Transcription
For people that have no idea what we're talking about, have not been to Kosa, have not seen the film, who are you and what are we talking about in the first place?
Well, let's why don't we just say, "Hey, pause the button." Yeah, push the pause button, go to Amazon, watch the cholesterol code, and then come back and push the unpause button because there's a there's a lot there. Um, it's it's a great it's a great film, but you but come back. You got to come back and listen to the rest of the the episode.
But um who am I? I'm a lady with a story. That's what I keep telling people. I'm just a lady with a story. Uh you can see around me. I sit in this dark corner. And uh I love stories and I love storytelling. And um I went on this wild journey that I didn't even know I was going to go on. And that is I turned 40.
And that can be the starting place, but there's a lot of backstory that gets there. But when I turned 40, uh, I went to my doctor and I was just like, I want to, um, get checked out because I feel like this is a turning point age. And so the doctor does those normal blood work stuff. And he says, "Your cholesterol is high." So that's where that story starts. Your cholesterol is is high and I'd like to put you on a statin.
Well, the backstory is that I had mental health issues for decades before that and I was on antiscychotics and anti-depressants and I just didn't want to add another medication. It was hard enough to manage that. Uh so I didn't want to add another medication. And my husband listened to podcast cuz he traveled a lot. He started hearing this chatter, this like little backstory that statins aren't really all what they're cracked up to be. probably something Dr. David Diamond said back in the day. And so I I had like this little inkling that that wasn't what I wanted to do. And I knew about eating a low carb diet. And so I just asked my doctor randomly, can I can I try to change this with diet? Like can I have like six months to give it a go? And he was like, sure. So that's what I did. I gave it six months. I just cut out sugars and grains. nothing fancy, no tracking, nothing like that. I just cut out all the sugars, cut out all the grains that included fruits. Um, and uh, you know what, but it's basically just like eating a whole whole foods.
And, uh, 6 months later, I go back and the numbers were all going in a great direction. I had lost like 30 lbs. And my doctor's like, "Whatever it is you're doing, keep doing." So, I did.
Well, it turns out that that was kind of a traumatic year for us. My husband was laid off from work and we lived in South Carolina at the time. My husband was laid off at at work and could not could not find a job. So, he's originally from Texas. And I looked at him and I said, "Maybe we should move back to Texas. I know you've always wanted to go back." And so he looked for a job, got a job, got in the car, drove away, just drove to Texas, went and started his new job. The kids were still finishing uh their this last year of school and you know, we didn't want to rip them out with a month left. My son was a scout, so he had all these summer camp plans and I didn't want to rip him [clears throat] away from that. So I have the children, a house on the market, uh you know, all the stuff going on. My husband's got a new job at a new place and everything's going well. We moved to Texas. I'm walking the dog because we lived in an apartment. We're going to great places. I'm watching the sunrise. I'm watching the sunset. And all the while, I listen to podcasts. And I hear Dr. Georgia Eid on a podcast saying, you know, low carb diet, ketogenic diet can help your mental health. And I'm like, wait a minute. Let me go back and think about this. Just a move of just getting laid off alone. I should I in the past would have been like curled up in a ball like not functional because our world was torn apart. My husband leaving for months should have just knocked me out and I would have been laying in bed and not functional. managing the house, managing the kids by myself. That was unthinkable to the person I used to be. Moving, being excited about a new phase in life, a new stage, some a new surroundings, not knowing a soul in that location, but being excited to explore it. That's not me. I'm like this person that's real stuck in a rut. That's not right. And I realized that perhaps I was feeling better. perhaps I was doing better. And that's what led me to where this this story gets bigger because I started this this way of eating simply thinking I might lose some pounds and I could stay off a statin, but it became so much more. And now um you know, I'm on this mission to share this story of hope. I was able to titrate off of all of my medications. I was a year low carb, on the same medications, 50 pounds lighter, no adjustments to the meds, just the same things. The these meds made me they just made me sleep all the time. Like, and so imagine how much worse that is when you're you weigh less. Like it really just like grabs hold. And I was able to see these clairvoyant moments and and realize that I had something going on that was that was good, which made me willing to try to to to get off the meds. And it was a trial. I I mean, flat out, I I thought that I would not I would not like I knew when I got my diagnosis some 10 years before that I would be on meds forever. That was the solution. So, I figured I could try to take him get off, but the likelihood is I'll have to go back on cuz that's how my life had always been and I've never been back on. It's never happened again. It's It's just been amazing.
Painting a timeline when when what year was it that you started to adopt a low carb diet? Like what what time was that?
2017. So, I am my birthday is in two months. So, well, a month. So, I'm almost nine years into this ketogenic journey at this point.
Nice.
Yeah.
And prior to that, what were, you know, you said you were on medications for mental health. What What did that chapter in your life look like? Cuz I feel like honestly the the the weight loss, the improved insulin sensitivity, all of that is what typically gets the limelight around a ketogenic diet. But honestly, the mental [clears throat] benefits that excites me more than anything really cuz I used to struggle with in debilitating OCD and keto diet helped me with that and that's like a pretty common story I hear. So when it comes to you, what was that chapter like?
So we will but yeah, let's go backwards in the book. I never know where to start the story. So, I like I mix it. Sometimes it's sometimes it's chronological, sometimes it's a little back and forth, but so yeah, let's go backwards in time. My son was born in 2005 and um I had my first official diagnosis of postpartum depression. And uh that was the first official diagnosis. I will say that I suffered with depression in high school all through college and then I I graduated college in 99. So 6 years later I finally get a diagnosis uh of uh postpartum depression and that was here's your diagnosis, here's your pills and I was on an anti-depressant from that point forward.
Go ahead. What do you think like when you talk about you felt depressed prior to that you know postpartum depression the stage and diagnosis what do you think the contributing factor towards your depression you know earlier on was from like what was the catalyst there
it's not really I don't know I'm not that person that like wants to point fingers at event I at a specific event I don't know that my childhood was any different than any other person's 's childhood. I I did grow up in a a child of divorce. So, you know, was a single parent home. I lived with my mom and my sister for most of my life. But I can't like I can't pick anything like in particular about like childhood thing that turned it on. I know that uh when I was a freshman in high school, this is painful. When I was a freshman in high school, my friends just all like decided they didn't want to talk to me anymore. And that went on for like two years. U until one one of them we like like literally the we're is in between classes and we're walking in the halls and she's walking towards me and I was walking towards her and I was averting my eyes because it was like like like she could get ostracized by the friend group if she made any contact with me. So I was saving her by not looking at her. like that's how bad this situation was. I don't think that was the catalyst. I just think that I never I never grew up. I never I never matured in a like the in the in a way and I I got kind of stunted. So just my decision- making was always off. I my um the way I perceived myself in the world was just not right. like I thought I just got handed a bad I got a bad hand dealt to me and I was just going to have to deal with that. It was always going to be a fight, always going to be a struggle to have any worth, any value to even be at the same level as somebody else. Like I just never had a good selfworth. So I can think of specific events, but nothing like like pushed me pushed me over the edge. It was just like a slow burn until I in high school is when I started having like suicidal ideiations and really would start picturing well I could do this. I could do that and then I just wouldn't be here anymore and I wouldn't have to feel this way anymore.
It's it's a tough topic to to dive into, but I feel like I mean when you look at the stats, I mean there's just this growing prevalence of depression, especially in the youth. And you know, I like look back on my childhood and I had a pretty solid childhood as well. You know, I had my folks were great parents. I got no complaints there. Um, but it's like I had really bad OCD. My brother battled with depression. He was diagnosed with depression. He was on some SSRIs. He had gone to like a clinic for it. Um, and you know, I've got cousins that have dealt with depression and are on medications. And it's like when you do that, the standard of care back then, at least, I don't know what it is now, but like it was it was then it was just, okay, you're young, you're going through puberty, there's a lot of chemical imbalances in your brain, take this medication, and you're a good boy, pat you on the head. And it's like is it is it chemical imbalances in the brain due to hormonal fluctuations at this stage in our development? Is it environmental toxins? Is it upbringing? Is it what the foods that we're eating? Like what is the root cause? I don't know. I don't know if anybody knows. I don't know if it's any one thing, but it seems to only be getting more and more pronounced. And I don't think the trend's moving in the right direction.
No, I agree. And I think that it's it's I mean I live in a we both do we live in this ketogenic world so it's easy to be like it's the food the food is everything but I really do feel that in this sense I I look at things and so my great-grandparents were all immigrants to this country. So my grandparents kind of knew the old ways. So my parents were still brought up in that. My you know I still had home-cooked meals but um you know we were a couple generations in of course at this point and the the food system had changed. So that stuff started like the boxes and the quick foods and all that stuff started seeping in in my childhood in my during my time. And I and I guess I'm fortunate because of that it's not as big of a generational gap. We did still cook at home. I do still, you know, we did still make things from scratch. And um you know, when I was when I was a baby, I was breastfed. Like I feel like I was fortunate in that because there's other people certainly within my age group that had that distance still within the, you know, their their immigrant generations, I guess. And then uh so they were already on packaged foods or on you know formulas as a child as a baby. Well, then people in my age group, if they started off formulafed, and then they ate the standard American diet, which came out when, you know, we were infants when that was brought out, and they followed that their whole life, then they have children, and their children are are are doing the same pattern, we're I I assume that this has got to be doing some sort of damage at a cellular level and certainly affecting our brain. brains and I feel like you could look out into society and just be like stuff's not right. Like nobody has any self-confidence. Everybody puts on a mask, you know, like if we could just go back a couple generations and be like you used to cook at home. You didn't have formula as a baby. You came out of the womb. like all of these things that um I think overall over you know end over end over end really are making it a kind of a detrimental change and it's high time we wake up and and look at it and say we've got to put the brakes on this and fast and start bringing in some of these you know whole food type things like we got to get it out it's got to go.
Yeah, I agree on all fronts. I think that from a physiological standpoint, the development or lack of de development in the brain during those pivotal years because of the malnourishment is a massive contributing factor. Another thing that has shifted since that same time frame pretty much like you know the '9s early 2000s I guess 2010 really is you know like when I was growing up uh and I'm 34 you know when I was growing up there was no cell phones there was no social media there was no video games like I would go out and I would play and every sensory feedback that I was exposed to was just real time analog you know tangible whereas Now, you know, not only are children and, you know, youth getting inundated with lack of nourishment, but they're also being t taxed with all this anxietyinducing, irrelevant information that they can't really control. They're being compared to like there's just so many noise variables that are now part of the equation that were never part of the equation, you know, earlier 20 years ago. And I feel like that in tandem with the lack of nourishment is like it's just a perfect storm basically.
I again I agree with you. So foundationally we have this diet structure that has kind of messed up some cellular level stuff and then on top of that we now get this like instant gratification but it's also like instant terrible things too. So, my you're probably not there yet with the the ages of your children. Um, but mine are I have a 21-year-old and an 18year-old and they're going through like middle and high school. If one thing happens and like I said, my friends stopped talking to me. They stopped talking to me. Like that's it was awful. It was obviously it affected me because I still talk about it and I'm 48 years old. But they would get, you know, if something happens to somebody, you get like blasted all over the the internet. Like it's a thing or you can, you know, of course you can look at people's profiles and stalk them and know stuff about them that you wouldn't normally know. And this is happening in real time in an instant. It's too overwhelming to manage. As a parent, it's hard because we grew up in a different generation. We didn't have that. And it's like really what it's so confusing to try to combat um you know well you know step back step back from that really look at it from a different perspective because they are just so in it all the time and they can't break away from it. It's it's not it's not a good thing. Um, like for my daughter, I I won't talk more about it really, but cuz it's her story and her life, but she was taken down a pretty scary path when she was in middle school and all I could do was like hold on to her. I had to put on some boundaries that none of the other parents were putting on and just say, "You just got to wait this out. I'm sorry that this is awful. Uh, middle school's a horrible time for anyone, no matter what generation you are and you went through it. And middle school's just not an easy time." and hold on, I'll be here for you. And thankfully, she came out the other side better. But not everybody that had the same thing happen to them did. And they're still struggling right now, years, six years later. And it's just, it's awful to witness. It's awful to see how much, you know, you feel like because you're getting this feedback, you know, you feel like you've done something. You feel like you've accomplished something, but actually all you've done is sit. you haven't moved. And uh it's I mean I say that right now about I sit in this corner and work and I'll get up and be like I'm exhausted. All I did was sit and stare at a screen all day, but I felt like I did a lot. I'm like I haven't even like walked 10 steps today. I just sat in front of the computer. But that's how they've grown up. Everything's been in front of the screen. Your senses of accomplishment are just failed. Like there is no there is no motivation to do something that is physical. There's no motivation to compete other than just like clicking a button. There's no motivation to have an inter in-person interaction with someone. That's that's dying off. And it's kind of scary what what what that looks like and what could happen.
Yeah. The relational component is a tricky one because I mean like when you look at I mean this is just like stuff that we've known since the dawn of humanity like storytelling like you began this podcast like telling stories like that's something that we have passed down from generation to generation and it's always been done in the context of >> you know originally like around a campfire like people talking around a campfire just sharing moments then you know through written word which was great and now it's all instantaneous through social media but like because of the screens People don't know how to look one another in the eye.
Pick up on facial recognition cues. Pick up on, you know, just how to respond to people in moments of, you know, excitement, grief, happiness, exhilaration. Like, there's all these intangibles that we as a species are losing touch with. And I don't think that's going to do us well when it's all said and done. But, I mean, who knows? Time will be the time will tell.
And well, we're losing touch with it quickly. like that me talking about generate generationally losing that connection to the kind of like the homemade foods or you know our traditional foods.
You know it took four generations to get to that point.
It's not that now. It is immediate now. Our kids are extremely different. Their surroundings are extremely different than than ours. Like it's way different. The the gap is huge. And um I I I do notice this. I notice it about myself like that uh place of just I don't want to say laziness, but that lack of motivation or it it's just very like the reset point of just being still and not having any motivation to do anything happens very easily, too easily. And that's with somebody that does have an idea of of what should be happening and what that per what I should be doing, but it's very easy to just get into this complacency state.
They're growing up complacent. So when they get complacent, what else do they have left
and that's I think where we start seeing these much deeper issues happening.
I agree. I agree. So for you as you were going through this, how did that manifest? You were depressed. You were officially diagnosed postpartum depression. What What did that look like going forward? Like what was the what how did you climb out of that hole?
The story of climbing out of postpartum depression is I didn't do it in any sort of right way. I uh after I was I was just on I was just on an anti depressant and I don't remember which one. There's all these people that are like I was on this dosage of this and this dosage of this. I don't know. I was just on the thing. Whatever they gave me, I took it. I was I was pretty diligent about whatever my medications were. Um I had gotten I was pregnant again with my daughter and I went to the doctor and I was like, I probably shouldn't be on this anti-depressant while I'm pregnant, right? Like we don't know what that's doing to the baby. And they were like, oh yeah, that's probably right. Just stop taking it. So I did and I went back to the doctor. I don't know how much longer but how much later but I went back and I was like I am not winning this battle. I need to be put back on it. So I was on the medication while I finished that pregnancy and had my daughter and um we ended up moving again now to South Carolina. We were not there when she was born. Um and I just didn't take the medicine with me. Like the next time I went to the doctor I just didn't tell them I was on it and I just stopped. And I stopped for years. I did not take meds of any sort for years. It doesn't mean that I was healed or better. I just wasn't taking any medicine. And so kind of like numbing that um feeling. Everything was was bright and shiny. It actually very dull and gray, but uh you know, it was amplified how I was feeling. So, I have two little children, and the expectation in my mind was, I'm going to sit on the floor. I'm going to play with them. I'm I'm a stay-at-home mom. I was fortunate enough to be a stay-at-home mom. I'm going to prepare our nice meals. We're going to play. We're going to do all these things. But the actuality was um I have there's more there's more RO there's more R that was not diagnosed at the time. So, um, I wanted order. I I wanted to order is probably the best way to say everything like,
as you know, anyone who has a child knows that you cannot predict what their next move is going to be. So, I want to have structure and order and things to be in their place and things to happen at a certain time. And a kid's going to throw a wrench in that every single time. It doesn't matter how well planned out it is, they're going to do that. Well, for me that was like an over an over the edge moment. I would be very angry. So instead of sitting on the floor playing with my children, I would be screaming at my kids. Uh my kids I know were just simply afraid of me. I I tried so hard to not show that. I don't know how much Matt, my husband, knew at the time when they were even, you know, younger, but um you know, I tr So I'm trying to be like two people really. Like there's this person that's angry and out of control and there's this other person that wants to appear correct in front of other people. And that is exhausting. It's simply exhausting. And so I was exhausted. I was angry. I was I had the capacity to know that what I was doing was out of my control, but I had no no way of figuring out how to how to fix it, how to make it better. So, I knew it wasn't going well, but I didn't know what to do. So, I just it was a very chaotic time. Um, and
did you find yourself like like when in the moment you would be yelling at them and getting frustrated and have a short fuse, did [clears throat] you feel like would you judge yourself after having an outburst? Like were you blowing up and saying, "Okay, this is wrong of me like I should be better than this and you just didn't have the capacity to act better than that or how did that unfold?"
Yeah, that would happen all of the time. So I'm very judg was very judgmental towards myself like what the what are you what are you doing? This is they're their children you're you know you're supposed to be their the parent the guide their guide you know your teacher through life and instead all they know is they've done something wrong. They might have no idea what it was they did wrong and I was going to react to it. Not a sensible response. It was always a reaction. They don't know to any different. This is how they're growing up. They to them this is just how life is. It's not a it's not a good life, but that's just how life is. I was unable to provide a happiness to their daily life. And yeah, I was really hard on myself for that. And again, I go back to I I don't I didn't know how to repair it. I just always felt like I was scrambling. I was lost. I I had I just had no idea what to do. And I was alone a lot. My husband travels for work. So, he would just like walk in the door and I'd be like, "Tag, you're it." And I would just disappear. Uh cuz all that's all I wanted to do was like the only thing I can do is get away. That's that's it. So I would like hop in the car and just drive off. Uh not with the kids like when he came back like I did have enough to understand that I was responsible for these children and I can't just leave them. But I didn't have enough to to manage all of that anger, all of that frustration. I and and tried to keep an appearance publicly that everything was okay.
Mhm. And then this was kind of happening as you were improving your health to avoid the the statin medication and then it just became apparent that in removing all the carbohydrates you were also much more mentally emotionally capable
right so I my son was probably in the second grade when I finally I had started reading books actually I started reading like biographies and uh autobiograph graphies of people who had bipolar disorder and I was like all of this stuff kind of fits. So I went to the doctor um and kind of told him like I think I have bipolar disorder. So then I start this whole this whole regimen. So uh I I my timeline gets a little messy because I had I was so sedated during that time. I have a real hard time like pulling out the memories. So,
this would be before you were
It's before I'm 40. I'm I'm I'm probably in my in my late 30s, early mid to late 30s when I finally start realizing that I have a bigger problem here. Uh so, I I do start getting psychiatric care and that's when I get a diagnosis of bipolar disorder. Um, and I they didn't really do like the number thing. So, but it leaned heavily on the depression. So, I never had like a notable mania like like a manic event, like a psychosis event. But I would kind of I would stay very depressed for a long time and then just like there'd be these times where I would wake up with so much energy I'd have to go clean the house like or I would just be I have to go shopping and want to just spend all the money. But I would have then that was hard too. That was a fight because I would just want to go out and go shopping because shopping might make me feel better. But then also realized we were a single family income and I didn't have that kind of money sitting around to go do that. Um and I was also diagnosed as OC. Uh that was where that order the order comes in. I wanted all that order.
OC what is that?
Obsessive compulsive. So yeah. So um So I got those diagnosis. I was actually happy to receive the diagnosis because I knew there was a treatment and I knew the treatments were you know psychotherapy and um medication. So I started I started down that path and that was anti-depressants, antiscychotics uh and you know go see the doctor once a month and check in have a talk check in
in real quick when when it comes to like the diagnosis like
I mean how is that even conducted like are they cuz like if you were depressed you were diagnosed officially with postpartum depression after the birth of your And but then you go in and then you get a formal diagnosis for obsessivecompulsive disorder and bipolar. Like how do they differentiate? How do they determine how do they prognose this?
This is a great question and um there's there's no huge an like there's no like cut and dry answer to this. You fit in a couple you do like a questionnaire and a conversation and an assessment. It's not like you can do a blood work test to determine this. It's it's a you know it's an evaluation based and basically you fit you fit more of these boxes than you do in those boxes.
Uh it's not it's not much more much more clear than that. And uh so that's those were the boxes that that I that I fit in that explained clearly enough what I was describing. And with the medications on that, again, there's not any blood work on it, per se. So, like they're prescribing medications that match what they think has a favorable response to other people that also align with those boxes.
Yes. And a lot of that is off-brand, like off off of its normal use. So, you go I was on like anti-seizure medicine. That's pretty that's pretty standard. Um, uh, so they're they're not necessarily I said offbrand, I meant off label. So a lot of them are off label uses and, uh, and it's a lot of trial and error. And I think that that's a lot of that's what people don't really talk about a lot, but it's a lot of trial and error. So psychiatrists are um, prescribing and deprescribing all the time based on the communication they're having with the patient. So something might not be working the way they thought it would work. So they're going to take you off of this thing and they're going to put you on another thing. So you're constantly, this is this is literally part of my story that you're constantly going on something new and off of something else to find the right thing to find the right balance. And um I don't think in the time that I saw a psychiatrist that I was and ever on anything for more than like 3 months at a time before something was switching in within the medications that I was on. At least one of those medications was either going up or going down or getting removed and no one had it. There was always something happening. And I lived where I lived. Um, it's kind of like a psychiatric desert. I had the first doctor was like 45 minutes away and that one closed. The next one was like an hour away. That one closed. The next one's like an hour and a half away. That one closed. It was getting harder and harder to to to get care. And every time I went into a new office, it I for real, it would get to the point, you know, the the pharmaceutical company would have a little placard just sitting on a table in the waiting room and I'd be like, I'm going on that medicine. And sure enough, as soon as I, you know, I have the appointment and I'd come out with a new prescription that was for whatever that was that was sitting on the table. So I'd be going off of something and on to something. So in this time, this length of time that I was under psychiatric care, I never had a consistency in medication. But I never really lost hope. I just kind of thought, well, this is how it is. It's they just have to find the right thing. I just have to go back and keep communicating and eventually we're going to find the right thing and all is going to be good in the world. But because of this inability to find care close enough to home, I just went back to my general practitioner and he just kept prescribing the last things that I was on. So he could just just kept reuping that prescription. And again, I don't know the timeline. I don't know how long that went on, but that's what I was on when I did eventually go back to the doctor for my 40th birthday and, you know, attempt to not have to take the statin.
And I would imagine like this has to be just incredibly taxing for your kids and your husband cuz like if you if you break an arm and you're not able to help out around the house as much, it's like okay, you put a cast on, you're going to be pretty much lowkey for the next few months and you're as good as new or whatever the timeline on the cast broken arm is. But like with psychiatric medications, it's like you're trying things out, you're good, you're down, you're up, you're low. It's like your family doesn't know what's going to happen, what version of you they're going to get
all the time. Well, they didn't know what version of me they were going to get before and they still didn't know which version they were going to get after uh medication. And uh so that that's basically the story of [laughter] of like I don't know 10 years of of life. And uh it I think I think Matt was probably had the same feeling like obviously pharmaceuticals are the answer. That's what we're that's the bill of sale we have, right? Like that's what they're telling us is that pharmaceuticals are going to be the answer. Just keep going back and keep doing it. Keep going back and keep doing it. So it wasn't um only pharmaceuticals. It was like therapy. Uh but none of that in fact my therapy sessions would make me so angry that they ended like I just was like I can't go to this anymore because I'm so angry afterwards. So it was at at one point just I'm going to 100% manage with this medication. This medication that is just basically the last thing they tried. It's not necessarily tailored to my needs. It was just the last thing they tried before that one closed down and I got tired of I mean it was taxing and that too like um I think the last pill that I was on the last anti- psychotic I was on was over $1,000 a month. I wasn't working. Um there's also there's also this thing where uh we didn't know anybody. We didn't know a lot of people where we lived or not enough that would like be able to help out. Like if I had a doctor's appointment, my husband would have to take off of work just to be home to be with the kids so that I could go to the doctor's appointment, but I would want him to go with me. And so like it was like nothing like it was just logistically not easy. Uh and and so I always felt like a burden. I couldn't hold down work. I didn't have a job. Wasn't that I didn't want to help provide for the family. I couldn't provide for the family. And then on top of that, I'm spending thousands of dollars on medication and that's taking away from the family. So, I'm getting treatment. I'm getting I'm getting better, right, with these medications. But I felt awful because I always felt like I was a burden to the family. Even if I could maybe interact a little bit more, which I didn't. I was so sedated. I still was like I'd wake up in the morning, take the kids to school, go back to sleep, wake have an alarm to wake up to get them off the bus. Like it I was not very functional. Uh and this burden like it just never felt better. Nothing felt better.
Yeah. I just kept taking the pills.
Was there any medication over that time that like had a favorable impact whatsoever? Or was it more so like you would try a new medication, the excitement of this may being the solution that led to, you know, a temporary positive high just cuz you were filled with hope for a moment. Was there any definitive like, okay, this medication all else equal with 100 with 100% certainty helped in anything?
I never had a sense of wellness during that time. Something was always not right. So the medications are not the answer as far as this was concerned.
No. No. And I but it didn't occur to me to try anything else because that's all I knew. That's what I thought was going to be the answer.
Again, I said I was like super excited. I have a diagnosis and I now I know I can have a treatment.
Like without the diagnosis, no treatment. With the diagnosis, treatment, everything's going to get better. So let me just go on this wild ride of finding the right medication. And eventually we're going to get there.
No, no questions asked.
It was when you uh changed your diet to, you know, avoid the need for the statins, lost the weights, that's when you kind of connected the dots. At what point were you like confident that the food was the reason you need no longer needed the medication and felt good about not taking it anymore?
Uh it was that I was a year in and had I not heard Dr. Eid on a podcast talking about what she does, I don't know how long it would have taken for me to realize it. It was her
podcast like gave you permission so to speak.
Yeah. Gave me well uh I was able to just I heard that and I was able to reassess and then Dr. Barry had put out in one of his videos, it was like the top top 10 medications that were always meant to be um shortterm and I was on I was on it on one of them and I was like this was meant to be short term. I've been on this for four years like this this can't this isn't good news to find out. Uh so so that that that was also like a moment for me to just step back and assess and be like all right
I think I need to try this. So like you talking uh earlier about you know once you hear this even despite being [laughter] despite being um an introvert it still means a lot to say it out loud and help people with it. Well, it's it was that actually just for myself like I've heard this. I can't unhear it. I got I felt compelled to try with the full knowledge that I might have to go back and I might never find the right thing, but I have to try. I I won't know if I don't do it.
And I did it. I never went back.
And I mean, the cost of beef is pretty expensive right now for sure, but it's a lot tastier. And for a thousand bucks a month to remove the medication, I'd say it's well worth well worth the trade. Yes, well worth the trade. Also, I'm able to hold down work now. So, uh I can do more to provide for the family and I'm not take also taking away from the family. And I am fortunate enough to live in Texas. So, I we we get a half a cow every six months and it is cheaper than going to the grocery store and buying beef. So, that's also a bonus. But yeah, I mean, think about how much that opens up opportunity when you have a thousand extra dollars a month sitting in the bank account.
Mhm.
Well, it's kind of I mean, like in watching the documentary again, people definitely need to see the film, but like just the the the way you look is totally different. I mean, you're weight training now, so like you got all that benefit as well, but like the just the the glimmer in your eyes now from the the footage of what you look like when you were at your lowest. And I don't I mean that film probably didn't even capture you probably weren't even taking video clipets of you when you were at your lowest because you didn't want anybody to see, you know, but it's like you now with the the brightness and the zeal for life that you have. It's like yeah, what price do you put on that, you know?
Yeah. Well, thank you for noticing that because that's how I feel like I do something to seek joy every single day because I have been given a gift. You know, it's a rebirth, right? It's I've been given this gift of this new life and I try to appreciate it every single day. You've made me tear up. Not unusual. Every single podcast that I I'm on, I cry so it's okay. Uh I'm used to it. Uh but it that's that is. And to go from a place of despair for years and years and years, both diagnosed and undiagnosed, to this place where I can function and enjoy and say yes to things that I wouldn't have normally said yes to and hop on an airplane and travel by myself and I was so anxiety ridden that was completely out of the question. And um I do take the time like in the moment to be like, "Wow, I did this thing." Like pat on the back. Good girl. You did it. And um I do have the strong sense that like doing these harder things, doing getting on stage, having these conversations. I was not nervous. I was just like, "This is the next step. I need to do this. And if I look at it as scary, whatever, but because I did it, I'm going to grow. Like all of this stuff. So how I eat is foundational, that's not going to change. There's all of these other things that are important. And stepping out and doing the hard things, that is huge. That is a huge part of the healing process. Doing something like strength training is a huge therapeutic thing. Being in a community, that's therapeutic. all of these things because my before was, you know, under the covers. There was none there was none of that. So, it's just
so wildly different.
I I start to say that I'm starting to forget more than I remember because why would why do I want to go remember all of that stuff? It was horrible. Um, but the photos in the film was probably the hardest part when they were like, "Can you find photos?" was like, "No, probably not, but we'll see what we can do." I was not in front I was behind the camera. I was never in front of the camera.
And uh
they're a little embarrassing, but I'm glad they're there because they tell the story.
Yeah. It gives you the perspective. What do your what do your kids say now? Cuz I mean like they remember like they're old enough to remember what you were like then at the lowest contrasting from what you are now and like how how that's going. Like what do they say?
Well, it's a it's a different conversation with each of my children. My my son, the older one, he's he [snorts] really took the brunt of everything. I I don't know if he purposely tried to protect his sister or not, but he was the older one. So, the anger often got directed at him. Uh so, he still has to work through his side of his feelings. We get along. Uh he we do stuff together. we're going to go to a baseball game tonight. So, like there's nothing um like
We're able to be around each other and there's not that fear. Like I, at one point in my life, just thought, you know, when they turn 18, they're going to leave. That did not happen. Um, but I think that there's going to be a time where we're going to have to have that deep conversation and try to work through some things. Like, he's, I think he's still trying to cope, and at this age, he's 21 now. So, he, it's a time where he's going to have to, like, he's got to find it himself. Uh, I'll be here when he's ready. But I, I don't want to push that. That's his side, is his side. He, he owns it and he has to do that when he's ready.
My daughter and I, especially 'cause she had gone through all that stuff in middle school and she knew that I was the one that was there. She could always go [clears throat] to me. Uh, she got to really live with the change in me a lot more than he did. He was, he was in high school by the time these changes started really being apparent and he just, didn't pay attention to it at the time, I guess. But she really lived with it. And, and, and Laura, my daughter, is in the film, so she tells, she tells what it was like as a child living with me. But, uh, she's, she and I are great. Like, she's 18. She's still in the house. She just graduated high school. She's going off to college. She's extremely excited about going off to college, but she'll still, she'll still call me like out with her friends and be like, "Hey, we're changing location. I just wanted you to know where I am." Like, she just wants to check in and touch base with me and and make sure, you know, we're good. Everything's good. Uh, so I, I taught her how to cook something yesterday. She's like, "That's a family recipe. Let's you show me." And I was like, "Yeah, you have to pay attention because there's no measurements. I can't write it down. You have to actually watch, watch me make it to do it." Uh, so we did that together. So she still enjoys doing stuff together where, you know, that again, I thought at 18 she'd be gone. And, uh, she, she didn't. She wants to go, she wants to go to college, but she, she, she doesn't want to go because I drove her away, and that's really what I felt was going to happen.
Well, I'd say that's, that's a win across the board for sure.
Yeah. Yeah. What do you think, um, like mechanistically is happening in the brain that alleviates so many of those symptoms when one adopts a ketogenic diet? Is it simply a matter of the ketones crossing the blood-brain barrier and providing an alternative fuel substrate? Like, what is it actually happening? And I mean, it's a loaded question because we're still figuring this out. We don't definitively know, but just having lived it and gone through it, what, what are you thinking is the catalyst there?
It's magic. I don't really speak to the science because while I know it exists, it's not, I'm like, not a trained, I'm not trained to like read all that stuff and I've never really pushed myself to do so 'cause I just, I have like all this trust in all these scientists and researchers and doctors that are practicing and doing it. I, I just have all of this trust. What I know is that it doesn't matter what comes out, the way I eat and the therapies that I use to keep myself happy is not going to change. So, uh, if I, whatever that mechanism is, if it be it ketones or breathwork, like it could be, or the combination of all of these things, whatever it is, it's not going to change my decision. So, being an LMHR, a lean mass hyperresponder, this fear that I'm going to die of a heart attack tomorrow because of my elevated LDL cholesterol. I'm not digging into the science. I love that Dave is taking that on and the team and they're all doing that. I trust it. But if one day they come back and say, "Oh, this was awful. You guys all have to go back, get on the statin. It's over. We were, we were completely wrong." And I don't believe they are. But if that ever happened, I wouldn't change a thing. I wouldn't change a thing. I've had now nearly nine years of being a completely different person. The person in my heart I always knew I could be because I changed how I ate. I don't care about the mechanism. I'm living this every day. I do want it to be more mainstream. So, I do need the scientists to keep doing what they're doing. And I am very passionate. This is why I'm so passionate about the stories because I really feel like the top down of the research and the grassroots where we meet, this is the intersection of hope. And at that, at that intersection, we can bust through this bubble and we can spread this out mainstream. So if I can continue to say, I live this way, this is, this is how I manage all of those symptoms that I used to have and I don't have them anymore, and I can be joyful every single day, and I can push myself to do hard things, and I can talk to people who I wouldn't have normally talked to. All of that stuff because of a dietary change and it leading to other therapeutic approaches in my life because I suddenly had space open for it. The mechanism doesn't matter to me.
I assumed that would be a response, and I'm glad that it was because I have the same response. Um, and I think that is the purest, most beautiful response you could give. And it's so true. And, you know, I look, I'm in a space like with performance athletes where everybody's wanting the, the catalyst, the mechanism, the driver. They want the studies, they want the research, they want the evidence-based background. And I can totally get behind that and dig into it, reading all of the studies as well. But like, what this way of eating has done for my lifestyle, my relationship with food, my psychology, like that in and of itself is reason alone to stick with it. And that's all the evidence I need. That, that's, that's all I need. And I see that story played out in yours and so many other journeys. Like when I'm at these conferences talking to people, like these are the stories that I come back home from hearing and it's like, okay, I don't really care what the next study shows or doesn't show. Like, this is real as real gets and this is all the proof I ever need to know this is the right path forward.
Yeah, exactly. And, uh, there's so many people because I work mostly in the mental health space and it's really funny because I didn't approach mental health, my mental health care from this perspective. I found out about it a year later. Like, I was already a year into it when I found out about it. So to hear people, and I get asked that question all the time, "Well, what are your ketone levels and what are your, what is your this? What is your that?" I don't know. I never, I never checked. I have no idea. I just know that I, I cut out the sugars and the grains and I feel better. And if I keep it at that, it's going to be amazing. And if I try to go off of that, it's not, the depression comes back. So, I know what my limits are and I just don't go outside of my limits. Yet, I don't feel limited. I don't want that to be misconstrued. I don't at all feel limited. Uh, I just know that this is what's going to work for me and I want to share that with other people. And I think that's, that's this plain language talk is so important, especially if you have like, if you have OCD and they're like, "You have to hit this macros and you have to hit this ketone level." This, like, that's detrimental to your health to have to focus on all those numbers. Plain language, simple. I'm glad the science is there. Don't get me wrong. I'm really glad it's there. If somebody's into that, they can go look at it. Go to Metabolic Mind, go look at it. It's all there. But to be able to just converse with a regular everyday person and say the things without having to use the word mitochondria, without having to [laughter] use like even metabolic is hard to comprehend for a lot of people. So, you know, just keeping it, keeping it very simple. I think that's a really good approach for reaching more people and giving them the opportunity to make a change for themselves.
Totally agree on all fronts. Out of curiosity, I know you're not tracking macros or anything, but do you notice more favorable, uh, psychological experiences when you are higher fat, higher protein? Like, do you notice any variation there whatsoever?
Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, there is an experiment and it's in the film. I don't think I need to go, I won't go too far into the experiment that is in the film, but it involves a sweet potato. And, uh, I was fully, like, 100. This is the whole coffee debate. I don't, I don't really care. Like, if you eat like 90% meat-based, call yourself a carnivore, slap yourself on the back, and move on. Like, don't, don't worry [laughter] about it. But anyway, um, I was, I was, uh, eating carnivore. I was like, I'm, did a, I did a year, like, full carnivore and I felt, I felt amazing, but then my, my LDL levels shot up. And so the recommendation was to following some of the guidance and research that Dave and the team had put out there, like, add a sweet potato in. And my depression came back after eating a sweet potato every day for three months. Just nothing else changed. I added a sweet potato. So I don't really count my macros. I will, every once in a while, like a good reset, I'll, like, for a couple weeks, like, just to remember what my plate is supposed to look like, I'll, I'll count. But I don't, I don't normally track because I find it, I find it a disruptor. So if I do track,
So, um, but I do know that I can't, because of that experiment, because of what happened, because the response that I had and bringing back my depression, I know that I can't go over whatever a sweet potato amount of calories is, day over day, end over end. So, um, I,
Calories or carbohydrates?
I'm sorry. Carbo, I said calories. I meant carbohydrates. Yes, you're right. Thanks for, for catching that. Um, so, um, I, if I go out to eat and there's a sweet potato on the menu, I get a, I'll get a dry sweet potato. I don't get the butter because I don't know what the butter is. I almost always travel with butter and salt so that I don't have to risk whatever is provided at a restaurant. But if there's a sweet potato on the menu, I'll eat it. But it doesn't mean I'm eating a sweet potato the next day and the next day and the next day and the next day. Especially 'cause I don't have any in my house. So I'm not, I'm not tempted by that. So that's where I really think the problem came for me. It wasn't just like I eat one sweet potato one day. It was the, the end over end, the daily compounding factor of having that, which, um, again, I didn't track. I didn't track. Probably very likely knocked me out of ketosis and I stayed out of ketosis for that three-month period and it just started coming back in. I don't, I don't know 'cause I didn't check those things.
Gotcha. So you probably haven't done an unstructured or structured experiment in which you like intentionally consumed at a higher protein than fat intake for a significant period of time or anything to that degree, then? Right.
No. And I, and I won't. I mean, I am all for self-experimentation, but not at the detriment to my joy.
Yeah. No, I totally respect that for sure.
Yeah. So I mean, I've, I've gone like higher protein but consistent fat. Like, I've just increased the protein and even then, that's what I will notice. And that's kind of what you talk about in, like, I've been on your website a gazillion times, like, look at this formula here, reset yourself. [snorts] It's good. Like, so I've, I've used that as a tool quite frequently. But increasing the protein for a long amount of time could, can, I can start feeling it being triggering in that, in that way for my, my mental health as well. Just your body's not breaking it all down and it's turning it into, you know, gluconeogenesis and you're getting a little sugar hit even from too much protein. So, I, I do try to manage it, but again, I don't like track it. I basically eat the same thing every day. So, that kind of keeps it easy.
And, and what is, just, what does that look like out of curiosity? What does your typical day of eating look like?
Uh, I usually, um, I, I kind of have a close of a refined eating window. So, I'll eat lunch, usually is the leftovers from the night before. And if we don't have leftovers, I'll just make eggs for myself. Um, and I'm not, don't, don't everybody shoot me, okay? I'm not a huge bacon fan. I'll cook with bacon fat, but I don't like eating bacon. It's just very rare for me to eat bacon, but I love ham, so I'll put ham in my eggs. They're not green. It's not green eggs and ham. It's just regular eggs and ham. [laughter] And then, um, at night, we usually just have something that's ground beef. We might just fry up ground beef and eat a bowl of ground beef, which I would slap like, lo, like it's in a sauce, but it's butter. Like I'll just slap loads of butter in there. I don't do a lot of seasonings. Um, salt.
Uh, I don't do like onions. That I just, I, I just stay away from a lot of the seasonings. I think it's a, it's like if I had some sort of issue, the issue would be from the vegetable that I may or may not add. So, it's usually just ground beef or burgers or steak. Uh, occasionally we'll, and this isn't like often, we'll have like pork chops one day in a month or we'll have chicken. We like to smoke chicken wings, so we'll have chicken wings like every other week or something like that. It's just, um, that, that's it. It's, it's real, like I said, simple, plain language. It's simple. You don't have to, I mean, I, it's great if you do know how to cook. And when I was in this kind of keto phase, I was making all the things with the almond flour and the smashed cauliflower and all that stuff. Um, just throw some meat in a pan and cook it and eat it. It's delicious.
It, it's kind of funny 'cause I was, I was talking to somebody earlier today and they were like giving me all these recipes ideas and everybody wants to see recipes. I can totally understand and appreciate that. But it's like when I look at what I consume in a day, it is laughable [clears throat] how similar it is day over day over day. You know, ground beef, eggs, heavy cream in my coffee, butter, and a keto brick. Like, that is pretty much my day-to-day staple. The ground meat is either ground beef, ground venison, or ground pork. And that's pretty much what I eat every single day. But when you feel so good and when you perform so good and when your weight composition and health are consistently immaculate, it's like, why would I want to deviate from this? Like, this is the creme de la creme. There's no need to break it and try and get cute with it, you know?
Oh, I, yeah, 100% agree. It opens up my day for so many other things. I don't have to be thinking about
Actually mad.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, exactly. I don't have to be thinking about food all the time. If I'm hungry, I can just quickly scramble up an egg and eat it and we're good. Like, I can move on and go do something else. And, uh, it is amazing how like freeing, like everybody talks about keto and carnivore is just so limiting, but it's quite the opposite. It's very freeing once you don't have to be
Thinking about food all the time. You, the world is just opened up to you.
Yep. I mean, that is literally why I do it. I mean, I don't want, I mean, I was like, sorted eating tendencies, like binging, purging, just fixated on, like, that's what my OCD gravitated to. And like, not having that is so freeing.
Like, that's, that's, that's the price of admission right there. It's worth every penny.
Yeah, absolutely.
So Robin, you are a wealth of knowledge. You are an inspiration and it was awesome to see you at the conference. Awesome seeing you on the, the film. Uh, so definitely people need to go check that out and watch it. I will pull whatever strings I can to try and get you on another stage at a conference, uh, in the not too distant future 'cause I would love for you to just keep sharing your story and being a light to those that would benefit from hearing it.
Oh, I would appreciate that assist so much as I don't know where to start. So, all I know is I should start writing this down and putting my thoughts together. Uh, and that's as far as it's gone for right now. So, thank you. I appreciate that and thank you for having me. It's been, I've been looking forward to this for a couple weeks now. So, really appreciate the invite.
My pleasure. My pleasure. Hopefully. [snorts] Are you going to any other conferences this year? Do you have anything on the calendar?
I do not have anything on the calendar right now. I have some ideas, but I'm not exactly sure. My daughter's going off to college though, so I'll be like freed up for the first time in years, so I'll be able to like just go. So,
Yeah. Go to all of them.
Yeah. I, yeah. If money was no object, I would go to all of them. I do know that I'll be doing, um, I'll be going to, uh, San Antonio for the, uh, what's it called now? The SMH conference, the Society of Metabolic Health Conference. Yeah. Uh, because it's in San Antonio. Not that it's close, 'cause I live north of Dallas, but it's in Texas, so I have to go. And no, I love Doug and Pam, so I'm looking, I always love going to those conferences. I'm excited about that. But yeah, I don't, that's not a stage I can go on because again, I don't speak to the science and those are all for CEUs. That's just for me to go see the people. But have I,
Well, most of the people out there in this world are not scientists. They're people that just benefit from the stories and they want to be able to talk to real people, uh, that have a compelling story. So your messaging, I would argue, will land in a meaningful way to more people than any scientist out there. So, you've got, you're wielding a lot of power for sure.
Wow. No, [laughter] I, and it's so funny. This has been a recent occurrence for me to even realize that. I started telling my story 'cause I hoped that I would help one person. And usually, I only have one person in mind when I do tell it. So this process of kind of going on this tour for the Cholesterol Code and meeting people after the films and doing the Q&As and the panels and all of that. Uh, people coming up to me and saying, "I heard you before this and I've followed you ever since." That's a weight on my shoulders that I didn't know I carried and now I want to do it justice. I want to serve it well.
You will. And because you're asking those questions and thinking in those terms, you 100% will. So,
Bright future ahead for sure. Where do people go to find out more about you? I know you're pretty active on X, right?
I am. So I, my handles are different and I never remember which one is which. So on X, I'm either Robin R. Dobbins, uh, or I'm just Robin Dobbins. And then like Facebook, I'm on it. Just look for Robin Dobbins. Like, how many, except for, just know that my name is start is R O B Y N not I N. And, uh, I also host a podcast called Ketobiography, so you could search for Ketobiography and find that out there. I am passionate about sharing stories, so I, and I just ask people to come on and share their stories, most of whom have never told their story before. So it's a completely new story, most people haven't heard before, which really inspires me. And I'm out there just, I also am a community coordinator at Metabolic Collective. So you can go to metaboliccollective.org and find me there.
Awesome. Well, Robin, I will link out, make it easy for people to find you. Keep finding good fight. If there's ever anything I could do to help move the needle forward, you just let me know. And I hope to see you at another conference here soon.
Yes, that would be awesome. Thank you.