Transcription
Student, before listening to today's interview, I remind you that you can use the free resources, the vocabulary guide, the transcript, and the flashcards. You have everything on the website spanishlanguagecoach.com, and there you will also see that on May 5th, registrations for my courses open. So, if you are interested in improving your Spanish with me, I recommend that you go there and leave your email on the waiting list for the next round of student registrations. And now I leave you with the episode. Enjoy! Today I have Pablo from Dreaming Spanish with me. Hello Pablo, how are you? Hello, how are you? Thanks for inviting me. Thanks to you for accepting the invitation. And Pablo, normally what we do on this podcast is that the previous guest leaves a question for the next guest, which is you. So Juan Diego, the question I leave for you is: if you could give one piece of advice to an advanced Spanish student to continue their progress, their advancement. Just one piece of advice, what would it be? Well, set up your life in Spanish. Try to do everything. Continue doing everything you do in your day-to-day life. But do it in Spanish. Because that way, it's automatic. Maybe at first it requires a bit of changing things, a bit of effort, but then you get used to it and you keep having that, that contact with the language automatically, without having to actively do anything yourself every day. Yes, yes, yes. That's happening to me now with English, for example, since I no longer live in England. So now I try when I can, apart from reading or watching series and stuff. I don't know, the washing machine breaks down and I don't know how to change a part, so I look for the video on YouTube, I try to make it in English to stay in touch with the slightly more complex vocabulary and to follow a recipe in English, everyday things like that, as you say. That's hard to get rid of later, because then in English you find more information. If you start learning a third language but then you find it hard to get rid of English because it's much easier to find almost everything. Yes, yes, yes, it's true. You speak quite a few languages because you have also lived and currently live outside of Spain. Give a brief summary of your linguistic resume. Yes, well, when I was, when I was in school, in high school, I never studied in an academy, and in university, we didn't do English either, so nothing. I learned during ESO and Bachillerato, like everyone else. And then, yes, when I studied computer science, there were many topics, many things that you ended up having to look for information and read information in English. And I think little by little, at least the reading level, vocabulary and stuff, without me trying, without me realizing it much, it improved. And then it was more with the Erasmus. And then I also got a scholarship to go and do a master's degree in California, where my level really went up more. That's when I got serious. I started watching series, movies, and stuff. More or less a year before I went on Erasmus. And yes, I reached a level where I could say I spoke fluently and was comfortable both in university classes and understanding series, movies, and stuff. And after the master's degree in California, I got a scholarship to go and study in Japan, to do a PhD in Japan. And at that time, I wasn't yet so involved in the world of languages, but while researching ways to learn Japanese, I found All Japanese, All the Time. I don't know if you know what it is. Could it be that they had a podcast and that it's one of the first podcasts created in the world of language learning, or not? Initially, it was a blog, it was a blog. I don't know if it had a podcast, it had, there was, he made some videos on YouTube or something when YouTube was still a baby. Mostly a blog. They were blog posts in which he recommended living your whole life in Japanese, doing everything you could while you were awake, even when you were sleeping. I don't recommend this, but he even told you to listen to Japanese while sleeping. And so, in a year and a half, he learned enough to then go to Japan, have a job interview in Japanese, and get hired in Japan. And then I told myself, well, if he can do it, so can I. And that's how. And I did that for about six months. I started doing it six months before I went to Japan, and it worked very well for me. I would say that in, I don't know, half a year or so, before going to Japan, and then half a year living in Japan, I already had a conversational level for everyday life. I basically had the level I thought I would have after finishing my PhD, I don't know, spending three years in Japan. I reached it about six months after being in Japan and I said: wow, this, this, this works. But at that time, I was still doing, well, computer science topics. My research in Japan was also in computer science, but towards the end of my stay in Japan, I became a bit disillusioned. I was no longer so interested in what I was doing there. I didn't finish the PhD, I didn't get to do the thesis, and I became more interested in languages. I wanted to investigate a bit why the way I had learned Japanese had worked so well, why previously with English too. I had noticed that I knew how to form sentences and use grammar that had never been taught to me in school. And well, I found a school in Bangkok that taught Thai with a method that fit very well with this. With All Japanese, All the Time and with my experiences, so I decided to go there and try their method to see how it went and study Thai there for a year. So I did that. I learned Thai there too. Then, over the years, a bit here, a bit there, I also learned French. I have never lived in France. But well, I get by in French too, more or less. So yes, after a year in Thailand, the method they used at the school. We will probably talk about this later, but it's what we adapted to create the content we make with which we teach Spanish in Dreaming Spanish. And well, after spending a year there at the school, I continued learning on my own as well, and now I am learning Chinese, Mandarin Chinese, which I would say I have an intermediate, intermediate, intermediate level, let's say, about halfway through the intermediate level. Great. And this is for someone who wasn't an expert in languages in high school, which also proves that in adulthood, you can learn languages perfectly, even reach polyglotism and master several languages calmly. And Pablo, I wanted to ask you a question because I knew you had studied computer science. Have you found any connections between how computer science works? I'm a total failure at it, but the topic of computer code, language, with your method of comprehensible input or language learning in general. No, nothing directly. I mean, connections in my work, yes, because on our platform we have a website, we are working on a mobile application for work, so it has clearly helped me in that sense, that technology can be used to learn languages. There is that point of contact, right? But in terms of learning computer science, learning to use computers, or being good at it, or programming, with learning languages, no, I haven't found any direct point of contact. Even though languages, programming languages are called languages, they have nothing to do with it. It's something, it's more like mathematics, a programming language. It's very specific rules that are always the same. When this is put this way, it will always do this, and it's very different from what you are doing when speaking a language, which is, you are in real-time converting your thoughts, what's happening in your head, into words. And you also have to choose between many different ways of arranging it. And I don't know, if. I would say they are completely different. Of course. And tell us a bit about the method you work with, comprehensible input, and a bit about how it applies to different levels when we learn a language. Well, comprehensible input, or well, the theory of acquisition of. Well, there are several ways to call it, but it's based on research that has been done since the 70s or so. The most famous person for this topic is the researcher Stephen Krashen. And well, comprehensible input is what you receive, the input you receive, the information, whether it's listening or reading, that you understand. So, you can talk about the method as a comprehensible input method, but well, technically, comprehensible input is what you are listening to or reading. So it has to be comprehensible. This means you have to understand what you are listening to, what you are reading. And well, this is based on the fact that there are two different ways to learn or try to learn a language. One thing is to study it, to study the grammar rules explicitly and so on, and another thing is to learn it implicitly, as children do, because they don't know how to do it any other way, which is to expose yourself to many examples of the language in context, in a context where you can directly connect it with the meaning it refers to, with the objects, with the actions that are happening right now, and that allows you to gradually learn everything. Basically, vocabulary, grammar, pronunciation, everything. And the fact that explicit learning, learning the rules, or even having pronunciation or word meanings explained to you, doesn't directly translate into implicit knowledge, and implicit knowledge is what you need to speak fluently, to be able to express yourself, to acquire. We distinguish between learning or studying and acquisition and having it, having acquired it. Having that implicit knowledge is what you need to be able to use the language without thinking, to be able to. Because when you are having a conversation, you are talking about something. You have to be thinking about that something you are talking about, and not about how you are saying it, how you are going to explain it. We do that in our native language, right? And if we want to learn a language, to be able to speak it without having to think about it all the time, to be translating in our heads and so on. Then sooner or later, even if you have studied it explicitly before. Sooner or later, you need this implicit knowledge, which is what will give you fluency in the language. Okay, okay, okay, perfect. And a bit of the. First, isn't this type of method also incompatible with using a slightly more traditional approach? Because, after all, as adults, we also have the ability to, for example, learn grammar with structures from a slightly more traditional approach, or do you advocate for only comprehensible input at first, without talking about structures, without explaining what a preposition is? I'm curious to know how it works. Well, what we recommend is that if content like ours exists, if you have content for all levels, even perhaps I will explain to you later how it works. You asked me the question of how it applies to each level, right? But if there is content to start from scratch, that with visual information and so on, you can already start making those connections, connecting certain words with their meaning. We do recommend using only input, because that avoids problems with forming connections with your mother tongue or simply mistakes that people make, creating their own internal theories about how the language works or what certain words mean. That's why people have problems with false friends and so on, right? So yes, we recommend not studying grammar rules, not using translation. Grammar, later, if you are interested, you can look it up out of curiosity, right? But we do recommend using only input at first for that, to avoid things like the problems that Spanish speakers have, whether to use "ser" or "estar" or whether to use the subjunctive or not. I realized that when learning Japanese, people had problems with things that for me. They never caused me a problem, and I never understood why they confused them, when for me they had always been completely different things used in different contexts, with different meanings, but people who had studied them in class and who perhaps because they are conceptually similar, had been explained to them in the same class to explain the difference, so they wouldn't confuse them. But because they were explained to them in the same class, you have already connected them. The fact that they try to distinguish them connects them when they didn't even need to be connected. So I think yes. I think it has a certain amount of advantages. Then, in a situation where content like ours doesn't exist for a language for which there isn't yet so much comprehensible input content, then it can save you time and be an advantage to use translation tools. Yes, I don't know if grammar rules, but some kind of explicit knowledge that helps you understand the content you do have access to. It might make sense. Excellent. And before we started the interview, Pablo, I was telling you, I'm surprised you have a super committed community with the method, who share their progress online too. What do you think is the success of this? And do you think that part of the success of the method is the existence of that community where people can see the hours of comprehensible input they have reached, and keep progressing through the levels? Do you think that sense of community also helps to accelerate progress? Of course. The reason I think people are so involved is that. This project is a project based on a vision. I didn't start with the content, I didn't start by trying to make money from something specific. I started with, okay, I know there's a better way to learn languages. I'm going to try to teach people that, that concept. And let's see what they need to be able to learn this way. Dreaming Spanish, in fact, is my third project after having two previous failed projects, which were also. Trying to help people learn with comprehensible input, but in other ways that were necessary to reach the conclusion that the input doesn't exist and you have to create it. And the content has to be created. And if not, no, you can't. It's not easy to learn this way. So I think people see that. In addition to the blog, the FAQs we have, the method page, and so on. It all fits together. The reason we are creating this content, along with the roadmap of the different steps, fits quite well so they can see that it's all like a global vision. That, along with the fact that many people have tried to learn languages in other ways before, but have become frustrated, it hasn't worked for them. And with this way, it's the first time they have managed to notice that they are progressing. Finding a method or a way to learn that they don't give up on, that they can. Well, they have continued, they have continued learning and have reached the level they wanted to reach. Many to a higher level, perhaps than they thought they could reach. Then, things like the Reddit community. Then later they also started a Discord. These are unofficial, so we don't moderate them or anything, but the community realized they wanted to share that, the level they have reached, their experiences. Many people had questions about whether it really worked, if it didn't work, and so on, and that's why it has grown. And yes, as you mention that people share, the number of hours they have reached, the level they have reached, and this is quite. This comes from the school where I learned Thai, where they also set a goal of a certain number of hours, they measured progress by the number of hours. You would go to their website and you could see the number of hours you had accumulated and so on. And this fit quite well with some of the books I had read on entrepreneurship and so on, where they explain that. Well, the user or the customer or whatever, first you have to make it easy for them. If you create a restaurant, don't make the customer come to the kitchen and finish cooking the last part of the dish. I mean, you have to provide everything, as much as you can, for them to have the complete experience. And yes, especially if it's such a long process, showing them the roadmap, showing them where they are going to get to, removes a lot of doubts, removes a lot of fears that the person might have, and it's something much clearer than an offer like most, I don't know, other language learning apps, which is: come and learn something. Of course, yes. In fact, I struggle a lot with that. I am very much in line with what you are saying, and I struggle a lot with the idea that learning a language is not. And I get a bit extreme. I say, it's neither easy nor fast, nor fun. I mean, obviously, sometimes it can be, but it's a process that lasts practically a lifetime because you can always continue improving, and it's not, certainly not fast and easy. Well, it depends. It depends on the language, it depends on many factors, but it's a marathon. So, effectively, if you manage to find a method you like on a platform you like, that makes it more digestible and gives you a roadmap to navigate, then all the better. But especially when people start learning a language or have never learned a language and are offered the idea that in three months they will be able to speak Spanish, English, French, whatever, fluently. Then, of course, frustration sets in because it's like, damn, either I'm very stupid or they're ripping me off with this false promise. So I think it's very important. Fast is something we will never, ever promise. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Well, Pablo, now I would like to talk a bit more about your. You are. There is a very famous TV show in Spain. I don't know if it exists. Spaniards Around the World. You are a Spaniard around the world who has been living in Thailand for several years now, right? Yes, I came at the end of 2018. So, more than six years now. And you have started your family, you have your life there now. What part of you has remained in Spain, and what part now completely belongs to Thailand? What part of me has remained in Spain? I don't know, but since I had, a couple of years ago, I had a child, and since I had my son, I've missed friends and family more than before. Imagine that, since you have the little one. Yes, I think so. I don't know if it's also because I want him to get to know the family and so on, but I've felt like spending more time in Spain. This is quite Mediterranean. Spending a lot of time with family on Sundays, grandparents looking after the grandchild, and things like that. I don't know if in other cultures, perhaps more compared to Northern Europe and so on. In Thailand, it's also very much like that, it's very similar, so I don't see many, many differences. As for the part of me that is Thailand, well, when you spend years in a country. I also noticed it in Japan. You do notice that a part of you starts to grow, a part of you that is my Japanese self or my Thai self, right? And yes, being accustomed to the culture, to certain social norms here, like not wearing outdoor shoes in the house and things like that. But. Yes, but I don't know. My stay here has been shorter. I've integrated less. I would even say that than in Japan, despite being here longer. I know the language well, I speak fluently now and I have no problem. But I don't know if it's because of the context, because I'm working from home, not going to a school or not going to work in an office where I haven't met people. I haven't made so many local friends and so on, and yes, I don't feel so Thai. And well, Thailand, I don't know if you live in a big city. Thailand is also a place, since COVID and before, a place for digital nomads, expats. Where I imagine there is a local community and a community of expats, digital nomads, and all of that, which perhaps don't mix as much because I even see it now in Valencia, where there are many digital nomads and they have their own tribe too. Yes. Yes, yes. Yes. There are quite a few in Thailand. Also, I have had a bit of contact. Perhaps by going to events and so on, but even within that group, I haven't met people who I would say: Yes, I want to. They are my friends and I want to go out with them every week and so on. I understand. And you mentioned earlier the custom of taking off shoes, which we don't do in Spain when entering a house. Are there any other Thai customs that you now follow and would be a bit strange to do in Spain? That would be a bit strange. I mean, there are things, not necessarily from Thailand, but I remember things when I returned from Japan, like, for example, picking up a bowl of food and eating from the bowl, not having the bowl on the table, but picking it up and eating directly like that. It's something that. Yes, I don't remember if my father told me. I remember that, I remember my father calling me out when I slurped soup, making noise, and he said: Pablo, what are those manners? And I had forgotten about that. Of course, of course, because it's supposed to be impolite not to slurp directly from the plate. You have to use the spoon. And not to make noise when slurping, not to make noise when you slurp, right? Of course. In Spain, you would expect, perhaps you would blow on it. If the soup is very hot, you have to blow on it with each spoonful to make it cool enough, and you don't have to slurp it as if you were drinking hot tea or something like that. Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's very interesting. I studied Business Administration and Management, ADE, as it's called in Spain, which is the most studied degree in Spain currently, and one of my favorite subjects was International Business Management, and one of the topics studied was cultural differences. And I found it. Of course, I was very young, I had never traveled. Cultural differences and customs in business and life in different countries seemed very strange to me. I think, you have to take into account, effectively, when you go to another country. And the opposite question, Pablo, is there anything that makes you, that makes you instantly detected as a tourist while living in Thailand? Well, my face, for starters. Well, of course. There's no getting around that. I think I could have been born in Thailand and be 100% Thai, and they still wouldn't believe I was Thai. Of course. But apart from that. I could tell you, I don't know, because I do see things and I say. I don't know, I'm reminded of Japan again. But for example, being super, super quiet or. Avoiding, I don't know, more delicate conversations. Or whatever. Yes, I think it happens both in Japan and here in Thailand that it's about avoiding confrontation, not talking about problems, not discussing problems, basically, and it's something that if you know how to do it, I think, if you know how to confront problems by doing it in a way, in a way. Assertively. Yes, assertively, without necessarily implying that it's the other person's fault, but focusing on finding a solution and so on. I think it can be useful. Solving problems is a good thing, so I don't want to avoid them. Even if it's the culture, even if it's what most people in a certain country usually do, it's something that consciously I do avoid, not being, well, like people normally are in that country. I understand, I understand, I understand. And one last question, Pablo, when I lived in the UK, often the perception people in the UK had of Spain was sometimes correct, because it's also a country that is relatively close. Almost everyone has visited Spain at some point. But I wonder, in a country as far from Spain as Thailand, what is the perception of Spain and Spaniards? And yes, there are many clichés that have nothing to do with who we really are. The thing is that Thais know very little about Spain. We are completely indifferent to them. Yes, they know almost nothing. I mean, even the Japanese or the Chinese know us for one or two things. The Japanese know paella and the Sagrada Familia, the Chinese know bullfighting and that's it. In Thailand, nothing. It's just that, most Thais know nothing about Spain. How interesting. Very good. Perhaps football, if they like football. They know football. But that's it. They are football fans there. Yes, in Thailand in general, they are not, they are not very good at football, but the most followed sports I think are football and Muay Thai. But of course, Muay Thai outside of Thailand, no. In Spain, I don't think we even have it. On television. There is no, there is no type. In fact, I was going to ask you. It's a game played with a ball. I mean, it's a type of fighting. Yes, yes, Muay Thai is kickboxing. Well, excuse me, because I've seen. I don't know if you know White Lotus. The series. I've heard of it, but no. Well, it's a very famous series. In fact, I think it's the most watched series on HBO in recent times. Each season is in a different location. White Lotus is a hotel, and the first season was in Hawaii. The second season is in Italy, and the third has been in Thailand. And indeed, in one of the episodes, they go to see a fight of this type of wrestling. Yes, yes, yes, Thai. That's right. Well, yes, I know it. Well, Pablo, thank you very much for your time. Before we say goodbye, please tell us where students can find you. Well, on our YouTube channel, Dreaming Spanish, and well, there they already have a lot of videos. I think we have over a thousand videos on the channel already. My goodness! From there, they will hear us. Yes, yes, we will start calling them, we will start calling them to come to the website dreamingspanish.com, where we have all our content. It's much easier to find. You can filter by the teacher you like, the topic you like, and it's all very, very convenient. Excellent. Well, Pablo, it was a pleasure talking with you for this little while. Thank you very much. Thanks to you. Again. Thank you. And to you, student. Thank you very much as always. If you have reached the end of the episode, if you like the podcast, then recommend it to other people who study Spanish or even to your teacher, and I will wait for you here in the next episode. A big hug.