Transcription
Hello and welcome to a new episode of Relationship, But Different. [music] Today is another solo episode from me without Adrian, because today I want to use this episode to actually take you a bit into my very personal, um, yes, private history, to a specific, to a specific event that I experienced this year and that was actually very formative and very important for me, um, in the context of open relationships as well. And, um, it's also the case that we already discussed this at the beginning of our podcast and it's also told to me again and again, um, by my clients, that this is a big topic in the context of open relationships, and that is how it is when not only physical attraction is involved, but also emotional attraction. That means, when I don't just feel drawn to someone on a physical level and perhaps have a sexual adventure with a person, maybe it's even just a one-off or, if you like, one, two, three times, but it's really, yes, only based on a physical level, but what do you do? So, that's also often asked as a question. Um, what do you do when you fall in love? Or it doesn't always have to be a big infatuation right away, but it can simply be that I notice, wow, I feel drawn to this person on an emotional level too. It does something to me. So the person really touches me, um, yes, on a deeper level, and possibly then also thought games arise, right? What if I were to spend more time with this person now? Um, what exciting things could I experience with this person? And perhaps then you also catch yourself, yes, indeed, that this person could perhaps play a bigger role in your own life. Um, and that somehow that could then perhaps also have an influence on your own relationship, if that is also what you perhaps have as a couple, um, as a guideline for an open relationship, right? And as I said, at the beginning of our podcast, we also did an episode about the background of why Adrian and I opened up our relationship, and we already established back then that we have a slightly different orientation anyway and that, um, yes, our motivations are also different, while, to summarize it briefly, while it was really more about Adrian experiencing an adventure, um, a sexual adventure with a new person, perhaps, just to, yes, someone you meet and where there's an attraction, perhaps somehow a game, yes, somehow a, yes, an adventure in the air, that you can also live that out, and, um, that then usually rather one-off stories are that happen in a certain context, at a festival, at a party, on vacation. I already explained back then that, um, it's also a bit about me, um, that I can also feel drawn to other people on an emotional level and that I have also experienced that in my past, that despite being in a relationship, I felt drawn to other men and then really on an emotional level, and that that, um, for me back then, what I always rejected myself for, felt ashamed of, thought to myself, how can it be that I feel drawn to someone else when I'm in a relationship? Um, right, what's wrong with me? So, my story also always started like that a few years ago, and where I simply also wished that that could also be part of a relationship, simply that that can exist when it arises, right? So, when I notice that I feel drawn to someone, that I don't have to devalue myself for it, don't have to be ashamed of it, but can also simply remain curious in a certain way, what's happening in me right now, what is this other person triggering in me, and why perhaps, and how do I then deal with my partner? And perhaps you also remember, those of you who have been following our podcast for a longer time, that in one episode Adrian and I also discussed that, um, that is indeed something that is a bigger challenge for Adrian, this idea that it's not just a physical level, but that there are also possibly feelings involved or at least an emotional attraction is also involved, because of course then topics are triggered, right? Like, what if, if I then, in this case, decide on someone else, um, perhaps break up with him, that means something like loss, fear is then naturally a topic and of course also, because a connection to another person, which would then perhaps last for a longer time, naturally also has a much bigger influence on the relationship than if it's just a one-off adventure. And you have to see that, um, the more complex our relationship networks become, that is, the more people are also somehow involved, yes, the more capacities and energy you also have to invest to somehow manage the whole thing. Yes, very, very simply put. Um, that means it was not an active topic for us in our open relationship for a long time. So, it wasn't like I really felt drawn to someone else on an emotional level that I would have wished for something longer or that I would have wished for it to continue somehow. That's why it wasn't such a big topic for us in recent years, and yet it was still a bit in the back of my mind, what will we do when this happens and how will we deal with it, right? Because that's simply, you also have to say quite realistically, um, that's the case in every relationship, so it's a possibility, right, that you can also feel drawn to someone else and then you have to find a way to deal with it. So, in a classically monogamous relationship, it's of course never excluded that something like this can happen. Um, but if you consciously open yourself up to other people and thus let more other people into your life, then the probability that you can also feel drawn to someone else on an emotional level is simply greater, right? That means you also consciously take a risk, I would claim, which is also okay. So, for me personally, it's simply a life risk, um, with which I, um, want to deal and where I also believe by now to trust our relationship so much that if that happens, we can deal with it and find ways. And this is now a bit of a long preamble [laughter], but I wanted to take you along a bit as to why this is such an important episode for me and why it's such an important topic for me, because exactly this happened to me this year. Um, and it challenged me at first, because it hasn't happened to me in recent years, and I also had to think for a moment, um, and see for myself or for us, how we deal with it now. And I consciously don't want to go into too much detail now, simply because, um, I also want to protect the person a bit, so to speak, and this shouldn't give too many clues as to who it is. Um, but I still want to take you along a bit as to how it all happened. And so, in the summer, I was more at a, um, multi-day event, alone, so without Adrian, and, um, was there for several days, as I said. I also actually didn't have a phone, um, or rather, I just didn't, um, use my phone during those days, but really just for myself, and, um, yes, then, um, I met a man, um, whom I already knew from before, but not really, I mean, I didn't have him on my radar in that sense. Yes, so there are always moments when you meet someone and then you think, oh, he's got something, and then he's perhaps in the back of your mind or you have him on your radar, but it wasn't like that at all, but I didn't have him on my radar at all at that time, and then, over the course of those days, when I was there, I noticed, hmm, something is there. So, as I said, the focus wasn't necessarily on physical attraction, nor necessarily on sexual attraction, but it was simply that, um, I then at some point had the feeling that we were both looking for closeness to each other and, um, spending time together, a lot of time together, and I then, I'll stick to myself here, I then really noticed that it's doing something to me. So, I feel, right, so his presence touches me. Um, it touches me to have conversations with him. And I then noticed that it also triggered ideas or fantasies, that I thought to myself, what would it be like now, if we, if I were with him, or, um, right, what would we experience together? So, that developed a bit over the days, and then I noticed, wow, this is now somehow more than I expected myself, and perhaps also hoped for, because it's still a bit challenging at the moment, right? Because you don't experience something like this every day, and I found it so super exciting to observe myself in how I dealt with it, and I'm actually very grateful to myself for it, because I felt that I could handle the situation quite well, because I had already dealt with this topic so intensively and somehow didn't feel completely lost, and also not, I mean, I wasn't completely helpless either. Oh God, what's happening here? And what does it mean for me? Do I have to break up with Adrian immediately? So, all those ideas that I still know from before, from my former self, when I experienced this in my previous relationship, they weren't really there, those thoughts, but it was all much calmer, I could observe it all much more, and it didn't throw me off balance so much, but as I said, it still did something to me, because you don't experience that every day, as I said. And as I said, I then, um, observed myself a bit in how I'm dealing with it now and then made the decision for myself, I want to tell the person, because, um, I feel that there is an attraction and I have the feeling that there is something in the air between us and, um, was then also quite curious and simply wanted to know what happens when I share how I'm feeling right now, how the other person reacts to it, how they relate to it, or what they make of it. Um, yes, and and, um, I didn't want to keep it to myself, um, and deal with it alone, but, um, I also wanted some kind of comparison. So, I simply wanted to know, is this just in my head, or does the other person feel the same way? And at that point, I can imagine that many people listening might think, oh God, then you've already emotionally cheated on your partner, and, um, right, if he knew, or if he had known that you were having such conversations. So, at least that's my experience, that many people would say at that point, okay, wait a minute, something is going terribly wrong, because how can that be, right, that you feel drawn to someone else when you're actually so happy in the relationship? And my perspective over the last few years has really changed extremely, because I believe that it is something deeply human to resonate with other people, to the extent that I, um, find other people great, that other people touch me, and if it's also, let's say, the gender to which I, so to speak, generally, yes, my sexual orientation, then it is, in my view, so natural that other feelings get involved than just purely platonic ones. And I am absolutely convinced by now, with all that I know and have experienced myself, that this is per se, as I said, something deeply human, and in my view, it has nothing to do with me cheating on anyone, not even emotionally cheating, but that this is something that, as I said, in my view, is deeply human, which can simply happen, which I also don't have under control, and, um, which also, in my view, is by no means an indication of whether my relationship is now, um, yes, broken or, um, I'm no longer happy, but what we should be clear about is, when we feel drawn to other people, especially on an emotional level, um, then, yes, then this person touches something in me, perhaps a certain need, yes, or even several needs. And that is, as I said, something completely normal, because I am absolutely convinced, um, no partner in the world can always perfectly fulfill all my needs at the same time. That means there are always certain things that I might wish for right now, but they are simply not fulfilled, and that is nothing bad at all. Yes, so I am neither of the opinion that my partner must always fulfill all my needs, nor that it is something bad if that is not the case, yes, or rather, it belongs together somehow, right? Um, but it simply shows that we humans are complex beings, we humans have different desires and needs, and they are not always fully met by one person, and therefore there may sometimes be other people who pick me up in a different way. Yes, and, um, where it might even be about certain needs supposedly being met by this person that are not being met in my current relationship. But it doesn't even have to be like that, because it can also be that I simply resonate with another person, and they are quite similar to my partner. Yes, so that's also possible. But what, in my opinion, is simply incredibly important in such a situation is that you first realize that what is happening in me right now, I can neither control, nor is it anything that speaks against me or my relationship, but I can take it as an opportunity to question what this person is triggering in me. What touches me particularly, and what is perhaps also something that I wish for, that is perhaps not being fulfilled right now, and then a lot can also come to rest again. And that's a bit of what I've now really, also, well, what I already knew in theory, but have now also experienced live with my own example this summer, that usually what leads to me falling head over heels for someone else, that it becomes really intense, and I, um, get a bit lost in that infatuation and then perhaps immediately question my relationship and then think, okay, I have to run away with this person now and my relationship is no longer worth anything or something like that, that this is usually a consequence of not dealing with what is happening in me right now, but really blindly following that impulse and, um, essentially letting myself be carried away by that intoxication that infatuation can sometimes cause, and not pausing to see what's actually going on here. Yes, and that it naturally becomes much, much bigger sometimes, such an infatuation or crush, or whatever you want to call it, than it actually is, because what we also have to be clear about, we usually don't know this person well enough, and that was the case with me too. I mean, right, we got to know each other very intensively over a few days, but I didn't know much more about this person. That means that what often starts are simply projections, ideas that I have, that I then connect with this person. Yes, what I could experience with this person, or what we could, yes, do together, what a relationship could look like. And these are all projections of my own desires and needs onto this person, about which I don't know at all whether it corresponds to reality at all. And therefore, in my opinion, the biggest risk in such a phase is that you let yourself be completely guided by this projection and believe that everything will be better with this person, question your own relationship because it might not seem as exciting and thrilling in comparison to this new person, and then usually find yourself in a situation later where you, um, realize, okay, they're just human too, and now I've perhaps given up my relationship for it and run away with this new person. Um, and in the end, yes, I'm now perhaps facing other, but still challenges, as in any relationship. And therefore, to get to the point, what was incredibly formative for me was really realizing that I can feel drawn to this person right now, I can even talk to this person about it, show myself in it. And by the way, it was also the case that the person also, um, yes, explained to me, right, that they perceive it similarly to me. So, it wasn't just a figment of my imagination, but I did perceive something that was really there. Um, so, that means we had some kind of attraction to each other on an emotional level. And at the same time, it doesn't mean that I have to do something with it right now. So, that was probably the most important and biggest realization for me in this whole context, to realize that I am allowed to have these feelings, I don't have to be ashamed of them, I'm not a bad person because of it, my relationship isn't bad because of it either, yes, but this person is triggering something in me, where I can look again for myself, why is this triggering something in me? What is it triggering in me, right? And what needs and desires might that indicate? And then also to realize, okay, all of that can exist, and I don't have to do anything with it. I don't have to, as I said, question my relationship with this person, run away, and so on, but I then drove home after this event and then, um, essentially showed myself to Adrian. I told him what had been going on in me, what I had experienced, how I had felt it, and, um, at the same time, I also, um, said, I don't have to do anything with this right now. I don't have to pursue this feeling of budding infatuation or whatever it is, right, how you want to call it, because I don't want that for my life right now. Yes, so here's another important point, um, all our feelings and thoughts are allowed to be there, but they don't necessarily have to lead to an action, but there is a space between stimulus and reaction, as they say so beautifully, right? So, between what I perceive and what I do. And I can decide for myself that I can perhaps even enjoy this feeling, but don't have to make anything out of it. I don't have to change my life because of it, but I can simply, um, yes, perceive it like that and then, um, decide that it doesn't have any further relevance in my life right now. And that showed me again very strongly that this is essentially what, for me, makes this open relationship in our relationship right now. Um, that I am allowed to perceive what I feel towards other men, in this case, in my case, um, that it can also trigger a tingling and infatuation, and that I can then decide what I do with it for myself, and of course also in, yes, consultation, let's say, with my partner, and that that, essentially, is what has so much value for me, namely that I, um, am allowed to be there with everything that arises in me, and that I still, um, am sitting at the wheel of my car, so to speak, and can decide where I'm going, and don't have to, in quotation marks, become a victim of my feelings or my infatuation. Um, and there might have been other situations, or could have been, where I would have decided differently in exactly this situation. Yes, so that's also important to say again. I don't want to say that you're not allowed to fall in love with someone else, and you always have to do it the way I just did, that you, um, told them that you don't do anything with it, yes, but I find it just as legitimate if you decide as a partner for yourself, I want to see this person again, um, I might even want to have a polyamorous relationship. Yes, so don't misunderstand me, anything is possible. What I'm trying to convey in this episode is that for me, the greatest thing, or what gives me the most, is to realize that I have the decision. Yes, I have the decision. I can decide for myself what is right for me, with my partner, and yet all the feelings and thoughts that are there, which I can't control anyway, can be there. That means it doesn't have to, um, contradict, right? And that is, um, something that I would really like to pass on to you at this point, and because it also gives me a lot of peace and serenity, that if something like this happens to me again, in quotation marks, yes, that I feel drawn to someone else, that I will again have, um, the trust in myself that I will deal with it and that I will also decide again what this is doing to me right now, whether I want to pursue it or not, that I can talk about it with my partner, yes, I don't have to reject anything that happens within me. That gives me such an incredibly great freedom and at the same time such an incredibly great serenity. Um, and it feels much, much more coherent to me to look at my open relationship than to say, open relationship means, right, whatever happens to me, whoever I feel drawn to, I can just do anything now. Yes, because that is usually the construct of an open relationship that can go extremely wrong. Yes, if I have the idea, we are in a relationship, and yet I can do anything I want. Um, because there, right, we often end up in this conflict, that what I want is not necessarily always what is good for the relationship right now, or what is also good for my partner. And in my view, it's part of the relationship that I can not only feel free within myself, yes, but that I also take my partner into consideration and see what, what is holding and supporting our relationship right now, and to be able to decide that again and again, in every situation I find myself in, to look again at what I do with my feelings, with my thoughts, how I deal with it for myself, and also with my partner. That is, as I said, the foundation of our open relationship, and what I very much wish for you, who are interested in open relationships or other relationship models, is that it is really about being able to look again and again at what feels right here, what feels good to me, what feels good to my partner, and to find common paths that are coherent, and not to be at the mercy, just because I feel drawn to someone else. and to believe that I have to follow every impulse and only then will I be happy. So, this is, um, really something, as you may notice, that has moved me very much, to experience it again in, um, in this situation myself and not just to know it theoretically and, um, pass it on, but to really experience it firsthand. In this sense, if you feel addressed by this, or perhaps notice, yes, this is also a topic in our relationship, how to deal with it when I feel drawn to someone else, perhaps also on an emotional level, perhaps also on a physical level, and with any attraction, it brings me quite a bit of chaos, I don't know what to do with it, I'm ashamed of it, or, um, I simply don't dare to communicate it at all with my partner, and you feel alone with these feelings that come over you, and you wish for exactly that, namely to make a decision for yourself, how do I deal with it, and also to make a decision together with your partner that then ultimately feels coherent, and where you also feel that serenity and freedom at the same time, which I spoke about earlier. Then I would be very happy if I get to know you soon in a get-to-know-you call. You can find the link in the show notes, where we can then also see, right, where you stand exactly, what you are experiencing exactly, and if there is perhaps a possibility, um, to let me guide you through this challenge. We will find that out together in this get-to-know-you call, and then possibly work together over a longer period of time. I look forward to getting to know you. See you very soon. [music]