Transcription
[Music] [Music] Hello and welcome back to Writing with Witches podcast, where you get to write with not just two witches this time, but three of us. My name is Leona Orbansky. Uh, I have a novel coming out early 2026, and I'm a witch. And my co-host is...
>> I am Nicole Autumn. I have three books published, um, called My Secret Society series. Um, and the third book, full novel, should be coming out hopefully the end of this year. And we have a special guest with us who is also a witch, an author, and an artist. So, if you would like to introduce yourself.
>> Yes. My name is Alex Piper, and I'm the owner, um, of Alex Ariel and Design, and I am an illustrator. And I've been lucky enough to meet these lovely ladies, and I've been doing illustration work for them, which has been super awesome, which is how we met. And then we realized when they were sharing their podcast that I'm also a witch, and it was just so coincidental and awesome. So, it's been great.
>> You have to be...
>> Yeah.
>> Yes. So, this podcast, one of the reasons that we have Alice on here is we are talking about book cover design. So, we're all very excited because there is a lot of fun. I know the last couple of podcasts, I've mentioned Alex and her work on my book cover, and it's done, and I'm so excited for you guys to see it. So, you have to sign up for the next Substack that's going right into my book news. Um, I just sent out my last latest Substack with the second of the concept art. And so next month's for which will probably be when this episode is airing in September, I will be sending out the third, um, Substack, which will have the final cover design on it.
>> Yay.
>> I am so excited to see this. Leave it to me to just whack my camera.
>> A joy.
>> Excited too, guys.
>> Yeah, I'm just like whacking off the table. I'm sorry.
>> Um, and I'm getting back into the fire magic revisions, as you can tell by the boxes. I'm in a new location. This is the official new background for the podcast, for on my end, anyway. Um, I've slowly started unpacking, as you can tell from the small things. Yeah, the shipping guys decided to put put my wig on top of my mannequin. It's like shrink-wrapped, and I just haven't been able to bring myself to take it off yet because it's so freaking funny.
>> That is hilarious.
>> I didn't want to just put the wig on it in like the robe, and it's just this person standing behind me. I can like dress it up for Halloween. Anyway, um, that's all the book. So, I'm going to get back into fire magic revisions now that we're back in the house, in the new house. So, that's on my book news. Nicole, I think you kind of already gave your book news.
>> Um, I mean, yeah, I am working on revisions, and I am now on chapter six of revisions. So, slowly but surely, it is coming along because this last two weeks, my kids have gone back to school, but my youngest is still with me. So, writing has kind of come to a halt because I no longer have my older children to keep my youngest one...
>> ...occupied.
>> So, I've been doing that until she starts school on Tuesday. So, hopefully, come Tuesday, I can fully jump into revisions and, hopefully, just get through it a lot faster than, you know, a chapter a freaking week. Um, and then hopefully, it'll be coming out at the end of this year. So, yeah, that's all I got.
>> So, I didn't know Alex, if you wanted to tell us, we kind of jumped through your intro. If you wanted to tell us a little bit more about yourself and if you wanted to share anything about your design studio.
>> Yeah. Um, right now, I just finished up my packages on my website, so they should be available to start booking for September, which is super exciting. And then, um, we'll have more. I'm finishing up a raffle giveaway right now, but we'll have more things coming. I'm hoping at least for like fall, and especially for October, I do like a discount or something fun, like a giveaway for anyone who has like cottage core or like cozy book vibes for the season. So, those can get released. So, fun things to look forward to.
>> Nice. Yes. And if you uh join in my Kickstarter when I get it kicked off, then Alex is going to be doing a lot of the little design sticker work for me. So, if you like her artwork, another reason to jump join the Kickstarter when I get it started.
>> Yes, I'm very excited with. I've been putting together all the little pieces for your Kickstarter and like all the ideas and putting them all together. I'm just...
>> ...We just need to do a deep dive and go over all like merchandise and boxes. Gets me so excited. I talk to my husband about it all the time. He's like, "It's some stickers in a box, I guess." I'm like, "But you don't get it." It's like really exciting.
>> I totally get it.
>> I just don't get it.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> So, we can now hop into book covers. And there's typically three, I would say most often you see three different types of book covers, right? You have photo manipulation, which is what I do. I tend to just mess around on Shutterstock and just throw a bunch of fun stuff with filters and effects. So, that is one option that you can use for your book cover. Another one, which would be hand-drawn, which are really beautiful if you can get your a nice artist to do it for you. And then you also have graphic art designs, which is more like the words with the fun like flowers and vines behind it that you typically see in...
>> ...Yeah. Like the fantasyesque books that you see nowadays. So, yeah, I'm going to kind of speak on the hand-drawn a little bit. And while graphic artist is definitely, there's definitely hand drawing in there. Specifically, what I was referring to with this is like the old-school romance covers that were like the beautiful watercolors that were literally drawn on canvas before they were digitally scanned in for the print, or some of the old fantasy covers. Um, Donato, I told myself to look up his name before this podcast, and I forgot again, so I'll put it in yetis. Um, does some really beautiful stuff. He's done some, um, I know him from the Green Rider series, and he's done some beautiful, um, oil paintings. So, specifically when we're talking about, or I'm talking about hand-drawn, that's that's what I'm referring to. That's what I grew up with with the fantasy genre. And, um, fun fact, the very first book cover that I ever commissioned for Fire Magic, before I knew it was called Fire Magic, back in the early '00s, was done by hand, and it was a black and white, uh, ink drawing. And I still have it. It's framed and matted, and it's going to go right next to the one that Alex designed for me once I get hers printed. So, they're beautiful, but they are expensive. So, if Alex, if you wanted to talk about the graphic artist side of that.
>> Yeah. Well, now, I mean, I wish it was more popular to have beautiful like hand-painted art, which is is rare, and I love and appreciate, just like you do. Um, but now, a lot of everything is digital. That's a lot of what I do is the digital painting, um, on Photoshop and things like that. And kind of along those lines, I think artistically, you see more of like, um, not as fully painterly illustrated, but maybe some like concept art pieces. A lot of romance books lately have been like that, like the Ali Hazelwood books and things, um, are just like cute sketches, I'd say, that don't have that much depth as in like color depth, um, kind of flatter images, but are very popular. And then you can go like all the way to like the Priory of the Orange Tree series, which is like fully decked out, insanely detailed art. So, there's a whole spectrum of what you can get when it comes to like the artistically crafted, um, covers and things like that. They're really, really fun. And then, like you're saying, Nicole, we have the photo manipulation, which is an artwork of itself. Um, I feel like in my head, there's like two sides of it. There's like, I guess the left side and the right side of your brain, if you will, but I don't know how accurate that is. Um, but it takes like a whole different skill and craft to be able to do that as well. And I've loved your book, Circle, for for that, and your your beautifully sculpted men on there. Um...
>> ...yeah.
>> But, uh, yeah, so that's like a whole other aspect to the artist being able to take different pieces and combining everything to make one cohesive piece. Um, which is also very, really popular. One that I've also loved recently is The Knight in the Moth. Very, very cool. Half of it is like, like a knight in shining armor type of vibe, and then half of it, she's like in this dress, and she's like floating in water, which is really fun. So...
>> ...yeah, that cover is beautiful.
>> Real quick on it.
>> I, I don't value the graphic art stuff any less than I do the hand-drawn. To me, they are both beautiful in their own right, and I personally will not compare the two because it is, to me, like apples and oranges. They're they are different ways of art, and they both are beautiful in their own right. So, just say...
>> ...yeah.
>> For sure. So, when deciding your book covers, you have a few things that you need to consider. First off is your budget. Are you trying to make your book cover as cheaply as possible because you really don't have a budget? You are doing this as either a side hobby, or you just, like I said, don't have that budget. So, you have to decide, are you going low-end, or are you going high-end? Where I feel like photo manipulation is probably going to be your closest on the low-end of the budget scale because you can get, you know, a monthly subscription to a lot of these places like Shutterstock, Istock, for $30 a month, and you can get, you know, a handful of images. I think for Shutterstock, it's 10. I'm not entirely sure about photo, but you get those 10 images for that month, and you can, you know, if you're selective, you can make an entire cover out of those 10 images that you're allowed. And that's $30 if you get like their monthly subscription, or if you're spending just per piece, it gets more expensive. But then you have the high-end where you know you are getting those hand-painted, which I wouldn't even want to know how much those cost because I could not afford them. Or you have the middle of the road where you could hire someone like Alex and, you know, pay a couple hundred bucks to have an entirely custom-made cover and all the little extra bits, and it's just as beautiful. So, price is definitely the biggest one, I would say, or one of the first things you have to consider before deciding on a cover.
>> And another option to kind of throw in there, and it's from a couple of Facebook groups that I've been on, is there are some studios out there that make these, um, pre-formatted book covers that you can, if you see one, you're like, "Oh, hey, that fits my story." You can go in and purchase that cover for your use. Although, as Alex has reminded me, make sure you're reading the fine print on those so that you are purchasing. And really and truly, this is something you should be reading the fine print on if you contract with anybody about this kind of thing, is making sure you're getting the original copyright for the work that you're going to be using so that it can't be used again for someone else's use. I think that's probably a little more fuzzy when it comes to the photo manipulation because you're kind of combining it to make into a new original artwork.
>> Yeah.
>> I'm I'm fuzzy on that, um, type of thing. But when it comes to doing that, like actual commission work, or the pre-made book covers, I think it's important. Even, even when I commissioned it like 20 years ago, I paid extra to make sure I had the original copyright for that cover, so that's why I can still use it.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah, for sure. Usually with like the subscription that you're saying, Nicole, is, um, you're kind of purchasing the licensing.
>> Yeah.
>> To have the image for yourself. So, that's like why it costs so much sometimes, um, is because you're just purchasing that license to be able to use it however you see fit. One thing I do want to say, um, that I just remembered, is the Met, like art gallery, um, and also the Smithsonian has open access work that you are able to download and use. It's free, and you can use any pieces of art. That's a lot of the things that I do for my website. You've seen, like, I love certain art pieces, and they're on there, and I've been able to use them without any licensing issues because they're open access, so free to use. You can download them, and then you'll have awesome artwork as well from there.
>> That's actually a really good suggestion because I didn't even think of that.
>> Especially if there's like a certain piece that you really love, you know.
>> Yes. Yes. There's a one piece, I forget who the artist is, but it's, um, really popular. It's of the ballet. It's on my homepage, but it's of these girls dancing ballet, and it's, it's always been one of my favorite. And when I saw that that it was available for use, I I downloaded it really quickly. But yeah, you can use that. And then again, Smithsonian has it. Um, which is really cool because you can, with Canva and different tools nowadays, you can remove the background really easily. So, then you can manipulate that PNG however you want to as well.
>> Nice. A shameless plug as well, if you would like to see more really beautiful photo manipulation work that Nicole has done besides her book covers, she's been making the little logos for our short stories when they go out.
>> So, yeah, I, I have been playing around quite a bit with Shutterstock and just putting together quick little short story like covers, banners, or whatever. But yeah, so I'm getting some more, some more practice with it.
>> I'll have to pick your brain about it.
>> Yeah, I am definitely getting better at it. It, it's taken time, but I'm not the best by any means. There are some people that can do some crazy stuff, and I'm not there. But the next consideration...
>> ...time.
>> Uh-huh.
>> I was gonna say, but speaking of time...
>> ...speaking of time, yes, is how much time you have available to get your artwork done for your covers, right? You can go on the low end. Again, probably the photo manipulation would be one of the fastest routes where you have to wait a few months for, you know, a digital artist to do their art, or if you are doing the expensive hand-painted route, that is all up in the air on how long that would take. Some artists can get things done in a few months, where others, it could take them six, seven, eight, even a year. I mean, some artists are very particular, and they want it to be exactly how they want it, with obviously the, um, your input with what you want, but, you know, artists do their own thing, and sometimes that time is a huge consideration.
>> Especially if they're booked out or busy.
>> Yeah.
>> That might apply as well. I remember we were talking about the Elizabeth Ash books with the Elven Heartbound, and we were both really loving the covers that she was putting out. And I'll have to send you pictures of those, Alex, so you can see what we're talking about. It's an artist called Lulybot, and I actually went hunting her down on Instagram, and she was just commissions were completely closed, um, not taking anything. And I don't know if Elizabeth Ash had just booked her out that far in advance, or if that had just gotten enough popularity from other people because I, I know Ash has like booked her for multiple character arts because she's just been churning out artwork after artwork after artwork on her social media pages, um, because her her story lines have multiple couples. So, she's getting character art for each couple, and he just keeps seeing more. And so she just, I think she just reserved Lilybot for life or something.
>> That's awesome.
>> Hey, if you have a good relationship with your artist, you know, it, it could be a good give and take, and they just keep you busy, you know? That's always nice.
>> Yeah.
>> Sure.
>> So, another thing to consider when looking at your book covers is you can see what's going on trends, right? We've all seen, you know, the covers that have the sword and the skulls and the flowers, and that was very popular, and I would say is still kind of popular right now among some romanty authors. They really gravitate towards that, or like Alex has mentioned, you know, with Ali Hazelwood's like 2D designs, I've seen more of that coming up on certain covers. So, you can look at the trends, you know, and decide, do I want to go along with that if you like a particular style? Or you can be that person like me, that puts the half-naked men on the covers, and people are like, "I don't like that." But I write romance, so I'm going to put half-naked men on my covers.
>> I don't see how you can not like that.
>> Right? I just feel like that's...
>> ...that just goes with the romance genre, since Fabio, right? Like he's always been like...
>> ...shirt wind blown and things are showing, like the half...
>> ...the reason why it works.
>> Yes. You know, it works.
>> It works. So, you could be the odd one out and say, "You know what? I don't want to follow the trends. I want to do my own thing and pick whatever you want." You know, as Leona says, I know your cover is like super nostalgia, like old-school fantasy look, and I love that. And I wish more fantasy authors did that because it makes your book more unique, and it stands out instead of just, you know, the skulls, roses, and swords. They're wonderful titles of...
>> ...Oh.
>> ...yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.
>> I was just gonna say, their titles, it's always a Court of Something and Something Y...
>> ...and Something.
>> ...and Something.
>> Yep.
>> Or the trials, or something. Queen...
>> ...Queen. Queen of Something and the Court and the Something and Something.
>> Yep.
>> Yeah.
>> There's a hundred of them.
>> Um.
>> Yeah. What I'm always going to say though, and this is kind of becoming my second soapbox right next to the other one, is do what feels right for your book. Like, I'm not saying don't not look at trends to see what's out there. And, you know, maybe that trend is something that really drives with you and your book and its synopsis. Me, it didn't. So, I went with what I felt portrayed my book the best. Um, I know Nicole did the same thing with her photo manipulation covers because right now, that is not the trend for romantis romance books right now because it has been going into that more abstract type art than the actual people on the cover. So, you know, it's, it's look at the trends, see what's happening. If that jives with you, great, go with it. But, and I think it was Alex that said this to me the other day, um, if you are going with those friends, it could just, or maybe it was Nicole, I don't know, one of you. Um, your book could get lost in the crowd. So, you know, make sure that you're representing what you feel your book should portray to the potential readers.
>> Yeah. And they say don't judge a book by its cover, but I think that's inaccurate because I think you should sometimes.
>> We all judge a book by the cover.
>> Yeah. It entices you. It draws you in. It's the first thing that people are going to see, and it's the thing that they're going to be carrying around, and it's going to be, "Oh, that girl has that one book that I've been seeing all over. I saw it on her desk." And you recognize it instantly, and it builds that trust and that branding. And so, it's very important to just to pick something that works for your book and ties in. You want to make sure it definitely sings that song. Otherwise, it is it's not going to fit right, and it's going to give the reader kind of feel, it's going to make the reader feel lost in it, of like, "Okay, well, I was kind of promised something on the cover, and now it's not really delivering that." So, you want to make sure it fits that vibe. And then just because it's a trend doesn't mean it's going to match your book.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've been part of the Green Rider series community by Chris and Britain for 20 years because I happened to be walking through a Walden Books RIP and saw this book with a horse running on it, and I'm a horse girl, and I was like, "Oh, horse." I picked it up, and I've been reading this series since the late '90s. So...
>> ...wow.
>> Yeah.
>> And I think that would also be a consideration too. You mentioned your branding, right? Are you, what, who I would say considering your brand and your audience, right, is also a consideration with your covers because if you're writing dark romance, and you put a cartoon cover on it, like something like Icebreaker, wow, that's going to be a shocker, you know? And that's going to reach the entirely wrong audience. So, that would also be something to consider is audience and branding. What kind of brand are you trying to put out as an author? Are you going to be more fantasy and hand-drawn covers and like very nostalgic fantasy, or is it going to look gritty and, you know, like forbidden because you are doing forbidden romances or dark romances? Or if you're a mystery writer, you know, sci-fi, what does your branding look like as well as your audience? You know, you're not going to market and have book covers with half-naked men on it if it's meant for a younger audience, you know? Or you're not going to have those cartoon covers if it's meant for an audience that's 30 plus. So, consider those things as well when you are deciding on your cover and what you want it to look like.
>> Sure. And also, like with branding, if you're writing series, that's very important to make sure it's like cohesive. But it's going to be like, okay, if I'm going to be writing a trilogy, this first book is going to take a few years. Second book, you know, by the time the third book comes out, it could be five years down, however long, you know? But it's going to be like, okay, by then, is this going to be a trend that I'm going to be able to make sure that my trilogy looks cohesive and still reaches my audience and makes them be like, "Okay, this is a cool new book," or is it going to be like, "Hey, that was so five years ago." So, you want to make sure that your branding can be cohesive and trustworthy throughout either your series, or if as an author you decide, "Hey, I want to make sure that all my books look a certain way so that way my readers know exactly, hey, that's so-and-so's book." Um, it's kind of like working those ideas because sometimes those trends work now, but they might not last very long, and you might have to change everything later down the road, which is a lot more work.
[Music] One series I can think of that's really consistent with the branding you're talking about is Anna Lee Huber's uh uh murder historic murder mystery books, the Lady Darby books. And every discover is the main character, Lady Darby, standing with her back to you, looking at something on, away from you, whether she's looking across the block or into the castle, or just at the painting that she's working on. So, you never see her face, you just see the back of her head with her hair up. Um, but, you know, every single cover, and I'll, I'll put some in the editing. So, those of you who are watching it on video, if you can see some of these covers, they, while they're all different, they are still very consistently branded. You know that's a Lady Darby book.
>> Yeah.
>> Great example. So, after you decide what you are looking for, then you kind of have to decide what type of design you actually want on your cover. Are you going to do the more logo designs, like, um, oh my gosh,
>> ...the black. There's that one, and then the other one that's really popular, the...
>> ...Ber and Blackbird. There we go. Where it is very just too, like, block color block, almost with its design. So, it is more logosesque instead of, you know, the drawn out or the photo manipulation. Are you going to have the half-naked man on your cover, regardless of what people say? Um, or are you going to do scenery that is giving your readers a taste of the setting of your book? So, those are things now that, okay, you've thought about the price, you've thought about all of those things, what are you putting on it?
>> And I think one thing to consider in that is also what genre you're writing in. So, like, if you're doing the murder mystery, you know, the typical, the hand falling out from behind the head, but behind the bed, not the head, um, with the pool of blood around it.
>> No, that's the romant, um, or, uh, the romance. We'll go with that. The swooning woman and falling into the arms of the half-naked man, or...
>> ...those are the two biggest genre ones that I can think of because my brain just got totally derailed by that slip of the tongue. But it's definitely something to consider about. Again, don't put yourself into that box, but, you know, if it fits your book and it fits what you're trying to say with the cover of your book, there's no reason not to utilize what will make people recognize that that's what your book is.
>> For sure. I personally, when I'm coming up with designs for clients and things, I love getting a little bit of everything, saying, "Okay, what is the genre? This is a horror genre. Well, we need to have darker colors. We need to at least maybe have that color scheme. Maybe we don't have to have the imagery, or maybe we do." But kind of looking at it and saying, "Okay, what does the genre offer? What things do I like about it?" Picking and choosing a few things. That way, it's not like fully just exactly what the genre says, and you can't stray from that. Just picking a few things and then saying, "Okay, what kind of cover do I want to have? Do I want to have text-heavy? Do I want to have the photo manipulation?" And then playing around with that and saying, "Okay, this really drives with my book. This goes with my story." And then just picking little bits everywhere to combine something that is unique and new that maybe people haven't seen before, but is recognizable being like, "Hey, that sci-fi book has an alien on it that's easily recognizable for what I'm trying to go for." Um, so I don't think you should, like, I think the whole theme of our, the podcast tonight has just been, you don't have to stick with anything, but work with what makes your book unique.
>> Yeah. I would I would agree with that.
>> It never hurts to look at what's happening and to look at the potential directions you have to go. Just don't let yourself get peer pressured into doing that if that's not what you think you should do.
>> For sure.
>> Society peer pressure. Yeah. So, that would now bring us to our witchy tip of the evening, which we are all at various stages of our witchcraft journeys. Um, I've been practicing for 10 years now. Holy, a whole decade. Um, um, but our topic is how to get started, right? And, um, I would say first step would be deconstruction because everything you think you know is probably skewed or biased from where you came from. Um, which I know I'm pretty sure all of us at, if I'm recalling, we all had come from Christian backgrounds, right?
>> So, we all heard, "Oh, well, if you do witchcraft, you're going to hell," right? And like all of these little things that we were told. So...
>> ...breaking down those old belief systems is probably going to be your first step so you can really start branching out to learn what is actually witchcraft and not what you've been told, because most of it was wrong.
>> Most of it, I'd say, was wrong. But I think the biggest thing for me, um, like transitioning from that and deconstructing, was there was like the obvious things, like with having a god and stuff. Like, I, I don't believe in that. Um, we're atheists now. So, like leaving that, that was like a big obvious thing of like, "Oh, like I deconstructed that, of sorts, if you will." But I think what's been harder for me is kind of these like cookie-cutter ideas of how things are supposed to work has kind of shifted for me. And realizing, like, "Hey, that's not necessarily how people process things, and that's not necessarily something that you..." Like, right now, I'm working through, um, feeling worthy of things. And that's a big thing in Christianity, like feeling worthy of God's love, you have to do X, Y, and Z. So, a lot of times I'll be like, "Okay, to be able to have what I need or to feel a certain way, I have to feel worthy. So, I have to do X, Y, and Z." And it kind of transitioned into like different rituals that I've been doing that are like my witchy rituals. But I'm like, "Okay, wait. I see that there's a pattern here. I need to like remove that." And so that's been a big thing for me is realizing that those patterns really, really stick in your subconscious, and it's really hard. So, for the longest time, I'm like, "Oh, I've I've deconstructed. I've gotten rid of all those big ideas." You know, and I've changed it, and I have new ideas, but it's those patterns of behavior that I'm still working through. And every time one comes up, I'm like, "Dang it, I thought I was over this. I can't believe I'm back in this trap." Like, it's, but yeah, so that would be one tip is just to be aware and to ask a lot of questions and be like, "Why am I doing this?" That's definitely fair.
>> Yeah, I think...
>> ...getting to know yourself is definitely, to me, a part of that deconstruction and a part of that shadow work because it's, in my experience, growing up in the Christian household, it was very much, "Bury all of the shadow and don't let it, my, be Elsa again. Don't let it show."
>> Um, except the wrong way this time. My thought instantly went to K-pop Demon Hunters of Hide Your Shame.
>> Yes!
>> I'm so glad you saw that. I, this is my favorite movie. I've watched it four times.
>> I love it. How much I've seen it.
>> We're seeing these songs on repeat. This is the only thing playing in our house right now.
>> Yep. We are all guilty of it.
>> I'm so glad. I found my people. I've been begging my sister to watch it. I'm so happy that you've watched it.
>> Oh my gosh.
>> Well, I think that I don't even need to explain what I was saying then because you will, you both get...
>> ...Yep.
>> ...you both get. But for the people that haven't seen it, you know, burying those parts of you that aren't, um, I guess, in a way, what Alex is saying, what we feel was worthy to show. And to me, that's a lot of what has been the shadow work for me as I've been moving forward in my witchcraft journey. And part of learning to know myself. And I think you have to deconstruct what you knew, what ca, what you know came from the outside before you can really start deconstructing what's in your head. And what, as Alex put it, it's so conditioned. And there's a lot of witchcraft that can help you with that if you're willing to look into it and admit it and find it. So, being willing to admit and look at all of yourself, and not just what you think you should be putting out there. Does that make any sense?
>> That's a pretty heavy tip.
>> Yeah. I mean, I, I've been there, and I think that is part of the deconstruction is being able to look at the darker side of yourself because we all have it. You know, some of us struggle with anger issues, or, you know, whatever the case may be, we are not perfect. And I think with Christianity, it was always the, "We have to look good because if not, that outside appearance is going to draw criticism from people." And if you were in the church, that is something big, right? You don't want to draw the criticism of those in your, I don't even know what it's called anymore. Uh, I don't know of your church, whatever they call it, I don't remember. Um, that outside appearance is everything, you know? So, being able to look at the darker sides of yourself and really evaluate that and why you are the way you are, which is a big one. Um, it's very heavy. And I've said it before, I've literally ended up on the back patio of my house drinking wine, crying, listening to music, and my family's all looking at me like, "Are you okay?" And I'm like, "No, I'm dealing with some stuff." So, that would also be part of the deconstruction of, you know, what you learned about yourself because sometimes we bury it so deep that it's just, we don't acknowledge it until it's spewing out of us. Um, but once you get past that, research the tagline of every video at this point, our catchphrase, do your research. Literally, a Google search can set you down the path of finding out what witchcraft really is and how it is. There is a lot of self-improvement in it, learning yourself, learning ways that you aren't relying on Sky Daddy, you know, that you have your own power. Um, and then, you know, if you choose to work with other entities, that they work with you. It is not a, "I'm going to give you everything for nothing in return." It is a working relationship. You know, you give, I give type of thing. So, yeah, research, lots and lots of research.
>> I think that was my speech.
>> I also would need to say this because I do know people out there. Just because you decide to become a witch doesn't mean you have to stop being a Christian. Just so you know. If, if you feel that that is still your calling, I know several Christian witches out there. Uh, that while I, in my headspace, can't reconcile those beliefs, they are able to. And that is not me trying to shame them or say they are wrong. That is just my personal headspace. I can't do it. They can. And I'm happy for them if that's what they want to do and if that's what they feel the need to do. I mean, they probably think I'm going to hell still because of I work with the deities I work with. But that said, just keep that in mind, too. But on the point that you did mention, you know, the Christian witch, I think from what I have learned through talking to Christian witches, is it's not so much that they follow the Christian religion as in the organized version of it. It's more so they follow like the teachings of Jesus and like the hymns and the the gospel of it. So, and I mean, if you look at the Catholic Church, goddamn, there is a lot of ritualistic stuff in there that is witchy as hell. I mean...
>> ...yes.
>> ...they are sitting there eating...
>> ...and they're like, "Oh, there's a witch." And you're like, "Actually..."
>> ...there's three fingers pointing back at you." Seriously.
>> I mean, they're literally drinking the blood of Christ, the body and blood of Christ, as I mean, if that isn't some witchy...
>> ...ritual.
>> ...yeah. Like, yeah, I could go down a whole rabbit hole on that one. So...
>> ...Oh, yeah. But yeah, there are Christian witches out there that do, you know, and there's, I think there's even some that are like specifically following like the Book of Enoch. So, there's like a whole other...
>> ...props to him for that.
>> ...practice on that whole end. I mean, I got a book on it, and it went over my head. I was like, "I don't know what the hell is going on." So, yeah, there's...
>> ...that's the thing that kind of like what I'm saying was like that cookie-cutter mentality of like, "Okay, there's a right way and a wrong way and being witchy." It's like, do your thing, dude. It's all individual. Just whatever feels good to you, whatever you're happy with, whatever can bring you whatever you need, you know, that do it. And I, that's what I love about it is like, there's no rule book. There's no right or wrong way. It's just whatever comes naturally to you is the way that you need to be doing it.
>> Yeah.
>> All that said, I agree entirely with all of you. But I do have to give props to the current Pope and the last Pope for the call-outs they've been doing over the past five or six years. Just saying.
>> That's fair. That's fair.
>> Yes.
>> 100%. I agree. So, with all that said, I would say that would probably be the best place to start, deconstructing and research before you jump into anything because there is a lot out there. There's a lot of information. I know when I started my journey, I was looking at every freaking website, every book. I went to the library. I went to used bookstores to find. I was trying to get my hands on every little bit that I could. Um, so that would be your first steps, deconstructing and a lot of research before you decide, you know what, this is for me, or you just, you may turn around and say, you know what, witchcraft ain't my jam. And that is okay, too. You know, maybe some other organized religion is for you. There's a lot out there. So, and I think once you do start researching other religions, you find, I don't know, it just, people change when they start looking at other people's religions more openly. So...
>> ...yeah, that's true.
>> I don't want to keep rambling on.
>> No, it's all legit, man. I just keep nodding because you're right.
>> Well, that's nice to know. Just stroke my ego a little bit. I thank you. I thank you. It's nice that someone notices. Um, so I guess if that is, anyone else have anything to say on the topic of where to start? Okay. I just don't want to cut anybody off.
[Laughter]
>> Um, so jumping back into book covers and book design. Um, I know Leona already mentioned this was considering your genre when looking at book covers. We t, I know we talked quite a bit about this, so we won't spend too much time on it, but yes, you know, you can look at your genre and pick different things. Like Alex mentioned, horror being like the very dark covers, more gritty, they're very artistic. I've noticed lately, it almost looks like they are these like gothic style paintings as covers, you know? The thrillers are always random ass objects, like a keyhole with an eye, or a bloody VHS tape, or just a random cabin in the woods. Um, so there are all these different things, and you can typically tell when walking through a bookstore, yep, that's your romantic section, or fantasy, that's your mystery, that's thriller. So, in genres, there are specific trends that you can choose to follow. Doesn't mean you have to, but typically genres, you can kind of tell based off of just books being put together. Like, yep, that's your thrillers, you know?
>> No, I mean, yeah, that's that, that sums it up to me.
>> Yeah.
>> I was like, I don't know if anyone wants to add anything.
>> Um.
>> So, yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Play around with it. Have fun. Do your research.
>> Yeah.
>> Like you said, what do you guys do? Do your research.
>> The tagline. Do your research. Yeah. Um, then when you are, say you're done with the cover, now you have to think about the technical bits of it, like where are you putting your title? Where are you putting your name at? The summary on the back. Is it going to be big, small? What's going there? Um, the spine, and you always have to consider that there is going to be a barcode at the bottom. So, make sure you remind yourself to leave space for that, or you're going to chop off your words on your back summary. I almost did that. Thankfully, I got a proof, and I was like, "Oh, those three sentences are missing words on it." So, keep that in mind as well. Or if, yes...
>> ...that's too much of a headache for you to pay someone to do it.
>> There's that truth.
>> Yes, that's exactly what I did.
>> Facts.
>> And even though people pay me to do that, it's still a pain in the butt. So...
>> ...yeah.
>> ...you definitely have to play around with it. And...
>> ...I mean...
>> ...get, make sure you copies.
>> Yeah. Yeah, definitely get more than one author copy and make sure you actually, you know, look at the author copy.
>> Um.
>> Yes.
>> And also keep in mind what, Oh, I was looking straight at you. You know?
>> I know.
>> Call her out.
>> Yep.
>> Um, also keep in mind what kind of cover, what kind of binding you're putting this cover on. Is it a paperback? Is it a hardback that's actually printed onto the cover itself, or are you doing, um, some kind of just, uh, plain hardback with a dust jacket on it, and your art is going to be going on the dust jacket? In that case, you need to make sure you're putting either even if it's just a line, and then having a solid color for the inside, uh, of dust jacket pieces, flaps, um, so that you're having everything organized and putting it all in the correct place. And again, you could just pay someone to do it for you, which takes a lot of effort off your plate. Um, but just keeping that in mind, that is, and especially like, I'm going to be printing two different versions of Fire Magic. I'm going to be printing a regular trade paperback. I'm also going to be printing the hardback with the dust jacket. And just for shits and giggles, I might be doing a mass market paperback size, if I can find a printer that'll do it, because nostalgia. Um...
>> ...y...
>> ...I was so mad when they told me they weren't going to make those anymore. Um, so just keeping that in mind, because, um, all of those sizes and types of bindings are going to affect, and also how thick is your book? That's going to determine the size of the title on your spine. I know Alex is sitting there looking at me waiting for me to finish her visit so that we can finalize the cover because we don't know how thick this book is going to be yet.
>> I'm just like preparing. I was like, I don't know if we're just going to make sure that it's fully covered.
>> Yeah. I'm gonna like put this up into Ingram Press and be like, "So, Alex," because to be fair, in notebook size, Fire Magic is about that thick.
>> In notebook size.
>> Oh my goodness.
>> Who's a thick boy?
>> Yeah.
>> She is a. Yes. So, we might be looking at a doorstop. Not going to lie. This looking more like...
>> ...like that.
>> ...not quite.
>> Very well. Might know. We might be at that point.
>> Thanks. Like...
>> ...depending on how I do with that.
>> Dick.
>> It's a, it's a doorstop, my lady. It's, it could very well be a doorstop.
>> I prepped for it. I'm like, whenever we can fit it. I don't...
>> ...you're like double mainten word.
>> ...like on.
new road. He's like, "Tell me when, tell me when." Oh, what? I'm going to start over. "Tell me when."
Yeah, so yeah, all of that said, just keep that in mind that you are, keep you are making sure that you, you may have to have multiple copies of your artwork so that you can upload it with each different version of the binding that you're doing. So, just keep that in mind. Don't, if you're doing it yourself, don't be like, "Okay, this is perfect for paperback. Upload it. Go do and just save over your paperback." No, do a save as so you have separate copies of the file.
You will have multiple copies.
Yeah, you have multiple copies.
Every copy.
Yeah. Every little minor adjustment you make will be another copy. If you move your title up an inch or half an inch, that's another copy. Different fonts, every copy for every font that you like. And I would say also, you know, asking other people's opinions because you want what is going to appease other people's eyes, not just yours. So getting that second opinion from, even if it is family, you know, just getting a, "Hey, what do you think about this book cover?" You know, I was surprised when I showed it to like my sister, who is not a big like reader of fiction. She does self-help books. So when I was like, "Hey, what do you think about this cover for like my very first, I think it was like Unbound?" I was like, "What do you think about this?" And the original cover that I had planned was a girl holding like, there was no person on it except hands holding magic. And she was like, "That's too generic. You need to do something different." Like, straight out the gate, she was just like, "No." And I'm like, "She might have a point." So asking people what they think and just getting some ideas. That doesn't mean you have to take them. Obviously, if you absolutely love the cover and you're like, "This is perfect. This is exactly what I want," then go for it. But it never hurts to get just some other opinions because they may point out something that you completely overlooked. I mean, Fiona has done it for me with almost every book cover I have made. I'm like, "Hey, what do you think about this?" And I just shoot her like three or four different covers. So, always ask other people because they may give you some feedback that you weren't expecting. And it does come down to those technical bits like your title and where you have your name and if you put like a little quote on the front. So, just keep that in mind as well. It never hurts to ask for a second opinion.
And speaking on feedback, and I'm going to speak from the perspective of a client. I'm sure Alex, you will have words to say as the perspective of the artist. Is make sure you are communicating with your artist. And if they are asking you, "What do you think of this?" Give them your honest opinion because they are looking for your feedback. They're not looking just for praise, which I'm sure they would still love and I still give it, but they are actually looking, "Do you want this smaller? Do you want this bigger? Do you, is this the right kind of like, I know we were, we discussed like how the magic was flowing on this on the cover and you gave me like four different options on that."
So try to step out of, if you were like me, out of your people pleaser mentality and not wanting to criticize someone. You're not giving them criticism, you're giving them the feedback that they're asking you for. So for sure, that's how you end.
I will speak this until the cows come home. I truly like, when I'm asking, I want to know, "How do you feel about this?" Like, at the end of the day, I can say as an artist, "Okay, this is what I think looks really good," but for you can be like, "I really hate it," and I want to know that. And if you're hiring somebody, you should definitely tell them. You should speak up as much as possible. I have Leona, you've been great giving me feedback and I've appreciated because I'm like, "Yes, she knows what I'm, I'm getting at. She knows where my, my head's at." And then there's people I'm just like, "Pulling." I'm like, "Please tell me something that you want. Like, I can't be picking everything. Like, you got to tell me what you want and colors. How do you feel about this?" So it's defin, you have to speak up if you want something specific. If you are totally okay just letting them do whatever they want to your cover, that's, I mean, that's your vibe. But definitely by giving feedback saying like, "This kind of isn't my favorite thing, but I'm not going to say anything." Always say something. This is your book. You're paying for it. You're going to be advertising for it. So it's very, very important to always speak up.
Yeah. I got nothing after that.
I got nothing after that too. Um, and I know you talked about book jacket, dust, dust jackets, you know, so making sure you leave those inside pieces for it and formatting, which that is always fun doing the formatting of your book covers because there is things like, you know, bleed lines and having space for them to cut it so nothing comes off. And there are templates. I know Amazon, for example, they give you a template of every size book that they print. You have to look for it on KDP, but they do have it available and go by their guidelines. If you are definitely going to print through them,
make sure you're looking at their guidelines carefully and that you are getting your cover to fit their specifications because I, I literally saw an artist, not an artist, an author the other day. They were having issues with their cover and like a part of it was chopped off. And then another person I saw where they said that their cover was too short and there was just like a small white sliver on their cover. So using things like, I know the one that I use is Bookbrush, that will help format to make sure everything is in line. There are things that you can use if you aren't paying someone to do it. There are, you know, you just have to look at book formatting, cover formatting, and they can give you the guidelines. So, depending on where you're printing and who you're going through, definitely look into that. It's tedious and it's annoying, but if you want your cover to look the best it's going to look, going by those guidelines and making sure everything fits nicely will come in handy. And that includes, you know, the dust jackets and stuff, too.
Yeah, I know. Spark does have templates too.
So.
Yeah. So use those printers.
Publishing places too.
Yeah.
And um, Barnes & Noble, that you can pay them to just print one copy of your book or if you have something you needed printed, you can get it in book format. They have it. Um, one thing that I try and do at least with my art is have it like different layers to it. So we, we do need to adjust for different sizes. It's not gonna stretch it or ruin the artwork overall, so it can look cohesive, but you definitely have to play around with it. And I'd say this because I've had to do this like a million times throughout my whole career is don't be so hard set on exactly what you're looking for because you're going to have to change so many different aspects and the font and the sizing and and do all sorts of things. So, you have to make sure it's fluid enough of a design to be able to accommodate that.
Yeah. On the topic of changing things, because we're talking about covers, also make sure that the font that you are using is not copyrighted because if you decide you want to go with the standard Times New Roman, good luck. Um, you can get sued if you use it. So, make sure that the actual fonts that are going on your covers and in your book as well are actually, you know, usable because you don't want to use something that is copywritten or, I think that's the right word. Um, so yeah.
Double check your fonts because you could come and have a nasty problem on your hand later on if you aren't using royalty-free fonts that people are not going to charge you for using. So that was just one that I thought off the cuff. So double check your fonts.
Yeah.
Yeah. Also, honestly, everything is copyrighted and licensed. Even as far as like, if you're designing your own cover and you're drawing it out on something like Procreate or Photoshop, the brushes that you use, if they're not fully licensed, the art doesn't matter if you drew it. And also, if it's recognized, you can have all sorts of legal problems. So, you have to license purchase everything, which is why it's so costly.
Yeah. I mean, I literally ran into this issue when I was doing the cover for my next short story. I wanted a photo of like a weeping angel that you would see in the cemetery and I found this really pretty photo and I'm like, "Oh my god, this is perfect," but it's for editorial uses only. So, that is another issue you could run across is the licensing for it. Sometimes you just cannot use it because I'm not doing a documentary or a non-fiction or article. I couldn't even use that photo if I wanted to and I paid for it because it's attached to a non-fiction piece. So, that is also something you have to keep in mind when you are doing things like photo manipulation or using the brushes. If you don't license it properly or you don't have the correct license because there are differences, um, you could run into issues with that as well with your covers, which stinks.
It's hard. Stinks.
So that would bring us to book reviews. Would you like to start? Do you have one, Leona?
I do. I do.
Um, so I promise this is, this is the last autobiography of a sexual assault victim. So, trigger warning. Um, sexual assault and um, child abuse. Child sexual abuse. Yeah. Continuous, continuous, whole page of trigger warnings here. Um, it is called Tears of the Silenced by Misty Griffin. It is an autobiography. Um, and it tells the story of the author who was raised by her abusive mother and stepfather in isolation and ended up getting almost bartered to the Amish community. Um, who wasn't quite as subjectively, uh, a bad a life as it was when she was isolated on the mountain with her mother and stepfather. But the more she saw and the more she experienced, she, she, and I'm not saying I'm not applying this generally to any kind of community, Amish community or otherwise. There are good, good people and bad people in every population, no matter who they are. Um, she did end up unfortunately encountering some of those people that you don't want to encounter while she was in the Amish community. She was able to get out of that situation. She ended up going to college. She became a nurse. She got married. Um, it was a really horrifying story. Um, not going to lie, I'm not going to go into details. But as I've said in the past couple of reviews about the sexual assault and um, those kinds of autobiographies, it is a story that should be told. And if it's something that you feel you can read without further traumatizing yourself, then I really suggest you pick it up and read it because I mean, it's, it's there in the title again, isn't it? Tears of the Silenced. You know, it's, it's being silenced again. And somehow this has become another point for me is, is we need to stop being silent about it. So, I'm going to keep it pretty short tonight. I don't want to get too detailed into it. Um, Tears of the Silenced by Misty Griffin. Definitely suggest picking it up. It is a very gripping story. And I'll be honest, I actually looked at, read it and I was, I was double-checking that it was factual because it was so insane. And it is. It's been published multiple times without any changes beyond, you know, grammatical stuff. And she removed some of the heavier, um, graphic descriptions to so to keep people safe from and me still being able to read it. Um, and she's actually talked about, she, uh, has been reached out to by a couple of the people that she knew that she mentioned in this, in the book, that they were able to get out and get to a safe place now. So, all of that combined tells me, while I didn't want to believe it's true just because of how horrifying it is, it is true. And so you can, you can lay that worry to rest. It's not a fiction book. Um, yeah, so Tears of the Silenced by Misty Griffin, I suggest reading it. That's, it's, it's a story that needs to be told.
Yeah. So.
I don't know what to say on that because that is such a heavy ass subject. It's, I feel like Bailey Sarian when she's laughing at uncomfortable things. She's like, "I'm not laughing because it's funny. I'm just uncomfortable." So.
Yeah. No, I, I'm trying not to laugh because of that. Very. I actually was watching Vegas early today. So yeah, I'm kind of in that headspace.
Yeah. It's like, "I'm not laughing because it's funny. I'm just uncomfortable." Um.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, I actually have a book review. Um, I finished Elvin Heartbound Season Two and it is very cute. If you love those cutesy romances where they are very innocent in their relationships,
I would say this is the book for you. If you like a slow burn cutesy romance that also has magic, elves, humans with, you know, two separate worlds of this steampunk type human world and a fantasy fae world. It's for you. Sweet heat indeed. Because there was, I was getting pissed, Leona. I don't know why you gave me this book. I was getting so mad because you're like, "Oh, just wait till they get to the treehouse scene." And I'm like, "Okay, something good's going to happen."
The treehouse scene.
And they just kiss and I'm like, "That's it? That's it?" And then every time.
Every time they get close to getting further, something interrupts them. I'm like, "I was about ready to throw the book across the room. I was like, 'God damn it, I need something. Please.'"
Yeah, the slers. I agree with you. Not.
Yeah.
For me, it just.
I was just like.
Give me something more than just a heated makeout session, please. I am not 16 years old. It is very cute. Don't get me wrong. The couples, you know, with Romny and El Eloin, it was, I feel like they were more of the adventure couple. There was a lot more going on with them that was more of those high stakes in certain aspects where the end I was just like, "Dear lord, now you're giving me something that is absolutely bananas and I want to keep reading," and it ends. So that definitely leaves on a cliffhanger with those two and you're just like, "What?" Um, and then, you know, you have Syrian and Arisa, which they, there was, they were moving a lot slower than Eloin and Romany, which I do like seeing the contrast in that. But there were at times where both relationships were almost dead-on exact pacing where they were like, you would look at one and they were like, "Oh my gosh, I think I'm falling in love with him or her." And then the next couple, it's literally the same thing in that chapter. "Oh, I think I'm falling in love with him." I'm like, it sometimes they almost exactly mirrored each other. And my only criticism I have was because this was a serial, the chapters are very short and I feel like Elizabeth Ash may have stretched some of the book longer than it necessarily needed to be because I'm pretty sure at one point it was with Arisa and Serion. They literally are talking about changing for four chapters and going into the forest. I'm like, "How long does it take to change into some leather outfits and go into the forest? This has been going on for four chapters now. Can we move on, please, from the outfits and getting into the forest?" So, that was my only criticism on that. And it was towards the end where I was chomping at the bit just to get a little bit more romance than just a steamy makeout. So, I was like, "Just give me something. I'm tired of reading about the clothes." Let's go. So, I'm like flipping through trying to get it and I'm like, "Come on. I don't want to know about his clothes. Take them off. I don't care. Something clothes."
There. Why are we even speaking of clothes? They should be naked at this point.
Um, so yeah, definitely Sweet Heat. If you like slow burn cutesy romances, you would love this. If you are a smut lover through and through, probably not the best book to pick up because you will get a little frustrated. In a good way. Like the writing was great. I loved it. It was so cute. And it's one of those wholesome love stories, but yeah, a part of me was just like, "Damn it, when are they going to bang?" So yeah, that was my book review of the second season of Elvin Heartbound.
It must not act. She, I'm not saying it's smut. I, I never said it was smut.
No, you said it was sweet heat. There was a little spice.
It is very mild spice.
But heat does go into them having sex. I mean, it's, it's romance metaphor stuff, but that must not be till the third season. I thought it was in the second. It's all blurred together because I've read it so long ago.
Yeah. No, it is. It has to be in the third season because every time it was like them cuddling in bed or kissing or in the hot spring kissing and then they get interrupted by something or it gets cut off because they leave the heart, heart landing and I'm like, "What?" Okay, now think about, think about as I was reading this on a weekly basis and I didn't have this chapter right there available to me. So.
I don't know how you did it because it is a serial.
Yes. And it's still going. It's on chap, season, season eight is starting this weekend. So.
Oh my gosh. I, I couldn't wait every week for that.
For a while.
Especially with how short some of those chapters were where it was like literally a page and a half and I was like, "This is not enough. This is not enough."
Yeah, she's great for having enough patience.
Traveling along.
Yeah. So.
Wow.
Do you have a book review by chance, Alex?
Yeah, unfortunately I do. I've been reading and I. Unfortunately.
I've been reading.
Don't say unfortunately. No, we're happy.
I have been such an emotional mess. I feel like my whole family has just been looking at me like, "Oh no, what's going on with her?" I finally picked up because I've put it off for a really, really, really long time. I picked up Zodiac Academy.
And. See, you're already laughing. You're already laughing at you. No, no, no. I'm not laughing.
She was reading it. I was reading it. I got to book seven.
That's why I was laughing.
Really?
That's all.
Yeah.
Recently?
Yeah.
I was not laughing at you.
Oh, no. It's fine if you. I thought you were laughing like, "Oh, I know your pain that you're going through." Because I am on book seven and I just don't think I can. I am so angry and frustrated, but she does a really good job at keeping you hooked. Usually, I'm like, "Okay, this is just a cliffhanger to keep me hooked. I'm not going to be interested." Like, you really have to do well to get me to get to the next book.
Yeah.
Because I'm like, I could, I could guess what's happening. But with Zodiac Academy, I can't guess what's happening because, you know, the first book, you're like, "This is the worst that it can get. Like, how could it get worse than this?" And then it does and you're like, "What? What?" And as soon as things are going well, good, and everybody's happy, she just like ruins all of your joy. And I finished the fourth book the other day and I was sitting on my bed like, blank stare. Like, I am so sad right now and my heart hurts and I, I can't, like, you can't get out of this like depressive episode until you read the next book, but then you're even more sad. So, it's been an emotional two weeks. I've been having them on audiobook while I draw and I work and I've been listening them at two speed because I'm like, "I need something to happen." But I've got through up to the seventh book and I, I might as well just Google the summaries at this point. I'm really close because it's, it's hard to get through. I didn't think that much of these books. I was like, "Oh, they'll just be like a fun read for me," and it has not been fun and it's emotional turmoil and I'm really upset. So.
Yeah.
That's where I'm at.
Yeah. So, Leona was laughing because that was literally my same complaint. I got to book seven and I was like, "You know what? I give up. I give up. Nothing good is happening. There is nothing that happens in these books where you're finally like, 'Oh my god, they're making progress.' It's just one thing after another." And I'm like, "Jesus Christ." And the fact that they're still fighting the same man. And I will say that.
The same man for seven books. And this is supposed to be a 12 book series. I'm like, I know what's going to happen. They're going to stretch this out until the 12th book and it finally comes to a head where they're fighting the main antagonist. And I'm like, "I can't read another five books to figure out how this is going to sol be resolved."
I can't. But I can't remember what the ending.
Huh?
I'm going to go read the summaries because now I need to like, I want to place like a $100 bet with you guys that one of the protagonists dies at the end of the last book.
Oh my god.
I'm never going to read the books, but I'm going to read the summaries just to see. And the thing is, I honestly wouldn't even make that bet because I'm pretty sure you'd be right. And if it wasn't.
I couldn't even tell you.
If it wasn't one of the main characters, it is going to be one of their love interests because one of them already has a death sentence on their head. Like, I, I feel like though with like things that I've seen on social media and stuff that I can't tell honestly if nobody dies or if.
Everyone dies.
Part of the group dies.
Everyone does.
I just, I don't know. And that's what's driving me nuts is usually I'm like, "Really good at being like, 'Okay, I can see where this is going. I can kind of guess the next step.'" And it kind of gives me like a balm of like comfort to get to the next chapter, but I truly have no idea what she's going to pull in the next chapter. And it literally is driving me crazy.
Yeah, it's, it is a freaking wild ride, let me tell you. Oh my god. I get why they're popular, but I just, I don't think I can do it emotionally. It's been rough.
So, book four, was that when it ends with Orion and Darcy in the cave?
Yes.
Oh my god, I bawled my eyes out in the car when that ended.
I was crying. And and she ends the book on Darius and Tori with being the star-crossed lovers. So they'll never be together and Orion dies. And I'm just like.
That didn't happen all at once.
I thought I was like crying and I was like, "I, I don't know what I need right now. I'm just so sad."
Yeah. I was literally, I think I was driving to go pick up like takeout and I was on my way home. I was like, "No, it can't end like this. This is not right." Like, I was so upset. I'm like, I was a freaking mess. I got home and I literally ranted to my husband crying and he's like, "What the? You just went to go pick up Taco Bell or something? Like, why are you coming home? Like, your dog just died? Like, why are you a mess?" And I'm like, "You don't understand. This is so sad. I was, I was a mess. Oh my god. Yeah."
Yeah. The whole thing.
It was awful. 100% awful.
And once I got to the seventh book and there was no progress, I was like, "I give up. I can't. I can't keep going."
No, that's, no, that's where I'm at right now. I'm just like, "I can't do it. I have to focus on my life because I can't keep reading this." So, I'm probably just going to look it up.
Yeah. So, we'll just, we'll just have this running bet that the ending, I'm, I am almost guaranteeing it's not going to end. The main antagonist is not going to die until the 12th book because there's supposed to be 12 and they're on book nine. So, and it pisses me off how many times I got this freaking close to killing that so and then something.
Makes me so mad.
I'm just like, "You know what? At this point, just accept that everybody's going to die and just die trying to get rid of him. I don't know. Like."
Yeah.
"Just sacrifice."
I haven't even read the books and I'm just like, "Just sacrifice."
Kill them all. Just, at this point, kill anybody that needs to be killed.
It's, it's funny because you never hear people say in books like, "Oh, I want characters to die because it is awful when that happens." But at this point in this book, you're just like, "Will someone just take the bullet so this person can just be done because I'm so sick of hearing about them?"
And that's like how I felt in that book. And I truly, I'm like, there is absolutely, each book that I've read, I start at the beginning like, there is absolutely no way that this could get worse. Like, this is like the arc. This is like, we're going to resolve everything and get better and like move forward. And I feel like more and more things keep happening to everybody that is like even more and more terrible. And I'm like, "How can we keep going down this road? How is this possible?" And also, nothing is resolved. I don't understand. And they're all still fighting about the same stuff. They're like, "No, I'm going to be the ruler." And it's like, "You're still on that, dude? You're still on that?"
Are you serious right now?
Yeah.
We can't have this conversation one more time.
I know. Oh, especially with Darius and Tori. Oh, I love you so much. I'll do anything for you. I'll sacrifice my life for you. Oh, but you can't have my throne. Like, the.
You were raised for that. It's like, "Stop being such a brat."
Right. Oh my god, it is annoying. It is so annoying. I, yes, 100% agree.
I feel like I need to just go read the summaries of these books now just so I can be like.
Only the summaries to get to this.
Oh, I'm not planning on reading them. No more.
I mean, the two of you.
If you were to read it, you'd probably be able to read them so fast because you are like a speed reader. But yes, don't put yourself through the emotional turmoil and torture. It's, it's a roller coaster ride and it is not a fun one. It's like, damn, dumpster fire ride.
At least she gets to like some of their romance though. That's the only thing. Like, they're, they have some smut and I'm like, "Okay, I appreciate that that you're not leaving me hanging."
Yeah. And then the next chapter, I'm really, really pissed that you did this. I mean, so I don't know.
Yeah.
So, you're going to laugh at me because you've read Fire Magic. Is if I know a book is going to one, not have a happy ending, and two, have a cliffhanger, I'm not going to read it.
Don't read. Yeah.
This is cliffhanger, cliffhanger after cliffhanger after cliffhanger. It never ends. It's like, oh my god.
Hey, seriously, if like, honestly, in a trilogy, I'm like, maybe, you know, maybe one cliffhanger, that's fine. Just resolve it and like, let's get on with our life. But like, every single book, I just don't know what is going on in her head.
Like as an author, I want to like nitpick it and be like, "What? Tell me like, how did you come up with this?" But also at the same time, I'm just like, "Really mad at her." So I don't know. Plus, some of the things that happen are just so freaking bizarre. You're like, "Out of everything, this is what we choose."
What?
Right. There's a lot of options. And this is a really odd one.
Yeah. That that is, there were choices made. That's for sure.
Yeah.
Uh, distinct choices.
So.
Yeah. So, that's why I said at the beginning like, unfortunately, yes, I do have a book review. Um, it's been torturous. So.
That's fair.
Well, these book reviews tonight have been a gamut.
Oh, yeah. We had a sad one, a happy one, and just absolute dumpster fire. So, there you go. And that's reading summed up in a nutshell.
Yeah. No, you're right. I agree.
Exactly. So that would bring us to the end of our episode and now it's just where you can find us. So I have taken the liberty of making link trees for the podcast, for myself, for Leona because there are a whole host of things. We are on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Blue Sky, and we have a Discord group all at Writing with Witches. We have a website, which is writingwithitches.com. You can email us at writingwithitches@gmail.com and I'm pretty sure that's it for the podcast. And then for me, you can find me at all the aforementioned social media accounts, um, as author Nicole Autumn. I have my own website, which everything will be like, I said, linked down below in a link tree so you can have access to everything, where to purchase my books, all the accounts that I'm on. So it is clickable links now. No copy and pasting. You just boop boop and good to go.
Beautiful.
Yeah. For me, um, Alex Oranes, TikTok, Instagram, um, website is just.com and then you can contact me on there, email me, all the good things. Nice.
I am going to say it one more time just because it's me. Subscribe to my Substack, please. Yes.
Yes. Go do it. You get to see all the fun sneak peeks. The art.
And the cover.
Is gorgeous. I finally, she showed it to me when you sent it to her and I was like, "Oh my god, it's beautiful."
And the font. So I was on Shutterfly.
Yes.
I was on Shutterfly looking up the canvas print.
Oh, that's great. I am such a for fonts and I was seriously just, it's like so much fun for me to do and I found that one and I was like, "Are you serious right now? This is everything that we needed. It fits all the vibes." I was so excited about it.
Yeah. So, yes. Subscribe, subscribe to the Substack for the September letter so you can see the book cover because it is worth it.
Even if you don't care about the book, subscribe for the book cover.
I, I'll just say this. Subscribe to all the newsletters. We, I'm pretty sure you have one, correct?
Yes. Subscribe to all of our newsletters so you can get updates on everything from her art to our books and covers and all that stuff, short stories. And I'm sure I know you said you're also an author.
When?
Yes. So, I have my.
I was just going to say, when is your book coming out if you know yet?
That's a great question. So, I have two. I have, they're both very different. One's like a why choose sci-fi, romanty, is super fun and that's been just like my fun writing project and then I have one that I've been working on. Like I wrote it when I was a teenager and it's just been this like passion project. It's kind of like Leona's book. It's just all my soul has written into that book. And so I don't really know time frames right now as I've been launching my business. But um, I've left my corporate job and I've been transitioning into this business, which also is going to be me writing. So now that, like you said, with kids in school, there's freedom for us moms.
And so now I'm like, "I actually have time. I can like think for myself without being interrupted with like, Mom." So once I have everything settled down, probably in September, I'll start writing again. I'm hoping I'll have something starting up for next year.
Awesome. We'll have, you'll have to keep us updated because that's exciting.
I will, for sure.
Well, I believe that is it. So, next week we will be covering beta readers, which will be a nice fun topic to cover.
Sometimes, don't just.
Depends on the beta reader. Really.
It really depends on the beta reader. Sometimes it's great, sometimes you're like, "Oo, okay." So, that will be what we cover next week. So, thank you all for watching and I hope you guys come back for next week and we will talk to you later. Bye.
Bye.
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