"Courage, Truth & Dietrich Bonhoeffer" With Eric Metaxas & Pastor Greg Denham

Would you pray with me, Lord? We love You. We thank You that as You have said, "Where two or more are gathered in Your name, You're right there in their midst." We believe it that You're here with us, Lord. And, um, Lord, what is it You'd like to say to us tonight? You have said many a times, "He who has an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit would say." And I just pray, Lord, have Your way within all of our hearts tonight. Uh, we, Lord, give You our attention. We thank You for the great promise that those who wait upon the Lord, i.e., give attention to You, uh, will be renewed in strength. And, um, that's what we want to do here tonight, Lord. We want to hear from You. What does He like to say to us? We thank You so much for Eric. We thank You for his extraordinary life and voice and his pen and his communication, um, and the difference that he's making. And thank You for his precious wife, Suzanne. And we ask that You would particularly strengthen him and gift him tonight. And I want to thank You, Lord, for every person in this room, from the youngest to the eldest, that You love with everything, and we love as well. And, uh, thank You for what You're doing, Lord, in San Diego. Thank You, Lord, for the awakening that is taking place, that ideas matter, that truth matters, that life matters, that of course You're the King of a kingdom that will never break down. There's that awakening which is the most important. And we pray, Lord, that there would be a fire, a good fire of righteousness and truth, that would spread throughout North County, where tens of thousands would come to know You as Lord and Savior. And, um, thank You that You hear us. We love You. Be blessed. We commit this time to You. We ask these things in Jesus' name. And everyone who agreed said, Amen. Amen.

Wonderful, you guys. You may have a seat at this time. Well, I'm so glad that you're here. God bless you. Thank you for being here. Um, and if you're here for the very first time, let me ask you something. Is there anybody here for the very first time visiting this church? Could you raise your hand? Well, God bless you. God bless you. God bless you. Many. Thank you. Thank you. You know, I'll tell you something. Um, we wanted to get the news out to as many people as possible. You know, Instagram and Facebook has made it more difficult, actually, to communicate. No, I kid you not. So it's like, so in other words, it's like if you, if you want to, you want to pay for an ad to communicate to the public, um, the categories, like if you, you know, I don't know, if you want to speak to young people, you want to speak to believing Christians, you want to, uh, to speak to those who are interested in philosophy, the, um, categories have really been kind of, well, they, I don't know what happened to the categories. So it's, it has become much more difficult, interestingly. It's a weird world in which we live.

Tonight, it's about truth. Tonight's about truth. Jesus said, "The truth will set you free." You can clap if you like. And, uh, tonight is about courage. You know, I'm reminded of what John Wayne said, you know, "Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyways." Right? Courage is so important. Tonight is about the life of Dietrich Bonhoeffer. We have an expert on his life. Why we need to know about our precious brother, Dietrich. Ponder. I love him. And it's going to be a conversation with someone that I believe is one of the most important voices in our generation, in our nation, as well as the world. And I'll tell you why I believe that. That's it. It's, uh, it's wonderful to be an onlooker. Well, Eric's my dear friend, but to, to see how the Lord has shaped his life. And thank you, Suzanne, for marrying Eric, by the way. Thank you so much. Thank you. Oh, Lord. Thank you so much, Fernando. That's one of the reasons. Okay. He is who he is. Okay. Anyways, thank you, Suzanne. In fact, Suzanne, would you please stand? Thank you, Suzanne Mataxis. God bless you, Suzanne Mataxis, sweetheart. All the way from New York. Well, I'll tell you why, because speaking of Eric is that, you know, he brought to us in such an incredible way the life of Martin Luther, who has had like the most profound influence on Western civilization, right? And so Luther, uh, stared down a corrupt church and stood on the authority of scripture. And then he brought the life of William Wilberforce. So thank God for William, who had the guts to stand up for the value of life and stand against the slave trade. And you talk about feeling alone at times. Well, Eric could tell us all about it and give us all the details, but that's a whole other world that we don't understand. And you have Wilberforce, who took us around a bend in history that, that we, we can have a hard time even comprehending. It was so broken. But Eric brought his life to us. And then he brought Dietrich Bonhoeffer's life to us, who, and we're going to be talking about him, who stared down Hitler, knew the evil of Hitler very early. He had the discernment because he was a man of God. He felt called to the ministry at 14. And we're going to be talking about these things. And, um, and I believe personally that in doing so, the Lord used that in Eric's life to shape his own soul and to shape his voice for such a time as this. I believe it with all my heart. So here's a man that I believe helps us understand objectively the times in which we live, the context of our times, and where we need to be as followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, and how we need to honor God with our life. So I am so super proud of him. You know, he was speaking in the area, he's been speaking like all day, and then we dragged him out here. And I'm so glad that we did not really drag him, but he's here with us. Let's give a nice warm welcome to Eric Mataxis. Eric, come on up! Yay! God bless you! Yay! Yay! Unbelievable! Eric Mataxis! You, uh, hey, we're the same age. You embarrass me. Do I embarrass you? Because he's my friend. Yes, he's my friend. Otherwise, nobody would get away with this if they weren't my friend. What a blessing to be here. I feel honored to be here. I hope the Lord could have something to say through me, uh, today. So thank you. Well, he's going to, for sure. And I'm curious, how many of you listen to Eric Mataxis's podcast? Can you raise your hand? Okay. Awesome. How many of you have, how many, how many, how many of you tithe unto me after the order of Melchizedek? How many? Come on. Not that many. Yeah. Now, now, how many hands? No, I thought you were going to bring a nun. Yeah, that's funny. That is. Yeah, that's very good. Can I ask you, is that the first time you thought of that idea? Uh, what, like this tithe and like, no, I think I've used that phrase over the years, but I didn't remember. I've never tried to. I actually thought you're going to take in a different direction, as like encourage like the offering tonight or something, you know? That's how it. No. Um, so Eric, thank you. So we're going to talk about a lot of things. You know, on your, on your show, you said you mentioned to your guests, we're going to talk about everything. I always say it's the show about everything. And I think that part of the reason I say that is because I think, I mean, this is actually a big thing in my life, is that I think even though it's okay if God calls you to talk about theology and Jesus all the time, if you're a pastor or whatever, or if he calls you to talk about politics and and stuff all the time, that's great. But I, I think it's also good to to talk about everything so that people don't always feel like it's got to be about this or about this or about that. We can just say, you know, whatever we believe affects everything. If it affects how we approach, uh, everything. And so, um, I, I try to be eclectic. That's, I feel like God has called me to everything to some extent. So, uh, it's, it's, uh, it can be fun. It can be fun. Absolutely. And it is.

Well, let's begin with John chapter 18. I thought it'd be great to begin with the scripture. And this is in Jerusalem, 2000 years ago, and where Jesus is interacting with Pilate. And Pilate therefore said to him, "Are you a king then?" And Jesus answered, "You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born." That speaks of His humanity. "And for this cause I've come into the world." Which actually speaks of His deity. "That I should bear witness to the truth. And everyone who is of the truth hears My voice." And Pilate, who is the Roman governor of Judea and Jerusalem, asks, "What is truth?" Now, I don't know how he asked, if he was with a sneer or a sigh, but I wish he had continued that conversation. All right, it's leading to a question I want to begin with, Eric Mataxis. That is, let's talk a little bit about truth, because we're kind of in this post-truth generation. You have, you wrote a book, "Is Atheism Dead?" Which is awesome. These are my Eric Mataxis books, right? They're back here. These are mine. They look very new. You haven't read these books? No, I have. Well, that's you. I don't care if people are. Well, there's a reason for that. I actually haven't unpacked my books. There's probably, I have like multiple, multiple, uh, multiple copies. But anyways, his newest book is "Is Atheism Dead?" But one of the things that you said is, "If all there is is matter, then nothing matters." I love that line. Okay. And I was hoping that you could build that out a little bit. What do you mean by that? That's not going to happen tonight. I got nothing. I got nothing to give. Um, no, I, um, this is important. And this is, if you read the, the, "Is Atheism Dead?" book, I talk about, it's really not so much about atheism, it's about the evidence for God. And the evidence for God leads you to believe there's so much evidence for God in so many different disciplines that if you're really honest, you realize atheism's not even on the table anymore. If you're honest, you could say, like, "Well, I'm not a Christian. I got questions." Good. But to say that there is no God is preposterous at this point. It's basically preposterous. And I'm happy to say that because it's just true. It's like talking about flat, you know, the flat earth theory, right? You go like, "Look, I'm not going to discuss this with you. Like, it's possible that the earth is flat." All right, go find some undergraduates and, you know, you talk to them about it, but I'm not going to get into that. And so the idea that there's nothing in the universe, that there's no God, I think it's ridiculous. And so, but that's what atheism puts out, right? There's no God. There's just what we can see and taste and smell and, you know, that there, there's just matter in the universe. That there's no, there is no God behind it. There's just what is, is, and that's it. And so I, I said, "If all there is, uh, if if all there is is matter, then nothing matters." In other words, if all there is is matter, then it means there is no meaning in the universe. There's no love. There's no truth. There's no evil. There's no good. There's nothing. And you might as well kill yourself. You might as well kill a million people. Nothing matters. It means nothing. Whatever you do or doesn't do has no meaning. And that, that follows logically. And people have to be willing to face that. In other words, you could say, "Okay, you don't believe in God, but you understand that that leads you, if you're honest, if you want to play games, you can play games and say, 'I don't believe in God, but I create my own meaning.'" You know, it's like, "Well, no, you can't do that. That's like, you know, printing money in the basement. You don't get to print your own money." Like, there's money, and then there's meaning, and you don't get to create your own. But people often say, like, "Well, I create my own meaning. Just because you say there's no God, I, you know, I believe in being a good person." And it's logically preposterous. So you can say that, but you're being intellectually sloppy. If you say there is no God, then the whole idea of meaning and transcendent truth, beauty, goodness, it just becomes meaningless. And obviously, I write about it in the book. I, uh, hopefully clarify it more. But I think enough time has passed that, you know, maybe you could say you're an atheist in 1955 or something. But I think we've gotten to a point where there's so much evidence for the existence of God, there's so much evidence for the Bible as history, there's so much evidence for the bleakness of atheism, where what it leads people to do or not to do, that I think we, we have to be honest. If you're talking to somebody about, you know, the meaning of life or whether God exists, that if you want to believe that there's only matter and that there's no God in the universe, then you've got to face the fact that nothing matters. Can you face it? And I think most people, if they're really honest, go, "No, I, I can't. It doesn't make sense. Some peop things have to matter. What I do has to matter." So, uh, anyway, that's, uh, it's a great line. Yeah. Yeah. And it's such a great line and it's so insightful. I mean, if Paul was here in Romans chapter one, he said, "If we suppress the the truth of the reality of God, that what results is wrath, which is consequences, which is the consequences of being outside of original design. There's consequence of suppressing truth that leads to breakdown." He would say it leads to a sexual revolution. It leads to a homosexual revolution. It leads to your mind not operating correctly. So, I mean, we are, we are living, would you not agree, in a culture that is increasingly, um, being informed by, yeah, materialism alone? Yeah. Right. Yeah. And it's kind of, it's kind of funny because I think you really do have to bury your head in the sand or you have to, in other words, if you distract yourself, you have to distract yourself because the truth will always come back. It's always by. So you have to just distract yourself with pleasure or something to, to not focus on the reality, because the reality always comes back. And at some point in life, hopefully, it will come back and you, you know, you'll be sick or dying or going through a difficult time, and suddenly you'll be alone, having to like deal with like, "Is there anything? Is it just me?" Or or whatever. But I, I think we live at a time of unprecedented prosperity. And so, in a way, we can distract ourselves more effectively than any other generation in the history of the world. So that's the, that's the downside of our prosperity is that you can distract yourself almost endlessly. But I think God, in His mercy, sometimes, you know, He does get our attention. I mean, I think about my own life. I was, you know, 24 years old and I just got to a place where I, I, I was by God's mercy forced to kind of deal with with Him, you know, like I didn't have my friends or I didn't have something like that. But I, I think that ultimately, uh, you know, God is kind of, because He created reality, He kind of stacked the deck, right? Like there's no way around reality. So you can kind of distract yourself, just like that. But at some point, we, we have to look at it. And when you look at it, you know, uh, it's kind of it. But I, I think it becomes clear if you're, again, if you're honest. But I think there's some people, maybe because they're wounded or something, they, they can't be honest. It's too painful to deal with God or something like, for some reason, I don't know.

So, can I ask you, do you see this that in a, in a materialistic worldview, so in other words, "In the beginning, nothing except mindless nature." You know, so "In the beginning, nothing." And we are really nothing. We're headed nowhere. We talked about this before, um, that what ends up happening is that that man is left to define the meaning of life, which there is no authoritative meaning because he's making it up as he goes. So he ends up like becoming God, like he began. And that, and that's, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, and can I say, I mean, because you interview all the, you, you know, so many bright individuals and Socrates of the city in New York and everything. I've been, I've been benefited by so much. And thank you, Eric, for that. But, you know, there's, there's now, there's talk about transhumanism. Yeah. You know, and, uh, even like the, like the chief mentor behind Klaus Schwab, who is the president of the World Economic, what's the Aramaic for jackass? I'm always curious because I like language. I like different languages. If anybody knows, let me know. In Italian, it would be "ciuccio." And, you know, what, uh, actually, thank you very much. I mean, I can't say that. But I actually find some, yeah, you're a pastor. You can't say. Yeah, I can't say. That's not about that. I don't care. That's why I didn't get ordained, so I could say that stuff. Yeah. I mean, Yuval Harari, this Israeli, actually, that, you know, is influencing, uh, Klaus Schwab in such a big way. I mean, he's a transhumanist. So he actually believes in the integration of technology and biology. And, um, and what does that, what does that even mean? You realize, like, they're playing head games, because what does that mean? Like, my glasses are technology, right? Yeah. So this is transhumanism. So what, like, what is it? What, what can you, I mean, at the end of the day, this is, you know, there is no escaping God's reality. Exactly. So they're playing games. Even when they talk about artificial intelligence, what are you talking about? We human beings created artificial intelligence. There's no artificial intelligence. It's just an extension of us. That's all it is. So it's just technology. So it's kind of amazing. But we did it. So the idea that like robots are going to take over, so it's just stupid. And but, but they're people who, they don't think it through and they kind of act like, you know, so, so the idea that human beings can become some other thing, like, good luck. You know, I'll see you later. But like, I don't believe that's good. I just don't. It just seems, I think they're playing games. They have too much money and too much free time. Yeah. Awesome. I love that. Yeah.

Hey, let's talk about Dietrich Bonhoeffer now. I just put this together. This has a little pixelation in that graphic there, but Eric Mataxis, Bonhoeffer, Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy. And, um, 1933, Hitler rises in power, along with his venomous anti-Semitism. And not long after, of course, Jewish businesses are shut down. And, uh, Bonhoeffer, and you make this so clear, and thank you for it, Eric, um, I mean, he's like one of the early voices to defend the Jews. Yeah. It's because he talked to us a little bit about that. I mean, I, I don't want to say he had his theology right in so many ways, because he understood Romans 9, 10, 11. I could just speak as a pastor and in the aligning with the word of God, because he, he knew ultimately that Israel would be, would be saved in the Messiah of Israel, and that is, and that the nation of Israel will live for full potential on planet Earth. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. But for him to stand up for the Jews earlier and to understand the nature of the evil of Hitler, could you help us understand? Yeah. Well, it's kind of like, you know, when people talk about who's a prophet, right? They're different kinds of prophets, but, but any time you're seeing truth and speaking God's truth, that's prophetic, basically. And they're different kinds. You know, they're people that hear from God and they speak it out. And they, but this was a case of somebody who was able to see some things that other people couldn't. And it was for some natural reasons. I mean, he was raised in a wealthy family, very well-connected family, very prosperous family, so he had access to some stuff that your average German just didn't. So he could see this stuff. And also, he was, as a Christian, this is where it's interesting, right? Is that his Christianity from the beginning was, um, beyond just the Lutheran Church or just beyond the German Lutheran Church. He was able to see the body of Christ in the Catholic Church when he visited Rome. He was able to see past the normal, you know. And so Germans kind of got, you know, and this happens to all of us, like you kind of get trapped in your little world, basically. But Bonhoeffer could see past it and he could see, um, that ultimately, you know, your, let's put it this way, in the '30s and before that, there were a couple of trends, right? And it's very easy for us to say, like, "Oh, anti-Semitism, that's bad. Racism, that's bad." Well, in 1920, very few people knew that. They were kind of like, "No, why is it bad? Like, I don't, I don't understand why it's bad. Like, this is my tribe. This is my thing. Like, why is that bad?" They also believed in evolution. And so Darwinism and evolution would say, like, maybe certain groups are more evolved than other groups. So why would it be bad to say that group is better and my group is better because we're more evolved? It's based on science, right? We know that Darwinian evolution is baloney, but a lot of people don't know that today. But in those days, if you followed the connect the dots, you'd say, "Well, why would racism or tribalism or saying that my group is the best, why would that be wrong?" Now, it's interesting because if you believe in that kind of science, it's not wrong. If you believe in the word of God, it is wrong. So Bonhoeffer was able to say, "According to what we believe as Christians, these ideas are wrong." So he maybe couldn't refute the science, but he said, "Well, look, the God of scripture defines for me what is right and what is wrong. And according to Him, we're all equal in His sight." So I know that because I believe in the word of God. But there are people who often, they hold contradictory views. So there were Christians who didn't get that. They were kind of like, "No, I can be a racist German and believe in the Bible and be a Christian." He was like, "No, you can't." And so he kind of did the work in it to point them and to say, "If you are a Christian, you cannot demonize the Jews or demonize this group or exalt that group or whatever. We are all equal in God's sight." And it's kind of interesting because of his place in society, because he was in, in a kind of an exalted family, they had many Jewish friends or secular friends, so he kind of had the opportunity, in a way, he was cosmopolitan enough that he could see this and and feel it a little bit. So when Hitler comes, you know, into power and these anti-Semitic ideas are being thrown around, it's frankly, it's a lot. It's very similar to some of the garbage that we're hearing now, right? Like when you're talking about systemic racism and how whites are uniquely guilty. It all kind of, you could see how if you don't really know clearly certain things, you get sucked into that. You go like, "Yeah, yeah, I get that. There's something there. There's something there." Well, ultimately, there's not something there. And you have to be very careful because not only is that something there, but it leads to some really nasty stuff. And Bonhoeffer could see that. He could see, like, "You don't see where this is leading. Let me explain to you where these ideas are leading. These are the ideas that are leading the church, uh, to a bad place." I mean, actually, it really boiled down to this. It boils down to this for us today. The Bible says we're all equal in God's eyes, period. And God cares about your heart. He cares about your faith. He doesn't care about your ethnic identity or the color of your skin or whatever it is. He cares about your heart, your character, your relationship with Him. That's what He cares about. And so Bonhoeffer was living at a time where the Nazis and many Germans were saying, "Okay, uh, we just want to be a German nation and we don't want any Jews." Okay? And he's saying, "Okay, that, that's fine, except the problem is, if I'm a Christian, I can't do that. If I'm a Christian, if a Jewish person comes to believe in Jesus Christ, they're, they're a member of the church. In the church, I can't divide people ethnically. In the church, it's only about your faith in Jesus." And the Nazi says, "No, we don't want any Jews in, uh, the German government. We don't want any Jews in the Lutheran Church." They were dividing things along ethnic, genetic lines. And Bonhoeffer says, "As Christians, we cannot do this." So this was really the pinch point where, where you start realizing you have to choose what you believe. If you believe the Bible, if you believe, you say, "I'm a Christian," you can't do that. And so this was, he was trying to get the church at the time to see this, trying to get them to wake up and say, "Like, look, look, look, you cannot have this both ways. You, you have to, if you believe in the word of God, if you're a Christian, you, look, you have to look at it God's way. And what the Nazis are doing is, is saying that to look at it this way." And I, the reason I find all this funny is that here we are, all these years later, and we have similar stuff going on. And if you say to somebody who is, who does not believe in the Bible, okay, you say to them, "You think racism is wrong?" Now they'll go, "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's wrong, right?" You say, "Okay, good. I agree. In why words, if you believe that there's only matter, there's no God, we evolved out of primordial soup, and and evolved into these different groups, why couldn't some groups be better? Because you basically are saying that you're saying that evolution took these different paths. So why would racism be wrong?" I know why it's wrong because I'm a Christian. Why do you say it's wrong? Science doesn't have an answer. They will sputter and they'll get angry that they even asked it because it's embarrassing. They'll say, "What are you? How dare you?" Well, I just dared you. You don't have an answer. I take it, right? They have no answer. So Bonhoeffer was living in a time where these ultimately racist ideas, these quote unquote scientific, fake scientific ideas were popular. But as a believer, he had the ability intellectually and because of his family and stuff to kind of see through it before anybody else. That was the key. And so he's trying to get the rest of the church to see this, that the church in Germany can have no part in this racial worldview. If you want to do it, great. But we're Christians. We can't do it. And that was this dividing line. Because the question is, and it's the same thing today, how far are you willing to go? How unpopular are you willing to be? How canceled are you willing to be for speaking the truth? Bonhoeffer saw that many in the church were very happy to go with the flow, keep their job, keep out of trouble, whatever. If I have to lie a little bit or not look at that or not look at this, or let some other group suffer. So it's kind of interesting. There's nothing new under the sun.

So he spearheaded the Confessing Church, right? Which, um, their view was, "We repudiate." And does this have something to do with what you were just saying, right? I mean, he tried to spearhead, um, along with Karl Barth and Martin, yeah, yeah. Um, that they're the believer's allegiance is first to Jesus. "We repudiate the false teachings that the church can and must recognize yet other happenings and powers, personalities, and truths as divine revelation alongside this one word of God." So he was a revelationist. He believed in the authority of scripture. I mean, Jesus said, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." I mean, if you hear, like, for the first time, or maybe you're a seeker, a new believer, the Bible speaks of the scriptures, or the, the word of God, as the writings. The Bible speaks of the word of God as God in human form. Jesus is the Logos. He's the Word, the perfect representation of God in human form. The Bible also speaks of the word of God as speaking the truth of God's word. So, do I understand it correctly, Eric, that, I mean, what the lens that, um, Bonhoeffer was looking through, that that gave him the North Star, the right direction, was scripture? That he believed from Genesis to Revelation that it was God-breathed, that it was authoritative? Yeah. Backed up by the, by the Word of Jesus Christ. And I think we all have to be honest. This is why, you know, it's good to ask somebody who says they're an atheist or whatever, like, you know, "So, you say racism is wrong?" And they'll be very quick, "Oh, of course. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah." Say, "Yeah, well, then tell me why." Because I know that historically, it's really only the Bible, if you want to be honest, what led to the abolitionist movement in England and the United States? The Bible, period. Now, people like, "Well, I don't like that." Well, that's tough, because that's historically accurate. That is the reality. What led to the Civil Rights Movement? The Bible. The churches. It's this weird reality called the Church of Jesus Christ that points people away from racism and tribalism and stuff. So Bonhoeffer was was living at a time where, you know, today everybody says, "Oh, yeah, racism is wrong." In his day, everybody was saying just the opposite. Like, "Hey, racism is right." Like, you know, the crowd, you want to go with the crowd, they all were saying it's right. He says, "Well, as a Christian, I'm obliged to say, no, we cannot go down this path." But where it's also interesting is that because we're talking about the Jews, Bonhoeffer had this ability to say, not only is racism and tribalism wrong, but in the particular case of the Jews, which the Nazis are trying to demonize, he's saying, "These are the people of God. Jesus was a Jew." He even wrote a book. I mean, the Nazis were just, you know, hated him and tried to, in 1940, this is like very far along, he wrote a book on the Psalms. This is like to poke a sharp stick in the eye of the Nazis because the Psalms of the Old Testament. He wrote a book on the Psalms because the Nazis were kind of acting like, "Well, the New Testament's a little too Jewish." By the way, it is very Jewish, right? Of course. And they said they were kind of trying to focus, like, "Let's focus on the New Testament. Let's like reinvent Christianity and kind of keep the Jews out." And he was like, "Well, no. Jews as well." What's that? The New Testament penned by Jesus? Yeah, obviously, right? So, so the whole thing is is kind of funny that. So he then writes a book about the Psalms in 1940, very late, and he calls it "The Prayer Book of the Bible." And he makes it very clear that without the Jews, we have no Christian faith. There's no such thing as a, a non-Jewish Christian faith. It just, you just can't have that. And Jesus was a Jew. And whatever. So he, he went even farther and to say that we have this unique relationship with the Jews. It's not avoidable. It's not escapable. And, um, when Kristallnacht happened, some of you know, I guess, was '38, where they were, you know, looting, uh, and burning synagogues and horrible, horrible stuff. In his Bible, he marked where it says that they're, they're, they're burning the, the synagogues, the houses of God, or whatever. Unless he was linking the destruction of the synagogues in the, uh, in the Psalms to what was happening in Germany at the time. So that was a really bold thing. Even for many like Christian pastors, they're like, you know, "No, we're not, we're not Jews. We're Christians." And he's like, "Well, God sees it's, it's a little bit, uh, it's a little bit less, uh, black and white than that. That these are God's people. They've been persecuted. Then they're being persecuted now." So he had, he had this. Gets to the issue. He had the courage to see these things and to say these things and to try to push others to see these things. Uh, and some did, but most did not. I'm so proud of them. You know, some have said that Luther was phenomenal Romans, uh, chapter one through chapter eight. And I thank God for Martin Luther. And of course, he was in process, like we all are. But not so good in chapter 9, 10, and 11, where Paul is clearly building out that the Lord is not finished with Israel. And that one day, the nation of Israel, we talk about all the time here at Rise. We're talking about this morning. One day, the nation of Israel lives her full potential. Jesus said, "Lest you say, blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, you won't see me." But there's a generation of our Jewish friends that, in fact, that will take place. And they look upon Him whom they pierced. And Israel, as a nation, and our Jewish friends live their potential in the kingdom here on planet Earth. What I just so appreciate Bonhoeffer, and thank you for bringing him to our generation, Eric, is I think this guy totally got it. Totally got it. Like, if you don't unders, if you don't get Israel, to be honest with you, understand that there's a genius plan that's unfolding from eternity past to eternal future, in and through Israel, and the divided King, and Jesus is a Jew, and He's the, He is the Davidic King, but He's the Savior of the world. And we're invited into this. I think, you know, we need to get that right. And Bonhoeffer got it right.

Can I go, getting back to like, so he stands up, he actually rescued Jews, right? Was he arrested for rescuing Jews? Um, basically, no. He was not arrested for for rescue, actually. No. Well, I mean, I've literally forgotten half of what I wrote, so I have to stop for a second and think about it. You're actually right that what happened was they were trying to get some Jews out of Germany. This is the Confessing Church, you know, the good guys. And there was some money transaction that happened, and the Gestapo kind of found this and was like, "Hey, wait a second, what's going on here?" So he was arrested for that. I've literally forgotten this. I can't believe this. Thank you. Thank you for reading my book. Um, but, but that's why he was, he was arrested. And so he was, um, you know, he was, he was behind bars. And then eventually they discovered that he'd gotten involved in the plot to kill Hitler. Oops. And, um, so it's kind of, it's sort of, it's a little complicated. But you're quite right that there were, uh, a number of Jews in the Confessing Church. These are Jews who believed in Jesus. And the Nazis were like, "Well, we don't care if you're a Jew, you're a Jew. You're a Jew. That's all we care about is your, you know, your bloodline, your ethnicity." And so they were trying to get these friends of theirs, you know, out of out of Germany. And so that, that was kind of what, you know, got him, uh, arrested. So, yeah. And, you know, there are some here that are hearing about Dietrich Bonhoeffer for their first time. And, and, uh, we're, I mentioned them this morning in our message. And of course, you'd be here. And some have have come here tonight and they're excited to hear about Dietrich. I mean, your book, "Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Okay, Prophet, Spy," right? So, so he, Eric, build out a little bit more of his story. So he's, he understands Hitler for who he is. I mean, like Socrates said, "Speak that I might see you." It was, it was clear who Hitler was, not only from his pen, but his, his words. And, I thank God that he's, that he sniffed them out very early, took a courageous stand, you're saying, inspired by the word of God, the genius plan of the Lord God of Israel, understands God's calling on Israel, but it's also he's standing for Jews because it's just flat obviously unjust, right? This is terrible injustice. Yeah. Right. And, um, so let me just, let me go back. And I, oh, Eric, I'm sure you'll remember this, but my understanding is is that he was a part of getting, part of rescuing Jews. Yeah. He was a part of that, right? Yeah. I'm just wondering, I mean, um, has there been any talk about, you know, there's like the, what is it, in the, Righteous, oh man, this is a whole story. There was a rabbi mentioned in my book, or Stephen Wise. He was in New York, of course. Most of us, you know, we wouldn't say "of course" to that, but he was a, he was a rabbi who was friendly with Roosevelt. And at the time, he was trying to get attention, Roosevelt's attention on some stuff. While I was writing the Bonhoeffer book in 2008 or '09, or maybe by then it was '10, I don't know, but, I get, an email from Stephen Wise, who is the grandson of that guy, a rabbi. And I met him, and he came to my first talk on Bonhoeffer, which was April 9th, 2010. And he came, he was an old man then, and he was trying like crazy to get Bonhoeffer into Yad Vashem because Stephen Wise was a Jew who believed Bonhoeffer should be in Yad Vashem. And Yad Vashem never let Bonhoeffer in. At the end of the day, I kind of say, "Who cares?" Because, you know, Bonhoeffer is, is in glory. But it is interesting that for some reason, I don't know why, but he was not, uh, he was not officially made a member of the, you know, the Righteous Gentiles in Yad Vashem. But, yeah, it's, uh, it's interesting you bring that up. I've forgotten, as I say, so much of this, but it's, yeah. Well, I think he should be. I mean, I think he should be. Well, of course, he should be. Of course, he should be. Yeah.

Um, now he wrote a book about discipleship, and I'd love your comments on this, because you talk about writing something that just blows cruise ship Christianity out of the water. So, let me read a little bit of something. Easy. Now, we don't want to offend any cruise ship Christians that are here. Yeah. You know, if you have a kind of a shallow, attenuated faith, that's fine with us. We don't care. No, we don't care. Any hypocrites, come on. No, no. It is funny because that book, it's called "The Cost of Discipleship." In German, it's just "Nachfolge," which is just discipleship. But the English translation is "The Cost of Discipleship." And that book is, it's kind of weird because I was just saying that I'm just literally now, like tomorrow, and I'm working on a new, very short book called "A Letter to the American Church." And it really takes its kids. Isn't that exciting? That's exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Exciting. No, I want them to feel free to clap. That's why. I know. It is. It is, uh, I am excited. But, but, um, Bonhoeffer just nails it. I mean, here you have him writing this book in, I guess what is it, '34, '35, or something like that? And it's basically talking to the Lutheran Church of the day and saying, in a sense, you're, you're not living out your faith. To live out your faith means to count the cost, to die to self. And he talks about the issue of grace, because you could see how a lot of Lutherans would have this idea that, "Yeah, Luther was the one that comes up with this idea of grace, and we're German, we're Lutherans, and so it's all about grace." And, you know, and he was trying to say, like, "That's cheap grace." If you understand that the Lord of glory had to die a torture death to buy your soul, that grace cost everything. And so if you kind of take it lightly, yeah, we're under grace, man. It's great. Recovered. It's like, you're not getting it. You make it very clear. You don't understand grace. And therefore, you don't have the faith required to be a Christian. And to to say that I'm covered, you're not covered. You should fear hell if that's your attitude of grace. And Bonhoeffer just, I mean, it's prophetic and it just, it nails it. It's just, it's it's amazing. And actually, I guess about five years ago, four years ago, they're coming out with a new edition of Bonhoeffer's book. I mean, it's just an amazing book. It's called "The Cost of Discipleship." Right? They're coming out with the new edition. And they asked me, you talk about being humbled. They asked me to write the forward to this new edition of it. And I feel like, I feel, yeah, I feel. But, I mean, if you've ever felt genuinely unworthy, like, "I don't want my name to be on a cover of a book by Bonhoeffer." Like, it's, I just, he gave his life for, you know. But, um, obviously, I wrote an essay, you know, that that talks about, um, that talks about the book, uh, and about his life. So now, if you get a copy of "Cost of Discipleship," almost certainly it has, it has the forward by me, because I feel like it's unquestionably one of the greatest books ever written. And if you're a Christian, you should, you know.

Well, let me quote from it, please. Let me quote from it. Yeah. Yeah. And I'd love to talk a little bit about and draw out some ideas from you, Eric. I mean, he said, "Cheap grace." And by the way, if you're like, new to the Bible's record, new to Christianity, grace means, uh, it's a gift. This refers to a gift, an un, it's unmerited favor. Um, and it could be said that on the cross, well, actually, you could say this. You could break down the term grace, G-R-A-C-E, as God's Riches At Christ's Expense. So it could be said on the cross, He paid our, our ticket to heaven. I like to say it that way. But He paid the debt of our sin. He accomplished, uh, what is necessary for us to live, uh, and have victory over sin. Um, He bore our sin. He, he was treated as if He committed every stinking sin in human history, from the killing fields, the Holocaust, rapes, and murders. Um, you know, I think on the cross, when He said, "My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?" He's quoting scripture, Psalm 22. It's a question. If you go back and read Psalm 22, it's actually an incredible description of the crucifixion. He knew the answer to that question, kind of like a good rabbi. He's asking a question, He knew the answer. Why He was being forsaken? He was being forsaken so we wouldn't have to be forsaken. Right? So, I mean, and, and look, there's no hope for us without this unmerited favor. It's a gift that Jesus, uh, in His death, burial, and resurrection, uh, accomplished for us so that we can receive it by faith. It is given freely, okay? But it, but it should transform our lives. And that's what we want to get to. And that's what you were referring to, cheap grace. He said, "is preaching forgiveness without requiring." Okay. So, uh, Eric, um, I'd love to hear you on this. Israel. But I mean, the Greek word is *metanoia*. It means to change the way you think, that leads into a lifestyle change. By the way, let's make sure none of us leave here tonight, seriously, having not turned from any form of compromise in our life. Let's all leave here just rightly aligned with the Lord. Can I hear a big amen to that?

Mean, God help us all! Let's do it. Let's do that. Your thoughts?

I mean, cheap grace is preaching for... I mean, you wrote the forward, right, to this book? I mean, right? Evidence. Yeah. Without requiring repentance. He said, "Baptize them without churches and communion without confession." Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ living and incarnate.

Yeah. Well, I mean, it would be like if, if somebody killed, uh, your spouse or your child, right? And you forgave them, right? You realize what a big deal that is. What a big deal that is. What that takes. What that would take. Contrasting that, praying, you know, for the soul of somebody who did something like that to someone you love. That means that you understand who you are with regard to God. You realize He forgave me evil things that I've done that I'm not even equipped to face. That I am a sinner. That I don't deserve heaven right now. There's one.

So, to be able to forgive is a big deal. So, imagine if instead of really coming to terms with, with what it means to forgive somebody that's done, somebody that's done something really horrifying, what that takes. Imagine if you just simply said, like, "Oh, like, you, you killed my daughter? Really? Ah, let it go. It's fine. I'm good." People say, "That guy's insane. He has no clue what his w—" You can't say that. You obviously don't understand what you're saying. You, you're to forgive something like that is a huge deal. It's wrenching. It's beautiful. It's, it's, it's, it's amazing. But imagine somebody just goes, "No, it's covered. It's fine. No, no problem. No." You'd say, like, "You, you don't get it. You don't get to say it's no problem. It's a huge problem." And if you don't understand that, then how can you even say, "I forgive," or ever? You don't even understand what forgiveness is.

So, when we say that, when it comes to what Jesus did on the cross, to comprehend that God sent His Son to become a human being, to be tortured and murdered, you don't say, like, "Oh, great. So my sins are covered. Cool. Awesome." You, you're like, "What? That's horrifying. That is, it's painful for me to comprehend." And, and God is saying, "No, I did this for you. You can't get around it. I did it for you." And you, so there's a debt that you just feel like, "Lord, I'm, I'm unworthy. I can't bear it." And He says, "Well, I will give you strength to bear it. But I want you to live your life dealing with the fact that I loved you that much, that I paid your debt." And that's what it cost. Watching my Son suffer unspeakable things. And it, if you get it, you don't take it lightly. You can't take it lightly.

And Bonhoeffer said the church in Germany at the time is taking this issue of grace like it's nothing. They're acting like, "Yeah, it's grace. It's great." And he's like, "You don't understand. That's cheap grace. Grace cost God everything." And if you get that, it's going to change your life. And if it doesn't change your life, you didn't get it. So don't say you got it if it didn't change your life. And so that speaks to all of us today. Is God's sacrifice of His Son, if you understand the horror of that, it's going to, it's going to make you want to change your life. And if it doesn't, you didn't get it.

So, you could say, "Well, I get it. I go to church. You know, I believe. I say I believe that." Well, well, God knows if you really believe it. If you really believe it, you're going to act differently. And if you're not acting differently, you don't believe it. You could say you believe it, but you know it. You, you clearly don't. So that's, that was a big issue for Bonhoeffer. This, the German church acts like, you know, "Well, we say we believe these things." He's like, "Don't tell me what you, you say you believe. You're gonna show me what you believe by how you live." And that, that's, I think, where the church is today. There are a lot of people that they don't, uh, they, they take the whole thing so lightly that it's kind of obvious that they don't, they don't get this. You don't understand what He did for you by dying for you. Not for humanity, for you. And so if it doesn't change you or make you want to change, you didn't get it. And if you didn't get it, that's a problem.

You know, let's pray. We're not done, but I want to pray real quick. Lord, help us with that. And we ask You to search our hearts and minds, just like David wrote. See if there is any waste or breakdown, any, any sin, any compromise in our life, any foothold that could lead to a stronghold. And You've said in Your word, Lord, I mean, a thousand years is like a day to You. So, just, you know, You lifted up, Lord Jesus, on the cross on that Passover, which we're going to be celebrating in a few weeks. Lord, we, we, we, we're in awe of You. We love You. We adore You. We'll never forget You. And we pray that this would be a season, all of our lives, just like no compromise. We'd be overwhelmed with the greatness of who You are. We'd fear You, uh, overwhelmed with who You are, uh, trembling with awe of who You are. And, um, Lord, You've taught in principle that church pure is the church powerful. And, um, and just, would You help me? Would You help Eric? Would You help all of us here that we'd be rightly aligned with You? That in our hearts, any compromise would be turned from, repented of, and You would be honored. And as a result, Lord, the Holy Spirit, therefore, would not be quenched and work into our lives powerfully to be a part of the solution in shalom in this generation. I ask these things in Jesus' name. And everyone who agreed said, amen.

You know, so, I mean, you're here. You're writing a book. I can't wait to read it, Eric. Um, I can't wait to write it. Yeah. Right on. Well, it's, go— I was going to say, I wouldn't, I mean, I could wait. I could wait. Can you tell us to write it? Otherwise, you mentioned you might be starting to write it tomorrow. Well, I've, I've started, but, uh, I mean, it's supposed to rain tomorrow. Were you like serious? Like, you might just end up writing it right tomorrow? Not the whole time. I don't think I'm gonna be able to knock out the book tomorrow. No, no, no. I know. Just, yeah. But I appreciate your confidence in me. Yeah. Yeah. Can I come over and watch you do it? I think I'll skip lunch and, you know, get the whole thing done. Yeah, just get all day done. Um, no, I, uh, Eric, what comes to mind? You're gonna write a book, "Letters to the Church Today." I mean, so many ways. Bonhoeffer did that. Well, that's, I mean, it's kind of funny because that's, it's a similar thing. It's, it's a word, you know, where you're trying to, uh, speak to the church where it is and and say, "You, you know," um, "It's, it's in other words, where it is. We're not okay. We need to repent. We need to, we need to see some things." And you, you talked about, you know, cruise ship Christianity. I mean, I have to say, one of the things I want to say in the book, which we've been talking about, is that, you know, the idea that people are like, in Bible studies, let's say, right? You realize, what's the point of that? The point of that is not to know the word of God. The point of knowing the word of God is so that you will live the word of God. If you know the word of God and you don't live it out, no, like, I'd rather not know it, to be honest, than to know it and not live it. So, if knowing the Bible doesn't lead to obedience and to greater love of God, that I want to, I want to live more for Him and in obedience to Him. So, when the going gets tough, I'd be like, "I don't care because I'm going to do what God wants me to do." If you're not living like that, if it's just kind of all head knowledge, it's like, you know, taking communion lightly or doing anything. You just think, "Don't, don't do that." Like, it's really, there is no point in going to Bible study if you're not willing to live out what you're learning. And if you're going to a Bible study where you're not actually learning anything that affects how you live, don't go to that Bible study. Yeah.

So, do you see an awakening taking place among the church? An awakening of recommitment? And I do believe because, because of what we've been going through as a country in the last few years, I, I do see that. In other words, I think that God, in His mercy, has allowed things to get so horrible that it has woken some people up who were sleeping. And they realized, like, if you do not fight, if you don't wake up to the reality of who God is and what He expects of us, like, cultural Marxism is gonna destroy the nation. It's gonna destroy everything that we thought was like normal. You're gonna see, it's not normal. It's going away real quick. If you don't stand and fight. And if you don't understand that people died for our freedoms, and these freedoms, and all this stuff is ultimately based on a biblical view. The founders did not just like come up with some, you know, uh, it's not like the French Enlightenment. This is like biblically based thinking. And, and I really think that things have to get really bad before a lot of people finally woke up. And it's like, "Oh, okay. I think maybe I better run for the school board. Maybe I better vote next time." What do you think? Yeah, maybe next time I'll vote. Yeah. Do I get to vote for governor? Whoa. Really? Yeah. I'm going to take that seriously because if the governor is a big jerk, it's going to affect my life. You know, not that that would ever happen. But yeah. But I think that a lot of people kind of like, "Ah, whatever, whatever." And you're realizing, "No, not whatever. I'm gonna have to take these things seriously." And, and my children, and my grandchildren, they're gonna be, I'll be affected by how I live my life. And so I think it has driven people to God. And it's driven people to, I mean, I think there are also a lot of people that are, uh, they are maybe they're just patriots and they see everything falling apart. And I think that in the midst of that, they're they're turning to God because they're realizing it's so, things are so bad that I see some Christians acting in a heroic way. And, and that, I think, is leading people to take God more seriously, to see that really at the bottom of everything that's going on is a spiritual battle. At the end of the day, there's a, a cultural Marxist atheist view of the world that says, "Big government, and what, you know, we're gonna be God." And there's another view that says, "No, God's gonna be God, and we the people are gonna bow to His authority, and we're gonna govern ourselves." And I really think that there's been a, a sifting where it's become clearer and clearer these two views. And so, I, I do see revival, frankly, coming out of it. Yeah.

I do too. And I have to tell you, Eric, I am so honored to pastor this church because there are extraordinary members in this church that rose amidst the the shaking that took place in COVID, which, you know, there's COVID, but then there's also like these stinking Trojan horses like Marxism and lawlessness and things and atheism. But I just want to say to all the church family here of Rice, I love you and I'm so proud of you. You guys have demonstrated courage. And, so I just wanted to say that. Yep. I thank God for it.

I want to, I want to go back to Bonhoeffer just real quick. So, are you implying that the church, the German church, was just, they, they were rather than esteeming the obviously the authority of the word of God, their their view of the scriptures was not what it needed to be? In other words, were they? Well, yeah, yeah. We're for sure. Yeah. Turning away from this, the authority of. But I mean, getting away from the Bible. But, yeah, that's exactly where the American church is. In other words, how is it possible that tons of American evangelicals, okay, would allow a critical race theory to enter their churches? Like, you think, do they do they understand that this is against everything in the scripture? And that you're being played? You're a sucker because, you know, you've got some, some white guilt or something like that, and you're allowing that to suck you over into agreeing with Marxists who, trust me, couldn't care less about black people, in case you actually wanted to know. If they really care, they don't care. They're destroying everything that would help people in America, poor people, every color, whatever. They're destroying it. But Christians have clearly not in this church, and not in the churches that have been inviting me, but there's a lot of churches out there that they just open the door like, "Yeah, come on in. And we'll, we'll hear your, your views. We'll hear your views on, you know, maybe, maybe homosexuality is something we need to take another look at." Or maybe you think, "Like, wait a minute, wait a minute. We have always loved the sinner. We've always looked because we are sinners, every single one of us is a sinner. But that doesn't mean that we're going to change our views of reality and of what God says." Whatever. But the American church, big chunks of it, are for whatever reason, and it's never for a good reason, but they've got reasons. They're opening themselves up and opening up their congregations to hear pernicious, horrible ideas, harmful ideas because they don't have the courage to stand against it. Because they're more afraid of being called a racist or called a homophobe or called whatever name than they are having a fear of God and doing what is right. And saying, "People can call me what they want. I'm going to do what I think is right." Because if you do what is right and you do what God calls you to do when it's uncomfortable, guess what? You're gonna actually bless people. If people are struggling with sexual identity or sexual, uh, attraction or or whatever it is, you're gonna bless those people if you speak the truth. So, it's not a choice. I mean, it's, if you obey God, you will bless people. So, God is not asking us to not bless people. He's asking us to do the right thing, and He's going to bless people. But there are a lot of people that haven't had the courage. There are a lot of people that have said, "Well, I don't, I don't want to be accused of this or accused of that." They're more worried about that than they are about the actual people who are there hurting. So, as I say, if you care about people of color, you care about poor people, you care about people struggling with sexual this or identity or whatever, if you actually care about those people, you will stand for what God says, even when the culture is telling you, "Shut up. You're a bad person." Whatever. You'll say, "Well, I don't care. People died for their faith. So, you're calling me names? Okay. Maybe you'll kill me. I believe Jesus actually defeated death on the cross. So, I don't even fear death. I fear God." That's right.

And, you know, love that. I think one of the things I thought would be good, Eric, is talk a little bit about the ground floor of the Jesus movement. Really to go back to Jerusalem and to ask the question, what was informing the original followers of Jesus? One of the things that that goes under the radar screen, and we're just talking about with the guys in our church on a prayer meeting, is actually the ascension of Jesus. I mean, of course, of course, He gave His life on Passover on Nisan 14, very, very important. He resurrected on First Fruits, which is Nisan 17. 50 days later, you have Pentecost, Shavuot, you know. But 40 days after the resurrection, He ascended to heaven. And this had a profound impact upon the these Jewish followers of Jesus, staunch monotheists. The Lord of God, the Lord is One. But they go back to Jerusalem convinced, oh my goodness, convinced, of course, Jesus is the King. God is One. He's triune in nature. And I am convinced. I just wanted to, I wanted to just read something too. And if it triggers something, I'd love to hear from you, Eric. And that is, I'm convinced that the ascension and Isaiah's vision of God, of the King, actually explain each other. So, in other words, if you want to get in the minds of our brothers and sisters 2,000 years ago, what informed their thinking? Because like, who we are is who we were, and who we were is who we are. And Bonhoeffer was a genuine believer. Um, and I trust everyone in this room is. But I just want to get to this point here. Isaiah has a vision of ultimate reality. He sees the King. He's so moved by this. He has an accurate view of himself. "For my eyes have seen the the Lord, the King, the Lord of Hosts." And one of the seraphim flew to me, and it says, "He touched my mouth." And he said, "Behold, this has touched your lips. Your iniquity is taken away, and your sin purged." And I heard a voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" Okay, God is triune nature, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. And then I said, "Here I am, send me." Before he even knows what the assignment is, because he has seen ultimate reality. Saying, "Truth, there's a King. There's a sovereign over the universe. There's truth. He's created by God." That he just says, "Look, I mean, I'm available." I mean, God's not so much looking for ability, but availability, right? So, it's not just available, but it gets to what you were just saying. And that is, he was willing to do what is right because it is right. Right? And that's what was in that informing him. And going back to the ascension is that the earl— the disciples, I'm convinced they had a similar vision. Now, Jesus is at the right hand. He's the King, man. The Messiah is much bigger than we thought. We thought He's going to establish the kingdom that on planet Earth and He's going to. But the Messiah is actually the Lord, the Lord. He's, He's, He's the Messiah is the God-man, the Son of God, God the Son. And, and they were just willing, okay, we're going to step into this. We're going to obey God. And that's, that's our first allegiance. And, um, I think, obviously, Bonhoeffer was caught, uh, his heart was captured by that reality as well. And, um, so, what is my question? I don't even know what my question is.

No, you, you, I, I just take it from you. I want to say that, you know, uh, I, I go around all these churches and I, and I speak, which means I don't get to hear this kind of teaching. This is really awesome. This, what you're saying here, this is important stuff. First of all, I, I want to affirm it. I think it's, I think you're right. And I think we, I just read a book, I can't remember if I mentioned it to you, but this woman lives in San Diego, New Testament scholar, Greek Orthodox, wrote a book called "The Crucifixion of the King of Glory." And it is so powerful. And it talks about some of the stuff that you've been talking about, makes these connections, and brings you back to that time where you go, "Whoa, like, you know, when you see it afresh, like you're saying, that we forget. They were there. They saw Him ascend into heaven, right? What would that do to you? Yeah, like, come on. They saw it. They didn't read about it. They saw it. It would change everything. It would change your life. You would not fear death. You'd say, 'We saw Jesus defeat death, and then He was with us, and then He ascended into heaven.' I'm not afraid of speaking the truth. I'm not afraid of my neighbors saying, like, 'No, I don't like you.' Yeah, like, they're living a new reality that God has shown them truth. And it really is, it's incredibly powerful. I think, you know, uh, you mentioned, uh, the 14th of the month of Nisan, Passover. I, uh, in this book that I was mentioning, her name is Eugenia Constantinou. She talks about something that I had never seen before. I don't know if you ever, ever saw this. But she said that, uh, that, uh, Abraham sacrificed, or, you know, was about to sacrifice Isaac. It was the same date, okay? And I had never heard that before. So, there's this, there's this incredible, you know, the poetry of of the scripture, how these parallels make us understand more and more deeply what God is doing, right? I mean, the idea that you have Abraham, and Isaac, and then you have the Passover and the lamb, and then Jesus, and how it all fits together. And if you're honest, you just say, "There is zero chance that this is coincidence or that this is made up." It's so powerful. This, this poetry, as you begin to understand it, it, it kind of, it comes to life. And so, what you're talking about with the ascension, you know, related to Isaiah's vision, I mean, this is all through scripture. And the more we understand it, the more it makes us know that God is God. And that Jesus was God. Yeah. That's exactly right.

So, and I have to say, it's, it's really important that that we understand that in 325, the the emperor of Rome, Constantine, actually decreed that the church would not celebrate the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus in the context in which it unfolded. He outlawed actually the celebration of Jesus's death on Passover. Okay? So, like, if you knew the Bible, I'll just make it really quick, like 30 seconds. That is like, you remember Moses and he leads the children of Israel out of Egypt? And the door out of Egypt is covered in lamb's blood. You know, Jesus said, "I am the door." A little different context, but I mean, so the, the door out of enslavement there of the Pharaoh is is covered in lamb's blood. And well, 1300 years later, on the very same day, Jesus has lifted up in Jerusalem on the cross. John had already said that the one who's coming, the Messiah, is the Lamb of God who would take away the sins of the world, right? So, the great Exodus of Moses, uh, leading the children of Israel, was a preview. It was like, it was like a prophecy of the ultimate exodus out of enslavement of humanity, which is a broken relationship with God with huge consequences. Are you guys tracking with me? Now, here's the thing. If we can put it, if we can like, when we receive the next thing, we receive communion, just, just remember that was a Passover Seder. That's celebrating, um, Passover. That's going all the way back to Moses and that great deliverance. And now Jesus is saying, "I want you to be thinking about Me because I'm bringing the exodus out of enslavement." Right? So, this is a plan unfolding in and through Israel, the Messiah, viewed as a Savior and of the world. And the Lord, Bonhoeffer, I'm convinced, got it because he goes back to the scriptures. And the whole scriptures from Genesis to Revelation. And it's important that all of us are in a church that are committed to the scriptures. Can I hear an amen to that? I mean, that's, um, that's really a part of what Eric is saying. But Eric, you know, you had just a beautiful, genuine experience with Jesus Christ. And it speaks to getting back to the ground floor of the Jesus movement. I mean, Jesus said, "I want you to wait in Jerusalem for the Holy Spirit." When He ascended, I mean, ten days later, Peter's like, "A third of his message, he's talking about the meaning of the ascension." And one of the meanings of the ascension is that Jesus sent the Spirit to indwell believers and to equip believers for God's calling in their life. And, um, I just want to ask you, I'm just totally putting you on the spot here, but just, whole, the Holy Spirit. Yeah, that's right. That's not really. But just the Holy Spirit. And we need His strength. Okay? Now, this, we need His strength. This is huge. Yeah. I, I assume everybody's tracking. I mean, think of this. So, Jesus is with them. He's risen from the dead. So, it's like the greatest thing ever. Like, they thought He was killed, and now He was killed, but that now He, so it's the greatest thing ever. But then He says, "I have to leave." And you can imagine people think, "This is a nightmare. You can't leave. We, you died. We had to go through that. And now You rose from the dead and You're here, and You're leaving." And He says, "I have to leave. I have to go to the Father. I have to do this. But I'm going to send you another Comforter. I will leave, but I will send you the Holy Spirit." And the Holy Spirit, who is God, will live inside you. So, you think this is a, you know, "We don't want Jesus to leave." But He's saying, "This is going to be a good trade. Trust me. I'm going to leave, but I'm going to send the Holy Spirit of God down to you to live within you." And wherever you go, if you believe in Me, I will live inside you. It's an amazing thing. And it makes you realize there's a spiritual reality to being a Christian. It's not just an intellectual assent to some ideas. It's a, it's a reality that God says, "I want to live inside you." And if you let Me live inside you, I will change you. I will make you more like Me every day. I will sanctify you by the miraculous power of My Holy Spirit living inside you. And so, every one of us, you know, when you hear about that, that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, like, do you realize how heavy that is? That's right. Wow. So, what you do, what you think, God, God has come to live inside you. That's right. And wants to make you more like Him. I mean, you know, if we think about it, which we should, it will, it will affect us. Yeah.

And, you know, speaking of the ground floor of the Jesus, I mean, you have Jesus speaking to the chief rabbi. I mean, just think of a guy like, graduates from Stanford, Oxford, Harvard type of thing. I mean, like, really bright guy. His name is Nicodemus. He has, he has a school that he leads. Um, and he, and so Jesus tells Nicodemus, "You must be born again." I mean, being born a Jew, nothing to sneeze at. I mean, the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the chosen people. Now, salvation is not of a race, it's of grace that you need to embrace Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. But for him to say, "You got to be born again of the Spirit." I just, Eric's very important what you said. I just want to say to anybody here that Christianity is not just some intellectual sin. The Bible says even Satan believes in God. Okay? So, it's not enough. And I just want you to know, there is a genuine experience you can have with the true and living God. When it takes place, you have the assurance you're His child. You enter a relationship with, with the Father. He's Abba, intimate relationship. And He empowers your life to live the potential that God has created you to know. And I'm just telling you, you can know that God has purposed your life to know that. And we're going to pray before we totally end here tonight. If you would like to embrace Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

You want to add anything to that? Well, I mean, it's just beautiful, just to, you know, hear it and to think about how, how beautiful it is that, you know, the idea that, yeah, like Nicodemus thought, "Well, I'm a born, a Jew, and I'm a, you know, he's an exalted Jew." And Jesus is basically saying, "That's great, but it's worth nothing. You have to be born again." That's right. And it's the same thing that Bonhoeffer, when he's writing "The Cost of Discipleship," he's saying to the Germans, "Like, okay, you're a Lutheran. You're born a German, and you were baptized a Lutheran. You grew up in Lutheran church." He's like, "That's great. It's worth nothing unless you are born again. If you understand what Jesus did, and it's not cheap grace, it's actual that you take in the idea of what He did for you and you give your life to Him, it's going to change everything. You will be born again, and the Spirit of God will come to live inside you." And I think of it this way. When we're born, the first time, right? You're born into this life. Okay? But this life is a living death. You will die, and that's that. And God says, "Okay, but if you're born again, My eternal life will come to live inside you, and you will never die." That's right. And unless My eternal life comes to live inside you, and you accept Jesus by faith, and I come to live inside you by the power of the Holy Spirit, unless you do that, you're just here for a short season. You, you don't, you don't partake of eternal life. And I died so that I could rise from the dead and ascend to the Father and send the Holy Spirit down to live inside you so that you will be born again. You will be born of the Spirit. And you start realizing, "This is beautiful. This is powerful." Really, nothing less is is what God's will is for every one of us. Every one of us.

I love that. You know, I love that. Yes, please clap. [Applause]

You know, we have a little bit more time, but let's talk a little bit about courage now. I want to say this, Eric, because the first time that I saw you, I was watching a video, and there you were telling your story how you came to faith in Jesus Christ. President Barack Obama is to your right, right? And future President Joe Biden was there as well. Nancy Pelosi was there. I was just wish they had really listened to you. You know, anyways. Was anyway. Yeah. So, sorry. Yeah. Um, yeah, so anyways, but there you were at the Presidential Prayer Breakfast. I, I, I was so proud of you because I just think, thank you. You know, testifying of your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Um, I mean, just, uh, as the Lord created us in His image, every human being valuable. There's no sub-human. So, it's like the idea of abortion and trying to justify it is to say, really? I mean, it's so stinking hitlerian. No, it is. It is. Because you're not, group of humans expendable. Your suspendable. Black's expendable. Unborn expendable. Every time some group is expendable, yeah, that's Satan. That's so sick. I'm sorry. So, we have to be honest. He's taking a stand in front of the President, in front of the future President, just, I mean, you know, calling fire down on this on the, the crazy devouring of human life and abortion. And I'm thinking about, I got to get to know this guy. Oh my goodness gracious. So good. Now, let's go back. So, thank you for doing that. Okay. How many of you, how many of you seen that video? Just so people know. Yeah. If you go, and I should have said this at some point, so I'll say it now, but if you just go to my website, just my name, EricMataxis.com, the video is there. And also, you can sign up for my weekly newsletter where I send out all the interviews that I'm doing with some amazing people. I mean, I interviewed Tim Tebow. I interviewed this woman I just mentioned, wrote this book, Eugenia. So, but you have to go to EricMataxis.com. You just interviewed Charlie Kirk. I just need to, I mean, lots of extraordinary people. But as I say, if you go there, the video of this, what you're describing, is right. But you got to go home and watch it tonight. You'll be blessed. You'll get fired up.

Now, let's go back to Bonhoeffer real quick. Let's talk about his courage, right? I mean, um, build out, build out his story. I'll tell you, tell me how his story, his life. It's an interesting thing because Bonhoeffer, and this is important for us as as believers to get right. There are people that are not believers that have courage. Courage is a beautiful thing. And there's a lot of Christians who don't have courage. Bonhoeffer was raised in a family where doing the right thing was the right thing. They were all raised that way. So, even if they didn't have the kind of faith that we have, uh, they were, they really understood that doing the right thing could cost you your life, but you, you would die for the, for the right thing. And I think if non-believers can have that attitude, that "I'm going to die for freedom. I'm going to die for my country. I'm going to die for for my family." We as believers, we don't really have any excuse. We're supposed to believe Jesus defeated death. He defeated death. So, if we believe that, we're going to live dramatically differently. And, and that's really, when you look at the story of Bonhoeffer, he goes to the gallows knowing that he's going to be with the Father. That's right. Now, we're supposed to live like that. Yeah. God doesn't want us to think like, "Oh, who knows what's going to happen when I die?" He's like, "No, I want you to know what's going to happen. You're going to step into My presence, and it'll be infinitely better than anything you could have ever hoped for." And I want you to know that. I want you to live in that. I want you to live with no fear. He died so that we could live with no fear. We could be totally free. But He can't force that on us. It's up to us to say, "Yeah, I really believe that, or I don't know." And Bonhoeffer clearly really believed it. So, at the end of his life, you know, we say, "Well, how did he do that?" He did that because, I mean, I actually think this is true. You know, people say, "Wow, courage." And I think, "Well, if you actually know that Jesus is real, and that He defeated death on the cross, and that when you die, you're going to step in His presence, then you actually don't fear death." So, everybody says, "Well, that looks like courage to me." It just looks like faith in what is true. Yeah. And that's God's will for us. He doesn't want us to gin up courage. He wants us to just know that we cannot fail if we put our trust in Him. We can't fail. There is no way to fail if you put your trust in Him. And He, I really believe He's raising up a body now to live that way. And it's going to change everything if we actually live that out.

I love that. He understood Bonhoeffer. That is, clearly there was darkness at play. There's a darkness behind the darkness. He clearly understood that Hitler was was demonically influenced. And he couldn't just sit back and do nothing, right? So, here you have, you know, this beautiful brother, oh, you know, we're going to be in the kingdom with him. Beautiful brother who feels a sense of calling at 14, which is so different in his family. You could make this clear, but, and, and would you just, for those who are new to to Dietrich's life, yeah, um, you know, rescuing Jews. Oh, I'm so proud of them. You know, speaking out against the compromise of the German church. Was not, it wasn't based on the authority of the word of God. They're thinking racist. They're not allowing Jews in the church. And he, he tries to spotlight it. And even sending, sending letters out outside of Germany, trying to to to get his friends in the press to speak out, actually to expose it. Expose the evil. But, but help us understand how his life unfolded, how he chose to take a stand against Hitler, how he viewed Hitler, how he understood evil, and what he could do to do. Well, I think in a lot of cases, you see this in the life of Martin Luther also. It's like a progressive thing where, you know, he didn't know how it was going to turn out. So, so, you know, Bonhoeffer is saying certain things in 1932, before Hitler actually comes to power, you know. And then Hitler comes to power, and then Bonhoeffer realizes, "Okay, I need to kind of take it up a notch. I need to really tell the church, like, 'Hey, church, this is it. This is your moment. You need to stand.'" And they didn't really stand. They weren't quite willing to. They weren't, you know. And again, I see that today. There's a lot of people like, "Well, I don't want to get political." What do you mean you don't want to get political? That's like idiotic. Why even, why even letting people use this term "political"? It's called truth. It's called trying to help people not to suffer. It's called hell. Trying to help your fellow man. It's, it's, you know, like, but, "Well, that's political." It's like, "Yes, standing against slavery was political. Ooh, I better not do that." Are you kidding? Like, if you believe in right and wrong, in truth, and you care about people, you're going to stand for stuff. And people can say, "Oh, that's political." You can say, "Well, whatever you want to call it, I have to do it because God calls me to speak the truth." Amen. Amen. And Bonhoeffer was not afraid of people calling him names. And he, so he starts speaking out against the stuff, and he knows there's going to be blowback. But he's thinking, "What choice do I have? I fear God." And so, it really was an evolving thing, more and more, you know, as people kind of backed up, you know, you, you end up looking more and more like a freak because everybody else is like backing up to like, "Well, we don't want to hear you. You take the heat. You say it." So, really, Bonhoeffer became kind of more radicalized as time went on, which is similar to the story of Martin Luther, you know, that as they, as they told him to shut up more and more and more, he was like, "Well, I can't shut up. I have to speak up more because of the way you're treating the truth and you're trying, I'm trying to, you know." And so, Bonhoeffer really, there's kind of an evolution there, uh, that that he really, he thought when he first started saying these things that people would say, "Oh, you know what? You're right." Yeah. But he realized that many people were just kind of very content to to to ignore it. It's gonna, it'll go away by itself. I don't need to stand. I don't need to do anything. And so, his, his, his voice became, you know, more and more dramatic. And in a funny way, too, like at the end. And I think this is what happens sometimes is that he realized, because I really think that God, often scripturally, right, He does His best work outside the church, right? Like He goes outside the church. He goes outside the people of God. He goes to Cyrus. He goes to, you know. And Bonhoeffer basically realized that, "Okay, the church is useless. They are not willing to stand." So, now I'm going to get involved with some pagans in the plot to kill Hitler. And I believe I'm following God's will for God's purposes. But I know that many people in the church will not understand that. They will look at me like, "What's wrong with you? Now you're getting really political? Are you crazy? You're getting involved in a plot to to kill Hitler?" And so, at the end of the day, we all have to answer to God, you know. And Bonhoeffer said, "Look, if I'm getting this wrong, I cast myself on the mercy of God. But I would rather cast myself on the mercy of a good, loving God and then sit on my hands for fear that I might be making a mistake." And so, it's really, that is a lesson to us that I think a lot of people, they confuse Christianity with this kind of pietistic, like, "I'm not going to sin." And if you do that, you're kind of living in fear, and you're afraid to do anything. It's like, "I don't want to speak up. I don't want to be political. I don't want to do this. I don't want to do that." And God says, "I want you to be free to do whatever you think is right. And if you end up making a mistake, I, I have that covered. I have my grace will cover you. I love you, and I will forgive you. But if you do nothing, that's that's something that I can't really forgive in the sense that you're acting like you're justified by doing nothing." And so, it's really, uh, that, that's another reason that the storyboard is so beautiful because he was willing to go out on a limb where even the good guys in the church were not quite following him, you know. And, uh, so, it's just one of the reasons I think his story is so powerful because he, he lived it. He actually lived it.

And so, when you read it, it kind of, what do you think he would say to us today? We have a few more minutes. Uh, that's, there's a question. What would he say to us today? Man, get a good night's sleep. Um, I, um, I mean, listen, what do you think his concerns? I think, yeah, I mean, I think that, um, well, I mean, his concern was always what God's concern was, which I think all of us would say that would be our concern. And I think that, you know, hopefully Bonhoeffer would say what God is saying, you know, now to us and through us. Um, and I think that in the, you know, the book that I'm, you know, writing right now, I'm, I'm hoping to to talk about this, like, what would, you know, because we say, "What would Bonhoeffer say?" But of course, the real question is, "What would God say?" Because that's all Bonhoeffer really would care about. It's like, "What is God saying right now? What are we, what are we missing?" And I, and I think we've talked about some of that tonight, that a lot of the American church is really missing stuff and making the same mistakes that the German church made that led to the nightmare of the Holocaust. I mean, that, when the church doesn't do what God wants it to do, really bad things happen. And so, that's why I'm excited that the remnant, you know, churches like this, people are waking up. And, you know, God will use that.

I love that. So, I mean, he understood that the context of human history in 1933 wasn't what it was five or ten years prior. Of course, he had the World War, war, right? But he adjusted. He's really listening. That's right. He's really listening to the Holy Spirit through the word of God. Not going outside, but actually. But that's, that's kind of interesting because it's, it's kind of like I've been saying something similar recently, right? Where you think like, right now, you know, if it was 1980, yeah, you'd be like, "Hey, yeah, everything's great. Everything, you know, there's whatever battles we face are not the same battles as we're facing today." Today, you know, we have the enemy. The barbarians are at the gate. That's right. You behave differently if the barbarians are at the gate than if they are 400 miles away. And there are people who don't understand the barbarians are at the gate. They don't understand that cultural Marxist maniacs are are at war with God's purposes, with His word. Uh, and you have to respond to that. You can't just say, "Well, I'm just gonna behave the same as I always would behave." God called us to be alive now. And He wants us to really be alive now to to what's going on. And I really think that, um, it is, it is why, uh, He is shaking the church and waking us up now because He wants us to stand now. I mean, you know, you could say in a funny way, it's kind of.

Like we're, we're all He has. He, He sent His Holy Spirit to us to live in us, so that we could be His hands and feet here in this world. And so we can say, "Where's God? Where's God?" God is theoretically living inside you, and therefore is going to act through us. And so if we don't do what He's calling us to do now, then things will go very badly, you know.

And so it's, uh, yeah, you know, Bonhoeffer discerned the times in which we lived. He made adjustments in his leadership. Yeah, mentioned that, you know, I mean, he didn't, he didn't evolve like we think of evolution in transition reforms, but I mean, he did, he did change, and he kept, and he kept listening, right? He kept making adjustments.

I would just say, I mean, my concern is for all of us. God help us. And I think pastors and leaders, and God help us all. We need the Lord's help, but we need to understand the context of the times in which we live, and our leadership needs to adjust to the times. And I just want to make sure that I make that, make this point.

So it would be one thing in 2005 to say, like, "We have to be careful not to be too political." I get that. But today, the opposite is the problem. The problem is like, "I don't want to be political." It's like, wait a second. You think voting for someone who believes in religious liberty and who will defend the unborn and whatever, you kind of think like, that's not important? You're not going to vote? You're not going to, in other words, today the difference between the church maybe 20 years ago and the church today is that today there are many people afraid to be sufficiently political because they're afraid of being criticized. And you think, hey folks, the times have changed. We're in a war. Don't worry about being political. Worry about obeying God. And if it looks political because of the situation today, don't worry about it. Just worry about what God wants you to do. And that is very different from where we were, you know, 10 or 15 years ago.

And so we have to respond in the way that Dietrich Bonhoeffer responded, trying to be sensitive to the times. And Germans in his day were telling him, "Nah, relax. It's not so bad. Take it easy. Sit down." And he was like, "No, I can't. I see the evil. And, and God calls me to stand now. And God's calling me to call you to stand now. And if you don't, God can't force you, but it won't go well." And, and it didn't go well. And so the question is, will we in the American church make the same mistake? Some are making exactly the same mistake. They act like, "Oh, if I was alive back then, I would have stood against Hitler." Well, are you standing against the madness now? That's right. That is a great question.

I just want to say, Eric and I would love for you to pray for us in a moment. And I, I'm going to read from Acts chapter four, uh, and I know you'll be blessed by, we'll all be blessed by it because it was, it was a prayer of the early church. And, um, when they, they were being censored by leadership in Jerusalem, and they just huddled together and they prayed for the Lord to empower them to speak more boldly. And it would be a blessing to all of us, Eric, if you could pray for us with regard to that.

But let me just say this before we close out. You guys, I, I, I'm maybe you're here for the first time, or you are a seeker, uh, you're new to the, new to the Bible, um, or some other category, but I'm just so glad that you, I just want you to know the Lord loves you with everything. He loves you. He loves you. He loves you. He loves you enough not to leave you the way you are. He made us. He created us. And He's revealed Himself to us. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except to be through Me." And He demonstrated that is true by resurrecting from the dead, which is Jewish history, by the way. And the reality is, is that Christianity would never have gotten off the ground without total evidence of a bodily resurrection. I'm talking about like handling the body. And the story tells, the scriptures tell us that Thomas, you know, he's, "I'm not going to buy into this." He was a follower of Jesus, and he wasn't there to see Jesus initially resurrect. And he said, "Look, I'm not going to buy into this, basically, unless I touch, touch Jesus, unless I put my fingers in the holes of His hands." Eight days later, Jesus appeared, and he was like, "My Lord and my God." You know, like, that's a pretty heavy thing for a good Jewish boy to say to, uh, to a man who is the God-man standing in front of him. So I just wouldn't be a Christian unless I was convinced Jesus resurrected. He conquered the grave. In fact, I mean, death has been used, we talked about this, way death has been used by bullies and tyrants to control people. They exist with the threat of death. Jesus conquered the grave. And for a believer, you know, our last breath on planet Earth is going to be our first in the presence of the Lord.

And Jesus, not only in His resurrection, demonstrated He is who He claimed to be, the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. But it's more than that. The gospel is more than just forgiveness of sins, very important, right relationship, very, very important, essential, uh, hope beyond the grave, very essential. But Jesus is creating all things new in Himself. The gospel is, is the power of God to salvation. It is, it's, it's, it's beyond what we could wrap our mind around. This is what Christ is doing. He's coming again, and He wants you to be a part of it. He wants you to be in His kingdom, a citizen of His kingdom.

And what moved me, and I'm almost done here, but what moved me when I was just a young man, just on the verge of my 16th birthday, was my brother telling me, "You're either for Christ or against Him." Jesus said, "You're either for Me or against Me." You go to vote in some booth, you know, if you don't put an X at, you know, uh, for Anthony Trumino, for example, if you don't vote for him, I'm just saying, anyways, now for governor, um, no, you don't have to vote for, I'm just saying I am. But if you don't, then you're voting against him, right? I just lost my audience. He was supposed to be here tonight, by the way. Anthony, are you here? Okay. No, he didn't show. Um, but the point is, it's like, if you're not voting for Christ, you are against Him. And that's an important distinction to make. Please understand. It's like, we're either going to leave here with the assurance our sins are forgiven before a holy God, or you're going to leave here seriously now with like, the wrath of God, judgment upon your head. You don't want that. You want to embrace Christ. He paid it all for us on the cross. He offers us forgiveness, hope beyond the grave. And I just want you to know that, I want you to know that tonight, you can turn to Him and know Him in a real and personal way.

And, um, before Eric prays, I, I just, I just bow our heads for word of prayer real quick. I just want you to know, wherever you are here this morning or this evening, excuse me, you can, you can pray this prayer. And, um, and if you mean it from your heart, I'm convinced the Lord will honor it. And church family, maybe you'd like to just pray along. But this is the prayer of saying, "Lord, forgive me. And Lord, come into my life and be my Savior and be my Lord." And I believe, just by the size of the group, there are some here tonight to whom the Lord is knocking on the door of your heart, seeking entrance. The question is, will you open the door to Christ? And I pray that you would do so in these next few moments. And this is a prayer to do just that, to open the door of your heart to embrace Christ as Lord and Savior. And if you would like to do that, hey, why don't you pray with me right now? And be awesome. And for those who would like to just encourage those who are doing just that, you can pray as well. It's a prayer that goes like this. Pray with me.

Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus, I call upon You now. I call upon You now to be my Savior and Lord. To be my Savior and Lord. I know I'm a sinner. I know I'm a sinner. But I know You're a great Savior. But I know You're a great Savior. Lord, forgive me. Lord, forgive me. Lord, come into my life. Lord, come into my life. Fill me with the life of God. Fill me with the life of God. Thank You for forgiving me. Thank You for forgiving. Thank You for coming into my life. Thank You for coming into my life. Today, I turn to You. Today, I turn to You as my Savior and Lord. As my Savior and Lord. Thank You for making me Your child. Thank You for making me Your child. Both now and forever. Both now and forever. In Jesus' name. In Jesus' name. Amen.

Hey, you know, I want to say a few words to those of you that prayed that prayer, meant it from your heart. Let's all stand. And I will, just a little bit, but I'd like Eric to lead us in a word of prayer before we close. It tells us in Acts chapter 4, verse 31, "When they had prayed, when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken, and they were filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness." Boy, that is so important. And the context is that the early church, our brothers and sisters in Jerusalem, they were being threatened not to speak. And that God has given us a voice. And what comes out of our life and death, or in the power of the tongue. The Lord wants to use all of us. We have friends, we have sphere of influence, we have, we have cousins and aunts and uncles and moms and dads and so forth and neighbors. Lord wants to work in and through us for such a time as this. The context of our time, so different than it was just 10 years ago. There's a big darkness at play. And we are ambassadors of Christ in our generation. Can I hear an amen to that?

And I just want to ask Eric if he would pray for us and just that the Lord would afresh empower us as we go forth.

Eric: Heavenly Father, we come before You in faith that Your word is true and You are real. And You have chosen every one of us to live for Your purposes. And You invite us to be a part of doing Your will in our sphere of influence, uh, wherever we are, in our families, wherever we are, in our communities. You invite us to be Your voice and Your hands and Your feet. And Lord, we know that apart from You, we can do nothing. And so we invite You now, Father in Heaven, in the name of Jesus, to send Your Holy Spirit to touch everyone here who His heart is open to You, who desires to be used by You, who desires to be used by You in this generation. Now we ask You, Father, send Your Holy Spirit to touch each one of us that our lives would be changed, that You would use us to bring knowledge of You and Your truth to others. We open our hearts. That's right. And we ask You, Father, rend the heavens, open the heavens, and send Your Holy Spirit upon each of us now. Amen. That as we sleep tonight, we will dream dreams that You will speak to us, that You will put us in the path of things, that we will see Your miraculous hand in our life. That it's not just a mental assent to some things, but that we will see You using us because we say, "Use us." We invite You. And we ask You, Father, now by the power of Your Spirit, to do this for everyone here. Everyone watching this, that Your Holy Spirit will baptize us afresh, that we will feel the power of Your Spirit alive in us, empowering us to do Your will. And that we will see the miraculous in our lives. We know this is real and true. And we invite You to use us, Father. Use everyone here. Make it clear to everyone here that You are alive and that You desire to use them for Your purposes in this generation. To Your glory. Amen.

Amen. Amen. Love it. Amen. Praise God.