cutting against higher lines, and can playmake if they get a like there's a lot of stuff trend-wise that's moving in his direction except for the three-point shooting. And three-point shooting I have no idea on. But all the other stuff I love. Um Defensively, what do you what do you make of him by the way?
>> One other thing about him physically for the defensive part is he has this physical quality that I think is really he can flatten himself really well. I don't know if you remember this, but I like there was always this toy when you would go to like the mall or whatever Target or what it was called a a Hoberman sphere. Do you ever see these? It was like the small
>> Yeah.
>> Well, it would expand really big. You know, I would always go and I would look at it for a second and I never bought one. I thought that was like the whole existence of the toy was no nobody ever had one at home. It was always at the toy store, but it could get really small and then it could get really big. And when you watch Swain, he can do that. Like he can really make himself small and flat when he's dribbling the ball. Bends like it his legs and you know, bends his shins. I know that's a cringey thing that people hate when you talk about, but he can really angle his shins. Yeah, [laughter] it's become a it's a target, but but then when he gets to the rim, it's like suddenly he's big again. So I just think he has that quality. Defensively, man, I mean he has the want to and everything. Like I mean, it wasn't it definitely wasn't like his calling card in college from from what I can remember, but um I'm not super worried about him on that front. I mean, he has the looks of you know, those same physical tools of like getting flat is like he can sit low. Those things kind of mirror each other to me. So I'm not not super worried about him defensively. I think he has the potential to be a at at least a head above water defender. Yeah.
>> Yeah, I think so, too. It in regards to the the slinkiness and expanding contracting what is it the saying is it's easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to make it into heaven. If the camel
>> yeah, yeah.
>> Yeah, yeah, from the Bible. Yeah, if the camel were Day'Ron Swain he might have a shot. He'd try to fit through the eye of that needle, man. Um Um
>> Yeah, there's that video of the uh the squid when they're all like on the fishing boat. It like gets under the door. That's Caleb Swanigan. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Um Blake Murphy, when Delon Wright got drafted, referred to him as amoebic. And I always liked that. When Shay was really young, before he really took off and started my thought like slinky, amoebic, these kind of stuff. Not Listen, that's not a Swanigan to Shay comp for anybody.
Um Okay. Allen Graves. Any thoughts on him? Because you have him what is it? 27 on the NBA Draft Guide uh per The Ringer. That's or 26, sorry. What's uh what is holding you back from his, I think, superb statistical case?
>> I think the highest I've ever had him was high teens. So, it hasn't been crazy range for me. Um there are defensive concerns. Um I think to start from here, I think the non-negotiable for him is he comes into the league and really, really overhauls um his physicality. I think he's going to have to become a much, much He's going to have to tune all that stuff up, uh in my opinion. To me, enough of a lateral mover. Um he has defensive tools. I I don't think that the analytics are deceptive with him. Like, he has really, really good um hand-eye coordination on defense. Like, he generates deflections. Uh my thing with like steal percentage sometimes is people will they just get logged a little finicky for me at times, where you'll see a play and be like, "Oh, well, I mean, he just picked that up. I'm not going to Uh so, like, the playmaking is a little You just have to kind of watch. Really strange. You have to actually watch. It's such a pain in the ass, right? So, there's that. Um his processing for like being in the right place at the right time, seeing it a step ahead, like anticipating where he needs to be. I think those things are going to be good. I think the main selling point for him is you're going to get a connector. He's a pretty good passer, and then you're going to get you're going to get spacing from that position. I mean, he's a pretty solid pick-and-pop big at the college level. Um I trust that. I know um you know Visceni and I have kind of talked about this a little bit where they were you know, there's he was wondering about whether or not he's like a pure how much sort of lateral movement is he going to be able to have, how much of a movement shooter, and I'm just kind of like I don't I don't I'm not expecting Graves to deliver a dime based on like coming off of a flare or anything like that. I I think it's going to be mostly stationary threes from him. So, I think there's enough of an ad there that I think it's going to it's going to all net out at a positive player, but um the physicality thing I think is probably the thing I'm like how much of of that is changeable for him, you know? That's that's kind of where my questions lie.
>> Does he compel you at all as a three?
>> That seems troublesome to me defensively. I don't know where you land on that. I think it's much more likely that he figures out how to guard fours than than threes, yeah.
>> I think he could be like on the Raptors, you can play as a four and you could guard like you could Well, on the Raptors with Scottie and Siakam, you can guard whoever you want sometimes, but
>> That's a luxury to have those two, yeah.
>> Yeah, but in general I would be kind of like "Oh, Lord in heaven, what's going on here?" with a lot of the matchups I could foresee for him. And I do think he's far more compelling as a player if he does like wing stuff um like a lot of it. And of course, you can like wings can do pick-and-pop, too. You know, you know, players can players can do a bunch of different things on the floor if they so choose. But uh I'm not super convinced on the the three stuff and I do wonder about like size in NBA front courts if there's just he loses a bit of everything and even if he like musters up that gumption uh if it still comes up short of like this what the stats may portray him to be. Um he's a fun watch though. I did really like watching him. I was like, "Oh yeah, this guy, you know, he knows his way around the court." Um I guess the last guy, Nate Amen. He's lower on your board I think than most of what I've seen. I keep seeing him get talked about as a lottery prospect. Why why is this?
>> You think 20 Is 20 lower than most of what you see? I I feel like I know plenty of some people that have him there. Maybe it's a result of the Well, uh I mean, there's just worry about there's worry about him like being, you know, broadcasted or sold as a shooter when he's pretty inconsistent in my experience. He's pretty contact-averse within 10 ft of the basket. Um I worry about him getting to spots. I just I just get some kind of re-su-shay kind of like the hypotheticals are stacking up to the point where I'm like, "Okay, where are the theoreticals? Where are the Sure, you know, How do How do we get some certainty here cuz I'm just not sure where it's going to come from." He moves pretty well. Um you know, he can pass the ball decently well. Um I just kind of worry about him netting saying it again netting out like as an efficient overall player based on what, you know, he's been sold to me as. That's kind of been my problem throughout the process.
>> So, uh Danny Chau, who is the best of the best, his vision board has a huge chunk of Noah Sengun there. And Noah Sengun last year for the Raptors was like a jump scare for me. I was like, I really don't think and then you you know, I went to Summer League and I got to hang out with I'm Steph No, I'm sure you know him as well.
>> Familiar with him. Yeah.
>> I got to sit with him and watch him be like, "Oh God, Asenge, man. I don't know, man."
>> [laughter]
>> Uh and I yeah, with Amen, I feel very similarly about like
>> He's a little higher feel than Asenge, I will say. Like um But even as Asenge, you're just like, "Okay, you're going to get some easy give give me stuff at the rim just cuz he's so he's such a you know, grease such grease lightning going to the basket at his size and things like that. I'm just like, "Okay, we're going to get some of that activity." But um drafting drafting energy four-fives always makes me nervous. But I wouldn't say Amen's that. I just think he's more uh presents as skill big wing and I just worry about the efficiency of
>> said skill. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Uh for like Raptors fans, drafting Mobo at 31 was like especially since they wanted to transition him into a wing uh was maybe a bit rich, honestly. Like and obviously my co-host was uh we he was begging for them to select AJ Mitchell and listen, you win some, you lose some. But uh Amen, you he would be a guy who you'd want like not too much leverage of your team putting a bunch into him.
>> Same with like Risacher. Same with a lot of these guys. Those energy players are great when they come with low stakes, for sure.
>> That's you you nailed it. You nailed it. I I hear this a lot from NBA side people. I make jokes about this a lot whenever I'm talking about the draft where I'll be talking to a scout. I'll be like, "Do you like so-and-so?" And they're like, "Yeah, I like him." Um and I'll be like
>> [laughter]
>> And I'll be like he'd say, "But I don't like him there." You know, that's the that's the thing you always hear from scouts. It's like it's the value is everything. It's just like I don't hate Native Mit. It's just would I be would I feel good about taking Nate at six like was reported? No, I would not. Would I feel would I feel good about um I'm not I'm I'm not writing him off. These these rankings are based on like just you know, that's what they're based on. It's not it's a how do I feel about the value at that spot versus you know, this contract. There's a lot more that goes into it. So, that's that's kind of why Nate is there. Those things just kind of concerned me.
>> Yeah. The forward class is interesting in this draft for sure. Um not to keep you out too long, is there anything else uh that you think is compelling for Raptors fans to hear about this draft before we get you out of here?
>> Oh, I don't know if I have any like juicy intel for you. Um
>> Yeah, tell who are they drafting?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah, I wish I knew. I wish I could share that one. Um I mean the other one that's I asked Danny before I came on here. You asked me like who Danny would pick and Danny picked Filon. So, I thought that was pretty that was pretty great. We talked about him a ton. Danny has good taste. So, if he says that, I I feel good about it. Um Oh, is there another I mean Mar was the one the other guy. He was saying if you all could get like a legitimate but Mar might go as high as
>> Yeah.
>> know. It there's there's talk that he could go top 10. It could happen. Um I don't have him quite that high. I would admit 15 but um
>> He's a pretty slick front court passer as well, yeah.
>> Oh, saucy with it, man. Yeah.
>> I think this the last thing I'll ask you. I have been raging a war uh and I think a righteous war against the check down pass of the high-low read that big men do and while I don't think Mar Mar actually I think transcends this but anytime a big man makes a high-low pass, suddenly they get the tag is like, "Oh, yeah. They can They can pass." And it makes And then, this is the worst part. You go and you play pick up, and every guy who stylizes himself as a big man thinks they're Jokic now, like trying to make high-low read. I can't believe it, man. It blows my mind.
>> You got You do feel good about the strongly about it. You got fired up. Your energy level That was the highest it was. Um No, I think the problem is and I run into this, too, whenever whenever I see people talking about bigs, is a lot of times those are scripted, too. Like the I think people can are aren't discerning enough at times about like what is the bullets are flying and I need to like map the court and and figure out where this needs to go versus um yeah, this play Can you Can you like read the line that was fed to you when you're on stage and and read it correctly? Like, great. I always say I always make this comparison, what are you going to do when the other person forgets their line or they don't deliver it perfectly and you're on your feet and you have to like go off book for a second. Like, that's the difference between a great passer and a and a guy who can just make a scripted pass. So, I'd rather have the guy that can go off book for a second. So, I agree with you.
>> Do you watch I Think You Should Leave?
>> I've watched a lot of it. Uh I'm not You're not complete with it, but yeah.
>> So, there's a sketch with Paul Walter Hauser, I think his name is, that uh the guy who keeps taking his lines and he has to speak faster to keep his own lines.
>> [laughter]
>> Um that's Those are the type of playmakers I really like. Um but that's That's probably a podcast. Uh
>> I think so.
>> James, what uh do you have anything to plug before we get out of here?
>> You know what? I think I'm just going to take a chance here and plug the Ringer NBA Draft Guide. Um I'm going to say go on in there and read that. Got a mock draft coming Monday, I think. Um working on right now. And then, um, yeah, just skim through there. Get mad. I'm just a vessel for you to feel however you want to feel. If you want to get mad, that's great. I've done my job. If you want to be happy, I've done my job. So, do whatever you want. That's fine. Uh, I wore a Jays hat as a sign of diplomacy, you know. Um, so, there you go.
>> received. I appreciate it. I I wish they were better this year. Vladdy is on pace for like seven home runs. And he's he played almost every game. It blows my mind. Um,
>> Well, I'm excited for you guys. Yeah. I'm old enough to remember the Joe Carter home run, weirdly enough. Like, I was a little kid, but I remember that. So, that's about the extent of my Jays knowledge, sadly. So, yeah.
>> It's big moment though. That's a good one. Uh, I'm sure people listening will be will be happy to hear it. Um,
>> [laughter]
>> Jake Kyleman, everybody. Thank you very much for coming on. You can call him Kyle. And, uh, listeners, before you get out here, make sure to like, comment, subscribe, and, uh, from myself, from Kyle, whether you got into this in the morning or at night, have a blessed day, and goodbye.