Transcription
So, a year and a half ago, you were on
this podcast. You were making a million
dollars per month at 17 years old. Now,
a year and a half later, where are you
at?
>> As an 18-year-old, I sold my company,
Cali, to My Fitness Pal.
>> What was your revenue when you guys
sold?
>> We had just finished 2025, having done
$30 million in that year.
>> $30 million a year. So, how much did you
guys sell for?
>> I can't reveal that.
>> Okay. Okay. But people can do the math.
Uh, if you're in the software world, $30
million ARR.
>> That That's what we did in 2025. That
was the revenue for the year. You you
guys probably touched close to 50
recently. Yeah.
>> In January we did 5.7 million in
revenue.
>> So the run rate was over 50. Wow.
>> Yeah. The ARR currently is about 50
million.
>> People can probably do the math on what
the multiple might be there for the
company. But didn't So My Fitness Pal
was probably your biggest competitor.
>> Yeah.
>> And they decided to acquire Did they
reach out to you guys or why did you
guys decide to sell?
>> It was a little bit of a back and forth
actually. We were talking to them for a
while just because we're so close in the
space and we built up the relationship
over time and then decided it just made
sense to that combining the companies
and resources would help us make the
biggest impact because we are really
mission driven as a company. We want to
help the greatest number of people as
possible and we thought that that was
the best way to do so on both sides. It
made sense.
>> Okay. So you guys are like joining
forces. Are you still going to work
together on like are you still going to
be working on Cali or have you decided
to leave? What's your plan?
>> So Cali and my fitness pal are going to
remain separate apps
>> and I am currently helping the company.
I want this to be a really smooth
transition. I'm still working at Cali
and I want to make sure that it's going
to endure and the brand is going to
really last very long
>> even past me being there. But I
definitely am always, you know, I'm
always coming up with tons of new ideas.
So I I am definitely gonna start
something new in in time.
>> So you have a transition period
basically.
>> Yeah.
>> Can you talk about was it a cash deal,
stock deal, anything like that or no?
>> Yeah, I don't think we could reveal I
don't think I could reveal.
>> Okay. Okay, it's fair.
>> I will say they bought 100% of the
company.
>> Okay. So they bought 100% of the
company.
>> They own it now.
>> Okay. Great. So it's not like a
partnership joint venture. They own
100%.
>> They own Cali.
>> Okay. Wow. That is so cool, dude. Are
you gonna stay in school?
>> I'm definitely gonna drop out, honestly.
Like, not even because of the
acquisition. Yeah, I think I was going
to drop out after the first year anyway,
>> but yeah, I'm definitely feeling it.
Like, I want to I really want to just
swing big in the world. And I think
college is limiting me a little bit.
>> I mean, you were making a million
dollars per month, then you decided to
still go to college.
>> I mean, when I went to college, it was
we were making $3 million a month at
that point.
>> That's crazy. Why did you go to college
in the first place?
>> Dude, honestly, just for the social
life. Like that was really the main
thing. And I think it's like it was
good. I don't regret it at all because
it was either go to college, make
friends, hang out with them, have a cool
social life, or I didn't really know
what I would do. I would either still
live with my parents or maybe move to a
big city by myself, not know that many
people, maybe a couple entrepreneurs
there, but not really have a social
circle outside of that. What I've done
now, if I leave school, I'm going to
still have a good group of friends to
hang out with and other entrepreneurs
that I've met in Miami over the time.
So, I'll have a good group. So, you feel
like you did get like a social circle
out of college? Like that was definitely
a benefit?
>> Yeah, definitely a few like honestly not
like a big one like not a full friend
group, but there are a few key people
that I really enjoy spending time with
and I'm going to continue to.
>> It's a I mean it's a really crucial time
like most people are open-minded. I
think when you get past 25 closer to 30
people are much more like they're less
relationship based and they're more like
who they've been with for a long time.
So, you're building a tribe really early
and that's when people are really
openminded. So, I do think that makes a
lot of sense to go to college for that
reason. Yeah. And you met a few smart
people that you could probably do
business with for the rest of your life.
>> I definitely met some smart people.
Honestly,
>> I don't know. I haven't really thought
about it from the business perspective,
but I guess there are like a couple that
I could see in the future once they're
like out of college. But right now, no
one's too entrepreneurial, I would say.
>> Okay. So, everyone's just more just like
friends for fun. Yeah. Okay.
>> But like good friends. Like I know long
term like they're all going to do great
things.
>> I think that was the right move. You got
in, had fun, met your people, but now on
to bigger and better things, I suppose.
>> Okay. So, I am very curious because you
guys were only doing maybe like right at
a million a month when we were first
talking.
>> Yeah.
>> Now you're doing you were doing way over
$3 million a month a year later. Yeah.
>> I would love to know what the difference
was between what got you to a million
dollar a month and then what you've done
in that time to grow past that cuz I
know it was all about UGC. That was like
all you guys were doing.
>> Um, and that was very very popular, but
I know you guys have expanded into a few
other distribution channels. So, what
were you how were you able to grow Cali?
two or three million dollars per month.
>> That's a great question. So, initially
when we spoke, yeah, it was all
influencers that were just posting and
that was driving all of the growth. That
got us pretty consistently to like 2
million a month, I would say.
>> And then by that point,
all of the influencers in the fitness
space, all the big ones at least, we
pretty much worked with. And a lot of
these fitness influencers share the same
audiences. So, it was a smaller bang for
the buck working with more fitness
influencers. So, we decided to broaden
the horizon a little bit. We started
working with influencers that weren't
necessarily fitness related and that
worked pretty well. But then more than
that, actually the channel that was a
huge unlock for us was really just
running performance ads, performance
marketing, Tik Tok ads, Instagram ads,
Facebook ads.
>> That's just unlocked a whole new channel
of growth that has taken us to in
January we did $5.7 million of revenue.
paid ads is so important to like track
your conversion rate, train your pixel,
make sure like all these different
people are clicking different ads and
converting. Was there anything you did
for attribution to like I know it's
hard, but did you figure anything out?
Yeah, so there's one thing actually that
it's a little bit of sauce for the
viewers here. Not many people know about
this, but you can actually create custom
product pages for apps on the app store.
And for each custom product page, you're
able to see the amount of revenue that
that page by itself generated. Within
Facebook, they actually let you upload
custom product pages as the link that
the ad takes the user to.
>> So, you're able to see directly how much
revenue that each ad that's connected to
the custom product page made based on
the people that went directly from the
ad like click the link to go download.
And so that allows you to have like
clear data, no [ __ ] You know that
you at least made that amount. Often
times you have to increase it by about
30%. Because many people will see the
ad, won't click download, but they'll go
out of Instagram, go to the app store,
and type in your app name by themselves.
So you have to account for that. But
that's how to know like, okay, you're
making at least this amount and have
very clear data. And that will work
early on very well. But when you have a
lot of ads then you can't like it's hard
to manage so many custom product pages.
>> Are you trying to test copy on those
product pages or it's literally just
conversion for like ad to landing page
ad to landing page?
>> Well, this is mostly for knowing like
okay let's say you've run influencers
for let's say you started with
influencer marketing and so now you're
running paid ads.
>> If you if you run paid ads by itself
then you know like okay this is my only
channel so any revenue is from that. You
know, if your revenue is more than
whatever you spent on paid ads that day,
then your paid ads were profitable.
Let's say you're running influencers and
paid ads, and your influencers is at a
pretty big scale, you can't attribute
all your revenue to um one or the other.
So, that's when it's tricky like, okay,
how much of the revenue today was from
influencer spend versus paid ad spend?
And that's where if you put all your
paid ads under a custom product page,
you could see like, okay, this amount
was
>> Gotcha. So you're splitting like if
people search Cali organically, they're
going to hit the main page. Yeah. But
then you're making a subpage that you're
going to link directly for all paid
traffic. Yes. So you can see the direct
link conversions. Correct. And separate
that.
>> Wow. I did not know that.
>> Yeah. That's really helpful.
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you were just doing influencers in the
fitness space for the first million
dollars, maybe $2 million, but you
probably hit a ceiling pretty quickly.
And then you said you broadened out your
influencer pool. What was it like doing
an influencer deal with Mr. Beast?
>> Oh, that was great. That was really fun.
flow to Greenville, North Carolina to
meet him and shoot it with him. I was
even in the video which was sick
>> and it was good. It was like cool seeing
behind the scenes.
>> How much did that cost?
>> That was half a million dollars.
>> So, you paid half a million dollars to
sponsor Mr. Beast video.
>> Yeah. But the craziest thing is we we
could have gotten it for completely free
if we wanted to.
>> How?
>> They never invoiced us.
>> Oh, really?
>> Never. And like a few months later after
I realized like wait they haven't asked
us to pay I like reached out to Jimmy to
tell them like hey your team forgot to
send the invoice and so we got it all
settled but yeah like if we wanted to we
could have just never paired
>> that that was a really cool one cuz you
actually got to go down there in person
and beat in the ad.
>> Yeah.
>> What was the thought process behind
that? Well, honestly, they just like
apparently always invite the brands that
sponsor them to like go see the shoot.
And then when I was there, someone just
suggested, "Oh, should we do a take with
Zach in it?"
>> And so I was like, "Hell yeah, I'm down.
That's awesome." I honestly did not
expect them to use it, but they did,
which was sick.
>> I mean, I think it's a pretty
interesting story. You're like 18 years
old and you own the app that's promoting
a video. Like that just made it really
engaging.
>> Yeah.
>> How did you guys Because that video was
a fitness video.
>> Like that did that just line up well?
Did they approach you? Did you come up
with that concept together? How did that
come out?
>> So, they initially did on the main
channel, it was this guy. He was maybe
200 something pounds. His name was M.
And he couldn't leave the gym until he
lost a certain number of pounds.
>> Mhm.
>> Maybe 100 pounds.
>> And then at the end of the challenge,
she would win some prize pool, some
money. That was one of their most viral
videos on their main channel. And so,
they were going to make a behind the
scenes. And we got word from one of my
friends who actually is on the beast
team that they were making that and he
made the connection. He suggested the
idea. Shout out Nesh. Very cool guy. He
made that happen.
>> Okay. So, he had the awareness that they
were working on this concept and then
you had a relationship with him so he
just reached out to you.
>> Yeah.
>> Very good friend right there.
>> Yeah.
>> Did it convert well?
>> I'd say the ad was
slightly unprofitable just off of
conversions from the ad. Mhm.
>> However, afterwards, it gave us so much
brand authority and we were able to say
like, "Yeah, we worked with Mr. Beast. A
ton of people saw it and so it helped us
sign many new deals going forward, which
overall like probably made it a
profitable deal." So, front end it
didn't convert at a profitable like
rorowaz, but back end you had a lot of
social credit, built authority, and more
brands were willing to work with you or
other creators were more comfortable
working with you in the future, right?
>> You probably get better deals.
>> Yeah.
>> Interesting. Did were you able to track
attribution at all or was it just very
difficult with those types of things.
>> We had like a few ways to model it out.
We looked at the clicks in the
description and then we like applied a
multiple to that like okay maybe one out
of 10 people are actually clicking the
link in the description. Promo codes
maybe like one out of eight people use
promo codes. Just looked at the spike of
like okay the day it was posted how many
views did it get? What was the spike in
revenue versus an average day? So like a
lot of different ways to look at it. And
then we kind of like if all of those
sources pointed to a similar number,
we're like, "Okay, that's probably the
number."
>> I remember last time we were talking
about attribution being a problem. Did
you ever find a better way to fix it?
>> It's honestly the hardest thing,
>> especially like even running performance
ads, that's supposed to be better
attribution, but because of Apple's
privacy rules, that's super hard as
well.
>> And so, you really just need people on
the team that are really gritty and able
to like really separate the noise like,
okay, this is what a normal day is like.
Looking at the spikes is a big thing.
Doing incrementality tests, which is
kind of like not running it, not running
a certain channel, turning it off for a
few days, turning it on, seeing what the
differences, that kind of stuff to
figure it out. But it's hard. Yeah, it's
very hard. There's no like tool that
actually can like cover all the
different channels, all the different
touch points. So, it's just more
subjective than anything.
>> Yeah, very difficult.
>> Okay. So, then you said So, Mr. Beast
was probably your biggest one you worked
with. So, you were going into like more
female influencers. your guys' app is
beautiful because it's such a big
market. Like everyone eats food,
everyone needs to track their calories.
Um, when you got into ads, I'm curious,
A, did you work with an agency or did
you do it internally? Did you hire
internally? And B, uh, the creative
process, were you using the influencers
and the UGC content and then you had
usage rights and were able to run those
as ads or were you getting content shot
as ads?
>> Very good question. So, initially when
we started paid ads, we were focused on
influencer marketing. So, we were like,
"Okay, we don't want to leave this
channel completely untapped." So, we
hired an agency to run it for us. But
honestly, as soon as I started doing
research, I've never been a fan of
agencies. I just never believe like,
okay, they're never going to care as
much as someone that's actually on the
team living, breathing, talking to
everyone on a day-to-day basis. So, I
always knew we would move away, but as
soon as I started doing research, I was
like, "Oh my gosh, this is actually
horrible how we'd been running things."
And so, I started running it myself.
then brought in someone else to do it.
We like went through a few people but
then finally got a really solid team in
place to run the ads and it took a while
and like we lost we spent a lot of money
on it.
>> So okay so you worked with an agency at
first
>> at first
>> and then it wasn't really performing
well basically
>> we were just capped out like we couldn't
pass 5K a day and spend.
>> Oh you just maxed out how much you could
spend. Were you trying to be profitable
immed on the first month? Yeah, we were
trying to be profitable immediately
because we're always like cash
constraint because we're a bootstrapped
company.
>> Gotcha. And so what was I forget what
was your price point?
>> $30 a year.
>> A year. Yeah.
>> Okay. So you're trying to make trying to
run ads 20 bucks make 30 bucks,
>> right?
>> Did you know your churn like what was
the likelihood of someone renew 30 year
long subscription on year two?
>> I don't think I could share exactly what
it is, but I'd say the average for the
industry is about 30%.
>> Would churn
>> for health and fitness apps
>> for annual. Yeah, for annual
subscriptions. And that's because these
apps they require a lot of disciplines.
They're like naturally have churn.
>> That makes sense.
>> 30% retention, not churn. So% leave.
>> Okay. Interesting.
>> Yeah. So that's helpful for the modeling
when you're doing paid ads, but you
wanted to be profitable on the first
year obviously. Okay. So you were
running these ads with the agency. What
was the problem?
>> So it was honestly how they set up the
campaign structures that was a big
thing. Campaign structures are one of
those things where it's more of an art
than a science, but you have to there
are good ways to do it. And then there
are ways that like really over
complicate it and then just like mess
everything up like cuz there's so many
settings in Facebook ads for example
that you could toggle and people think
certain things are important but really
like you want to keep it simple. You
want to set up your campaign structures
in a very simple way. And creative is
key. Creative is the whole strategy. You
just set it up once and then it's all
about the creatives. And you asked like
do we use influencers or what for the
strategy?
>> Mhm.
>> And for that initially we used
influencers that was the biggest thing
but then very quickly we realized that
okay these influencer videos they work
really well for short form organic reach
but the ad placement wasn't strong
enough. We've always optimized for
subtle ads in the influencer videos so
that they don't brick the engagement.
>> Mh.
>> And so it was really when we started to
build out an in-house creator team or
not really like fulltime in-house but
affiliate model of creators that would
make videos exclusively to be run as ads
that we really saw good performance and
scaled.
>> Interesting. I want to get really
specific and ad will nerd out if that's
all right. What was the campaign
structure like? Were you running CBO
campaigns? What was the problem that
they were doing? What did they overindex
on? This is gonna be a really nerdy
part, but
>> Okay. No, I don't want to say if you got
into it. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Um,
>> keep it simple. Just high level
structure.
>> I'd say high level what we do is we
will mainly have one campaign that's our
scale campaign
>> and then one that's testing. That's like
a pretty common strategy.
>> That's what we do.
>> And I believe in our scaling campaign it
is actually CBO.
>> Mhm. And then do you are you doing any
sort of interest group targeting
lookalike audiences?
>> Yeah, we don't do any of that. Okay. We
really believe that the algorithm is
just so good at this point that you
target with creative. So even if you
want to do retargeting like showing an
ad to someone who already saw a previous
ad
>> instead of tweaking any settings on
Facebook saying like okay only show this
to someone that saw this ad just in the
creative we'll say you've probably seen
our ads before. This is XYZ and that
works.
>> Interesting. So you have the brand
awareness and you're knowing that they
are already aware of what you are and
this is really just more of like
aformational or objection handling ad.
>> Yeah, I would say so. And that's
something we're trying to get better at
to be honest. Like we're trying to get
better at the objection handling
>> but generally like it really is an art
form. You don't know like which ads are
top of funnel and which are like the
ones that are converting. And so you'll
see a really high customer acquisition
cost for one,
>> but then if you turn it and and a really
low for another ad set, but if you turn
off that first ad set, you'll think,
"Oh, it's unprofitable. Let's turn it
off." Maybe it jumps up the cost
customer acquisition cost on another one
because they were seeing this these ads
first and those were the ones that were
funneling into the second ad group.
>> Yeah. And then once you calculate in
like your organic content or the UGC
stuff, like did they see that first then
they see an ad then they get a
retargeting ad. you have frequency of
how much they see each ad if they see
the same ad multiple times.
>> A good media buyer, that's like what
their skill set is. It's not necessarily
about setting up the ads,
>> but I'm very interested to see how you
guys kind of evolved. So, what was the
main conversion? Like, were you guys
just doing straight up $30 conversions
as the main
>> optimization for the pixel?
>> We've actually optimized always for
starting a trial.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Interesting. But then you track the
amount of people who convert obviously.
Well, on the back end, but not really
for Facebook's sake because Apple, it
really only allows you to send high
quality data in the first 24 hours of
getting any signal.
>> And since we have a 3-day free trial, if
we send it 3 days later, it's no longer
going to be like reached by Facebook
that it's going the algorithm will learn
too slow. So, we just model out, okay,
we know that this is the average
conversion rate. So, if it's this cost
per star trial, it's probably
profitable.
>> Interesting. Okay. And then were last
nerdy question. Were there any other
tools you were using outside of just you
this is all on Instagram and Facebook I
assume?
>> Yes, primarily.
>> Were there any other tools you were
using for tracking upsell anything along
the lines or just meta manager the pixel
and well we of course used an MMP. We
used apps flyier. You have to really use
one for apps and that's supposed to be
like the best thing for attribution
>> and it's supposed to give you clear data
but it never really does. There's a ton
of drop off. So, one of the guys in our
team, he's like always modeling out his
predictions of like how much he thinks
we actually made from certain things.
>> Gotcha. Okay. And then I guess the last
thing I want to do, creative is
everything for paid ads.
>> What was the difference between your UGC
and your influencer content formats
versus your paid ads content formats?
>> So, the influencer videos, the reason
they didn't work is because it would be
like a 3 second clip using the app in a
30 secondond video. It would be like my
morning routine. Okay. Face mask,
breakfast, scan food, go to the gym, go
on a run,
>> and we would be a small part and it
would work, but like
>> that got us maybe to 10K a day and
spend. We couldn't really scale more,
maybe 15. Then once we started making
actual videos where the whole the whole
video is dedicated to, okay, this is an
app I've been using recently where it
lets me track my calories super easily
throughout my day. All I do is take a
picture. It's like directly selling the
app and directly straight to the point
like 5 seconds and less of like even the
whole length of the video. Those really
started doing well and that's how we
broke like we got I think we're doing
like 40k a day. So the influencers that
had a following they would make more
like story based content going through
their day where the app was like a
subtly part of it
>> and since people cared about the person
they were more likely to follow the
story and since the app was subtle they
actually were like oh that looked cool
let me try it. you didn't need to like
sell the app. But in paid ads, you think
it's because it says like paid
promotion, like people like are aware
that it's an ad and they're just like
they just want the direct information.
>> I don't think it's necessarily that
because Instagram even now like they
kind of hide the paper. Very subtle.
Yeah,
>> it takes like a few seconds before the
like download button pops up. So like
the hook can make them think it's
organic. I think it's really the fact
that it's just directly selling and the
f the algorithms are good at knowing who
to target. And so, like, if you could go
to your ideal customer that already has
the need for your product, you don't
really need to do much selling. You kind
could kind of just be like, "Here's the
solution to your problem. They're going
to buy it." So, I think that's what's
really going on.
>> Yeah, that makes sense. So, you just got
more direct response ads that were just
more structured and here's the app.
Here's the benefit. If you have this
problem, this is the solution.
Basically, just very formulaic direct
response copyrightiting
>> kind of. I would say most of our videos
actually aren't even people talking the
creatives that are winning. is more of
like it it demonstrates what that does
because it's very visual in a few
seconds but it's mostly like maybe being
at the gym flexing with music then
scanning food something maybe like a
caption like how I'm how I cut down like
this many pounds in a month or how I'm
cutting for the summer just like a a
hook and then just showing that.
>> Were you involved in the creative
process like directing what was being
made?
>> We kind of left it up to the creators.
>> Mhm. And so we have an affiliate program
that lets any creator make videos for us
and then they just get a percentage of
the revenue. And so we have some
creators making a lot of money.
>> How do you how do you manage the
affiliate program? What tool do you use?
>> We use tribe.
>> Tribe. And then do you have like a
community that you're running this in to
communicate with them? Are you
>> inry WhatsApp for that?
>> WhatsApp. Just a WhatsApp group. Where
were you spending most of your time?
Like what area of the business?
>> So it's shifted a lot.
>> Yeah. But honestly recently and this has
been really good for scaling it's been
in talent like managing the team setting
the vision hiring
>> early on and when we last spoke
>> pretty much everything all the growth
was like carried on the backs of the
founders we were doing everything and
like our developers even we were just
trying to arbitrage use geographical
arbitrage to get like one 1k a month
developers that live in India and like
no wonder the quality of work wasn't
that good. As soon as we started
investing in real talent, that's when
like the company just started growing on
its own. I didn't even need to do or say
anything and people are coming up with
actually good ideas that like actually
move the needle on the company. So
bringing on certain people to the team
has been crucial. And that's where in
the last few months, most recently, I've
spent most of my time is just finding
these guys that will bring on new ideas
that we haven't had before, experience
from other companies. And that's all
been super impactful.
>> How big was the team when you sold?
>> More than 30 people. It's it's about 30
people that are kind of running the app
and marketing and design team. And then
we have another team of virtual
assistants. That's like another good
amount of people.
>> That's so 30 full-time basically.
>> Yeah. The virtual assistants are
full-time too, but they are um
contractors.
>> They are contractors. Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> But you got to 30. Did you get to the
point where you were kind of removed
from the business?
>> I got to the point where I could step
away.
>> Mhm.
>> And the business is going to keep
growing itself. Like there are smart
people in every area that I trust to
make decisions dayto-day
>> which is a really cool thing to have and
a really special thing to have built.
But I definitely honestly there was a
period where right when I started
college I kind of stepped away for a
month and I noticed like morale was
down.
um the numbers started going down or
like stagnating a little bit and then I
came back and they started doing good
again and I just realized the power of
just having like someone that's setting
the vision and constantly reminding
people like what we're actually doing
this for, what are the goals, bringing
people together like that's super
overlooked and actually extremely
important.
>> It's a later stage problem, but it's
absolutely the most important part once
you have some sort of product market fit
and you're growing. Absolutely. If you
were talking to another app founder and
you had to tell them everything you've
learned through paid ads like and very
quickly like how would you recommend
other app founders to approach running
paid ads? I would say that if you have
friends that are founders, you should
talk to them about it. Maybe you should
watch content like this podcast is a
great resource. I would go back and
watch that whole section we just
discussed. Definitely gave away a lot of
sauce on that. It's difficult to get
started because it's a very comp complex
tool and there aren't many guides and
also the alpha of like okay the
strategies you actually want to use are
constantly changing. The algorithm on
Facebook is constantly changing. 5 years
ago lookalike audiences were the entire
name of the game. Now it's all about
creative and properly setting up the
accounts from the start and looking at
frequencies of everything like you were
mentioning. And so you should learn I
believe 80% like it's kind of the prito
principle actually learn the 20% that
accounts for 80%. And so talk to people
look at content online. There's a lot of
free content and you have to experiment
too. So you're going to have to spend
money like maybe $50 to $100 a day on
just running ads to experiment and learn
kind of how these structures work. But
if you could learn the 20% that accounts
for 80%, you know, enough to hire
someone that actually knows all of his
[ __ ] and can run it for you, run it for
the whole company. So that's the route I
would generally take is learning enough
to make a good hire.
>> Okay. Interesting. Yeah, I think that
there it's really just like how you need
a lot of creatives because they the way
they play into each other. It's hard to
like understand, but you have to do it
like iteration
>> and Andromeda is so good at serving
these ads to people and they're finding
combinations of like if I show them this
ad first then this ad second, they buy.
>> And so it's hard to like read that just
from the numbers, but you know it's
happening.
>> Yeah. And
>> you say Andromeda.
>> Yeah.
>> What's is that a company?
>> That's the name of the newest update of
the Facebook meta. I didn't know the
algorithm. It's called the Andromeda
update. Interesting.
>> First you started with UGC and
influencers in the fitness space. Then
you brought it out to the big creators,
female influencers, Mr. Beast, you name
it. As big as you could get. Then you uh
tried meta ads with an agency. They were
just using those influencers videos that
just putting them in the ad library
wasn't very effective. You turn the ads
inhouse went a little bit more direct
response. So instead of less subtle, a
little more about the app itself, and
that's how you were able to scale as the
pixel learned, you made more creatives,
and that got you to 3 million a month.
You also had an affiliate program. Well,
that's what got us to 5.7 million a
month.
>> Okay. Even better.
>> Yeah.
>> So, that's all you needed to do really
was just crack paid ads and then have an
affiliate program.
>> Yeah. The combination was definitely
huge. But like paid ads alone wouldn't
have gotten us there. Like having first
of all the influencers like that
definitely accounts for a few million
every month.
>> And that didn't stop.
>> Yeah. That it didn't just die down.
We're still doing that. But then on top
of that, now we have paid ads that's
doing really well and a few other
channels that are smart that like
altogether the mix is good and now we
have renewals coming in since we're a
year later.
>> We have the fact that we were so big
with influencers before running paid ads
certainly helped us because we already
had the awareness and now we're doing
like kind of direct response targeting
for our ads. So people that have seen us
all over social media finally it's like
okay time to buy. And so like all these
factors played together and definitely
helped.
>> I say that all the time. The best way to
get your ads to perform better is to
invest more in organic brand awareness
and more ads. Like you're building up
like millions and millions of eyeballs
and goodwill and that can just be more
like brand awareness and like brand
building and then paid ads where you
liquidate, right?
>> Yeah. Get the actual sale and you just
go straight for like the kill shot with
people who are warmed up.
>> Yeah.
>> So they play in together really well.
But it's just incredible you guys were
able to scale to 5.7 million a month
with really just those two dynamics
working.
>> Yeah.
>> So I'm assuming my fitness pal saw
upside and opportunity. I guess I really
want to know like how you because you
kind when you sell a company I'm
imagining did you have to like sell it
like did you have to say hey these are
opportunities where I think you guys can
take it from here or was it just like a
no-brainer
combo since they were the biggest player
in the space?
>> It made a lot of sense to combine
forces.
>> Mhm.
I'd say we we do have different core
audiences.
We also do have overlap and where the
overlap is is where we were going
head-tohead and competing and we have a
shared goal. The shared goal is just
help as many people as possible become
healthier, lose weight or gain weight,
whatever their fitness goal is. And so
coming together was the best way to
achieve that.
>> Mhm.
>> Everything made sense.
>> That's really cool, bro. The fact that
you've How long has it been from the day
you started to selling it? So the day it
would it's been about a year and a half
since launch to sale which is really
cool.
>> A year and a half zero to 30 million in
ARR.
>> I mean yeah at this point I guess we're
at like 50 million in ARR.
>> Uh do you have upside and you said you
sold 100%. Did you do you have upside in
future growth?
>> Not I I don't have any equity.
>> I would like to get in the actual what
you how you're seeing the world develop
like you're choosing to sell now. I
don't know how strategic or intentional
that is with like the uncertainty in the
world, but like do you still think that
starting an app is like a good idea
right now?
>> Oh, 100%. It's the best time ever to
build. It's becoming easier and easier
even if you don't know how to code. I
mean, if you asked me the first time we
did the podcast, these Vibe coding
platforms, which were starting to come
out,
>> were really bad.
>> Now, they're actually great. Like Ror,
I've been playing around a little bit
with that. It's actually a great
platform. There are a couple others,
too. And so, it's so easy to just build
put something up. My friend actually
that I went to high school with, he
built an app on Ror. It's called Wrestle
AI or Fight AI. He released two and it's
now doing $30,000 a month. And he's also
just like a normal kid in college, just
very very hardworking,
didn't know how to code, learned how to
market on TikTok organically, and now
he's killing it. Like how do you feel
like college kids should like do they
think they should get a job or do you
think that this is like actually like a
really realistic path for a lot of
college kids?
>> Yeah, I think they have to decide if
entrepreneurship is for them. I think
the hardest part about it is there's so
much uncertainty.
>> Like so much of the time you just have
no idea what you're doing. Even now, I'd
say when I started when I was at zero, I
had no idea. I was completely uncertain.
Okay, how do I get from zero to one? How
do I get from zero dollars a month to
10K a month? No idea how to do it. I was
like just throwing [ __ ] at the wall.
Nothing was sticking. Then I learned and
now I could do that again. Like at this
point where I am, sure, I learned how to
build a company to the scale of Cali
where now we're doing 50 million in ARR,
but how do I build a company that's
going to go from that to $100 million a
year? And that's really where the
uncertainty is now. And so there's
always uncertainty you're dealing with.
You just have to learn to live with
that. And kind of the job unsec
insecurity, all that. You just have to
learn to deal with it. And so if you
want what comes with it more than the
pain of the uncertainty, it's worth it.
Otherwise, maybe you should get a normal
job. When you were in uncertain times or
stuff wasn't working and you were like
mentally probably like like I guess like
going through like a hard you don't know
what to do moment. Was there anything
any practice or any sort of like mindset
that you've adopted that's helped you
getting through gotten through that and
to like push through when you're going
through a hard moment?
I think the best thing has always been
that I've had really good co-founders
that are super aligned and like-minded.
And so anytime that I'm feeling like
uncertain about things and like they're
always great to talk through whatever
we're dealing with at the company and we
usually always assess like okay what's
the maximum downside of this or what's
even the maximum upside and then we come
to like okay so you know we're going to
make the best decision with what we know
but even if we [ __ ] up like we're in
this together and like we'll just we'll
figure out a way to make it out. I
absolutely agree with having a business
partner, especially if you're trying to
build like a real company and not just
like a cash flowing 10K a month
business.
>> Were you intentional with your
co-founder choices? Like how did you
guys like was everyone a different role?
Like what were the roles that people
played?
>> Yes. So very complimentary which was
great.
One of my co-founders, Henry Langmack,
he's the CTO and we met together at
coding camp when we were 10 years old.
So that was awesome. We like knew each
other for a while. had built a lot of
small projects together and Cali was
really the one that took off. Blake
Anderson, another co-founder, who was
mostly, I'd say, a pretty hands-on
advisor slash he put some money in with
us in the beginning and
he was super helpful for the go-to
market strategies from his previous apps
that he's built. He like advised us on
how to really run influencer marketing
was the biggest thing and really helped
with the product design early on. And
then Jake Castillo who's our CMOCO
who ultimately helped put all the
systems in place to scale like our
influencer marketing strategies and
everything super effectively keeping
everything super organized. So all these
skill sets super complimentary and
together we were able to build this
together.
>> And you were CEO.
>> Yeah.
>> Beautiful. Interesting. So you had the
CTO, COO and the person running the
marketing operations. Then you were
really the vision.
>> Well, I would say so the marketing
operation. So Blake was like not
directly running them. He gave the
strategy for
>> the advice and then Jake.
>> Yeah. And then yeah, it was mostly me
and Jake and then eventually mostly Jake
running influencers.
>> Amazing. I think that's something that
really a lot of people should understand
like you have to you cannot just do it
with a friend that has the same skill
set as you. It's like if you're going to
partners are extremely important. It's
what broke me through my first million
dollars was just bringing on a partner
who actually knew how to operate and
organize where I could just be ideas and
marketing. I mean, that's very, very
important. But if you work with your
friend in college, it's fun to get off
the ground, but you're going to have
problems if you're just friends and you
have the exact same skill set.
>> Yeah. Like someone needs to be like a
organized operator, someone needs to be
a creative marketer, someone needs to be
a technical builder at the end of the
day.
>> Yeah, that is a hard thing. And I've
gone through that with a lot of people
even now like I'm talking to people and
you know we like have an idea that we
both really like. Like maybe he comes up
with it and he shares it or I come up
with it. I share it and then the thought
is like okay like I like this person and
he thinks this idea is good too. Is it
worth doing together?
>> But then I realize like wow we have so
many overlapping skill sets. I just
don't even know what we would split up.
And so I think if you have a friend like
that and you're just trying to get
started, the best thing is probably to
>> work alongside each other. It's very
good to be supporting each other and
like building together, but it doesn't
necessarily need to be on the same
thing.
>> So build your own apps just in the same
room and like support each other with
what you're learning.
>> I would say that's a good idea. Or you
could do it together, but you should
define who's going to do what. Like
maybe one person takes more of a lead on
building it, the other takes more of a
lead on marketing, but there could still
be more overlap. But I think that having
an area of decision- making and an area
I like to call the areas of genius, the
zones of genius are important because
you need someone who's like the final
decision maker on tech like what
programming language are we going to
write in?
>> What do we what tech stacks should we
use and someone that's making the final
decision on okay, what channel should we
spend our marketing money on? Otherwise,
you could have a lot of back and forth
which I think just slows things down and
can really kill companies.
>> Yeah. And so it's like really defining
you're going to make decisions on
marketing. I'm going to make decisions
on technical stuff. We're going to talk
about it and make sure everyone is aware
of why we're making the decisions, but
at the end of the day, if we disagree,
this is we're going to go for my
opinion. Jeff Bezos had a good line like
I disagree, but I commit like like if
you can get to that point.
>> Yeah.
>> That would be like that's a really good
way to show mutual respect, but you need
to define that very early partner that.
>> Very cool. Okay. So, I guess I I do want
to go into this with because it's so
fascinating that you're like 18, 19
years old and you went to college. If a
college kid wants to start an app, how
do you think they should approach it?
>> I think building in cloud code right now
is the best way to create a high
quality, like the highest quality.
>> The vibe coding tools, if you have no
experience, are still good enough to
like make an app that's making tens of
thousands a month,
>> but they're not as good. So, ideally,
you would go with the best thing, but if
you don't want to or can't, then vibe
coding is fine. You have to come up with
an idea that you know that you'll be
able to actually market it. I wouldn't
really build anything that I had no idea
from the jump like, okay, I could build
this, but then what am I going to do
with it after? That's kind of a strategy
with everything that I worked on. I
always knew from the start, as soon as I
launched, what marketing strategies I
would take. And I mean, you got to come
up with a good idea. I've always found
that solving a problem in my own life
works pretty well. But you could also
just talk to more people and there's
there are just so many ways to come up
with ideas. How do you know if something
will work from marketing? Were you did
you see other people doing a strategy
that was in a different industry and
you're like, "Oh, this idea that could
like that format of content could work
for this." Were you actually going out
and creating content before building the
app and seeing if it would get views?
Like
>> what Drake, what would your philosophy
be on proving that you can get customers
before you build an app?
>> Definitely. Sometimes it is that I see a
format working for another app or
another product and I think like, okay,
if that works for this, it could
definitely work for me. I mean, at this
point, I've definitely seen a lot. So I
know I've built the intuition of okay
this will probably convert well with
performance ads this will probably
convert well with influencers and there
are some principles that distinguish the
two. I think ultimately performance ads
like running on Tik Tok Facebook will
always take you the furthest. This is
assuming it's a like subscription model
or pay upfront. If it's something like a
social media platform this advice would
be completely different. like social
apps, your growth strategies have to be
like very unique for each one. But if
you're running a model where you're just
trying to make money from each user,
then
typically the performance ad platforms
just because they have the most number
of users on them will be able to take
you the farthest.
>> However, they may not be the most
profitable. You may have a higher ROI on
a different channel. And so nearly
anything can work for performance ads,
but you have to decide like is there
something a different channel I should
take maybe first. So maybe that's
influencers, maybe that's UGC content.
Like if you have no money at all to
start it, I would just make videos
yourself. Like that's the lowest cost
way. And it's one of those things where
one out of 10 videos maybe goes viral
and that like makes you $1,000. I think
if you're just starting out really truly
like being self-aware of like, okay, I'm
going to create this app that solves
this problem and it's going to solve
this problem for this person in this
market. These people in this market hang
out on this platform, so therefore I
need to figure out how to make content
for these people on this platform.
Research the formats that work. If
you're completely broke, make that
yourself,
>> right?
>> Prove it. If you get some revenue, dump
that into another UGC creator to give
you more leverage. And then
>> figure that out. Figure that out. Then
ads will take you from a million to 5
million or from or 10k to 100k depending
on the scale of your app,
>> right?
>> Was there any thought process of like
the visual aspect of Cali
>> of like making the ads easy to like
understand quickly?
>> 100%.
>> On the app, I mean we put Cali the name
on the top of every page.
>> We actually have two versions. A version
for regular people to use when they
download it and then a version for
creators. And the creator version says
Cali big on every page. It makes it look
like they have like a perfect streak of
like using the app for like 30 days in a
row or whatever it is. So we just make
it look really pretty and optimized and
like great for an ad.
>> So basically you're saying is like you
have an influencer, you know they're
going to record their phone. Yeah. And
so you made a second version of the app
with huge Cal AI logo. So if someone
were watching the ad, they'd be like,
"What app is that?" C.
>> Exactly.
>> Wow. And then you even did like the
streak. So like it
>> looks like whoever is recording is like
an active pack.
>> Dude, that's so smart. I did not know
that. It's like the McDonald's or Burger
King ads where they have like the
perfect looking hamburger, you know?
Yeah. They like sprayed it and [ __ ]
Yeah. And it's like really bright. It's
not edible, but in the ad that's what
they're doing. So it's very similar.
>> That's advertising.
>> Yeah, dude. That's smart. And so I guess
this is a really weird question, but do
you think that a kid that's like
marketing focused or like a business
student that's creative has more of an
advantage or do you think that the
developer that's technical using Cloud
Code would have more of an advantage if
it's just a one person head-to-head dude
battle? 100% the creative person at this
point because building an app is so
easy. It's about having taste of like,
okay, I could build this app, but how do
I actually design it? So, it's a very
simple and intuitive design. And then,
how do I make it go viral? How do I get
users?
>> If you had a perfect app, but the worst
marketing, you would get no downloads.
If you had the worst app, but amazing
marketing, you would still get downloads
and you would make some money from those
people even though it's probably like
very small conversion rate. So,
marketing beats just building. I would
agree. I think that being able to see
the opportunity and communicate the
value and then the more you understand a
market or a problem space, the better
your solution will be where if you're
just a developer that knows how to build
these things, you're going to really
struggle with
>> understanding that customer's problem.
So, I think the creators that have an
audience have a huge advantage right
now. Yeah.
>> Is it going to make hyper niche tools
that really solve their people's
problems? Are you recommending other
people to go to college right now?
>> Because you have probably friends in
high school still. You have a younger
brother.
>> Yeah.
>> Honestly, it took me a little bit to
realize this. Like I did go to college
for the social life. If I didn't, it
would have been more of like a leap of
faith, but I've realized I actually
there's so many entrepreneurs that are
young like me that I've been hanging out
with. Like I just came from Miami to New
York and I've been hit up by like five
people that they're all in New York and
they want to do dinners and like I don't
even have enough days. I'm here to see
all of them. So like there are enough
like-minded people where I wouldn't be
completely on my own and isolated if I
didn't build a friend group in college.
So it's not necessary. It might take a
little bit to build up that group if you
don't go to college. But in terms of
like educational value, it's good if you
want to be maybe a doctor or a lawyer,
but if you want to build software, be an
entrepreneur, definitely not needed from
a like education.
>> Did you go to business school? I
actually was initially enrolled in the
business school and then I switched out
of that
>> to what?
>> I switched to the arts and sciences
school, but I'm undecided as my major.
>> Did you go to business classes?
>> I took one one business class.
>> If you were talking to a college like
president and you were in charge of like
what the curriculum should be or how
they could adjust to be more well suited
to the modern way of life, how would you
recommend colleges fix their curriculum
to give people your age better
experience? I would say there are a few
things that I would immediately change.
So, first of all, most college
curriculums are just not applicable.
Maybe they would have been 10 years ago,
but the world moves so fast and the
curriculum doesn't update as fast. So,
you leave college and then you're you're
out of date. So, I think always making
sure like there should be a guy that's
dedicated to just okay, what are the
latest tools? Let's integrate that into
the curriculum. like a CIO, a chief
innovation officer of the college.
>> And they should do this in high schools
and middle schools too, I believe.
>> And so like bringing claude code into
the classroom and teaching people how to
use it. I also think teaching people how
to solve problems from first principles
rather than memorization like
memorization I think should be
completely removed. I think it's
useless. Why would you ever need to like
memorization I don't think even is
something you could really teach? Like
maybe it's a skill a little bit, but in
the real world, you don't need to
memorize all these random facts. You
could just have Google out or a notepad
with facts. It's more important to learn
how to use the information to actually
solve different things. So there should
be a greater emphasis on the solving
rather than memorizing the solutions.
>> And I would also say that AI should be
just heavily heavily integrated in like
everything pretty much. But that goes
into the CIO part.
>> Yeah. My philosophy I would say is like
I was in college. I was starting a
business. I was in business school
because I wanted to start a business,
but like I was just feeling like when
are we actually going to do the thing?
There's always just vocabulary, quizzes,
equations, and I'm like, okay, this is I
can see how this could be useful to
know, but I was so frustrated of like,
let me just start a business.
>> So, I feel like if they just like
encourage people to build an app in one
class and then try to get customers,
right? Or if there's like a mark like a
content class where you have to make
content as like your grade.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That would be perfect. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Like you should and actually I
will say so I had kind of a special
class in at Miami. So the
entrepreneurship class I took there was
a professor he only was teach taught for
one semester unfortunately but he was
amazing. He actually sold his company
and he walked away with over $100
million from it in secondaries. He
actually didn't sell but he sold
secondaries $und00 million personally
which is incredible. and he took the
approach of okay everyone like
>> we're going to actually come up with an
idea here and we're going to create an
MVP and then you guys are going to
register your company legally and we're
going to do a pitch at the end of the
class. So he was taking that approach.
>> Not I don't think any other teacher is
really taking that because he was a
successful entrepreneur. He like thinks
the same way as us but unfortunately
he's not teaching anywhere because the
school system's just like [ __ ]
>> He probably got ousted for that you know
>> again either I just like they're too
strict bro.
>> Yeah. politically they like aren't
they're so riskaverse that they don't
want someone that's going to push the
norm
>> but that's directly hurting the kids. I
do think they're in a position where
they could genuinely help a lot of
people if they just got past that.
>> Yeah. Like I would love to teach for
like you know
>> I I want to be a teacher like
>> that strict about who can teach so many
rules.
>> It's very interesting. But I do think
that that is a great segue into you are
probably the most credible person your
age that's using the most modern tools
that's actually in the field learning
the best way to build apps, market them,
position them, everything. you now sell
it. You've done the end process. I think
you're very qualified to be teaching
people and colleges charge 15 to $20,000
a semester to learn information that's
10 years old. But I'm curious what your
thoughts are on what happened when you
decided to teach people how to build
apps.
>> Yeah. So, very briefly, we had the app
mafia and that was like a fun time. So,
me and a few of my friends who are also
entrepreneurs right before I started
college. So, in August, we all got this
mansion in Miami together. We were
filming content. It was so chaotic,
dude. So chaotic. We were filming
content all day. We were just spending
crazy amounts of money on the dumbest
things. And we did launch a course that
taught people how to build apps for
about 3 days until we made it completely
free so that anyone can use it and and
watch it. And it's still live right now.
And people are always messaging us like,
"Thank you for the content." But yeah,
there was like a longer vision, but
essentially what we were trying to do
there was the idea kind of kept shifting
and there was a lot of just misalignment
with like everyone's lives were at a
little bit of a different point. So
pretty quickly just like that
environment. It just became chaotic and
so it eventually like broke off and
we're all friends now but we did split
up and stopped really making content on
that. But it was interesting for time.
We got a lot of controversy and hate. I
was a very big fan of what you guys were
doing. I think you guys did bring
together like a really cool team like
>> the Twitter guys, incredible success,
really good at marketing as well, really
good at app design as well, like UX
onboarding. You guys very like pretty
much pioneered the UGC space, you and
Blake. And you guys have a very
successful like scaling system. And then
Hunter was very good at building like
viral loops and organic PLG. And so you
guys had like like your course is
extremely valuable. like I watched
almost all of it and I'm like this is
like the most upto-date exactly what you
need to do, what's working, what's not
course I've ever seen. So I was so so
impressed with that and very happy you
did that cuz I think knowledge is the
one thing in the world that's proven to
help people's lives. Yeah.
>> And so I think what you guys were doing
was like a net positive thing into the
world. But I definitely think that like
chaotic energy probably internally of
why are we doing this wasn't probably
very clear. I always thought you guys
were going to try to like educate kids
and then invest in their companies to
make it like a private equity play.
>> Yeah, there were so many ideas. That was
one of them. I mean, the whole goal was
just helping people, empowering more
people, helping them
>> and educating. And we we did a lot of
that. Like so many people have said that
the course specifically has allowed them
to reach a 10K a month business, which
is beautiful. And the fact that we're
just letting them have it completely for
free is great.
>> And so really happy about that. Super
net positive. But we did. So we had a
community 2 attached to it which we
charged for.
>> We made a few hundred thousand dollars
from that and then we spent it in like a
month which was just wild. Like we did a
lot of stuff with content that we had to
throw out. We went to some clubs, a
bunch of just random payments. I mean
the house was expensive. We had a
private chef. A lot that was going on
and so it wasn't super sustainable. I
understand why you charge for the course
to fund like the thought process. You
charge for the course to fund media to
grow your personal brands and get more
people to know who you are so you can
help more people.
>> Yeah.
>> And so you have you can't just make
content for free. Like it costs money to
have a videographer and editor. You're
also running these businesses. Like it's
a separate entity and you need cash flow
to be able to sustain that.
>> I'm imagining you guys just are also
running businesses. So you kind of
spread yourself a little thin.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. None of us could
really like go fulltime and commit to
it, which is what it would have required
if we wanted to turn into like a big
thing. It also would have been like a
long time horizon to do so.
>> Yeah. I just I don't think that people
should look at it as like some cash grab
like you guys already had money. It's
just trying to make a sustainable
ecosystem on its own on the side that
was rooted in trying to help people.
>> Yeah. And we had a bigger vision which
was to basically build a platform that
was kind of like Shopify for apps.
>> I'd suppose that was like the north star
>> of the company at the time. And it
shifted a lot. like it shifted from okay
we just want to educate to this to this
to this to getting there and so like by
that point it was the fact we all were
running our companies on the side so we
couldn't put the necessary time and
resources that it would have taken to
get there we probably would have wanted
to raise money build out a really good
team get some like San Francisco
engineers in there and so it wasn't like
the best setup
>> would you have done anything differently
>> not really like the grand scheme of
things probably not maybe some like
minor things but nothing that really
like comes to mind I think you know it's
good to I had so many learnings from the
experience which are great.
>> I mean you guys are super young so I you
guys you try something. I think that's
what most people should take from that
like you should be trying stuff. If it
doesn't work out like totally own it and
you guys owned it so I think that it was
a fun moment on the timeline at the end
of the day.
>> Yeah. No. Yeah. I I think that the only
thing that maybe if we redid it I would
have approached differently is like we
purposefully wanted to be super
controversial. So, we painted ourselves
as like these just [ __ ] internet
money gurus.
>> Mhm.
>> And that was controversial and like it
worked. It took over the timeline. But I
also think for what we were trying to go
for was probably unnecessary to be
honest. Like Twitter wasn't We didn't
need like the Twitter people stirring up
the pot.
>> Uhhuh. Cuz a lot of them already kind of
knew who you guys were and knew you were
legit and if they just knew there was a
thing I bet they would have bought.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So I think uh if I can give you
some constructive criticism here in the
education space, lead with value first.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Like for at least a month or two and
then do the controversial stuff to get
awareness out. I think we went straight
into the controversy and it was just
like people were very confused.
>> But overall, dude, I don't think you did
anything wrong. I think you actually
helped a lot of people. I think building
a course is amazing. 90% of people would
never share anything that they are
doing. It's like you will get fired.
like someone that was working at X went
on a podcast
>> and then he was gone the next day
clipped
>> like so it's like I don't think people
understand how cutthroat and intense it
is and you guys just made an entire
video course showing your app every
thought process and everything and so I
do just really want to re like that is a
very amazing thing to do for the world
and very helpful and now it's free for
everybody if they
>> yeah I mean honestly the big thought
process was like I just when I was a kid
I've always dreamed of doing this but I
had no idea how no idea how to start I
was just had the uncertainty that I was
saying earlier. And so like this, we
really built it for our younger selves
to like help them get along faster.
>> And it's like it probably took you
months to shoot that. It was like 60
plus videos, you know, like
>> we were supposed to do it in months. We
kept procrastinating and we like had to
record it. We like crammed it into like
a couple of days.
>> Yeah. It's not No. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
But the actual shooting absolutely.
That's funny. Okay. So I These are all
like This is all very interesting to me.
Like you have probably been the most
entertaining person to watch in this
make money online world because you're
such like a unique character. Like
you're running up an app. You had a
Lamborghini driving it to high school.
Was that cool?
>> It is. It is cool. Apparently I've heard
from people that I'm like apparently
known for just driving in circles around
the parking lot, which is not true. It's
just hard to find parking spaces. But I
guess the cars fixed out
>> just with the top down just so people
see you. Yeah. Yeah. How was college?
>> It's Miami. Of course I have another top
down.
>> That's probably just fitting right in
there. Yeah. How was college with that?
Like that's to me I'm just genuinely
interested. Like what's it like to have
a Lamborghini in college?
>> Dude, honestly so interesting.
>> Mhm.
>> Like in first semester we threw so many
crazy parties and this was like part of
what we did with ATM and part of where
all the money went.
>> We threw these crazy house parties and
like all of the freshmen would come. It
was so much fun. Such great memories.
And I feel like I got all of the
partying I needed for like all my years
of college just like in that short
period. So like that's why I'm kind of
like not worried about dropping out cuz
I just had such a short such a fun time
just packed into a really short duration
which was great. I think you did it
right, dude. Like you got it in, you
went there. You met the right people.
You had the experience. You maxed it
out. You speed ran it basically.
>> And then you probably burnt yourself out
of that and you're like, "All right,
back to the mission."
>> Yeah.
>> And now look at you. You sold Cali. Do
you have any plans for what's to come in
the future?
>> I have a lot of ideas. Nothing that I'm
like actively ready to talk about.
>> Okay. I I do think that this is a good
time for you probably like reset. Think
about it because I'm sure you're trying
to go for a big one after this. Yeah.
>> Yeah. The next one would probably be
shooting for a billion.
>> I think that's very possible, dude. If I
can invest in you, I would invest in you
as a person. Just whatever venture you
have would.
>> Thank you.
>> I wonder if that'll ever be a thing.
Yeah. I mean there was like you know
believe for a second was that
>> Yeah. I think that was more like
influencer like
>> it turned into that.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting though. Is
there anything else that you think that
we should go into? I I think we
everything I've observed these are all
the things all the questions I've had
cuz I've been paying attention to what
you've been doing. I respect you a lot.
I think you're an amazing and talented
person and you do good in the world. So
anything else you think that we should
cover? Is anything about the Cali
journey I didn't ask about that you
think would be interesting?
>> I mean nothing immediately that comes to
mind to be honest. I'll ask like if I
have like a few more random questions
that aren't related just to see if this
is something that you think about. Okay.
Do have you done any sort of like this
is going to sound woo woo but like
spirituality visualization manifestation
like do you have any sort of belief
system there? Because it's not common
for an 18-year-old to find success so
quickly. And so I'm imagining that
you've had some sort of like default
belief system instilled in you to make
you believe you can do this to go
through uncertainty and actually set a
goal and make it real. It's a very good
question. Very interesting. So, I know a
lot of people like these gurus online,
these millionaires, a lot of them talk
about like meditation and journaling.
>> And what's actually funny and
interesting is I did that.
>> Mhm.
>> A few months before starting Cali, I was
journaling. I was journaling every
night. I was trying to meditate. Never
really got into a group, but I was like
actively like meditating like maybe
weekly. And then I stopped all of that.
And then a couple months later, I
started Cali, not doing any of that. and
it was really successful. So like I
don't think that that kind of like
morning routine type stuff ever really
had an impact. I would say though there
are a couple of things that like mods I
kept repeating over and over in my head
throughout the journey that 100% took it
way faster than it should have been
versus speed for everything. Every
[ __ ] thing we did speed was the key.
Speed Speed was key. every employee I
would always tell them like on the first
call with them like speed is our number
one motto here. It's our number one core
value. We need everything to move
extremely quickly. You should never be
the bottleneck for anything. If you are
that's going to be an issue. I would
always be super clear about that. And if
I'm on a call with someone and they're
like, "Yeah, we're just waiting on we're
waiting on this guy to we're waiting on
Frank. Frank, there's no one at the
company named Frank, but we're waiting
on Frank to do this before we could move
forward." I'm like, "Okay, why are we
waiting? Let's get Frank in the call
right now. get him in. Frank, why isn't
this done? He's like, Frank, do it right
now. He doesn't on the call. And then we
launch it. So, like constantly just
identifying like what are the
bottlenecks? Why are things not moving
as fast as possible? How can we move
things faster? And immediately
addressing them, not waiting. That was
the biggest one. I think that's the most
crucial thing to get us there. And then
self-belief.
Extremely important for sure. I think
this one is something you kind of have
to like find your why deep down. I've
always, maybe it's like the small wins
from my childhood, but pretty much
anything I've set my mind to, I've
always accomplished. So like there was a
hackathon I did when I was like 12 years
old and I was like the youngest one
there with one of my friends from school
as well from elementary school and we
won the hackathon against like high
schoolers and older and that was like
sick for us. And I guess those small
wins made me just have this immense
self-belief from a young age that I
really could do anything. And so that's
stuck with me. I think you have to dig
deep to find that. But I think like even
if you don't have proof, you should you
should just prove to yourself like kind
of the motto or a belief that I've had
is I can always execute. So if someone
gives me a road map, if I don't have a
road map, that's one thing. But if
someone shows me like, okay, this is how
something's done, I believe I could
always take that and always execute it.
like it may take time but eventually
I'll get it flawlessly like everyone
says Cali it's a great design that
wasn't an accident like I just until it
was the qu the standard of excellence
that I demanded of myself and of our
team I wouldn't stop iterating on it
more more and more we have to make it
better better better and so extremely
high standards super super important I
have so many thoughts there I would just
say the self-belief thing so
unbelievably true I've interview a lot
of kids like young your age that have
success been successful and that is the
one consistency like there's just like
they 100% believed that what they were
going to do was going to work and they
just did it. Is there any advice you'd
have to someone who doesn't have that
like cuz I had it too when I was very
young like I delusional I'm going to be
a millionaire like I just like felt it
to my belief that was me and I sounded
like an arrogant kid in high school
>> but I'm always curious like how do you
people that might not have that how
would you recommend they what practice
could they instill it? I mean, Tony
Robbins, I believe, says something along
the lines of words become thoughts,
thoughts become beliefs.
>> And so, I think just changing how you
speak. There was actually one time, I
remember this very distinctly. I was in
the car with my mom. I was super young,
maybe like nine. And I was just talking
to her, like saying whatever [ __ ] a
nine-year-old would say. And then I said
like, "Mom, if I'm rich, can I do this?"
I was like, "Actually, mom, when I'm
rich, I'm going to do this." And so like
I always like would instill like through
my language like I'm going to make it.
>> It was never a question. And like even
in my head I was like like but what if I
don't like I of course had doubts but
like I would kind of always try to like
push those thoughts to the side. I'm no
I'm doing it. I'm doing it.
>> So you have you have a statement in
present tense like I am I'm a
millionaire or when I'm a millionaire
like it's like 100% the way
>> like it's going down like definite for
the future. And even if you might not
believe that and feel that right away,
you're actively using those words. So
then it's instilled in you. So your
subconscious now feels that way.
>> That's my exact screen saver. What you
think you become, what you feel, you
attract, what you imagine you create.
>> Amazing.
>> So I 100% think that's like the single
most important thing to understand is
speaking as if something's already
happening or a guarantee that it will
happen.
>> Yeah.
>> Very interesting to hear you align with
that. Then you also you have a personal
brand on YouTube. Why do you make
content on YouTube?
>> Yeah, dude. My YouTube is interesting. I
mean, I don't really edit my videos at
all, most of them. I've tried some where
I edit like vlogs, but to be honest, I
like the raw format better where I kind
of just rant for like 10, 20 minutes in
front of the camera. I just want to
document my journey, my thoughts kind of
on a more day-to-day basis of like
what's it realistically like in the eyes
of a founder on the day-to-day for
people that are trying to get to a place
I am to learn from to kind of see my
thought process and I teach a lot of
that I give a lot of value on them but I
also just show like the realness of the
uncertainty of building a company and
show them like you're not in this alone
like even at these big numbers like it
still feels like the ship is sinking
every day And that's just part of the
game. And it it also will be super cool
to look back on in like a few decades
after I have other companies and stories
and successes under my belt that I'll be
able to show the whole comeup journey
and prove like anyone could do this. I'm
not some genius. Like anyone can do
this.
>> Yeah. I love how you just sit down and
talk and then like 10 minutes in you're
like, "Yeah, I don't really know what
else I'm going to think about or what
I'm going to talk about. I'm not going
to cut."
There's like a 20 second pause and then
you're like, "Oh, oh, there you go."
Yeah,
>> but it does like honestly it's probably
really refreshing nowadays and like this
overedited stuff feels manufactured and
makes it harder to trust.
>> So, it's just cool to see like you're
streamlining your consciousness
>> into YouTube and it will be cool to
watch when you uh when you grow up. Um
it's so funny to say when you grow up.
>> All right. Well, this was fascinating. I
do really appreciate you coming on.
We're shooting this literally the day
before you announced this and so we'll
have this out tomorrow,
>> dude. Tomorrow I'm actually like I don't
know how it's going to go. The goal is
that we're gonna take over Twitter. We
also have like a bunch of just normal
like magazines and articles are going to
come out on it like some the day of some
like a week later throughout the week.
So, it's going to be it's going to be
interesting. But yeah, it's like the
perfect time with all the attention on
me to like do something. So, I've been
thinking about if there's like something
special to do.
>> All right, guys. If you are an app
founder, you're wanting to start a
business and you want to learn from
someone who knows what they're doing,
undoubtedly go follow Zach. Where can
they find you? You can find me on X. You
could look up Zack_Yatagari
on X. Or you can go on my YouTube also.
My name Zach Yadagari. All right,
brother. Well, thanks again. Huge
congratulations. I think this is like
pretty iconic. So excited to see where
you go in the future, bro.
>> Thank you, man. Firero.