All I Want For Christmas Are Red Designer Chondros | AITT X-MAs Special

Shout out to US Arc and all US Arc members. If you don't know what US Arc is, don't be ashamed. Just go and click the third link in description below. See what US Arc is all about. Okay? You never know when legislations are going to hit your backyard. So that's why it's very important to consider becoming a US Arc member today. These numbers really do matter and they look at it for consideration when it comes to battling legislation. So, first and foremost, thank you, Phil Goss. Thank you to anybody out there who partners up and volunteers with US Arc organization. Thank you for anyone out there who's a US Arc member. And if you can't become a US Arc member today, please talk about it on your platforms. Let your neighbors know. Let all your pet stores know what US Arc is here for. And it's here to fight for our animal rights. Thank you to every US Arc member and US Arc supporter out there. Cheers.

>> T-minus 30 seconds. [music] T-minus 20 seconds. [music] >> [music] >> 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 [music] Zero. Trap Talk Reptile Network. The coolest reptile network in the world. Episode 719. Happy holidays. Merry Christmas. This is the On the Tree Tuesday Christmas special. I'm your boy MJ. With me is Santa. Yes, Santa's in the [ __ ] building. All right. And I also have another fellow elf that's going to be joining me as well. And I'm your actual host of tonight's episode, MJ the Head elf. [snorts] All right. And uh this is your first time watching. Welcome. You you're watching on a very special episode of All the Tree Tuesday. And before I bring my colleagues and my other friends here in a bit, uh do me a favor. This is your first time watching. If you've been enjoying all year these on the tree Tuesdays, um if you've been listening to on the audio platforms and if you're not already yet, please subscribe. No matter where you listen to any of this, subscribe, like, comment, all that goes a long ways, okay? So, thank you so much to anyone who subscribed. Um, and anyone who just come watches and listens, man, thank you so much. Listen, we're going on believe we're going on year uh seven, no, year six of uh this and and it's a beautiful thing, man. And I want to say thank you so much to all my dedicated condo keepers and admirers who listen to uh these episodes every Tuesday. Um cuz this is a special day of the week for sure, hands down. So why not do an awesome special uh Christmas uh episode for you guys and kind of talk about a lot of the uh the good, the bad, the ugly type of stuff. I don't know. A lot of lot of things to go over this year for sure.

But listen, I want to get to tonight's sponsor. One of them being the Reptile Super Show. biggest, coolest show in the country happening January 10th and 11th at Pomona Fairgrounds here in California in SoCal. I will be there along many of my other colleagues. All right, top level vendors, breeders, keepers will be at this show. Thank you so much Rammy and the entire Reptile Super Show family for throwing such an awesome show. Um, cannot wait to be there with Morph Market and again many other amazing people who will be there in attendance. So, cannot wait to see all you guys and if you are going, please let me know. I'll be there, man. January 10th and 11th, Reptile Super Show. Get all your tickets at reptilesupershow.com and also follow them on Instagram.

Also, tonight's episode is uh brought to you by Texas Condros, Mark Hager. That's right, TXondro on IG. Make sure you go follow because he puts on all the fellow top tier condo keepers out of Texas on his page. Very, very big-hearted guy this individual is. He's helped me out plenty of times and uh really appreciate this man's support. Especially if you're a yellow neonate advocate and you believe in that, well, go hang out with him for sure because he believes in it, too. And he has an awesome awesome production that are yellow neonates. Thank you so much, Mark Hagar over at Texas Condros.

Also, tonight's episode is brought to you by David Brahms over at the Reptile Perch. Got to tell you right now, all my condos in my focus cube habitats are all kicking it and chilling on my David Brahms perch. PVC, no bougie. I mean, no uh no cheapness when it comes to this guy designing his perches. They last forever and thank you so much. Very easy to clean as well, I will say. Uh but yeah, David Brahms the reptile perch. Go to reptile perch.com. See what style size perch is best for your boreal. But yeah, if you have a boreal snake, man, they got to be on a David Brahms perch. So the reptile perch.com, make sure you follow him on Instagram as well. Thank you so much, David Brahms.

And then last but not least, uh shout out to um Brian Susan over at Sundown Reptiles. If you're looking to get into the tree monitors, abort um abonia, uh gargo geckos, cahooas, aka chewies, man, this is your guy right here. Works with some of the best underrated underrated. Did I say that right? Yeah, underworked species that are like really cool. Like this guy has so much cool stuff that not enough people are working with. So go check him out. Sundown Reptiles. Go to his website, sundownretiles.com. Thank you so much, Brian Susan.

And again, man, thank you for all the love and support. If you want exclusive content, come join the Trap Talk Patreon family. Click first link in description below. Get invited to special events such as Trapfest. A lot of details coming right now with Trapfest happening in 2026. This will be the fifth, I believe, sixth annual Trapfest. I don't know, man. But get all information at the Patreon. Uh thank you so much again for all my Patreon members. You guys are my heart. Join the Discord. Okay, choose you. Join the Patreon family. Also connect to the Instagram group chat. It's where you really tap in with some of the best keepers in the game. All right.

So, all right guys, enough is enough. my uh fellow elf homie finally just arrived. All right. And uh again, Santa is in the building. We might have one other person joining in. And when we talk about certain things like hatch rates and stuff, you might feel a little bit of a damper. You might feel like just kind of feel like the Grinch is around. I don't know. You guys be the judge. All right. Enough is enough. DO ME A FAVOR OUT THERE BECAUSE IT IS CHRISTMAS time and your spirit needs to be high and your hydration needs to be on point. And get your mind right while you're AT IT. EPISODE 719, THE CHRISTMAS holiday special on the tree Tuesday. Let's go.

>> Good. >> You ready for do more in the future? Trap Talk podcastes. >> Yes. >> Only only Trap Talk exclusive. >> Exclusive only. So stop calling us [laughter] or not. I'm hot from the hop to the spot. [music] Get the club to pop when I come up the spot. Get the club when I come up [music] the spot. Get the club. When I come up the spot, get the club when I come up. Everybody, [music] we do it. Everybody, [music] we do it. [music] Do it. [music] [music] Do it. [music] Do it spot. [music] Get the club when I come up with the spot. Get the club when I come up. [music] Get the club when I come up. And we're live. Santa, is that you? >> Santa, [laughter] of course. Alex, you're [ __ ] >> Hold on. Time out. We're gonna talk [ __ ] about this elf who's late. I can hear all my voice on your phone or whatever you're using, Alex. This is what happens when you don't come to soundcheck. And I'm a head elf right now. So, I get to drill you. >> Naughty list. >> Very naughty. >> Naughty list. >> I swear this show started later than it does. >> Okay. But I can still hear myself on your phone. Exit out. Come back in. >> What do you mean you can hear yourself? >> Hold on. Wait. Wait. Stay right there. Hold on. >> All right. Bill Marshall. Yep. I don't hear nothing. >> Sound check. >> Check. >> Guess what? Hey, guess what, Alex? Guess what? Problem. You You're the issue. >> Okay, hold on. >> Missing sound check. Naughty list. >> One [snorts] second. >> You are not Marshall. Naughty list. >> One second. >> Only Marshall's the only one. >> Yeah, he left. [laughter] >> HEY, MERRY CHRISTMAS, BOYS. >> MERRY CHRISTMAS. [laughter] >> Merry Christmas, boys. >> Merry Christmas to everybody in the chats. >> Yes. >> What a year it's been. Huh? Are you wearing uh latex gloves there? >> No. Hell no. These aren't latex. >> These are magical um nylon gloves straight from China. >> I think you got those at red redline shipping.com. [laughter] >> Well, I'll tell you what. These gloves and the rest of this shit's going to be off in about five minutes. >> Come on. for Christmas spirit >> because it's hot and it's itchy. I told MJ it was 80 degrees here today. I had to turn the air conditioning back on. What kind of Christmas is that? [laughter] >> It's hot as [ __ ] here, too. It's going to be 76 here tomorrow. >> I'm definitely sweating balls in this robe and in this [ __ ] hat. So, I'm with you. I think we did it with the intro. We I mean, and we got to roast Alex. We don't know where he I think he has to wear the ears the entire time because he's [ __ ] he [ __ ] up and he's already on the naughty list. All right, he's back. Let's see what he's like. Hey, Alex. >> Any better? >> Uh, hey. >> Are you sure? >> I can hear. >> I can. >> Oh, yeah. I can hear. >> Alex, what's going on? You've been on this show. >> Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. >> You hear MJ kind of echoing, too? >> It's not me, dude. >> What about that? Is that Is that good? >> Hey. Hey. Yes. Whatever you did, YOU JUST DID. WOW. ALEX, [screaming] >> it was this thing. >> All right. >> You're back on the nice list. Take that [ __ ] thing out of there. And now you're getting back on the nice list. >> Yeah. Hey, listen. >> I don't know. I feel like I'm still on the naughty list. [laughter] >> Hey, way to adjust, buddy. Contra. Contra breeders adjust. And you know that. >> You did good, right? >> We adapt and we survive. >> All right. I wanted this episode. I wanted this episode uh because, you know, dude, what a year we've had. Um even Marshall. Marshall had the best year he's had in a long time with condro, right, Marshall? You haven't had this many babies in how many years? >> Three or four. Yeah, it's been a couple. Definitely started off really good. Two two really nice clutches and, you know, hatch rate or or survival rate was uh left a little to be desired, but uh still got about, you know, uh seven or eight nine really nice neonates are all starting to change color. So, uh, yeah, I'm I'm satisfied. >> And you've got a clutch that could happen before the end of the year, so 2025 is not over. >> Well, these would be 26 babies, so still. >> That's true. That's true. Yeah. >> Yeah. Because I figured we uh, you know, these will come out in 2026, as much as I would like to count them for this year. Um, yeah, these will be 2026 babies considering. But, you know, listen, you know, you're wearing a Grinch hat, right? And I feel like [laughter] that's that's like that is perfectly you. Um is that choice like like meaning like are we trying to not get to a better hatch rate at some point, Marshall, or are you happy just being the Grinch? Like where where we at with progression here? Because I feel like I feel like we could all help you. I really do. But but does the Grinch want help? That's the thing. Like does he want >> Always always uh interested in help. >> That's good to know. Okay. So let's kind of take let's let's take it from square one. Okay. because you even said that you were possibly going to switch things up this year when it comes to your egg box or No. >> Well, I switched to a new egg box last year and switched back to vermiculite. So, uh I just kind of got it all set up for this clutch that I'm expecting and did a little drier this time. See if that has any, you know, see if that has any uh impact on it. Last time I think I did eight water to vermiculite ratio and I dropped it down to like 0 65 this time. Um, so other than that, I'm gonna do straight fake at 87.5 and let it ride, >> which that's what Bill did, I think, the last two clutches. Or how many clutches did you switch to that, Bill? >> Yeah, the last two clutches. I just I just went back to what worked for me for a decade. And, you know, instead of cooling stuff at the end, I just let it ride. I think I told you on uh last Tuesday, I had one that pipped super early, day 44. Um, but I had a great hatch rate in that clutch. I had a great hatch rate in the clutch before that. So, you know, how many times have I said I think I have this dialed in only to, you know, be like Marshall and try to get the enemy of the enemy of good is better, you know, and I've kind of figured that out and I've just come to the fact that not all of these things are going to come out of the egg no matter what we do. >> Yeah. And honestly, it really wasn't the hatch rate. I mean, I had a pretty decent. I started off with 20 some odd babies. Um, 20, I don't know, [clears throat] >> mid20s and, um, it was the establishment that didn't go well. >> Plus, I was, you know, I was got a lot of other stuff going on. I didn't have I didn't spend enough time probably, you know, when you got, you know, 20some babies and they're whatever, 12 or 15 that don't want to eat. >> Yeah. >> It's like, >> it's easy. It's a pain. It's easy to lose track and just for see how [ __ ] behind the curve you are on them if you're not paying attention. It really is. >> You You needed two Alex. >> Go ahead, Santa. What' you say? >> I I said you needed two Alex's this year. >> No. Yeah. Okay. But I want to get to Marshall's. You know, one thing about Marshall, he's not very hands-on when it comes to like helping them come out. Like it is what it is to you, right, Marshall? like you you don't really jump in and do anything such as like I don't know are you good at noticing when they're entangled in the egg? Like are you good at spotting that or or do you find >> Yeah, I'll check that after the last couple years. You know, last year I had quite a few that were all tangled up. Um >> yeah, >> including including the albino came out all tangled up >> and was able to save it. So, you know, now um and this year I learned a little lesson, too. you know, like there was a couple eggs that I checked that I thought were, you know, that I thought had died. And I think I want to say like a week or maybe longer went by and I just hadn't, you know, dumped the egg box out of the incubator yet. And I had two babies come I had one come out like five or six days later than the rest and I think I had another one come out like eight or nine days later. >> Wow. >> Uh than the rest of them. >> Yeah. You never know. Did you pip those eggs and then they came out a week, eight days later or they self pipped? >> Yep. >> No, no, I pipped them. >> I did pip them after like, you know, 24 to 24 hours, 48 hours, something like that after after the first one. >> What day are they usually hatching on, Marshall? >> Man, it varies, you know, like there's really not been any rhyme or reason. Um, as far as I do, you know, pretty much do the same temperature every time. I've been using the same incubator for 20, you know, 20 20 years or maybe longer. And, uh, some days it's 48, 49 all the way to 53, 54. And really no no uh no rhyme or reason to to what makes them uh come out earlier or later. >> Yeah. Uh this year both clutches were laid I want to say on the same day or like one day apart and uh they all hatched you know in the same in the same general time range um except for those couple of outliers that were you know a week or week or so later. Have you noticed the ones that stay in the egg longer? Like let's say you have some that hatch out on day 52 and some you know one or two that takes like five days to come out. Have you noticed it's kind of harder to establish that one that comes out later? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't think either of the two that hatched out real late survived. >> Yeah. >> It's not a good sign normally. Like I don't like >> it. Yeah. Yeah. >> Normally like I from what I saw this year like I went in there was an issue. They were either knotted up >> um or something or there was just so much of the yolk left. Like I maybe saw a couple where I was like holy [ __ ] you didn't absorb nowhere near much as these guys did. And I think some of them, well, that's when I did that thing that Chuck said that he does with the shot glass. Um, like, uh, for whatever reason, I think, I don't know why I pulled them out. I think they were entangled and then they just had a lot of the yolk still stuck to them and put them in the deli cup, a 3 oz deli cup versus a shot glass and they he it stayed in there for like a week and it reabsorbed. Um, and I can't remember which one >> it did end it did end up absorbing it because what I've found is when you put them, you know, when you put them in a deli cup or whatever that once the yolk gets twisted up, it's not it's no more of it's going to go in. >> Well, you know, once the umbilicus gets twisted, >> I mean, if it's still attached, dude, and the B and it's like almost because I've checked this out. I've even seen them still act like they're in the egg. Like, I've helped them come out the egg and I put them with the rest and they're like on the ground almost like they're still in an egg. So, I think if they're if they still want that yolk sack, they're going to stay in that that deli cup. Literally, that snake stayed in that deli cup for like five days. Like it and it could have could have roamed and done its thing, but it didn't want to leave. It stayed perfectly coiled right there with the egg sack until one day I walked in and it was perched and I was like, "Holy shit." You know, >> absorb absorb it. >> Yeah, it didn't absorb a lot, but absorbed enough where it got strength to detach from it and leave. You know, I didn't go in there. I didn't go in there and pull it off or anything, you know. I just kind of let it do it on its own. And and I think mimicking the egg by putting it in something small and contained helps them want to just stay there, you know. >> Um shout out to Chuck. I mean, I got that that whole shot glass idea from Chuck and it worked with a with a 1 oz deli cup. I think it's a 1 oz or something real small. Um but yeah, it was a trip to see. But again, I want to get to this topic. Um you know, because me and Alex talk a lot about like when do we step in? When is it time to step in and save the snake? Because I saved a few, man. I really did. I saved at least seven by jumping in. And again, I can't remember out of the seven how many made it. I think majority of them did. But, um, let's go let's go to you, Alex, because I think you had a lot of that experience as well where you saw something going on within the the neonate and the egg. You saw others emerge. So, when do you feel like at this point you comfortable like stepping in and doing something or like, let's hear from you? Well, you know, I don't I don't really even know what to do because like, you know, if you cut the egg open and you see a snake and it's not moving, then I'm just assuming that it's dead. And I don't know if that's different for you guys because you guys are talking about having snakes that haven't absorbed the yolk fully yet. Is it still moving around? >> I poke I poke around in there. I have a I have one of those long Q-tips with the way you know and I just kind of just go like this and I'll usually see like some sort of it's very rare you see zero movement from a snake that's alive. I've I've been I've been fooled a couple times where I'm like yeah you're dead and then next thing you know the head comes out and I'm like holy [ __ ] you're not dead. So I try to get I try to get an idea to see if it's alive but I don't you know it is >> that's kind of that's kind of what I'm thinking. I'm like dude have I thrown out like a live snakes before? like, >> you know, I know I I know me and Bill, you know, both like we'll cut open an egg and, >> you know, like you can tell that there's still like yolk left in there, but the snake isn't really moving, so we're like, "Oh, it it died." You know, so we're not I I mean, maybe it could have been alive. I'm not really sure. Uh but you like I'll bring those home cuz I incubate at Bill's house. I'll bring those home to my house and I'll kind of set them up like in one of the the uh baby tubs anyway and I'll just leave the eggs for a few days and just see what happens. And there's been a couple times where babies have crawled out and perched, but it's not too often. Like usually from for me in my experience, they all kind of crawl out pretty close together within a few days of each other and after that anything that hasn't crawled out is pretty much gone at that point. Um, but you know, I I don't know. Like, you know, even even after that, I'll like cut open the eggs and like take out the babies and actually see what's happening. And almost every single time, you know, there's been a massive yolk or the baby was just underdeveloped or whatever, whatever it is. But it's hard to save a a dying baby condro, you know, like there's there's almost nothing you can do to save that thing. >> Yeah. The window is very small, even if it is knotted. Because I noticed the ones that I helped out, they died like the next day because it was too late. Like they they it was they were knotted for too long. I saw one literally come back to life almost in my [ __ ] hands. Like I was like, "Holy shit." Like I unnoded it at the perfect time, but then even then it was just like two weeks. Your whole window of helping is very very small. And then also like again like doing too much that we don't know we don't need to do is a is a risk too. Uh Bill, what about you Bill? Like >> how many times Go ahead. I I I had one in this last clutch where uh it was one of the ones I think I only pipped two eggs, but I pipped this egg and then, you know, kind of after, you know, day 44 or day, you know, day uh like 53, everything had come out and I was just kind of clearing out the egg box and there was this snake in there that I assumed was dead. So, I just popped it out of the egg >> and it had a ton of fluid >> in it. I mean, just a bunch of fluid. But I popped the snake out of the egg and it came out almost gasping for air. Like, it just came out and just like I kind of revived it. I kind of just rubbed it a little bit and ton of yolk all over it. But it came out and it perched and it it looks good. So, I'm kind of like Alex. The only thing that I'm really going to intervene is if they have a twisted yolk sack, I'll tie it off. Um I have not done, you know, the shot glass method, but I've had good success just tying off the yolk sack and and letting them go from there. >> Yeah. And >> that snake had a ton of a ton of yolk or a ton of egg fluid. >> Egg fluid. Yeah. Not a big yolk sack, just a ton of fluid. And it looked like it was literally almost just drowning in there. >> What do you think? What do you think that is uh causing, Bill? Like, why would there be more fluid and when the yolk sack is major majority absorbed? >> Yeah, I I really have no idea. Uh like I said, I thought it was dead. I was just going to pull it out of the egg and throw it in the trash can, but I popped it out of the egg and it it was moving. Um not not vigorously, but it was moving. But once I kind of put it through my fingers a little bit and almost just kind of woke it up, resuscitated a little bit, then all of a sudden it was just all over the place. >> Yeah. >> It's odd because a lot of times I think that's having more egg fluid is better because the ones that are too dry, those are the ones that can't can't push their way out. >> I agree. I I would the the ones that get too dry are the ones that are the death of me. Those are the ones that tend to have, you know, I've seen it this year. They're the ones that have big unabsorbed um egg egg yolk, you know, it's just it's just dry and that there's a lot of there's a lot of y, you know, just unabsorbed yolk and that's I'd much rather like you said, Marshall, have it come out too wet than too dry. >> When you pip them, you can always just like squeeze it out, you know, squeeze a little bit out. >> Yeah. >> Squeeze a little bit of the egg fluid out. Plus, once you pip them, you relieve the pressure and just kind of oozes out, you know. >> Yep. Yep. That's the way this one was. >> Yeah. I mean, technically, if you cut the egg, you don't you want as less ooze as possible. Um, but you also don't want to be too dry as well. Like, there's like a I mean, there's a type of fluid you see in that egg that is like the perfect fluid you're looking for. The ones with a little bit of bubbles and like you could tell it's majority. You can tell the snake's ready to come out. Um, you can just tell the the way it looks inside the egg. Uh, but then again, like there definitely those signs where you know like [ __ ] dude, there's something up with this one. And normally like what throws me off is eggs that go the distance and then all of a sudden they they right when it's that day for them to pit, one of them just goes to [ __ ] and you're like, "What the [ __ ] happened to you?" And you just look and you see this [ __ ] up snake. You're like, "How the hell did you make it this long?" And like, "Why did you just choose to go bad now?" You know what I mean? >> Or the ones that crawl halfway out and die. Those are the ones that just I shake my head like, "Dude, you almost made it. You're you're halfway there. You know why? Why did you stop?" >> I think that comes from not dropping the temps. I could be wrong, but I feel like if that I feel like that is some sort of heat exhaustion. I don't We don't know, right? But I'm just saying that's the last time I ever saw anything like that, Bill, is when I wasn't dropping my temps the way I do now. Um >> Well, the last time I saw it was when I was dropping temps. >> Yeah. So, there you go. [ __ ] you. I didn't I didn't have the last two clutches that I hatched. I didn't have any that did that. I mean, I I had a couple that didn't go the distance. Um but I didn't have any come out halfway and die. >> Those are the ones that kill me. >> Yeah. Um dude, shout out to Brian Fischer. Uh he shared something in the chats. I I don't want to share the pick because he didn't give me permission, but we talked about it before. something with Neos and there's like fluid that flushes in through the eyes or something and it makes the eyes all [ __ ] bulgy and and it could go away with the shed and he showed me a picture of that. It went away. But >> what what what is that? That's like a >> I've seen it. >> Like a clogged tear duct or something. >> Yeah. Yeah. I've seen it, too. And um I can't remember the guy's name, but I I shared a picture of him. He's a he's an exotic reptile vet uh on on the West Coast. Bought a condo for me a couple of years ago. I shared the picture with him and he hadn't seen anything like it. Um and so he shared it with a couple of his colleagues and um there were a couple of theories but the bottom line was is that like when Marshall said once it shed first one of the eyes completely to normal couple days later the other eye completely to normal. So >> check that out. >> Boom. boy. >> Did that one survive? >> Wow. >> Yeah. I'm gonna show you what it looks like right now. Uh but that that was a picture Brian shared in the chats. >> Yeah. I've had one that looks just like that. >> Yeah. And so again, I I don't know. If I saw something like this, not only would I be freaked out, but I would probably throw in the freezer. I'd probably be like, "Hey, you're fucked." But again, uh not the case because this is what it looks like now. And I and I still still think it's not disfor uh sorry it's not deformed but the eyes do look a little like bulgier than normal to me. And I thinking maybe that's a development thing with the eyeballs because look how like look at the eye sockets. Look how they like come out. You know what I mean? Like they're like you could visibly see them. And that's not like that's not normal. >> Yeah. Joerger always had eyes that look like that. >> Yeah. Okay. So maybe maybe it's just a development thing with some of them. I mean Brian I know you're in the chats. Can you tell me if this was a pure this this is a pure Bak remind me again Brian but again dude that's crazy how it could go from what we just saw [ __ ] Alien 3 to like this you know >> Marshall you said you had some experience with that or you just seen it before? >> Yeah. No, I've had it happen. I mean not as bad as this one and not both eyes but I have had it single eye you know we'll get a bunch of fluid built up behind it and then they shed and they're they're fine. See, the animal that I had happen to it was a yellow neo. So, I just chocked it up to being a yellow neo. [laughter] >> Oh, stand. That was a good one, >> though. What What happened to that snake? I remember you hatching it out, but I can't remember what happened to it. Did it survive? >> Yeah, it survived. Ended up being completely normal. >> It didn't. Okay. [snorts] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, Sock had a neonate, a yellow neonate. Go figure. that had that same eye thing, but it it never went away. And he uh every now and again he has to get a [ __ ] syringe and suck it's just fluid. It's just literally water in the eye. And dude, it gets like [ __ ] Tyson versus Holyfield big. Like something sucked it in the eye. Um but then all he does is suck the water out and it deflates. >> Um >> yeah, I I I've had that happen, Alex. You remember? Uh I had a couple of Borneo a few years ago >> that were born and we did the same thing. We'd suck that fluid out, but it always came back. And that one never It never recovered. >> Yeah. Well, but if you remember, the Borneo take like four months to have their first shed. >> First shed. >> And we like we would just keep sucking it out. And I think I think I can't remember like what happened to them, but you like I I can't remember what you did with them, but like I like we never they never stayed in the facility long enough for us to see like what happened because they they took too long to have their first shed. >> Yeah, I I remember that that one specific example that it did shed and it just we kept draining the fluid until we finally just said screw this and it it went in the freezer. >> Yeah. >> So, how how are you draining it? You were you were a syringe >> tiny needles >> like like going through the eye cap. >> Yeah. Well, just Yeah. Right. Right. Right through the eyeball. Yeah. I mean, just off >> I don't know. Where does that Where do those ducks drain? Do they just drain into like top of the mouth or >> I think it has to >> into the mouth or into the into the the nasal or something like that. >> I I don't know exactly where where it drains. Um but it is some kind of >> development >> clogging. Yeah. some kind of clogging of that of that duct. >> Yeah. [snorts] Um I don't know, man. You know, again, after having a year like I did this year, I don't have time for that [ __ ] dude. If I see some weird alien [ __ ] like that. >> Yeah. Well, that that's what we did with the yellow nail. We just let it ride. Just let's just see what happens. >> Oh, yeah. I don't care if Yeah. I was talking if it's red. Even if it's red, if it has Cyclops eye like that, I'm good. You're you're gonna go to Adrian. West Coast Adrian. [laughter] He's gonna take it. Go ahead. But again, I don't know. I I feel like um I don't know, man. Listen, at the end of the day, these aren't ball pythons, but you know, we all know ball pythons are a walk in the park when it comes to breeding. There has to be a point in time where we look at where we're doing wrong and get to a more higher percentage of getting these to hatch out successfully. You would agree, Alex? >> Yeah, I would agree with that, >> Bill. >> Well, I I I think we can continue to try. Um, but I'm I'm kind of out of I'm kind of out of um ideas to be honest. >> I don't know if there really will ever be a day where all of us can get 100% hatch rate all the time. I I don't I don't think that day would ever come to be honest with you. I think we can get it good. I think we can get it close, but I don't think we're ever going to have it to the point of ball pythons to where if you get a a healthy egg, you're probably going to hatch out that snake. >> Okay. Well, remember we we you know, not we, but the community in a in a sense applauds h like 50% hatch rates, which is good. That's not bad. But then again, like to regularly hatch out 50%, you shouldn't always shoot for 50%. I feel like >> Yeah. No, I I I don't think 50% is is anywhere near the goal that that we should be shooting for. >> Um >> No, 50% is not acceptable. >> Yeah. I mean, and again, dude, even with ball pythons, you not everything's hatched out perfectly. Like, you get you get it's just not as common as what we deal with with condro, that's all. >> Yeah, they I mean, they they don't get 100% hatch rate. I never got 100% hatch rate ball pythons, but it it's across the board higher for sure. >> Yeah. And again, it's just more of like we expect you to hit a certain percentage, Marshall. [laughter] >> Plus, there's so many variables, too. like, you know, you don't you there's they're too wet, too dry, tangled up in the yolk. Um, you know, like it just seems like more things go wrong. >> Well, and also every clutch is different, too, you know, like like it it seem it seems like you can do the same thing, but this clutch did better than this clutch for whatever reason. [clears throat] >> Yeah. No, 100%. >> And again, I not everything's meant to be here either. Like you just I don't know. Um I don't know. Coming from a place where I had girls lay clutches where they all prolapsed and then this year I didn't have that kind of experience even from the same females. It's like I don't know what what do you chalk up um a bad clutch to? Do do you chalk it up to your husbandry that year? Do you chalk it up to the the odds like you just had shitty luck like a like how you could get with ball pythons? You know what I mean? But then again, what are we talking about here? Are we talking about snakes that all died in the egg? Are we talking about stuff that should have hatched out but they didn't because you're [ __ ] ecubator? I don't know. like, >> you know, we we we we've talked we've tal talked about this a little bit before and I know you guys um maybe you've watched the episode that um Merly Python Radio guys had on with Dale Dinardo who's the guy in Arizona who's a PhD. All he does is incubate eggs. I mean, he he and his and his doctorate students, they they hatch python eggs. And you know, he brought up the point that so much happens in that egg before it's laid. You know, we think, oh, you know, everything every time you candle and you see veins and embryo, you know, everything's good. But his point was so much happens in that incubation process. You know, they're incubating while they're still essentially inside the mom. So, you know, maternal factors can contribute to neos that don't hatch properly or hatch with problems. And then okay >> what's interesting about that is that you know some some females will hold the eggs for we were talking about earlier like the one you said 60 days post ovulation. >> Yeah. >> If all this stuff's happening inside the mother. You would think that a 60-day late lay egg that was laid at 60 would hatch sooner than 49 days or 52 days or you know whatever. >> Yeah. Yeah. You're right. >> So I don't know. But these these did not these hatch. >> But something happens to the egg once they come out though. That's what I'm saying. Like the time doesn't start inside the snake. I think the time starts when the snake drops them out of her and then she's about to [ __ ] push them out because that's what she she does. She drops them down for them to get pushed out. And I feel like once that happens and and these eggs are cut from her supply, then it's like, okay, that 50 52 day 55day timer starts. I don't think it starts. But they're not they're not they're not on her her supply anymore, right? Like once it's an egg, it's se it's it's separate. >> Yeah. But then Yeah. But so Okay. >> Yeah. But she's she she is still working her magic once that egg becomes shelled and they're >> you know and they are they are eggs and they're no longer >> Yeah. >> You know they're no longer um you know just big follicles. >> Yeah. You know, but once things shell, >> she keeps them inside her for quite some time after that process. >> Yeah. >> And so, you know, to me, that's when like game on. >> And okay, remember, you guys seen an egg fresh out of a snake, right? You see how it looks? It's not even really calcified. It's like a balloon. It's super like jelly and like >> almost It's almost like a balloon. So, it's like I'm telling you, until that egg becomes an egg, then it's like the time is ticking, I feel like. And I think that's why Bill had his uh that clutch that laid 60 days after ovulation [ __ ] come out on a normal time at day 52 or day 50 or what day Bill like a normal time, right? >> Yeah, it was a normal normal time that they came you know 50 days or whatever. It wasn't a shortened incubation period. >> Yeah. >> Um so who who the hell knows what's going on uh you know inside the mom. You don't really know what's going on once they're outside other than we can just manipulate temperature and humidity in that egg box. That's all we can control. >> Hey, Marshall, you would admit this. We rather have a clutch of eggs to look at than [ __ ] an emerald that's gravid and we don't know what the [ __ ] happening. [laughter] Like, right. I mean, would you rather would you >> What would you rather wait on? An emerald full of babies inside of her or eggs to pip? >> Tough call, man. I I would say eggs because I've had you know >> Yeah. I've had uh you know I've had way more condro than emeralds, but my my percentage of emeralds that have had problems is higher. >> Yeah. >> Even though there's there's been fewer of them. Um I would say, you know, I don't know that that the the percentage of you having a problem is higher, I think. >> Yeah, for sure. What kind of problems are you having? >> Still [ __ ] >> complications with labor. >> Yeah. >> Um, you know, it takes so much out of them. Who knows if it's like they don't have the strength to push them out or they, you know, I don't know. Um, but it's happened to me multiple times. >> Yeah. And not just Marshall. a lot of people >> and the fact that you know so many people there's like so many of us now that are hatching uh condras semicconsistently um and everybody seems to have you know you have good clutches you have bad clutches everyone's doing things you know not the same way but the fact that it's you know there's nobody out there who's consistently year after year just killing it you know um every time like like like ball pythons since we were talking about that earlier it's just um >> Well, I don't know. >> Who knows? Who knows why? >> Bill, what year are you on? >> Yeah, I was going to say I think Bill kills it every year. >> I'm on a streak right now. >> Well, I think I think Marshall's Marshall's talking about hatch rate. I mean, >> just overall survival. Well, I mean, e either way. Yeah, like just on that board of just [ __ ] no issues all across the board. It's >> really unlikely. There's >> I mean, you're just you're you're never going to have no issues. That's just not it's not a reality in these. >> Yeah, you're right. And >> it's the it's the it's the good and the bad. It's the silver lining. I mean, you know, part of me wants to make this where it's still, you know, we don't know everything and we haven't perfect perfected everything. It makes it more exciting when everything goes right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, again, you know, one of the things we saw this year is like how many people are excited to

Get into condos. And the thing is, like, we, we, I, you know, I'll meme-joke about, like, "Dude, you're going to see what this is all about." But that happens with someone who's experienced as well. Like, the whole, like, thinking it's only new people who go through hell. No, dude, us experienced people still go through hell. It doesn't stop.

Um, it's just something you just better be ready for if that's that bridge you want to cross once you get there. But I, I feel like you're going to get there. Just enjoy it. Like, just have fun not having to worry about a snake that's going egg-bound or something crazy that will more likely ruin your day, week, or year. I mean, I think I've had that, that emerald that Miss Willie line that died with 13 live babies in her or whatever. That messed me up for like months. I think I went rogue for a little bit. Like, I just, like, that was the last snake to make me cry, which, you know, never again. That's it, dude. That girl, that girl took my heart with her. It's gone. I just don't, I don't cry over snakes no more. You know what I mean?

Finally, I think with experience, you know, and numbers, it, it gets easier to look past the bad stuff because, like, look what we still have, right? Like, it's not like it's over. It just sucks. Especially when it's your favorite one, which we all talk about what Bill went through, losing sickness. Marshall's lost hella legendary snakes before that he's raised up. Um, emeralds. Like, dude, it just, it almost reminds you, this hobby will always remind you, like, yes, you have all this stuff, but it could be gone just like that.

You know? Never know, man. I know this is kind of easier said than done, but like, if you kind of come into this with the mindset that [ __ ] just happens, then it makes it a little bit easier, you know? Like, if you just know that there's stuff that's just going to happen in this, then it makes it easier to accept situations, I guess. But it's still hard whenever you lose a really nice snake. Or a really nice clutch. Or a nice clutch. Yeah. Or anything you're looking forward to.

Gary says, "Take one day to be pissed off. Get emotional. Do what you got to do. But then take that one day. You wake up the next day, you got to forget about it. It's over." You know what I mean? And I try to live by that. Amen. Cheers, brother. You know what I mean? So, yeah. You just, you can't let it continue on to be a cloud over your head because you're walking into a room with animals still. It's not over, you know?

Most of us that are producing condos are still able to go into our room and go, "Yeah, yeah, that sucked." But look what I have, you know? Just be thankful for what you have. But can you guys also admit sometimes when you're just collecting condos and you start spending some crazy money, like you do take things like a loss a little bit more too personal than you should, right? Because it's kind of like, how do you know? But like, even though you hear all these stories, once it happens to you, it sucks. It's a shitty feeling, especially when it was one of those things where it's like, "Oh my god, like I didn't know my thermostat was messed up or something." You know, something that was an error on your part, which I don't know how many times I messed up like that. You know, didn't lose any crazy good animals over it, but could have.

I think you're right, MJ. I mean, I think it certainly puts an extra sting in it when you've laid out significant amount of money for, say, a particular animal and then it dies. That sting is harder. That sting is harder. Well, it's also, it's also harder, too, when you're just investing the money and you haven't started making money yet. Yes. Like, you know, my snake business has not cost me money in a long time. It's always made money, even if there's been bad things that have happened. But when you're just starting out, you don't have clutches and it's like you just paid whatever, however many thousands of dollars for this snake and it dies, it's like, oh [ __ ]. That's harder to take than if you know. Yeah. Than if the, than if your hobby is paying for itself. Yeah. Definitely true. If you get to the point where this is like monopoly money, then you're, you know, it's a lot easier to swallow that L and just keep it moving. But when you just, when you just legit put in, you know, put some of your mortgage for that month into that snake, dude. Yeah, not ideal. I would. That's why you don't do that. Yeah. I would. I wouldn't go back to the bank. Chill out. Don't go to the bank. Don't go to the credit card. Oh my god. I mean, yeah, it's just crazy to me that people do that, but they do. They [ __ ] they do, and it's just nuts to me. But like, who are we to stop these people? I don't know. Like, again, I, and I don't want to single anybody out because it was more than one person who inquired about a snake, put money down, and I told them, you know, "I still got a couple months, you know, before I could ship it." And they're like, "Cool. I'm on five other payment plans anyway, so I need time." I'm like, "Oh my god." Like, what, what's like, where is it in the book saying you need to get as much hot [ __ ] as you can in 2025? And that, I don't, I don't know where the rush came from. Like, was it us? Like, did we put that pressure on the people? I just don't know where this whole, like, "We need to buy as many condos as we can" energy came from.

Alex, you hear anything? Yeah. I mean, like, I get it, but I think it's like, with anything, you know, they're excited. Like, if you're into cars or whatever, like, you, and you have the money for it, you're like, "Oh, I want this one. I want this one." You know, it's it's exciting, right? But in my opinion, it's more exciting to stand back and look at your collection three, four years from now and be like, "Damn, I really like every single snake that I have in this room." Instead of looking back at it and being like, "Damn, I wish I didn't buy that one. I wish I didn't buy that one. I wish I didn't buy that one." Cuz I mean, I did it, you know? I came into this pretty hot in 2021, 2022, and I look back a year or two later and I was like, "Dude, I'm not going to breed half of these snakes in this room." Like, I don't even know why I bought them.

So, then again, like, you got a different situation on your plate here, buddy. You, uh, you grew fast because you knew what you had as far as to learn what to learn from. And you, uh, but you also still took risk, bro. Like, you, and which I respect you for because I did the exact same thing with imports. I took gambles because I felt like, dude, I mean, here's the thing with Texas. You could find a really beautiful high yellow looking boa for [ __ ] $300. It's nuts. They pop up out of nowhere and it's from somebody who just bought it as a pet at a shop and just doesn't want anymore. That type of thing happens a lot. But then again, we all know, Alex, you just don't need to do that. Especially, especially where you're at. Especially where you're at now in your collection. You know what I mean?

Well, I mean, well, no matter where I'm at, if I see a high yellow boa pop up for $300, I'm buying that thing. He's a Patrick. He's Patrick Jr. Yeah, I'm all over that. So, but it has to be worth it at this point, right? Like, I mean, I'm not just going to buy a boa just because it came up for sale even if it is cheap. Like, it's got to, it's got to be worth it for me at this point. I've just got way too much to risk, you know, bringing a new animal into my collection. But you are right, like, you know, years down the line, once you start producing and if you've put enough money into the right places, that money will come back to you and also more. So, it definitely does pay off if you put enough effort into it. Yeah. Don't buy any boas off Craigslist, Alex. Just chill out for a little bit, buddy. You know what I mean? Yeah, we'll see. Not a, it's not an elf thing to do. You know what I'm saying? We'll see. I like the snakes. Dude, literally, I've had, I got clutches from three of them this year, so I can't talk [ __ ]. I'm just saying, like, Texas has it going on like that. But, um, let's get to your production, Alex. Listen, you're here for a reason, buddy. What a year. Um, late bloomer, I would say. Um, I felt like springtime, you were just kind of like, not too thrilled with what you had go down in the spring for you, but then you told me during the summer what you had in mind pairing-wise, and I'm like, "Yeah, sure, buddy." I was kind of skeptical because of the time of year, it's off-season where you're doing all this, but holy [ __ ], man. Let's get to it. Um, let's talk about what you ended up producing this year. Um, and and let's kind of get into like what you experienced. Like, let's kind of break down what you saw in the springtime and then why you decided to pair what you did during, I think, late summer. Let's get to that.

So, you know, I, I never believed that these things had seasons. I always believed that you can breed boas whenever you wanted to. And so, I said, whenever I'm ready to go, you know, my big year, which is this year, 2025, I'm going to pair in the summer. And so I paired all of my snakes up in, I think, April or May of this year. And I had five pairings, and every single one of those pairings went, and I'm still waiting on two of them. In fact, like, the last two I pulled months ago because I didn't really want the last two clutches because I got the first three and I was like, "Okay, I'm good for the year. I don't, I don't need anymore." Pulled the males. Well, two, three months later, those females ovulated, and I got a female in the egg box right now, and I got one in pre-lay shed right now, and she's going to lay after that. So, which, you know, I'm not upset about it at all. You know, I'm happy. You know, five out of five is pretty good. It's hard to get that. But, um, you know, it's just the, the quality of the clutches are really good, too. You know, as people know by now, I got a Gasova clutch. I got two Top Cheddar clutches. You know, just everything, everything's just, you know, gone really well. Even, even if I didn't have 100% hatch rate with it, it's, I'm just super happy with all the results. Everything that I'm sitting on right now.

Dude, I'm jealous because, yeah, dude, production numbers. I had that. But the quality, the [ __ ] that you produced, dude, with the snakes. Gasova, did I spill the beans? Is that, did I [ __ ] up or did you already come out? Did you already tell people you had a Gasova clutch or did I just ruin it? No, no, no. I announced it. Like, I still haven't, like, I still haven't put it on my stories yet. I've just been so busy this week with the holiday. I haven't had a chance to really put a good, like, reel together for it, but I announced it on my stories and S came out with it on his video when he did the room tour. So, it's out there. It's out there now. Spoiler alert. I'm getting a baby. Woo. Let's keep going. We're going to keep. Let's go. Let's keep them going, baby. Alex had a great hatch rate and all the babies took their first meal, right? Yeah, dude. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, all, every single Gasova baby ate as if they were established and actually they're about to have their third meal. I'm going to do an Instagram live tomorrow and go through and feed all the babies. So, that'll be their third meal and they've, they've literally taken off and I got 10 babies out of that. She laid, she laid 18 eggs, but one of them was like, basically looked like a slug. Like, there was no veins in it or anything. So, but that one went bad, but so technically 17. So, we'll say 17 eggs. 10 of them hatched out and are perched and are good to go and are eating and all that stuff. So, super happy with that. And also, uh, I figured out the Top Cheddar was a red dom. So, that's huge. Yeah. So, happy for sure. Yeah. Which, you know, how many babies for the year? Uh, well, I'm sitting on 44 right now, but I still have those two clutches to come. So, we'll see. We'll see after that. But, but that, that's all 2026 stuff, right? What do you mean? Oh, yeah. I get tech. Yeah, I technically they would be. Yeah, they, they would hatch next year, but I mean, still. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Listen, I'm happy for you, dude. Um, yeah. Thank you. But listen, let's talk about Top Cheddar real quick because he sired two clutches for you this year, right? Yeah. And what were those clutches like establishing? Can we get to that? I'm just curious if, if they both Top Cheddar clutches were just easy. Were they straightforward or, you know? Yeah. Um, so one of them was a boa female and one of them was a Sarong female. And the boa female, it was, it was pretty easy. Like, I think she had 11 that hatched out and perched. And I, I only had to do a sus feed two of those a handful of times and then they took off. So they're all eating right now. As far as the Sarong clutch, that clutch is still like being established. There are a couple runners in that one. Um, I'm, they, they for some reason, they've shed like really far apart. Like, some of them shed like a week apart from each other. So I'm still waiting to see, like, the final results on who's a runner, who's a good eater, you know, who needs a work or whatever from that.

Before we go too much farther, I think Alex, you should come clean and let everybody know that you swindled Top Cheddar out of me. Whoa. Let's get to it. I didn't swindle. It was a, it was a fair trade. Swindled me. Elf sticky finger. All right. Twitter was one of my holdbacks. Well, he was, he was a holdback. Yeah. And I, I've been, there's a holdback until I got him. And I heard it was Jose who caught you. Let's go. Continue. No, it was not Jose. No, I mean, like, you know, Top Cheddar was just chilling there as they do and and I was like, well, like, you know, I was like, well, what's, you know, like, what's happening with that one? And you know, because I asked you, I said, you know, like, what do you, what's your plans with that one? And you were like, "Oh, well, you know, because I mean, you, Top Cheddar is amazing, but you've got, you know, you know, some snakes that are a little bit above that." And you were like, "Uh, he'll probably, you know, be backup." And I was like, "Well, that would be a main breeder at my house." So, as soon as you said that, I was like, "Yeah, that one's, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get that one." Well, you threw him a bone. You told him it was going to go back up for sale, Bill. No. That animal would have never gone up for sale. No. I mean, Top Cheddar is a really nice animal for sure. I mean, he's, he's a great animal and he, dude, he produced some crazy looking babies, dude. Yeah, he did. Some really, really nice dark looking babies. What I love about Top Cheddar. What's the lineage on that one? He's a Jagger, Jagger Sinosis baby. Yeah, what I was going to say about, what I say, I'm going to pull a Top Cheddar picture up. But what I love about Top Cheddar is he could, like, if you don't know the whole yellow-red neonate thing, you could easily think Top Cheddar is a yellow neonate if you don't know what the [ __ ] you're looking at. Yeah. He's not. He's a red dominant. Um, which is great. Um, where the [ __ ] is, where is Top Cheddar? He's on your page, right? Yeah. Yeah, he should be there somewhere. Tell me where he's at so I can pull him up. But that's that's why, man. Like, you got to. Where's he at? I could have sworn I was. Oh, wait. Go up. Staring right here. No, no, no. That's not Top Cheddar. Yeah. That was our joint pairing right there, though. Yeah. I don't know. Go down. I know. I posted a reel of him at some point. Oh, there he is on on the right. Next to 2.0. Next to 2.0. Oh, right here. That's him. Yeah, that's Top Cheddar. Oh my god. Yeah. See, that's [ __ ] nuts. This is what. Oh, this is two years ago. Or about. Yeah, but he still looks pretty. He looks really similar to that. Still hot. Has a lot of yellow. Yeah. Yeah, he's really yellow. Still looks very, very similar to that. I would definitely just go to Morph Markets YouTube channel and you could see a good picture of Top Cheddar on Alex's vlog that I put out. Um, but yeah, dude. So, does that change a lot for you as far as his game plans for the future with breeding now that he's a red dominant? I'm sure he's probably going to be a, probably a stud for you, like a top, probably one of your top dogs, you would say, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. You know, I'm really curious to see how his babies actually turn out because he made some cool neonates, but I want to see how they turn out. You know, that's that's really going to dictate what I pair him to in the future. Um, you know, because I, especially since now I have two different clutches from a Sarong and a Boa. The Boa being a red neo and the Sarong being a yellow. So, we're going to see. I mean, like, what if the Sarong babies come out way cooler than the Boa ones? Like, you know, that that would kind of have a, have a reaction on who I would pair him to in the future. So, we'll, we'll see. You know, I'm sitting on a lot of babies, so next year might be kind of, kind of a light breeding year for me.

It's funny how the boa mom, all babies are great eaters. Yeah, I, you know, I, uh, I don't disagree with that. You know, I've, I've gotten three clutches from that Sarong and, you know, I've, I've always had a couple picky eaters from from Sarongs or from yellows or whatever you want to say, but all the reds, I have almost no issues from. So, okay. Again, Bill, anecdotal, I'm assuming, but not really. You'd say if you got a snake that's a bad starter or a bad eater growing up to breeding, you think more than likely the babies are all going to be bad or a good percentage of them that has blood coming from this snake will be bad eaters? I mean, I think we talked about this before. You know, I haven't tracked it closely enough to determine that. Part of it is because I, I just don't keep a lot of them around. Um, so I, I don't really have any any comments or thoughts about that. Um, you know, if they're good, if the, if the parents are good eaters and the babies are going to be good eaters and vice versa. I know some people, you know, especially back in the day, they would pick their holdbacks based on, I was just, which ones, you know, were the best feeders, not how they look phenotypically, but, you know, the ones that just took that first meal right away, you know, those are the ones that people would hold back. Um, I've never really kept that, kept track of that. Um, so I, I don't really know.

Alex, what's going on here, bro? This is neat, but what's, is it? This almost looks like a situation like it came out of the egg too soon or something. What's going on? Uh, yeah, that one was like a little bit, like, it was, it was a little smaller. That was from my Guinness clutch at the beginning of this year. It just looked a little dehydrated, so I just put it in a deli cup and gave it some water and it started drinking and I thought it'd be a cool video. That's cool. Yeah, that thing's chugging like [ __ ]. And I just got done partying at Bill Seagull's party. That looks like the guy that got gurnie the next morning. Yeah, we should have to call the double oak paramedics on that snake. Right? Hey, did it make it though? Like, did the snake? Yeah. Yeah, it made it. That's good. That's [ __ ] crazy. But you, again, man, like that's that's um good on you to like step in and do something because clearly it was thirsty. Um, I didn't, you know, normally I just spray those. That's interesting that you put it in a deli cup with a little bit of water or like, where'd you get that idea from? I, you know, it just looked dehydrated. So I was just, I just pulled it off the perch and put it in a deli cup. Like, I think I was like cleaning tubs or something like that and, you know, while I put it in there while I was cleaning and just noticed that it was drinking. So, you know, these things are just, are not smart animals, dude. Like, you can put a, you can put two water dishes in there and they still won't drink from it. Sometimes you literally have to take them off the perch, put them in water for them to drink. Like, they just, they, you know, as babies, they just can't figure it out for some reason. Yeah. As adults, they can't figure it out. I've got some that, you know, they all have water bowls. They've drunken out of the water bowls a million times, but like, if I, I go in and whatever, spray the cages and I see them licking water off of the paper. Off themselves. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder what it is that keeps them from wanting to drink, you know? I, I think with gravid females, I, maybe they're just too, too concerned about laying their eggs. And I could see that being a thing, but like you said, like, I've noticed [ __ ] boas that, you know, they won't drink until you spray them sometimes. Like, literally the water is right there. But then now they're chugging when you spray them. Um, that's why like, you know, again, I'm not saying I spray every day, but I, I'll spray as needed. The neonates for sure, um, when I tried to not spray them as much when they were fresh out of the egg, didn't work out. They [ __ ] wrinkled up so quick and I was like, "Oh, not doing that," and [ __ ] went back to spraying them, all went away. Yeah. Um, so that's why it's like, dude, like these things don't even know to drink themselves, you know? Um, but I don't. Yeah. And I also, I don't know, like, what it is, like, they also seem to, some of them don't know how to shed either. Like, I have a couple. Help them. Yes, dude. Yeah, they'll, like, they'll, they'll have, for some reason, their body will shed fine, but then they'll get some stuck on their head. Or I had some that started and they didn't finish, and they were like, their, their shed was drying on, like, cuz I don't know if you noticed one that started shedding, they get halfway through, then they just go perch, like, it's, and I'm like, dude, and I'll like, try to like, leave them alone, but it's been all day. I go and they're still perched with it like that, and eventually that skin gets [ __ ] dry and it's, it becomes hard to get off the snake if you wait too long, you know? So there was at least two snakes or three snakes, like, I had to help their first shed, like, they just, like, I was worried that they were just going to sit there, so I had to get in there and [ __ ] like, help them get start moving. And then it came right off and I was like, "The [ __ ] what do you, what are you?" You know what I mean? But again, I don't know. Are we, are we doing too much too fast? I just, I felt a lot better getting that [ __ ] [ __ ] off of them because I don't. Yeah. It's kind of like a, it's like a reaction, right? Like you just want to get that shed off and help them out, right? Cuz you want them to survive and everything, but you, I've had the same thing where I open a tub and they've like half shed. And I'll leave them for a day, I'll come back the next day and like 50% of the time they'll have that shed off. So sometimes it just takes a couple days, but other times they just leave it on there. You know, I don't know. Yeah. I don't think you need to get too aggressive with assisting the shed out. You know, we see this all the time where I'll soak an animal for a day or sometimes two days and it'll get some of the shed off, but not all the shed. So, just leave it. Yeah. Yeah. If it's come off two months later, next time it sheds, you know, just don't, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, you know. You don't want eye caps, though. I'll tell you that much. You want, you want to make sure there's at least no shed on the eye caps or on the, where they could breathe. You want to make sure at least the head is cleared and, you know, but if they got some on their back or. The top, the top of the head seems to be a real common area where they, they don't get that little patch off the top of their head. I've got, I don't worry about that. I just leave them. Yeah. I think what happens sometimes with the babies is that you get, you almost get them too humid, and when they're starting to shed, like the skin breaks, you know, below the head, and then once it does, they get the body off and then they think they're done, but the head's still on there. And, and if you wait too long, it's [ __ ] impossible to get that little piece of skin off the head. It's like, it like dries stuck to it. Yeah. To where you're just. Leave it. Yeah. When if it's to that point, you know? Um, but yeah, so I want to go back to you real quick, Alex, as far as like, um, you know, did you food cycle in the middle of the year? Uh, like, you know, like, Okay, so when, when the spring pairings went down and you got what you got, you, you did a reset. So let's talk about how you reset. Did you, did you not feed things again for a couple months and then reintroduce food or did you just keep things normal? What were you, what were you doing with feeding for these girls that went for you?

No, I, I kept things the same way I'd always do it in the years past. Like, I, I just feed less during the winter. Like, right now I'm feeding a lot less and in the summer I feed heavier. So that's, I didn't change anything. I, you know, I just, I kept feeding them pretty heavy and it seemed to work. So, I mean, yeah, I, I didn't change anything. You know, I, I just said, like, they're either going to breed or they're not. And if they, if I have really bad results, then I'll just try something else the next season. But you stuck to a normal feeding schedule, every two weeks or what did you do? Like, yeah, like every two weeks. Yeah. Like, so when I'm like, really heavy feeding, sometimes I'll feed them like every week, but like a small meal, you know, like a large rat or something like, or not a large, a large mouse, you know. You want to do that during pairing, though, don't you? Like, isn't that when you want to start feeding small, frequent meals is while you're introducing the male? Isn't that, isn't that what you? Well, you know, I, I don't think that there's any rhyme or reason to this. I, I think that every snake is different. Everybody is different. Everybody's room is different. I, I don't, I don't necessarily think that it matters that much. You know, I, what I think matters is if you give that snake a time of year where they're getting less food and a time of year where they're getting more food so that they can dictate that there is change happening, that there is seasons. And if they, if you do that, I just think that that gives them more of a rhythm than rather than saying like, "Oh, well, you know, the book says like now I'm supposed to feed more, so I'm going to feed more." Or now I'm supposed to feed less, I feed less. I don't know if it necessarily matters that much. And I also dropped the temps obviously in the in the winter as well. So, in the summer it's it's hotter in here. And it just seemed to work for me, you know, like, who knows? Like, I could also try it next year or in two years and it might not work as good. I, I don't know. When you had them paired up, it was the middle of summer, though, right? It was like, you, there was during the hottest time of the year. Yeah. Yeah. It was hot. Yeah. And you were feeding, and you were feeding everybody, right? Yeah. I was feeding, feeding pretty heavy, you know, just every, every two weeks or whatever, you know, like, I, I still don't really keep track of like, you know, I don't, I don't have an app or whatever where I say, "Oh, this female ate three weeks ago. She needs to eat today." Like, I, I just come in here and I just, I just feed whenever I feed. Like, it's just, I don't, I don't think that they necessarily need a strict schedule of anything, you know? I just think that they do what they're going to do. So. No, but it's, but there is a time and place on when, like you said, you should let them know, "All right, you either need to get the food you get now because [ __ ]'s about to slow down," or like some sort of, some sort of trigger they need. For sure. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. I, I just think that it's important for every snake to go through some kind of cycle, whether that's food or temperature cycle or both. I think that's the most important. You know, and you can do that temperature cycle in the summer or the winter. Like, if you, for some reason, you want to like cool your snakes down in the summer, you can. I mean, it's your, it's your house. It's your room. If you can figure out a way to do that, you're more than welcome to. But I just prefer to use the weather to my advantage. So if it's hotter, I don't have to cool the room down as much. I can just cool it down a little bit because you guys know I'm on ambient. So like, that's what I do, you know? I just, I use the weather to my advantage. If it's, if it's hot outside, I just cool the room down enough to where it's, it keeps them warm, uh, in in the winter and in the summer as well. So. Um, Okay. So, again, remind me, you're you're feeding the smaller, more frequent meals in the, in the, in the midst of summer. That's when you're doing that. Okay. And then winter time, it's bigger meals, less frequent. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, again, I don't, I like sometimes I'll feed them like, like, so I feed all mine ASF. So when I say a small or when I say a large mouse or a small rat, I mean that equivalent size of an ASF. So, so like, I, I'll feed them like a, a small rat size ASF and then the next time maybe I'll feed them a, a large mouse or something like that, you know? Like, I, I genuinely don't have like a set thing like, just because it's an adult female, I don't say, "Oh, well, you get a small rat or you get whatever." It's just, yeah. Like, I, I don't have any sort of rhythm or rhyme or anything to it. I just, I feed when when I think that they need it and I don't feed when I think that they need it and I pair up whenever I, uh, whenever I think so. And that, and that really, that philosophy, that theory only comes with experience. Yeah. Alex says, "I feed them when I think they need it. I don't feed them when I don't." Yeah. All that comes with just observing your animals and years of experience. Yeah. And you know, I've also seen, I, I just see more people just taking it way too seriously. Like, they'll track everything. Over. Yeah. And I'm just like, bro, that is just so exhausting. And you can do that when you have three, four, five boas, but when you're up to 50, you know, in your room, you know, good, good luck with that. Like, that's just, you know, it's just, it's too much, you know, and, and I just think that overthinking just causes more problems than underthinking. Yeah. But I'm so glad you said that, Bill, because one of the things I struggle with is like, when someone somebody asks me, what you would think would be a simple question like, "How do you feed a female you're getting ready for breeding?" I mean, it's really all depends. Um, and again, I don't, I don't look at everything as a schedule at this point. Like, I look at a female, I either need to feed you this size or this size or this is what I have brought out and this is what you're getting. Um, the whole like, it's Friday, it's the second Friday of the month, I have to feed. I don't, I, I don't, I don't really look at the schedule anymore. Um, they're eating, but I'm just not, like, it's not like it's that time of the day type of thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, so much, you know, has the female breed the year before? Yeah. You know, did you rest her or or she's still recovering? Yes. Right. From this last year, and you want to breed her back to back years. Yes. Obviously, in that scenario, you're going to feed that female more heavily. Yeah. To get that weight on. Um, so a lot of factors go into it, but I, I think Alex is so on point. Can't overthink it. And with experience and knowing your animals, you'll figure out what they need. Yeah. And based off. See how how it'll be, how it'll, what we'll find out with you guys starting to do ultrasound on a regular basis now, too. Um, because I've had, you know, the, the two females that went last year or the year before. Um, did the same thing this year that I did last year and they look good. They seem ready. Put the male in there. Nothing to do. They want nothing to do with each other. And did the same thing that I did last year as far as food cycling. Same time of year, same, you know, same temperatures, same everything. And this year they're just not, they're not ready for whatever reason. Yeah. I mean, that's that, that's the way that it goes. And how many times have we said that's why there's not, you know, 40,000 of them available on Morph Market because you can do everything exactly the same and what you think is right, but they're just not ready. You know, they're just not ready to go. I, I put Freight Train in with two different females this year. He hasn't locked with either one of them. Yeah. And he's normally, you know, just a machine. He locks anything, any time. Well, that's because that's because he produced four clutches for you this year. Three. Three. He's like, "I want my water fill. I want my waterfall now, Bill. Come on. Give me bioactive. I deserve it." I deserve it. No, you know, again, dude, Brady, it's so like, and it does sound kind of like, "What the [ __ ] Bill?" Because you've had so many females go back to back for you. We've had other people on this show who've had females go back to back and you think like, "Oh yeah, like that's going to be me, dude." It could, but it also could be not you. You know what I'm saying? Because, dude, first and foremost, like, again, we all talk about how this wasn't an overnight thing for you, Bill. Like, you [ __ ] took years to figure out how to get to the point where your females got to this point. And not everyone ever gets to this point. You know what I'm saying? And here we are with a, a [ __ ] snake like you just mentioned that, you know, even after sired so many clutches, just probably isn't going to want to breed. Maybe just something in his head says, "I don't want to [ __ ] tonight. I'm good." I don't, I don't feel like it. You know what I'm saying? Um, and all these stars have to align sometimes, dude. There, I will say, like, it isn't about luck, and sometimes it is. Like, sometimes you got to make sure this male wants to go to town and, like, these things want to happen. Because you've, I've had a lot of people talk about how nothing's happened for them. I've had people who've had 10 pairings going, nothing, zero, and it's like, whoa, you know? But then again, it's like, that doesn't mean anything, but then it just wasn't the right time or it's not ready yet. I don't know. Yeah. Anybody says, anybody that says there's no luck involved in this game doesn't know what they're talking about. I, I think that if they're pairing up 10 animals and none of them are going, there's something wrong that they're doing. Yeah. You should probably look into that. Yeah, you really should. There's no way 10 out of 10 are not pairing for you. Pairing, and pair, pairing and not going. Yeah. They're pairing and not going. Or he's, or they're putting in 10, 10 animals and they're locking. They're not locking. Well, I mean, I've, I've heard all the above. I've heard like, "Dude, I did this pairing. I saw this many locks. She went off food." Nothing. Like the list goes down of like the action you could see. You could see zero action, get nothing. You could see a lot of action, still get nothing. You know what I'm saying? You can see zero action and get a clutch. And that's that's the case as well. You know, but then that feel like that's when luck kicks in. I feel like you got lucky, [ __ ]. Like, you know, we talk about those one and done. Yeah. That's that's awesome. Like, I, I want that kind of luck, that one and done [ __ ]. As long as they're all healthy and great, cool. Less work for the male. One and done. But I feel like that's like hitting a [ __ ] home run in the ninth inning. Yeah, that's luck. You know, that's you just happen to put the male in when the female, you know, is already obviously built follicles and she's, you know, just at the perfect, perfect timing when you get one and done. So, celebrate that when it happens. I'm happy, Alex, you mentioned that you didn't do anything different with feeding mid-year because I could have sworn you did. I like, I would have, and I think I almost sort of did, which I didn't get no action from it, but like, I tried to recycle everything that didn't go and I don't think that's necessary. I think you should just do it one time a year. Let them know this is the whole cycling moment and then let them decide if they want to go that year or not. I don't think you need to, I don't think you need to shut them down twice in a year. Um, no, no, I, I definitely would not shut them down twice. Yeah. Go ahead. Well, I was just going to say, like, you know, even if they didn't go or they didn't pair or whatever, I would have just kept pairing them up until they went, you know, like, like literally until until the winter. Like, if I hadn't gotten anything, they would still be paired up right now. So eventually they would have gone, you know, and then I would have just bred in the winter next year. I would have said, you know, the summer didn't work. Well, you have pairings right now or you have? No, no, no, no, no, no. I have no pairings right now. Okay. So, this is your off-season, you could say. As of right. You don't have nothing happening as far as pairings yet until what? March. Yeah, I mean, like probably April or May-ish. You know, I want to see what happens with the next, these next two clutches. I want to see how well these babies move. Um, because, you know, I don't want to be sitting on 50 boa babies and then pair up five more boas, you know? So, I just, I just want to see how well everything plays out before I decide when I want to pair again. Yeah. Going, going five for five is kind of like, "All right, [ __ ]. You want, you want, you want a." Yeah. It's. Dude, I, I almost forget how much work neonates are. Like, the adults are so easy and then the neonates are like, it's like every day you have to do something with, like, you have to go check on them and every single one of them you have to check on just to make sure that everything's good with it. I wonder what my profit and loss was with paper towels this year. I must have spent so much [ __ ] money on paper towels, bro. Like, oh my god. I've spent money on paper towels and six, no, eight ounce deli cups. Oh my god. How many thousands of 8 ounce deli cups have I gone through this year? A lot. Dude, I, I throw out so many of your deli cups, Bill. Like, there's so many deli cups. Hey, you got to admit that's a lot more sanitary than washing the same dish.

and putting it like I much rather just, okay, you [ __ ] in it, I'm throwing that away. Here's a fresh one versus like people who try to reuse them. And I think that's disgusting.

>> Yeah.

>> Just depends. I mean, Rico used to reuse it, but he had a dishwasher. If you put them in a dishwasher, it's fine.

>> Even then, I would trust a dishwasher.

>> Yeah, I I hand wash all my dishes. So, even the neonate ones.

>> Alex, you can afford a dishwasher, buddy. You're going to be okay. I have a dishwasher. I'm just I I don't I don't I don't trust it.

>> Are you talking about putting those disposable deli cups in a dishwasher?

>> No.

>> Well, I I I put them in the dishwasher to dry after I hand wash them.

>> The deli cup. You wash the deli cups?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know why? Because I care about this earth. Okay. I don't want plastic in the landfill.

[laughter]

>> Dude, that junior over there, [ __ ] penny saver advocate right here, dude. Holy [ __ ]

>> Al. Alex, dude, you are you serious?

>> Every week. Every week I wash 44 deli cups. And also the adults, too. But the adults don't have deli cups. They have like bigger water dishes.

>> What in the life on the spectrum are we talking about right now, bro?

[laughter]

[clears throat]

This is insane.

>> MJ, do you do you not know me by now? Like,

>> dude, washing a deli cup is [ __ ] next level, bro. I didn't know it was that serious. That's like that's basically how how how long does it take you to wash 44 deli cups?

>> Uh I mean honestly not that long. I mean no it really doesn't take me that long. Like 10 minutes 10 15 minutes.

>> I I I've decided in in my room I want you to start washing all of the

>> I don't know. No. See it? No. I can't I can't do it twice. I'll do it once. I can't I can't do it twice a week.

>> Dude, wait. Are you washing your actual food dishes in the same dishwasher or are you at least separating?

>> Well, I I hand wash all my dishes. I listen I I I just Yeah. Yeah. So, and I use different sponges, so don't think I'm using like a sponge for my plates and then going and scrubbing out, you know, neonate dishes or whatever. Like I I use different sponges.

>> Is it Are you going to continue this or like like if you get more success like let's say next?

>> It's It's honestly right on the edge right now. Like these next two clutches are probably gonna push me over. I'm probably gonna have to just start throwing them out.

>> Yeah, thank God. What the [ __ ]

>> Listen, it's I feel I feel like I'm being hella judged right now. Like I don't think it's that weird.

>> I I think you are being judged.

>> Yeah,

>> I think it's weird as [ __ ] if you [ __ ] rewash a deli cup.

>> I mean, they call them disposable for a reason.

>> Well, they're not disposable if you wash them out.

>> Okay. Do you realize hot water on these cups? Like the cup's not the same after you wash it with hot water. It like shrinks a little bit. Like like that those are like chemicals. I feel like I feel like when you melt plastic, you're only making things worse for you, pal. And then you reuse it.

>> Here we go. Here come the conspiracies. Go ahead. Go ahead.

>> Hey, listen, bro. How many How many deli cups you have to wash tonight? I'm just curious.

>> No, I do dishes tomorrow. I'll FaceTime you.

[laughter]

>> What's crazy? What's crazy is Marshall does not back up this kind of behavior at all right now. Like what do you mean this at all?

>> Normally he would be like, "Hey, give him a break." You know, he's a grant [ __ ] But no, he ain't saying [ __ ] You're on your own on this one, dude.

>> I Dude, I know I'm on my own. I I don't I don't recommend it to anybody. It's just something that I like to do.

>> Okay. I'm glad you said that. So, it's just a bad

>> You like to Wait, you like to do it?

>> Yeah. I I like I like to like I like I I just feel like I feel like washing out the dishes is just I don't know cuz like whenever you get them from a factory, you don't know where that deli cup has been. Like it's it went through a whole factory process. They didn't wash it at the factory. Like it's it's just it just went through the assembly line and all this [ __ ] and it's all nasty.

>> Who's Okay, who's in your head who's working in these factories? I'm just curious.

>> Well, I mean they do come from China so

>> Wow, Alex. What else do you want to say about that?

>> They're fit.

>> I'm just saying I'm just saying listen, I don't I don't feed my snakes Chinese rodents either. So,

>> China's actually pretty clean. They're sanitary as [ __ ] if you really look into it. So,

>> okay. Well, I mean, are are you going to order from the big rodent companies and feed that to your snakes?

>> I breed my own.

>> So do I.

>> Yeah, we're talking deli cups here, buddy. Okay.

>> Okay.

[laughter]

>> I think Alex is gonna start making his own deli cups. I yeah, you know, if I if I had the ability to, I probably would.

>> I think I think Alex is going to start throwing away his deli cups after this episode.

[laughter]

>> Dude, just I don't think it's I don't think it's that weird like just to wash your own deli cups.

>> Don't worry, I'll I'll clip this. Don't worry.

>> Can [laughter] Can we move on to a more relevant topic than Alex's deli washing practices, [laughter]

>> please? Woo. Yes, we're we'll move forward. Okay, we have we have the wrap-up topic of the episode. Anyways, we'll go around the horn with some uh final statements or clo, you know, listen, last of 2025. Um, it's my favorite time of year. I you know, I I I just want to say uh thank you so much for coming together on this episode. Alex, you know, again, I had you here tonight because dude, you really blew it out of the water this year. Um, welld deserved. Um, but you know, if I had to ask a question as far as like what you see coming in the next five years, um, do you think the growth with condos will chill out? Um, like after a couple years of people realizing it's not that much of a [ __ ] roll out carpet type of thing or or do you think that the buzz is going to continue on? Like where do you see condos really leading into 2026 in the following years?

>> No, I mean I think they'll always grow. You know, I think that the entire reptile market right now is in a little bit of a lull. Um, you know, it's we're still feeling the after effects of COVID, right? Like we were on such a big high during COVID. We're still kind of either sinking or at the bottom or plateauing or whatever you want to call it. I I don't think there's really much, you know, I don't think there's anywhere to go but up from here, you know? I I think it's just going to do nothing but grow. And I mean, because [clears throat] they really are amazing animals. Like whether you want to breed them or not, like they're just amazing animals to have. like they're they're the best snake that you could have honestly in my opinion that it's just they're they're just great animals. I I think that people are really starting to understand the true value of these things. I I [clears throat] think we're just at the beginning of it.

>> And Marshall, um generations in, man, you you've seen a lot, you know, where where do you see things heading, you know, and where where do you see yourself heading?

>> Who knows? Yeah, that that's up in the air. But, uh, I think, um, I think we're at an early, not early, but there's just there's a lot of new people coming into it. Um, and I I think it'll, I'm curious to see how these a lot of these guys who are moving over from other species that, you know, have a um, obviously have a, you know, somewhat of a mind for for breeding snakes. how that experience and knowledge transfers to green trees versus whatever other species that we're working with. Um, will it stay, you know, as strong as it is right now forever? You know, who knows? Um, just depends how many new people come in, right?

>> Yeah. And then we'll take it to Bill because, you know, again, Bill's

>> I've seen it I've seen it go up and down over the years. You know, I've seen captive bred babies go from 350, 400 bucks to, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars. Now, obviously, it depends on the on the like, you know, there was times when I had babies and would advertise them. There's no no morph market back then, but uh have them on kingnake.com and they would sit there for weeks and weeks and months and, you know, whatever. It wasn't as easy to sell them as it is right now. Um, so I've seen it go both ways,

>> Bill. Yeah, I agree with Marshall. I think there's es and es and flows in all of this. Um the economy is good right now. Um I think that um I think the future looks good for us for anybody that's keeping breeding or or just getting into these. Um, you know, I I came a generation after Marshall, so I have not really seen the lull in Condro sales that that Marshall, you know, is describing. Who knows what's going to happen out there. Um, but I think that there's enough demand still to this day that vastly outweighs the the supply and that's on all levels. Um,

>> yeah,

>> that's on lower end um, locality yellows all the way up to the highest end, you know, designer reds. I think there's still plenty of room for growth. Um, I don't know how long that'll last. I have no idea. I don't have a crystal ball. Um, but I think for the foreseeable future, all of us that are keeping these things and producing these things are in good shape.

>> Yeah. And what I would have to say to all this is, you know, people can only speculate what they see being sold on morph markets or what they're hearing on social media, but one thing I found out for sure this year, which I'm I'm sure you and uh Marshall, you Bill, you guys know this. I'm sure Alex, I'm I don't know if you've gotten this yet, but like the random person you have inquiring that has no social media, they just [ __ ] love condos and they've been they somehow know who you are and they want to spend money with you. I feel like we're always gonna have those people, dude. Might not have like a bunch of them, but we're gonna have people who legit just love reptiles because they love them. It's not because social media, it's because they [ __ ] love this [ __ ] And that's always going to keep this hobby afloat or those kind of people. I feel like

>> I I am shocked at the number of people like you described, MJ, that come out of the woodwork.

>> Yeah.

>> And all of a sudden just inquire

>> about animals that I have no idea who who they are. Um, but there just seems to be an endless amount of people coming out of the woodwork that want to get involved and start working with these animals, which is great for all of us. And I think it's great for our for our hobby. Um, so

>> yeah,

>> I I I I'm just thankful every time somebody messages me and says that, you know, they want one of my animals, I don't know how long that'll last. Um, but I'm just uh super really just super blessed, excited, and feel like that I'm lucky, you know, anytime anybody inquires about one of my animals.

>> Yeah. What's crazy, too, just to end this topic, like there was a couple big [ __ ] like there was a couple collections that went up for scraps this year, one of them being a basing collection, couple other condo stuff, and m majority of the stuff was all purchased by one person. And again, these are like people that no never heard I could tell you this name, you never heard of them. Um, and it's like [ __ ] crazy to me, you know? We're talking like six figures. Like this kind of money being spent by somebody nobody knows about because they don't have social media and they don't give a [ __ ] about social media. Yeah. They just they're doing it for what why they're doing it. I mean, there's a lot Let me say this. There's a lot of Josh Hansen's out there. You guys know who Josh Hansen is, right? [ __ ] people like that out there who just want badass facilities and they just want the best of the best. And so, yeah, man. Beautiful place to be. I got to tell you that much. Um, but uh let's go to uh Alex. Alex, anything you want to wrap up? Anything you want to end tonight's episode? I mean, this was for you, man. Like, this this Christmas special was for elf Alex. So,

>> er Alex,

>> help. Yeah. Santa's Santa's Santa's big helper. So, what do you what do you have to say on tonight's episode to close us off, man?

>> Well, you know, first of all, I just want to say like MJ, as much as I killed it this year, you did as well, dude. We both did extremely extremely well this year.

>> Um, you know, you you said 67 babies, right?

>> Yeah. Well, yeah. 70 hatch, 67, you know.

>> Okay. I mean, that's that's blowing it out of the park, bro. Like, especially after all you've been through. So, I definitely want to give you props on what you've did this year as well.

>> And, um, you know, everybody in this room right now is all I consider all of you such close friends of mine, and I really appreciate it. Even Marshall. Um,

[laughter]

>> So, thank you guys so much. Like, I I really do appreciate everything that everyone has done for me. And like, you know, to all my followers and everybody that hits me up and and ask for advice or ask for available animals and everything, you know, just I I when I was coming into this, I did not see this happening at all. I thought it was just going to be, you know, something that I did on the side or a hobby or whatever, but it's turned into so much more than that. you know, S coming and staying at my house for two weeks, coming from halfway across the world just to stay with me and go to Bill's party and all this stuff and

>> like everybody everybody here is just such a close friend of mine now and I just I appreciate it so much.

>> Sweet, man. All right. Well, Marshall, what do you have to say? You don't We know you're not going to be as sweet as Alex right now, but you know, what do what do you have to say to close off tonight's episode, Grinch?

>> Um, no, man. Same same thing. I'm excited about where the uh where the where the hobby is. Excited there's a a lot of new people coming in. Excited that uh the show has uh been, you know, a hit with people and getting a lot of good information out there and, you know, bringing people to the forefront that you may not have uh heard of or seen before. So, all all good stuff.

>> All right, Santa. What do you have to say, man? You a lot a lot of new keepers we've gotten this year, Santa. a lot of uh you know ones that have been around for the last handful of years and a lot of veterans still around. So what do you have to say to everyone out there Santa?

>> Well you know this is the season to be thankful you know and uh not not just for condro but our family and our friends and um so it's it's just the time of the year that we should be thankful for everything that we have and I'm certainly thankful uh for what this podcast has has brought to uh to myself personally and and to the people that I care about. Um, so I just hope 2026 is half as good as 2025 was.

>> Yeah, couldn't agree more, man. And I think it will be. I really do. Um, you know, at the end of the day, we're doing what we love, you know, and so it can only get better. And I I just I feel like Marshall's years are only going to get better from here on out, too. I really

>> I really because his friends are doing good.

>> No,

>> you are who you hang around with, Marshall. And you hang around with us a lot. So you you're you're on the up and up, buddy. Okay. I'm rooting for you and I really want one of your snakes.

[laughter]

>> That's what I was gonna say.

>> Stop trying to butter me up, man. It's not working.

>> It's not working.

>> Who's going to get one? That's what I want. There's got to be a [ __ ] wager out there. Who's going to get one of Marshall's babies first? Is it It keeps me up at night sometimes. I'm not going to lie. Um

>> I've got a good feeling it's going to be me.

>> I would live with that. But then if it's not me next, I won't live with that. I will be very very very on Marshall's ass and like [ __ ] I'll probably just go back to listening to Slipnot every day and just [ __ ] [laughter] angry.

>> But Marshall, you got to let some go at some point, dude. All right, enough is enough. Please.

>> I thought you were letting some go.

>> Yeah. Yeah, Marshall,

>> you know you thought wrong, man.

[laughter]

>> And we're GONNA END IT WITH THAT. HEY,

>> I KNOW, RIGHT?

>> WRONG.

>> OKAY. Merry Christmas, fellas. Um, amazing aore on IG, Red Mountain Herps. Okay, Marshall Mendes and of course the mayor aka Santa Claus. Give it up. It's a wrap for this Christmas SPECIAL, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. LET'S GO.

[applause]

>> Merry Christmas, guys. Merry Christmas.

>> Merry Christmas, guys.

>> Hey, good night, boys. Thank you so much. All right, I appreciate you.

>> Peace. Later, guys. Hey, great great special. I appreciate everyone out there, and I really, really hope you guys enjoyed this episode. I hope you enjoy your holidays, man. I really do. 2025 was a good year, man. I think next year is going to be better. So, if you agree, hit that like button. If this is your first time watching, hit that subscribe button. Hit that notification bell. Select all. You'll be reminded of every episode released out of the network. And again, shout out to all my sponsors. Find all my links to the sponsors in the description below. Join the Trap Talk Patreon family if you want to connect to the Discord. Amazing Instagram group chat. And then also get mad information as far as Trapfest 2026. It's going to be one of the biggest years. Promise you right now, man. But thank you so much again. MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM THE TRAP. YOU guys are beautiful. Have a good night and I'll see you at the top. Sorry for the interruption, folks, but a quick word from our sponsors. Green tree pythons, emerald treeboas, and plenty other boreal snakes have been quite the popularity here at the Trap Talk Reptile Network, which brings me to today's sponsor, the Reptile Perch. Head over to the Reptile Perch.com and reptile perch on Instagram. See what type of design PVC perch is best for your boreal reptile. But first and foremost, I would also check out David Braum's Green Tree Python availability on the website. You can also check out his Instagram just to stay current on any projects or any productions that he posts. Thank you so much, David Bronze, for your ongoing support. Looking forward to seeing what you have to show in the 2025 season. When you think about building a good community and being a leader of that community, nobody comes to mind better than Mark Hager over at Texas Condro. That's right. Make sure you head over to TXondro on Instagram and also head over to Mark's website. See what he has available green tree python-wise and be ready for quite the 2025 green tree python breeding season out of Mark Hager. He's a veteran in the green tree python game. One of the best and nicest uh breeders in the green tree python game. He's been putting on the whole state of Texas for as long as I've known him. So, if you want to see all the amazing other condro keepers out of the state of Texas, another good reason to go follow Mark Hagar over at TXondro on Instagram. And again, head over to his website, texasconcondros.com. You can find all the links in the description below. Thank you so much, Mark Hager, for supporting the trap. One of the biggest growths we have in the reptile industry today are the rare species of reptiles that aren't worked with. That's right. That's why I went ahead and partnered up again with Brian Susan over at Sundown Reptiles. Brian works with species such as cahooa geckos, gargoyle geckos, all species of tree monitors. He works with abonia and many other cool species geckos that you can check out all on his website. Head over to sundownretiles.com. See what he has available. Brian's one of the best doing it in the reptile industry today. He's been on the show multiple times. So, make sure you check out all of Brian Susan's episodes on Trap Talk Reptile Network. but more importantly for the highest quality of captive bred reptiles. Make sure you head over to sundownret reptiles.com and make sure you give him a follow on Instagram. Thank you again, Brian Susan over at Sundown Reptiles. One of the things I love about being a part of the reptile industry is all the learning. Okay, learning can be fun and I could prove that to you. Thank you so much to today's sponsor, Gary Scabino over at GS Reptiles. I highly recommend you head over to his YouTube channel, follow all this man's content when it comes to learning about rare species of snakes you could be keeping in the hobby and also just finding out how easy a lot of these rare species of snakes are to keep in general. So, thank you so much, Gary Scabino of GS Reptiles. Again, head over to his YouTube channel. Also, head over to his Instagram to be on top of all of his current work and be ready for a big year over at GStiles. Thank you so much, Gary, for your ongoing support. I really appreciate it.