Transcription
Yes, I was drifting along like this. I looked down, and that was a mistake because I just got this sense of this bottomless pit beneath me. It was one of the most frightening things I've ever experienced. It was absolutely a void and nothingness. And I could hear his thoughts, and he just said to me, "You don't want to go that way. You do not want to go that way." And he he just continued to lift me upward. So he started to talk to me about things that might happen. He even identified a person I would meet. Uh, and there was quite a few things he sort of directed in my in my attention towards my future that there's just no way anyone could know this. It hadn't happened yet. And they actually started to show me. It was like looking at a TV screen through a veil. I I got this view uh like watching a news program or something. A view of things and people that had not yet occurred.
This is Beyond with Heather Tash, where we examine near-death experiences and life itself, hopefully making this life a little better. Hello everybody. Welcome, and welcome to my guest, Colin Perry.
Hello Colin.
Hello Heather. How are you?
I am wonderful. It is fantastic to have you. I'm so excited to have a guest from Australia because a lot of my listeners are actually from Australia. So, um, I'm sure they will appreciate this.
I certainly do. And also, I really like your story because you highlight a few things that I don't always hear in other near-death experiences. So, I'm really excited for you to share it with my audience. And um, we'll talk more about your book at the end. And you publish that under C. Thomas Perry. But, uh, Colin, why don't you just go ahead and just jump in and, um, talk about what happened to you the day you had your near-death experience?
Sure. Well, I'll start shortly shortly before that. Um, at at the time, this was 2008, and I was 49 years old at the time, and I'd started to get chest pain. Uh, and I was concerned, obviously. I thought, "Oh, this feels unpleasantly like a bit of a a heart problem." So, I went to see my doctor, and she she told me to have a test, which I did, an ECG test, and said, "Look, this is worse with exertion, so make sure you don't exert yourself too much and just relax and take it easy." She said, "I'm not sure if this is heart issues or just some sort of lung infection or what it could be." So, I just relaxed and and laid back for a few days and didn't do terribly much. And after about a week, I I started to feel quite a lot better and thought, "Oh, look, I I think I'm okay. I don't think there's anything too serious here." Uh, so I thought I would go out into the garden and do some some trimming of the of the grass. So, I got the the trimmer out and started to pull on the cable to try and start the machine. And it was in a stubborn mood that morning and and just simply refused to start. So I was pulling and pulling on it, you know, getting quite determined about it as you do without thinking much. And um, after after a few minutes of this, suddenly uh I just like a big bang in the chest. I I started to cramp very severely right across my chest, and I knew immediately this is this is what the doctor was talking about. This is this is heart. This this is bad. Uh, and I was quite concerned because I was alone on my property. There was nobody else there at that time, and I thought this is not a good scenario. I'm a little concerned about this. But just as this was going on, um I was just standing there in in the back garden uh with the machine and looking upward, and I heard a massively loud voice. I've never heard anything like it before in my life. I'm still not sure if it was audible or just something I heard in my head. Uh, but it it's just this very loud voice said to me, um, "You are going to die, but I have things for you to do." Which immediately threw a conundrum up for me. Okay, if I'm going to die, what can I do? Uh, so I I just knew this had to be quite this there's just no way knowing it could be anything else. So I actually addressed him and just said, you know, Lord, what do you want me to do? and he just said, "Go inside, pack a bag, call an ambulance, and be ready." So, I managed to stagger it back inside and throw a few clothes into a into a bag and and called for an ambulance. And they were there quite quickly. It only it only took about 5 minutes for the ambulance to arrive. And when they did, the um there was a rookie, one of the one of the ambulance operators was a rookie on his first day. So he poor man, he uh he did the treatment on me while a more experienced one was looking over his shoulder. But um so they they said, "Look, we're not sure if this is hard. It seems like it might be, but we'll take the appropriate precautions." So they gave me um an injection of of morphine and some nitroglycerol under the tongue, which is the usual treatment to lower the blood pressure, and that was that was all good. and put me onto the gurnie and followed me out to to the ambulance and away we went to head for the hospital. And and a couple of minutes down the road they said, "Look, we'll uh we'll give you a little bit more morphine and and uh you know, another dose of the treatment just to make sure your heart is okay and we've taken the load off your heart." So, they did that, and um shortly after that, I started to feel I was going to pass out. I've passed out before in my life, and I know you know how it feels, and I said to them I'm going I can feel it coming. I'm going, and um then I just blacked out, and there was just complete darkness. Now as I said I have passed out before in my life, but it was nothing like this whatsoever. I was absolutely alert. I I was absolutely present and conscious, but a different sort of consciousness, and I was I was floating in this dark aquatic sort of environment. It felt like there was there was no immediate sensation. It was very drifty. It was actually quite pleasant at first, and I thought, "Oh, this is nice. I could I could handle this." Uh, and then as as time started to tick by, I realized I think I have died. And the realization started to dawn on me um this is not the same as just passing out. This is something entirely different. So with that realization came a fair amount of fear, and I started to become afraid and think hey I'm dead, you know, and and that realization threw me into a state of you know not panic but you know mild panic I guess, and I was just drifting along in this dark watery sort of environment, and as I became afraid I started to drift downward, and uh this made me more afraid. I thought hang on I'm not heading in the right direction. I thought I was supposed to see a light. I thought I was supposed to head towards a light. I don't see any light. What's going on here? And and as I was drifting along like this, I looked down, and that was a mistake because I just got this sense of this bottomless pit beneath me. It was one of the most frightening things I've ever experienced. It was absolutely a void, a nothingness, and I could feel the nothingness coming up from it. It was just emptiness. absolute lack of anything. Um, when I started to drift down further and become more afraid, and having been brought up a Christian, you know, I just immediately called out to Jesus. I said, "Jesus, come and help me." And I just sort of screamed it out with everything I had. And I did this a couple of times and just continued to drift and continued to go downward, and and I was really starting to become afraid at this point. Then um just out of out of the blue, a hand came just grabbed my forearm like this and started to heave me upward, and and I was being dragged upwards, and I didn't really get a chance to look terribly much. He he was above me and pulling me up at an incredibly rapid rate. So I was flying upward through what I don't know. It was it was very blurring and flashing past me. And I seem to be covering a huge amount of distance very very quickly. I could see things blurring and flashing past me. Um, and we just continued to go upwards, and and as we were he he spoke to me, but it wasn't like a voice that we hear. Uh, it was straight into me, into my head, into me, into my soul. And I could hear his thoughts. And he just said to me, "You don't want to go that way. you do not want to go that way." And he he just continued to lift me upward. Um, so I guess I was flying upward for what felt like a couple of minutes. And it felt like we must have I I have no idea about distance at all in that dimension, but we must have covered a huge distance in that period of time cuz we were really traveling. And uh it started to get lighter, and as as I went up it it became sort of almost like a cloudy misty sort of environment with quite a glow to it. Quite a glowing light. And finally we came to rest, and and it took me a little while to adjust to where I was and what was happening. And I started to sort of look around at my surroundings, and I realized there was a group of half a dozen or so angels standing around me in in in a semicircle, and and the one who had come to get me was there as well. So I just was was looking at them and thinking, "Wow, this is very special." Uh, and I started to feel a sensation of love just welling up inside me. And I realized it was actually emanating from these beings. And uh I'll just spend a couple of minutes talking about that in itself because just being there with these these beautiful angelic beings was was in itself something quite spectacular. Um, they were very tall. They were very all I can say is they were very noble. They gave this air of wisdom and ageless sort of knowledge and understanding, and it just was coming out of them at me, and I was just like I felt so small in their presence. I'm I'm a PhD. I'm a university professor. Uh, to be in their presence made me feel this big like a little child. Uh, they they were just so advanced and so wise. So, I I just sat there and soaked all this in for a minute, and and then um didn't really know how to react because my felt my chest felt like it was about to explode with the the beautiful power of this love. I just felt at home. I I I felt more at home than I've ever felt anywhere in my life. Uh, I could feel my family members were there. I couldn't see them, but I just knew they were there. Uh, ones who'd passed away. and and it it felt like a family reunion. That that's the sort of joy and love and and great sensations I was experiencing at that point in time. Um, the the way I try to explain it is if you can remember when you're a little child and your mother's really loving on you and giving you a hug and you just feel so loved. It was it was that beautiful warm feeling but amplified a hundred times. It was massively massively cherishing, and I just felt so loved. It it was a magnificent feeling. Um, and then the one who'd come to collect me just just said to me, uh we've we've come out to meet you um and to see you because you have a choice to make. So at this point he said uh you can if you wish come on with us to paradise or you can choose to go back to your life, and and the choice is yours he said. So have a think, let us know what is it that you would like to do. So I just took a moment, and I began to think look in my life I had five children. Uh, one of them was in a wheelchair. She'd been struck by a car when she was seven, and and a little 8-year-old boy, a 12-year-old girl, a 15-year-old girl. I I had children and responsibilities. Plus, I just did not feel that my my life's work was over and done. I I just felt like this is incomplete. I feel if I go now, I'm number one, abandoning my children, and number two, not not completing what I feel my life's task is is all about. And a lot of things came up about my life, and I I started to feel very unworthy in their presence uh and and quite filthy in their presence is the best way I can put it. It's it's like just being in this physical body um is is so so far beneath what they are and the dimension that they exist in that I really I really felt quite small and inferior, and I just thought no I I just don't feel like I can go on. I need to go back and look after my children. So I I told them this. I did once again become quite afraid, remembering I'm dead. And when I became afraid, a really interesting thing happened. It was like they became quite startled, and and the angels came and gathered around me and and calmed me down and made me um stopped me being afraid. They and they actually said to me, "There's no room for fear here. That fear does not belong in this place." Uh, so they made sure I I got out of that fear state and was back in this the calm sort of loving uh state of mind, which I found quite interesting that that anything to do with fear was just oh no they didn't like it. Fear was absolutely opposite of of what they were about. So then I said yeah look I feel I need to go back. Um, and they said the the one who came to get me said yeah sure we we can send you back. And he looked to one of the angels, and he was definitely the boss. They were looking to him. He was the leader. So, and he said to one of the angels, "Go and check the vessel. See that the vessel is good." Now, with all of this, no actual words, no lip movement. It was all just thoughts bouncing backwards and forwards. And I could I could hear their thoughts, they could hear my thoughts. It was just all on a common plane. and and we could directly communicate with each other, which was really special, really amazing cuz not only words we think words but also emotions, um motivations, all those thought processes behind the words, you could also feel them. So it was a real understanding of those beings, and and they have a very complete understanding of me and of all of us, I'm sure. So off flew this angel and went down and uh and in the distance in the far distance I could see the angel going to the ambulance, and the angel was moving around inside the ambulance, and I could see the ambulance uh operator working on me and moving around me, and that was quite special to to have that point of view from wherever I was. Uh, and then as that was happening, I I just turned around and looked at the one who had come to get me and I said, "Who are you?" You know, like I I realized this was a a special a special being that had come to get me. And and he said, "Um, I'm the one you call Lord." And for me, that's Jesus. There is there is no other. And I realized looking at him, yes, you look like Jesus. You are Jesus. you look human as opposed to the angels. There there was no doubt uh who this was. And I I was just overwhelmed at this point. My goodness, I am in the presence of Jesus Christ. This was amazing. And uh look, I I just fell down and just went, "Wow, you know, and just uh just was totally overwhelmed with with his presence." And um a really interesting thing happened. I had a tough life. Uh, as I said, my daughter had been, you know, put in a wheelchair, and I had a lot of grief and difficulty in my life. Um, so he said, "Let me come into you and let me do some healing on you because you've got some real damage inside." So I said, "Please, please do." And at that point, um, I felt him. He just he just came into my soul. Hard to describe, but he he joined with me in soul. And he started I could feel things shifting. I could feel emotions and and guilt and shame and things being shoved aside, and it was like rearranging the furniture I guess inside of me. And um I could really feel big changes taking place. But but more than that I felt totally joined to his consciousness and and I could feel his thoughts and his awareness. And that was mindblowing because I realized for the first time what what terms like omnipotent and omnipresent and uh omniscience, you know, what these terms actually mean that that his awareness is of everything. Of that few moments I had an awareness of everything when he was inside me. It was totally totally overwhelming. Uh, I could I could see what was happening in a village in Africa. where I could see what was happening in Vietnam. I could see what was happening everywhere. Anywhere I thought of, I could see what was going on just for that that short period of time. It was very exciting. It was very exhilarating. And uh I've never been the same since to to understand how much Jesus and God can can just know all things at any moment in time. So that was spectacular. That was absolutely spectacular. He he then withdrew from me again, and I was whoa. Okay. Sort of take a deep breath if I was actually breathing at that point. Um, and he said, "Okay, um we're going to send you back." The angel returned and said, "Yes, the vessel is good." And and I was okay. All right. So, I'm going back. And I just started to get inquisitive and say, "Where are we? And what's happening?" He said, "You know, you're not in paradise. we've come out to meet you. I could see a glow in the not too distant area, and uh that was where it was obviously. He said, "We we've come out to meet you to see whether you'll go on in there or whether you'll return." So you you're now going to return. That's your choice. And he started to talk to me about what I would encounter when I returned. He said, "You know, you're going to be heading back into that earthly dimension." And what there is no guarantee. He said that you will that you will come back. Now this was was news to me being brought up a Christian. I thought I'm saved. I'm saved. I'm born again. But he said there is still the potential for you to turn away. There is still the potential for you to forget God and and live a bad life. He said, "You must be careful of the choices you make in your life because the choices you make in your life will determine the path of the future." I thought, "Wow, okay. Now, I I really believe in the forgiveness of sin and salvation and those things and and I still do very more so than ever." But what he was saying is you still need to be on on your guard against evil. you still need to be on your guard against the powers of darkness that rule in this world. Uh so he started to talk to me about things that might happen. He even identified a person I would meet. Uh, and there was quite a few things he sort of directed in my in my attention towards my future that there's just no way anyone could know this. It hadn't happened yet. and they actually started to show me. It was like looking at a TV screen through a veil. I got this view uh like watching a news program or something, a view of things and people that had not yet occurred that were in my future. And you know, some of them I'm I'm aware of and have taken place, and others still have not taken place. I can't remember all that much about it because it all happened so quickly. Uh, and there was discussion going on between Jesus and the angels about what they would let me see, what they would let me be aware of, and what they wouldn't. And some things they were saying, "No, no, don't show
Him that. Yes, yes, he can see this."
So, it was a real, really interesting experience to have your future sort of vetted like this in terms of what they thought I should be able to see. And this went on for what felt like about five minutes. I guess there was quite a bit of backward and forwards in terms of this and warnings on how to respond to certain situations and people. And then once that was done, um, he said to me, "Okay, the time's come and we're going to send you back." And look, through all of this, it was a huge wrestle for me, Heather. I really did not want to leave because it was the most beautiful, loving sensation. And I felt so much at home and so much like I belonged and this is where I was meant to be. But I felt that sense of responsibility for my family. And as I said, I felt I needed to complete my life's mission, I guess you would call it.
And as he was going to send me back, he said, "I want you to tell people about this." He said, "This is a good reason for you to go back is to tell people, to make people aware of this place, aware of the heavenly dimension." He said that's important that people understand this and know this. So that was really one of my main motivations after I returned is to publicize and to make sure people got to hear about it. So he sent me off and I found myself floating again in what felt like water. And I saw a light and I went towards that light and suddenly I took a big breath, a great big gasp, and I was back in my body.
And honestly, it was like hitting concrete. It was so thick and heavy and dark after where I had been; it felt horrible. Um, not that I had had a heart attack, just coming back into my body felt horrible after where I had been and being in that spiritual sort of state. So there I was suddenly lying again in the ambulance and the poor rookie ambulance operator was standing over me with the two defibrillator pads in his hand and saying, "Oh, you're back with us." And I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, I'm here. He said, "I was about to resuscitate you, you know, but you've spontaneously come back." I thought, wow. And I said to him, "I must have been gone for a long, long time. A lot of stuff's happened. Amazing things have happened." And he looked quizzically at me and he said, "No, you've only been gone for a minute." I was stunned. I was absolutely stunned because to me, what I had experienced and been through had to be 20 minutes to half an hour minimum, uh, and yet I came back in and only a minute had passed in Earth time as such. So I was straight away just really amazed by that, that there were these two entirely different time frames going on. So this was separate to our earth time. This was heavenly time.
And then he said some interesting things happened. He said I was had no shirt on. And I said, "Well, where's my shirt? I'm a bit cold." And he said, "Oh, your shirt was soaking wet, so I threw it on the floor over here." And I thought, "Okay, could you pass it up to me, please?" And he did. And he passed it up and I grabbed it and I said, "Hang on, this shirt is absolutely dry." And he was, "What?" And he felt it himself and he said, "Wow, this was wet a moment ago. This shirt was absolutely wet." Uh, which was really interesting because I'd been, you know, floating in this watery type environment, but but obviously something was bleeding through and he actually thought it was wet, was feeling that that dimension or whatever it was um in in what he was holding of my shirt. So, that was really interesting. Um, it was a dry shirt. Uh, and we just headed onto the hospital. The ambulance had actually pulled over while this was happening and just by coincidence there was a paramedic expert just happened to be driving past at that time and he was able to come in and supervise what was going on in the ambulance and you know once I was resuscitated everything was going okay. I still had pain in my chest but one interesting thing had happened prior to that; obviously I was afraid. I was afraid of death. I was afraid of dying. I was having a heart attack. And at that point, I realized I have no fear. I don't care if I die. It doesn't matter. If I die, great. I'll be going back there.
Um, so that was a fantastic feeling that even though I had this heaviness of being back in my body and even though I had the chest pain still, all the downside of potentially dying had just gone. And um I just knew, yep, God's got me. God's got the situation in hand. I don't need to worry about a thing. And they just took me on to the hospital. Um, did their tests. They test for a particular enzyme that tells you you've been having a heart attack. And that didn't show up for a bit over 12 hours, but it did show up in the long run and say, "Okay, you have had a heart attack most definitely." So they chose to put a stent in my heart. Interesting thing, the angels were still talking to me. I could still hear them. Not all the time, but sometimes they'd come through and they just start whispering to me about things. And one thing they said was um they said, "We've healed three arteries, but one we won't heal." And I've wrestled with that for a long time as to why they wouldn't heal the other artery. And I realized, hey, I probably wouldn't have a testimony if they'd healed everything. They would have just said, "No, you didn't have a heart attack. You're fine. Off you go." But that my testimony relied on that, the fact that I had had a heart attack. Um, so that was quite an interesting thing.
Um, the other thing is I was going to meet this person, this woman, and and that they talked to me about being in my future, and I said, "Well, what's going on with that?" and they said to me, "She's within a kilometer of the hospital right now." And I said, "Oh, okay." As it was, we met up um within probably a couple of weeks. And sure enough, she lived about 800 meters from that hospital. I'd never met her before. I had no idea of this. So, they were talking to me about my future and things that were going to happen uh quite clearly. Um, then once I had the stent in the head cardiologist came to see me and and he said, "Mr. Perry, you're one of the very fortunate people who uh it appears you've had a heart attack before and your heart has actually grown new arteries around blockages." And I thought to myself, ah, I think I know how this has happened. This was the angels. Uh, I've never had a heart attack before. Uh, so him talking to me about that just confirmed to me that what those angels had said to me, they were doing things, miraculous things to me that that were pretty much unexplainable. Uh, and that went on. I had a very strong sense of God's presence for quite some time after that. And friends came to visit me. I said, "Please bring in a Bible. I just really feel I need to read the Bible." And they did and the most amazing stuff was happening. I would just throw open the Bible and read a verse and no matter where I threw it open to it was about being raised from the dead. It was everywhere I went; it was it was Psalm 30. It was um the story of Lazarus. It was the story of the resurrection. It was every time I opened the Bible, I would be reading about somebody being raised from the dead. It was stunning. That's this is obviously God's controlling every little moment for me just to confirm uh what's gone on which was beautiful.
Uh, from there on in it was just a story of recovery from um the heart attack and and physically building up my strength again which uh took a while. Uh, and then it was really piecing it all together and and what it all meant for me and what I needed to do and I started to tell people about my experience. But the responses were very interesting in that some people are incredibly negative and critical and and skeptical about it. And the moment you start talking about it, they're immediately looking for reasons why it couldn't have happened and and tearing it down. Others are curious, but uh I think you're a bit loopy. Uh, and and others just could not get enough of it. So there was this real contrast of reactions and I had to think about it. It took me seven years to finally get around to publishing my book. Um, and a lot of the reason for that was that the strange mixture of reactions. Uh, so I didn't want to dive too quickly into that without carefully thinking about what I was doing, which is one of the reasons I published under C. Thomas Perry instead of Colon Perry. So I thought, well, I can still publish it, but that be slightly another persona. Uh, which, you know, I was a little worried about my university career and what people would say in that academic world. Eventually I got around to publishing and um that's that's the basics of the story and a lot more has gone on since then. New awarenesses uh new I guess abilities to some degree to see into the heavenly dimension in terms of visions and dreams and uh quite a change in me uh long term.
Um, probably the biggest change is that for most of my life I had faith. I had a belief in God. Uh, but it stopped being a faith and a belief in God. And it just started to be knowledge. It's just I know I know God. I know Jesus. I've met him. And that's a really nice feeling to have in that there's no reason to doubt uh of of being in his presence and he sent me back. So that that's a very powerful thing to have happened. So that's absolutely established my belief in Jesus and God.
Colin, your story is so fascinating and I am one of those people that can't get enough and I know my audience is the same way. So we love hearing these stories and I have quite a few questions about some of the things that you talked about. Uh, let's kind of start from the beginning. You were floating in the darkness and I thought it was interesting that you were kind of okay until you started to be afraid and that's when you started to sink. So, did the fear cause you to start going downward?
I believe so. And I believe that's what's the saying? There's nothing to fear except fear itself. And uh I believe fear what does it say in the Bible? Perfect love casts out fear. And that that is very much my experience that the fear was actually dragging me down. The being afraid was alienating me from heaven if you know what I mean. So the the concept of faith and hope and love those things are what heaven is made of. And fear is the opposite. So fear, hatred, those sorts of emotions that we call negative really are a negative and they really do drag us away from that path toward heaven even in this life.
And what was interesting though is that you were a Christian and you called out to Jesus, but was that necessary for you to call out? I mean, if you hadn't, would you have kept going down?
That's a question I don't quite know the answer to, and I've considered that long and carefully. Um, yeah, I I've read a lot of other NDEs and I've read of some who actually did go down into the darkness, but a large light came and collected them. Yeah. Um, and for me, I did call out and I I always think of that verse in the Bible, anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. And that's just what I did. Uh, I I don't really know what would have happened otherwise. I suspect I would have gone down. And I suspect God still would have collected me. Um, but but I can't definitively say that.
I thought it was interesting too. Um, you were told that your choices can lead you astray. And I was curious, is that referring more to what you believe or more about your actions and interactions?
I believe it's all of the above, Heather. Um, okay. I look I believe in God's forgiveness, universal forgiveness for those who who um confess. You know, I'm not Catholic, but confession is a good thing. Good for the soul. Uh, those who confess and and recognize the fact that they've done evil and and continue to do evil and and are sorry for that fact and wish to change. I think that is the absolute key. That is the core of Christian repentance and what it actually means. Uh, and for me that's what he seemed to be referring to was you I would be in a situation and I was um in a situation where I could have turned away from Christianity just because of the sort of pressures coming on me from people and the situations I found myself in some of this from within my own family. Um uh so there was quite a bit of pressure for me not to go down this path of believing the NDE, believing in God. Uh, but I had to make the choice. I had to make the choice to stand up for this and to publicly state it. And there was quite a bit of pressure on me not to publicly state it. I think people I knew found it embarrassing or or difficult. Um, but I made a choice. No, this is this is my story. This is what actually happened to me and I'm not going to um sweep it under the carpet. I'm going to make sure that people do know about this.
I was curious too that when you said "who are you?" He didn't say "I am Jesus." He said "I am the one you call Lord." So I was curious if somebody else believed in God but they called God something else would he still be their Lord? Did you get any kind of a sense of that?
Once again, I I I'm not the authority on this, but uh from from my experience, I don't think he announces himself. I think for some people who have NDEs, that's it. He's in the throne room and they know it's Jesus. It's Jesus. Um, I don't think he has to announce himself. I think this is the point. He is who he is. Like that's the name of God. I am I am what I am. And um he he actually when he was on earth he said you know no no man comes to the father but through me. I I think he's a universal pathway to god and after meeting him and understanding him I I realized he is a universal pathway to god whether you believe in him or not he exists. He's there and he is actually the intermediary between God and humanity. And I don't think there is any other intermediary between God and humanity. I I mean other religions claim to bring you to a higher level and things like this, but I think when it comes to the actual transition from earth to heaven, I I think Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life as as he claimed to be. Um that's that's my impression. I I don't think look as as I say in my book and I've said to many people, he didn't wear a sign across his forehead saying I am Jesus. He he just was who he was. And as soon as I sort of my thoughts had cleared and I just looked at him and I realized, yeah, of course he is that um very obviously wearing the white the white gown and with a beard with mid-length dark hair, a very Middle Eastern looking face. It was Yeah, it was him. Uh and yeah, I I just don't think he needs to announce who and what he is. I think he leaves that to the person to decide.
I guess what I'm getting at is could is he still the intermediary even if it's a not a Christian that's coming through there? Okay. It's I've been doing obviously a lot of research and reading on all sorts of things and recently there's been a lot of appearances of Jesus to people of other faiths, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, uh, and he's just appeared to them spontaneously and many of them have converted to Christianity as a result and and they're quite open about the fact that this has happened. Um, and that indicates to me, well, yeah, there is there is something happening here. I I I don't I don't want to be judgmental. Many many Christians do come across as very judgmental of of all the other religions. I don't want to be judgmental and I think people are genuinely seeking for God and genuinely trying to find God genuinely. But I I think to me and from what I've experienced, Jesus is the way. Jesus is the way to reach God. Um and I think about well what does Hinduism promise? Reincarnation, Buddhism, reincarnation, come back, cycle, cycle, cycle, cycle, and eventually in many thousands of years, you might reach God. Jesus says, "Bang, I'm the way. Here it is." Uh, so I know which one I'd prefer straight up. That, you know, that that's my my position on it. Uh, but I do not judge anyone in terms of are they going to hell? I really dislike that sort of attitude. You're going to hell unless you follow this way. I I don't quite want to say that to people because I don't know if it's the case or not. Even the Bible casts a question on that. The Apostle Paul said, you know, th those who do not know the law will be judged according to their consciences and and the words that come out of their mouth. If if even the Apostle Paul um took that position, well, I I'm going to honor that and and not claim to be condemning people when I'm not in a position to do so.
One of the most incredible things about your near-death experience is that you felt what it was like to be one with Jesus. And that sounds utterly incredible. Uh, can you just tell us a little bit more about that?
Yeah. Yeah. I I'll attempt to. Um, it's a very difficult thing to put into words. When my first sensation was that he was shifting things around and healing me. But then as I became more aware of him, the being uh and and being connected so closely to him, um it was first this this absolute exhilaration of of knowing I was seen through time and space uh in a way I I could only ever hope to imagine. Uh it was just this sense of this huge enormous oneness of everything that ever has been and ever will be and and anywhere in the universe. All of it was was accessible is is the best word I can use. All of it was something that that he was just aware of all the time. It's too big for our human minds to really just comprehend. But um I mean when Jesus said when he when he ascended he said you know all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me and that's a huge statement when you actually think about that and he he was saying you know the the visible image of the invisible god I mean he had he had actually the whole of the godhead living within him. We we have trouble comprehending this and that was what I felt. It was everything was contained in this being. Jesus is magnificent. He was sent to earth for a very powerful purpose. And obviously that has played out. I mean, if he wasn't who he claimed to be, I doubt very much if an insignificant teacher for three years in in the Middle East would have affected the world the way he has and now a third of the world's population a Christian. Uh it's it's pretty massive. It it is so so beyond this plane and this dimension to try and understand things like that. And it is to our minds it's the realm of sci-fi. Uh but it but it's actually a level at which we operate that we perhaps are just waking up to uh in terms of the the human awareness. I I think science has been one of the great enemies of uh this level of truth and claiming that unless unless it can be physically read and physically measured, it doesn't exist. I mean, that's a sweeping statement. Unless something can be measured physically uh within the physical world, then it doesn't exist. Sorry. That to me that just does not hold water. Um that's it's a very broad claim that I don't think stands up to to real
Analysis. Uh, yes. So I know it exists. I've experienced it. So have thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people who have experienced NDEs and experienced spiritual spiritual experiences of all sorts. Um, and and I think science has really been used to try and quell our spirituality. That upsets me. I don't like that. I won't say I'm anti-science. It's fine. Physical things for the physical realm, but this is beyond. This is very literally another dimension.
And I've done a lot of reading into this and research into this and and prayer into this. Come to understand that we live in a layered multiverse. It's not a universe. There are there are layers and dimensions and things and it's it's actually written into the Bible very cleverly in different ways, uh, about what they call the levels of heaven. Paul actually said he well he said a man I know and he was talking about himself went to the third heaven and heard things that could not be uttered. I can really relate to that. That's that's largely what happens for me. I couldn't utter what I felt and experienced. It's too big for us to really put into words in this dimension.
So when you merged or when you became one with Jesus, is that then when you you know, kind of open that idea to the multiverse and all these different dimensions?
Yeah. Look. Yes. And the whole experience, I mean I was in one place, I then transitioned, and then I was in another place, and then I could see the light and there was another place over there. There were different levels, and this is this is confirmed by so many NDEs of there there's a city that that so many people have seen this glowing huge gigantic golden city, the city of God and the city of heaven, and and that so many people have seen it. So many people have seen it.
Did you see that?
I've seen it in in dreams. I've seen it in visions. I I did not see it at that time, but I could see the glow coming from it, uh, in the distance, and I knew exactly what it was, but um, had chose not to go there at that time.
And it was interesting because you said they came out to meet you, that you were not in the heavenly realm. I guess you were just outside of it.
Look, once again, as I say, there are levels of heavenly realms, plural. We tend to think about it as one, but there's it's like a layer cake. So, we're on this level, and there's a level above us, which is just the angelic level, which is angels traversing, spiritual entities traversing through this this level, and that that's sort of related to time, time, and space. Um, then there's another level above that which is where I think I was, and that's the the habitation of the archangels, which is very much to do with truth. This is why Jesus said the way, the truth, the life. This was the three three levels I think he was actually talking about. Uh, the truth is just to do with that knowledge of all that that knowledge of everything. You you know what is true, you know what is not true. It's just knowledge that you have. That is the level of truth I think Jesus was talking about. Then you have the life which is what what we call the throne room which is where God sits and exists. And um that's where there is no death, that that's there is nothing apart from pure life at that level. And that's these three levels. I think I was sitting probably in that second level approaching the third. It it's very interesting. I've I've gone back and read the Bible with very different eyes and and like the visions of Ezekiel. Amazing. Um, he talks about he saw uh wheels within wheels just floating above the earth and then above them was these living creatures which were extremely um advanced, some sort of angelic being that were controlling that and then above that he saw the throne room. So there's very clearly these three levels throughout the uh the prophecies in the Bible.
You saw bits of your future. So, have you thought much about pre, you know, predestination versus free will?
Yes. Um, the answer is yes. I've thought extensively about this and and I I I actually believe it's a combination of the two. That's what I think. I I talk about it in in the Bible in that it's as if we in our lives, we're driving along a highway in a car. Okay? We're we're on this level and the angels and and the angelic and and God are up up above in a in a helicopter if you like, um, seeing looking down on us and they can see what's up ahead. They they can see into the future. They know what's coming, what what's whether there's some threat on the road up ahead or an intersection or a turn. It's still up to us which way we turn. But they're trying to say to us, um, if you go this way, you may get into trouble. If you go that way, things will go well. You'll reach your destination. So, just a little metaphor for I think the way things work. And they're actually speaking to us to try and guide us in the ancient paths, you might call them. Um, the ways that's why Jesus calls it the way. You know, there there is correct and incorrect choices right throughout our lives. And if we make them according to God's principles basically, we will have a good life. And that's that's what he promises us. If if we choose to do things the way he instructs us, things will go well. Whereas if we choose to ignore and go our own direction and do what might come from selfish motives, lustful motives, whatever, then we're going to get ourselves into trouble. Uh, and that I think that's the free will aspect. But I think there's another aspect where it talks about, you know, God has chosen us to be aware. And this doesn't happen to everyone. I think we can all see that. Uh, God has chosen certain people to be aware and chosen certain people to have their eyes open. And Jesus said this a lot. If you have ears to hear, if you have eyes to see, uh, you know, hear what I am saying. Uh, which goes at an entirely different level. So yes, I I think predestination does exist to some extent, but I think it's up to us how we respond to that predestination. I don't think it's it's absolutely determined for our entire life start to finish. We have no choice. No, I don't believe in that sort of predestination. We have free will.
And are you still getting visions of future events?
It's not as clear as visions of future events. Yes, the answer is yes. Um, as as you can see from the the prophetic writings in the Bible, it doesn't always come in a form that you expect or understand, like like we are viewing things in other dimensions, forces, powers, authorities that are that are way beyond our comprehension. Um, this is why I think a lot of the book of Revelation intrigues me. I've read it never endingly. Uh, it it's amazing. But there are things in there that that really people tend to like to say are figurative, but I think they're actually literal. Um, it speaks of an incredibly dangerous time. Says a time of trouble like has never been before and never will be is coming on the earth. Uh, it it talks about the earth being hit by a star falling from heaven, causing massive earthquakes, causing the sky to go dark with clouds, causing the sun to be red and the moon, you know, blood blood moon, dark sun, uh, poisoned waters in the oceans, uh, massive, massive death and destruction. And it's a warning. I mean, God is warning us about this in this book. People can choose to accept it or they can say, "Oh, this is just another prophetic another prophetic image." But, um, to me, the fact that 2,000 years ago, they were able to list the exact things that would occur if an asteroid or or a meteor of a large size hit the Earth. It's a very good summary of what would occur. Uh, so to me it seems to indicate we're we're in for some really really perilous times on the earth. Um, but beyond that there's the intervention, the return of Christ. And I believe that's that's an actuality as well. I believe there will be a time when the the higher dimension actually descends onto the earth and saves us. And Jesus said very clearly, "If I did not return, no life would survive on the earth." Uh, that's um that's what I believe is going to occur. It sounds really out there, but once you've been there and once you've seen what's going on on those dimensions, quite possible. Quite possible and I believe likely.
And do you feel I don't know if you're getting visions of this, but do you feel that's something that's coming soon?
I do get that sense. Um, I I could not possibly try to put a year on it, but but I think all of the all of the signs are are building up to to this happening. Um, it it's very very interesting what's happening in Israel and Palestine at the moment. And I think that is a central port. Jerusalem is a hot spot spiritually. Jerusalem is the site of the temple and according to the prophecies, it's going to be the site of the kingdom of God when he restores the earth. Um, so in fact there's verses that say you know all nations will gather together against Jerusalem which sounds a little like United Nations to me. Uh, and this this is all looking quite possible and quite likely the way things are are unfolding at the moment. I'm not going to get into who's right or wrong. I don't not even getting into that uh that situation. But something is going on there that is a a timeless conflict between good and evil is being acted out I believe right now in the Middle East. And um I think forces are going to come into play over the next decade or two that are going to be quite challenging for our society as a planet. Uh, and I I once again believe God has his hand on this. I believe God has all of this under control in a way that we just can't imagine. So although it is scary and it is extremely scary, there is also this beautiful picture of of the society to follow where he says, you know, I will wipe away the tears from every eye. There will be no more sorrow. There will be no more death. There will be no more sickness. It will be a a beautiful and eternal society that will be set up on the earth. We will ascend to the next level as such. Um, that that's my belief for the future and that's the sorts of things I see sometimes in visions. I describe one vision I've had in in great detail in my book. Um, there there's all sorts of interesting things with with how things were seen by the prophets thousands of years ago and how things are unfolding. For example, the prophet Joel and in Revelation, it talks about an army of locusts descending over the the hills of Israel and before them, in front of them, it's a garden of Eden, and behind them it's it's decimated and burnt, it says. And these these locusts are shooting shooting fire out of their tails is how it's described in the prophecy. And um it just God really just showed me this one day in a vision and I saw a huge drone army flying over and and just shooting down missiles and which is exactly what's going on at the moment in in terms of warfare uh in Ukraine. Iran is making massive numbers of drones. China is making massive numbers of drones. Warfare in the future is going to be very largely drone warfare. And it will look and sound very like a massive locust army approaching the same drone, the same noise. And I think, wow, that's quite possibly that's a prophet 2,000 years ago seeing a drone army coming over the hills and decimating what's going on down there. And and how would they describe it? They didn't know what a drone is. They don't even know what a flying machine is. So they describe it as an army of locusts shooting fire out of its tails. That that to me is some indication that these prophecies were seeing times that are pretty close to now and is good indication that this is likely to occur in the not too distant future is as as much as I would say.
Colin, this is just fascinating talking to you. I know there's a lot of people that are going to want to pick up your book. So, where can they find it? I assume Amazon.
Yeah. Yeah, Amazon. Uh, look, most most bookstores uh have it available. Um, it's called Dying to Be Alive by C. Thomas Perry. So, if you search Dying to be Alive, C. Thomas Perry, you'll you'll find it. It's it's out there. Um, and yeah, look, I I would encourage you to read it. It it's not only the story of my MDE. It's also a lot of the things we've been discussing in terms of the nature of time and who God is and and visions and human potential for for seeing and communicating with God and the angels and those sorts of areas are also discussed in it. So I would really encourage people to have a look.
You have piqued my interest. So I will be one of those people picking up your book.
I am I am just thrilled to talk to you today. I there's just so many things you brought to this conversation that were really intriguing and I so appreciate you taking the time to be here. For people that are listening right now and if there's one thing you want them to take away from our conversation, what would it be?
Oh, easy. Get to know Jesus. Um, we we see Jesus as this religious stereotype figure. Uh, look, Jesus is more than you can imagine. And he's been sent to the earth for a purpose and get to know him personally. Speak to him, communicate with him. It may not happen at first, but be persistent. Knock, keep on knocking, and the door will be opened. Uh, Jesus wants to know every human being on the planet. He does know every human being on the planet, but he wants us to get to know him from our end. I think that has that has been the transformational thing in my life and and so many people I know uh understand Jesus, understand he's real, understand he's taking part in your life in every moment. And that's a really important realization. That's what I hope people can take away.
Well, thank you, Colin. It has been absolutely my pleasure to have you here today. I really enjoyed this.
I have absolutely enjoyed it too, Heather. Thank you so much for having me on.
You were so welcome. What a conversation. I knew we had a fascinating near-death experience, but wow, did we cover a lot. I loved that Q&A. And as you know, I like to bring a variety of guests on that have had a variety of experiences. So, his is different than many of the others that we've listened to. I do plan to buy his book if you plan to get it as well. It's called Dying to Be Alive. And remember, it's under C. Thomas Perry. I will have a link to that in the description. I'll also have his email address in there in his bio information. I just found Colin really fascinating. I enjoyed hearing his perspective on various things. Share with me what stood out to you.
There were so many things. I really found it intriguing what he was talking about in terms of future revelations. It's not really something uh that I've heard a lot about. So, I thought it was really interesting. Of course, when he was becoming one with Jesus and all the things that he said that he experienced and he saw, I just found that to be really interesting as well. There were just so many aspects to it. So, please share your thoughts. If you prefer just to say, "I made it to the end." As you know, that's great as well. But I tell you, there's a lot of things to comment about in this episode. So, share your thoughts there and then also go ahead and give it a like if you haven't yet, if you enjoyed it. And then also, if you haven't subscribed, I would love it if you would. Thank you to all of you that have. I am so grateful for all of you that continue to come back and watch my channel week after week. You guys are the best. For those of you that are new, remember I have so many past episodes with fabulous guests and you can always find a link to that in my description and you'll just find all kinds of stuff there. You'll find just a general book link and you'll not only find Collins book there, but it'll take you to all of the books that my guests have written. And so if you're looking for an NDE book, it's a great place to look. Uh, let's see. Anything else you want to cover?
I think that's it. Just I want to mention, please come looking for me. Don't count on YouTube to send me out. I have a new episode every week and I have some wonderful guests coming up that I'm so excited about and hopefully you will be too. Have a fantastic day everybody. I do hope that I will see you in the next episode. And it looks like Bubby's just going to hop up here and he's going to say goodbye as well. All right, have a great day everybody. Take care. Thanks for joining me on Beyond with Heather Tesh. Please add comments and questions you'd like future guests to answer. Also, if you liked what you heard, please hit the thumbs up button and subscribe. That'll help keep this podcast going. You can also go to Beyond with Heather Tesh to look for more episodes.