Transcription
Foreign, let's go out to Detroit Rock City, home of Eight Mile, and talk to Paul. What's up, Paul?
Hey, how's it going?
Rocking on, man. What are you up to?
Um, not a whole lot. Um, I just want to say, uh, thank you for taking my call and letting me, um, be on the show with you.
You got it, man. Thanks for trusting me and giving me a buzz. What's up?
Um, so my question is, is I've been married for 20 years, but it feels like for the last 10 years, I've been living under a rock and I've been oblivious to things that have been going on in my house with my wife, my relationship with my kids. But at the same time, it also feels like no matter what I do, I have, um, goalposts that are moving. So, um, I'll try my best, I'll do things to make everyone happy, but then it was, there was something else that I missed or something else that I didn't do, and that's causing a lot of, um, communication issues and conflicts in my household. And I'm trying to be the best person I can be. However, I keep failing short over and over and over again, to standard, um, against my wife's standard.
When you don't want to be the better person, now that way I can support her in that role. Got that. That's all. I feel like it's important to put truth on the table. Okay. Okay. Like, I, I, I'm not gonna, I don't doubt your sincerity for a second. I think you're a good man. Okay. I'm gonna start there. Okay. Um, and sometimes it's hard to say the truth about our partner is like, hey, this is actually happening, or this person is really hard to be with, or this person keeps moving the goalposts on me. Every time I think I've understood the rules of the game, the rules changed. I thought we were playing basketball, and I were playing football. And so it's important to do both.
When you say you've been living under a rock, what does that mean? That you're oblivious for a decade of what was going on in your house? What does that mean?
Yeah, so it means like, um, I know, I thought everything was, you know, fine. Um, you know, we had a good relationship. I had a good relationship with my kids. And then it turns out we had, um, miscommunications. And my wife is like, listen, our youngest one is 17. He graduates this year. After this year, I don't have to stay married to you no more. I can go out on my own. We don't have any kids holding us together. We have nothing. It's just a matter of if I want to be with you or not. And that is scaring me, especially when I know I keep coming up short.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, dude. Whoa. Do I have permission to just speak honestly and openly? Okay. Is that okay?
Yes.
So I'm gonna say some things that are gonna make you mad, and they should. But I feel like I need to say them. Is that okay?
Absolutely.
I don't know that you've been living under a rock as much as your wife has been lying to you for 10 years. Okay. I don't know that you're failing. I can't. If I, if you tell me we're playing basketball, and I show up with my short shorts and my tall socks in a basketball and I start dribbling and putting it in the net, and somebody comes with a football helmet and hits me, I'm not failing at the game of football. We're playing basketball. Okay. I don't think you're failing at some standard. It sounds like your wife doesn't want to be married to you, and she's writing out her clock, and there's nothing you can do if you're with a partner that doesn't want to be with you anymore. Okay. Is that fair? Tell me I'm wrong.
Nope. That, I, I get that. That's fair.
Who in the world would look at their spouse and say, "Ha, now that the kids are gone, now it's up to me." As opposed to, "Hey, we got one year left with knucklehead number three, and after this, you and I get to recreate this whole thing. We get to imagine a life we haven't had for 20 years, 22 years, however long old your oldest kid is." Yep. And we get to do whatever we want, whenever we want, minus college tuition payments, right? Right. And your wife chose that moment to weaponize that, that, that moment of vulnerability.
Yeah, I didn't look at it that way. I always figured, yeah, you're so beat down for so long that every time there's a problem, you immediately say, "I'm so sorry. What did I do? I'll fix it. I'll make it right." Yeah.
Absolutely. That's what I try to do. And the fact is, is she didn't want me to fix it. She wanted me just to listen and hear her. And I haven't done that. I've always went to fix it mode.
That's fair. That's fair. So I know I've made plenty of mistakes on the communication side where I didn't hear or I didn't listen well. And she did too. She didn't tell you. My wife gave me the gift about seven years ago. "Stop trying to fix my problems. I'm smarter than you. I just want you to listen to me." Will you be? My wife has said that stuff, and I didn't listen.
Okay, that's my problem. There you go. Then you're a knucklehead. But absolutely. So here we are.
Is it too late for me? Is what I, because I've been trying my hardest. I speak to a counselor. I've been listening to your podcast. I've found, um, several other podcasts. None of what I have to say, what other podcasts have to say, or what your therapist has to say matters. The only thing that matters is, can you sit across from your wife and say, "Are you interested in building the back half of our life together into something incredible, or do you want to leave?" If you tell her, "I'm all in," and she says, "I don't, I'm done. I've been dreaming of this moment for six years. I just went into a quiet phase. I just, I just locked myself in ice for six years to ride out the clock." Okay. But all these other voices, unless your wife has given you a very clear list, "Here's what I need if you want to stay married to me. Here's what I need." And by the way, you get to say what you need too. All right.
Understood. When's the last time you did that?
Um, I had a conversation with her about two weeks ago. It's like, "Okay, what do you need?" And then she laid it out. "I need to spend more quality one-on-one time with the kids, more time with her." And we started doing some of those tasks.
How's that going?
Um, I think so far they're going good. Um, I travel a lot for work. Just last night, we spent a bunch of time over on a video phone going over some, um, you know, these these cards that we got, and we had good conversations. So I think it's starting. I'm just not sure.
Could it be that you are unsure of your worth outside of your utility? I asked that in kind of a nerdy, highbrow way. I'm sorry.
Yep. Nope. Nope. Yes.
Yeah, it could definitely be. Because, you know, this is my whole world here. So how old are you?
Um, I am 42.
Okay. One of the most common. You've been married for 20 years. So one of the most common questions or conversations I have with 40-year-old men and 50-year-old men behind closed doors is, "If I'm not my answers, what am I?" And the hardest thing to reconcile is, you're wired into your nervous system, is men are only as valuable as the crap they can do, period. And I reject that wholeheartedly because it's killing a generation of men. Is there a set of skills that a man needs to learn? One thousand percent, no question about it. And does a man have more value than just the tasks you can check off the list? Yes. And it sounds like what your wife is trying to tell you is, in all of your performing and all of your trying to get it right, it's like it's like an actor looking for a script. And she's like, "I don't want you to be Shakespeare. I just want you." Does that make sense?
Yeah, that makes sense.
And so I think when you say, "What, what do you need?" I think it'd be fair to come back and say, "Hey, I've been thinking, the best way I can show up for you all and give you full presence, exhale real big, is to know I've got value too." And so I'm gonna trust you that if you want my advice, if you want me to give you like an answer or to look up directions or something like that, or look up the mortgage rates or the tax code, if you want that, that you'll be very clear and ask me for it. And what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna release myself from that responsibility because you're brilliant, and you're my wife, and I trust you to ask for it. And I'm gonna practice just showing up to listen because we're friends.
Okay. I guess that's where I've been failing in the past.
Stop, dude. If I showed up to a job to fix a house and I opened my tool bag and all I have is a hammer, and all they have to hang the drywall with is screws, and so I do this job with hammering screws through drywall, it will be loose and not straight. But I say, "I did a great job." No. Can I say, "I did the best job with the tool I had?" Yes. Did I fail? No. In fact, I may have accomplished something pretty significant. I hung drywall with a hammer. Okay. That's pretty dang impressive. I'm not a failure. What I do need, though, is new tools and new training. And I'm probably gonna have to redo that garage. But I did a pretty impressive job with a hammer. You, my friend, have to stop referring to yourself as a failure every time you don't get something right.
I guess that's extremely hard to do because I've been saying that for so long.
I know. Rather than feeling it, that for so long now. And you can't possibly expect somebody else to love you and to fully plug into you if you hate you. There's nothing for them to plug into. Okay? You're an outlet that with no electricity. You have to love yourself enough to go to the gym. I love myself so much that I'm going to be a good steward of this 42-year-old body. I love myself enough that I'm going to get a full night's sleep so I can show up for my kids one-on-one, plugged in. I'm gonna close my stupid laptop when I'm at home. Turn my dumb phone off when I'm at home. And if I, I don't have a boss that doesn't believe in home time, I'm gonna quit my job. I'm gonna make it a. Over the next 365 days, I'm going to begin to turn the ship and get through something new because my family's not worth losing all that.
Exactly. 100%. I agree with that. Yes. But what we're doing here is, we're not a failure, dude. You have just been building a house with only a hammer. It's pretty impressive. I don't know how you managed to saw all that wood with a hammer. You figured it out. It looks terrible, but you did it, right? Okay. Yes. Yep. Make it a commitment today. Make it a commitment today. Tell your kids. This will be a fun, a fun way to connect with your kids.
How old are your kids?
Um, I have two 23-year-olds, a 20-year-old, and a 17-year-old.
Awesome. How much do you make a year? What's your annual take home?
Um, over a hundred thousand a year.
Great. This is gonna be a fun game. I want you to tell all of your kids in a phone message, "Hey guys, I'm realizing that I talk to myself worse than I would ever let anybody talk to somebody else. And because I think have thought so little of myself for so long, it's rubbed off on all you guys, and I'm sorry for that. From this day forward, to my 22 and 23-year-old kids, my older kids, I'm going to send you a check for a hundred dollars every time you catch me saying, 'I was dumb,' or 'I'm stupid,' or 'I failed,' or 'I screwed up.' To my two younger kids, I'm gonna send you a check, I'm gonna give you cash, fifty dollars, and come up with something special between you and your wife." And they will smile, and they get to catch them. They get to be a part of their dad reimagining his relationship with himself. And it's gonna cost you a couple hundred bucks, and you're gonna quit real quick. Okay?
So it's a hundred dollars to for my older kids for any time I say I was a failure, and fifty dollars to my youngest anytime somebody says something crappy about their dad, okay, that happens to be their dad, right?
And sit down with your wife and say, "I realize I thought so little of myself for so long, I didn't think I was worth you loving me. And I thought so little of myself for so long, I thought the only value I would bring to our kids is a paycheck that would direct deposit. And I'm just gonna work on the road and get out of the way so y'all can live a great life because I kind of suck." And I want you to tell your wife you're sorry for thinking so little of the man she married. Okay? And tell her that you're going to commit to reimagining your relationship with Paul. And that's gonna be twofold. One of that is going to be standing in front of the mirror, and you're gonna embarrass the crap out of yourself, but you'll be alone, and putting a fist in your chest and looking at the mirror and saying the words, "I love this guy," 10 times in the morning and 10 times at night. "I love this guy." And when you say it, you're gonna feel your your shoulders clinch up around your neck, and then you're gonna consciously drop them and say, "I love this guy." And you're not just gonna bark mantras like Instagram would tell you. You're also gonna go to the gym. You're also gonna be doing that for the last month. Yes. Good. And you're gonna get a group of men to hang out with. And if your wife wants to go see a counselor, you're gonna go with her to see a counselor. In fact, you may ask, "Hey, would you go to see a counselor with me?"
Yep. Yep. Yep. See what I'm saying? You're gonna start not just spouting out mantras. You're gonna start with a whole bunch of tiny little wins in route to becoming a guy that you respect. You get what I'm saying? It's both things.
Yes, I get what you're saying. Absolutely.
Um, what about when I do fail at a task or something of that nature? Okay. I do all the time. Did you know this very show, we had to reshoot the intro because I screwed it up. That's unfortunate. I have a top five podcast in health and fitness in the world, and I screwed up the intro because I was just blabbing on about something that I thought was funny, and Kelly looked at me and she was like, "That's clearly not funny at all." And then I tried to get out of it, and I just made it worse, and then I started babbling. That's what I do for a living. I fail every day. Yesterday, I put my seven-year-old daughter's face in my hands and I said, "I'm sorry. I did this wrong." And she doesn't even, she didn't even say, "I forgive you." I didn't say I was wrong for her forgiveness. I didn't say I was wrong for some sort of approval stamp from her. I said I was wrong because I was wrong. I fail every day, Paul. Every day.
Okay. It's part of being human. The test of a man, the test of a woman too, but in this case, I'm just talking to a man. So the test of a man in this moment is, are you gonna get back up? Are you gonna own your mistakes and you're gonna go make them right? And the other person you wronged, they get a say into how you make things right. Okay? And then you go to the mirror and you put your fist in your chest and you say, "I love this guy." And then you go do the next right thing.
I guess I'm just afraid when I do go to ask that question, is what if the answer is no? I don't want to be with you in a year. The way to guarantee that is to isolate yourself and not ask that question and try to sing and dance your way to your wife's approval. Okay? Maybe you take her out to breakfast and you say, "Hey, um, I've tried to love you through my insights and wisdom and knowledge, and I've tried to love you through my bank account. I try to love you through making sure you had all your needs met."
And that's left you feeling isolated and cold. I'm going to try to love you by being honest with you, by being vulnerable with you, by telling you what I need, what I'm scared of. I'm gonna practice because I've never done this before. And so I'll ask you to be gentle with me and be kind to me as I'm figuring this out. And kids, when you catch your old man talking bad about himself, I'm gonna pay you, honey. If you catch me talking bad about your husband, will you call me on it like you would a stranger? And don't try to do this on your own. Your wife sounds like she's giving you a road map. Follow the road map. And she needs a road map too. She's told you how to love you. I think it's fair for you to say, "Here's how I need to be loved in this new marriage we're building." Call anytime, my brother. Thank you so, so much for trusting me and for being vulnerable. I'm proud of you. Hang on the line. I'm gonna send you two copies to building a non-anxious life. I want you and your wife to both read them. You know, I can build a road map together on how to build a less anxious house. And in so doing, I'm confident you're going to be able to find some things that y'all can talk about together. It's gonna bring up some new needs and new wants that y'all can do together. I'm proud of you, man. Thanks for the call.