Transcription
Welcome back to final expense telesales. My name is Dana Nissan. I have a very special guest on the channel today. He is the VP of simplified life and growth here at Lasting Mark. He's also the co-founder and co-host of the very popular podcast, The Life Insurance Academy. If you don't subscribe, run to their YouTube channel and hit that subscribe button. Welcome, Chris Ball.
Thank you, Dana. I'm I'm so excited to hang out with you on your channel. I mean, this is there's a buzz of activity on here. I'm watching the ticker of subscribers clicking. So, gang, subscribe to this channel. I don't know if you Dana, on our stats, it's like I think it was 60% of viewers haven't subscribed. They're the casual viewers who maybe take a nugget here and there. Why? Why do that? Hit the subscribe button. Dana's dropping gold here. Let's get her to 30,000. Let's go. Let's do it.
Um, well, you know, my whole goal, as always, I say on almost every single intro, is to help agents have stronger, more sophisticated sales conversations. Um, but today we we wanted to move away from the tactical aspects of like what to say and when to say it and how to say it and really take some time today and focus on who an agent needs to become, I guess, as a person in order to really make this industry work for them and then possibly pivot after we discuss that part. And and I and I really think this applies to seasoned agents as well. Who do these seasoned agents need to become in order to take their business to the next level? Um, and so I'm really excited to tackle some of that today because we don't talk about this stuff often enough.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Dana. I appreciate appreciate the opportunity and I'm sitting here um as a result of a uh a bluecollar family. Um I grew up in Serial City, Battle Creek, Michigan. What up? Famous for cereal. That's what it's famous for. And the biggest hopes you had was to become a um an employee of Kelloggs. No joke. Like that was the big dream to work at Kelloggs. And yeah, so um I I became a youth pastor and I I worked in a church. I was a youth pastor for 16 16 years. My perspective even in this space and what I do is um really about Oh, I I'll get to that in a moment. Let me I'm getting kind of ahead of myself, but that that bluecollar thinking was deeply ingrained in me. Um had a bit of an entrepreneurial spirit. Uh so not by choice in some cases because when I became a youth pastor, I was making that money. I mean, it was ridiculous. I was making $30,000 a year. Like blow your hair back Caribbean. Did you forget a couple zeros there? Yes. I was making $30,000 a year. Um, and you know, working at a at a a great church. Matter of fact, I tell you, this is so cool. Like little old ladies when we had our our first son, they they had snuck like a $100 check into our diaper bag for us when we had our our first kid. That's what kind of church it was, you know. And but to to make ends meet, I would work another job. And I was either doing roofing, carpet cleaning, or I worked at a golf course so I could get free golf. Those were those were the three things that I was doing. So I I had a desire or desire for more just out of necessity in some cases, but I liked the idea. I like the idea of maybe there's more out there, you know, when you're looking through the window of of life. And um it wasn't until I moved to Louisville, I got a a position at a large church here where I actually met Roger. I I recruited Roger into our youth ministry as uh Roger Short who is who's been on this channel before. I recruited him into the youth ministry to be a leader in our seventh grade room. I oversaw groups at that at that point. But it wasn't until I started working with a different group of people who thought differently. Um, they were running businesses, you know. Um, and and it's not a knock on anybody. Was just how people thought about being bluecollar mental go to work, you know, uh put the work away, uh you're working for somebody else. And then I had CEOs in my youth ministry and they and they led at a different capacity in my youth ministry than what I was even used to, which was really cool. And so that was a it was a massive shift in my thinking. It was a paradigm. It was a complete paradigm shift for me when I started to to work with these leaders and depend on them. And uh 20 uh 2010 housing crisis happened, church had to make some realignment. I moved into college ministry and I actually worked myself out of a position. I created small groups for the college ministry and that got handed off to the small groups ministry. Didn't have a job. Had to find something else to do. And this whole world of building a business and um having an opportunity to to do something was was it was was new to me. Uh Roger sat down with me and I said he spun a a top in my head, you know, like in that movie Inception, he spun a top in my head about betting on myself. And uh that was exciting that it it was it was resuscitating something in me that I didn't know was in there. And the reason I'm sharing all of that with you is because I'm hoping between our two podcasts, there are bluecollar people who are hard workers. I mean, I was working hard. I was I had dirt under my fingernails when I was leading Bible studies with kids. Like hard workers who can finally get paid what they're worth. That there are there are nurses who are breaking their backs who can own a business and they aren't aware of that, you know. So, that's that's why I really I'm I'm a big uh proponent believer in um showing people what's possible. And now let me get back to the the the youth pastor mentality is I'm very interested in movements and creating movements for people and not just jobs. And that that's there's a different shift in your thinking when you can shift from from a bluecollar working position to where you're owning a business. Um, I don't know if you've experienced this. I've had agents who have come from a bluecollar working position where they were working 50 or 60 hours a week and I would have conversations with them and say, "Hey, if you can if you can do that, if you can put that same kind of work effort effort into this, your life's going to be completely transformed." But I found that sometimes that's a challenge for people because they are so used to somebody telling them what to do, right? That they aren't used to being business owners. So that's that's if we can spark that for somebody, if we can change their thinking and saying maybe it is possible if I have good leadership from somebody, but if I can take ownership of my life and think differently, then you can do great things.
Yes, I have seen that many times. People saying how how hard and how much they work right now, but then when they shift into this role of life insurance, which I think for a lot of people, it's really just kind of looked at as as another job, right? They have this title of 1099 attached to it. It takes a long time to to move from that tell me where to go, where to be like the questions that I get even in group interviews like what are the hours and right like um uh even after I explain how you know like for us we help agents you know generate their own leads even after explaining that they still say well how many leads do I buy and it's what what have you seen is like that moment moment where people finally get that aha moment like I don't need to be told what to do. I just need to be given the road map and then execute on it.
The the I think um for for us what we're looking for is some level of self-identification. Yeah. Where people will raise their hand and say next step. I'm looking for simple things. Are they available, faithful, teachable, and responsive when they come into this? Can they do exactly what we say? And sometimes those are tough questions or tough questions to answer like what are the hours? Whatever it takes. I don't I don't know what to say. That's actually how I'm going to answer that question. Instead of saying there aren't, you set your own hours. I I am going to start saying whatever it takes. Whatever it takes. Right. And and so one one big thing that's really big for me is is expectations. Yeah. Expectations. What is it you what are your expectations and what can I expect from you in this conversation? So if you're coming to this and you say to me, I mean, one of the questions I I do ask that I like is if you could get an annual salary today, um what do you think you'd be worth? Hm. What do what answers do you typically get? I get 30,000. I get 60,000. Most somewhere around there. I get a 100,000. I get a million. Okay. But I want to know what they believe about themselves first. The limit does not exist. What's that? The limit does not exist. Oh, I know what your answer is. Unlimited. Unlimited. Right. Take the cap off. And I can But here's the deal. I want to be clear on this. We we can work with a a limited if somebody has a cap, it's okay. I just need to know where it is and what they're hoping for. That's what I really want to know. So, what is it you want? What are you trying to accomplish? What are you willing? This is going to be the cost for it. And are you willing to do the work? Those are the things I need to know from that person. So when I say um whatever it takes, if you tell me um 100,000, how many hours is that going to take in a week? I I don't know your capacity to learn. Mhm. I don't I wish I I wish I could tell you on average on average you may be working for for the first quarter from 9:00 a.m. to 8:30 at night on the average Monday through Friday. It may take you 100 leads. It may take you 150 leads, but we don't know until we start to get data points on on your your activity. So, can you commit to the activity? Can you do the work? Are you willing to pay the price? That's those are important questions. Now, I think that you guys do a good job of setting expectations. I think I do a decent job of setting the right expectations. Um, but I think that there's a lot greater noise in the industry that far overpower, you know, my channel, your podcast. Um, and so there's a lot of people that get into life insurance with the wrong expectations. And I've noticed that by the time somebody finds me, they've already spent six months. They've already invested thousands of dollars. Now at the point where they have to pay their bills tomorrow and then we have this like sense of panic. Yeah. Right. That sets in. Often times I feel like I'm reaching people after they've tried, you know, with the with the wrong place. Um, do you see that?
Yes. I I would say that and and Roger says it kind of this way that they've tied a rope around their waist. They've handed you the rope and then they jumped off a bridge like rescue me, rescue me, you know, and it's almost too late at that. Their mindset is in is in scarcity mode and despiny object that's going to fix and solve all of their problems. Um, but the reality is is we're starting back at square one as if it was six months ago and lost that excitement and enthusiasm for the business and you got to put in like another six months, right? Um, and a lot of people don't have that kind of time. So, I like what do you think needs to happen in the industry for more people to get the right message?
Well, here's here's the challenge with that. First, the first thing is I'm very comfortable having that conversation. Yeah. Very comfortable saying, um, you're in a tough spot and this is going to be a major uphill challenge from this point on. Are you I need if this is going to work, you have to do exactly what I say. And if you can't, I need to know I need to know now if that's going to be true or not. Mhm. Um the shift I think part of the expectation issue is what's being sold out there. Um like it's quick money. It's fast. Um, you know, it's it's uh shiny. It is it's a it's a sale of a shiny object. And the reality is this is simple work. This is simple. It is. But it's hard. It's not easy. Yeah. It's not easy. It's not easy. But you know what? What I what and what I want to see from people is are you looking if you're look between you and I. Okay. Nobody else is listening here. Okay. Yes. Well, not yet anyways. Not yet. No. Is I don't know if I'm super interested in the people who are super attracted to the the shiny object.
Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate there. Okay. Okay. Because if you don't know what you don't know, right? And maybe you don't have that prior sales or business experience to be able to sniff out maybe the red flags. Um, and you are just relying on the information that you're given. I guess the next question would be what what should people be worried about when they get into it? and they talk to one company and the one company says this is how it is. Why shouldn't they believe them?
Yeah, that's fair. I I I see that. I'm willing to have the conversation. That's that's what I I'm and maybe that's a better way to say it. I'm willing to have a conversation with them. Yeah. They're looking for the quick fix. And I think that that's what I love about what you communicate on your channel. We communicate it on our channel. We have a principled sales process um that we are committed to. You have a uh same thing principled sales process that you're committed to to help people learn and grow through through a process. And I'm I think I'm looking for more for people who are invested in um discovering more for who they can become as as um a better version of themselves to have what they want. That's a really interesting conversation to me. Okay. Um you you understand what I'm saying? Like Yeah. So less about you're less concerned about do you have $4,000 right now to invest in your business and more or equally weighted concern or maybe I'm wrong about I want to I want to be this version of myself that I have not yet discovered and you can work with that person because they're not looking for those instant results but they may not have quite enough money to invest fully into the business. Am I on the right track?
Yeah. Yeah. So let's look at it this way. Okay. And this is this is a funny thing to me. I feel like most of the time in our conversations, we're teaching people how to be human beings on the sales side. On the sales side, it's a human to human interaction and we're teaching them how to talk like a person. And I'm like, how did we get here? How did we how did all this happen in this world? This Yes, I would agree with you. It's it's distraction. It's uh sometimes people are driven. They're so driven they don't realize they've lost the human touch, right? Um distractions like you said the phone. Uh sometimes people are stuck in a moment in their past, whatever it is. But this is the interesting thing to me is regardless if it's a sale or someone who's coming into the business, there has to be a stakes conversation. Mhm. There has to be of what what they you know what they could lose or what could they they could gain. And I am very interested in that conversation for them. Like if it starts off with money, shiny object, I'm cool with that. But I need to know why it matters. Tell me more about that. Why is that so important to you? Like money. Okay, money. How much is it? What would that get you? What would your life look like if you had that? Like those are the conversations I'm having with people when when they're coming into this because I want to know what's at stake for them and if they're if they mean it or not. And sometimes if it's too generic and they're they're saying, you know, $150,000 for the first time in my life, you know, I I want to know. Yeah. If I just leave it if I just leave it there, it may not mean anything to them. It may not mean anything to them. It's just a number that they thought they should say. Yeah. That they should come up with. It's just a number. Um, I think I don't know if you heard me share this story. I was writing with an agent one time whose goal in the business was to he wasn't on my team. I just I rode with him one day. His goal was to bring his wife home. He'd been saying it for five years. To bring wife home from work so she didn't have to work anymore. From work. Okay. And he'd been saying it for five years, okay? And I've heard it multiple times and we were riding along and we were trying to find this house and we were just having a discussion and I I was in Louisiana and I'm just like looking at all the cool trees. I'm looking out the window having this conversation and I said, "Hey, you've been talking about your goals and stuff and if you've been saying you want to bring your wife home for 5 years. If that's not important to you, just say so. Like you you can change your goal if that's not important." And I just was still looking out the window and I heard, you know, and he was it hit him. It hit him hard and he was getting emotional about it, but I don't think anybody had ever talked to him if he meant it or not. Like five years, nothing changes. I don't know if you mean it, right? Or it's just something that makes you feel good about saying right thought of taking those steps of what like you said who do you have to become as a person that does the thing that's necessary so that you can help your wife stay home what does that person need to do right bring them that way and why do you think more people in the industry aren't having these types of conversations um to be honest I don't think they know they're supposed to. Um, and it's this is what I this is what I call it, Dana. I call it the work before the work. This is this is the work. Like this is the the deep work that we're supposed to do. Um, when I want if I have an agent coming in, um, I want to at least give them the opportunity. Just like in our sales process, like we talk about the pain point, I say it's covered up by life, right? It's like the sands of life blew over this thing, whatever that pain point is, and I'm dusting it off, right? And then I'm pointing at it. I'm pointing, what do you think about that? Like you can do something about it because it's your responsibility to solve it, not my responsibility. I'm a guide who can take you there, show it to you, point to it, ghost of Christmas, future to it. You know, I can do all of that, but it's you. It's you. You have to change. Something has to change for you to have that to have a different life, to have an insurance policy, to protect your family, whatever it is, you have to change. And you know, I'm hoping just because of our organization, okay, and my background when I said movement, I'm hoping it causes people to look and say, "Hey, maybe I am so driven like I have such big goals that I just run over people and I don't listen well." Like I'm hoping those conversations can emerge or somebody can say I'm so stuck in the past of what somebody did to me that it's affecting my growth and I can't have what I want if I'm going to keep holding on to that. Like to me that's a that's that's a very um in like I could give my life to that. I can give my life to that as an as a leader of an organization.
Do you think the same type of conversation can be had with or should be had with an 18 to 23 year old who's just starting to figure out what the stakes are as compared to maybe someone in their 30s in their 30s maybe early 40s. I guess I'll stop there. I have follow-up questions from that. But that's an interesting question because I feel like a lot of these conversations attract people that have been down the path, right? Times and they're like, "Someone's finally talking about the stuff that I want to pour into." But what about I'm thinking back when I got my first sales job. I was 23 and I know people in this industry more and more 18 to 23 year olds are getting into it. Um, and the that attraction model is the cars and the money, the stuff and the things, which I can't fault them for. No, no, not at all. But how does that conversation shift when the stakes are, I just am getting my first sales job and I want to make a lot of money.
Yeah, I still think there's a stakes conversation. Why? Why is that important to you? Why is that important to you? What do you want to have? Tell me more about it. I don't know if this is this I don't I don't know if we have to get to meaning on the first conversation. Yeah, that that may happen over time, especially when you're talking to 18 to 23 year olds. I wouldn't have understood it at the time, you know, like I want to have um I want to have excitement, energy, I want to have um toys. Like toys make me feel good. Chris, if you ask me why is it important to me to to have a Lamborghini because I I love the noise. I was just in Nashville with my son and we walked by I'm so bad at this. Okay, I can't even tell you. It was a It was a McLaren with lots of numbers. Okay, I don't even know what it was. We were walking by it and Tyler, he was like, "Dad, I think they're getting ready to drive away. Can we stay? I want to hear it." Like, I want to hear it take off. He's so excited about that thing, you know. Um, and I I I can say I can have these conversations um with my son because I do have meaningful conversations with him because he's my son, right? I can value the want and the desire for something that that is fun. Um, and understand that meaning will come along the way because you and I know this. Fun gets boring. Well, fun is also temporary. Yeah. Yeah. Correct. And you're always kind of chasing that next Yeah. of that fun where like the real sustainable meaning in this business is is being able to whether you're just learning and mastering a skill and being really really good at the skill and finding meaning and helping families or whether it's the transfer of presenting what we do here to other people and and helping them become stepping into an even bigger role as a leader and and watching that flourish. But, um, yeah, I definitely don't think I I think it there's also way too much focus on the sale. Um, it almost makes it feel like poor Mildred is is transactional, like she's transaction and not human. Yeah. Um, and that you know that's one of the things that I personally love so much about being a part of of Lasting Mark and and this organization is because there are conversations surrounding like the meaning the deeper meaning of what we do and not just what's your AP goal today, right? And um uh and that by itself, those conversations by itself give this career a deeper meaning beyond, you know, the numbers.
I do want to address something that and the question you had is a great question and it's not it's not just 25 to 30 year olds. I mean there's 40 year olds who are still chasing stuff, you know, and beyond. Yeah. My part of our mission statement and this is this this keeps me grounded in reality, okay, is to meet people where they are and help them get where they want to go. Cast vision along the way. So that we can meet somebody in that space. Now, can we cast a vision where they see something bigger than themselves? That's I think we can. I think most people want that. They just don't know. You said we don't know what we don't know. Mhm. They just don't know. And maybe it's for them and maybe it's not. That's fine. We'll help them get what they want. But there will be people who self-identify from 18 to 55, 80 years old, whatever. They're going to self-identify and say, "I want to help other people. What does that look like?" Okay, you're going to help Mildred. You're going to help other people become profitable like you've been profitable. And this is what I've learned is as you grow in scale, you have to learn to become a better version of you. If if it's going to grow like it ultimately has to go to a place where you are developer, you are a developer of people and then you're a duplicator of people and that that's a whole new a whole new conversation. And the guy who's chasing the sound of the car isn't isn't quite there. I mean yes you can still always appreciate that that will always be a part of your life but what is the driving you know I say vision is what pulls us forward like it's like lifting a sail on a boat vision is what moves the boat forward and sometimes that wind dies when it's something temporary or something that passes or a fat or something else but when you capture meaning in that sail that's that's powerful.
Now, um, you started part-time in this business, right? Which I don't know if you ever heard me talk about my personal thought process behind part-time uh, agents. It's I think the odds are pretty stacked against you when you start part-time. You're an exception to the rule. So, what would you say led or contributed to your success starting out parttime?
Um, I would say let me and and let me let me clarify and everybody's got everybody's got reasons, right? I had when I moved to to Louisville, we had gone through the housing crisis trying to sell a house in Michigan that I told you how much I paid. Laughable amount, right? We put like $30,000 down on this house. Like it was your annual salary. Huh? Was that your annual salary? Yeah. Yeah. On this house in Battle Creek when we moved and we'd only been there for a year and a half. Housing crash like this. Wow. So Lisa and I, we're trying to figure this out. We have a a three-year-old son. Lisa has another baby. I guess we both did. We had another child. You know, Tyler, I was just going to say, was there another marriage here? Tyler shows up and, you know, we're still holding we're still holding on to this thing. Anyway, we had to end up doing a short sale. We got into a house just before it happened. So, um, and then, you know, lo and behold, job change, all this stuff happens. I'm not in I thought I was going to do this the rest of my life. And then, uh, God had other plans. Yeah. So when we're talking about this and the the importance having a supportive sp supportive spouse man there's that is that is wind. I mean that is that's a motor on the back of your boat. You know that's when your when your spouse your wife or your husband um significant other believes in you enough to bet on you that's a big deal. And so for me, I was sensitive to the what we came out of and where we were going. Um, and I had structured my work schedule where I could work two and a half days out in the field. Um, uh, I will say the biggest difference in all of this was, um, the mentorship of Roger Short. That was a huge factor in it for me. And Roger's belief in me was greater than my belief in myself. Um, and he would challenge me on a regular basis. I mean, he would show me the numbers and say, "Chris, you're losing money. You're losing money by doing that." But it wasn't about the money. It was about, and this is probably, I'm going to assume this is what you're talking about. What holds people back from part-time is it's it's the divided focus and it's the belief. It's the belief in this. There's there's really three things I look for. Um, do people need it? Does it work? And can I do it? Can I do it? I saw that people needed it. I saw that it worked, but there was stuff that I had to work through to get to can I do it? And I think that's where a lot of people are even listening to this podcast when I'm talking about the blue collar the blue collar people. There are would you you'd agree there are more than enough people to talk to to be incredibly profitable regardless of where you are with I mean unequivocally. Is that is that if I even said that word correctly? Yes, you did. If you if you invest in yourself enough, you could be flooded with people to talk to, like overwhelmed to the point where you couldn't even reach them. That's how big the opportunity is, right? But most people live in this scarcity mindset partly because they do not have the belief, right? That they when they get someone on the phone that they can do it. And that fear, right, that paralyzing fear is what holds people back, I think, from
I agree in I think um if if you're going to come into this part-time, you better have an exit strategy. You better like you have to have a date on it with your upline communicating this is it. This is when we're cutting the cord and expectations are everything. Your significant other spouse needs to be on board with that. Yeah, that's that's important. So, I think there's something to be said with the whole significant other thing. I've been super super fortunate to where my the majority of my sales career from 2004 to 2020 with a little hiatus to have some babies um has all been a W2. I've always been an employee, but my husband has always been an entrepreneur. He's never had a job. And so coming into this stage in my life, I was always the person that says, "I never want to be an entrepreneur." Really? Wow. That surprises me. I had no idea. I I love to just be the top producer, go in, do my thing, clock out, and not have to take my work home with me. I actually prided myself on that. Wow. That that that while all these suckers had to work, you know, over the weekends and all hours of the day, I could go to happy hour and still make a great multiple six-figure income. And so, the shift for me was really daunting, go from W2 to 1099. And in fact, if it wasn't for the encouragement and support of my husband, who when I wanted to spend money, he was like, "That's it. That's all you're going to spend on that. Like I think there's really something powerful really powerful to be said by the amount of support. I don't even think I realized that I had. Yeah. When other people are receiving not only the opposite but discouragement. Why are you wasting your time doing this? This is a scam. You have to spend your money. Right. I bet that happens a lot more than than not. And um I think I'm one of the few that probably had the complete opposite experience.
I would say it starts with and and I I'm with you like uh but Lisa was an entrepreneur. She's been a teacher, but she she never she would ask questions leaning forward like with a leaning forward position like she trusted in me. She bet on me. She heard me. She heard me say it was important to bet on myself. She's like, "Okay, I can bet on you, too." You know, that was really cool. I can dig that. That's nice. I also believe if it wasn't going to be, you know, um I think it's important that there is a voice in your life of somebody who says, "I see this for you. I, you know, happened to be Roger on the other end. It was shel for you on the on the other side and in your relationship and what he saw like he'd been there before. He knew and he's looking at those prices like that's all you're spending what you know and for a lot of people that person does end up becoming someone in the business their direct right unlike me who can now call that out in other people that they've never had that before from their family from a significant other from former upline and it's because of that that they are finally finding that belief in themselves
How was How does that make you feel?
It's incredible. I tell you, it's humbling though, right? It's it's humbling and and incredible at the same time where it it almost feels not to go too deep, but it feels very heavy, right? That that responsibility not just of running a business but of having that responsibility of I almost feel like there's what I do and what I say or what I don't do or what I don't say has a direct impact on how they will view themselves and that's I can get in my head about that sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. You can't overthink that. But but you're you are right on that. I I feel the weight of the of of the opportunity. Um, and I appreciate it. I I see it as a um as a um mantle of um honor. That's what I see it of being able to speak into other people's lives. And here's here's the other thing that's interesting, Dana. I want people to know when they come in here, they are going to struggle. There will be seasons of struggle and they will find the best version of themselves on the other side of that struggle. And you are more than capable. You personally are more than capable of jumping in and rescuing them and getting on every call and closing every sale, but that's not going to allow them to become the best version of themselves, right? You know, and we can talk through the struggle. We can talk about, hey, let's navigate some of these pieces and then we can win. But you there's no way around it. That's that's why I love this business so much. It reveals in most cases it reveals where you need to grow the most. It's it's it's very exciting to me when I see it happening. When I see somebody come up against themselves, I'm like, "That's it. That's that moment. Okay, that's what we were looking for, right? No, but now we can get somewhere." Yeah. It I I love I just I love this whole conversation. I really hope people watch the whole thing. Um, taking the conversation beyond the buy more leads, you know, close sale. True. Does not reveal the type of person that you have to become in order to make the conversation about just buy because buying more leads often is the answer, right? It is often buying more leads and doing the work. Like those are the two giant things that that are important as far as levers to me are those are the things you can control. You can control the hours you put into this. You can control the opportunities that you have. So call more, dial more. But who are you as you go? Like where do you need to grow to become a better version of you to become more profitable to have a bigger impact? Like that's that's the stuff that excites me. So, if this conversation and everything about it excites you and you want to have more of it, um, Life Insurance Academy podcast online, Lasting Mark, um, and of course, Empower Life Group, we're looking for people that want to have these types of conversations, that don't want to only just grow in their sales ability, which is extremely important, and have a roadmap to do so, but also are ready to take that look in the mirror and grow as a person. So Chris, thank you so much for being here today. I appreciate you infinitely and I'm so excited for what's to come.
Thank you, Dana. Thanks for having me. And hey, if you if you want to reach out, I I would encourage, okay, I would encourage you and Dana, I don't know if you're going to like this or not, but if if you are hearing this and you feel something stirring, reach out to Dana. Like if you are in that bluecollar space and you're working so many hours and you're not spending time with your family, I'm not promising you'll get that tomorrow. But if you feel that, reach out to Dana because she can help you. And even if it's just a conversation on the front side of this, if this is for me or not, I don't know if she'll have time to talk to you, but it'll be a start of something. It'll be start of something. So, thank you Dana. If you have questions for me at Chris Topball on Instagram, that's where I'm at. But you can always go meet your partners, right? And all of that information is in the description below in every single one of my videos. And we'll see you next time.