Transcription
All right, what's going on everybody? We are back with another high-ticket sales roleplay. And today we're going to have Dr. Robin, who runs a Cairo business, playing the closer. So he's going to be closing someone on getting their health issues fixed that a chiropractor can take care of. We then have Chris, who's going to play the prospect for us. And through this time, we're going to go through the entire discovery, beginning to end, so that you, as a high-ticket closer, can see some of the common pitfalls that you're probably making and that most probably you don't even know that you're making. Cuz like the saying goes, you don't know what you don't know. And if you are making mistakes through the discovery, that is why you are losing sales that you should be making; that is why you're getting objections; that's why you're having to spend time doing follow-up; and that is why you're not making the money that you truly would like to be making. So without any further ado, let's crack in. Dr. Robin, whenever you're ready, kick us off with your opening question.
So Chris, what would you say, in your opinion, is the biggest challenge that you're having to deal with because of your body right now?
I would say the biggest challenge for me right now would be, uh, I get sharp pains in my back, especially when I'm trying to work out. And recently, over the last 6 months, I've wanted to go pretty intense with my training and and and overall health, and I just feel like I can't perform at the level that I want to in my workouts, uh, especially on leg day.
Especially on leg day, you said?
Correct.
Yeah, got it. Okay, so you're getting this sharp pain in your back, especially when you're working out for the past six months, and particularly when you're doing your leg day, is that correct?
That's correct. I'm doing squats.
Yeah. Okay. And how many days in the past seven… be very careful when you're doing the summary, because he slightly said something different to… it's when I've been doing my workouts over the last 6 months. He said something slightly different to that. Do you know what he actually said?
Oh, I've been working harder in the past six months. If if I understood correctly, I think he said… yes, he has been working harder, but that he's been wanting to go harder for the last six months. In other words, something shifted six months ago, and whatever's going on with his life right now, he wants to work harder and he can't perform at the level in his workouts, especially his leg day, that he wants to. It's slight different wording, and it's slight nuances, but it shows the prospect that you're listening. So you said, you know, for the last six months you've not been able to work as hard and perform as well for leg day. That is true, but you're missing the nuance, which is, I heard you, Chris, and I understand that something shifted six months ago that you want to work out harder. Do you understand the slight difference?
Yeah.
So just be careful when you get your summaries right, guys, because I've said it before and I will repeat it: every little inaccuracy you make in listening to the prospect and hearing and understanding them, the prospect picks up on those things, consciously or unconsciously, and the trust level just slowly diminishes. And it makes it harder to close the call because you're pushing a boulder uphill because you're now not only trying to get the information you need the prospect to share, but you're trying to get them to want to share the information with you, as they're perceiving you as not quite getting it on the mark. Does that make sense? So it's really important that you get your summaries correct. All right, keep going.
So Chris, how many days in the last week have you noticed some level of back pain?
I would say, uh, anywhere from… well, it's it's the worst when it's on on leg days, and I'm I'm trying to train at least once or twice a week, um, but it does, you know, stiffen up sometimes if I'm walking around the house or or doing any type of activity as well.
Okay. And what does it feel like when it's at its worst, exactly?
It it feels the worst when I'm doing uh squ… heavy squats. Uh, I feel like a sharp pain in my my lower back.
Okay, so it feels like it's sharp at its worst when you do the squats, right?
Okay. How many times a week do you do the the leg day? Uh, what… once or twice a week, and then I'll usually do squats uh once a week.
Okay, so you do squats on one day, and you're also training the legs on another day, but not doing squats, is that correct?
Yeah, that's correct. So I I usually do like a a quad focus on one, hamstring focus on the other leg day.
Okay. And do you get the sharp back pain when you only… when you squat, or when you do legs in general?
Uh, certain certain leg movements, yeah. Like if I'm doing… especially squats, but if I'm doing lunges sometimes I could feel it in my lower back as well. Um, if I'm doing any type of deadlift movement, I sometimes get a a sharp sharp pain as well.
Okay, so you told me that you basically do some kind of leg workout one to two times per week, and you told me as well that you want… you've been wanting to do more. How many times a week do you want to be doing some kind of leg workout?
I wouldn't say I want to be doing more, I just want to be able to perform at a higher level where I could squat heavier without getting the pain.
Okay. And how heavy… how heavy can you lift right now where it starts to get sharp and painful?
Uh, right now my max squat is uh… I'm not doing anything higher than 315, but at at that level of weight it it really starts to get a sharp pain, so I've been tapering off on the weight.
Got it. Oh, so you have… you've had to taper back because of the sharp pain?
Yeah, that's correct.
Yeah. Okay, so 315 is your like one rep max because of the pain?
Correct.
Yeah. No, sorry, not not one rep max, that's uh for sets of five.
Yeah, got it. Josh… yeah, another thing to be careful of is when we're gathering data, we don't want to be gathering generalizations of data. For example, at the moment you're asking him kind of, you know, how often do you squat, how often do you train legs? It's kind of a general… usually I do blank blank blank. It's much more powerful, as far as getting someone into pain, if we talk about specific moments. So instead of saying how many times… you didn't phrase it like this, but how many times in general do you do… you work out, and he says three times a week. Okay, how many times do you do legs? Two times… two times a week. What exercises do you usually do? Squats, lunges… whilst that data is going to be the same data as what I'm going to show you in a minute, the way the prospect is remembering the information is a generalization. So what I would have said is, when did you last train legs? Oh, 3 days ago. Okay. And when uh… in the last week, how many other times did you train legs? Oh, one other time. Okay, got it. So in the last week you trained your legs twice. What did you do the last time you trained legs? Oh, I did squats. Okay. What did you do the time before? I did lunges. And between those two times, how many times were you in pain? Oh, on this time… on this time… so now he's having to zoom in on a memory of a very specific thing that was happening rather than just telling you generally, I train three times a week, generally I do squats two times a week. Whilst the information is the same, the prospect is detached from having to relive the memory because it's almost third person; they're saying, "Oh my… my routine is this." As opposed to, "I went and did blank." And when someone's phrasing things in the first person, they're actually in their mind; they're walking back through that experience, and it's going through those experiences that people's state changes. Cuz remember, we're not gathering information to write it down on a piece of paper or for the prospect to write it down on a piece of paper; we're gathering the information cuz it should be changing the state of the prospect. When he's saying, "Oh, you know, usually I train two times a week and I do legs two times a week," he he's not changing his state; he's just telling you information. Whereas when he says, "Oh yeah, 3 days ago I was in the gym and I train legs and I was doing lunges and I got this sharp back pain," as he's telling you that story, he's getting frustrated, he's getting annoyed with the fact that he had that experience. Does that make sense? Yeah. So be careful that you're not trying to get generalizations, but you're getting spec… specific things. Okay, that's why if we were doing lead gen… you wouldn't say, "Oh, you know, usually how many leads do you get?" Well, usually I get 200. No, no, no… last week how many leads did you get? Oh, I got 20 leads last week. Oh, okay. And then they feel [ __ ] and they don't like that. Yeah. So just be careful with that. All right, keep going.
Got it. So Chris, um, when… when did you last train legs?
Uh, it would be on Wednesday.
Yes, so a couple days ago.
Okay, a couple days ago. And did you… did you get that sharp back pain then?
I did.
So another thing… perfectly fine, you can say that… one way to lead the conversation using more detachment is you can ask more generalized questions that actually makes the prospect want to open up more because it doesn't feel like you're leading. So if you say, "Did you get that back pain?" It can kind of feel like you're looking for the information, whereas if you say, "Okay, when did you last train legs?" On Wednesday. Okay. And how did it go? Oh man, I got this…ing sharp pain down my leg. Now they're the ones coming to you with the information as opposed to you trying to kind of maneuver the conversation to pick up the things that you want. And it it can start feeling too interrogatory, and prospects will back off. So remember, you're just curious. Whereas if you're going through a sales process, even if you're going scriptless, if you say, "Oh, did you get pain?" It feels like you're not coming from a place of curiosity; you're looking for the information you're trying to get as opposed to, "Okay, you trained on Wednesday, how did it go?" "Oh, dude, it was shit." "Oh, really? What happened?" "Oh, I got the sharp pain… where did you get the pain?" Scale of 1 to 10, how bad was it? It's more conversational, and it it it feels like… well, that's going to be slower to get the information that I want, but you've got to understand that if you're having a real conversation with people that's very open-ended, for the prospect to say whatever they want, they will offer you up the most relevant information, and it will genuinely be what matters. If you try and lead the conversation certain ways because of your agenda, you can miss things that they were going to say because you're you're kind of like maneuvering down this road where actually, as you were driving down the road, there was a giant thing out the window and you're like, "Oh [ __ ] I wouldn't have even noticed that." Does that make sense?
Yeah.
All right, let's try that. All right, so Chris, when you train on Wednesday, how'd it go?
You know, it was going well until I did the squats… until I started putting on the plates, and I started to notice the the the heavy, you know, sharp pains that I had to dial it back. I actually stopped my workout uh because of it.
Got it. And like that sharp pain that stopped you… like, scale of 1 to 10, where did it get to at its peak?
I would say it was about a seven or eight.
Yeah. So again, not really a relevant question in that context. Why not? Cuz he told me that he had to stop. So that was bad enough, and I've got… like that's kind of the data I need rather than a number.
Beautiful. Exactly. It's like he…ing stopped his workout. So do… do you need to know whether it was a 6.5 or a nine? It's like… what matters to this prospect? He wants to train more intensely for whatever the reason is over the last six months, and he's having to stop his workouts. So scale of 1 to 10, it's like… it's a redundant question. You… it it's kind of like, you know, someone saying, "Oh, I'm broke." And you say, "Well, how much money have you got?" It's like, "Well, they've already just told you they're broke, so clearly not enough." Right. So what I would have said… in fact, I'm going to see if you can figure it out… given the fact that he had to stop his workout, what question could you have asked instead that would have given us more clarity on how bad of a situation this is?
I could ask how… how did that particular workout compare to his other workouts previously?
Pretty much, yeah. I would have phrased it slightly different, but I think we're getting the same data. I would have said, "How far into your leg workout did you have to stop?" Because if he says, "Oh, well, I… I built up my weights to my working sets, and I literally did one rep of my first set of working weights and I had to stop." Okay, so you basically didn't do any of your leg workout; you did not stimulate the muscle; you didn't train the muscle; didn't do what you needed to do because the sharp pain came as soon as you put three plates on and you went to do your first rep and you're like… "Oh…" So that question is going to tell me more of the impact on this guy's life than… was it a scale of 1 to 10? Well, he had to stop the workout, but it's very different as far as the severity if I say, "How soon into the workout did you have to stop?" And he says… and this would probably be more leaning towards an unsell if we don't get another chair… leg… oh, well, you know, it's not that bad; I did, you know, normally I do five sets of five reps at 315, and I was on my fourth set on the fourth rep and I got a back… I got a twinge back pain, so I stopped. Okay, so you basically finished the whole workout. Then my next curiosity would be like, well, why is this an issue then? You're you're you're basically doing your workout… you see how that one question allows us to see what's really the issue here? Does that make sense?
Okay.
All right, keep going.
Okay. So you had the heavy… the sharp pain, and you had to stop and dial it back and then stop that workout. How far into that leg workout did you get before that happened? You had to stop…
Mhm. So I… I was doing my squats on the the third exercise, yeah. So I'd be about halfway into my workout.
Okay. And then was that the end of the whole workout?
Yeah, I… I the the pain was too… too sharp; I just dialed it back and uh did the sauna for a bit and then went home.
Okay. Okay, so you had to… you only did half of your leg session that day?
Yeah, that's correct.
Okay. And how does that… that particular workout compare to the other leg workouts that… like the previous few ones you've done?
Yeah, so again redundant. I mean, it was 50% of the workout; we've… we've got that information. How does it compare? Well, was 50% of the workout… what I would… I want to know like… if… if like… is that every time he does his leg workout he only gets 50% or does he…
Okay. So you're… Okay. So you… Okay. Slightly easier to understand way of phrasing it would be, how many times has this happened? It's just a simpler way for someone to wrap their head around what you're asking, because even I thought you were asking something different. I thought you were asking like… what… what results would this workout give you compared to a 100% workout? Well, 50%, because it was a 50% workout, although that's not actually accurate, which is why a question that I would want to ask in the prospect's mind… how did the… whatever he's training for… the stimulation of the muscle compare if he finished his workout 50% of the way through compared to completing it? Because I think we can all agree, if any of us exercise, it's not 50% of the stimulation, cuz it's like… well, your muscles are probably only going to have any reason to grow once you've really pushed them to the limit, which means, you know, if… if you do 50% of the workout, it's not like, oh, the growth will be 50%; no, it will be zero cuz you didn't actually stimulate the muscle. So… but that's something I want the prospect to have to say to me, but your question is valid, but I would have just phrased it as… Okay, and how many times have you had to stop your workout halfway through? If not, you know, similar to that… oh, it's the seventh time it's happened. Oh, okay. Right. So where you're going is correct, but the way you phrase the question would have been… well, I got confused, so some prospects may have been a bit confused.
Okay. All right.
Okay. And Chris, how many times has that happened where you've had to stop your workout early because of this pain in your back?
So over the last two months, it it's gotten a bit worse. I… I would say maybe that… that would be the third time over the last two months.
Okay. And it's gotten worse… how specifically?
Just the… the… the sharpness of the pain right when I'm doing heavier squats, uh, because I've been trying to go harder on my squats recently over the last two months.
Okay. So like two months ago, when you started doing… when you started feeling the sharp pain… 1 to 10, how bad was that, do you think? How sharp was it?
I would say two months ago was about a a five or a six, and now it's definitely at a seven or an eight.
Yeah. Okay. Think… think of the prospect avatar as well, Dr. Robin. We're not selling this guy what you would sell to someone that is coming to you because they're in severe pain. What are we actually selling this guy at the moment based on what he's told us?
Well, the ability to do 100% of his leg workouts.
Correct. So if you're selling someone that's coming into you… into your practice saying, "Dr. Robin, I'm in so much pain," scale of 1 to 10, how bad is the pain is a very relevant question. This guy doesn't give a [ __ ] about the fact he's in pain. I mean, look at him; he probably like, "Oh, it's, you know, I'll just work through it…" What matters is he's like, "I'm having to not be able to do my workouts now, and this is pissing me off." So scale of 1 to 10, how bad is the pain? It's ironically… it's not putting the prospect in pain that question; what is putting the prospect in pain is how many of your workouts have you not been able to complete in the last two months.
Okay. Makes sense.
And what impact on your muscle gains or your your fitness goals has that had on you?
Oh, my body's getting worse; my endurance is getting worse… blah blah blah blah blah.
Okay. Makes total sense. And you mentioned six months ago you've actually wanted to go harder at this… why?
Well, six months ago… and this is slightly accurate to Chris's situation, but I'm changing the context so bear with me, Chris… oh, my girlfriend and I broke up, and then now, you know, she broke up with me because I wasn't big enough or jacked enough or whatever… and you get into all of that stuff. And that's why this matters to this guy, not… "I'm in severe pain." You see how… and this is why it's scriptless versus scripts… the script would have had the same questions for every prospect… Oh, you're in pain? Scale of 1 to 10, how much pain? Well, for a prospect that's coming in to see you because they're in pain and they don't want to be in pain, that's a beautiful question. But for someone that's, you know, looks like Chris… bodybuilder… he's like, "Fuck it, no pain, no gain, but I can't do my workouts." And that's annoying, and I don't want to not be able to do my workouts. So the… the same question would have a a massive impact on one prospect, and not only would have zero impact on the other prospect, but if you do use questions that are relevant two or three times… boom… the prospect will shut down, no matter what else you do in the call; they won't buy from you because they don't trust you as an expert because you're asking questions that they're like… why are you asking me scale of 1 to 10 how much pain I'm in? Do I look like I give a [ __ ] that I'm in pain? I give a [ __ ] that I can't do my leg workout, so why are you not asking me about my leg workout and the fact that it's affecting my gains and the fact that that's affecting whatever the reason is… he wants those results. You see how you have to be switched on enough to know… who am I talking to? Why does this matter to them? How do I dig into what matters to them by my choice of questions, which is the whole premise of why you can't sell with a script if you want to be a master closer, because you have to choose different questions. So if the questions are pre-written for you, how are you choosing different questions for different prospects? You're not; you're just asking the same thing to everyone. Does that make sense?
Okay.
All right, keep going.
All right. What… sorry, one more thing… after the call… Dr. key thing for you to write down for your training manual for your guys is that… cuz that's a really good example of like… prospect that comes into the practice that's in pain… ask questions around the pain… prospect that comes into the practice that is not bothered about the fact they're in pain… they're bothered about the fact of the immobility or lack of activity that they can do because of the pain, not that they're like, "Oh, I can't sleep at night cuz I'm in pain and it hurts and fix me." And so it's a good clear example for when you're training your guys of like… you have to understand what prospect you're talking to. Yeah, you know, you'll get an old lady… she comes in, "Oh, I'm in so much pain." It's a very different prospect to a 20-year-old bodybuilder that's like, "Oh, I'm getting twinging in my back so I can't do my leg workouts." Ah, okay. Well, that's going to annoy this guy because he likes doing his workouts and being in great shape. Yeah. So it's a good example for training your team. That's great. Awesome.
All right. And so Chris, you mentioned over the past two months this has gotten worse to the point where you've had to stop three times because of sharp pain in your back with your leg workouts where you could only do up to 50%, is that correct?
That is correct.
Yeah, got it. And why is this… you know… what… what are some of your health goals? What are you training towards that is so bothersome for you?
Mhm. So I used to do uh bodybuilding, and then I've recently… over the last six months I've wanted to get back into it. A big goal for me was to actually… I… I wanted to start um getting into bodybuilding competitions, um, but now with the severe back pain, it it stops my ability to actually be able to train at the level I can to compete.
Got it. And you said he used to bodybuild… how come you stopped that previous time?
Just with work… um… life in general; it was taking up too much time. But now that I've… I'm doing sales now, and I have more time and freedom to do what I want, I… I want to get back into it.
Okay, so you've got more freedom from your work now, so you can train and get back into it, but you currently don't have the freedom because your body won't allow you to train to the ability where you need to compete?
That is correct.
Yeah. Okay. So how much longer are you willing to let this back pain get in the way of you not being able to compete and be… get back to being a bodybuilder so you can have freedom in your body and freedom in your work?
Beautiful, but a bit premature.
Yeah. No, so I couldn't hold…
That one back you need to stack a few questions before that. So, if you didn't ask that question, what would be because what you said as far as the framing of, like, okay, so you got the time freedom, you got the financial freedom, but you don't have the body freedom. What would be the next most powerful question to ask after that based on what you just said? Okay, so you don't have the work freedom, you you do have the work freedom, you don't have the body freedom. Why exactly do you want to get back to bodybuilding? Like, why don't you just double down on your work and get more freedom there? Could could have asked that. I would have. I would have just said, "How does that feel?"
Like, okay, so you've so previously you didn't have the time freedom or the financial freedom, so you couldn't bodybuild, and it seems like you you couldn't ever consider competitive bodybuilding. You've now got the time freedom; you've now got the financial freedom, and so you want to get into competitive bodybuilding, but your body isn't allowing you to do that. How does that make you feel? It it doesn't feel great at all. You know, I want to be able to compete, and I want to actually pursue these goals, and I feel like I can't now with these sharp pains. So it doesn't feel good at all. What about not being able to train and compete? Doesn't feel good. I'm 29 now, and I know that these are probably some of my best years in terms of training and and muscle development. So not being able to do that, uh, it's like a ticking clock.
Makes sense. All right, so see that that if you didn't ask how does it feel, you wouldn't have got, you know, it's annoying most of you that did ask that question when he said, oh, it doesn't feel good, would have stopped there. I'm like, why doesn't it feel good? And now we've gone from pain, which is it doesn't feel good, to time urgency. Well, it doesn't feel good because of a ticking time. Oh, okay. So [ __ ] you've just given me a double whammy. You've given me pain and urgency only because I went deeper. Does that make sense? One other question that we've missed, and I'll give it to you so we can jump back into the role play and see where it goes from here, is now he's got the time and he's got the the money as well. Why does he want to go com competitive? Like, why why not just you know be a a very accomplished amateur bodybuilder that just looks great for the beach? Why why does he want to be competing?
Yeah, that's another thing I would have asked, and we still haven't got to. Not that it matters; I'm not saying it's in the wrong order. It doesn't matter, but we do need to cover what shifted six months ago. What was actually the thing that changed six months ago? All right, so jump back in wherever you want to go from um, but we're we're getting to the money now; we're getting into some deeper stuff now. The other thing is everything that we've done up until now just gets you to the real conversation. Like, thus far we've had a data gathering, you know, got what we needed for data, but we haven't had any real conversation yet. You you know, because the vibe will feel different because, as I've said on a previous training, you'll start getting into individualized information. It's very generic: fit guy has pain, can't work out, right? That's that's a bazillion of your avatars, Dr. Robin, but what about this guy personally? I said it on a previous training: if you treat your prospects like a commodity, they'll treat you like a commodity. So everything that we've done up until now is to get to the moment where you are going to know who is Chris, what's going on in his life that makes this a priority, what's really bothering him, and it's going to be a one-on-one conversation. We haven't quite got to that yet, but that's when you make the sale. When someone when someone feels that you get them and you care about them enough that they don't even consider shopping around or asking their wife or needing to think about it because they're like, "Man, this person's it's the law of reciprocity, this person's actually invested the time to truly get under my skin and find out who I am. I'm going to buy from them."
Sales is not logical, of like, "Oh, they loved the pitch, and the price was good, and you know we had a good discovery." It's like, no, no, no, it's illogical. There's a there's a book by I think it's called Dan Ariely; it's called Predictably Irrational, and it's like that's human beings. Like, the only thing predictable about human beings is that they're irrational. In other words, they'll give you their credit card and give you a lot of money just because they like you. It's not a very rational buying decision, but that's actually how people buy. They like you because they felt like you understood them more than the logic of the offer. Yeah, it's like that's why people put in VSSL's, you know, a fast car and a bunch of hot girls, and the people actually buy the program more because they're like, "Oh, I like his car." Subconsciously, consciously they're not aware of that, but the actual reason that they buy your [ __ ] is deep subliminal messages that are very irrational. The thing with a sales call because it's a one-on-one conversation, we can actually orchestrate those deep subliminal messages just by going deeper in your conversation. You don't need to have a a mansion behind you, although those things also help, which is why I've got a video for you guys called the professional look. At Chris's background, you hop on a call with Chris, and you're like, "Yeah, I kind of already want to buy from him because he looks like a badass." That's subliminal, and it happens within the first two [ __ ] seconds. So you combine having the right background, dressing the right way, having the right energy, plus going deeper in your conversation, and that's how you start stacking deals, and people buy more because of all of that stuff than your pitch or the price. Okay. All right, keep going, Dr. Robin. Good stuff. Got it.
So, Chris, you've already been a bodybuilder. Sounds like an accomplished one, too. Why is it now that you actually want to start competing again? Why don't you just rock and roll and get your body looking good for the for the beach? Looks like you're in a sunny place. Mhm. The the truth is, I I think when I started my bodybuilding journey when I was in my younger 20s, I don't think I was ready for that level of commitment and disciplined. I think when I was younger was, you know, I got down to about 11 weeks out. I was very lean; I was in contest prep ready shape, but I just couldn't keep doing it at the time, right? I was I was bartending; I was working four different jobs, running around, and also, you know, there was always these temptations to to go with friends. Long story short, I never ended up falling through all the way. Um, I got to like 8 weeks out and just stopped, uh, cuz I couldn't do anymore. And and now that I'm in a better position financially, in a better mindset and state, I feel like I'm ready to actually get back into bodybuilding, um, but I feel like this sharp pain and hindering is not allowing me to actually go into it full steam and actually be able to compete.
Got it. So you had you were doing good with your training, but just because of the period of life you were in, you weren't able to get it over the line and actually accomplish your potential as a bodybuilder. And it sounds like you actually had to go move that from that life of working at a bar into sales so that you could get the freedom to actually fully accomplish and train with the discipline that you needed. But now, like that that not being able to accomplish what you wanted to there with the bodybuilding, why exactly is that so important to you to return to now that you have the time and the money to have the discipline that you need to do that? All right, pause. I'm so glad you asked that. If you hadn't have asked that, you would have not got into the real emotion, the real because when you asked him, you know, okay, basically, why do you want to do this, he didn't actually answer the question, and he said, "Well, I had a go at it when I was younger, and I didn't get to finish it." When he stopped, I was watching Chris, and obviously he's playing a prospect, but usually the prospects are fairly realistic. I was like, he's still not fired up; like, he hasn't actually dug his heels into why this is important. That question that you just asked there, Dr. Robin, and and I want you to see, no, I want you to feel how that felt to ask that question and how it feels to get whatever response we get from Chris. Those are the questions that make the sale. So well done. That was a beautiful question. Not not going, okay, I got what I needed. It's like you're like, so like, so what? Why? I still don't get it. Why do you need to do this? Like, that's we still haven't got to it, and so you're you're not letting him off easily. You keep keeping on, in which is what makes a sale. So well done. All right, keep going. Grace, you want to answer that? The question was why why is this so important now? Yeah, re-ask the question just so we can get back into it. So I know you said that you haven't able to accomplish what you want to do in the bo bodybuilding because of the lifestyle at the time, and now that you've got a new lifestyle and you have the discipline to able to train, like, why do you want to accomplish what you were unable to accomplish previously? Why do you want to do that now? Mhm. Okay, pause. Perfect question. Just flip it because remember what we're selling someone is not why do you want to accomplish it; that's future pacing. We're selling them the fact that they currently haven't accomplished it and what's bothering them about that. So it it's very subtle, but it's not. Okay, so you haven't accomplished it. Why do you want to accomplish it? Oh, I want to accomplish it for this reason and that reason and blah blah blah blah blah and fairy tales and whatever. No, no, no. So why are you not willing to never be competitive a competitive bodybuilder? It's why are you not willing to never accomplish this rather than why do you want to accomplish it? Does that make sense? It it's so subtly different, but it it's like if we gave it into a dating offer, it's like it's not why do you want to find a girl and get married? It's why are you not willing to be in a position where you'll never find the right girl and get married? We're we're selling the pain of the situation they're in, never being resolved, rather than selling the dream if it was resolved. You don't sell the dream because the dream is hypothetical and artificial and assumptive, and nobody knows what it's going to feel like anyway. What they do know is they currently feel the pain of I haven't accomplished this, and I'm never going to be able to accomplish this unless I change something. We have to sell them out of or sorry, we're selling them the relief of the pain that they're already in. We're not selling them how it's going to feel when they're in the future position. Yeah, so flip the question just slightly, and it will have such a bigger impact. So do it again. Okay, so Chris, why are you willing to not not compete? You say you you've already tried to compete, but you couldn't finish it off. Why will you not just not compete and just bodybuild for the beach?
It's a great question. Uh, I would say, you know, when I was younger, I always was, you know, I I idolized people like Arnold Schwarzenegger and all these bodybuilders, and I always wanted to step on stage. I thought that was something that I really wanted to accomplish since I was young. And to not be able to do that when I was 20 because of my lifestyle choices, and I just don't want to be in a position where I never got to fulfill that dream. Okay. Have you have you been on a stage in a bodybuilding context yet? No. And idolizing all of those bodybuilders, like, why why is that exactly such a life goal for you to do? It's just it's it's always been something that I've wanted to strive for, and I've always wanted to push my body to the limits, and you know people always would tell me that I had good genetics, and you know I'd be great on stage, and I just wanted to be in a position where I could prove to myself that I could win a competition.
Noticed that he just changed something, by the way. We were talking about doing a competition. What did he just say at the end there? Winning competition. Yeah, he doesn't he doesn't give a about doing the competition; he wants to win the competition, which ties into one of I think it was maybe Jordan's question or someone else, which is is this going to be possible if you don't fix the pain? So we're we're we're almost at the end of the call now because like I've got a lifelong dream that I've never fulfilled, and I'm never going to be able to fulfill it, which is stepping on stage and winning unless I can push myself to perform at a high enough intensity during my workouts and specifically at the moment during my leg workouts. So we've we've kind of connected almost all of the dots now, but you know how it's gone from, you know, oh, do you, which I know we we covered it, but do you want to relieve yourself from the scale of 1 to 10 of pain that you're in? Like, that wouldn't have sold him. Do you want to relieve yourself of the fact that you know you can't do your workouts? That wouldn't have sold him. Do you want to relieve yourself of the fact that you have a lifelong dream that hasn't been fulfilled that will never be fulfilled guaranteed unless you fix the pain? You see how we've gone three layers deeper into what we're actually selling this guy? We're not selling him pain relief; we're not selling him being able to do his workouts; we're selling him having a dream that he knows he's never going to fulfill, and how much longer is he willing to be in a position where his dream is guaranteed to not only never be fulfilled, but he is on a ticking timer every single day because he wants to step on stage, and he wants to win, and he knows that he has a time limit as far as genetics and age to be able to do that. You you've pretty much sold him by this point. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. Right. So keep going from there.
Okay. You said you haven't been on the stage before, and you got to I think it was eight weeks out from the competition, is is that right? Previously. That's correct. So how much more work does your body need to actually be in the position where it can be on the stage to compete and win the competition compared to where you are now? Mhm. Well, I think my biggest weakness is my is is my quads, right? And the ability to not be able to train leg day at the full capacity is really stopping me from actually stepping on stage or at least getting to compete and win. I guess I mean, like, even if we were to solve this back pain tomorrow and you can train 100% with your back and the legs, like, how much time do you actually have left before you can get your body to that level and then step on the stage and then win, be in a position where you win? M. Well, if I can get to 100%, I could I could train for six months and be stage ready. Okay. So by resolving the back pain, you'll be six months away from stage ready. And how many years do you think you actually have left in your tank even if you got fixed tomorrow before you actually capable your body is capable of winning, doing the same thing again? We're talking about the hypothetical future. Look at the difference if I say, okay, so you're six months away if you get the pain fixed. How far away if you don't get it fixed? M. That's the actual situation he is in, not the okay, so if we do get it fixed, you're six months away. Well, it's not fixed; he's not in that position right now. We need him to realize the severity of his current situation and the consequences of his current situation, and is he willing to stay in that current situation and pay the price, not the benefit of the future. Oh, how many weeks or months or years away are you if we fix the pain? Oh, that that'd be great; that'd be like six months. Okay, cool. Give me your credit card. No, I'm fine because he he's not in the present pain of the severity of his situation. Okay, so that's if you get it fixed. With where you're at right now with the pain stopping your workouts halfway through, having done that three times in the last two months, are you going to be able to get stage ready and win? I don't know if you froze. No, I I I don't think I I'd be able to. Why not? Because I can't train at the level I need to to be stage ready without this back pain being fixed. Okay. And so how much longer are you willing to continue going to train knowing that the training you're doing is never going to get you to a place where you can step on stage and win, knowing that you're on a ticking timer of never being able to fulfill your dream? Not much longer. That's why I'm on this call. Okay. Where you can come back in a week if you want. No, I I want to get this fixed now. Was there something that shifted as far as not being able to finish the workouts, knowing that you're on a ticking timer, that meant that you contacted us and you decided that you need to get this resolved? What What happened? I think after my last workout and having to only getting through halfway through it, I just had enough with the back pain, and I I want to get this solved so I can compete at the level. Okay. That that makes sense that you had to stop the workout. What I'm curious about is h how in your mind did that connect with the the dream that you're not fulfilling, knowing that you're on a limited time to fulfill it? Was there I don't know, like, you you saw a friend of yours that just posted photos on his Facebook that he just won a bodybuilding show, and you're like, that that needs to be me. Like, was there something that you saw recently or had an experience recently that just not being able to finish your workouts became no, I'm not I'm not willing to lose my dream? Did you have any shifting experience like that recently? It's just the fact that the the next show is in October, and I saw and you know, as as weeks go by and I'm getting closer to that date that it's not going to be possible unless I get this fixed now. Okay. Okay. And and was there something you saw as far as the show coming up that you were like, "Okay, if I don't get this fixed now, that show date is going to come and go, and it's not going to be possible." Like, did did you have like some moment of clarity over that that timeline recently? I would just say, you know, I came into this year, and when I when I wrote my my goals down, it was I I really wanted to do this, and now that I see, you know, I see I pass the poster every day at every time I'm at the gym, just I know I'm getting closer and closer, so I I know that I need to get this fixed now, or it's not going to happen.
Makes total sense. So what I'm curious about is if I'm understanding correctly, you've passed that poster at the gym every day since you wrote down your goals in January 1, is that correct? Correct. Yeah. So so you've probably passed that poster what are we? April? January, March, you know, 12 12 weeks, three times a week. You you've probably passed that poster 50 times. What shifted that the last time you passed the poster? Something clicked inside of you that this needs to be fixed. What actually has changed? I think it was just the level of pain that I had on my last session, which really triggered I need to get this fixed, or it's just going to keep getting worse, and then I'll never be able to do this. Okay. What was it about the level of pain that triggered that compared to the level of pain you were in previously? It was much sharper. I felt like I couldn't you even sometimes walking was hard. So it's definitely a different level versus the other few times that it did happen. Okay. So so you're saying you you you had workouts before; you're in pain; you you did have to stop your workouts, but if I'm understanding correctly, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, it sounds like previously once you stopped the workout to a certain extent, you kind of forgot about it. You forgot that you had to stop the workout, whereas this time you stopped the workout, and then you were still in pain literally just walking that you're like, "Shit, this has got to the point now where I can't even walk without being in pain. What does that mean for my dream of being a competitive bodybuilder? Is that Am I understanding that correctly? Yeah, that's exactly it. It was a big wake-up call, to be honest. Okay. That makes total sense. All right, we we'll pause the role play there. So can you see, Dr. Robin, how that one question where you were asking, you know, how far away would you be if we get this fixed by me just flipping it upside down and starting to get into the severity of his current situation, which is you are in pain, you're stopping your workouts, you can't train at the intense performance level that you need to compete, you're on a ticking timer, are you ever going to be able to do this if you continue with this pain? No. Okay. Why not? Then I just had to get into why now, and then we're we're done basically. So this is how how you phrase your questions, which comes from understanding the philosophy of sales, which is we're not selling the future pacing; that's [ __ ]. We're selling: do you realize how bad your current situation is and the severity and the consequences of your current situation? Once I've gone deep and deep and deep and deep and deep enough into the severity and the prospect is now fully aware of that, you offer them a choice, which is do you want to continue like this, or how much longer are you willing to continue like this? That's once you've gone into the severity of their current situation and stacked up all the costs of their current situation. It's not the benefits of the future. Does that make sense for everybody? Pop in the chat, guys, if that all makes sense. Yeah. And these little subtle shifts, guys, this is how you're so you're so close to nailing this, guys, like that they're just very very subtle shift changing the way you phrase a question, knowing which question is useful for one type of prospect and not useful for another type of prospect, which by the way, guys, is not reading a a [ __ ] handbook of oh, these questions for this prospect and these ones for this prospect. It's just thinking like if we if we slow down, if Dr. Robin had slowed down a little bit on the call mentally, not not literally in the communication, and thought, "Huh, is is this guy on the phone with me because he's in pain and he doesn't want to be in pain?" No, it doesn't really feel like that; therefore, asking him about the level of pain he's in probably isn't useful for this conversation. It's not it's not rocket science, guys. It's it's very basic. You know, like if if you're tuned in and you're present enough and you just take a moment to think through what what am I trying to find out about this guy who's on the phone with me as opposed to running your script metaphorically. It It's as simple as that, guys. Yeah, you're on the f you're on a discovery call with an old lady, and she's in absolute agony. You you're probably not going to have conversations with her about her exercise regime. It's
Probably not relevant; it's the fact that she wakes up every day at a 9.5 out of 10, and she goes to bed every day at a 9.5 out of 10. And how does it feel living life where 24 hours a day you're at a 9.5 level of excruciating pain? And how much longer do you want to live life like that? That's that conversation. Completely irrelevant if we were talking to Chris on the phone, who's a professional athlete that wants to now compete and can't do so, and it's been a lifelong dream since he was a kid. This is why you got to have real conversations, guys, that are different for every different type of prospect. Okay, does that make sense, folks? All right. Chris has got a bounce, so we'll stay on for 10 minutes and we'll go through any takeaways or any questions, and I'll chat with Dr. Robin as well. Chris, much brother.
All right, it's always a pleasure. Great work, Dr. Robin. Keep crushing it.
Thanks. Take care. You too. Bye-bye.
All right, Dr. Robin, thoughts, takeaways?
Well, um, been in the mastermind like five or maybe six months now, maybe starting my sixth, and that was really a great penny drop moment for me because I've been so used to bigging up their pain, which has served me, but you're right, it's like I'm I'm helping them solve their particular problems rather than like treating them as a commodity. When you said that with Jordan the other day, it pain dropped for me as well. I was like, I'm doing the same thing. So that's been really helpful. So basically selling relief from their current situation, which I help them get down to is the reality and the severity of it, and then giving them the choice of like, "By the way, do you want to keep doing this or do you want to change?" Literally, I think that's all it is.
Angle is pretty good. Yeah, like people overcomplicate sales, and it's like sales really is: I'm going to have a conversation with someone, and I'm going to ask them questions because I'm curious; exploratory discovery to figure out what's the issue with their situation. And as I'm asking those questions, we're probably figuring out more issues and more severity of those issues than the prospect was even aware of, or they were aware of them, but they hadn't quite connected the dots. Like Jordan—not Jordan, Chris—playing that prospect was absolutely aware that the back pain was going to kill his dream of being a competitive bodybuilder, but he'd probably never got got a journal out and written down, "Okay, today had to stop back workout 50% of the way through because I stopped 50% of the way through; probably didn't stimulate my legs at all, and you know my legs are my weak point, and you know I want to compete, and six months ago I decided I wanted to compete; I've actually wanted to compete all my life, and I'm on a ticking timer." He probably knew all of those things individually but had never created a thesis, like a, you know, an essay on [ __ ] "This is my situation, and it sucks, and this is the severity, and this is the consequence." And it it kind of goes back to the point that for inbound sales, not outbound, inbound, everybody that you're on the phone with has these answers, 'cause they booked in a call with you. You're not trying to dig for pain that isn't there or try and find severity or find consequences that are not there; it's all already there. Your job is to just get the information onto the table, make sure it's crystal clear, piece it all together, and then give back the thesis to the prospect and say, "Is this accurate?" And they'll probably go, "It is accurate." And you know what? I I already knew all of that, but I feel differently now; you're presenting it to me in this packaging. And that's the point. They knew the information consciously or subconsciously, but their state around the information was not that affected; they were like, "Oh, you know, I stopped my back workout; what a not a big deal." Because people rationalize. This is what Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett talk about, which is cognitive biases; we change our perspectives of things based on all sorts of different things, like we have one that's called recency bias, which is if something happened very recently, we remember it and give it more significance, even though that doesn't mean it's more important or has more significance; it's just a bias or what's called a heuristic based on recency. Prospects, because we're humans and we all do it, we all take the information about our current situations and run them run it through all of these weird biases that means the sentiment that we should be feeling about our situation is no longer there. We can see the information; we can see it logically, consciously, subconsciously, but we don't feel anything about it. Your job as a closer, as an orchestrator, as a master communicator, is to get that information out of the prospect and lay it all out on a conveyor belt in a way that's going to move the prospect through the state change that then they're like, "I already knew all of that information, but I feel differently about it now," and you've essentially motivated them through bringing the emotions up into the information that they're now like, "I I have to do something about this." And the mastery is: which questions are going to do that for which prospect? Who do I need to be as a closer to be congruent and authentic to pull those emotions out of people? What stuff do I need to just be in silence for and let the prospect figure it out? How detached do I need to be so that the prospect knows I'm pulling the emotions out of them to help them, not for me to make the sale? Because two two scenarios: you pull out the emotions in one prospect, and the prospect knows what you're doing and why you're doing it; all of a sudden those emotions are now painted through the lens of, "Oh well, you're just trying to get my emotions out to sell me; I'm not going to associate to my emotions and my feelings about my situation." Same thing: all the emotions come out, but the prospect's like, "I can feel that you're doing this for me rather than doing it to me." And now they're associated to all the emotions. That's why all of the things that we teach about how to understand scriptless selling and how to develop the internal mastery so you become this type of closer is how you're able to do what we just demonstrated on this call. Is that clear?
Clear. Awesome. Any other takeaways from you?
I like what you said about just pulling it out of them, pulling it onto a I would like to say a silver platter rather than a conveyor belt, but yeah, definitely is. And to be honest, Josh, you say so much wisdom; I'm like trying to catch up; I'm like so much at once; I don't really have that much takeaway right now; like I'm looking forward to the YouTube video whatever you produce for this to go through this line by line and actually digest this and take my time, um, so that's my biggest takeaway so far right now.
That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Anybody else in the chat? Does anybody else have any additional thoughts or takeaways or questions? If you do, I'll pull you up on the screen for a couple of minutes; we'll go through those. If not, I will give a summary, and then that will be us for today. Pop in the chat, guys, if any of you want to come up and share a light bulb moment or a takeaway that you had. Lucas is still digesting it as well. All right, guys, if nobody has any takeaways, I'm going to summarize some of my notes.
All right, you have seen another high-ticket sales role-play, and we went through a massive amount of the extremely powerful nuances that differentiate an average closer that makes an average income and lives an average life from a master closer that is able to master their income so that they can live the life of their dreams. So I'm going to break down for you a number of those different nuances, but most importantly, like Dr. Robin said, if you really want to be able to equip yourself and access these abilities, you can't just be watching YouTube videos; you have to be in the arena; you have to be coming to these role plays as a member of the mastermind so that you can be the prospect and you can be the closer. Then you have to add that with all of the training that we have inside the mastermind on how to actually understand and execute scriptless selling and how to understand and execute the internal mastery that you need to develop so that you can use these tools in your arsenal. So after I've done this summary, if you want to actually go to the next level, then you have to be honest with yourself and look in the mirror and say, "I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be; my current level of income is exactly where it's supposed to be based on the fact that I am not showing up at the level that I need to to master sales; I am not putting in the work that I need to to master sales; and I am not aligning myself with a mentor who has mastered this aspect of sales, has already accomplished what I want to accomplish, and can therefore show me how to get to where they got to and how to get back from where they got to." If you want to master sales, click the link below and join us inside the Unicorn Close Mastermind so that we can actually equip you with these skills. All right, let's get into the takeaways. So first one is the accuracy of when you recap information back to the prospect. It's very important when you ask a prospect a question that you ensure that you understood what they said and you ensure that the prospect understands that you understood and got accurate what they said. So when you listen, you want to make a few notes of a few key points, although most of it you should develop the ability to just remember, and you repeat it back to the prospect so that you learn to show the prospect that you actually understood everything. If you get some of your recap wrong, it will lower the trust of the prospect because they can see that you are not picking up what they are putting down. Number two is on my list here: asking relevant questions versus asking scripted questions. Depending on which avatar you're speaking to, depending on which prospect you're speaking to, there are some questions that will be completely irrelevant and other questions that will be the game-changer questions. How do you know which question to ask? Well, you're never going to figure that out if all you're doing is reading a script and trying to ask the same questions in the same order and follow the exact same process to every prospect. If you want to learn how to be able to adapt your conversation so that you have the flexibility to close anybody, you have to ditch the script, and you have to learn how to understand the foundations of communication, which is reading the room, reading the prospect in front of you, and then being able to create the conversation that will orchestrate the discovery for the prospect and for you that will help them make the best decision for them. So the example was a 1 to 10 of pain; in this case, wasn't a relevant question for this prospect, but for another prospect, it could have been one of the most powerful questions. If all the questions you're following are written out on a script, you do not have the adaptability that you need to be able to close anybody that's closable. Number three: knowing your avatar and being able to understand and also have the open-mindedness, which can be explained as non-assumptiveness or non-judgment, that everybody's pain is different. So for this prospect, this guy's pain was not relief of pain; it was the relief of, "I've got a dream that is currently slipping through my fingers; I am on a ticking time bomb before I'll never be able to step on stage and have the highest shot of winning, which has been a childhood dream." You have to be able to understand and have the the genuineness to not be trying to sell someone based on what you think is going to be the questions and the parts of the conversation that matter to them, but based on what actually matters to the individual prospect. It's another thing that you will never be able to master if all you're doing is reading from a script because you just treat your prospects like commodities if you're just reading from a script, and they're not commodities; they're human beings that need your help, so stop letting them down. Number four is generalizing when you're gathering information versus getting specific examples. If you were selling lead gen, you wouldn't just say, "Oh, how many leads do you get?" "Oh, it's usually 200 or 300." You want to know in a specific moment, which the moment is always right now; last week, how many leads did you get? Seven. Okay, got it. In this case, how many times did he go to the gym this week versus in general how many times does he train and how many times does he train legs? Generalizing is not powerful because it allows the prospect to disassociate from the information because they're relaying the information to you like a third party rather than telling you their personal, first-person perspective of what they've been up to recently and how [ __ ] it's been. You have to get people to relive the experiences because you have to get them to live those experiences to get into the state of frustration which actually helps them make an accurate decision at the end of the call because if they're frustrated, the choice is: do you want to do something about it? If they're not frustrated, you can't ask them, "Do you want to do something about it?" because they're not feeling the frustration of their situation. Number five: how you phrase questions. We sometimes phrase questions in ways that are not very clear, and if you do that, you're going to add 20% onto your call length time because you confuse the prospects and you get less accurate information. So in this case, it was, "How does your workouts compare because they're 50% of your workouts to normal?" Well, that's less simplified than to just say, "How many times has this happened?" Oh, it's happened 17 times. Oh, okay, got it; so bad situation times 17 times; how frustrated are you? Oh, I'm really pissed off. Keeping your question phrasing simple allows the prospect to be picking up what you're putting down. Number six: people buy from you, so if you treat your prospects as a commodity by not going deeper into their personal life story relevant to whatever you're selling, don't talk about other stuff that's irrelevant, then at the end of the call, they'll treat you like a commodity, which means, "Hey man, just follow up with me." Or, "Hey man, I need to speak to my wife," when they're not even married. Or, "Hey man, I need to compare different options," when they have no interest to compare options or ever get back to you. If you treat your prospects as a commodity, this is called the law of the mirror; they will treat you the same way, so don't do it. And the final one, I believe, is key; key philosophical change for you as a closer: you do not sell hypothetical future goals or future pacing; how will it feel when this is relieved? They don't [ __ ] know; they've been in this [ __ ] situation for years; they don't know; they don't remember; they can't tell you accurately what it's going to feel like. So if you try and get that information and use that as your case to sell the deal, you won't sell the deal. What you do do is find out the pain of their current situation, the severity of it, and the consequences of that situation that they're now aware of through your questions, and you ask them, "Do you want relief from your existing painful situation or do you want to continue living in pain?" Metaphorically, that is a big philosophical shift. If you want to become a master closer, high-ticket closer, one-call closer, no follow-up, little [ __ ] type of closer, and you want to make a mass amount of money, you have to understand at a core fundamental level what you're actually doing as a salesperson, which you will never understand what you're doing if all you've been trained to do is read a piece of paper; you don't even know what you're trying to do as a salesperson; you're just reading the next question so that is what we covered in this role-play. By the way, as I said five minutes ago, it's very good that you're on these YouTube videos, but these are a tiny tip of what we actually cover inside the Unicorn Closer Mastermind. To give you a simple explanation of that: these videos are about an hour long or an hour and a half long once a week, and you are not actually the prospect or the closer or getting to ask me questions every single week inside the mastermind; we train for over 4 hours on a live call, so 4x the amount of depth and knowledge and training and expertise that you're mastering happens on the inside of the mastermind, plus you're actually now player one where you can ask me questions; you can get a call review; you can be on the role-play; you can get feedback, guidance, mentorship, support to take you to the next level. If that is something that you truly are committed to doing, be about it; don't just talk about it and say, "One day I will." Today is the day; click the link below and join the Unicorn Closer Mastermind so that you can learn at a high level how to become a master closer, which for me personally and will be the same for you is the key to unlock the doorway to living a better life, living the life of your dreams, whatever that is for you. I'd like to help you accomplish that, but to do that, you have to show up how you want your prospects to show up. If you don't want prospects showing up saying, "I'll think about it," don't be the prospect that says, "I'll think about it." Be the prospect that takes action. I'll see you soon.