A lot of people make confirmations 90% of their system, and then the levels and their directional bias and everything like that is only 10%. You need to have a great framework, a great bias, great levels to look for. Once you've already got the bias, chances are you will get a reaction from your level. It's just that extra 10% just to get basically confirmation bias to see your entry go.

I absolutely love naked points of control. They're so strong. The easiest one is like the daily naked point of control. So all of price action yesterday, the volume profile across that full session, the highest volume node. When the next day opens, if that hasn't been hit, that's a naked point of control, and so market tends to gravitate towards it.

Gravitate towards it, then reflect off. Exactly. One of my favorites is when the money is emotion. A lot of people, they want to start making thousands and thousands, but just having a bit of skin in the game is important. So I don't care if it's 10p or £10,000, that will change how you trade completely different to demo. If you're not losing, then you're not learning. As long as you can transition that into a lesson. What didn't you see? What did you see? How can you learn from that? Then you didn't lose. You paid for a lesson.

With regards to the break even, seems like you have a systematical approach. With regards to your entry, seems like you have a systematical level. Fibonacci, the nodes of the volume, and so forth. Everything seems a bit mechanical and systematic, yet you still allow a lot of space for discretion. Elaborate on that. When the technicals do seem to have a checkbox, mechanical approach, where does intuition or where does discretion come into this? So majority of systems now, ladies and gents, welcome back to another episode. I'm joined by Max, goes by Cold. Bro, thank you very much for joining. I want to jump right in and start off with you mentioned you have some controversial takes. Uh, so I want to leave it broad and say, okay, what are some hot takes you have in the industry within technicals or trading that maybe ruffle some feathers?

Yeah, first off, thank you for having me. Uh, it's been amazing hospitality. And then straight into it, a few takes that I see. Uh, risk management. So a lot of people obviously focus on risk management. I think the only objective way to really uh measure profitability is in terms of R. So a lot of people nowadays are calculating in terms of pips and and stuff like this. I don't care about how many pips you're making. What's your R that you're making? So like if you risk £10 on a trade, um, if you make two R, you've made £20. That is the most objective way to calculate profitability. Um, and so if anyone says anything else, I'm like, I don't, I don't want to hear it. That's the way to do it. Um, and then a few other things. So MT4 is just, if you use MT4, you're living in the past. Like, what are you doing?

I mean, MT4 is like, people know Samsung or is probably a better phone if you look at the specs, if you look at the camera, whatever. But everyone in the end uses iPhone. And for me, I was, I was brought up in the MT4 era. So I know it's, I know it's objectively worse. It's just, it's just a habit thing. Regarding risk, man, it's interesting because I, I remember when I was in my first year of trading and I was seeing all the, the signal groups and all of these things.

Uh, they would always be up. And then I, and then I'll just see, oh, we're up a thousand pips this week. Damn. And then what I realized is they'll take like losses on GU, losses on EU, loss on GJ, and they'll do like a random scalp on gold, but because gold's pip count is higher, uh, they're up in pips, they're down in risk reward, and they just fudge the numbers in that way.

I see it all of the time. I don't care about making pips. I care about making money, and that's what we're in for. So, I ignore that. What's the R that you made this week, this month? That's objective. Um, and also, you know, risking a set pound amount, set dollar amount, whatever. I always say that is like the best way to do it in my opinion. Um, a lot of people, I see it all of the time now. It's really, really pushed in the space, especially in signal groups, um, in terms of a set lot size per pound amount in your account. Um, and I think it, it really, really hinders a lot of people's trading. Um, because like you say, if you're trading EU and then you hop onto gold, it's like, you know, it's completely, it's completely different. So, you're going to be risking different amounts on every single trade, and that's just not congruent with profitability in my opinion.

I, I don't want to make the episode about this, but the signal group guys, which there's a lot of them, there's a lot of them in Dubai, to be honest. Uh, I, I've heard rumors that they'll make you deposit, let's say, whatever, 300, 500, and then just to get started, they're like, hey, let's quickly do a Zoom call, just so you know how to, how everything goes, let's quickly place a 10 lot trade, just so you can see. If they $300, a 10 lot trade, and it's just quick open and close.

I came to find out that's just so they can get their commission. And and then when they usually lose, cuz a quick random scalp at a random time with 10 lots, overleveraging, they're like, don't worry, we'll make it back. We'll make it back. And this is like, they're haggling the whole way. Uh, I've, I've done a deep dive and I, this is, this is great. I've done like a really deep dive in how these groups like manipulate things. Um, so in terms of, they tend to close trades early to, you know, limit profitability and stuff like this. And then they'll go on a run, um, with like EU and then they'll swap to, um, swap to gold and say like, you know, this is a really high probability setup. You know, they don't really want you to succeed. Um, and that's really evident when you, when you take a look at these groups. Um, and so I really, really push, um, people who come towards me on. I think it's important to learn what to learn and what not to learn in the space nowadays. I really do feel bad for beginners today because you've really, really got to be careful on what you learn because it's so hard to unlearn bad habits. It really is. And so that's something that I really, really, really push.

I mean, last point on the signal topic, but there is, there is this red flags that I came to learn later on, and I fell for it in the beginning in my first year of trading. I joined two or three signal groups, lost my entire deposits. But one of them was, they'll do TP levels, TP1, 2, maybe even up to TP7. So like, and the, and the full TP7 as a R would be 1:1 or 1 to 2, but then it's a guarantee almost hit TP1 because it's like it's a 1 to 0.2 risk reward. Like it's within 10 pips, you're getting something, within five pips, you're getting something. So they can celebrate in the, in the chat. So you're just seeing a scroll of, oh, TP1, TP1, TP1. But then even if you take a TP1, you you got a 0.2 gain and then one loss is one R. So the R is actually what counts. The pip count, which they skew it, or the TP level game.

Exactly. Exactly. And that's why pips, like you say, let's say TP1, they've made however many, however many pips, let's say 20 pips. Um, but in reality, the R because they've split over 17 positions, it's actually you've made absolutely nothing. And then people are manipulated into feeling it's their fault. Then they up the lot size and this that and the other. Um, and then they just, and then they eventually blow their account and they wonder where they went wrong because it seems like everyone else is making money, which is a whole another kettle of fish.

Cool. Let's move swiftly on to what is your strategy? What is, what is your beliefs in terms of technicals, fundamentals, your approach to your own trading?

Yep. So I use, uh, volume profiles heavily in my trading and Fibonacci. Um, so I basically find areas of confluence on between the like 12 and 15 minute time frame. Um, and then

12 minute time frame.

Yeah. So it's, it's an interesting story. I, when I first got into trading, I got into it through crypto. And so then there was this, uh, there was this crazy like farmer crypto millionaire guy. He was, he's crazy. But he, um, he really, really knew what he was talking about. Just live traded everything. Was amazing. And he would always use like the, the 3 minute, the six minute, the 12 minute. So I just got into using that. I don't hammer down time frames. I say to a lot of people, time people, uh, especially beginners, put too much weight into time frame. I think if you want less information, zoom out. If you want more information, zoom in. It's as simple as that. I rotate between time frames. If I want to zoom in, I want to know what's going on sort of locally, then I'll zoom in. If I want to zoom out and realign myself with the market, then I'll zoom out. Um, but I

Was there any wisdom behind why he was using 12, 3, 6?

So he just said like, up to, um, like factors of 60 or whatever it was. Um, he just felt like it worked better in, uh, in markets. And so I just kind of like adopted it and have done ever since.

Let's take a moment to talk about a partner of the show, a leading prop firm that is FundedNext. It's important for me to listen to our community to see who are you working with and how can we make your experience better. And the main feedback I heard is trusted payouts, quick payouts, ability to scale, and affordable prices. And FundedNext has ticked all of those boxes. Not only being a top three prop firm in the industry, but also having on-demand payouts. And every 10% you gain on your account, you will double your capital for free. And because in this industry, trust and reliability is the most important factor. An important guarantee that they have is that if you do not receive your payout within 24 hours, they will gift you an additional $1,000 to your payouts just for being late. So to unlock all of these benefits and work with a leading prop firm in the industry, FundedNext, check out the link in the description or use the code toot. I think on that, to be honest, price is price, but if you to look at price

In the most raw form, it's going to be a line chart per second. Where did price go? The problem is that's not always as easy to. I mean, if you really think about it, candlesticks are an indicator. They are representing or packaging price in a way that is visually appealing. Um, uh, and the lag in the indicators, the same as the lag in the candle, where a five-minute candle takes five minutes to close and then cemented. So you have kind of a lag there. But I'll do the same. I'll be, let's say my home would be, let's say M15, M1. But if M15 and M1 is not looking nice or not looking clean, you just quickly look at M3. Look at M5. Okay. What are the interactions here to get a representation of what's really going on? So I guess you merge between M12 and M15.

Yeah. Yeah. I look between those, and then, uh, when price is approaching a level, I'll go into, um, you know, 3 minute, 1 minute and look at and look at those. Look at what's going on. And there's something you said interesting there, which a point I really like, is candlesticks are like indicators. I feel like a lot of people don't realize that indicators are just, they're a vehicle, another vehicle for you to view price action through. So, um, I like to look at, uh, momentum, uh, a lot. And so not too much, but a lot. And one thing that's really important there is it's not, and everyone gravitates towards the indicator instead of what's going on on the chart, the levels that, that's the main thing, but everyone wants the indicator.

Why do you think that is?

They just, I don't, I don't really know. I need to assess why, but I think they just want like buy sell signals, that's all they want. And so they gravitate towards the indicator. Uh, and I've got to be like, okay, the indicator is just a vehicle for us to view price action through. Um, and so I personally prefer this one. This allows me, uh, gives me a visual aid to see price action better. It's not super important. I don't need it, but I, I like to have it on. I've had it on for a long time. Uh, and

What is this one? The momentum on?

Yeah. So, I like to use momentum. Um,

As a, there's a momentum indicator, you mean?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, what does that look like? So, it's on an indicator called Vman Chu. It's, uh, it's like big in the crypto space. There's a massive indicator called Market Cipher.

Um, it's huge, huge, huge in the crypto space. Again, a lot of things that I've pulled have been from crypto and now I exclusively trade gold. And so I didn't, you know, come up with, uh, ICT and smart money concepts. You know, that's a whole different topic. Um, but I didn't, you know, grow through my trading journey with any of that. Um, so I've really come from a different angle. And so yeah, it's basically just a momentum oscillator. All oscillators move relatively similarly. So I use a momentum oscillator with a VWAP oscillator as well. And then I also use VWAP on my chart. Um, it's basically just to spot divergences as we're approaching a significant level. Um, that gives me sort of confirmation in the, in the level. And yeah.

Okay, very cool. There's, you give me a lot of things that I can, I can grab on to.

Uh, before I get into the entries, which is basically what the indicators are probably helping you with, how do you figure out direction? Uh, which, what time frames are you entering? The M15 or M12, is that an analysis time frame or execution time frame?

So analysis is on the, um, 12 minute/5 minute. And what I'm looking for is I'm looking for sort of an impulse move and then ranges. So a lot of people, another angle I sort of come from, everyone's, you know, trend traders and, but I like to trade the consolidation. I like to range trade. I like to my fixed volume range across, uh, the across the price action, value high, value low, gives me a nice framework to work from. I'm looking for longs in the value area low. I'm looking for sells, value area high, and then the impulse move in the direction that we went up into the range. So, we go up into the range. There's a range here. I'm looking to buy below the value area low. Obviously, I need to have, you know, a 618 or a 786 line up there with potentially like a daily open or naked point of control. I absolutely love naked points of control. They're so strong. Naked.

So, a naked point of control is basically, um, the, the easiest one is like the daily naked point of control. So all of price action yesterday,

The volume profile across that full session, the highest volume node, the highest volume of of the day. When the next day opens, if that hasn't been hit, that's a naked point of control. And so market tends to gravitate towards it.

Gravitate towards it, then reflect off.

Exactly. So it becomes a nice key level.

A key level. I'd only, I only use any level when it lines up with other levels as well. So, um, one of my, one of my favorites is when the value area low, so when volume sort of begins to drop and you hit that extremity, um, when a golden pocket, so 618, um, 65 lines up there, it's, it's always, well, not always, but most of the time it's already.

So, your, uh, entries, let's call them reversal points, is upon a key level of high volume from a previous data point.

Yeah.

Uh, aligned with a two Fibonacci golden pocket zone.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So, I use Fibonacci a lot.

Got it. Uh, a couple things I want to get into here is, uh, you mentioned range trading. So, range trading, let's just talk, call it like a triple top, triple bottom, and we got a nice box. Uh, you're selling from the top of the range to the bottom of the range, or a range has established and then you're trending towards that historic range and you're trading within it. Which one are we talking?

So, the, the first one. So, there's a range that's formed. Um, so it's just formed after every impulse move, there's a range. Um, and so I'm looking to, yeah, buying the low, selling the high. Quite simple like that. I always hold like 10 to 30% of my position like in case we break the range because if we had an impulse into a range, chances are we'll continue in that direction. Um, and so, and so, yeah.

How, first of all, how are you defining a range? Because you could have like a random M1 range, you could also have a daily range. And then is it minimum two touches or how are you categorizing?

A lot of, a lot of my strategy is up to discretion. So there isn't like some concrete rules. And I think this goes into another topic that I feel, I feel like a lot of people have, um, uh, rule, rule-based systems and mechanical systems. And I feel like people, um, forget to mention the discretionary part of it. So I think every system is like 50% of the system and 50% discretionary. Unless you can just, you know, have set rules and I can give them to some random person and they can execute on that system. But I know if I was to lay out them rules and give them to someone, we would have different entries. And I feel like a lot of people, um, count their system as, you know, very systematic and methodical when in actuality they're using a lot more discretion than they even realize. And so a lot of mine is discretionary. So I just know after an big impulse move to the upside, we're going to have some sort of pullback. When we have that pullback, I'm going to assume that we're going to range there. So, I'm just going to start pulling my fixed volume, uh, profiles. I'm going to start pulling my fibs. And more often than not, it does develop into a full range. And, uh,

So, you're, you're predicting the range before you've even had one touch the low, one touch the high.

So, how do you know one thing is a retracement versus okay, this is the beginning of a consolidation?

So, if it's a, if it's a retracement, normally we've got, um, I can have like a few levels marked up. So, even if we've got a huge move to the upside, you know, you've got some, uh, like supply levels or whatever, um, and some wicks that I can pull fibs to and still have levels there ready. Because, you know, it's, it's never normally just like straight line up. We've got some consolidation on, you know, the one minute, the three minute in between, and I can pull fibs from those levels to the most recent high, get fib levels, um, and then line them up with other, uh, areas. So, for example, daily open. Um, and then, yeah.

With regards to, once you found your range, uh, you're, you're buying in the low of the range, selling at the high of the range, leaving a bit of volume. I'm curious to know why not instead of trading the range, why? Because we can also call it other things. As we could call it an accumulation or reaccumulation, but we know eventually the range is going to have a breakout and go either bullish and continue that trend or reverse on it, uh, and break down, uh, break the range bearish. And then you can have probability of like, okay, if I'm in a discount or I'm in a demand area, I'm likely to have a continuation bullish because I got a higher time frame or you can say I'm in a supply zone, even if I'm bullish, I'm in a supply zone, my range is likely to lead to bearish outcome. So you can, you can kind of skew probability and, uh, wait for the trend out of that breakout. So then you have a lot more expansion, impulsive momentum, like you have all of that energy on your side. Why would you rather trade the slower, consolidative, less potential in the final TP, let's say, as opposed to the expansion and just leaving a symbolic volume?

So a lot of, a lot of my moves are actually, they, they are quite volatile into the, into the low. So I enter with limit orders as well. So, I limit at the level, um, and then put my stop loss below the level with a bit of breathing room. And more often than not, we have a strong reaction. So, it is, it is very volatile. It isn't, I definitely wouldn't consider it, uh, slow. And then breakout moves, I, I've just always been against breakout trading of any form. I just really don't, I don't like it. So, a lot of people trade like, um, you know, when they see the break of structure, they'll, they'll enter. I, I've just never liked break, um, breakout trading. I've always thought it was more retail mindset, um, and, you know, you're going along with the retail, which, which, you know, retail are always wrong, really. Um, and so I don't want to do that. So, I've always just been against that. Um, and, and this, this was coming from the start of my trading journey where, um, I needed to build a system that that just forced me to be patient. And with breakouts, you know, a breakout, if you say breakout, that just sounds like a motion, doesn't it? Break out. Okay, we need to get in now. I don't want to do that. I'd rather wait for a level, patience, and then if, um, if we do continue to range, I'll be able to sell in the highs. If we do break out of the range and have a continuation, I'm already in the position. So, a lot of trades where people are like, "Ah, they're breaking out. They're trading now." I'm already in the position for, um, it might, it's going to be, you know, 10 to 30% of my original position, but I'm still in a position, so I'm able to catch those moves.

How are you combining your Fibonacci levels with the range, uh, high and low?

So, I'm just pulling them from a, so, if we're moving up, I'm pulling them from a low to the most recent high. Um, and then just looking for Fibonacci that line up with, uh, either value area low, naked points of control, daily open. Um,

So, it's Fibonacci first, then consolidation.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, with, in that case, let's say you've got a bullish market, as you said, from low to high, you've got your 61.8 fib level.

As price arrives to that 61.8 level, and you've got a key level also in that area.

Mhm.

Uh, first of all, you have the potential to go from your entry on the key level and Fibonacci level back to the new higher high of the same trend. But you would be in and out inside a consolidation box.

No, I wouldn't. Um, so what I do is, let's say it's coming down to the 618 level.

I'd look on my momentum indicator. I want to see divergences as we're approaching the level. Then I'll place limit, look to the left hand side of my chart, put my stop loss below a prior low that's below the, uh, the the zone that I've got. Um, and then I'll target like one to between 1 to two and 1 to three stop loss to break even after after 1:1. Uh, and then I'm always monitoring though, because if we're getting close to my take profit, and I'm like, okay, this is, you know, it's had a pretty expansive move. Um, lot of impulse, and then I'm like, okay, I'm going to hold more of this position, um, in case we, you know, break out of the range. With regards to, uh, the break even, it seems like you have a systematical approach. Yeah. With regards to your entry, seems like you have a systematical level. Uh, Fibonacci, the the nodes of the volume, and so forth. Everything seems a bit mechanical and systematic, yet you still allow a lot of space for discretion.

Elaborate on that. When the technicals do seem to have a checkbox kind of mechanical approach, where does intuition or where does discretion come into this?

So I just, I feel like majority of systems now, people unknowingly use more discretion than they, than they realize. And so I know that when I'm marking up my levels, I'm going to pull maybe slightly different fib levels to someone else. I'm going to, um, I mean, daily open, you can't really argue with, and high volume nodes and stuff like this, you can't really argue with, but especially the fibs, you knowing which fib levels to use, cuz there'll be times where I'm like, okay, that 618, that golden pocket, it's just not really, it's not really lining up with too much, so I'll go with the 786. So where does the discretion or subjectivity of fib levels come in? Because would it not just be swing low to swing high?

There is, there is a variations of it. You,

Yeah. So let's say we've got a low here and a high here. Often we'll have low, high, higher low.

And I'll go that higher low up to the most recent high. Um, if it lines up better, whereas other people may not do that. And I've definitely noticed that often people get the same levels as me. But then there is people who like, okay, I've got this level, and it's, you know, there, there is variance in that, um, and, and, yeah.

This discretion that you're doing, what would you categorize it as? As in, why, why are you better at deploying your discretion and a new trader would not be deploying it correctly? What is behind that wall?

So I think, uh, a large amount of it is, is time on the charts and the amount of levels that I've seen. I've, you know, I've had a great routine for for years now. I've seen levels respect and not respect. Um, and so I've seen it time and time and time and time and time again. So now I'm just extremely confident. It's, it's semi-laborious in, in what I, what I do. Um, but then when someone starts out, they're, they haven't got that just automation in their brain. Um, and so they'll stress, am I pulling this fib from this low or this low? You can pull them, both are correct, just which one do you use? Um, and then you can come up with, you know, completely different, different zones.

For the last two years, a proud sponsor of the show is a top-ranked leading prop firm, Alpha Capital. And for the years that I've been working with them and the thousands and thousands of viewers, you guys that have been working with them through the discount codes of Titans of Tomorrow, it's clear for me to see why they are a top-ranked prop firm in the industry. They have also reached a monumental milestone of $100 million in payouts. And with the multi-step plans and the multiple package types they have, there's going to be an option catered specifically for what you're looking for. So you can buy an evaluation account catered to your needs at the most competitive prices. And with our discount code toot for Titans of Tomorrow, you're able to get the most unbeatable, unmatched prices in the industry with a leading trusted prop firm. And with that being said, let's get back to the episode. So it's interesting. I spoke to, uh, an author, Jared Tendler, and he, we were discussing this topic of discretion or intuition. And there's a lot of words we can use to describe the same thing.

Uh, but this idea that someone with a market experience and I was under their belt versus a beginner, uh, who has the right to deploy intuition? Cuz someone can say, I didn't follow the plan. I overleveraged. I took a random trade and it played out. I've got an intuition. I'm going to deploy on it. So it's like, who has the right for intuition? Number one. Uh, h, what, what does the box tick to say I have enough IQ or I have enough market experience, market IQ, sorry, to say I can override a system to apply my discretionary approach? And we were discussing this topic, and I was on the side that it seems like you are also, which is intuition is just built-in training. It's like years of experience that is I'm just holding in my head, and now I've got an intuition for it. He argued the opposite, which is intuition is not knowledge in the sense of when I'm talking right now, I'm not thinking of my breathing. I'm not thinking of how I'm moving my hands. I'm not thinking of my depending how bright it is, my pupil dilation. These are all subconscious things that are happening. These are all automatic processes. And the brain will always look for automation in that way. So you're not, you're not using all your brain power on a simple task like walking and talking. So your brain looks for these neural pathways to strengthen, then automate. And he said this is a flaw in the market because you have all of this market experience, you are now automating these processes to have less decision fatigue and do things in a semi-laborious way, as you said. So that is doing the reps, and you're gaining experience. But he said that is not called intuition. He said that is called mastery, or that's called subconscious competence. So he said that category is a great thing to pursue mastery. He said what other people often do is mix it with intuition, which is something that is in your subconscious, but you haven't, uh, been able to define it. You haven't been able to put words to it. You haven't been able to fully explain it, but you see it and you're like, that one doesn't look right. That one, that one looks right. I'm not sure fully sure why. So he said a job of a trader is to bring something that is in your experience or in your, you know, lower doubt, and bring it to the surface so that you can make it mechanical, um, and therefore saying that not all subjectivity is mastery, rather some subjectivity needs a bit of a more systematic approach. What is your thoughts here between?

I, I actually, I really like that. Um, I haven't really thought of it in that way before, instead of, uh, instead of intuition and subjectivity, mastery. Um, I think that's a nice way of putting it. And I do, I agree with what you said, though. You know, once you've seen your system play out time and time and time and time again, it's, you are just going to have that, uh, whatever you want to call it, mastery or intuition or just that feeling that it's going to, it's going to work. And I feel like being able to put words to it, if I could put words to it, then it wouldn't give me as much of an edge as it does. I feel like if you can put words to something, um, like I feel like, yeah, if you can put words to something and make it super objective, then it hasn't, it takes away that human nature that allows humans to be as profitable as they are. If not, like if you could openly talk about it and it's that mechanical, code it, turn it into a bot, become a millionaire, multi-multi-millionaire very quickly. Um, so I think, yeah, that's

How would you describe the difference between, uh, I have a subjective feeling, I have a intuition, I have a gut feeling, let's say.

When is it sensible to act on it? And what I'm referring to here is you could be like, this trade doesn't meet my plan. It's not a tick in the boxes I need, but I have a feeling it's going to go up, so I'm going to buy.

I'd never do that though.

Right. So this is what I explore, like, when is it right to deploy intuition when you have the asterisk, which is I've got the experience, I've got the market IQ, I've got the reps. When do I deploy? Another one could be, I'm in profit. Uh, it could reverse from here. I feel like I'm going to secure it here. So certain decisions of discretion can be entries, early exits, uh, delaying the exit, say I'm going to hold volume further. There's many ways you can deploy discretion. Where would you see it fit?

Okay, so discretion I use when I'm marking up levels, purely that. So, where I'm pulling my fibs from, which lows, which highs, um, how exactly I'm pulling my, uh, my volume profiles, stuff like this. Once I've got my levels, then subjectivities out of it. Um, then, then it's out of it. I'm entering my limit order, I'm going to put stop loss, um, here. Uh, and then once it's moved one to one, and then it does come back into it, if we do have a big impulse move. But I never like, um, I'll never like close early because I'm, I'm getting cold feet or anything like that. I'll only close early. Um, that 10 to 30% of the position. I leave that for subjectivity. I've, I'm allowing myself, um, I'm giving myself 10 to 30% of my position to be like, okay, I know what I'm doing this, that, and the other, but I'm not getting cocky, and I'm not giving myself 70% of my overall position to play around with because, you know, there's, I don't want to get cocky as well. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I'm not perfect. This, this key level, uh, around the volume. I'm interested in this one because, uh, I, I trade forex, so not quite gold that you are trading. But, uh, when I initially got into it, I didn't know about volume. And then, um, uh, this is when I was trading just on MT4. Now, then when I got TradingView, the preset settings includes a volume profile. So I thought, oh, TradingView has put this on, this must be very important. So then I became like, very solidified. I've got to use volume. Uh, and I would see, okay, price action and volume, they are, they are correlating. This, there must be something here. I watched some videos on it, and then I came to realize that volume, uh, is different to volume indicators in forex because volume, uh, implies this is the all the buying orders in the market. This is all the selling orders. This is the difference in their pressure. And usually people in options or futures, they're really using this to see order flow, to sense absorption, or sense, uh, you know, strength from one side or the other. And when I learned that, okay, the volume in the forex is simply the price action has been turned into an indicator and representing in a volume profile as opposed to, okay, this is the centralized orders, these are all the buyers and sellers. So then when I realized, okay, all I've really done here is got an indicator to tell me what price is doing in a different way. I might as well stick to price. So then I removed it because forex doesn't have real volume that we can read and access. What is it like in gold or how are you using volume specifically?

So volume for me is simply a framework to work from. It means that that middle area, the, uh, the value area, I'm staying out of. I don't want to be in there. I don't want to be in the chop. So it removes a lot of, um, uh, a lot of that chop and means I'm only getting in at extremes. And that's where I want to be at. I want to be at extremes. I don't want price to hit my level and and stay there for a bit. I want it to just hit my level and super volatile reaction. And a lot of my levels, um, do often get like to the pip. It sounds like you're using Fibonacci as well. And Fibonacci can be super accurate, literally to the pip. So volume is just to give me a framework. I don't use like volume on the on the bottom of TradingView. When I, um, when I started trading, I just thought that was useless and I got rid of that. That was mainly for, you know, like you say, in options and futures, and I think mainly breakout traders making sure, um, you know, the, the move has got some follow-through there. Um, so I, I don't use that. Uh, and again, it just gives me a framework to work from, which I think is important, you know, coming to a blank canvas, um, you need to, uh, be able to put your structure. Some people use trend lines, some people use whatever it is, uh, supply demand, whatever. I like to use my, uh, volume profiles. It allows me to give, uh, structure to what's actually going on on the chart.

So, uh, a belief of mine is that, uh, key levels are great, and and people can define them in a million ways. I see a trend line, therefore this zone is optimal. I see a support level, therefore this zone. I see a demand area, this zone. Fibonacci, this zone. There's a million ways to describe zones, and a lot of every day.

Yeah. And, and all of them often will have a reaction because price doesn't move in straight lines. So price will, in a bearish market, go have bullish portions in a bearish market. They're called retracements. So these retracements often will line up with a key level, a Fibonacci level, a support and resistance, whatever, because price in the end has to bounce off something. And if you have 20 lines on your screen, well, price is going to bounce on some of them. So with all of these things, whatever people use for zones, it is what it is. I more focus on a few other things, but they'll be usually lower time frame oriented or reaction confirmation oriented. I'll leave that for now. What I want to get at here is, uh, before we explore your entry protocol with your volume and your divergence, it seems I want to hear your thoughts on Fibonacci because my first three years of trading, or two and a half years, I was using Fibonacci a lot, but what there was a few, let's say concerns I had. Number one was the Fibonacci level is okay, let's trade the 61.8, and let's do it on a 15 minute or 4 hour time frame, but then it would never be like the Fibonacci level would be the Fibonacci level plus or minus a bit. Like give it a bit of breathing room, but then the next Fibonacci level was right here with its own brea breathing room. So I'm like, these are kind of overlapping. And then when you have 61.8, 70, 80, and whatever the other fibs are, and they all have a bit of a buffer. Next thing you know, it's like all of this area could be a Fibonacci level. And then all I really realize is, okay, it's, is buy low, sell high, is essentially what we've done here.

What is it in the Fibonacci that you'd like?

So what there, um, so 0.5, 32, I don't use, I don't don't concern myself with those on lower time frames. They're super, super, uh, weak. They don't show a good retracement at all. So I, I completely stick with the 618, and I actually use the 086 sometimes, like occasionally. But what you've said there to do with the levels kind of lining up, that's where, uh, the intuition comes in. That's where the, the mastery comes in, is knowing which fibs to to line up because I, I really don't have that many levels on my chart. In the morning, I mark up maybe, um, maybe two levels. That's it. That's it. And sometimes price doesn't come to them. And it is what it is. I don't care. Um, so I haven't got a million levels on. I just look for the highest confluence zones that are in the, in the direction of the trend. I establish that by impulse move into a range. Okay, we're looking for, we're looking for buys. Uh, if we do, uh, form a high, form a low, and then we take out the high and the low, then I'm all right getting into sells as well there, but I really don't have that many levels on the chart, literally two maximum.

So, with the, the preferred Fibonacci levels, number one, why those ones? Uh, is there something within there, or is it just a probability thing? Like, what is it in the Fibonacci that you like?

So those from my experience, one have just been the strongest, and then two, just looking at the chart objectively, is a 382 going to be that substantial of a retracement? Like, it just doesn't, it doesn't look like it for me, especially on those lower time frames. On higher time frames, yes. Um, I'll happily have the 382 on and the 0.5 on and use those higher time frame levels on the lower time frames. Um, but as far as lower time frames, I just think they're, they're not as substantial levels, nowhere near, especially compared to the 618.

Hey Titans, let's take a quick break from the episode to talk about a sponsor and partner of the show that is Ola Prime. Now, a lot of traders have been talking about Ola Prime because they were recently the winner of the fastest payout prop award in the IFX Expo here in Dubai. And something that you don't see so often is that they are backed by their own brokerage firm, Ola Prime Markets. And a few things that I love about Ola Prime is that they have offers for futures, forex, and crypto traders. And most importantly, they allow you to trade on over eight platforms. And further, they do a 95% profit split, basically unheard of, which means whatever profit you make, you keep 95% of it. And most importantly, because of their reward, they're one of the only prop firms that offer a 1-hour payout through a structured 10-point 1-hour payout system. Your payouts are practically on demand, which means you can spend more time on the charts trading, withdraw your profits, and go back to the markets. With all these steps, measures, and awards in place, they are truly redefining transparency and trust in the prop space. So, if you want to work with a prop that you can trust and a partner of the show, click the link in the description or use the code toot for Titans of Tomorrow to get the best prices and discounts that I've personally negotiated for you guys, our Titans of Tomorrow audience. With that being said, let's get back into today's episode. So I want to throw, uh, something at you. I just want to challenge your beliefs and see how you, you know, where your beliefs lie specifically.

If I'm to do an analysis of a thousand impulse and retracements, any currency, in fact, let's do all on gold. If I'm saying a thousand impulse and retracements on gold that go on to continue bullish. So impulse, retracement, continuation, and I measure how far did each retracement go, and then we say, okay, some of them would have a 10% retracement and then continue. That's just a super bullish market. You'll have other times where it did a 99% retracement and then continue bullish. So, we just had a heavy retracement. But how often do you have a 10% or a 99% retracement? Pretty low. No, that's not usually the case. And then when, uh, you plot how many of them are around the 50%, the the midline, there'll be more than a 10% or 99. How many would be 61.8? How many would be 70? You realize, okay, a lot of them would be here, and not many are the outliers. And so you just form a nice bell curve, a normal distribution. And when I realized that in general, retracements that go on to make new impulses, they're going to be retracing around the 50, 60, 70% and then going on to make a new higher high. And therefore, when I look at the Fibonacci, all of this is really representing is

the same bell curve of probability that retracements tend to happen around this area. My key word here being area, uh, because is there anything more important about 61 versus a 62 or a 63, or are we just looking in the vicinity of around 60 to 70? Uh, therefore, for me, making a a zone of reversal being anywhere in a discount below the 50% plus other things I prefer, or is there something in the actual level, the Fibonacci level itself, or are you using as a guide?

So I do think you've said something really good there. Is um, it's not an exact level. Again, I've got like a a zone on, but from my experience, the 618 is often respected within a couple pips. It is a very, very respected, precise level and not a zone. The 618 to me is is a level. It is a just a very, very strong level, but I will form a zone with that and other confluences there. Um, and I think what you've said there with the with the bell curve as well, it does just show a nice retracement that more often than not does continue, uh, to continue up. So now that we've understood your building blocks, uh, moving towards the key levels, the trend, the consolidation, the the Fibonacci, everything that we've built up to this point, let's say now, uh, we've arrived to the day and everything is lined up with these boxes ticked. What is your process from time of day, execution criteria, the indicators? How do you take it from I've got levels and zones, I'm liking this area today. What is next?

So I'll mark up my charts, um, around London open. One of the reasons I love being in Dubai, it's the timing is really nice here. Um, but so I'll mark it up around London open. Set my alerts, you know, quite a bit above the level, just when we've broke a low or something, which would make me assume that we're going to continue down in that way. Once we've uh, once I've got that alert, then I'll check my indicator and I'll check for just bullish divergences as we approach the level. So, I want to see momentum and VWAP. So, I've got VWAP in terms of an oscillator. I want to see that moving up, um, in, you know, the opposite direction as we're coming down. So, I've I've heard VWAP around. I'll be honest, I haven't looked into it. Can you describe a bit what is VWAP?

So, VWAP's volume weighted average price. It's it's similar to um, similar to an EMA, but it's just um, it's it's where the volume is basically the average of the day. Um, and then the

So, it's combining a EMA with a volume profile?

Pretty much. Um, and it's basically used the thesis behind it is it's used by institutions to place, uh, large orders because, you know, it's where the majority of the the volume is. Um, and it resets at the start of each day. Um, so it's it's always up to date. It's not very, uh

Are you looking for some sort of overlap or is it like overbought over?

No. No. So, so the VWAP, chances are when we trend below the VWAP because a lot of people, um, uh, a lot of institutions, whatever, have bots at the the VWAP. Um, so it really pushes price down. So if we start the day, um, below VWAP, chances are, and you can see this on your charts, we continue in that direction. And it, once we break above the VWAP, we normally have like a retest and we'll continue in that direction. Um, so one of the ways I use VWAP is once we reset, that the point where we reset from is also another level I use. So let's say, you know, gold's down here and it and it comes up, VWAP resets. VWAP's still down here because it's, you know, it's still a bit lagging. It resets up here. This level here is another level that I like to use. But then also I use VWAP in an oscillator, an oscillator form, uh, oscillates above and below zero. Uh, and that I can form divergences with. So, you know, price is coming, uh, down, volume's going up, something like this. Um, and and that's what I use. But, um, a lot of people like to gravitate on to the confirmation, uh, the confirmations that I use to get into my trades. But the levels that I mark up and that that framework and and, uh, and all of that is the like 90% of the system. Um, a lot of people, I really do feel make confirmations 90% of their system and then the levels and their, um, their directional bias and everything like that is only 10%. Um, and I think that's that that's not the way to go. I think you need to have a great framework, a great bias, great levels, um, to look for, and then that's once you've already got the bias, chances are you will get a reaction from your level. It's just that extra 10% just to get basically confirmation bias, really, um, to to see your entry go.

The the divergence. So can you can you elaborate on that? Cuz divergence, I think means different things. For me, I'm I'm using it in the sense of entirely correlated assets, like maybe a gold and a dollar, or in my case, I'm using Euro dollar, pound dollar, and you know that they're very correlated, but they might slightly sometimes DPEG. And that temporary dep-pegging divergence between EU making a higher high and GU making a lower high. Okay, there's some difference here. We can use this as information. Yeah. Is that your deployment or is

So on on gold, let's say we're we're coming down, my momentum oscillator, uh, chances are we'll be going up. So if momentum and price are coming down, then that's chances are a strong move. When momentum's going up, but price is going down, I'm seeing, okay, this is, you know, uh, this move's losing momentum. Um, and and so that gives me just confirmation bias. Basically.

This is a this is strictly a divergence between your indicator and price. Yeah. And and the indicator being only the VWAP?

Yeah, VWAP and the momentum. So, um, both of them. So that's what I look for. And again, the indicators are, like you say, just a vehicle to view price action through. I've had them on my charts for so long that I've just built up the mastery, intuition, whatever you want to call it, um, to view that indicator and see how price will react. It just gives me a nicer way of viewing price action as we're approaching a level. Yeah, I think what you're describing here with the divergence with the indicator is Fabio Valentina did a podcast with Andrea too, and maybe even Omar. In fact, a lot of people that using volume order flow with price action. Uh, they basically say, "Okay, price is showing me bullish. Is this a bullish move because there's no sellers, or is this a bullish move because there's a lot of buyers?" And therefore, it's like, what is the volume? What is the orders? What is the momentum behind this movement in price? Because not all bullish candles mean bullish price action.

Exactly. So, I think this is basically what you're doing with the indicator instead.

Yeah. Yeah. And, um, yeah, I completely agree. And I, uh, I've recently, uh, watched, um, a video of Fabio, something that I, uh, thought of this before, to wanted to I wanted to say it before I came on.

And it's basically, uh, something really, really interesting I saw in a video. It was like an over-the-shoulder chart walkthrough with with Fabio. Um, and something I saw which was very interesting was he was like calling price to the tea, you know, Fabio. And, um, and he wasn't executing on those trades, though. And I, I was like, I do this. I do this. And a lot of people because when I'm, I'm going live, when I'm calling price action, I'm doing this. I'm, and I'm not taking those trades. And that's because I'm getting myself like aligned with the market, if you will. Um, and so I found that really interesting. I think that's a really like, uh, I haven't seen it too often, but when I saw him do it, I was like, I do this as well. This is really interesting. Like calling price and, um, uh, and just basically getting yourself aligned with price. You're not taking those trades, but you're getting yourself aligned with the market. I think super important. Um, and I think, yeah, that's something I wanted to bring up and

It is very nice because, uh, I think the difference between a beginner or a casual trader or a professional is a few very concrete things. Number one is typically a professional trader is not predicting, they're reacting. So, you can predict your key levels ahead of time. You can predict your Fibonacci ahead of time. But then when price arrives to these areas, I need to react to what I see. Meaning, in your case, divergences, time of day, London open, etc. Uh, so you're taking predictions to reactions, whereas not all predictions have the reactions. Number one. Number two is this idea of, uh, I always say a restricted trader is a profitable trader. I can, you can fab many traders can draw arrows all day long, and some of them will be to the pip, and you'll be like, and people, why didn't you take it? You called three today, you took zero trades. It's like, they didn't meet my entry criteria. So, there's a difference in what we see and what we trade. So, I think actually separating those and having a restricted part of things you actually take in the end means you have less opportunities, but the opportunities take on more quality and therefore yield the better results.

100%. I think, uh, trader is is is discipline. Being a trader is is equals discipline. Anyone can predict the market all day, really. Um, if, if we were to load up chart now and I was just to show you, you would say, "Oh, I think it's going to go this way." >> It probably would go in that direction. Um, but you can't actually, you know, take advantage of that. Um, and I think it's really, really important. The last thing on that one actually is you can have a very high degree of certainty that price will go from here to here, and we can just draw an arrow. However, the degree of certainty of where you should put your stop loss on it might not be there. Cuz you might be higher low to higher high bullish move, and then we had the retracement and it started to go bullish, and we're just sitting before that higher high, and we're like, well, there's chances are we're going to make a new higher high. It's a bullish trend. There's another 15 pips there, but where do I put a stop loss? Cuz should it be at the low all the way? Like, then it's like this trade is not worth it. Not because I don't know where it's going to go, because I don't know where to put my stop loss. So, there's multiple ways doubts can show itself.

Yeah, I I would see this all of the time, um, in the in the crypto space when I first got into got into trading, and it was, uh, Twitter at the time was full of it. And it was like, uh, people calling price to the tea, and I'm thinking, what you say price go up, price went up, where, where do you take profit? Where are you, uh, where are you putting your stop loss? It's like playing, um, that, uh, that rocket game on, um, on those gambling websites. Where do you take profit? Okay, it keeps going up. Where, where do you take profit? Where do you cut your losses? Like, without that there, it's just useless.

I've seen a lot of people online just do that of they'll just draw POI boxes and they'll draw an arrow and they'll throw that. They'll throw 10 of them on Monday. By the time it's Friday, three of them played out. They're like, "Yeah, perfectly price reactive of this box." But what time of day? What entry? What, where's the stop loss? What's the risk reward? What? Like anyone can draw lines of boxes. It's

Without without the stop loss, without taking the trade, it's I'm not going to say it's completely useless. It's good to like I said, get aligned with the market, but on the grand scheme of things, it doesn't it doesn't mean anything.

So we we talked about your entry drill, which is, uh, arriving to the key level at time of day with a divergence. I want to learn more about this divergence from you because divergence is obviously with a slight lag between price action and the indicator, and is am I correct in saying that an M5, uh, on the 5-minute time frame, the indicator, uh, will only really update? It will kind of move and oscillate until the 5-minute candle is closed, and then it'll cement, and then it's the next 5 minute. So, if you look at the 15-minute time frame, the indicator on the 15-minute time frame will lag for 15 minutes up and down, up and down, until the 15-minute candle closed, and then it cemented the indicator. Uh, so therefore, what time frame are you looking at the indicator to then determine this degree of lag, and also at what point you call it? Because something can diverge like it's a little bit lower right now. Uh, so I'm getting the divergence, but by the time the candle closes back up again, but you might have already executed before the candle cemented. So, how do you forget?

I'm not executing market order. Um, so I'm looking at the the 12-minute, the 6-minute, the 3-minute for divergences and, uh, and the 1-minute, depending on how close we are to the level. And when I see divergences actually they've formed, um, I'm not taking the trade then because I know once one divergence forms, you know, there's never really one divergence. It's not simple as one divergence. We've got the bottom in, it's it's off. It's normally divergent, divergent, divergence. Once I see that first divergence, then I'm like, okay, limit order. Then I'll continue to monitor. But we never really normally have, unless it's super high a time frame, um, one divergence and then go. Normally it's three, four divergences, but once I see that first divergence, I'm like, "Okay, momentum is going to continue diverging." Chances are price is going to continue coming down into my level. Once it hits my level, because I'm so confident in it, chances are we will get some type of reaction. Um, and and yeah.

Okay. So, for you, it's a sequence of divergences, uh, build confidence in the in the trade itself. Yeah.

And do you have a disqualification of, uh, time? Like, okay, London opens happened, but now we're 3 hours in. Is that an issue or?

Uh, so I don't I don't trade news. I don't I stay away from news. So if we've got a big news event coming out, then I'll I'll cut my I'll cut my orders. I don't want to I don't want to be anywhere near that. Uh, and that's the that's the only, uh, really thing that I'll, uh, that I'll do there.

Okay. And, uh, lastly, you mentioned you mentioned, uh, static risk. Do you ever have a any deviation away from that in terms of you have a A+ setup, it's ticking all the boxes, the key level, everything is perfect. This one I might do 2% instead of 1%. Or is it always static?

Uh, always static. I, um, I did before use like I'd have like A plus, A and B, and let's say, for example, B would be like $800. Um, A would be a,000, and then A plus would be like 1,200, um, or something like this. Uh, and I did that for a long time. Uh, and it was very, very, uh, very good. But I've just rotated now into maybe like a year ago into just pure static. It's it's nicer for me. Um, and it limits that, uh, intuition. What we said at the start to do with in intuition, subjectivity, uh, mastery. I want to pull that back. I want it, I want to be as as objective as possible. It makes things easier for me. So, less thought in that is is nicer for me. And, uh, I think static risk will help so many people. I think so, so, so many people in space are using, uh, set lot size per trade. Now, if you're trading the same pair with the same pip stop loss, by all means. Um, but most people aren't. Um, and so a set, uh, risk amount and then percentage as well. Even that, I think having a small percentage of your account converting into a pound or dollar amount and then risking that is is the way to do it. Just a set percentage amount, I think, is, uh, also not as not as optimal because, um, you know, you lose a few trades and you're you're risking less. You you take a few trades, you're risking then more, and it's all over the place. Your your risk, which I, I don't really like. And then also it comes, once you've got a decent sized account, that's that's capital. Let your your full trading account isn't going to be on your account. You know, that's working capital that you can be using.

So, um, from those angles, I do think set risk amount is is king.

Yeah, it's interesting what you mentioned of the fixed, uh, lot size on the same currency pair or whatever you're trading, uh, because then you just do a P&L at the end of the month of positive versus negative pips, and and that's one way to do it. I haven't seen too many people do it, and and I wonder why, and it might be just because, uh, on a certain trade, you have a 30 pip stop loss. Another trade, you have 15. So, you ended up doubling your risk on one trade on the other. What if the one you doubled your risk on was a loss, and the one that was half the risk was a win, and then the RS get messed up, even though your pips were up?

So, yeah, I, I completely agree with that. I think very few people actually use like a set pip stop loss. I know a few people that do. Um, but it, it depends why you confine yourself in the market. I think that's that's, uh, limiting yourself. I feel like if things are really volatile, I'm not going to have a 10 pip stop loss. Like, I want to give it a bit more breathing room. Um, and so I'm not going to do that. So, um, yeah, I think set lot size is is not optimal. I think percentage, um, it can be, it's definitely a lot better than set lot size, but I just think set risk amount is is the way to go. It's super objective. Um, and and I think it's really good.

So, so the reason I asked about this was because you mentioned you're not a fan of prop firms off camera. Um, so my usually what I see is people that are doing prop firms, they have enough buying power. They have the leverage of a 100k account, let's say. Uh, so therefore 1% risk can be more than enough, cuz that's $1,000 per trade. With one to three, you make $3,000. So the numbers are enough. Usually people

They over risk or do too high of a risk because they have a money problem. It's like I only got $100 in my account. Uh, therefore, even, uh, one, well, 1% risk, I might be able to execute in terms of minimum lot size, but it's a scaling issue. People scale their risk because they want to make more profits, and prop firms tend to solve that. But if you are not usually using prop firms, uh, with just 1% risk, you therefore require a lot of capital. So, how does someone begin, uh, in terms of actually making meaningful money?

So I think, you know, good point you mentioned, they might not be able to execute on their trades, which is, you know, uh, is unfortunate. But I think if you can manage to risk £10, £15 a trade, you know, as long as you're happy to to to lose that, is obviously important. I think keeping it at that £10, at that £15. So, it's not varying. I think if, uh, if people to look at their trade history, I think they'd see their losses are just going all over the place. And I just think it's, it's just it can't be done. I did think before, um, I need to get this done. Plot on a graph. Um, give, uh, give the graph like a 1% edge, um, and you risk let's say £10 on every single trade, 1% edge, uh, one time on risk reward. I think it would it would nicely curve up, you know, excluding, uh, spreads, fees, and everything. But, um, if you gave it, um, risk between, uh, £5 and £15, 1% edge, I think it would it would go all over the place. That's that's that's not predictable. Um, I, I don't want something that isn't, you know, a nice, a nice curve. It'd be, yeah, been.

That makes a lot of sense. Uh, and another thing that the reason I wanted to ask about your risk is something that I learned even myself only recently was this idea of what are the chances you have X number of losses in a row in a 100 trade sample size? So, the chances at a 50% win rate that you'll have one loss is what? Is there? It's going to happen in 100 trades, you're going to take a loss for sure. %? But then what are the chances you take two losses in a row? Well, there's a number there. What are the chances you take five losses in a row? 10 losses in a row? And you start and then there's a, there's someone that did a table breaking it all down, and you realize with a 50% win rate, 60% rate, what surprised me, even with a 70 to 80% win rate, the chances of five losses in a row across 100 trades is like 40%, if I'm not wrong. So, you start to realize in 100 trades, it's pretty much going to happen. It's a guarantee that I will take four losses in a row, five losses in a row. So, if I'm someone that is modifying my risk, uh, now if I'm in a losing period, I've taken five losses in a row. The chances that my sixth trade is going to be a loss is less because six losses in a row, seven losses in a row, it's not going to go on forever. There is a number there. But if I start to size down because I've taken five losses in a row and 5% in the hole, I start reducing my risk. So instead of 1%, it's half a percent. Now, that next trade, which is probably going to be a win, the next trade could, you know, the probabilities are good. You spend longer in the hole because you're reducing le you're reducing your risk. So your winning trades are half the amount of the win. So now what would have been two weeks, three weeks and as a recovery becomes a month, two months. And someone was saying, well, you reduce risk to help your psychology. Well, spending a month in the hole is probably bad for your psychology too. What's what's the answer here?

Yeah, I, I agree with that. So that that comes from risking, uh, percentage. So, you know, the more you get into that hole, the more it's harder to dig out of that hole, whereas risking a set pound amount, you're always, you know, you're always risking the same amount. Something that you, you said there though, um, to do with, you know, if you take X amount of losses in a row, um, the chances of your next trade being a win, I think each, each trade is, you know, statistically independent. Um, and I think that's, um, that that alone, uh, people can tend to be like, "Okay, I've had three losses. This next one has to be a win." And then they're sloping down. They're like, "Okay, I'm, uh, you know, the amount I'm risking is getting less and less and less. The amount I can make is getting less and less and less." Ah, the chance that I'm going to win on this next trade is higher, so I'm going to risk more on it. And then it goes up. When in actuality, it's it's probably confirmation bias. It's like

The roulette wheel four times row just happened to be red. The table must be rigged. Let's go all in cuz the next one should be red. Well, it's it's another it's another spin. It's a unique moment. There is also that consideration. Same where they'll say, "No, but the roulette wheel is random." Whereas trading is a skill and someone like, "Oh,

I shot a basketball. I got it five times in a row. I'm on a hot streak. I'm on form. So, let me bet the house on the sixth one going in." Again, it doesn't work like that because even though it's there's elements of skill involved, there's just chance. Every time there is always going to be that chance, and it's independence irrespective of what happened prior, and that is the market.

It should it should be as well. It should be irrespective of what previously happened because that's when you, you know, you bring emotion into it. If I've had, you know, uh, five wins in a row, I shouldn't be any different to if I had five losses in a row. I shouldn't be any different. My mentality shouldn't be any different, and my risk shouldn't be any different in my opinion.

So, it shouldn't be, but obviously there's a humans element. Human element. So I want to understand, let's say in a losing period specifically, but even in a winning period, let's say you've had a hot run or a bad run, uh, will you just show up unfazed the next day, or will you say, you know what, I've been slaughtered here, I need a break, I need to clear my head? Will you ever do that, or is just you got to show up to play probability?

Um, I, I just show up, really. I, I don't, um, I'm, I'm quite emotionless, uh, in, in, in everything. I don't really, uh, uh, I try not to show too much life. When I got into trading, was very up and down. I think, um, I think crypto, to be honest, completely, completely burned all sense of emotions. So, so now I'm, I'm like, okay, I don't care what prior happened. I think it comes from, uh, it comes from confidence in, in what you can do. Once you've proven it to yourself, and you, and you know, like you know full well that that you can do this, then what, what happened previously, what happened this week, I, I don't care. I, I know I can do this. I've proven it to myself. Comes from experience.

Crypto days coming in.

Yeah. Yeah.

I saw this meme, man. It was like, uh, when the market is 10, 15% down, and a guy investing in the stock market, he's panicking. And the guy is a crypto trader, he's like, "I'm used to 90% down."

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that is that is kind of, uh, what it is. I'm not too phased. I know that, um, I know I'm confident in my system. I'm confident in myself. So, I don't really, um, feel that. Obviously, you know, the human element does come in, and I do feel something, but I just try and ignore it. Try and keep things objective. There have been weeks where, um, you know, price just hasn't gone to it. So then it gets to, you know, Thursday, I'm like, I'm not, I'm not going to mark up these two days. I'm taking these two days out, especially on Fridays. I do normally take Fridays out, just from journaling, which is something that I've found very valuable. Um, I've just noticed that Fridays tend to be my worst days, and so I'm just like, okay, I'll just avoid. Uh, I want to hear your now thoughts on prop firms. You mentioned you're not a fan. Let's get into why.

Okay. So, large amount of prop firms are just they're against the trader. So, a lot of them don't have, uh, they don't have the back end, and they're simply challenge revenue, uh, challenge revenue businesses. So, their revenue is let's say a million pound from challenges. Um, if they pay out 400,000, they make 600k in profit. Uh, if they pay out 200,000, it's 800k in profit. Um, and so there, a lot of them are incentivized to just screw the trader up with, uh, malicious rules, tough challenges, and a lot of it's just very, um, it's, it's crazy to to get a new trader to make, you know, 15% in, some of them have like time limits on as well. It's just, it's, it's out of the question, or they, they would, they would have to build bad habits. In my opinion, a trading platform should force you into good habits. I think prop firms could, um, force you into good habits. However, how they're set up, a lot of them, not all of them, but a lot of them are set up nowadays, they they just, they force traders into bad habits, over risking. So then they get the challenge passed and everything like that. And, uh, and I just, I just don't agree with that. I've spoken to a variety of guests on the show, and a unanimous common denominator between all of them is the emphasis they put on data and actually knowing the inner workings and the insight of your edge and your performance. That's why I'm proud to bring a partner of the show, Tradzella, the number one journaling, back testing, and all-in-one insight experience created by traders for traders. What Tradezella really gives you is deep insights about your trading that would ordinarily not be visible. Whether it's through understanding your trade types and playbooks, or even insights powered by artificial intelligence through Zela AI. Whether you trade forex, futures, cryptos, the stock market, it all seamlessly connects to Tradzella. So there is no additional work. You've seen me reference it dozens of times, and all of the benefits I've had in my trading from the insights I found from my Tradzilla. So join myself and thousands of other viewers of the show. You'll get the best discount using the link in the description or code toot for Titans of Tomorrow. I think it's very true what you say of like the habits you build, let's say to make meaningful money with profits, you spend a couple of years, the moment you transition, those payouts to then your own account, uh, you've got bad habits, and they're going to be hard to undo. And, and I think it's also maybe just a dream that to successfully take a million dollars from from payouts and then put that into your live account and successfully grow that for the rest of your career, let's say.

There's people out there doing it. They're anomalies, but they don't define the rule, which is the majority of people, and it becomes a lot harder. The the thing that maybe I want to question is

This idea of like, uh, conflict of interest where the prop firm is incentivized to increase their profit margin, trip up the trader. Uh, does that not seep through industry-wide in the sense of brokers too? They're running a B-book and therefore instead of evaluation challenge fees, it's your deposit, and they'll trip them up just the same. They'll do slippage. They'll do widen spread, and all these things so that they can keep that deposit, and then the the withdrawals, the payouts, whatever you call it, is their fe is their cost of business, and whatever is that difference between the payouts requested from broker traders versus the deposits into the broker. That gap in the middle is their profit margin, the same as a prop firm.

And then when you zoom out even further, and you realize, well, the market is the same because the market, there's not money created or destroyed. It's, uh, winning traders are paid from losing traders. The prop firm is a closed loop, the broker is a closed loop, and so is the whole market as a whole. So, where do you stand in that?

I, I agree with that. Uh, I think the the market as a whole does want to, uh, stitch up the traders, and I, uh, I, I make this analogy quite a few times. Um, and to people of my life, they're going to they're going to have heard this all the time, but I reference trading to to to a war. Uh, and I say it is like, it is like a battlefield. Um, and you know, if I put you on a on a trading account, and we'll get, we'll cycle back into prop firm and brokers, but if I put you on a on a trading account, a lot of people, you know, they play around with it. They do this, they do that. If I put you on a battlefield, you're not going to do that. You're going to take cover, and you're going to, um, like try and secure yourself and stay alive. And, uh, and what we do in the markets is we try and stay alive and then pick off the enemies that we can pick off. And that's what we're trying to do. If I put you on a battlefield, you're not going to run in, Hail Mary. Um, you're going to try and survive. And I think that's that was just a good little, uh, good little side note.

I think that is a great lesson, especially for beginner traders. Your goal should not be how can I make 100% this year? How can I make 15% to pass a profit? Goal number one of a trader is like, don't die, don't lose money. Cuz the moment you get to a break-even trader, your habits are probably better. Your psychology is in check. And now you can think, okay, how do I carve out an edge? I like that a lot.

So, yeah, I, I say it a lot. Number one rule of a trader, and I ask this to a lot of people, what, what is, um, when I do like a webinar or something, get people to type in chat, what is the number one rule of a trader? Um, like, what is the goal of a trader? And everyone starts like, profit, profit, profit, profit. Survive. It's to not lose money. Focus on making money. Like, rule number one is don't lose money. And I think that ties into prop firm and, um, and brokers, because on a broker, you're not penalized for not losing money. Um, but then, you know, you can be penalized for making money. Whereas on prop firms, a lot of cases, um, if you're just break-even and you're surviving, you're penalized in the sense that, um, you know, you pay for the challenge and you don't pass the, you don't pass the challenge. Um, and it's like, okay, I did a job of a trader, number one rule, I didn't lose money, but then I've lost money on the challenge. So, I'm penalized for surviving, which I think penalizing someone from surviving the markets, we know how bad the markets are. Um, penalizing someone for surviving, I don't think is a good, a good thing. Um, I am coming around to it now with, uh, I think a lot of people are doing a great job of shedding light, uh, on, uh, a lot of prop firms. I do think there are a few out there who are doing it, um, well, and they just, they understand, like you've said, majority are going to lose, but we can, we can pay out those who are winning, and there's nothing wrong with that, and their profit margins won't be as juicy as the sketchy ones, but they can have a good reputation. So, I think the, the newer, smaller influencer-owned prop firms, it's very easy for them to just do malicious things, or especially non-influencer ones where no one knows who's the owner, they can just rug pull it, and, and you know, why not? That will be their thought process. But if you look at any

Top 20 prop firm, they have a reputation. They have usually the founders are known. Uh, so therefore, their goal is not to do fraud because, my forex funds, you get investigated, or their goal is not to just trip up traders because they lose their reputation and long-term they'll lose the revenue. So, what I think is actually going on for these denied payouts or sometimes weird rules or predatory rules that are sometimes newly coming in, it's simply because too many people are making payouts, and their profit margins are thinning. So, therefore, to continue to pay out traders, they need to add these rules. Uh, and you just, it's, it's a necessary evil, let's say, just like the brokers will do these at times on on an event where everybody is long, the brokers like, "Okay, we're going to make a loss here." They'll just do a quick phantom wick, take everyone out. It's like, we solved an issue. So, the all these necessary evils are here. No one's denying that. But the reason I want to question on this is, is this enough to deter you from the opportunity? Because every prop firm, even the top three, they've denied payouts. They've, uh, they've blocked traders who have made too much money from. I won't say names to protect myself from the biggest of the business. Everyone knows I know who down the list, every firm has denied, deny pay, uh, done weird rules at times. Some of them very brash about it. It's like, we do trailing draw down, and the only benefit of that is to benefit the profit, no one else. So, certain things are super predatory, certain things are questionable, and the the bad behavior is is across the board.

But then if you look at how often did the top five do these things? If they're doing it here and there?

But then majority of traders do get paid out, and some of these big ones, they paid out $hundred million plus in payouts.

So, for the average trader that is doing a good job, they'll get paid out of a 100 payouts, or let's even call out of 10 payouts, they'll maybe get denied ones. So, it's fine. Like, it's not, it's not to a point where this is the wild west. This is a scam. This is fraud. Let's stay away. Why do you still say it's not worthwhile? It's risky. Stick to the brokers.

For, okay, for a lot of beginners, I think staying away because of that, building a bad habit, getting that, uh, pushing you to achieve this unrealistic challenge straight away. I feel like it's just as bad as those signal groups who who want you to blow your account. It's the same thing. But I feel like, you know, the the optimal route for a trader is the three-step plan, which is, see consistency. I don't care what pound amount is. I couldn't care less. Just see consistency. Then leverage that consistency on a larger amount of capital, and then cycle it back into a live account. And you can do that. And I've become more open to the idea idea now, 100%. Um, but it's just, you know, that that one in 10 payouts is still, you know, it still shouldn't happen, given the given the profit margins of a lot of, uh, prop firms, but a lot of people are happy with it, you know, they're given the opportunity, um, they're given the opportunity to trade on this large amount of capital, and so it is, like you say, a necessary evil, which I think people are okay with, um, but there's some things which are just, which are just not okay.

Yeah. I mean, the flip side of it is also, you've had people that would have never had $100,000 in a trading account.

Yeah.

But they did it, and they made 20,000, $30,000 in pounds. You see it all the time, all day long. So, yes, there's some horror stories, but there's also some amazing stories. So, then it's like, okay, where do we stand on this as as a whole? Yes, there, there shouldn't be this, you know, these things that they're doing.

But in a capitalistic free market situation, uh, these things are happening. So, now we have, am I going to use it as a tool, or am I going to not use it as a career on props? Is a tool to get capital to then

100%, 100%. That was the, you know, the third step is funnel that, uh, prop firm payouts into live account and scale that, um, and, and, yeah, I completely, um, I completely agree with that. Something I was going to say, um, what was it? I was going to play devil's advocate for, uh, and actually go with, uh, with prop firms, but I've forgotten what it was.

No worries, then if it comes back to you, we'll jump on it. I want to close off the topic, uh, the conversation, even with this idea, somebody who is two, three years in their trading and still haven't made it. They put in time, they put in effort, that's a given, but they haven't seen reward yet. In fact, I've also come across traders like, I've been trading for 10 years. I'm like, you've been trading longer than me, and they still haven't made a penny. What is your, what is the relationship between time in the market and profit, if there is any?

Okay. Uh, just going back to that previous point of, uh, prop firms, um, playing devil's advocate for prop firms, I do think the actual, uh, that necessary evil in the prop firm space is actually overexaggerated in a lot of cases because a lot of people, you know, they do break the rules, they do do this, and, you know, they're beginner, most of most in the market are. So, I feel like that's that has been massively amplified, and it, it is actually a very, very, very small amount of the industry that is actually doing those malicious things. It's just that a lot of people, um, they confuse, uh, just outright malician with, okay, you did actually break the rule. And I feel like that's

This is also, it goes to a few things. So, number one, I've seen that an account, let's say an influencer does a post of, "I got scammed by a prop firm." Usually behind the scenes, the profit will just pay them for not having the bad PR. So, we got to be aware. Prop firms are reactive to their reputation, and if they're going to take a reputational hit, they will fix up. This this screams to me, they're not going to just deny payouts left, right, and center, because then no one's going to trust them, and their business goes to zero. So, they'll happily pay out if, if they can afford it, uh, for the longevity of the business. So, this, you know, left, right, center bad behavior, it's, it's not even aligned with them. That's not even their goal. So, why is it happening? It's because they'll have liquidity issues. Liquidity issues means, uh, back in the day, you have to pass with 10% and 5% in 30 days. Now it's like, uh, 8% and 5% whenever you want, and the rules are getting easier. The leverage is higher, and so forth. So, all of these things means payouts have gone up. They've had to do this to get more sales. So, they're doing all these, uh, gimmicks and marketing campaigns and and discounts and whatever, just to get more traffic in, but their payouts are going up. So, we have to realize, okay, if the payouts are going to top up, and it's a fragile model at this point, which it wasn't two, three years ago, uh, we as a consumer should not say, you know, f the prop firms, they, we want them to be a healthy business, because the healthier they are as a business, the more secure your payouts are. When I look into, let's say, an account with 500 followers and it has 300k views, cuz they're calling out a big prop firm, it's like, this big prop scam me XYZ, here's all the proof. And then you click on the proof, you're like, uh, you traded, uh, 30 seconds into the no news window, but they clearly say on their website, don't trade news. And, okay, you can say that's a bit harsh. They were only 30 seconds into it, but like, where's the line? You broke the rule. I know you only just broke the rule, but you did break the rule, and controversy spreads, and it goes viral. So,

You're touching on a really, really, really good topic there, which is everyone focuses on the malicious activities of the prop firm and the and the brokers, but the malicious activities are the influencers who can say and literally ruin a prop firm. Um, and, you know, a legitimate prop firm, everything's all good, and this influencer can stand over them, and, you know, they're doing everything right, but then they can say, okay, if you don't, you know, do this, if you don't give me these payouts or give me, do this, this, this, um, then I can make this post, like a post you've just said. So, and not a lot of people are aware of the malicious activities that come on from the influencer side as well, which, which can be just as bad.

If we talk about malicious activities. So, obviously, the prop firm doing bad.

Things get the limelight and they are doing it, but probably as you said, not as much of a scale as we see because there is amplification online. But you also have to be aware, people watching. I mean, uh, because I've spoken to a lot of prop founders from many countries, and there is now organized crime attacking prop firms, just like, uh, organized crime, mafia would go and exploit casinos or go exploit certain. They're exploiting one prop told me there's Albanian mafia that is now targeting prop firms because they're either reverse trading or certain, uh, certain things that they find a discrepancy in, whatever they're doing, they're just exploiting them.

So then a lot of prop firms now introduce risk interviews to say, okay, are you really a trader, or do you fit the bill of someone that is just doing their job of like, you're just told to do XYZ, reverse trading, you don't know anything about the market? So, the, there is a constant battle between honest users, prop firms, good intentions and bad intentions, and then corrupt users. And in the end, usually the, the innocent user is going to suffer. But if you're aware of all of these things and you have your own safeguards, it becomes a very worthwhile tool.

I think I, I, I agree with that. Uh, I think prop firms definitely, you know, pushing more the, I always say, you know, the, the most underrated business model nowadays. Um, that I think is is just really important is just building community. I feel like it's so valuable, and I feel like if prop firms really focus on building that community, so then if they do have to deny a payout for whatever reason, it's not just unknown business, you know, this, that, and the other, big, big business denying little guy payout. It's no, look, we're all together, you know, full transparency, everyone can talk together. Look, we're denying your payout, we can't do this because of this, you know, just and just more, uh, create that that community around the prop firm. Not a lot of prop firms are doing that. Um, and I think it, it, it can really help their business model. And, you know, if a prop firm, you know, you're in their community, you're talking to admin members, and you, you understand what's going on, uh, and you feel part of that family, if you will, then you're going to, if a payout gets denied, you're going to be more, you know, understanding.

But also it's nice when you can see the founders. It's like, if you're here showing your face, you can't hide. In fact, it's showing a level of good intent because if you're off the grid, off the radar, uh, and then you, you rug pull and disappear, there's no consequence. So when someone, a founder is showing their face, they're doing person events there. They have a Discord where you can speak freely. All of these things are more conducive to a more trusting environment. Not a definitive rule, but there we go.

Yeah, there's been a few which the the faces are there, but everything online now, you can, you know, uh, things can disappear quickly and, you know, people have low attention spans. So, um.

Yeah, let's say some tangible advice to take away from this segment is, stick with the top few prop firms, like those ones that have been around for years, that have millions of people watching the every move. So when a rule change happens and they announce it, if the consumer is not happy, they make chaos on Twitter. So these guys are the most accountable because they have the most eyes on them. They have the most liquidity. These top five prop firms now, they have a war chest of liquidity sitting, not for like one month run rate. They'll be sitting on a one year worth of payouts. If their payout, if their revenue drop to zero, they can still afford to pay out for six months to one year. This is a healthy business. These guys are not here for a quick cash grab. These guys are here to exit for billions to a broker or an oander, you know, no, the other way around. FTM Motor, but the point being, these, these are, they're going for massive companies, they have big teams, they have big fiduciary responsibilities. And the regulator is not, you know, regulating the space, but they do watch for fraud, just like happened with MyForexFunds. Got too big and they did fraud, or claimed allegedly did fraud, they got investigated and the assets frozen. So these big players are aware of this. So if you want, if you want 5 million in funding, yeah, you're going to have to go down and buy some of the crappier ones. But if you want 300k in funding, you can actually stick with one prop firm that has a great reputation or diversify yourself and say 100k from the top three each. I've got enough capital to make a good amount of money and I'm with the people that have the most trust. And you can use a comparison website like, uh, Profit Match.

Yeah. Do your research. Are the, are the payouts real? What are the consumers actually saying? Like, get a real gauge. Are the conditions as you want them? Because a swing trader might want these conditions, a scalper might want these conditions. So pick the prop firm that is suitable for your style. So, uh, that's the actionable takeaway.

I agree completely with that. Uh, top ones, lot of liquidity. Um, it's good if you can actually speak to people, real people, not just like, uh, advert testimonials, but real people who have actually had testimonials through people you, you trust. And you don't need a ton of, you don't need to go from, you know, uh, making whatever, uh, job to on millions in funding straight away. 100k, 50k, 70k, 80k, whatever it is, can change your life. Like it can add a good income from you and you can always scale up. Don't try and start at the top. Scale, scale up. It's important.

Yeah. So, just, uh, finish off the conversation. Uh, I want to hear your thoughts on time in the game, cuz a lot of people like, "Bro, trust me, I'm back testing 12 hours a day. Bro, I've been doing this for 3 years. It's not working out." So, when people put in time and effort and years and resources and all of these things and don't see results, why is that?

Yeah. So, first off, everyone's, everyone's different. That's the cliche thing to say. Everyone's got a different mentality, different psychology. Uh, how you went through, how you went through life, your, uh, susceptiveness to, uh, gambling and, uh, and all of these, you know, not very good things. That all impacts your, uh, how, how you're going to be in the markets. And a lot of people, uh, like I said, at the very beginning, are actually they're learning the wrong things. You know, it feels like you're doing a lot. It's like you get in a car and you put it in second gear and you're trying to drive, and you think, I've been putting my foot down all day. Why isn't it going? You're in second gear. Okay. You need to put it in first gear and go off. And so a lot of people are sat there, you know, in the, in the car in second gear, and they're wondering why they're not going anywhere. And that's because they're learning analogy.

Yeah. Thank you. Uh, and that's because they're, yeah, they're, they're learning the wrong things. So they need to take a step back, look at who they're learning off, and look at what they actually see. I think it's important. Um, I, I say this a lot as well. Um, look at what you actually see, you know? Um, like take a step back. Do you actually understand why you're learning this? Like, why does that work? If you don't know the why, it's not going to work. You need to know why, why is that working? Like, try and understand it more. Don't just follow someone and, and, uh, because that, that won't really work. And that comes back to signals as well. If you don't know why you're entering, what, what you should not be entering. Uh, and so, yeah, I think, I think that's why I think a lot of people are just banging their heads against, uh, against the wrong door. Um, and so they need to just take a switch. And it's hard to do. It's hard to do. There are so many people in the space who are teaching the wrong things, and it's, it's really, really, really common. So people just need to take a step back, look at what's out there, look at what makes sense, who's got the credibility, who's got the achievements, who's, who's, you know, got the, the, the true, you know, tangible stuff. Uh, and I'm not just talking about, I'm not talking about cars. I'm not talking about anything of this. I'm talking about, you know, you want to learn off a trader. You don't want to learn off a car guru. You want to learn off a trader. It's very, very important. Um, and then once you've taken a step back and you've, you've found out who you want to learn from, then you, then you start from there.

You know, it's actually great advice, especially the, the thing you said at the beginning of, I'm, I'm following the right person. I'm doing the hours and doing everything, but I'm still not seeing it. But a lot of people, everyone has a unique relationship to money. And, uh, what I've always said is the market, don't come to the market if you got money problems because if you're dead broke, the market is not going to solve it. It's likely to amplify it. Uh, if you have gambling tendencies, it will amplify it. So the, these things you got to be aware of and address them. And if you're like, "Oh man, I've only got $300 left in my bank account. I'm going to trade my way to to solve and pay my rent there." That's such an emotional endeavor. It's very unlikely to happen that you're going to amplify it and actually blow that 300 a lot quicker. But if you just go get a job or if you just go and get a high income skill, save up to 5 to 10k. Now you approach the market with a lot clearer head because you're not desperate to pay rent. A lot of these anchors people are aware of. Another thing that I read was people that are born in their financial formative years or go through their financial formative years during a crash, during a recession, during a, you know, these tough times and they saw their family members struggle because of it. Your relationship to money will be very conservative, risk-averse, and, uh, you, you won't invest. Whereas someone that is financial formative years in a booming market, a thriving economy, and you know, the parents take out loans and it paid off and all these things, you'll be a bit more aggressive. So just the years you were born in have an effect on on the way you, you approach money. So, uh, there's layers behind just, I, I back tested and worked hard. Uh, it's all of the things you said.

I, I completely agree. Touching on back testing, I did when I first got into trading, the only thing I, I really knew, um, and the thing I was particularly good at was just doing the same thing over and over again. I can, I can sit somewhere and I can do the same menial task over and over again. I quickly learned that that doesn't, uh, doesn't help you really. Um, you know, hindsight is hindsight. Uh, you know, actually forward testing and not just forward testing, having a bit of skin in the game is important because I don't care. A lot of people, they want to put, um, they want to, you know, start making thousands and thousands and thousands or whatever it is. Um, but just having a pound in the game, money is a motion. So, I don't care if it's 10p or £10,000, that will change how you trade completely different to on on demo. And a lot of people come to me and they say, "I've done this on demo. I've done this on demo." It doesn't like, well done, you've, you've learned how to execute trades, where to put stop loss, this that and the other, but it's not.

Circling back to the point of prop firms, let's say you have 5k to play with. I would say put in 2-3k into prop firms and learn. Like, no, you'll blow all of them, but you will learn so much more in paying for an account. The account means something to you. So, you're actually watching the P&L, you're, you're managing your risk, you're, you're questioning the trades you take. And then when you do blow that account, you walk away with minus $100 or $200, but invaluable lessons. And then when you compare that to someone that's just six months of back testing without emotion, with replay mode to tap through price action, to not feel each tick and each pip and the retracement, how you got to be scared and then hopeful when it's in profit, and you just tap through and replay mode, you're not going to learn enough. And therefore, blowing accounts is actually, if you can afford it, a great way to learn.

Yeah. A saying which I say is, uh, losses are lessons. And so without, um, without losses, you're not going to learn any lessons. And so if you're not actually losing, which is, it's, it's unfortunate that is part of this, uh, uh, part of trading, but it just is. And it's something we can help. Yeah, it is, it is. So if you're not losing, then you're not learning. And you need to lose at some point. Now, the goal is to keep those losses as minimal as possible.

But everyone's different. Whenever people, uh, lose or have a bad day or anything, I just say, okay, as long as you can transition that into a lesson. What didn't you see? What did you see? How can you learn from that? Then you didn't lose. You paid for a lesson. Okay. And it's such a good mentality to have.

There we go. Max, a brilliant episode. Thank you for joining us.

Yeah, it's been amazing. Thank you. Thank you.

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