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That's right, we're back like we never left. Yes, sir. Hey everybody, welcome back to Talking Wealth. My name is Downtown Josh Brown. I'm here with my pal Kevin Thompson. Kevin is a financial adviser just like me. We are industry professionals, not industry commentators. We literally do this for a living. Um Kevin is the founder and CEO of 9i Capital Group, a feebased registered investment advisory firm based in Fort Worth, Texas, where he guides high- netw worth clients through holistic wealth and risk management frameworks, investment strategy, tax planning, retirement income design, etc. Welcome back to the show, Kev. How are you?
I appreciate this, my man. And we are doing well down here in Texas outside of the Cowboys defense. We're good.
You hear how I professionalized your introduction? That was pretty good, right?
Yeah. I I I want to meet that guy. Seriously.
All right. Uh last time we spoke, we were talking about smaller raas versus larger firms. And uh you really wanted to say something, but the camera was off and it occurred to you two days later. So, let's let's let's clear the decks and then we'll get into what we're talking about today.
Yeah. I had a little let's spray the scalier moment, right? So, I don't want people to think that we anyone's disparaging $50 million RAS. But one thing I do want people to understand is you have a $50 million RA that's on the the coast like in New York or or San Francisco. That's entirely different than a $50 million RAA that's in Alabama or Texas. Because think about it this way. 80 bips on $50 million. That's $400,000 a year. You keep your cost down really, really low, taxes and everything like that. You can be taking home $300,000 a year in Alabama. That's a really good living. But again, in New York City and on the coast, it may not look as well, but again, I think it's it's it's just important to understand location matters uh uh significantly where you put your RAIA.
Yeah, I think that's right. I think when you're talking about size, it's relative to your clientele and your local market and where your actual cost of living is.
Yeah, it's a really good point. And then uh a lot of people discuss the size of their firm without discussing the size of their average client.
Yeah, you could be a you could be a family office with one client, $50 million and uh you know it's it's a totally different it's a totally different way of practicing.
than um Okay. All right. I think it's really important. Do you feel better now?
I know the audience does.
I'm sorry, but I was texting you. I was like, I got to say this.
No, I'm with you. I know the audience feels better. All right. All right. Today, we got a whole bunch of stuff we want to do. We're going to start with this Kyle Bush um IL story. Just for starters, for people who are unaware, Kyle Bush is a world famous NASCAR driver. And I think most people would say he is a hugely successful professional athlete and and an entrepreneur. In addition to that, he's been around the sport his whole life. And people just assume like wealthy people have their their together and they don't make dumb decisions or poor decisions or anything like that. And unfortunately, that's not always the case. And um Kevin, I feel like before we even get into the IL scam part of it and what he's alleging, I think we should just start with like professional athletes in general don't always have their their act together.
Well, I guess I would know that, right? Being a professional former professional athlete. said, "Yeah, quite often times, I mean, we're we're relying on other people to help make these decisions, whether it's your agent getting you the best contract, whether it's your uh CPA doing your taxes, whether it's just a guy who's getting you the insurance. So, yeah, you're relying on these people to help you make the best decisions because again, we our job is to go out and perform and uh sometimes it just doesn't work out the way we planned."
Okay, so here's Let's play this video.
Here we are in New York City. Samantha and I are at one of the major news stations here in New York City. And as many of you may have seen, we have a press release out that we are in litigation with Pacific Life in regards to IL policies and insurance policies that are also retirement policies for planning for our future. And unfortunately, ours did not go well.
Yeah, as you'll hear when this broadcast comes out, it was a major scam. We tried to do what we thought was best for our family, for Brexen and Lennox. We were trying to be financially responsible for them and plan for our future. And little did we know that by investing money in this scam, it's all gone. And so the reason we came out here today is, as you guys know who have followed us for a while, every time God puts a struggle in our path, we're going to try to use it for good. And so we're out here speaking out about what happened because this just isn't happening to athletes and celebrities. This is happening to teachers, police officers, veterans. This is happening to widows. These are people who are 70 years old. They have nothing else to fall back on. These are people who are, you know, they've worked hard. They've made a small business. They are ready to retire and they buy into these scams and they lose absolutely everything. And so, you know, Kyle and I will use this platform to try to do all the good that we can. And so, we're going to keep fighting Pacific Life and we're going to show the world that this was a huge and utter scam.
That's right. So, tune in for further updates as we come along further in the case.
Wow. All right. You're laughing, but I want to So, what's your what's your im not are they right, are they wrong, what's your immediate reaction to just like what they're saying?
So, calling it a scam is a bit much. What Bernie Maid off did was a scam, a scheme. Like, this is this wasn't a scam. You put your money in this product. You just didn't understand how it works. Ca case in point, they may have sold you one thing or the other, but at the end of the day, it wasn't a scam. It worked exactly like it was supposed to work. Again, I'm not a a proponent of ILS or VULs, but at the end of the day, scam is a bit much.
Could it be a scam if it worked exactly the way it was supposed to work, but it was explained to them differently, or there were words used that were deliberately misleading in order to gain their trust to sell them this contract? like it can it can it be a little bit of both? I guess.
it could be a little bit of both, but I just it's it's a failure and so this is okay. I don't want to disparage. I I have friends on the non professional side.
We're not even commenting on whether or not ILs are good or bad.
We're we're commenting on maybe the idea that they were misled in this particular case, which sounds like it's part U. Did you see the lawsuit?
No, I I have not read it. I have not read it on. just just four uh four four aspects to it.
Um misrepresented product and upside promise. So he is saying that he was told and maybe he was and maybe he wasn't. This is what they're alleging. He was told that if he pays a million dollar annually for 5 years, he would be able to withdraw $800,000 a year starting at age 52 taxfree. Instead he alleges that his premiums 10.4 million in total did not acrue and that the cash value growth was severely impaired. He discovered a sixth premium notice on what he thought was a 5-year payment plan.
So that's like where they said, "Oh, wait, wait, wait. What's going on?"
So they're saying failure to disclose the true risks, the assumptions, and the costs. Um, they're also saying unsuitable sales and a conflict of interest because the agent collected a 35% upfront commission before the money was even placed and he didn't know about it in a he didn't understand the commission arrangement. Um, he's saying the marketing was a quote tax-free retirement vehicle rather than a higher cost permanent life insurance plus cash value product, which is what it should have been called. And then the last thing is negligent misrepresentation, breach of fiduciary duty, violation of the North Carolina unfair and deceptive trade practices act. He's looking for $8.5 million which is their losses. Um even though the total premium paid was 10.4 million. So you could take those one by one or so there's so much involved here.
So I'll go back and say when she said we were scammed out of all this money, there's nothing in there. There is cash value in the policy. Let's just call it what it is. It may not be as much as you want, but there's going to be some kind of cash value in the policy. Let's just call that what it is. So, that's strike one for me. Part two. Was it not explained? It could possibly be that. But here is my rub.
What is your team that you have around you doing? Like, I know I often make fun of the fiduciary standard in regard to like, oh, it's just a marketing ploy. But in this context, where was your fiduciary? Where was your trustee looking over this? Where were the where were the attorneys when you're talking about putting a million dollars a year into something?
It sounds like it's so it sounds like he thought this insurance agent, which is probably somebody that was introduced to him.
Yeah. Like, all right, let's assume Kyle Bush doesn't take a cold call. And okay, so let's assume this person came into his life either because he bought a different type of insurance from this person or someone in his circle trusted this person or it's a brother-in-law or it's a cousin or
someone he knows someone he knows, right? Let's assume this is not like an off the street. Okay.
Yeah. A lot of people, and you would agree with this, assume that anyone they're working with in a financial context is a fiduciary.
Mhm. an insurance broker is not a fiduciary, but they don't exactly come out and say, "By the way, I'm not your fiduciary." So, it sounds like this couple just had an assumption. How could this person screw us over? They're helping us with our financial uh uh situation. I don't like I don't think the general public understands the distinction between suitable uh fiduciary best interest financial salesperson versus financial advisor. I just there's no way this guy's a race car driver.
Yeah. He doesn't know this stuff. And this is what can Rostad who's the head of the fiduciary standard and institute and he's one of the big proponents of this. That's what he says. Like we need to find have a have a distinction between what's a fiduciary standard and what's not and hold those people accountable. Maybe make everybody a fiduciary.
We have one. The problem is the nomenclature within the industry.
Yeah. An insurance person can walk up to somebody and say, "I'm a financial consultant."
Yeah. True. The person hearing that doesn't hear not fiduciary. They hear, "Oh, this person will consult with me on my finances."
Yeah. It's a I mean m I think Michael Kitsy sued the regulators over this like it's a it's a naming it's a like a uh it's a naming convention issue. Um, why are I ILS controversial just just in
I know there's a lot of reasons but is it is the main contro is the main controversy that the actual suitability for this like the client that truly should be sold this product. It's so narrow that for most high net worth investors it's not the right suggestion. However, it's so profitable to sell that the the potential pool of people that it's sold to is wider than it should be. Is that one of the main reasons?
No. I think the main reason why it's the way it is is because the industry, the insurance industry in itself has done a poor job educating advisors on what they're actually selling. And what I mean by that, they'll they'll throw spaghetti against I've been in these back offices in these in these agencies. Throw spaghetti against the wall. You go get your uh insurance license in three weeks and bam, go sell some Whole Life or go sell some ILS or VULs. And and these people know nothing about the product that they're selling. Now, there are people that have been in this industry for 20 plus years that know this product in and out. David Kinders of the world, the Andy Pankos of the world, all those guys, they know this stuff. The Tracy Lounsberries. But here's the issue. What's happening to these types of individuals in regards to the people that are just entering the business, they'll sell a product and then a year or two goes by. They're no longer in the business because they failed out and now you're wondering, well, they told me this was going to be a five-year product. Well, it it was, but this person is no longer in the business. Now you have to retrain someone else on why you bought this product. That's the main issue to me.
Okay. So, right, there's like a somebody leaving the bag. Someone who's not serious about what they do sells one of these things. They're heavily coached. Um, they whether intentionally or not, they use misleading terminology to describe the costs or the benefits or both. The client forgets everything they were told. Client the buyer forgets everything they were told. The person is nowhere to be found and then they go talk to somebody else and that person trashes the product.
Yeah. and and even in some cases says probably in this case somebody comes along and says what did you sign? This is actionable. We should go do something about this. So if the it it probably goes better if the person who sold it to them is a serious professional and maintains um contact throughout the life of this contract so that the buyer doesn't all of a sudden have this like you know oh my god what what happened?
Um, so I I agree that there's a a portion of that. I think it's got to be that way. Yeah, because think about think about Kyle Bush, right? He probably spoke to someone else, maybe a CFP or some other guy and or person, and they told him, "What did you do?" They trashed it. And then you go back and say, "Well, this is you told me this is going to do this, and it's not doing this." Well, time, you know, we're going to get there and all the other stuff. And most likely the guy that sold it to him maybe eight years ago, maybe they it's been transferred over a couple times again. I don't know. But at the end of the day, it's it's it's one of those things that constantly needs to be educated. Again, I'm not on the IL side or the VUL side or whole life side. I'm just trying to help under help people understand.
Kevin, what are these most popularly sold as an answer to?
So, if I was going to do anything from a VU IL side of things, it's a strict estate planning thing.
variable or uh variable universal life index universal life or just universal life in general is strictly from an estate planning side. I don't care about the All I care about is the death benefit and and the death I want the death benefit as high as possible. We're gonna dump a bunch of cash in here and I'm gonna have a death benefit inside of a trust that's going to go to my kids or take care or take care of.
So Kyle Bush that's probably the part of this that was most appealing to the to the Bush family is they have all this money.
Yeah. And you know they're concerned with the the I'm assuming he has won enough money in his career that he's not planning to spend it all.
Well, but he said this is sold as a retirement plan for him. That's what the problem is right right now. This sold as a retirement plan because when you get to a set age like 65 or 70, can you imagine the insurance cost? You're taking money out. There's insurance costs. There's fees on top of that. And it's not performing to the to the way that it's supposed to be performing. It's three negatives coming out of the policy that you're not going to be able to to acrue the money that the the original illustration.
So, you think the average buyer of this actually comes away from the sales meeting where they're being closed with the ability to explain things like index crediting caps, participation rates, reset mechanisms. Do you like do you honestly think the average consumer even if they're even if they have an wonderful experience with the salesperson there's they can't walk out of that meeting and tell their their wife or their husband or or anyone like what they actually just agreed to.
I agree with you 100%. But you can say the same thing about private equity and private credit. So just FYI. I mean there's there's advisors out there that are selling that same stuff that have no idea.
Okay, that's fair. I agree. I I agree. Um, last thing on this, just trying to protect myself, man.
Uh, no, I know there's like an I know there's like a there's like a an annuity mafia out there and if you even if you even make the slightest criticism like there, you know, it's it's like you insulted their religion. I told
I don't need my LinkedIn fee to go. We're not doing We're not doing We're not doing that. We're just talking about I'm just kidding with I'm just kidding with you.
We're talking about what Kyle Bush alleged. We're okay. Uh, we're towing the line really nicely. Um, one of the criticisms is that and AD uh CFPs and especially Vanguardian type CFPs um who are very focused on lowcost investing and indexing, they will point out IL policies. Once you see all the once all the costs and the fees come out, it just it ends up looking like a whole life policy, maybe you earn two, three, four, 5%. Um, and it the the returns look nothing like an actual index stock index, lowc cost stock index fund would be the way I would phrase it. Um, now there are other features of it that you're not getting obviously with a lowcost stock index fund. Certainly you're tamping down on the stated volatility, but that comes at a cost and the cost is the aftercost returns are very different. I I mean it's a it's a legit discrepancy between the two things. I think the salesperson would point out yes, by design.
So let's let's just be clear. Yes, you're absolutely right with that, but they're not one and the same because a quote unquote life insurance policy is not an equity. So, we have to make sure that when we're if we're talking about these, we got to compare them to what they're what they are, which is basically a fixed income or a bond component. So, just FYI like on from that perspective.
Yes. But the indexed is where people get confused.
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Right. Yeah.
Okay. Uh, what do you think is going to happen? I mean obviously pack pack life has to fight tooth and nail. They can't they they can't they can't settle this. It's too public.
Well, we have like you have eno coverage for that. So you got to go after the adviser. The adviser is linked. And you notice they didn't say the adviser. They talked about the company because it's just like getting a wreck in in the Walmart parking lot. I don't care about the wreck. I'm going to go attack Walmart. So that's what they're doing.
Right. I'm guessing the person who sold it doesn't have $11 million to pay them back. But Pack Life certainly does.
Exactly. Exactly. Um, okay. All right. Uh, this will be interesting to see how I mean it'll it'll drag on for a while, but we'll we'll follow back up on it. Um, all right. Wipe the sweat from your brow. I'll do the same.
Uh, this week chat GPT banned tailored financial advice.
Yeah. meaning the inter so supposedly this is the second most um prompted topic after uh I think I think I read health is number one followed by financial advice. I don't think it by financial advice they don't mean like um what stock should I buy yeah. I think a lot of people are asking chat GPT very basic things about taxes and bank accounts and and credit cards um But I like it's to me this is not that big of a surprise. They said as of October 29th, Chat GPT stopped providing specific guidance on treatment, legal issues, and money. The bot is now officially an educational tool, not a consultant. So people asking it very specific questions about their own financial situation are not going to get answers. and they're saying health, law, and money are going to be the wedlines for all of these LLMs, especially uh Chat GBT. Um, what are your thoughts?
So, you ever seen like uh Law and Order, SVU? Like I don't watch them much, right? Law and Order, you know, the judge comes out and he says strike that from the record, that admission of guilt, right? And all that crap. Well, how are you telling me that from what you designed this bot to do, which is learn, continue to learn on itself, fix it mistakes, you're going to basically just say, "Okay, no, we're not going to do that anymore." Like, how do you tell an AI chatbot that you've just built to do this not to do it anymore?
I I don't understand how that works. Well, OpenAI doesn't want to have a multiple of 12 times earnings. And the fastest way for that to happen would be to become a regul regulated um bank/financial advisory firm.
Yeah. So there's a lot of compliance cost involved in the business of giving advice and tons of liability and there's no way for a chatbot to know whether or not somebody is relaying their whole picture or leaving things out of embarrassment. Like how can a chatbot actually give financial advice if it can't be confident that it's getting the truth from the person prompting it?
So like just for starters, if it gives the wrong advice and somebody wipes themselves out or does something that they should not have, it's open season for the lawyers would love for this thing to give advice.
Then why wouldn't the plaintiff attorneys would love this? Why not just put it in your terms of agreement that everybody just clicks on and signs and say, "Hey, anything that happens, you know, we're not liable for." I mean, how hard is I don't understand what the difference is? I mean, would they would they not just put that in their terms of agree terms of agreement there?
So, here here's the Yeah. Like, can you just disclaim it and then do it anyway? Yeah.
I I guess they've I guess they've come to the conclusion that that disclaimer won't hold up if somebody gets like substantially financially up. It's It's not going to really help them.
Yeah. Um, so all right, here's the International Business Times. The new rules reported by NEXA are explicit. Quote, "No more naming medications or giving dosages."
Oh, yeah. No lawsuit templates. No investment tips or buy sell suggestions. Um, one might take health into their own hands, feeding chat GBT symptoms out of curiosity. The resulting answers can read like a worst case scenario, swinging wildly from simple dehydration to diagnoses like cancer, right? We So, obviously, we're not going to have the the chatbot dispensing uh dispensing drug uh drug prescriptions and official diagnosis.
Yeah. And I guess from the financial standpoint, it could be just as catastrophic if nobody's respons no human being is responsible. Uh, it's it's funny you say that because I mean I use it a lot and I use it just because it helps me, you know, get organized. But like I said on on a thread a couple days ago, this only works if the person who's using it has the acumen to use it. Like I go in there and like for example, I went in there, I typed in something and it inadvertently said it's going to have the self-employment tax on more than the social security income that was available. Like I said $300,000, it put the tax on the entire 300,000. So if you're using these things and you don't know what you're doing, you're going to assume that it's right, it's the people that are using it that know what they're doing are going to outperform the people that that don't. That's just my opinion. So I just think you have to have a little bit of knowledge.
Yeah. A lot of the a lot of the tools um focused on our industry to help people with their finances.
Yeah. I think the ones that will get the fastest uptake are the ones where it can only train on the data that you allow it access to.
Yes. And it can't connect to the rest of the internet. So it's like in a walled garden. It's sitting as a layer on top of your firm's proprietary data and it's answering questions based on data that can't ever leave. it can't go out and query a larger LLM or or go out into the cloud just aimlessly with the data that you provide it. Um, I don't think based on what I'm told by consultants and people in the industry, I don't think most RAAS or even large broker dealers, I don't think that they have the data lake in place to um have organized data to the point where it's actually useful.
to set an LLM loose on it. No,
I I like I think it's so early. So, I think what most advisers are doing is they're asking generic questions of chat GPT or Claude and that's fine as long as they're not using identifiable information um or client names or addresses or date of births or you know, god forbid. So, as long as that's where it is, I think it's perfectly fine. um policing it's going to become a nightmare as these as these tools become more and more widely used. Yeah. Because you know financial adviserss are human and when they take off the financial advisor hat they're using chat GPT in their regular life to improve upon a recipe or you know calculate how long their commute will be or whatever. Of course they're going to lean on this stuff. So, um I think the faster firms can figure out uh you know what their own policy is and where the lines are drawn, the better. Like now would be a good time.
But that's the but that's the issue right now because if we start regulating and and placing barriers on this, guess who's not doing that? Other nations. Now, you did hear China come out and say, "Hey, if there's going to be people giving medical or financial or any type of legal advice, you have to be registered or reg or registered individual or licensed individual to do so." I'm not saying we got to go that far. But again, we don't even regulate Tik Tok. We have people giving We have people selling financial products literally on Tik Tok. There's nobody's nobody's paying attention.
Yeah. Literally, no one's watching. It's the best. Well, we've also the the stock market's gone up like eight of the last 12 months. So, when if and when that reverses, maybe people will uh people will start paying more attention. For right now, it just feels like anyone can do whatever they want. It's very scary.
Well, I just know that the chatbot is still like cuz I was uh I was testing it and it's still nothing's really changed. So, I don't know what in what context they're going to change anything, but it doesn't seem like anything's changed to me.
Okay. Um, let's go to a CFP Reddit, sir. This is uh Kevin and I's favorite uh subreddit.
No, it's your favorite subreddit. It's yours. No, you're into it. Come on, stop. I know you're into it.
Um, we got a good one this week. Can I read it?
Yeah. All right. Hi, fellow CFPs. I'm a 30-year-old female adviser. Started in the industry right out of college. Eight years experience and CFP designation. Congratulations. I used to get questioned all the time about my age and since getting my CFP, it's happened less and less, but today stung me. I'm taking over a retiring advisor book and our biggest client decided after meeting with me that she loved working with me, but prefers someone older. I wish it didn't hurt me, but it does. I've made the pitch that I'm here for generations, the next 35, 40 years, versus the guy retiring that maybe has 20 years left on this earth. How do other young CFPs deal with that? Just looking for inspiration as I'm feeling discouraged. Um, we'll get into some of the responses, but what what would be your what would be your like let's say she came to you and and and laid this out. What would you say?
Well, um, it's it's tough because it's true. Uh, some people just want a little bit of gray hair. Like, you know, I have my little gray hair here, but some people just want that. Um, I would say to fix this problem, maybe integrate an older advisor into the process so it doesn't seem like you're doing this on your own. I would be afraid. She's only been in a business for eight.
Yeah, but this sounds like it was an older advisor who then said, "Hey, congratulations. Your new adviser is Stephanie." Yeah. And then Stephanie pops on to the Zoom or into a live meeting to introduce herself and it's like uh this this kid looks like my daughter.
Well then I mean you gota you got to do some kind of a split code something like that where you're on the case. Yeah. You gradual handoff. Gradual handoff.
Yeah. Either either that Well, first off, you and I both know this has to be something that has that has to it has to be taken with with kids gloves because people moving from a from me to you or you to you to someone else, it's it's going to it's going to hurt. So you got to take, hey, this person, I trust this person. And by the way, how's this person not been on most calls during this transition leading up to it? maybe a year or two prior to just being
so that was what I would that cuz we cuz we we have dealt with these kind of like um retiring not just retiring adviser but an adviser who is deliberately um handing clients off because they're prioritizing you know a certain type of client or they're slowing down in general and they want to make sure everyone's getting enough attention. Yeah.
So we have dealt with that. It's rarely just like a oneshot here, here you go. Go talk to this person now.
Especially if it's a younger adviser. That younger adviser has got to be on a few in a few meetings.
Yeah. Just like show your face, get your bearings, understand the situation.
Yeah. This sounds like maybe it was done a little bit of a rush. Um, I've also seen this the other way though where a family will get introduced to a younger adviser. Not a young adviser but younger.
Okay. Right. Okay. A younger adviser and they'll say something like, "I'm really excited about this. I've been thinking for a while. Maybe I need a change. Maybe I need to talk to somebody that's got more time for me, more energy, maybe is more plugged in with like newer concepts in the markets."
So that like that's a way that this same situation actually could go. I guess it didn't go that way this time, but like don't discount the value of being on the younger side. A lot of people actually appreciate that and they don't want to work with someone who's going to retire at the same time they do.
Uh, so what so what would you say like what would you tell this person if they came up to you?
Um, I I think I would say next.
Yeah, next. I got you. like keep keep it moving and believe me, time will go by and you will get old. Unfortunately for you, this thing that you think you're missing, you will find it.
Yeah. So, while you're young, focus on people that actually are excited to work with you. And if that means a few missed economic opportunities in the short term, like I would not let that get you discouraged.
They're actually giving you a compliment if they they think you're so they think you're so young.
Hey, it bruises a little bit, man. And it does hurt the ego a little bit.
I don't know. I mean, would it hurt your ego or would you like how how old were you when you first um started giving advice?
2011. So I was probably was that 14 15 years ago. So yeah, what am I right now? So about 30.
So you were 30. Yeah, I was 30. Yeah. Someone's like, "Oh man, you're young." You confused, bruised, or you'd be like, "Hell yeah, I'm young." I don't know.
Yeah, true. I guess look, it's all right. Here's what some of the people said.
Yeah. I like the first comment. Yeah, let people have their biases. The forward thinkers won't care about your age.
Yeah, strong agree. Um, look, I don't know how Sam Alman, how old Sam Alman is. He looks like a teenage boy. He's got a $500 billion company. Um, Zuckerberg went public in his 20s. He's got a trillion dollar company. Like, I just I I think the right clients are like, "This is awesome. I got this young uh rock star that's willing to come in and help me. Like I I understand the the the um the client wanting judgment and wisdom. I get it. But 30 is not 20. Like come on. You you could be 30 and h and and have a really good level of judgment. Um, let me see. I I'll read you one more.
Yeah. Uh, I guess that question goes to I'll tell you why people would care about age.
Yeah. How many economic cycles have you been through in your career? Is that helpful? All these people, they think, all these people that have been through all these cycles, every time a stock goes up, they think it's 1999. Like, is that really is that even helping anymore?
I I think it's helpful because like you've se like in your book you talk about it, man. like you know you talk about Jesse Livermore and all that stuff and I I just like experience matters like it's like having the QB like the Kyle Bush thing it's like having the QB in in in the in the
Always helpful though in a in a financial planning/investing role. Can't that experience weigh you down and have you looking for analoges from the past that just are not relevant? Dude, 15 years ago after the Great Financial Crisis,
Yeah. all the old-timers couldn't wait to tell you how it was the 1970s again. They were wrong. They predicted They predicted hyperinflation as a result of the Fed lowering rates. Took 15 years before we had any.
Yeah. Stock market went straight up. They were wrong. All that experience. I don't know. But you also say you also say that there has nothing like like you said in your book you said there's the stock market everything has happened in the stock market has happened already and will happen in the future. So like so when we when you think like that it's like
which is it but when you think like that you're expecting well hey like like today the data centers and all that stuff that's the gold then who's who's basically uh providing the shovels right we want to invest in the people with the shovels right so like it's the same thing over
so I think the thing that's the same is that it's humanity and it's fear and greed and those are like the two primary drivers of all activity and we're never going to evolve away from that paradigm. But like then everything else changes and uh everything else changes then it stays the same. There you go.
That's right. I'm a walking contradiction of myself. All right. Uh, what does everyone do to inoculate retire retiring clients from the full press?
Yeah. Um, this is also from Reddit, so I'll just I'll read quickly. I'm just curious what the standard operating procedures are being used. I'm always trying to refine my approach. Every time I have a high net worth client getting ready to retire and roll over their 401k, the high pressure sales teams hit them with the fullcourt press. It's the inevitable dance that has to happen. But I would love to hear everyone's process.
Yes. What do you do? What do you do about this?
Oh my god. So, a lot of times I would talk to the client directly and sometimes I'll get on the phone call with them and just have to see what they're see what they're hearing. I want to hear what they're what these people are saying. I literally
So the bank the bank comes and says, "Congratulations, you sold your company uh or whatever the milestone is."
Yeah. Yeah. So I got one for you. So we have a lot of clients that retiring with their with their thrift savings accounts, right, from the government, million-dollar accounts, million million and a half. So the the first thing people are going to do, they're going to come in and say, "Oh, Empower or whatever this whatever the company is, roll it over to their IRA and then invest in something that they have, right? that they're going to have these conversations with them or we can just basically just say, "Okay, let let me be the middleman. Let's have a conversation with them together. I want to hear what they're saying." And
quite frankly, I mean, it it's better that way. It's not always going to go that way. But a lot of times these companies, whether it be like Loheed Martin who had made they used to have empower and all that stuff, they would just get the fullcourt press. Move it over here.
So, what is empower? Like what is what is that fullcourt press? It's like
move move the assets over here. buy an annuity. So they hit 65 and that triggers this domino effect of people who get a notification.
Today is the day you reach out to uh Jim Jones. Mhm. John Jones. Let's not start with Jim Jones. John Jones turned 65 today.
Yeah. So all of a sudden, TIAA, Empower, Fidelity Net Benefits, all these players, like somebody on a computer screen somewhere, your number is up. So then they call you and they, "All right, here's what you need to do now with your money now that you're retired. Have you considered this? Have you considered All right, big deal. If you have a solid relationship with your client, like that you you're going to lose your client over that." Really?
No. No. And and you won't.
No way. Right. No. No. No. You won't. And but I guess I guess the the question is like I've had clients with TSPs. They were they were they were people would go into their offices talking about getting them into an annuity. Moving that entire TSP into an annuity. I was like you already got social security. You already got your your your furs. Like what are we talking about here? You got $10,000 $15,000 a month coming to you and they're wanting to put another annuity on top of that. It's it's mad. A lot of
a lot of the CFPs in the chat are saying that they do what you you said. They sit on the call.
Yeah. And they're saying like when I sit on the call with the client Mhm. the the reps calm down with with the with the they're saying. Uh one guy saying can't recall how many times I've had quote Larry from Dallas, the quote retirement plan specialist jump on from TIA.
Oh yeah. Oh, here's a funny one. quote, "But does your adviser understand you're giving up all of these guarantees?"
Thousand% man, that is the number one I I It's laughable. Uh, all right. But listen, everyone's trying to earn a living. We get it. No disrespect to the the quote retention team.
I I think so here's what I would say like having financial planners who are preparing their clients not just for retirement but from all the people who are about to try to sell them things in retirement.
Yeah. Is a is a is a good idea. Like here's what you could expect from my industry some of which I'm not proud of but here's what's about to happen. And when you tell them in advance and then it happens they go oh you were right. I I live by that standard, man. And and of course in your book, you talk about it as well. Like I live by like this is what this advisor is going to tell you. Like we talked about it last week. This is what this advisor is going to show you on their breakdown of your of your statement. They're going to say, "Oh, this is not good, but I can do this right here." It's all showing the backend, showing showing just the under underbelly of this of this business. Uh, it goes a long way.
All right, Kevin. So today to to conclude, yes, we managed we managed to anger um IL salespeople, but also people who are anti-ILL. I think I think we managed to piss them both off.
There you go. Young advisers, too.
There you go. Um, also people from the retention team at the annuity shops. We we definitely got to them. Who who else who else did we who else did we uh Oh, chat GPT.
Yeah. Well, that's that's gonna they're going to come after you, man. That's going to going to see these messages come across your screen out of nowhere. I'm in the I'm in the algorithm now. And and a uh a founding member of Dipset, Jim Jones.
So, we we got to All right, bring my music back in. We're going to Goodbye, Kevin, and we're going to wrap up here. Um, Kevin, this is so much fun. And I want to tell people where they can uh follow your stuff. I know you're active on LinkedIn and uh x.com.
Yes. Also, YouTube nicap MLB to CFP on all social media channels and also find us on our Substack. What now? Follow us, subscribe, support. Love you guys.
All right. If you want more Kevin, you know where to get it. Uh, I know we definitely want more Kevin. So, he will be back here on Talking Wealth. Guys, make sure to subscribe to uh the channel and uh we'll talk to you soon.
Appreciate you.