Property Empire To Survival Mode: Ste Hamilton’s Comeback Story

There's two sides to every story. Now, Steve's gonna tell us in this podcast, he's getting a lot of [ __ ] at the minute, but there is two sides to every story. Steve, welcome to the show, mate.

Appreciate you having me on. Thank you.

My pleasure. Thank you for getting back to me so quick as well, mate.

Um, yeah, it was nice of you to reach out and obviously um had a lot of people reach out on podcast, saw yours, um, made the right decision because this setup, uh, and the way I spoke to you beforehand, um, yeah, I've definitely made the right decision coming here.

Cheers, mate. And I appreciate the feedback. We've um we're not actually officially open yet, but we've um put a lot of money into it, a lot of effort, and it's um hopefully it's going to pay off. But um we're going to go through all of the [ __ ] that you're going through. And just so everyone knows, Steve's openly said absolutely no question could be asked. He's going to answer everything as openly and honestly as possible. But I think before we get into that, I think we need to know for anyone that doesn't know the watches, who is Steve Hamilton?

I'm just a a lad from a council estate who had a dream. Um chased that dream, was absolutely flying at one stage. And I mean flying like I was I was doing things that most people could not do. Um and then just like any story, there's always a part where it falls apart. I believe from what I read about the people who are super successful in the world. And we hit a stumbling block about 18 months ago. When I say a stumbling block, I'm talking, you know, couple of million quid, not just, you know, a one or two developments that have just gone a bit wrong.

Um, and now I'm in the it's kind of like survival mode. Um, most people would have already gone from the situation and quit or something like that. But no, I'm I'm very resilient. Um, I like to stand on the word of what I've given out to people. I hate letting people down. Um, I have a lot of empathy. Um I h I have good morals and I have to fix things. So yeah um chased my dream, achieved my dream and now fighting to keep my dream alive.

So before we get into that, what got you into property in the first place? What was the driver for you?

Wow. This is Yeah, my story is a little bit wild. You won't have enough time on the podcast to hear it. Um my mom's family are all Irish.

Okay.

My dad's um British Asian, so he was born here, but his mom and dad weren't. Um mom and dad um obviously got together. Family didn't like it. Granddad was not. No, no, no, no, no. Um your white, he's brown, we're not having it. Um so I grew up with my mom's family. Um all from a counselor state, all on benefits. No one really had a job in my mom's family ever. No one from three sisters, a brother, no one had any jobs. So we grew up in that environment which was a great environment. It was there's no difference from growing up with wealth or council because you only know what you know so you don't miss anything. Um lost my granddad at 16 just under 16 a couple of months before my birthday two months who was like you know a good father figure to me. I lived with my nana and granddad. Um lost my mom when I was 23 from left school at 15 years old. Never had a job up until I was 27 years old.

Not even like a part-time job when you're at school or whatever.

No. uh paper. Um

job.

Yeah, if that's what you want to call it. I had a job. Yeah. Um but I never really had a job. Um

my dad had a uni where he had um my dad was very successful actually in a hish company. I used to go and do a couple of days here and there but it's not work. It's dad. Um he was very successful actually to be fair. My dad was very clever, intelligent man. And then lost my mom when I was 23. got an offer of a job at 27 years old from a very intelligent guy again called Sha um who owned a law firm in Birmingham and that's where my life changed from 27 years old. I started to learn how to do business, how to work, how to save money, you know, I was involved with people who were from very wealthy backgrounds. Um, and when I was 31, so 11 years ago, I bought my first ever berlet property, £48,000, two-bedroom house in Willenol. And I bought it cash because the three years that I'd worked at the law firm with Shan, I managed to save just over 50 grand.

Wow.

Um, but that was because I was working seven days a week >> and I had nothing else to spend money on. When I first got a little bit of money, I went out and bought every pair of trainer, tracksuit, jeans, everything you always want because you didn't have any money. But then when you're around these people, you start to understand certain things. Um, and I bought my first um two-bedroom berlet. Bought in my personal name.

Are you led to regret that?

Yeah. I didn't know anything about limited companies. Didn't know anything. Didn't have any advice. Didn't know what to do. I rented it out. I think 600650 a month. I don't know what it was at the exact time. Um, but I actually thought I was Donald Trump. um kid from a cancer state got a berlet

felt like you hit the big time

I really really did that's genuine like I'm not even exaggerating that I really believe that I was the man um not with an arrogant chip on my shoulder and nothing it was just a huge achievement from somebody who's told you get your residential and if you get one bite tolet you're set for life cuz that's the mentality of council estate that I grew up on one house one b tolet that's your pension um so I was like over the moon um and that's how my property journey began

wow so you bought bought your first property, you paid cash for it.

How did you go from that into obviously your education pathways and everything you do now? Cuz that's a massive leap, man.

Yeah, it was crazy. Um, I've got a very good friend called Dr. Prasad. Um, who obviously my nephew's been around a very long time as well. Um, and Dr. Prasad has seen my journey from nothing to doing something. Now his whole family of property, all of them, everybody in his family's property. His dad was the first billion pound GP in the West Midlands. Um his dad had a portfolio of I don't even know the numbers. It was outrageous. His sister's huge into property. She owns one of the biggest houses in in um she owns um a hall. It's one of the biggest houses um in the area. and her husband's also got properties all around Canary Wolf and everywhere. And then his other um cousin, Orthopedics, got like a portfolio of like 60 or 70 houses.

Wow.

So he said to me, he was like, "Oh, you bought your first property. It's very smart move." Um and I explained to him how I bought it. And he said to me,

"It's a bit stupid, isn't it?" And I was like, "What do you mean?" He was like, "Well, you could have put a 25% deposit down and had more money left. You could add value and refinance it." And and I was like, "You need to just explain all this to me." And literally within a 25m minute conversation, he explained it twice and then you know when the light bulb

Yeah.

That's when the light bulb and I contacted a broker literally within I think 3 hours of leaving the meeting with him. I mean it was a coffee. It wasn't me. Um and I was like I've got a house. Give the address. What can you do? And it was like 18 months after we bought it. Um and it was valued at like 75

75 grand.

Um, and they was like, "You can refinance it and pull out 42 grand or 46 grand." I was like, "It's nearly all mine." And they was like, "Yeah, yeah." And that's the light bulb moment. And that's exactly how it started. Uneducated, didn't have a clue,

didn't know what I was doing, felt like I was on top of the world,

had the right person around me who explained some things to me. And that's when you start researching a little bit then as well. Um, yeah. But I always knew from a child that every single person that I used to I was obsessed with cars.

So I used to determine wealth with cars, which is the stupidest thing in the world because you can live at your mom's house and have a Lamborghini now. 30 grand deposit, three grand a month. Anyone can have a Lamborghini. The real way of telling someone's wealth is the house that they actually live in.

Yeah.

I didn't know that back then. I judged it on appearance instead of what's behind the scenes. Um, so I used to look at people with all these really nice cars and stuff and I was very inquisitive and I always used to ask people what they do for a living and 90% of people used to say, "Oh, I do property or some sort of ownership of something like that." And I always knew it was the way forward. I just didn't know how. I think in my opinion the way the system in this country in particular is you go to school, you get a job, you put into a pension, you put money into savings, you have one holiday per year and then you retire at 65 or whatever and then you have 10 12 years like living off a mediocre pension. And I think you had a similar light bulb moment to me in the sense of you need to create cash flowing assets that are going to grow in capital appreciation over time.

Yeah. But I mean your rise to where you've got like just just from going from one property to I think you said you had in your education program over 4,000 members. Did you say

four and a half thousand members?

Yeah.

How long did it take you to grow that?

Four years.

Wow.

Yeah. We was we was we it and it was all organic, believe it or not.

No paid ads, no nothing. I I only started paid ads like a a year in 2025, but the first three years was just my Instagram and YouTube. Um the paid ads came when I had like marketing teams start getting involved and you know I had staff of 15 at one stage,

15 members of staff.

Um and then you know when everybody has the input kind of lost control

that's what I did um instead of just doing what I did with my Isabella for the first three years on social media. Um, I started listening to people's advice. I was going against everything I preach um and teach. Don't take advice from someone who hasn't done what what you're trying to do.

Yeah.

I started listening. They was like, "Steve, you need to start paid ads." And I was thinking in my brain, "Yeah, yeah. Okay, go on. Put a grand or two grand a month behind it. Get the marketing team in. Give them three grand a month as well for their thingy and see what they can do." They wasn't performing. They didn't outsell my Instagram. And again, yeah, when I look back now in hindsight, some of the things I did in the last 18 months is just like that's not Ste. That's not me. That's not what I do. I'm somebody who's very headstrong. I'm not a genius by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not thick.

Yeah.

Um, didn't leave school with any qualifications or nothing, but I'm not stupid and I've done some very stupid things the last 18 months.

I think this is the beauty about property though, because you don't have to be a doctor or a lawyer, you know? You just need to have a structure and a system in place and stick to that.

Yeah.

And I think from what you've just said to me then you kind of you were flying, you've departed from it a little bit and then because you almost like you said you weren't yourself, things started going.

It's no one's fault. What's happened to me is no one's fault. There's not a singular person to blame. The only person that can take responsibility and blame is me. It's it's my fault. It's my fault for trusting people with positions of power that I shouldn't have put in positions of power because they didn't have experience.

Yeah.

So, the blame is me. It's not them. They were trying to do the best of their ability. My chief operating officers, my operations managers, my project managers, they were doing what they believe was the right thing. In hindsight, it was the worst things you could ever imagine. But in their eyes, it was the greatest thing ever because they're trying to do something that they're being paid to do. Um, so all the things that happened, it's it's no one's fault. It's my fault. Um, I take full responsibility and there's not no one to blame. So when I say like I was listening to people, that's my fault for listening to people. Putting people in power of giving them an open checkbook to go and pay builders half a million quid, that's my fault. Not looking at what's being done and not looking at the invoices and not doing the site checkups. Um, so so everything where it leads to today is all down on me. There's no one else to blame. Um, I'm not that guy who's going to go, "Oh my god, this is a sad story." Yeah, it's a bit of a shitty story.

Yeah. But the story will come good and when everybody sees this in 10 years, they'll be like, "He went through some [ __ ] didn't he?" So, yeah, it's all my fault. I'm to blame.

Do you not find though there's something very empowering and my mentor taught me this of when you're going through a [ __ ] period. A lot of people do the complete opposite of what you're doing. A lot of people do that. They look to blame someone and the wo is me card, but I find myself when I've gone through periods of [ __ ] in my life, there's something very empowering about going, do you know what? I [ __ ] up. All right. I had a team of people around me, but buck stops with me.

Yeah.

Um,

you're to blame.

Yeah.

Because you're the one who makes the decisions at the end of the day. It's your bank account. It's your money.

It's your it's your signature that signs it off. Yeah.

So, you can't blame the people around you cuz they don't know they're making mistakes.

They think they're doing it correctly.

It's And Yeah. And people who do blame other people, I get it. I understand it because it's the easiest way to to get yourself out of a situation that you're in by blaming someone else and being the victim. But victim mentality, name me a person who's ever been successful who has a victim mentality. I've never seen one.

No one.

Every single person that I've seen go to the top or go clear have always gone, I made some really bad decisions, you know, but I fix them.

I think for me with the level of like grief and aggro you get as well, you know, property is not an exact science. It's not reducing things on a conveyor belt in a factory. Things do go wrong. But people also need to understand that success isn't linear. You don't It's like a stocks and charts graph, isn't it? It doesn't go from there to there. There's peaks and troughs.

I've been there. You've been there. And I think you've been through the ringer more than most people. But in your opinion, what's working best for you at the minute? You decided to come back. You've decided to go public. you've decided to own your [ __ ] I think is the word, for lack of a better word.

Don't know the answer to that if I'm honest with you, because there has been times where I've sat there wanting to quit. I I I've been on the edge of my bed, head in the hands. You know, people don't understand the situation. I'm in they they see me living in a nice house. What people don't realize is before I came on social media in 2021, my nephew's sitting right there. I was already successful. Social media didn't make or break me. I already had the the Lamborghinis and the Ferraris and the Bentleys and the Range Rovers and lived in the beautiful houses and flew first class and stuff way before social media.

Um, so people just see social media and go, "Oh, he made it from social media or it was earn and learn partners that gave him money to do." No, no, always had this level of lifestyle since 201617 with what happened and the fact that I've let a lot of people down and I've got a lot of earn and learn partners out there that I still owe money to. Um, it weighs very heavy. Um, people don't understand because people just think, "Oh, we see him on social media. He's still going around doing his thing. He still lives in a nice big house. He still drives around in nice cars." No, no, I sold all my cars to pay people back. Every car I had I sold. Apart from my only falls and Aussies car. Um,

which wasn't actually that expensive from what you told me off camera compared to some of the cars you were driving around in.

No, no, no, it wasn't. So, I'm not going to lie. It's not. I mean, it's worth a few quid compared to some people say it's a lot of money, but in the grand scheme of things, it's not. I have Range Rovers, but they're on finance.

Yeah.

I The cars that I owned outright, the Urices, the Performantes, the Ferraris, they was gone soon as I knew I owed people money. um sold them instantly. I had probably, and this is no exaggeration, one of the best watch collections I think you would have ever seen. Um I had some unbelievable watches that I built up over over an 11-year period. Sold every single one of them to pay people back. Um I sold houses at at prices that you would think was absolutely ludicrous just to keep people happy. um where I was being advised by my legal team and my accountants to go for bankruptcy. Um from the minute that we sat down and you could see it was all I was being attacked and things were going wrong. People like you know there was doing the maths and stuff like right Steve that's your portfolio. There's x amount of millions in that portfolio there but in the market we're in and the way it's transitioning over the last 18 months you're going to take a 25% hit on that. Remember b toleta 7525. I don't think people understand this. When you say you want 50 60 houses, they start thinking, "Oh my god,

100 grand a house, 50." Yeah. Five million.

They don't realize there's like, you know, some of these houses are Yes. Some of them are 400 grand houses, some of them are 100 grand houses. So, when you start doing the maths on it, it's not And then another thing people just sell them. Doesn't work like that. There's early exit fees. There's there's um like there's there's a lot of things that when when it Oh, there's things that you couldn't even imagine. People don't get this because on social media you just see one person buy a house, do a flip, say they made 100 grand and then drive a Ferrari down the street. Okay, maybe I was a little bit, you know, flashy and stuff like that, but you know, like I said, it was way before social media. But the the point I'm trying to make is people from the outside see certain things and I was sitting on the edge of my bed with my head in my hands being advised by all my team around me to go bankrupt, which means the earn and learn partners that I have, which there's there's not a lot there's not a lot.

What what is the earn and learn for those?

So they are people who put money into projects with me but they learn. So they come on site, they meet the builders, they can they can help do things. So you know how people take investments.

Yeah.

And then it's like a a fixed return hands off. See you later. I created a program called the earn and learn. So

like a joint venture basically.

Yeah. But you're on site, you can get updates and stuff like that. What people didn't realize was, yes, right now I'm in the [ __ ] but what about the 300 partners in the previous who who all had successful journeys?

You're only as good as the last deal.

Exactly. So, none of the 300 other partners that had all gone through the successful transition of earn and learn partners have come out and gone, well, I did it with him and he was amazing and it was incredible. No one speaks up then because nobody wants to be attached to negativity. But sat there with my head in my hands on the edge of my bed, let down so many people. Um especially my family like my misses and my kids that was that was like the the thing because you know your children don't ask to be here you bring them into this world and my children don't deserve to live a mediocre life because I I I lived a very mediocre life and I know how difficult it is. You know when your mom's, you know, got the penny jar and we're counting for the bread on the Sunday cuz the benefits aren't being paid till Monday. I've been through that life. I I've lived that like genuinely. So, it was a really like difficult situation and everyone was like, "Steve, just go bankrupt. You can move this and you can do this and you can do that and yeah, you've let people down, but you can restart again in a year. You know, you're going to get a lot of criticism, but you just deflect it. How can I take money from you and then a year time come back on social media, owing you money, but knowing it's gone away and there's nothing you can do?"

Yeah. and carry on my life. Or walk down the street and go into a restaurant where you're sitting and you look at me and you go, "Your steak's 300 quid and you owe me 50 grand."

Yeah. Thought you were skin.

I can't do that. Like it's it's not in my it's not in my ethos. Like I would rather give someone £100 a week for the next 10 years just to say I'm so sorry for what happened, but I'm fixing it. Um, and I I I neglected everyone's advice. Like literally, I mean, like you have no idea the pressure that was being mounted on me by my team just to go bankrupt. Um, and I I made a I made a I sat with my devel. I said, "Listen, even if it takes me 3 years,

I can easily get out of this. Um, it's not the end of the world. It feels like the end of the world, but I can do it." And she was like, "Whatever you" I said, "Listen, even if we have to sell our house, you know, we'll get it back." And she was like, "Whatever you want." and she stood by me like she literally she could have walked.

Yeah.

She could have walked very easily like with the two kids gone away comfortable and she was like no no no we'll we'll we'll fix it.

I had a similar situation myself. We had our 10 year anniversary in 2023 and we had a big dinner dance thing booked, big celebration, 200 people invited for dinner and we were going for a tough time as a business at that point. But we wanted to celebrate our 10 year anniversary and no one knew, not even my business partner at the time, that a week before that dinner dance, I had to borrow 100 grand using my house as collateral to pay wages that month. And I had to stand in front of 200 people and say what a great year we were having. And I remember speaking to Diana about it and she was like, "Gregor, if this backfires, us and the kids are [ __ ] homeless." But she also said, "If there's anyone that can make it work, it's you." And it sounds like you've got a similar similar level of input.

Yeah. Because we built this together.

Yeah.

Before my children were born, Isabella was front and center with me and everything. Like every decision we made when we built the education company in 2021, March, front and center, she was there. And then when we got pregnant, um I'm not very good on on school systems and nurseries. And now I mean I I'll tell you why. I've got two people around me that I know. Um one's a raving lunatic and one's like a crackhead. They're both teachers.

Yeah.

And they deal with children

and I watch what they do on the weekends and on Monday morning they're in school teaching kids. They're people I know. I don't know anybody in these schools and I have a real fear of my children being in these places with people. Um so me and my Isabella made a choice that nursery we have to send our children to nursery. So my children do well my son at the minute does three days 3 hours a day. Um

how old is your son now?

Three years.

Okay.

Three-year-old. Um but that's only for interaction with other children because I don't want him to to be behind. My daughter will do the same. But when it comes to school, I don't want them at school. Um, so Isabella was like, "Well, I'll take a step back and I'll I'll I'll look after the children." Which was tough because she she like what you see me do, she done exactly the same. Like there was no like I was above her or she was above me. She is an unbelievable business woman and a worker. And to be honest with you, a lot of this fell apart when she stepped back. I think your network is your net worth and the people that you have around you, mate.

Yeah. I have incredible people around me. Yeah. So, my phone, if you take me out of social media and don't don't look at my social media and look at what I do, if you spend a week with me and you see who I have around me, you'd be like, "Oh, wow. This is pretty incredible." I have an unbelievable network outside of social media. Social media is whatever anybody wants you to see.

It's perception.

Yeah. But outside of social media, my network is incredible. solicitors, accountants, people who you can call upon who can get things done. Like I've built an incredible network and the people outside of social media stood by me. Every single one of them. No one let me down outside of social media.

I actually um you put a post on Instagram or one of your YouTubes the other day. I think you said people creating like fake Instagram accounts, fake Trust Pilot accounts. So I did a bit of due diligence. I looked on your Trust Pilot and the only bad reviews you actually had were people that had left one review. Now to me that screams to me I've made an account up to say something bad about someone.

Yeah. Um Yeah. There's there's a lot of stuff behind the scenes that I've said I said every questions on the table. Yeah.

And I've told you you can ask me anything. I don't care. You can individually name people if you want to. I won't do that because that's not that's not my I'm not that guy. We're not here to chuck people off.

I'm not that guy. One day in the next three years once I've cleared all my debts and I'm back on top. I will tell the the truth and there is one individual out there that done all this.

Um and that will come out because it has to.

We can do another podcast in three years. But it has to come out because it was a smear campaign and there's a lot of stuff and I take my hat off to them because if you've got to go to that level to ruin someone, it shows you exactly who I am.

Um, but yeah, like you you anybody with any common sense will know that when you speak to me about property, there isn't many on my level

at what I know.

At what I know, I don't claim to be the greatest in the country when it comes. There's people out there that are geniuses like building skyscrapers and you know hospitals and stuff like that but at my level you'll be very far pushed to find somebody who knows as much as I do because I live and breathe it from morning till night. I'm not just an educator who stands on stage and makes money from selling courses.

Yeah.

Um

so yeah but one day that story will come out. But

what I like about you Steve is from the last 15 20 minutes of us talking your journey obviously you're much further down the road than I am but you your journey started similar to mine in the sense of I got into property I played around with it for a couple of years doing a few berlettes a few off plans few brs and then for me that was my exit strategy for when my main business when I decide I don't want to do it anymore but you've kind of not come at it from a place of theory And I think you said about listening to people around you. I think it's very negative when you listen to people coming at it from place of theory. Like why would you go to university and do a business degree and learn business from someone that's never run a [ __ ] business?

It makes no sense to me.

It makes no sense to me. They can teach you how to do a forecast, a project plan, a balance sheet,

but they've never had a business when the shit's hit the fan and they've got to dig deep quick. They've not been through that.

No. And I think if you do learn anything from me today, I'm pretty sure you won't because you know a lot more than I do, but if you do learn anything and the journey you're going through at the minute, never take constructive criticism from someone that's never constructed anything.

I I yeah, I I preach it. Um but I fell for it and it is what it is. But when it comes to property education, like you just said with theory and stuff, the world is so blindsided by whatever they see, how can an educator educate you who you've never seen on site? If someone's on social media and you never see them on site at a house, you never see them on a project, you never see them with a builder, but they're but they're but they're telling you how to do it, how how in your brain are you looking at that going, "Yeah, this geyser or this girl must be like

I know who you're referring to." And

there's there's no one I'm actually referring to because if I'm honest with you, there's probably off the top of my head I could name eight people.

Yeah,

genuinely there's not one individual. Um, there's eight people I'm probably thinking about right now. And I look at it and I see people like lining up to go to their events or their webinars and stuff and in my brain I'm just kind of like, are you that blindsided that you've never I've never seen this person on site ever.

Yeah.

People can do what people want to do, but they're never going to be able to learn from them. Like they might think they have short-term success cuz it's a it's a it's a feeling, isn't it? It's a it's a hormone or whatever it is in your brain when when you do a course, when you go somewhere and you get that motivational feeling and stuff. It's like a dopamine hit.

That's a dopamine. That's what I was looking for. Thank you. Um, they believe they're doing something.

Yeah.

When you look back, 99% of them have never done well or never will do anything because the information they've got is incorrect. Like people think, "Oh,

you know, he's still standing. He's still No, no, you don't. I buried my head in the sand. I let it happen. I was like should have got up, firefighted, fixed, sorted, but it was just kind of like

it'll be all right. It will sort itself out."

Yeah. which is like one of the dumbest things because I am so proactive. A friend of mine calls me up with a problem. It's I fix problems. That's what I do. I'm that guy. I can fix anything. You can bring anything to me. I'll fix it. You can tell me that HMRC are investigating you. You can tell me that [ __ ] the FBI are looking for you. You can tell me that anything. Your house is falling down and there's only two bricks left. I guarantee you by the time you leave me, you have an answer to the problem. Um, you have a solution and you will fix it. I didn't do it for myself.

Are you one of those people that's very good at giving advice but not taking your own advice? Cuz I'm the same.

Yeah, I'm terrible.

I'm in my businesses over the years, I've shafted myself more times than I care to remember for the benefits of others. And I think from what you're saying

Yeah. Yeah. You think that's a trait though?

Think it's a trait in entrepreneurs?

100%. I think to be a business owner or an entrepreneur, I don't care what anyone says. You have to have something very, very wrong with you. We're not normal people.

No,

I don't care what anyone says.

Well, Serena's been around me now nearly 9 months. She's sitting there. Bless her. She's been You have no idea how this girl has kind of saved my life. It's it's a joke that that what what she's done. But she I know and she's never said this that she sits down there and thinks he's absolutely crazy. She she she like I see her face sometimes and she's like what is he doing now? Um but yeah, I think I think you have to have that little bit of delusion. I I had delusion when I started because my my goal is 100 million.

That's just

how far did you get before it all started going wrong.

I done well. I did I did okay. Um I did I did good. Not 100 [ __ ] hell. Like not 50% of the way there, but I was I was on track. Um and everything was going amazingly well.

Um and that was my first goal. That was my first goal. Um, now my goal is just to survive, just to get through it. That's my goal. But it's not my end goal. It's my smaller goal now. Fix the situation I'm in. Put a timeline on it. Um, when you lose money, everybody wants to sue you. Everybody, because people don't understand it. So, say you I owe you 20 grand. just say I owe you £20,000.

Yeah.

You don't understand that when someone is in the horrors, you are at that level. You got 33 vitalletes. You know, you told me about your house and your business and your other business outside of property and stuff. So, you are at that level

and and this

Exactly. And this is an amazing setup, guys. If you can see this setup, you'd be very well impressed. Um, it's unbelievable. Um Cheers, mate.

It is really really cool. Um, if you you said you had to borrow 100 grand just to pay wages

using my house

as collateral, right? But at the time, anybody looking in would think you just got 100 grand lying around somewhere. 100 grand to him is nothing. Look at what he's got. They don't realize that when you're in the horrors and you're in the [ __ ] 10 and 20 grand starts to become a million and two million from what you was previously thinking. So someone's like, "Oh, you owe me 20 grand." And you're like, "I ain't got it." You don't understand like what's going on. Oh, we're going to file bankruptcy petition against you. You do realize if I go bankrupt, you get nothing.

Yeah.

The brain from the person who's never been in our shoes doesn't understand it.

No,

they don't get it. So, they they don't realize how difficult this situation actually is because as soon as I get something, I want to give it to people just to show intent.

Yeah.

And I leave myself in the horrors. People don't understand that because they're like, "He's full of [ __ ] Full of [ __ ] He's looking after himself first, looking after this." No, no, they don't realize. No, no. I have literally sat on the edge of my bed in these last 18 months with less than 100 pound in my bank account thinking, "Oh my god, what the hell am I going to do?"

I think people need to understand as well, and especially with social media been an incredibly powerful tool, but it's also, as I explained to you and Serena last week, I'm very, very new to this journey. So, but I've learned in probably two, three months that I've been doing this thing, it's the most toxic, negative place in the world to be. But the one thing I do realize, for every 10 negative comments I put, a couple of refurbers we got going on at the moment, everyone's a [ __ ] property expert. Everyone's a property expert. And then for every 10, 15 negative comments, Alex is like, "Greg, stop [ __ ] responding to them. wait to the end until you got the figures and prove that you know your [ __ ] But then kind of for every 10 negative ones, one bloke who's actually got a following and he's not got his profile picture of a dog or a cat or just his name with more than two followers actually goes he's writing what he says. He's saying that I know you're affiliated with Howens. We get kitchens from Hensen's what we call like standard rental kitchens. We get them for about 1,300 quid. Why? because we buy shitloads of them for property refurbs as well. So they're like, "Well, we're paying five, six grand." I know, but you're buying one every 15 years. You're not buying two or three a week.

People don't understand that.

No.

But again, in a social media world,

like you say, if you're got to the point where you're sat on the edge of your bed and you've got 100 quid left in your bank

and then they see what you're putting out on social media, they'll think, "Oh, Steve's got 10 developments." How many have they got on the go at the minute? Developments? nine that we're trying to finish.

So, if you got nine on the go at the minute, they're thinking, "Oh, [ __ ] hell. He must be printing money." But what they need to understand is you need to get these jobs finished

in order to repay people, get them sold. But every day that they go over when I don't have the money, they don't realize that the bridging fees or

Yeah.

they're mounting up like incredible. So, what had a 60 grand profit in it might now only have 20.

Yeah.

They don't get this is the world that they don't understand. And

place a theory again.

They don't get it. There's loads more that goes into it behind the scenes. And you know, like I said, people just go, "Oh, just sell houses." No, it

you're going to be worse off than if you're

Oh my god, they don't understand that. No.

Um,

one thing I have learned when you're behind with lenders or when you've got bridging companies and stuff like that, it's so much easier to do deals with them.

Yeah.

Because they will wait because they understand that the end product of bankruptcy leads to nothing.

Yes. Yeah. So they drive tech something nothing. But human beings my problem I think one of the one of my main problems and I know I I don't think I know it was one of my main problems because of my background and where I'm from. Someone would come to me with a story and I'd take them on as a partner not realizing that that's all their money in the entire world and their whole livelihood depends on it. I will never ever ever ever ever work with somebody who doesn't have more than half a million pound in their bank account again. Ever.

Really?

Never ever ever ever ever. Since I stopped doing earn and learns April 17th last year, I've been offered more than 10 million pound.

Really?

Yeah. That's no lies. I get offered money on the daily basis. Even I had a zoom with that guy and his wife who was in the car the other day and they wanted some mentoring. They wanted to transfer me £100,000. we'll just give you 100 grand ste and do something with it. I was like, no, no, I don't do that. That's not what we do. I've had more than 10 million pounds offered in the last year. Um, haven't took a penny because how can I take more money on I'm in the I'm in the horrors. Um, but I'll never work with anybody who doesn't have more than half million. That's not me trying to say I'm better than anybody.

No,

that's people understand there's delays at that level. People who have that kind of money understand business. Um, and it's just easier to navigate a situation. Um, but I'm not really actively doing any deals as in person. I haven't bought anything in a year. Um, but I can't afford it. Um,

is there anything you're doing for like investors at the minute basically?

Yeah. So, so basically I my community I source them all deals. I help them project manage. Um, yeah.

How many have you got in your community now? I know you said four and a half thousand at the peak.

We've walled it. I think we've got it on 500. And how many is in there, Serena? She's checking now. I think 562.

562. It was 562 when I saw it on the app the other day. Okay.

Um,

how much do you charge for community per month or does it vary by

No, it varies. Um, I'm probably the Okay, this is going to sound cocky and arrogant, guys. I'm sorry, but I am the best at what I do at my level. I charge the cheapest out of everybody in the country. So if we put all the people that you can name, I'm the cheapest because it's not my job. My job is developments. The education was a bonus. It was amazing. It was incredible. It is incredible. I love it. But I don't know how you can charge people 15 20 grand,

which some do.

I don't get it. I don't get it because I've I've been a member of every single educator's package. Not by name,

by affiliates. Yeah,

because I needed to figure out what the competition were doing when I started social media. I'd be dumb if I didn't do that.

They might also have value that you might not have learned.

They might see there might be a section where I've gone, I didn't discuss that. Wow, how smart is that? And that has happened. Um, but I probably spent 60 grand in the first year joining all these mentorships.

Yeah. Yeah. I joined every one of them. Every single one of them. But as somebody else obviously because I didn't want to cause drama. I've never

Smith.

Yeah. I've never gone No, no, I mean I got individuals to join for me.

Ah, right. um like family members and friends and paid for the the things. Um, not to out anybody or to go on social media and go, "This is terrible." Like you said, it was to either pick up something that I wasn't doing cuz I've never done it before or to assess what level of education was going out. And when I actually

saw what level of education was going out, I genuinely was, "Holy [ __ ] this is like the most basic stuff, and people are paying 15 grand for this."

Um, there's a lot of that pre-recorded like you just get sent a load of like video tutorials to work through.

So with my education, I do, um, every month I do a master class in person.

Yeah.

I have no screen. Well, I have screens, but I have no, there's no, um, what's the word? There's no teleprompter. There's no, I don't follow a script.

Yeah.

So I'm doing a supported living one on Sunday. I've been in supported living since 2018. So I've got eight years worth of experience. Um, sorry, 2019, seven years of experience. I'm doing a supported living master class on Sunday, sold out.

Um, I've got no script. I will literally freestyle it from 10:00 in the morning till 6:00 at night and hand out all the information everybody needs. And by the time people leave, they're like, "Oh my god, that was the best master class." Again, because I know what I'm talking about. I don't need a screen. I don't need. You can ask me anything.

Um, how many people do you get coming to these events on average? I know you're going to get peaks and troughs.

Anything between 30 to 100.

Okay.

Um, but because this is my first one this year, my first one I've done because of I just...

Not had it in you, basically.

Nervous, I think, is a good one. Showing a little bit of vulnerability here. I was nervous.

Um, so I put it out the other day and said, "I'm just doing 10 spaces at £300 each, full day of training on supported living. I'll give you all the documentation you need, everything you want." They sold within like five minutes, which was, which was very like rewarding.

Yeah.

Um, it shows that people would still do value.

Yeah.

That's how I would perceive that. If that was me in your situation, I know actually...

I got a lot of people after me here. But [ __ ] if that sold out like that.

Yeah, it did.

People, do you know what I mean? Don't put yourself down to that level.

Yeah. And and I just wanted to, I just had 10 people. I just want to break myself back into it.

Um, but I used to do seminars with six, 700 people. It's on social media. You can see I used to fill out rooms from morning till night.

Um, and I, I, I don't know which way I want to go with with with with life at the minute.

Um, I know I need to fix my problems and my whole concentration is is on fixing the problems.

Um, not really the education side as much.

Um, so yeah.

Um, the the the properties said nine. You say nine.

Yeah, then I've got to finish them nine. Jesus, they're just stressing me out now.

Yeah. So, are they the the like the remnants of the earn and learn?

Yeah. Yeah. There, there's nine projects in there. Lot of money tied up in them obviously.

Yeah.

But I just don't have the cash or capital to finish them all in one go.

Yeah. To do like one, get it refinanced, get the money out, go again and again and again.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard.

What, what do you reckon at the minute across the nine it's going to take you to get you over the line? If you were going to do it all in one hit now and just go, I'm going to chuck X to get all nine over the line. What do you reckon you need?

600 grand. Half a mill. Some of them HMOs and stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah. Um, but like I said, it would be very easy for me to go and get half a million quid today. I just put it on social media and say, "Does anyone want to do this?" And the amount of feedback I get is crazy. But that's the easy way out with bollocks. And I couldn't do that.

Yeah.

Um, so I'm just doing little bits and pieces, um, just to keep things rolling over. I'm a great sorcerer. Like I'm probably one of the best sources in this country.

Um, my track record is proven.

Um, and if, if I didn't want to do the education and I stopped my developments, I could easily do 200, 300 grand a month on sourcing.

Yeah.

If I worked on it full-time. But again, the bit that people don't understand is I throw that out as like a, yes, I could do that. You don't realize that when you wake up in the morning, I don't really want to do anything because the horrors like I'm getting emails and texts and WhatsApps and I'm firefighting and I'm trying to keep people happy and I'm trying to this. I'm trying to. And then by the time I've done all that, I'm drained and I'm like, and again, people don't, don't understand that level of mental exhaustion.

Because on on social media, I'm just smiling. I think for you, the way that I'd see this and for people that you've got issues with, I think probably need to see that the nine that you're trying to get finished, if you're portraying that journey on social media, that will then also lead to more work, which also helps to your comeback, that also then leads on to them getting paid back quicker. That's how I see it.

You know the craziest thing about it? Let me put this into context for you. Right? So I can't say any names because there's certain things I'm not allowed to discuss.

Um, but when I got attacked in April,

Last year.

Yeah, it was April 17th. I went on a podcast and that was the, that was it. It was a complete setup. It was...

Was that the one Serena referred to me on the phone two weeks ago as the podcast?

Like it was horrendous. It was a complete, it was the most...

She was a me. She paid to be a member of my community.

Yeah.

And then and then she did that. Okay. But if you watch the actual podcast, I'm great in that podcast. I don't claim to be a land developer. I explain I've got a mentor who's teaching me how to do it and she was trying to catch me out and she was trying to do certain things and I, I spotted it straight away. And yeah, I probably could have carried on with the podcast easily. No questions asked. I could have carried on, but why would I give her more of my time when she was on there just trying to, trying to do what she was trying to do? So, I walked out, which was the start of everybody jumping on the bandwagon.

Were you in trouble at this point or?

Not really. Like there was a few hiccups, but that day...

There's always going to be, but that day is where I buried my head in the sand.

That's where that's where it started to snowball massively. Few months before that, we had a few issues, but not, nothing I couldn't survive, could have come around, could have fixed it. That after that podcast, what happened was my daughter was born, um, two weeks prior to that podcast.

Second child, um, Capri. Um, she's absolutely beautiful, by the way. That's daddy being like, um...

Not Capri, I name out about cars, not named after...

No, no. And that's another falls. No, Capri 11. Um, she's, she's beautiful. And it's my first daughter. I already had a son. Um, when that podcast happened, that day, um, the setup was wild. It was wild. I walked into this room.

Is it like a hotel meeting room? They...

So I live literally 1 minute from that hotel. Really?

I don't even know how she knew that. That was a red flag. Should have known that, but I didn't.

Did you just think we...

It's a hotel that you would never book. Just put it that way.

It's a dodgy hotel.

No, it's a beautiful hotel, but it's one that you don't even know about. Cuz there's one down the road called the Belfrey.

Yeah.

That everybody knows.

My dad loves a Belfrey. He's a big golfer.

So, this one, nobody knows about this hotel. It's a beautiful hotel, five-star hotel, but no one knows about it because it's in the middle of like, um, a golf course and houses. Uh, it's called Mohaul. It's, it's a beautiful hotel. So when she booked that hotel, it was kind of like, cuz she, she booked a, um, a studio in Birmingham and then she said, "That's been cancelled. I've booked one here." That should have been a red flag, but at this moment in time, I'm on top of the world.

I'm flying. Um, so everything is just like rosy. Um, and she's pregnant and she's asked me to do the podcast and stuff.

Um, when I walked in, I'd watched two previous podcasts that she did and it was like mobile farm stuff, you know, wasn't this, you know. Then when I walked into the podcast with me, there was four videographers with four cameras. I had my full-time videographer with me. I had two at that stage and even he pulled me aside and he went, "This is better than your setup and you've been in this industry a long time and she's never, she's got no thingy." And he actually said to me, he genuinely did. He was like, "Something ain't right here." And I had, um, I had, um, a girl with me who was my previous PA.

Yeah.

And she looked a bit nervous. And then I had another lady with me who was one of my mentor students cuz I said, "Come and watch podcast. You'll enjoy it." Sure. "I'd love to." So we're sitting there and when we sat down, um, like you said to the guys here, "Just your phone's off, you know." And then you made a joke, didn't you? You said, "It's usually my phone that rings."

Yeah. Yeah. So, you was being a very genuinely nice person. When my team sat down, she turned to them and she said, "Make sure your phone's off and you keep your mouth shut. This is my podcast. Do not speak."

And from that, again, I was like...

"Alarm bells, red lights."

I didn't. Cuz she's a woman. I don't. I, I have massive respect. My mom would beat the [ __ ] out of me if I ever disrespected a woman.

Um, I mean, I know she's not here anymore, but yeah, I, I still have that kind of level of thingy. All the alarm bells went off, the camera crew. And then another thing that's going to blow your mind is this is how again, I, I did discuss this on the last podcast I did. It's the first time I've ever said this on social media was at the last podcast. So you're not getting exclusive, nothing. When I left that podcast and I walked out that door, there was two security guards outside the door.

That she'd hired. Was she thinking something was going to go like bent or something?

What do you think? Why? Why would you have two? Have you got security guards outside your door? She was being manipulated. So, it wasn't her, but she was the, the puppet on the shrink.

Um, for the person that you think's trying to...

It's not. Think.

Yeah.

Yeah. But she had two security guards. I walked out. There's two security guards standing there.

Wow.

And I've gone...

"What's all this about?"

I made a comment actually. I'm not going to discuss about the comments. And, and the mad thing about it is I knew the security company that they were for, cuz I saw the logos on the t-shirt. Well, one had the logo, the other one didn't. The other one had the blue t-shirt on. Um, and afterwards, couple of months later, obviously, you know, you, we know everybody knows everybody in this world. It's not a secret. You know, you all know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody. Um, they all thought that I was going to take the equipment, the cameras after the, they come with an agenda and they thought I was going to try and take everything out the room.

Why?

Because they thought what the questions that they was going to ask me, they thought I wouldn't want Ed. And there was, that's the whole point of it. So, it was clear as day from when I walked out the room, this, I knew it was a setup. From the, the questions when it, when the questions started coming, I was kind of like, this isn't a podcast.

Interrogation.

Interrogation. This isn't a podcast. And you know, I've done a few things in the past that I'm not proud of and I shouldn't have done. Um, but we all do certain things in order to, to, to, you know, we make mistakes. And she was trying to get me to, to, to down past stuff, previous. Um, and I could see where it was going. And that was, that was the start of it. My daughter was two weeks old. When I say to you, it blew up. I'm not exaggerating. And I'm not putting it on the level of like real famous people in the world because I'm not famous. In the property world, I have a good, I have a good following.

Yeah.

But our niche is 1%.

Yeah.

We're not jumping off buildings and breaking legs and setting fire to houses and cars. We're not Logan Paul and Jake Paul. But in our niche, we're quite big.

Yeah.

It blew up. It, it gained traction. It gained traction quicker than you could ever imagine. Within, within 48 hours, I had every single person in the property world reaching out to me saying, "What's this? What's that?" Then other educators started making videos about me. People breaking down my companies, not understanding how companies work, you know, uneducated again.

Um, and then paid ads. Paid ad was the one that killed me. There was people out there like clipping the the things and then paying for them to be promoted.

Um, what would their angle been to profitize?

I, I, I was, I, I would have been, again, I can't, I can't say because it's, it's got something to do with the podcast I want to do in three years. But the angle was to just literally, when you're on top,

Which I was genuinely on top. You can ask anybody.

Um, everybody comes to you because...

When I started reading comments, which guys, if any of you ever get attacked on social media, don't read the comments. Like, just, just don't.

Um, it doesn't help. It doesn't help your mental state. It doesn't help anything. But I, I read the comments. And like, there was other educators who I'd never had any problems with. I'd had them on all my podcasts. I'd put them on stages to do speeches and talks and paid for hotels and things like, you know, unbelievable stuff because that's the kind of person I am. Like commenting unbelief. I knew there was something not right with him. And I'm looking at this geyser who's writing these comments and thinking,

Well, you weren't saying that when you was on my stage with 600 people selling your course and I let you because like I've got no problems with competition.

Yeah.

You weren't on, you know, I didn't go on social media when, when I know your project failed.

And you lost 60 grand and you, you're sitting in my office asking me how to fix it in the future, but on social media telling people you made 50. I've not gone on there and outed you. How are you commenting this stuff about me? And people were like making videos going, "Ah, anybody that's been educated by Steve Hamilton, join my course. I'll do it for half price if you can prove you as a member."

So they were using it to onboard people onto their course. You think?

You know, if I don't know you,

Never met you in my life.

No. Couple of phone conversations and a couple of...

Since I've, um, you've reached out to me.

Yeah.

I've researched you.

Yeah.

I see what you do. I know who you are. I've met you for a very short period of time. I take you on face value. If you got attacked on social media next week,

Yeah.

I would pick up the phone to you and I would say, "Do you need any help?"

Yeah.

"What's going on? How can I help you? Um, what's the situation? What problem are you in? Let's figure it out." Um, I put my hand out and I will pull you up. I would do that to anybody.

Yeah.

Before I got attacked, because there's people that before I got attacked on social media, I had members of my community coming into my room saying, "I've made a video about this person. I'm going to post it on social media." I'm like, "No, you're not. No, you're not." And they're like, "What do you mean?" I'm like, "You're not posting no video. You're not being associated with me and and criticizing and mocking someone." I said, "That we don't do that." Because what people don't realize is, and you can, you can see how it works. If you make a video about somebody and you criticize somebody and you say, "Oh, I'm outing them to save other people from falling for the same thing," what you don't realize is that you're actually harming yourself because future people ain't going to want to work with you because they're like, "Well, if I mess up or if I do something wrong or if I've got something going on in my past, which 99% of everybody in this country has a past, people are too scared." I, I don't believe that your team, my team in this room, the people in the units either side of us, if you went to every single person, I can guarantee every single person's got at least one skeleton in a closet.

Everyone.

Everyone. I don't give a [ __ ] what anyone says.

Everyone. Everyone. I know that. I'm from the, I'm, I'm from the streets. I've grown up in the street world and I, I, I've grown up in the corporate world as I got older. I've been around every type of character you could ever imagine in your life. I've even sat with a billionaire. I've seen how they act, how they talk, how they how they walk. I've had people, my, I've got a mentor. My mentor's worth, I don't know, 60 million quid, I think.

Yeah.

Um, last year he was sitting there saying, "I think it's over."

"I think it's over." And I'm like, "What do you mean?" "I think, I think I'm done. I think I'm at the end. I've bit off more than I can chew." Six months later, he's on holiday for a month in Portugal. Fixed it, got over it. Another problem I've solved. What have you done to get to this situation? Done things that I'm not very proud of in the past. Skeletons. Everybody's got a skeleton. Everyone.

And I think that when you attack somebody or you call out somebody, there's two reasons you're doing it. One, for clout and attention.

Yeah.

And two, because you're an, it's anger. It's anger. I had a girl make a video about me.

Um, and this girl, right, it's very easy for me to say I don't like her. I actually do like, even after she made the video about me and the video was pretty, pretty horrific, cuz she brought my Isabella into it as well, which...

Like going in on you.

Yeah. Once you cross the line and you bring my family into it, like there's a different level of it's...

Too far.

Yeah. Yeah.

This girl, it's so easy for me to say that I hate her.

That's a strong word.

Yeah. It's a very strong word.

Because I actually don't hate her because I understand it, cuz I'm not stupid, and it's anger and it's frustration. And I've met the girl since this video and we've sat down and had a coffee.

Really?

And she apologized for the video. I let her down. She's an earn and learn partner. I let her down, but she also knows deep in her heart that I'm going to fix it. So, she apologized. She took the video down. I never asked her to take the video down.

Um, yeah.

She took the video down. I understand people coming after people who are involved in the situation, but you know the people who aren't involved in the situation who make videos and comments.

Yeah.

That's my problem.

That's when I get my backup.

So, the girl that reached out to you obviously was involved in the...

Earn and learn.

In earn and all the [ __ ] that happened.

Yeah.

If you've managed to, you know, break bread, shake hands, kiss and make up with this particular person and she's apologized for what she's posted. She, she's apologized for what she's posted.

Yeah.

Like she's not apologized because she's upset me. She's apologized because I shouldn't have done that.

Yeah.

But she was hurt and angry. And, and hurt and angry. And she actually explained to me. We met at David Lloyd. Um, and we sat there and we, we had a very good conversation. And she actually said to me, "I'm hurt, Stephen, because I trusted you. I did follow all the social media narrative. Like I, I was just thinking it's a big scam or something. I've watched, I know you as a person and I wouldn't be in this position in property if it wasn't for you." She, because you've taught me everything I know and without you, I wouldn't have the career I've got now. She actually said that.

Um, and she'll watch this more than likely. And I hope she does because she has an unbelievable future. But she can't attack people on social media because it'll limit her future.

But you've had that meeting and you've said I'm going to pay you back.

We're going to put, yeah.

Are you now okay with her? Like...

I mean, I've seen her a bunch of times since then and I'm always polite. She's always been polite to me. And I feel bad because I've let her down at the minute. At the minute, once it's resolved.

Yeah.

I hope that we can build a relationship again. And some people are like, "Why would you do that with people who have attacked you?" Like, like I said, she's involved in the situation. She has a right.

Yeah.

It's the people who aren't involved in the situation that get my backup.

Yeah. Like you, if you made a video about me today.

You're doing it for clout and views.

Yeah.

You're not doing it to to raise awareness. You're just trying to get more likes and views on your own channel. Yeah. Um, but you don't have firsthand knowledge of it. So, please don't make a video.

Yeah.

Everybody who wants to make a video about me who is telling the truth to an extent, cuz not everyone tells the truth. They always add a little bit of spice to it.

Um, I don't have a, I don't have a bad energy against at all. And hate is a very strong word because I don't really hate. I probably hate two people in this world.

Personally.

Yeah.

But I don't hate anyone.

Um, and that, that girl, like I said, she has an unbelievable bright future.

Um, and yeah, I, I sat down with her. I've sat down with a lot of people.

Um, have you got anyone back on side?

90% of people.

That have gone, right, all right, the shit's at the fan. We know it's gone wrong, but we appreciate you not filing for bankruptcy because like you said, they would have ended up with nothing. You've gone, "I'm gonna put this right."

Please explain this bit to me. Right. This is the bit I need your, I need your honest opinion on this. This, this, this has been bugging me for a very long time.

Okay. Hit me.

Every educator in the UK jumped on the bandwagon.

Yeah.

Okay. Somewhere along the line, a handful of them who I don't want to name, stuck up for me. Okay. Three or four big educators as well, stuck up for me. People you would know if I said their names. Everybody else that I mention, you probably like, "I don't even know who they are." That's why they're commenting.

Um, another person similar to me who does what I do.

As big as you? Not as big as you? Bigger than you?

Nowhere as near as big as me, but had a very good following. Okay.

Okay.

Um, you could see through some of their [ __ ] That's all I'm going to say. You could see through some of the [ __ ] that they posted.

No. Okay.

A lot of their followers were bought.

Okay.

Um, but that's irrelevant. You know, they might have been the loveliest people in the world, but the stuff they put out on social media, you could see was a lot of [ __ ]

Yeah.

Um, I think, and you know, I, I think they had 4 million of investment.

Okay.

Okay. Um, they closed their company down earlier on this year. Okay. So they had investors of 4 million and they, they, they liquidated their company. They went and, um, you know, voluntary liquidation, which means that they've paid a liquidation company who they've picked. You understand how that works?

Yeah, I do.

Um, which basically means they get out of any problems because they've, they've paid the thingy. Then they released a statement on Instagram.

Saying, "We regret to inform everybody that we are no longer." There was educators as well. They sold courses and stuff like that. We know, we, we regret to inform you. Paragraph is about to speak. We regret to inform you that we no longer, um, can, can operate. It's really sad situation that we're in. We've had to liquidate our companies.

Which was a load of bollocks because they liquidated two companies and the other one got liquidated separately. So they didn't even tell the truth there.

Um, "We regret to inform all our investors who we've been in contact with and we've made, you know, conversations with that, you know, we've had to do this. We feel so bad for what's happened. You know, the statement that you would release."

Um, and it's been horrific time in our lives and all that kind of stuff. And then the last paragraph of it was, um, "It's been an incredible journey and we built one of the strongest platforms in the UK and everything was going amazing. Just to let you all know, this isn't the end of me in property. This is just the end for now." So basically reading that statement, it's like, "Sorry I lost your money. Go [ __ ] yourself. I'm bankrupt or I'm going bankrupt, but I'll be back in the future." That's the middle finger actually.

Do you know how many educators commented below who commented on my [ __ ] going, "What a shame. Great guy. Hope he bounces back in the future. Hope it goes well." People who commented on my [ __ ] saying, "I knew he was a runan." Yeah. I'm here fighting for my life to make sure everyone's okay.

And I've been doing it for a year. And these guys out there are all commenting on all these other people's posts going, "Oh, sorry to see you go. Hope you come back in the future." I don't understand that.

So, what you're basically saying is someone that's took the the easy way out.

Has been applauded.

Gets thumbs up, handshakes, fist bumps. And someone that's dug his heels in and gone, "Oh, [ __ ] up. Shit's gone wrong. Buck stops to me. It might not be a five-minute fix. It might be a two-year fix, a three-year fix, but I will put this right."

He's being vilified.

Wow.

Rotten as well. Like some of the comments, it, it got to the point where my family were threatened.

Um, people were flying drones over my houses. My, my addresses were being publicly leaked on social media.

Um, I got threatened.

Um, I mean, I haven't discussed this with the last podcast, but I've had people threaten to shoot me.

Um, people threatened to send people around my house and stuff. What they don't realize is I'm from the streets.

Um, I actually grew up in the streets. Not I'm not hard. I'm not a physical fighter, but I'm also...

Not a, not with your arm like that.

Yeah. But I'm also not a dick.

Yeah.

Like you can't bully me.

You can't threaten me. You say you're going to send someone around my house, you best be prepared to go all that [ __ ] way because the second anybody comes anywhere near my family, um, it's a whole different world of life as you probably are well aware. Someone came around your house and threatened your wife and kids, everything's off the table, isn't it? Let's be honest, right? So that stuff doesn't scare me or threaten me. But what really, really, really was the crux in this was when they started bringing my family into it on social media. I think there's certain things you don't do.

Yeah.

And there's a couple of educators out there that did that.

I think even like the mafia have terms, don't they? You know, you don't touch women and kids. I mean, there's a code.

You don't bring people's families into situations like you, you do not do that.

Um, fake accounts were being set up.

Um, it, it, it got wild, you know? It got wild. It's calmed down a bit now.

Um, there's still a few people out there that are screaming, shouting, "Oh, we'll go on social media and say something." I'm like, "Do you want your money or not? Do you, do you want me to go bankrupt so you don't get paid, or would you like me to pay you? Like I'm fixing things. Let me fix it. It's not a quick fix. Like you said, 90% of people have supported me massively. Like you have no idea. One guy, um, I'm not going to name his name cuz he doesn't like me to name people's names. He found me up the day it happened and he went, "Steve, listen, you've got X amount of my money." I went, "Yeah." He says, "How long is this going to take to fix realistically?" I said, "Matt, I don't know. I don't know."

Um, and he said, "Two years, three years." I said, "Matt, I don't know." I don't know. Like, at that time, when it first happened, he said, "Well, listen, I'm going to send you an email right now. Um, I don't care whether it takes 5 years. Um, I, I'm with you. I got your back from, from the second it happened." And then loads of people followed that path. I'm not just saying it. Loads of people followed that path, um, over a period of time. And some people who were really nasty at the beginning have watched me and they've gone, you know what, Steve, mom said the other day that you're still standing and I should give you a break.

Yeah.

So 90% of people backed away. I think I've taught Alex, obviously Alex has had his business for five, six years now and I've mentored him for a little bit and we've come quite close. And I always say to him that you need people around you, whether directly in your team or people that you deal with in business, that when you're winning, everyone wants to be your friend. When things are going well, everyone wants to be a hanger-on. Everyone wants to go out for beers. Everyone wants to go out for food. Everyone wants to like be part of it. But they're not your friends. They're, and they're not people that you want to do business with. It's when the [ __ ] hits the fan.

Yeah.

They're people that you want around you at that point. And I think famous Warren Buffett thing, if you got a 50-page contract, you're going to wish you had 51 springs to mind.

Yeah.

And I think if you've got people around you that have stood behind you when the [ __ ] hit the fan, they're going to be people that I think moving forward.

Will benefit.

But they've bought into you as well, Steve. They've not just bought into the [ __ ] that's hit the fan. People buy people. And I think for me personally, if I was going to buy into someone in a property journey, obviously I do my own thing, very similar to what you do. We call us competitors if you want. But what I'm saying is if I was going to buy into someone, your story is more likely that someone I would buy into because social media only ever promotes the highlight reel, the wins. Do you know what I mean? You've, like you said, you buried your head in the sand, you picked up, you dusted yourself off, and you've now gone, you know what? [ __ ] it. I'm going to own this.

And I'm going to own it publicly. You didn't have to say to me today, "I'm only going to answer questions 1 to 10 and I'm not going to talk about anything else." You've said off camera when you walked in, you said, "Look, mate, nothing's off limits."

I had nothing to hide.

I made a mistake.

Yeah.

Things went wrong. What do you want me to do? Like, like I could understand if, if, like I was in Dubai now, like, you know, just [ __ ] off and people like, "Well, he was that person, he did do things wrong." Cuz most people who have done something wrong do [ __ ] off to Dubai. It's the easiest way out.

I know four or five that have done it.

Exactly. And, and publicly they're still out there doing their thing on social media as property people when...

You can't touch them.

Can't touch them. Right. That's, that's facts. Um, and I'm here in the trenches, like I said, smiling every day.

Um, fixing what I need to fix. And the, the reason I need to fix it is because my own and learn partners need to see that I was that person. Cuz the 300 others need to come forward one day and go, "Oh yeah, like he was amazing with us." So that would help. People just commented and went, "Steve was incredible." Which they've told me. Everyone right now, everyone's commenting privately.

So,

Like sending you private messages.

Lots.

Okay.

Like, "Oh wow, Steve, like I'm so proud of you that you're still standing." But not commenting on the pages because they don't want to put their name there just yet.

Does that make sense?

They're almost like hanging on the edge of going...

They don't want to lose it because they think, "[ __ ] if he comes back to where he was, he's going to go even bigger than he was before and we need him."

But if he [ __ ] up, we're going to prove everyone right.

Yeah. So, I'm getting hundreds of messages off people now. Hundreds and hundreds. I'm getting invited back to all the shows. I'm getting invited back to all the podcasts. People are going, "He's still standing strong." Because when I say everyone left me, I actually genuinely mean every single person left me. Every single person. Not one stayed.

How did that make you feel?

Sad at the time. Grateful. The last three months.

What was that transition in mental mindset from feeling...

I've gone on all their social medias and looked and they're still doing the same [ __ ] they was doing a year ago but behind because when they was with me, they was flying. Now they're doing [ __ ] all. They needed me to elevate them onto a different level. And that again, that's not arrogance. That's me seeing it from the outside in. And when you're, when you're left and you're... So, would I say I hit rock bottom? To the outside world, they'll be like, "There's no way you hit rock bottom."

To the outside world.

There's different variations, though.

Of course, there is.

Different types of rock bottom.

Um, would I say I hit rock bottom? No, I didn't hit rock bottom. Rock bottom is to me, there's rock bottom in life and there's rock bottom in business. I hit rock bottom in business. Facts. Like, that's a fact. Did I hit rock bottom in life? No. Because no one found me saying that my family's going to die or something like that. That's a rock bottom situation to come out of. I hit rock bottom in business. Would I say that I, I can come back? Oh my god. If we do a podcast in five years' time.

I'm hoping we do. By the way.

I will be the biggest in the country again. I will go to, I'll surpass anything anyone's ever seen onto a whole different level.

Um, what you see with Samuel Leeds, what you see with Rob Moore, what you see with, um, Abby Hookman and them, that level, what they're at, which I was at a year ago, I'll surpass that by a billion times. Like what I've got and what I can do is on a whole different level to anybody. I've proven it and I will get back up there right now. The only thing that I can say that people need to take away from a situation that I've been through and it's very important because you said, what was the mental thing, um, like flick of a switch that made you, you know, go from upset to, you know, the level I was at. You have to have your partner with you. Your partner will make or break you.

Isabella dragged me through this in different ways and ways that like our relationship in 11 years, we, we're strong, very strong couple, even we've been tested these last 12 months.

Yeah.

Because, yeah. But I understand it from me because I take it out on her when someone sends a bankruptcy petition to me and I get the email or I get served and I'm like...

"How many of those have you had now?"

Three.

Um, in how long period?

6 months. Beat them all. Um, but they're horrendous, by the way. They make you feel sick. I don't think you've ever had one of them. I hope you never, ever do. Touchwood. I don't ever. It makes you feel physically, physically sick.

Um, because it's kind of like, if you don't resolve it, it is over.

Yeah.

Like, and how do you resolve it when you got no money?

Yeah.

That's the problem. Um, so with, with your partner, so we've tested, we go, I go home and I'm angry and I'm upset and I'm emotional. And then some days I'm just dead. Some days I go home and I'm literally just like, and she's looking at me and she's like, "What's wrong?" I'm like, "Just, I, I don't want to speak." That's not in front of the children because when I pull up on my drive, I have to go into dad mode, which is really difficult.

It's hard.

That's, that's horrendous.

I have that after a bad day. I've got three, three kids.

I have to go into dad mode.

It's happy, smiley. I've got to pick, I've got to pick my kids up after we've done. And, you know, if you've had a [ __ ] day, I don't know if you're like me, you're driving to pick the kids up and you're thinking,

I really, I don't need to be dealing with this now. But the minute you get out the car...

At school or whatever, you got to turn into dad mode.

Yeah. So for, for, for since this has happened, I have to be dad.

Yeah. Like lie on the floor, roll around, do my thing. My Isabella watches me. She sees me struggle. And what people don't realize is I'm being publicly persecuted. We're going through the horrors. Everything's falling apart. She's going through the exact same thing, just not publicly because that's your partner. They struggle. So, the reason I've managed to get to, so, a lot of people message me saying, "I've got, I've got this one message on my phone and I've got a date." And the date was the 26th of May, which is what is it today? 29th.

28th.

26th of May, 2025. This guy messaged me who owns, um, if you're watching this, I haven't messaged you yet, but I am going to message you. He owns a K9 training company. Okay. I think around here. I was going to say there's a few around here.

Yeah.

So, you probably know who he is as well. Um, I think he's a black guy. Yeah, he's a black guy. And he messaged me and I posted something on the 26th of May and he messaged me saying, "Just give it up, Ste. Just call it a day and quit." And he put that in a message to me.

And that was a year ago, more or less. May. And I text him back on Instagram. Didn't know who he was. Never messaged me in the past. And I put, um, "Why would you send me that message?" He said, and I said, "That's a very negative message from a negative space." And he put back and he put, "Not trying to be negative, mate, but I've seen what's happened to you and I've seen what you go through and I'm watching all these people call you out. So much easier just to quit, mate." And I text back saying, "See you in 12 months." And he put, "I hope so."

Um, so people was even messaging me on social media telling me to quit. Like he was one of 50 people telling me to call it a day. People tell me to kill myself and all sorts of stuff. But when I'm at home with Isabella, she's the reason that I'm still here because she supported me. She sticks by me and she does it in weird ways. Like one morning I'll wake up and she'll give me a hug and she'll kiss me and she'll say, "It's all going to be all right. We got two babies. We live a beautiful life. Get outside and fix it." And the next day she'll wake up and, and she'll, something would have happened and she'll be like, "Just [ __ ] quit. Go on. Go down to the accountants, quit. Go to the solicitors, message everybody, stop, stop your social medias, and quit." And I'll be like, "What?" And she'll be like, "Yeah, go on. Do it cuz you're pissing me off now. Go and do it."

Or fight.

Yeah.

So, she does it in different ways based on my mood and what she thinks. She's been through every scenario in the last 12 months you could ever imagine. I think that's pushing you mentally knowing that you're going to make the right decision.

Yes.

Because you know you won't. She knows you won't quit because you got her and the kids.

Yeah.

But I think sometimes if you're thinking, "Oh, [ __ ] hell. He's feeling sorry for himself again. I'm going to snap him out of it."

Exactly. That...

Sounds like Diana with me.

Without the partner.

Yeah.

You can't achieve anything. And the reason that I'm still here is because of her.

Um, not here physically living, cuz I've never had, um...

Suicidal thoughts or anything like that.

No. I've thought in my brain, it'd be easy if I wasn't here.

I think you'd be... No entrepreneur. No entrepreneur in this world would be telling the truth if they said they never thought that at some point in their career.

I have.

Yeah. I've thought to myself, if I wasn't here, this'd be so much easier for my family, or oh my god, I don't want to go through this. I've never thought about doing the actual act. So, like, you know, that's not come across my mind. My anxiety has been through the roof. My mental fatigue is has drained to points of like, I would say depression.

Um, but as Donald Trump has said, and I'm sorry if this offends anybody, the easiest way to combat depression is go and work your ass off.

Yeah.

And I genuinely believe it works for me to an extent.

Um, glad you mentioned Trump. How many times he been down and out over his career?

I've researched people who have been down and out. Trust me. Like I've been in bed at 3:00 in the morning, got my phone out and going, "Please tell me every, go and chat GPT. Please tell me every successful business person who was bankrupt or gone failed." And then I've researched them all. If you remember the guy from...

FedEx, what he did?

No.

So FedEx, one of the biggest like parcel companies globally, he was something like $200,000 short in the 70s, I think this was. So there's a lot of money back. There's a lot of money now, but it was mega money back then, short of paying his wages. And he had no lending facilities, no nothing left. He went to Vegas with $15,000 and won it to pay wages in a weekend, paid his staff, and then two weeks later he got awarded a huge government contract.

Wow.

So, when people literally gone to the casino and the business casino and bet their money on whatever, that guy did it.

Fair play to him. But risk taker.

Yeah. You can't be an entrepreneur or a business owner and not be willing to take risks.

Risk taker. Um, but to win you have to take risks. I don't care what anyone says.

No. Yeah, I I I just I watch social media and and it upsets me because you see the people out there and you can see through the lies and you can see through the stuff, but you can't call it out because you fighting a losing battle. Um

Why do you feel the need to justify yourself and call them out though?

I think once you get to the level that I'm at and you get attacked like I do, you start to question why everybody else gets support and you don't. And then it starts to dawn on you, what am I doing? I don't need support. I built this without the support. But it's just a gratification thing.

Yeah.

And then you see someone get 200 comments about some flip they've done, which is an amazing feat, and you're thinking, well, I know they're lying because I know the area and I know the numbers, and maybe I even did the mortgage for them.

Yeah.

Um, and the numbers aren't what the numbers are, but there's 200 people going, "You're amazing." And then you're over here building something, and you've done what you've done, and everyone's criticizing you, and you start to plan your mind a little bit. Um, and yeah, so yeah, uh, I I could go deep into that, but

Throughout this process, obviously you've been definitely tested financially. No argument there. You've been tested emotionally.

Yeah.

You know, and obviously your wife's been tested emotionally as well, you know. Is your definition of success changed throughout this period? I know it's a deep question.

It's got two sides to that question. One is the want of what I want from success. So success used to be to me cars, houses, watches, holidays, doing what you want to do when you want to do it.

Materialistic things.

That was genuinely part of success. Yeah.

And I think anybody who tells you that that's not part of success is full of [ __ ]. This has humbled me to the point of my new second time around. My definition of success is making sure that my family are protected from anything I do. That's my success. Spending time with my family. Um being able to, you know, walk into the house genuinely happy and not having to put a face on.

Yeah.

Um, so it definitely has changed my thought process of success, but it hasn't stopped me from wanting to achieve levels that 99% of people can't. My goal is still 100 million. Um, that's my first goal. Um, probably get there in the next seven years. Um, if

You got three bouncing back, you reckon?

Oh my god. Yeah, these next three years will make or break me if I can survive them. Um, and when I say if I can survive them, it depends on the outside pressure, if that makes sense.

But you said the nine the nine deal,

It won't clear everything. I've got to still sell some of the other assets and still build some of the other things up. But yeah, it'll give me the biggest breathing space you could ever imagine in life.

If you can get those nine finished.

Yeah.

And are all those nine down your way like Birmingham?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, other things that people don't understand is when bridging lenders call in loans and sending receivers, your interest rates and stuff that goes on that is astronomical.

People don't get that.

Like they think, oh, like the the banks called the loan in. No, the banks called the loan in plus 50 grand.

Yeah.

You do that on 10 properties, there's half a million quid. Um, we had Oh, we had the worst thing ever. Oh, mate, this was horrendous. when when you take when you open up a company and you've got um a property in there and the property's got either a mortgage or or a bridge on it. Um, it's got a charge on the properties, you know.

Yeah.

Um, if your confirmation statement isn't filed, you get a ping at your accountants.

Yeah.

To say your confirmation statement is filed. Um, and then they obviously request a strike off as you know, actively request a strike off. Now, when that happens, your lender gets a a ping to say that that's happened because they've got an interest in the company because of the property and the money

Or they've got a charge or charges.

Exactly. Yeah.

And your accountant is supposed to get it.

We had three companies, right, three that needed confirmation statements. My accountants didn't do it. My lenders didn't contact company's house to say that we've got an interest in that company. And they all of all three of them went into dissolved. Well, three of your companies.

Yeah. Now, I don't know if you know any of this. Each company has two years worth of accounts that need filing because the first 18 months you don't have to file anything. Second year, you have to file. Then you to get them out of dissolvement, it's costing anything from 6 to 25 grand a company. That's just to get them back out of dissolvements. You've got personal guarantees on the loans. So, the lenders ain't interested in you bringing them out. They just want to initiate the personal guarantee and make it bankrupt.

Yeah.

That happened to three of the companies with five properties in there.

Five in each.

No. No. So, there was two, one, two, two, and one. And that happened. Um, and then you're sitting there with your accountants and your accountant's going, I need 25 grand today. And you're kind of like, I ain't got [ __ ] 250 quid. like and then and then it causes other problems which people don't realize is you want to refinance some other properties but you haven't filed the accounts because you don't have the funds to pay that so the bank like well until you file the accounts you're not lending.

Is that why you were saying you're in the [ __ ] with your companies not being filed and stuff like that?

Yeah, we had so I had the greatest accountants but the greatest accountants up to a certain level.

Okay.

And I never swap my accountants three years ago to a new accountant that could handle the level I was at. So I was

The level of the heat you were getting.

No, no, the level of financial thing. So like I was the accountants that I'd been with for 8 n 10 years of my life. Um, I was the guy that handled my accounts who's an an exceptional accountant. I was his first ever million pound account.

Oh wow.

Okay. And that's my relationship with him. um he was the junior in my accountant's practice and my main accountant gave him my file after like five years of being there and it was his first ever million pound account. So me and him have this like really good relationship. As we've grown bigger and bigger and bigger, they can't handle my they couldn't handle

The workload.

I should have swapped but loyalty and me being naive stuck with the same accountants. Now I'm at a new accountants who are levels they deal like this is my mentors accountants now. So like I said my mentor I think 60 million or something. So that's the level of accounts they're dealing with. my name on nowhere near that level, but they're like, "So many mistakes here. So many mistakes here. This is ridiculous what I'm seeing." But they're not doing it in a nasty way. They're just explaining.

They're just telling you how it is.

Yeah. And they're like, "Steve, this could take a year to fix. Like genuinely, it could take a year. You've got director's accounts. You've got, you know, you've got um certain things going on. You've got refurbs put us down as um director's loan. I'm not sorry." And they're like, "You got 300 grand worth expenses that you've put through as um

You can clearly see that they are refurbs, but they've put them down there.

And I'm like, "Okay." Again, I don't claim to be that side of business is something I don't like. I'll be honest with you. Sitting in my accountant's office is not my my my concentration span is horrendous. So,

Solicitors and accountants are the two I.

It's not.

You need to do it, but it's.

But, you know, going forward now.

Yeah.

I'm on it.

Yeah.

I'm on it. When you make mistakes, you either learn from them or you repeat them in the future.

Yeah.

I don't repeat mistakes. So now I'm focused.

So for the path to come back now, I know you got an uphill struggle, mate. Um, is it through deal sourcing, training and education, buying your or finding finance for deals and flipping or

I'm exceptional at deal sourcing and I'm exceptional at creating like vision. Like you give me a house, I can turn it into HMOs, I can turn it into flats, I can turn it into things like my vision is exceptional. Yeah, I'm great at numbers. I'm unbelievable when it comes to contractors. um my my future the education like I said if you ever sat in one of my master classes even at your level you would still walk out of that room and go wow like okay now I understand the difference and now I understand why people were so infatuated with his education because like you said if you read my trust pilot reviews never had a bad review on education apart from a fake account.

Yeah, the people that left Frost.

Who's not even on our system and virtual somebody like these people are not even like the mad thing about it is my community I have my own app.

I have my own app it's a white label called mighty but then you can configure it to however you want it it's exception my app is like levels like and I genuinely mean it's levels the best in the country every single person who does my education goes in that app because you have to to get the the courses or I go live in there I put free videos I put all the information on there you can communicate with everybody on there Um, if you go onto my app and you type these people's names in or you go onto my go high level system,

They don't exist.

They've never even been existing. And then you know the earn and learn partners who were commenting like certain things on there saying, "Oh, we gave him money and this and that." I'm kind of like, "No, no, no, no. You're commenting and adding a negative review, but you're avoiding contact with me." And never been criticized. Even when people were criticizing me on social media, the the the one lad who made a video about me was like, "Yeah, I done an earn and learn and it's been a month over the date and his education was exceptional, but he's earned and learn." And people were saying that on the videos and then people commenting below saying, "Mate, he might just be going through a difficult time and it's a day. Why don't you speak to him instead of making a video because you just said he's the best educator you've ever been with.

Pick up the phone and have a chat.

Yeah. So, I don't know which way I'm going forward. I don't know. Um, because one of my favorite things to do is stand on a stage and teach. It is genuinely one of my favorite things to do. But

Your energy when you speak in front of a crowd is very very good.

Yeah.

You you have a way of capturing an audience and I'll give you credit for that.

Thank you.

You're what I would call kinetic. Now there's not many people that are kinetic in this world. You can go to a seminar or a conference and you're sat like you said two three 400 people in a room and after 10 minutes you're like you know but when you speak I'll give you credit where credit's due people do listen and you have an energy about the way you articulate yourself and you can tell that you're genuinely passionate about property so you're not sure which way you want to go what what's working for you now obviously we know what's not What's not working for you now? What is working for now?

Yeah, I'm I'm I can put a deal out and it's sold in 10 minutes. I don't overest I don't overe the end values. I don't underestimate the refurbs. I tell people the truth. You are not making £50,000 on a 100 grand house. Are you on are you smoking crack? Like you're doing 8 to 12%.

Yeah.

Um on a good one, you might get 16%. Um, and people are like, you know, I get a lot of messages, still I got 100 grand in the bank. I want to buy a house, but I I need to make 50 grand on it. I want to make 50%. Yeah. Well, I'm not the person who can source you a deal for that. I can't.

We have had ones like that. I'm not going to lie. But they're yours.

Yeah.

Is that because of Okay. Is that because estate agents know you?

Yeah.

People have confidence in you and they're like, "This needs to be sold now. You can have this." Yeah. You can get them

Because of our because of our connections and what you built.

Yeah. But how often do you get one where you can make 50% profit?

Well, we got Alex, we got two two three weeks ago. I got a text. I probably should mention the name of the company. I won't. I got a text off an auction company that we use on a regular basis. There was 10 apartments. Well, a big converted balm. 10 apartments. Their marriage, sorry, divorce was about to be finished. Over the last two years, they sold eight of the 10. There was two that was remaining and they had to complete within a week. for their divorce settlement to go through. Now, both of these properties were valued at £140,000 each. That's what the once two had sold for in May this year. I got them both for 41 grand each.

But why did you get them for that?

Cuz I got connections.

Connections. Now, can anybody who starts deal sourcing do that?

No.

Exactly. And this is the problem with people out there when they watch social media and they see these educators or I think people call them gurus and stuff like that saying that they bought a house for 100 grand, they spent 50 grand on it, they sold it for 200. Doesn't exist.

It doesn't exist. Yes, I can get them deals.

Not every day. You're not going to get that deal every day. That deal, it might not come along now for another 18 months.

I've had and I've had some bad ones as well in the last the ones I've done. I've had some bad ones. I've had some great ones.

Of course.

You know, I've I've got ones that cash flow me £180 a month. And I thought, [ __ ] hell, is that even worth it for 180 quid and I get the capital growth in that.

But I've had ones that I've make 780 800 a month on. and I've made 30 grand off the property. But like you said, I think people's, and this is the social media thing here, people think, oh, they see see deal sources and like you said, a guy came to you and went, I've got 100 grand. I want 150 back.

Yeah.

And I have similar things of people coming to me. We're actually doing a talk on Saturday to a group of people. They do exist, but to expect it every time.

Yeah. And I think I don't know if you watch anything on my Instagram. He's not posted it yet, but I did a post the other day about quantity and quality equals velocity.

Okay.

If you're just looking for quality deals, you're going to seriously throttle your progress. But you need to understand, I don't know, I know obviously your kind of situations change, but across my portfolio, I aim for 500 pound per calendar a month profit of each property.

Well, that's that's.

The go that's my golden ticket. But that is the norm for any property investor. Anybody who's in the industry properly on a buy to let after your mortgage has come out, after insurance has come out, if you've got um your management to come out, 500 quid is where you should be aiming to make a profit on a berlet, especially if it's under quarter of a million.

Yeah. I don't normally buy anything over that um just because

Refinancing.

Yeah.

Anything over £300,000, it's very difficult to pull out 75% of your money. Yeah. Um, because the what you got to leave in versus the rent because people don't understand that the refinance is not based on the value of the house. It's based on your rental income. Yeah. And this is the misconception on social media. Again, people think they can buy a half a million pound house and pull out 375 grand.

No.

Not realizing that if the mortgage is 1,800 quid and your rental's two grand, the the stress test is not allowing it. People don't get this.

No.

Because social media makes it out like you can do that. People also don't understand bridging because I've had people come to me and gone, I've bought a house before we used the 100 grand figure at auction or through distress sellers, motivated sellers, but I've had a Rick survey and they valued it at 160. I'm like, you need to bridge it. No, they said, yeah, the mortgage company will not give you for up to six months its real value, so you need to bridge it, but the fees are higher. I know, but you may as well pay five, six grand in bridging fees and then still end up 50 grand ahead. And I think people are afraid of bridging because they don't understand it.

Bridging is the greatest form of lending.

If you right.

If you understand it and the deal works.

Yeah.

Bridging is only great if the deal works. If the deal's tight, bridging will be your worst worst enemy. It'll be like the friend that you wish you never had.

Yeah.

Um, but people don't realize that that they think that bridging is 0.8% a month or 1% which is your average. If you calculate it, bridging is 1.4 to 1.6 once you add all the fees and all the everything in.

Exit fees, management fees.

Put it all in, it's between 1.4 and 1.6 a month. I always say that the best way to understand a bridging finance, doesn't matter what your level of credit report is and stuff is, base it on 14 to 17%. Worst case is 17%. Best case is 14%. if you've got good credit and history and and things. And if you can divide that by 12, that will tell you how much it's going to cost you each month. Yeah. Because people don't take in the setup costs and the the solicitor's fees and not yours, the the bridging lenders because everybody has to pay the bridging lenders fees. People don't get it. Um, but if if you've got short-term lending with good profit margins in, bridging is amazing. Why wouldn't you use it? Um,

It's because people grow up in a system like we said about you don't believe in the education system because of what you said about what you've seen and you don't want to expose your kids to that. But we're trained like I said to get a job, go to school, sorry, go to school, get educated, get a job.

Yeah. And die.

You know, and there is good types of debt and bad types of debt. I don't care what anyone says.

But like because people come to me and go, Greg, you owe all this [ __ ] money in mortgages. I'm like, I know, but similar to you, if you buy a 100 grand house, it rents for say £850 a month and the mortgage is 350 and I'm making 500 quid profit off the rent. That's very different to going down to Flannels or Louis Vuitton or whatever and financing a three grand handbag or pair of shoes. That's bad debt.

Yeah. People don't understand the difference between good and bad.

No.

Um, and social media again makes it out like everybody has to have the Lamborghini, the Ferrari, the nice car. I got I've got people around me. I'm not going to use the term friends because they're not, but I got people around me who are living with their parents and they've got a 1,200 pound car on finance and I'm kind of like, you got all this backwards. You don't understand it. Um, but you can't teach some people.

Can't fix it.

Do you charge for deal sourcing?

Yeah, it's more of a learning thing for me here with what I charge. Um, you'd have to say the figure if you don't want it.

I'll take the figures what we charge.

What do you charge for deal sourcing?

Anything between three and sixk depending on the deal. We charge five if I'm being honest with everyone. We charge five.

Between three and six. It depends on the deal. Um.

Do you.

And it depends on the person.

Yeah.

I'll be honest with you. It's a friend of mine and it's someone I like.

We've done friends and family of Alex. They've come to me and we've done it like my cost in a.

I'm charging because it's my time. It's my expertise. It's my knowledge. You're about to make 20,000. You're about 3040,000.

Yeah.

So I'm charging you for it. Um.

But it's still a deal for you. You're still going to come out on top.

Yeah. Um, but I also, like I told you a little bit earlier on in here, I'm very big in the supported living world. I have been for a very long time. I've got some great connections. Um, I I do a lot of packages with the houses and the supported living contracts.

This is where I'm really weak.

Yeah. And, you know, I can charge anything from 6 to 15 grand for them. Um, I mean, I signed one. When did I sign the last supported living contract?

Two days ago. Um, I sourced a house in Birmingham. Just over 200 grand. Capital. No, no, no.

I saw I saw you did a video.

Yeah. No, this is um this is a four bedroomedroom. So, it's a it's a renovated house. Should it went on the market for 240? I got it for 225. Definitely worth 225 grand. I've actually now got it for 217500 actually. Um, which I text Carl on the way here. So, I've even got it cheaper now. 217500. Um, all done. Brand new brand new renovated. All brand new kitchens, brand new boilers, brand new bathrooms. So, there's no work to be done. Um, and I've just paired it up with a housing association in Birmingham, who I trust and and worked for a very long time. And he gets 1,800 quid a month, five year fixed, threeyear rent review, fully full repair apart from the boiler and the roof. But the boiler's brand new, he's got 7-year warranty. The roof's got no leaks, and his mortgage is coming in at 512 quid.

Um, so cash flowing after everything, 1,200 quid. Um, and he's had to put in 65 grand. Um, and he's but the capital appreciation in the area in Birmingham, this is a great area of Birmingham. Um, it in the if you just go for the last 10 years, you can see where it's gone. It's a very affluent area. Um, but yeah, them ones I can charge between six and 15 grand for.

So you think you're going to lean more towards deal sourcing and then education in the short term?

I don't know. It depends on how I feel. Like I said, I've got my first master class this Sunday. If I come off that buzzing, um, then yeah, I can see getting the spark back. Um, but it's also building the trust back up. I need people to see, you know, through what's been posted about me um and what's been said about me and people just to when people meet me, they understand.

Yeah.

Social media is a whole different world. I think, if I'm allowed to be honest, I think the deal sourcing side, that's going to give you the social proof you need to go, look, what's happens happened, but I still know my [ __ ] and I can still deliver to people. And I think that would help you build your education brand back up.

Mhm.

Because they're going to go, look, he's like the one you signed a contract on two days ago. I saw a couple of flats. Was it emergency council housing?

I I do quite a few of them. Um, I do quite a few of them if I'm honest with you. Um, I I'm I'm very good at um deals. I'm very good. I get a lot of people message me. I get a week 25 deals sent to me, six work.

Yeah.

Which is great. Um, if I got up in the morning and decided to become a deal sourcer, um, and could spend six days a week on it, seven days a week on it, I'd be unbelievable.

With your deal sourcing, do you manage the reurb as well?

Very rare. I try to keep that away from me. Um, and you'll understand this. Um, who can I use as an example? Okay. I had a contractor who came and did a project for me. Um, they refurbed a back to brick house in six weeks and one day. Okay. Documented on social media from the date it started to the day it finished.

The day they got the keys.

Six weeks and one day. Full refurb back to brick. We're talking everything. windows, doors, kitchens, bathrooms, um insulation, the whole nine yards. 65 grand I think the refurb was on this house in um Sun Co. Um.

Is that a good area or a bad area?

Great area. Okay. Great area.

I don't know your.

I did really well for it actually. I think I paid 130 grand for it for I am sold.

Got a great relationship with I am sold as well. Um, they wanted 180. I got it for 130. I spent 65 grand on it. Um, had bridging on it um for three months and I sold it for 280. That's a very rare deal.

Yeah.

Um, they're they're they're quite.

Everyone wants the golden egg deal though, don't they? And this is.

That just turned out to be one though. Um.

You weren't expecting it to perform well.

So you're 30 grand ahead of the game.

I expected 250. I even had in like even when I was like talking on the channel, I was like, you know, if I get 250, 48 grand profit, that's an exceptional. And I even say on my YouTube channel, guys, you can't do this.

I actually say you can't do this. I can teach you how to do it, but it takes time to build these connections. I am sold have called me because I've bought multiple houses off them in the past just like your one and I did that six weeks in one day. Build team were fantastic. Everything was amazing. Fast forward to another project. That build team was under a contractor.

Yeah.

That contractor now has changed the Tyler. It's not the same. It's not the same plasterer. It's not the same kitchen, the carpenter. So they did that for me in six weeks in one day. And then I recommend them to you. The guy is still the same guy, the front guy. He's amazing.

But his team's a different team now.

You're not going to get the same level of performance.

You might get better.

You might get worse.

But it's your fault in our direction.

I don't want to put my name towards that because I know how how fickle people can be.

So when it comes to reverbs, if I'm very close to the person, and I mean, I've got to have dinner with you. If I eat dinner with you, I like you. If I don't like you, I'm not eating dinner with you. Like, and that's been my I've done that forever. And it's not a nasty thing. Just why am I going to sit and have dinner with someone I'm not really compatible with. So, if I have dinner with you or especially if we go Nandos,

You'll know like, "Oh, Steve likes me." Like, in a way, I'm explaining it to people. Um, if I like you, I will help you.

Yeah.

It's like the guy who's just had the social housing contract. He's had to knock one wall out in that house and extend it by 0.8 m in order to meet the legal requirements. and he wanted a vent in the in the in the bathroom. He wanted a ventilation new ventilation system. I did it for him.

Yeah.

Um, I got a builder in. Well, I'm getting a builder in. They'll do it.

You sorted it.

I know them. Um.

But if I don't know you and I don't really have a good relationship with you, I'm not getting involved. I'll tell you what needs to be done. I'll give you the costs that are your costs, not my costs.

Yeah.

But they know what they're working to.

Exactly. So, when it comes to refurbs, I keep well away from I've seen so many people fall file of of the of the reurb side of things. I'm not saying it's not a great thing to do because if you can deal source and project manage and you can package, amazing. But I don't need the stress. I like to give you the deal, get paid, move on to the next one. Yeah.

I offer full refunds as well if um if um there's mines um structural issues that were not seen, you know, certain things out out of my control.

No one's going to see it until you get the keys.

But if you pull out the deal.

If you pull out the deal, you're not getting a refund.

I don't think you say fairer than that. No.

You don't cancel your holiday two days before.

No. If you pull out a deal.

Then jet two go, "Oh, don't worry. I have the three grand back." Um, we've had some we've had all the bad deals that I've done have always been when I've had people running my deal sourcing division for me.

Um, we had a guy the other day say that I owed him £2,000 on a deal. I've never met the guy. I didn't know who the guy was and he never dealt with me. he dealt with other people and he was I don't know if he's jumping on the bandwagon or anything like that but yeah there's there's people out there that um when you deal with me directly and not my cuz I used to have a I don't know if you know this about me I used to have a deal sourcing division and I used I used to have um two managers full-time employed and then I had like 150 deal sources sending deals in every every week.

Like directly employed for you or something.

No, no, they all worked under my umbrella. So, like they'd go out, find the deals, send them to my my team and then I would sell them to my investors and people I knew. Um, it just was a load of [ __ ] I had two guys getting paid full-time by me and the deals that they was getting sent. So, when I educate people on deal sourcing, because they're still watching other people on social media, they don't they still get it wrong. So, then it's my job to educate them and keep educating until they get it right. I have 150 deal sources. There's only 10 people that get it right cuz the others are still watching social media and going, "I don't understand. I've done a comparable. Your comparable's half a mile away."

That can be.

Different [ __ ] place.

You know, and I know I don't know what it's like in your neck of the woods, but in our neck of the woods, a good area inevitably backs onto a [ __ ] hole. Half a mile away.

I do 0.2 four streets to six streets.

What for comparables?

If and that's a stretch.

Yeah.

Like, and that's what I teach. 0.2.

Um, yeah, anybody goes above 0.2 miles, you've been taught incorrectly.

Um, and even at 0.2 miles, that can be a stretch cuz six streets away again can be very different to two streets. Yeah.

Um, but I've got people who have come to me who are um I shouldn't laugh because it's really bad, but people who do comparables as a bungalow with a house and a house with a new build.

And I'm kind of like talking and cheese.

Do you do you understand that this is not the same thing? And they're like, "No, no, because I've been taught by someone else that it's the same thing."

And I'm like, "It's not." So, yeah, deal sourcing is one of my favorite things to do and I really enjoy it and I'm I'm bloody good at it. But people out there sometimes think it's a lot easier than it actually is. It's not as easy.

Do you take comfort though in the sense of everything that's going off at the minute, you still have people reaching out to you for deal sourcing?

I have so many people reach out to me. I have and she's my witness other educators big educators who have got co what are they mentors coaches who message me privately to say can I join your education program but I need you to do it quietly cuz I'm a coach at this place or I'm a mentor at this place still today happened last week.

Okay.

Um, so other people who are being educated by other people have reached out to be educated by me still and she's my witness.

I think that could be the plan, you know. I think if you can deal source with that level of conviction that could get those nine projects over the last.

Yeah, I know. I know. Yeah, I know. I know. It's just getting my head straight.

I get it, mate. I get it. you know, when you if you're anything like me and I'm getting a vibe that we're quite sort of similar people mentally, I me alone with my thoughts is a very very bad place for me to be cuz I go down a rabbit hole and it's very hard for me to come back from that. And I think you've been going through a similar period yourself and it's hard to pull yourself out, isn't it? And I think when you feel you got the world fighting against you.

Yeah.

And it's just you and your wife against and your team like against the world. Yeah.

You know.

Yeah.

I I Yeah. I Yeah.

Yeah. Been through everything in the last 12 months, 15 months. You could literally say I've been through every single thing that you could imagine that someone's been through. As in business-wise, not personal life.

Yeah.

Um.

One word answer, what matters to you most currently? Momentum or perfection?

Momentum.

Okay.

Without a shadow of a doubt. Couple of questions to finish up on.

Where can people follow your comeback journey?

YouTube.

YouTube. Primarily on YouTube more than Instagram.

Telling the truth as well. So I'm even showing like when I get bankruptcy letters or things are going wrong. Like Yeah. I' I've decided that it's time that I just put it all out. It's make or break. So this is either going to be the beginning of me or the end of me.

Yeah. Obviously you said you got your first mastermind in how long this weekend?

Six month. Six months. Five months. Five months. Six months.

Okay. And you got say 30.

No. No. I did it for 10 people.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. Did this one for 10 people.

Okay. So, what upcoming projects, programs, or events outside of this have you currently got planned that people can.

None.

None.

I I I don't I'm taking every day as it comes. And I've got a site visit. I've got a site visit for my members in my app on Saturday at one of my HMR developments. That's moving forward at a good pace. Yeah. Um, I think we got about 15 20 people coming to that.

Um, that'll be a great day for them because they get to be, you know, a project that's probably what 40% of the way through. Actually, probably a bit more than that. The windows were fitted yesterday, weren't they? 60% of the way through. Um, but other than that, I don't I'm just taking every week as it comes.

Two final questions. I think you can always tell someone's character. Obviously being in the trades for as long as I've been in the trades.

Have you had any builders or contractors that have refused to deal with you since the [ __ ] hit the fan?

No.

Not one.

Because every single builder and contractor I've dealt with.

Has always been paid.

Has always worked with me in the past. I'm very, like I said, outside of social media, I have a great network and I have a lot of people that back me. Um, and it'll be very stupid of people not to work with me because if they know my character and they know who I am in the next 5 years when I'm back to where I was even bigger, if you didn't support me, don't expect me to help you. Not in a nasty way, but.

But you can't abandon someone and then like I said, it's who's with you when it's great, everyone wants to be your friend, but when the [ __ ] hits the fan, then everyone bails on you. You can't come back in three, four, five years time when things start going good again and go, "Oh, hi Estie. Here I am again." The amount of platforms I've given in this country to people. Um, if you've ever got time and you're ever just interested, just go back to 2021 on my social medias, right? And you know, every single person that you're going to have on this podcast over the next 12 months, I gave them the platform. And I'm I'm making that statement very boldly.

Okay? Yeah, go on social media from 2021 and have a look at all of my events. Every educator that you're going to get on this program or every property developer you're going to get on here has been on my stage and they never had an audience when they first started before they met me. That's a big statement and a huge statement to make. But I think you've got the gist of me over this period of time.

I gave them all the platform, every single one of them. So obviously in the coming months and years plan for this, we're going to have lots of people coming, not just educators and developers like yourself, but also trades people, solicitors, bridging finance people, mortgage brokers, because I think I want to get the journey across to people of how the entire thing works.

Yeah.

But I think there probably is going to be people sat in the chair that you're sat in now. And you boldly said, look back to 2021. those people now that have a platform rose from what you've created. You said that a lot of them have abandoned you, called you out,

You know, said horrible things.

Yeah.

What do you have to say to them?

That you're rebuilding? And what do you want them to know?

Good luck in what you what you do in the future because I I don't wish harm or bad on anybody. Yeah. Um, but what I want them to know is you made the wrong decision. You shouldn't have left me. You shouldn't have abandoned me. You shouldn't have turned your back on me. You should have stood right next to me and gone, I know his character. I know who he is. He ain't giving up. Cuz anybody that knows me knows I I I'm I have to win. I'm a winner. I always have been a winner. Um, even when I've been through problems in the past, I I win. I'm a problem solver. Never had a problem as big as this to solve, which is part of the journey. Um, but yeah, they shouldn't shouldn't have left me because people like me are very rare. I'm I'm I'm a very rare character because even though they left me and I've just said to you, they can't come back on board. If I ever saw one of them in the [ __ ] I would still try and help.

Yeah.

Which is wild. And my Isabella will probably be like, "Ste, like, what are you doing?" But I I can't I don't like people going through bad. Don't like it. It's kind of like um if you if you did something really terrible and you was getting attacked and stuff, I'd still reach out and be like, you know, what can I do to help? Genuinely, I I I'm that guy. So, I don't have hate. I just just wish people didn't jump on the bandwagon. Social media.

Everyone wants you to do well, but not as well as them springs to mind.

And you got to imagine how how how many people turned on me who don't know me, who weren't involved in me, it tells you everything you need to know.

Yeah.

Tells you everything you need to know.

Because if you go through all of the comments on all the page, I mean, some of them had like six, seven, 800 comments. It was wild. There's only like two people on there that we actually knew. All the rest are just like random as who bored. Yeah. Yeah. And I had a I had I had a guy message us the other day who um who wants to work with me, wants some help and stuff like that. Wanted to do some bits and pieces. Very wealthy individual. Again, you'll know who he is if I told you. And um, he was like, "Ste, can you help me with this?" And he was like, "Yeah." Picked up the phone and had a conversation with him. And he said to me, "Um, how you feeling?" And I I'm all right, thank you. He says, "Um, been through a bit, ain't you, mate?" I said, "Oh, you know about that?" And he was like, "Of course I do. I've been following you for four years." I went, "What?"

Said, "I've been following you for four years. You just just don't know about it. I've just been watching." He said, "I saw all this stuff about you and I've watched everything," he says. And um, he said, "The reason I'm reaching out to you and the reason I want to work with you is because um, you didn't attack. You didn't call people out and you didn't blame anybody. You just carried on." He says, "So me and my dad were sitting in the kitchen the other night and he was like, "Who you going to ring?" I think he's like Ste who's like, "Yeah, I like him. Good guy." And I think the fact that I've just continued to plow. People got to be able to see through the [ __ ].

Smart people.

There is, like I said, there is two sides to every story and I think it's good that you've got your side of the story out there. Um, and I genuinely do, mate. I do wish you all the best.

Come back, Journey. And thank you so much for coming up.

No, I appreciate it. And I do and like I said, people who are watching this at home and if there's any of my own and learn partners watching it, like I do apologize massively for where we're at. We will get fixed and don't ever for one second think that I'm floating around laughing and joking because it does weigh very heavy.

Yeah.

Um, but I really appreciate you having me on and um thank you so much and I think this could become the biggest podcast in the country if it's um if it's done correctly.

We hope so. We hope so.

I think it has the potential.

I'm going to shake your left hand because you can't move your right. Thank you.

Thanks, Kat.