DEBATE: Which Is Best for Society: Christianity Or Islam? | Michael Jones vs Jvnior

You didn't give me a verse. Do you know what? I'm reading the tap from the Quran. I literally told you you're not a Muslim scholar. You will never understand what means. You don't even understand the root word of a Muslim is not allowed to [ __ ] a child.

Then why is that?

A Muslim who [ __ ] a child will be beheaded and shot.

I hope so.

Yes.

Amen, brother. Why? Why isn't the law in America reflecting that? Why do you guys have pedophiles that are celebrated like Jeffrey Epstein?

What point was disproved?

If you can let me speak, please, and explain why Islam is better for humanity.

Oh, finally. We'll be waiting for this. Go ahead, please.

Let me tell you something, Michael.

Are you done filibustering?

I literally I literally had a dream where I met Jesus Christ.

Okay, MLK.

I have a dream.

I had a dream. Look, he's making fun of me when I'm talking about Jesus Christ. I want to introduce our speakers before we do jump into their opening statements. Going first, Mike Jones runs the YouTube channel Inspiring Philosophy. He's a Christian apologist and has earned a master's in philosophy from the University of Arizona. He's debated many prestigious atheists including Dr. Lawrence Krauss, Dr. Michael Shurmer, and Matt Dillanti. Michael Jones. Let's give him a warm welcome. Thank you very much, Michael, for being here. As well as, please join me in welcoming Junior, who is a Palestinian Muslim who studies both Islamic and Christian scripture with academic precision. He retired from music and entrepreneurship to pursue a path for God after losing some of his family in the Gaza genocide. His goal is to call for people to pray for the return of Jesus. Please welcome Junior. Thank you very much, Junior, for being with us. With that, we're going to jump right into it. So, without any further ado, the timer is set for you, Mike, for your 15-minute opening statement. The floor is all yours.

Thank you, James, and thank you to my opponent for agreeing to the debate. I want to start out by noting this is not merely a philosophical or religious debate, but a sociological one. We could all just talk about why each of us think our respective religions is better, but that would get us nowhere. We need to use real-world data as a tiebreaker. When we look at the peer-reviewed studies, the data strongly favors Christianity over Islam. This really isn't a topic that even should be up for debate because when we run the numbers, we see research has already demonstrated that Christianity is far better. And I will press him on this point throughout the debate. Now, to be clear, I'm not saying everything about Islam is bad. What I am saying though is that Christianity creates more optimal societies with better results. And although there are some good results associated with Islam, it produces less optimal societies and results in harmful outcomes and practices. This will be clear as I go through the data. Let's start with war and violence. Davis Brown has spent several years studying this. He conducted one of many studies on the influence of religion and interstate armed conflict and his model has robustness checks in terms of government religious preference. He found that Buddhism was non-significant. Christianity was strongly negatively associated with war and conflict, but Islam was positively associated with it. To quote, "A state with a non-zero median Christian GRP is 60% less likely to initiate a fatal armed conflict than a state with no Christian GRP. A state with a maximum Christian GRP is 73% less likely." Whereas empirical results suggest that states with Christian GRPs are less likely to use force, they also suggest that states with Muslim GRPs are moderately more likely. At the lowest threshold of using force, a state with the median non-zero Muslim GRP is 84% more likely to resort to force than a state with no Muslim GRP. He strengthened his results in a book he published in 2019. So when a society is Muslims, we see that conflict increases and when a society adopts Christianity, this contributes to conflicts decreasing. Joshua Wright in his work has found that Muslims score higher in religious fundamentalism. But fundamentalism leads to racial prejudice, hostility towards value violating out-groups and support for violence against out-groups. He says, "The evidence that Muslims tend to have more fundamental beliefs than other religious groups, suggests that Muslims may be more susceptible to what P and Slade term the terrorist meme, an ideal expressing selective interpretations of the Quran that is spread throughout the Islamic world. In this way, fundamentalist beliefs may act as a facilitator for religious terrorism." Similarly, describes how the jihadi message successfully motivates Muslims because it is a natural extension of the dominant narrative in the Islamic world and is minimally counterintuitive for most Muslims. Higher levels of fundamentalism may enhance the acceptance of the jihadi message. So, Christianity results in less harmful outcomes due to less fundamentalism than what Islam fosters. M. Steven Fish found that there is more political violence in Muslim countries. In fact, it is more than double what is found in Christian ones. Now, he says the Muslim effect is small, but still has to conclude. All we can say with certainty is that Islamists do bear some responsibility for major episodes of political violence in the post-war world. He also notes Islam is associated with higher rates of terrorism. He says self-proclaimed Islamists have been responsible for over three-fifths of all incidents and nearly 710 of all deaths. Terrorism is not a uniquely Muslim disease, but its perpetrators in recent times are disproportionately Islamists. Muslims may be prone to tolerate terrorism in the name of their religion, which in turn points our attention to explanations for Islamist terrorism that have a religious dimension. To list a couple more, Monica Duffy Tough has found in her model that Islam leads to religious civil wars among Arab Muslims, but it's lacking among Arab Christians. Choi and Brown found in their model that Salafism is associated with more suicide attacks. To quote, "We reason that high levels of suicide attacks in Hanafi and Shafi countries are related to the subversive subversive aspects of the Salafi movement." In one study, Jonathan Fox found that Islamic civilization is the most prone to conflict. And in a more important study, he said, "Islamic majority groups engage in more than double the average level of religious discrimination as non-Islamic groups and nearly five times the average level of Christian majority groups. Religious legitimacy is about 50% more important for conflicts involving Islamic majorities than for conflicts involving non-Islamic majorities, including those involving Christian majorities. Islamic conflicts score about twice as high on both the composite religion variable and on relevance of religion variable as non-Islamic groups and about two and a half times as high as Christian majorities. Thus, there is clear evidence that religion is considerably more important to conflicts involving Islamic majorities in less important in conflicts involving Christian majorities." Speaking of discrimination, another study found religious discrimination is much higher in Muslim majority countries than in Christian majority ones. Christianity was also positively associated in the study with economic strength and democracy. Another study found that in Muslim countries, apostates and people of the book experience about four times the rate of discrimination than Muslim minority groups do. So, Christians and Jews are not being treated as equals in Muslim countries. The data could not be more clear. Islam leads to more conflict, violence, and discrimination. Now, I expect that my opponent will respond to this by blaming it on other factors. But the research I cited factors in things like the effects of colonialism, wealth, influence from the West, and poverty. They still found that Islam is a variable among many others that leads to more conflict and violence. Removing Islam and replacing it with Christianity means we will get less violence. Not a total absence because of other factors like poverty and other things that lead to violence. But the data is pretty clear. The world would not get better if we increase Islam's influence. It will result in more conflicts and violence. Next, we can look at political issues. Islam suffers from serious problems that Christianity reduces. Roland to Salem, you need to move up to slide 19. You're a little behind, just so you know. Roland to Salem looked at Protestantism, Catholicism, and Islam. He found that nations with higher Protestantism have more voice and accountability in government, citizen empowerment, political stability, NGO membership, and have the ability to create political transformation. Catholicism is positively associated with citizen empowerment, higher levels of NGO membership, and political transformation. Islam wasn't positively associated with any of these benefits. Additionally, Bidlarski found that Islam is linked to autocracy in two of the three of his measures. And M. Steven Fish also found that Islam is associated with more authoritarianism. He even says, "We controlled for major structural factors that might create a spurious correlation between Islam and authoritarianism. And while several of these factors may explain part of the correlation, they do not account for all of it." My opponent has publicly said on X that Americans would be better if we lived under Sharia law. But the peer-reviewed data shows the opposite. We would see an increase in conflict and violence, less political stability, more authoritarianism, less citizen empowerment, and less democracy and more discrimination. Maybe he'll try to argue that democracy and too much freedom is not actually good for humanity. But research has found the opposite. Democracy and religious freedom is associated with a host of positive benefits. If he tries to dispute this, I'll rebut it with data. Let's move on to women in Islam. Abdullah Awandooi once said, "I think if you truly want to judge a society and how it regards human life, then you should see how it treats the source of human life, women. And then you'll see whether a society truly dignifies human life or not." Well, given that Islam is positively associated with violence, it should come as no surprise that we see an increase in wife-beating in Muslim families, or as it's called in the literature, intimate partner violence, or IPV for short. This paper reviewed several studies and found in general, these studies found high prevalent levels of IPV among Muslims living in the US and globally. Consistent with IPV research in general, verbal and psychological abuse was found most prevalent, followed by physical, sexual, and fatal. Individual, family, and interlocking societal problems, traditional beliefs, spirituality, and immigration-related stressors were associated with IPV as identified by several studies. Studies on beliefs about IPV found that there tended to be higher leniency in justification of abuse in Muslim cultures than in than is the western norm. Muslim men across the board tended to justify abuse more than Muslim women except when the wife had an affair. A meta-ethnography looked at multiple studies as well and found that Muslim women reported experiencing a range of forms of domestic violence and abuse encompassing physical, psychological, emotional, economic, social, and sexual abuse. In terms of physical violence, women encountered various forms such as beating, slaps, kicks, and hits from their partners and from members of the family-in-law. These religious values and beliefs were subject to the interpretation and guidance of religious leaders. Sharia law plays a role in shaping the behavior of many individuals within the community. Sharia law dictated that women must be obedient to their husbands and men felt empowered to punish their wives if they perceive them as disobedient. And they also say it is evident that religious beliefs were a strong influence on women's acceptance of domestic violence and abuse and reluctant to leave and seek help. So not only does Islam make Muslims more violent, this violence is often taken out on women. Because of this, it should become as no surprise that M. Steven Fish found that in Muslim countries, women have lower life expectancies and lower levels of literacy. Not only are women abused more in Islam, they even have shorter lives and less education. It is clear Muslim women do not have the same respect and equality that they get in Christian societies. What's interesting is this study looked at the effects of when Christians moved into India. Christian missionaries began a massive education campaign and the results speak for themselves. This study found that Muslims had on average 15 literate girls per 10,000. Hindus had on average 21 literate girls and then Christians dwarfed these numbers by having on average 203 literate girls per 10,000. Similar results were found in Africa, education tended to decrease in historic Islamic regions. Whereas in places like the Gold Coast due to Christian missionary influence, education increased. Back in India, another study found similar results with education but also health outcomes. They say Muslim women are comparably less literate, married at a younger age, and are less likely to work. Christian women have the highest literacy rates in our sample, marry at older ages, and work at rates higher than those of upper-caste Hindu and Muslim women. They also found with the addition of controls for possible endogeneity in the location of missions, infant Christian girls in the full sample are 3.702 standard deviations taller, and Muslim infant girls are 2.1 standard deviations taller than lower-caste Hindu girls. So, not only are girls better respected in Christianity, they're more educated and healthy at birth. We know Islam allows polygamy, but polygamy is associated with a wide range of poor health outcomes. As two meta-analyses found, women in polygamous marriages suffer from somatization, obsessive-compulsive disorder, interpersonal sensitivity, depression, anxiety, hostility, phobia, paranoia, and psychoticism. It also found children in polygamous marriages who have lower academic achievement. So, because Islam allows polygamy, it allows for more harm done to women and children. Christianity outlawed polygamy early on, and thank God we did. Now, my opponent may try to bring up people in the Bible who practiced polygamy or Christian authors who allowed for it, but that won't work because in Christianity, we have moral progress. God tolerated polygamy in the past, but it was only temporary until a more perfect covenant could be established. And in the New Testament, we see the only types of marriages that are allowed are monogamous ones, citing what was established in Genesis 2. Christianity also has a concept called the two books, the book of scripture and the book of nature. We're allowed to use what we find in nature to better help us understand scripture. Edward Grant notes that this attitude towards science and the natural world comes out of Christianity's concept of the separation of church and state, which Islam lacks. Since we now know that polygamy is very harmful, then it becomes sinful for Christians to engage in this practice. Islam lacks these kinds of principles and is too restrictive which prevents it from experiencing similar moral progress. Child marriage also results from Islam specifically from the fact the Quran pretends Muhammad is an excellent moral example, but Muhammad married Aisha when she was six and consummated the marriage when she was nine. Meaning he was a non-exclusive pedophile. Muslims around the world use this practice and as this study shows to justify child marriage in large numbers. There is no doubt among researchers that child marriage is one of the most harmful practices that young girls have to endure. And I covered this more extensively in my debate with Daniel Aiku. Peace be upon him. But there are numerous problems including high risk of physical damage, emotional and mental damage, physical abuse, and even fatality from childbirth. Again, there is far less child marriage in Christian societies for obvious reasons. We're allowed to reason from the damage such practice causes that it is sinful and should be rejected. There is so much more data to cover, but I'm running out of time. But given what I covered here, it should be clear that Christianity gives us far better results than what Islam does. You want better societies with less violence and conflict, more political stability, less authoritarianism, less discrimination, especially of us Christians and Jews, better treatment of women, less child marriage, and many other factors, you should prefer a Christian society. Now, my opponent needs to account for this data tonight. As I said, this is a sociological debate. Okay? If he ignores this data, he will be conceding the debate because real-world data shows Islam causes all sorts of problems. You just can't sit there and do armchair science. You actually need to go through the data, present your own data to show that Islam creates better societies. If he doesn't do that, I don't really care about how he interprets the Quran or the Bible. That's his interpretation. That's not how it manifests in reality. So, what I expect is will happen is we'll get a bunch of Bible verses out of context and just some interpretations of the Quran, but that won't be enough to deal with my data. But let's see what he has. I look forward to hearing what he has to say.

Thank you very much for that opening, Mike. We will kick it over to Junior for his 15-minute opening as well. Thanks for being with us, Junior. The floor is all yours.

Thank you. Thank you, James. Uh, just making sure my mic is working. You guys can hear me fine. Perfect. Michael, you you made the whole audience fall asleep in the last 15 minutes. What's going on? Like I thought this was an opening statement. You presented a lot of data and I took notes in my Quran. I'm not sure if you guys are allowed to do that in your Bible if you can take notes or not, but I took a lot of notes and made sure to not write the words that you said about the prophet. We'll get to that later, though. I'm a Muslim Palestinian. I believe Jesus Christ is the Messiah. This is my opening statement, a very powerful one. We're from Palestine, you say? Some may call it Israel today, but I'm from Nazareth, the literal birthplace of Jesus. My grandma got kicked out from Nazareth in 1948. Why? Because she was Muslim. Muslims have been oppressed in the Middle East ever since Israel has been established as a state. What does Christianity and Judaism say? Jews are the chosen people and Israel is the holy land that belongs to Jews. Unfortunately, if I was to bring Bible verses to try and disprove that today, I wouldn't be able to convince you guys because America tells you to support Israel. But the reason I'm here today is to show you that Islam is actually better for humanity and not a threat to humanity. We didn't come to destroy America. We didn't come to make you hate Israel. Even though Israel is committing a genocide against our country, for 700 days, my family starved. I sent them money. They couldn't even buy flour because the money I sent them wasn't enough. For 700 days, my family would call me every night telling me, "I don't think I'm going to talk to you tomorrow because maybe I'm going to die. Maybe a bomb is going to drop on my house and I'm not going to be able to talk to you." For 700 days, I cried and prayed for Jesus to return on this earth. How many Christians do you know that do that? I'm a Muslim with a Palestinian identity with the same birthplace as Jesus. I wasn't born in Nazareth. My grandma was born in Nazareth. But I feel such a deep tie to that location and that place for one reason only. We suffered death for the last 700 years for for the last 700 days. We suffered oppression for the last 75 years. And I'm still standing in front of you today with a smile on my face. I'm still standing today praying for the return of Jesus. And I'm still trying to make humanity better. So despite being one of the most oppressed individuals in the world, a Muslim is standing here in front of you telling you, I want to make the world a better place. So let's begin. How can Islam make the world a better place? How can Islam improve humanity? Doesn't Christianity already do that? Well, when you bring Islam into the equation, Islam simply brings more clarity. It brings more completion. It brings more simplicity. You brought up a lot of points about polygamy in the opening statement, which you didn't say anything of your opinion. You just read research, which is kind of disappointing because I was hoping to hear some of your opinions about Islam. The only one that you sort of yelled out was a slur against our prophet. That's usual. We're used to that. Islam's clarity is very very prominent in our book. The book says, I'm just going to open a random page on the book and I'm going to read. All right? And I'm going to show you how precise this book is. You saw me flip the page. I didn't put a lot of thought into it. Indeed, we have created man and we know whatever thoughts his inner self develops and we are closer to him than his jugular vein. This chapter is chapter 50 and the verse that I just read is verse 15. Verse 15. Chapter 50 in the Quran randomly pulled up just told you that God is the creator of man and God is closer to man than his jugular vein. I don't see Jesus sitting right next to me. I don't see Jesus anywhere in this room. So either the Quran is false or something is missing. I literally just opened this verse randomly to show you that Islam is very clear. You will never open the Quran and read a verse and be in confusion. This is a myth. Anybody who says, "Open up the Quran, you're going to see evil," they don't open up the Quran themselves. If I was to ask Michael here, "What are the six pillars of faith in Islam?" he wouldn't even know. You probably studied that because it's a very popular question in apologetics right now. That's good. I didn't ask you the question though. This is my opening statement. So, please let me finish. In Christianity, there are a lot of great stuff. Lot of amazing stuff because the God of the Bible is the God of the Quran. So, when you say that Christianity is so amazing for humanity, I actually agree with you. I live in a Christian country. I would I became educated enough to be able to stand on a stage. Well, sit down on his stage and talk to you guys. Talk to you guys about the return of Jesus. Talk to you guys about the oppression that is happening in the world that is hiding behind Christianity and Judaism. Christianity right now is at a very critical point. You guys are the world's largest religion, the biggest group of Jesus followers. Muslims are right behind you. People like Michael Jones have a hard time believing that Muslims follow Jesus. Muslims believe in the virgin birth of Jesus. Muslims believe that there is only one son of Virgin Mary and his name is Jesus of Nazareth. Muslims believe that Jesus only spoke the truth. Muslims believe that the Bible was the word of God and was revealed by Allah to humanity just as the Torah, the Zabur, and what came before it. There was even a group of monotheists that lived in ancient Mesopotamia that are mentioned in the Quran called Sabians. Now, if I was to call them Muslims, someone like Michael would lose his absolute mind. He would say, "How are they Muslim? How are these ancient people that predate Islam, why are they considered Muslim?" Well, because there is a central key foundation in the doctrine of Islam, which is submission to God. And that that literal phrase submit to God exists in the Bible. Jesus taught us how to submit to God. In Matthew it says he fell on his face and prayed. He fell on his face and prayed to submit to God. He gave his free will to his father and never did anything out of his own will. He never taught his own words. I I would call Jesus a Muslim. Every time I post on X, Jesus is a Muslim prophet, it gets 200 likes and 3,000 replies. Why? Why is it such a bad statement to say that Jesus was a Muslim prophet? Hopefully in this debate I can clear up the misconceptions that Christian apologists always always trip on when it comes to explaining why Islam is better for humanity. Michael Jones brought up some very good points and I agree with him. Islamic community needs more education. We need more freedom from the West. We need the bombs to stop dropping on our heads while we go to sleep so we can improve humanity. Islam will never be able to better humanity as long as Islam is in war. Right now, people like Michael Jones are declaring war on Islam. They say, "Oh, Islam is good. You know, not everything about Islam is bad." But then they go and say, "Our prophet was a pedophile." So, there's a bit of hypocrisy here. I didn't come to you with data in my opening statement. I came to you with a real story, real pain. And I'm not even making it about myself. All I'm trying to remind you is that Jesus is returning. Jesus is coming back in this lifetime. I've had dreams where I met Jesus. I'm still a Muslim. Do you know what that means? That means there's something in Islam that you all need to understand. Something that I'm going to try and bring out of my heart today so maybe it can reach any open heart in the audience today or anyone watching that genuinely thinks that Muslims are not bad people. I'm going to put your heart at comfort. I'm going to put these accusations to rest. I told Michael, "Don't insult our prophet. Don't go there because you're going to change the whole debate." And he's already done that. So, the direction of this debate is not going to be a back and forth. It's rather going to be who can win over the audience. Michael is not telling you Jesus is coming back. A Muslim is sitting on stage telling you Jesus is coming back. Go back to your churches. Go back and read the Bible. Read what it says about Jesus. So when he comes back, you know who he is. We pray for Jesus to come back because we literally cannot leave our country. Palestine is literally enclosed in an open-air prison. Nobody's allowed to leave unless they pay a $10,000 ransom fee. To who? We all know who. We all know who. The governments, the people who claim to be Christians, Muslims, Jews, but they're not they're not telling you Jesus is coming back. Michael Jones is not telling you Jesus is coming back. The people in Palestine are telling you Jesus is coming back. The people who watch every single church get destroyed. The church of St. Poliferus in Gaza has been destroyed. I hope I can get a statement from you, Michael, that says, "I condemn the genocide in Gaza. You claim to be a defender of children. You claim to love children." You know what I've been doing for the last 700 days? I haven't been attacking Christianity. As a Muslim, I've been posting videos of our dead children. And what happens on the platforms that I post them on? I get shadowbanned. I get called a liar. I get attacked. Muslims face so much persecution today. So for you to just say that Islam is not better for humanity is just unfair. When Islam gets out of this age of war and enters a golden age of knowledge and education, you will see the beauty in the Muslim people. Did you see the viral TikTok video of the woman who called 20 Christian churches? I don't know if they were Protestant or Catholic. I'm not going to go there. But I think this should wake up every single Christian in America. When you have a single mother, I don't care if she was a scammer. I don't care if it was a social experiment. I don't care if it was just a TikTok video. A woman calls 20 churches and all of them refused to give her baby formula. She calls an Islamic church. Well, at least that's what she called it. A mosque told her when and where where are you and when do you need it? And he asked her one more question. What kind of baby formula do you need? The mosques are equipped to handle such tragedies in society. They're equipped to handle such demands from single mothers whereas the churches are not. So, it's it's quite ironic to me that Michael, you know, sat down last night, last minute, pulling up all this data about women being oppressed when in fact, you know what? Women are not oppressed. I'm literally going to call my wife right now and I'm going to show you a real-time example of a good Muslim husband. Hi, baby. How are you?

She's soothing with a teething toddler.

Oh, I'm sorry. Is she crying? Baby, I have one question. Just real quick because the audience is listening. Have I ever put my hands on you?

Oh, no.

Have I ever beat you?

No.

Okay. I love you so much. Let me finish this debate and I'll call you back.

So, right there, you can't make this up. I've never put my hands on my wife. I've read the entire Quran. I'm in the process of memorizing it. I'm in the process of memorizing hundreds and hundreds of hadiths. And not a single one has told me to put my hands on my wife. And if it did, I definitely would have because I follow Islam and I do everything Islam tells me. The reason I'm sitting here taking scrutiny today being attacked, whatever he says to me, I'm going to accept it. You know why? Because none of this matters. What matters is the return of Jesus Christ. Jesus will return. I swear to God, if I speak lies, may God strike me down. May God kill me. We are facing a genocide in Palestine right now. They made this whole play online that there's a ceasefire. There's a yellow line and if you cross that line, you're going to get murdered without any question asked. I wanted to quick take a moment to say thank you to our friends at MainFirst Project for sponsoring Debatecon 6 as they also believe in the values of free speech and fair debate. Main First Project is fighting for conservatism in New England and beyond. So check out their link in the description box below. I have the timer set for you, Mike, for your first rebuttal. That's 10 minutes.

Don't worry.

Let me know when you're ready.

Ready on your first word to start the timer.

All right. Appreciate that. Uh how's everybody doing? Um, let's wake up the crowd. Come on. That's see that is how you wake up a crowd. Thank you. All right, so let's get into this right here. A lot of stuff to go through. Um, not a lot of data as we can all see. Again, this is about the data. We're not arguing we're not arguing is Islam good and is Christianity good. We're arguing which is better. And I already said in my opening statement, I'm not going to say everything about Islam is bad. Uh, let's talk about the last thing you said. I never said you beat your wife. I think you're a really good person. You obviously treat her well. You're obviously better than a lot of Muslims because again, the data shows that again when we go through the meta-ethnography in the review I cited, we see higher levels of abuse. Not that does not mean all Muslims do it, not saying that at all. You want a hadith on this? Okay, we'll go to Abu Dawud 2146. Um, okay, so do not beat Allah's handmaidens. But when Umar came to the messenger of Allah and said, "Women have become emboldened towards their husbands," he, the prophet, gave permission to beat them. Then many women came round to families of the messenger of Allah complaining against their husbands. So the messenger of Allah said, "Many women have gone around Muhammad's family complaining against their husbands. They are not the best among you." Okay, so he says not the best among you. Fair enough. But he still gave them permission. Why is he giving them permission if they're going to do it and it's going to cause them to be bad people? That's a problem right there. So, uh, odd thing to say there. Okay. Uh, let's talk, let's go through some of these points here. Um, you brought talked a lot about, uh, Israel. Um, Israel is not a Christian nation. How many Andrew Wilson fans are here? Oh, okay. How many of you are Andrew Wilson fans support Israel? Oh, lo and behold, look, there's disagreement among Christians on this issue. I'm shocked. Seriously, I'm shocked. Yeah, it's this is an American phenomenon. A lot of Christians around the world don't actually hold to that. Uh, he says he wanted to hear my opinions, not research. Um, do I need to even go further? This isn't a debate about opinions. This is a debate about what the facts are and facts don't care about your feelings. Okay, we all know that. So, no. He says, "I uttered a slur against his prophet." No, I didn't. I stated what is in the DSM-5. If you're having intercourse with a 9-year-old girl, you are you, they are called non-exclusive pedophiles because a non-exclusive pedophile, someone who's attracted to pre-pubescent boys and women. Okay? That is just a clinical term. Okay? If you want to call that an insult, I'm sorry, facts are insults. I don't have to tell you. Uh, he says Muslims do follow Jesus. Uh, you guys denote him. That's our problem. It's like taking the CEO of a company and making him the janitor. We say he's God. That's it. When you say that he's just a prophet, that's an insult to us. Okay? So, you could say it any day you want. It still is insulting to us. It's like it's like if, um, I started calling you by your first job title, whatever it was, like if you were a clerk or, you know, you stocked shelves, you'd be like, "No, no, I've done many other things." Yeah. And you'd be right about that. Uh, he agrees Muslims need more education. Yeah, thank you. I guess I win the debate. Yes, we see that Christian societies have already done this better. We've educated our people better. Therefore, we're creating more optimal societies. Okay. Thanks. Appreciate it. Thanks for that, uh, concede. Appreciate it. Um, he says we're declaring war on Islam. Uh, spiritually, yes, we are. We're not declaring right now any sort of physical war on Islam. This is a spiritual war. Okay. We disagree with Islam. We think it's bad for humanity. We think they teach false doctrines. We as Christians are called to stand against that. That is a command from our Lord Jesus Christ. So at the end of the day, yes, we spiritually will stand against anything that stands against the gospel. Okay? That doesn't mean we're not going to be peaceful. That doesn't mean we're not going to resort to violence as the first to go. As again, I studied a bunch of research showing that Christians reduce violence around the world. We reduce discrimination. Again, Jonathan Fox found that in Muslim countries, there is five times the level of discrimination than what you find in Christian ones. So, he says Muslims are persecuted and discriminated around the world. I have to tell you, Muslims are doing a heck ton of persecution apparently. Again, look at what Grimfinky found in their in their book, The Price of Freedom Denied. Okay, they know this is a this is coming from Islam. It's not something that is divorced from Islam. Islam is causing this kind of discrimination. It leads to more discrimination and it's horrible. So this is one of the reasons we're going to fight against Islam. He wants to talk about genocide. What about all the Christians being genocided in Nigeria and throughout Africa? Okay, being beheaded in the Congo. This is horrible stuff. Okay, we as Christians condemn all genocides. There's one going on in Gaza. I condemn it. Okay, but that's not the topic of the debate tonight. The topic is what is going to make society better, humanity better, Christianity or Islam? The data clearly shows it's Christianity. Again, you guys want less war and conflict, Christianity is going to give you a better society. You want less discrimination, you want better treatment of minority groups in the country, Christianity is going to give that. There's no wonder Muslims flee their countries they created and come to ours. They're being treated better here than the way our people are being treated over there. Okay, that needs to be noted. And what Israel is doing has nothing to do with this because you got to actually show a study showing that somehow that is correlated to Christian beliefs. Okay, there's a simple simple way to do this. I I when I debated R and RAW on if Christianity is dangerous, I I said, look, you want to show Christianity is dangerous, here's how you do it. You show something in the Bible, then you show you have the right interpretation and most Christians agree with that interpretation and then show it leads to harm. Okay? He couldn't do that. I can easily do that with Islam. Okay, the Quran in Surah 4 says polygamy is permissible. Okay, that's pretty straightforward. Most Muslims agree with that. And then we see polygamy leads to horrible, horrible consequences. Okay, I could just win the debate with polygamy alone because what happens with polygamy? Okay, so let's just do the math here. Okay. Okay, humans have produced roughly an equal number of men and women. Okay, when you have top men take multiple wives, that means the bottom percentage of men don't have wives. What do they do then? They join gangs, terrorist organizations. They commit violence. Muslims say often that they are sometimes the biggest victims of terrorism. Duh. You're the ones creating societies that foster that. When you leave 30% of the young men, 20 depending on where what nation you're in, percentage can vary. You leave them alone without the prospect of having a wife or starting a family. What do you think they're going to do? Thank God Christianity outlawed polygamy early on because we see that taught in the New Testament. And I'd argue it's also in Leviticus 18:18, but that's another topic. Uh, so yeah, a lot of data to go through. I could just sit here and start listing hadiths at this point because there's I I think I've covered just about everything there. Uh, so let's go through a couple of these. Um, Sahih al-Bukhari 26:58. The prophet said, "Isn't a witness of a woman equal to half that of a man?" The woman said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." So ladies, in Islam, you are equal to half that of a man, and it's because of the deficiency of your mind. Okay? Surah 4:34 gives Muslims permission to strike women, to strike their wives. First, you you scold them, you remove them from the bed, and if that doesn't work, then you can hit them. Okay? Now, what what do we see in the results? What does the research show, guys? It shows Islam in Muslim families, there is higher levels of domestic violence and abuse, higher levels of intimate partner violence. Where do you think that's coming from? Okay, it just it flows for itself. Sahih al-Bukhari 58:25 Aisha talked about a woman who was being beaten and said her skin is greener than her clothes. That's how bad this woman was getting beat. Aisha said, "I have not seen women suffering as much as the believing women." Sahih al-Bukhari 58:25. So women were being beat and if you go through the rest of the hadith, the prophet never says, "Stop beating her." No, that's not even the point of the hadith. I mean, there there's so much I could go through. We could cover how Muhammad gave permission to his soldiers to take women of captives and turn them into sex slaves. You can see that throughout the hadith. Uh may not like it, but yeah, that that's in there. You can go to places like, um, jumping out term 316. Uh, you go to Sunan 2155, I believe that as well. Uh, all these are showing that kind of stuff. Now again, I'm not saying everything about Islam is bad. Okay. Islam says to pray. Okay. Says to take care of your neighbor. That kind of stuff. These are good things. I'm not saying my opponent is doing all these things. He seems like a pretty decent fellow. Okay. That doesn't change the fact that the ideology he's promoting would create a worse world. If you are promoting and spreading Islam, you and you are successful, you will inevitably make the world a worse place. That's not my opinion. That is the results of the research. That is the data. That is what we see coming out. Again, more discrimination, more war and conflict, more authoritarianism, okay? More, uh, spousal abuse, okay? Um, less political stability, less education, lower life expectancies for women. This is why the data is so important because if I was just going to get up here, sit up here and give you my opinions, we'd get nowhere because it would just be his opinion versus mine. What's the tiebreaker? What are the facts? These are the facts. This is why I always go to the studies because I want to give you facts so you know what reality is. The rest of your points were irrelevant for the topic of the debate, so I'm not going to address them, but I appreciate it.

Over to the rebuttal from Junior as well. I've got the timer set for you for 10 minutes. Junior, the floor is all yours.

Thank you. Thank you, James. I hope that's not an Israeli tattoo on your forearm. I really hope I'm not debating an MSAD agent today. Thought you said that our prophet said we're going to hit women. I've never hit my wife and I think you're a liar because there are several hadiths that explicitly forbid hitting women. Sahih Muslim, the messenger of Allah said, "Do not strike the female servants of Allah." I am a servant of Allah. Everyone is a servant of Allah. I say Jesus is a servant of Allah. Jesus did the will of his father. Right? It's not a disrespectful thing. Every single creation, there is a verse in the Quran that says it is not befitting for God to have a son. Everything in this world in the heavens and earth is a servant of Allah. And Allah knows them by their numbers. He knows every single one of them. So Allah, when he creates, he creates and he knows his creation. You said that the prophet tells us to hit our wives. I didn't expect that from you, Michael. That's it's a blatant lie. Surah Abu Dawud became angry when some men hit their wives. Those are hadiths that you're speaking on because hadiths are simply conversations. They are not laws. They are not recommendations. A hadith does not stand on its own without the Quran. And the Quran does not say to hit women. I dare you to bring me a verse in the Quran that says to strike women. You can't. Next hadith. Yeah, I know. He got excited on that. He's like, "Yeah, I'm gonna find it." You can't. I have a Quran right here. You want to take it? Hadith three, Mustad Ahmed. "Could any of you beat your wife as he beats a slave and then lie with her in the evening?" This is the prophet condemning hitting totally. You don't even want to know what happened to the guy who beat his wife until she got green. Hadith four, Bukhari, his youngest wife, the most controversial marriage out of his 11 marriages. She said, "The prophet never struck anything with his hand. Neither a woman nor a servant." So are you calling Aisha a liar? Because clearly Islam is built on the actions of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Not his words, not the advice that he gave to people. We follow the Sunnah, which is his actions. He never hit a woman. Why should I? Because Michael Jones tells me to? No. Because I'm poor or because I'm an alcoholic? I don't drink alcohol. The Quran never, and I know you're going to jump to chapter 4, verse 34. You cannot use that verse to say Quran says harm women. Okay? The Arabic word has 40 linguistic meanings. If he tries to stick to one of them and make his point, he's conceded the entire debate. To anybody who's serious and understands the Quran, they're never going to believe what Michael Jones has to say. The meaning, the specific linguistic meaning of the word, let me teach you, I'm I'm Muslim. I read Arabic. I read the Quran. It means to separate from her. When your woman gives you a hard time, leave the room. If she keeps giving you a hard time and she doesn't take, you know, you leaving the room as a sign that maybe she did something wrong and she keeps going, then leave the house. That's what he didn't say about the hadith that he mentioned. It says to leave the house, not to hit her, not to insult her, not to escalate the matters. And if she still doesn't get better, she's still oppressing you as a husband, then you have the right to divorce her. So even in Islam, you're not allowed to divorce your wife if she's annoying. You can't do that. You can't just divorce your wife unjustly. There are so many hadiths, so many hadiths from the prophet that condemn divorcing a woman unjustly. He even went as far as marrying divorced women who were divorced unjustly. He went as far as marrying widows who were suffering so greatly that all they needed was a home, a loving home and a strong man. And that is what he provided for them. But unfortunately, we live in a society today where people consume porn, people consume a lot of degenerate content, people consume so much negativity that if you live around that and try to understand Islam, it's never going to it's never going to happen. You need to go into the woods for 3 months, isolate yourself, cleanse yourself, ground.

yourself on the ground, walk barefoot. When's the last time you did that, Michael Jones? I dare you after this debate, leave this room, go outside, walk on the grass barefoot.

You need to isolate yourself from Western society and western propaganda to understand the true meaning of Islam. Islam is better for humanity because you cannot prove that it's not good for humanity. Rainbow flags in a church. You'll never see that in a mosque. Don't tell me to go to the church as a Muslim if there's a rainbow flag on that big door. I'm not going in there.

Yes, Islam causes more violence. It causes more problems. But you know what? But you know what? You know what? It also has very severe punishments for those who cause violence and cause problems. Because Islam came as a religion for all of mankind, everyone. Not the Arab, not the English person who doesn't know how to read. No, it came for everyone. God said this is a book for all of mankind. This is a literal verse in the Quran. So, I'm not speaking from my own will when I say Islam is better for humanity. I'm speaking on behalf of every single human soul.

Christians need education, too. You say Muslims need education. Well, Christians need education, too. You guys are genociding Palestine. You don't want to take credit for that. You don't want to take credit for supporting Israel and killing my family. Shame on you. I thought you were better than that with that MSAD tattoo on your forearm. They're not going to send you that $7,000 check after this debate. Michael, why are you talking to a Muslim if you don't want to learn? You don't want to learn. You don't think Christians need education about Islam? You don't think the division in this country is really bad? You didn't even condemn the genocide in Gaza, man. You said, "What about the genocide in Nigeria?" I condemned the genocide in Nigeria. Any Muslim killing a Christian in Nigeria, I hope to God that when Jesus returns, he will make an example out of you for humanity. Because Muslims who kill are some of the worst people.

But you know what? In Christianity, salvation is exclusive to Christians. Islam, salvation is non-exclusive to Muslims. It is available and provided for every single creation. Islam tells you to earn salvation, all you have to do is have a mustard seed weight of faith in your heart. That's a very powerful and famous biblical parable if you guys know it. If you have a mustard seed weight of faith in your heart, you will enter heaven. What are we worried about? What are we worried about? Why are we worried about who's right and wrong? If we both believe in Jesus, if we both believe Jesus is the Messiah, if we both believe Jesus is returning, what is the reason that we need to be divided? You have your reasons. I don't have any.

Islam is better for humanity because Muslims do not seek to be divided from the people. When my wife puts on the hijab, she looks like Virgin Mary. I can't look at her and insult her. I can't look at her and think any negative thought. I can't even look at her past and think, "Oh, maybe she's not pure. Maybe, you know, because she's a western gal and she's wearing this covering on her head, it has to be a lie. Women have the choice to wear whatever they want in the West. You're never going to take that right away. You're never going to take the hijab off of women's heads. It will always be here, Michael. It will always be here in America.

>> Switch it over to Mike for his five-minute rebuttal. I have the timer set for you, Mike, on your first word. Well, this has never happened before where my opponent conceded the debate, but thank you. I appreciate that. As everyone was clapping, yes, you conceded the debate because you said, "Yes, Islam causes more violence." And in your prior opening statement, you said, "Yeah, there's less education." All right. So you've conceded that.

>> So um that anyway now he says this is a MSAD tattoo. This is Hosea 4:6. Did Msad write the Bible? U isn't it sacred scripture for Christians? Wasn't it written in Hebrew? Okay, great. And by the way, Hosea 4:6 is my people are destroyed for lack >> single person in the audience can read that. >> I do have to keep this constrained to just Mike speaking during Mike's rebuttal. >> Yeah, thank you. Can you give me a little more time there? Yeah, this is Hosea 4:6. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. I have it on there to remind me so I don't make opening statements like that. All right. Uh he says uh there's hadith that forbid hitting women. He's right. This is the problem with the hadith. They're filled with contradictions. If you want to find a hadith that allows mutarriage, you can find it. If you want one that out outlaws it, you can find it. I'm just simply pointing out. I didn't say the prophet tells Muslims to hit their wives. Didn't say that. I didn't say the prophet hit his wives. I said there is a hadith where he does give permission. I also never said hit women. He brought up surah 434. But according to commentators like Iben Kafir, that does refer to beating. He said it means uh if advice and ignoring her in the bed do not produce the desired results, you're allowed to discipline the wife without severe beating. So again, it's referring to beating, not severe. I'll give them that. That's still happening though. Okay. Uh he said earlier, I didn't say Jesus is coming back. Yeah, that's not the debate. Yeah, Jesus is coming back. But I mean, I could just say you didn't say that the moon landing was real, therefore you must deny the moon landing. like this is absurd. Okay, that's not the debate. Uh he said, "I cannot prove Islam is not good." I did. And even if I couldn't, that is what we call a fallacy. It's called the argument from ignorance. Okay? You have to prove it's good. I don't have to prove it's not good. And I demonstrated a bunch of research that Christianity is better. He conceded Islam causes more violence. He said we are genociding Palestine. Again, we are not. I said if there's one happening there, I fully condemn it. I do not know. There's so much propaganda going out there right now. I don't have time to research it. If there is a genocide, I completely 100% condemn it and Israel should be ashamed. Okay? But again, so much propaganda has been going around. I have no idea what to say about this. If it is there, I fully condemn it and I condemn Israel for it there. Okay? He says in Islam, there's non-exclusive salvation. Great. Everyone be a Christian. You get to go to heaven in two religions. Now, >> you get the point. If you're go if we're going to heaven in Islam, but you're not going to heaven as a Muslim, okay, then that just is a great argument for Christianity practic pragmatically speaking because now you profess Jesus as Lord, but you you're wrong by some sheer luck. Guess what? You still go to heaven in Islam. Okay, you you've covered the two world major religions. Congratulations, everybody. You did it. So, yeah, there there's that. I I man, I I don't know what else to say here. I mean there was just there's not a lot of stuff to address here because again I have said if we're going to study this we look at it from a sociological perspective we can just we see studies comparing Islam Christianity Christianity always comes out on top okay and all the studies I brought up always comes out on top therefore Christianity is better if Islam leads to less education if it leads to more violence that's the debate there That that's the end of the debate right there. He's conceded at that point. Therefore, Christianity is better. He's not shown any way that Christ that Islam is better. I need to see some actual data. His opinions are not good enough. And I got to I want to reiterate, I'm not accusing him of all the problems I brought up. He is a Western Muslim. He's influenced by the West. He is a good person as far as I can tell. He's not beating his wife as far as I can tell. And I would never accuse him of that without actual clear evidence of it. So, I just want to be clear about this, okay? I'm going on what the actual data shows. If you're offended by the data, you're offended by facts. This is a debate about the research. If you're going to debate which is better, you need to come with actual facts because this is a sociological debate, not a mere religious or philosophical one. That is the most important point here. And if we're conceding that there's less education, more violence in Islam, game over. Christianity creates better societies. And again, the results speak for themselves. Where is everyone immigrating to? The world, the society, the civilization that Christianity built, the society we built that ended slavery, that gave value to children, that fostered and helped develop modern science, that educated the world by creating thou like hundreds of written languages around the world so people could read the Bible. Okay, this is the this is the religion that has made the world great.

>> With that, we will switch it over to Junior for his five-minute rebuttal as well. The timer set for you, Junior. >> Thank you. That's the same religion responsible for the Holocaust, by the way. Look, I'll be honest, Michael. Honestly, debating you is way too easy because look, I I'll be honest. I'll be honest. You ran out of things to say. You retracted your statement condemning the genocide in Gaza. You said, "If there's a genocide in Gaza, I condemn it." You have been exposed to the whole world today, Michael, and you don't even know it because you're so arrogant. You're so arrogant that you read a Hebrew verse to your English audience and you expect one of them to read it. Nobody can read this verse. Nobody can read Hebrew in your audience. You have a Hebrew tattoo and you're showing it off. That's a simple sign of your arrogance. Society is built by people, not by robots, not by systems. People, Michael, you have not shown me that you're a good person. I've shown you. I did a good job of that. You didn't. That's the difference. Muslims leave their house every day to show humanity that they can provide value, that they can add value because every single human being in this world is a stranger. Every single human being in this world has been created by God and is returning to God. No one is staying here forever. So to tell me that Muslims who literally do not fear death are bad for humanity. No, my friend. You need people to die for Jesus. You You wouldn't die for Jesus, Michael. I would. I would die for Jesus. If Jesus returned and told me to march for him, I would march for him. If Jesus told me to die for him, I would die for him. But you don't understand why a Muslim would think that. How come a Muslim is thinking that? He clearly has to be a good Muslim, right? The bad Muslims clearly say something else. The bad Muslims would never say what Junior says. Junior is a heretic. He doesn't speak from the Quran. Let me show you a verse from the Quran. Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted from him. Can you debate that? Can you debate the verse that God revealed about religion? You're telling me that religion makes society better or is it the person? Muslims, okay, have not been given a chance to show what they are capable of doing for society. Your algorithm on your feed that feeds you all the information that you know about Christianity was made by a Muslim. Algebra was made by a Muslim. The number zero was made by a Muslim. Modern science would not be a thing if it wasn't for Muslims. Have some respect. We are both followers of Jesus. When you say that Islam is not better for humanity, it's because you're taking hadith out of context. You prove that. You prove that there are hadiths that contradict what you said. I think you can see a debate, my friend. I think you really ended your career tonight, bro. You ended your career. I'm a 27-year-old Palestinian Muslim that suffered genocide for 700 days and you're calling me a bad person when you couldn't even condemn the genocide in Gaza. You said if there's a genoc if did my family die or not? Oh, let me check. Let me check the pictures. if they died. Let me see if if they're green enough for Michael to know that they're dead and they're severely harmed. I didn't cry on stage today because I don't have fear. The Bible says do not be afraid 365 times. That means why should you even have fear for a single day of your life? Why should you be afraid of being wrong? Why should you be afraid of making a mistake? Why? That's what Michael's trying to make you believe. That's what most Christians make you believe. You make a single mistake, you believe Jesus is not God. Guess what? No salvation for you, my friend. But in Islam, it's different. If you seek God, your creator, without knowing him, he will have mercy over you. Michael doesn't believe that. But the Quran says that the Quran literally explicitly states it literally explicitly states that you will never enter heaven by your deeds or your works and that religion is not compulsory. So Islam is better for humanity.

>> We're going to jump into the open dialogue. I'm willing to give it a shot as a purely spontaneous dialogue, but if there are interruptions, I'll have to jump into 90-second responses. Floor is yours, gentlemen.

>> You you said on X that Islam is against child marriage. Can you back that up?

>> Is there an age of marriage mentioned in the Bible?

>> That wasn't my question.

>> Answer my question and I'll answer yours.

>> No.

>> Okay, I won't answer your question.

>> You're not going to answer my question?

>> No. Okay, then I'm going to say that Islam does allow and promote child marriage.

>> I would say that the legal age of consent in the United States was 12 years old in the 1900s and that America is a failed country by your logic. But I don't think that

>> Wait a minute. Is it is it now?

>> No.

>> Then we made moral progress. Congratulations. Can Islam do the same thing, please?

>> America is not a failed country. You know why? Because they changed the consent laws as the biological age of human beings.

>> Why did we do that though?

>> Why? Because if you have a society where the lifespan is 40 years old, the woman's going to get married at 9 years old whether you like it or not because she has only 30 years to live. Whether you like it or not, that is the reality of the world in the past.

>> Wait, you think everyone was marrying at 9 100 years ago?

>> What age did Rebecca get married in the Bible?

>> It doesn't say.

>> It doesn't say.

>> Show me. Show me where it says the age Rebecca was married.

>> Okay. What age did Mary give birth to Jesus in the proto evangelism?

>> Probably late teens.

>> Late teens.

>> Yeah. According to the research by Michael Young teenager says who

>> she was

>> says who

>> she was bithro after her after her

>> after her first

>> menstrual cycle bro you should watch

>> she was able to become pregnant and that's that's how she got bithro to Joseph

>> yeah actual research

>> have to hit puberty in order to get bithro to a husband so when was able to get pregnant that's when she became eligible for marriage she was previously engaged age to another man before she was engaged to prophet Muhammad peace be upon you let me respond or you keep going okay so let's first of all let's talk about the child marriage thing in Mary u research done by Michael Satlo am trooper shows that in Palestine in the first century on average girls were marrying between their late teens and early 20s this idea that she was a young teen not supported by the data out there in fact if you read books like medieval maidens research by Keith Hopkins and Brent Shaw you literally just said she's a young let me finish

>> you said she's a young teenager

>> I said Oh, I said late teens.

>> Okay. Teenager.

>> Okay. Yeah. Late teens to early 20s. Okay.

>> Late teens is four years difference between early teen and late teen. It's four years.

>> Okay. Now, let's talk about Aisha. Let's talk about Aisha. So, you think she hit puberty? You say she hit puberty?

>> Yes, she

>> What's the research that shows that?

>> The research shows that there are hadith mentioned where she played with dolls. And this hadith is very controversial and it's very important.

>> I'm glad you brought that up. Damn, that's great.

>> Old girls older than 16 years old are not allowed to play with dolls. She played with dolls. She was older than 16.

>> Wait a minute. Wait. If she played with dolls, that means she's younger than that.

>> No, no, no. In Islam, it's forbidden to play with dolls if you are a teenager.

>> Yeah, that means when she was she was a child.

>> No, she wasn't a child because it was allowed in the household. She said that the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him gave her allowed her if the hadith said I was allowed to play with my friends with my dolls. Her friends were younger. She was the oldest. She was the scholar. She was the one who served in war. She was the one who memorized 2,000 hadith. She's the one who's called the mother of all believers.

>> The prophet let her sin then because it's forbidden to play with dolls if you're a teenager.

>> But here's her sin.

>> Here's the problem.

>> You let her sin, right?

>> Here's the problem. Don't ask me a question that you're not going to like the answer to.

>> I'm giving you plenty of good answers. Have you heard of the study evolution development in the timing of puberty which shows that in the middle ages in the medieval period it's impossible biologically speaking for a girl to have reached the age of monarchy by the age of nine. They earliest it started was 11.

>> You're you're telling me that was 9 years old.

>> Yeah, that's what the hadith says 5134 of Bakari.

>> Are you ready to stand on judgment day to prove that to God?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> So there's nothing to talk about here.

>> All right, great. cuz I'm not a hadith scholar and I definitely definitely don't take every single hadith literally. I as a Muslim have my own personal opinions and I'm allowed to have that. I believe and I was 19 years old when the marriage was consummated and she got married when she was 17. Some some sources say 16.

>> I believe she was late teens as well.

>> Let's go. That's wild.

>> You want do you want You're going to ask me for evidence? Do you do you believe in tough seers?

>> Do you believe in the tough seers?

>> He knows I have evidence. That's why he's not asking me for it.

>> He's just going to show evidence that his hadith contradict themselves. Great. That's wonderful. Islam is filled with contradictions.

>> I I dare you when you go home to ask Chadi how old was Aisha when she got married according to Esma's age. This ends your entire narrative behind this marriage. Marriage. I'm perfectly fine saying the hadith are filled with contradictions. I'm perfectly fine with that. But do you take what do you think of the tough seers? Like I kir do do you agree with his taps?

>> Look, I have a tap of the Quran right here. Okay. And all a taps means is explanation.

>> Okay. Then can you read Surah 654?

>> A certain publisher. Sure, I can read.

>> Yeah, read it in English because you know you guys can't read anything.

>> Beautiful. I'm I'm glad you're asking me to read the Quran.

>> Yeah, read Surah 654 and then I want to read uh Ibasier's uh taps about that one.

>> Sure.

>> 654, please. Just want to apologize to the audience. Apparently over a man.

>> 654.

>> This is the command of Allah that he has sent down to you. And whoever fears Allah, he will write off his evil deeds and will give him a huge reward. Is that the right verse?

>> I don't know. Is it? Cuz I have the tough seas up here and that they're talking. You want me to read the verse before it?

>> Verse before it. And those women from among you who have despared of further menstruation, if you are in doubt, their ida is 3 months. As well as of those who have not yet menrated,

>> not yet.

>> Those who have a medical condition.

>> As for those having pregnancy, their term of is that they give birth to their child.

>> Is medical conditions in the Arabic?

>> Uh, I'll read you the taps here because I'm not going to give you my own. All right, I'll give you mine then after that.

>> This you're not a Muslim scholar.

>> This is in in this in this kind of

>> take your time. It's all right.

>> In I'm just I'm trying to make sure I read the right uh fine verse.

>> In this verse means the period in which a divorce woman cannot marry another man. For a divorce woman, this period is three full periods of menstruation. So this verse specifically talks about divorcees and the chapter is called the divorce. Go ahead.

>> All right. Let's read what I even kir says on this verse. He says uh so for example her is 3 months instead of the three monthly cycle for those who menrate which is based upon the ayah in surah albak. The same for the young who have not reached the years of menration. So it doesn't just say divorced or women with medical condition. It includes young girls who have not yet menrated. Therefore, Allah gives permission for child marriage. You can apparently, if you're a Muslim man, marry a girl even if she has not menrated, which is abhorently evil.

>> Is this really what you took away from a chapter about divorce? What I read is like the husband are obligated to provide residence to their divorcees wives during the period of so if you divorce your wife, you're supposed to keep her in your house and provide for her and give her shelter and feed her for 3 months. What does the Bible say about a man who rapes a virgin?

>> Doesn't say that. But you you're you know more than I

>> don't deflect. You know more than I kir.

>> Don't deflect.

>> You didn't give me a verse. Do you know more?

>> I'm reading the tap from the Quran. I literally told you you're not a Muslim scholar. You will never understand what means. You don't even understand the root word of

>> Okay. So, you know more than I kir. I just want to verify. Right.

>> You don't even know what the word means.

>> I don't know more than I kir.

>> Iban Kafir says you can have sex with prepusan girls.

>> Iben Kafir never said that.

>> I just read it to you. The same for the young who have not reached the years of menration. Taps on surah 654.

>> Okay. How many women around the world have never menstruated?

>> Do you deny their rights as women?

>> Uh, no.

>> The Quran doesn't. That's why it mentions them.

>> That has nothing to do with my point. I mean,

>> if the Quran was mentioning young children, it would have said children. It wouldn't have used the word women.

>> Yeah. It talks about those who have not menrated, which would include children.

>> There are women who have never menrated.

>> They're in that category, too. It includes the young girls.

>> They're not children.

>> Yeah, I know. It includes those who have not menrated, some women, and also the young girls.

>> So, where does Iban Cathe say that?

>> I just read it to you in his tough state.

>> You want to read it again?

>> The same for the young who have not reached the years of menration.

>> Ibn Abbas said something similar. He says, "What about the waiting period for those who have not menrated because they are too young along with those who have not? Because of young age, their waiting period is three months."

>> Okay. So, these are divorcees, right? No, it's it you're divorcing them that young. I mean, holy man, that's even worse. They're going through multiple marriages. This is abuse.

>> This this chapter is literally about divorcees.

>> Okay.

>> You You denied that. You just said, "No, it's not."

>> I didn't say that. I said it includes them.

>> You said that this chapter's interpretation leads to Muslims saying, "I can [ __ ] a child."

>> That's what you're saying. A Muslim is not allowed to [ __ ] a child.

>> Then why is that? A Muslim who [ __ ] a child will be beheaded and shot.

>> I hope so.

>> Yes.

>> AMEN. BROTHER, WHY WHY ISN'T the law in America reflecting that? Why do you guys have pedophiles that are celebrated like Jeffrey Epstein all around the media? Everyone used to be around him. All of your favorite athletes and pastors and favorite influencers, they all did business. I'm sure I went to Jeffrey Epste's island.

>> I'm sure not a single Muslim on that horrible people on that list.

>> There's not a single Muslim on the Epstein list.

>> Yeah, cuz they don't have to stay hidden. They just go to a Muslim country and do it apparently.

>> I mean, what's the what's the point here?

>> Look,

>> the point is that in America they have to hide. if they run around with their billions and hide because they know if we see it there that we know what's going to happen. The pitchforks will come out. That's why they're trying to hide this because they know that in this society we condemn that. Meanwhile, you go to Iraq. What's the age of a marriage in Iraq right now?

>> I don't even know.

>> It's pretty low. Like 15 or 12 depending on Ser or Shia or Sunni.

>> 15 is low for you?

>> Yeah, it's low. Yeah.

>> What about Sam Shimoon?

>> Yeah, he's evil.

>> What about David Wood?

>> Yeah, what he did was evil. They both raped under 15 years old.

>> Yeah. What they did was evil. Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> So, you condemn them?

>> Yes, I do condemn it. Yes.

>> Would you accept them into your church?

>> Depends. Because in Christianity, we have to look at things. Did they repent? Did they serve their time? Did they go through spiritual penance? Did have they been forgiven? Yes. In Christianity, we believe that if you go to prison, you serve out your spiritual penance, you repent, you accept Christianity, and then you show that you have actually reformed, like being married to someone for, you know, decades and not cheat on them, then yes, we accept them back into the fold, the same you would in Islam, right?

>> Great. Okay. So, when a chapter comes as a revelation about divorce, don't you think it's for people who have made mistakes?

>> Not according to your scholars.

>> The Bible condemns divorce. The Bible

>> Yeah. condemns divorce.

>> Divorce is a bad thing to begin with.

>> Amen.

>> Preach, brother.

>> It's not a good thing.

>> Preach, brother.

>> Half of American families are divorced. It's not a This is not a good thing. It's

>> horrible. Yes,

>> it's horrible. We should be crying right now, not laughing.

>> My goal is to fix America. My goal as a Muslim. I want to speak. I want to put my face out there for the sake of God, the God of Jesus, so that I can make this country better. I hope that today I came and proved that. Michael, you literally didn't tell me what the age of marriage is in the Bible.

>> Uh because in the Bible we have virtue ethics. You know what that is?

>> Virtue ethics.

>> You know what that is?

>> There's not a single verse that mentions virtue ethics in the Bible.

>> That's because it's called an interpretation. Kind of like how isn't in the Quran, right?

>> Are you heretically preaching right now?

>> Only if is heretical because it's not in the Quran.

>> Is heretical? I'm asking you if it if it doesn't say the specific words does that mean it's a heresy

>> means oneness

>> where is it in the Quran where does it sayed

>> oneness okay

>> okay great virtues of the Bible

>> virtue ethics

>> yep you know what that is

>> those two words do not show up in the Bible at all

>> doesn't matter ethics do not show up in the Bible oneness of God is literally in the final chapter of the Quran chapter 14 chapter 114 verse 1 to4 say Allah is one say God is one

>> does not beget nor does he begott

>> he wasn't begotten nor does he beget

>> so if he is firm does not depend on anyone and he has no partners

>> this is a Quran chapter okay literally speaks about

>> okay if you go you want to know you're going to ignore it if you don't want to know what the Bible says You don't care.

>> James,

>> what is this? Is back and forth. What are you complaining to James about?

>> I do want Go ahead, Mike.

>> Thank you, James. I appreciate that. He's such a swell fellow. So, he talks about age of consent in the Bible. We can go to Ezekiel 16. So, here

>> there is no age of consent in the Bible. Period.

>> James,

>> I do want to give I do want I do want to give Mike a chance to finish his sentence, though. So, if he's mid-sentence, that's where it's

>> Thank you, James. You're swell fell over there. All right. Right. So, Ezekiel 16, we see an analogy between God and Israel. Okay? And this is where it talks about, and scholars have noted this. I noted this in my debate with Daniel Kikuchu, that what the Bible says is love making cannot occur until after puberty is complete. So, talks about uh when I pass by you again, behold, you're at age for love. And it talks about this is after puberty is complete. You read starting from verse 5 and you read to verse uh 8, you'll see that. So, scholars have noted this. So, when is puberty complete for girls? It's not complete till the ages of 15 to 17. That's why we legally assign adulthood at 18. That's the age right after. So if you're going to go one the principles of the Bible, sex cannot occur until after puberty is complete. Okay? Based on the principles of the Bible. When is that basically done? 18. Because again, it's completed during the ages of 15 to 17. That's when hip development is complete. That's why we sign adulthood to 18. Because that's right after the age is complete. So principles of the Bible based on God's analogy in Ezekiel 16. Okay? He doesn't pass by Jerusalem until after all of that is complete, till she's fully formed is what he says. So there's the age of consent.

>> So why are there women getting married before puberty in the Bible? Can you answer that one?

>> Where?

>> Is it a description or a prescription?

>> Here's the problem, Michael.

>> Oh boy.

>> You said that women should not have sex before puberty. I agree, but women should not have sex before marriage either. And a lot of women get married before puberty. That is a common thing in societies with a short lifespan. When the lifespan of a human being is 40 years old, don't cut me out. James. James.

>> James.

>> I think he self-restrained himself. He was going to

>> in in a society where the average lifespan is 40 years old. The woman is going to get married before puberty.

>> What data shows that? every single historical cut. Every sing every really.

>> Yeah. Really? Because I got studies to say that doesn't happen.

>> Look, we can do the semantics. We can do the fun stuff, but I'm talking seriously right now. The Quran, Ibn Kafir never said to have sex with a child. Ib Kafir never said to have sex before puberty. Ibn Kafir never said to have sex before marriage. These are all contradictory to the doctrine of the Quran. So you said that it was a common thing. What about what Brent Shaw says in the age of Roman girls at marriage? Some considerations. What about what Michael Satlo says in Jewish marriage and antiquity? Uh all of these guys are pointing out that no, it was late teens to early 20s when girls in the ancient world were getting married on average.

>> Okay, Michael, based on your argument, the laws of the Bible change, which I don't agree with because I don't think the law of God changes. But you're trying to make the argument. You're trying to make the argument that, oh, if the age of puberty is 12, so she's going to get married at 15, 17, and the legal age is 18, so let's just move those numbers around whenever we want and it's not based on anything fixed

>> like science.

>> But I say it's science. The lifespan of a human being is what you're supposed to base the age of marriage on, not on your opinions. Seriously,

>> you don't even have a verse in the Bible that tells you what age to marry. You based it based on puberty.

>> What? There are

>> girls in the Bible who get married before puberty.

>> Hey, audience, you know what I love about the Bible?

>> Does the Bible contradict itself, Michael?

>> You know what I love about the Bible, guys? The Bible doesn't think you're an idiot. It thinks you can rationally infer from the principles it lays out and you can use science in the natural world to help you understand what is sinful. That's what's good about the Bible that God gave us. He considers you a rational soul and you don't have to be let along like a toddler. Oh, this age is okay. That's why Islam is too restrictive. It's basically the ethics of the seventh century. Doesn't allow for moral progress. Doesn't allow us to reason from the harm we see in scientific research. Whereas in Christianity, there's flexibility but still guidance. And that is why we see far better results coming out of Christian societies than whatever Islam.

>> Is it is it flexibility when a Bible tells a rapist to marry the virgin that he raped and pay her father 50 silver shekels?

>> Where does it go? Where did God say that? You're going to go to Deuteronomy 22.

>> God didn't say that. Someone wrote that in the Bible and you claim that that is the word of God.

>> Why don't you read the prayer verses?

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. Read the prayer verses about the woman in the field.

>> Woman in the field. I just told you that there is a verse in the Bible. Okay. That says a rapist. A rapist.

>> It says rapist.

>> Yes. A person who forcefully forces themselves on a woman sexually.

>> Start in verse 25, please. One second.

>> 22:20. I can read it. You want me to read second? I don't want you to read anything. Let me finish my point. James,

>> that's fine. You can wear the clock down. You know where this is going.

>> James,

>> look, I'll read the verse for you and then we can move on. Deuteronomy 22:28.

>> Starting 25.

>> 29. James

>> 25.

>> Let's Let's give Junior a chance. Go ahead, Junior. If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father 50 shekels of silver.

>> What version is that?

>> He must marry the young woman for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. That is the Bible, my friend.

>> What is version is that? What version are you reading from?

>> New English version, King James version, all the main

>> No, you're reading from the NIV.

>> No, no, no.

>> Yeah, you are.

>> So, you're denying the NIV.

>> Yeah, the NIV is crap. I would never say that about a tapier of the Quran by the way.

>> Yeah. The word is not actually rape.

>> That right there should be a sign that Islam is literally better for humanity because we actually respect our religion. We would never call even the Bible. We would never call it what Michael just called.

>> What's the word in Hebrew?

>> The word in Hebrew,

>> it means to handle, to catch.

>> It's rape.

>> Why don't you start in verse 25? Because here's the thing about Deuteronomy 22. Let's talk about this two analogies.

>> No, listen. You Christian apologists do do this to Muslims all day long. I'm going to do it to you today.

>> He gives two analogies. The first one is a woman caught in the field. That man is put to death because he seizes her and no one is crying out. The analogy he's talking about, notice it says they are caught. This is about them both. And it says they're in the city because if she would have cried out, someone would have heard them because in those cities, they were very collectivist. They were very tight-knit. You couldn't do that. So this is the difference. You got to start in verse 25. see the man is who's raping her in the field versus the next analogy which is a couple caught in the city together. So you got to actually go beyond this and look at the context.

>> Look, I'll bring someone from the audience right now. If if you really like if you really want me to prove my point, bro, I can because it literally says in Deuteronomy 22:28-29. Anyone at home can Google this. By the way, Michael cannot save you, okay? Because he does not even know his Bible. That's the problem. People like Michael don't talk about Jesus' return because they get paid to do this instead.

>> I don't get paid. I literally faced and suffered a genocide for 700 days. Not literally, but I lived through my phone, through the pain of my family, through the deaths of my brothers and sisters in Gaza.

>> No, it's not horrible. You don't believe it's horrible.

>> It is. Okay. Then it's great. You say it's great. What?

>> Yeah, that's what I would like you to say because that's your truth.

>> No, you want me to say it so you can click today. We're here to speak truthfully to better humanity. We want every single person in the audience to walk out today and feel like they actually gained something. Why is the word for seas different in Deuteronomy 22:25 in Deuteronomy 22:28? Why do they use a different word for seas?

>> You see how he keeps running back to Deuteronomy 22?

>> That's where you went.

>> He wants to save himself even though it's already over. I'm just asking you questions, man. Why can't you answer?

>> Now, what I'm trying to do is add value to the audience. I want to stop debating and to begin adding value to the audience because I'm not here to cause more division. Like

>> James, how much time do we have left?

>> Have about 8 minutes left.

>> Great. You guys have got eight minutes of debate. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm still here, baby.

>> Look, I'll be honest with you, Michael. Debating you was probably the easiest thing I've ever done.

>> Yeah, you did so well.

>> I I didn't sleep. Literally didn't sleep.

>> I believe it. I fasted. I literally came from my house, didn't eat a single bit of food, drank some water in the airport, grabbed a pack of liquid IV, didn't even drink it. Yet, I sat here confidently after facing 700 days of genocide and was able to critically think and convince the audience why Islam is better for humanity.

>> You're bringing the audience in. Audience, who's convinced of Junior's arguments? Raise your hand.

>> By simply,

>> who's convinced of my argument? RAISE YOUR HAND. OH, WA. YOU BROUGHT THE AUDIENCE IN. WHAT does the audience say?

>> Every single point that you made has been disproved about Islam.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. So, remind me which point.

>> I have seven minutes now to add value to the audience.

>> What point was disproved?

>> If you can let me speak, please, and explain why Islam is better for humanity.

>> Oh, finally. We will be waiting for this. Go ahead, please.

>> No, Michael. I I came to confront you because you insult our beloved prophet Muhammad peace be upon him behind a screen and you think that Muslims will not come and confront you, right? You don't think a Muslim will actually show up for a debate >> of your of your choosing. You chose the the topic, by the way.

>> Thank you for coming. I appreciate it. You're very brave.

>> All the Christians, by the way, to I think maybe this is a value proposition. Every Christian out there when you debate a Muslim, choose the topic. Otherwise, they will mop the floor with you because this is not this is not a game. When when you talk about religion and you don't even speak the language of Jesus, Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, do you speak those languages? No, you don't. I speak Arabic. So, I understand my book. You don't. And I've made that clear today. You do not understand the Bible, Michael. You keep running around certain verses and interpretations, but in the end, it's clear that you don't follow the Bible as a literal word of God. Okay? I follow the Quran as a literal word of God. You've met me today and you said, "This is a good person." Okay? I live according to the Quran. So if I'm a good person, then clearly I'm proof that Islam is better than for humanity. Let me tell you something, Michael.

>> Are you done filibustering?

>> I literally I literally had a dream where I met Jesus Christ.

>> Okay, MLK.

>> I have a dream.

>> I had a dream. Look, he's making fun of me when I'm talking about Jesus Christ. And he calls himself a Christian.

>> You should read what Jesus did sometimes. Sometimes he was

>> That's what Christians do in church, by the way. They discriminate. They discriminate against questioning. Not at the level Muslims do. Apparently,

>> this is why I would never be a Catholic or a Protestant. Because if I go to a church and I ask a question, what answers am I going to get? What answers am I going to get? Go read the Bible. Go talk to Michael. I'm not talking to Michael. I'm talking to God. I'm talking to my Quran. The literal word of God. Michael, it's clear you've never opened the Quran.

>> I have read the Quran.

>> What are the six pillars of faith in Islam? So you got to believe in Allah. Got to believe in his decrees. Okay. Got to believe in

>> decrees. What decrees?

>> His prophets.

>> What decrees?

>> The last day and his books.

>> Repeat that again.

>> Okay. So Allah, his angels. Okay. His decrees. Okay. His Do you want me to pull them up for you, man? If you don't believe me, you said decrees plural, right? His divine decree is singular. Okay. His decrees. Where did you read this from? Do you even understand what the six pillars of faith?

>> Good lord, guys. He's got me. Plural singular issue. Oh, man. It's over.

>> The six pillars of the six pillars of faith.

>> I will never I want the audience to earn salvation. Michael, I want the audience to go to heaven. God says in the Bible, whoever has a mustard seed weight of faith in their heart will enter heaven.

>> How does this show Islam is better than Christian?

>> I want all of you to enter heaven because Muslims want salvation for everyone. You only want salvation for people in your church.

>> False.

>> That is the difference.

>> Where where does it say that?

>> You want salvation for the people who believe the same thing you believe in.

>> Where does the Bible say that? Where's the Bible say that?

>> I know you will die with your beliefs. I will die with my beliefs. You have your God. I have my God. You have your religion. I have my religion. Islam respects that. It makes that very clear. Without Islam, there would be no Christianity today. Without Islam, there would be no Judaism today. Without Islam, there would be no religion today. We have 2.3 billion Muslims, 1.69 billion Sunni Muslims. Sunni

Islam is the largest denomination of religion in the world. If we were not good for humanity, we would have already destroyed it.

"I can't believe I wasted time preparing for this."

"You didn't waste time."

"You literally wasted 15 minutes in your opening statement showing research that couldn't even prove why Christianity is better."

"That's right, folks. Research is a waste. Two-minute warning."

"Islam causes more violence. Islam causes more aggression."

"Say that Islam punishes those who do violence so severely that they won't they won't do the violence anymore."

"Calm down."

"That's not the same thing. In America, America rewards pedophiles. America extradites pedophiles to Israel because Israel Jews are the Jews are God's chosen people."

"Didn't you agree that Islam causes more violence?"

"The Quran doesn't say Jews are are God's chosen people. Christians say Jews are God's chosen people. This entire like theological statement is very destructive to humanity. It's bad to humanity. You're killing us in Palestine with this idea."

"Finishing."

"Okay. You agreed Islam causes more violence. Debate over. Is Christianity is far better because we can build societies that produce less violence, less discrimination. I'll remind you again, the data shows there is five times the level of discrimination in Muslim majority countries than in Christian ones as Jonathan Fox and Fininky has shown. Debate over. There's nothing."

"Just like America is Christianity is far better. Just like America is seeking to be violent to fix the problems in its country."

"Sometimes Islam calls for violence to resolve problems. So when someone declares war on you and says, 'I'm coming to kill you. You have to arm yourself. You have to train. You have to be confident and not death.' And you have to fight that person. Otherwise, you are going to hell for disobeying God. In Islam, this is clear in the doctrine. That's why we fight in Palestine. That's why you call us Hamas. They call us Hamas because we dare leave our houses and fight for our country. But then when you say America need Americans need to take their country back with whatever means necessary, we must be violent. Okay."

"Tell about the Senate floor of this."

"So sometimes violence is the solution to problems, but continued violence is not what Islam calls for. Islam literally means peace."

"Violence is the solution. Islam means submission. Islam. Islam means submission."

"What What do What do I say when I greet a Muslim person? What's the first thing I say? Peace be upon you. Salamlaykum. That's what we say to each other. Because"

"Violence is definitely the answer. When an Arab conquest shoots out of Arabia, murdering and raping Christians like not build a good society where we can wrap up for the closing statements. These are five minutes and in the senium order, we'll have Mike go first. The timer is set for you, Mike, for your closing."

"Thank you, James. Thank you, Junior, for the great debate. Um, I think we've all come to the pretty similar conclusion. I thank you for bringing the audience in again. Again, thank you audience. Hey, normally I do not appeal to the audience, but he appealed to the audience. So once again, who thinks Junior, who agrees with Junior? Who agrees with me?"

"Who agrees that Jesus is coming back?"

"I do, too. My hand is still up."

"Do I get to ask the audience?"

"Do I get a Do I get a close or something?"

"But this is the five."

"We've jumped into the closing. So we'll give you Okay, calm down. We'll get to there. All right. So once again, let me reiterate. Islam leads to horrible societies. If you are promoting and spreading Islam, you are making the world a worse place."

"Why is a horrible society? For the love of God."

"I do have to, this is a closing statement. I have to restrain it to just Mike."

"If you're promoting and spreading Islam, you're making the world a worse place. And this is a serious problem for the truth of Islam because the Quran says they are the best of people. Allah has raised up. Surah 98 says we are the worst of creatures. Well, clearly the Quran is wrong because they're not creating better societies. The Christians are creating better societies. So, this has problems for the truth claims of Islam, but only because the Quran says certain things. The Quran is false when it says they are the best of people raised up. There's no evidence of that. In fact, the evidence shows the opposite. So, not only do we see that Islam is not good for humanity, it's also false. So, hope we all learned something today. Remember, Islam promotes child marriage as we shown going to the Quran, going to the hadith, going to the taps, we saw it all. It also allows and promotes polygamy, which again is very destructive to societies. Do you know why the ancient societies that allowed for polygamy were in so many wars? It's because they they took all the young girls back to the palace for the nobles and the king and they had all these young men they had to go off and kill. Okay, Islam is taking us backwards. He wants to take you back to that kind of world. That's why we see so much violence in Islam. That's one of the reasons. There's many others. Christianity has created the modern world that we live in today. Okay? It is the reason why we're so peaceful. The reason why we have more democracy has a large part to do because of Christianity. Whereas Islam is stuck in the past. That's why we should reject it. Again, I'm not saying Junior's a bad person. I'm definitely not saying that. Okay. The problem is is that his religion does foster more evil and harm. Ultimately, there are bad Christians. There are bad Muslims. But we can look at the data and see that when we have bad Christians, there's no evidence that comes from the teachings of Christianity. Whereas, when we look at what Islam teaches and the effects of Islam, we can tie it to things like child marriage, like allowing wife beating. Not not saying they're not promoting it, it's just allowing. There's a difference there. Like polygamy, like commands for call for violence like sewer 929 to 30. Okay, these are bad things that need to be called out. So yes, he said at the at the end there that sometimes violent is the answer. Yes, violent is the answer when an Arab conquest is launched out of Arabia to pillage, sack, murder, rape, and enslave the Christians across the Roman world and the Zoroastrians in the Persian world. It was horrendous. Read Robert Hland's book, In God's Path. They they man, they just they had so many slaves. They took them back. They treated them like cattle. It's absolutely horrendous. Meanwhile, how did Christianity start? Man dying for his enemies on the cross, praying for them, saying, 'Father, forgive them. They don't know what they do.' Then an early persecuted church spread the word about the good news. They were persecuted, martyred, and yet they thrived and they spread. The formation of these religions are vastly different. Christianity is really the religion that brought peace as we were martyred, persecuted by the Romans first and then the Muslims and then the communists who were still here because this is the religion that changes the world. The data shows it. When uh uh Tom Holland talks about this in his book Dominion when um missionaries went to uh one of the islands off Morocco to try to end slavery, the Moroccan government, as Tom Holland says in his book Dominion, says we can't end slavery. That's against our religion. So Christianity was trying to fight to end slavery and the Muslims were trying hard to keep it. That's why the Muslim nations were the last to end slavery with pressure from the west as well as pressure for all sorts of things we tried to end. And we're going to keep fighting, not physically unless we have to, but this is a spiritual war. We will keep spreading the good news of the gospel because it will make the world a better place. It will save more souls and bring them to heaven. And now I turn it over to my opponent for the riveting fun debate. I appreciate him coming. He is very brave for coming. I asked several Muslims to have this debate. I got turned down over and over again. This is one of the bravest Muslims I've seen. Give him a round of applause. Thank you for coming out. Thank you. Oh,"

"Kick it over for your fiveminute closing as well. Junior,"

"This is not good. I I really hope you guys didn't clap for me there because my next point is not something that you're going to clap for. Prostitution is not forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 23:17-18, none of the daughters of Israel shall be a prostitute, but you may bring the earnings of a prostitute to the house of the Lord. Society in America is collapsing because people like Michael think polygamy, having multiple wives, if you're a rich guy, you can provide for multiple women. No, no, don't do that. It's bad. Even though the Bible never condemned polygamy. So, Michael heretically says polygamy is worse than prostitution. He thinks polygamy is bad, but prostitution is good because he never brought it up. Prostitution in America is OnlyFans. OnlyFans is owned by a chosen person by God. And America is suffering from this crisis. But Michael wants to talk about polygamy instead. Michael thinks he is better for humanity than someone like me. I have a few me a few more years, you know, on on you. I don't know how old you are. I'm 27 years old. You look like you're 45, but I I hope you're younger than that. I'm not I'm not trying to I'm not trying to say anything. I I'm pretty sure you didn't sleep just like me. So maybe that's why you look like that. But Joshua Joshua 2:1, Rahab in the Bible is directly called a prostitute. Christianity has a big problem. Okay? It allows too much. It doesn't punish enough and it's not strict. That's why you have rainbow flags in the church. That's why you have queer pastors. Queer imam gone the next day. Send him back to his maker. We don't I'm not afraid to say that. You think that's against the law to send someone back to their maker? The US Department of Justice just used that word on a pedophile. And I'm I'm glad to see America's changing and adopting Sharia law. I'm glad to see Sharia law being implemented. I'm glad to see Christians on X saying ban porn. That's Sharia law. Sharia law means divine law. The word Sharia might be scary because I know Americans, you know, they're not the friendliest with Arabs because of 9/11, because of, you know, everything that's happened. And I could use the same excuse, you know, when it comes to Palestine, like you guys genocided my country, but I don't I don't see like hostility towards all of you. Like none of you have killed my family members. Michael didn't kill my family member. Michael's a great person, right? But he he hasn't killed anyone. So, I'm not I'm not going to tell him that he's a bad person for, you know, donating to Israel or like supporting Israel or having a Hebrew facade tattoo on his forearm. The whole point that I'm trying to make is we all have problems. We're all imperfect. Muslims are not perfect, but Islam is. I wasn't able to prove that Islam is perfect today and that's not the point of the debate. What I wanted to prove is that I live according to Islam. Someone like me can add value in humanity. Conversations like this are good for humanity. James, thank you so much for hosting this debate. This was honestly such a fun debate. I hope Michael if you would like to invite me for another debate in the future, maybe in December, I think we can revisit different topics. At the end of the day, I live in a Christian country as a Muslim. I'm proud to say that and I hope to die in this country. If I don't, and so be it. You know, if I go to Palestine one day on a visit and I die there, I wouldn't mind. But I would like to die in America. I was born in America. I was born in Michigan in Greater Lakes. I will always call myself American. My mother's family is Christian. I will always, always have respect for Christianity. The Quran has a literal verse that says those who are closest to you in faith are the Christians. Like I said, in Islam, salvation is non-exclusive to Muslims. In Christianity, it is exclusive to Christians. Based on that one fact alone, I believe that Islam is better for humanity, better for the human soul. Less fear, less anxiety, less worry, right? Because if you are worried, God tells you to read the Quran. It does not come to control you. Nobody can control you. Behind closed doors, you can do whatever you want. We all know that. This is what America preaches. Freedom. That's the last thing we want to get rid of is our freedom. That's not what Islam is coming to take away from you. I hope I made that clear. Thank you very much for that closing as well. Folks, we're going to move quickly into the Q&A. If you happen to have questions, just come down this middle aisle of right along this tape line. This is going to be a really short Q&A. However, if you do have questions that you'd like to ask during the next debate, which Junior will be a part of with Apostate Prophet in the other room, that's another time you could ask your questions if you had some left over from this debate as we're only going to get through to be honest. Probably it's only going to be about two or three. I'm really sorry about that, guys, that uh we' probably only take the first three guys. Sorry to do that. If you, like I said, if you want, you can ask in the next debate in the next room. Okay."

"Come on up, Jared Walters."

"Uh, my first question is for Junior."

"Okay. Sorry. Sorry."

"Uh, you say you Oh, okay. Yeah, that's fine. You say that you follow Christ the best. Um, did Christ die on the cross?"

"No."

"Okay, then you don't follow him the best because we believe that he died and rose again, thus making him God. And he"

"Are there any eyewitnesses of that event?"

"Like 500."

"But only one man made that claim."

"Who?"

"Who? You don't even know who made that claim. We we have Paul, we have Matthew, Mark, Luke."

"Who made the claim? Yeah. Who made the claim that there are 500 witnesses?"

"Paul. So, okay."

"Yes."

"What? How did he make that claim? Based on what? A dream."

"And Peter confirms Paul"

"Who was there at the crucifixion and"

"Paul had a dream of 500 people witnessing Jesus Christ."

"And does Peter Peter, one of one of Jesus's apostle, does he confirm Paul? My listen to my question. Paul,"

"Just because we do have a lot of questions to get through. I do have No problem. No problem."

"Hey, my uh I just want to state something real quick here. I definitely think that Mike is a MSAD agent because he definitely paid this guy to debate him."

"Um my question my question though is my question though is for Junior though. So you complained about how Mike had basically condemned uh how the NIV portrays the Bible and you said that that was a bad thing that he did. But when we look at surah 4:34 and pretty much every English translation that exists, it does render that verse as being beaten or strike, which you deny. So is that case would all the English translations of the Quran then be condemned under your worldview?"

"Well, here's the thing. The Quran is literally based on revelation from God. So if God says to hit women, that's what you'll do, right? If the Bible says you hit women,"

"So it is okay to strike women."

"If the Bible says you have to marry a woman that you rape, you have to do it, right? So in the Quran, if it says to hit a woman and someone interprets it as that way, they're going to do it. But guess what happens in Muslim countries to men who hit women? They get arrested and put behind bars for life. That doesn't happen in America. I concede."

"So Junior, you earlier in the debate, you told Christians to read the Torah and read the Gospels to prove that Islam is true. But in the Gospels, it clearly says that Jesus is God. Why are you telling Christians to read passages which explicitly state that Jesus is God?"

"Okay, in the Bible it does say Jesus is God, but Jesus never said he's God himself. Jesus said, 'My father is greater than I.' In John, okay, Jesus said, 'My God and your God, my father and your father.' So, the fact that God is exclusively Jesus's father is not a biblical thing."

"Thank you for your question. Um, Junior, one quick correction. sort of class is 112 not 114 but I know that's on the stage. My question is in one sentence what do why do you feel uh Islam or Christianity is the best for society?"

"Because I know as a young American individual I can implement the best policies in this country that will earn everyone's freedom and earn everyone's best standard of living and that's all I care about. I do not care what you believe in. I do not care who you are, what your name is, what your gender is, what you identify as. All I want for you is to make it to heaven and earn God's salvation. Michael can't say that. I can say that to every single human being in the world."

"Because I don't want to see flesh burn. I've seen my own family's flesh burn."

"Thank you."

"I agree. I want everyone to be saved."

"We are actually going to wrap up with that. I want to say, please join me in giving our speakers a round of applause. We appreciate these guys. Thank you guys."