Transcription
I mean, I'm I'm female because I am female. Yes. And that's because I actually am. And I can think I can think that I'm a I can think that I'm a I'm a I'm a German Shepherd dog if I want, but it doesn't mean that I am.
Okay, I need you to genuinely pay attention for the next 13 minutes because I've sat through a lot of TV debates and this one actually made me put my phone down. Julia Hartley Brewer sits across from gender doctor Helen Weberly and within the first 10 seconds you can already feel this isn't going to be some polite scripted panel chat. Julia opens with one blunt line. She doesn't believe there's any such thing as a trans kid and instead of answering Helen immediately tries to redirect into the equality act. That dodge right there tells you everything about how the rest of this exchange is about to go. One person is going to ask direct questions. The other is going to talk around every single one of them. stick around because it only gets more intense from here.
Do you believe that there are because I don't believe there's any such thing as a trans kid? Right. So, do you believe that there are children? So, do you don't think that Let me ask a question. No. No. Because I can't just let you say I I don't believe that. I can say yes. Yeah. But I can interrupt. Yes. So, so you don't believe there's anything such thing as a trans child. So, the way Okay. Okay. You know there isn't. But the Equality Act has a protected characteristic which is somebody who underos gender reassignment doesn't mean they are trans. No, it doesn't. So, You know, there is a protected characteristic, but it doesn't mean that they they actually are trans. That's what I want to ask you specifically. Do you believe that there are children who are born in the wrong body? Born in the wrong body. Again, it's just Julie, you need to really watch your language. This is Don't tell me what language to use. That's not going to go down well for you, Helen. Well, I just did. Transgender I just did. Transgender children exist. There are children who believe that they're born in the wrong body exist. I didn't say they're born in the wrong body because it's such an That's why I asked you that question. What's the motive? That's what a lot about the quality. That's what a lot of children say that they're born in the wrong body. People like No, they don't. People That's what we're told by people. That's what trans activists constantly say. People feel they're born in the wrong. You need to watch me a little bit more on social media. I'm good. I won't need to do that. Okay. So, you don't think that phrase is You don't think that is born in the wrong body? What an offensive thing to say. You accept that. Okay. So, no. you I was going to say you're a doctor by training. Um so so that's basic biology. So what is it that a trans child believes or is in your view that is different from any other child? If you've got a little boy or a little girl who says I believe I'm trans. I believe that I am a girl or a boy the opposite from what they have been. I don't believe in a sign of birth which for what they are. What is it that's different about them? Well the belief is not their belief. their their their understanding is is of who they are. It's your belief. You believe by looking down there that that is a little boy and what I believe that someone with a penis is a boy and I'm mistaken in that. Would you like me to finish on that? Just clarify. Okay. So, you believe by looking at a penis that that child is a boy. Yes, I do. But that child will may well be saying to you, you've got it wrong. Your belief is wrong. Actually, inside my soul, inside my heart, inside my brain, I'm a girl. And people like you who deny that do an awful lot of harm. And people like you who put that out there on big social media channels do ever such a lot of harm to those people who are transgender. And that's difficult.
Right. Um if my child said to me, I'm Spider-Man. Should I affirm that as well? [laughter] Do not do not think I've not been asked that before. Exactly. Spider-Man is not an identity. Spider-Man's not a sickman character from the television of a bloke who climbs but a child could honestly believe that they are spider belief. Remember remember we unders we explained that a minute ago it's your belief they are they are they are talking factually and I and the rest of the world and the whole of history. We've all been wrong about biological sex and it's not really a thing. It's entirely a It's entirely something that you know in your own heart. Is that Is that what you're saying? Well, how do you know what you are? Do you know or is it that I mean I've known all my life I was given female on my birth certificate because I haven't got a penis. I've got a vagina. I've given birth I've got pregnant and given birth to a baby. I think the evidence is very very very clear that I'm a woman. I've never questioned that. The vast majority of people don't question it. And until very recently when we before this started being pushed as an as a political agenda, very few children questioned it. Now here's the thing. Yes, they did. If I may. And actually they they we understand it so well that it isn't in our UK law. And do you think that your womanhood is dictated because somebody else put female on and because somebody else made you pregnant, got you pregnant and then that makes you a woman? I mean I'm I think because I I am female because I am female. Yes. because I actually am and I can think I can think that I'm a I can think that I'm a I'm a I'm a German shepherd dog if I want but it doesn't mean that I am German shepher she shepherd is a dog we're talking about human identities here climbs up buildings dogs are a different species you believe that it's wrong so if a child says whether it's a patient whether it's a child to their parents says you know I know I've not got a penis but I believe I am a boy that that should reaffirmed. There's that is clear to me. It's it's gender dysphoria. It's a mental health issue. We know from the cash review. Are you a mental health specialist? Is that your classifi? No, I'm not letting you get away with you can at the end. Let me quote. There will be transgender people listening to this and they can listen to it and listen to cash review carried out by one of the leading pediatricians in the country. It's been widely accepted. It has not been remotely discredited. That's that again that is simply untrue. The cash review made it very clear and this was something that was widely available as evidenced already that the vast majority of young people who not just attended the Taptock clinic in London but also um other transgender uh treatments that they um are children who have largely they're either autistic, they're gay children, um they have other issues, lots of other mental health issues, depression, anxiety, some have been abused um lots of other issues. Um, is it appropriate to affirm in your word their mistaken view in my view that they are we use the phrase born in the wrong body or that they are the different gender from what has been assigned at birth. Um, and to give them a treatment not just say yes you can change your name to Jane or John or the other way around but to give them a treatment which prevents the normal natural timely development of their bodies. Well, I just want to say to all the transgender people who are watching this show that you don't have a mental illness. And what I would like to say mental health problem. Okay. I'd like to say to all of the people who listen to this listening to this show, all transgender people, that just because you are transgender does not mean that you have a mental health problem. But I would also like to say that attitudes such as yours cause mental health problems in people who are simply trying to live their life. And you're stopping people living their lives. And you said I was going to have a go. You you and your description there labing off all of those attributes of the of a transgender person denies them their identity and denies them their right to live peace. Deny them their identity by listing oh it must be sexual abuse. It must be autism. No, I did the same. The biggest review carried out by a leading pediatrician in this country looked into this and and and repeated evidence is very very clear again and again that actually that that that the the vast majority of children who who appear at clinics who who claim to believe that they they were born in the wrong body or whatever phrase we want to use have actually got other issues which perhaps more of a bigger explanation. And the vast majority of the ch the vast majority of the children who if they're left to their own devices either quote grow out of this go and live a perfectly happy healthy life as as as gay men or lesbian women and and I'm saying how can you justify giving drugs to change people's children's bodies es and they are children's especially when we know that puberty blockers have not been used by the tabtock and elsewhere as a way of applause we're a pause to have a think. Or is the fact more than 90% of the children who were given these drugs or the young people given these drugs go on to take uh um hormones to actually you know try and sex change hormones and leaving them often infertile cap. No, with no you're very you're very very medically aware and you're talkingual rubbish. talking about really me and I'd like like to say to all the parents of transgender children who listen to your show and hopefully don't watch your stuff on social media that their children are not a problem. Their children are absolutely right to live happily and and I'm not asking I don't want anyone not to live happily. Can you address my can you address my point? And and actually no they are not gay. If your child is trans your child is trans. Nothing to do with their sexuality. And no, they are not report. And no, they are not all victims of sexual abuse. I didn't say that. I never said that. I didn't say that. Well, I didn't I mean, I literally You're just making it up. No, I didn't. You didn't mention those words today. No, I didn't say they're not all. I didn't say they were all victed was victims of sexual abuse. And the only one you don't list is true transgender children. What does true transgender children mean? It means that somebody else put female on their birth certificate and they're not. And they're not. Exactly. What's the youngest age that your your business that you founded along with your husband who I believe has been struck off as a GP. You're you're no longer registered, but you are you are you know you're a doctor. You no longer have a license to practice. That was your choice in this in this in this in this country. What's the youngest age at which puberty blockers have been given to uh a an under 18 child? told us I'm going to use that word by your company, Gender GP. The appropriate time to give puberty blockers is when puberty starts. What's the youngest age? The youngest age for puberty blockers. I mean, some children at the age of three or four can start puberty and we give them puberty blockers. That's different. That's a medical treatment. Oh, that's a medical treatment. That's a medical treatment for precocious puberty. Comes back in again with now medical. That is literally what that is for. Be really careful for a child. Oh, I see. That's for Are you under the illusion? Are you under the illusion that people who don't have a medical degree are are incapable of reading what medical experts say? Well, interpreted interpreted. You think you think I've wrongly interpreted? So, when children are given puberty blockers for precocious puberty at an inappropriate time to slow their body down to to enable them to develop naturally that that is a medical treatment as opposed to a preferential treatment from a child who believes that they are trans. You understand the difference? You're so cruel. I'm cruel. Now Hannah, I just asked you before we went to break. I want to ask you what is the youngest age that you have given your company gender GP has given sold I mean I don't think you give them away for free uh puberty blockers. You said youngest could be age three. What what is the youngest age as far as you're aware from the company you founded that? Well, we've been struggling with the terminology. The terminology is that doctors prescribe puberty blockers for young people who need them. So that's I'm asking your I'm asking your company. Yes. And the doctors will prescribe puberty blockers for children who've gone into puberty. Whether that's precocious puberty or whether that's um for transgender youngest age, a child that hasn't gone into precocious puberty. When puberty starts, so puberty starts in people um for trans reasons. No, I'm just the reason the reason they transgender young people entering puberty. So people with ovaries can enter puberty as early as seven. Why can't you just answer the question? What age? We didn't hear me say seven now. No, but that's you're talking about precocious puberty. So you're saying puberty can start as your So you're saying that your company has given puberty blockers to children as you prescribe. I didn't ask about doctors. I asked you about your company. But a company can't send the people working for the company that you're the founder of the doctors. The doctors. Yeah. Working with the youngest age they g 10 whenever puberty starts.
This is the moment that made my jaw drop. Julia asks Helen point blank. What is the youngest age her company, Gender GP, has given puberty blockers to a child. Watch what happens next. Helen doesn't say a number. She starts talking about precocious puberty, about doctors prescribing, about terminology being struggled with. So, Julia asks again and again. She asks this question something like six or seven times. And every single time Helen pivots somewhere else. Puberty starts at 7 8 9. Okay, but that's still not an age for the question that was actually asked. This is the part of the clip where you stop watching a debate and start watching someone get cornered by their own evasiveness. Julia doesn't raise her voice. She doesn't need to. She just keeps repeating the same four words. What is the age until the dodge becomes the story itself? That's not bad TV. That's the whole interview in one exchange.
And is that for trans for for because that's for seven years old. And and and your company has been criticized by a senior judge. It wasn't the party to this particular court case for not informing young patients about the risks of things like the train they're getting onto train tracks. Yeah. The yeah in I'm so sorry I'm going to be you know quoting some of the risks there are infertility sexual dysfunction bone density damage brain developmental risk. Now a lot of that comes from further down the line but we know the evidence is clear. Don't have a medical degree but the evidence is clear. Read the reports. see what the medical experts who do know say that actually the vast majority of youngsters who start on these uh these puberty blockers move on to cross sex hormones and that's what the re reaction is. How can a young child how can anyone under the age of 18 how can they how can they make a decision about their future like that? I think we we have to give young people credit for understanding a lot of things in health care. So whether it's going in for a broken arm, whether it's going in for your adenoids, whether it's going in for grommets, whether whether it's going for puberty blockers, whether it's going for open heart surgery, you have to understand that parents and children make decisions. But a lot of that is medical treatment for a problem. And that Yeah. And the problem is gender in congrance, gender dysphoria, the vital development. And the reason that we got into this this discussion be here today was because of this campaign. Um you're wearing a t-shirt. Uh oh gosh, yes. Proud of my stripes. This is this is the lush campaign and it's got a tiger apparently celebrating having a mc having mistctomy scars cutting off perfectly healthy breast. Proud of my scars. Yeah. And actually repulsive. Yeah. But pubed that was what you were wearing. I mean it literally makes me want to vomit. Oh, would you like to can we have a bucket in here please? But puberty blockers prevent this. So on the one hand you're saying puberty blockers we shouldn't we could give them to any anybody else but not for trans things as you say for non-medical reasons and and yet actually that puberty blockers prevent breast development in transgender boys.
So where does that leave us after 13 minutes of this? Julia Hartley Brewer came into this interview with one clear goal. Get a straight answer to a straight question and by the end of it you've watched it yourself so you can judge whether she actually got one. Helen Weberly, for her part, kept circling back to language, to identity, to feelings, while the real practical questions about ages, treatments, and outcomes kept slipping right past her every single time they came up. I'm not here to tell you what to think about any of this. I'm just showing you exactly what happened, imaging in order so you can form your own opinion. But I'll say this much. Moments like the one around 11 minutes in where the same question gets asked over and over before finally landing are exactly why clips like this end up everywhere online. So now I want to hear from you. Did Julia actually get a real answer out of her or did Helen manage to dodge it successfully despite everything? And out of this entire exchange, which single moment stood out to you the most? Drop your answer in the comments below. I read every single one. And if you want more breakdowns exactly like this one, make sure you hit subscribe and turn on notifications so you never miss the next video.