Curtain Raiser | Chanakya Defence Dialogue 2025

A very good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I would request everybody to please take their seats and put their mobile phones on silent mode. We are to begin shortly. Meanwhile, the schedule for today's event is as shown on the screen. The Chief of Army Staff will arrive at 10:15. Thank you. Thank you. I better everyone. Once again, a gentle reminder to the audience to kindly put your mobile phones in silent and please take your seats. Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, Gentlemen, a very warm welcome to each one of you to the curtain raiser of the third edition of the Chanakya Defence Dialogue. We are delighted to have you here with us this morning as we set the stage for a day that promises insight, inspiration, and innovation in equal measure. We have an exciting lineup curated especially for this occasion. A sequence of thought-provoking sessions, powerful exchanges and ideas that push the boundaries of what is possible. The highlight of the day, the real icing on the cake will be a fireside chat with the Chief of Army Staff, General Upendra Di. His vision, experience, and forward-looking perspectives will undoubtedly set the tone for the transformational journey that is the Chanakya Defence Dialogue. The moderator of this fireside chat is none other than Miss Shweta Singh, Senior Managing Editor of Aaj Tak and one of the most popular names in Indian journalism. With a distinguished career spanning more than 27 years in the industry, she is widely recognized for her incisive analysis, rigorous questioning and nuanced grasp of national and strategic issues. We are also honored to host our very special guest, Mr. Rajie Chandra Shakhar, former Minister of State, Government of India, who will be delivering a special address. We look forward.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are honored to have with us today General Upendra Di, PVSM, AVSM, VSM, Chief of the Army Staff. General Upendra Dwivedi, Chief of the Army Staff, distinguished veterans, officers from the three services, friends from the media, ladies and gentlemen. A very good morning to you all. It is my privilege to welcome you to the curtain raiser of the Indian Army's flagship international event, the third edition of the Chanakya Defence Dialogue, which has been jointly curated by the Strategic Planning Directorate and the Centre for Land Warfare Studies. Over the past two years, the Chanakya Defence Dialogue has established itself as one of India's most credible and intellectually stimulating forums on strategic affairs. This platform brings together military leaders, strategic thinkers, academia, industry, policymakers, scientists, researchers and the youth all under one umbrella for generating ideas from which inputs are synthesized and shared with policymakers.

When we embarked on the journey of the Chanakya Defence Dialogue in 2023, our inaugural theme, "Securing India and the Indo-Pacific Region: Collaborating for Comprehensive Security," was aligned with our Honorable Prime Minister's vision of a Viksit Bharat by 2047. Building on that foundation, the second edition in 2024 advanced the national vision with the theme "Drivers in Nation Building: Fueling Growth Through Comprehensive Security," reinforcing the principle that security and development must progress hand in hand. This year, we take another leap forward, synergizing Indian Army's efforts towards transformation through progressive reforms underpinned by national security, technology and self-reliance. Hence, this year's theme is "Reform to Transform: Sashakt, Saksham or Viksit Bharat," which is aligned with the Indian Army's vision of the Decade of Transformation as given by our Chief, General Upendra Dwivedi. As we have progressed over the last three years, we have enhanced the scale and scope of our engagement by reaching out to a larger populace. For the first time ever, a unique initiative was hosted under the banner of this Chanakya Defence Dialogue called the Young Leaders Forum, "Empowering Youth for India's National Security," which was deliberately held on 31st October to align it with Rashtriya Ekta Diwas, the 150th birth anniversary of the Iron Man of India, Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel. The idea behind hosting this forum stems from a fundamental understanding that the security of a nation today demands not only a whole of nation approach but also a whole of public approach. This event was attended by a large number of university students, young researchers, NCC cadets and school students from Army Public Schools and Kendriya Vidyalayas. It was also streamed live to all major Cat A establishments and formation headquarters of the Indian Army, universities having defense wings, academic establishments with memorandums of understanding, regional technology nodes, IITs through the Indian Army cells and paramilitary forces training centers, and was attended by over 9,000 participants from all over the country.

This edition of the Chanakya Defence Dialogue endeavors to capture the spirit of a nation that is on the rise, where security and development are not separate goals but shared missions. National security, apart from being the responsibility of the armed forces, is also a shared responsibility wherein every citizen has a stake and a role to play. Keeping this in mind, today's proceedings are once again being streamed live all across the country. With this background of the Chanakya Defence Dialogue, may I now invite Director General of the Centre for Land Warfare Studies, Lieutenant General D.P. Pandey, PVSM, AVSM, VSM, to kindly deliver the welcome address.

A very good morning to all of you, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, we pride ourselves in keeping ourselves on time, and this time things are moving as per time. So, without uh taking any more time in preliminaries, uh, let me begin my welcome address. Chief of the Army Staff, General Upendra Dwivedi, PVSM, AVSM, VSM; Vice Chief of Army Staff, General P.P. Singh; Senior Military Officers; distinguished speakers; senior military and government officials; esteemed veterans; academia; members of the think tanks; students of universities and colleges; and above all, friends from the media. A very warm welcome to all of you. It's my privilege and honor to welcome you all to this uh curtain raiser of the annual landmark seminar of the Indian Army, co-partnered by the Centre for Land Warfare Studies. "Reform to Transform: Sashakt, Surakshit or Viksit Bharat." This gathering marks the second event of this year's CDD 2025, an enhanced, an enhanced event from the last two editions, uh, with powerful conver- conversations, visionary ideas, and transformative insights that will shape the future of India's defense and national security. The first event, the Youth Leaders Forum, was held on 31st October, as Akashika mentioned to all of you. I will not repeat those uh highlights, but I would like to just tell you the impact of this particular event was so much that our adversary was rattled and took out almost three to four deep fake videos on the 31st October event. So, they are following us very closely. This I have mentioned in the past also on various occasions, of whatever, whatever the Indian Army and the Centre for Land Warfare Studies is actually throwing out into the media is coming out in a big way. Uh, maybe not favorable to us, but then it also tells you the kind of impact which we are getting as far as the adversary on the other side is concerned. Of course, all of you are aware that the event was graced by Shri Kiren Rijiju and a Member of Parliament, Tejasvi Surya, and youth icon. Coming on to today's curtain raiser to the CDD 2025, we have enhanced the scale of the curtain raiser as it brings together thought leaders, policymakers, technocrats, and defense professionals to explore the pathways to a stronger, safer, and more developed India by 2047. We begin today's event with a fireside chat that promises to be both candid and compelling between the Chief of the Army Staff and renowned journalist Shweta Singh, delving into the overarching theme of the main seminar. Very warm welcome to you, Shweta. Uh, this will be followed by a special address by Shri Rajiv Chandrashekhar, PVSM, VSM, former Minister of State for Electronics, IT, Skill Development, and Jal Shakti, a right personality to actually throw some light on our defense preparedness. He'll be joining us later on at around 11:30. We then move on to the panel discussion on the theme of "Atmanirbhar Bharat in Defence," steered by Lieutenant General Rahul Singh, the Deputy Chief of the Army Staff, Capability Development. The right person to do so, with the panel comprising of Dr. Chandrika Kaushik, Mr. Ashish Rajvanshi, and Professor Manan Suri. Together, they will explore the synergies between innovation, industry, and institutional reform in defense. Before I conclude, allow me to share the brief highlights of the CDD 2025, scheduled on 27th and 28th November. The CDD 2025 will be graced by none other than the President of India and the Raksha Mantri, who will be addressing uh the conclave. We are proud to announce that the event will witness deliberations by nine foreign speakers from eight countries. Besides, it will also feature a number of well-known national voices. Time constraints may have limited the numbers, but not the depth or the diversity of perspective that is going to be on show as far as this event is concerned. The national speakers include former ambassadors, military veterans, industrialists, heads of PSUs. We are also fortunate that the CDD 2025 would also be graced and addressed by the Chief of Defence Staff, Chief of Army Staff, CEO of NITI Aayog, Defence Secretary, Mr. K. Vijay Raghavan, former PSA, Principal Scientific Advisor, Mr. Pankaj, former Deputy NSA. So, you have a whole lot of things on your plate. So, do come in and join. As far as the CDD 2025 is concerned, this year's dialogue is built on three pillars. Of course, we have five pillars, but I, I have reduced it to three pillars. Reform, that is the institutional, doctrinal, technological shifts to meet the emerging challenges. Empowerment, harnessing youth, which we have already done one event on this uh particular aspect. Innovation and civil-military fusion. Security, a whole of nation approach. And I, I dare say that the whole of nation approach is no more a cliché. I think it is a serious business, and we need to focus on it in the right way. And I hope this particular discourse is going to throw up, throw us some some very interesting outcomes, and a whole lot of Indian Army formations are also actually dwelling on military-civil fusion, and I'm sure by the end of this year, we will have something which will be uh, which will be worth incorporating into our planning. So, um, uh, before I invite uh, before I conclude, I would like to request the Chief of the Army Staff to kindly inaugurate the audiovisual trailer of Chanakya Defence Dialogue 2025. Jai Hind.

>> In a world of shifting power and evolving threats, Bharat leads with clarity, confidence and conviction. The Indian armed forces move forward, transforming through progressive reforms, building a Sashakt [Music] or Viksit Bharat, drawing inspiration from India's civilizational wisdom. Previous editions of the Chanakya Defence Dialogue have charted pathways for strategic foresight, cooperation and resilience. Today, we are crafting a roadmap for a future-ready India, policy frameworks for leadership, integrating AI, robotics and autonomous systems. The Indian Army is reshaping the art of modern warfare, powered by India's own satellites watching over every frontier, reforming the defense ecosystem, fostering indigenous innovation, and fueling India's rise as a global manufacturing hub. India's youth carry the promise of tomorrow, and the Indian Army leads this charge, empowering the youth to become catalysts of strength, guardians of progress, and champions of national pride. India is ready, driving integration, fostering innovation, and accelerating modernization for a force ready for multi-domain operations and a nation ready for the future. As Bharat rises to meet the challenges of a new age, the third edition of the Chanakya Defence Dialogue emerges as a beacon of reform, resilience, and renewal for a self-reliant, secure, and transformative tomorrow. [Music]

Thank you, Sir. We now move to one of the most awaited segments of the day. The curtain raiser today sets the tone of the Chanakya Defence Dialogue through a fireside chat with our Chief, General Upendra Dwivedi, where he will share his vision and his thoughts on the modernization and transformation of the Indian Army. A target that he has set to meet the security challenges as they unfold in current times. Moderating this special conversation is one of India's most respected and popular names in journalism and a voice we have all grown up listening to, Miss Shweta Singh, Senior Managing Editor of Aaj Tak. Ma'am, I request you to kindly join us on stage. With over 27 years in the media industry, Miss Shweta Singh is known for her insightful analysis, sharp questioning, and deep understanding of national and strategic affairs. She leads India's foremost news channel and also heads Good News Today. It is my privilege to also have with us here today General Upendra Dwivedi, Chief of the Army Staff. He is a leader who is deeply respected not only for his strategic vision and professional excellence but for the warmth, approachability, and genuine connection he shares not only with service personnel but with the youth as well. All his endeavors have been directed towards inspiring and empowering the officers and soldiers of the Army as well as the youth of the country, thereby investing into the future of Bharat. It is therefore a matter of immense pride to welcome him here with us today. Sir, I request you to please join us on stage now. Ladies and gentlemen, let's give them a huge round of applause.

>> We look forward to this discussion. With this, over to you, Ma'am.

>> Thank you. [Music] Fundraiser session at 2047. Seven. [Music] Year of transformation. Diplomatic information, economic base. Year of reform of transformation. Orch. Operation Pakistan. Opur 2.0 Newmalist, newmal street sponsored terrorism. Blood and water can't flow together. Talks and terror can't be together. Blackmail. 1.0 1.0 ongoing operation, army operation. Integration. Integration. Army, Navy, Air Force, CAPF, cyberspace, drone. Laschech. Investigations. Redford Number one. So, I think. Jammu and Kashmir. Maybe Army Commander, itarity investment, already colleges, IIT, IM, NF, as schools, NFT development, terrorist. Pakistan terrorist recruitment. Recruitment is recruitment. 4.3 lakhs, 4.13 lakhs. You redootperate youngsters. Youth will Jammu Kashmir, Kashmir. Good school. Engineers, doctors, commissioned. Line of Actual, Bat or Chin, Beachendra Jinping. Situation. October leaders, President. And she's in pink. Defense Minister, First Videshiplac. Defense diplomacy. Hard power diplomacy. October command, defense diplomacy. Hard power and soft power. Diplomacy, soft power, defense diplomacy, smart power diplomat. Relations. Visual. Yeah. Technical exchange, subject matter expert, United Nations. Complete normalcy, ground level. Commander level, commander, commander, grounds. Solution. Solution, disengagement, disengagement. Organization, Joint Secretary, Videshal. Working mechanism for consultation and coordination groups. Uh, it politics, handholding. Pradesh. Shroy festival. September. [Music] Those are police. Weapons, Austin month. But lovetheast, Bangladesh, instability. Myanmar, forch. Against. Theization. [Music] NB or VU. But information warfare, electromagnetic defense, efficiencies, ISRO, civil aviation, FCC. Learn. Learn, obviously. Navy. This future war. Future is here. But connection warfare, second-generation warfare, hybrid warfare, warfarevention, artificial civiliz, artificial intelligence. Future war. Transformation of like a social changeuring. Restructuring. Future warfare, drone. Warfare restructuring voids. Operation, Emergency. Procurement 2022. Human resource of technology, absorption of networking, or data-centricity. Output, final. Number one, Chief Leaders. No, bud. Budget. Absort marketed peacekeeping forces, peacekeeping, peacekeeping, UN structure, composition, Security Council, Nations, United Nations, contributing Ghmission. United Nations. Natural leader, United Nations. So, reforms, decade of transformation. Systemcess or jointness or integration. Ministry of Defense, Training Institute, military station. Navy, air, joint communication architecture. Friends for life. WhatsApp. Women empowerment. Women empowerment. [Music] Army women, comprehensive physical test, 26 CP PT6 digitization, automation procurement. Next financial year. Sir, Gen Zen, Gen Z, Gen Alpha, Generation X, Millennium or Zeneration. Socially conscious, digitally fluent, and globally connected. This generation, Indian Army, actually maybe school. Women entry. It's a combat role card. Gon stressful, concentrated. Report. Forch. Defense Secretary, America. Directly social Army. Smartphone. Smartphone. Smartphone. Social respond. Twitter, React or respond. Thank you. [Applause]

Thank you, Sir, for the frank and open insights on how the Indian Army's efforts and initiatives are leading the motto of "Reform to Transform," whether it is contribution to nation-building, defining the strategic deterrence with strategic autonomy, or the readiness and preparedness of the forces for the wars and conflicts of tomorrow. You also highlighted the balancing role of the Indian Army in managing internal situations with our volatile neighborhood and also spoke on how new domains of warfare, the need of theaterization, and India's roles in the growth and prosperity of the world as a responsible power. We are honored to have with us our guest, Shri Rajiv Chandrashekhar, former Minister of State, Government of India. With that, I would request our Chief, General Upendra Dwivedi, to kindly present a token of appreciation to Miss Shweta Singh for that excellent conversation. [Applause] Thank you, Sir. [Applause] Thank you, Sir. Thank you, Ma'am. May I now request the dignitaries to kindly move to the foyer for the group photograph? The audience is requested to please remain seated until the dignitaries have exited the hall. I am sure we were all enthralled by that fireside chat. I now invite all of you to join us for high tea, which has been laid out in the foyer. I would request everybody to kindly be back by 11:25, when we will continue with an insightful special address by Shri Rajiv Chandrashekhar, followed by an engaging panel discussion on "Atmanirbhar Bharat in Defence." Thank you.

>> I, I was told 20 minutes. Pardon? I repeat, I would request everybody to kindly be back in the auditorium by 11:45. Thank you. I repeat, a humble request to the audience to kindly put their mobile phones on silent mode and to please take their seats. We will resume shortly. Hey, hey, hey. That's better. Oh no. Oh no. Of course. Should we run it again right now?

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Like I said before, we have with us Shri Rajiv Chandrashekhar, and for his benefit, it would be our honor to play the curtain raiser CDD teaser once again.

[Music] In a world of shifting power and evolving threats, Bharat leads with clarity, confidence and conviction. The Indian armed forces move forward, transforming through progressive reforms, building a Sashakt [Music] or Viksit Bharat, drawing inspiration from India's civilizational wisdom. Previous editions of the Chanakya Defence Dialogue have charted pathways for strategic foresight, cooperation and resilience. Today, we are crafting a roadmap for a future-ready India, policy frameworks for leadership, integrating AI, robotics and autonomous systems. The Indian Army is reshaping the art of modern warfare, powered by India's own satellites watching over every frontier, reforming the defense ecosystem, fostering indigenous innovation, and fueling India's rise as a global manufacturing hub. India's youth carry the promise of tomorrow, and the Indian Army leads this charge, empowering the youth to become catalysts of strength, guardians of progress, and champions of national pride. India is ready, driving integration, fostering innovation, and accelerating modernization for a force ready for multi-domain operations and a nation ready for the future. As Bharat rises to meet the challenges of a new age, the third edition of the Chanakya Defence Dialogue emerges as a beacon of reform, resilience, and renewal for a self-reliant, secure, and transformative tomorrow. [Music]

Thank you. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. We now come to a moment that truly embodies the spirit of transformation, innovation, and national resolve that the Chanakya Defence Dialogue seeks to champion. Today, warfare and security challenges are undergoing a profound transformation. The rapid fuse of technologies, many of which are dual-use, has blurred the boundaries between military and civilian domains, between physical and digital battlefields, and between peace and conflict. In this evolving landscape where innovation determines strategic advantage, India's pursuit of Atmanirbhar Bharat has become not just a goal but a national imperative. It is therefore an honor to welcome a visionary leader who stands for this very spirit. Shri Rajiv Chandrashekhar is a fine blend of a politician, technocrat, and entrepreneur who has served as a Member of Parliament in the in the Rajya Sabha and as Minister of State in the Government of India for diverse portfolios focusing on steering India's semiconductor vision, digital governance architecture, cybersecurity framework, and national skilling initiatives. Beyond his governmental roles, Shri Chandrashekhar is a true son of the armed forces. Born into the fraternity himself, he continues to be closely associated with the military, voicing matters of veterans and their families for their welfare. As a committed philanthropist, his Flags of Honour Foundation supports the families of martyred soldiers, and the Nama Bengaluru Foundation collaborates with citizens at the grassroots level to enhance the civic and administrative landscape of Bengaluru. May I now invite Shri Rajiv Chandrashekhar to deliver his special address on "Securing India's Digital Frontiers and Strategic Convergence of Technology for National Security."

Good morning, uh, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, let me just start by saying I'm deeply grateful and and I extend my thanks for uh inviting me here to speak to such a distinguished audience and on a subject that I'm very passionate about. I have for several months now been exiled in a sense to a state called Kerala uh to undertake things that are very far away from tech and innovation uh as possible, but uh, so in a lot of ways uh getting an opportunity to speak about tech is uh, is, is, is something that I'm deeply pleased about and happy report. I've had the honor and privilege of uh serving in Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government for three and a half years. I had uh portfolios assigned to me of Skill Development, Jal Shakti, and Technology, and uh, I got a fairly decent inside view on what the challenges are and what the Government of India aims to do about these challenges. I was previously also a slightly ringside spectator as an MP into the same challenges, and before that, I was an entrepreneur for over a decade building wireless networks in the country, and I had some experience on how technology and security challenges intersect. So, let me start with a quote, and whenever I speak about tech and security, tech and challenges, I always start with this quote. It's a quote from 2016 by a person whom I know, I've known for about two decades now, and a person I deeply admire, our National Security Advisor, Mr. Ajit Doval. And he said in 2016 that the future battlefields, the victors of future battlefields will be those who have either technology strengths or economic muscle. And if it came to having to choose between the two, it will be a nation or a group or an organization that has the technology strengths that will prevail. And that precient forecast, that look, that prediction of the future is absolutely on the money and on the dot. I have my little five cents to add to that, which is that never before in the history of mankind has technology and the economy intersected so deeply as well. So, while for many, many decades and years, technology and the economy were semi-binaries. You could choose to be this or that, and if you were good in this, you would still be good enough to win. But the reality that of the world that we live in today is that the economy in itself is now deeply connected to technology, and in many ways, if you are not invested in tech, you are not relevant and competitive as an economy. And I will start with that one point before I get into the other points that I want to make. If you look at India's own economy and our progress and evolution, we are now closing the gap between the third largest economy and ourselves. We are the fourth largest economy in the world. While the traditional economy over the last decade has grown at a steady pace, the digital and innovation economy has grown at three times that pace. We were at less than 4% of total GDP accounted and counted as digital technology innovation, and in a few years from now, a fifth of our economy, over a trillion dollars of our GDP, will be directly linked to digital and tech. So, the reliance of growth economies like the US, like China, and closing the third into the third position, India is that bigger and bigger chunks of the economic value added and economic growth is coming from tech. So, resilience of an economy in a lot of sense is deeply connected to the resilience of its tech ecosystem. So, I just want to leave that thought for you to think about, and that it is no longer an academic conversation about how tech and economy are related, should work together, etc., etc. These are intertwined in ways that have never been seen in the history of mankind and the history of our world. As a telecom entrepreneur, I had some experiences in how tech helped security and law enforcement. And I'll give you two examples of the early 2000s and late '90s, just to make the point that tech and security have always been connected. When Advani Ji's bomb blast, uh, assassination attempt happened in Coimbatore in the late '90s, I was the CEO and the chairman of a telecom operator, and we, on the fly, to help the IB, made a store and forward application that would intercept all the SMSs, and that led to the investigation in in prosecution of the criminals involved. Similarly, very soon after that, there was a notorious criminal called Veerappan, and uh, police of many states were struggling to find him, detect him, and it took two engineers to sit down, do a triangulation software, uh, piece, and then isolate him, identify him, and locate him. And then obviously, the police then stepped in. So, tech and security, tech and law enforcement have always had a relationship. Everybody here knows that almost every element of civilian technology today that we consider civilian technology, the internet, semiconductors, computers, have all had their genesis in a defense application or requirement. The US defense, of course, the DARPA. So, almost every piece of what we consider today civilian technology has had its origins in the defense and security establishment saying, "We want tech in our overall processes and systems." So, tech has had an incredibly long relationship with security, but two things have changed. One is the application of tech. For many, many years, it was restricted to, we all know this, comms, communication, then situational awareness, fusion, sensors, and safety. So, broadly, there were three areas of application that tech was deployed for, and the balance of power, because miltech was so much more expensive, so not so easily available, the balance of power was always with those who had tech versus the bad guys. If you ask me today, what has changed? The relationship between security and tech has not changed. The need hasn't changed. But what has certainly happened over the last, let us say, five to seven years, and very dramatically so, is the barriers of entry for the bad guys, and I use the word phrase "bad guys" in a very general sense. It's not just about China and Pakistan implying that they are the bad guys, at least in my book. Uh, but the barriers of entry to these tech, and therefore the balance has almost inalterably shifted. There was a reference made about how consumerization of tech is blurring the difference between what conventional battlefields use and what asymetric warfare protagonists use. I would like to prop say to you today that in, it's almost underway, there's going to be no difference. The core tech behind every application today is going to be almost same. That is what enabled October 7th. That is what is enabling the Houthis in the Middle East. They don't have huge budgets. They don't have DARPA. They don't have DRDO. They don't need any of that. They're essentially buying off-the-shelf components, off-the-shelf platforms, and bringing large conventional military doctrine, military forces, military systems almost on an equal bearing. And I think that is the big change that tech has and innovation has altered the world, altered the battlefield, altered the the domain of security in almost an inalterable manner, and that is only going to continue to deepen and change. I will, I don't have uh very much time, so I will lay out five trend lines that I think we should think about and talk about as challenges. I certainly don't want to talk about any solutions. Number one is that tech intensity, the intensity of technology is only going to increase. It is not reducing. It is not going to flatline. There is not going to be a steady state where we can say, ah, we've reached a point where no more tech. This is what we can anticipate, and this is what we should plan for and counter. Uh, tech intensity in the economy, tech intensity in trade, and tech intensity in terms of what the bad guys use and have and have and use will only keep deepening and increasing for a period of about decades. Tech morphed from black box proprietary technology that the Americans pioneered, the Russians had, into almost one and a half, two decades of open-source tech, which is anybody could build. The core tech was open-source. The real-time operating systems were open source. You could customize it, build on it. And therefore, you did not need deep technological expertise to develop a platform. You could still take pieces from the open-source ecosystem and build what you call your own. But that trend, as well, is dramatically shifting with AI, and especially with proprietary AI models that some of the large American companies are building, consolidating, growing, and further consolidating should worry us that we've moved from one phase of proprietary to a period of open source, back to proprietary. And this is certainly a shift which is playing to the advantage of countries like China and the US, and is something for us to be deeply concerned about. The third trend line, as I said already, is that there is an absolute blurring. There is no longer a distinct line between miltech and what we call consumer civilian tech. And uh, the basic platform now will remain almost certainly off-the-shelf, available to everybody, accessible by everybody. But the core differentiator will be what that platform does at the edge. The kind of intelligence it has at the edge. And so, while we talk about autonomous systems or tethered autonomous systems or untethered autonomous systems, it is not about autonomy of operation alone. It is about autonomy of decision-making and autonomy of action. And that is the future. And uh, certainly, a lot of collaborative work between the civilian establishment, the private sector innovator, and the specialized deep tech DRDO type establishment is almost certainly necessary. It is almost becoming the normal that that type of a partnership is the only way to move forward. I don't have to say this, but I'm sure everybody in this room recognizes this. The fourth trend line is battlefields are, and I should have said this first, battlefields are certainly not the battlefields of the old days. Battlefields that we see in October 7th, except for the Ukraine-Russia war, which is, in my opinion, a take on World War II or World War I or whatever they wanted to call it. But every other conflict today that is disrupting trade, supply chains, uh, economies, laying waste to uh, you know, like I said, trade in economies, is driven by asymmetry. It is driven by technology that is completely consumer-grade that has been weaponized and modified. And so, that is something that is only again going to deepen and grow. The access to technologies. I mean, in the past, when we talked about semiconductors, we talked about electronics, we talked about encryption, comms, uh, as I said, in the in the in the early part of what I said, these were accessible to the select. And that, that miltech-grade kind of technologies was only available to a few. Now, that has completely changed. When somebody on the flight uh to Delhi was giving me a yearful about how the intelligence agencies had failed and in the recent uh Red Fort bombing, and you know, the government should be held to account. This is part of the perils of being a politician. You have to listen to everybody in a flight. Uh, so I waited for him to finish venting, and I said, "You do not understand the challenges today's law enforcement and security and intelligence agencies deal with." In the past, it was much easier because, like I said, all of the technology advantages were with the establishment, and today it is the reverse. Uh, and with messaging, encrypted messaging platforms, with the ability to uh, assume identities, the open internet where they can do anything they want with, including misinformation, these are not trivial challenges anymore. And the, the requirement of technology, uh, therefore, that's the next, that's the last trend I was talking about, which is for many, many years, when we talk about Indian capability, and I'll connect these two points that I made earlier. Uh, when we talk about technology capability, we talked about IT, IT services. When we talk about electronics, we talk about different types of assembling platforms. But the talent and the know-how that is required for tech in the coming years is going to be deep, deep tech and knowledge. So, it is not e, it's not enough to know how to code a thousand lines of code. It is not enough that you slap together a system using components from all over. Uh, the, the requirements of the future security technology is going to require very, very deeply talented know-how, deeply talented uh, people. Uh, the research and the ecosystem that backs that type of uh, deeply talented people, including laboratories. I will end by making a few broad points about where we are as a country vis-à-vis other countries in the neighborhood. We are a democracy. We are proud of it. We have an open internet. We have over a billion Indians who use the internet. We are the largest block on the global internet. A trillion dollars of our economy will depend on this internet operating through this internet. Whether it is Zomato, Swiggy, whatever you want to use as metaphors or proxies for it. But the internet, as we saw during the Russia-Ukraine war, can be weaponized against a nation by the US, the internet. So, that is one risk, one challenge that we ought to be aware of. The second is the internet has also become a playground for deliberate state mis, state-led misinformation operations, state-led influence operations. When 900 million Indians or a billion Indians are on the internet, it doesn't require an enemy or enemy state or an enemy organization too many resources to create chaos in India. With existing fault lines, it's extremely simple and extremely easy for a state or a state-backed organization to plum misinformation on this on our internet. And on the other hand, countries like China from the get-go have walled off their internet. Is it extremely difficult to access the internet? It's very, very regulated, and is almost certainly almost impossible for you to do a similar influence operation, whether the CIA does a circus or anybody else wants to do it, is extremely difficult to do it in China, and extremely easy to do it in democracies like India. So, that is the second point I, I wanted to make. And the third point in terms of just distinguishing where we are and what we see the future to be in terms of challenges vis-à-vis neighborhood, it is clear, you are all professionals, you know the clearly that India's rise as an economic power, India's rise to the third largest economy of the world will not be unchallenged. There are many, many forces that want to trip us up. There are many, many forces that want to slow down that rise. And so, even if it is not conflict, even if it is not conventional terrorism, even if assume that those two are known risks and known dangers and known challenges, there is a certain, certainly a very, very high degree of possibility that there will be influence operations conducted simply to slow India's rise down. So, how do, how does India counter that? How does the Indian security establishment identify and counter that? How do we address the issue of weaponization of the internet? And if AI goes the way it is going, and AI becomes again the domain where one or two nations control these fundamental foundational models, uh, what does that mean for democracies of the world? It is often said that the future of tech should be led by democracies of the world. It is often said, and I remember in 2018, in a Quad meeting in Tokyo, uh, having a warm, fuzzy meeting with the Quad members and saying, "We are all democracies, and we should shape the future of tech," and we all hugged each other and we said, "Yes, we should do that." And it turns out that it is, uh, the Americans themselves who are today talking about controlling uh, access to AI and and really putting forth a policy where they want to concentrate the future on AI in, in the US, while China does their counterweight. So, these are the growing trends. The internet, the semiconductors, electronics, optics, sensors, propulsion, AI. These are all the leading technology domains that require not only deeply talented professionals, deeply talented research ecosystem to back them, but also going to be the technologies that are going to shape the future landscape of uh, security and uh, and uh, law enforcement. So, I, if you let me speak, I have a tendency to go on about these things. So, I will put the brakes on this now, and uh, I will just repeat again what I said in the beginning. I'm deeply grateful for an opportunity to speak about these subjects that I'm deeply passionate about. Thank you all. Jind. [Applause]

>> Yes, Sir. Thank you. Thank you, Sir, for providing valuable insights on the intertwined web of technology, economy, and security. You also highlighted the contribution of the digital economy and also how technology continues to change the battlefield. The five trend lines you identified are surely perceptive and actionable for everybody in the room. I would now request our Chief, General Upendra Dwivedi, to kindly join us on the stage and present a token of appreciation to Shri Rajiv Chandrashekhar. [Applause] Thank you, Sir.

We now move to one of the three core pillars of the clarion call given by our Honorable Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi. The vision encapsulated in the acronym J for Jointness, A for Atmanirbhar Bharat, and I for Innovation. Our next panel in this curtain raiser will delve into "Atmanirbhar Bharat in Defence," which is the key to Sashakt Bharat through the vision of our three panelists today, rooted in self-reliance and indigenous innovation. This session will examine Atmanirbhar Bharat not merely as an industrial or manufacturing objective but as a strategic imperative and a national responsibility. The discussion will be chaired by Lieutenant General Rahul Raj Singh, Ati Vishisht Seva Medal, Vishisht Seva Medal, the Deputy Chief of the Army Staff, Capability Development and Sustenance. Sir, I would request you to kindly join us on the stage. Joining him on this distinguished panel, signifying the triad of defense excellence, science, industry, and innovation, are three eminent thought leaders. We have with us today Dr. Chandrika Kaushik, Distinguished Scientist and Director General, Product Coordination and Services Integration at the Defence Research and Development Organisation. She has led cutting-edge work in electronic warfare, strategic communications, and indigenous surveillance technologies, and it is our honor to welcome her on the stage. We are also joined by Mr. Ashish Rajvanshi, CEO of Adani Defence and Aerospace. A fulcrum of transforming India's defense industry into a global powerhouse. Recipient of the 2025 CEO of the Year Award. He brings with him extensive experience in consulting and a global perspective to nation-building. Finally, we have with us Professor Manan Suri, who leads the Neuromorphic Hardware Research Group at IIT Delhi, shaping and inspiring the next generation of technological innovators. Recognized as one of the world's top 35 innovators under 35 by MIT USA. He's also the founder of Siren AI Solutions, that won the Raksha Mantri's Award for Excellence in Aerospace and Defense sectors. We all look forward to a very engaging panel discussion. Over to you, Sir.

>> Thank you. The Vice Chief of Army Staff, DG CLAWS, distinguished officers, and audience. It's indeed a matter of great privilege for us to address this very important issue after a very power-packed morning session wherein we heard the Chief with his candid and eloquent views regarding a range of issues that the Indian Army is sort of addressing. It's now time to move on uh to a very important issue that he highlighted and which forms part of this uh poster right behind and placed right in the center: Atmanirbhar Bharat. Mr. Mr. Chandrashekhar also talked about it albeit in a different manner uh regarding technology and the importance of having Atmanirbhar Bharat in technology. Uh, so uh, the theme of today's session is "Atmanirbhar Bharat in Defence: Key to Sashakt Bharat." And of course, it's a great honor for me to be moderating this particular session with three very eminent panelists uh about whom you just heard uh their their biodata, so there can be nobody better than them to address this particular topic. Uh, the way I propose to conduct this particular session is that I'll give out some uh brief thoughts to set the stage, after which I would request the panelists to give out their thoughts very briefly, and then we'll uh get talking about a few issues, and while I talk to them, uh, we would also invite a few views of the audience at the same time. So, uh, let me start with what the Chief said, and also what Mr. Chandrashekhar said, and what's right behind me is Viksit Bharat 2047. If that is the destination where we need to reach, and which has been quantified by the NITI Aayog, the pillars that they have sort of quantified are, we need to be a $30 trillion economy. Our per capita income needs to rise to $18,000 per head. Right now, we are just below $3,000, and our uh GDP is approximately uh nearing $4 trillion. So, it's a long distance that we have to traverse. We need to grow at 8%. And what uh Mr. Chandrashekhar said a few minutes ago, that when you are traversing this journey, the security threats are going to be large. They're going to be multiple domains, and if we are to counter those threats in multiple domains, we need our own indigenous systems to do that. You cannot dream of becoming a developed nation simply by borrowed technologies or borrowed wherewithal. Our nation's resolve to become a self-reliant defense power has never been stronger. India, which used to import 70 to 80% of its military wherewithal, has now become nearly self-sufficient as far as the defense equipment is concerned, and also so exporting a large number of items. But I would like to look at it in a different perspective. When we look at in defense context, we often restrict ourselves to manufacturing numbers, to percentage indigenization, local content, import substitution, etc. But Atmanirbhar Bharat in defense is not an end to itself. It is a means to achieve strategic autonomy, ensuring that in times of crisis, our options are not constrained by external dependencies. It's about the confidence that the weapons our armed forces employ are designed, manufactured on our soil by our own scientists and engineers, meeting the specific operational requirements and terrain conditions. It is about creating an industrial base that provides employment to lakhs of citizens, contributes to economic growth, and generates a pool of skilled, technologically enabled manpower. It's about fostering innovation across ecosystems. And most fundamentally, it's about deterrence. A nation that commands comprehensive indigenous defense capability sends an unambiguous signal to potential adversaries that we possess the capacity to defend our interests decisively and sustainably, and that our strategic choices will not be constrained by concerns about supply chain, spare parts availability, or external diplomatic pressures. For today's discussion, I would like you all to view it through this broader lens of strategic sovereignty. That is, the capacity to conceive, design, produce, deploy, and sustain systems and capabilities that meet our nation's threat environment on our terms. Let me give an example of Operation Sindhur. In the operations, Indian Army or Indian armed forces, I would say, accomplished its objective expeditiously and professionally. The Chief made a point, we achieved our objectives in 88 hours, precise. What stood out was not only the precision of strike but the coherence of action in the entire DIME T paradigm, that is, the diplomatic, information, military, economic. It used to be DIME, but it is DIME T, technology, what Mr. Chandrashekhar spoke about a few minutes ago. Uh, that was this entire DIME bar was on the same page. The lesson when our decision-makers, armed forces, and other elements of national power, including industries, align, we gain strategic advantage. In many of these actions that took place, indigenous systems played a critical role. It proved that Atmanirbhar Bharat translates directly to strategic autonomy, the freedom to act decisively when the security situation demands without seeking external clearances. While this was job well done, resulting in a resounding victory, there are a few infirmities that we need to address: extended timelines, integration hurdles, limited upgrade paths, and continued reliance on import for certain high-end technology. We live in a world riddled with unpredictability. And as the quote goes, in realpolitik, there are no permanent friends or wars. There are only permanent interests. The risk is clear. Reliance on external actors during a crisis can restrict not only our capability but also choice, speed, and operational freedom. This gap marks the next frontier of Atmanirbhar Bharat. Not about making more in India, but building the technological, institutional, and industrial depth to operate independently, resiliently, and on our terms. India's defense industry can no longer be content with assembling components or licensing technology. We must move from manufacture to innovation, from dependence to design sovereignty. And that shift is not simply about what we build, but how we build. I underscore, how it is on our own terms. Let me briefly touch upon research and development, private sector, startup, academy, and ecosystem integration. An innovative ecosystem thrives on speed, agility, and trust, and more so in the current scenario when technology is growing at a very, very fast pace. The operator, the scientist, the engineer, and the entrepreneur must all be part of a single loop, learning from the field, refining prototypes, testing iteratively, and deploying rapidly. The traditional linear method of requirement, design, testing, procurement must give way to a continuous cyclic process of co-creation between the user and the innovator. An art mastered by Israel. The Israeli DRDO, academia, industry, startup, and defense forces work in close harmony, converting ideas to reality in quick time frames and refining them post-field testing. To conclude, I have raised three issues which we will deliberate uh further during the course of this discussion. First, strategic autonomy through Atmanirbhar Bharat. Second, need of a collaborative approach among all the

stakeholders. And finally, moving away from traditional buyers' relationship to a co-creator sort of a relationship.

With this, I will now invite the panelists to give their opening remarks, after which we will get on with the with further deliberations. May I now request Dr. Chandria Koshik to share her views on the topic.

Thank you. Uh, very good morning to everyone. It's actually become good afternoon. Uh, very happy to be here sharing some of our thoughts. Uh, deputy chief mentioned about strategic sovereignty, what is required, and Mr. Rajiv Chandhar also talked about it in terms of the digital domain, IT domain. We all agree that this is required. The question is, how do we achieve it?

The same skill set. Indians, when we are abroad, we are able to deliver whatever is required. So, we have the resources, we have the intent, the government has a stated policy, and we are trying to make things happen to ensure that we have strategic sovereignty.

There was a point with respect to integration of all the four contributors which are required: the users, the R&D setup, academia, and industry. So, within TRDO and MOD, we have tried to integrate the academia and industry in our ecosystem, and I would take some credit for integrating the industry. The DCPP scheme, what was introduced in 2016, has helped the industry to become a part of the deliveries of the systems that are required by the armed forces to some extent. The process that is required to make sure that what is required today, there is a clear road map from laying down the requirements, the DND process to induction, has got outlined, and we are seeing seeing some successes with that.

We are also trying to integrate the academia in a multifaceted way. We have 15 centers of excellence which are engaged in specific verticals with respect to what are the technology outcomes that are required, not today, but for the upcoming times. So, seeding the technology for the future is happening. We also have multiple other mechanisms whereby we engage with the academic institutions, be the contracted research with the academia or the R&D boards which are there in different disciplines: armament, aeronautics, naval sciences. So, academia is kind of geared up for bringing out what is required by us. So, to that extent, academia is fully in tune. The DCPPS are now in tune with us to say what are the products that are required, and a whole lot of MSMES and startups are integrated in the development of subsystems, niche technologies that are required. And this is happening at multiple levels as a part of the development contracts which are happening from the labs with respect to specific subsystems, with respect to different technology modules, tools, wherever capability is existing in the industry, the development is given as built to spec for the Indian industry, and we can straight away plug in. You take any typical, let's talk about Akash weapon system, we have DGAD sitting here. So, typically, we will have about 300 odd industries participating in the overall ecosystem, subsystem technologies, components. It is a complex system, and I would say that today DRDO is in the unique position by having multiple laboratories working across different disciplines, different domains, to be able to integrate the different technologies that are required towards making a complex system. It is a system of systems approach.

So, we have done our bit. We need to examine, and I would say that Chanakya dialogues is the right forum to identify and do a root cause analysis as to where are the gaps today in the processes which is still hampering our progress towards reaching the goal of Atmanirbhar Bharat. What are the bottlenecks and how do we remove them? We have made steady progress, but maybe something more needs to be done.

Uh, couple of suggestions I would recommend: if we could have user inputs embedded in the development phase with the development teams who can kind of work in the projects right from beginning to end. Technology development needs continuity. It cannot happen in bits and pieces. While I understand and appreciate the manpower challenges which are there for the armed forces, they have to go through their own training, different kind of deputations, different kind of requirements for them to in their overall career plan. Maybe we need to find a mechanism whereby technical people with a bent of mind to participate in the R&D need to be embedded with the development teams and continue till they reach the logical conclusion, till it till industry takes over.

For industry to be interested in participating, industry needs to see a viable business case in any development. So, the processes that we have for development and induction, are they suitable for the Indian industries to participate? Are they able to, at the end of it, they are a money-making organization. If they can't make money, uh, it would not be proper for them to expect only to be able to give. So, are the processes viable enough for the Indian industry to participate in the D&D and the production process? So, these are a couple of things that we may need to examine as a part of the wider deliberations in the Chanakya dialogues, and if I think if we can find some suitable answers to this, we would have sorted part of the problem.

Already, we have moved from "Made in India" to "Make in India." There is a whole lot of emphasis on the indigenous design, development, indigenous capability coming in. How do we need, how do we ensure that it is executed in a manner that meets the aspirations of everyone? The users need equipment in today's time, while it's perfectly all right, and we need to ensure that we have capability today. What do we need to do to make sure that we have this capability for tomorrow from an indigenous source? Are we doing enough to ensure that what we are buying today from any source, even if it's an imported source, at least today, tomorrow, 2 years down the line, 5 years down the line, we have enough programs launched to ensure that indigenous capability comes in?

There is no debate on having sovereign capability in the D&D space, and my firm assertion to this forum today is that we have all the ingredients to get it going. We only need to tweak the recipe a little bit more. I think we have already crossed the 50% mark. Whatever is left out is more in terms of processes, and there we have to ensure that the different processes in different organizations. What we are doing within DRDO has to now become the integration of processes across four verticals to come up with a process which meets the aspirations of all and also to be able to deliver the capability that is required. I think if that is what we need to spend some time and energy on, and if we can get that recipe right, I'm sure it's only a question of time where we'll be able to have technology supremacy, all indigenous systems made by Indian industry based on inputs from Indian academia. That's the way to go. That's my submission.

>> Uh, thank you, ma'am. Those were uh, real pertinent points made. You did talk about uh, how you, how the private industry has been incorporated along with DRDO, how academia has been incorporated. Uh, but the moot question remains, is it enough or not? And we'll discuss this a little later. Uh, but before I move on to uh, Mr. Raj, just a a brief point to you and uh, just before we met, uh, over tea, I was telling Dr. Koshik that uh, uh, she is a PhD in, in, uh, the entire Atmanirbhar Bharat stuff. I mean, I, I really mean it. She has a lot of experience as far as going, what is needed for Atmanirbhar Bharat. So, uh, if I was just to ask you that you talked about tweaking the processes, and you are at a place where you can actually give a lot of meaningful suggestions. So, may I request you for uh, two or three suggestions that you have, the process that you talked about, or would you like to uh, please do two or three important points that you think require tweaking in our system right now? And we are, the chief mentioned about it, year of reforms, we have the DAP 2020 getting sort of amended. So, from your point of view, from DRDO's point of view, what are those two or three things that you recommend?

Okay, I would recommend three things, and actually part of them I covered also. One is user involvement and integration with the project development teams from womb to tomb, and the teams should be empowered to take decisions in the field. That is one. Secondly, we have been, there's a lot of, I would say, industry is wanting to participate in the DCPPS in a manner that it is becoming counterproductive. People are willing to participate in the development contract at zero point one paisa for something that would cost a few crores. That's the kind of thing. So, that is, we need to find out a way where we have to overcome this penchant for negative costing of the systems. So, this is something that is a problem which we need to address. I would suggest that if in all our development DCP projects, wherever there's a clear requirement and there are clear quantities that are there, we have one DPSU and one private sector. So that while we have intrinsic capability in the DPSUs for every vertical, one private sector industry must also emerge so that the overall capability in the industrial ecosystem grows. And this is a suggestion that we have made to the committee which is looking at the DAP. I get both pros and cons against this suggestion, and finally, in the absence of being able to take a decision, we go with the status quo of a competitive process. That is the norm today. But I think in the overall long run, if we have to have at least one, one lead industry, as they call industry primes in the western world, we have to have one private sector which has to come up in each of the verticals. That is something that we should look at.

Academia, I think, is already fully ingrained. We have to just bring out the problem statements better. We need to have more integration into the ecosystem. That, I think, is something that we could work on further. We need to understand the problems from an operational perspective so that how the, what technology can actually meet your current day requirements. So, I think that is one more area where we, some more integration would help.

>> Thank you, ma'am. Thank you very much. And just taking on the first point that you made with respect to having a team which is deeply ingrained along with the DRDO, that's a point well made. Unfortunately, because of the type of tenures and the type of aspirations, professional aspirations within the services, uh, the army has, this is a typical challenge, but we are trying to address it. And you'd be glad to know there are a large number of officers who are getting extended tenures. And I can actually, I was discussing with the DG Aad a few days ago, there are officers whom I saw as a brigadier who were involved in some of the projects and still continue. So, that's nearly eight or nine years they have been involved, may not be in the same project, but uh, interconnected projects. So, that is an aspect that we have taken note of and we are going to sort of get it further so that, from at least till, uh, the the project reaches a level of production, at least he's involved with it. That's, that's our sort of endeavor.

Uh, may I now request Mr. Ashish Rajani to share his opening thoughts, please? Can I use the rest?

>> Please do. Distinguished chiefs, respected officers, defenders of India's horizon. Good afternoon.

There are rare moments in history when the world doesn't rarely move, it leaps. And we stand at such a threshold today. The world is shifting in ways that even the most seasoned strategist could not have fully predicted. The coming together of technology, geopolitics, and the changing demography is not just rewriting the rules of power. It's transforming the nature of security and sovereignty. We are not here to adapt to the imaginable. We are here to prepare for the unimaginable. The strategic surprise is already reshaping tomorrow. And let me share three key inflection points in this road map.

Number one, the surprise of invisible infinite fronts. The image of a two-front war is now an artifact of the past. The battlefield today is borderless, seamless, and often anonymous. Attackers need not cross the borders. They can infiltrate our networks, our satellites, and our minds. Imagine a cyber strike from a distant continent, disabling signals in our border area. Swarms of drones launched in coordination with cyber strike, as played out recently in Ukraine, paralyze an entire grid in minutes. These are not isolated events. This is the new doctrine. Containment, once a military doctrine, must now become digital, cognitive, and a policy doctrine. The next generation deterrence will not rest solely on weapon platforms, but on integration across data, domain, and decision networks. If attacks are now diffused, unpredictable, and decentralized, can our defense remain rigid and centralized? Honorable chief referred to decentralized decision-making and agility in the front line, and hence the whole war, the whole warfare and the philosophy has to change.

Number two, the surprise of cognitive warfare. Conflict is shifting from battlefield to the minefield. Cognitive warfare aims not merely to destroy, but to deceive, distort, and disrupt perception itself. Cognitive warfare is already upon us, waged through misinformation, microtargeted propaganda, and the weaponization of digital networks. The fusion of man, machine, and algorithm means that decisions will increasingly be taken not just by the commanders, but by cognitive systems through data. A connected architecture of unmanned aerial systems, unmanned naval systems, unmanned ground systems, powered by real-time artificial intelligence-driven data leaks, could one day, or in fact, already happening, outpace human reaction time itself. Tomorrow's soldier will fight not just with weapons, but with bandwidth and data sense. Leadership in this domain will belong to forces who see both seen and unseen, who can filter signal from noise before the enemy can act.

Inflection point three, the surprise of the demographic technology divide. Wars of the future will not be won by the strongest, but by the fastest learners. Experience and wisdom will continue to matter, but agility, adaptability, and tech fluency will determine victory. The operational environments of tomorrow, dominated by swarm drones, quantum computing, and multi-domain operations, demand neural agility more than physical endurance. The minds most attuned to this reality are those between 15 and 25 years of age, digital natives for whom coding, gaming, and simulation are second nature. Honorable chief referred to Gen Z, who are socially conscious, globally connected, and digitally savvy. How do we look at the future armed forces? It's going to define how we integrate the Gen Z into the Gen X, and leadership must evolve not by age, but by adaptation.

Towards the closure, strategic foresight is no longer optional. It's a weapon that decides who leads in the coming decades. Honorable chief mentioned hard power and soft power becomes the smart power, and we need to take note of this. The world ahead will not unfold in a straight line. It will leap ahead in quantum jumps. And for those anchored in inertia, this will be unsettling. For those similar to the Indian army who see this as an opportunity, this is the new dawn of possibility, power, and preparedness. Thank you so much.

Uh, thank you, Mr. Rajani. I think those were some very good points made with respect to being prepared for the unimaginable. In fact, uh, that is what is panning out each day. There are surprises that, uh, that come to the fore. You also mentioned about, uh, bandwidth and data being absolutely important, and we'll talk about it a little later, and the importance of being fast learners. How quickly can we get, uh, various technologies onto the battlefield is very, very important, and we will talk about it a little later, uh, when I come to you, uh, with a question as far as part of the dialogue.

Uh, may I now request Professor Mansuri for his opening thoughts? You can do it from there, please.

>> Thank you, sir. Uh, good afternoon to distinguished officers. Uh, thanks to CLAWS for giving me this opportunity and to, you know, fellow panelists and all other guests in attendance. You know, this whole subject of indigenization, Atmanirbhar Bharat in defense, I like to see it from the lens of life cycle. What is the life cycle of this issue? So, uh, I see you can break it down into four steps. The first step is the sensitization, the awareness, uh, recognizing the importance or clearly describing the requirements, uh, to the developer or the innovative community. That is the first step. The second step is that, uh, co-development, as ma'am also mentioned, working along with the services, MVPs, prototyping. The third stage is induction, contracts, deploying, operationalizing. And the fourth stage is feedback, reiteration, and a very important thing that is scaling up. Because if we are serious about the deep tech defense ecosystem, the single most important term here is sustainability. The ecosystem needs to sustain. It needs to sustain itself as a self-running, well-oiled machinery, and for that, scalability is very important.

So, now, if we look at these, uh, four steps, you know, uh, I'll throw some light where's the good news at, and then where we need to work more. The good news is at the first two steps, you know, the sensitization aspect or awareness. So, in the last few years, tremendous amount of interaction, good interaction between the user community and the innovative developer, uh, community is happening. You know, programs like iDEX or ADs, Indian Army cells in IITs, the TD PDFs. These are some fantastic initiatives, and this momentum needs to keep going. They need to be strengthened because this is for the first time, for a change, the tech developer community or the civilian community gets to really understand what are the operational significance. What is the rigor with which things need to be developed? So, we get, I would say, we get full points over that sensitization part. That is where the good things are happening. The second part is the prototyping or the MVP, that is the programs like iDEX, TDF, you know, Make. So, there also some good action is happening.

Now, where we really need to work upon is the third, that is the contracts, induction. Uh, the back side of this, it's think of it as a funnel. The funnel at the back side, at the problem statement stage, is quite wide, but the pipe in front of it needs to be, you know, thickened or the diameter of the pipe in front needs to thicken, now become more thicker. So, now, what, what are some pertinent things that need to be taken up in the last two phases, that is induction and, you know, the sustainability or the scalability of it?

The first thing, obviously, also pointed out before, is the, uh, the HR issue, which is the continuity of specialists. Specialists from the user side. We need to have those specialists in the, you know, even all the way till up to post-contract management stages, with the same people who were at the drawing board when the requirements were first being, uh, imagined. For, for whatsoever reason, if there is a natural discontinuity, you know, it, it goes back. So, that is the HR aspect is the, is the one thing. The other thing where is, is the IPR policies. Deep tech, deep tech ecosystem thrives on IPR as a capital, on repeat monetization of IPR as a capital. We need to acknowledge this fact, and industry, innovators, academia, they need to have, they need to be treated with more sensitive IPR policies, right? And, uh, you know, now, another important point is, very important point, very crucial point. The chief mentioned about the fifth, you know, generation of resources for warfare. You know, we talk about things like AI, cyber, quantum. You know, AI, cyber, quantum, all these things are extremely, they are emerging technologies, and they're probabilistic. So, when you start playing in the field with a probabilistic technology, unlike all means of warfare which were more deterministic, you need to come up with a new set of tactics and a new set of assessment tools. So, tactics is extremely important. We need to ask ourselves these questions. The, now, the thing with tactics is that they can come only from the operational community, not from the other side. So, that is something which needs to be, uh, strengthened. And it was like, I've had the fortune to interact with, you know, several training institutes, whether it is the, uh, the NDA, IMA, CME, CDM, DSSC, and it's just heartening to see the amount of grassroots change that they are doing in technology, talking about technology, you know, building, uh, drones, building AI projects. But we need to be mindful that while to understand technology, the playing around is fine, but very soon the focus from the operational side should shift on the tactics. Let the professional community build and give you at at cost advantage or at high production. Uh, don't get carried away with the building aspect of it. Rather focus completely on the tactics aspect of it, because, you know, with with probabilistic technologies, the difference between a winning warfare or is is not the quality of the probabilistic technology. Probability has no quality. There is no legal definition of a probability, right? It's, it's what tactics you use to your advantage to play with the new set of, uh, weapons. You cannot have old old tactics again. And the same thing gets linked with assessment, uh, tools. What assessment tools we have when we look or scout for a technology or how we treat it. You know, the, if, if the army or the services have to look at one analogy on what we need to fix for the tech absorption, I think it's, it's very well what they're already doing on the operational front. Let me just give you an example. We, when we talk about the, uh, indigenization, the unification of command, the naturally the answer to the operational experts come that first the SOPs or the chain of command needs to be streamlined, right? And only then you go with the theater. The same policy you have to adopt on technology absorption side. We are talking about four different stakeholders. We're talking about academia, startups, PSUs, and industry. So, do we have an SOP unification when we look at them? If our processes, if our DAPs, if our DPMs are again going to look at them with very different lenses, we are going to miss out. We are going to have the same problem. While we may have the intent that they all work together, when it comes to an operational contract or an operational tender, the, the desire to have that seamless options available, the same way the SOPs or the lenses with which all stakeholders are looked at, that, that needs to be. And, and somewhere that goes to, you know, what ma'am was mentioning, the costing aspects or, uh, so assessment instruments are, are very, uh, important. And, uh, again, a mindset thing, uh, from the operational side, the services side, it's more important to focus on, uh, how to exploit rather than how to, uh, build. So, you know, we talk about Atmanirbhar Bharat in the technology building, but there is also an angle of Atmanirbhar Bharat on how to use any technology for your use case, what is your tactic which can be very unique to the Indian, uh, conditions. So, those are, those are some thoughts that, that I'd like to share.

>> Uh, thank you so much, Professor. In fact, uh, kudos to you to have spelt out these things so in a very, very precise manner. Uh, with respect to your concerns about the IPR as a capital, this particular thing is getting addressed as far as the revisions are concerned in the acquisition process, and we are trying to look at, uh, the R&D and a normal procurement through different lenses. So, that's, that's something which is going on, and due credits will be given for the IPR issue.

Um, and you mentioned that, uh, as far as the awareness is concerned, as far as our connect with, uh, the ecosystem is concerned, has improved. So, uh, the ADG ADB will be very, very delighted with that. That, of course, that step one and two has taken, but the third and fourth step mentioned by you, we are working very, very hard on it. Absorption of technology, in fact, is one mandate which all of us here, sitting in the led by the vice chief, that we are looking at very, very intimately. Uh, it is not that you get a product and thereafter you look at how to, you know, mold your technology around it. It is what we need to do, and that is what, that is the technology that we need. That is the, uh, emphasis on our work.

So, let me start the dialogue with you, Professor. You are an expert on AI. So, what, in your, in your views, are the most critical AI applications that India should prioritize to maintain a technological edge in defense? And how can we ensure security of, uh, you know, data, etc., when you are inducting such AI solutions? Because you mentioned that armed forces should concentrate on utilizing rather than being involved in development, but in case if you have to utilize artificial intelligence, it requires a lot of data set. All the, the large amount of data set which is there is all classified. So, how do we sort of overcome this particular challenge? And you are an expert on this field. So, let's hear your views on this.

>> Sure. Thank you, sir. So, certainly for AI, as you also mentioned, data is the most important, you know, aspect. So, I always say that, uh, if, if there is one, in, in the, if we are serious about AI, there should be a new directorate, the Directorate of Data, or the Chief Data Officer, the army should look at that. And there are ways, there are some, you know, ways to preserve the confidentiality at the same time bring the data more forward. You know, the data can be parameterized, it can be anonymized, and data sets can be built. There is no dearth of data. In our own experience, uh, where the innovator community also needs to take a step forward is to work onsite. So, in, in multiple, uh, you know, projects with the armed services, we have people working onsite. So, that takes care of some, uh, to some extent, it takes care of the, uh, data sharing issue because the data stays with the, uh, user. But, again, the, so, even with the data, what, what happens is that, uh, once you start building the data sets, it's also about the heterogeneity of the data, the uniformity of the data, and, and then also the diversity of, of the data. So, data very soon becomes a manpower issue again, because the, the perception is that if you're taking new technologies like AI, ideally, you are taking them with the pitch that they're going to reduce manpower. But, but what is often overlooked is that for the military, AI is not off the shelf. It has to be built for the first time. So, there is investment required in initial manpower stages, when once you get your till the date you get your first models running out. So, it's not going to cut down your or substitute your manpowers immediately, not, not on day one, but maybe after the first two phases of your project or so. So, so, so that manpower needs to be earmarked. Uh, your question about, uh, security of data. Again, the, the first aspect is the anonymization or parameterization of, of, of the data sets, that, that adds to some security. And, and also there are various, there can be some look into what are some open-source data sets which are close enough, or, or synthetic data sets which, which reduce the, you know, exposure of, of, of the data sets.

>> Thank you. Uh, anybody from the audience? Uh, I think, uh, anybody wants to make a quick comment on this, uh, whatever Professor has said, or shall we move on to the next part? Anybody?

>> Yeah. Okay. Uh, please, please, uh, Ambassador.

>> Thank you very much. Very enlightening discussion. I just, uh, basically one or two quick points. One is that now you find the LLMs are being developed for which you require massive data centers. And now you have classified LLMs. The Chinese are developing for the military and for the security forces. So, I'm wondering what kind of an infrastructure required to reach that level of capability for us to match. Because classified LLM means that, for example, the Chinese commander would have a full profile and the, and the response behavior, let's say, of, of the commander on the other side. So, that's the kind of thing we're talking about. Second point is that, you know, I mean, we have the legacy hardware in which we still depend on other countries. But integrating this, the front end, the high-end technology into that AI and whatever, whether we are thinking in terms as to how we can qualitatively change our capabilities in terms of military capability, which requires both integration or new technology thinking about that, and the integrating for tactical strategy from every point of view. Thank you.

>> Thank you. Thank you for those, uh, insightful thoughts. Uh, of course, it's a challenge how do we integrate the legacy system with the forward-looking systems that we have. It's not easy to just give away whatever you had say, developed over the past 30, 40 years and then move on to the next technology. Uh, that's not possible. That's a challenge that we are sort of grappling with. And I would request Professor to take on the first part of it about the LLM.

>> Yeah. So, specifically for LLMs, you know, there are estimates which would tell you that if you want to train an LLM from scratch, just to train a single iteration of the likes of LLMs that we hear in the news or, you know, the GPTs that we use, it's the costs including infra, electricity, and all goes to a single iteration training is $25 million US. So, so that is the, you know, the size of infra that one is looking at. But then again, what I mentioned on indigenizing, even the use cases that, so, you know, there the deepseeks of the world as well, which use much less resources. And then there are things like fine-tuning, or there are things like, which you go for, your use case may not require such a big LLM to be built. So, we have to look at it from, uh, an, an Indian requirements kind of issue. But to, to your first point, it's, it's humongous resources as it is, which are required.

>> Yeah, please do.

>> I think we also need to look at building capability in the indigenous algorithm. Today, we are using everything from the open stack, right? If there are any inherent biases, malwares, or it can be introduced. So, that is something that we need to take care of. It is the right time to start investing in building our own indigenous capability in terms of the open AI stacks also. Because right now, the dependency is not so high in these kind in the AI domain, but very soon when we, every system will have AI-enabled solutions, and if we are not sure about the AI algos that we are making use of, then that is something. Building resilience, even if we are using the open stack solutions, that is one more area that we should need to look at and build some capability in.

>> Uh, thank you. Uh, we move on to, uh, another very important aspect. And I have a question for, uh, uh, Mr. Rajani. Technology transfer through international joint ventures is an important pillar to the Make in India mission. How can India move from mere assembly to localized full spectrum manufacturing and IP creation in such partnerships? Uh, can you give some examples, concrete examples, along with, say, timelines that we'll be able to achieve such?

>> So, thank you, sir. See, the journey of Atmanirbhar Bharat, there's no rocket science. Yeah. So, why do I say this? Because the three P's, what we see in any industry, which is purpose, people, and perseverance. Um, couple of years back, I was having a similar conversation with our partners in Israel. That Israel is always seen as a hub of innovation. So, what's so different about Israel which other countries are not able to follow? So, the simple answer, one-word answer was survival. So, it's not a function of that we just embarked on this journey because we were loving to do innovation. What we identified was we are surrounded by volatile neighbors, and this is the only way we can have a 100% indigenous supply chain which can actually uh ensure that the Jews are protected. You fast forward 2025, Operation Sindhur, I think, has given the same purpose to the Indian industry, which is no longer about 60%, 50% indigenization, but it's about survival and sustainability. So, the first P is taken care of in terms of the purpose of why we need to be 100% indigenous. And sir, it's not driven by profit, it's driven by survival and sustainability of the country.

The second part is people. So, what is innovation? It's like-minded people coming together. When we're talking about Make in India end to end, uh, who have the passion to go back into the value chain and say that it's not only mechanical, but electronics, avionics, uh, the AI backbone which is going to work on this. And for this, we need to ensure the sector is attractive enough. If you go back to 2000 to 2015, with due respect, the kind of people who were working from the industry versus what we see now is significantly different. And how we continue to build that confidence to retain some of this new age talent, not to go and start working for the American and the British firms, but to retain in India to develop the future of India, is a joint responsibility we have to sign up to. Because without these people, without the purpose, we'll never be able to move the needle, uh, which is the second part.

The third part, which is perseverance, is very important. So, there's a history of 100 years behind us, uh, where we have spent multi-billion dollars into our Indian ecosystem, predominantly feeding the foreign OEMs. Yeah. And it's only starting 2021 with Honorable Prime Minister putting a complete ban on, uh, imports that we have started to look into the indigenous ecosystem. But we can't give up. So, what's happening is, in the last 6 to 8 months, 12 months, there's a narrative coming out is the industry prepared enough to deliver? The counter, uh, narrative is, have you given ample time, support, and communication to let the industry evolve? So, perseverance is a very important element because with due respect, uh, 75 years we were dependent on public sector, 75 years we were dependent on foreign OEMs, and you have to give this time without giving up that the whole ecosystem comes together and things happen.

The second part gives specific examples. Adopting foreign technology should not be a taboo because time is critical. And if we get into a mindset, everything has to be indigenous from ground zero, we can sit here for the next 30 years with very few things which are going to come out. So, a, I'll say a mixed approach that at least a stage zero design, either which can be bought out, the IP can be bought out, could be learned, could be reverse engineered, combined with how do we work with the likes of DRDO and start moving into a lot more greenfield R&D, is a mixed approach India has to look into. We are trying to move from global buy and jump into IDM, forgetting the steps in between which are important to set up a very strong foundation of manufacturing. Because when we're talking about capacity building and capability building, these are two different things. Even for areas around ammunition, where is the capacity? We have been so overly dependent on MIL, with due respect, and they've done a wonderful job, but there's no technological requirement. And to what Honorable Chief mentioned, we have moved from a 14 days thought process to a four years thought process. So, at this point, even for the areas which are absolutely commodity, we have to build that capacity in the country. So, there's a part around capacity building, and there's a part around capability building. And capability building has to go hand in hand with the capacity building. And again, let me take about the specific example. We embarked on this journey of, uh, unmanned aerial vehicles, working with some of our Israeli partners, and this journey started much earlier, 2018, when drones and UAVs were not that much in fashion. Fast forward six years, we have done more exports than actually providing it to our Indian customer. Yeah. So, what's important is, are we able to appreciate what's in the Indian ecosystem? But over a period of time, we have moved from mechanical to ground control station to ground data terminal, uh, to advanced avionics, and now with what we are seeing in the future, as the requirements are growing, we also want to get into advanced payloads, land comment, uh, the SAR payload, all happening within the country. But it's a joint collaboration between the person who is putting the demand and the person who has to supply.

Second example, sir, sorry, I'm just going to close this. Uh, we need to examine the end-to-end value chain. To your point, it should not be a screwdriver technology. Because even when we went deeper into missiles and ammunition, the two areas which we found were completely, completely missing. One was the gunpowder propellant, um, and the second is the so-called seeker technology, limited to one or two labs or one or two places where the delivery time is running into 24 months, for example. So, it's not only about the end product, but identifying control on critical technologies. You know, it could be rocket motor, it could be seeker, it could be propellant, where India has to put as much emphasis as the end product. I'm absolutely committed to these things, but the whole ecosystem has to come together and sign up to this. You.

>> Yeah, uh, thank you for those insights. Of course, uh, we need to work, uh, all, all three of the, you know, important stakeholders who are sitting here, need to work as a team in order to overcome these challenges that you mentioned. And by no means are we looking at everything being produced in, uh, sort of India. It is about having the critical technology so that you don't bank upon, uh, another, uh, stakeholder in times of crisis, is what, what we need to be looking at.

Uh, anybody, a quick comment on this before we move on to, sir, please, the mic, please here, quickly.

[Music]

A second row, uh, sir, maybe have Jal Dua first. I'll come to you after that, sir.

>> Uh, thank you, Rahul. You know, uh, I'll dive deep, a little bluntly, into the question you asked of Ashish. You know, how can we get, uh, technology? I would also like to combine it with what Chandria actually mentioned, uh, when I was CISC, we actually, uh, drafted and promulgated the strategic partnership model, which unfortunately failed to take off. But otherwise, you also, Ashish, mentioned something that, you know, we don't have to keep, uh, sort of reinventing the wheel for every technology. So, I think the time has come. No, no industry in the world actually does everything by themselves. So, I think that strategic partnership model was a good way of how we could have got a private, uh, a partner with an OEM, to partner in an industry in India and get technology. And similarly, what Chandria mentioned, uh, about, you know, having one of, uh, private industry, uh, partner for different verticals, that's a, that's a very good idea, and I think we need to dwell more on this. You know, if we continue to just remain with our DAPs and DP, we, we need to make, uh, SPV, special purpose vehicles for some niche technologies, is my suggestion. And can I make a quick comment on what you, sorry, what you mentioned earlier about HR issues? When you, you took the example of AAD Directorate, when some officers are posted back. I think we in the army need to learn from the Navy. Navy, that is why is firmly in the driving seat as far as shipbuilding is concerned, and they're doing pretty well because they assign officers to a project. You go out to do a staff college, but you come back there again. You get a get promotion, get somewhere, go back somewhere. But suppose you are on Project Seabird, you continue to remain on Project Seabird till you, till either you see through the project or you come off a certain rank. So, I think there, a little more permanence, uh, is required, otherwise, we will always continue to sort of relearn the thing in our tenure-based, in our tenure-based appointments. Thank you.

>> Uh, thank you for that, sir. Uh, as far as the special purpose vehicles that you mentioned about, sir, we've just moved a proposal, and hopefully for US and counter US, we should be looking at such a model going ahead, so that we are able to get in technology early. Um, yes, sir, you had a point to make. Uh, mic, please.

>> Right, right, sir, right, sir, right, sir. Uh, DG CLAWS first, please.

>> Yeah, sorry. Whom did I, uh, smash the opportunity? Okay. Uh, Akash, you can wait. So, as far as I've got two observations, one comment, and one observation. I've been going to various seminars on Atmanirbhar Bharat, that has become the flavor of, uh, not Delhi, but all across the country. I keep hearing from the industrialists, that, including Adani and who, what all, Baba Kalyani, that they are exporting more than giving to the country itself. I want to know from Rahul, what exactly is the reason for this? That's, that's the question. The comment is that, uh, we are also expressing something called, you know, lack of investment in R&D by the private players. I understand that ROI is the, uh, is the bottom line as far as the defense, uh, industry is concerned. But sometimes, and there have been few, uh, comments in the media also about, you know, standing up for nationalism, patriotism, etc. So, besides 16 billion being put in by the government of India in artificial intelligence, which we recognize as the future of warfare also, besides civil technologies, why isn't the private, especially the big players, why aren't they pumping in a significant amount of money in the artificial intelligence R&D and also the other emerging technologies? Not only artificial intelligence, are just an example. Yeah.

>> Ashish, go first.

>> So, sir, um, I'm not going to talk on behalf of other industries. Let me talk from Adani's perspective. Uh.

>> We'll just have comments here and thereafter we'll get back to you.

>> All right. So, okay. Excellent.

>> So, when we started our infrastructure journey early '90s, yeah, Mr. Adani, uh, was more driven by how the country is going to look like in 2030, rather than worrying about how 1995 looks like. Uh, the very reason we started in Mundra with the Mundra port was with the import and export increasing, we knew the capacity and the capability requirement in 2025 will be much different. And many people, uh, deterred that this is a wrong move, 95% dominated by public sector in '97. But the foresight said, we have to make a long-term investment. And until 2015, we never made a single penny of return on our ports, uh, until 2015. And fast forward today, we are holding 30% market share just on the back of efficiency, effectiveness, and digitization. The same story got repeated in the power sector when the privatization happened in 2003. That NTPC, Power Grid are doing a wonderful job. But is that enough to take care of the demand and the aspirations of the Indian population? Um, the whole law in Indonesia when the coal was coming changed in 2011. Until 2018, we were sitting on billions of dollars of losses, but the important thing was to continue to provide the power to the Indian customer. Very recently, what happened in Bangladesh, we have a power plant in Chhattisgarh which is providing power to Bangladesh through a transmission line connected to Bangladesh grid. With the change in power which is happening, we are sitting on a billion dollars of receivables, uh, which are not being paid by the Bangladesh government. Did Adani move and say, we're not going to provide power? Answer is no. So, when it comes to nation building and taking long-term bets on any of these sectors, whether it's energy, transportation, defense, we are very clear. So, you have given us an opportunity recently after this whole Make in India, uh, started in 2016-17. I can promise to you, give us 10 years, yeah, you'll not go to Lockheed Martin and Boeing in the future. So, completely committed. And the investment to what ma'am said, private sector is not driven by profits, it's a wrong statement. And we have this notion, we are 1.4, 4 billion people, Indians who are working towards a common vision, common mission. The very reason I came back from London and I forced Gautam, I want to work in defense, is not because we didn't have businesses. We had 18 businesses. Yeah. But some of us have to jump in also, show you that we are equally committed to this country. So, you are in uniform, we are without the uniform, but the mission is.

The same about national sovereignty and we are completely committed to it, sir.

Very heartening. Thank you very much for that. Uh, and uh, with respect to the first point that that was made, uh, regarding so it's very, very heartening to know firstly that, uh, uh, our defense exports are increasing. Uh, Indian Army and Indian armed forces are actually facilitating whatever it takes to, uh, ensure that our defense exports go up, right? Uh, in terms of providing the wherewithal, the ammunition, the ranges, the expert advice, etc. However, with respect to its induction into our own army, there may be a particular technology, uh, we we are not looking at immediately or or or or we've actually crossed the threshold of that. If that happens to be the case, we look at the next, uh, step and not the the the lower technology that I was to say, uh, to address the issue of, uh, discontentment that we are look here we are exporting and, uh, you're not sort of facilitating its induction into the armed forces. We are looking at a model of spiral development, sir, wherein, uh, it would be possible to take, uh, say technology one and thereafter move on to technology two. This is what we are looking at in the in the immediate time frame. So we have time for, uh, couple of questions if somebody has a point to make. Yes. Uh, uh, General Shrea, anything that you would like to, and of course, uh, uh, General Deepak Mera.

Uh, thank you, sir. Uh, my first comment, uh, respect to what DJ Claus said. I think if we have something akin to a social, a corporate social responsibility, we also have a corporate security responsibility. So if that is institutionalized, then I think what, uh, I I really admire what Mr. Ashi said and I, the way you briefed us during NDC, the same patriotic fervor. I find it my question possibly, I think, and it would be directed to the entire panel, is, uh, about MSME and startups. Now, when we are talking that as a nation we have to work towards Atmanirbhar, then I think that is a very vibrant and potent, uh, area or component of that ecosystem. But at the same time, they do not have either the pockets or the time of 10 years which you've referred to. Many dreams die young. Many of them have got potential. Many of them have got the same patriotic fervor. How can we, that is the services, the academia, and the private sector, help them to grow and nurture them towards their aim?

Uh, Professor Suri, I think you are closely working with them. Can you throw some light on it, please?

Yeah. So, adding to your point, you know, the difference between deep tech, dead tech, a live startup, dead startup, it's nothing but timing, right? So wherever the timing can be cut short in terms of processes, in terms of interaction between the user community as well as the startup MSME community, that, uh, the processes can be eased out, that that would that would go even longer than funding. And the, the other aspect is sometimes we dwell too much in the fine grain, the difference between an MSME, difference between a startup, the procedures that a startup versus an MSME. So too much fine grain again increases the, uh, procedural, uh, backlogs. So my two cents on this is to, as as the chief also mentioned that, as in the operational theater, there is not enough time to take decisions, the same should be the approach for technology absorption. You know, the new emerging, the decisiveness to whether to go ahead with it. You know, some of the leading, uh, deep tech labs, world over, they proudly call themselves themselves fail fast labs. So if if you need to get extract out of your innovators, academia, startups, you need to fail them fast. You cannot have them, you know, trials keep going on, NC's keep going on. So speed is of essence here, both for the relevance of the technology as well as how soon the tech innovator goes back to the drawing board and reiterates. Right. So whatever helps us speed it up will be good.

Yeah. Um, absolutely very, very pertinent, uh, that you need to fail fast so as to succeed later. Very important point made by you. Uh, the second issue with respect to the processes, and I think, uh, that found a mention, all the panelists mentioned about it. So, uh, hitherto it was, if you want to buy a helmet or you want to buy a tank, the process was same. You need to go through the same files, same desks. It was it would take near same amount of time. And, uh, to, you know, a surprise after three or four years, that case may just go down. So in the revision, in the new revised, uh, defense acquisition process, we are trying to get in at least a couple of, uh, sort of recommendations or couple of processes wherein for, uh, technologies that were being discussed, we are able to induct them early in a quick time frame so that they can be exploited. So there are two provisions that are going to be there. Once, of course, ones that are matured, you need to get them and sort of, uh, give it to all the stakeholders. And second are the technologies that we are not too sure whether they would be beneficial for the services or not. So get them in small quantity, exploit, see if your TTPs work out around them, and thereafter go in for a spiral development. So, uh, the armed forces, the MOD is looking at such a provision.

Uh, with this, I think we've come, uh, to the end of today's session. Uh, thank you very much for the patient listening. I still see more than 50% present here. So I think, uh, thank you very much for that. [Applause]

Thank you so much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, I think we can do with a bigger round of applause for such a stellar panel. To our chair, Lieutenant General Rahul Singh, thank you for your views and insights on India's journey of Atmanirbhar Bharat, which contributes directly to our strategic autonomy and sovereignty. On the panel, Dr. Dr. Chandrika Koshik spoke about how the triricar of military, academia, and industry has been catalyzed by the DRDO and also about how MSMEs and startups have been integrated for manufacturing. Mr. Ashish Rajani then very aptly underscored the challenges posed by the invisible fronts, cognitive warfare, and demographic technological divide. Finally, Professor Mansuri highlighted the four phases of Atmanirbhar: sensitization, co-development, induction, and scaling up for sustainability. He also focused on the tactics and employment of technology by the field army viz development. Thank you once again for a beautiful discussion. I would now request Lieutenant General Pushpender Pal Singh, Ati Vishisht Seva Medal, Shaurya Chakra, Vice Chief of Army Staff, to kindly present a token of appreciation to our moderators and speakers from this session. First, we have with us the chair of the session, Lieutenant General Rahul Rat Singh. [Applause] Next, Dr. Chandria Koshik. [Applause] Mr. Ashish Rajani and Professor Manansan Suri. [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] I would request the panelists for a group photograph, please.

Today's deliberations have brought out multiple takeaways on the role of the Indian Army in defense diplomacy. The Chief of Army Staff aptly brought out in the fireside chat earlier today, quoting similarity between Sangeet and Sa, the way the language of Sangeet could be understood world over, armies across the world can understand each other without any language barrier. Another point would be the importance of becoming Atmanirbhar in defense production to achieve strategic autonomy, which would pave our way for becoming Viksit Bharat by 2047. As we conclude today's proceedings, we are excited and upbeat about the main event of the Chanakya Defense Dialogue 2025 on the 27th and 28th of November, which will be graced by the Honorable President of India and the Honorable Raksha Mantri. The dialogue will see a galore of speakers, masters in their respective fields, representing nine countries across three continents. Ladies and gentlemen, we look forward to welcoming all of you once again along with your colleagues on both those days. On behalf of the Strategic Planning Directorate of the Indian Army and the Center for Land Warfare Studies, I extend our sincere gratitude to all dignitaries, speakers, and participants for their presence and contributions. You are now requested to proceed for lunch, which is being served at Ashoka Pavilion and the lower portico. Thank you. Jai Hind.