The 21-Year-Old Behind $15M in Wholesaling

You're 21 years old. You've done $15 million in tracked assignment fees.

Correct.

You've raised $23 million in revenue for your clients. What is your motivation?

Like I remember sitting in the car right before my dad was about to drop me off at the bus stop. He was looking at our credit card bill and he was freaking out. He's like, "Damn, how am I going to pay this?" And to me, I'm like, "Well, [ __ ] I thought we were going to homeless." I made a promise to myself where I never want to experience that level of fear ever again.

You're doing what? I was cold calling about 6 hours a day for six days a week and it took me three months to get my first client. He paid me $300 via Cash App and I still have the email to this day. Craigslist was a hidden gold mine because...

All right. So, before we get into anything, you're 21 years old.

Mhm.

You've done $15 million in tracked assignment fees.

Correct.

You've raised $23 million in revenue for your clients and you have just some incredible stats behind you at your young age and I just wanted to ask you like where where did that get started? What drove you for that?

So I started my marketing agency when I was 15. I'm 21 now so that's 6 years and a lot of it started out during COVID. So I remember long story short growing up uh in middle school my parents actually got divorced. So what had happened was I ended up fighting to live with my dad. So me and my I have a younger sister. We live with our dad and during this time if you would uh because of co everything shut down, right? So I had all this time on my hands and nothing to do. So there were two routes I could have gone. I could have been like my sister where I didn't do anything with my life. But for me, I know that I wanted more because I saw my parents and what it was like to struggle with money. So my biggest motivation back then was to make money. That way I don't encounter that. So that's when I went on YouTube and like every kid does, hey, how do I make money online? Right? So for me, I looked into drop shipping. I looked into Amazon FBA. I looked I've even looked into wholesaling real estate when I was like 15. But the reason I didn't do it was because of the fact that you had to be 18 for contract to be legally binding. I couldn't do that. So, uh, for me, I came across the marketing agency space and the the idea that I was sold was if you make these companies money, they're going to pay you money consistently. And just like that, I was hooked because another thing that I learned is that if you can learn to market and you can learn to to sell the skill set, you can do anything. So, for me, I was like, what is a business or an opportunity that I can pursue where I'm making money consistently, right? Um, I'm learning the skills that I need and I can apply it for everything I do in the future. That's where the agency space came along.

So I remember right after that uh I started off with Google My Business. So trying to sell local businesses uh how to do or how to set up their Google My Business listing, get that verified, rank it. So a little bit of SEO, things like that. Uh that didn't work. So what I would go ahead and do is I would sell the next easiest thing and that would have been uh social media management. So like a company where I would try and get a client. Uh they would send me pictures, videos, things like that and then I would post that. So it took me about 3 months of cold calling. I was cold calling about 6 hours a day for 6 days a week and it took me 3 months to get my first client. I still remember his name. His name is Christian. Um he was a mobile mechanic back in Purland and uh he basically paid me to do all of his social media me. He would send me pictures. He would send me like jobs that he would do, repairs that he would do. I would write a caption and I would post it across his Facebook, his Instagram, and um yeah, that's that was it. It was just Facebook and Instagram starting out.

So, walk me through how you first got connected with him.

So, like I said, what I was doing was I was cold calling, right? So, I would go on Google and just search up businesses near me. And then I'm like, well, this is too broad. So, I'd have to hone in. And I started off with like real estate agents. I started off with plumbing companies. I called roofing companies. I called all the trades businesses and then when you scroll deep down enough it starts giving you other stuff and that's when I came across him as a mobile mechanic. So I remember I remember so well I called him on a Friday evening um and he was like hey call me back on Sunday and we can get this thing going. And I'm like okay whatever. So I have my little notes list I actually have in my um room of all the all the people that I first started calling just on a blank sheet of paper and I called them on a Sunday. This was when I was with my grandparents and they or I called him. I went in my my uncle's bedroom. I called him and uh he paid me $300 via Cash App and I still have the email to this day and I I'll never forget it. Um so for me it took me three months to get my first client and then it took me another month to get my second client and then for the next say 3 6 months or excuse me four to six months I was closing about one client a month whether it was a mobile mechanic. I remember I brought on a few sales guys like car salesmen uh because I was in the automotive space and then I brought on a plumber because I was cold calling off of um Craigslist as well. That was like that was a hidden gold mine for me. For me Craigslist was a hidden gold mine because nobody was on it.

Right? That's that's a good point. Yeah.

Exactly. So that did really really well for me. Um and then after that I'm like this is miserable. I hate cold calling. Um there has to be a better way. And by this time, I've stacked up some money. I've stacked up, you know, almost $10,000, right? And because I wasn't spending on anything. I would no sweets, like no candy, no I would not spend a dime on anything. Um, and then I remember hiring my first mentor. This guy's from Europe. Uh, and he was like, "Hey, you need to increase your prices. You need to bring on a more sophisticated client." And for me, that was working with the real estate agents. And this is back in like 2021, right? So, it was saturated but not as saturated.

So, how long was this after like when you initially started the social media?

About a year. A year.

Yeah. About a year of saving up and and bringing on clients. I mean, I remember getting burnt out because I had like eight clients each paying me like 300 bucks a month.

Wow.

And it was miserable. It was so miserable. Um because you're you're dealing with small businesses, number one. And number two, it's like what I was doing was so labor intensive and it was just me. So to have to compile all the files, uh, log into the ad accounts or social media accounts, post them, send reports, it was a mess.

And I almost kind of forget like the life before AI, but that was like really before like a lot of...

This is like when you're really just starting out. So I was doing everything myself. I mean, I remember having like panic attacks in the middle of the night, waking up that a client's mad at me, and that that happened eventually, but yeah, it was it was very very labor intensive on me starting out. Uh, so a year later, I'm like, "Hey, I need to hire a mentor. I can't do this forever." Uh, I hired my mentor and the first thing he made me do was uh pick a better industry uh client avatar to serve. For me, that was real estate agents. And then start just DMing the hell out of people. So for me instead of cold calling it was u messaging people on Facebook and Facebook groups um LinkedIn and uh Instagram.

You were early to that then on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. LinkedIn never worked for me.

Really?

No. Wow.

LinkedIn never worked for me. I don't think I've ever brought on a single client from LinkedIn. Uh, at least from outbound messaging. So the only clients I've ever gotten were from Facebook and Instagram.

Okay. So, I remember uh I would find these like these these list of Facebook groups that have qualified agents and I would just DM the hell out of them. I remember I had a script. I can't remember how it went, but that was like how I started really catching traction. I was charging clients like, you know, 1,500 a month, 1,200 a month, and I would get a few of them here and there. And I remember in one of these groups, I brought on a um so I remember the first client, I should say, her name was Melissa. She was an agent out of Virginia, right? Uh, she was the loveliest client I've ever worked with. Then this was when I was just starting to run ads. And back in 2021, it was running ads for anybody is so easy.

Yeah. It's a joke, right? So, we were doing uh buy we're generating buyer leads, we're generating seller leads for listings. We crushed it.

So, I got that process taken care of. And then uh I remember the next few clients I brought on were also real estate agents. I don't remember the as well, but I also remember the first one. I remember bringing on this one uh agent, Asian investor is what he is, cuz he's an agent and a and a real estate investor. And this is when things really took off. So, uh, we So, this guy's name is Anton. He's based out of Sarasota or like Tampa or something in Florida.

And uh we crushed it for the agent side. Murdered it. Same thing with uh Melissa. And then he asked me, he's like, "Hey, can you do the same thing for the wholesale side?" Now, mind you, I've never done anything related to wholesaling. I know what it was, uh, and what the process looked like, sort of like, hey, you get a property under contract and you sell it to a flipper, wholesaling, right? Um, and I'm like, I can try. So, I would hop on a call with him. I try to understand what the business is, how it worked, things like that. I'm trying to understand like, can I copy what I'm already doing, but change a few things to get him results as well. And I found out it was basically the exact same thing. You just add more qualifiers. And the biggest difference is you make more money. So instead of dealing with 3% commission fees, you're making 10 $15,000 on an assignment fee. So he's like, "Hey." So I was like, "Yeah, I'll do it." I tried it so well. I mean, back then you could spend like $500 and get a deal. Like it was you can spend $500 to get a deal and make you 10 grand. So imagine consistently putting in 500 bucks and making 10 grand out. That's basically what wholesaling with Facebook ads was back in 2020 2021, right?

Yeah.

So, we we took off for him and then working with real estate agents because I had a few other clients that were real estate agents. I wasn't the biggest fan combined with the fact that it was so saturated already. Like everybody in their mom is marketing to real estate agents. The only thing is the real estate agents from my experience back then and still today they want is um pay per uh pay per listing, right? So after they make their commission check, they'll give you a split. So to me, I absolutely hated that. I'm like, that's not going to work cuz what if this guy can't close, right? So I pivoted to working with real estate investors. And that's when I'm like, oh my god, I get to work with people who know how to run a business who are who are not uh let's just say crybab in a way and understand and have the proper expectations when it comes to marketing and they have money to spend. Like this is incredible. And the biggest nail in the head that really got me to switch over was the fact that there were not many as comp uh not many competitors. There were probably like three back then.

And to me, I look at them and I'm like, man, these guys are old as hell, right? Like, what do these guys know? So, I'm like, I'm young. Mind you, I'm like 16, 17 at this time. I'm like, I'm going to come in and just swoop all these clients.

And that was exactly what I did.

Wow.

I remember going to events almost every single uh month, right? uh back to Houston because there was a big influencer that would come and he basically owned the Houston market. So I'd go to his events and I would just start networking with everybody.

Wow.

And I would just market the hell out of myself. I would try to become friends with the uh the event organizer to build that relationship like, "Hey man, like here's what I've been able to do for my clients. Like I would love to show you how I can do the same thing for you." And I just my way to success.

So I just kept on rinsing repeating that cycle. I would that's how I got speaking events. That's how I got my first podcast. Um, and yeah, once we started uh bringing on and building those relationships with my clients, uh, they would refer me to more people and that's the compounding growth just blew up.

I would say I I think I've recognized your superpower if you had one superpower and it's it's spotting...

The gap.

And I feel like that is one of the things that I have seen with a lot of millionaires, billionaires that they all have in common is they all are really good and people say, "Oh, it's the right place, right time." But in your case, I feel like it's a genuine skill cuz Craigslist, like I mean, call me crazy for calling that a gap. But that's an insane gap that most people...

Cold called off of that thing.

Um, I've I remember trying to cold call off of Yelp as well.

Um, I don't I don't think I got anything out of that, but Craigslist just worked so well and it was so easy.

Yeah. Because a lot of the people on there, you're speaking to the decision maker directly because they're the ones posting the ads, right? So, Craigslist worked incredibly well. And the way I did it on Instagram was I would uh DM and call suggested accounts. So, for example, if you click on a I still remember this. Let's say you go on a a car salesman page, but you don't follow him, but under it, you can or if you follow him, I can't remember what it was. uh if you follow or you not follow him, there's other suggested accounts and you could just call those people. You just click on and just call them because their phone number is in their bio.

Right?

So, you just call them directly. So, that worked really well. And then I obviously carried that skill set over to um these events. And the biggest thing that I did uh going into these events was selling myself. I was a 16-year-old kid and I achieved this amount of results for my clients.

People are going to want my phone number. People wanted my phone numbers and they wanted to find a way to uh hop on and connect with me. That's how I got clients and that's how I built relationships. Yeah. It was incredibly unscalable, but it worked so well.

Yeah. And it just took off and I know that none of my competitors are doing that.

Yeah. And it and it's that it's just a common theme with you is like, you know, the Craigslist, the Instagram stuff, the you know, you're always trying stuff, you're always experimenting and, you know, being ahead of the curve and then also with the wholesaling stuff, right? You said there were like almost no competitors out there. So...

Two.

Wow.

Yeah. Two or three. And is do you think what was regulation like? Was was regulation a motivator for advertisement? Cuz I know now like there's more regulations around advertising.

Back then it was the wild west.

Yeah.

I mean the back then not only regulations for real estate from my experience but regulations on the ad platforms it was the wild west. You could do anything. There was no special I mean I'm sure there was special ad category but like we didn't really use it. It was just open targeting and then we would have multiple adsets. open targeting, interest targeting, lookalike targeting, uh custom audience, and that was it. Just four adsets, throw the budget up and call it a day and just wow rotate creatives every month.

Wow. So, as far as cuz you've seen obviously from a very like young age, you've seen these these platforms kind of adapt and change. What would you say the biggest change to any ad platform is?

When it comes to advertising, I don't think it's just the platform because obviously the platform is important, but it's also the trust level of the consumer because, for example, when it comes to sellers, they've been scammed before, right? They they've worked with another wholesaler, for example, that got them under contract, overpromised what they would pay, and then they back out of their contract. The seller's in this financial trouble, and then they have to go find somebody else to save them. So it's not only the uh the the consumer but when it comes to the ad platforms it the algorithms just getting smarter and smarter. For example, Facebook they have billions of data points per user. So they know exactly what's working and what's not, right? Um so Facebook uh from my experience starting out it was just so cheap like CPMs were so cheap, cost per clicks were so cheap. Um you basic I mean you could teach a monkey how to run ads and it would perform. Uh but over time the platform just got more sophisticated. There was more like privacy policy, Zuckerberg getting sued, all this stuff that really threw everything out of whack, right? Like Andromeda that screwed a lot of people last year. It screwed me last year, right?

Um, so the cost of advertising increasing, sellers getting more or prospects, consumers getting more sophisticated. Um, but yeah, I mean that all the platforms just I feel like the economy after everything is is out of whack.

Yeah, I feel like especially with Andromeda like they didn't really Meta didn't really disclose like hey here's how you should really go about fixing your stuff. They just dropped the bomb and then everyone was left scrambling. What made you switch platforms?

The biggest thing that made me switch from Facebook to Google ads for our clients uh boils down to two main things. The first big one is uh Facebook shutting down a lot of our clients ad accounts. So back in 2022 I remember going to the gym and this was when Facebook was shutting down everybody for no reason. I mean I remember going to the gym uh doing leg presses. I still remember it and I just checked my email. Ding ding ding. All these ad accounts like eight of them got banned and I'm just freaking out because all my clients are like they're on Facebook, right? So for me, I [ __ ] the pan. So that's when we started. I'm like, hey, how do we get around this? And then people brought up the fact that, hey, you should try running Google ads for your clients. And I didn't hear or know anything about how Google ads were performing for our clients. But I was like, let's just try it. That was the first thing. And the second thing was the intent of the people coming in from Google.

The leads once we started, once we launched Google Ads for our clients, the leads that are coming through from Google are way higher intent. They convert at a way better uh conversion rate and the clients are making more profit per deal. So, I'm just like, why the hell am I running Facebook when in the back of my head I know Google PPC performs better for our clients? And the biggest thing it came down to was pricing, right? Google is way more expensive than Facebook, right? Because on Google, you're paying for a click. On Facebook, you're paying per impression, right? So that was one big thing that almost that we had to figure out. It's like how do we get clients that are able to spend more on Google as opposed to Facebook? Because the clients that are doing Facebook, like they're doing well, but they're also like the newer guys starting out, right? It's like the guy doing one to two deals a month. He's a solo operator. He just wants some sort of inbound because he doesn't want to cold call. Those are the guys that do really really well on Facebook or do better on Facebook um because they just want an extra one or two deals a month and they're happy. On the contrary, when it comes to Google ads, these are where the big operators actually are because we have clients spending 60 $70,000 a month in ad spend. I don't know anybody spending that much on on Facebook ads. The biggest guy that we have right now uh spending uh any amount of money on Facebook is uh Grant. He's spending 30k a month. 30 35,000 a month. that's the most like we don't really spend more than that. So that was another big thing. So those are three bigger reasons. Um the intent of the lead, right? Uh we get better clients and better operators because typically when you bring on a client that can afford to spend 10 $15,000 a month, they're pretty established operation and they can afford to spend that. And because of that, they understand like, hey, Google takes time. They know that they need to know they know that they need to talk to say 10 leads in order to close one deal. and they're not upset about the fact that not every single lead closes. So, we typically work with better operators, which means better retention, better relationships with their clients, obviously the results, if the results are there, clients will never leave.

Yeah, that's Yeah, for sure. And that's one thing I did want to ask you because I've noticed, you know, uh, one of the big differences of being around you and having also been around other, you know, ad agencies in the content world and stuff like that is I feel like you have such a a strong connection like with your clients. I feel like that's really unusual. What kind of inspired that?

So, that came from a lot of mistakes, right? Because I wasn't always like this. When I was starting out, I was obviously the only one uh I was the best point of contact for our clients. But then as we continually scale and I join all these coaching programs, they're like, "Hey, like hire yourself out of the agency, have everybody in place, step out of the agency." And what happened was like I kind of felt bad because I see some of the clients getting results but like I have zero relationships. So it was harder to get testimonials. It was harder to get reviews. It was harder for uh for them to trust us when we wanted to implement and test new things. For example, testing and bringing on SEO or trying to uh bring on or get them onto Bing ads. Like I don't have that relationship with them. So going to them and trying to test that with them was a lot harder. Now, yes, I can get my client success manager to do it, but when they hear it from me, typically their likelihood to say yes because I'm the owner and I have that, I guess, that frame is a lot better. So, eventually, the biggest mistake we made is that we scaled way too quickly. And it just felt weird cuz I remember having like almost 120 clients in our client hub. I was like, I don't know any one of these people besides the guys that just started out, but like that's I never lost contact with them. But like all these new clients, I'm like, "Okay, this guy got a contract, but I have no idea where he came from." So, one big thing I've realized is that all of our clients, they have different stories and they have different backgrounds. And the best thing that I've ever done to market our business was to make my clients the star. This is why whenever a client comes on, um, we try to set the expectation, hey, when you do get results, we'd love for you to come out to Houston or Austin, Texas, and we'd love to do a podcast to share your story. Share your results. share your story because you come from somewhere and now that people see you are here where you're at right now with this success not only with us but in your business. Um, I want the viewers to be able to see that and be like hey, it's possible for them as well because of that. That's how the clients that we bring on is just way better compared to any other agency.

Wow. Yeah. I feel like that's that is just a really awesome thing that I've noticed from you is that you're always in touch with people. You're always keeping the relationship healthy. And I think one of the things that, you know, I I have seen a lot of people worry about with ad agencies in general is like they feel like they're not doing anything like especially the business owners, right?

100%. So that that's the issue that a lot of agencies run into because they don't because many clients think they just need leads and good ads, but that's far from the truth. Anybody with time can run good ads and optimize and maybe even scale the campaign if you're actually that good. But that's not the end all be all because you can have all the leads in the world, all the best leads in the world, but if you have a shitty sales process, if you have a bad team who doesn't follow up with the leads, for example, if you have a back-end diso team that can't sell the deals, or you have somebody on your team that's underwriting the deal properly, like there's so many caveats that add up to make the campaigns to make the ads actually perform well. For example, data. The biggest advantage that we have over all of our other competitors out there is that they don't track their clients data. they just run ads, send the leads, make sure cost per lead is within um KPI and then blame it all on the client. But because of the fact that we build tracking systems in place for the client to actually see and for us to see, hey, what is your cost per MQL? MQL is basically a marketing qualified lead. So for our wholesalers, it's sellers that uh have a motivation. They're looking to sell within a realistic time frame. They're not listed, right? Things like that. we can see like okay we're optimizing not for not for the lowest amount of or the highest amount of leads but the most amount of qualified leads and from there I can also see like their leads to contract if I see that their lead to contract on PPC is like one out of 20 I'm like what the hell when I know that KPI is 1 out of 10 so we can dive deep and see what the biggest problem is and what to optimize to make the campaigns perform even better that's a big thing that we have that we implement for our clients is is the data but the other big thing is being proactive Right. So, one of our core values is competitive innovation. So, this this spreads out to the entire team. So, we have to make sure that we're on top of the clients that we're in front of fires uh within the campaigns before our clients see them obviously. Uh and the second big thing is we want to continually be innovating, right? So, how can we make better ads that have better messaging that target the right people? How do we have a landing page that showcases that presents our clients businesses in a better frame? That way sellers look at them as the authority in their market. Um, how do we send data back to Google in a more efficient way not only for their sales team but for us? That way the campaigns over time can get better and better, right? How do we uh build processes for the clients and their acquisitions team to maximize sales efficiency? How to, you know, increase the amount of leads that actually become a contract? Things like that is the reason why our clients perform because everybody comes to us thinking that they just need more leads and need better ads. Yes, that's a part of it, but there's also this entire bucket of action items and things that need to be dialed in as well before actually adding on ads. Because at the end of the day, when it comes to any paid marketing or any marketing in general, you're just adding fuel to the fire. So, if you have a broken process, more ads will just expose that. Like, if you have a bad sales team, more ads will just expose that. Now, whether or not the client wants to admit that is completely dependent on them. They will feel like their sales team is the best in the world, but if they don't have the data to back that up or the data presented to them and I'm like, "Hey, man, your sales team sucks. This is KPI. This is where your team's at."

You can't scale.

So, I think that's that's a big thing that you just talked about and it's how you have that relationship and it's almost like a two-way street where you're kind of saying, "Hey, here's like how you can improve like on your end." And that that data is huge. I feel like I've never heard of an agency that does that.

100%. Cuz nobody does. It's the boring unmanual uh manual stuff that nobody does that helps our clients get the results that they get, right? Like on a Saturday, you know, Saturday afternoon, I'll jump on with client because it's the only time they have available in order to go over the numbers and the the ad campaigns. Fine, we'll jump on. It doesn't have to be a Zoom call. It could be just be a phone call or FaceTime, right? They can just text me the KPIs. I can send this data back to my team and we know what we need to do in order to optimize based off of the metrics that he's given us, right? Um, the thing that really has helped me uh build better relationships with our clients is acting as if we have ownership in our clients businesses, right? Like the easiest thing I can say to sell my client on just the action item and the thing that I want to execute on is just telling them like, hey, here's what I would do if I was in uh if I was an owner in your business. I tell the client whether or not you want to do it is completely dependent to you but you paid me to help you so I would suggest you take my advice.

Wow, that's huge. Yeah, that's like providing resources like you know included in a service that that nobody else does.

And I try not to like that the the entire you know after being in the agency space for six years now, I've learned that if you just set a proper expectation and meet it, the client is happy. But if you exceed that expectation, the client is ecstatic. So, how do we set the bar so low and so real? Not set the bar low, but set the bar realistic to where we can easily meet it. And if we exceed it, the client's ecstatic and they become a raving fan. That's the entire goal. I learned this from the software space, but marketing agency space, the service space is the exact same.

I think that I I kind of want to go back just a little bit and talk about your experience in in just high school and school.

Okay.

So, and the reason why is because, you know, we're talking about all this. You have this incredible system and engine built inside of your head for marketing.

Yeah.

Go back to high school and tell me about what was your experience like in class.

Oh my god, it was [ __ ] miserable. Um,

Right.

So, I grew up in a charter school, so I should probably give context. I grew up in a charter school. So, to me, the way I define charter school is like uniforms, you know, you had to get like a lottery thing sort of thing. It's not as crazy as a lottery, but they explained as a lottery system to get it. So, uniforms, everything structured, we had lockers. Um, it was the opposite of our private school. So, when my parents got divorced, um, and I moved with my dad, this was when I went to a public school for the first time.

And I was like shocked out of my mind. Like, the culture is just so it was it was a culture shock. I mean, you're carrying backpacks with you all day. There's no field trips. Um, kids were vaping in the restroom, smoking weed in the restroom. There's like fights twice a day. It was just I'm like this is the wild this is the craziest thing ever. So to me uh I was fortunate enough to go to high school where my cousins were fairly wellknown like they were athletes. So like my older cousin was a uh a track kid and the other one played soccer and I played soccer as well. He was on the um varsity. I was on JV freshman year. So I was fortunate to have them and transparently like a lot of my friends were because I was cousins with them. I didn't really have that many friends in high school. So, for me, uh starting business was really easy because everyone's like, "Oh, like what will my friends think of me?" I'm like, "I had no friends, so like who cares, right?" So, freshman year was a was a massive culture shock for me. And it was weird because everybody was so like different. I'm like, "We're not wearing uniforms. You just wear shorts to school." Like, it was so weird to me. Um I didn't have many. So, my friends were just like people that would talk to me or people that my cousins knew, right? So sophomore year, um, we actually transferred to another school cuz we moved out of from an apartment to a house. My So my dad bought a house and this school was worse. So my freshman year school, funny enough, was very nice. It was very modern. It was built in like 2016, I believe, and I was there 2019 or 2020, 2021. Um, so it was very modern. It was it was beautiful, right? Super modern, super brand new school. It looked like a like a corporate office type of thing, right? The classroom had like glass. It was beautiful. Um but then I transferred to another school. Um and this school was very built in 2006. Very I was culturally out of place. Sure, I'll put it that way. Right. Um there were there there were more fight uh more fights uh more people smoking weed. Um it was oh my god it was it was crazy. Right. So there I definitely didn't have friends. Right.

What did what did you think when you saw that? Was that like are like what what was your impression of those of the people like and not in a like a bad way?

Oh, the people uh I mean I didn't really care about them to be honest. I was I was I like I didn't...

I mean I I'll dive into this later but like there are some classes where I don't even know what the subject or the name of the teacher was. I was just there. Wow. Okay.

Right. Like you asked me about what it's like running a business high school. It's like that. So sophomore year I'm like I I was mute. I didn't talk to anybody. Like kids thought I was that weird like mute kid, right? So that was that year was really sophomore year was probably one of the toughest years of my life because I'm like I have traction but I don't have as much success and I'm like in this like balance ve like oh I have to focus on school and I am trying to get out of school with the business right so it was incredibly hard balancing everything. So for context, freshman year I went from having like A's and high B's like 89s, 87s to having like old B's, right? So sophomore year was challenging. I would uh like I'd skip class to go to the library to like take coaching calls as an example, right? And that was the entire year. Basically, it was just a mix of balancing both. And then this was when online school happened, right? So end of uh end of freshman or end of freshman year and uh majority of sophomore year. Um, it was it was a mix of it was hybrid is what they called it. It was like online and and in person.

So I didn't like everybody had mass. I didn't really talk to anybody. So it was like made it even harder. So sophomore year was hard. Um passing that. uh junior year I actually like I was like okay business started to get success because over the summer and because of the fact that it's online school um I could just get this out of the way a lot quicker and my way of getting it out of the way was just not doing the work right? So I remember for online school it was so funny I would leave the computer on the Zoom call on my computer just turn off my camera turn off my microphone and go on a run and I just go on a run for like an hour around the neighborhood and come back log off go to the next class and just go about my day and and do all my agency like my outbound messaging, talking to clients, things like I was just doing that on one screen and um my business work on the other screen or school school work on the other thing, right? Um but yeah, junior year was when things started to uh really pick up, right? I was making like my first 10 15k a month and this isn't revenue. This is not profit. This isn't revenue. Um and I'm like, okay, I have success and I just have to do more of this. Now school's back, right? Cuz summer school's back. Balancing school and the agency when it's starting to pick up traction was incredibly hard. And the solution that I had or the decision I was faced with was like, do I just try school, try with school, drop out or then focus with the agency or what do I do? Right? The decision I made was uh let's just screw school and focus on the agency full-time.

Was that a tough decision?

Uh transparently, not really. Okay. Uh cuz I knew I didn't want to go to school. Like for example, going into freshman year of high school, I wanted to become a surgeon. 6 months in of principles of health science, it was an elective class. It wasn't even a main class. I hated it. I'm like, I do not want to be a doctor. Um and I wanted to be a doctor just for the money. And so I don't think that's the way you should have looked at it, but for me it was. Um going back, I it was not a hard decision. I knew that I wanted to do business um because it's hard to be successful if you would monetarily, financially in life, have the freedom if you're working a job. So, I didn't give a [ __ ] about school.

Can you explain like exact kind of exactly what you were thinking? Like what were you feeling when you were like, "All right, business, here we go."

So, it wasn't that hard hard of a decision because like I have my decision-m framework, I guess, is is what you're trying to ask.

Is I have two decisions. I am faced with school where I have to wake up at 6:00 a.m. spend eight hours doing nothing cuz junior year I had like all C's. I had to like beg my teachers to let me pass and I have to do some crazy [ __ ] which I can get into to to pass. I had all C's and I'm like, "Oh, I hate school. I'm not trying here." and this thing is starting to pick up traction and this is something I plan on doing for the rest of my life, not school. Well, my dad thought the opposite. He's like, "Hey, you should like try in school because what if business doesn't work out?" I'm like, "I'm going to make it work out." So, um getting the the having the decision to go all in on business was very easy. I just stopped trying in school.

So, there wasn't even and this is why I asked because there wasn't even a little part of you that was like worried that it wouldn't that it wouldn't work out though?

No, I absolutely I had so much confidence in myself that I would be able to make it work because I surrounded myself with the right people. I surrounded myself with the right coaches, the right mentors. Um, I was on a call with my uh mentors for 4 or 5 hours every single night. I was going to sleep at 1 or 2 a.m. waking up at 6:00 to go to school. Like I had no choice but to make the agency work, right? So, the decision was easy. It was very easy. I'm like, screw school. Like, let's do this full-time. And I even got to the point of telling my counselor. I remember her name. It was Miss Silvas. Funny, I've tried to get in contact with her. I just maybe I have the wrong number. I I remember going to her classroom with my best friend Jake at the time and I was like, "Hey, I want to drop out." And she was like, "Well, you can't do that." I'm like, "Why not?" And she's like, "Oh, your dad's going to get in trouble because you're uh you're under 18. You're out of school." I'm like, "Whatever." And then she told me, "There's a way though to graduate early." I was like, "Tell me more." And this is where she brought up uh dual enrollment. Do you know what dual enrollment? Okay, so basically dual enrollment for those that don't know is is where you can take a college class or you can you can take a class where you get a high school credit and a college credit at the same time. Right? So she was like, "Hey, you can take um you can take summer and uh take all of your classes. That way you don't have a senior year and you can graduate by the end of summer." I'm like, you're telling me I could invest 3 months of my time to get 8 n months of my time back? That's a 3x return on my time. Like, sign me up. And it sucked, transparently. So, the summer school, it absolutely sucked. Um, and the only way I made it through was by cheating, right? So, it gets even worse. I was able to compress eight months, nine months of normal classroom instruction down to a three-month just like cram course that you go to the school in person and you got a guy that's just beating your head for eight hours a day basically. Um, and I didn't want to do that. And then I find out that you can take a test and if you pass the test, you can get credit for the entire um the entire course. I wasn't a smart kid. So, I became I became friends with this girl that I found out. She really liked me. And this was freshman year. We're juniors and we're at two different schools, right? And she happened to be very smart. I was like, "Hey, it would mean a lot to me if you could help me pass this test. That way, I can graduate early." Because in my head, I'm like, "This could literally change my life. Like, I could literally save...

"a year of my time if I can get her to help me take this test." There were like four tests I had to take, and she helped me through every single one of them.

"Wow."

And that's how I graduated early. And I remember after I graduated, I remember I had to retake some of the tests. I was like, "Ask all my friends." I was like, "Guys, like, I'll pay you 100 bucks. Just help me pass and cheat on this test, right? I don't think it matters anymore." But yeah, so I had to cheat my way through a high school/college class to get my credit. And then I remember when I finished my test with her, I was like, "Hey, thanks so much. Like, this is going to have a massive impact on my life."

And then, I think a week after I took all the certificates, or the test reports, I went to the counselor's office. I'm like, "Hey, can I get my diploma and just graduate?" And she was like, "Hey, you're done." I was like, "So, you're saying I don't have a senior year anymore?" She's like, "Nope. In the system, you're good to go." I was like, "Great."

So, I remember on the first day of my supposed to be senior year, I'm just laying on the couch. My dad's like, "What the hell are you doing?" I was like, "Well, I don't have school." She's like, "What do you mean?" He's like, "I graduated." She's like, "How?" He's like, "Well, I took all the tests over the summer. I told you this."

And from there, the next, that first year, 2023, was the year I was supposed to graduate high school. Um, I was, it was so surreal because I'm like, man, during this time, I'd be in third period. At this time, I'd have lunch, and I just have all this freedom. So that transitioned me to having an office. So I got a work office, and I would go there every single day to run the business, and that was when things started to really, really catch up and grow.

"What did your dad think throughout this whole thing? Did you keep him informed? Were you keeping him in the dark?"

Um, it wasn't the best, transparently. Like, I didn't have the best relationship in business while I was in business with my dad because he wasn't, I mean, I understand now, but he wanted the safe route. He wanted me to go to school, get a job, or go to college, get a job, etc. This business, it's like I'm barely making any money, um, or enough to, I mean, I genuinely think I could sustain myself. I was making like 5K a month take-home as like an 18-year-old, 17-year-old. Yeah, 17-year-old.

"I was like, 'This is not bad.'"

So, he saw. So, in the beginning, he was like, "Hey," he didn't believe in me. And then he started seeing trash. He's like, "Huh, maybe he's on to something." And then he sees me traveling for events and speaking on podcasts and stuff. He's like, "Okay, he's okay." Right. Um, and he knows that I don't make the dumbest decisions. Uh, like this apartment was not the best decision, but hey, it makes me very happy. But, um, overall, when it comes to the business, he eventually, like, he warmed up to it.

"So, Gotcha."

"Yeah."

"Interesting. Yeah. Cuz I'm"

"But my mom doesn't know anything."

"Really? Wow. Okay."

"Yeah. She, like, when my parents got divorced, I, I basically lost all contact with my mom. I cut off contact with my mom. So, she thinks I'm still in college."

"Wow."

"Yeah."

"What, what is that like for you?"

"For me with my mom?"

"Yeah. Just in general with both your parents?"

"I just, well, the way my parents got divorced is, I think it was my 14th or 15th birthday. I think it was my 14th birthday. And my dad had set up a surprise for me, like a birthday surprise party at my grandparents' house, cuz we would go to our grandparents' house every weekend. And my mom just didn't like, she had, she was like envious of them for some reason. I don't, I still don't know why, but from what I remember, she was envious of them. And I, she wanted me to stay home and spend time, and we never spent time. She would just watch YouTube, and I would just play Fortnite. At the time, the family got into a massive argument. I mean, my sister's crying, my parents are yelling, I'm like upset. Like, I remember punching holes in the wall. It was ridiculous. And I remember what happened was, me and my sister, we were like, 'We want you guys to get divorced.'"

"Wow."

"So, I remember telling people that and people were like, 'Uh, I remember telling people like, 'Hey, my parents are getting divorced.' And like, 'This is awesome.' They're like, 'They're sorry for him.' I'm like, 'Why are you sorry?' Like, 'Why are you sorry?' We, we asked our parents to get divorced. Me and my sister, we asked our parents to get divorced. And transparently, one thing I've learned is that it is probably the best thing that's ever happened to me. Because if it wasn't for that, I would not have had the life that I had. I'd still be at that crappy charter school. I wouldn't have been able to start a business. I would not have been able to graduate early. Like, I wouldn't be able to do any of that. So, that was probably the best thing that's ever happened to me. So, now I'm not in contact with my mom."

"Wow. Do you think that was a motivating factor for you for, for to perform, to do better?"

"Actually, yes. Now that I think about it, because I remember when my parents got divorced, my dad told me how like most people get divorced for financial reasons. Financial reasons was definitely one of them. I mean, I remember my mom getting like half of his retirement."

"Wow."

"And you know, having to ask my, ask his brothers and, and, uh, brothers and his, uh, the other side, his side of the family for money to help us pay rent, pay bills, things like that. And I remember my aunt having to like take us out on the weekends, um, as a way to like get our minds off of the trauma. But it was funny because I wasn't traumatized. Like, I enjoyed this, right? So, it was a motivating factor because I, there was a point I thought we were going to be homeless. Like, I remember sitting in the car right before my dad was about to drop me off, um, at the bus stop. He was looking at our credit card bill and he was freaking out. He's like, 'Damn, how am I going to pay this?' And to me, I'm like, 'Well, [ __ ] I thought we're going to be homeless.'"

"And because of that, I'm like, 'Well, I never, I made it a, a promise. I made a promise to myself where I never want to experience that level of fear ever again.' So, to answer your question, yes, that was a motivating factor seeing like my dad in that position. Yeah, it was, it was rough, and that was definitely a motivating factor for me."

"Yeah, that's, I mean, that's amazing. I'm, I'm glad you kept that promise because, you know, obviously you're doing really well, and I think you should be really, really just proud of yourself, like overall. Like, I feel like one of the things I notice about a lot of people in your position is they never really sit down and think like"

"I did something really cool because you're always thinking about the next step, right?"

"One thing I also do, um, on top of that, is I have voice messages and pictures of when I first started that I still have in my camera roll. For example, I have like, uh, like I can even show you later, but like a box I, I call it my treasure box of just like, not like paper, of, you know, sales leads that I would just dribble scribble down on a note paper or on a notepad. Um, I still have them. I still remember like Cynthia, I remember she was a gym owner, right? Christian, I remember he was a mobile mechanic. Bill, I remember he was a car salesman, right? I still have that. And to me, I learn a lot about not forgetting where you come from because in business, everybody has their highest of highs. There are also the lowest of lows, and those low, that low time, that time of being stuck, um, and being down, uh, it keeps me humble, and that is something that I've definitely had to learn how to do."

"In addition to keeping you humble, would you say that it does it kind of make you smile sometimes? You're like, man, like"

"It makes me proud of myself that I made it past that."

"Yeah."

"Because the one lesson that I've learned in business is that as long as you can't lose, as long as you don't give up."

"And there have been many times where I've thought about just throwing in the towel. And the first thing is like, just not being a [ __ ]. Um, like that's what I tell myself. I'm like, 'Damn, if you give up, you're a bitch.' And to me, it's just like that, like knowing that I gave up on something that I know I could have pushed through, like that, that, that eats me alive. Like, I take my pride a lot. Like, I, the only, at the end of the day, the only person's respect you have is your own. And if you can't respect yourself, you can't do the things you say you're going to do, it's going to be hard to be successful in anything you do. So, to me, it's like, I just, just focus on getting to that next step. And I remember last year, um, I was in Hawaii. It was like July, July and August around that time. I was probably in one of the toughest times of this entire journey. Front-end sales was struggling, clients were struggling because of the Andromeda thing. Um, I had team members that I had to fire, and I had team members that left. It was just everything was just crumbling right in front of me. And I remember seeing this, um, this clip from Bill Aman. He's a, he owns a hedge fund."

"Yeah."

"I think it's, is it Pershing Square?"

"I think it is. Yeah, I think I think it is Pershing Square."

"I remember watching this clip where he was going through something like he lost $2 billion in the middle of a divorce where his wife's trying to get all his money. And the, uh, saying that he had is just making it to the next day. In the Navy Seals, they're saying is just make it to the next meal, right? So, if you made it to breakfast, fine, make it to lunch. If you made it to lunch, make it to dinner. Don't try to think about, oh, you're about to get a point. Just focus on making it to the next, uh, meal. And to me, it's just about making it to the next day. And if, as long as I can make something better every single day and chip off the problem, I'll be okay. That's worked for me."

"If you had to go back to when you were 15 and give yourself one sentence paragraph worth of advice, what would it be?"

"No matter how hard things get, don't ever give up because you're going to share that story one day to someone else who needs it. And I say that because when you're starting out, you're not really documenting it, right? Especially back in 20, I wasn't really documenting. I wasn't taking videos. I wasn't vlogging. I wasn't doing any of that stuff. And if I could go back, I wish I did, cuz it would be so cool to look back on. The only thing I had from from last year struggling was notes. Like I remember a journal entry I put in my notes tab of everything that's going wrong. And I remember that I would look back on it when things got better, and I did. And it feels good to know that like, damn, I made it past that. That feels really good. Um, because I also know that the people that I meet, that I am talking to on a daily basis, they're either going through it or they've been through it. Everybody shows the the flashiness, the success, but nobody shows the the problems. And in my opinion, in order to build an audience of people that truly want to support and resonate with you, you have to show that side as well. And for me, that's something that I'm going to do more of. Obviously, having you here. Um, but if I could go back, I would document more of that. I would tell myself that regardless of how hard things are, you just push through each and every single day because in the future, I'm going to share this maybe on a stage, maybe on a podcast, um, maybe with another person who's going through that dark time right now, and it's going to help them."

"I think that caretaker mentality kind of kind of just resonates with just you as a person because it's how you help your clients. It's how you help people around you. It's how you view just life, like wanting to help people."

"The thing that I've learned about business is that all business is fundamentally the same. There's a gap in the market, and you have a product and or service that can fulfill that gap, and that's you. You get compensated for it, right? So, in every business, there is a form of client or customer acquisition. There is a form of customer success and or fulfillment, and then there is the thing in between, which is operations that keep you out of jail and, you know, keep you out of trouble, right? So, if you think about any business, I realize that it's all the same, right? It's just you fill, fill in the blank. I'll give you a perfect example. The reason why I think I've done so well serving wholesalers is not only because of the fact that I've done deals myself, so I know what it's like, but the marketing agency space and the wholesaling space is the exact same thing. Fundamentally, at its core, I mean, you think about it. In a marketing agency, you get, uh, clients, you bring on clients, they pay you. In a wholesale business, you get properties under contract, but that's not the, that's not the end. In a marketing agency, you have to fulfill on these clients. You have to keep them happy, keep them coming back. In a wholesale business, you have to actually sell that deal to a buyer and monetize on that. And then you have operations, you have finance, you have legal, you have your ops person, tech, things like that, keep you out of jail. So, the challenges that I've ran into, like of struggling with marketing, of struggling with, uh, managing, recruiting and managing sales reps on the back end, operations, legal, finance, all that stuff. I just take that and carry it over. I just give my clients my internal SOPs of what worked. I just switch out the blanks. That's the entire thing, which is why it's so easy."

"Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons you guys are super successful. And kind of carrying back into, you know, the business side of things."

"If you had to describe Bold Deals, how would you do it?"

"We're an advisory firm to help wholesalers scale. In the past, we framed ourselves as a marketing agency, and that's technically what we did. Like, clients would come to us, and we would market, and then they would generate leads, or we would generate leads, and hopefully they would close deals. Now, um, we are more so advisers in addition to the marketing. Like, yes, we do the marketing, but we're also going to advise you on your sales team. We're also going to advise you on building the right data tracking systems. We actually build them. We just license it to them. Um, that way they know what data they need to track, where their numbers are at. That way, we both know what we need to do in order to scale, right? Um, building, helping our clients build a brand. So, one thing that I have not seen a single other agency do is actually put their clients in the spotlight. So, what you'll see, as I mentioned earlier, is that when a client comes on with us, we always tell them and set the expectation up front. We're very confident you're going to get these results, and these are the results we expect that you're going to achieve with the amount of ads you're putting in within your markets. And from there, three, four months, six months down the line, once they get these type of results and their business is in a steady spot, they have people, they have operators running the company, we invite them out to do a podcast. And from there, we have our clients just explain exactly what they're doing. Cuz I have some clients that are experts when it comes to dispo. I have some clients that are experts on notions, which is alternative exit strategy. I have clients that are incredible at sales. And I have our clients showcase that, um, and showcase their expertise. That way, people from our audience can resonate not only with their story, but get value of what's already working. So, from there, people from our audience are going to reach out with our clients and do deals with them. And as a result, they're going to put me as like, 'Oh, Ben's the marketing guy cuz he did it for you. He should be able to do it for me as well.' So, that brings me more clients. And on top of that, uh, the social proof is already there. They see the relationship that we have with our clients. They see how I've been able to build this guy's brand to give this guy speaking opportunities, coaching opportunities from all, you know, the audience, and they want that for themselves. So bringing them on, they're already sold. They already know what to expect whenever they work with us. That way, that way, or because of that, working with them is a lot easier."

"So let me ask you this. If you had to kind of summarize what makes you guys successful in the marketing side, in the Google stuff, like what is it and what sets you apart from others?"

"So, when it comes to working with wholesalers, it breaks down to three main things. It's the campaign itself. So, the way that we run our ads compared to every other agency is we focus heavily on the messaging. And here's what I mean by this. A lot of other agencies run generic, 'We buy houses, cash offer as is, sell your house fast.' For us, we're targeting specific motivations and pain points. So, people that are going through foreclosure, titled landlords, people who recently got divorced, people who can't make their mortgage payments, and we pair that with running longtail phrase and exact match keywords. So, the sellers that are typing that into the campaigns and are clicking on the form convert at a higher percentage cuz we're calling them at their deepest pain point cuz this, at the end of the day, is a high intent marketing platform. That's the first pillar. The second pillar is a landing page that we build up for our clients themselves. So the job of the ad, and this is where everybody gets marketing wrong, the job of the ad is to sell the click. The job of the landing page is to convert that click into a lead. So for us, how can we build a landing page that puts our client and presents them as the number one go-to home buyer within their market and qualifies that traffic, that click to make sure that whenever they get in front of the acquisition manager, our clients, uh, they're actually set up to succeed. So obviously we get, you know, the, we, so the biggest thing that we do is we take the messaging from the ad that they clicked on and we put it on the landing page. So if somebody clicked on the ad for foreclosure, the landing page is going to say 'Stop foreclosure in Dallas, Texas.' So whenever a seller sees that, they see the resonation, they know why they're on the page, and as a result, they feel spoken to, which is why the conversion rate, which Google defines as the number of clicks that become a lead, is way higher. Specifically, our landing pages convert around 25 to 30%, while our competitors are around 20 to 30%. So, in tangible terms, we can spend the same amount of money and get three times the amount of leads that are coming in. That gives us so much room to be able to scale and help our clients convert. So, that's the landing page. And the third biggest thing is the, uh, the data tracking, and we stay on top of that. So, we have projections calculator where we, uh, are able to establish our client's baseline metrics. So, what is your cost per MQL? What is your leads contract rate? What is your average assignment fee? What's your cash conversion cycle? And from there, we can sit down and project where their business is going to be at for the next three, six, or even 12 months. And because of that, the client can see and and build their business around that as opposed to just guessing, right? And then we have, for example, offline conversion tracking where every single lead that comes in, their acquisition manager marks which lead is good, which lead isn't. And we manually send this data back to Google to train their AI and their algorithm as to what's working and what's not. Those are the three biggest things that we do that help our clients get the results that they get."

"Yeah, that's really interesting because I feel like the, the data aspect of what you're saying is just super, super strong, like that. And I feel like that's definitely just insane. And if I, I have one other question, like, why"

"PPC? Because as far as I have heard, you know, from everybody out there, PPC is dead. Like that's what people say all the time. So why PPC?"

"So, PPC people that say PPC are dead are just doing it the wrong way. Their way of doing PPC is dead because they're doing the generic old stuff, which is super, super competitive. They're in a red ocean market. It, they're, they're setting themselves up to fail, which is why they say PPC is, uh, is failing because for them, selling Facebook is a lot easier, which is why they sell it. Which is why they say, 'Oh, everybody's switching over to Facebook.' Nobody's switching over to Facebook. People switch from Facebook over to PPC. And if you ask any established operator out there, any established wholesale operator out there, the cream of the crop leads are always PPC leads besides referrals, but when it comes to actual cold outbound marketing or cold marketing in general, uh, cold top of funnel marketing, if you would. So, for us, it boils down to the intent of the seller. For example, if our plumbing breaks, I'm not going to sit on Facebook and scroll until I find a plumbing ad. I'm going to go on Google and search up plumbers near me or how to fix my pipe, and then from there, I'm going to click on an ad and submit my information and I might pay a little bit more because of the convenience of him coming to my house as opposed to going on Facebook. Facebook, from what I've noticed, works really, really well for e-commerce, right? Because these are like impulse buys. I've bought stuff off of Facebook, but when I need to solve a problem or pain point, I either go on YouTube or I go on Google. So, more intent-based marketing platforms."

"Yeah, that, that makes a ton of sense as to why you would want, you know, Google PPC just in general over that because, yeah, I mean, I feel like just everyone I've ever talked to, like Facebook Meta stuff, it's just never, it never is like high quality that you want. Like you're always just getting kind of a a shotgun approach."

"You're getting, you're basically throwing spaghetti at a wall and hoping somebody eats that spaghetti."

"Right? That's Facebook marketing."

"So, if you had to, let's say I'm a wholesale, real estate, you know, seller, buyer. Yeah."

"And I'm only using Facebook right now."

"How would you convince me to switch?"

"Boils down to the numbers. How consistent is it? Number one, right? Because with Facebook, you have to rotate creatives every single week minimum. Agencies are not doing that for their clients. I guarantee it. Right? So, how consistent is their, uh, is their deal flow? What is their lead to contract rate? What is their average assignment fee? Or Google PPC beats this every single day of the week. The lead conversion rate is way higher, and the average assignment fees are bigger because whenever a seller is reaching out to you, they're willing, they have more intent, and because of that, they're willing to sell at a deeper discount, which gives you the investor a bigger assignment fee. You can run Facebook. I'm not saying don't run Facebook, but when it comes to long-term scaling, it's not where you want to be. We run Facebook for our clients, but they're more so a retargeting platform."

"As opposed to top of funnel marketing."

"That makes sense. Could, could you say that again because that's big? The, the fact that they're in a more desperate situation."

"So, sellers with or prospects on Google as a whole, because of the, the psychology of the platform, it is an intent-based marketing platform. So, the people, the traffic, the quality of the traffic, and the psychology, the, the lead is in whenever they search that up, is way higher compared to Facebook. Facebook is a disruptive-based marketing platform. Google and Bing is an intent-based marketing platform, which is why, yes, Google costs more and the quality is better. You pay for what you get. The people that are running Facebook are purely running it because it's cheaper. If they could get the same cheap cost to get $20 leads on Google, they would. But those investors, the biggest reason, the biggest mistake that they have is that they're optimizing around the wrong metric. Investors on Facebook optimize around having the most leads and the lowest cost per lead. The operators on Google, the reason why they know that Google is the better marketing platform and are willing to pay for that premium is because they know the quality is a lot higher. They know that they can feed half the amount of leads to their acquisition managers, and they will close the same if not more than the guy running Facebook, and they're willing to pay for that. I'll give you an example. We have clients in like California, Bay Area, the most competitive market in the entire country, that are paying $700, $800 bucks on the high end. Realistically, ranges around $500 to $600, but on the high end, you could pay $800 a lead. You tell any Facebook operator that, they'll [ __ ] their pants. But the one thing that the Google operator, the Google, the, the wholesaler running Google ads understands that the goo, that the Facebook guy doesn't, is that this guy's optimizing for quality of leads. This guy's optimizing for volume of leads. This is why every single day of the week, the guy running Google ads is going to win. He's okay spending more, and he's optimizing for quality leads as opposed to volume of leads. Because if you want volume of leads, you might as well scrape a list and start cold calling. You'll have all the leads in the world. But the, the established operators, they value their time. They value sales efficiency. They value not having a cluttered CRM full of just [ __ ] leads. And because of that, they're willing to pay for that premium. In business, you're going to pay, pay for quality one way or the other. You're either pay with time, which is sifting through a bunch of leads and wasting your team's time, or you're gonna pay the, the money. You're going to pay the money to get that higher quality lead. It's just how you want to pay. You either have all the time in the world, or you have all the money in the world to, to spend. Another thing with Facebook and optimizing for the volume is that if you have an acquisition team, you're going to burn them out. Because if this guy is just getting beat down every single day, every single conversation, and has to sift through 20, 30 leads to get a single deal, by the time he talks to a qualified lead, the guy's already burned out. So, keeping your acquisitions team happy is the key to keeping, or is the key to scaling your wholesale operation because at the end of the day, wholesaling is just a marketing and a sales game. If you can market and generate better leads than anybody else in your market, you're going to win. If you have a sales team that can convert these leads into contracts better than anyone else in your market, you're going to win. And a caveat that I'll add on to that is a better underwriter because whenever you're able to generate a lead that's higher intent, underwriting is no longer a problem. So, the metric that you don't, uh, that you don't lose on is contract to close. A very common thing, and I have clients that have gone through this with Facebook, is that you'll get a bunch of contracts because you're just locking up everybody, but the contract to close rate is so low because so many deals fall out. The reason why these deals fall out is because by the time the acquisition manager gets to a point where they have somewhat of a seller where they are willing to accept the price, they don't care if it's too high. They'll just take it just to get that contract, just to get that dopamine hit. And then you send it to your dispositions team, that deal falls through, and now everybody's pissed. With PPC, I'm not saying you don't run into that, but you run into it a lot less compared to Facebook."

"So, you're telling me that for just a slight premium, my sales team will be more refreshed, perform better."

"I'm going to have far more high-quality leads."

"And just my, I'm not going to have to sift through a bunch of useless data."

"Exactly."

"Wow. Okay."

"That's the power of Google PPC. The biggest pe, uh, biggest reason people don't want to run Google PPC is two things. Number one, they don't believe in the platform because they, they have some belief. It's too expensive. It's too competitive. Let's break that down. It's too expensive because the, the numbers that you have, the economics of your business, it doesn't work. For example, if we talk about economics, let's just say a competitive market like California. Uh, let's just say your average cost per lead on the highest end, being extremely conservative, is $500. If I know it takes one out of 10 leads to close a deal, that means your cost per deal is what? $5,000. You tell a wholesaler in in Texas or Florida that their acquisition cost is $5,000, they're, they're, they're going to run away. They're scared of that because like, 'Oh, I can have five cold callers instead of just running one marketing channel.' No, why would I do that? But the guy that is spending $5,000 is going to make $30, $40,000 in California back. That's what a 7-8x return for every dollar they put in. They're getting $8 out and they only have to talk to 10 leads to close one deal. Why wouldn't they do that? Why wouldn't you scale that to the moon?"

"That is more scalable."

"And that's where the economics make sense. But the biggest reason if we were to boil down economics why people fail with wholesaling, especially running PPC, is the, their economics make no sense. You might spend $5,000 to get a deal, but if your average assignment fee is only $8,000, you're operating your company on a gross profit of $3,000 bucks. That's terrible."

"Yeah."

"From there, yes, PPC is way too expensive. But if you're getting a above a 5x ROI when it comes to any marketing channel, you're not, the numbers make sense. It's not too expensive. It's just you don't want to spend the money. And until people can get over that hurdle, they'll never be able to scale and be successful with PPC. That's one thing. And the second thing is the operator. The two biggest reasons why people don't do PPC is they don't believe in the platform because the economics is too expensive, or they have a limiting belief around it. And the second thing is the operator because there are, now there are tons of agencies out there that do PPC. So, how do you differentiate who's good and who's bad? As a wholesaler working with an agency for the first time, you don't know. So, you have to go through that trial and error. A bunch of our clients have worked with other agencies, they know what to look for within an agency and what not to look for whenever they're working with an agency. And because of that, they don't, they, they get scared because they're like, 'Oh, I don't want to pay the wrong person.' That's why people don't do PPC. And until they can overcome that and find somebody that actually resonates with them and cares about their business the same way that they do and actually has a track record and a qual, and a proven system behind them, those are the people you should do. Those are the people you should hire to run your PPC."

"So, if you're someone in wholesale real estate and you're thinking about doing PPC."

"And you're not sure who to trust."

"What would your litmus test be?"

"The, so the biggest thing boils down to, have they done it before? Right? And here's what I mean by that. Have they achieved the results that you're looking for in a market like yours that is comparable to yours? Right? Texas and Florida in my eyes are somewhat comparable, right? They're very similar markets, right? What are their, uh, clients look like? What type of clients are they working with? Are they working with newbies, people trying to get their first deal where they're more so a coaching program that just happens to run ads as an upsell? Are they mid-market where they're trying to serve wholesalers doing, uh, one deal a month to maybe five deals a month? Or are they someone like us where they're only looking to work with people doing five deals a month and above and trying to scale like crazy to multiple six figures per month? Work with people, work with agencies where, uh, their clients, their successful clients are where you want to be. So, they have been there and done that. The second thing is understanding their system. Are they just lead gen? Are they just the type of agency to run your ads and call it a day? Or are they going to get nitty in the grids with you? They're going to build the tracking system. They tell you why things are working, what's not working. Were they also consultants on top of the agency? Or are they just, you know, I guess those are the only two things. It's either a guy that just runs ads and and views you as another lead in their system, another client in their system, or a guy/agency that serves as a fractional marketing partner who not only helps you with the marketing but gives you pointers on your sales, on the data tracking, optimizing, building struct, uh, organization, the pod structures in your company in order to scale to different markets."

"Yeah, I feel like if I, based on what you said, I feel like even just talking data first, like here is what we build, here is what we put in place for you."

"We win our clients just off of that."

"Yeah, that's, I feel like that's got to be it."

"The reason why, if, if I were to look at a bunch of our clients and tallied what are the pillars that got them to sign with us, is purely comes down to the level of data that we track. 80% of them don't track anything. I mean, I have clients that are like in their 50s, in their 60s who run their entire company off of a spreadsheet and maybe a legal notepad. It's possible. I mean, you know, there's CRMs that exist now. Um, but if that's, that's what they do, that's what they're used to. So, when we can make simple tweaks, like just adding the right data tracking systems, that way we know where things are at, we have so much potential and so much room to scale because of that. So, simple levers that we can tweak that create the most output."

"So, when you run into somebody like that and let's say they're just like a superstar, like they're killing it with the deals that they're doing, but they don't have that organization in place. Has that happened?"

"Oh, yeah. All the time."

"So, what, what is like your first step? Is there like a process that you have for that?"

"F building out and installing the right, uh, data tracking systems because I can't make a change or s suggest a change and back it up if I don't have data. Like, if a guy's like, 'Hey, should we hire more acquisitions team?' I was like, 'Okay, well, how booked is your acquisition manager? What's your book? What's the acquisition guy's booked ratio?' They're like, 'I don't know.' Well, let's let's figure that out first. If it's above, say, 85%, then yes, you need to hire another acquisition manager. If not, then you don't need to hire another acquisition manager because the consequence of that is now you have two acquisition managers doing nothing and not making enough money. And because of that, they're both going to leave. But we can't make that decision. We can't prove that until we have the numbers behind it. Another common thing, wholesalers will come to me and say, 'Oh, I have a dispositions problem.' Like, 'Okay, well, why do you say that?' Uh, because none of my deals are selling. What percentage of that? They'll be like, '7%.' I'm like, 'Okay, 70% isn't the best, but it's also not the worst. Is it the biggest constraint that's preventing the company from scaling?' Possibly, but is it the biggest one? Probably not. So, we dive deep inside. I, I sit down with the client. I'm like, 'Okay, well, what makes you say that? Like, why is this happening? Are there no buyers in the market, or are they just not accepting your deals?' Oh, they're just not accepting your deals. Why? What is the buyer feedback? Well, I'm not getting buyer feedback. Well, we should probably start off there. We should probably ask our buyers why they don't want to buy our deal. And from there, most of the time, it's always because it's overpriced. Okay. Why is it overpriced? Is it because, uh, disposition did something wrong when it comes to marketing property, or is it acquisitions? Everybody thinks it's a dispositions issue, but who's the one locking it up? It's acquisitions. Acquisitions locked it up too high. And because of that, your contract rate fell down. So you have a disposition metric that, that is being influenced by an acquisition, uh, team member. You don't know that. You don't, you can't fix that until you have the data. So, the first thing for us is getting that data, making sure we have clarity on what the actual constraint is. So, an advantage that we have when it comes to data tracking that I, I love the data. We operate off of the theory of constraints where the biggest lever to help the company scale is the weakest link. For example, whatever you lay out all your numbers, the weakest and lowest number that's out of KPI, that's the constraint. And from there, we know what we need to do on our end based off of our experience of working with dozens of clients over the last six years, what we need to do in order to scale. So, it's establishing the benchmark KPIs and then taking action in order to actually solve those KPIs. And then once we solve that first constraint, then we move on to the next constraint, and we keep on doing it over and over and over again."

"Wow. I feel like that's just such a, a huge resource. That's awesome."

"No other agency does that because they don't even track their clients' KPIs to begin with."

"Well, and, and it seems like you guys have really great knowledge of the space, too. I feel like that's got to be a huge, huge plus as somebody that's actually done deals."

"Wow."

"On top of the agency, what else do you have going on?"

"So, outside of work, uh, I'm trying to get my pilot's license because for me, that has been a lifelong dream for me. Uh, funny enough, going into high school, uh, or almost graduating high school, one of my goals was to become a, uh, an Air Force pilot or fighter pilot, right? Because I was like, 'This is the coolest thing in the world.' Um, and obviously, I didn't do that because business started taking off. So, the only way I can fulfill or get close to that dream now is to, uh, become a pilot, and it's a hobby that gets me out of work. It is something that I care and I love to learn about, and it is absolutely a journey. So, right now I have about 90 hours, uh, for my private pilot's license because there's different ratings. There's, um, there's your private pilot license, or there's your student license, which is what I'm at right now. There's your private pilot license, which is for most people, say, is the hardest one. Then you can get different ratings, right? Okay. So, you can get your instrument rating. Um, then you can also get endorsements. So, you can get your high performance endorsements. So, that's flying planes with over 200 horsepower. Um, you can get your complex endorsements. So, that's flying a plane with like slats, variable pitch propeller, and, um, landing gear, right? So, wheels. Um, you wouldn't believe a lot of insurance issues, claims with planes because are because of the fact that pilots land with their gear up, their landing gear up. Um, and then there's your instrument rate. This is a big one. This is also arguably as hard as private. I don't know, but this is what I've heard. So, when it comes to, uh, getting your pilot's license, you, uh, you, you get your private pilot license, but you're only allowed to fly VFR. VFR stands for visual flight rules. And basically, in simple terms, that means you have to fly under the clouds. You cannot fly into the clouds or above the clouds. That would be IFR. So, IFR is instrument flight rules. Basically, what that means is you are flying based off of your instruments. Because whenever you're flying in a cloud, you get dis, you, you can get spatial disorientation, and because of that, you have 120 seconds to live before you crash a plane. That's, that's a saying in aviation, if you would. So, that requires a lot of training. Um, right now I have 90 hours. Um, finding a good flight school is really, really hard cuz, uh, with most CFIs, certified flight instructors, they get their 1500 hours and they just dip to the airlines. So, for me, I have about 90 hours right now, about, uh, 60 real hours with this new school because I've been bouncing around schools, but now I found a school that I'm with. Um, I, my final requirements are my written exam, um, which studying for that is a pain in the ass. Uh, so, it's a 60-question test. Um, and then completing my three-point cross country, so it's basically flying in a triangle. Each leg is 50 miles solo. And then, uh, going for my check ride. Check ride is basically you get grilled for six hours, three hours he sits down, he's, you're doing an oral, and another hour and a half plus, um, is the actual flight itself. So, I'm working on that right now, and after that, I am going to, um, I'm going to go get my instrument rating as well, and then after that, I want to get my commercial rating. So, a big common thing is that people confuse commercial rating and ATP, airline transport pilot, as two completely different things. Cuz when I say commercial, people think that, 'Oh, you're trying to go to an airlines.' Like, 'No.' Commercial, the reason why I'm getting it, or commercial privileges, I should say, uh, basically just give you the right to get compensated for flying. For example, if a friend wanted to pay me to fly a plane, I could get compensated for it, right? Um, it's basically private pilot with stricter standards when it comes to the maneuvers and law, aviation law, and then I would just be there. And then on top of that, you get 250 hours. Um, so it helps for insurance whenever I plan on buying a plane. My dream is to absolutely own a plane. I'd love to have a turboprop, of all the research I've done. Um, because you get jet-like speeds without jet-like maintenance, right?"

"Um, and cost."

"So, I, I'm working on that right now. It's something that I try to fly, you know, four, three to four hours a week to get."

my license. And then, uh, yeah, so that's what I do outside of work.

And in addition to the agency, I have started investing in companies, right? When I say invested in companies, I've invested in one company and that is as an angel investment. So there is a software in this space where, uh, they are basically, um, sales, it's a sales management/sales, uh, ops platform for, uh, sales industries. So wholesalers, insurance, um, home services, things like that.

So, I invested, I wrote an angel check into that company February. And my thought process behind making that investment was a few things. Number one, I don't think I'll be able to get into an angel investment or a seed round with this low of a barrier. Like the price was pretty realistic and really affordable for me. Um, I had a pretty good relationship with the founder, the guy I'm investing in. I know what he's been able to do. Um, he had the brand, he had the reputation. I got on his podcast. So technically, I already made my investment back. So, tech, so in my eyes, it's a net-free investment. And on top of that, I use my whole life insurance policy to pay for this investment, to fund this investment. So to me, it's truly like a non-risk investment, the way I look at it.

Um, so on top of that, I plan on, you know, um, meeting with founders to possibly, uh, buy companies. That way I can leverage my marketing expertise. And this is obviously what we're talking about where we would travel, meet up with companies to possibly invest in or buy and acquire ourselves. That way we could scale it, roll it up, possibly exit, um, things like that. But that is something I'm incredibly, incredibly excited about.

>> What made you want to get into that?

>> Great question. So, I remember I had a conversation with a guy named Tanner Chitt. He's a super successful entrepreneur and I was fortunate enough. I mean, he's done over 140, 150 million across all of his companies the last few years. And last year I was in Dallas speaking at another event and he had a, uh, a private dinner where he's like, "Hey, if you're an established operator, I'm hosting a free dinner. Come meet me." And his goal was to sell mastermind coaching, etc. I was like, "Cool. I'll just show up." Right? And he's like, "Hey, you guys each have 15 minutes. Ask me anything you want." I was like, "Cool." I told him where I'm at. I was like, "Hey, I'm at this point right now. Um, I want to get to. So, this is how much money I'm making. This is how much money I want to be making. How do I get there?" And he starts picking my business. He's like, "Well, you know, sales not the issue. Clients are happy." I'm like, "Okay, well, what's the issue?" I just, I just didn't know what it was. And he's like, "You're just, you're growing in the wrong boat."

>> Mhm.

>> So, he's like, "You are, you, you're putting 10 out of 10 effort in in a business that's not going to take you to eight figures, nine figures in, in net worth." And I was like, "Okay, why do you say that?" My biggest takeaway after talking to him boils down to two things. The reason why I am not making as much money or or scaling as quickly as I would like is because I am not taking enough risk. And I was like, "What do you mean by that?" He basically said, when you started out in business, you tried everything. You took all this risk. You invested in coaching. You invested in this team member. You invested in the software to try and find something that worked. And because of that, um, you were able to find what works and what doesn't. Now you've been running this agency for so long, you know what works, you don't need to guess. There's not much risk taking. I was like, "Well, that makes sense." And then opportunity vehicle, right? The agency space is great to start off to learn the skill sets. I mean, this is business. I've learned so much about how to become a better operator, how to work with clients, how to build a team, how to manage a team. But it's like, if I want to get into bigger things and make more money, I can just take that skill set, plug into a different vehicle and scale much further.

>> So, to me, that was the biggest reason and biggest thing that prompted me to start to do these other things as well.

>> Would you say that there's like a particular place that you're passionate about? Are you trying to make some sort of vertical integration marketing ecosystem? Are you trying to go in different directions? Like, what do you, what is your motivation there?

>> So, so when it comes to the holding company slash buying the businesses and operating the business, I want to be able to, uh, acquire basically marketing and acquisition constraint businesses that have a great product, that have a great service for their customers, and just use my marketing expertise behind it and just blow it the hell up.

>> And I want to be able to combine that with, say, using my plane. Like my dream is to own that jet and I, I want everything to just work cohesively in one where I use the jet as a vehicle to help me get deals, to help me network, build my brand with, with other people in the industry, right? And almost using my agency as a way to do the marketing for the businesses. So I'm basically building a holding company right now to be able to fund and serve those businesses, which is what I'm really, really excited about.

>> Yeah, that's that's a really >> because I can have the right team. I can have the right systems and processes. But the difference now is that my clients are businesses that I own.

>> Yeah.

>> That I own because of that. Obviously, the benefit's a lot more because when you see like transparently, I, I have clients that pay me the most they pay me is about $5,000 a month right now. So, our services range anywhere from $300 to $5,000 per month. And another reason why clients like us is because we don't hear our, our, our management fee, right? The more money they make or the more money they they spend on ads, we don't increase our management fee. And clients love that because their cost of goods, their cost per acquisition, they're blended, they're loaded CAC, it goes down. So, they love that. Your CFOs love that, especially. So, for me, I will have a client, I have multiple clients right now that are doing 500, 600. I've even had one hit $700,000 a month and I only get paid 3K a month or four, 5K a month. Like, it sucks, but I'm like, if I own the business, I would make a lot more. I'm doing the exact same thing, but now I own the business. Now, yes, you have to put up cash and there's more risks involved, but the benefit is there. So, I'm just taking the same skill set and applying it in a different vehicle.

>> Yeah, that's a really great way to look at it. If outside of making it a cohesive like marketing ecosystem, is there anything like you would want to get into for fun, like aerospace or something like that?

>> Uh, anything for fun? No, it's just flying. Like I have, I have a massive passion for aviation. Like I'm an absolute nerd when it comes to flying and planes. Um, and that's something that I, that makes me really happy.

>> That and traveling. I, I guess I guess you could say like, um, one big thing that I've learned from 2025 is that I, I've isolated myself a lot last year. Like I never went out. I told myself, cuz I'm from Houston, I moved to Austin. Um, I told myself that I would focus a lot on, uh, meeting new people, going out to events, connecting with people at networking events. I didn't do any of that.

>> I just stayed in my bubble, stayed in my apartment. I mean, this is my place, so it's, it's hard to >> It's hard not to.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Um,

>> but for me, I made it a commitment to just travel more this year because there's so much more to the world than just Austin, Texas, and, you know, the capital being behind me. Um, but when I travel, more importantly, travel with friends. It is the best, best experience I've ever had in my life. Like a few weeks ago, I was in Colombia, right? It's not my first time being in Colombia, but it was my best time being in Colombia because I had like-minded friends there with me and we experienced the world, the city, the country together, and that was incredible. So, I'm going to be doing a lot more of that this year and and onwards because the last thing I want is to be too old and never be able to have this youth, have this energy again to do what I love with my friends.

>> So, you had said, you know, you moved from Houston to Austin.

>> Yeah.

>> And and you had just kind of said it was because, you know, you, one of the things you said is you wanted to meet new people and socialize. And what was a the main reason why you wanted to move? Was it that

>> get out of Yeah. Get out of my hometown? Like I have two friends, uh, his name is Naven and Harrison. I remember I met them at a marketing agency event. Uh, this was in 2024, I believe. I met them and on a random Saturday, I stayed in touch with Nathan. He was like, "Hey, you should come out to Austin." Mind you, I'm in Houston, so it's about a four-hour drive. And I was like, "Well, I'm not doing anything." I was like, "Why not? Just come over and meet the boys." And for the first time in my life, I met other guys that were like, like me. That like they they have businesses that are somewhat successful and they look at the world the same way I did. I didn't have that in Houston. I was very alone in Houston, right? And I was like, "Okay, well, I'm definitely moving here because I was thinking about moving to Dallas."

>> Mhm.

>> Right. And they convinced me on Austin because it's so young. I mean, there's water right there. So, it's like the, the Miami of Texas, if you would, without the toxic culture, if you would. So, to me, I was like, "Okay, well, I'm moving here." So, I, I started coming out to Austin like every single month just to hang out with them. And I'm like, I need to move here because of that. They were the reasons that I moved here.

>> Wow.

>> Just being surrounded with really, really good people.

>> What's one of the other things that you like about Austin and maybe something that you're like, kind of missing from Houston?

>> What do I miss about Houston?

>> Yeah.

>> It's just the nostalgic side. So, I went back to Houston, um, December of last year, just like a homecoming trip. And it felt good seeing like the apartment that I used to live in because I remember the apartment I stayed at, it was, it was in downtown near Discovery Green, which is that big park. And I remember before I moved into my apartment, that was like the newest building. It was just under construction or just finished construction. And I was like, "This is the build. Like, this is my dream apartment." And I would, every Sunday before I moved in, I, before I even signed the lease or anything, it was just manifesting it. I would, um, I would sit at the park and just stare at that building and just see myself living there. And I would tour, I, I've toured that building like six times. It was ridiculous. I mean, the agents like knew me by name.

>> So, I eventually remember moving in there. I remember signing that lease, moving in for the first time, and I'm like, "Wow, this is what it's like to live alone. Like, this is incredible."

>> Mhm.

>> And that's when like the agency, like you thought my agency scaled when I stopped going to school. Like we, I think we 3x, we tripled >> when I moved into that apartment. And to me, that was that was absolutely surreal. Um, so going back to that apartment to sit in that same spot, stare at the building, it was very, very nostalgic for me.

>> That's cool.

>> So, yeah.

>> And >> that's the only thing I miss about. I don't miss anything else. The socks.

>> It's humid, man. It's really humid there.

>> Sucks. It's, it's too big. I mean, it's, yeah, I don't like it.

>> What's one of the things besides your friend group and the people you know out here that you really have enjoyed about Austin?

>> The culture. Like, everybody's so young and everybody's so focused on like bettering themselves. There's not me, there's not much corporate people.

>> Um, like, yes, it's, you know, it's, it's becoming more corporate because like all these big tech giants are coming here, but I don't care about them. But like, I got UT Austin right there. Like I'm 21. My friends live there. Like I hang out there all the time. Like that, that's great. Like I love being around young people just like me as opposed to everybody that I talk to is like 40, 50 years old.

>> Yeah.

>> So that to me is a big thing.

>> Yeah. I feel like you mentioned Miami earlier and one of the things that I thought was funny cuz you're like, it's like Miami except it's not like toxic culture. Coming from California to Austin, I noticed the same thing. It's like, wow, this is, I mean, people here are just nice.

>> Yep. 100%.

>> And I, that's one thing I really appreciate about it as well. you in 5 years.

>> Mhm.

>> As a pilot, as a founder, and as an investor, where do you see yourself?

>> So, I'll start with the personal first because that's easy. Um, I've made it my goal by 25 to own a jet. Like, I've ran the numbers. I know what my life needs to look like. I know how much money I need to make. I need, I know what my life looks like professionally in order to own a jet. And everyone's like, "Oh, jet maintenance and stuff." I was like, "Okay, the question I asked him is, "Hey, if money was not a problem, would you own the jet?" They'd say yes. I was like, "Cool." So, it's just a money prop. Make more money, right? Anyways, so I, I see myself owning a jet. I have a little Gulf Stream thing. It's not going to be a Gold Stream. It's going to be a turbo prop, but it's nice to have that. Um, so I know, I know for a fact I'm going to own a jet and I'm going to maximize the hell out of it and fly 200, 300 hours in order to build the life that I want professionally. The, I'm still going to have an agency. Now, am I only going to be working with wholesalers? Maybe. I don't know. Um, but I know that that agency is going to serve as a foundation block for the companies that I own. I know I'm going to have more angel investments. I know I'm going to be flying to San Francisco, to Nashville, to Dallas, to Florida, multiple times a week, every single week in order to meet founders to possibly invest in their businesses. Um, but also I'm going to have a portfolio of companies that I own and I operate or have an operator in place that is really scaling that. That's on the professional side and I envision with the help of you building a brand to make that all happen. Speaking on events every single week. Like I want to use that jet to the absolute limit. That's what my life look like. I know exactly what that looks like. I know exactly what we need to do, the action steps, action items that we need to do on a daily basis to get us closer to that >> one personal goal.

>> That maybe you don't give a lot of thought to.

>> Okay.

>> Maybe it's just working out more. It could be anything. What, what would that be to get better at in the next year or just to to hit?

>> So, a personal goal or like? So,

>> a personal goal could be fitness, could be maybe I want to play soccer again, could be something like that. It would definitely be get all my ratings for flying. Like that, that is a goal for me. My goal is to get my private pilot license this year, my instrument rating, and start on my commercial this year.

>> Like that, that, that is on the goals list for this year. Um, everything else I have something I call the superhuman protocol. I stole it from Joe Rogan. It basically boils down to sleep, early wake up times, diet, and fitness.

>> I mean, I play soccer, you know, every weekend for the most part. Um, I'm pretty active. Uh, my diet, I eat whole foods mostly on the weekdays. On weekends, like I'll go eat sushi, I'll go eat tacos or something with my friends. Um, sleep. I try to sleep at around 10 to 12:00, uh, every single night. It's closer to 12 because I've been working so late. Um, and then wake up. I try to wake up before 8 o'clock and that's worked for