Red Dot Forum Camera Talk: The Leica 50mm Summilux-M Lens Episode

[Music] [Music]

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Red Dot Forum Camera Talk. As always, I am David Farus. I'm joined by Josh Lair. He, and we've got Jose Rivera in the little box over there producing the show for us.

So, we have a, I would say, a highly anticipated episode today. Yes, that is, uh, weeks and months in the making. Months in the making. Months in the making. Yes. So, we did, um, a very popular, I think, uh, episode on the 35 millimeter Summilux last year. Um, you can, oh, two years ago. Two years ago. Yeah. Was it really? Well, it's 2024, so yes. Time flies. I know. Uh, yeah, so we did that, let's say, about a year ago, even though it was technically, yeah, anyway, you get it. Um, and we went through every single 35 millimeter Summilux, um, from the very start all the way to the current versions. So, of course, naturally, the response to that was great. When are you going to do the 50 Summilux? Yes. Like, "Wait, give us some time, we'll do it." And if you're watching, we are now going to do it. After much planning and lens borrowing and buying, fitting, since the 50 Summilux received a new version less than a year ago, perfect time for an anthology episode covering the entire range. Exactly.

So, this episode is again dedicated to 50 Summilux M lenses, and that's what we're going to be talking about. So, we won't really be talking about Summicron or Noctiluxes or SL lenses, maybe anecdotally, but in terms of data and fun stories and anecdotes, this will be all about 50 Summilux M lenses. And as you can see, we have quite the selection that we are going to show you. I would even say an assemblage. You may say that. Yes. We have a lot. We have a lot of, of very, uh, very special pieces here as well. Yes. And, and as a lot of people in the chat are saying, 50 is M. In my opinion, there is no M without 50, and there is no 50 without M. It is the quintessential focal length for everyday people, travel. And the benefit of the slightly longer 50 versus 35 is a little bit more bokeh, a little more compression, a little more pleasant rendering for for people and other similar subjects. I mean, it's a lot of people consider the 50 millimeter to be the natural focal length, you know, basically a 1x magnification. So, what you perceive with your eyes is what the 50 sees. And it's the classic, like, focal length, uh, even before the M, even in the screw mount, 50 was, was, or 5 centimeter was the original focal length. Uh, it's what Cartier-Bresson used, you know, this is, you can't say Leica without 50 millimeter. Exactly.

And when it comes to Leica lenses, Summilux is an emotional name as much as it is a technical one. Because, because Lux, Summilux means, well, it used to mean just f1.4. Now it's a little more fluid. It means anything between f1.4 and f2. So, the Q cameras have Summilux, even though it's a 1.7. But right, traditionally, especially with an M, if it's a Summilux, it is a maximum aperture of f1.4. Yes, indeed. What's fascinating about the 50 is, on one hand, over the last 60, 70 years, we've only seen five versions. On the other hand, I don't know if two hours tonight is going to be enough to talk about F versions. Well, well, and surprisingly, and we'll go through the whole anthology here, but what, what's even possibly more surprising is how little the, the 50 Lux evolved through those versions relative to say, the 35 Summilux, which changed dramatically from version to version. Yes. And maybe it was, "Don't fix what isn't broken," or, "We don't know how to fix what is broken." Well, I think it's a testament to the, how good the 50 Summilux was for so long that it went a very long time without being changed. Even though it went through a few design changes, the actual real, um, optics didn't change for a very long time. So, it really felt like a good time to do a 50 Lux episode, given that we just got a new one, which is a big deal. It is a new 50 Summilux, because again, there's only been five versions. Now, five previous, four, and then version five came out last year, and that's a big deal in, in our world.

So, what we're going to do is we're going to go through the history of the 50 Summilux from the first one all the way to the current one. We'll talk about how the lens performs. Um, I'll show some testing. We'll do some live shooting. That's why we got some crazy special editions a little bit later on. I got to shout out all the people that helped because it really took a village to get this episode put together, in terms of borrowing some mind-blowing pieces, some pieces I have never seen or haven't seen in years. Um, all to see them all gather together on this table is inspiring, to say the least. It's impressive. Um, so, we will take a step, or a, a step back to 1958, 1959. That is when we see the first version of the 50 Summilux. In fact, the first Summilux. Yes. It's the first time that Leica used the term Summilux. So, the lens was designed in the late 50s and then officially launched in 1959. If you look in the databases, you'll find the earliest production years were 1958. So, they were obviously making them up until launch. And again, the first Summilux. This is a big deal because again, Summilux is now a legendary name. Um, the Summilux version one actually borrows the majority of its design from a lens that came prior to it that was originally screw mount and then finished in M mount called the Sumitar. Now, if you're familiar with 50 Sumitar, you may say, "Well, those are modern lenses that are f2.5, f2.4." This predates that by a lot. The original Sumitar is a 50 millimeter f1.5. We can do a closeup, I can show that lens here. It's got a super cool hood on it. We're not going to get into the 50 Sumitar today because it's not about the Sumitar, but this is where the M, M lens design started. Now, there's lenses that are even older than this that this is based on, and we can trace things back all the way to 1849 if we want, but my point being is the 50 Summilux M owes its heritage to the 50 Sumitar M, um, which is a super cool lens. And these have become quite difficult to find, especially in nice shape. This one is beautiful, um, and it has a super awesome hood on it. So, anyway, uh, but okay, that's cool. We're here for Summilux, right? I think so.

50 Summilux version one. I'm going to take the hood off for a second here so you can see it here. We'll do the closeup. And let's bring up actually the little, there we go. There we go. There's our slide. 1959 to 1961. A very short production run. The shortest production run of pretty much any M lens that I can think of, with a couple of exceptions. But really, only '59 through '61 this lens was manufactured. Now, you'll notice that this lens is in silver chrome over brass. These lenses were offered in black paint in an extremely limited production. Back in those days, black paint was not standard production. It had to be special ordered. And if you start to look through auction sales and other historical images, it's a mess. There are some lenses where the whole lens is black paint, where part of the lens is black paint, where the mount is black paint. I mean, it is all over the place when it comes to the black paint, whereas the silver chrome was pretty much one. Soon you'll see in a second, two versions or variations. Um, again, brass barrel. It's got a little bit of heft to it. It's not crazy. It's 300, and I weighed it. Hold on, where'd it go? 325 grams. So, it's not, uh, it's not bad compared to the, you know, very modern feeling weight. Weight. And it's got this beautiful knurled focus ring. It has click stops for whole aperture stops. So, not, there's no half stops. So, you could pretty easily sort of stop it in between. Filter size is E43, so 43 millimeter. And it's got the sort of nice M finger grip, um, here on the back. So, a beautiful lens. And if you're familiar with a lot of the modern special edition 50 Summiluxes that we've seen, and that we'll cover, this will look familiar because they pay homage to this design. Um, now, when it comes to filtering this lens, it does take a 42 millimeter filter. Um, it can be a little finicky with modern filters. You really want to use one of the older ones. This is an example where it's, um, of a period-correct E43 Leica filter, which is quite thin. Um, these are really hard to find now. So, if you can get your hands on one of these, please do, because that's really what pairs properly with, um, the older Summiluxes. So, you can use a more modern, um, 43 filter, but you can see it's very difficult to thread. It doesn't thread on that well. Um, so I do encourage you, if you're going to get one of these and want to filter it, to find a period-correct filter. Um, it did introduce the, uh, lanthanum glass, which is a rare earth element designed to improve lens flare or reduce lens flare. That, combined with newer coatings compared to the Sumitar that came before it, are really what set this lens apart. Otherwise, the optical design was essentially the same as the 1.5 Sumitar. Um, really a beautiful lens to behold. And they become quite valuable, even for a lens that is quote unquote relatively pedestrian. Meaning they made 15,000 of these or so in those three years, because of course, over such a long period of time, a lot of these lenses have just become a mess. Haze, dust, fungus. The coatings, as a lot of you know, watching the show, on these older lenses are very soft. So, if you try to clean it, even just like moving it around, if anything comes in contact with the front or rear element, they get all kinds of cleaning marks, and they're just gross. So, to find one of these in really nice shape is something special. And this, this, this one happens to be particularly beautiful. This is from 1958 or '59, an early copy. '59. Um, now, there is one variation within the version one silver chrome. One key variation. I'm going to show you, show you it right here. Now, you probably can't tell by looking, but the one on the right here is much, much, much more desirable and much rarer. And the reason is, this is called a reverse scallop. So, if you look at the standard version, there are little peaks and valleys here on the knurling. It's very difficult to show on camera, but essentially, the valleys, the lower section, has this little ridges, and the peaks, the higher sections, are flat. That's the traditional knurling that we see on every lens, even modern ones. Well, for a little bit in the very early days of this lens, Leica made what's called the reverse scallop, meaning the raised portion of the ring is ridged, and the lower portion is smooth. Very difficult to identify if you don't know what you're looking for, but it's a fascinating little offshoot of vintage 50 Summiluxes. And the reverse scallops are way rarer. There's no official production numbers that I could find, but we're talking probably hundreds, maybe a thousand. Um, even rarer in black paint, if you can find it. So, if you ever hear somebody talking about a reverse scallop, that's what they're referring to. They're referring to essentially the knurling on the focus ring is inverted, and so the, uh, raised sections have the ridges on it. So, a really fascinating design choice. I think it looks awesome. I love the way it catches the light, too. Um, reminds me also of a watch bracelet, the way it's doing that. Um, the lens hood that both of these lenses accepted was the X, letters, right? The X O IIM. And this is kind of a cool-looking but very clunky lens shade. Pop it on like that. And this didn't last very long because it did block the viewfinder of an M3, which was the current camera at the time, and it had no ventilation. So, this was replaced rather quickly with a later hood that I'll show you guys, um, which had ventilation, so it made it easier to see through while you were doing it. Now, you'll notice I don't have one in black paint to show you, and that's a testament to just how rare black paint version ones are. If anyone watching this show has one and is willing to loan it to me for a future episode that I could show, please reach out because I asked a lot of people, and short of spending significant money to buy one for the show, which would have been ridiculous, I could not get my hands on one. Um, they are gorgeous, especially with the, um, black, when the, when the lens barrel is painted black and brass. H, stunning. Anyway, um, so the version one, 1959 to 1961. Any comments, David? I'm, I know for a fact that the fact that you don't have a black paint one here is killing you on the inside. Like, because I tried so hard. We, Josh prides himself on being able to get every single lens. Killing me. So, the fact that one is missing is, I'm disappointed. I know. In fact, I think we just end it here. All right, let's, here, let's go get some ears. Um, so, yes, if you have a black paint one that you're willing to loan me, um, for a future show that I can just show as a reference. I think what's really interesting here is the fact that the lens was only made for two years, which is unprecedented in Leica. Yeah. Um, and I, I guess it's, you know, it was just basically like they figured out they needed to do something a little better, yeah, or different. What's funny is somebody just, a quick comment saying we should use gloves. What's, what's cool about most of these lenses? These are lenses that are being used. Yeah. These are lens, most of these belong to customers and who, who use them regularly, which is incredible. I have a few pieces here that are glove-worthy for sure, um, but the best part about these lenses is they are being used. And as you see from, as you will see from our live shooting and our test images, they're beautiful. I mean, they really shouldn't be sitting in a cabinet. Um, maybe if there's some rare black paint iteration, fine, but these standard lenses absolutely need to be used because that's what they're all made for. And they are just a blast, um, to play around with and make very distinct images. Um, so, okay, version, let's move on. One is, uh, complete in the bag. Now, version two. Okay, let's go. Just to make a comment real quick. Somebody said, "Can you mention the glow of the lens wide open?" We are going to do some live testing. Yeah, you'll see that. Yeah, I mean, all these older ones have a glow to it for sure. Uh, the version one does have a distinct glow. It's not dramatically different as some of the forms might make you believe, but you'll see that when we, um, show testing, because as usual, I've done comprehensive testing of every single version. Super careful, super meticulous. So, Josh has, just to kind of preface that, so we've got test images here in the computer, and then we also have our live shooting setup with Oscar the bear and some, some out-of-focus elements. We have a lot of things to, uh, to talk about. Bear with us as we roll through the history. Yeah, give the high points, and then we'll get to the fun stuff later. All right, let's get us a version two. Now, let's do a closeup here. Here's a version two. And you, you may be saying, "Well, Josh, it looks exactly the same." Well, that's because it does look exactly the same. If I put a version one next to a version two, they're almost identical. There is a little 13 here, which is indicative, indicative of the actual focal length. This is basically a fudge factor. So, this means this lens is actually 51.3 millimeters. I don't know if you guys can see that. So, if you ever wonder what that number is, sometimes it's black, sometimes it's red. I guess it depends on the mood of the lens builder that day. But otherwise, aesthetically, these lenses are identical. And even though this is a version two, and it was a new optical design and came out in '61, Leica didn't acknowledge the fact that there was a change until about '65 or '66. So, for four or five years, this lens went being produced looking pretty much exactly the same, except with different performance and different rendering and different optics. That's crazy. So, I wonder how that would go over today. Uh, would that go over well? I can't imagine that would go over very well. Um, this is a very early, um, version two from 1961. And this lens is in very, um, how do I put this nicely? Rough shape. Not in a bad way. It's been, it's, it's had a rough life. We like to say it's well-loved. Well-loved. Exactly. Um, so, version two is again, same optical, excuse me, same barrel design, renewed optical design, same number of elements, just they just change things around, um, in terms of the design. And it is higher performance, although it does have more distortion, which you will see. And that's, those are kind of the two big takeaways. Um, same E43 filter size, the same everything. Now, the most fascinating period for this lens, the fact despite the fact that version two was produced from '61 to '95, so 34 years of continuous production, the most interesting period of version two production, in my opinion, was the first six or seven years. And the reason is because Leica was kind of going through this change over in the lens design about what they were going to kind of make the final iteration look like, realizing that it shouldn't really look exactly the same as the predecessor. So, we see for the first four or five years, they all were in silver chrome. Here's another version two, just to give you guys a reference. This is from 1966. So, again, five years newer. You can see the font is a little bit different on the, um, on the front ring around the lens. It's a little bit thicker. Heavier weight. Heavier weight. Exactly. So, that's just a subtle difference, just things that I find interesting. Um, this is a 188 serial number. This is a 219. They both have the same nice sheen to the, the coating on the front, which I think is super cool. Um, so, again, this is another version two, just in better shape. One of the interesting things is there was a change over in the 60s. I'm starting at serial number, I wrote this down so I wouldn't forget, um, 20281001. So, 20281001. So, starting with that serial number, 20281, the aperture went from having only full stops to half stops. Meaning, instead of this early copy where you have only full stops like this, so you can go 1, 1.4, 2, 2.8, there's no half, there's no clicks for half stops. After 20281, which this lens is newer than, you got half stops in between the apertures. So, you see I have click stops between the apertures. So, if you value that, and you're looking for a version two, make sure you get one after that serial number. If you don't want that, get a version one or an older version two. Just a little bit of random, um, trivia for you there. Yeah, and just like modern Lox lenses, they have the half stop. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. That was a change, um, they made. Um, they took the same hood for a little while until they updated it, which I'll show you in a second. But as I mentioned, that period from '61 to about '69 was the most fascinating time because we saw a lot of weird things. I'm going to give you an example. What do you got? These three lenses. See if I can get all three kind of like on display. Whoops. Oh, where'd it go? Where's my closeup? Other one, Jose? Why is it black? Oh, there we go. Sorry, minor technical difficulties. Um, okay, let's see here. We can do this. Give me a second here. I'm playing around. Okay, here we go. Rolling. Okay, these three lenses. I got it. Do you are you sure? No. Uh, okay, I got it. These are all version twos made between 19, 1961 and 1969, but these three are all different. Now, the optics are the same, but the actual barrels are different. So, initially, Leica was making these sort of hybrid lenses. We call them transitional lenses, where components, but not the entire lens, were black paint. Here we have a brass scale here at the bottom, which is in black paint. You can see it's shiny. We have a black chrome aluminum anodized barrel with the knurled, um, focusing ring. So, this is the knurling black paint. Then we saw another iteration, which is all aluminum, so no black paint, just black anodized aluminum with the knurling. And then finally, they settled on what was the standard production for most of the production of the lens, so '68, '69 all the way until '94, '95, which is this black anodized aluminum barrel with the ridges. So, they got rid of the mill. Here we go. The mill. Here they got rid of that. They got rid of the knurling on the focus ring, and they just went with this design. Um, these versions with the knurling, whether it has black paint or not, are very rare and quite desirable. And, um, you know, I don't see them very often. I was doing a little research to try to find more about this one, and I could only ever find one similar copy that had been sold anywhere over the course of a very long time. So, definitely a unique design. It kind of has echoes of the 125 Noctilux, like a baby Noctilux, kind of. Whether it's, you know, partial black paint like this, which is obviously super rare, or even all black anodized like this, still extremely rare, um, to see with the knurling on it, um, which is very cool. Those are cool. Yeah. And then, like I mentioned, let me put these up here. Actually, here we go. Then we saw the ridges, and this was in production for the rest of the life of the lens. Many, many, many years. Many, many, many years. And there wasn't a ton of special editions, but there were a few. Some of them are quite rare. I did, I was able to get my hands on a couple of them, which I'm going to show you shortly. But first, I want to mention the lens hood that this lens came with, which looks like this. So, the change over they made went from the XI O, or in this case, 12521G, they were weird back then with product codes, to the 12586 hood, like this. It is a vented hood, clip-on, much easier to use, it's aluminum, and it's, um, much easier to see through. So, it doesn't have nearly as much viewfinder blockage on the rangefinder cameras as the older solid hood does. So, a little bit of trivia. We can pop it on here so you can see what it looks like. There we go. Look at that. Looks sweet. Now, personally, I would probably never use this hood if I had it, although these lenses do flare, so it would depend on the lighting conditions you were in. I did, Do you want to put that back on here? Care me, please. Yep. I did use the hoods for my testing, just to ensure that every lens got a fair shot because, you know, you don't want to artificially introduce flare and reduce contrast, um, if you don't have to. You're having a hard time there. I get it. Okay. That's a very expensive lens. So, he's really strong. Yay. Did you get it? No. Yes. Got it. I want to be very, very gentle. I'm being very, very gentle. Why I picked it up. Okay. Um, okay, so within the version two, we saw a couple of special editions, and I have, again, I mentioned I have a couple of them here. In this case, it is time for the gloves. Oh, the gloves. The gloves come on. Wait, they don't go off. They, they go on. They go on. Okay. All right, let's do it. Check this out. I, I brought two, and they're two Leica that I, that I just adore. So, by the way, I just have to point out, yes, just hold your hands out because it's very cool. Oh, then it's, oh, they can't, they don't have the closeup. Um, yeah, get the closeup because this is cool. Yeah, these are like, uh, that's very cool. You like a gloves to watch? We'll talk about that. We'll talk about that. Okay. What, what's that? Let's take a look. If you like gold, this lens is for you. 1979. To celebrate what would have been Oscar Barnack's 100th birthday, he was born in 1879. Leica came out with a 24-karat gold-plated M42 and a matching 50 Summilux version 2. So, you can see it's pretty much the same barrel design. It is the same barrel design as a standard version two. I have them together here, except the, um, numbering and lettering on the lens is all in gold paint. I don't know if it's real gold paint, but definitely the focus ring, the, um, front, what they call the accessory carrier where the hood clips on, and then, of course, the mount. Wow. All in 24-karat plated. This thing is so cool. That is absolutely insane. Um, I, I just adore this thing. I, I don't know. I, I just think, like, if you want to be a little blingy and like have some fun, look all. And the lettering around the front is also gold. Look at that. That's so cool. I just get giddy with excitement when I see this thing. Um, it didn't, it did not come with the gold hood, unfortunately. It's a standard 12586 hood. I know, heartbreaking. But nonetheless, this thing is absolutely gorgeous. And I bought this actually brand new. I, um, it was sealed in a little plastic bag. I was the first person to open it up, which was cool. But we'll talk about that later. Um, and the second special edition of the version 2 is one that I find absolutely fascinating and only learned about recently. So, if we're going to backtrack for a second, version one and version two, early, early copies came in silver chrome brass barrel. Then they went through that transitional period where we saw some partial brass, partial aluminum, but they were all in black. And then for those '69 to '94, all the lenses were in black, aside from a few special editions that were, they had a platinum one, and then they had the gold one. But overwhelmingly, they were black. And now, in a lot of lenses, especially now, they have a black and a silver version. But Leica never made a production version of the majority of the version two from '69 to '94 in silver chrome. But there is one special edition example, which I only learned about near the end of last year, which I am now absolutely in love with. It's called The Traveler Edition. So, what Leica did was they introduced an M6 that came with a 50 Summilux version 2 called The Traveler set. It came with, like, this really cool briefcase. The camera basically just had different leather, and the rewind lever, not the knob, but the lever, was black over a silver M6. That's how you can tell an M6 Traveler. It's the only difference, like, from the leather. But what was special was the lens. If we do a closeup, this is a silver chrome brass lens that's designed to look like the standard version two, like so, except in silver chrome. If Leica were going to make a production version of the version 2 in silver chrome, this is what it would look like. Let's say this lens was, if they were making this lens today and said, "Ah, let's make it in black and silver." Well, they'd make the Traveler. Except this wasn't a production version. This was a special edition. It's difficult to find out how many were made. The consensus is between three and 500, so it's quite rare. Um, and I think this is my favorite special edition version two because it looks like it's sort of hybrid in between the early version twos and version ones in the silver chrome brass with the sort of ridges on the barrel and the overall design of the main production version two, which was in black anodized aluminum. So, it is, um, it is brass. It's got a nice heft to it. Again, comes with the 12586 hood. Looks like this. I'll pop the hood on here. We go. This thing is so cool. So, what's cool about this is, well, the last thing I'll mention is this was made in 1994, which means this was the very, very, very, very tail end of version two production. So, not only is it unique in the fact that it's silver chrome, it's also the most modern feeling version two. And, you know, having tested all these lenses, including this one, just the feel of the aperture and the focus, and of course, you're more likely to get one in good shape if you can find one because there's so much newer, relatively speaking. But of course, conversely, with only a couple of hundred out there, they are quite difficult to find. And for years, these were slept on from a price perspective. They were not much more than the regular version, but now they are significantly, um, for good reason because it really is something special. Now, are we seeing those lenses by themselves or only with the, mostly by themselves? Yeah, the sets got separated because again, the camera wasn't really that special, and they were individually boxed. So, there was really very little reason to keep them together over the course of, let's say, 30 years of ownership. You say, "Ah, I don't need the camera anymore, I'll sell it," or, or whatever. Um, so, yeah, the 50 Summilux Traveler, awesome, awesome version two lens. Um, that's really cool. So, that covers the first two versions. We've seen silver chrome, black, gold, um, aluminum, you know, all with an E43 filter thread, all with a one-meter minimum focus distance. So, those are the commonalities between 1959 to 1994. And, and the same optical design during that per, well, between 60, between '61 and, and '94, same optical design. '59 and '61 was version one, that's its own design, although we're not talking dramatic depart, I should take these off, dramatic departures. Um, now the gloves are coming. That's right. Between version one and version two. But, um, so we saw for, from '61 to '94, the same optics. Now, you'll see some sample variation, of course. Anything that's been around for that long in terms of optics, it's going to depend on how it was stored and the condition it's in. So, it's not like every version two you could buy today is going to render exactly the same. Sure, but they're pretty darn close. Even going from a '60s era version two to a '90s era version two. I mean, it would be interesting. It would be interesting to to find out if Leica was actually able to source the exact same glass all those years, or they subbed some things in, or if they use exactly the same coatings, as coating technology improved, or if that changed over time as well. My guess is things were changed. You know, back then, Leica didn't have the sort of production, um, precision or even the buying power that they have today to to get large batches of stuff from suppliers. So, I would assume there is, if you were to do a chemical composition analysis of a bunch of these lenses, there would be differences. From my testing, you know, I tested four or five different version twos against each other. The differences are so nominal that it would, you would have to be a very certain kind of particular person. It probably makes a lot. Right. I, I think to summarize, it would make a lot more difference with sample variation from lens to lens, not based on production year because of possible material changes or possible coating differences, but more, you know, some elements being hazed or deseeded or surface cleaning marks. That's going to make far bigger difference in terms of image quality, right, than small variations in manufacturing along the way. Correct. Yeah, that is absolutely true. And that's something I learned when I do my testing, which is some of these lenses, and I, and I actually purposely tested the one that's kind of in rough shape so you can see what happens when you use a lens that isn't necessarily full spec, where it is, has, does have some flaws from age and from storage. It's, it's just a, um, a glow filter, really. Oh, is that what it is? Yeah. So, if you're, if you're looking for that magical Leica glow, find like the most hazed over, the most clean, you know, scuffed up. Yeah. And, and it'll be a glow factory. Exactly. Yeah. Um, so, yeah, what does that now? What does that take us to? Well, that takes us to version three, which you're going to cover. Um, but what we'll see is that, you know, the first 10 or 15 years of production of this Summilux, there's a lot of weird variations and lack of information. But now we're getting into the modern era, and I'm going to kick it over to David. Before Bill, I, I want to just touch on that because that is really fascinating. Um, in today's day and age, with with Leica making, you know, these kind of lenses, there's not a lot. Like, they've got it really dialed in from the get-go in terms of the industrial design and and the production. And that's a battery. It was a battery. Don't worry about it. Um, and back then, it just wasn't. There was so much. It's like, like the wild west. Cameras changed, lenses changed, they just use different materials. Why not? Different knurling. Yeah. Uh, different aperture, you know, click stops. Drives me crazy. It's just everything changes. Trying to chase, trying to chase down the differences. And also, you have to keep in mind, so much more consistent now. Some lenses were retrofitted with with earlier components. So, you could find, you know, '80s era version twos with '60s era lens heads that have the knurled focus. I mean, it's really, it's really bananas. Um, and but that makes it fun because if you're trying to chase down a particular vintage, a particular style, you know, it can be challenging, but also very rewarding when you finally find that perfect lens. Yeah. Um, so now I'm going to kick it over to David, who's going to talk about version three, which I will show, and he will discuss. There it is. Josh, what is the product code for version two? Uh, it depends on who you ask because they didn't change the product codes from version one to version two. So, there's one, 11114 for black, 11113, excuse me, for silver. Yes. Okay. Actually, I wrote this down because it gets so confusing. Um, right, 11113 is black paint originally, and then black anodized. And then they consolidated all the product codes to 11114 when they went all black in '68, '69. So, it's not like today where there's clear delineations between silver and black and whatever. Really, not until the version three did we actually get consistent, clean product code, um, naming schemes, as we'll talk about in a second. Uh, okay, so you do have actually all four finishes here. I do. Of course, who you think you're talking to? I know, I know. I'm just checking it out before I mention it. Okay. All right, so you do, David. Jose, then closeup here. We're doing a switchy-roo. There. Hey, wait. Those are in my hands. Freaking out. I'm freaking out. All right, so this is the 50 millimeter Summilux 1.4 version three. Slide up. Yeah, let's get the slide up. Yeah. There we go. There we go. All right, so now this was introduced very much in the, the modern or even the like pre-modern era, let's call it. So, '95 to 2005. Again, a relatively short run for a lens, 10 years. It is the same optical design as the version two. Um, of course, we're talking about the version two post-transition period, right? So, the actual version two, um, officially, which means it's going to perform the same. But they did make a change, a a significant change, or to the optics, which is, instead of that one-meter minimum focus distance, we've now gone to a 0.7 meter, um, meter minimum focus distance. Not millimeters, 0.7 meter. Point Jesus. 0.7 meter. The first 50 Lux that doesn't have a one-meter minimum focus that has a 0.7 meter. Exactly. You have to figure, David, he did just get back from like 27 flights coming from Norway yesterday. Last night. Yes. I'm of a little slack, anyway. Um, it's also where we see the now. So, that was standard going to the next version, which we'll get to. But also, it was an E46 millimeter filter size versus the E43 that we've had all the way from the original 1959 all the way through 1995. So, now this is a, again, kind of a more modern that we're used to filter size of E46. We also get the more recognizable retractable lens shade, except this one is the first version of that retractable lens shade. So, it's just a simple push-pull. There is no lock mechanism on it. There's no twist. It just slides out and slides back. And it had, does have a handy little registration dot, both in the extended position and in the retracted position, because you need that. Yes. Um, it is a, also recognizable as a more modern barrel design. So, this is again, taking us more into that modern era of Leica lenses. Interestingly, though, and we can kind of come back, uh, here to the, uh, closeup, or, or that's fine. Yeah, that's good. Good. Yeah, that's fine. So, what's really interesting about this is that it's, it's in the modern era, but it's still a vintage design, right? So, this is still a 1960s lens design being offered in the mid-1990s. Yeah. A little unusual. Uh, what I would say is this, yeah, the version three is the most fun from a practical standpoint. Point because it's the same optics from 1961, basically, right? The design of the lens did not change. Mhm. Except it's a very usable, easy to find filter size, a E46. It doesn't require some special filter thread, 0.75 millimeter pitch. It's a retractable lens shade instead of some big giant clip-on shade. Super nice. It's got the 0.7 meter close focus, which is so convenient. And very much importantly, which you haven't mentioned yet, which I'll mention, it's the first version of the 50 Summilux that can be six-bit coded. Oh, okay. So, if you have a digital M, it can be six-coded, which means it just recognizes on the camera automatically, which is really, really convenient. All the previous ones, you would have to manually select it. Exactly. So, 50 Summilux version 3, even though they're extremely hard to find these days, is a lens that I personally cherish. I'm, I shouldn't say that, but I am looking for one because I want one because, yeah, it's fun. It's, it's a feel of a vintage lens in the way it renders with the handling of a modern lens. So, it was almost like the best of both worlds. Yeah. And, uh, another interesting little, little tidbit. So, I, I touched on it, just not touching, but, uh, mentioned it. The finishes were a little bit unique as well. So, this was offered initially in, in the production run, in the black anodized here over aluminum, as well as a titanium look. It's not, close up there. You go. It's not actual titanium. It is a titanium finish. Uh, I think we need to make that distinction because, correct. There's only been a few actual titanium lenses. This is not that. This is not a special edition. This is a serialized regular production run, uh, that was offered alongside the black. Because initially, silver was not offered. Silver was only a, uh, brought on later as a silver, um, over brass. Well, this is also over brass. Okay. That's right. Titan, this, this is, so you had black, so you had these aluminum, black, aluminum, black anodized aluminum, and then this is, um, painted brass. So, this is titanium, sort of like a titanium paint, if you will, over the brass barrel. What's interesting is the black version three of all the 50 Summilux versions ever made is the lightest at 275 grams on my scale. So, I actually weighed all, I didn't just trust this spec, I weighed all these lenses. And if you want the lightest 50 Summilux from all the versions, get a version three in black at 275 grams. It is crazy light. This one in titanium is 370 grams, so it's almost 100 grams heavier than it should be. The same weight as silver, right? It is. Yes. Okay, we'll show that next. Yep. Let's talk about the silver. So, the next, we have a finish that we all know and love, silver over brass, silver chrome. This one has a filter on it, but, uh, again, easy to, easy to put a filter because it's a E46. Exactly. Look at that. That is gorgeous. Really nice. Yeah. This is, um, that actually has the original, uh, dot on it too. Yeah, it's a slightly faded. Yeah, yeah. If you look at that, it's cool. The, um, the Traveler, and the interesting, interesting, these lenses are only a couple years apart, except this is a version two, this is a version three. But I would love to own both of these. I'm just saying. Those are cool. Although no retractable lens shade on the, yeah, this is much more convenient. Um, and then the final iteration of the, um, version three that we, at least that we, I don't think I have any other black paint, is this beauty, which is also over brass. I have two of these actually. I have this one, which is a user, and then I have another one I'll show you just to give you, that's okay. So, this is, get a, get a, this is the Summilux M version three in black paint. They made 2,000 of these to go with the Leica M6 TTL Millennium and LSA black paint cameras, and another 75 to commemorate a bridge connecting Denmark to Sweden or something. I, I tried to learn how to pronounce the word, the name of the bridge. No, no, don't even try. Um, if there's anyone from one of those countries, I was just in Denmark, yes, two days ago. So, no, you cannot pronounce it. This is, AB gorgeous, because it is black paint over brass. I mean, okay, wow. If I could have any version three, it would be this one. Like, I love all the version threes, but this one would be mine. I, I'm going to make it even better though. If I was going to have it, I would put it on here. Here we go. Look at this. Oh my gosh. This is a black paint original black paint M4 with the black paint 50 Summilux version 3. Absolutely gorgeous. H, wow. I just love the way this thing looks. Thank you, Javier, for letting me borrow this from you. Um, these are owned by the same person, and he uses this combination. That is amazing. Um, so, like, yeah, I mean, I don't know. This is, I love black paint. I mean, who doesn't, I guess these days it's kind of a bit of a, like, a cliché, but, um, this is a lens that's used. It's actually in pretty nice shape. Um, but just to give you a reference, what a collectible grade one looks like. Yeah, I'll get that. Thank you very much. Yep. Standby. This one actually does require the gloves. You can tell it's special because it's in the Leica lens container. Um, here we go. Prepare for. That's right. If you want to see what one looks like that could be almost new. Here we go. So, this is an example of a copy that is in basically mint condition. And the reason you know it's collectible is it's not six-bit coded. Where that one that I just showed was six-bit coded because that's a user lens that's been CLA'd. Um, here you can see, so because the, uh, this is a user lens, meaning not, not in a bad way, but in a good way. Six-bit coding makes it so much easier to use day-to-day. David. Mhm. Um, this lens being sort of in a part of a collection, we kept it original, meaning the lens mount is original, and it has not been converted to six-bit. Um, but still absolutely gorgeous, um, to see this thing. It's like, got a glimmer to it that it's just hard to beat. Um, super nice. Very cool. So, those are, wow. There was a, um, platinum edition of the version 3. It's an extremely rare. It came with the 175th anniversary M6 Platinum set. They only made 30 with the 50 Summilux in platinum. So, if you have one of those, it's different.

From the version two in Platinum, they made 1,250. They only made 30 version threes in Platinum, and not made from Platinum. It's Platinum painted over brass, like the titanium is not Platinum. Look exactly. I tried to get one for the show and I failed miserably.

"Oh, Josh, so wait, you're missing two lenses off the table?"

"I'm missing a few. There's, there's a lot of special editions. Some, um..."

So now we have covered version three, which is, um, the last of the sort of vintage era spherical lenses. Talk to us about, here we go, we're now going from Proser, yep, to what? To aspheric, right? And something happened here. Um, someone that we, we all know and love, decided to embark on a complete redesign of the 50 Summilux, starting basically from a blank slate, taking a whole new approach to it. And it marked a lot of firsts for Leica.

So this was a lens that was designed by Peter Carba. It, he took him about, thank you, please show it. Took him about 10 years to design this. This was a very important project for him. In fact, he holds multiple patents for this design. This is the 50 Summilux. Oh, actually, let's bring up the, uh, slide, the little slide thing there. We, so this is the 50mm Summilux f/1.4 ASPH, introduced in 2004 and recently, just in 2023, discontinued, uh, replaced by the next version, which we'll go over now.

This was also the very first M lens with a floating lens element, which was a revolutionary design, uh, spearheaded by Peter Carba. And, uh, it is sort of an interesting, an interesting take. Uh, this is, um, extensive use of both aspheric, as well as high refractive optics, as well as glasses with partial, partial anomalous dispersion.

"This is, um, just interrupt for a second. Well, some people say this is an APO lens. It is, and it isn't. It does have some achromatic correction, but it's not full-on achromatic correction, so it kind of straddles the line."

So, in discussions that I've had with Peter, Peter, okay, let me rewind this. Yes, we were talking about lens design. We were talking about the 50 Lux, and he was also relating to me the design of the 75 APO Summicron M, which you, he's going on and on. And he says, "You know, I was thinking about, you know, Dr. Mandler and how he had the 75 Summicron that was based on the 50 Noctilux. And I thought, you know, what could go really well with the 50 Summilux? A 75, uh, Summicron." And I said, "Yeah, but how is it really based on this?" Because he said, "It's the same optical design except for one lens element. Otherwise, they're identical." I said, "But the 75 is an APO lens, and the 50 Summilux is not an APO lens." He says, he says, "Actually, three letters." He's like, "Actually, it is an APO lens, but we, and here's the funny part, but we thought it was silly to put an APO designation on a 50mm, so we didn't do it." I said, "Really?" Fast forward a few years later, they came around and they had the 50 APO Summicron, and now we even have 28 APO's and 35 APO's. So obviously, uh, Peter and Leica changed their tune on that. But what's interesting is a little, little hidden tidbit on the 50 Summilux aspheric is that it's kind of sort of an unmarked secret APO. Yeah. Uh, which, which is pretty, which is pretty cool.

It also had a couple of other innovations. Let's, uh, go through the list here. Um, it kept the 7 millimeter. I keep saying millimeter. 0.7 meters. Okay, you got it. My brain is not functioning. Uh, it kept the E46 filter size. It does have a retractable lens shade, but here we've got that twist lock. So you pull it out, give it a little twist, and, uh, and it won't. Exactly. There we go. Thanks, Josh, for the demo. Um, and, and again, we're using very advanced optics here, advanced coating technology. This, at the time in 2004, was basically cutting-edge optics, optical design for Leica. This brought us into the very modern age of Leica lens design, and we saw a lot of these technologies, the floating element, roll out to other lenses in the lineup, say the 35, uh, the new Noctiluxes. It, it really made a huge difference for Leica going forward post-2004.

So now, this is a lens that's fully in that modern era. Uh, and of course, I think, um, it brought Peter Carba to the forefront of lens design, and a lot of people recognize that that genius because from here, from what he learned on this lens, he brought that forward to the 75 APO, to the 50.95 Noctilux, to the 50 APO Summicron. Those are all iterations off of the design, uh, innovations they made on this lens. So it's a pretty special lens. It's kind of a landmark for Leica.

And let me tell you, that when you, you'll see this during the testing, the difference in performance between the very, very latest version and any version four, meaning from the last pre-aspheric to the aspheric, the difference in performance is staggering, staggering. I mean, night and day, more so than any other version to version transition that I have ever seen on anything. It really is mind-blowing. And we're not talking just about wide-open performance. Any, everywhere, everywhere, as well as much, much, much better performance in the minimum distance range.

"Oh, yeah, especially. And that's something we didn't really mention on the last version, which is it did go from one meter to 0.7 meters. See, I got it right that time."

"Good job. Thanks."

"Um, but those lenses weren't designed. It was based on that 1960s design. It wasn't meant to go that close in terms of focusing. So there was significant optical compromise. Things get weird. Things get really weird. Get weird."

Which I think was a direct reason why, uh, Peter designed this with that floating lens element, which corrected it all the way from infinity to the closest focus, maximizing performance over the whole range. And, and that's something that we take for granted now, but this was revolutionary for Leica design at the time.

So now, the fun part, because the 50 Summilux aspheric came in more variations and special editions than you can imagine. And I am now going to show you a whole bunch of them. All of them. First, we'll talk about the production variants, not special editions. And I'm going to start with this one here, which, which is, thank you, in silver chrome. Same design as the lens in black, except the lens is made from brass. This is the heaviest 50 Summilux of every single version and every single special edition. My scales put this bad boy at 465 grams. It is half a kilogram. Right? Yeah, half a kilogram. Yeah. So cool. There is a heft to this lens that is just, I can't even describe it. And the brass barrel means the focusing has a very distinct feel that you do not get with any other lens material. Um, I think this is the one to have, personally, because especially if you're using it on an SL2 or an S2S, like SL camera, balances it, balances beautifully. And I, you know what, we missed though? Yes. Flip that lens over, because something else changed on this lens. Uh, a little bit more. What is that thing sticking out the side? Oh, we got a focus tab. Exactly. Yeah, we forgot about that. Yeah, sorry.

"So, hey Jose, there it is. Hey."

"Um, right, so with that focus tab, all the previous versions, and you could show, yeah, F, show a version four. Yeah. So, sorry, name, um, yeah, so not this has a tab. Tab. So version three, if you, so if you need a focus tab, do not get a version three. That's you go."

"Yeah. And the focus tab, for those who, who use it, who love it, and take it for granted on a lot of the lenses now, the focus tab gives you a frame of reference so that you can pre-focus either distance or infinity or mid-distance without looking before you raise it up to your eye. Yeah, it gives you that, that tactile sensation, which is a lot harder to tell on the, you know, more ambiguous focus throw of the previous versions. The, this is, h, this is the sweet spot right here. And I happen to like this lens design even more than the newer one, but that's comes later."

Okay, so, 50mm f/1.4 ASPH, version four. We see black anodized aluminum, silver chrome over brass. Those are the two production variants for years. Then in 2015, we get black chrome. So this is a lens that pays homage to the original version one and version two. I told you we'd be coming back to this, where we have the, um, knurled focus ring, the E43 filter size, the sort of ridged aperture, um, ring. So all of these design features. Even has the M, yeah, that cross-attach design. Oh, this has here the, um, um, grip on the back. So this lens is paying tribute to the original version twos and version ones. And very, very similar, except it's quite a bit larger and heavier, and far, far superior based on the, so it's far superior optically. Um, this is in black chrome, which is the same finish that Leica used on their M cameras from the M10 all the way to the, not the M11, but, um, the Monochrome, all the Monochroms, M10, M10-R, all the black chrome cameras are black chrome over brass. So this is a perfect match for the black chrome cameras. And because it is the, um, sort of homage design with an E43 filter thread, it does not have an integrated hood. It uses this ginormous clip-on shade, which is again, also made from brass. Um, this lens comes in at, I'll tell you, 385 grams. So it's actually only about 50 grams heavier than the regular black version, and almost 100 grams lighter than the silver chrome. So even though this is also brass, it's still significantly lighter than the silver chrome. Um, of course, being an homage to the vintage lenses, it does not have a focus tab anywhere to be found. So that's something to keep in mind.

Now, this was originally brought out with a special edition, right? And then, yeah, when they made this, they said they were making 500, but unless they're making one per year, they're definitely, they definitely made more than 500. I think they did make an initial production run of 500, and they're like, "You know what? Let's make a few more." Yeah, yeah. And then they serialized it. So, so this is, this is now standard production. I mean, no longer made. They just discontinued it because it was replaced by the version five. But this is probably one of the more fun, non-super rare, but still unusual, and again, the perfect match for any black chrome M camera, which is really cool.

Now, we're going to have some fun. Oh, what do we got? Like I said, there are a mountain of special. And I'll try to speed run through these as best I can so we don't spend too much time. We'll start with the special editions that also pay homage to the classic, meaning the E43 knurled focus ring. We've got a couple of them. I'm going to start with this beauty right here.

"Oh, I know what that one is."

"This is the 50 Summilux 1.4 from the Leica M M Monochrome 246 Jim Marshall Edition. How cool is that? Only 50 of these were made. They were only sold in the United States. They are unfinished brass, even the rear cap and the front cap is unfinished brass. Uh, these are absolutely gorgeous. I'll take everything apart so you can get a better look at it. Again, this is basically a 50mm f/1.4 black chrome, except with no, with no black chrome on it. It is 385 grams, which is exactly the same weight, which makes sense because it's the same length. So this is a bare brass lens. Only 50 of these were ever manufactured. This thing is visually striking. It's like, you wonder like, where did the paint go? Like, no, no, there was never any paint on it. Um, and of course, it has that metal cap, rear cap, which is very cool."

"Yeah. And then perhaps the most iconic special edition in this finish, in this assuming that style, is 2005. The Leica MP3 came out, and that was a special edition, um, film camera that was released by the, uh, called the LSI, Leica Society International. And they made the MP3 set in silver chrome and black paint. So with the camera, you got a Leica M and you got a 50 Summilux. This is the first time that we've seen a 50 Summilux in the sort of homage E43 vintage barrel design. These are unbelievably gorgeous. This one is the silver chrome variation, which is in brass, um, just like the black paint one is. Again, this is, pardon me, basically the same as the black chrome one we see today, in terms of the same barrel design, except it is in silver chrome and way, way rarer. There are a thousand sets total, excuse me, a thousand lenses total, and only 125 of each were sold separately. Meaning most of these, um, MP3 set lenses were sold with cameras, but a very, very small number were manufactured and boxed and sold on their own separately. Now, the lens came with a black 12586 shade. So both the black paint and the silver chrome iteration of the LSI MP3 came with the same, um, aluminum lens shade. Now, in black paint, they are probably the most beautiful black paint modern lens that Leica has ever made. And this does require the gloves. You can always tell, tell M when the gloves go on, the value goes up, the rarity goes, you don't even want to know. There it is. All right, let's look at this bad boy. Let's see here. It is the Holy Grail of black paint modern lenses, in my opinion. 50 Summilux ASPH MP3 Edition. Absolutely stunning in black paint. I mean, just look at it. Black paint lens cap. I mean, wow. The way this just shines. You can see the little LSI logo there, maybe. I think, um, I can see it. H, I just like want to cry looking at this thing. Um, yeah, absolutely stunning. Okay, the salty tears. I'm going to put it back in its little house now so it stays safe. But, um, I love the sheen on that. Yeah."

Now, what's really, really interesting is it's very unusual, except in the modern days, no, but it's very unusual for Leica to do silver lenses in aluminum up until now. Now they're doing it all the time. But Leica did a really fascinating thing when the Frankfurt store and gallery wanted to come out with their own special edition. They came out with an MP240, like in a blue-gray finish, beautiful, with a 50 Summilux close up in silver. Now, you may be saying, "Well, Josh, isn't this the same thing as the LSI 50 Summilux in silver chrome?" Well, if you look really carefully, as I ignore the hood for a second, this is the LSI edition, of which they made a thousand, or 500 in silver. And silver chrome over brass. Well, the Frankfurt Edition is actually aluminum. So the finish is sort of, the sheen is different, the color is a little different, and of course, the weight is dramatically different. This lens comes in at 310 grams, so 75 grams lighter. But the two interesting facts about this lens that I like are: one, it's the only time that I know of that the 12586 hood was produced in silver. If anyone knows of another way to get this hood in silver, put it in the chat because I don't know of it, which is amazing that not even the LSI version, which is considered the king of the silver chrome 50 Luxes, didn't have a silver hood. And what's also interesting is the serial number is not on the front. It's engraved on the bottom of the lens barrel, which I find fascinating. Only 50 of these. And again, they came with the MP240. Um, I've only got a few more, and we'll move on.

Now, we're getting real cool. So now we're getting away from the sort of, um, vintage design E43 barrel attributes that we saw with black chrome, black paint, silver bare brass. Now we're going to lenses that have the same barrel design as the standard version of the lens, the E46 version. We're going to start, we're going to start with this absolute stunner.

"Oh, that is nice."

"This came from the M9-P Hermes set. Only 300 of these were made in 2012. It is aluminum, um, aluminum, silver, silver aluminum, excuse me, with orange sort of Hermes-style lettering, a black Leica dot, a metal focus tab, because the other lenses, the standard versions, the tab is always in plastic. Metal focus tab. Same retractable shade that you see on the standard production. Front and rear caps are in matching aluminum as well. And this absolutely beautiful sort of ridge pattern on the aperture and the focus and the, the rear section here. Very unique, really, really, really beautiful. Um, M9-P Hermes Edition Summilux. Yeah, that orange sort of tan matches the leather that."

And now the last two, um, are probably the coolest ones. First, oh yes, David mentioned that there's not a lot of lenses in titanium. Well, here is one of them. So when the 50 Lux came out in 2004, that was also 50 years of M. So to commemorate this occasion, Leica launched a Leica M7 in titanium. 50 were made with three lenses: 20 Summicron, 50 Summilux, 90 Summicron. Those sets are six figures. Now, another 500 sets were made with just the M7 and the 50 Summilux made from titanium. That's what I'm holding here. So the, even the focus tab is titanium. This isn't titanium paint like we saw on the version three, real brass painted titanium color. This is actual, real solid titanium. Even the front cap, which is screw-on, which is fascinating, is made from titanium. Feels amazing. Wow. So this lens is again, only 550 of these exist between the two sets, made from titanium. And again, the same design as the, um, standard version that we saw when it came out in 2004.

And the final version I'll show is probably the most peculiar. Here we go. This is the stainless steel 100 Year Edition of the 50 Summilux. So in 2014, to commemorate 100 years of Leica, they introduced the Leica 100 set. That was a Leica M Monochrome, a Leica MA, a 28 Summilux, 35 Summicron, and 50 Summilux, all manufactured from solid stainless steel. This thing weighs a ton, although still not as much as the silver chrome variant, but very close. Wow. I would have, I would have pegged this as heavier. This is unbelievably gorgeous. I mean, this is stainless. All the caps are stainless steel. The, um, the lens mount, I mean, the mounting dot is black, but the really, really, really interesting part of this lens is it's the only variation of the E46 style 50 Summilux without a focus tab. Fascinating. I, I didn't even realize this until I saw this, and I actually sold this lens as part of a set. I sold this all new. I think they ran out of, ran out of stainless steel. They just couldn't make them. Unbelievable. I mean, these are so incredibly rare. The sets have become extremely valuable. Very. So to see now, to see both, oh my God, stainless steel iteration and the titanium iteration together in the same place, to have them in my hands while I'm over here staring at a, a brass one, a gold, black paint, is the best part of my job, people, because I am spoiled by all this. And of course, I have to thank everyone, you know, everyone who helped me out for making this happen.

"Oh, they're not donations."

"Ooh, you caught on to my secret. Yes, yes, they are donations."

So that covers. So, wait, out of, out of all this, I'm, I'm just curious now. If you could only pick one, you only pick one?

"Yes."

"First, I am very curious for those out there in, in, in the internets. I'm curious. Leave in the chat. I actually want to hear what the favorites are right now. I think I have a favorite. Okay, but what, what is yours?"

"Okay, I think black. Okay, I have to pick two variants because there has to be a production favorite and a special edition favorite."

"Okay, fair. Production favorite, probably the silver chrome 50 Summilux aspheric because I love the weight. I love the way that lens feels, the throw, the fact that it's brass. Special edition is probably the black paint version three, pre-aspheric LSI."

"I mean, I love all these really exotic ones, but I'm just, I like a tool. Like, um, the Traveler is a close second because..."

"Wait, wait, wait, wait. I said only. Wait. I said one."

"Two. Three."

"All right, fine. What is your favorite, dude?"

"Wait, let's hear from Jose."

"Okay, give me that Jim Marshall set. And that's it. That's it."

"So, you like the bare brass. This one is extremely cool. I will not lie. I feel like it is darker than when it came out. Yeah, this has been used. Kevin, who owns this lens, was watching. He, uh, he used this. So he, it's really patined quite many moons ago. I did an unboxing of this on the channel, and you can actually see the full set, but I remember it being a lot more brass color. This, this has lived in. This is really a lot of love for the stainless steel. Okay. And there it is. I would say, actually, no, I'm going to say the titanium for me. Okay. This one. Yeah, the titanium. I love that screw-on shade. Yeah. Oh, you mean the screw-on cap. The cap. Yeah. The shade is onto the shade. Thank you. My brain. Um, love that it still has a focus tab. Good. And the titanium is so cool. And, and it is rare, but that's not why I like it. Yeah, it's just a benefit. And, yeah, this is one of the coolest lens caps I've seen. Most of these are are push-on metal. This is like flush machined, so smooth. So I'm going to say, yeah, modern version titanium for me."

"Okay. I mean, I have, I've spent the, what, what are the people saying? I mean, I see a lot of, let's see, a lot of stainless steel, a lot of stainless steel, a lot of titanium, some love for the black paint. Yep. Uh, black paint is really sexy, but a lot of love for the golds. A lot of love for the gold. Really? Okay. But I think stainless steel looks like it has the most number of, um, I see titanium, titanium. I think it's a toss-up between stainless steel and titanium. I think so too."

"Titanium comes in at, let's look at the weights, 4382 grams. So it's a little bit lighter, which makes sense. Yeah, titanium. I don't know. I mean, now I'm lucky to be sitting here holding these two in my hand. I think I had to choose the stainless steel because it just looks so sick. Yeah, without the, um, the focus tab, even though I, it's practically not for a, right, right, right. Visually very nice. Jeff, if you're watching, these lenses are sick. Just, oh gosh, they're so sick. Right, so sick. Yeah. Just in case, just watching because that's, he was telling me how sick he thinks. I bet he was sick. Reiterating."

"Jeff reiterating that so sick. Um, so anyway, that is a mind-blowing amount of special editions. It's not even all of them. I tried to get a few that I, that I couldn't get. Maybe on a future show, if you have, if you have a special edition 50 Summilux that I did not show, please let me know either in the chat or email me because I'd love to show it on a future episode. It's kind of a throwback to the show would be awesome. Yeah. But now, enough of me rambling about crazy stuff. David, wait, there's more. There's a fifth version. What happened last year? We got this, which you have to show. So saying it's not made from titanium or stainless steel or ostrich feathers. Only ostrich feathers. Let's get a close-up."

"Okay, so where we changed last year, we got, hold on. Oh, overhead. Really? Okay. Well, we just did their overhead. Die, apparently we ran out of battery. Okay. Uh, you want to change it? You have to like get over me. Do you? I can do it. You want to? Here. Well, I'll talk about, I'll talk about the, um, we want to switch places. B, we have over the battery D. Um, yeah, are we done showing stuff on the overhead? We can, uh, demo something on here, or you can show on the computer. Why don't on the computer for now? Yeah, bring, bring up something on the test. I'm going to, I'll be right back. In fact, talk about, um, can you get there without me getting up?"

"Yeah, okay. Talk about the, um, Nashville. Oh my goodness, how could I forget? Thank you. So while David helps us with our battery situation, I want to mention something else before we get to the last version of. If you want to, if, if you have dreams of hanging out with me in Tennessee and geeking out about stuff, now is your chance. So as you know, we are both members and huge fans of the LSI, the Leica Society International, which is the preeminent group of Leica enthusiasts in the world. They have a couple of meetings every year, and this year's spring meeting is in Nashville, Tennessee, from April 18th to the 20th. Now, this is the first time that I am actually going to be giving my own presentation. David and I did a live version of our show in Colorado Springs at a meeting, a year and a half ago. Now, I will be giving a presentation at this meeting in Nashville, Tennessee. The theme of the presentation is called "Getting Your Money's Worth," and essentially, it is going to be me yelling at you about how to maximize the utility, investment, and value retention of your Leica equipment. So it's going to be a really cool presentation. I can go off the rails in person that I can't do on YouTube, so it's going to be fun. So I would strongly encourage you to sign up. Registration is open at Leica Society International.org. I don't know if Jose can drop a link to the Nashville, um, thing in the chat, otherwise I can do it. Josh, your name is on the website."

"I just said I'm giving a presentation. Yeah, of Lur Miami is giving a presentation. Oh my God, at the Nashville spring shoot for the, for LSI. So if you are going to be there, I would love to see you. Come up with some, uh, hitting questions for me. If you didn't know about it, you should definitely join the LSI and come and hang out. Um, they have really, really cool meetings. And the best part about an LSI gathering is everybody's there because they share the same love for Leica, which means you can walk up to anyone at any time and just start a conversation, whether it's about photography or gear or anything in between, and you will make new friends. I've seen amazing interactions and connections happen both for myself and a lot of my friends and customers that I've known for years, making lifelong friends, um, through the LSI. So I would strongly encourage you to consider it. It's not that hard to get to. It's going to be a blast. Again, it's April 18th to the 20th, um, in Nashville."

"Yeah, I would, um, I would like to go. I was supposed to go. You'll be where? Patagonia."

"I'm going to be in Patagonia leading a photo workshop with Colin. Should be amazing. And in fairness, when we scheduled our workshop, the dates were different, but these are the final dates. And you know, yeah, we're not, I'm still going to Patagonia."

"Yeah, but I'll be there. I'll be there in spirit. I'll be at National representing L Miami and giving."

"Do you want like a cardboard cutout of me and you could just put it next to you?"

"I was going to do that anyway. Perfect. I have one. Practice my darts."

"Oh, did I? Loud. So sorry."

"You know, um, anyway, so hopefully we will see you in Nashville. But now we have an overhead camera that's working. We do. Let's talk about the last version before we show some testing because we are, time is going well, actually. So we're good."

"Yeah. All right, all right. David, take us through. Let's get a slide and a close-up. Boom."

So last year, 2023, uh, this was a revision. So this is the, the naming is a little confusing here, but this is the 50 Summilux, uh, 1.4 ASPH two, or version, but it's really a version five of the 50 Summilux in general, but the version two of the ASPH. Um, we've got a brand new barrel and hood design here. So you can see the barrel is a little bit thicker, a little bit wider diameter throughout, which gives Leica a little more room mechanically because it has a unique feature, which not yet. So the barrel design now is a twisting lock, where it actually twists out instead of pulls out. Me, the hood? Right. The hood. In twist. The barrel, you say? So instead of, instead of just pulling out and locking, it actually twists and unst.

"Yeah, show the, here, show this one."

"Yeah, so the older one was like, you pull it straight out and then you twist it. Pull, turn, and then it locks. And then the newer one is just a single motion. The idea is you could do it with a finger. I think I can't actually. Hold on. Like this. There you go. Right. It's not that easy, but okay. It's cool. It's cool."

"So this is a brand new hood design, and of course, a brand new barrel design. We still have the focus tab. It is the same optical design, same lens elements as the version one ASPH, exactly. Um, they did make two significant changes, which will actually change your optical performance separate of the glass itself, which is the move from nine aperture blades on the original ASPH to 11 aperture blades on the version two. And, uh, and we've gone from 7 meter minimum focus distance to 0.45 meter minimum focus distance. As Josh will demonstrate, you can see the rangefinder coupled range is still 7 meters because that's a limitation of the rangefinder mechanism. When we go into the gray area here, past the orange and white numbers, that is indicating that the lens is going there, but it decouples from the rangefinder mechanism in the camera. So you have to have a live view setup, either an electronic viewfinder on an M camera, or you need to use it on a live view camera like the SL2. Uh, we stuck with the E46 filter thread, which fits nicely under the retractable lens shade. And, uh, that is the thing. That's the fifth version. But yeah, there's a comment that I did forget to mention, which about the version three, the pre, the last previous ASPH, because it does have a much shorter focus throw. We forgot to talk."

"Quicker, responsive. Thank you, Pearls, for mentioning that."

"So this one, right? And there's another change. I just had to interrupt you again. Um, in terms of the silver version five is, right? Is aluminum, silver anodized rather than, uh, silver chrome? Yes."

"So the weight of the version one ASPH and silver chrome, 465 grams. Here, I'll take it off. Weight of the version two ASPH and silver anodized, 375 grams. So about 100 grams lighter. Here, you could just show this next. Next."

"Yeah, yeah. So let's, uh, get a close-up here. I forgot it was on the camera."

"That's okay. Uh, this is the silver version of the version two. So if I compare it to the silver of the version one, we have a different finish. Yeah, if you can see, it's a different color, different sort of satin. This is brass. This is aluminum. That's the difference."

"Mhm."

"So this is way heavier and awesomer."

"Sorry, I just like this one better."

"Don't say that. I'm hour there. I'm to have my opinion. This is cool, but I don't know. I like the brass. It's also a little bit skinnier, yeah, than the older one, but, you know, I'm splitting hairs now."

"Sure. As your lens."

"Thank you."

"You're welcome. But I don't think we're starting with this one. No."

"Well, I need to show some testing."

"F. Before we do live shooting."

"Sure."

"So that is a 1 hour and 18 minute overview of the five versions of the 50 Summilux M lens. We've done a lot of talking."

"Well, I want to, oh, yes, I want to. Sorry, before we move on from the ASPH version two, and I kind of touched on this off-camera, but I want to say, yeah, um, again, it has the same optical design as the first version, but it's going to give a different optical rendering in certain scenarios, right? So if you're, and a lot of people ask, oh, well, it has 11 aperture blades, so it has better bokeh wide open at, let's say, one meter or 7 meters. It's exactly the same bokeh. It's only when you stop down to say f/2 or 2.8 that you're going to get smoother, call it transitional bokeh at fast apertures, but not wide open, right?"

"Yeah, that's something that we have to kind of explain. So they are going to be more round and a little less octagonal or not, how do you say, nine nonagonal? Non, I don't think that's a word."

"Yeah, an nonagon. A, okay. Nonagonal, whatever."

"I, wow, I'm, I'll show it. It'll see it. Way too jetti for that. See it."

"And then, of course, we're going to, and we demonstrated this on our bokeh episode a few episodes ago, we demonstrated the massive difference that minimum focus makes. So being able to go from 0.7 meters down to 0.45 meters is, I mean, and, and we'll show that in the live shooting as well. Yeah, I can show that right now. It's a massive difference and it totally completely blows out the background a lot more than a 1.4 lens should. Has."

"And this is the perfect segue. Yes. So let's talk about close focus. Because I can dive right into that. If we go to the copy screen here, here, I did a test of some lovely flowers in the Leica store. Those are very lovely flowers. And essentially, the objective here was not to test sharpness or anything like that. It was to have a very clear visual understanding of the differences between the different close focus distances of the different versions. These are, let's make sure I just want to show wide open. So let me just filter that real quick. Here we go. Okay, so here we have 0.45 meters on the ASPH version two. Hold on. Here we go. So this is the, the newest lens. The closest focus. Again, these are all wide open. And you can see that is really, really close. But it's hard to appreciate just how close it is until we go to 0.7 meters. Wow. So this is ASPH version one, version two, version one. I'm just put those side by side. Big difference."

"Sure. You can't move the keyboard."

"Oh, I can move the keyboard. It's wired. What am I doing?"

"Put this over there."

"You're the one that has supposed to be jet, not me."

"All right, so get rid of the side window. The side tab there. There we go. Yeah, version one on the right. Version, excuse me, version one on the left at 0.7 meters. Version two. I mean, this isn't macro, but it certainly is a heck of a lot closer. So if you're trying to do a lot of close-up work, it does make a big difference for sure."

"So then we go to. This is. Here we go. So version two, version two, version one. Wait a minute. Oh, they're still selected. Sorry. Okay. What are the same ones now? We have version three. So this is the Proser that goes to 0.7 meters. I mean, slight differences here, just because the lenses are slightly different focal lengths, like by half a millimeter. Um, you can see that even though the, um, focus distance is the same, look at the character. Let me show you better. Compare them. Meep. There we go. So we've got version one on the left. Version one is aspheric. And then Proser version three. So on the left is the modern iteration at 0.7 meters. On the right is the one that came just before the, the last Proser. And you can see the differences in the bokeh here. The, um, the light sources here are really, really smooth."

"Yeah. And it's loading, loading. I love when it loads. Zoom out a little bit, get better sense of what's happening here. Here we go. And we need to get a faster computer. Here we go."

"So you can see just how much smoother the bokeh balls are here and more circular. But I want to point out the difference here. This is just very silky smooth with very little definition. This has what I would call a vintage bokeh, which is a little more, uh, frenetic, a little more scattered. I happen to like this, but that's up to you. Um, even though this is not a sharpness test, you can see pretty obvious differences. This, again, I, since I'm not testing for sharpness in this scenario, I may not have 100% perfect focus because it's really hard to focus on this little flower, but, um, you can definitely see where the focus just melts away in the corners, especially on the older one, which again, is on the right. Um, let's go here again. Like on the right here, it's like very sort of like scattered and there are little these little shapes and things, things happening. And here it's just very smooth, very soft, very delicate. But then when we go to. Okay, so here we have version three at 0.7. Now, oh no, it's not even remote. You can see the step stool I'm using to get the, to get the flowers up high. This, this is now one meter. Wow. So the bokeh is very similar, except you went a third of a meter further away. So you're inherently going to have more depth of field because depth of field decreases as focus distance increases. So here we have a version two. I said a bunch of version twos, but they're all going to look minor differences, exposure aside, they're all going to look pretty much the same. Um, still, I happen to like the bokeh of the version two. I think it's very pleasing. Um, this is not necessarily a bokeh test. This is a close focus test. But if we skip along a little bit, here we go. Now we have version one. And I'm going to show, bear with me here, make sure I got these right. Sorry, there's a lot of files, so I want to make sure I get it right. Not this one. Sorry. Boom. Okay, so on the left, on the left, version one. On the right, version. Say that again. Version one here on the left. Version two. Both at a meter. Let's take a look and go."

"So we can see center sharpness a little bit. Again, this is not a sharpness test. Let's ignore it. Look at the difference in bokeh. You want to talk about vintage bokeh? Oh my gosh. If you're looking for that absolutely out of control bokeh, get a version one. I mean, that's crazy. I mean, look at this. You know, this is almost like it's almost like comparing the version, the, the previous version to the aspheric in terms of the difference. This, to me, is the biggest difference between the version one and the version two from a practical standpoint. Yeah, there's other differences as well, but just look at the difference. I mean, the character of the bokeh of the version one is undeniably unique. I mean, even here, the way that it's sort of like breaking up these shapes more, really, really, really interesting the way that this lens renders. I'll mention another thing is these older lenses, meaning all the pre-aspheric ones, have a crazy amount of focus shift between f/1.4 and f/2.8. So if you're using them on a rangefinder, you really want to use live view because the amount of distance the focus changes just by stopping down between 1.4 and 2.8 is significant, meaning I was doing some serious, relatively speaking, refocusing as I stopped down from 1.4 to 2.8 to make sure that I still had a sharp image. But definitely a fascinating rendering on the version one compared to the version two."

"So now, if you want to talk about, uh, bokeh a little bit more, this is another bokeh test that I did, a little more real-world scenario, and this is where you're going to see, um, the effect of the extra aperture blades. Hold on. Okay, so let's take a look at the two aspheric lenses. So the version two on the left, version one aspheric on the right. And the easy way to tell is the extra count, the stars, star-like, the extra points on your stars because the more blades you have, the more points you have. And you can see here where on these bokeh balls, let's give it a second to render. I really like that, um, light just off to the right side of the frame."

"Pull the frame over a little bit there."

"Oh, right here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look at the difference there. That's what those extra aperture blades get you. But also, what I wanted to point out was here, these light sources are very smooth and circular, right? Here you can actually sort of see a little bit of the aperture. That's that, that's the shape you see. So the extra aperture blades, which again, do nothing for shooting wide open, do make a difference when you're stopped down. Otherwise, optically, they're pretty much the same. I mean, sharpness is the same, all the sort of standard optical metrics are the same. You would expect that. You expect it's the same optical design. The bokeh looks the same, but the character of the bokeh is going to be different because of the additional aperture blades. I mean, look at that. This light source here, which is just fascinating. So cool. So cool. But let's go to wide open because really, that's what we're using these lenses for. So I'll kind of, um, do a little comparison here. So one and two, same. I mean, there's cars in the background, so sorry, I couldn't get the cops to close down the road for this."

"Too bad, too bad."

"But now we go to. I just got to have my reference keywords here. It's hard to remember which, which. So now we've got version three. So version three, version four. So meaning aspheric to pre-aspheric. Huge difference. Let's do a comparison. You see? Look at the, yeah, I was going to say, look, look at that palm tree sort of in the middle towards the back where, right there. Yep. The one you're on. Yeah. Scroll over a little bit. Pull a little to the right. Yeah. Go up, up. Sorry. Down. The other. H, what's happening down there? Look at that. Yeah. I mean, again, this is vintage bokeh versus modern bokeh. You know, modern bokeh is very controlled, very smooth, very calm. Vintage bokeh is very scattered, very frenetic, very chaotic. And we have really hard edges here. Yeah. I love this. This is my jam, personally. But, um, here you can start to see some very dramatic differences in sharpness as well. Again, this is not technically a sharpness test, but look at the tree bark. Again, version, um, one on the aspheric on the left. Pre-aspheric on the right. Look at the differences here. I mean, these are nice and smooth, and these are just getting all over the place and smear. Again, I'm not seeing one is subjectively better than the other. It's purely what, what you like. I'm also seeing a color difference as well in the. Yeah, that's may just be white balancing, lights flickering. I try not to get too caught up in that because I can make, I could easily make these look the same color-wise if I took five minutes in Lightroom. Um, so both of these. But what's really interesting is if we get, I want to show something else. You may think, uh, that this is a version one because it's glowy. This is what happens when your lens needs service. For love, for better or for worse. Love it or hate it. This is a version two from 1961 that is, um, kind of like a lost cause, a little bit, in terms of how it should be when it was new. Even though I did actually have it serviced by DAG, it still got a fair amount of haze and aberration and weird stuff in the glass. But the upside to that is you get a very distinct look. There is tons of flare going on because there's probably all kinds of coatings and stuff missing, damaged inside the optics. Wow. So shooting directly into these light sources is causing just an absolutely wild image. But I, I love it. I think it looks super cool. Um, if we go to a, a non-messed-up version two, oops, that's version one. Sorry, I didn't do these in order because I was still standing in. Look at the jump and."

Contrast, yeah. And Charness, well, here's a version one. Let's do a version one versus a version two. Let's do that. Okay, sorry. Here we go. So, on, on the left, version one. Nope, sorry. Let me get these right. No, it's hard. It's hard to, like, you know, we don't do these in order. It's hard to, uh, here we go. Okay, got it. Sorry. Nailed it. Thank you for your patience. On the left, version one, 1959. On the right, version two, 1966. Okay, we did it. So, version one on the left, version one on the right, version two on the right. Man, I have just bat a thousand. You were the one that jet lag. I know, right? Look at the difference in the bokeh. Version one, they're like all along. Um, and then on version two, on the right, they're much smoother. So, again, just like the stees inside the store of the flowers, the differences are significant in terms of the way the bokeh renders between the version one and the version two. If you thought the version two was harsh, the version one is even harsher. I don't use harsh in a bad way in this case, just very, very distinct and very just like even. Look, look in the bottom left corner there. I mean, it's not even when there's no light source. It's, it's very squirly and like it is really something else. But here, you can also see where the version two is considerably sharper in the center than the version one. Again, this is not a sharpness test, but, um, definitely each of them are going to have their own character. And these are two very nice examples. So they're not like all messed up. Uh, but I actually tested a number of different version twos just out of curiosity to see how different lenses from different ages would be different in different states of goodness, meaning more haze, more dust. And there are slight differences, which is fascinating. Because you may go shopping for a version two and say, like, well, I love the way the version two renders, and I got to have this one. Then you can buy two different ones, and they're going to look slightly different. So you don't, you got to be a little bit, uh, forgiving when you're getting vintage glass because this stuff's been around for 50, 60 years. They're going to age differently depending on how they were used and stored. Thankfully, the differences are not negligible, um, except for when you get to the ones that are like really messed up. But you can see as I'm cycling through, um, between, let's say, these two version twos, subtle differences, subtle, but they're there. You know, the newer lenses, as coatings got newer, um, they just got better. And they, the bokeh got more controlled. Um, I want to show what time. Oh, we got. Okay, good. If we talk about sharpness, this is really where I want to show you guys something. The old elevator equipment sharpness. Everyone loves the elevator equipment room sharpness. So here we have on the left, the very latest version three, pre-aspheric, meaning, you know, S-lens, 1995, compared to the lens that came right after, which is the aspheric version one. You can see I have my little labels this time. Let's actually go to 100%. Oh, it's a titanium one, so you know it's good. Go to 100%. Yeah, there we got it. Perfect. Look at the difference in the center. I mean, wow. So again, pre-aspheric on the left, aspheric on the right, version one. Well, look at the text. Look at the 2014 text there. I mean, look at this text. Look at that text. Um, now, the real difference is, look at the corners. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. This is the beauty, and also the downside of vintage glass, is the corners are basically mashed potatoes. So that's what it is. This is mashed potatoes. It's soft. Um, I mean, for this is extremely good performance on the right in the corner from the, uh, the aspheric. I mean, look at that. Now, I'm not, I'm not, I'm perfectly, I'm not using a laboratory, so my, I'm sure I'm slightly tilted. So don't, if one corner is softer than the other, this just means I'm slightly off-center. But it's all about comparative, comparative analysis here. I mean, look at the difference. That's not as you get towards the center, they get closer, but still, like, there's no comparison. Um, to the, yeah, look at that. Um, I mean, that's what you're paying for. But what's really interesting is because the version three has the same optical design, optical design as the version two, which is a lens notorious for distortion. Look at the amount of distortion here. Look at how the door frame is is like warped. Where on the version one, aspheric, it's perfectly straight. Wow. So if you care about distortion significantly, do not buy a vintage version two. What, where it gets kind of fun, oops, is if we compare a version one to a version two. The version one, while it doesn't have as little distortion as the aspheric, it has considerably less distortion than the version two. The downside being is the version two is sharper. Although the version one, a little higher contrast, at least in this particular shot. The version two is, um, higher performance corners. You can see that difference as well. Negligible. Oh, this is the messed up version two. Oh, actually, well, that's a great, great, a great comparative analysis here. So both version two on the left and on the right, they're five years apart. Oh my God. On the right is the lens that has that crazy glow with the tree shot because it's just messed up haze, fungus, whatever. And on the left, it's not. So this is what the difference is between buying a good, clean copy and buying a copy that's not so good. For love, for better, for worse, you may want that crazy softness and that crazy glow. So that's that one. Actually looks pretty good. Yeah, on the left is pretty darn good. So if we compare a not messed up version. Grid. See, we want our 6612. Our. Oh, here we go. So now we've got, um, a proper version one versus two, uh, version two comparison. So here is where difference, the difference. So the version one has less distortion, a little more glow, lower contrast. The version two, more distortion, less, a little less glow, higher contrast, and is significantly sharper. I mean, you're looking at, I mean, hopefully you guys can see this. Um, the difference is significant. I mean, look at the circle here. Look at the text. You know, this is only seven years apart, but it makes a difference. Um, so, you know, I'm not saying that every lens is right for every person, but depending on the look you're going for, you may want to consider either a version one or version two. Of course, if you want something that sharp, don't get any of these pre-aspherics. Get an aspheric because the modern aspheric compared to, let's say, a version one, it's like not even fair to do this comparison, but like, come on. Like, I mean, the difference is mind-blowing. But you would expect that, right? They're 60 years apart. Um, the last thing I'll show is, um, the version that's messed up, that was just a mess. I took an opportunity to go out and shoot with it because, why not? Um, and so I went to a, a local car show early in the morning, um, with the SL2s and the 501.4 from 1961 to an early version two with lots of haze. All it's not a good representative of that lens, but I wanted to take advantage of it. So, um, I went and just shot a couple of images at a classic car show. I did have a circular polarizer on the lens, which I always use for my automotive work. Um, but you can see it definitely gives you a very distinct look. And all, most of the guys who owned these various cars, I sent these images to, and they were super stoked. Oh, wow. This, this, I saw the way this car was sitting, and I just played right into the flare to see how much flare. I had no hood. I didn't know how to shield it. I just went bananas. Um, and I, I gave this to the owner of this car, and he absolutely loved it because it's an old car, so it feels. This one is my personal favorite, not only because this is my car, but also because I love this photo of my car. Um, here is an example of where using a camera like the SL2 and a vintage lens is a match made in heaven. Because if you're using this lens on a rangefinder without live view, or just using the optical finder, you have no way of knowing where this flare and beautiful bokeh is falling, and you're kind of at the mercy of whatever happens. But with an SL2 and that crazy good viewfinder, I'm actually in control of where the flare is falling, where the bokeh is happening, what's going on with all of those different variables and characteristics of this vintage lens. I am now in control over completely. And I'm standing behind my car and I'm like, carefully positioning and taking 7, 8, 9 frames just to get everything in the perfect spot. And I happen to love this image of my car. This was my first Instagram post in like a year and a half. Oh, wow. Because I was so happy. Um, Josh is usually antisocial. And then exactly. And then this is just another image again, just having a good time with a vintage funky lens on a modern camera. Yeah, and I think again, using these lenses on the SL bodies, SL2, SL, is just a joy because it makes it so much more rewarding and satisfying to get that perfect focus, at least as best you can with these. Yeah, and be in control of of the bokeh, all the different variables that make these lenses special. So, just a couple of images, um, from, from a little car show that I went to, shot with, again, a very well-loved and, uh, 50mm Summicron pre-aspheric version two from 1961. So I'm going to stop rambling. Cool. We should probably do a few questions. David, I think. Sure. I know we haven't done any live shooting, but I feel like we haven't taken any questions either. Jose, you've been on it. What do we got? Sure. Uh, let me see. Are Leica special edition lenses made to a slightly higher optical end or mechanical standard over their Leica or over their regular, um, counterparts? Not that we know of, and not that Leica says. What you may notice is that if a special edition is compared to, like, let's say, a 50/2 Lux, right, aspheric, if you take a lens from 2005, which is still an aspheric, and a black chrome special edition from 2015, that 10-year difference. Who knows what happened to that 10-year-old lens or 15-year-old lens or whatever. So you there may be seeming differences because of sample variation or just age. But from a functional standpoint, I haven't found any differences. Now, a brass barrel lens is going to feel different than an aluminum barrel lens. And that heft, like the silver chrome 50 Lux may make it feel like it's built better, but it's just different material, right? Okay. Which year did Leica discontinue the use of lanthanum glass on the 50mm Summicron version two? So, I, I saw this question ahead of time, and I did try to research it and find out, and they don't really say. The best guess is in '66, '67, when they switched over formally and they announced that they went from a version one to a version two. But sort of like taking these apart and testing them, I'm not sure. Again, recordkeeping was not the best, and consistency was not the best. Yeah. Okay. What else? Um, are there any optical differences between the current 50mm, uh, Summicron aspheric black chrome version and the regular? No, no, same thing. Same glass. Like, I would never spend the money to make that lens different, that like optically. That would be crazy. But cool. I wish. Um, it's actually very unusual to have a special edition that's optically different. The only one I can think of is the 50 Lux for the M7, which was made just for that set. Otherwise, special editions, it may have different filter sizes, but the optics are going to be the same. There was a question earlier about the 50 Summicron, um, the current one, the black chrome. The, uh, first they made 500, but then they continued to make more. Um, they're asking, were the first run made in Germany and the second run in Portugal? Oh, I'm so glad you asked this question. So, it's complicated. No. Um, there was a situation in the United States where there was a tariff on German optics. So Leica started producing made in Portugal M lenses, exactly the same, every way, except they said "Made in Portugal" on them. So they were not subject to the tariff. M. They only made them for a few years, and I think they're kind of going to be, I'm not going to say they're going to be collectible, but they're definitely a peculiar part. As it so happens, you have two boxes over there. Uh, we just got in recently two, I'm calling them cert-pre-owned, basically open box, made in Portugal, brass barrel 50 Summicrons. We have a silver chrome and a black chrome. So both of these in these boxes, this is black chrome, this is silver. Both of these in these boxes are, um, new condition, full warranty, brass barrel lenses. But you can't get anymore, right? They don't make the 50s in brass anymore. They're only in aluminum. And they're both the Portugal version. So it's sort of a peculiar part of Leica's history. Again, they're exactly the same because the glass and the assembly is all done in Portugal. Anyway, all that's really happening is the final assembly and the production, um, the packaging is happening in Portugal for these lenses. So if you're looking for either the heaviest M50 Summicron ever made, the, um, 11892, or the 11717, which is the silver chrome E43, 465 grams of awesomeness. We have a really, really nice certified pre-owned copy, really just open box, um, some with the full passport warranty, three-year Leica warranty, they say. Yeah, and extendable to a fourth year if you register it, um, or the black chrome version with the removable shade, also in brass, um, also made in Portugal. So those are two little, like, cool things that we had that tied in really well to this episode. I'm not even going to take them out of the box because they look brand new, and you've seen them, and you've seen them. But we do have them. Jose can drop links, um, in the chat as well for those. So, no, they made them in Germany. They did, up until the end of production. And they also made a small selection of them in Portugal, um, to get around the tariff situation for a short period of time. It was, I think, two or three years, maybe, very short amount of time. Yeah, because the tariff went away. Exactly. What else? Okay, uh, I think you mentioned this, but which 50 Lux is the smallest and lightest? That is the black anodized version three, code 1168, at 275 grams. It is the lightest of every version that I had access to and weighed on an actual scale. So not just specs, but actual weighing them all comparatively. Yeah. Okay. There's a few that just came in. Is the new Summicron lens hood removable, replaceable at all? By customer care? Sure. Um, just not user replaceable. I mean, not without a screwdriver, yeah, or a lot of force. But we don't recommend it. Yeah. The silver chrome, um, that I have pre-owned, is is not the latest version, and you know that because it's silver chrome. Mhm. It's the previous version. The new version is silver anodized. So the two versions we have are both in brass, which you can't get. They don't make the current version in brass. The 2023 version, only the previous version from 2005 to 2023. Did you, did you have a chance to get them in brass? I think it's also worth mentioning, we, we talked about this, I think in the 35 episode, but, um, if you're using these on a film camera, on a film rangefinder, and you never intend to use it in live view, we actually recommend the previous version over the. That's probably the most underrated aspect of the previous version 50 Lux aspheric is as soon as you turn that focus ring past the detent of 0.7 meters, it's no longer rangefinder coupled. Even if you're not using a live view camera, so even if you are using a live, but you're using the rangefinder, and you just accidentally go past that point, you lose coupling. So if you don't need the close focus, and you want either a brass barrel or just you like that older, older style, the skinnier barrel, yep, the previous version is the same optically. The performance is the same. I tested them, you saw it. There's no, like, you know, other than the obviously different bokeh characteristics because of different blades. Um, I think the best deals in terms of performance for dollar are on the aspheric version one, especially if you want that sweet, sweet brass barrel, which is just awesome. Sweet, sweet brass. So sweet. Okay. What else? Which 50 Lux has better glass? M or SL? SL. Yeah. Next. But, but it's like this big. Yeah. I mean, as we talked about before, SL, uh, Summicron lenses represent, well, they were talking about Summicron. Even that. Yeah. Summicron doesn't have the character of any of these Z lenses, but yeah, it's higher performance for sure. Stupid sharp and closer focus. Yeah. Uh, Gen. Well, it's about the same as the, as the second version of the aspheric. Point. It's that, that difference is negligible now. But it's obviously a different animal altogether. Saw a question earlier, uh, that was interesting, that it's kind of hard for us to know, but somebody asked, who makes the decisions on on on these special editions, um, on the finish, basically, in Leica? Right? I mean, I'm sure there's a committee of people that are deciding this stuff. Design. But I don't know the logic. I just wake up one morning with a memo saying, stuff is coming out, and I go, sweet. How do I get it? How do I get it? How do I touch it and hold it? I need it. Um, there was also a question asking about prices for those special editions, at least an estimate. I wouldn't do that because number one, if you're not viewing us live, it wouldn't make sense. And number two, they are all over the place. These, some of these pieces are so rare, hard to value. They're very hard to value. And it's, yeah, especially if they come in sets. Yeah. So no, I mean, other than like the new ones you could buy new, you could look at for pricing, but no, I'm not going to start throwing numbers around right now. Okay. Um, I do want to mention real quick, I need to shout out everybody that helped us before the show. I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it at 10 o'clock. I want to do it now. Um, without viewers and friends and customers giving us a chance to borrow their precious, precious glass, we wouldn't be able to do a show like this. And I am ridiculously grateful to everybody that helped me. Um, there's so many people. I had to literally put it on paper. Is this going to be like the Oscars where we start? Jose starts playing the music? Exactly. You know, this. So, so Kevin, he loaned me a bunch of lenses, like the Jim Marshall and the Frankfurt and the Ares. Mark, who loaned me the reverse gallop and the regular version one and a bunch of version twos. Javier, who loaned me his traveler, sick, his black paint, two of my favorites, and the beautiful black paint M4. Who loaned me his sick black paint lenses, pre-aspheric and LHSA. Omar for his 50 Lux pre-aspheric in black. Jim for your crazy cool stainless steel 50 Luxes. Almost done. Utong and Michael for both loaning me, uh, version two in black. And then of course, Carlos for letting me steal your, um, version two in silver, which is also the lens I used for the car show. So, wow. Um, I also have to shout out Tim Lee, who you may or may not know, he is like a reseller in Canada. He hooked me up. I bought them, but he found them for me with the gold lens, the traveler, and the titanium that you've seen. So, um, Jose can drop his Facebook page in the chat as well. If you can't find him from me, you can trust him. Um, I'd buy from him. So definitely a good source for obscure stuff. It comes from all over the world, but he does a good job. And like I said, I've known him for years. And I have to thank him as well for for making some of these lenses, um, possible. Um, so that is the shout outs. Thanks to everyone who helped Josh out. Thank you. I really, I didn't want to forget. I really, really appreciate it. Our camera. Okay. Um, because some of these pieces are very difficult to replace, and it means a lot to us that you're willing to part ways for a little while with your babies. Now, you're not going to get them back. So, you know, wait, you didn't know that when you sent them. They were gifts. They were gifts. Yeah. We assume the tax write-up form is in the mail. Exactly. Exactly. So anyway, thank you again for for making this episode possible. Um, we really, really appreciate it. Super awesome. Yeah, super awesome. Um, we got time for a few last minute questions. I think. I guess we're. I don't think. Does anyone want to see anything on here? I mean, why don't you set up a close focus shot so they can see the difference? 0.45. While I do a few more questions. So this one's going to be pretty. You don't need to talk though. I'll talk. Jose, what do you got? Uh, last question that just came in. Is the 50 Summicron, uh, feral as sharper or sharper than the 35 Summicron aspheric since it has APO properties? Uh, I haven't compared them against each other, but I would say the FLE is a little bit sharper than, excuse me, the 35 Summicron FLE is a little bit sharper than the 50 Summicron version one, just because it was a newer design. But the 11874, so the pre-FLE 35 Summicron, very, very close. I, I don't usually compare different focal lengths because there's so many other variables that determine what they're going to look like. But I would say pretty close to the pre. Yeah, and I'll probably add that just because it has APO doesn't usually mean it's sharper than a non-APO, but yeah, it depends on the. There's a lot of variables here. Um, any other? Is it possible to have a version two six-bit coded? Not by Leica. I, I don't know if third party could do it. I wouldn't recommend it. Um, so no. Um, no. If you want six-bit coding, you got to go version three. Like, official, legit, Leica six-bit coding. All right, let's take a look here. This is at 7 meters. There we go. There's our buddy. Uh, uh, looks a little bright there. There we go. So that's, that's 7 meters. That's what you would expect. That's at 1.4. And how much of a difference does it make if we get closer? So I'm going to have to actually push this a lot further in. And now we're going into the decoupled range. That's not even minimum distance. That's right about there. Right at the edge of our, right at the edge of our table. Don't, uh, don't drop the camera. We just hold it. I'm holding it. So this is 0.45. Uh, yeah, just about. Yeah, that's really, really. I mean, that is a huge advantage if you do a lot of close focus work, especially if you're working with an SL, which is obviously always on live view, or if you're using the Visoflex 2 on an M11. Yeah, huge benefit. And just for kicks, how about one meter? There we go. Yeah, we can even get. Let's see if I can even get. You can see the whole studio. Oh, not quite. There's one meter and it's like right on the edge. There we go. Gives him an idea though. Yeah, that's one meter and yeah, so you can see pretty true, pretty dramatic difference. You know what you should do now though, is pop on a version one because now that you're closer. Okay. Um, let's probably want to come back before I blow. Come back to us. Uh, let's pop. We're going to, we're going to go from the newest, newest, newest to the oldest, oldest, oldest. So just to show you how far Leica has come in the last 60-something years. You got it. Don't drop it. I'm not dropping it. Okay. Don't drop it. It's very difficult. Very difficult. There we go. Got it. Don't get a lens profile, so it's properly corrected. Yep. M lenses. And we're looking at 50. Keep going, keep going. One more, two more. Oh, there we go. Yeah, yeah. Perfect. Okay, so we're going to go. Interesting. Yeah. This is a version one. Uh, hopefully you can get. You should be able to focus. It's close. No, that's fine. I can actually get a little closer. There we go. Get the eyes. We're getting there. It's, it's, you can't rush the art. Okay, let's take a look. All right, let's see. That's not. It's hard to tell. That this look. Look at the, uh, I'm gonna take a shot here. Okay. Did you take one with the other one? I didn't. Oh, sorry. That much. It's okay. Okay. But now you can see it's, you know, it's not bad. It's not bad. It's not bad. But let's, let's go up a little more here. I'm going to zoom out just so I can scroll faster. But that the bokeh is breaking in into the bear. Yeah, it's pretty wild. Um, and you can see that it's, it, it's the bokeh we're talking about, right? Which is that kind of crazy funky vintage bokeh. Oh, I see. Somebody said they had it, version two coded by DAG. Yeah, but that's not real six-bit coding. So, wow. Look at. Sorry, DAG. That's a little crazy right there. Yeah, my goodness. Oh my gosh. Uh, yeah, so that, this is, uh, interesting for sure. I would say, and for comparison's sake, again, that's minimum distance. I'm going to take this off and hand it back to you. Back to come back to us so we're not, um, blinding everybody. Okay. All right. This one's easier to put on. All right. Now, wait. What do we got now? I missed it. This is the modern version. Okay. Okay. Because you asked me to take a shot. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Now I'm just going to go to 7 meters. Okay. And is 7 meters? There we go. So let's just take a shot here at 7 meters. I'm going to go up a little bit just so I can get some of that, some of that bokeh. Brighten it up. Okay. All right. Now, obviously, we're a bit, a bit on the sharper side here. Yeah, just a little bit. So that's, that's wide open, and it looks pretty darn, pretty darn sharp. Yeah. And then if we go scrolling up, we get much more modern, much more controlled, much smoother. Yeah. I, there's a huge difference. You know, I mean, it, it would be very easy for me to have a modern asph Lux and a two or version three and use them like, and not feel like there's any redundancy because they perform so differently in terms of sharpness, flaring, bokeh, overall character, that there's really no overlap there. Um, no, they're, they're two different paintbrushes, you know? Yeah. So having, having a modern lens, I think, I think it really, the determining factor of if we were going to go for an aspheric version one or an aspheric version two is if you're using it strictly in rangefinder with no EVF, or if you're using it on a, on an analog film camera where there is no live view option, um, I think the version one aspheric makes a lot more sense for most people. Um, and there's really cool versions of it, obviously. Yeah, the version one is so favorite. Like my titanium one that I'm taking, you can't have it because you can get them in brass, and I love the way that feels. Yeah. I got to show. I got to show this real quick. Oh, yeah, for sure. And then I'm just going to say, while you prep that, and then the version two, if you're going to use it on on an SL body, or you're going to use it on an M11, an M10 with, you know, with a Visoflex 2, where you have actual resolution and performance and you can focus easily, I think the version two makes a lot of sense because that close focus ability, which I didn't even show off here, just really, uh, extends the usability of the lens. Right? It's not macro, but it's really close. Yeah, and it's great separation. And then having those extra two blades make some really cool stars, which I like. But now Josh is going to show something. Now I got to show you, uh, what is on the wrist today, just because it does fit with the brand. Can we get a closeup? Wait, wait, you got to put that with it. Did we lose our closeup? Hing? No. What? Sorry, sorry. Overhead. Yep. We lost it. No. Not now. Did it die again? Hold on. Yep. Wow. It can't. He's going to pick. So David will do that while I, um, answer any more last minute questions. But you're going to have to go to Josh one second. One second. Like, oh, Josh. And what? Josh. And the. We can go to. Well, let's, we'll pull Leica real quick. There you go. Thank you for your patience, everyone. Okay, here we go. All right. Well, I'll show a couple, um, couple another bokeh tests real quick while you're doing that. Um, if you want to get a cool sense of, um, how modern, how did an ant get on the table? What the heck is going on? Um, how modern comparison to vintage. So these are all my, this is my backyard. Well, there's not even grass. Can you call it a yard? Okay, here we go. Let's compare a V, not that V2. Here we go. So we have V1 on the left here, V2 on the right. Again, you can get his feel for how that bokeh is changing. Uh, here we go. Zoom in a little bit. Version one is on the left. Version one on the left. Yeah, so much more like chaotic and and broken up and super vintage looking. I, I love that. I love the version one. It kind of reminds me of the, uh, 50/1.2 Noctilux rendering a little bit. Yeah, it's got a little like baby Noctilux vibes for sure. Um, fascinating. Sure somebody knows the name of this plant who's watching this. I have no idea. Then you then you start talking about, um, version one versus modern, and you can see just on the left, the modern one, how smooth, silky smooth, just melts away. Look at the bokeh balls here, just like very, very smooth. This is the definition of modern Summicron bokeh on the left, and the definition of vintage Summicron bokeh on the right. This is like 101, like this is how it works. Um, what do we got going on here? Nothing. Okay. Don't worry about. Okay, everything's fine. And already on your overhead though. What? There. Oh, we got it. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Enough of that. Come back to me. Come back to us. And then close up. Okay. Okay. Thank you for your understanding while we talk about what is on the wrist today. And this. So if you are familiar with Leica's range of ZM watches, this is the ZM2 Monochrome Edition. It's actually quite hard to really show. Um, these are paying a homage, of course, to the monochrome camera. There's an M11 Monochrome for comparison. I need to profusely thank the owner of this watch who is allowing me to wear it on the show before they even take deliveries of it themselves. You know who you are, if you're watching. Someone very special. Um, I could not pass up the chance to get this thing on the wrist because I have been dying to even see one of these, even the buckle. So this is a black PVD coating over stainless steel. Um, the whole dial is poed out. The best part, of course, like all these watches, is the back. But the back on these, on the monochrome, is especially cool because of, you'll see why here. Here we go. Look at this. It's pretty nice. So because the surrounding material is black, the movement just pops like crazy. It's a manual wind movement, so there's no rotor to get in the way. You can just see everything. Um, I have been really, really impressed with Leica ZM watches. We will do a show on them once the ZM11s are starting to ship. That's still in progress because we want to show you guys the full range. But just being able to get my hands and wrist on the ZM2 Monochrome has been an absolute joy. That little splash of color from the red dot on the crown, um, comes with the sort of black PVD case with like a little bit of, um, brushed, the brushed, um, case flanks here. Looks gorgeous. And the strap is unique as well. So it's a fully monochrome strap. Says handmade in Germany on it. A standard ZM2 would have a red. Exactly. So it's a different strap. Has this a totally different strap specific to the monochrome. And again, the hardware on the pin buckle is also on PVD black. So, and even the texture matches, like, similar. It is so, so cool to see these, to see the watch, and to see it together with the M11 Monochrome. So anyway, that is really neat. Had to do a quick on the wrist, um, wrist check because it is a, it is a Leica watch. So very cool. Um, I don't know if we have any like last minute questions, otherwise we can. Some questions. We can call it a demo. It's pretty late. So, um, let me see. Let me see. What's the workaround for using filters and the lens hood with the black chrome edition? Oh, that is a great question. Good. So the 50/2 Lux black chrome, the modern asph lens, which has the big brass hood. If you try to put on an E43 filter, the hood will not go over it. It simply just gets stuck. So Leica customer care can actually modify the lens hood for you for free if you send it to them. What they do is they turn it from a clip-on shade into a threaded shade. So they actually, want to get a closeup of this perhaps? Um, you didn't bring one, did you? I did not. I just didn't have time to source one. So what they do is they, they basically cut it in half. So, so this part where the clips gets removed, and the hood is just the sort of hood part, and then there's a 43mm thread that takes the place of this clip-on. So you simply put the filter on the lens and then thread the hood into the filter. That is the workaround. As someone who does not use lens hoods, I can't say that bothers me very much. But if you do own this lens or aspire to own it, and you need to use filters and the hood at the same time, you just send it to Leica customer care. It's a free modification, and they can essentially separate the hood to make it a threaded hood. That's the workaround. Cool. Yeah. Okay, got it. Any other burning questions? Uh, no. Nothing that's it. I think we should sign us off. Just one question that came in. Uh, do have a question with the 50 Summicron close focus, is it true that the center sharpness is inferior to the version one of aspheric? No, no. Not from my testing. I don't doubt that a bad copy was made somewhere and someone had it and had a problem. Like, you know what I mean? Like, these things happen. But as the guy who just tested version one to the version two, it's exactly the same. Y. I mean, you're more likely to have an error with focus, which I certainly have all the time, than you are a bad copy of the lens. Like I've definitely done focus sharpness testing where I just miss focus, and I do, I look at the results and I go, wait a minute, and then I do it again, and I go, ah, yeah. So when you're talking about judging sharpness wide open, especially on a flat field like the test targets that I'm doing, you have no margin of error. It has to be perfect, or else it's going to bias one way or the other, and you're not going to get a true representation of the performance. All right. All right. Is that it then? We're done. It's late. So now the question is, well, now that you've done 35 and 50, we have more lenses. It's just a lot of work. Okay, so just cover me some slack. Wait, you didn't just pull these out of the cover. I didn't. No. 28 is next, but that's going to take me a couple of months to get that ready. So, be patient. Be patient. Yeah. All right. Wow. Well, this has been a, a tour de force of 50mm Summicrons. I, I seriously doubt that this amount of 50 Luxes and this variety and completeness, except for the ones that Josh just couldn't get because, you know, inadequacy. Failure. Failure. Not going to sleep. Not going to sleep tonight. He's like tossing and turning. Oh, black paint, black paint. That's right. Struggle, struggle is real. Um, this is incredible to see all of this in one place that we can, uh, share with you. So, just huge thanks to Josh and thanks to everyone who helped him out, loaning him these lenses. Um, it's awesome to see this and, uh, and nerd out over over all the gloriousness here. Uh, 50 Summicron is a super important lens for Leica. You know, it's kind of a, a standard benchmark now, but they had to start somewhere. And seeing that progression, hopefully you learned something new about the 50 Lux, maybe got some insight into what particular one or ones or many that you'll be hunting from now on, and give you those kind of subtle variations of, I want this with this version and that, and you might have to rewatch the episode in a little more detail because a lot of information laid down. Oh, yeah. But again, hopefully you found it useful. If you did, um, please give us a thumbs up. If you're not already subscribed to the channel, please do so. Subscribe. It helps us out a lot to grow the channel. Make sure to click the notification bell so you know when we post new content like this. We will be back soon. Is sometime, sometime. I didn't actually look at our. I'm not sure. I didn't look at our calendar, but we will be back soon with another exciting episode of Red Dot for Camera Talk. If you want to see the previous, I don't know, 75 episodes, any of those, we do have those in our playlist broken down by type. So you can look at M lenses, you can look at, you know, 50mm, whatever. It's all there in the archive. Also, you can check us out on YouTube podcast and Spotify podcast. I keep adding, uh, more archived episodes. I think we've got five or six in Spotify podcast right now. And you can also check us out on Apple News at Red Forum. And of course, the full website, red dot forum.com for the latest Leica and new news, reviews, tech articles, lots, lots more. Be sure to check us out on the web and of course, watch us on YouTube. So, um, yeah, big thanks to everyone again. Huge thanks, Josh. Thanks to Jose. And thanks to you all for tuning in on your Saturday night or whenever you're watching this in all its full 4K glory. We hope to see you next time. And until then, have a great night. Good everyone. Good night.

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