Transcription
Those would lead to an impeachment without question and a vote. It's very hard. I can't imagine Donald resigning. His ego would not allow that. But he can be the end of his presidency. Absolutely without question. Uh it's the one thing I just don't believe Trump can survive politically.
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Hi, I'm Fergus Mcy and welcome to the Trump Report on Times Radio. A reminder, you can watch us every day, Monday through Friday, on our YouTube channel, and you can also listen and follow the show wherever you get your podcasts. Joining me today once again is David K. Johnston, Pulitzer Prizewinning journalist. David, we always enjoy talking to you on the show. How are you?
>> Well, thank you for having me. I'm doing great.
>> There is only one place to start today, and that is with Donald Trump being in the UK for his unprecedented second state visit. He's had a very busy schedule today. I think as we're talking, he's currently just had lunch with Charles and Camila. Yeah. As he was touching down last night, images of him and the late convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein were projected onto the side of Windsor Castle. He's never officially been accused of any wrongdoing uh in terms of relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. Now, when this state visit was agreed back in February in the Oval Office, I at least on this side of the pond, it was met with such fanfare by the British press. You know, some people were saying it was a master stoke by Karma. Now, it's come less than a week for our US viewers after um our US ambassador, former US ambassador Peter Manderson was sacked over his own relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. There's almost sort of too much of an unfortunate irony that after this was agreed, it's all sort of happening around this visit.
>> Well, there's going to be more because there were a number of prominent wealthy men involved. Not all the men who knew Jeffrey Epstein and flew on his plane with him uh were involved with underage girls. Let's be clear about that. But it's also very clear from court filings in the United States and other documents that there were a number of men who were and one of the things I've been pushing for in the US is let's go after the financial records. If Jeffrey Epstein was really this magical Wall Street genius and I think that it's not possible then there would be trading records from the investments he made on behalf of his clients. There would be monthly statements to them. There would be distributions. But if it was an extortion racket in which he got men into compromising positions and then extracted money from them, then we wouldn't have those kinds of financial records. Uh there's a lot more to this story. It's far from over. And as you've seen, the British royal family has really distanced itself from Prince Andrew. our prime minister Kama and Donald Trump, they are actually set to speak to the press together tomorrow from checkers and you know they might not want to both of them considering sort of how much this story is following them round but they are most likely going to have to field questions from the British press about Jeffrey Epsteity.
>> Well, we've seen again and again that actually British reporters at the White House have asked better questions than a lot of American journalists. Um, I've commented about this in some of my writings that much better questions and I I hope they do get tough questions not just about the Epstein matter which I think is vitally important but also about other issues uh the defense of Ukraine from the Russian invasion uh the ongoing what the UN one of the UN organizations now says is genocide in Gaza. uh the decision by the US to sack huge numbers of very deeply experienced and highly regarded under both Republican and Democratic presidents, national security officials. Uh all of those are issues that are of vital importance to the United States and the United Kingdom. And then of course there's that little matter of Donald Trump claiming the power to impose tariffs which the American Constitution something I teach um uh the American Constitution only grants as a power to the Congress. The president has no such power.
>> You said that um you found British reporters to find answer better ask better questions uh in the Oval Office. Do you think we'll see the president's approach to the press be slightly different in the UK than when he's back home then?
>> Well, that's one of the big mysteries in my mind about what's about to happen. Yesterday, uh Jonathan Carl, a national TV reporter, asked Trump a question. And Donald responded by saying, you know, you're a terrible person and we should go after you and and you're disreputable and by the way, I got $16 million from your employer. Uh Donald is running an extortion racket through the White House. He is clearly selling pardons. He's pardoned the biggest enabler of money laundering for drug traffickers, the guy who ran Silk Road. He's pardoned a number of sexual predators, people convicted of those crimes. Uh a number of major drug dealers, even as he claims the right to murder people on the high seas who he believes uh have boats with drugs in them. the proper thing to do, by the way, and that is you interdict the boat, you get the evidence, you arrest these people, and you try it.
>> And you touched on that a little bit earlier. Um, Karma has been under, you know, intense pressure over the Peter Manderson issue, which I've already raised, but he said earlier this week that he won't resign. I know the last time you were on this show that you said Trump would resign if the Epstein files checked out. I just wanted to push back on that slightly because I think you know kind of everything we publicly know about Donald Trump suggests the opposite. You know, he never
>> Well, I I don't think he'll resign. I I think what I said I hope what I said was that he will have he'll be out of office because let's assume that there are as one of the victims said yesterday videotapes and a and still images. Those would lead to an impeachment without question and a vote. It's very heart I can't imagine Donald resigning. His ego would not allow that. But he can be the end of his presidency. Absolutely without question. Uh it's the one thing I just don't believe Trump can survive politically.
>> Well, while this is all happening, of course, uh last night the Republican controlled House Committee did release uh what appears to be Jeffrey Epste's contact book and another page of his birthday book. They say they're going to push for more disclosures. We've kind of had this drip feed of information over the last sort of few weeks and months. Eventually, do you see it getting to a point where the floodgates open in terms of information?
>> Yes. And right now, what you're seeing is bringing in irrelevant witnesses like Bill Barr, who was Trump's attorney general and who would know little to nothing about this case. Uh providing documents, many of which are already in the public record. But as these little drips come out, they enable further news stories that keep the story alive. Uh that's the crucial element here is that various things have to happen to keep the story alive. And one of the reasons I've been pushing in the US for the financial records is that's another way to keep the files alive. What Congress isn't doing is bringing in the young women who have lawyers uh whose lawyers have said we want this to be put out in the public record. They haven't put them under oath and asked them to testify. Instead, they're going to sideways witnesses. And that's because I think it's very clear that Congressman Comr of Kentucky, the chairman of the relevant House Oversight Committee, is trying to show that he's doing something and at the same time protect Donald Trump.
>> But do you see that changing?
>> Yes. If we keep the story alive, as long as that story stays alive, it will lead eventually to disclosure of what's needed. And the Justice Department has absolute authority to release all of these records. They do not need the approval of a court or anything else. Donald Trump when he ran for office said, "We're going to release all the records." Uh his attorney general, the utterly corrupt Pam Bondi, said, "I have the list of the client list right on my desk." Uh which they are now trying to interpret as there's like a list of names like you'd make for a shopping list. That's not how a list like that works. A list would be who is where on what occasion at the various properties. And we know that when they uh uh federal government raided the five Epstein properties that they obtained many computer discs that you would store uh video and still images on. So why don't we see those? And the only obvious answer is because they would be very damning to Donald Trump. So, his administration is trying to withhold them. They may not be the only source of that information. The Trump estate, the lawyers there, I'm sorry, not Trump, the Epstein estate, the lawyers there were asked for the birthday book. They produced it. They have not been brought in and asked for. What else do you have in your inventory of documents?
We'll move on slightly back to the state visit now because uh I know I know you've written you wrote a biography of Donald Trump at one point. Uh he is the first US president in history to receive more than one state visit to the UK. He's been very quick in the last 48 hours to say you know how much he loves the UK. He said it's a very special place. It warms my heart. What will Donald Trump the man be feeling right now receiving all this pageantry?
Well, one of the keys to understanding Donald, who I've covered now for more than 37 years and spent lots of time with him, hundreds of hours with him, is that Donald has this desperate emptiness inside. He's a hollow vessel and he needs approval. So, Kim Jong-un, you know, a murderous dictator who kills members of his own family, says nice things to him, and Donald's response is, "We're in love." He wants the approval of people whom he looks up to in some fashion and wants to be treated as equals. So King Charles and by the way remember that just a few months ago uh the White House at three different websites the White House posted an image of Donald Trump with a British royal crown on his head. In the US, there is nothing I can think of that would be more uh secularly blasphemous than exactly that. And we've had big no kings rallies in the US. And since February 26th, because of a statement Donald made on that date, I've been calling him dictator Donald. And he's trying to consolidate power. He wants and he argues that I can do anything I want. That's not true. The US Constitution doesn't say that. But that's his view. He believes in absolute dictatorial power. The threats against news organizations and particular journalists, the 15 billion dollar uh lawsuit just filed against the New York Times over reporting that is so carefully spot-on accurate, every word of which I scrutinized looking for some kind of error and there wasn't any, is an example of his effort to intimidate. And essentially we are in a period now of menacing and murder. Menacing news organizations and others who might stand up to him and the two incidents so far that we know of of murdering people on the high seas.
>> I'm glad you mentioned that. So let's get into that. Like Donald Trump is no stranger to a lawsuit. And as you say, he's now suing the New York Times for 15 billion dollars for what he says is being a mouthpiece for the Democrats. Uh the New York Times said that the legal challenge lacks any legitimate legal claims and instead is an attempt to stifle and discourage independent reporting. Uh yeah. So I mean why as why is he at war with the press and does he have any case here?
>> Well, Donald has a long history of complaining about the press. You know, he tried repeatedly to get me fired. He hired great lawyers to come after me. Really, really quality lawyers. And every time Donald would call me at home because he doesn't have the the spine to say this to your face. He did it once, but every other time on the phone, you he would say, you know, I'm gonna sue you. I'm gonna see your kids out on the streets and I'm going to ruin you. And I would just calmly say, well, Donald, if you think you have a case, you should file it. But the first time I said that, I said to him, it will be interesting when I get to question you under oath. And the case against the New York Times will go away when Donald Trump gets noticed that he has to sit for a deposition. And the US Supreme Court has held in the Bill Clinton cases that he US president is not immune from civil litigation um and he will have to sit for a deposition and that's when the case will start to go away.
>> Are legal battles just part of his strategy though? You know, yeah, we've talked about the New York Times as the Wall Street Journal one. The tariffs are currently with the Supreme Court. I think I've got here that the uh lawfare media website currently estimates there are 350 active cases that are currently challenging the Trump administration. This is part of an overall strategy, right?
>> Yeah. Donald has personally been involved in over 5,000 lawsuits over his lifetime. Not always as the person who's suing, but often. And uh the Trumps are one of a growing phenomena in the world, white collar crime families. Uh the traditional way we think of crime families is gangs like the mafia who kill you, break legs, sm burn your business down if you don't do what they want. White collar crime families take advantage of the weakness of white collar crime laws, especially in the US. They lie to people. They break promises. They don't uh pay people when they're supposed to. Uh and that's been a Trump strategy from day one. and he continues to go to this basic strategy of his uh hoping to intimidate people. Uh intimidation is not going to work with the New York Times. It worked with two of the major American television networks because they're subject as owners of broadcast stations to regulation by the federal administration. Both needed to get approval of deals at the time, major deal, sales, and so they submitted so that they could complete their deals. We've seen this in the past. The tobacco industry did it to CBS 30 some years ago. Uh held up u change of ownership with litigation until they got what they wanted. And Trump will continue to do this. He has one other big benefit because the attorney general is a complete Trump loyalist. Uh he has no fear of prosecution for anything he might do, including ordering uh people to be killed on the high seas.
Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that. I think it was uh Paramount Global around a CBS interview. I think they settled for 13.5 million pounds. Um we know with the Wall Street Journal, you know, they've stood far stood by their reporting. Are you saying, you know, there's no pressure for the New York Times to settle either?
>> Well, the last time that Trump said he was going to sue the New York Times, David McGra, the newsroom council, who we know very well, uh wrote a letter that just sort of mocked them. And what happened? the case got dismissed. There is no case I mean if you actually read Trump's complaint and I'm not a lawyer, but I've been a professor of law since 2009. It's laughable. I I mean I'm not going to take time in my students to teach it, but if I did, we'd spend two or three classroom sessions just going through how laughable this is and the lack of any legal basis. This is merely intended to be intimidation. He doesn't have a lever over the New York Times company. It does not own broadcast stations except WQXR, a uh a small New York Cityonly FM station that plays classical music and does fancy arts reporting. Um so he doesn't have a lever on them.
>> So are any of these we I mentioned that is this part of his strategy besides perhaps the you know the Supreme Court tariff one we're expecting a ruling maybe by the end of the year. Are any of these current cases a real and present threat to the president?
>> Well, Trump's been losing roughly 96% of the cases at district court or federal trial court level. He's overwhelmingly lost at the federal appellet court. But the US Supreme Court has been finding ways to help him. Uh, one of them is, well, you fired somebody. you seem to fire them completely against the rules, but we're going to let the firing stand till the litigation is over. The past practice and the usual practice would be we're going to reinstate that individual and um if at the end of the day they're gone, then that will happen after the litigation. So they're taking the president's side through legal tactics rather than substance. In the tariff cases where the US constitution is very clear and remember here in the US we live under the in the second American republic. You know the French are in the fifth republic. The Nazis called their regime the third right. The first American republic failed after seven years because it had no power to tax. That's the reason we got the US constitution was so we could be taxed. we could tax ourselves through our Congress. And that power as well as the power to wage war rests solely solely with Congress. So Donald Trump has no legal authority except a very tiny little brief exception that he has not used to impose tariffs. And it's hard to imagine how the majority of the Supreme Court could go along with taking away from Congress a core power. In fact, the core power. It is the very first power the US Constitution grants to Congress and tariffs of course are taxes.
We'll just end then uh with a word I mentioned earlier which is pageantry. Uh I've seen that word written so many times today to describe the current state visit. I mean all the raw stops have been pulled out. We kind of know Karma strategy. It seems the UK government is really seeking to stay on Donald Trump's good side. What are the UK getting out of this relationship in return?
Well, maintaining the ability to talk to Trump and to try to get him to understand that if you don't stop Putin, we're already seeing with the drones flying over Poland, acts of war, arguably that, as I've said on Times Radio repeatedly, uh, Vladimir Putin is on the record going back more than 25 years that he wants to go back and put together the old Soviet Empire. He already has taken over Georgia and Ceschna and the relatives I have by marriage who live in former Iron Curtain countries you know they very clear if if Putin isn't stopped the Russian tanks will come it's just a matter of time and so Kirst's needle he has to thread is to not get Donald Trump to turn on him and at the same time to try and persuade Trump you're being played by Putin uh In the meeting in Beijing, uh Putin, Modi, and Xi all went out of their way to humiliate you over that limousine ride in Alaska. And somehow you got to get Trump to recognize those are not his friends and at the same time not make Starmmer and the UK an enemy of Donald Trump. That is a very very difficult task. And I hope that Starmer has the most remarkably sophisticated diplomats advising him on on little things like pauses and commas and short sentences.
>> Again, yeah, you know, you know Donald Trump quite well. Is that the only way to deal with him? How Kristama is we kind of see Emanuel Macarron and Georgia Maloney maybe in slightly different ways, but he's cozying up to him. the only way to do it.
>> Well, when they all came to the White House right after the Alaska meeting, uh, these foreign leaders turned out, I actually thought they brilliantly handled it. I wondered how much communication they'd had among each other beforehand, but all of them understood the problem was that Vladimir Putin was seducing politically Donald Trump and they had to put a wedge in here somehow and and support Silinski. So, you know, when Donald says, "We spent $350 billion helping Ukraine," not true. About a third of that, um, and the UK and the EU has spent more than the United States, they didn't throw that in his face because that's not useful. Donald doesn't understand the subtlety of diplomacy. These people do. And so, how do you get someone who is a bull in a china shop to not knock over all the Waterford crystal? Uh, that's that's the key task here. And it'll be interesting if we find out from the people who cover the royals how um King Charles uh treated uh Trump and how how much he worked to make sure that uh what happened with Trump did not enrage him. That's the thing you got to be careful of. And with Trump's deteriorating health, it's very clear that his health is is seriously deteriorating. Um, it's not uncommon for people with the kind of medical conditions Trump appears to have to have anger issues, uh, to, and Donald already had those, so they can be enhanced. So, it's going to be a very delicate dance, but it's important to keep talking to him, to not shut him off, and certainly not to turn him into an enemy of either the United Kingdom or the EU.
>> Well, Times Radio will be watching it all closely for the next 24 hours, I'm sure. But for now, David K. Johnston, thank you so much for joining us on the Trump Report.
>> Thank you, Fergus.