Transcription
Welcome to Trader Talk, where we dish out the latest Wall Street buzz to keep your portfolio sizzling. I'm Kenny Pulcari, coming to you live from the finance headquarters here in the heart of New York City, a global hub where deals are made, fortunes are built, and the next market move is always just around the corner.
Coming up, I'm going to share my thoughts on financial stability. I'm going to chat with my good friend Jennifer Ridley Hansen. And then I'm going to share my Bo Debario recipe. We'll get to that in a moment, but let's jump into the big take.
Everybody wants to be rich, but here's the truth. Financial stability is a real goal. Wealth looks impressive. Stability feels peaceful. It's the difference between staying up late, watching the market ticker, and sleeping soundly no matter what the headlines say. Financial stability means you built a strong foundation. Strong enough to handle surprises, job losses, medical bills, market swings, you name it. You're not bulletproof, but you're prepared. It's not about how much you make. It's about how much room you've created to breathe.
So, what does that look like in real life? You've got six months of expenses saved. You're living on less than you earn. And you're investing at least 15 to 20% of what you make. Your debts don't choke your paycheck. Your insurance actually protects your income. And your net worth grows year in and year out, no matter how small the gains, that's stability.
Too many people chase the next trade, the next car, the next upgrade, and they call it progress. But the real progress is boring. It's paying yourself first. It's saying no to lifestyle creep. It's building margin into life. So when something breaks, and something always breaks, you don't. Financial stability isn't built in bull markets. It's tested in bear markets. It's what lets you stay invested while everybody else panics. And it's what gives you the freedom to take opportunities others can't afford. The bottom line, stability is the quiet flex. You don't need to flash it or brag about it or post it online. You just know that no matter what happens tomorrow, you're going to be fine. And that's the kind of wealth that lasts.
I'd like to introduce my next guest, and she's a dear friend of mine, Jennifer Ridley Hansen. She's director of wealth planning and senior wealth advisor and a partner at Slate Stone Wealth. She's a certified financial planner with over 25 years of experience. She leads the firm's wealth planning platform and works closely with clients to craft customized strategies for their financial goals. Before joining Slatesstone, she spent 16 years in private banking and wealth management at M&I Bank, advising high net worth families on trust, tax, and estate planning. Earlier in her career, Jennifer served as director of financial planning at Financial Finest, where she helped pioneer nationwide financial wellness programs. She holds both the CFP and the CDFA designations, and we're going to get into that. Combining technical expertise with a deep understanding of life's financial transitions. Please join me in welcoming Jennifer Ridley Hansen. Jennifer, it is a pleasure to have you here, all the way from Wisconsin, no less, here in the heart of New York City.
It's great to be here. Thank you so much, Kenny, for having me.
Well, it's always a pleasure. Listen, I think one of the key things, and I said it with your designation, the CDFA. Certified Divorce Financial Analyst. So, let's talk about that because it's let's talk about women and wealth and why women, number one, are taking a larger role in financial decision-making and legacy planning, but what that really means, why you got that designation and how, in fact, important it is.
Yeah. So, so it's a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst is what the CDFA stands for. And so really a specialized training in the financial components of divorce. And so it's really looking at things like proposed financial settlement options, really negotiating that with my client. So I really join the client's team. So that may include their CPA, their attorney, other people in their life that are kind of part of the what they're really looking at in terms of settling the divorce. And so it's really running those numbers for a client. Obviously, divorce is a very difficult time for people. And so you're not always thinking straight.
As a person getting divorced, you're not thinking straight, which is why you need all these other people around you.
Exactly. So you really need to have a strong team around you. And so I really join that team and really again, kind of lead the financial side of it for my client. A lot of clients aren't familiar with all the ins and outs of the finances. And I think part of it too is when you get to splitting assets, you're also really then splitting accounts. So once you get through the settlement and you negotiate that and you agree upon it, the other thing that's really key with the divorce planning is making sure that that settlement is going to really last. So when you agree to that and you sign that and you finalize everything, you've got to make sure that's enough money to last for the rest of your life.
And really, that's something that you help them decide when you do all this planning. It doesn't necessarily mean that when somebody gets divorced that they can't she may have a job of her own which is going to only benefit and enhance what she end, what they end up splitting and getting in a divorce settlement.
Yeah, absolutely. So I think that's really the biggest key is knowing how much, how the money is going to last, how is it going to be managed, making sure that it can support you for your whole life because as we know, statistics say women do live longer than men on average by about seven years. Right. And so I think when you're going through divorce, the other thing too that I want to talk about is what's called the gray divorce. So I don't know if you've heard that term.
So let's talk about it because that's that's actually becoming more of a popular term. I hate to say it like that, but it is.
Yes, it is. And so, so really the statistic today is that one in four divorces today involve women over the age of 65. Okay. So when you thus the gray divorce.
That's the gray. And so not all of us have the gray, you know, when we get to that age.
I have plenty of gray, but I'm not getting divorced.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. And so I think what that means though is if you think about it, so for someone who's been married, let's say 20 to 30 years, right? They've raised their kids, the kids have left the house. Um, you know, maybe they're looking at retiring. Um, they own assets, they've got retirement accounts, they maybe own, I'm sure they own a home or, you know, a mortgage. Like they've got complicated stuff. And so I think when you go through divorce at that time, there's a lot to look at. And again, that's where that whole long-term plan makes the most sense because if you're going to agree to something and you're 65 or older, you need to make sure again that you're getting something that's going to last for the rest of your lifetime. And so, it's really not just women who don't have jobs. Um, it's really women who were in a marriage where they supported the family and, you know, raised the kids and had their own career.
Correct. We're still got assets to split and we still need things that we need to really take care of. And so I think part of it is getting to the point of now that we're gray, um, you know, we we've got more complicated situations. And so I think especially what I work a lot in with, um, are people who have more complicated situations. So complex assets, um, entrepreneurs, business owners, you know, people who own multiple businesses. So there's maybe more complex assets to split. But even splitting a retirement account isn't that simple. And there's a lot of things you can do wrong. And so I think that's where again, having professional advice is really critical.
Well, let me ask you a question about splitting retirement accounts. So, for instance, a married couple, he's got a retirement account, she's got a retirement account, right? Now, maybe his has more money in it. Maybe hers has more money in it. But when you come to split the assets, does it work both ways? Do they just take the total of the assets and split it right down the middle, no matter who has more?
So, I mean, it really depends on the state. So, state law really governs asset split in terms of divorce. Okay. So, so not so that's really kind of the first thing to look at.
Right. They're not all the same.
They're not all the same, but I think part of it too is looking at you really want to get to the point that each part is going to walk away with about whether it's equal, whether it's equitable, whether it's fair, whether it's kind of making accommodations for one person owns the business and that's their livelihood. Well, they can't really sell the business and give the other partner half, you know. So, I think some you have to kind of that's where the negotiation comes in. And I think that's where I help my client figure out what's fair. Um, you know, what's really reasonable and what can you really expect? And so I think my clients aren't looking to, you know, kind of take their partner out and have them end up penniless. I mean, no one's really going for that. I think people generally want to be fair. And I think it's just a matter of how do you get to the point that's fair and then how do you get to the point that financially it's going to be sustainable for both parties.
Right. Right. And so I think that's really where you start. And so it's not as simple as you just cut everything down the middle because there may be certain assets that can't be split or certain things that, you know, one party has that the other doesn't. And so you got to make trades. Make trades. And so that's really when I talk about this financial settlement spreadsheet, it's really plugging in numbers to to get to that point that we can agree on something.
And is a spreadsheet, I guess it depends on the divorce, depends on the people, depends on the assets, how you, in fact, set that spreadsheet up because some people may much be may may be much more complicated, others may just have a simple, just a simple, maybe they don't have a lot of assets or not complex, they just have two big retirement accounts.
Exactly. Right. Exactly. So I think that's really where we can look at what's best for both parties and then figure out how to get there.
In the in the most efficient way of, you know.
And in your practice, uh, in your experience, are there, in fact, have you seen an uptick in gray divorce?
Yes, absolutely. Really? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, so it never used to be that one in four divorces involved 65-year-olds. I mean, I would say just anecdotally with my own practice, you know, I've got 70-year-olds going through divorce, um, and a first marriage. And so I think that's the thing too. So the other stat I want to share sadly is that, you know, it's still 50% of divorces, I mean, 50% of marriages end in divorce.
Yeah.
Still. And so I think when you look at that, it's like whether you're, you know, 25 or 65, half the time you're going to end up divorcing.
Yeah. Yeah. I I often wonder because, you know, we, the gray divorce is clearly part of the industry and you start talking about it, but I often wonder why. And I get it. You know, you stay together for the kids and blah, blah, blah. You do all that stuff and then you're 65 and you look at each other and say, "Okay, I want out." I always find that very interesting, you know, because let's be honest, at 65 you're closer to the end than you were to the beginning. Do you know what I mean?
Well, but I think exactly because of that though, Kenny, is a lot of people look at their spouse now and say, "You know what? I don't know that I want to be with you anymore. I want to spend the next 10 or 15 years with you."
I mean, it it happens. It happens. So I think that's and it could be sometimes again, like you said, people stay together for various reasons and then finally like, okay, now, now what do we do? And sometimes people have just grown apart.
Hold that thought one minute. We're going to be right back. We're going to take a break.
Okay.
Okay. So people sometimes just stay stay together. Maybe it's a business, like you said. Maybe they got a business and it's difficult to kind of split and they're both involved in it.
Um, and so I guess that would be another reason, right?
Absolutely. People. It's interesting because I wonder, I wonder what the grown children end up thinking about their parents at 65 or 70 years old getting a divorce.
Yeah. I mean, for most, I mean, most, they're really shocked. I think often they don't really know. I mean, a lot of a lot of kids at that age, you know, they haven't, they've been out of the house for a long time. They've gone to college, you know, right? So, they've moved on and maybe they notice that mom and dad maybe aren't as, you know, together as they want them to be. Um, but I think, you know, the kids don't really know and they're not always really a part of it, but I think sometimes they're also really devastated. Yeah. When this happens because again, it really kind of throws your whole world.
Right. Pops a bubble that from what you thought you had or was.
Right. Exactly. I think there are other, I think there are others though that recognize that maybe their parents' marriage wasn't what it was and they're probably better off if they divorce.
Right.
All right. So let's move on and talk about, uh, you've got this this theme that you like to talk about is integrated purpose and philanthropy, um, uh, in general, but now let's talk about, you know, maybe in this situation. So let's talk, let's talk about it broadly about philanthropic giving and how everyone should consider Phil. But then in this case, to your point, you said it on, kind of, your opening remarks about women tend to outlive the men, whether they're divorced or they're not, they still tend to outlive the husband and they're the ones that end up in the end with having to make a lot of philanthropic decisions, I guess, unless they make them while they're still married and they say, "Here's what we both want."
But I I suppose in the end, the wife, if she's the last one left, she can change anything she wants.
Usually, yeah, it really kind of depends. But I think I think part of it is really looking at, you know, how much wealth do you have? Where did where did it come from? And then where do you really want it to go? And I think there's a lot of ways to plan that out for clients. Um, I think the other thing is, you know, because women live longer, I think what we're seeing now is what's called the great wealth transfer. So you may have heard that term as well. And so what that means is that because the baby boom generation is really either getting to the end of retirement or really kind of dying off within the next 10, I mean, I'm sorry, but the next. So I mean, these are right. It's true, right? And so I think what, but if you think about it, when when the parents die and the kids inherit, it's going to be the daughters who are going to retain the wealth longer. And then if you think about, you know, people getting divorced, it's the women who are going to retain the wealth longer, right? All right. And if you think of somebody if their spouse dies, it's the women who are going to be retained. So you think of all that together, this is why the women are ending up with the bigger puddle of money.
Right. And in the end, direct a lot of the philanthropic giving.
Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And so I mean, I think women in general tend to be more philanthropic. Um, and I think sometimes it starts really small. I mean, it doesn't have to be millions of dollars that we're talking about giving away, right? Um, it may be something really small where you're doing something on a regular basis. But I think for some clients, they want to integrate the charitable plan with the overall estate plan. So does it make sense at a certain point in your life, 65, 70, whatever, if you if you want to give away now, you again, you don't have to have millions and millions necessarily, but does it make sense for people to consider adding a donor-advised fund, which are apparently very easy these days to create as part of your estate plan, into the estate plan so it makes it easier?
Yeah, I mean, the donor-advised fund, I'm glad you brought that up. That's one of the most popular tools that I see. So it also is called the DAF, sometimes DAF, right? And so that kind of an account is very flexible. So what's nice about it is you can set it up today. You can put money in. So you typically are looking for like low-basis stock, something that you don't want to sell because of capital gains, or some you can put in like real estate, other assets, other property, right? So you put the money into the.
And you get a deduction right up front, do you not?
You do. You do. And so that's kind of the magic of it, right? The magic, right? And so you can put money in today, you can get the charitable deduction, okay? And then you can leave that money in the donor-advised fund. It can grow. It's invested. So whatever goes into the fund gets sold and reinvested into something more diversified. And so now that portfolio is being managed and you can pay out grants. You can also let it accumulate. You don't have to pay out, unlike things like private foundations where annually you've got a required distribution.
Right. Let me ask a question about the donor-advised fund. If if if I put stock into this donor-advised fund, for instance, does the stock, if I put in a low-basis stock, when it goes into the fund, what's the basis? Is it the base? Is it my basis or does it get adjusted? So there's no tax on it.
Well, so you're going to get the deduction based on the market value.
Okay.
Okay. And then it goes into the fund. So your basis kind of goes away.
My basis goes away. But what's is it, but there's got to be a basis in the fund.
No, I mean, it doesn't really matter because when it goes into the fund, it gets sold because the whole point is that the the fund, the donor-advised fund wants a diversified portfolio. So they're not going to own whatever stock I got. They're going to create their own stock.
Exactly. So they sell the, they sell it, no capital gains. You got the charitable deduction. Now they reinvest. And so for our clients, we manage the, we invest the donor-advised fund for them, right? So we're looking at again, typically kind of a balanced portfolio. But if they say, "We're not going to distribute for 25 years," and they can do that.
Absolutely. And so then we're going to, we're going to be more aggressive with that. But if they say, "We're going to pay those out out in one or two years," we're going to adjust the investment plan accordingly, just like you would with any kind of an account. So it's really flexible that way.
You know what's interesting? I had a conversation with one of my clients a couple of weeks ago. It's just a husband and wife. They don't have any children and they're in their early 60s and they're healthy. They're fine, but they're already thinking about what do I do at the end? And so, you know, the husband's going to pass away first and the wife says, you know, "I want to give all this money to whatever." And she said, "I'm just going to, you know, they're just going to get all the money." And I said, "Well, why would you necessarily do that? Why wouldn't you do, um, like something, consider something like a perpetual, uh, trust that is donor, that's a basically a philanthropic fund that then allows it to go on forever."
Right. So instead of just handing some organization here's two or five or $10 million, you that money, when the wife or when the second spouse dies, goes into this perpetual trust which ends up giving forever.
Mhm.
Right.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a great idea and I think a lot of families want to get involved with the giving together. Right. And so I've got a lot of clients who use the donor-advised fund as kind of like a mini private family foundation. Right. Right. And so you can get the kids involved. So that I think especially for the wealthier clients.
Some parents get to the point that they say, "How much wealth is enough to transfer to my kids?" Do I want to, if I've got, am I fortunate to have, you know, $20 million, do my kids each need $10 million or do I really want them to not have that lifestyle and get enough but maybe not so much?
Give them enough but. So don't overdo it. Don't let, don't give them enough that they don't have to work or they just travel the world and do nothing.
Exactly. Exactly. And I think that's again, you know, when I worked in the trust area at the bank, you know, we saw a lot of what you call like the trust fund babies, you know, kids who kind of never had to work, never had to graduate college, never had to. So I think that's what a lot of parents still fear. They don't want to create that for their kids or their grandkids because if the parents don't spend it, it's going to pass down to multiple generations.
Correct. And so what do you want to really? So I think for a lot of these families, making charity as kind of a a big part of the overall plan where the family gets involved in giving, right? So they have the kids come at, you know, holidays, come sit around the Thanksgiving table, let's talk about what charities we want to benefit this year. So then each child can come with their recommendations. Then they're involved and then they do the, they do the vetting. They really do the research.
And they feel like they're part of a good experience and really changing somebody's life or changing some part of the world.
Exactly. Exactly. I think the other thing too is that when you think about things like estate taxes. So if you're in a situation where your estate might be taxable, the donor-advised fund also is another way to avoid estate tax because what goes in the fund is not in your estate, right? And so again, if you think about the kids could pay taxes on what they inherit, or you can put it into a charitable fund and they can give money out that maybe they would be giving to charity anyway, right? And so there's a lot of those strategies again that are really valuable.
So, so let's just talk about one last thing before we run out of time. Talk about, you know, trying to, especially [laughter] especially in a divorce situation. Here you are talking to a divorced woman now who may be new to really kind of understanding her financial plan. Is is how do you talk to them about investing in what they perceive to maybe be a volatile environment and they're nervous?
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so I think a lot of it is really just building a strong team around you, you know. So, not everybody was born knowing how to do finances, right? And I think a lot of women in particular, it wasn't their favorite. Math was not their favorite subject and maybe, you know, and this is not always, I mean, a lot of women are obviously very savvy, you know, we know many, many of them, right? So it's not that, but it's more the familiarity. And so I think, you know, to do it on your own, you just don't have the research and you don't have the time and why would you want to become an expert on all this at this stage when you're going through everything else?
Yeah. No, and I think you're right. And I think that's, and that becomes, I think, even more true as, you know, certainly people get older. I know my own parents' situation at the moment. They're 90 years old and so, and I know what's going to happen. Something happens to my dad. My mother's going to say, "Help me." Because she's not because she doesn't understand, but she's 90.
Right. Exactly. Why would you want it? Yeah. So, so I think building a team around you. I think finding an advisor that you can trust is really key because the person you can trust who's really looking out for your best interest, right? And truly acting as a fiduciary because I think a lot of people say they're a fiduciary and they're really not. And so, and so a fiduciary is in fact.
Go ahead.
Yeah. I mean, it's someone who's looking out for your best interest only, right, at all times.
At all times.
And that's exactly what we do for our clients. That's who you want on your team, right? That's who you want on your team. That's for sure. Um, listen, Jennifer, I really enjoyed this conversation and I appreciate you coming down and all the way from Wisconsin to have the conversation. I love having you on the Slate Stone team because I think it's very important and certainly the void that you fill, the space that you fill, uh, is in fact a very real space and people need to be paying more attention and at Slate Stone, we do and so, and we're lucky enough to have you. So I appreciate that very much.
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Now I'm going to jump into my dish of the day because that's how I always end the podcast and this one is poio. So it's like it's like home cooking. That's really what it is. It's the idea of cooking, first of all, everything in one pot, like one-pan cooking, and it's not new at all, right? It's really one of the oldest methods of preparing food and it really appears in cuisines across the globe. The dish is proof that comfort food cooked in one pot can speak every language. Every culture's got its version of the one-pan miracle. In Italy, it's chicken cacciatore. In Spain and across the Caribbean, it's po guisado. And in every Latin kitchen I've ever stepped into, there's always a pot simmering away with garlic and onion and peppers and something soulful that, that the smell alone could pull the neighbors in off the street. Anyway, this dish was born out of that spirit. Po deario was neighborhood chicken, like comfort food. And it's about cooking with what you've got where you are and making it taste like home. Just a big heavy metal pan, a splash of some white wine, and a little patience. The trick is to let the chicken sear, then slow it all down, let the onions melt, the carrots soften, and the garlic perfume the whole kitchen. By the time it's done, you've built a sauce that hugs every bite. You serve it with a piece of crusty loaf or crusty bread. You pass it around the table and you don't dare apologize for licking your fingers. You can scan the QR code on the screen for the full recipe and you can thank me later.
Now look, that's a wrap for today's Trader Talk, but the conversation always continues. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You got questions or topics that you want me to cover, email us at tradertalk@yahoo.com because we're always listening. Until next time, stay sharp, stay disciplined, and stay in touch. Take good care.
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This content was not intended to be financial advice and should not be used as a substitute for professional financial services.