Interview with Andre and Keumsae

Right. We. Hey, we see. I think I think, uh, okay, do this. Let me figure it out. That one. Give it to me. You have to come in right now. Oh, give it a minute. What? Happy birthday. Oh, thank you. Is that your birthday? Yes, it is. Today's my birthday. So, it, um, okay, here we go. Oh, hello, guys. Okay. Okay, we see you. Hey, Andre. I see you, too. Do you? Let me figure out your phone. Yeah. Today, animated J birthday. Yeah. Animated J. Happy birthday. Thank you. Thank you, Andre. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. There you go. See what? Oh, nice. One second. Sorry, guys. Yeah, no worries. I'm going to use the, I'll be right back. I'm use the restroom. I'll be like in two minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, people. Yeah, we're getting people joining in. All right. I'll be right. Yeah. Why do you make it nice? Right here. Okay. And then I'm going out. Okay. Okay. We're going to try to go like that, right? Huh? You're trying to go like this. Everybody there. Can you see me? You going, you going rest right now? Oh, hey. How you doing, bro? Hello. Good to see you guys. Good to see you. Hey, look at that. Good to see you. Oh, we re we not we not we're not in the same place right now. I can hear you on my, uh, I can hear you on my camera. You can, uh, earring a earring. Yes. All right. All right. Let's see. I see. Yep. We got Kum, Andre, Colin chilling there. All right. All right. And you can hear me, right? You hear me? Yeah. Okay. Cool. So good. So good. Awesome. Happy birthday to you. That's that's going to be the intro to the video, the happy.

Um, yeah, man. So first, I want to thank Kumi, Andre for taking time from their day to hop on to this interview and share their stories, share their knowledge, experience. Um, so first of all, shout out to you guys for doing that. And then a little bit of context of these interviews. Um, so I know animation has been a big topic, I feel, recently with, you know, different animation events and Paris having, you know, animation week and, you know, events in China, they're doing animation events. Russia's doing animation events. So, I feel like it's been popular. People been talking more about it. Um, so, uh, Colin and, uh, other other groups of animators, you know, current generation, I would say, have been really asking questions. And I'm going to let somebody in. Um, have been really asking the questions. You know, people been talking about what is animation? People doing interviews, you know, Yaya with Unimate. Um, so again, a hot topic. So, we've been calling myself and some other, uh, dancers, uh, robotters, specifically. We were like, why don't we interview different animators? Why don't we interview different people, hear their story and hear what, what, what, what was it like when they were around, when they were in it, when they first started? What were, what did it look like the robot? What did the animation look like? Where did they see it? How did they get started? So, pretty much we've been, previously to this interview, I've, uh, interviewed some of the Oakland dancers, some of the Oakland Bugaloo dancers. I've interviewed Midnight. So, I just was talking with Midnight, and then we're also going to interview Dragonhouse after. We want to do just to ask, ask them what was their story. So, I guess the first question I want to ask, uh, Kumay, and then I'm going to ask Andre the same question is, how did you get into, two, two parts, how did you get into robot, and then how did you get into animation? That would be my question. So, Kum, if you want to share first, and then I'll pass it to Andre. You know, my, my, my story is when I'm getting interesting and low than animation, you, you. Yes. How did you, how did you get into robot and how did you get into animation? I think the first thing I saw it, kind of like similar to robot and animation move, and I saw from Michael Jackson, I guess. And then after that, I just really loved it because it looked like unhuman. What year was that? I don't remember that. I think in night, he coming to, I think Black or White song music video, I guess. Mhm. I don't, I don't remember. It's too long time ago. So I don't know exactly. So I think that's my first influence for see some people doing robot and animation type, just a little bit, but look very unhuman, you know. And then after that, and then I think I'm studying to learning that culture, you know. Yeah. I think that's the happening to me. Okay. The Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson. Okay. The robot. Okay. Yeah. And were you in, were you in LA or where were you at this time? That time I'm in, uh, Korea. In Korea. Yeah. I watching his music video in on on the TV. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And and then when did you hear about animation? Uh, uh, first time, uh, I start dance, I think in my age 17, and I'm doing industry work for two years in Korea. Okay. And that time I getting a little bit of knowledge and I know, oh, here I have some industry and have some underground, and then I'm start like searching what type of dancing I like it, and then they, oh, this is the animation. Oh, that's the robot or something that, that time everybody is saying animation, you know, right? So they say, oh, that's the animation style. And, oh, okay. And then I start, uh, searching and then I find out that time, only Korea have one animation crew, only one. Because that time, sing is very small. Okay. So we don't have that much who, right now. Who was the animation crew in Korea that time? Is and Wave Go. Okay. Yes, I've seen them. Okay. You know, Wave channel. I've seen Moon. I saw some YouTube. Okay. Okay. Oh, my goodness. Because not a lot of people know about it because he's really OG. And OG in Korea. Oh, I cannot say OG, but in Korea. In Korea's time. In Korea. Yeah. That's only one animation crew that time. So I just go up to with Chino and then I don't know, like I just like I just wanted to move in like this. I cannot even say name because I don't know. I don't have no knowledge. And he's, oh, that's the robot. And that's the animation, you know. And then that's the how I'm first time experience for robot and animation. Interesting. Do you know, you said Wave Go, Mong, did they, do you know if they learned from, like, were they ever in LA? Were they ever, you know, actually? Now, I feel like I think in Wave starts that time in Korea, they think he's very unique. What he doing is something different than other people. So like he calling down his sport team. Okay. So, but now I feel like he got influence because he travel a lot, even that time, you know. I think he see something in here. I think, I think he start bopping. Interesting. I feel like, yeah. So I think he trying to, but he don't know how to do this. That I'm not sure. You know what I mean? But I can kind of tell because how he moving things is like, it's something like that, you know. Oh, I think he trying to doing bobbing, you know, but he don't know what it is. So like, I think he call himself Bing. Interesting. I don't know. I have to. Okay. Okay. So, robot, Michael Jackson, uh, was the animation. Okay. Now, so, uh, Andre, how did you hear or how did you hear of the robot dance and, and then also as well, animations? So, my, my account of robot is already being put out a long, long, long time ago. Okay. Uh, I in '68, when I was 5 years old, I got sat in front of a television station in Oklahoma. And on that station, all the movies, uh, that were put out way before that time. That's when I first seen them. So they were recycle already. So there was Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, right? You know, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Uh, even the Sinbad movies, and all of this stuff were what influenced me was some people on TV. That's correct. The robot part, which was the ticking part of what I end up incorporating, was me trying to be the dog, which called a man, mechanical dog. I'm not the only one who ever seen it. I, I seen it was a white girl in the movie. That's when I first seen somebody imagining. And not the first time it was ever done, but that's the first time I saw somebody doing a dog, like a, like a ticking dog with a mirror around it. And Dick Van Dyke, who was also in the movie, he did a clown like coming out of the Jack in the Box. And I imitated that. And I put both of those together with most of the stuff that I did. Uh, there was a somebody called HR Puff and stuff, put a thing there was a mechanical boy. I am a mechanical boy. He was like from London because the Beatles was very famous. They was getting the monthly stuff to make TV programs over here. And I copied his mechanical board. You can always find these references at that time. That was 1968 for me. And that's when I started seeing influence it. By 1967, '68. By '68, I was good at it. Like I could do them probably just as good as I saw them doing them. And I was renowned for that. Now, the funny part about that is that I came to LA, uh, only in '74, when I was 11 years old. So, I was doing this stuff all the way back there in Oklahoma and dancing and forever doing whatever and was fairly good at it. When I came here in '74, um, I had got introduced to some people who were do dancing. And everybody to me was dancing, doing the moves like lockers, but they didn't call it locking at that time. And that was, they blew up around that time. And it was been told to me that they started locking. Everybody was trying to robot. But robot, I don't, people don't mention these names, but there were like three already great robots in LA when I was 11 years old when I came here. Slim the Robot from the Lockers got very famous. Now, he was one of the LA OGs, I believe. And then there was a guy called, and I'm only putting this for history reference. Right. So they were, uh, uh, there was also John Boy and the Robot Brothers was doing a Panama version of a robot to the music. Uh, and I don't know where he originates from, whether it be North Oakland, Fresno, whatever. I do not know. I, I have contact with him eventually, and I'll find that out. And there was a guy called Dexter, who Dexter Roots, a tween [ __ ] like looking guy who was really good. Those were the three OGs of LA as far as I was concerned. Not that they were the only robots, they were renowned in the streets already. And as a kid, I got pretty noticed because I was doing some things that robots wasn't doing. This was mainly ticking. Those robots that was doing this was doing robots and vibrating. That was the power of robot. And at that time, locking had just gotten known. So all robots was known as street OGs, including me. I'm a, I'm a kid, but I was in the robot phase. That was the first phase of street dancing, like, uh, ghetto dancing in the streets of LA was robot. And, yeah, people like, like James Brown made it famous. And in '74, '75, Dancing Machine came out, and Michael Jackson had his robot that got famous. That pushed it on to other people as well. So, just to let you know that there's a time frame when people came into the game and when they saw something compared to when it was first out. Okay. That's what I want to say. Okay. So then, so then, so I'm hearing correctly, you were roboting already in Oklahoma at a very. Okay. So were, and then you came to LA. I was pretty good already. The year after I started chiropractic. Like, I'm talking about, I could tell you, I was already good enough to handle whoever was roboting that time. Okay. And then you came to LA and then there were other roboters already there. There were other roboters that were already here. And I do not know when they started. Like, did they see the same thing I saw in '68 or did they see it way before? Because the most people were older than me already. And I can't tell you when it circulated here in LA to being in Oklahoma. I can only tell you one thing. The year I saw it was the year my grandmother got on television. And we trained from radio to TV. That was '68. I was five years old. Okay. Okay. So the Okay. And then what about by six years old, I got good. I can say I'm, I'm good, but everybody say a kid is good. But robots, the only thing I could do. I never really could dance like everybody else. So I can imitate people dancing right now. I don't really know how to do the dance, see them and try to copy it. And I don't really know how to do the other dancers. Okay. Imitation got you. Okay. And then when did, what about animation? When did that term come about used in dance? So, nobody was calling animation animation back then. So, no, nobody in that, in that day was called an animation animation. Uh, the main, uh, things that were out as far as dance stages, because you got to remember that, uh, animation, even though people now took the base of robot in it, and you can sell a robot is animated, and you can do that. But every time you act like you got still or stop, they didn't call it dime stopping a lot. They know you was robot. So anybody who just, your grandma could just, and that was already the robot. They didn't, they nobody say, "Oh, you animating." They didn't, that was never the coin trade to use. Uh, after locking, which it was robot first, then locking. Always use an OG reference to the street. They always put a robot in their group. And robot ended their group off. So they would never argue with whoever was going street. So locking is a new school thing. All lockers, even if they're older than me in my ear, were not really OG street. They were the new people, but the new people making up something new. But it came after robot. So the no lock because I never talked no locker as if they was my elder or OG. Even if they was older, it was only the few that I bow down right now, literally, to robot, Slim the Robot, and he, he was in the locker, but he was a robber. And I bow down to Dexter, who I thought was the best robot ever. And I bow down to, um, John Boy. Now, I'm not saying that I wouldn't bow down to another robot if he was from Oakland, if I found out his thoroughbred, you know, that his history. I don't know. I only know these three people from LA. And I had to challenge these three people in my lifetime. Interesting. When I, so I didn't just say I'm saying a name. I had to go and see them and battle them and take a respect or don't take a respect to give them that credit before I go to make my own name and reputation as a kid. Okay? So, I'm giving you logistically who I bow down. They my OG, blah, blah, blah. And I don't try to say much about them. I didn't get to study them. I just met them in confrontation. Okay. I give them that sort of thing. And so nobody was caught in animation animation in that day. Uh, popping came along. And a lot of people who were first poppers, regardless of who they say they claim to get it from. Uh, Oakland has a very good, uh, history of being some of the first roboters. But then again, other than being aged, you got to find the ones who say they was doing it before a certain time stamp. Because once Michael Jackson got on the stage with Dancing Machine, almost everybody was doing a version of robot, including the stepping. Because there were people that could say they was brutes. But behind Dancing Machine, uh, just like in Willy Wonka, the Oompa Loompas, there was a group, and that was Michael Jackson's brother. And they did a real marching, stepping routine like a robot base. So, to me, that influenced a lot. Uh, I'm not saying they made people want to dance, but if you trying to do the, that was a hit song for two years, Dancing Machine on the Top Records, and it got played everywhere. And they had a visual video with it. So, I believe that everybody got influenced. Not that that was the only thing they did for robot, but they got influenced to do the dance era in Oakland. I don't, I don't believe they didn't solo robot. I believe they got picked up and acknowledged for making a team. And their teams to this day has the strongest influence on what other teams do. Even though you see, uh, like dance champions and the Jabawaki type, there, even people don't sometimes know the Jabawaki is still Bay influenced. They got people, Zulu Gremlin, Clickquly, myself, and other people gave that, that recipe to those guys. So, uh, and everybody is doing a certain version of it when they make a team effort, like a drill team effort. And I'm not saying they created it, but they actually got emphasis for it doing it as a robot style, their robot style. They didn't call it, they got two terms. Some people say stepping, so you make a step. And then other people, but the stepping was used because people went to colleges. So all the groups that dance or stomp, they call it steppers. So that's a confusion on whether robot stepping and stepping is the same. But they use the term stepping at one point. And then they call it strutting. And you know, a strut, a robot would have like, you going to step into motion. And they did that. So we can call it chain reaction, we can call it domino, we can say any term we want to. But they had a reference of making the first group type of robot movement. And in robot movement era before lock. Okay. Which is why they claim somebody took it, uh, like the Baloo took it down because he was dancing more with it. When the Bugaloo style came to LA, I do not know when they, when Bugaloo sound came to LA, but he formed a group that emphasized from Long Beach all the way back up to LA and influenced all the people who look like my, this is my words, puppet, electronic puppet, uh, uh, scarecrow, and the Chinese robot were some of the basic moves that all these people could do. But most people who were contortionists, just like today, very flimsy, flexible, bone breakers, all that, all wanted to get into what they call a street form of popping, of whatever it was, a puppet or boogaloo, whatever you want to call it. So they didn't never call those people animated. When a person did this, they never call a bone breaker animated. They didn't, when they tried a robot, they didn't say, "Oh, you animated." There was a word, uh, as popping started to get on and known, just before 1983. So we're going to tell you the date of that. H 78, '79. '78, '79. Some people who could vibrate, which wasn't called animation either, when you vibrated, but if you could move and and animate, and I was one of the first people who were moving beyond the tick and sped the tick up and started moving. They had a word they was calling it 3D, they was calling it stroll, and it say 3D strobe. Nobody was saying when you 3D strobe, that that's animation. Nobody was saying when you try to robot, you was animation. Nobody said when you was popping, you was animating. That was just a new coin that new people in the generation added to it, or they heard it from it, and they just kept the umbrella. Everybody was called popping, whether they was waving or snaking or whatever. Everybody who could do these dances were called popping. That was a, that was the umbrella. And if you could lock and pop, you would be called a pop locker. So all poppers wasn't pop lockers. But people who could lock and pop were called pop lock. You could pop or you can lock. Whatever they doing, they popping or locking. You don't know which one it was doing. That was really simple. Real, real, real simple there. But nobody was saying, "Oh, you animating when you vibrate." Nobody was saying animate. So even when you try to act like you was vibrating and moving, which is what animation would be close enough, the real action done, uh, you would have this shake and this movement, and you're trying to vibrate. Everybody vibrate, just shook, stood still. When you move, you was doing the Sinbad or doing eclipse from the Sinbad. This is real fact. The people in the Bay are old enough, just like me, or older than me sometimes, to have seen the same movies. Sinbad, Seven, B, Jason and the Argonauts, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And so on. But that does not mean that they were in the middle of a street dance, bringing it as a, like bringing what you do that you can do at home into a street thing to battle somebody with that. I don't do not know if robot dance could ever move and vibrate. I don't know if John Boy can move and vibrate, but none of these people were doing them in that day. They stood still and vibrated as robots. That was the power move of a robot. Poppers moved a lot. And some of them moved, and sometimes they have a small groove and a hit on a beat, but there was no heavy hitting at that time. There was no this thing we call bumping, and that was just a mispronunciation of somebody saying my name. Bop was not a move that everybody was doing at first. I tried the robot, and I tried the robot fast, and it made a mechanical shake that everybody, oh, that's not. Can you do it? And I perfected that shake, and it had a hard hit. So I became famous as a robot first, and then as a great popper with a hard hit. Everybody likes to hit. And everybody could do versions of it. But when they learned a version of it, you could mechanically see that they was moving their legs, of which I follow popping teeth. I give him the influence of me trying to move my legs too. Uh, which started what is called a Compton style hit. And then from the Compton style jack poppers who move their leg. There's some people who do this, like Stretch from Pomona. He's a jackpot. And most of the people that was in LA, like if you look at animation, he's a Compton Popper. They, uh, they do drill teams. It's not really robotic. It's just, you got the hit and you move. It doesn't matter what you do with it. Now, nobody even started using the word animation as a base for popping. Not even when the movie Breaking came out. Because the world saw, uh, both Taco in the movie and Boogaloo Shrimp in the movie, and they became the most famous people for the street dance. But sometime they were mispronounced as breakers. When people saw the movie Breaking, they didn't differentiate and say, "What you doing is called popping?" To the world, to get the definition, you had to be in the street to know what was different between what they was doing. But in that movie, they break dance, they lock, and they pop. So when they went to the two most famous people, again, is Taco and and Boogaloo Shrimp. I'm talking about worldwide now, because the movie had great distribution. So they went to Japan, they went to Korea, they went to, you know, all these places people say they go to trip, including Russia, whatever. They went to those places and got known. And they were famous. I mean, famous, famous rockstar famous. M only two people. Only two people. Wow. And the difference between those two people is they were both put as nemesis in the same movie. Of course, Boogaloo Shrimp seemed to beat out Taco, but Taco was in the movie. And there was some other dudes that was from New York was real good in that movie. The one who was like a wave guy, rubber band man. He really looked, he got his own style and he looked really different. But Taco had a hit now, and he had this thing called Cobra, which was not just a regular wave, even though he could body trace wave, and though that made both of them get known. Now, the people who took Boogaloo, which after the fame came for these two guys, another group that first came down to LA took on the banner saying they created the pocket. They were called Electro Bugaloo. The Electric Bugaloo were first called the Electric Bugaloo Lockers. And later, when the movie Breaking came out, they, their name changed to Electric Bugaloo Poppers. And they said, "We're the ones who were popping. Boogaloo Sam is the one who created these moves that influenced these movies and started these moves." And as people went back to find out that Boogaloo Sam was a real character, only the Oakland people got mad at them claiming that. They go, "We started from here. They came to Fresno. They took what we was doing. They took it like the struggling, but he don't look like them. That don't mean he didn't get the ideal from them, but he didn't look like them." And by the time these people who were foreigners heard these words, they took those words like, "Oh, you was in the movie. Oh, they, you started." But they was just a star. Oh, okay. We going to take that. And they built an empire for popping, but they called it Boogaloo at that time. So, they were Electric Boogaloo. And people were going the Boogaloo. Boogaloo. They didn't say it was popping no more. And in fact, when poppers came against, uh, the Electric Boogaloos were claiming that they started it, they made a big differentiation. Well, you, you not Boogalooing. You not, you're not really popping. Popping means this. Don't wave, don't kick, don't robot. Popping means this. And then you had to do the old man and this move like this because this is Boooo. So they put everything in their forearm. And people was listening to the only people who was talking and getting money touring for that reason. Now, after people saw them and other people, they became famous. Other world was following it. And I don't care what popular in the world, they had nothing to look at. They wasn't never saying nothing about animation, except for a few people, uh, in each one country who still remembered what Taco had did in the movie. And Taco didn't look like he was Boogaloo. Taco didn't, what Taco's name in the movie, Boogaloo Shrimp's name was Turbo. But when you call his regular name, he had a name, Boogaloo in it. So he looked like, "Oh, I'm Boogaloo Shrimp." He didn't have, he didn't do no Boogaloo style, but he had a Boogaloo name. So everything he did, they said, "Well, he must be Boogaloo Shrimp. Look at him." And he joaloo like them. So they thought all of that belonged to Boogaloo. Okay. Confusion right there. Just because of a name, mis misnomer of misnomer. Just like my name, Bopping Dre, was called Bing Dre. And then somebody couldn't get it and they called me Bopping Dre. So that's a misnomer too. But everything that I did as robot went ahead, became my style. And the style that they started naming, uh, animation came mostly from the world from Taco, because he was doing a cobra with some vibrating moves, of which that was influenced by me. I had a battle with him, told him what I did, showed him what I did. He went in practice. By by by '85, two years after the movie came out, he was like one of the hardest hitters and dancers there was. Bar none. I could tell you that in my own brain. I don't care about who he met and dance with. I'm talking about he had the ability. He has clips out doing pieces of Cobra, pieces of pieces of. He had every little piece he wanted to have in it, and some action. Okay. And where to the wise, Boogaloo Shrimp, he looks really good too, especially when he did a version of Android as a robot from Family Matters, right? His Android in a machine, he did mechanical pieces, not pop locking until his second or third, uh, episode in there. Then he was in the basement doing backslides and other waves. And they didn't look as well, off a skit, but his Android when he first came out, even before he had Bop and Ronnie show up as a girl version of him was on. He was like super tight. I was very mad and jealous. Real truth. So, with this being said, now there's another confusion, even more so after I came back to the scene after 30 years away. When, when did you, when did you leave? You, you left the scene. I left the scene of LA in '80 and '81. I went from there. The military was my escape from the streets. And I went to Korea, and from Korea, I went to China. I learned martial arts and became a bodyguard for a businessman who moved to Canada, Vancouver. So in that same whole end of the same year, I could go into the service and running back and forth to China as a bodyguard for this businessman named Boning. I got settled with him in Vancouver, Canada. And that was '80 to '87. And now I'm in Vancouver with only a few trips back to LA. I didn't really come back here to do no dancing. I was talk about fighting like a martial artist at that time. I was trying to be a bouncer. And I was a bouncer even when I came back here. But I had also learned because that man was a club owner, how to run events, clubs, you know, nightclubs, young clubs, college clubs, you name it, ladies night out, blah. And that's why I got my current ideal of doing things. But when I come here, it just, I tell people who not used to it, they only pick up what they like and they run with what they can. They don't run with the whole thing. But that's my forte in my brain. And it was just history. I came back and when I came back, I had told people a thousand times that I had ran into the Electric Boogaloo Lockers at my school at Fremont. I got pictured in in the yearbook of the whale from there at Fremont and lock to prove my history and where I was in as a mascot that changed me from everybody. And they gave me credit different from most people. So everybody could get influenced seeing me at a baseball game when that football game would go every other week to another high school to play football. I didn't go to people's place and meet them and battle them the way other people had to go do it when they got in it. I was a school mascot. And the school had a sports game, basketball, band, and baseball to challenge other schools, including volleyball sometimes. And they usually pick me to go with the band or the drill team or do the halftime shows. And so I was going every week, one at home and every week away at another school. So you can name all the schools. Morningside, you can go all the way to in LA County to Long Beach and name Centennial, name Carson, uh, Fch, it doesn't matter. You can name all the schools here. Our schools in the year season would play against them with one team or another. And that's how I got known. They see me at a thing. I'm the dude dancing, doing the backslide, doing popping, doing robot, doing whatever I could learn to do, including locking. Even though I wasn't a great locker or nothing, I just knew basically where locking was in my mind and was doing that. And then they go get the dancer of their school after that who come and try to find me. And then I'd see that person, they do them. I go, "That's good." And I go, "Here's me." Blah, blah. They go, "How you do that?" And then I'd influence them. I did not teach everyone I met. I just showed them something that they thought they wanted to learn. So I gave them influence and tightened up some stuff that they were already doing sometimes, but didn't have, let's say, my cheating experience of illusions per se. They can already dance better than me. Almost everybody I met danced better than me. Like what you and now I call house and hip hop and everything got separated. At one time it was all the same too. So it was, you just dance. You can work at any Soul Train evidence, any Soul Train episode, and everybody who ever moved was doing a locking move. So I tell people every day, if you see anybody who's moving lockers, didn't create not one move. They made. They just incorporated. Okay. But the style that they did it made a difference. Learning to stop when you dance made a difference. I'm talking too long. You guys got to go. I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry for ranting that way. Oh, no, no. It's, it's good. It's information. Again, it's part of the history. So, it's great. I'm trying to give you history so people can put their stuff together and put their years and say what they said. And some people make the, a conscious message and they say it wrongly that other people get emphasized as if that's the way it should have been. And it's just been explained wrong. You left people in the air instead of giving them the script information. Like when you say, as an example, when Don Cornelius interviewed the Lockers, even on the movies, and go back to it, even robots, Slim said he was a locker. He says, "I'm the, I'm Slim. I'm the robot Slim Robot. And I'm a locker." And so you would get confused that robot would be called locker. But people would not even understanding that everybody who locked was doing a piece of robot to come to the stop was to robot that locking it up. Okay. So when you do the move and you stop, but you say you do this, an old man, that's part robot, right? Right. But you can dance. And the robot, robot didn't use no dancing. He just robot, like android robot, whatever. There you go. When did, when did anim, when did you become associated with animation? Because in my, to my knowledge, to my perspective, uh, when people talk about animation in LA, your name comes up. That's like, Andre, like you got to, people overseas talk about animation, Andre's name comes up. When did you notice or that animation became associated with you? Animation became associated with me in '78. That's when I decided I would try to move and vibrate. Like, not vibrate only, but move with vibration. And when I first try to tell people that, here's a, here's a real good quick story. Quick story. When I first try to show people, they go, "Oh, man, you look like a strobe." Oh, you see somebody moving like a stroll. And sometimes they come back and say, "Man, you see people strolling?" I go, "Dude, that was me." Like, I'm the one in the nightclub. I'm trying to move with vibrations. Dime stop, which is quick ticking at that time. So it just looked like the lights were blinking in your eye, and it looked like I was moving like crinkly, and it flashed. And then I try to move more tight in the day when the light was on and no flashes. I would move tighter. And that became the moving vibration. It was, to me, was my answer to the vibrate standing still, but now I can move. And when I go out, I can make that junkier and flimsier, and it look like I'm flashing. Now, let me give you some honesty. When I was a kid, I was put in front of a movie, a TV show for kids. It was called Gumby. It's called Claymation. It was the first Claymation, Gumby and Pokey. I got my influence trying to move awkwardly like them, not like a robot. Just, you know, like a puppet or step and you click and move. Uh-huh. Don't poop. So, I had Gumby as my base. But when people was asking me what he was doing and how to do it, a movie that came to mind was Sinbad. And I told you, man, it's just like this. It's like the, the horse or Medusa, the snake, right? And the word Sinbad now became the circulate in LA. Sinbading. You know, you can wave and you can vibrate when you do it, right? Blah, blah, blah. And that's like a creature or cracking. Your hands is moving and shaking when you do. And then there was the skeletons who chop your head off. This moving vibration. So I said the word Sinbad, and everybody started looking for Claymation with the movie reference. Now, I gave you a secret today that it really came from Gumby. That was before the movie on a TV show for kids, but the movie reference was how you tell people to look at that and try to imitate that. So, I told him that. And once I came, and that was like, that's, I didn't even mention this. They was calling it Sinbad in the street, but nobody knew Sinbad strobe, uh, uh, vibrating move was all the same 3D strobe. They didn't know they all came from the same base. They just said it was something different, but nobody knew what it was. Nobody could demonstrate. Okay. So, it's the same thing. It's all the same. Stop motion, 3D, Claymation. Okay. Because that's also, I, I wanna, I, I noticed that people will say like, "Oh, I'm doing Claymation." But what they're saying is the same thing, right? Of stop motion and Sinbading. Exactly. They're doing it. But there's a reason why somebody like my girl Kam is saying it. Because after the mixup in Japan, because Japan was the first one starting to air this, they took the ideal of what a guy called Sheen was doing, who followed Taco and his his Sinbading, his ideal vibrating move, uh, got mixed up with Cobra. Of course, Cobra is not a Boogaloo move. It is a move, uh, it's not a regular wave trace wave move either. It is a move that got influenced literally by me. And that's even before the people who was known for doing it. And I also gave them the name of their group called Mysterious Poppers. They was named something else. And I, they could already, they were already more flexible than I'll ever be, but I gave them a concept of turning their flexibility to look like a snake. Wow. So that's why all this Cobra, the Mole M, all these names came up, being Cobras and snakes and whatever. They could already beat me, but the concept was in my brain. And I tried to give it to them, and they took it and ran with it. Okay. All right. And then later, after '80, after the movie Breaking, I didn't never, I never had met Taco when they were dancing, when he was dancing with them, where he learned. But I met him afterwards and challenged him, and he showed me what he could do. Great. And I said, "I showed the people who showed you." Now I'm gonna show you something different. And I gave him the difference between his animation or Claymation to put with it, the strobe that goes with doing Cobra together. And he got better at it. And there you go. That's how that worked. And we were close. We were closer. I was closer to him than I was closer to all the guys in the Mysterious Poppers. I just met those guys after I beat a a guy that they liked, a guy called Anthony King, King of Pop, who was everybody's hero in Lynwood, Paramount, and, uh, Compton. And I beat him at a place. And then everybody wanted to meet me. Who beat him? Who beat him? And they came looking for me. And I showed them what I did. And they go, "Oh my god, I want to learn." And then I, I show what they show what they do. And I show them how they can improve it. I didn't improve it, but I showed them what they can do. Conceptualize, influence. Okay. Okay. And they decided to go do it. Okay. And, and, and, and to your knowledge and your experience, you didn't see people moving and vibrating? No, not at all. Okay. Not ever. In fact, it wasn't until this year, uh, no, no, it wasn't until last year I saw a clip, uh, a real clip, and had to review it to make sure that what I was seeing, because I didn't even see that at that time. But the guy named Kearney, along with a guy who could hit, only two of them in the whole place that were very impressive on this, on, uh, mechanical devices of the Gong Show. Yes. The Black. The Black Messengers. The real name Black Messenger, but on the movie, they call them Mechanical Devices. They were all white. And in that movie '77, that was one of the three versions that they won. And that was the best episode they ever did. They did not even pop like that until they came to LA. So they were LA influenced to make that step. That, that's, that's, that's proof to you right now. They was already here. You had won before they got to that one. And if you go and look at all their other ones, demon mind things, they got the routines down, but they didn't have that same mechanical style. So you're saying the Mechanical Devices, also known as the Black Messengers, were influenced from LA's style of dancing? Style dancing in. That's correct. Okay. Not that they didn't have a routine. The routines they still, they be there, hands down. But there was a group like, let's say, if you could speed up the John Boy, look at the, if you look at John Boy routine, who also moves mechanical stuff, they move slow to beat for a reason. And Mechanical Devices, just like one of the other groups that I always name when I mention Fris or Fresno or up in San Francisco, Close Encounter of the Funkiest Kind, they all learn to move to faster speeds, robot, quicker speed. M. And that, that leaves a different impression on you looking at a robot routine to a dancing or electric robot routine. And that changes how you move your timing, the look, how it's perceived. Just like the perception of vibrating moving, uh, from a tick, it's a different style. It's the same technique. But once you speak, let's say if I'm doing this, this is five miles an hour in your car accelerating, right? And when I go 60 miles an hour doing this. It looks different. Okay. It looks different when you slow down or you speed up. Okay. Even if you're doing the same thing. Okay. Yes. That's easy way to say it. Okay. And

People didn't know what it was. All the people, well, you seen stroking, you seen 3D, and everybody couldn't do it, so it gets mixed up. Okay.

Would you agree with the statement of people in Oakland were animating and didn't have knowledge of LA dancers? Like, so I happen to think that Oakland, which claims to be the first out of even separate skills dancers, Oakland claims to be the originators. And I just told you that I believe, and this is not a fact. This is not a fact because I don't know all those guys and their personal history or age or when they started or who they watched before they got influenced. What I did not hear out of many people in Oakland is where they got their sources from. They just say, "We did it." And all we don't usually do things together. Usually, with someone, when you do things with someone, and that doesn't mean it came from you. It just means she was with them as they was doing it.

As an example, uh, animated J, I saw you do a squid with your hand one day. I, I saw other people that all the time. I see different versions of it now. But I didn't know where you got it from or where your conception came from. But I seen you with my so my eye would go, "Animated J did that." And I would say that truthfully, whether there was a fact or not, until you come and tell me, "Oh, I really got that from this guy," or "I got that from this version," or "I wasn't the first, but I liked it and I started doing it, right?"

So everything in the streets gets moved by example first and perception from people watching you. That's not they taught you. It's you saw them and you liked it and you went home and tried to do it, right? And if somebody sees you, they get influenced by trying to do what you did, right? This is called osmosis. You know, when water gets over the rags and it soaks into a towel or the picker, the bounty, the picker up or the greater pick up. Everybody picks up a little or whatever they saw somebody do, right? They don't always get the right mechanics or it was hard or it was easy, but everybody does it.

Now, in Oakland, which is what I try to do, that's why I talk so much. I try to put things in perspective. I try to put things to where it came from, like where I got it from and then where I took it to. Okay? Many times when people see me, they take it and they go, "I did it. I do it my way." Dude, you was trying to do it like me. You didn't get to me. There's a difference between somebody really taking something and going far, right?

As an example, there was only a few people doing tuts. And the main people who were doing tuts was me and some people out of Carson. No, we're talking the big tuts, you know, big arm tuts, you know, it's only a few people, you know, doing baby tut moves. Then other people see those and they do versions of it too, right? To beat them. All the people who really liked us started box tutting. You know, they went from out here to "I'mma be here." And it was simple stuff. They go from here to this long one, from here to here. It was simple. Pretty soon you can do these moves and they become different inside instead of way out. Okay.

I even had some stupid fingers, but I wasn't calling myself a finger cutter, right? And later, when I saw the people who were more flexible than me, more digit-oriented, right? They could do way more than I could ever do. They call themselves digit cutters or they call finger cutters. Right. Right. And they went into, you know, tutting can come from. Okay, I'm just saying they were focused. They, I could never keep up with them. And even if I tried to cut, what could be a small sample, I can't do it the way they. They have better digit control. Okay? Right?

So when you mean a double-jointed person who can make his arm tuck and then twist it around his back and still tut, you just got to watch it and give it appreciation. Right. But his ability keeps a lot of people out of the same arena. His ability, his flexible ability, right? Right.

So likewise, when people were popping, I told you they started puff at first. That was how loose you can get. And then for loose, is how wavy you can get. So people got into losing their body and becoming very wavy. Some people could look. They don't name like Skywalker's name no more. Uh, they don't talk about Squid anymore. Right. Right. They do talk about Elsewhere sometime because he reminds him of the New York one. He, he's the same from the same squad, but they don't mention Pomona's because it makes sense. And I guess one of the hardest pushers for Pomona was G Style Slick Dog because the other people in Pomona who are still good, they're not as aggressive. So Slick Dog brought Pomona style waving to the forefront. So now a lot of people want to be G Style, want to wave like water, but be straight. You know, I say straight wave down my body, go around. But that was already out way before then, too. Taco did that as well. Okay, that's trace waving. Trace. Okay. You know, you do cobra, you see the wave by your leg, come back up. But again, styles look different, but they're the same. Okay. Got it. Person's ability takes them where they can go. Okay.

Would you say that? Well, actually, I'll just. Yeah. What, what, what was your? In no, actually, okay. Would you say that? Okay, sure. People in Oakland, let's say sure, somebody was vibrating and they were watching Sinbad and stuff, and that's great, you know, who knows? But would you say that you pushed it further than like I just said, just like I just said about cutting from old to box to finger digital? They pushed it. So you push, I pushed what was now called Sin batting or animated Sinbad or claymation. I pushed that higher than everybody did. Okay.

Now, I can still go in. I can, in front of people. Let's say Carney, they got other names. I just say Carney because his name was brought to the forefront because he came down here a couple times. I give him respect for that too. He was also on the show and did some [ __ ]. Uh, he done it. And then other people can say, "I watched the same movie and I used to do it." But when you sit in front of them and they do it, uh, they're doing it. They're doing an aspect, but it ain't clarified. It ain't focused. It ain't clean all the time. Okay.

So, you see some people say, "I'm old and I hit." You go, "Yeah, they hitting." But if you watch them, sometimes it's old shaking. And they got newer guys who got farther, more dedicated hits. Okay? I do that all the time. I need the doodies in front of me. And if he hits really well, I try not to hit harder to make him get any better. I just water my [ __ ] down, let him pick his up at 100% and I go, "That's nice." And then I go home and say, "Do I still got that?" And I go, "Oh, all right. I still got it. I, I'm just being truthful." No, no, no. I love it. I love it. Okay. I'm being truthful.

So, when you see people who hit, they hit good and you like it and you get confused whether I'm hitting or they hitting differently or hard or the same, it doesn't really matter. They're trying to hit usually like the way I started hitting, having a nice hit with it. That's influenced by me. All those hard hitters out in the world were influenced by trying to hit hard. And not that they can't hit harder than me. I've seen Papa Pete hit way harder than most people I've seen, but he can't use the hit and use a robot to make it control. Right.

So when if he measured, it's not that he can't do this, and not that people in Oakland can't get it either, dude. If somebody that just started in the year 2000 or later can hit and animate, then the dudes like Oakland can also relearn it and learn how to bop or hit or animate just as good as anybody. Okay, they get back into it, right? It ain't they did it in case ever do it. It's just that they never did it until now, right?

So even Carney started getting better later, you know, come back around, people see something, he go home, he get like, "Oh, I'm do this." He took a. I seen his sh. He took a real shape and I like, "Yeah, he kind of hit." He took a real shape with, "Oh, I know that's so jacked up." But later he got some, you know, he got some hits and looked good. You see the hat move, right? He looked good. So he improved in the later years. Okay. Okay. And everybody can do that, right? If you can learn to do it now, he can learn to do it. He had the time to go do it and if he want to do it, he can do it. I don't think no robot strutter from Oakland can't keep up with people if they go and focus and do it. Okay.

Would you say Andre that when it came to LA, that you were the one pushing the style of anima or pushing animation? I, I pushed the style of robot and dance, which was like strutting from Oakland. We're very similar. That it's really similar. I just had a different robot base to mine. They had a robot base, but they was willing to move a different way. And I was trying to keep mine in line with a robot. So, a drill team version robot became the base of what I did. And I pushed that everywhere I went. I didn't worry about curves. I did a wave. And if I did a wave, I stood still from my robot and did a wave so you could see the robot. And then I went back to my robot.

And you making little increment movements too? Well, I made increment movements because I was trying to show people who would follow my base moves and show them that I could be intricate, you know, which I call glitches. So that's why you see everybody doing these double beat hits, small one. So boom boom boom is great, but then I go or forward forward for, you know, these glitch moves that are tricks that help with the animation that you're unreal.

Would you say it's interesting because you're coming up with these moves like glitches, these different rewinds? You're. I didn't call it glitches back in that day. That's just a new term to make people understand when we're communicating today. I never used the word glitch until 2003. Okay. Uh, when I was trying to teach AJ and I told him, "It's like a mistake. It's a glitch, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah." I didn't. It wasn't. No, we wasn't called glitching back in the day. Not that you couldn't do it. It wasn't called that. It wasn't called that. Okay. It wasn't using that as a frame for the reference to think about.

Okay. There's only for waves. They didn't have a thousand waves. They didn't have thing called rag wave and liquid wave. They didn't have all these new definitions for what you did back then. It was called a title wave when you did your whole body. It was called an arm wave or disco daddy wave. If you put your elbows and arms together, right? They had it was called if you just did your hands, it was called alulu, a Hawaiian, don't that dance called alu, right? You know, you did this, right? And if you did the thing like a bird with an arm wave, you was doing modern dance. Interesting. Okay. Okay. Really, literally, we didn't have all these words to put them in the right category like we have now. Right. Right. And the problem is when you disassociate things from what they was first done, you get confused as to when it came in until somebody give you a time stamp.

So you've talked to people like, let's say Midnight. Yes. Midnight is fairly young in the game and fairly young in honing his skill. He's pretty good to me now. He's getting much better, but his skill level was never very high. But he started as a statue, you know, don't move. Right. Man, he's famous for that. He's a statue, man. Not that he can't pop or hit, but that's later in the game. Okay. And his years from doing that. Well, I'm 62. There's a lot of people older than me. It's like, but they started after me, right? Not when I started as a kid. Remember, I started as a robot. And when popping came along, I was already a robot champion. Robot, right? And then when popping came along, and let's put the years right. From '68, popping didn't come until like '78 to most people in LA. Okay. From '68 when I started. Yes. At '78 when Poppy hit the game, you were roboting. I was roboting. Robot, already a robot champion. Robot champion. Okay. From '74 to '78, I had four years of being a champion, catching up with old guys, keeping a reputation, and then being a school mascot in those those years. Uh-huh. So at 15, I got. I came at 11. At 15, I was a robot champ from the streets of LA. Got it. Okay. Robot champ, not popping champ. Right. Robot. Okay.

But when Poppy came in and I tried to speed up my robot, that trying to keep up to the groove became like a dancing robot, and I can dance with it, and I look different than all the people who were popping. Got it. Because they didn't have that background that you had, that robot, the robot background. Okay. Correct. Okay.

Question. I've heard of the name Deuce being shared in LA. People talk of Deuce and making animation. What's your relationship with? Yeah. Well, it's two other people. So, let me, let me give things out as they belong. My first play brother in the street, his name is Doney, uh, Anthony Triplet. He's still, he's big now. He was really small. He's a puppet puppet popper. He actually popped before me. Like, and when I came up with new things to do, I would share with him. We were first challenged, but then he say, "What I go do this, do that." So I took him as another guy named Larry Tick and Larry. I took his ticking style and gave him as moves to Doney. When I came over to how to do Cobra, Doney was the one who shared with me as being the first sin batters doing moving vibration in LA. Who was this? Name is Doney Triplet. Anthony Triplet. Triplet. When was this? What, when did you? This is, this is, uh, we stayed on 78th and 77th Street, but the year was like '78, '79. And he was, he, he was. You said we was. We shared credit. We shared credit like as if we did this together. I'm trying to tell you somebody will come up with it, but you share it with somebody. Now you both can do it, but it looks different sometimes. Yeah. Uh, we shared credit for sin animation brought to the streets of LA. Okay. A dude named Bopit Ronnie, who I used to think was Robot Prince's student, is my brother's Triplet's student. Okay. So everybody thought that he did sin that first. Move your arm like the octopus, blah, blah, blah. Um, Baba Ronnie, who hung with Robot Prince, thought he was the greatest. And I, everybody, including me, thought Robot Prince was really good, no matter what. He got influenced by John Boyd. He's the advance of John Boy and the Robot Brothers. They panic robot. Okay. John Boy and. And John Boyy's from LA or based in LA? Well, I know him from LA, but that don't mean he come from LA. Okay. Okay. He might have been somewhere else. Okay. I don't know where he come from doing it, but he got to LA and got famous. He's in LA. Okay. God. Robot Prince. He does he does Panama, you know, all the stories. Cigars in the mouth. Yes. And then when when robot got it, he liked the story. Robot got his number. They talked to him. The robot got take make a box and said, "I'mma have do some pop locking with it." So the advance of him is adding some pop locking, which you would now call animations to the robot, but still tell stories. You don't need to move. He could stay still and smoke a cigar, eat an apple. He's minding. He's a modern mechanical mind. Okay, but he ain't really mechanical. But he tells the story and use the robot idea, right? Okay. You ain't gonna catch him doing old robot styles. That's not how it is. You gonna catch him telling a story though, like a mime, and it's gonna look good. Okay. You know, you. Oh, that's tight. Right. Right. And he was as just. He's been in the game just as long as me. In fact, one year after I was came to LA, '74, he started doing his in '75. Got it. Okay. So, if I wanted to claim when we was doing it, I could tell, "Robot got good and started '75." I was here already doing. Yeah. Robot. Okay. Got it. But the other dudes were there before. They were here when I got here. Got it. They were here when I came already. Robot masters. Whether they challenge each other or not, I don't know. They don't like. Like Slim don't like John Boy. I know that. Interesting. Okay. Because he he was good. He got famous. He took some of my [ __ ]. He feel he believed he was here. He was a real LA man. And whoever Slim when John Boy came, he said he got some of my [ __ ] and he took it and ran with it. That everybody who feel like they was first feel like somebody took their stuff. Right. Right. When I first seen the mechanical devices on T. When I first heard about the mechanical devices, somebody showed a clip of them in white hair. Yes. And I said, "They took my stuff." That's how that's how I felt. Uh-huh. And I had been to uh in '79, '80 before I left, I've been to Frisco. So I felt like, yeah, they saw me in action. They made a group, they changed. I, I met the Close Encounters who didn't keep up with me at that time, but I love that group of people. Okay. So I'm saying this is true. This is a back and forth thing that everybody get against somebody else who started you. You when whoever you see somebody start, you give them their credit, but you don't know where they got it from, and they got to tell you that, right? That once they tell you, you'll be able to put things in perspective. But it's hard because people meet at different times, right?

So, so Deuce, how, what was your relationship now? Deuce is my play brother, my second play brother. So I went, I went to him. Order my first play brother was Tripley. My second play brother is Deuce. Deuce, second big brother? Well, he was bigger than me, but he wasn't older than me. I. Well, you. Well, sorry. You were saying your second what brother? My my second street brother. Play brother. Got it. Brother. The street brother. Like a brother you, somebody who treated you kind on the street and you feel like you owe them because they treated you well. Best friend like close brother. Okay. No, no, no. Look, let me say this different. Let me say this different. Buddy buddy. That's not it. I don't want you guys to get the misrepresentation of street mentality back in LA when I grew up. In LA, there were people you knew who knew you. There were people who knew where you lived. They knew your mama, whatever. But that did not make them your friends. You just simply knew each other. I know a lot of people in LA who I got their name and know where they stayed at. They were not people I associated with all the time. That includes whether they were gang bangers or whatever. It didn't matter. But there were people who you did befriend. They was nice to you. They didn't fight you or they was they tried to be a friend. And when you meet somebody like that for me, because I was a runaway, I made people my family. So if your, if you actually took me to your house and your mother treated me well and say, "Make yourself at home," I'd be like, "I'mma call you Mom." She, we don't look alike, but in my mind, she's my mother now. Right. Right. Right. I adopted. I make her adopt me because she treated me well. And I would not let nothing happen to you or my mama and own my mama. I would not allow nothing to happen to you. Right. Now, the funny part is, while I was claiming a lot of mothers, I disenfranchised my own mama who I ran away from. You know, I didn't watch my own mama's house. I didn't care who who she was meeting, whatever. But if I went to your house, like I went to Doney's house, his mother fed me sometimes. She let me sleep on the couch sometime. They became my new adopted family. I was a new member of their family. I was really a new pet. I was a new dog, like a wise dog. If I, if they went out, somebody fight, they, somebody had to fight me, right? So Deuce became my second brother. His father treated me well. He treated me well. They were my new family. Now he has family that I don't even know nothing about. He has friends I don't know nothing about. I only know about him. And we had such a bond that even in the streets, when he danced, he mentioned me. He just didn't mention a lot because he knew I was a paranoid cat when I was young. Like I was paranoid. I didn't trust everybody. So if he go into a story, he know I didn't like people knowing what I did, how I do it, whatever. I was only way I stay myself protected is I was mystery to the people in the street. So now I talk a lot. I didn't talk back in those days. If I met you, I go, "Hey, what's up?" You go, "Man, where you going?" I, I would never tell you where I was going. You come over my house. I would never come over your house. To this day, I still don't answer. I mean, I still don't call people on my phone. Nobody in my world, my my old mama, only person who could say I call them is uh Kum Say because I'm with her. So when people try to get in touch with me, like AJ had my number, but since Kum Say with her, she the one who people contact to get in touch with me. I don't call AJ. I, I barely call uh Kum Say. She, she texts me. I put an emoji thumbs up. Everything okay? Don't do that. Very simple. What you doing? I'll tell you when you get home. See you when you get home. We'll talk when I get home. I'm still that character. But when I go out, like I'm talking to you now, I'm very. I talk a lot because I don't talk to everybody all the time. And I try to. I deliver the same story. I don't change my stories. But you can bring some new information if you felt you want to, right? But if I hear you start a lie, like I said something, you took it wrong, I correct you. I go, "No, man. I told you this. I don't know how you took it, but I told you this and you went there." Not that's different.

So, so what was the relationship? And Deuce could. Deuce was a one-armed popper. Let's get on Deuce so you can stay on the topic. Like you said, Deuce was my play brother first. He came to me after I turned out one of his heroes, which was called Tick and Dave, who moved from Morningside into LA. Tick and Dave was the student of a guy called Chicken Larry. Tick and Larry's a one-armed puppet, you know, one-armed bandit. And when I turned him out, his brothers turned their name to the Bionic Bugaloos or Bionic Boppers or something too. Uh, because bopping, the thing that I left was so different that people started trying to emulate it whether they could do it or not. And Deuce then asked me had he learned what I was doing because he saw me take out some people, including his, uh, the one he looked up to. And I said, "Sure." And I asked him to pop for me first. He showed me what he did. Okay, I see what you're doing, but that's not what I'm doing. Just I actually tied his arm to his body like, "Stop popping with your arm. Let's take that away and first pop with your legs and then take the legs away if you can." So I gave him training like military training to become as close to bopping as possible without taking away the moves he did. So I didn't tell him, "Dance like me." "Do what you do, just add this to what you do." And he did it. And I was the one who helped him with what's called a trace wave, adding characters, so him and animations could look a lot alike because they could change their body to a dinosaur and a character, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, uh, Deuce also was on a couple videos, including Breaking. He was on there doing the trace waves, kind of buff guy doing trace wave down his body. That he was also influencing people. So yeah, he was a, he was a gang banger, my brother, until he got around me and I kept him out of the streets as best as possible. I fought for him many times. And the, the thing is, is he got. When I left, he fell into the influence of not only was I one of the baddest persons, but one of the second baddest person that was similar to me. He, he went to Jefferson. At Jefferson, he turned down everybody every day for a week except for a guy called Robot Prince. So he, he called me to go get Robot Prince. So I'm came out a lot. His father enrolled me in Jefferson. I'm a mascot for LA at the time. And he enrolled me in Jefferson and I went to Jefferson to dance and I danced up against two or three of their guys, but nobody was really on that level, but they just to show them who I was. And they took me back to the other Robot Prince in the backyard and I met him and and he was good. He's the same way he is now. He was like that then, but I was doing way more stuff even at that time. So we met and then later on, Robot, if you guys ever watch Soul Train, you'll see Robot in the voice, but at that time he was trying to be a popper. When he was doing those moves, he was doing me, Robot Prince, he was doing you. Okay. Yeah. He didn't pop. He's not a. He's not a popper. Even today, he stays still. He's a pan. He look. If you take a person, put him in front of you, and they do the wall, open the door, fly a kite, smoke, do. He's a panomime. He stays still and robot panomime. He's a statue. Do Panama. He didn't move. He didn't have a how to move, right? So, when you see him try to do a move and he step to the side and step to the left and he boom, he gives his credit to two people though. He first only gave it to Buu because I'm the nemesis of him. He thought I was messing with his girlfriend. Nemesis. Buu. Buu was your nemesis? Buu was not my nemesis. Buu was his nemesis. Oh, interesting. He gives his credit to Buu. Buu sometime. Buu say Buu the bot. Right. He says Buu the box. Okay, but that's Robot Prince's one of him. He said, "I seen Rob. I seen this dude step forward and go boom and he shook and it looked like a puppet shaking. You know, it looked unreal." And that's why he wants to have a nice hit. But you, but you didn't. He's looking at Buu, but you're not looking at Buu. I never looked at Buu. Never was weak. Interesting. But he was good at being choreography at that time. He brought choreography from up north down to LA. And everybody, including, uh, Royal Flush and them, all looked at Buu because he moved, but also he, um, he made group routines that nobody in LA had. And by the time they took their routine, like if you ever go find out Royal Flush or you go the Confederates or some other teams that want to make this up a group routine, I did Cosmic Space Poppers, who challenged all these other people because I said, "This is where it come from," and I gave them something else to do. So I made the nemesis team for LA by influence only. But I also made my own nemesis team. Uh, this is my brother, uh, my first brother Triplet, my second brother Deuce. And and while I was a mascot for Fremont, I came up with the name Bopatron. Bopatron at a Batron was a group that never fulfilled this. I never materialized the group. I wanted Robot Prince. I wanted Tangerine. I didn't even care if my brother Doney was in it or not. But he was still my play brother. I didn't care if Deuce was in it or not, but he was still my play brother. I was looking for me, Bop and Ronnie, Grow by Prince, and Tangerine. That was to me the ultimate, uh, group. Wow. Like the Avengers of LA. Yes. And and that was like, "Oh, if I get this group together, we'd be bad." And what I didn't have, the robot prince said, he said he had this guy who was the captain of Close Encounters, which the friend of mine named Lanny was once a member of that, that's his cousin named Mark Elliot in Frisco, who had the number one group in Frisco over the Demons of the Mind. It was Close Encounters. It was the last group to win all the battles. Wow. All right. And so I wanted that that dance captain to be in our team. It happened to be a guy named Buu who made a fake group to represent Close Encounters and he called his group Close Encounters down here in LA, which not the Close Encounters of the Funkiest Kind from San Francisco. So Buu was sort of curving the name of other groups. He had a demons group, not Demons of the Mind, but a demons group, and he would do what Demons of the Mind would do. Okay. So he was like making these like these copy kind of original. He was making copies of the originals. Interesting. And I do not know where he got Fantastic 4 for, but Buu looked like the theme from Fantastic 4. So that group could have literally been his. I wouldn't know. I don't know that history until he tells you that. But the but the movements that he had was something that LA did not understand at that time. We were individual dancers. When we dance in a group, it's this, it's this, it's like we, everybody in this meeting, we get together, we like each other. We say, "Hey, we the group." And now we the Zoom group, right? We don't got no routines, right? One or two might have done something together, so only those two could go out and do something, which is how, uh, the Blue City Strutters, you guys call them the Booya tribe. Now, there was a Heckle and Jeko, which was a real. I don't know if they were real twins either, but they danced alike with each other before Heckle. They were called Heckle and Jeko, the original. Now they group, they told you they could do a group routine. They was Blue City Strutters, but only two went out and did a routine to turn you out if you broke down to two. They had like they could dance individually and do a trip or like a do two-man routine. Everybody else just solo dance. So if I had Deuce stand with me, we never have a routine. I had me and Triplet, he had to learn a routine because we had to do a halftime show. So, we learned a baby stand in line, follow-up domino routines, which if you ever seen Mark Benson and his crew called the Dominoes that got into the movie, that Dominoes was a little Coco and all them dancing. That was based on our dance routine, uh, the about the tribe. Literally a copy of our routine. Wow. Okay. Wow. And that's why we, I still have respect for them. They have respect for me. Hey man, we saw you. We did this. And I was like, yeah. And they represented that routine when they went out. They, they represented a good routine that to me could beat out most of the people in LA with that routine. Right. And that was the Dominoes. Our team was originating that. Okay.

But I'm still influenced by the people from the Bay. I got influenced by Close Encounters. You said you were influenced by Close Encounters. When I went up there in '79, I was trying to make a group as I told you, LA Brew, but I wanted to have the best, you know, dance routine choreographer. And that made me go meet Closer Kind of the Funkiest Kind, Mark Elliot, right? When I got there though, his group wasn't working anymore, but he had films, tapes, and costumes. He impressed me a lot. I impressed him a lot. In fact, I p him so much he br his whole team to come watch me. I dance. They, I said, "Let's battle." But when I dance, nobody wanted to dance, man. We moved on. We don't do none of that [ __ ]. They took me to all the clubs. Palladium. They stayed open. The first time I've ever been to a club under the not grown. And it stayed open till like six o'clock in the morning. It was called a Palladium in Bristo. Wow. And that was the first time I ever seen a club stay open all night long. And when I came back here, everything was shut down two o'clock, you know, one o'clock, two o'clock, right? So it, it influenced me thing. They also showed me Fisherman Wharf. I made money at Fisherman Wharf. And when I came out here, nobody was working on the beach. I started busting on the beach of Dennis Beach. First one. First one. First. That's why people started going to the beach at Dennis Beach. Interesting. Because I was down there dancing and making money. Okay. That's why you knew to go there. Okay. I did. I learned that from Frisco, like San Francisco, the Bay, which is the people who influenced me to do that. Got you. Okay. Put a hat, you know, put bring a stereo, later on, bring some other equipment. That was they, they're the one gave me the bussing game to make money. Wow. Okay. Wow.

Kum, I'm gonna, Kumsek, I know I want to ask you a question as well. Um, I'm very sorry. I'm very sorry. No, no, no apologies. No apologies at all because these are all this information is what people we want to hear. We want to know so all the details. So no, no apologies at all. Um, Kuma, I want to, I want to ask you, what are your thoughts about this robot and animation? What from from when you first started in Korea to now, what has shifted for you or what of of the style of your understanding of it? Like what what do you feel has been a like, oh wow, like a new, I, I don't know if that makes sense what I'm asking, like how I'm thinking about low body and animation now, yeah, from when you first started to now, what has changed? What has? My thinking, my thinking that the still on the way. Uh, but can I ask you something if you don't? Huh? What most thing, uh, people getting very confusing about animation right now? Or I think we have knowledge for robot right now, but what's the main thing people getting really confused about this animation? You're asking me the what? Um, people thinking. Yeah. And Colin as well, you know, I think if you want to share your thoughts, I know Colin been in the group as well talking about it. From my perspective, what I would say is this, when you know, it's interesting, okay. I feel it all started when Flattop was a judge for an animation event. Flattop was a judge for the animation event and he selected his top 16. When that happened, Fiction, which everyone knows, you know, Fiction, I love that part. That was just not recently recent, you know, people are popular. Fiction, you know, very viral, very, uh, known dancer. He, he asked Flattop to explain to me, "What is animation?" and to tell me, "Why didn't I make it past prelims?" Uh, I don't think Flattop and Fiction had a conversation of understanding. And due to that, due to that, made a whole confusion where J-Rock got involved and he was, you know, he was going to show Fiction, try to like kind of like put him in his place in a sense. Um, and then from, so then that was the first thing that happened. And then I think after that, when there was like animation events like with Unimate, I think like the first time, um, again, people were getting into prelims that were doing crumping. Some people were doing more like flexing. Uh, there you started to see multiple styles. Some people were doing like kind of contemporary, you know, being a little odd. Even myself, which I'm with all these conversations, I wouldn't consider myself an animator. When I look back at what I'm doing, I wouldn't say, "Okay, I understand." Like, I wouldn't say what I was doing was animation. So even me, I was getting, you know, into past stuff. So I think what happened was people were watching this and they're like, "Wait a second, what is this animation?" Because it looks like everyone is getting in. You know, nobody, you can't, nobody can tell the difference. People doing robot, people doing the same thing in robot category. Same thing in animation category. So there was this. I'm sorry, but that's really true. Like, I, I totally understand. Right. So, so that was happening. And then, uh, in other events in Europe, because, you know, Animation Week in Paris, they had an animation event. And you would see again, certain dancers doing tutting on the floor. And then you go to Russia. Russia has Back to the Future. You see people doing miming for the animation event. So there, so the, I think, and then Clocks. Clocks starts. You know, he was asking questions. He made a. I interviewed him. Um, and he's asking, "What are these? What, what is this style? What is the foundations of it?" You know, because he was seeing the concern, the concern that, you know, anyone could say, "I'm an animator. I'm an animator." They can. That's so people, you know, if someone's looking for a gig, if there's a music video, a work that, like, "Okay, we're looking for an animator." There's like no clear picture of what actually is an animator. Uh, so that was, so, so I think these questions started coming up and that's when the concern and more of the questions of, "Okay, what, what's going on here?" Um, so back to that's the main reason why you're trying to like interview with a lot of different people and you wanted to hear from that, their opinion, right? They have a lot of confused. The idea is to. The idea was interview the people that were on the forefront of this, the people that a lot of people either respected or they saw as they pushed animation. So we know the Bay Area had stuff going on there. We know that there was they were they were watching films as well. We know Andre is a person that was pushing animation LA, you know, uh, we know Dragon House viral push it on a on a on a scale bigger internet internet. So what the idea is, let's talk to these people and let's see how did, what, what did they see? How did they see this dance, this animation dance? How did they explain it? What, what were they thinking? Because again, I understand everyone, everyone has different views of it. But if we can see a picture of these different generations and these people, maybe we can look at this map and we're like, "Okay, like I get it." Like the Bay Area, they're not going to explain it exactly how LA or Andre is going to say it. U Andre's not going to say it how Dragon House is going to say it. But if we have a picture, I would say about the same. You gonna find out it's about the same. Same thing. I, I, I gave it to the guy called Chad. I gave my style and the Andre version to Chad Mad the Robot. I told him, "Stop trying to pop lock and stop trying to do the other stuff." But he still wanted to hit like a bopper. And Chad became pretty much famous and his best friend, uh, at that time, I can't remember his name. Uh, he went to Humuda, Texas. Who the, who the, who's Chad's friend? Uh, Ace. Ace. There you go. So, so I gave. So, I gave it to Chad. Ace was around when I was giving it to Chad and Ace decided he listened what I did and he started doing the Panama versions because I gave him some ideas and then they, those two went to from Texas to Atlanta and they impressed the people dancing there. Thumpets and wavers and they learned different movements really good and then they learned how to get more android. So we already had our meeting of the minds there and I changed the game for most of them, including Blue Cran Android. They came out, boy men, bring them out. And we went to a club and I showed them the difference between how they was working and what they could do with. And they did what they were doing. You gonna find out what I'm saying is true. Now, now what who they look at after that? Because I don't do everything that everybody do. I don't really never mind. But, but I'm letting you know I get what you're saying.

I want to make two comments without going very far. The first real time that this was a mix-up, even when the word animation started to be used instead of the word poppy, was in Japan. They took the Bugaloo version because I went there a couple of times and they was very impressed by me. And I didn't have the same history from the Baloo. You know, Baloo Poppers. So, they made a whole TV show and you can pull up Japan and it, they had a TV show, "Bugaloo Versus Animation," right? I saw that video. Yeah. Yeah. And these people were just doing pieces of either what they thought regular poppy would be without the Baloo curves, and they put all popping under the umbrella of animation, not just what animation specifically is supposed to be, right? But everything that they could do back from Sheen's Cobra with some vibrate and some of the stuff they saw me do, they figaloo. So that would be animation. That was the first ticketed ideal. There wasn't bopping. It wasn't Baloo versus Bopping. It wasn't Baloo versus Strutton. It was whatever it wasn't Bugaloo. They separated the two, right? And from that, more people started picking that up. A guy called Fish was traveling to most Asian towns and he was trying to bring bopping and animation, the word, to them and he was changing it. And he got into fights with the Baloo on the same trips. H. So there was a big separation between people who could regular dance like Pop Lock, Boppy, Compton Poppy, and the Boogaloos. Okay. And that those were the two big classes.

Now, the one that you mentioned, which I'm very familiar with and I can tell you because it's by osmosis that I'm familiar with. Number one, I love Fiction. Fiction can animate. He was told he couldn't animate by Flattop, which was wrong. Flattop animates, but only sometimes. Interesting. Okay. Blacktop is not an animator. Blacktop can animate. And Blacktop's whole movement is strictly musicality, music-based. So, if you ever want to see Flattop ever vibrate and move, the music has to be on a quick drum roll, right? I've seen the performances. When it goes like that, he'll go stay still and vibrate or he'll move with it, right? Like, "I'mma be on time." So, the music went clack, clack, clack, clack. Listen, if he go clack, clack, clack, clack, right? He's only going to move on the claps, right? That's his whole base. He's a ticker to the music. So watch. Clack, clack, clack, clack. He don't move. If the.

Music ain't clacking or some sound ain't making a sound, but he can move to. He ain't gonna do it. So you'll never catch him doing a uh, you'll never catch him doing a stroll without the music going quick enough to let him stroll. Interesting. Okay. I'm just saying you just don't understand the mechanics behind what the person is doing. So you get messed up. Right. Right. Because I, I'll be honest, when I, like I, when I would see Flattop, I'm like, oh, he's animating. Like everything he's doing is like when he's t when he's doing the slow motion, when he's, you know, watch the same. They're the same things that I brought to the game to help influence him. Okay. What, what's your relation to Flattop and your dance? Is there? I met Flattop when I came back trying to be a promoter. Uh, I was going to do a club promotion. As I said, I was a club promoter. I went to Red Onion. I, I put Red Onion on a map in LA doing nightclub. And some girl named Jennifer, a guy named Lamont, who's a comedian. They started to say, "Let's do a dance competition or a talent competition." They didn't have dance competitions back then. They had talent. So, you could lip sync, you could sing, you could dance. And Flattop showed up one day with his with his flat top. It wasn't the way they now, but it was still a flat top. Look like Cameo type thing. But he did his ticking to the musicality of a rock and roll song and he could tick and he was very black. Has like the other poppers in the old day. Black Flattop had nimble. We called it being, we didn't call it flexible then, we called it being nimble. So black, black top could be was very nimble then. So you could put, you know how when people do the l the li the limbo, they put a stick across and you can go under it. How low can you go? Right. Flattop can already do that. He still does that. That's how he goes down, put his chest up, and you know, he go down. But the thing about Flattop's limbo, he didn't just drop down slowly like hydraulics. He only clip down like tick version. Clip, clip, clip. Now, I tell people all the time that ticking animation, send all these are the same technique. It's just different rhythms of speed, different timing. So when Flattop ticks, what you said you saw him animate all the time, his face, that is a version of animation. Okay. But it's the base version. It's like, it's like the stick drawing version. Everybody who's ticking is doing stick drawing. Okay. You know, like you draw, right? One motion, you take the next page. You draw the second, what you want to be. You take the next, and when you look at it, it's tick, tick, tick, tick. Right. Whenever it goes real fast, like a flip book. Now you can see it go. There's some little glitches in it. Yes, that will be real animation. Okay. I, I feel what you why they call it claymation. What you just said, once it's sped up, it's real animation. Yes. Okay. So, I think this is going to answer a lot of questions. Would you say that true animation? Say it. Would you say? Oh, so sorry. So, Kumi, say wanted to say something. She had an arm up there as a question. Yes. You had a question. I, I know, but this is, is it one part, but you know what, like, as a student, I'm, I'm, I'm learning too, right? For animation right now. I think we have to switching the word. It's not like, what is animation? We have to, we have to looking for what type of animation we're looking for. What type of animation? What, what she's saying is not like we waiting for somebody's answer to, what is animation? They decided. We have to. No, no. We have to ask him for, for what type of animation we're looking for. Because it was really weird because you just, uh, what is animation? Maybe that word means animation can be everything, but that's not what we're looking for, right? I want to say this. She's really good when she say, no. I'm, I'm on the same part as she's. She knows what she wants to say animation is. But since the world is so out and it's so covered, it's a cover word. Remember I told you, they mix the word animation to mean anything popping. So that if you want to wave, that could be animation. The truth is, the word animation means to move life like. That's the true word definition. Go to any definition. To move like life. That's why we're getting confused. So meaning, there can be anything. Even I'm just here and my hands up. This can be animation also. Right. But what this dance war is, what we're looking for is almost 80, 90% that's not what they're looking for. That's the reason why I have a lot of confused. They seeing some animation battle. Oh, that is animation because that's not what we thinking. That's the animation. You know, I think that's 90% like people thinking in claymation is animation. Look, claymation, the closest reference to using claymation, which claymation is animated. Even in the film world, it's taking a piece of clay and doing stop motion photography and then speeding it up so it looks real. So that's what I'm saying. So what part over animation? Because we just look, okay, technique-wise means anybody stop or changing the speed or whatever, that can be animation. You know what I mean? So turning, waving, everything stop can be animation. That's the animation. But that's not what we're looking for right now. This animation robot, that's not what we're looking for. So we have to decide what we're looking for. What type of animation we're looking for? You know, I, I understand this confusion. I understand the direction that you're using. That's the reason why, like always, we go in some competition and seeing some animation battle, whatever they think. This is almost like a freestyle, all right? You know, like so, but that actually maybe you really mean to it. Animation means can be anything. It is animation now. You know what I mean? You repeated that. Hold on. You repeated that. But watch this. Watch, watch what I'm saying. Even I'm moving this and stop. I'm using animation right now. You know, like I am the first person who told everybody that everybody who moves, moves as a living person, is already animated. Whether you're mad, you're not mad, and you move. Everything that moves is animated. A tree blowing in the wind is animated in real life. But that's not in our dance forum. That's what I'm saying. If you walked into a dance routine as a normal person, took out a cigarette and smoked and walked around everything and then walked off the stage, you were animated in real life, but you wasn't dance animated. You wasn't animated for, that's what she's saying. The focus for the dancers. What do we call animation? Right? If she walked in that same thing and decided to go slow, slow motion, we now accept slow motion to be animated. But in the old days, slow motion was not called animation. Right. Correct. Right. Okay. So, in the old days, you vibrated. You just vibrated, but you didn't move other than the vibration. They didn't call that animation. In the old days, it was the moving forward. That was when there you go. That's when it became animated. Wait a minute. Number two. If you did a robot and you stood still, we call it the mannequin or statue. You did look like a statue and you look like a mannequin, but they didn't say you were animated. Not yet. No, it wasn't. Right. There was no motion. Right? So even when you come back and go, "Hey man, I'm a statue." You don't go, "Oh, he animating over there." Because he's a statue. You say, "Oh, he animating a statue." A statue don't move. So there's no, there's no classification over you. Right. Now, what if you act like you was a complete wave? Like, let's take the guy from, uh, New York, the rubber band man guy. Right. Right. He's waving waves all the time. Yeah. He, he bruises on his feet. He never looked and say, "Oh man, he waved." No. You go, "Oh, he wavy." Or he noodly or whatever you would claim would be close to what you thought that was. Right. Right. Now today you can say, "Oh, he was moving so much. He was very animated." But even when you look at the old schools, nobody looked at him and say he was animated. Nobody. Okay. When you see a good waiver, Skywalker elsewhere, you know, you know he's being a a rubber band on very goose. You don't say, "Oh, he octopus, he being squiddy, whatever." It's liquid. You don't say, "Oh, lamination." It wasn't until the cobra, which didn't wasn't called animated either, until it started adding vibration. That's That's what I'm saying. Depend, even though you move around, but how you animate it is make the difference. If you do cobra or if you do the old man, which they say the cobra dad or old man routine with his chest and you didn't vibrate, it wasn't called animation. If you could do it and vibrate it, they he vibrated that he was in motion. Now they can call that strobe or animation or whatever you want to do. Okay, that's how easy this is. Okay. I think that clears up a lot. So my understanding then is the vibration moving or the look or effect of vibration that would make strobe vibration moving. It could be a strobe or kick basket. Okay. Now, now what about when people do basic arm moves like, you know, to the front, to the side, almost like, but you doing slow motion four count. This is not animated. No, not not saying that you're not, but if I want to talk about dancing and I go boom, boom, boom, boom, I'm only moving on this count, right? And I'm moving different parts of my body, they don't call it ticking. Okay? But if I move one hand and I go down to co, boom, boom. One hand motion, they call it ticking. Okay? If I go from here to here on a beat, boom, boom. They don't say I am making. No, they go, "Oh, he's doing a move. He just, he he making these boxes, you know. I can do I can do that all day long. They're not going to say I'm ticking or I'm animating, but let me do that with one arm. Let me move my hand these motions." I even know from if I do this and I don't break it down between it's not even called ticking. Even if I'm moving the same beat, but the same beat and I go here, here, here, they call that ticking, ticking. Okay. If I go faster, double time, quicker, even faster. Now he's it's crazy strobing. He's animating. He's animating. See? So simple. Okay. Okay. If you turn your head from left to right, I don't care if it's not robotic. That that's not ticking and not animating. If I tick it, I'm supposed to go somewhere between it. I tick it. If I go quicker like this, oh, it's simple. Okay. Same motion, just different. But if you focus on, uh, technique-wise about the animation, they're going to think in dime stop speed control. But, but I told you, we talk about this, uh, baby, let me talking. I hear you. I'm not saying in your ear. I get echoes. We're close. Okay. But I heard that. But you say the word stop, which also throws people off. Ticking and dime stop are the same thing. No, I'm, I'm saying maybe people just focus on technique-wise animation. They're going to say speed change, timing change, control. That could be animation, right? So any dance you just stop over there and change the speed, that can be animation. But that's not what we're looking for. So that's why like people getting confused about that. You know what I mean? Like animation. So like to me is we have to decide what type of animation we're looking for. Like technique-wise, that means any anything can be animation. But I don't think that's what we're looking for. A lot of animation does not. That's not. I get what you're saying. So slow motion, another thing that slow motion is something I did not create. I didn't start that. I go by didn't start that. You know that slow motion. I became, uh, payments for changing the way slow motion look. So most of the people do their popping slow motion. They do that under my brain. They don't do slow motion the way old Panama do it, which is very extreme. Right? You know, they do it sort of like they move normally, right? Without doing shapes. It's not true animation, but it's under the umbrella of what Drake did, which is a version of the movie. Not so they took the word animation as a new word. Not say slow motion is now used under the animation style. You're animating. But remember, everything you're doing, whether it's fast or slow, is animation. But the way you look, which my girl trying to say, we're looking for a specific theme to be animated. You can still tie waves as animation. Always. That's what I did. I did versions of wave. Never the best wave. I was never best, but I did them. Arm wave, body wave, through the back, and on the ground waves. I did those things and other people could do them much better than you. But like, that's, that's what I'm saying. But like, we have to decide what type of animation we're looking for. Maybe not, and we're not communication about that. It is actually everything. Even just wave, I'm animating. So you are animating. I'm repeating. I'm repeating to tell you that you are animating when you're waving. That, that's what I'm saying. Go like, we are not looking for that in a dance contest. That's why we have a confusion right now. Let me know if I can make a a comment real quick to. Oh, I can. I hear it clear. If this, if this is clear what you're saying, in animation, in a, in the dance context, in the dance context of animation, you need to be moving in a vibration texture. That is you are animating. So slow motion in itself is not animation. Um, rewind, going reverse is not animation. And waving is, it's a waving. It's not animation in a dance context. But once you put that vibration texture on top of anything, then that's animation. Is would you say Andre? Oh my god. Okay. Yes and no. I cannot hear what you say. Yes and no. Let, let me. I get what you're saying. Watch, like, I don't know because you, I hear what you're saying. I'm gonna make it clear because I don't want nobody to get too confused about it. So number one, if you want to keep a purest idea, a purest idea, you know, like real form, you know how we got, you know, you got red and then you got red light, you know, as light gets to it, it turns become roselike, it become pinkish, it gets to it, it turns away from red. The pure line, the pure line animations, just the word alone defines that if you're trying to communicate to anybody that you're unreal moving like in stop frame very fast would be the vibration motion. All right? That's why you would call it 3D or strobing or whatever. That's the, the closest word when you don't say bad, which means just as a character, right? Using the same technique means means if I send that I'm supposed to be communicating to you that I'm something like I'm I'm a creature. I'm I'm an elephant. No, I'm doing something to give you a creature's motion. That's what Simbad mean. Add a character. Right. Take the character away and just use the technique. I can still do this and look at you. You don't. I'm a person looking at you now, but I'm moving in the technique. Yes. Right. This would be true form, true form animations. Okay? And to learn that, you need to be true form. True form slowing those rhythms down. That's the timing. I didn't mean go slow motion with it. I didn't mean go. Right. Right. Right. I meant it was a tick. You, I'm going this now. I go slower. Slower. That's me learning how to get that that this jitteriness. This jitteriness, jittery. You want the effect of jitteriness. Jitteriness. It ain't just go and stop. It's have that jitter, that little shake, that quiver, something from point A to point B. That's true animation. And if you can do that slow or fast, you're still animated. Why? I mean that by that's why I said it's not. If I can do this like this, I'm moving pretty quick, right? But if I can do that like this, I'm moving some smoothness and some jitter. It's still animations. Okay. Okay. Just to have the jitter effect is what you're communicating to the person watching you. Okay. Now, when you pick, do you have a jitter effect? You definitely have a stop motion, right? But it's not, it's not, it's not complete like something. There you go. See, it's the start. The effect isn't there, right? It's like, it's like if I was making a stop motion film and I saw someone ticking, I'd be like, it's we need to speed it up. We need to speed up. You would say then it'll be animation. It'll be. There you go. You every cartoon, every film, every film, every cartoon, everything since the time we had motion. Yes. For inanimate object, even motions of people, they take snapshots of you. The film is just taking more camera pictures of you. If it went and stopped, you'd be in the middle like this. They wouldn't say you animated, right? You on film, right? And then went to the next one. They say, "Oh, it's slide buck or it's click motion." Right. They would come up with another name for. They probably wouldn't call it, right? Right. Whatever that effect is, if they slowed it down and you only caught bits of them moving. Yes. Oh, they moving toward the door. They don't even do this in film. They don't take a bullet and show the bullet go wink halfway and then we go another second and then they show the person's eye go. They don't show that in film. They show motion and they'll show slow motion though. That's why they call this another thing of animation. It's kind of hard because with in film, if I was shooting a gun at you, they may show the bullet. Slow it down enough that you can see the bullet coming out. It don't stop and tick, but it's coming at you and you, they show you go right to you or blow your head off or whatever it may be. Right. Right. So that's why they try to add the fact that in film, uh, sometimes there's no glitches. All our animation today, which is computer generated, don't have glitches anymore. The creatures that they move ain't in stop motion. So when when my girl says, what are you looking for in the dance world? I tell her, you guys are just looking at old time. You're looking at for vintage film making techniques. You're looking for that. Because if you take a computer generated and move a bat, it could be smooth as I don't know what. There's no glitch in it. He's, he's there's no there. Look, there's no this. There's no. No, there isn't. There's just this, right? It's so smooth. Okay. And only time you get this and when you get that new movie, uh, cartoons as well, that don't have glitches, they use slow motion for their effect, right? Since it's all real, they slow the film down. So when now they, when they focus that only with focus. So they show the person talking. They show a picture flip to another person talking. Then they go, this person to reach for a gun. They show he reaches slow motion. On the in animation cartoons, he reaches slow motion. He pulls it out. He goes and then he goes and the bullet takes time. The hair be flying. You know, they only use slow motion. No ticking. Right. So I think what we need to, it, it's, I think what confuses people is because what we just said was animation, which was the jittery movement, moving towards, uh, that is the purest, that's the pure form, that's the purest form of animation. And then slow motion is not that jittery effect, that's different. But then when we talk about current films of animation, it's now animation. Current evolution. The, the evolution of animation was jittery click and slow motion. That's where we are. That's the current. Okay. Okay. The current. That's the current. The current. Okay. There's no, there's no film out today. No film movie making person today making any, uh, clicky, uh, clicky, glitchy side effect monsters whatsoever. There's no cartoons even moving like that. Okay. Okay. The technology is faster. The film vision to the eye effect is easier on you. Yes. We don't got Gucci no more. They don't make no glitchy nothing modern. That's that's a thing of the past. That's that's vintage. That's something that's that's as old as I am. Dinosaur. And y'all looking for vintage. Y'all looking for vintage animation as an effect. Oh, [ __ ] I can take you back in the day, right? Okay. Question, question. Is NPC animation? Yes, it is. But it's current. Okay. NPC is the NPC is computer generated movement that's on current format, slow motion, but sped up so it looks more normal. But the reason why they moving, they make them move back and forth. NPC has a repeat pattern. That's the cartoons being repeated to give it breath or whatever. Okay. So look, if I stand here and just do this, I'm really doing a circle to get that breath. Right. Right. And then I move or I, I can, I can shoot to the move. Yeah. I can get there quick or I can get there bouncy like a puppet. Right. Right. Okay. Okay. So, I feel like it's modern. It's modern animation. Modern animation of the NPC. Okay. Okay. Question. Is Dime Stops the foundation of animation? The Dime Stop is the learning. Pick a new seat. I got dime stop is not the foundation of animation, but dime stop is the actual technique to provide when you speed it up animation. So, so look, look, look, let's, let's go back to this. When you draw a picture, just a picture of a stick man and you put it in front of you, it ain't animated. Remember I told you the statue that don't move, right? Then you ain't animated. That's not the, that's not the base of animation. If you can't move, stop moving. Stop moving. Just stand there. Just do, do the statue and stand there. Oh yeah. If I'm like this, okay? If you stay there and don't do nothing, then you ain't gonna know. You gonna be what you are. Stop picture. That's a photo. That's a moment in time. You're not animating. Now do one motion away from that. One take version away like this. Okay. When you do this, you're not animating, but you're building the framework of animation. Now, try to do that fast as you possibly can, right? Oh, then well, like that's, yeah. When you do this, you're on the B. Look, go slow first. Do, do a tick slow. Go, go, go, try to do the same increment of clock. Now go back up a little faster than you can down. Now go faster than that, going down, loose with vibration pieces. So everything that went faster than the tick that was stopped or slow is animated. There's a, there's a slow, there's an average, there's going, there's animation going. You might be animation when you say you ticking like one, two, three, and what you're using is dime stop to come to your stop. We calling that that stop motion, the dime stop. Like if I get here and just freeze everything, right? Freeze everything. Your face, your body, nothing moves. That's the dice stop version. Let's be in a statute. Yes. Now move to the next one and freeze everything, then. That's another one. Okay. It, that's the base of trying to speed that up. That creates I was in motion. And you call every frame. We should have called this frame. Ticky should be called frame. Interesting. Frames, right? You know, you, you, you, you're in framework. Right. And when you move in framework, now it's the speed. Now, if I go 30 miles an hour, I'm a little quicker. Right. Right. Okay. Okay. And if I go, I did the same thing, but now I'm going even quicker now. I'm even faster. Right. I'm moving, but there's some shakes. Right. Now I'm moving so smooth, it's almost normal. Right. And now I'm moving normal. Right. Ah, I love that. I love the progression. You get what I'm saying? That's is the This is not only what we have done in the past to the future. It's what we're doing now. And we're, we're putting on different names because the effect looks different. Right. Okay. It's not that the technique is different. The effects are different. Technology. Right. Right. And the speed is moving. Our speed limit in animations is what makes a robot because people don't hardly do a vibrating robot. They don't. They haven't figured that out. But if you stand as a robot and vibrating move, you're animating the robot. You're still doing a robot, but you're doing mechanical pieces to it. Whereas if you do waves, you're not doing a robot, but if you add the vibrations to it, you can still make your wave very shaky. So that's animated your your wave. I think a key take. It's almost two. I'm talking too long. She was trying to let me know. No. Um, I, I think a few questions I want to ask. I know where it's two o'clock now. Um, I'm not worried about time. I only got one DJ. Okay. Okay. This is this is great right here. Also for for anyone else that's here as well, there's a question you have. I know you know Zilla's here, Colin. Um, feel, feel free to write it here so I'll, you know, I can ask that question. Um, okay, question is, animation, okay, is animation dance? What we're doing is that a dance? Like doing this? I guess this is my confusion. Let me, let me clarify that. Animation is not a dance. Hold on. Let me, let me clarify. I already, I already got your answer. No, I made a mistake. I already got, I got your answer. I made a, I think I made a mistake. So I want to retract it. I, I understand that animation comes from, is a film technique. Also, people use it in different ways of bringing stuff to life. And I understand that dancers are taking imitating these stop motion characters, you know, the vibration to become, uh, this animated character. I guess what I'm trying to say is there seems to be this confusion because poppers have the Fresno, they have the walkout, um, wavers, they have certain foundational moves for their steps. House has house has their step, locking has their step. So they're dance styles, but there's something with animation that seems confusing. There's something of like, it it doesn't seem to have its own steps. It doesn't seem to make sense. What I'm saying. It made exactly 100% sense of what you're saying. And I don't know if anybody's ever listened to me say this forever. But I'm not a dancer. I'm glad that the dancing community has accepted me and put me in dancing. When I robot, I don't even think a robot dance. It's not saying that when you have a robot, it can't dance, but a robot's a robot by giving you the communication that is unlocked as heavy as mechanical. You know, you, you're not moving just because the music moving unless you want to. And if you could vibrate anything, and I do mean anything, even a dance, you could be animated. Animation just means to add the technique to whatever you're doing. Okay, that's playing pool. If you add a shake to playing pool, if you want to dance to music and shaking, right? You can add a shake to anything you, any dance that's out there. Even hip-hop dancers, if you add a vibration to it, you killing it because most people don't think to do that. Right. Right. It seems people are stuck on robot as the form of like, they because they had to learn to get the. So, they wanted to do two things. The first thing they wanted to do is to look unreal. The effect of looking unreal, right? The, the effect of looking unreal is what make all these effects that we're doing in this umbrella popping to me, which is now called animation to me, is the umbrella is to look unreal. When you're when you're animated, you're supposed to look unreal, right? You know, there's an effect, right? So slow motion, it's not that you're not a real person, but you stop time and it's supposed to look unreal going quick, right? This is, this is, this is unreal. Oh, my back like that. How do you know? He's just shaking. I don't know if he's shaking or not. I don't know what he's doing, but it looks like he's just moving quick for some reason. I don't know. Okay, that's unreal. That's animated. Now, I didn't say it's animated because I was doing a true form of animation. Listen, true form of animation. I need to do this fast thing and have quivers and shakes between it. Yes. But all I did was sped up the film. Yes. Just like slowing it down. There's no shaking. No. It's just slowed it down for the modern framework. Panama. Okay. Okay. Right. Now, do we have our own movements as an animator in true form? No. And we don't need it. I don't. You don't need every person to get into a contest and do exactly the same thing to be formulated as a dance. Every other dance, every other dance in the world, regular dance has a pattern, right? Which is so interesting. One, two, one, two, loop. One, two, one, two, loop. Right. Two to the left, two to the right. Left to the right. Every dance has a pattern. Yes. Animation is a technique. It is not a pattern of a dance. It's how you do it. Now, as an example, you can move still. That's a pattern. It's a, it's a different technique. It's a different texture. You could be stiff when you dance. One, two, three, four. That's like people doing robot, right? Or you could be loose, right? Or you could be, uh, super wavy, snaky. You could do all these things. Those are textures, right? Those are textures. If I say one, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. Or one, two, three, four. Same pattern, but the texture. Okay. One's loose, one's tight. I can also go one, two, three, four. I go one, two, three, four. Right. That's texture, right? The speed, the timing, the slow, if it's hard, if it's, it's texture. It's not the pattern of the dance itself. Got it. Okay. Animation. Animation does not need a pattern. The animation is not a certain type of move you do. Okay. People have the closest to being an animated proper with a pattern is everybody doing cobra with vibration. It's already everybody goes this. Right. Right. They do go around. Right. The turn around and so forth. That's a pattern. Okay. And everybody use tacos or that kind of pattern. Taco pattern waving, waving taco pattern. They use that as animation. That's a base. I'm everybody learned that. Okay. Okay. All right. That's that's the closest thing to an animated pattern. Okay. Yes. Look, if I do, right? Right. Everyone doing the Cyclops and the Cyclops and. Yes. Those are everyone who's doing those is a pattern. Got it. Because they need and it's an animated pattern. They want everybody to associate that too. So if you went to any event, Oh, one moment. I'm not going nowhere. You might hear me. I don't even know if you. Oh, I think you're muted. 100. Oh, you're muted. I can't hear you. I, I can't hear you. Something happened to your audio. Let me unmute you. Come say, can you unmute? Send me the address and I'm talking. Can you hear me? Oh, I can hear you now. Yes. He talked to his sister. I think that's really. Yeah. I have a cowboy party today. I'm back. I was back. Okay. Um, okay. Okay. So, you got that right? Yes. Yes. The closest thing animators got is any sad reference. Right. Right. Whether it be Cyclops or Pegasus or whatever. And people recognize that, right? And the most important thing they recognize is the taco cobra. Yes. Okay. So, if you get to any competition and do that, everybody say that's that's how you right there. It ain't true for everything. I feel, I feel, I feel that what right now what you've shared has cleared up at least in my. Exactly. I would say it has cleared up a lot and I would recommend everyone that's coming to you know, any animation event or so to to watch and to hear what we just shared because I feel like that has cleared, you know, I, we after this conversation, we shouldn't see if someone watched this video. I would say that we shouldn't be seeing someone just waving and being an saying I'm animating or someone doing flexible movements saying I'm animating. Like I feel it was clear here what was talked on, um, yeah, I'm hoping to them to know that honestly, they can be animating. It's just not true form. And like my brother trying to say, people are supposed to be looking for the vintage version to call it animation, right? But you can also do slow motion, remember that's modern. So between these two, you can do a lot. You could do, you could do the wave, which is just a movement or pattern and add glitchy to it, right? Or slow motion to it, and you would still be animated. Okay. Okay. You get what I'm saying? You could do the robot, and the robot is not animation, right? But you could add vibrating to robot and that would be, oh, he's vibrating like that. That's animation. Or you can slow motion the robot. It, it seems Andre, it sounds like it's the, it's the two extremes. Either speeding it up very or slowing it down. Yes. That seems to be. It seems when you be. That's a common thread. Yeah. It, it seems like if you're in the middle, then it's like, no, not. We need. Well, no. You, I don't think that. Well, no. No, I'm not. When you, when you get a Q-tip, when you get a Q-tip, it's only two of the ends. The thing in between is putting together, but the Q-tip is that's only part you hold. The middle, you use your own, right? So you, you, uh, like ticking, it's a base and people still see a different effect than free flow, but they don't see the speed effect, right? Until you speed it up, right? So people can all read Tinky. So a person can get in and tick a whole competition from place to place as their base. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick with wave cover. But in the middle of that, go slow motion and a free flowing slow motion or in the middle vibration. Yeah. And tick, tick, tick, and they would be out of there. Okay. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. Like it didn't even have to be robotic. No. People get into the robot because it was the best way to control your robot. Robot is the how you get your dime stops focused. Got it. You don't have to animate. You don't have to robot to animate. You just have goals and come. It don't have to be even perfect. You don't have. You can be. You can wave. I can do this and you can see some glitchiness. Yes. Right. I can speed that up or I can slow it down. Right. Go deeper. Okay. I didn't have to have no robot in there. Didn't have to be mechanical. So when you say why everybody like robot, it because they wanted the basic foundation and control of their body, right? Right. That's why Robot control your body. They can still stop like control your body. Right. Right. Okay. Okay. Uh, Andre, here's a qu few last questions. Andre, uh, and and K, I want to hear as well. Yeah. Um, what chicken noodle soup, baby? Chicken noodle soup. What, what do you consider, uh, what makes someone a great anime? There's people that do it, but what would you say in your opinion, you're like, they got it. What would you say a great anime? Okay, here's here's my answer, right? Many of the people who could really dance, I mean, they know how to dance, social dance, the lad is, but can then imitate the body control like whether it be mechanical stop, which is why you sort of, uh, you, you mentioned fiction. I think fiction is a great. He's animating that between his dance. He can do the regular dance in the same styles. M. He, he, he don't, he don't come out and do the regular dance like, let me do this. So if I'm doing this, this is regular dancing. This is not animated. This is not nothing but the regular dance, whether it's house or not. But he'll do, and that's why twins look good. They also stop in the middle of whatever they're doing and have a glitch or a stop or a back and forth motion to make it look like they have more control of their body. Think the fact kick. That kid and friends are double double beat up. And this is what Dragon House is doing. This fiction was doing some kid, the great, they got a lot of names on these viral animated dancers who are doing it. They're doing [ __ ] Okay. In between that doing t or kick or split or whatever. So they're great to me. Okay. But when they also move a lot, which people love motion, the person who robots commands attention. So you watch a person moves a lot and go, "Wow, look at all the moves they do." But when you watch the person take their time to slow down, they command your attention waiting to see what could they do. Right. Right. It's like pulls you in. It pulls them in. Yes. You just. That was it. Okay, that's it. So if I get do this, you're like, "Oh, he's got a lot of energy. Oh, that's crazy." Go that robot half. They move a little bit. You go shake a little bit. You go, "What's wrong?" They go, "Oh, God. How did he do that?" Yes. Because they're commanding your attention by not moving a lot, not just how much they flash through. Okay. Uh, Kumi, if you want, what would your review of when you say, "Dang, there like that's a great animator." What would you say? Oh, I don't want to say anything. I don't want to answer this question. What do you want? Question? No. Answer this question, concept. No, I don't want to. I want to hear this. What, what makes you like, "Wow, I like, I, I like, I really, and you know, it's not how everyone else sees this, how you see it." What makes you go, "Wow, that person was really dope at animating." Because, uh, recently I decided what type of animation I'm looking for. So I have already judgment, you know, like, so I'm looking for this type of animation right now. So I cannot really say for what I like. I have to say who I like about it, or I have to talk about it like who really good at this, you know? So that's that's really confusing to me. And I, I want to be careful what I'm saying because I already have a judgment. I like cremation animation, you know, like cremation type animation, right? So I'm going to just keep looking for only for cremation type of animation. But animation is not just only that, right? We have a lot of different ways to show the animation. So I cannot really say, oh, I think this guy is so dope. But so many good people for a lot of different ways, you know, like different ways they showing that animation. So I, I cannot pick. I like J's animations. He like, I also like, I like what's name, his name is Kid, uh, what's that dude's name? Kid, what's his kid, what's his name? Something Kid. No, not Kid Boogie. Kid Boogie. I think Kid Boogie looks good, too. Okay. Oh, because he has a lot of vibration on it. Yeah. So, so there are a lot of people who got good vibrational, glitchy, strobe like animation. I've seen them. Okay. And when I see them, I do not know if it's the lens or the camera because I didn't get to see them in person. Right. Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I, I, I, I, I know who who gets tired of it. You. Oh, yeah. I'm really good. And you made it, Jay. You. I'm really good. Thank you very much. Appreciate that. That's my girl. You. You. But wait a minute. But wait a minute. Let me say something while I'm on that track. From Dragon House, there's Android. And he looked like another new younger version of me. I, I'm just saying I like how he controlled his body. He went in a little click. I like their unreal part. But he did that. He did that the last thing. I like they have great. So I can name a lot of people who are doing what I call at least pieces of true form and I give them way more credit because I know it's harder to do. Okay. It is very hard. It ain't that hard to take. But when you start speeding up a vibrating movie, there's a lot better. So for anybody to do more than a few moments of it, right, then I give them credit for that, right? Okay. Okay. Um, this, this question, it, it doesn't have to be specifically on animation or robot. Can be in general, but if you know, whatever you want to share of what is one of the most your favorite battles you've experienced or you saw or a moment where you saw someone do something crazy? What's a memory you have that you're like, damn, I'll never forget that. Like what they did that day or night? Like what is there a memory that comes up when it comes to seeing someone else or yourself in a battle or Well, that's hard for me because lately I just got a new phone and I'm also just watching a lot of Facebook, TikTok stuff and stuff that I see the people doing it ain't in the grass world only. It's like just incredible stuff like Andre. But before TikTok, before like in your time, what was some of the crazy stuff you see that we probably are never going to see because it was never filmed or anything like that? Is there anything that memory? You just talking about personal memory. Yes. A personal memory of maybe a battle, a competition. Competitions were very important in the street back then. Like confronting somebody to prove that you can do something. So I have these three. There's a guy who was name, they don't name his name a lot now. His name was Scy. Scutty was compet and he battled. The first time I see one person take on like five or six people like bravery like, I'm a challenge you, really stop me. And he looked good when he's confident. He, I value human trip it. Uh, number two, robot days, light bug vibration. Okay. When he got me to make me become an elevator, that's how I became an. His taking the light out mission was was tight. Uh, the same people, but there was a guy from Shalomar called Jeffrey Daniels. He had the cleanest backslide. We call it the moonwalk. Before y'all call it back, and he did it with this group called. First time I've ever seen him gliding on air. Wow. Best version. I ain't seen nobody beat that version. Not even today. I, I came play, I came close for a while, practice, but I still think he just had the smoothest version. Wow. And one more was, uh, Skype. He did the title when he came to the school. First time I ever seen a person put their head back and bend into it and then stand up. It was called a title wave. And it was like, you could, if you was really member like somebody like Flattop or even Midnight or even Daryl Sto, they could do this because they had a new called King Tut, and he could stand still and do the limbo like and then come back up. And that was still his version of the title. Wow. The latest thing though, how many people? Four people. Four people. Well, I'm not even trying to mention Dexter, who was the best robot I've ever seen. A guy from New York, uh, called Storyboard P. Yes. Yep. Storyboard P's, uh, glides. I ain't talking about his, it ain't the most of the style or how he, but

When he glides and his control of glides is bar none, very impressive. Yes. Mysterious and otherwise. Yes. Yep. Those are those are I say four, but I put that in. Yeah. Storyboard P is the most person, and I'm not talking about just some crazy moves, but that's a style of somebody moving. Right. Right. Okay. Okay. Uh, Kum, what, what are a memory you have of a battle or someone you saw that you'll never gonna forget? So many. Oh my goodness. But yeah, I recently, recently, uh, I'm gonna go, I don't know. I can't, I can tell like, but you have to say party cowboy party for sharing. Thank you. I really appreciate your time sharing this. So, we can do this anytime you want. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Okay, Andre. All right, Martin. Yes, Martin. Okay. Yeah, I see him in the in the, that that's really shock, actually, for as a lobot, you know. And then Binandre Cremation made me really surprised. Yeah, because the cremation is is is, I think, in for to me, and I'm I'm the first one I see somebody really doing that fact, imitating that fact that that's first thing I saw in popping, and that's that's the reason who I'm getting. Okay. Yeah. Wow. Wow. What, what, uh, would you I see him in the background. What would you like to see in the community in the future, Kumay? In the in this robot animation community, what would you like to see happen or more of, or where would you like it to go? I think in like, so far for my experience for, uh, this lobot animation community, we see, I think we pretty understand for lobot for sure. I think if we, we clear for that, but I think if we still, uh, on the way to showing this animation style on the stage or make them understand like clearly, like I think if we, we working on it, probably a lot of people right now is working on it, you know what I mean? Because we still unclear for this, so even though we go on the stage, we cannot really showing for, uh, good communication with the crowd, you know? So I'm thinking, hopefully, maybe this year, I don't know, next year, we can show it more clear for a lot of people coming, and they even can't even, we don't even have to explain because robot, we don't have to explain, they already can, oh wow, this robot, the style is robot, but animation is until now, we recently started like open up this animation, uh, the eban like everywhere now, but still a lot of people come and watch, and they're getting confused too. This is freestyle, or this is like right hip-hop, is is a, they're confused about this stuff. So hopefully, like we can more showing better. Yes. Like I think that's what I'm, Yeah. hoping for. I I believe after these interviews and a lot of conversations, I believe that the animation contest, it'll start to look more, uh, like there's going to be, um, it's not going to look like freestyle. I believe it's going to start looking more the vibrations, the slow motion. Um, I think we'll, I think we'll see that more. I believe so. Yeah, I really hope so, too. But but but I think it's still, you know, we we have a really long communication today, but still, I think we have to decide it, what type of animation we're looking for, you know what I mean? Like, because to me, so far, is a lot of people thinking animation is the vintage animation, you know, like, uh, the sim batting, you know, but to me, is that's only one type of animation, too, you know? So I don't know. I think that's we have to decide it, maybe not. And then we're going to keep seeing is is it just I think it's some some little founded little r, you know, like something maybe not, it's going to be like just all look like a freestyling, you know? What, what would you say is the different types of animation? What, in your view? I know, uh, even really, really, you just thinking about for technique wise, animation, okay, so stop timing control, or something like that, right? And then maybe you're doing just a grouping like hip he like this, and you stop, right? And like this can be animation too. But then according to Andre, you need to, yeah, that's what I mean, like, what, but that one is also traditional, like, like the the old film, the sim batting kind of back, right? You know what I mean? So we looking for this kind of old school vintage fact, or we're looking for just technic wise? So like, maybe you focus on technique means anything you do and just stopping or moving bad, that can be animation too. But that's not what we looking for, I believe. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. So that's that, I think that that that's the we have to decide it, you know, like, even the waving we doing this and moving faster like that can be animation too. But that's not what we looking for, right? Like, right. I think in, I don't know, we not really talk about that, but a lot of people like looking for what type of animation is pretty much 90% is cremation type animation. They thinking, oh, that's the animation like that, because that's that's the, but the animation real world meaning is like, we can be, even he said, like, we can be like, just like here, your timing control can be animation too. Yeah. Like with NPC, you know, that's Yeah. Everything can be like, even you had to here to here's animation too. It comes alive. So I mean, that that's why I'm thinking about that too. So, okay, like, I'm thinking just animation is like too big. So I I'm like, I cannot, my image is unclear. M so what type, uh, what kind of technique I like to, uh, showing people, and then what type of, uh, the taste I like about this animation, and I recently find out, oh, it's a cremation, that's what I like about it to dance. So now, is I'm trying to go go to cremation, but I think, yeah, interesting, but not everybody like about cremation fact, and they they wanted to do it, you know what I mean? Everybody have a different taste, you know, to even just stopping, and they wanted to different way to stoping, you like different way to speak control, now everybody like about, oh, just like permation, this bag is really, we like about it. So that's what I'm saying, interesting. Yeah, yeah, it's it's interesting. I know, you know, Paris has France has their, you know, their event blondie, and you have in Japan, like u, I forget, like Tabo, Tabo's friend, that is out there, um, yeah, all these different groups. So the the going this time, huh? In Paris? Did you go in Paris? No, no, no, no. I didn't know. I know. Good thing is that every year go by, we're getting better, right? I think so. That's the good thing. I think so. I think it's getting clearer every year. Hope so. You're gonna get better though, for sure. I believe. Just Just don't give up and keep going, and then we're gonna Right. You're getting more organizing, you know. For sure. I I see animation community has a lot of potential, like there's a lot of things that can, like it it feels like it's something new. I know people been doing it for years, but right now, it seems like it's a big, like the it's going to grow, like like something is coming from this. So, yeah, but Oh, yeah. All right. Well, thank you Kum as well for, you know, guys. Love you guys. Thanks for invite us. Bye Kumay. Yeah. Who was that? It's Colin. [Music] Hey, bro. Yes. Right now. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm super excited. I'm just getting ready for you to mate. Um, but the good thing is every year go by, is is getting more better, you know. Yeah, for sure. That that's a good thing. Yeah. So, but anyway, thank you guys for coming. Thank you guys. Everybody, uh, Kumay, take care. Let me let me know, Kumay, next time you're having a get together, a little hangout. Yeah, we we we have to practice. Whenever you have a time, you're so busy every time you're doing something. You know what? I wanna I want to have a get together for unime. Like, I want to have some day people can hang out. So, I need to figure that out. I think that's dope. That's dope. Yeah, I'll let everyone. But all right, everyone, take care. All right, guys.