From $0 to $1,000,000 in 3 Months Selling on TikTok Shop

Believe it or not, you probably will believe it, but this morning I woke up, walked out of my bedroom, looked on my counter, and this was actually on my counter from my girlfriend, Evil Goods baby. So she, she shops on TikTok 100%. And I thought that was the most crazy synchronicity from the universe that we had this podcast planned, never mentioned it to her, never told her, she has no idea who you are. It was holy [ __ ]! So I asked her how she found that. She said it's a really trendy product; it's like proven to be like the best face face care, beating all the other Face Care routines, and she saw it on social media. She looked at the comments, and that's what everybody recommended. And so pretty crazy that I have one of the founders.

Right-o, let's put it like this. Let's put it like this: like the fastest way to create like more generational internet wealth in today's world, there's like a window here where TikTok equates to your first-time buyers, Amazon equals your repeat buyers, and private equity will pay you 20x however many repeat buyers you have. And that formula, in a nutshell, is creating Enterprise Value with like CPG Brands—I mean, physical product Brands. It's a level that I just like haven't seen um, ever, you know, since I've been on the internet, of like we, we launched that three months ago, and in month three we did a million dollars in very profitable Revenue. You know, and we're like, I mean, when you're when you do a million bucks month three, you're pouring it all back into inventory and whatnot, but we're talking 30-40% margin on a company that is brand new, and that's the virality of TikTok. It's the short-form Discovery, and it's sad none of people are like aware of this because everyone on the internet's like, "This is how you make money, follow me to make money," D, and we're going to look back at this window is like, "Oh, this is Amazon FBA again." In 2024, I started Amazon in in 2013, back before anyone was talking about it, like you could just really blow [ __ ] up with, you know, very little money, MH. And we're getting that again.

So and so you mentioned two things: you have to get eyeballs and you have to get repeat buyers. I think a lot of people look past the repeat buyers, but let's start with eyeballs. This is not something that you started with a big audience or you pushed through a YouTube or personal brand or whatever; this is something that you started organically, and then you just went out and did the hard work. But TikTok Shop has made it quite easy, it seems. And so could you just give me a high level of, you launched that 90 days ago, what was the initial marketing plan, and how did you action it? So we have a Playbook with TikTok. You don't need to spend money on ads; that algorithm is like Discovery based. All right, so people think of social media like Instagram, YouTube; you're Building your follower account, you're building your subscriber account. TikTok, they don't care if you have 2-300,000 followers on TikTok and you don't post for a while; the account's basically dead. You can have a brand new account on TikTok, post a video, and get 10 million views like that; that happens all the time. So our strategy is really manipulating that. This actually started on one of your original interviews, Oliver, Broca Tabs chocolate; this was kind of the pioneer of the strategy where he goes, "Hold on, I can get 20 kids to make Tabs chocolate accounts. It doesn't matter if it's leading to any specific brand page; these kids are just going to post a piece of content optimized for TikTok and sales every single day. And if 20 of them make a video and two of them go viral, this pays for itself a million times over." And so that, in a nutshell, is the strategy. We have 40-50 different creators that are educat on the brand, like you know, we give them a brief; they know how to make content that works in the algorithm, and we set them loose. That's like the the basis of our Playbook. I still have like a whole, you know, Amazon background where what happens if you're going viral on TikTok, you're selling in retail, you're selling on Amazon, people are coming to your website, they're Googling you. TikTok is changing the world in terms of Discovery; like that is where people are now going to find new ideas. It's not just physical products; like when we go to a restaurant, you know, in a in a different city, my wife looks up TikTok; she wants to see it. And that's how they operate in Asia, and that's what's happening here, and we're just fortunate to be at the Forefront of it on the brand side.

Interesting. Okay, so I guess I really, is it cool if we go through like why you cho—what you were looking for when you chose this product? Cuz like I had never heard the word beef tallow before; like that sounds like such a strange word, strange concept, foreign to me. And so why did you choose the product that you chose in the first place? So that was that was all my, my partner Jake; he's very interested in like holistic wellness and kind of Jake Tran, you know, he makes videos on what scams are and and uh, got kind of down the rabbit hole of like how bad skincare stuff is, and turns out just natural beef tallow is like a really good hydrating, repairing alternative. And so that was kind of his, his Genesis. Now there's two ways to think about like if we're talking about launching a brand from scratch and what products to go after and what ideas to to build with: you can find something that has like some viral Tailwinds, or in my opinion with this era, you can popularize near anything from from scratch. And that sounds like outlandish, especially like the Drop Shipping world, right? You're supposed to match demand to to what's there, but if you think about it, so many ideas have blown up because they purely have enough reach; like even even political ideas, if you say something enough, it eventually becomes true. And so you've seen Brands over the years buy that same concept, right? You pay enough celebrities, Kim Kardashian eats the weight loss gummies, and all of a sudden those work, right? It cost the brand $34 million, but because it was seen by so many people, it becomes truth. And so what happened with with TikTok, if you're getting if you're finding a way to go viral, something like beef tallow, because we were kind of the first to to pop off, it was starting to Trend up on Amazon, but we probably have gotten 100 plus million views in the last 30 days on TikTok, really just by by knowing that algorithm. So we've kind of taken it to a whole another level of of like what's true, what what is—that's where the drop shippers go, "Oh, this beef tallow thing is like really interesting," but because of the ability to get so many eyeballs with not a lot of dollars, that's that's the magic, right? Like if if I had $10 million, I could accomplish the same thing by just running Meta unprofitably over and over and banking on retention, but we're profitable on the front end so we can reinvest and get more views and shape our own narrative. Does that make sense?

Yeah, makes total sense. So you didn't, so Jake just happened to have been in the space and like kind of figured this out through making content and like kind of discovered it silently, or did you see like you said it was trending up on Amazon first? Is that like your proof of concept or like what made you, cuz your experience, you've sold a supplement company for $30 plus million do in your early 20s, so what like what made you want to get involved in that basically? Well, so so my my whole thing right now, I want to invest in good ideas and good Brands, like I'm I'm building a couple from scratch, and I realized it's so much better when you have an experienced operator who does a lot of the leg work, and I can write a check and and bring our TikTok system. So the whole story with Jake, you know, I mean, he's a ferocious entrepreneur; he launched a new Channel, Evil Food Supply, and you know, he's a YouTube Wiz; he realizes the CPMs and that are not profitable like business. And so he goes, "What what can I do to maximize the value of this channel, Rob? I think it's a good idea to do a product, right? I'm talking about all the stuff wrong in the CPG world." And so you know, he jumps in, Million Dollar Brand Club, kind of all my framework goes through the Amazon stuff; he's real, like he's one of those like super autist genius guys that'll that'll pour in and and deep dive, and uh, that's where he kind of side, he goes, "Hey, you know, in this health space, beef tallow is trending up; it looks like it might be at the Forefront of like a good run; I think I should do this." And so he gets to work developing it, and then kind of we didn't partner till he was damn near ready to launch; like we didn't officially invest; I was kind of proofing his stuff and and going over all of it, but that's kind of kind of where it came to be.

Okay, cool. So once you have this product, you invested, so then you're now your main goal to Market it is to find like 40 TikTok creators, and this is kind of your specialty. Yeah, yeah. We've been really fortunate; Oliver's roommate, his name is Jimmy Farley; he's my business partner on all of this stuff. Ah, okay. I see, I see, I see. So that's kind of where this all come—I'm I'm the old guy; like I'm still the Amazon vet, and I know all this world, but when it comes to like TikTok native stuff, it is that generation. Jimmy's 22; he lived with Oliver; he was running like the agency side of their business while Oliver was building the brand. And right after you did that interview, I went to Arizona and uh, did one with Oliver; Jimmy got dinner with me; he's like, "I could run this for you," and I go, "Oh, okay, all right, that's a good idea." Mhm. And so he had like 10 creators, and you know, he charges me nothing; like he he's young kid, probably making 10-15 grand a month at the time, and he's like, "Just give me a shot." I'm like, "Yeah, like whatever," you know, and he like makes it this big thing; I'm like, "No literate bu—it's like 10 grand, like just give it a shot," you know. And uh, long story short, he puts everything into this, and it doesn't go well for like a month, and then like five, six weeks in, Creator start going viral, and my coffee brand, uh, Top Shelf, the next supplement brand I have, goes from like 150 grand a month to like 800 grand in like, you know, two months. Wow. And this thing just goes explosive. And then he sits back; he goes, "Hold on, to scale this, I need more creators; there's only like 10 or 15 creators." And so he ends up launching a program called Creators Corner, which is like, you know, I'm I'm partnered with that; like it's all kind of one big family where he now trains creators to make content for Brands and obviously get paid commissions, and um, like it's it's a life-changing thing. And so that's our I guess flywheel or like kind of our our secret sauce; we have the the brand side, and then we have the top Creator Talent um that comes from from Jimmy.

Gotcha. And then what do you, what's like the pay structure for those creators if they're working with the brand? A flat monthly rate or no? So so now with TikTok Shop, it's it's they usually get like some sort of retainer, but then they get huge commissions too. So I've had kids like, when we launched our cologne, Love Bombed, I had one Creator make like $110,000 in a month; he was a waiter three months ago. And so just to see kind of the—that's what I said like when you talk about this make money online stuff, it's like it used to be a win if someone started their copywriting course and made like three grand, you know, like replace their income. And now we genuinely have, you know, I mean, brand owners creating millions of dollars in in Enterprise Value, and we have, you know, young creators who are who are great kids dabbling, like finding themselves in this internet money world making—I mean, we have like probably seven or eight kids that are made six figures in a month with like no—I've had two people that also DM'd me from that podcast, and they just implemented the same system, and they're all eight-figure brands at this point. That's such a big number; like that's not like a little—no, the cat's out of the bag, like this this is the thing now. Like if I could go back and shoot Oliver—I shouldn't say anything crazy, but you know, if I could go back and cancel your guys' podcast and keep all of this like internally, we we would probably be a lot closer to a billion, like like actually like a billion than we are um, because now like all the you know, I'm tapped in in this world; like I got friends, Physicians Choice, you know, multiple nine-fig brand; like they're all in; they're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on this, and what it's done is it's it's just that natural competitive cycle, like back when I started on Amazon, it was it was easy because no one was doing it; ads were cheap; you know, the ability to rank was cheap, and then all of a sudden more people pour in; it doesn't like go away; it just gets incrementally harder. And so we're at the beginning stages of that with TikTok; like it's still mind-blowing to me. You you said it yourself; like people on YouTube aren't searching TikTok Shop; like it's still not in everyone's face, but the money being made is stupid. You just mentioned that you had like four different of these Brands like this, like just now, like a repeatable process to you, and so I would love to understand how like these—I never, as someone who's in this online world, I kind of understand the marketing system, but like you have the idea, how you're choosing, how are you like literally, cuz you talked about repeat bu—and for that like the most important thing is like what the product is and that it's actually a good product. So like what are you actually looking for, like very Tang in what the product you would go all in on and then how are you actually making sure it's a good product and how are you even getting it manufactured?

Yeah, absolutely. So let's let's do a case study: Hiber Tape. This is a student of mine that I also invested in; it's mouth tape. Okay, and it's one of those products that, you know, month one he did six figures; is very cheap to start; like he started that business with a couple grand, and it should be a million dollar brand within within 12 months. When you're finding the right idea to sell or the right product, you're looking at things like there's a software called Helium 10, which pulls together all of the Amazon data; you can look at something called Magnet, which basically filters a lot—probably like YouTube—it filters how many people are searching for that versus how many products are actually being sold. Okay, and so you use something like that, and then you're starting to to see what's going on; then you can use something like, but but I like to triangulate; I don't just like to have one data point. So then we can take something like Exploding Topics, which gathers all these different internet data points. Gotcha. And will tell you ideas that are trending up. Um, Exploding Topics showing like Search terms on the internet, like actual like popular trending terms. Yep, in Industries basically. And then Helium 10 is like showing you what's—Helium 10 showing you all of the actual Amazon search data. Search data; it's like Supply demand. Exactly. And then what's Magnet doing? Or is that the same thing? That that's the specific tool within Helium 10. Gotcha. So the Magnet tool in Helium 10 is showing you how much Supply, how much demand basically. And the more demand, less Supply, that's not opportunity. Exactly. They filter the Magnet score is that. And so and then Exploding Topics is like the meta trends of what people are actually interested in right now, and you're comparing that. Ah, that's really cool. So then that's how you then keep going. Sorry. Thank you. Yeah. And so I mean, those are two really good ones; you can also start—TikTok has like Cido Data is a new software there that is showing what's selling on TikTok. And so same same deal; if you take those three points and just do your homework and kind of like what is actually out there, what are the opportunities, what are the pain points, because what's happening now with TikTok Shop is you have a lot of stuff going viral with a lot of really shitty products. And so you could see like, okay, there's four mouth tape brands on here doing well, but the reviews are horrible; what's wrong with the reviews, right? And then that's where that's all of a sudden your opportunity. So okay, so then you'll look on TikTok and see what is actually getting the views. I know Oliver's strategy was find an intrinsically viral product, so he chose like a controversial sex chocolate, but mouth tape isn't as controversial, but you know, there's a lot of interest there. And so then within the market where we have proven interest, you're looking for batter R views to find a product differentiating factor and then going all in on making that the core message of your product based on the pain points people are having with other products. Exactly, is that correct? Exactly. Okay, so that's how you're finding the product idea. Yep. Then how do you make sure it actually like, how are you going about it getting manufactured? I think Drop Shipping people lean towards it because it's just like already there; you have a product, whatever, now you just need to sell it. Yeah, but like to really ensure that you're going to have enough Supply and the product is actually like quality and good, how do you do that? So one fundamental thing: 3% rule, Virgil Abloh; you need to make something 3% better to inherently add some sort of value, and I I drove that home all day. So the mouth tape brand, my students looking at Hostage Tape, which is like the the million-pound or the you know, $20 million brand in that space, and he's going, "How can I how can I improve on this?" So obviously branding is one, and he just had the idea to make scented, scented versions of them. And so he goes out and he finds the same supplier, you know, through Alibaba and some of those other tools where you're just you're finding other people's manufacturers. Import Yeti is another one where you can see other brands' manufacturers often. So we'll often do stuff like that. Yeah, especially like in you know, when it's overseas, that's probably the the best way to do it if there's a brand you like. So you can just find a brand; you can use a tool called Import Yeti and literally find who's making it. Oh, so then you literally have to reach out to them and explain what you're looking for. Exactly. And so he reaches out to them; he's like, "Hey, can you do this, you know, with a lavender scent?" And that's when the dialogue kind of opens up; there's some back and forth; you get your samples; they ship them over, and it's not always like that quick and easy; sometimes you got to go through different manufacturers, but he found a he found a great one, and those guys ship over, you know, the the first order or excuse me, we got to get to actual branding, but his samples are great; like all of a sudden he's got a lavender mouth tape. Then The Branding component is especially important in in TikTok, and believe it or not though, we've had so much success with AI like in in getting the actual framework down. When I used to start, you know, creating Brands in 2013 with Amazon, it was all designer; it was like hosting contests; it was all these really kind of pain in the ass methods, and now all of a sudden you learn these prompts, right? And we have, you know, like a huge framework for putting that together; you can get the basis of your brand dialed with 2—graphic design you mean like for the brand? So you literally just using like DALL-E 2 and prompts to come up with like what's on the label and Midjourney? Yeah, really. And then you take then you take it to a designer cuz it can't like, not to get all your legal stuff on there, but like Evil Goods was like like that that woman on the C—that is an AI-generated image, like actually. And this is a million dollar brand in month three; that is insane. No, I mean, it's getting easier than ever, and I hate saying that because obviously there's a lot of work that goes into being successful in anything, but the fact you can generate stuff like that in a couple months with artificial intelligence, it's mind-blowing to me. To be fair, when you were back 5-10 years ago, if you wanted a graphic design mockup, you to find a human being and explain with words, and then they they had to go through like iterations, and it was probably not even—yeah. So it's a lot of—so that actually is like a huge timesaver, MH. And that's just like the concept, and now you can get it perfected by a pro, but it's all there. That's really cool actually. And so then you're just—they just have like a standardized like format like or like size, like 20 by 4. Exactly; the manufacturer is typically like on the mouth tape; it's like, "Hey, it's coming in this type of Jar here; it's called a die line; they give you the die line; the die line gets filled out by the designer." Gotcha. Wow, that's cool. I can't believe you can just literally find manufacturers from other products, and then it's just like already there, and you kind of make it a little different. Yeah, cool. Okay, so then was there anything specific with branding that like you have like a little bit of like sauce on like, is there like a—you have an eye for it? What is your like—I'm so passionate about branding; it's not even funny. I I think in today's world, like to Oliver's Point, finding a viral product is important or can be, but having viral branding is solves that too; like when you see it and it's disruptive and it's loud and it doesn't look like everything else, it is just inherently—it's the it's the visual hook, you know; it's inherently more likely to get people to stop scrolling. And so kind of thinking through that framework, I encourage people to be aggressive; I encourage people to be loud; I encourage people to draw from different Industries; like if everyone's making the same beef tallow that looks all natural and foofoo, like go to the 70s and draw Marilyn Monroe screaming, and don't be—and seriously, and don't be afraid to to push that because what's happening is the world is shifting, and you just need to play the rules of the new world; like there there's a potential scenario where websites are slowly becoming obsolete, and people are buying—which is an egregious statement—but people are going to be buying live, and they're going to be buying Visual. And so with that in mind, what do you want to be? You want to be the loudest [ __ ] brand, and we're just we're leaning into that hardcore; there's always like a counterculture always. And so how can you like predict what—not even counterculture, but more just like the like the table turns all the time constantly. So what is it? The pendulum swings. Yeah, cool. I I would say Evil Goods is like—it just—you would not expect a skin care skincare brand to be called Evil Goods; no, like it's like contradicting almost like Liquid Death or something; it's making something—billion dollar brand—making something very normal and good for you sound like intense. Yeah, it's just good—good thought process is there. And then you did uh, you did Genius, right? I had bought some of your products before, dead ass, and was that—did you do that just because it was like optimizing the thought process was productivity for entrepreneurs or and Genius was like that Association or why you choose—yeah, in in that phase of my life, I always made products for me, like like I wanted to build a—it's been like a a passion for me; I've wanted to build a lifestyle that that I want to live every day. And so Genius was just me finding the best version of myself, and as I got more into work, it was Nootropics; it was how can I maximize productivity? And believe it or not, that that trademark just wasn't taken; like I was like, "There's got to be what—to supplement smarter." I was going through names; no ChatGPT, you know, I'm sure they would have given me Genius, but Genius brand was untaken; I was like, "What a great name." So you had a trade market, like you do that first thing usually? Yeah. Okay. You at least want to—yeah, you almost always want to trademark something. What do you have to do to trademark? Is it hard? No, it's very easy; it's like you can you can—there's sites online that'll do it for you for a couple hundred bucks. Is it fast? Uh, usually the application process is fast, and then it it pens for like two, three months, so you have to wait to launch until that goes through? No, no, is—I say as long as you've checked that there's no one else with your exact name, you know, quick Google, you'll be the first one to have it. Yeah, as long as you're applied, you're good. Yeah. Okay, cool. That's so interesting. Okay, so you're really just like trying to make something really pop; it's not obvious and stand out. I'm sure there's like too subjective to really get into it. Um, so once you have the branding down, is there like a—I know I think the least sexy thing about physical products is the margins in most people's minds, so it's like—do you have like a—like how would I choose to price something? That's a good question. I always—I'm like a big premium product guy for sure, and I think you need to make—also, I say come up with the product first and then set the pricing. Yeah, and I always want you to make like two and a half times your cost of goods, like minimum; like that that is a a range that you can survive ads; you can like you can run a a profitable scalable business, and it's not a percentage because with something like cookies, 60% net, you know, net profit versus a $100 test booster, the dollar amount is dramatically Less on cookies. And so you think think about like when you're running ads, the CPC, you know, four or five bucks on a $12 product versus a $100 product is going to destroy all of your—and I learned that the hard way; I have a failed Cookie Company, you know. Gotcha. What's a test booster? Um, like like a supplement, you know, that supports testost—test that type of thing. And so um, yeah, I say two and a half times your cost of goods, but on that note, it's like if you're making the product good, and this was my eye-opening moment in the supplement world, I I come in, and there's all these products being sold for like really cheap. One of the first eye-opening moments was a a fat burner product I wanted to put together, and I go to this pharmacist; I'm like, "Hey, man, we got to make like the the best thing that actually works; you like nothing crazy, but like that actually supports weight loss; like put everything into it," and he gives me back the quote of like what the product cost to make, and my cost of goods is more than what all of the top brands are selling for, and I go, "Huh, like no wonder people say this industry is a scam; no wonder people say these products don't work." And so rather than like shut it down, I said, "Well, surely there's like a a narrative here, and there's a there's a need for this clearly, and so why don't we just price the product where it needs to be priced, come out with it anyway, and then let the market decide." And that was really the entire thesis behind Genius, and it's my philosophy to this day; I would rather see people innovate and make things better for retention, for repeat buyers, so they have a sustainable business then they would trying to be like everybody else.

So you think that people that were doing this just wanted to save as much money as possible, and from their perspective, to market the product when you're marketing something for the first time, there's really no way to tell how good the product is; it's all about the marketing, and so they choose the cheapest, quickest option. Yes, and they get rewarded for that at the beginning, but then over the long—fail. Yeah. And so you're really focused on like the actual brand building and the repeat buying, but they have to have that good experience. So how have you been able to—have you just been able to out-Market those people regardless? Or—and and that's been the beauty of direct-to-Consumer and TikTok and Amazon, right? Uh, I wouldn't have been able to do that when it was like supplements used to be the good old boys club, and it was like GNC, and it was your Distributors, and it was a very set way of doing business. And that's when I got started; like I kind of wandered into that world right as Amazon came, and all those guys were not quick to adapt, and I had the lecture of being able to do whatever I wanted and go direct-to-Consumer and honestly end up making more net net with some of it because I didn't have to play by those rules anymore. Interesting. And you look at things, and and that's just true across the board; you look at Tabs—is good one—Tab isn't a good product; I me—know it's a $30 sex track, and all of it would probably say that, right? It's gimmicky. Yeah, it's gimmicky. Yeah, and it's one that went crazy viral, and he made a ton of money, but is the retention there? Will that business still be around? Like probably not, right? Just because of of that if they don't iterate or make things better. And so that that's how I think about it; I think longer game, you make less money in the short term, but that's what ultimately like we play this to to win-win, and that's how you have to think about it.

Interesting. So you're really open about numbers; like I remember watch seeing this Instagram carousel of this product M, and you were literally talking about how much it cost, how much like what your margin was and everything. Could you break that down so I at least know the lingo and the verbiage? Oh, that one off top—can I pull up the carousel? Carousel. I would love to go through that whole Carousel this podcast because there's so much there. Uh, I mean, that's been one of my things on social; I want to be like—no one's no one's really putting it out there, and some of these—I got to be careful, you know, like I have a a partner in that business obviously, and he um, at a certain point will stop talking publicly, but it's been such a cool success story in the begin quickly, like—yeah, relatively—it was this thread, right? The 25—uh-huh—yep. So this one was doing 25k a day, 3 months old, found a winning product, sell it for 50. Yeah, so each unit is about six bucks; it might be a little bit a little bit more, like 6, 630 something like that; try to keep clean numbers on the—for sure—the tweets, keep it simple, but retails for $50; we're doing around 500 units a day; Amazon takes their their $12.40 and like gross profit every day is close to 15, 15 to 20 grand. So you're selling—so it's $6 to make them; you charge 50 for it; you're sell on 500 a day, so that's $25,000 a day, M, and then Amazon takes 15%, so that's what do you say, 12—so basically you're all in 20 bucks. Yep. Are you running ads on Amazon PC? Yes, that's gross profit, and we spend money on those creators; like that that is not net profit; that's gross profit. And so that was that one that example on Amazon. Mhm. Is TikTok Shop and are Amazon partnered, or are these people seeing the brand on TikTok organically and then just going to Amazon to search it? Like it's kind of a paired—that for now, we just launched this on TikTok Shop, and and TikTok Shop itself has like—no, they're taking 8% right now; like the numbers on TikTok are better, but you give a a bigger commission; we just decided to use our creator system and focus all on Amazon to kind of start this off, but this could go nucle in our TikTok Shop too. So I'm curious how—what's like the like nurturing sequence to make sure they get to Amazon or noted to go to Amazon; obviously that's pretty obvious, I'm sure like a lot of things now, but like is there like—I know Oliv had the reply to comments where like if you had one Creator go viral, then like reply to comment—like it was kind of like a strategic retargeting video to like send—we don't we don't do a lot of that honestly; it's been just such Discovery based, and that's where that's where it's found right now; there's a link in BIO to Amazon, um, but it's been it's been far from perfect, but when you're talking 10 million views on a video, like—yeah. So are there really any other costs? It's $6 for the product; Amazon 15% fee—are there any other like set costs other than paying the creators? No, not set; we run ads on Amazon and stuff like we we spend money a lot of places. What are Amazon ads? How does that work? Uh, it's almost all, you know, cost per click based on keyword; so if they type in like beef tallow, you would just be the first—that be $4, right? $4. And the goal—like where you make your money on Amazon is not ads; like you'll you'll hopefully break even on that or lose some money; your end goal is to be the organic number one product for beef tallow. So if you pay for the ads, you'll get purchases; good

Manager training and basically that that's what we do. Have a manager, and then the manager is kind of the one handling all of the hiring, so it's so interesting. This is like in, like, big corporate companies; they have like hundreds of course materials, like onboarding things. Like if you get hired, you have to go through two weeks of onboarding; you're just watching courses on how to do stuff. And so it's almost like we've, like, he's like democratized that as like an arm of your business where he's like just creating this recruitment engine, recruiting and training and onboarding engine, and hands it off to all of your different—that's such a cool machine.

It's been really cool because it's been one of those rare times where everyone's making a lot of money; everyone wins because he gets paid for that, for the courses, and for—the creators are getting paid, we're selling product, and they get guaranteed placement, which is basically college for a corporate job. I've seen a lot of people try to copy what Jimmy's doing—like, teach people how to be creators—and they're missing all those pieces. The education's not strong; the placement isn't guaranteed. Like it's it's it's been a—it's been quite the—I've been very impressed with them. That's very interesting though, that is like—that is like the the modern-day version of: go to college, get a degree, get a corporate job, and they'll help you do that. Like in college, they help you make a LinkedIn and then help you get a job. Now it's just: make right, make an ad on how to make money, teach them a method of making money, and then guarantee them the placement by partnering with people like you, and then you're just—skilling huge business.

I'm trying to keep as many brands flowing in it as possible, cuz it keeps getting bigger now. Right at first, it was like we had our three in-house brands, and then we couldn't create brands fast enough, and I don't want to run a million brands. And so it's like, okay, million-dollar brand club, TikTok shop, who—how can you guys get these out? And then we—we have the creators, so it's been a really—it's got to be great for deal flow for you. It's insane, like a huge private equity type or VC. It is, so we're trying to snag up as possible. Yeah, well, thanks for telling us. I actually do appreciate you sharing this because anyone who's like actually serious about the game, this is like the—I told you that's my model, and it's like I want to be the creator that actually runs this [ __ ] up in public and like does it in a way that makes sense because social media is so powerful, a personal brand is so powerful, but not many people are thinking through like the actual monetization component, like the actual like—what are you trying to—everyone's trying to sell a course and make their info money, which again, that's piece one of three that would actually matter. Yeah, and hor credits are horos—like that is where I kind of saw acquisition. Comom—I'm going, oh, okay, like I I I see the equity component with it. Yes, yes, it's smart. That's how he gets deal flow; private equity—what do they need? Deal flow. What do you need for deal flow? Entrepreneurs making like three, four million a year, so you can help them scale. Well, how are they going to choose you? Well, if I just help them go from 300 to 3 million through free content, they'll come to me. Exactly, that's a content thesis. Exactly, super important. Very cool.

Okay, so I I'm curious if—I don't know—I guess how much you would know about this if Jimmy's handling this, but I'm sure you're aware—what are like—if you had—if you got 10 creators for a brand right now, how are you like—and they're trained, let's say they already know the concept—like what are like the best practices or like content styles that you're having people make that's working for you? So honestly, it changes every like—of course, every two, three weeks, and and and where you really make a lot of money now, since it's getting a little more competitive, is when someone comes in and innovates something totally new. And again, I'm not the the young kid in this world, but I do understand it's like you need the—you need the disruption, so the hook, whatever that you know is, and then you need retention and repeat, and and that's that's pretty much it. And so that's what Jimmy does well, and and me too. Like I encourage these kids to not just copy what's working because that that'll happen too; you get one viral video for your brand, and then they all pour on it, which is great; that's like, you know, rocket fuel. But when all of a sudden there's a brand-new style—like six months ago, these kids figured out you do 11 Labs with this voice atom, and you start with that hook and like a visual of the product; it's this really deep voice with like Midjourney, you know, wild images—like if you took this product for 21 days and it was just—it was so so disruptive. So they have like pretty good—you I'm sure Jimmy has like the copywriting formula down where it's like hook, disruptor—like getting them to stop the scroll—then it's like they have like the retention optimized. But I'm curious the format that was—you're saying is an AI—an AI voice, 11 Labs AI voice generator, Journey images, and then you're just funneling like a copywriting script and then just showing over—literal AI voice. Yeah, and the AI images are flashing up, and it's really—is there—could you just give me a little more description of like what the copy is? It's like if—if it for like the beef tallow one, are you like—like do you have like—are you just showing people with acne? Like literally, are you choosing UGC creators with acne or something? Some of those work. Like one—one style that went crazy nuclear was um just slideshows. And so slideshows aren't even video; it's just, you know, like before-after. Yeah, the SE—or no, it'd be like the seven products at Walmart that can help your skin—like listicle, planting yours as one of them. Mhes—that would always be the last—available now at at Amazon. And you'd be shocked that some of those would get like—we we've had slideshows get 15 million views. Is it pictures on Instagram? Yeah, on TikTok. So it's just a TikTok, but it's a video, but it's just—no, no, it's—that's one of the modes on TikTok; it's not all video. It's a Ste—pictures on TikTok; you can do that now. Oh, I don't use TikTok. That's crazy. You're healthier for it; that's why it's like dangerous. No, no self-control over here. So they literally let you do like just Carousel, basically—very much like Instagram. Yeah, interesting. And then is it—so it's just like your whole goal is to basically get 20 creators at the same time, just like a VC—spread out the risk, let creativity. Yeah, so you're giving them a flat—basically $1,000 a month, $2,000 a month, something like—is that the right range? Uh, anywhere from literally like new ones can be $300 till we have some creators that—there's some that are really good that like you kind of got to—yeah, give them some crazy deal to—they know how much they're—yeah, once they're doing something right, so it could be anywhere from 300, maybe 3,000, 5,000 if they're like crazy good, and then they have—but they all get the affiliate link through TikTok shop directly. Yes or no? So—so two different ways to do it: like Evil Goods, we started Amazon-only campaign; top shelf, my my main brand, were like all in on TikTok shop, and TikTok shop, they paid that commission there directly. So for the Amazon-only, are they just all just paid like monthly? Pretty—pretty much. Then we'll do things like view—view bonuses; we try to set up affiliate links for like certain ones because you can loosely track that. Do they have to post every single day? Do they have to post—they're supposed to—so they're supposed to post every day; that's Jimmy's job to stay on top of them. And then how do you know when to cut them if they're not performing? Like we give everyone a month, and then if there's not—if there's not traction or there—cuz a lot of them are kids, right? And so they'll miss days. Like you can—you can tell. That's where the the manager tier that Jimmy added has been really helpful. Like would you—yeah, would you expect to be profitable in the first month from one of these accounts? Or—absolutely, yeah, absolutely. That's the magic of it. Yeah, literally most—would you—how many would you say are profitable in your first month if you had hire 10—just 10 creators? Yeah, if you did 10 with 10 creators, I'd say maybe—I'd say maybe 50, 60%. So—but you literally got a 50—like coin flip if this person be—you 20, 30—I'm talking like 90%. Yeah, how—just because you have like more swings at bat; someone cracks it in the second, someone cracks it—you share it. Exactly. So is that okay? That's interesting. So if someone cracks some—like you find—you basically have 30 people, and you just need one person to find like a really good winning format, and then as fast as possible you take that and you put it into—so do you have like a community of these people? Each—each brand has its own little Discord. It's a Discord, and just like Oliver—okay. So basically all of the creators then get onboard into a Discord; they're all making content, and then you're just monitoring it; you see one pop off, then Jimmy or whoever's managing it takes that and says, winning format, everybody copy this right now. And then when it rains, it pours. Exactly. Then you kind of run up that little micro-trend, and they do like weekly calls and like—so you're like managing and training all of them. Are they like employees for the company? Typ—contractors, yeah, yeah. But they're like—do you guys require like full-time or anything or just—you have to be on this call, post this time? Yeah, and at this point too, it's very like they don't because now the demand for it is so high, and brands are paying more; it's it's much more like the brands are having to work hard to retain talent. Gotcha. And so is there like a little like ecosystem of like—like how can you message creators directly from TikTok? Yeah, it doesn't work well, so don't do it directly. Twitter is probably like the best place to to kind of find them, but the freelancers. Yeah, what—what we did too to kind of not democratize this, but like Creator Corner is 3,500 bucks, four grand. So we have a uh one called Your First Dollar as well, which kind of runs through me cuz I got a big audience and a lot of kids that want to make money online and and don't do anything. So Your First Dollar is 50 bucks a month, and it's like the intro level to all of this, but million-dollar brand club brands will post in there; it's like a a micro version of it. And so somewhere like—that's a good place to find creators. There's no like—but you're trying to like not—yeah, you're trying to like create them in a way—like you're trying to like attract them into an opportunity and then create them, train them yourselves. So you're really putting a lot of effort into making sure the quality control of even the creators correct, and they're trained; that's why your success rate so high on on Creator Corner in particular. Yeah, like Jimmy—Jimmy turns—turns away people like if he doesn't think they're going to be good. F yeah, interesting. So if you're like lazy and you're just like trying to hire one UGC creator—like, great, I'm doing this—your odds are just not stacked in your favor. Correct. But so cool—you have like all these little advantages. So then once you have the creators going, I'm curious how—like is this actual brand equity? Like is—like this is like repeatable since it's democratized across not a personal brand but like 30 just UGC creators. Once you have that down, like is there another vertical you tackle, or is that just like you try to scale to as many creators as possible? Because it seems like with—at some point you win TikTok if you're like at—at your scale—not if you're the number one product. So yeah, everything has its moment is what we've noticed on TikTok too. So it's not like—can someone please invent a crystal ball? Until then, over 40,000 businesses have future-proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR—all into one f platform with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth, giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions with real-time insights and forecasting. You're peering into the future with actionable data. When you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you're spending less time looking backwards and more on what's next. Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com/wgmi. This guide is free to you at netsuite.com/wgmi; netsuite.com/wgmi. Thank you for sponsoring today's episode. You know, a product will go viral, and then it will pull back; like people just get fatigued, they've seen it enough, the angles aren't working. It's like Evil Goods—like that million-dollar month, as epic as it was, we will pull back; I guarantee it. We'll need to come out with new products, and we'll need to keep the community engaged. But my whole edge on just holistic business has been the Amazon component of it. Amazon is ungodly stable. So if you are the number one beef tallow organically on there, you can bank on 50,000 views a month with a 5% conversion, giving you however many sales that is, and a very consistent and planable manner. So that's been kind of my whole edge, if you will, taking that Amazon piece, which is like old school now, which is crazy to say, and rewarding yourself with all the external traffic during the peaks on TikTok while doing all that. Well, and so they have a stable business, then you can keep tinkering with cracking the the the money machine. TikTok's the magic money machine; Amazon is the stability. Interesting. And so it's like kind of like the email list. Do you have email lists? Is that a thing? They're a joke. Yeah, they're a joke because you're not running to Shopify or anything, just straight to Amazon. Okay, cool. So but have you tried to dabble—so you're—it's like you're like trying to—you put all this—like when you're launching a brand, you're putting all this money into TikTok creators; one person cracks it, you spread that message, and then you're trying to like just hit this big month and like win the market, have that one moment, and you stabilize on Amazon. And now you're organically ranking for that term. And so is that like kind of the strategy? It's like put everything into—try to rank number one for the term, and then once you're there, you're pretty solid. Obviously, you need to stay on your toes for another person to—but but that—that is the entire strategy. And Amazon has a thing called a honeymoon period; MH—they're—it's—it's an algorithm, so they need data, and when you introduce a new product to Amazon, there's a 90-day window cuz they always have a 90-day look back on how they want to reward you—reviews, your conversion, all of that. So when you introduce something brand new, there's 90 days to basically tell Amazon this product's fantastic. And if you combine that with the TikTok spillover, that's why we didn't give people the option of buying on TikTok shop with Evil Goods; we wanted to concentrate that Amazon boom to the point that we are number one; we are sticking; we are viral on Amazon. And when you hit that, then you have yourself a a permanent winner. Think of Amazon like digital real estate; all those search words are digital real estate. Yeah, and once you—once you buy that, you're being paid every day. So that's the true brand equity right there. So would the creators—like would you dial back on the creators after that hit or do you just keep them going? We thought a lot about this; it's new, right? Like Top Shelf, my first brand was kind of the pioneer; we had a product like this and then down, and it's some mix of keeping that community engaged and strong because creators will go to new brands; they go where the money's at, right? They want to be paid. And so how do you keep that community strong and and kind of weaponized, and then how can you feed them new products? Because—and then how can you reignite the existing ones cuz they will come back? Like Evil Goods can go like this, then down, and then give it two, three months, and you find a new angle or something happens in the news, right? It can always be very um culture-based too, so there can be moments where it comes back. Interesting. And if you can kind of run it like that, then you're going to capitalize on really maximum—maximum monetization; you'll find all the times when you can go viral; when you go viral, it's free money um and while still running a stable, healthy business. M, but there's just those moments you need to be on—be shooting for. So you're saying keep the community of that Discord—the Discord. Correct. But then what about like—how would you introduce—if you said you're going to make new products—like a product line—how would you introduce that to existing buyers? Same—same—same playbook, really. So you're—every—even if it's a new line, it's like a related product, and the branding should be in their mind. Exactly. So but you still have to get them through TikTok—the discovery machine. Exactly. But but on Amazon, there—there's things you can do; like Amazon has like—there's a lot of brandes—yeah, brand pages, and then now they're even letting you email existing customers. Like Amazon's pretty good for introducing—so you can email existing customers through Amazon, so you don't get their contact, but you can like—you end their back, and you can hit send email to your whole list or just single customers—to people that have bought the—yeah, to people that bought the product. Yeah, and it's—is there like a—is there like a limit to that, or is it just—it's not super strong, and I don't—don't quote me off top, but but it's like—I'm pretty sure you can send like an email a day—like it's—it's—so you're not—but you're not running email marketing through that or anything. M, it's—it's templated—like you don't have a lot of creativity or anything like that, but you can contact everyone who bought your thing and introduce a new product. Do you think they should open that up? Like if you had the emails of the customers, would you even run it? No, they'll never open that up. Like what—that—they—they've made—we used to be able to kind of back-door stuff like that, and they've just made every effort to—you know, what's on Amazon is Amazon. I guess that makes sense because then you're just going to try to siphon them off. Exactly. Yeah, it's a Shopify page or something. Okay, huh. So then you have the—that's like your go-to playbook here—like for company to company. I'm curious—this is just like a general genuine question, don't think this the wrong way, but like why go for so many brands and not just put all your effort into like—like you—not think that it's like—like why would—do you run Facebook or Instagram ads? Do you run YouTube ads? Is there like—or like YouTube uh creators—not even ads—just YouTube sponsors—like Jake and go after everybody—like Jake basically—um, what's the thought process behind that, brother? BL—blame Jimmy; he he makes money training creators, and the creators need somewhere to go; that's just the machine you have built up. It—it's the machine, and it's challenged me from a business perspective to be able to think through scale and like getting, you know, partners and people in place and and figuring out how to systematize and get the right things, you know, in order because we definitely have, you know—I mean, there's one brand that has 4 or 500 million potential for sure that—that I don't—I don't talk about on here, and that's like one that's its own focus; like we hired a CEO, and we're spinning it off, right? And we're doing those things; we're—we're doing Facebook, we're doing YouTube, we're going for retail. So is that how you would scale? I guess I don't even—I don't even know—I don't know if that was a naive question or not. I'm a guy that like—I go from zero to 50 million. Well, like that's kind of my—my range. It's good self-awareness. Yeah, and—and—and you're in your 20s; my other partner is the guy that, you know, he sold a pet business for for 600 million, and so he's kind of seen—seen that world and becomes more corporate and and stale. But zero to 50 million, you're looking for a profitable playbook. M, so all I think about is what are the pieces that you can put a dollar in the machine and make five. And when you talk about things like Meta ads, it's pretty well known—like they're not what they used to be. 100%, you know what I mean? Like seven years ago, that was the the thing—option. Yeah, yeah. And so YouTube—like I'm—I'm constantly scouring opportunities, but for—for two years until I saw your podcast with with Oliver, mhm—there—there wasn't a thing; like Amazon was drier than ever—like, you know, it was your—was mature comp, and then all of a sudden I saw this thing, and I go, oh, okay, that's—we have something again, and it's been two years and—and that's how I—I think about business, so I'm always looking for those verticals. So you have the biggest arbitrage right now with TikTok shop, so that's the biggest opportunity—maximize it, and then once you—that—I mean, 50 million is a great—you sold your last mon for 30 million, right? I'm saying 50 million revenue. Yeah, yeah, right. But how—how much—how old were you? How old are you now? Uh, I'm 32 now, and I was just about turned 27—it's 26. So you sold your company—we're 27 now; you're 32. Damn, dude, you're killer. That's crazy. Okay, so then you are investing in—like is there like any sort of like—how are you getting—I don't want to go deep on this topic—how are you finding people? Is my community. So that's what the whole point of your personal brand is now. Exactly. So it's kind of like the same thing as Heros, a private equity; it's super—the only difference is I charge—like I charge—be a million-dollar brand club; I looked at horos' thing, but you're more like incubating, right? So you're like incubator for physical products. I mean, he's just like all—he—he's just good at sales, so he's optimizing for companies where you can just implement a sales team for info—basically, we're just looking for good products, ideas, and entrepreneurs, and then we have the edge for them. And so—but you have—you kind of at that point you kind of have to charge because if you get a ton of free offers, then it's like overwhelming people. Yeah, like I mean, out of all the things we've done, we've invested in because most of these brands, even if they make some money over a couple years, the chances of them selling for money that matters to me or like my partners is—is low. So we're trying to be really strategic with the actual in, you know, we made—we've made seven of them in—in—in two years, so it's not like we're, you know, trying to grab pieces of everything; it's just be a pain in the ass on the tax return. Yeah, yeah. It's just like—you're making content that gets 100,000 views; you sort through like the series 100 people, and out of those 100, you choose the seven that actually have what it takes that you can put your machine into. Dude, you're playing the game at the highest, most modern level; this is sick. Well, we'll see how it plays out; like I'm—I'm trying to do it right for real. What do you think the time horizon is that you have to play on? I—I—I think—I think in—in two or three years we'll know like who win this game is the selling—yeah, is the selling process hard for these type of companies? Like what—I'm very curious on how like a CPG brand would go through like an acquisition. Yeah, the—the bigger the exit, the more—the more stringent the acquisition process. Are there companies that just scoop up like $10 million suppl—like they let you do all this work and then just like scoop up 10 million to try to take it to 50 or scoop up 50—like is that like a thing? Is there like te to it? Absolutely. So that—why you said you're like a zero to 50 type of guy, and then there's like people that like—once you get to 50, they know how to—but that's more like local manufacturing, distribution. No, it's—it's more systems and process and like business Ops, so that's when you kind of go from like—you know, you're in the Slack room with your guys firing off ideas, thinking about everything, to all of a sudden now we have a marketing department, now we have a CMO, now we have—I probably—what—you know, wop's going through like all that organizational stuff that I don't like—like I just—I don't like corporatization. Me neither. No, and—and yeah, I was like—I'm a content creator, you know—that's what'll take a brand from, you know, double-digit million enterprise value to to multiple nine figures—like just a—because it reduces risk; it's like—it's no longer dependent on Rob's brain; it's no longer dependent on just the TikTok system; now of a sudden you have a a welled machine that anyone can buy. Okay. So I think that—like it's kind of crazy—I don't know if I've—since I talked to Oliver and I've seen—like I'm so understanding of the strategy, but like there is no doubt that everything you just said is like 100% objectively correct, and it's the most modern optimal way to scale of brand, and it's repeatable. You're doing it with seven people, and you just told everybody in the world what to do, just like Oliver did a year ago, and you're seeing the success, but yet a lot of people watching this won't do it. Why is that? I—it's probably like ego—like—or not you go, but you're scared of trying because then if you try, you fail; that's my only perception. Like the easiest cop-out answer is like, you know what you need to do, but then if you haven't done it yet, what does that say about you? And it's kind of a hard pill to swallow for your ego, and you kind of like—but it's easier to like just say this guy on the internet's a scammer or whatever—like it's easier to protect yourself than admit that you don't have what it takes right now; you need to go work and gain skills. Yeah, that's my best answer. What do you think? I got a couple takes on it. Why would anyone lead with their ego when success often comes from failing fast, and your ego never wants to lose? I failed for several years after I sold that first portfol—like a a double-digit entrepreneur, you know, eight figures; I failed for several years; I went under on a cookie company; I went under on a protein bar company. But it was those losses that led me to Oliver and this system. And if I led with my ego, I would have kept trying. The ego wants to win, right? But once you logically understand that losses are what are going to shape wealth and like your actual growth, then it—you—you level up. I think most people are afraid to think about—like this—get way too philosophical, but the the genuine reality of—of life—of exist—like people don't think about—I'm going to die, mhm—I'm actually going to die, M, and I'll have all this Netflix information, and I'll know who won the the sports ball game on Sunday, and I was too scared to start the the business, even though I—I went down the rabbit hole and told my friend about it because it felt good, and I was really smart. And I think if more people looked at the lens of life through death, they would be more willing to do [ __ ] that actually mattered and do [ __ ] that changed their life. And I've been trying to speak a lot more on that because, you know, social media is relatively new to me. Like how long have you been doing YouTube? Eight years. Three for my—this channel—for this channel, but yeah, content for eight. Yeah, and content is probably like a two and a half year thing for me, serious. And I was like—I can just come with tactics and show people exactly how to do this and just be raw and real, and then I didn't realize how many people are in their head; they just need to be told they can do it or that that self-limiting belief needs to blow up. And so I've really tried to make that a pillar of my personal brand cuz I think it's important; like I don't want people to give a [ __ ]; I don't want people to give a [ __ ] about other people's expectations; I want them to look at me and see a guy that's like close to unhinged with just the lack of care for what other people think about me. What was your self-image before you started your first brand? Like I've always—this has always been my natural state of being; like I feel like my mentality has been the exact same since I was like 18, 19 when I picked up my first camera; it was like—this sounded like a fun thing to do; I just like trying stuff, going out, doing things in the world and make money from it and such; like I feel like I'm just doing the same thing for nine years, even though every business has been different; there's been a ton of failures. So what was your mindset when you were just starting out—not mindset, but like self-image—like perception of yourself? I've been born and died like seven times in the last 20 years—like actually. And when I first started, when I first got out of college, I think I knew I'd be an entrepreneur, and um—like I just knew I'd find a way to work for myself and make money, and I still spent most of my time like eating Chipotle and going to the gym; I was like a gym bro, and then kind of was like looking for side-hustle type things to kind of, you know, find whatever. Mhm. And it was when I found Amazon and realized how much money that was being made that—like that was like my first death. I went from like a guy that, you know, like how many times I could bench 315 was my life—like that was my—my self-image; I didn't particularly care about like clothing or fashion or anything like that; it wasn't a huge interest; it was your thing—like I'm the gym guy; I'm the gym guy. And and that person died violently, and it was replaced with a kid that was willing to sit at that computer every minute of every day and do whatever it took to grow that business because I knew there was a window. Could you explain that death? What do you mean by that, and why do you use that such aggressive language? Because that—that was my entire personality; that was me. But was it like a hard thing—like were you like hit in the face with something that made you do that—like what was—how were you able to like kill that identity? It's hard to do—like consciously, at least. Yeah, honestly, one of the moments that—that sparked all that was the the passing of—of my grandma. It just kind—it all happened at once; like I—I—I wandered into this Amazon world, and I was just kind of starting; I had a different brand, Modern Man, that did—did—did well, but I was just starting; I was kind of dabbling; I'm making some money, and she was like the the center of our family, and that's why I tied everything back to death earlier, but I'll never forget this: we—I'm sitting at my desk like looking at some Amazon stuff, and my mom calls me, and she's like, hey, your—your dad—you know, took your grandma in, and um—she like trails off, and I'm kind of sitting there; I'm like, what—what's—what's going on? For an operation? She—she didn't wake up. And her voice just explodes, you know, and uh—I'm—everything just kind of went numb, and I'm like, what—you know, what's going—I'm this kid; I don't understand death; I haven't lost anyone; I got both of my parents. And it was just like shaking, and she went in for an operation; had something in her leg fixed; it was like super routine; young 70, like center of our family, you know, saw her once a month for dinner; had been with her two weeks before. And uh—her heart stopped, and they spent

Standpoint, you know? So explain this to me, cuz this has… Have you read the book *Psycho-Cybernetics*?

Yeah, of course. Yeah. So I’m like, is this like a… That’s why I’m asking, asking all of this. Is this like a thing that you’ve like leaned into, where you… it’s incredibly powerful. You’re explaining, cuz you’re like someone who’s doing it very visibly, and that’s really cool to me. And so I’d love to hear your thought process behind that. I spent $70,000 on a permanent diamond in my tooth, so… GS and your teeth are funny, sick. But, but *Psycho-Cybernetics* is that that idea that like confidence in who you are like comes from from looking at yourself, you know? And I wasn’t that building genius; that was a that was an afterthought. It’s been a a something over the last three years where I say, if I want to be be that guy, or I want to be like a a pop culture icon or a billionaire, or like all these goals that I don’t yell about but might have written down, I need to continually become that, and I need to invest in that. And those need to be… We talk about investing all the time; we’re putting money in the S&P 500 and this and that, but where is the investment in yourself, you know? Like, where’s the investment in the the gym? And it almost sounds cliché, but I want to… I don’t want to talk about it; I want to literally be it. I want people to go look at Rob from two years ago, and I want you to take notes on financial success and visually what I look like and all of that. And and I want you to see that, and then I want people to understand that playbook’s real. And the more you focus on—I call it life maxing—but you take that scorecard of all the things you like. Fashion’s unique to me; like I I love it. I don’t think everyone should; I think a lot of people shouldn’t give a damn about it, but you all have your unique things that you do love, you know, whether that be guitar or or whatever. And you focus on developing those components of your life, and the returns I think are are unmatched. Like, but do them intensely and consciously.

Is that what you’re saying?

Intensely, yeah, with intention. Like, literally make a scorecard; like, fashion right now, if if ly is 100, like where where am I at, and what do I need to do to get there? What do I need to learn? What do I need to… So it doesn’t matter what or why, but if whatever it is, do it fully, essentially.

Is this something that’s conscious for like personal branding? Like, I didn’t know if you were like, “I’m going to be on camera, so I need to be like identifiable.” Is it… was it like when you… cuz you kind of pivoted into this personal brand game now too?

Not pivot; it started three years ago. Just… just I was in Puerto Rico in my, you know, $15 million house, and I… I’m not going… I’m getting no TikTok action. I bought these Tom Ford glasses cuz I’m in Puerto Rico, and I yell about people; they’re not going to be multi-millionaires in crypto with my glasses. And it goes crazy viral, and I’m like, huh? Since then, I’ve probably bought—you think—a 100 different pairs of sunglasses. We spent 100 grand on sunglasses since then. But that was like my first um, kind of like understanding that that visual component really matters. People love to say how you look doesn’t matter; it’s what’s on the inside. It’s [ __ ]! It’s [ __ ]! But the cooler part is you can 100% influence and control that, right? Like I still… I mean, cool, the teeth are one thing, but like I hit the gym like crazy; like I I I spend time like, you know, like curating these things, crafting these things.

During during that L, after that period, you tried two more brands?

Is that like… yeah, I start… I started four and uh, actually three of them failed. One of them was like an investment, so I don’t really… yeah, chalk that up. And the other was Top Shelf; like Top Shelf wrote it out through that time period and now…

So what’s your thought process, because like I’ve I also have had like 18 different businesses, and there are periods… it’s it’s so interesting for me to look back because I’m like, I was so delusionally like sure about that one being the thing, and was so into it, telling everybody around me, “This is going to be a huge deal!” All in on it, and then something else pops up, and that… how do you allow yourself to… your ego to take that and then to move on to the next one, and then equally get as delusional about that one? What were you doing in the Ls? Is like my question, I guess.

It’s that failure; it’s when you feel sick that you lost or you’re or you’re not who you thought you were. Those are the moments that actually shape you, and you go through enough of those that you almost start looking forward to them; like you you… no, I mean, really, you almost walk through life like, you know what, everything’s just an up and down; it’s another test. As long as I’m strong, as long as I’m like… but this is what dictates everything between your ears; like, like happiness comes from your mind state. Like, if a loss is a lesson, you’re good, you know? And the stronger you train yourself up there, the more routine all of this comes, and the more you you know to seek out the good things. And so getting delusional on new ideas, it’ll always be there, but I’d say there’s a level of of understanding that I’ve just… I’ve been, hey, look, like I’m older now; I live and learn, like, you know… like the first time it happens, it’s it’s demoralizing.

Have you found the way you think when you were like 23, 24, being like very like outcome-focused or like material-focused, and now that you’ve gone through the spiritual phase, like did you think that more stuff… I’m curious, is what… how your mindset shifted after the spiritual phase, or how your approach to life… like right now I’m like much more…

Have you read *The Surrender Experiment*? Have you ever read that book where you just like… you kind of like just agree you’re not in control, and like you have like… you intend to be in this direction, and just things are going to work…

Yeah.

Things are just going to work out for you, basically. Like, do the work required to succeed, but like don’t think your analytical mind is going to predict every single step.

No, exactly. Exactly. You look at… you look at… so it wasn’t really from my spiritual time, but I had a I had a experience a couple years back where I thought I was going to like have a long battle with cancer; like I had a melanoma cut off my ear, and it was it was jarring, cuz again, you’re that like health freak; you’re this guy, like, yeah, health… you’re not going to die young, and then I had a pretty real flirt with with disaster. And that sent me down a long long thing where the outcome where I came on the other end of it was, wow, this this whole thing is a is a plot that we can’t we can’t see. MH. And the more you’re in tune with that—this is kind of the spiritual side—but the more you you you surrender, the more you’re quiet to it, you realize you can kind of see it unfolding and even influence it sometimes. M. It’s when you resist, it’s when you fight it, it’s when you want some other plan that’s not already there… like entirely not there… that you that you become unhappy and you lose, you know? Because think about your life; like the the moments that brought you here, how you found YouTube, how your friends with, you know, whoever, and they’re so random and they’re so… why I’m here… they’re so fluky, right? You want to know how I know Jimmy? Well, Jimmy’s probably the the single most impactful person in my life over the last decade, but financially… like, life… all it… I met Jimmy because a deep fake went viral on Coffeezilla with Joe Rogan and Andrew Huberman. Do you remember that? It was all over internet history, right?

You made a video on it; a lot of people did.

No, but that was someone who was working for me for with Top Shelf, with that brand, and…

Oh, you’re talking about the deep fake AI Joe Rogan like ad promoting a supplement?

Uhuh.

Yeah, you guys did that. That was my supplement. Good marketing. And Jimmy was the person that retweeted it, and I don’t know Jimmy this time; I have no idea who this kid is. He says… he says, “Holy [ __ ]!” You know, like, “AI for supplements now? How is this legal?” Mhm. First comment: an attorney. “It’s not.” I’m watching this thread; 30,000 views; it’s Super Bowl Sunday. I’m like, all right, it’s going to blow over, right? Halftime, it’s at like maybe 200,000; like it’s it’s bad, but it’s not like, you know, it’s not going to ruin anybody. Coffeezilla retweets it; 20 million views within the next like 24 hours. Coffeezilla is reaching out to to me; he’s going on to Rogan; it was this whole thing. I’m like, damn, this company’s over; my rep’s going to take a little rip here; like this ain’t good, you know? And it was like a genuine… I was trying to do that affiliate system with people, and someone spun that off and it like…

So one of your affiliates did that?

Yeah. And it didn’t sell any product; like it like it it genuinely wasn’t like a… I mean, the numbers on the business were what they were; I wasn’t making like good money… just… and um… interesting. And that fluke, you know, goes viral. Jimmy retweets under the thread, “Well, if anyone actually wants to learn how to make money on TikTok without deep fakes, hit me up.” Nice. And so I did, and had no idea who the kid was. And if that sequence of events didn’t happen, my life would probably look dramatically different. And that all… and at that time that was probably like a horrible thing to happen in your mind; sickening! Like, I’m on the phone with the attorney; my, you know, my attorney on Super Bowl Sunday; I’m like, “Man, we gotta talk to Rogan’s people; I like… tell… I’m sorry…” Like Huberman’s tweeting on the thread; never said this, you know? I’m like, damn, how’d they find you? How are you even associated with it? I own the company… like, so they just… okay… back… I wasn’t secretive with it.

Yeah.

And so um… like obviously that was kind of the message too; it’s like, okay, well, if he would… you know, you think he okayed this? Like he’s he’s… and so shout out to all of all those people involved; like Huberman, great guy; Rogan, great guy; like they…

So they all… you had to talk to them and like cleared it up?

Like, yeah, like we we donated to Huberman’s like char… you know… like charity; something… they were cool; like they were like, “Show us… did you make money?” If we made money, they’re gonna take that money. Yeah, but they’re like, “No, this is the the numbers…” and like, you know… all because you had an affiliate program, and an affiliate saw an opportunity to use AI…

Yeah. It was a horrible defect; it it wasn’t like good, but it was like in the time where that was really popular, and it was like… it was the first bro, and it was like, honestly, smart; it was the first… if you could do that, that’d be the smartest thing to do. But yeah, super illegal. So yeah, that all went down, but that that’s my point; it’s like after that moment, I just… I felt like there was a whole new level of trust in the universe, and and less care about money. It’s kind of funny; like the the less I’ve cared about money, the more the richer I’ve gotten. The more I’ve like been willing to go in all all in on experiences, different people, buy gifts… like, really just invest in life, the the better it’s gotten. And I feel like that inherently comes from trust in faith, like whatever that might be—God, whatever you want to call it.

Yeah.

So that… I just want to go back to that because I think a lot of people… we hear these stories on these podcasts, especially if people don’t know anybody that goes on these podcasts… you’re just like an everyday person in Kansas, where I’m from, and you hear someone say that… that sounds like a really like… oh, that’s amazing for this guy; he made that video go viral, and then he met his partner. But like, I don’t… I think people fully grasp how unfun that month was for you, and then you had no ability to see that this Jimmy Farley guy that you replied to is actually going to turn into what it is right now. At that time, you just replied to a tweet, totally out of your mind, and you’re going through a whole-on crisis; this company’s over… like literally probably one of the worst times of your life for months, day in and day out, anxiety… you have to reach out to these teams; uncertainty… are you going to get sued? Like, very very not fun.

One or two months, I’m sure, or a week or however long…

Bro, I mean, really a brutal two years prior to that on top of the two years… yeah, like like it was really just, you know… I had the health thing, and I would say what what started to shap… shape everything… this why I can’t… I I can’t tell you exactly… like people say, “Oh, that’s fufu; that’s stupid,” but I got through that like, you know, kind of cancer scare and realized like I want to live life…

Mhm.

And I’m tired of being this guy that wants to be super frugal and sit on money, and I was like… Jing… my wife… I haven’t… I haven’t seen the world; like I… we can… I can go spend $50,000 on a vacation, and it’s not… I… when I sold Genius, I didn’t do anything with the money for like two years; like I had like a a a Model X, you know, in like a $2 million house in in Isqua, and I just… I I don’t know… I was start… trying to figure out how to be rich; I was scared to lose it. And um, it was very strange. And then something broke in me where it’s like, okay, I could literally be dead tomorrow. M. Let’s go! Let’s go spend that money and go stay at the best hotels in Italy. And and so we started like, you know… my parents… I come from a… we have conditioning from our parents, of course, and I come from a very… you know, my dad grew up with nothing, and so that that was like drilled in me. And so they’d call it frivolous; they’d call it stupid, and I was like, “[ __ ] it!” You know? Like, “No, we’re going to go see the world; I worked hard for this; I could be dead tomorrow.” Or or cancer could come back, and like I could live an entirely different life, so let’s let’s hit it. And it was when that shift happened that’s when I started buying nicer clothes; like I stopped worrying about those things, and slowly I think that’s what attracted the better things in my life, like actually… and this is a this is a double-digit millionaire saying that… who, you know, is is very analytical… like I went through all the wealth protection stuff of like risk and you know how to how to properly manage your portfolio and all of that, and then I was like, “No [ __ ] it!” Like, let’s… money is energy; it’s it’s energy, and it’s something that can be exchanged for a better life, for better experiences, and those experiences could introduce you to one person that makes you 100 million. And that that’s the shock that people don’t get; the more you’re fluid with it, the more you’re abundant with that [ __ ], it goes out, it comes back, and your life just keeps getting better. It’s not like a good economy right now, and we’ve been like balling for a… better deals on the fashion, you know? And I really believe that, but it’s hard; it’s hard. And I think there’s a lot of work that needs to go into it first; like people need to separate themselves from… it’s that like cliché self-help stuff, but really… separate yourself from the down energy; separate yourself from the from the friends that aren’t going anywhere, you know? Like, start taking care of yourself to a respectable level; start having respect for yourself; like, hit the gym; like those are all the things. And then the second you do those, you get you get motion. But the problem is people aren’t… they want the motion immediately; nothing happens immediately; like you expect cuz you went… it’s almost like the universe is watching you and rewards the effort, and they put the next carrot in front of you and like see if you’ll… cu… you’re stepping… take the right to… and if you resort back to old ones, it’s like killing momentum, and then downward trajectory.

Exactly. And if you like reinforce that behavior, it’s what you get; like the universe is a mirror.

Exactly. You’re stepping into who you’re supposed to be, and then the further you get into that… cuz you even at the highest level you get pulled back; like [ __ ] just happens. But when you’re really… I’m telling you, you’re like there with fate; like times… damn, they’re not real; you’re like, “Oh, I already… I achieved that; I can actually see it; like that’s how that was supposed to be; I was supposed to get my wife here; I was supposed to…” Like, you’re so in tune with it. And so then when something that bad happens to you in the future, you just like laugh and you’re like, “All right; like this is for…” You have to trust; it’s for some reason, and there’s some lesson here that’s going to get you to where you… yourself image is saying you want to be. As long as you made that mental decision, that’s how you have… that’s the perception you have to have, or perspective you have to have.

Could you point back to when you were going through those two years for like the failed cookie company to what the piece… what the lesson was with that business that then resulted in what you’re doing now? Like what you… what you gained from that…

The the health stuff… the health stuff is what made those matters zero. It’s that… it’s that Naval quote; it’s like… show… what is it? Show me any… your incentive… no, that’s… that’s… no, no, Naval has one; it’s like, “Any any dying man only wants to be healthy,” or something like that. I butchered it, but it was it was it was that; it was like, none of this business stuff matters, you know? I’m 28, 29; like it’ll sweep away people; like who cares what other people think on it? What matters is I’m healthy and have the opportunity to live life. And so that added… I’ve had so many layers of perspective added on top of just general business, right? Like real [ __ ] happens; friends die; like like those are the moments where you kind of go, okay, this is super important, and I love it, but at the end of the day I want to be living life a certain way. And so if I’m doing those businesses and and not liking my life, I shouldn’t shouldn’t be doing them.

So then would you think about yourself… this is where I get so in my head about stuff… like if you were 22 again, is this the correct advice, or is it the point that when you’re 22 you’re so hungry for it, you need… but you have no hard skills? And so is that the luxury that you get to… once you have hard skills, and that by the age… by the time we were both 26, we both had accumulated a lot of hard skills, then we were like… so is that… that’s what I’m saying; the need those hard skills. But but I’m still understand… I don’t buy into like the the balance and the the seasons or this… I’m always curious, and I’m always trying to learn new skills, and I never want to get… go old. And I’m learning from younger people; that’s been one of my biggest advantages; like I I accept I’m not the young kid anymore; like I can tell you more about TikTok business than most of that generation, right? Because I’m I’m curious, and I’m constantly developing hard skills. You can do those things now. When you’re 22, you have literally none, so you need to sharpen something fast. But I look at these kids who come into Jimmy’s Creator’s Corner, and they develop that first skill, and they make money, and this is kind of our whole philosophy with all of it, right? Okay, now put that money out there in the universe; see what it does for you. Don’t take your eye off the ball; keep working; keep thinking bigger, but don’t be afraid to to, you know, move to Miami… don’t move to Miami; terrible place! Uh, I hate Miami. But but that that philosophy, you know… they have to get some hard skill, but once you’re kind of on that treadmill, you can you can do it all; that’s the life maxing MMO. So it’s like… so such hard advice to take on the internet because it’s like… there are wrong things to spend money on, but spend it; it’s energy; use it to move forward in momentum, as long as it’s directionally where you’re trying to go. Take the risk 100%. But I guess with the what I was talking about with the cookies and whatever these examples were like… is there a t… lesson that you learned with…

No, but it’s a good answer, but is there an objective… like, can you look back and be like, there was a lesson in that business that I learned, or a perspective or a strategy or something that you like actionably used now that is key to this business?

Yeah, I I chased things I didn’t give a [ __ ] about. I I built those brands so… I’m full of clichés… I built those brands for for money. I thought keto was super trendy; I didn’t give a [ __ ] about keto; I knew it would would die out, and I thought I could just catch the wave. I learned that unit economics really matter; like you can make 60% margin, but if it’s $25 a bag, that doesn’t work on the internet. And so I I preach that from a tactical perspective, but there’s something to be said for having a level of care, interest, and passion in what you’re doing; that’s so clichéd. Like people… I want to go where where, you know… I make money, but you can make money and do something you like; like I can build a company… like I’m way more interested in Evil Goods from the branding, from from all of it; like I just am… my partner, the $600 million one, you know… like he he loves the pet space, so when he’s invested in one of my sub-businesses, he doesn’t give a [ __ ], but when he’s launching his pet venture, you see that that fire ignite. And when that fire is there, you’re amplifying your learning; you’re amplifying your growth; like all those things, right? That that constitute a day… if you’re going through it half-ass, you’re not getting better at the speed that the guy is whose heart’s on fire, right? And so that that was the the mistake there for me. That’s the Naval quote; like, “Do what feels like play; what other… what what looks like work for others feels like play to you,” or something like that. And that’s why I love this this stuff now; I genuinely like love it. I know I’m not the best, but I know I’ve learned a lot, and like I’ve just seen my growth in two years of this… you know… personal branding content versus trying to pick up other skills that I don’t care about; I progress zero, whereas this… it’s like, oh, what constitutes a hook? Like, what you wear, the different sunglasses, and it’s like you get those reps in, and that’s how you become something. It’s like, “Do what gives you energy.”

Mhm.

See, I feel like the clichés are actually like what you need, but you have to experience it first, and to then understand the data compression where if you learn the cliché first, it’s like, “Do what gives you… do what gives you energy,” it’s like, “Okay, I’ll do cocaine…” And and but that’s why I’m doing this… not the cocaine; I’m not doing cocaine… but that that’s why I’m doing this; it’s because you can’t tell people [ __ ]; MH. You can’t… people don’t listen, but you can show them. When you look back and you see the video of like, “Oh, this was Rob, you know, three years ago,” and then you see me sell a company and live… you… another one, and live this certain life, that’s when people go, “Oh…” Mhm. And I realize that when I sold Genius, I told you I didn’t spend any of that money, right? And no one took me that seriously in my hometown; I didn’t know it; like I think they… like, “Oh, you know, successful entrepreneur,” or whatever. And then I go buy the crazy house in Puerto Rico and start talking online two and a half years after I sold my business, and people are like, “This guy’s something.” And and but but you can use that as an inspiration for for others if you do it right, and that that’s what I hope to accomplish.

What experience did you have that actually… cuz that probably showed you personal brand… yeah… like you had $30 million or whatever it was, and no one gave a [ __ ], and and probably didn’t believe you, but once you started showing it, they’re like… it’s like undeniable… or like what experience did you have that made you see that personal brand was the thing that you wanted to do?

That I actually wanted to do it? I I just enjoyed it, honestly. I enjoy every component of understanding; I think it’s the opportunity to communicate at at scale, like to the masses, and I think there’s something really powerful in that. I think you see it in political, you know, discourse, and and I think it’s one of the best talents you can have. So that that drew me to that world, just… yeah, the skill. So… right before this podcast, right before we record, you said the stuff about Mark Cuban… but you think these people now that are doing the personal brands are going to be how we perceive… how we perceive like Elon and Mark Cuban, all these people that are like the 40, 50-year-old like big boys, PayPal Mafia, all those guys… how we perceive them now, you think that the people who have personal brands now will be the equivalent in our generation in 10 years, 20 years?

I think… I think whenever you combine enterprise and media… mhm… I think you have a real shot at at something lasting, and that that was Trump; that was Cuban; like, you know, the Broadcast.com… or… no, no, no, Cuban sold a company; successful entrepreneur, and then went into Shark Tank and got the media. And Trump was whatever he was, and then *The Apprentice*, right? Then he was a TV star. And so you look at… we don’t watch TV anymore; we watch YouTube. And so if you’re doing this properly with the real enterprise component, you’ll… some people in this space will become the future voices of that. So so is that when you… so is that perspective of documenting and like stating what you’re doing publicly on purpose, or just like literally being in the public eye, and then people kind of know you’re the you’re the TikTok shop CPG guy? Like, I don’t… see… at the end of the day, too… you don’t… no one knows Mark Cuban is BR… we know Broadcast.com, but the average person knows that’s the successful business guy that owns the Mavericks, right?

The Mavericks?

Yeah. Now it’s the Mavericks. Yeah. Even though he sold them, but but I mean, Trump, similar deal; like no one knows… that’s a whole another case, I guess. But it’s… on the hotel… I… it’s just the ability to inspire and entertain people… mhm… however you do it; that’s kind of the the beauty of it. We don’t know exactly… didn’t the Hormos just mess around with like a docuseries, like *Meet the Hormos*, something like…

Yeah. That was like a… on their channel at the bottom… the Hormos, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And so we have that ability; I just believe we… I want to create the world I see in my head, and I know the components of it; it’s like, if you entertain people, they will watch, right? Or if you inspire people, they will watch; like if you’re… I draw a lot of inspiration from music, and you look through kind of what makes like an artist successful, and it’s a lot of those pieces with a certain image. And so if you can bring those components into some form of media, whether it be Instagram, YouTube, live streaming, while still having those actual credentials, I think there’ll be some very strong household names over the next decade because this is how we grow up, right? This form of media… it’s kind of accessible in like a land grab in theory, even though it’s kind of mature, it’s still kind of early for this; it’s shifting to that level, right?

100%.

What have you learned from artists that’s interesting?

Oh, I I I draw most of my stuff… like my Instagram is largely based off Drake. Yeah. It works; like every component of Drake for visibility and personal branding, and from the stuff he wears to… he’s the guy that played this last decade perfectly in the Instagram era; like he just, you know… from picture posting to collabs to to all of it. And you go… if it works in that domain, it will it’ll work in another. And um… artists are some of the best marketers in the world; like it’s kind of no different; like their businesses, the music and the… but their personal brand is Instagram and their perception and the stories and the PR and rumors getting told around them. And now we’re shifting into this TikTok era where like that’ll be different than Instagram; now it’s like, who can tease the songs? Who can go viral? Who can do multi-channel distribution? What we’re doing with products… but what we’re doing with products works with music; if we had 50 creators who could do 50 dances that, you know, could go viral, you could have a number one bestselling song on all platforms. It’s it’s a fundamentally fun shift of the world across the board. So in theory, everything’s a personal brand… everything… I don’t know if I’d say everything’s a personal brand; it’s just information is being disseminated in a fundamentally new way, and every time the ground shifts is where all the opportunity is; like I mean… Tate… Tate leveraged exactly what we’re doing with product, and he became… Tate’s message isn’t new; Tate’s persona isn’t inherently that new, right? Like guys like Ric Flair were around… W… like it’s a likable thing; we know there’s a a market for it, but it was that manipulation of information… how it’s disseminated… and there’s no gatekeeper on who can distribute that.

Exactly. In your control. It’s… it used to be Hollywood; it used to be TV network, and all of a sudden, if you make something [ __ ] dope enough, you can be whatever you want, but you have to be in full control of that and creative enough to do it and have the balls to just… the BS… put stuff out there, right? I put out a lot of content that like flops, but that’s what you have to do. I mean, the hardest part is that you’re going to say something now; in six months, is going to be… you’re going to have a completely different opinion, and then the exposing niche of YouTubers are just going to…

Hey, that’s no issue for for politicians, you know? I never said that… it’s right here…

No, but luckily… well… yeah… exactly… exactly… say we’re going to have that excuse in the future, which I’m actually so excited for, not because like I need it, but just because… like imagine being in the 80s or 90s or 70s… like just being able to be yourself and not have any worry… now you go to clubs or anywhere out in public and in LA and people are just like afraid to have fun because everybody can record it. So maybe AI will give us that freedom back; that’s my… that’s my thesis; that’s my hypothesis. And we’ll check back in 10 years… or it’s the worst thing ever, and there’s cameras detecting everybody, but who knows… we all are AI and just gone…

Yeah, we’ll see… *Terminator*…

All right. Well, your YouTube channel… you like came on this scene really strong, and your YouTube content is like super informative; you’re probably like one of the most like actually like credible people to be teaching, especially your teaching your actual domain of expertise and not selling some sort of like productivity course or anything like that. So shout out to you for being so open about it; shout out to you for giving everybody the blueprint. It’s nice that when we talk in this podcast that you are just literally sharing the best practices that you’ve learned through 10 years of failures; like you… exactly how you said the last two examples of cookies and the other one before that; like, “Choose a product that you’re happy with; make sure your margins are high enough.” Those are all lessons you learned, and you just internalized it in the first 45 minutes and just gave us the objective correct path and exactly what’s working right now. So anyone watching this that wants to do a physical product business, you know what you need to do now; let go, do the work, risk failure, and learn. But absolutely, Rob, huge props to what you