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Larry C. Johnson: Strait of Hormuz on the Brink: The Escalation Trigger

Dialogue Works Highlights33:40

Transcription

Since you've mentioned the case of, you know, CIA, it seems that the CIA is preparing something for Tucker Carlson and he they want to go against him. Here is what Tucker Carlson said. I want to understand what is your take on that.

>> Is preparing some kind of criminal referral against me, a crime report to the Department of Justice on the basis of a supposed crime I committed. What's that crime? Well, talking to people in Iran before the war, they read my texts. So, the crime under consideration apparently would be the foreign agent act or something like that acting as a agent of a foreign power. And I don't expect this to go anywhere. I'm not too worried about an actual criminal case against me for a bunch of reasons. One, I'm not an agent of a foreign power. Unlike a lot of people commenting on US politics and global affairs, I have only one loyalty and that's the United States.

>> Yeah. Larry, how what do you make of what Tucker Carlson is talking about? It could be a serious case that he he came out and talked about it.

>> Nah, it's it's not a serious case. There is no legal foundation for this. you know, you're required to register as a foreign agent if you're acting on behalf of a foreign government and they're paying you and they're directing you here, say this and do this. Um, you know, I don't, you know, Tucker and I are not by any stretch best friends or great acquaintances. We've we've had text exchanges over the years and, uh, you know, he's called me to ask to interview on certain on a few issues. Um, I mean, I you can go back Good God. 23 years ago. Uh, no, I take that back. 25 years ago, I was on uh Crossfire with him when he was, you know, so he was just a 30-year-old back then. Um, but you know, really this the fact that this he's been told this by friends in the agency or somewhere in the you know, in the Trump administration, it's just a sign of desperation. And you know, I can I can understand Ratcliffe doing it because Ratcliffe is just a tool of Israel. And you know, we can't rule out the possibility that he'll come after people like myself and Ray McGovern and Doug McGregor and Danny Davis. You know, they'll try try to intimidate. You know, they wouldn't be doing that if they were winning. If the war was going great and they were triumphing as they claim they are they they wouldn't be they wouldn't be doing this. So this is just an another act of a desperate government. But uh you know fortunately uh Tucker's got a lot of money and he can hire the lawyers he needs and this will be a PR disaster for the Trump administration.

Larry, the other rumors, let's start with these rumors. The other rumors is about Netna and two recent videos of him are both created by AI,

>> right?

>> And what can you say about the situation around Netao and his case because he's not participating in these, you know, in this security briefings that he usually is part of that.

>> He didn't he didn't participate in one. We haven't seen I don't know if they've had another that's been televised. You know, I I I view it as just a a distraction because u it's not affecting the conduct of the war towards Iran. So, I don't know who's putting it out to, you know, it's one of those shiny objects that a magician uses to distract attention. Uh and I think that that may be part of it. just distract attention from the fact that the war is not going well for Israel and the United States despite their claims that you know they're wiping out the Iranian Navy. I just as a side note on that I heard Carolyn Leven yeah we've destroyed a 100 ships. So I went back and said, "Huh, how many, you know, the CIA fact book, which I just learned, they've stopped publishing now as of 2026, but the last one was in 2025, and the total size of the Iranian Navy was um uh you know, actual ships that float above above the water, uh not including submarines and such, was about 80. So they destroyed they've destroyed 20 more ships than Iran has as his navy which is again just the hype the lying that goes along with these kinds of events.

Donald Trump says that the kamicazi boats most of them were destroyed by the United States. Here is what he said.

>> Iran has been so they put out phony sorry the kamicazi boats. The kamicazi boats don't exist. They're fake and you can almost see that when you look at them. It looks very, you know, because if they did exist, we'd hit them just like we hit other boats all over the place. But they don't exist. In fact, some of the people say, "Where are the boats?" How come nobody's seen the bus? You know why? Cuz it's AI generated. It's fake. And I found I didn't realize this before we started, but Iran is known for a lot of fake news. And they deal with our fake news. And I actually think it's pretty criminal because our media companies who have no credibility whatsoever are putting out information that they know is false.

And here is the video we've got from Iran about the boats. Yeah. This is for for the first time they're showing these, you know, tunnels with

>> Yeah, I think those are called bog hammers.

>> And how come Donald Trump feels that he it's all about AI when it comes to the Iranian people coming to the street? It's AI.

>> Well, if it's Hey, look, if it's AI, then great. Send our ships in there. They don't have anything to worry about because I I mean Iran's been 100% destroyed. So what are you waiting for? The Iran's 100% destroyed. They've lost. They don't have any boats. They don't have any submersibles. They don't have any torpedoes. What? Open up the straight of Homus. I mean, if if that was the case, then that just underscores he's lying because the straight of Hermus is not open for normal shipping traffic and Iran retains the ability to stop it. And you know, they didn't put all of those uh, you know, small attack boats out

>> so they could be videotaped and seen above ground, you know, on the water. They've kept them in secure locations and they'll come out when needed, if needed. You know, right now I think Iran's doing, you know, they're doing quite well and shutting down uh the maritime traffic out of the Persian Gulf. Yeah. I just all you got to do is call call Trump's bluff. AI. Great. Then what are you waiting for? You don't have anything to fear, right? I mean, if he says it doesn't exist, then what the hell you waiting for? and and said, "Why are you asking for all these other Hey, China, England, France, come on, everybody get together. We'll have a flotilla. We'll open that straight." Well, I thought you said it was all destroyed. I mean, God, I you know, I can't keep track of the lot. I'm going have to get one of those neck braces, you know, that you get when you're in an automobile accident. You get neck whiplash on the neck. I gota get one of those because, you know, I can't keep up with this. Back and forth, back and forth. You know, my neck's hurting.

Larry, the Trump administration, you know, the other day he was talking about the genetics of Iranian. This is this is not, you know, they're not like us. They're they're different.

>> No,

>> you mean they're humane. They're intelligent.

>> They're honorable. They're decent human beings unlike the trash that surrounds Trump. Sorry.

>> Because they see it seems to me that he feels the same way that Net feels about Palestinians. They see all these people Amalecch and they don't see what is you know the basis of this sort of mindset because these people are so much you know if you decide based on these sort of ideologies that you have to fight you have to go to war you have to destroy these countries because they're not going to obey because Donald Trump let's let's put it this way what the Iranian media mostly most of the Iranian officials right now feeling about the United States and their strategy In Iran, for example, they say that the United States want us to be slave or you're going to be destroyed.

>> Well, look, whenever the United States goes to war, it's first uh the first thing it has to do is dehumanize the an enemy because if if you approach them like they are human beings like you, certainly tough to kill them. As long as you can convince people that they're cockroaches, that they're like in World War I, the hun, World War II, the the slopes, the slan eyes, the yellow monkeys, not exactly what you'd call humanizing them. Uh, the krauts with the Germans. Um, and you go back and watch even the, you know, the cartoons that were put out in the ' 40s by uh, Warner Brothers with Bugs Bunny, you know, they they, you know, they'd portray the Japanese with big buck teeth and and slanty eyes and, you know, make them out to be like monkeys. Dehumanize, then it's easier to kill them. That's what this is about. Because if you show them as they are, and that's one of the reasons that uh State Department is pissed off at C CNN for going over to Iran and showing the Iranians as they are. Oh god. You mean they're not out clubbing clubbing women for not wearing a hijab? You mean they're uh they actually have children that laugh and smile and play together? We can't have that. that'll make that'll humanize them. So, unfortunately, that's been the uh the US uh method of operation for so long.

Larry Donald Trump was trying to force at least a political move together with European European or NATO countries and he all he also tried to bring China into the conflict and they say come here and help us to open up the straight foremost and the German government said what else can we bring to the table? What else can we bring to the war? Because it doesn't seem that they're much capable of changing the battlefield. How does Donald Trump? It was a political he wanted some political move. He wanted militarily move a combination of both. What is your understanding of what he was asking for?

>> You mean Trump?

>> Donald Trump.

>> Uh help me. Help me get out of this mess. You know, I wish we We should put like a musical track down for these different um different things that Donald Trump says. Like on this one, I'd use the Beach Boys. Help me Rhonda. Help me get her out of my heart. You know, help me China. Help help me China. You know, and help help me China, please get through the straight of our moves. That would be the lyric. Okay.

>> Exactly. You know, the Chinese are sitting back going, "What's with this guy?" You know, because if you have defeated Iran by 100% destroyed, 100%. No, no, no. 120%. Destroyed. Defeated. Why do you need us? I mean, you've defeated them, so why do you need all of us? Should be a piece of cake. Go ahead. Send your troops in there. Send your ships. Go for it. And they're not doing it because the military commanders realize this will be a suicide mission. No, we're backing off. You know, Donald Trump still thinks he's doing the TV show, The Apprentice. Um, it's all, you know, it's all staged. Like when he attacked Car Island. Oh, we devastated Car Island. He left all the oil facilities, oil terminal intact. Next day, reportedly Iran was still shipping oil out of Car Island. Reportedly bombed an air strip and maybe some um I don't know if there are radar sites or what, but whatever he did, it didn't didn't change the strategic or tactical picture at all. And you know and and then you step back and realize there is a reason why the United States has restrict even restricted Israel. Do not attack the oil terminals in Iran because if you do that if if we do that Iran then will take out all the oil terminals in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Dubai, you know, whoever's got whoever's got oil terminals and pumping oil. Iraq, it's going to go it's going to disappear. So then it's not just that there's uh 20% of the world's daily needs for oil is not getting shipped out of the Gulf. It that 20 it will lose 20% of the world's capacity period. It'll be taken off the books and then you're going to be looking at years of shortages and that's going to have a direct impact on economic growth. So that's why the Trump administration, even with all of his craziness, they haven't given the green light for that. What I do find fascinating is uh again the I'll call it the religious conviction of Iran with respect to retaliation. Uh when they they did vow you hit our you hit our oil, we'll hit your oil. You hit our ports, we'll hit your ports. The one area though that they did not and uh one of my one of my uh readers pointed this out to me and I'll get you to verify if you think it's true is when the desalinization plant was hit in Iran. Now admittedly that affects about 8% of Iran's ability to produce fresh water. Iran did not retaliate in kind against the Gulf Arabs because to do so would have meant that many of those countries would have been faced with uh a complete breakdown of their system of fresh water. It could have really caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands if not millions of people. And this one reader reminded me that the the legacy of the Imam Hussein and when when he fought against the Sunni army, you know, 3,000 man strong army and he was only with 70 followers and they were deprived of water for three days and they died in that war. that that is that is a foundation, if you will, of Shia Islamic outlook on the world. And they're not going to do that to other Arabs. They're not going to do that to other Muslims. They're not going to do that to they recognize that uh they're not going to do to others what was done to them. And I thought, you know, that's pretty pretty profound. Is is it you think that's a fair interpretation?

>> It is. It is. Yeah. That's huge. That's the foundation of the Shia faith, Larry. And it's not about every every year they're talking about it. They're just It's a huge It's huge when it comes to the Shia Muslim.

>> Yeah. And

>> well, and we and we've seen, you know, the United States spends an enormous amount of effort trying to demonize Shia Muslims. But uh when when you go back and again look at the history of uh Iran since the Islamic revolution uh they Shia Islam has not encouraged suicide bombers just the opposite. Um it was during the uh is a point that we talked about on Friday during the Iraq Iran war when Iraq attacked Iran and then the United States started supplying Iran Iraq with chemical weapons and first used in August of 1983 and continued to be used 20 times until August of 1988. During that entire time, Iran did not respond in kind. It didn't say, "Okay, we're going to produce chemical weapons and we're going to use chemical weapons on on Iraq." They didn't do that. And I believe it was not because they lacked the scientific skill to develop it. It was the moral foundation of the Islamic Republic that there that this is this is not a contrive re a contrived belief. it it is genuine and the religious principles undergrading it are uh quite uh quite strong. So and this is something United States doesn't grasp. We we assume that they are they are as devoid of moral principles as we are.

Larry, you've mentioned the case of the air defense system of Israel, a fat system and a Patriot system. And we had some reports that their the their air defense system is getting into trouble because the interceptors are somehow they're running out of the interceptors.

>> No, no, no, no. You're wrong. They have they they're not running out. They have run out. It's depleted. I mean,

>> the time of Israel said that. The Time of Israel said we we're not running out of interceptors.

>> Oh, well, they said they're not running out. That's a lie. It's It's Look, it's basic math. And you know, you're you're an engineering professor. You can help help out the audience here. So, 4,000 maximum 4,620 Patriots were produced since 2015. It may actually have been less because when I did that calculation, they said that during the first uh six years, it was between 100 and 300 were being produced. Well, I went with a 300. If I'd gone with a 100, you know, that's 600 as opposed to 1,800. That's a gap at 1,200. But at the end of that as as of the end of 2025, December 31st, 2025, there were a grand total of at at most of 4,620 had been produced. So, let's work through the math. Um, you've got uh and the math essentially is this. There's a missile battalion. Every missile battalion has between four and six batteries. So you can run the math, the calculation of uh a battery time four or a battery time six.

>> Then each battery can have 72 or 96 of the pack three missiles. So again that gives you so at one end you would you could multiply one battery one battalion uh one battery of four uh and then four times uh 72. Uh so that gets you about 300 300 pack missiles at the lowest end per per battalion and then uh at the upper end do not do six times 96. Okay, that that sets sort of the the upper and lower. When you realize that every time you fire a Patriot missile or you got an incoming missile that you need to defeat, you got to fire at least two. Now, I'm ignoring the fact that we've seen multiple videos where they fired four, five, six Patriots at one missile. But let's just go with two. That means under the under the ideal circumstances with 4,620 they could only produce 3,300 or 2,310 they could defend against that many missiles and cruise missiles, ballistic missiles. Well, Iran in the first 15 days of this war, they were firing on average about 50 missiles a day. But let's call it 40 missiles a day. That's 600 missiles right there. So if if they had never if a if a Patriot missile had never been fired in anger that you would have been having a total supply of 2,310. But what we know is at least a thousand have been shot off uh in uh in in Ukraine. So that let's go from 2,00 uh the capability to defeat 2,300 subtract another 500 out of that. What are we down to? That's about 1,800. And so we've just described that they would have used a thousand in just one. So the the they're depleted or almost depleted. The situation with that is even worse. They've they produced from the time they started production in 2007 and as of 2025 January 1st they had 900 total. And once again with those you fire two against each missile. So they're they're either depleted already or they're almost depleted. But they certainly do. They certainly no longer have uh neither the Israelis nor the United States have the defensive missiles in place capable of shooting down Iranian ballistic missiles and cruise missiles. That's a fact.

Many people in Israel, the Israeli media reported that they're not receiving these warning signs before the and it seems that there is some sort of internal failure of you know in informing the people that the a missile is coming for example but is that related to the radar?

>> Yeah. No, that's obvious when when Iran took out the radars, the US radars throughout the, you know, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, um, and they and Jordan, they took out some at the Almo Maf Al-Sti air base in Jordan. That that wiped out the early warning capability. So, yeah, that's that was why they're they are Israel's effectively blinded now. Um, the other thing is with really no air defense, Iran can sit back and hit whatever target it wants in Israel without, you know, they don't have to worry about the air defense systems anymore. Uh, and the longer the longer this war goes on, whatever sort of I'll call them subsidiary systems the Israelis have, those two will be depleted. You know, the the concept of air defense that the West has relied upon was based on an assumption that a country would only launch one or two missiles. They didn't expect, you know, 40, 50, 100. um you know in the ear early days you know fe February 28th, March 1st, 2nd, 3rd. Yeah. Iran was firing a lot more missiles but they were older missile varieties and they were firing him for the explicit purpose of depleting the US inventory because they don't they don't have an unlimited inventory and the the they cannot produce Patriot missiles and THAAD missiles in larger quantities overnight. It's the the system is not it wasn't automated. It was design sort of designed to be built by hand in order for those for Loheed Martin to make more money off of the contract. Candidly, uh, and there there there's some u there are some people out there claiming that I, you know, I don't know what I'm talking about. Well, you know, they're they're entitled to be stupid, but all you got to do is it's it's not a great secret. The Department of Defense with the Congress proposes a budget and the budget gets funded and then that are line items about for THAAD missiles and for pack 3es. So you you know you know what the basic cost is and you can calculate how many missiles are being produced. you there's no great secret. This isn't like some highly classified information. Now, they do want to keep it quiet what their actual uh inventory is, but I you know, you can't you can't deploy and use these missiles as they have been in Ukraine and Israel and then claim, oh, yeah, we we got ample supplies. No, they don't. They're stripping um they're stripping missiles out of uh the Indopaccom Command, you know, used to be called Pacific Command, but that means uh with respect to dealing with China as a threat.

Larry Donald Trump was asked if he's ready to declare victory. He said that he's not ready to declare that. And even though what is the timeline on the part of the United States? How do you see your expectation is the next three weeks that going to be the the peak of the war? Because it it's turning the war is turning into a war of attrition.

Oh, it >> as you mentioned. And as time goes by, Iranian official yesterday we had, you know, the foreign minister of Iran having an interview in he he had an interview saying that Iran is not asking for ceasefire. He's not asking for negotiations. Even those enrich uranium that were part of the discussions before, they're not anymore on the table to discuss with anybody. And here comes the question to the many people are asking if Iran feels somehow comfortable and they they feel that they can they're confident about their capabilities to fight this war as time goes by and doesn't matter how long does it takes but on the part of the Trump administration do you see any sort of wisdom that what is the end for them what is the achievement and way when what are the main objectives to be achieved during the war that is happening.

>> Well, the they're they didn't define that very clearly at the outset. Uh I think they were b banking heavily on uh and I'll I'll call them rumors but the reports that General Ismile Khani who is head of the IRGC >> that Kani was actually a secret intelligence asset of MSAD and MSAD had convinced the United States that hey we got this we got this general uh who's a one cooperating informant and if we simply kill the rest of the leadership he can step up to take the lead and he's got the IRGC he'll be able to command them and we'll be able Iran will fall that was I think that was the plan um you know again if these reports are true but I think they are u so once that fell apart once you know Connie was discovered and and executed uh then the the entire plan of the regime change and and the new under new leadership of the IRGC that's cooperating with Israel and the United States that disappeared and they didn't count uh the Trump administration reportedly ignored the warnings that uh Iran was quite capable of shutting down the straight of Hormuz and would do so. Um, I'm not sure how far they went in warning about Iran's counterattacks on attacks on US military facilities. Uh, but I'm pretty sure that they brief were briefed and warned about that as well. And then we we simply do not know how much uh how many missiles Iran actually has in its inventory. Um, you know, this, uh, someone I once considered a friend was saying that, you know, I was, you know, making some of this stuff up, but, you know, I'm not. Uh, we've seen the images of the missile cities, these underground cities, the literally hundreds of miles of tunnels where weapons where these munitions are stored and produced. And I maintain that uh that alone prevented the United States and Western intelligence from getting a good account about how many missiles Iran actually has. All we know is they continue they've fired now over 52 waves of missiles. You know that just wave after wave. You know that's they're averaging about three and a half four missile waves per day. That doesn't strike me like somebody who's running out out of missiles, number one. So, you've got this um you have uh the United States miscalculating on that front. And uh they they also didn't count on the fact that all of their their military installations in the Persian Gulf are being destroyed piece by piece. Uh so uh I I think Iran's demands will be you know in fact they've started to confirm this uh reparations repair the damage done to Iran lifting of all sanctions expulsion of UI US military personnel from the from their bases in the Persian Gulf. And you know, at the same time, uh, it looks like, you know, Iran may actually be doing a favor for the the people of the global south by destroying Dubai, destroying the United Arab Emirate. that that is one of the most shameful regimes on the earth today in terms of the economic exploitation they do of phil Filipinos and other Asians that uh have come to uh the UAE to work in in as slaves. Their passports are confiscated. They are kept there kept in inhuman conditions. And then you got all these extremely wealthy people who've been, you know, using it as Satan's playground. You know, they claim to be an Islamic country, but they're not. They vi they violate every tenant of Islam. And the war is actually starting to, you know, force all those extremely wealthy people to get the hell out because it's not safe. And um so it is it's bringing a form of justice in that regard.