Transcription
Today, we went last time. You remember we went through the various phases of the pre-Oedipal phase and the phallic Oedipal phase. Well, from the anal stage, we go to the phallic Oedipal phase, and that's what we're going to do today. And up to here, the oral and anal stages, as you remember, we should divide them into the super stages and discuss what their characteristics were, and so on. Up to there, boys and girls are exactly the same in their psychological development. Once you jump from here to here, they're completely different. And as I think I mentioned to you once, girls do have a much more difficult uh task developmentally to accomplish to reach a normal sexual position than boys do, and you will see why in a moment.
So, the other thing that you need to know is that the relationship of the infant is in these two phases mostly to his mother. The father, in in a normal family where the mother takes care of the child and things like that, there are exceptions to the rule where fathers take the role of the mother and raise the child, and then that applies to them. But in an ordinary type of family, the father during these stages is like the fifth wheel of the car. He's really not much needed. Um because the child's attachment is essentially to the mother, particularly so when he's a very young infant, baby, you know. And then little bit by little bit people gets added to his perceptual world and to his world of objects, which is a complex subject that we will talk when we get to the object sections in the profile. And so, you know, grandparents are recognized and possibly uh acknowledged and so, but you can see that if that toddler falls and hurts himself, there is only one person that can comfort him. And that's the mother. Grandfathers get very upset because they go and try and comfort the child and he goes away. He wants mommy and he's yelling bloody murder. Which means that in many ways the child is attached to the mother in a way that he's not attached to his father and will not be attached to his father for some time to come. So, that's a one-to-one relationship. With some people I guess I learn and here as I said, it's the fifth wheel of the car. You don't really need it, but you can't really let them only the car, you know.
Now, once you get here, that changes dramatically. This is a triangular relationship. And in one corner is the child, the other corner is the mother, and the other corner is the father. And for the first time, because his cognitive development is progressing very rapidly, he becomes aware that the world doesn't consist of him and his mother. And that the other people are completely irrelevant. In fact, he becomes aware that his father interferes in the relationship to his mother. Mother doesn't sleep with him, goes to bed with father. And he is left his home with else at that time. Up to this a stage the cognitive capacity of the child didn't make much of that. You know, whenever he needed mother, all he had to do is yell and mother was there in no time at all. Yeah.
Now, once he gets here, and let me give you a time for that. It's sometimes that period it starts 2 and 1/2 when children are very, very precocious or three to five. That's what that period lasts. After that you get into the latency period. Used to be that that happened much later. To read Freud it happened in his time a lot later. So, for a variety of reasons that are relatively easy to understand, development has been speeding down. And people, some children that are very precocious can be in that a stage up to 1 and 1/2 years of age. Okay? Now he notices that it is not he and his mother. It is he, his mother, and his father, and very frequently he sees that mother goes with father, no matter how much he or he yells and protests and all that. So, he had to take notice of that different kind of situation. His last his ego development, his cognitive capacity and his interest in his mother that was unique now has to be shared. He shares with somebody else and always he doesn't like that too well, you know, but little bit he incorporates the father into that equation. So, this is a triangular relationship. And these triangular relationships are common in life from their own words. There's always, you know, mother and a father and a rival, you know. In in in in a lot of people's life, it's it's a common phenomenon. The triangular relationship is you, somebody that you like and somebody else that is trying to the person that you like and it quickly becomes a triangle. It's the same kind of interaction that you see over here in adult patients, okay?
Now, so we are in the phallic or the Oedipal phase. And that means too that the erotogenic zone has changed. You remember that the erotogenic zone in the oral phase was the mouth and all the activities of the mouth. When you went into the anal phase, it moved to your back and then here it has moved to your front. In other words, now the children have a special curiosity for the front of the body of themselves and the parents and their siblings. Before, very few children pay much attention to it. In fact, it is at this time that children notice the difference between the sexes. And then they really need this difficult because they can't understand why anyone is different from the way they are. So, you're a boy, everyone has a penis. If you're not a boy, everyone is the way you are. And when you see somebody with a penis at this very early age, like a sibling, maybe a baby sibling. I had once in Hampshire a little patient who when she moved into this phase and when her brother was born, she used to tell her mommy, "Mommy, poo-poo, poo-poo." Pointing to the to the penis of the boy because that's the only thing that she could figure. Mhm. How that was until of course she realized that that was not the case.
Now, there are all kind of implications to that because our culture has had the tendency to favor males over females, culturally, for many reasons. I don't mean to say that they are reasonable reasons, but that's that's a fact of life. I mean, it will play a significant role in things that we are going to discuss later on. In any case, let's take the boy who has it very easy, yeah? The Oedipus complex with the boy, for those of you that got the scheme, is the one that is in page nine of the two. The others can copy it for the time being and and maybe able to read you some copies later. And this is Okay. So, there are a couple of concepts that you need to understand. We have talked about about bisexuality, right? And this is a formula. Imagine that this is an Egyptian cartridge with that symbol inside. That is a masculine symbol and that's a feminine symbol. And another form of this cartridge could be this way. That's a feminine symbol and that's a masculine symbol. Obviously, that's the cartridge of a normal boy. And this is the cartridge of a normal girl when she completes her development. Not the beginning, though.
So, what happens in the fight? You understand that we're all bisexual. We discussed that. There are many reasons why. That's an obvious fact of life. We are anatomically, embryologically, hormonally, and psychologically bisexual. What happens is that you happen to develop normally and there's nothing genetically wrong with you. You masculinize there. This is bisexuality has two sides. A masculine side and a feminine side. That's for the boy. So, the masculine side is a little bigger than the feminine side and that dominates his sexual position and his interests and his the choice of his objects and so on, right? And this She a girl when she has really completed her development. And obviously she is feminine with some masculinity in her, but essentially she is a female. Now, that masculinity is there. Just as in the boy, there is that feminine in there and it plays a significant role in conflict. A lot of conflicts. So, I suppose that we don't have much disagreement about the fact that we are bisexual, yeah?
Now, I tell you why. I told you this is the boy. And this is the girl. Once she has completed her development, but before she has done this is good for the boy and the girl and then the girl has to move over there. When she reaches what we call the phallic Oedipal stage, she's in a masculine position. He woos her mother as a boy would. And though she's very feminine and all of it, in terms of where she is at that point developmentally, he is not interested in her father. He's interested in her mother. And it takes some time for her to change that interest. Now, you understand that for the boy, this is all he has to do to win over. He got sex with this masculine, yeah? Let's Let's break this down. And this is the way you do it. We're talking of the boy first, and then we're going to go to the girl, all right? So, the boy has this dominant masculine element and this feminine element. This is what happens in develop. The boy's masculinity looks for an object of the opposite sex. And in the case of the boy, that's his mom. Now, he's still to find what he wants to do with that sex. You see, he still doesn't know anything about what uh sexuality really is like. Remember, sexuality before had all our components, and inner components have moved now to his penis. And he now thinks of mommy and may have erections. Things of that kind. In other words, he's an autoerotic son. His interest is no longer in his back, it's at his front. And in the front of every boy else, that's the ground zero. It's very possible by what he thinks. Right?
Now, assume here that the dominant factor in his bisexuality is a masculine one. Because the the masculine cathexes look for an object of the opposite sex, it looks is the mother. And the mother is yet affected with three pluses. Now, who is the rival in his interest in his mother? That he loved You see, notice I put it in capital letters and with three pluses because that's the real my coin. That's where his feelings are. Who is the rival? The fellow who slept with his mother to take her away. And he finds that he is more and more important than he thought he was. And that he has to share his mother with this big fellow that is there. And may have not too good a character when he gets gross or something of the sort. Now, that's what happens to his masculine component of the bisexuality. But he has a little femininity in that goes to his father because the feminine cathexes look for an object of the opposite sex. And we are going to drive to write this here. And you see, I'm writing father not in capital letters. And I'm going to write it with only one plus. Why? Because obviously the masculine side of his bisexual composition is much more dominant than the feminine side. And that's what I'm trying to highlight for you. In so far as with his femininity he cathexes father. Who is the rival of that relationship? The mother, right? You want your father who interferes with you who is for your father. Your mother is who does that. So, mother then becomes the rival. And I'm writing it in small letters and with just one minus sign so that you understand that this is the dominant position for a boy. All right? This is called the positive complex. Oedipus complex. This is called the negative Oedipus complex. All right? And there is one that we call the inverted complex. Which is different from this, but we are leaving alone. We are going to leave it alone for the moment.
Now, now sometimes this cannot happen because the mother is not available. Because the mother is crazy. Because the mother is depressed. Because the mothers has have so many conflicts with the masculinity of the boy and his genitality and his being phallic like that. Either she's not there because she can't be there. Or she rejects his masculinity in ways that are massive. When that happens, you get here. And then what happens is that both aspects of his sexuality that cannot go to his mother go to his father. Which is the one that is available. And that has three clauses. And in so far as that is true, whoever interferes with that interest that he has in his father which is generally a mother that may be absent or present in fantasy is a rival. And it happens that way. Don't you think it does? It doesn't. In In Hampstead, during the war, there were a lot of children living in the Hampstead war nurseries, both boys and girls. And some of them have lost their families in the war, during the bombing, the V2s in London, and the parents were in the war, and maybe the father was in the army or no way in Germany, and the mother was up north somewhere in Scotland in an ammunition factory working. These children were in these different places where the government placed them. These was the Hampstead war nurseries, what Anna Freud war nurseries. She and Miss Sophie Waehler developed them. And so, these children didn't have any parents. But they had people that lived with them and they took as parents. And uh some people became the mother, the women did. There were some fathers around, there were both males and females. And if there were not in some cases, they could not because they were not close enough or didn't work together or they didn't see them enough. Whoever came that was a male and talked to the substitute father in this case became an idol. And that could be the milkman, the fellow who's delivering the bread. Uh in London they deliver all kind of things to children, from milk to orange juice to bread to all kind of things. So, when there was not a father, they found one. And children that lose a parent, which unfortunately now there are not as many as there used to be before, but that was a common event some 40 years ago, just like it was a common event for parents to lose a child. Because there were no antibiotics and infectious diseases killed people of all ages, from babies to mothers and fathers. Prematurely that happens rarely now. Now it's rare that a child very young will lose his parent. It's an exception. That was not an exception before. It was quite common. Because infectious diseases took anybody anytime. So you have then the positive, the negative, and the inverted complex. Which means the mother is not available for his masculine cathexes. Then both these cathexes and those that should have gone to the mother that is not available go to the object that is available, but is the father. So as you see, that's the Oedipus complex of the girl. And it's the first stage of the Oedipus complex of I mean of the boy. And it's the first stage of the Oedipus complex of the boy. It's exactly like that. Exactly like that. And you will see how complex it becomes for the girl. I do not know what happens to a fantasized mother in the inverted. If the if the child fantasizes a mother or a next door neighbor or You will give that role to somebody. When I say fantasize say I don't mean to say that she doesn't exist except in her head, in his head or her head. What I mean to say is that the milkman is fantasized as a father in that case. And in this case, whoever approaches the father, which is a female, and gets friendly with him, becomes a mother in the fantasy. Now, the mother is a rival for the affection of the father. Because that woman is there like the milkman was there maybe for half an hour in the morning. He left and you didn't see him until the next day. But as long as the milkman was there talking to his mother, he became the rival for the attention and the affection of the mother, okay? All right.
Now, if you are here, the boy is lucky enough to run into his positive and negative Oedipus complex, which represent both sides of his bisexuality. All he has to do, he doesn't have to change the object. He already has the right kind of sex in the object. It's a female that he's interested in primarily. All he has to do is to change an incestuous object for a non-incestuous one. That he's going to start to do early in latency and particularly in adolescence. And finally, you know, he puts his mother back somewhere. And not that this things disappear ever, because they don't. But I want to call your attention to the fact that we tend to simplify things. And we tend to say, "Oh, he has a positive Oedipus complex or he has a negative Oedipus complex or that's a Oedipus complex." Well, the Oedipus complex is incredibly complex. And you have to say, "Well, what do you mean by that? We all have an Oedipus complex." But as you see, there are several constellations. You think that's complex? Wait until you see the girl. That's the Oedipus complex. So, it's not good enough to say, "Oh, that's a Oedipus complex." You're not saying anything. You have to say what aspect of the Oedipus complex you are seeing. You see, when you see the boy affected his mother with his masculinity, you see behaviors that are very typical of that type of thing for a child and become the prototype of the relationship to an adult woman from an adult man later on. You know? And of course the rivalry that you see with his with his father, he will want to get rid of so that he can have mother all to himself is what you see later on when he's wooing somebody that may have more than one that one suited. You know, he wants to eliminate get rid of them any way you can.
Now, there are occasions in which for a variety of reasons this gets increased. This negative negative side of the bisexual constitution, the negative aspect of this Oedipus complex based on this bisexual constitution get kind of reinforced. And there are times because the mother is not available as I told you and the father is that the father kind of take the position of the mother get not only the feminine side of the boy but get the masculine side of the mother cannot receive, okay? Now, this one when this increases and becomes dominant then you have a man that very likely this has a lot of bisexual conflicts. May or may not become an overt homosexual. But if he does he will want a man that love him as if he was a woman. Because he's connected that man with the feminine side of his personality. You following? So, his position to his homosexual partner will be that his preference his preferred position will be that this man will be like a husband to him. You know what I mean? She in this pair in this relationship he is the female. And he may do all kind of things with his sexual partner. Because frequently people are very complex and they don't fit well together. But if they feel well fit well together, all he want to be is play the role of a woman to the man. That would be pretty as if he was a woman. And indeed his sexual preference will be any intercourse where he gets penetrated. He's not interested in penetrating the other person. His preferred sexual, more pleasurable, more desirable, more exciting activities is behaving like a woman to a man. You haven't seen patients like that? You have? I've had one thing, 16-year-old who was preferred lesbian, her brother was preferred preference was gay, and I also saw the couple. It's very interesting to see the to see the history of the parents and how both the children chose the opposite sex for their primary object, although it wasn't well developed cuz they were still 16, and so it was very complicated to struggle through it.
So, now, this one is fine. Some degree, his mother is a female. All he have to do, as I told you, is change the mother for a neutralized object, a non-incestuous object, and he's in business. All he has to do is find a female outside his family. That's all. This one if he's fixated there, and this has increasing inside, he's fixated in a position that won't allow him to be a male. He's fixated in a feminine position. And he will relate to males as if he was a woman. Probably will do things that women do. You know, dressing, you know, women clothes, use makeup. If he goes to extreme cases, he may have fantasies that he is uh uh really a woman in a man's body, and he may become a trans a transvestite to start with. If it is a conflict, this has other characteristics. He may become a transsexual. You know? This one acting.
Now, this one Remember, this one has both his masculine and feminine cathexes attached to a male. But his dominant position is the masculine one. Right? Because both are sexes, they couldn't be a split. There was no remote to split it with, and if the father was present, they all went to the father, right? Now, he's in a masculine position. He's looking for a man to love. That's his sexual logic. He is not approaching that man from a feminine position. He's approaching that man from a masculine position, which is his dominant position. So, he wants a man that is passive to him. All right? And where he plays the role of the dominant male, and the other is kind of a submissive partner in in inverted commas, yeah? Now, because there is this femininity which have gone to that man, too. You will see a little mixture of feminine behavior within his dominant masculine attitude to his partner mixing. And it will manifest itself in his fantasies, in the quality of the relationship, in the form they share their life, in how they take responsibility, and how they behave sexually. This one is more likely to play a feminine role to his partner on occasion than this one. Will This one cannot play a masculine role ever to his partner. He's always in a feminine position. This is in a dominant masculine position to her head, his homosexual partner, but because of the feminine side of it, bisexuality, is pressing the attached to the object. He can play both sides of the fence. With obviously a preference for one of the sides of the fence. You get following? And you have patients like that, they are common. Very common. Okay? Because when you tell you this doesn't make you into a homosexual. It predisposes you in that direction. But in itself, it doesn't determine whether you be a homosexual or not. That depends on the super ego attitude to this behaviors and this form of object relationship and gratification. And the ego attitude to it as well. So, this will be predisposing you in a given direction, but unless that becomes ego-syntonic, which means it is acceptable to the ego and the super ego raises absolutely no objection to it. What the person will develop is a hell of an neurotic conflict with a lot of problems with his sexuality and a lot of difficulties in his sexual relationships, but he will fight to the death not to become an active homosexual. You understand what I'm saying? Okay. I hope you took notes.
So, when you look at your patients, this is what you have to You hear what they do. I mean, it's not good enough to say, "Oh, he's uh he's a homosexual. He has a bisexual conflict." You have to know what the hell it is that you are meaning because they are going to see You are going to see behaviors that are related to this father and be You see this fellow who prefers men may have quite an attitude to women and think of them as disgusting and be horrified of the fact that they are women. You understand what I mean? It's um Why? Because women are his rivals and so he's developing natural aversion, jealousy of them and demeans them. And that means anything you want to think of from the genitals to anything else, the breasts, it's Yeah. That's from the negative the negative position, right? This is this one here. Yeah. We'll do that. Now, this one will do the same but he's tame because he has some some femininity in himself. So, he's not as averse to women as the other one is. You remember I told you a little while back that there are some species of animal rare and far back that and no bisexual. They only have one type of hormones in them, masculine one. The same is fish. You put them together, they they fight to the death. One of them is gone and because they can't tolerate each other. See, what makes it possible is that we are bisexual. We love a mother and we love a father. If you only loved your mother all male fears be like for the Siamese fish. You animals you want to get rid of them. All right? That's not fun. Yeah. So environmentally, what's you describe how the inverted Oedipus complex might come about? How about the negative? I mean Biologically, it's the same thing and it it may be that for a number of reasons he got fixated to his father. And that may be any number of things. You see, the father may have like some sort of the fathers we do with their boys stimulating him more than you ought to in their own places. And have a kind of relationship to him that is kind of encouraging his femininity rather than his masculinity. In fact, he's treating that boy as if he was a girl. And maybe he wanted a girl, you know what I mean? So, there are all kind of things that influence that. And you have to think about all of that. Because some of these things he dropped bottom. And you can't change that. But whatever was created by conflict developmentally, that can be changed.
Now, let me add you a fact. This bisexuality both the masculinity and the femininity that we both have, and we do have it. We have masculine hormones and feminine hormones. I have them, you have them. You know. That's the way it is. We all do. We all have a mother and a father. We all love the man and woman. And we all were born from a primordial uh kind of mold which was feminine in nature. Embryologically the matrix is a feminine not a masculine one. People thought for a long time that it was the other way around that the matrix was a masculine one and the clitoris was an atrophy of the penis. In fact, it's the other way around. The phallus is a hypertrophy of what would have been the clitoris and the basic model is a feminine model. That's it. An embryological truth fact. Natural. All right. Now, the other thing is though that they are genetics. There are not two of us that are born with the same distribution of masculinity and femininity. Some kids, from the moment they enter that picture, say, "This kid is feminine. He's like his mother." That's not And And there's nothing in the environment that justify that. That's a genetic given. Now, you can't You see, if you have that and then you run into this kind of conflict as you get as you grow, then you have a predisposition already to eat conflicts in the environment that favor Put the seed on that on that soil, will grow real fast and it's strong. You know what I mean? So, very little effort from the environment when you have a strong feminine disposition, though you are a male, is going to challenge your sexual identity really badly and whether you will become a tormented neurotic patient riddled with sexual fantasies that are not acceptable or you become an overt practicing homosexual, depends on a variety of factors. All right?
Yeah, Mike. Uh the the left side of that table describes normal development in a boy, right? The whole left side of that tape. sure. Um the other way is normal. So, does that mean that in normal development there's going to be a part of a boy that will um think and feel uh derogatory toward women? Yeah. In so far as women are rivals, but very little. Because remember the preponderance of the position is a masculine one. So, he's very interested in women, but in so far there is some femininity in him. Yeah? And that femininity is directed to his father. All the women are his rival. And then he he won't like that with that part of him. That's not a problem. That's normal. What is the problem? Is that if for a series of reasons, as I was telling Leslie, this becomes enlarged. Then that's the problem. Because you you deviated now from your normal position, all right? And look what happens. What you have been in his favorite erotogenic zone is changed. It goes from the front to the back again. And maybe or up to the mouth, which may become a genital. You know, and receive the penis of his lover. Now, which of the two he will prefer? You remember when we were talking of the oral, the uh the phallic genital, and how if you think of it in terms of an army and you leave leave a lot of soldiers here and then you are outnumbered over here, you have to come back to this place where you have an important oral fixation. It may be that your anus is not the genital organ that you use in substitute so as a substitute for the phallus, but your mouth will be. Which means you had an auto fixation and that took you all the way down there. All right? All right. It's complex. I want you to think about the complexity of it. You think it's complex. And wait until you see the females. You remember? The boy when he gets here, he's interested in his phallus. That phallus is he doesn't know what he can do with it. But it's a kind of innate predisposition to push it into something. You know what I mean? And you see boys doing that.
Now, little girls for little this, which is called a positive and the negative stage of the boy is called the pre-Oedipus. The stage of the girl, it's part of the Oedipus complex. The daily Oedipus complex of the girl has two stages. That of the boy has only one, the one I showed you. Now, so at this point, and that's usually between two and a half to three and a half or four, he's wooing the mother. He behave toward the mother as a little boy would. And because he cannot displace his uh masculine uh activities, this guy is constantly calling the mother's attention to her prowess. Look how high I climb. Mommy, look how how big I am. Look how far I can jump. They find sticks all over the place and say, "Mommy, look look." You know, they find so stupid. You think I'm lying to you? You think so, you're bananas. Bananas? What was that again? Bananas. That's right. Now, you know, if most of you that I haven't had children and I don't mean just one child because one child may be a little difficult to quite represent. But all siblings or have observed children and some of these things may be a little confusing. If you have done that and we have done that for you donkeys years. You know. Indeed, we plan to do a year if we can. That's why we want to have a nursery school and a toddler group because you will see them move from the inner stage to the finally getting by the stage. And you see the girls in this pre-edipal stage in a masculine position telling the boys, "You are the mommy. I'm the daddy." And the boy said, "No, I'm not the I'm not the mommy, I'm the daddy." Except some passive boys. They have a lot of this already. Well, a lot of these same old thing. I'm I'm I'm the mommy. But most of them don't want to play that game at all.
Now, if you follow them a little further, there comes a time that that girl had to be called that want to be the daddy. She doesn't want to be the daddy. And if anybody wants to assign her that role, she's offended by it. In fact, she now carries dolls and feeds them bottles and all that. In the previous phases, you have in the nursery school. Children play families. If you don't interfere with them, they do that spontaneously. And so the girl gets a cap or whatever it is a children get. And say, "I go to work. You look after the children." To the boy who said, "Yeah, yeah, I look after the children." You come 6 months later and you have to cashier that to her and hear say that. So, don't think it's only in my fantasy. Listen to me. It's well observed. And in fact, if you you buy that book, it's all there. It's called Female Sexuality and the Oedipus Complex. You can only buy second hand. It's out of print. But it's part of the research that was done at the Hampstead Clinic. That's where I got all these material observation. There we have well baby clinics for all the groups, nursery school. And then Imagine that this has been here for 30 years. I have collected that data in a meticulous, carefully careful way. You have files of hundreds of children that you can review. You know. Which way in treatment? Psychoanalytic treatment. No. Games of three times a week and call it psychoanalysis or two times a week, five times a week. All right. I've been the leader of labor.
Now, what does the What happens then? Now, if this is now not a boy, but a girl, and she is in that position, she is in a masculine position trying to relate to females. Females are her favorite objects. Which means she again may become extraordinarily conflicted about the sexual fantasies that she has, which is this is a woman with big tits. She gets wet, gets excited, feels a sexual excitement, maybe some contraction, something. And she is horrified by the fact that she doesn't know. She don't want I don't want to feel this way. I'm a woman. Depends what the ego does with it and what the super ego does with it. If it doesn't object to it and she is facing that position, it means that she is fixated in the first stage. This is called the first a stage of the Oedipus complex called a pre-Oedipal a stage of the girl. I'm going to tell you why in a moment. If she is stuck in here, she doesn't move from there. She's in a masculine position. He won't be interested in males. If she if her ego and super ego object to those kind of interest, she's a kind of woman that looks for males but can't relate to them. It becomes competitive and she got better than him. Things that she can run faster, God knows what she will think. But it's not a complementary relationship. It's a competitive relationship like two males trying to relate to one another. Now, if she find a passive female, which you will see in a moment what that is. Then that may be a good match. She will get along very well with that particular they become homosexuals because she's in a masculine position and they are female homosexuals that like to be loved by a female. by a female. Can be a male. But that female has to behave towards them as if she was a male. In other words, she's a male in the relationship. But she can't do that with a male. Have to be a female. She's disgusted with males and male penises and all of that. Okay. Except that the one that is very active may adopt the role of the man in the relationship and use all the resources that she has. She has her hands, her fingers, her mouth, her tongue, and obviously again attached to the bodies like dildos and all kind of other things. In other words, she's behaving like a man to that other lady. Fine. All right. So that's the first stage. Like the the So what has she got to do?
Now, what is the main erotogenic zone of the little girl? Her clitoris. Just like in the boys, it's the phallus. Little girls of that age don't know much about the vaginas. Doesn't play anything physiologically. It's in most cases unless by some reason they have discovered it early. You know. Which may be due to some infections, may be due to some people playing with them. pushing up the fingers in there and things of that kind. It will be It's a silent organ at this particular point in time. Let alone that for those of you that are not physicians, the vagina is a very badly innervated innervated organ. And the reason for that is very simple. If you have to extend it for about into this big for a head and a human body to go through. If it was richly innervated, you will die delivering that child. But it isn't. It's not that it's not painful, it is. Ask those people that have had children whether it was pleasurable, they will tell you no. It was not. But it's not overwhelming either. And it is not overwhelming for the very simple reason that nature in its wisdom, or God if you prefer to think it that way, uh prepared the female anatomically so that that organ can be extended enormously without significant pain. You know. Some pain, but not not pain that will kill you. So she's in a masculine position, the autogenic zone is the clitoris. Now, if you are only interested in your clitoris, and your masturbation is exclusively clitoral, you are not willing to receive a penis. You don't need a penis. Do you? After all, well, the most richly innervated organ of the female genitalia which are clitoris, the most sensitive part of the organ. And indeed as I will tell you in a moment before we finish, the anatomy of the genitalia is such that when the change changes from the clitoris to the vagina, which is a relative change, the clitoris still is the dominant feeling organ. Only that the way the vagina is and the ligaments and the labia as a woman matures are what they do, I'll show you in a moment is they produce a friction of the clitoris prepuce, yeah? Over the clitoris because when the penis goes in and out is pushing these ligaments up and down and these ligaments will rub on the clitoris and that's why women have orgasm. You take the clitoris away as some people did in the past for a number of reasons, thinking that their frigidity was due to excessive sensitivity of the clitoris so they thought we take it away, then the vagina will do it. Vagina has little feeling. Doesn't produce any of the pleasure. It's mostly psychological. The real excitement in the biology of the orgasm comes from the increasing excitement that is produced by the sensations in the clitoris that go somewhere in your spinal cord and finally triggers a circuit. It has produced a an enormous vasodilation of the whole pelvis. That's why the genitalia of women engorge, the labia become enormous and all that. The the breasts the same, face goes red, you know, they produce an enormous vasodilation. When the excitement is enough, then there is a center there that produces sudden vasoconstriction, brought up. Strong circle blood out of the pelvis. That's the orgasm in women. That's the orgasm, it's different from men. Men need to ejaculate something. Women don't need to ejaculate anything. It's the the vasoconstriction. If you want to learn more about it, there is a lot written about it. And it is not at all that knowledge is available. For a long time people were really have all kind of fantasies about this. It was a work of two people called Masters and Johnson who studied the real neuro- neurophysiology of of uh you know, the genital organ, particularly women. Particularly in women. So, that's well established today.
Well, if she stays there, then she is in a masculine position. Her executive organ is a clitoris. And the object that she is interested in is a woman. She's a long way from being a normal female. Right? What does she have to do? She has to add to the clitoris, not change it, add to it, the vagina. If you exclude the clitoris, they become non-orgastic. So, you add In the past people thought you would have to exclude the clitoris and the vagina would take that that role. It doesn't work that way. That's not the physiology of the organ. What you do is you add to the a clitoris as an erotic center in the vagina, which is now mature, and all these ligaments have developed properly, and then, you know, it's kind of a What can I tell you? It's like a form of masturbation where the finger is not involved. It's the penis and you push it in there and that pulls the ligament and the ligaments pull the prepuce over the clitoris and that brings the orgasm. And that's the way it is. That's the outcome. Now, so she has to change or to add to the clitoris the vagina. She doesn't do that, she's in trouble. Because her interest in males, if they even exist, males are no much good for anything. Except in this area, yeah, except to provide the penis. And and and remember, all of this is based on evolutionary needs. It's not for the hell of it. As I told you the other day, it's not just to give you and me pleasure. It's so that we survive as species and our genetic pool continues to reproduce itself. Uh what else she has to do? She has to change the object model for the object partner. She has to change from a woman to a man. Remember, the boy doesn't have to do that. The boy already got a woman. All he has to do is exclude his mother, but he's already in the right camp, in the feminine camp of his interest are in women. The girl, his interest during this stage are in the mother. She has stayed there, she never matures as an adult female sexuality. What problems she will have depend on a large number of things, but I can assure you that she going to be restricted, limited, inhibited in the gratification of her sexuality and her orgastic capacity and her ability to relate to males because she is not psychologically ready to do that. Do you understand what I mean? So, she then has to add to the clitoris and vagina, he then she has to change. That means enlarging the autogenic zone. So, she has to change her masculine position, which is one of pushing into something for one of being penetrated. And that is important. If that doesn't change psychologically, then you get a lot of cases where women are frightened of intercourse, are frightened of whatever gets into them, fear that they will be damaged there or here or in the other place, and terrified of a variety of different things, including having children or having children go through that and all of that. And she has to change the object mother for the object father. And once she change the object mother for the object father, she has to do what the boy did with his mother. He has to look for a neutral object, a non-incestuous object. So, from the father, she has then to move to the non-incestuous character, right? So, this is what happens. You are clear about this?
Now we are in the second stage of the Oedipus complex, the true Oedipus complex of the girl. See, when this was first described historically, which Freud did it, and of course he wasn't a woman, he was reconstructed, right? He said, "It's the same for boys and girls. The only difference is that boys take the mothers as the object, as the positive Oedipal object, and girls take the fathers." And that was for a long time. So, while that was the theory, pre-oedipal, were anal and phallic things. Remember, the Oedipus was a boy takes the mother. The girls take their father. Well, here the girl hasn't taken the father, has taken the mother. So, that's pre-oedipal. It's not anal pre-oedipal or oral pre-oedipal, but it's not the typical definition of the Oedipus complex. That's why it's called first stage of pre-oedipal. Doesn't matter what you call it as long as you understand the concept, you know. But, one of the reasons why I wrote the book is because there was an enormous amount of confusion. So, in Hampstead, that's an analytic there was something called the index in which the cases were indexed. And everything in the case was dissected. So, the Oedipus complex was dissected and so and you won't believe this, but when I got there and got into the index, when I went to index my case, which everybody had to do, there were hundreds of cases indexed. I said, "There's a whole phase missing here." And people say, "You're crazy. There is no whole phase missing." Yeah, I said, "Yeah, I tell you. You are missing the first stage of the Oedipus complex, which I didn't invent. Women did." You see, women corrected Freud and said, "Before we get interested in male, there is a phase where we are interested in our mother, just like the boy is." And it explains why feminine development is so much more complex and women have so much more difficulty in functioning efficiently and satisfactorily sexual, because there are so many factors that can interfere with that. So, now, the cartouche of the girl Do you know what a cartouche is? This is the
Egyptian, you know, you put things inside, and that's a language, primitive language. Well, the same as of the boy. In other words, there was a dominance of feminine, tend of masculine tendency, and clearly a lot of femininity, basically, in her. But the dominant position was a masculine, boy-like one.
To move from this phase to the next one that we're going to describe, I have to change. And then the feminine side of her bisexual makeup becomes the dominant force, and masculinity gets somehow tamed down. That's what I told you. If you observe children in nursery school when they are playing, finally, say the young, you see the role change. They interchange, they, you interchange, they, you attitudes change, their attitude to the boys change, and it's a normal change. Of course, that gets added layers from this stage to latency, to the age, to adolescence, yeah, when you mature really sexually. So, this change has to occur.
Well, now she's there, she's here. And this is the true Oedipus complex of the girl. Why? Because here she is going to take her father as object, as her object, and that was the original definition by Freud. The girls take the father; the boys take the mother. So, when the girl has taken the mother down there, she was pre-Oedipal in that definition, and that brought to a lot of confusion because pre-Oedipal generally means anal and oral. It doesn't mean this stage, or it didn't used to mean this stage. And when I pointed to the end, he was incredibly confused, you know. So, we had any number of meetings until we got it right, you know.
The. Now, you break that down, okay? And this is. This is the, the, this board is so small, but I want to erase that because we need to refer back to it. Let me see if I can stretch it a little bit.
Now, this is the dominant feminine side. Very large. I can't make it very large there, but it is our. Okay? And this being a feminine aspect of the bisexual conflict, normally looks for what? A male. Right? You don't have to remember this. You can reconstruct it in your mind. If you take bisexuality into account, and you know where the cathexes go, you can do it without having to memorize it or anything like that. This. I'm not memorizing this. I'm saying, I'm just telling it to you because I know how it works. It's like knowing the pathophysiology of the disorder, you know, then you know why it is that the patient has this outer deal.
Well, because this is the feminine side of her, it goes, and because this is the dominant force of this part, it goes to her father. In capital letters and with three crosses, to leave no doubt on that it is the dominant force. Insofar as the little girl is interested in her father with this special affection, and affection that she has with the rival who interferes with her relationship to the father, who takes the father, and what, the mother, right? So, the mother is a rival, and he's a bigger rival. That's why she's in capital letters. She is very much hated. At times, it doesn't mean to say that she's not loved as well. But sometimes you will not think that that is true because what you see manifested is this aspect of it, and then all you see is the hate and the rivalry. You say, "Well, well, where is the affection?" Well, it is somewhere, but it's hidden at that point. All right.
Now, this is the positive Oedipus complex of the little girl. All right?
Now, the negative one, she has, remember, so much feeling and affection, but very little is this much as mother, and those who go to whom? To the mother. Well, it doesn't. But because it's very little, we put it in small letters, no capitals, and only one plus. And the father we, which become the rival for that aspect of her that is affecting her mother, is a rival. Which is one minus.
The same that happened at this stage for the boy when the mother was not available may happen to the girl at this stage. It may be a father that is horrified of her flirting with him, or sitting in his lap, or moving her tail on the top of his penis, or whatever it is, or coming and showing herself to him. All kind of things that girl will do. And he may be terrified of all of that. Usually, the terror is because then he is in adults a reversed Oedipus complex. It. You think males have a clear preference for the girls. And mothers have a clear preference for the boys. And, you know, it's all based on this. And on top of that, the boy is treating the mother is very good and don't treat the father so good. And girls tend to treat their fathers very good and don't treat their mothers so good. So, it's a logical derivative. It all comes together. You understand what I mean? Okay.
Well, if for whatever reason, for that, or because the father is gone, or the father is unavailable, is crazy, depressed, can't respond to the little girl's overtures, she may be forced to put both a feminine inside and a masculine inside on the remaining parent, which is the mother. And then all of that has no feeder, four pluses, because like here, this has four pluses and four minuses. Why? Because it's the addition of the masculine and the feminine thing, okay? Here is the same. Who is the rival for that? The absent father, or whoever in her fantasy is a potential rival for the affection of the mother. And this is the inverted complex of the second stage of the Oedipus complex of the girl. There is a first inverted complex of the first stage of the Oedipus complex of the girl. So, as you see, there are two stages.
What has the girl accomplished? Well, she's now in a feminine position, not in a masculine one. She's receptive to males now. She's interested in males. Now she doesn't want a penis; she wants babies. All right? And she has changed her erotogenic zone because she's in a passive, receptive position now, and that is not means that women lie there passively and you don't do anything. That's not true. Women can be aggressive, more aggressive than men, but it means that in the sexual act, the preference is to receive, not to penetrate anybody. Just like for the male in the sexual act, yeah, only the preference is to penetrate, not to be penetrated. You understand what I mean?
Now, obviously, that changes according to where you are in your sexual position. Well, you take this one. So, she has changed the object now. It is a phallus, not the male. The position is a feminine one, not a masculine one, and her erotogenic zone has added the vagina, which is now a receptive organ and really want to receive a penis and contain it. All right? Ah. This be the idea normal relationship. Why? Because she has a right object to the right position and has the right erotogenic zone added to the earlier one. And of course, because she, like everybody, is bisexual, there is a part of her that is interested in the male. That's a minority, and that allows her to make peace with the male. You understand what I mean? They are fighting her all the time.
If this happened and it's inverted, you know? Then look, she is essentially in a feminine position, though her masculine side is attracting the same object, which is an object of the same sex, and the rivalry is a male. This is going to be either a lesbian with a masculine attitude to other women, is to preference one to play the role of a male to her sexual partner because she is the same. I mean, sorry. The other way around. She is interested in in an object of the opposite sex, but from a feminine position. In other words, that's the one that wants to play the role of the female, you know, to this one over here. Which is in a masculine position. That's.
So, as you see, these things have very important. And as you see, when you say Oedipus complex, that's an incredible oversimplification. It's very different for boys. For girls, there are two stages for the girls. There are kind of changes that take place before a girl reach a normal a stage of femininity. Takes longer. It's a lot more difficult, like anything that is more difficult, take longer than has more a step in more places. It gets complicated very, very frequently. Very few men are anorgasmic. A lot of women are anorgasmic, you know. And then you can see one of the reasons why the complexity of this. Okay?
Now, you understood that? I hope. If not the first time, you will understand it later. At least it exposed you to this concept.
Now, obviously, you don't deal with this frequently in psychotherapy, unless you are an analyst, and a very well-educated analyst that is doing psychotherapy. That's the truth. All right. Let me tell you. Well, there are people here that will do this better than I do.
The clitoris here is covered. See, this is the labia minora, which is inside. This is the labia majora, which is outside. And in fact, they are like the round ligaments, tendons, that move from the top, and this is connected with the prepuce of the clitoris, which covers it like the prepuce of a man, yeah? And this is the bottom of the vagina, and the penis goes in there and pushes in and out. When it does that, this is coming down and up. Down and up. And all the time that is producing a rubbing in the clitoral zone, and that excitement gets transmitted to the center in the spinal cord. In the four pressure activities that we were discovering in your dialect, you get ready for it. When the excitement is sufficient, that center will fire out, and it produces a massive vasoconstriction. And that's what you women feel as an orgasm. I don't know if you can describe it. I like, but like, I like to hear the scripture one day. Women are very shy about this kind of for some reason. But you understand why this labia minora, this labia majora, and the penis pushing is in fact pulling on these cords, and these cords are, you know, moving that thing that rubs the clitoris, and that's what it is.
In the past, people thought, and this is true, that that was bad. That's why a very clever woman, she was a princess, was a psychoanalyst. She was a French princess called Marie Bonaparte. She was a descendant of Napoleon Bonaparte. I was a good analyst, a very good analyst. But somehow she got this crooked idea that women that were anorgasmic was because they were too interested in the clitoris and did a lot of clitoral masturbation. Not realizing that without a clitoris, the orgasm is impossible. All that has to happen is not that you have to eliminate that, but you have to add the other thumb.
So, and this is the wisdom of evolution, so that women will receive a penis. The penis will ejaculate in there, you know. And if they pleasure up enough for women to want to do that, otherwise, why the hell, you know, and and that way we survive as a species. All right?
So, once you get there, you are as a boy and a girl in the right position. As I told you, all you have to do is move away from your incestuous objects that we do very gradually. It takes a long time. We don't do that in latency. We don't even do that in adolescence, though we start the job of doing it in latency and try to finish in late adolescence. And some people never does it. All right? They they carry this with them, and then they have a lot of trouble because any object that they relate to us insists to sexuality to it, as a means sexual component, it's based on fixation to this early object. You know what I mean? All right. That's why.