Transcription
[Music] All right, let's go to uh, let's see, Nicole in Kansas City. What's up, Nicole?
Hi, Dr. John. How are you doing?
Just started listening to your book this weekend. It's amazing. It's awesome.
You think so? Really? That makes me happy. Yes.
Hey, and it's making me happy when it's right. When this call is over, if you will just uh DM me your Venmo, and I'll send you some cash for saying that.
I'm really great. Oh my gosh, that's so nice. You don't need to do that, but I appreciate it. I don't even know how the no works. I really can't do that, but I'd sound it cool. So, hey, what's up? How can I help?
All right. So, I am, I'm a divorced mom of two awesome kids. Um, my nine-year-old daughter has been diagnosed with with ADHD. She's also been diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder, which I, I know is controversial, but the fact is that she actively defies me. If the default answer is no on everything, um, and she rejects anything that's important to me, you know, uh, so, you know, if, if it's something that I, I like or I want to do, it's going to be a no automatically.
Give me an example.
Um, so, you know, even just like, let's go to the zoo today. No, I don't want to go to the zoo today. I mean, it's just everything is a default no. But my question, that brings me to my question. So, I am, um, in a relationship now. You know, I'm dating someone. Um, and well, I shouldn't say dating, I'm in a relationship and we've been together for some time now.
You all need to have the DTR. You need to define this relationship.
Yeah, well, it is defined. We're in a relationship. And, you know, I introduced my kids, um, early on in the relationship. I introduced my kids to this man. And, um, they, you know, I didn't introduce him as a boyfriend right away. You know, just, we just kind of hung out in a park a couple times. And, uh, you know, went to like Steak 'n Shake. But, you know, at the time, my very, very jealous ex-husband freaked out. Um, and so it sort of set me into a spiral of, you know, this is too early, I should be doing this, you know. And, um, then COVID came. And the truth is, you know, it's been about 18 months now. I'm still in this relationship. And, um, my, my daughter, I've now, now told her that I have a boyfriend, and she is angry. You know, and she, um, tells me all the time, it's now becoming like a part of what she brings up when she's, um, upset. So, you know, if I make her mad in some way, if I give, if I place a boundary or use some, some discipline, you know, that the line is, you know, I hate, I hate you. You shouldn't be with this boyfriend. You know, um, you know, I, I don't like you. I don't like him. And, you know, I, I don't ever want to be around him. And it's really holding me back from, I feel like I'm living two lives in a lot of ways, where I have this life where I'm in a relationship and it's very good and it's very solid. And then I have a separate life when I'm with my kids. And, um, I'm feeling really stuck. And so I would love some advice on how to move forward.
Yeah, you got it, man. Thank you so much for so clearly laying this all out. That's really helpful. Um, all right, so I'm gonna, you, we could have had, we could have a whole show just pulling this one call apart, okay? Yeah, you got several things here. Um, so I'm gonna throw a lot at you. You stop me if you want me to, to dig into things, okay? And I was just feverishly taking notes while you were talking here. Um, okay, so I wanna back out to ODD. Yeah, you know me and ADHD. Okay. Um, the, the most compelling argument I've read, both physiologically and psychologically, is that those two disorders, if you will, if you want to call them that, are a combination of, of, you know, uh, genetics and combination of experience. Whatever it's a body's response to chaos, okay? Yeah. So you see that a lot in divorced families. If kids, because there was something leading up to the divorce too, right? I mean, there was a season leading up to it.
Yes. And so that's, that's the thing. It's like, she's been, this has been her way of being her whole life, you know, long before the divorce.
Right, right. So I hear that. I hear that. So here, I don't want you to go in the mirror and be like, I ruined my kid. And all that's not gonna help anybody, okay? It's just saying, okay, I'm, I'm gonna let ADHD and ODD and whatever other labels somebody wants to throw at your kid, that's fine. That's a context, not an excuse for how we're gonna treat one another, how we're gonna live in this house, how we're gonna do life together, okay? And so, um, the way I explain it to my son, as and I'm a guy who's, my ADHD is comical. It's, it's off the charts, it's ridiculous. Um, so what does that mean? That means I have to set up systems so that it doesn't give me a pass on showing up to work on time, on treating people with respect, on being kind, being prepared. I don't get a pass on that. I just have to do more work than the average person to get ready for some stuff. I got to set alarms. When I sit down and talk to my kids in the morning, so that I don't miss, um, like when I need to leave, so that I can be on time for my recording, right? Or to be on air, whatever the thing is. And so I just have to create a new life. And that's fine. Everyone's got their stuff. But often when we have young kids, especially kids of divorce, that are really acting out hard, or they're really struggling with focus and attention, or they just sit in the back of a room and they disappear. We, we tend to lean into, they've already had enough, they've been through enough, like let's just let this thing pass or this past. And here's what a kid is screaming for. A couple of things. Number one, one of the most common child fantasies is that my mom and dad are gonna get back together. If I can just get them to see me in the right way, some kids double down on making straight A's, they become the perfect kid. They're trying to, they think they were the problem. Other kids say, can you see me? Can you see me? Can you see me? And that looks like, I'm screaming, I'm yelling, I'm banging my head against the wall. Ultimately, there's this fantasy of, we're getting back together. If it was possible, which it might not be, I would love a conversation now that your daughter's nine, with you and your ex-husband and her to say, we still respect each other. Um, I'm dating somebody. Is your husband, is your ex dating somebody?
Yeah.
Okay. We are, we still respect each other. You're still our baby girl. You're still the number one in our lives when it comes to our kid. I mean, you're still so important. Let her know there's there's a period in of y'all's relationship. Sentence. Right. We're moving on here. That may not be possible. Not all exes are that mature and that grown up, but that would be a gift to your child. It'll hurt, and it'll be a mess, and it will cause kicking and screaming, whatever, but it will allow her to begin to toggle out of, if I just do something, they'll get back together. And that leads me to you. Mom, you're giving way too much power to this nine-year-old.
Yeah, that's what my therapist says.
Listen, here's, it's not only when I say you're giving her too much power, you are. But that's not about you. She can't handle the weight of what she's trying to carry around because she's not. Yeah, and she's heartbroken, and she's her brain is firing all over the place, right? She's got some, she's got some true neurological struggles right now, or psychological struggles, or both. And so I would begin to, in short order, really reclaim the ownership of your home. What does that look like? When your child says, um, I wrote this down here, um, I hate you. Number one, she doesn't, she doesn't have words for, I'm, my body reacts when you come in the room because I feel like I screwed something up, like I broke up my family, like I'm none, and they didn't love me enough to stay together. All those things are overwhelming her nine-year-old brain, and it comes out, I hate you. That's the only language she has. A response to that is, I'm so grateful that you felt brave enough to share that with me. We don't use the word hate in this home, but you are welcome to not like me right now, and I, and you're allowed to do that. So thank you for sharing that. And here's what she's finding. She is not responsible for mom's emotional regulation. And if she can get you off kilter, then she has the power in your home. And if you flip that on its head, she feels responsible for how mom is doing, how mom feels, and she cannot carry that weight. It's too much. Yeah. And so taking the sting out of, I hate you. You just know this, just hear me say it. She doesn't hate you. She loves you. She just doesn't know what's happening in her body.
So, cool. And does she weaponize it? Does she, all over Dad, like he's the best, he's the greatest, the whatever?
Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, she loves Dad. She loves Dad's new girlfriend. Oh, the best. She's awesome. She talks about the new girlfriend all the time. You know, and then it's like, she hates, hates me, hates my boyfriend right now. You are not living your life for the approval of a nine-year-old. Oof. Yeah. Okay. You are using your wisdom and your strength and your grief to parent this young child through a really tough situation. Um, some kids won't talk. I've continued to get, uh, messages back that are really, um, they fill me up, they're awesome, of parents whose kids wouldn't talk to them either. They were annoying, or they were like, shut up, Mom, I don't talk to you, whatever. And they started doing the, the journal on the bed. I write a note to my kid, and then they write me back. And the feedback I'm getting is it's phenomenal. Like, it's such a comically easy tool that parents didn't know about. Kids won't say things sometimes, but they'll write them down. And it may be, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, you're an idiot, I hate your boyfriend. The response is, thank you so much for sharing that with me. He's a really great guy, and I look forward to the day that you feel safe around him. And leaving it at that. And it's gonna slowly take the sting out of that stuff, and she's gonna realize this isn't working, and Mom still loves me, and I can't punish my Mom because my Mom's a grown-up, and it's not allowing me, a nine-year-old, to punish her, right? Um, and you just, you know, this, it's just gonna be a, y'all have a road to ho, man. You're gonna have a young daughter that's gonna be constantly asking herself what she did wrong. And it's gonna take some really wise parenting, co-parenting on you and your ex to let her know she didn't do anything wrong. She's a lovely, wonderful young girl. Um, yeah. And then, man, at some point, you got to bring your, if that's this guy's gonna be part of your life going forward, your daughter feels that gap. She feels that there's two moms, too. Yeah. A mom that's getting dressed to go out, who's excited to let the, that, let the burden of this whiny nine-year-old in this chaos of a house go, so I can just go out to eat and be with another grown-up who actually likes me. And she feels that. And so there's, there's got to be some sort of, hey, he's gonna come. You are welcome to join us for dinner. You don't have to say anything. And after dinner, then you can go film, watch something, or whatever, go play some games, or whatever. Um, but I'm gonna set the boundaries here. And here's one quick trick with some, a kid who struggles with oppositional defiant disorder. It's just funny. I may have talked about this on the show or not. My wife was talking with a, we're at a parent-teacher conference, and my son doesn't have that, but we were talking about discipline. And I think it's called conscious discipline. If I mean, it's, it's an educational technique, okay? But they were discussing it with each other. So it was my wife, who's the scholar, and was sitting down with a teacher, and they were talking about, um, how they do discipline. And I, I, I was listening to explain it back and forth. And finally, I stopped and I looked at my wife and said, you do this to me. And she smiled real big. And it's like, yeah, I do. So here's, here it is. It is giving this child a framed sense of ownership. So when instead of saying, hey, we're going to the zoo today, is that going to be great? Then, no, you suck, I hate you, we're not going to the zoo, zoo's the worst. Um, it is, here's three options, and one of the options can be ridiculous. We can sit outside in the yard and do nothing. That can be one of them. Or we can go to a movie, or we can go to the zoo. You get to pick. I'll give you 15 minutes, and I'll put on your favorite music while you decide. And then there's this sense of, that's what I'm talking about. I'll tell you what we're going to do today, right? And there's a, and a sense of ownership. And really, you framed the whole thing up.
Yeah, that makes sense. Although it does lose my other child in the mix.
Or yeah, or this time you get to pick, next time, um, you're the other child gets to pick. Or you all get to work on this together. And if you all don't come up with something in 15 minutes, I'm picking. And I'm gonna pick that we're just gonna go eat broccoli at a local restaurant, right? I'm gonna pick something ridiculous. But we're gonna let that nine-year-old choose. Let those kids own it. And then you win because what you want is great fun time with your kids. And you'll get that. And they will go with their head, heads held high and their chest puffed out a little bit. There may be some, you can't make me, I'm not doing any of this stuff, you can't make me do any of it. And then you can say, yeah, we are. You're coming with us because you're nine and I'm just bigger than you, right? And you don't ever want to resort to that sort of power. But, um, sometimes you have to with she's always nine-year-olds. But here's what we're having. We're just gonna take that, that weight off of your kid. She's not running the show anymore. And maybe you even sit down with your nine-year-old, depending on how articulate, how much she can understand, take her out to breakfast and say, it's been a hard few years, and you've had to own a lot of what's going on in here. So I'm gonna start, I'm gonna take ownership back of the house. You're my little girl, and you have a special place in my house. This house doesn't work without you. I love you so much. And so I'm gonna start picking up some of the slack that I've let you have. And here's a couple of the rules. We're not gonna say hate in this house. If you say the word hate, then you're choosing to fill in the blank consequence. And I hate that. I don't. Oh, actually, I just said hate. Um, I don't like that. Um, I don't want you to choose those things because I want you with us and I want you fully involved, right? Um, but those, those annoying things, we're not gonna say bad words in the house. That's just not how we talk to one another here. We treat each other with dignity, respect. You can be sad and frustrated all you want. That's great. Um, but you're not gonna use ugly words. Uh, you're not gonna say bad words in the house. And, and so on and so forth, right? All that to say is, it's a mess growing up and dating and making, you know, secondary families and kids. The whole thing's a mess. Retain that ownership of that home and let your daughter know, I see you and I hear you, and you are allowed to have your feelings. They're okay.