Transcription
Breaking news tonight. The Epstein files release. It's a big hoax. Lies, lies, lies. Why won't Bondi release the files? What is she hiding? This, as Maxwell gives a statement to the feds, is nothing but a pack of lies, including, wait for it, that Jeffrey Epstein couldn't sleep with adult women because of a heart condition. This is why he is charged with trafficking. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
[Music]
Now we've got the administration telling us, "Look the other way. We got orange blobs. We got a guy who looks like, you know, he supposedly orange paper towels." Please, there are probably hundreds of people who needed Jeffrey Epstein gone for multiple reasons. There's so much happening in the Jeffrey Epstein case. He is haunting us from the great beyond. Actually, it's not the great beyond. I know where he is. He's having dinner with Satan tonight. That said, why can't we get our mits on the Epstein files? Gelain Maxwell, his hench person, his billub has been transferred to a cushy dormatory style jail. And she gives hours and hours of statements. All of them a pack of lies. Is she trying to curry favor to pave the way to a pardon? Well, speaking of her lies, I want you to hear one right off the top. Listen.
So, um, there's been um a lot of conversations about whether Mr. Epstein maintained like a a list of people, like a a book of of famous people that he knew. um like a it's called a black book or a client list or a list. Did you know of the existence of any such list?
There is no list. We'll start with that. The genesis of that story I can actually trace for you from its absolute inception if that is what you're interested in. Well, first, first, you know, to to be short, there is no list. There's no client list. Nothing like that.
No, there is nothing like that that you know that obviously during the time that you were with Mr. Epstein and even in the 2000s when you were around less frequently, you never observed or you never saw any sort of list or black book or a list of individuals who um, you know, linked to certain massuses or anything like that.
Absolutely. No, there is no list. There is no. I'm not aware of any blackmail. I I never heard. I never heard that. I never saw it and I never I never imagined it.
Don't fall for that posh Brit accent. There you hear Maxwell swearing there is no client list. What do we mean by client list? Jeffrey Epstein had a worldwide trafficking ring, right? He flew little girls from all over the world, Turkey, France, the stands to an island that we know of where they were put off the plane onto a ferry and fied to a private island. In the US Virgin Islands where we have jurisdiction. Now, why is there a parade of 12-year-old little girls going off ferries to Epstein's mansion, which is miles of water away from the shore? One little girl, and it's been documented, tried to swim off the island and get back to shore, but she couldn't. So the clients are the men that came to be with those children. Now you hear Gileian Maxwell saying there is no such thing. Well, guess what? The US Attorney General, the US Attorney General for our whole nation says she's got the client list right there on her desk. Listen.
The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen? It's sitting on my desk right now to review. Um, that's been a directive um by President Trump.
I'm going to need to hear that again. That is from our friends at Fox News, our friend John Roberts. Okay. Maxwell saying there is no such thing. Bonnie saying, "It's right here on my desk, people, and we're going to release it." Well, they haven't released it yet. What are they hiding? And at the core of this are little girls, now adults, still waiting on justice. Joining me, renowned psychoanalyst, Dr. Bethany Marshall, author of Dealbreaker. You can see her on Peacock and she is at drbethanymarshall.com. You know, Dr. Bethany, I have dealt with a lot of child victims, a lot of victims. And yes, they grow up and if you were walking down the street, you would know that they were any different from everybody else, but they carry with them. It's an emotional handicap. They are never the same again, much less when their own government covers it up.
Nancy, they carry around profound shame and guilt. And when I say shame, I'm talking about a deep underlying feeling that they are cut off from the love of the community, without support, without protection, and that they can never trust again, and that there will never be reconciliation. And in many ways, these feelings are true. They're not just made up.
In a case like this, when when Gillan Maxwell says there's no little black book, okay, there's a purple book. Okay, there's a rolodex. You can't tell me there's not a manifest that they had for the planes that the Lolita Express didn't have a list of passengers that went there. You can't tell me that those billions in transfers to Russia had recipients bank accounts, people managing those accounts, these women who feel ashamed, been cut off from love, feel that way for a reason because we as a society, we're still playing into this sham, this lie that Gillan Maxwell is telling. You know, the lies that she is spewing goes on and on. And you know, let me go to a veteran trial lawyer. And I don't. I'm not ready to fight with you just yet, Troy Leighton, but I think you're going to agree with me. Troyce Leighton is, as I said, a veteran trial lawyer joining us out of LA. Tried a ton of cases and won a lot of them. Troy, have you ever noticed that when people are trying to tell a lie, um, I'm thinking of defendants. You're probably going to think of somebody else. But and you just sit there quietly and they look at you and then they just keep talking and the lie gets bigger and bigger and more and more elaborate. It's very hard for a died-in-the-wool liar to just make it short and sweet. They just have to elaborate, which I love. Have you ever noticed that?
I think even uh the great author Shakespeare noticed it when he said, "The lady doth protest too much." Uh, liars tend to spin uh long yarns and create even uh seemingly unimportant details in order to make the lie more believable. And uh, we may have seen that uh in action here during uh Galain Maxwell's long interview with the uh assistant uh attorney general.
Now, um, Troy Leighton, of course, not to split hairs or parse words, but I believe I've corrected you on this before. The quote is, "Me thinks thou doth protest too much." It's not just women, Troy Slate, you misogynist. And that is from Hamlet. Just future reference.
Actually, keep saying it incorrectly so I can keep. I'll review. I'll review my Shakespeare. You do that. In the meantime, I think you're absolutely correct. They can't stop themselves. And I'm getting back to Gileain Maxwell. So, she starts off by saying there is no client list. What client list? Well, now she goes into a lot of detail. Brace yourself, Sllayton. Listen to this.
So, the original statement that Brad Edwards makes that's in the documents contemporaneously is that it's pieces of paper that Alfredo has. It then morphs into something that Alfredo took a book that Alfredo took from Epstein's computer. But there's no computer. I know certainly not in 2005 when this was allegedly taken that came out as a book. And then it morphed into at the civil time of my civil cases into a book that was taken from my computer. And then it morphed into the southern district of New York as a combination list of minor Epstein. That is a a metamorphosis through documents that you can trace.
What in the world is she trying to say? Uh, joining me, Crime Stories investigative reporter Sydney Sumner. Here is Yolain Maxwell. Why they moved her to a cushy dormatory style jail? It's not really even a jail. It's more like a camp. Uh, is she trying to cover for Trump or cover for Clinton? I don't know. Maybe neither of those. But she's definitely trying to get a pardon. And here she's saying there is no client list. There is no little black book. In other words, there are no John's. That's what we call them on the street, John's. So, she's trying to explain the genesis of the little black book, the clientless story. And she's talking about someone named Alfredo Rodriguez. And isn't that Epstein's butler?
Yes, of course he had a butler. Explain what she's saying, Sydney Sumar.
Right. So, here she's saying that the purported client list that everyone is freaking out about, wants to see, doesn't really exist. But to get Blanch up to speed on where exactly this rumor came from, she goes all the way back to 2009 when Epstein has just been criminally investigated the first time and civil suits are now coming out against him. So, Maxwell claims that this law firm that was a little bit shady took on a lot of these um Epstein victim civil suit cases. And one of those attorneys was working with Epstein's butler to get evidence against him. So, that's where Alfredo Rodriguez comes in. And so what they claimed, what this lawyer claimed to be a client list was really just an address book that the butler went through and apparently circled or marked people who were involved in this trafficking ring.
So Maxwell gets through this long-winded explanation. Yeah. What's wrong with that? Bottom line boiling it down is that a previous civil lawyer went through an address book, a 500-person address book that belonged. Oops, there's the Chromos and the Kennedys on there. I doubt that they were visiting Lolita Island. So my point is, there are regular contacts in there along with who many believe are clients. Let me say, in a nice way, clients. So there's a 500-person address book and the butler who knew Epstein really well, who was there day-to-day, who saw who was coming and going, went through and marked the names of the men involved in the trafficking ring. Okay, sounds like evidence to me.
So first of all, Gileain Maxwell, in her effort to get a pardon, says there is no client list. Let's hear what else she has to say. Maxwell denies every aspect of Virginia Jafrey's victimization. Says she never recruited massuses. Maxwell insists Jafrey is lying about with Prince Andrew. Maxwell says Jafrey used evidence from flight logs to fabricate the story, saying she was busy with her mom's 80th birthday. Her home in London was not a suitable venue for royalty. And Jafrey's description of her bathroom where Prince Andrew allegedly her was missing unforgettable details.
When you were just asked about the photo, you said you actually thought the photo was fake. Do you think it was just misdated or do you think it's a literally a fake photo?
I believe it's literally a fake photo. Um, why do you think that? Um, well, first of all, I don't remember it. We'll start.
But but Okay. But the outfit I'm wearing Yeah. is the outfit from my mom's birthday party. So, but you don't have any. Do you dispute that they've met each other? Do you know whether they've met each other?
I do not know that they met.
Okay. So, so you not only. So you think the photograph is fake, but you also are not even positive they actually ever met each other?
I am not.
So, you don't have a specific recollection of kind of being at an event or a party or your apartment or your, you know, your flat in London with Prince Andrew and Pepsi.
Think about it. What if you could delay your next two mortgage payments? It's not just a dream. That would equal money in your pocket and much-needed financial breathing room. If you're interested, go to American Financing now. With rising costs, groceries, gas, it's so easy to feel overwhelmed. And many people are now relying on credit cards. But there is a better solution. American Financing can help you use your home equity to pay off debt and saved. Their salary-based mortgage consultants helping homeowners save an average of $800 a month. Add it up. That's like getting a $10,000 raise. Call toll-free 866-880-344 or go to americanfinancing.net/nancy. That's 866-880-344.
So in addition to Gileian Maxwell stating there is no client list when Bonnie says it's right here on my desk, people, she now has disavowed everything that Virginia said about being abused not only by Epstein but by Prince Andrew. Then why Tissa Tales joining me? Uh, investigative reporter, star of Tisa Tales on YouTube. Did Prince Andrew enter into a 20-plus million dollar settlement to shut Jafrey up if he's totally innocent? Uh, and and hey, I want you to hear one more thing. Hold on, Tissa. You're going to love this. Did you hear Gileain Maxwell saying, "That couldn't possibly have been a real photo because that's the outfit I wore to my mom's birthday." Well, she took a page out of Andrew's book. Remember? He said, "Well, that couldn't possibly be real because those are my traveling clothes." I guess he has a different set of clothes from everyday to travel. In fact, let's listen to Prince Andrew speaking to the BBC.
I don't believe it's a picture of me in London because when I go out to when I go out in London, I wear a suit and a tie. That's what I would describe as those are my traveling clothes. That's me. But but whether that's my hand or whether that's um the position I I but I don't I have simply no recollection of a photograph ever being taken.
That's who our friends at BBC and Troyce Leighton. That is exactly why defendants are told, "Keep your yap shut. Exercise your right to the Fifth Amendment." because Andrew uh just. It it got worse and worse and worse. So now he's saying those are his traveling clothes and he would never have worn those to a get-together. And that is him, but it's not his hand. He later says that he was there, but he doesn't recall being upstairs. So how does he even know that is the upstairs if he's never been to the upstairs? I mean, his lies get worse and worse, and both he and Elaine Maxwell state this couldn't be real because they've got on the wrong clothes.
The biggest nightmare for a an attorney, either in the criminal realm or even in the civil realm, is having their client uh give interviews and multiple interviews where they're explaining uh minute details that will always be used against them. Everything that somebody says, whether it's in court or not, if they're a party, can be used against them. It's not hearsay when it's parties to a lawsuit. And yeah, that's why it's so important and I always recommend to my clients that they exercise their right to remain silent and they don't get diarrhea of the mouth. Shut the up. Did here. Yes.
Okay. Now, speaking of, "Yes, that's me, but I've got on the wrong clothes and that's not my hand, and I've never been to that part of Gla Maxwell's home." And she's saying, "Those are the wrong clothes. I would never have worn that." Well, Andrew says, "It's so much better than I can listen."
The photograph is taken upstairs, and I don't think I ever went upstairs um uh in Galain's house.
That from our friends at BBC. Okay, Tissa Tails. I was asking you, Galileain Maxwell goes on and on and on ad nauseam with some crazy excuse about the butler. Okay, right there, that's getting three inches up my tailpipe with the accent and the butler and the this and the that. I just can't relate to that. But that aside, she's claiming she never introduced Andrew to Virginia. Hello, news flash. Nearly brought down a monarchy and there was a 20-plus million dollar settlement to keep Virginia Jafrey quiet. You know how ill the Queen must have been? You know, she was a very frugal lady to pay over 20 mil because of Andrew being with a minor. And now V. And now Yolaina Maxel wants us to believe her. Not only does she want us to believe her, she is literally trying to rewrite history in real time. It's funny to me that something I can understand that this happened 20 years ago, 50 years ago. This literally just happened a few years ago. It is fresh in everyone's mind. This was a campaign promise. And they sat there in the most bumbling manner, almost like they were two kids that got caught sneaking out to go to the neighbor's party.
Uh, so you never knew him. Uh, no, I never. I never knew him.
So you're saying even the way the questions were presented, so you never knew him. You never said, and like you said, Nancy, magically, she doesn't know Bill Clinton. She doesn't. She barely knows Jeffrey Epstein. She barely knows Prince Andrew. As a matter of fact, he. I think Epstein was dating Princess Diana. She literally was throwing a whole pot of spaghetti.
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Stop right there. It's one thing for Gileain Maxwell to drag Princess Diana into this and the Queen. It's another thing for you to do it, little lady. Now, go wash your mouth out with soap. We're not hearing anything about Princess Diana.
Hey, Dr. Bethany, I got to throw you something else while I let Troy Sllayton mull on this one. Galileain Maxwell also says, now the whole point of me showing many of her most notable lies or so many is to say that everything she's saying about a client list, everything she's saying about Epstein not trafficking, uh, that there were no clients coming to the island or to New York or to Florida. They're all lies and there is a cover-up. And at the heart of it are girls as young as 12 years old that were trafficked. Bethany, that's what this is about. And we're relying on Gileain Maxwell to tell the truth, who's like dying to get a pardon. She'll say anything.
To Dr. Bethany. She also said, wait for it, death. Dr. Bethany, that she only had with Epstein once and then for a really long time. No. Because of his heart condition.
I don't even know where to start with that one, Nancy.
Okay. Well, first of all, look, keep in mind the mindset of a. There are two types. There's the fixated and there's the regressed. The fixated only ever wants children and then the regressed will sometimes choose adults but under times of stress they will gravitate towards children. Both types, Nancy, are incredibly childlike. Our children themselves. That's why they are attracted to. That's why Andrew and Dylan Maxwell are lying as Cisatel said it like two little six or seven-year-olds who snuck out to the party next door and now they're covering up to their parents. They have a childlike mindset. What's scary though is that it's cloaked under all this money and sophistication and power and network of other people. So they pass as adults in society, but there's proclivities and the way they operate mentally are like children. And you know what they're not mentioning, Nancy? There's no fond or concerned or empathic recollection of the victims. If Gillan Maxwell would just say once, "Poor uh Virginia Jeff, I I can't believe, you know, that she has gone through what she has gone through or God rest her soul or I hear she's no longer with us." You know, there's not one empathic mention of the victims. It's as if the victims have been off the face of the earth.
You missed this, Dr. Bethany. Uh, I spoke well over an hour to author Barry Lavine, who has tracked billions of dollars of Epstein and interviewed hundreds of people to figure this whole thing out. Gain Maxwell actually said, "Hey, I'm going to throw this to Joe Scott Morgan." Uh, Jillian Maxwell actually said about the girl victims, "They're just trash. All those girls are just trash."
So, Joseph Scott Morgan joining me, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University. I want to hear your thoughts.
Yeah, we see this with people that are they have serious psychopathy, Nancy. We cover these cases all the time where, you know, we have these individuals that will kill subjects and kind of dump them off on the side of the road. I know on Body Bags with my podcast, we cover these cases incessantly. Uh, where people just discard others like they have no meaning. But Nancy, I want to go back to something real quick that does have meaning. And you'll understand where I'm going with this because you've questioned people. In the very first audio clip of this deposition, did you notice how she makes a statement and she was not prompted by counsel, uh, she says, "There is no blackmail list." Blackmail never came up. She's the one that actually introduced that term into that initial conversation. And you know and I know that when you're speaking to people and they have their mind in a particular area and I'm thinking right now, very nefarious. Blackmail list didn't come up. So she's thinking about this and then all of a sudden she verbalizes it. Uh, and also this idea of dehumanizing individuals as well. How do those two things come together?
Well, it's all about her. It's all about him and the world that they lived in and inhabited. And I still submit to you that she's trying to protect him in death. She's trying to protect herself and she's trying to protect the reputation. And Lord only knows who else is on the blackmail list, which I think actually exists.
When you were just asked about the photo, you said you actually thought the photo was fake. Do you think it was just misdated or do you think it's a literally a fake photo?
I believe it's literally a fake photo. Um, why do you think that? Um, well, first of all, I don't remember it. We'll start.
Right. Okay. But the outfit I'm wearing Yeah. is the outfit from my mom's birthday party. So, but you don't have any. Do you dispute that they've met each other? Do you know whether they've met each other?
I do not know that they met.
Okay. So, so you not only. So you think the photograph is fake, but you also are not even positive they actually ever met each other?
I know.
So, you don't have a specific recollection of kind of being at an event or a party or your apartment or your, you know, your flat in London with Prince Andrew.
And [Music] please join us on our mission to find missing people, especially children, to solve unsolved homicides. If you're on the go, catch us on your favorite podcast app where you can get all of our content where we, in our own way, seek justice.
Why is Pam Bondi, the US Attorney General, affecting a hoax on us, the American people? She swore these files would be released. And now there's a political spin on it, that nobody cares, that uh the these young victims are all collaborating to somehow smear the administration. They were 12 years old when this happened. They are not in this for politics. They have been begging for justice for years. Uh, Gileain Maxwell, are we going to believe her? She denies there's a client list. She denies there was trafficking. She denies everything that Virginia said. And by the way, she was convicted for trafficking. She is denying the. She said that didn't happen. She's denying every single thing about this case. But I want you to hear proof that that photo was real. Despite Galain Maxwell's insistence the photo of her, Virginia Guay, and Prince Andrew is a flat-out fake, the Mail on Sunday says they saw the proof it is real. Mail on Sunday photographer Michael Thomas took the pictures that first ran in 2011 of the original printed photo. Thomas saw Walgreens receipt for the prints from a location just a few miles from Guayy's West Palm Beach home. And now nearly 15 years later, Thomas realized he also photographed the back of the print. The back of the photo is stamped with the print date March 13, 2001, just 3 days after Guay was trafficked to the prince in London.
To hear Virginia Jerafrey. She and Jeffrey Epstein sang in the Catholic school choir together. Uh, Sydney Sumar, what is the significance of the Mail on Sunday photographer Michael Thomas who took the pictures that first ran in 2011?
Well, Thomas didn't realize that in addition to the 30-odd photos he took of the front of the original printed photo, he also took photos of the back of that print. And Thomas says this was a normal 4x6 printed photo. And the timestamp on the back of that print shows that it was printed at Walgreens, a 1-hour development, and it has the date that this photo was developed just 3 days after Jafrey says she was trafficked to Prince Andrew in London for the first time. So, it really gives credibility to her story. And Thomas also saw receipts from where she got this photo developed from a Walgreens just a few miles from her home in West Palm Beach. It was also taken. The photos were shown to experts who have worked at Walgreens for years and years developing photos and they recognize that type of paper and say that is the paper that would have been used during that time. So this photo really, really gives credibility to Gru Freay's story and the fact that there is no way this print could have been faked. It's it was not digitally manipulated and this proves that.
Danny Pinter is joining us, senior VP, director of law center, National Center on Exploitation. Danny, thank you for being with us. For some reason, Gillian Maxwell is doing contortions, backflips, somersaults to explain away everything, including trafficking. And reminder, she was convicted children and them. All right, so that's who she is. Them for Epstein. I can't think of any good reason that the US Attorney General refuses to release these files. There was just another recent hoax where files were released, but less than 3% of the files were anything new. They were flight logs. I mean, it's all a big lie. I don't get it. I'm not letting go of it, Danny.
Me neither, Nancy. This is obviously PR for pardon. And Gillian Maxwell is a court-proven liar. Why are we asking her opinion on anything? Why are we listening to her instead of the victims? And it's so disgusting that she calls Virginia a liar now that she's no longer with us. Meanwhile, Galileain Maxwell herself settled a defamation lawsuit with Jupy. Why did she settle if apparently everything she says is lies? It's honestly just disgusting.
There is more. There is one thing on which I agree with Gain Maxwell. It's about Epstein's. It was no. Listen, investigation about that. Um, do you. So you think he was. He was. He did not die by. Given all the things we just talked about?
I do not believe he died by.
And do you believe that um, do you have any speculation or view of who killed him?
I no, I don't.
And I asked that because if you don't believe that there's any truth to the allegations of blackmail or um that he had kind of a list or that he had reasons to um have people hate him. Um, why would somebody kill him in prison?
Well, in prison where I am, they will kill you or they will pay somebody. Can pay a prisoner to kill you for $25 worth of commissary. There's about the going rate for a hit with a lock today.
Okay, she's uh talking bass backwards again. She's saying, "No, I'm going to go to Joe Scott on that." But Tissa tells, she's also saying, "Why would anybody kill him now? He's in jail. I mean, they'll kill you over $25." What? See, she just shot herself in the foot because he was about to go to trial and was in a perfect position to rat out very powerful and wealthy people to save his own skin. The perfect time to kill him. Not only the perfect time to kill him, but like you said, what is actually going on? When you listen to this, it is literally like she is in an episode of Mad Libs. You're telling me now the going rate for a hit in jail is $25 on the commissary. The fact that she is doing everything she can, like you said, to hide the truth. You have these softball questions, basically. All she has to do is yes or no. You said you didn't do this. You said you didn't know. And we are sitting here watching her spin tails. When you listen to what she just said, the recording you just said, she can't even believe herself. You hear her say, uh, for $25. I guess what little bit of shame and guilt and self-awareness came up in that moment when she realized how ridiculous it is. Again, like all the guests have said and how you have said a million times, there is no regret. There's no remorse. And at the end of the day, there even on the government side, which is really scary, there is no mention of the thousands of alleged victims and confirmed that she left in her wake. Again, I keep going back to this. Why is this liar being allowed in on actual legal terms to rewrite history when we have a whole trial proving that almost everything she says besides what her name is, that the only thing she told the truth is 100% a lie. It's shocking and it's scary, but at this point, I'm side-eyeing the government. What is going on? What does she have on these people?
Joining me, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator with over a thousand death investigations under his belt, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a hit podcast series, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, he absolutely did not commit. Uh, you believe that. I believe that. Dr. Michael Boden believes that. Esteemed medical examiners from across the country believe it. In a nutshell, why do we know he did not commit?
Uh, because the hyoid is fractured is the biggest is the biggest indicator for us. Uh, rarely do you have fractured hyoids uh when it comes to hanging.
Okay. And and here's here's another thing. You see the greater horn of the hyoid is fractured right there. That bit of bone that's broken away. Um, that's significant, Nancy. And here's why. Uh, the noose in hangings generally don't go up as high up in the neck uh to to come in contact with the area surrounding the hyoid. So this is going to be superior to the to where the noose was actually positioned. Look, if you don't believe me, 60 Minutes, put the pictures out there. Go look for yourself. He has marks on his neck, Nancy, that run parallel to his shoulders. They don't go up underneath his chin up to where the hyoid acts as the anchor for the tongue. It's the only non-articulating bone in the human body. It's fractured. In addition to that, the the thyroid cartilage right here, you feel where the Adam's apple is on either side of it, there's actually fracturing in the in in the cartilage there. That's significant because that means that direct pressure would have had to have been applied here and also here. Above that area and then you've got a ligature mark that is inferior to that. It runs parallel to the shoulders with hangings. We normally see it come to a V. This is in forensics. This is what we call tenting feature. T N T I N G. That means it supports it like this. It goes up. So an individual will hang like this. That ain't happening here. It doesn't appear that way. And I think that that I don't. I would never presume to put words in Michael Biden's mouth, but just reading the room, I think that that's probably the conclusion he came to. Uh, additionally, for me, something that really stands out, Nancy, at the base of his neck on the posterior side where the neck dumps into the shoulder, there is a contusion back there. It's kind of uh, it's an irregular shape. It's a bruise. It got there. That's something you don't see with hangings. Where in the world did this thing come from? And that's an ante-mortem or before death insult that he has right here.
Well, I think they were friendly like people are in social settings. I don't. I don't think they were close friends or I certainly never witnessed the president in any of. I don't recall ever seeing him in his house, for instance. I actually never saw the president in any type of massage setting. I never witnessed the president in any inappropriate setting in any way. The president was never inappropriate with anybody in the times that I was with him. He was a gentleman in all respects.
Do you know whether, for example, President Clinton ever received a massage?
I don't believe he did.
And what makes you say you don't believe he did?
Well, because I don't. That's a good question. Uh, the time that Epstein and President Clinton spent together, the only times I believe, well, obviously they traveled. That you know, victim went on the plane 26 times, whatever that would be one journey. So they spent time on the plane together and I don't believe there was ever a massage on the plane. So that would have been the only time that I think that President Clinton could have even received a massage and he didn't because I was there.
Okay, so according to Gain Maxwell, Trump is a gentleman and Clinton flew on Epstein's private plane 26 times. Okay, you know, I'm not going to decipher that right now because this is what I'm worried about. The files release hoax. I want the names of all the clients that were lured by Epstein to meet up and more with girls as young as 12 years old, flown in from around the world. We were told there was going to be a big data dump right in the last three business days. But what exactly was in that data dump? Listen.
Bondi delivered on a promise to turn over Epstein files to House Oversight, who says they are working on delivery for public release, but the committee is warning to manage expectations. Representative Roana claims of thousands of pages of documents the committee received, less than 3% are never before seen. Representative Summer Lee claims the only new disclosure are flight log locations from 2000 to 2014, making up fewer than a thousand pages of the documents. The rest is apparently recycled information already made public.
Sydney Sar, what is happening? Why are they lying to us? What are they trying to cover up? What are they trying to keep secret?
Uh, that was a campaign promise. Bondi has been promising it day after day after day. Now they want us to just stop talking about it. They actually said that stop talking about it. So they have this huge data dump of the Epstein files, but there's nothing new in there. It's stuff they've already released. They are sticking with that release statement from July saying they have reviewed all of the documents and everything that can and should be made public has already been made public. And that just really does not make sense. I think who they're trying to protect here are all of the people that have been named in conjunction. So, not that they've actually done any wrongdoing, but their name came up early in the investigation all the way back in 2007. Whether police ever did anything with that, we don't know. So, I I think that they might be protecting holes in the investigation, things that they missed. I mean, there was 10 years in between the first and second attempted prosecution of Epstein, and there's no telling what he did in between those times. At this point, Friend is worried that they are protecting themselves from things they should have done in the original investigation that weren't done. So, unfortunately, maybe what we're seeing maybe is the extent of the file and there should have been more there and there isn't.
Okay. Well, hold on just a moment. That's not true because we were told at the beginning about voluous videos from all of Epstein's homes and mansions, tens and tens of thousands of documents. We've interviewed the civil attorney for at least nine of the little girl victims who knows of corporate clients that Epstein serviced with these little girls. I mean, there is so much there. I'm very curious, Dr. Bethany Marshall, a why the cover-up? What could be so bad? I mean, I guess they think we're going to forget about it and just go away, but Dr. Bethany, doesn't this trigger more feelings of helplessness amongst victims, now adults?
That's one thing that victims have told me universally, separated in time and space, that it wasn't just the physical assault. It was the feeling of helplessness that just would never go away. Nancy, it's the helplessness, the guilt, the shame. But there's one other layer to this, Nancy, that is so profound in my mind. Those girls likely have been stalked by Gillian, by Epstein in order to procure more over the years. And what what tools do perpetrators use to stalk their victims? They use videos. They use photo photos. They use all that material that they gathered while the victim was under their roof so they can say, "Hey, little girl, you're not going to return my call. I'll release these videos to the public." So, Nancy, name one one that we've covered that has not videotaped, um, audio taped, taken pictures of them having their victims. Name one. They're they're not. They hold on to those videos to stalk the victims and for content so that they can relive the crime. So you cannot tell me that there is not a treasure trove of data out there.
Okay. So Gillan Maxwell's statements, it's just a word salad. That is all it is. It means nothing. She says one thing, then she contradicts herself. I I don't even care about the log anymore. I want the photos. I want the videos. I want all that material that they held on to and enjoyed for all those years so I can see the faces, not just the written names on a plain log. I want the faces and the bodies with those girls. I want that the girl's bodies redacted out and those faces released to the public so we can see for ourselves as we wait for justice to unfold in the release of the Epstein files. God willing, we remember an American hero, Sergeant Christopher Wilson, Texas Parks and Wildlife, killed in the line of duty after 17 years of LE, leaving behind four children, Colby, Tristan, Tyler, and Haley. American hero, Sergeant Christopher Wilson. Thank you to our guests for being with us, but especially to you for being with us tonight. Nancy Grace signing off. I'll see you tomorrow night and until then, good night, friend.
[Music]
Please join us on our mission to find missing people, especially children, to solve unsolved homicides. If you're on the go, catch us on your favorite podcast app, where you can get all of our content, where we, in our own way, seek justice.