Transcription
You talk about this concept known as the family Wi-Fi system. Could you explain it to my audience in the most visceral, real-world way as possible?
Yes. And I think if you are, if it's pointed out to you, you probably couldn't even see it. And I even try to illustrate that for people so they can see it. For example, well, let's talk about, and not every, but it's an alcoholic, let's say you have an alcoholic dad. And the family's there. He [snorts] comes home. The door opens, and what happens to everyone? Ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping. That's the Wi-Fi going. It's, it's being broadcast: Dad's home. >> [snorts] >> And now I'm nervous, anxious. I don't know who he's going to be. I don't know what he's going to be. It is a biological connectedness reality. Cuz in biology, we have the same thing. Now, we can even go on a cellular basis where you can talk about how cells communicate with each other. Well, how can a cell do that? But if you think about horses in a herd, and the front horse takes a turn, and they all turn together, how do they do that? At the same time. That's that emotional and nervous system Wi-Fi that we are all connected to. I don't know if that helps.
It does help, and it makes a lot of sense. And I feel that people are not only trapped in it. Um, and the moment, absolutely. And when you're a kid, it's obviously super hard to realize that. I think the bigger problem that exists is when you're an adult, and your, your life is playing out in a way that reflects that. Like, what are some of the signs that someone has been programmed based on the energy of their family?
Well, um, and this is, you know, we can even talk about transference, which is a psychological term. But, you know, where, where you go, "Boy, my boss acts so much like my father." Well, what is that about? I mean, they're not your father. They don't even know your father. They didn't even ever meet your father. You are doing this projection because of the Wi-Fi that you're still connected to. And that Wi-Fi is, is often what prompts lots of things. For example, I knew I began to learn more about the Wi-Fi when my mom would say something, uh, critical, or disagreeing, or shaming, or something like that, and I would immediately feel shame. I'm an adult, by the way. I'm an adult at this time, so I'm not a child. She's not running my life, but yet, in some ways, she still was. Because of the, I'm still connected to the same modem with her. And so I still, we are still running the same programs. And so when she says, "Well, I don't know why you'd want to hurt me by saying that." And maybe all I said was, "No, I don't want to come this Sunday because I can't visit you here because I need to go do this." "Well, I don't know why you'd want to hurt me like that." And then I automatically feel shame or guilt. Why am I feeling shame or guilt? I didn't do anything to hurt her. I, I, I didn't even, I'm doing nothing bad. Because my Wi-Fi is trained: when Mom does this, you get triggered this way. And that's what you feel. And you even think your shame and guilt is yours. That's how strong that Wi-Fi is. You actually think those are your real feelings. But how could you have those feelings if you haven't done anything wrong? You've done nothing to, you haven't hurt her. You just said, "Hey, I've got to do this." But I need to have this experience so that we stay enmeshed. And that's a part of that enmeshment.
Do you think codependency is caused by what you just described?
Oh, codependency is the ultimate of that. Yes. I mean, that's that's exactly it. It's your, well, it's the, the super self. And I talk about the super self and the family's Wi-Fi. The family super self and the, and the Wi-Fi. The super self is, "I'm not my real self. I'm just this umbilical cord plugged into this super self that is the functioning of my dysfunctional family." My, the Wi-Fi is what goes through the umbilical cord and keeps pinging me and just keeps pinging me. And, um, and but we, but we think of that as being us. Not something foreign, not something programmed, not something. Because when I tell people, "Oh yeah, I just feel so much shame when I'm around my mother." Do you ever do anything wrong that would warrant the shame? Well, no. Then why do you feel so much shame around your mother? I'm not shaming you for feeling that shame. I'm only asking you about it. So I'm not criticizing you for feeling it, 'cause I know that experience personally. But you're feeling something that's a part of the system. The, the modem, the, the internet of the family is pushing you to feel that shame. And you're thinking it's your feelings. So a lot of people, they live this life where they're codependent, they're people-pleasing, they're re-reacting. They are the thermometer. >> They're reacting. >> And not the thermostat. Um, like, why, why do you think a lot of people just don't ever end up figuring out, you know, where their, like, kind of emotional DNA comes from?
Well, well, first of all, the family super self, your role, what you've been programmed, and the family Wi-Fi is not there to aid you in that discovery. It's there to thwart that recovery because the family didn't do that. It's very threatening to detach from a family system in a healthy way. Very threatening to detach from a. And it causes lots of problems. People get all upset. It makes it, it makes a bad situation worse. And so why would I want to go to a therapist and find out or coach and find out these things that are only going to make my life more miserable with my family? So you've got to be ready to go, "Hey, you would like to move beyond your family and you would like to have your family out of you." If you're not ready to do that, I'm going to make you pretty miserable. And I don't want to make you miserable. And so I'll say, "Are you ready to get them out of you?" Because they're not going to like it. Because if they liked it, you would have already done it. You know. No, they're going to be not happy with that. As my mom, how do you think my mom felt when she would say, "I don't know why you'd want to hurt me this way." Though I'm not hurting her at all. And I didn't act hurt. And I didn't act shamed or guilted. How do you think she felt? Oh, Jerry's [clears throat] just now, he's just this cruel, heartless. He used to be so empathetic. No, I used to just be so connected to the Wi-Fi that and I wasn't me. That's different than being, and I was doing what you thought I should do. That's what, that's what you're yearning for, Mom. I can't do that anymore. I have to discover me. And I have to be me. Not in a mean way, not in a bad way, not in a way without values, but in who I am.
How can people separate whether or not the family Wi-Fi or the systems that were in place when they were younger is what's controlling their life versus, like, their own behavior and the way that they've chosen to live their life?
>> Does that, and I'm not saying we can't feel shame. There is true shame. There's nothing wrong with that. If I hurt someone who I care about or hurt somebody I don't even know that much. It's a, it's okay to feel shame about that. That's that's fine. Uh, and guilt, the same way. If I do something wrong, I may feel guilt about that. But it needs to flow organically and logically that that's what has happened. It can't be, uh, someone saying, "I don't know why you're treating me so badly." And you going, "But I am not trying to treat you badly." Now, if you're treating them badly, stop it. But if you're not, then stop feeling shame and guilt. And, and there are ways to begin to stop that because you see them, you start to see these feelings as what I call systems feelings. They're not genuine core true feelings. They're systems feelings. And if you are running on systems feelings, which are not logical, they don't fit the, they're not situation appropriate, um, for why you're feeling them. Uh, then you're probably running on the Wi-Fi and the super self, and you're just going to be dictated by that. And there are ways to begin to work through those and, and determining, okay, I'm feeling really, uh, hurt right now. Now, do they have done something to really hurt me? Or do I need to feel hurt because that's what I'm supposed to feel? Um, and, and again, you, we, we start to ask those questions, "Is this real or false?" And I used to teach a conference. I remember I used to take a, take a workshop about feelings. True feelings, systems feelings, uh, false feelings, you know, that feelings are not all equal. They're not all equal. And if you see all feelings as equal, you're going to be running on the Wi-Fi and the super self. If you see all feelings as equal, valid, etc. Now, I never tell someone not to tell me what they're feeling, and I don't shame them for having those feelings. But we don't want to call something real that's something programmed.
How would you describe what the family super self is to an 8-year-old?
To an 8-year-old, I might say, and I, I understand you want you'd like me to keep it simple, not necessarily just for the 8-year-old, but 'cause an 8-year-old probably not going to ask that. As simple as humanly possible. >> As simple as possible. The, yeah, and sometimes I have a hard time doing that. Um, because, well, if I, if I were going to explain that, I would say, "Do you ever, do you feel like you're a bad boy?" Yeah. "Do you feel that a lot?" Yeah. "Do you know where you learned that?" And, "Do you ever feel you're a good boy?" Well, sometimes. And which is stronger for you, a good boy or a bad boy? Uh, probably a bad boy. That's the super self identity. It's that negative, it's the pseudo self. It's the unreal self that you had to be to fit into your dysfunctional family. That's really what. And, and it's connected to the super self because nobody in a dysfunctional family is a healthy, mature, self-differentiated adult. I, I just don't know how that would be. I don't know how that could even happen. I mean, anything's possible. I'm open to anything. Uh, but it generally, we are functioning in this system that dictates everyone's behavior, feelings, thoughts, beliefs, values, actions. That's all a part of this pseudo self, family pseudo self. And we end up then becoming somebody that's not us. It's just not us.
So, you'll hear people say all the time, like, "Every family's got stuff, and no one is perfect," right? True. Most people say that, right? How can somebody tell the difference between, like, the normal, innocent dysfunction, if you call it that, that can happen during childhood, you know, normal stressors and stuff like that, versus like when does like versus the, versus dysfunction that crosses this line that you're talking about?
I got you. Okay. And, and you're right, it is a spectrum or it is a continuum. And it's on a continuum. And, and in fact, in, in a book I'm working on, I'm talking about different, uh, levels of anxiety and dysfunction from the healthy, perfect, whatever that is, that probably doesn't even exist, all the way up to the psychopathic. And, you know, and the anxiety that. And in fact, what's kind of interesting is that it, as you go up on that intensity level, you know, the sociopath doesn't have any anxiety. They don't care. They, they have no. Now, everybody else is anxious and worried, so the system does have a lot of anxiety. Sociopaths, they have no guilt, no anxiety. It's, they're perfectly fine with whatever they do. They can, you know, shoot your dog and walk away and go, "Oh well, another day." And, um, and so there is a continuum. And that if we feel equipped to be our true selves, managing our anxiety, managing the distance between you and me with togetherness and separateness forces, and keeping that in a healthy way with boundaries, and I come to know myself as who I am, then that's more self-differentiated. Every family has a different level of self-differentiation. Mhm. It's a collective self-differentiation. That's the super self. And we inherit that. Got it. Now, if yours is really low, then you're going to experience the symptoms of it being low. "I don't know who I am. I'm too reactive. I've got too much anxiety. I've got issues. I'm neurotic. I'm whatever, you know, I'm, you know, I'm unhappy with this. I can't, I can't do relationships very well. I may have addiction problems. I, I can't keep jobs. Or if I, whatever job I go into, I'm very successful, but I can't get along with anybody." You know, they're just all those kinds of things that get worked out in normal life, but it actually comes from the level of differentiation we inherited from our family. And we haven't worked on to increase. We haven't worked on that to increase it.
Well, I think one of the mental prisons that people get caught up into, I'm not sure if you talked about this in the book, is this idea that because their family treated them a certain way that they can now behave in a certain way moving forward, and they can always kind of point back to that as being the reason why they act a certain way. Which I think is a huge trap because then you, you give away all of your power and responsibility and accountability, which is not a good way to live either. And I would identify that as not good insight. Even though they might know something more about their family now. "Oh, my mother was a narcissist. Oh, my dad was an alcoholic and abusive. Oh, my blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." Okay, you have more data. But you're using the same system and the same unhealthy way of thinking to deal with that information. That they're wrong, therefore I should, I should be broken and should act in a, and live in a broken way. What, how is that that you're just living out the family dynamics again? It's still happening to you. You haven't had it stop happening. Even though you have this, these pieces of insight because blaming is not the same thing as focusing on yourself. It's okay to have more illumination about your family. That can be very important. But that's not the same thing as blaming. Blaming hurts me more than it hurts the person that I blame.
What is a healthy, what do you think is a healthy way to to unpack and look at all this so that it doesn't kind of cause somebody to repeat the same patterns or fall into the same traps?
And I think that, and that's what I try to do in the program that I have is to kind of walk people through that process. And the, it's called "The Road to Self." And I, because I've had to go through that. There's nothing in this program that I haven't had to learn personally. In 45 years, I, I've had to learn this. So, it's not, I'm not just giving you stuff that I read in a book somewhere. You know, I mean, books have been helpful. I'm not. And people, and there are many authors that have been a very big help to me. Uh, but that's not, I'm giving you my, my life experience. And that's actually what self-differentiation about is that I can't give you anything I don't have. And that's true for a therapist. That's true for a pastor. That's true for a counselor. That's true for a coach. That's, you, how do you give somebody something you don't have? And so, it's very important. And when I've trained therapists over the years, I want them to be the most healthy, differentiated people they could be. They will help more people if they can do that. The, uh, so, the steps in that or working through that is that we, are we ready to be curious about how we function? How we think? How we feel? Are you ready to be curious about that? Um, if you're not, then go live your life and I hope you don't stub your toe too much. And I hope, I'm, I'm not here to make anybody do anything. You know, I'm just telling you how human behavior and systems work, emotional systems work for human beings. That's all I'm here to, I'm not here to judge you. And, and in fact, I've probably done most of all the crazy things that you've thought about doing. So, you know, I, I'm not here to, to fix that. If you're here to fix you, then you can begin to learn how relationships work and how humans work in relationships and biological, um, uh, biological, uh, cells, humans, planets, it's all the same. The only reason that this galaxy stays together is because it has a homeostasis. It has a way it's held together in a way that allows life's life to be able to be on Earth. And so, we want to have a, a same type of, uh, equilibrium in our lives. And so, that way we don't want to be too close, 'cause if any of the planets are too close, it messes everything up. We don't want to be too distant, 'cause if any of the planets are too distant, it messes everything up. We need a balance of togetherness and closeness. And that's when you begin to learn, "Oh, I've been out of balance ever since my family taught me to be out of balance."
So true, because you don't want to be that person, you know, who's like going on a date when you're like in your 30s and you're talking about what happened to you when you were like 12 years old. You know what I mean? You know, it's not going to be very attractive to the other person. And you also don't want to be that person that I was when I was younger, where, you know, I internalized certain things as a kid and I used that as a, as a green light, if you will, to just behave like a, like a jerk, you know, for years and years and years. And then I always had that to point back to. And then you can ruminate on those thoughts and then you start to create this story in your mind. And the story of what happened feels so, it feels righteous enough to do these things. Then you become miserable and you become even in even more pain than you were, um, when you started. You don't get out of the box. You're, you're, you're still using their box to understand their bad behavior. But you're not using their box to understand your bad behavior and how to get out of it. That's, that's the, you know, that's the difference in the blaming. And people come to me and say, "Oh, I had a narcissistic parent, so I blame that, you know, they messed my whole life up." It's okay to have some regret and a blame phase and feeling angry. It's okay. That's totally fine. Don't stay there. 'Cause if you stay there, then you're still focusing on the dysfunctional family and not on you.
Do you think that the people who are who seem to be addicted to like chaos or drama always shows up? Do you think that's because of this family programming that we're talking about?
The, I would say probably 99.9% of the time, yes. If somebody goes to a concentration camp and learns some horrible things, then maybe I wouldn't call it their family of origin, stroke. But that's a rare, you know, kind of thing. I wouldn't want anybody to go to a concentration camp. Um, but yeah, it's if they, and, and that's one of the things I, I just did a video today and talked about, "The problem is the way out." Why do I say that? Because everybody goes, "I don't know where to start. I don't know what to do." "Oh, it's right in front of your face. Are you addicted to drama? Are you addicted to, you know, chaos?" "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that it drives me nuts." Okay. Ask the second question. "Where did you learn that?" "Well, I didn't learn it. It's just always just been there." "No, no, no, no. Where did you first become aware that in your own mind?" "I know as a kid you probably didn't think this way, but where do you, how long have you been under that spell?" "Oh, probably since I was in grade school. You know, my family was chaotic. My family, you know, yeah, they were a mess and la la la la la." Okay. Now, thirdly, "How are you acting and treating yourself in the chaotic, drama way where you're treating you that way?" "Oh, well, that's a little tougher question." Okay, well, let's ask that question. Because now I want to find out how to get it out of me because it's in you, which is what the problem is. It's not even in this. People will just have, they'll probably send all kinds of hate mail. Which is fine. Because I don't mean this literally. So, it's, I make that, but that if your family started this whole mess, which they did, okay, they did. That's fine. We'll blame them for that. Okay, they're blamed. You're now blamed. Now, the, uh, but the thing is, who perpetuates it?
I think people run into this roadblock after they start to have this realization of some of these patterns that have been keeping them stuck or in certain relationships or making certain decisions in their life. And it becomes that they don't know what to do with it. They don't know how to to set boundaries when, um, it's tested. They kind of just go black and white on people. So, you know what? Like, you're out of my life completely because >> Exactly. Or, um, they, they fall back into the same patterns. They don't have compassion for themselves. So, how can people manage that in-between phase of when they're, when they've understood what's been controlling them like we've been talking about, and they're trying to get to that other side, and that in-between, and it's a tough time. How do they do that?
>> Absolutely. >> And don't think I haven't had to work on that. No, it's very tough. However, there are some things you can think about because there's something that we can do that helps us melt the family super self and change the modem and the impact of the pinging. That's learning to stay calmer and not reactive. That helps you learn to fly a 747, which is who we are. We're very complicated plane. And it learns to help you do that. So, I have a video called "Calmness is Everything." Because you're saying, "Well, how do I get this to stop?" First of all, we have to get you to stop. And how do you stop? Learning to stay calm. Because if you are reactive, you're now, you're just reactivating the whole system. If I stay calm, the system starts to, starts to pull away and melt away. If I can stay calm, and the whole thing about dysfunctional families is having reactivity all over everywhere. And everybody's reactive. And especially in a chaotic, drama-filled type of life, then I want to say, "Do you practice calmness?" In these situations? "Yeah, I told..." Well, it's kind of hard because they said something to hurt my feelings and so now I'm going to cut them out of my life. Oh, so you didn't practice calmness. Because you could have just as easily chosen to get them out of your life. You have the right to do that. But the way you did it was reactively. And that's a part of your family and that's a part of what you haven't learned to work on. Let me help you with that.
What are some ways to practice being calm so that when they're in those situations?
Um, oh, I, it's not as easy. And that's a good, and it, and it, and it does take practice. And that's in the book. I'm talking about the ways. And even in the program, I try to give people ways to, to do that. And for example, um, become an observer and not an absorber. Be a researcher. Go be with that family or family member or friend or boss or whatever. And I want you to do, I want you to do nothing to fix the situation. I only want you to observe it in a, being in the audience. And I want you to just look and watch what happens. Don't do anything, 'cause if you do something, you're probably going to be reactive. I just want you to watch. 'Cause I want to help you squeeze out of that enmeshment. I want to help you become more detached. And that's a first way to begin to do that. Start observing. And I remember the first time I went to a family gathering. And my assignment was to be an observer. That was incredible. 'Cause I thought, "What?" Number one, if you're an observer, you can stay a lot calmer. A lot calmer if you can be an observer. Stop being an an absorber. So that's one tool that we can use. Um, the other thing is, are you working on predicting what's going to happen, which you know you, is going to happen before you engage with your friend, your family, whoever, so that you can predict what's going on so that you know how you might be able to respond in a more calm way? 'Cause people, people know exactly what their family's going to do. They know what, they've been living with these people for ever. They know. They just don't know. They know. They know exactly what the reaction's going to be. Now, what's your reaction going to be? If you get reactive, then what can you do to begin to, to, what, what is it called? Wean yourself away from that hyper-reactivity? It may even begin with, "You know, Mom, that's interesting what you just said. I need to go use the restroom." Yeah, I think it's a good way to >> [laughter] >> Well, >> that I, I usually >> need to calm myself down. 'Cause you're going to be no good if you're right up there at your high level of reactivity and just stay there. You're just going to keep pinging, everybody's going to just keep pinging each other. It, it won't be better by you doing that. I've even had couples to say, "Hey, if you're having trouble, you have to keep arguing. Okay. When you feel like you want to argue, I want you to read aloud the Declaration of Independence." And you to read aloud the Declaration of Independence. "What, Jerry? That just sounds so ridiculous." Oh, no, no, no, no. Let me tell you what's ridiculous. You guys still arguing over the same things and going nowhere and getting nothing done and wasting your life. That's ridiculous. This might actually help you because it's totally absurd. And I need something absurd rather than the logic that you're using, which is broken. And you're just going to fight some more. But you did this, or you did this. But you did this, and then you don't get anywhere. You're just, then you have a hangover from this argument for two days.
Well, and I think that people, they equate at times not reacting quickly, um, to losing. Because they feel like they have to get that word in like right away. They have to end that argument as soon as possible.
>> It's all bravado though. You know, get your word in. Okay, you got your word in. What, did that change your parent? Did that change your brother, your sister? Did it change anything? Well, I felt better. You felt better because you are at the mercy of what feels better in this system. I want this system out of you. I don't want you reacting to this system. It's crazy. I don't want you reacting to this system. It's nuts. Well, well, I got my word in. Do you know, I'll get you a certificate. I'll get you a plaque that says, "You got your word in." Now, you're free to get your word in anytime you want. I'm not your parent. You, you can, you're free to do that. I'm just telling you what's happening. That's all I'm telling you. I'm not telling you what to do. I'm telling you what's happening. And you getting your word in is just continuing the status quo. That's all. It would be better if you just farted and left the room. That at least wouldn't continue the status quo.
I'm going to put you on the spot here. How long do you think, accurately to the best of your knowledge, does it take [snorts] for somebody to change these patterns?
Well, it's a lifelong work. I'm still working on it. You, you never get to a 10 on the 10 self-differentiation scale. I don't know if you ever get to a 10. But it's, a six feels a whole lot different than a three. Terms of self-differentiation. Whole lot different. And in fact, a half of movement on, if you can stay calm in some ways that you didn't know before, do you know how much that can change your life? It, it's transformative. And in fact, if you can go to that family and you're just kind of neutral and kind of watching and detached, and you don't get caught up in all the nonsense, you'll walk away feeling like you're on cloud nine. Even though you may have your own problems, you have your own issues, and you hate it. You go, "I wish they wouldn't do that." So, I would say my path would go, my first six months was very powerful and not easy. The next five years were learning how to do that more and more and more. And the next 10 years was tweaking even more and learning how to fly the 747 rather than the Cessna. And then now I'm hoping I can fly the Artemis 2 to the moon.
Yeah, I think you want to get into a habit of playing chess and not just throwing pawns out, you know.
>> Exactly. Everybody. But chess is hard, people. I don't want the hard. I don't want to play chess. Just tell me how to play checkers. No, you're already playing checkers. That, that, you're already doing that. Well, I got my word in. In other words, I, I crowned your whatever. I jumped over your, you know, your piece. You're already playing checkers. Play checkers if you'd like. But if you're willing to learn chess, then you'll know whether to turn right or left, say yes or no, go up or down, recognize what's going on in the system, and you respond in a way that keeps you detached in a healthy, mature way, which people who grew up in normal families, whoever they are. But if they grew up in a normal family, they do it more naturally because they had the, they had the, they had a different kind of self-differentiation level in their home. Maturity, freedom, autonomy, love, nurturing was, was there. You know, and that will teach you a lot different things than dysfunctional families tend to do. And, um, so, this may not be for everybody. But actually, it's what, it is the norm for everybody. That's how humans. And in fact, some people don't have to do it as much because they already learned it from a healthy environment and a healthy intergenerational environment. But some of us didn't get that. So, we've got a little, little harder work to do. But it's, to me, and in, and if you turn, think about change, sometimes in doing this work, a little change can transform your whole life. Sometimes it can take a long time to make a change in your life.
So, when people say, "Just grow up," or "You grew out of it," do you think they don't understand basic psychology and human interaction?
Well, I would just say, "Well, prove it." I mean, "Just grow up." Or, or you'll just grow out of it. No, no. I talk to 80-year-old people who haven't grown out of anything. >> [laughter] >> Now, what is, what is that then? I, I talk to 50-year-old people who haven't, who who are still 12-year-old kids. You know, I talk to 30-year-olds who are still, you know, in, in junior high in their life, you know, emotional life or mental life. And, and I don't think they're. Now, do we age out in some way? We may. And I think as you get older, you can have a little more detachment that happens as you get older, 'cause older people might go, "I don't care what anybody thinks." Okay, there's a little detachment that may happen with that. But, that's not the same thing as functioning as a healthy, self-loving, other-loving, mature adult who can, who can only rarely be reactive in an unhealthy way.
You've spent decades helping people get their family systems out of them and rewiring their brain, etc. What do you think is the single most common thing people do that keeps this programming running, no matter how much work they've done?
Well, and I would say there are some traps. Well, and the trance, the family trance, which is what I call the family trance. In other words, we are just so blinded by our family system that we think we're seeing reality. And no, it's a trance. You, you've been, you know, wake up. Wake up. You know, it's, it really is a powerful trance. And I've seen. And when we're in that, then we're going to think that when we're in that trance, "Well, I'll just get the last word in now and I'm going to show them." And those kinds of responses are still reactive, but they're reactive at the other end of the pendulum. One side of the pendulum is, "Oh, you're right. I'm wrong. I'm worthless. I'll just be quiet and accept what's there." That's, that's a victim. Then we can go to the Viking, and then I'm just reactive in a very aggressive way. And, and neither one of those is mature or adult or self-differentiated. The self-differentiated response is the 90° mark. And that's what most people have not experienced. And I try to give them examples when they say, "Well, Jerry, how would I talk to my boss about that in a self-differentiated way?" Because they know how to talk to their boss this way. They also know how to talk to their boss that way. They don't know how to talk to their boss this way. So, it's the option C. And most people don't have option C's because they were never taught those. They never got those. I didn't get those. I, I don't know what a C would be. E- either I need to, uh, you know, stay in and, and just be, you know, a, a rug to walk on, uh, or I need to push them out of my life and leave. I mean, those are the choices that most people. They have no idea what an option C would be because of their family trance, because of their low self-differentiation, their reactivity. And so, I think having getting an explanation of that and have them learn about that opens up their eyes tremendously to break this trance. 'Cause this is the trance. It's the pendulum life. And we just think that's all there is.
What do you think are some of the biggest mistakes that we haven't covered that people make along the way?
That they continue to, they're working on self-differentiation. They're working on being their true selves, but they continue to try to change others in their family system and don't stay focused on themselves. Trying to save their family, fix their family, uh, get, get their mother to love them like they've always wanted to have because they've seen some reality of change. They've seen them change themselves. So, they're going, "Well, if she could just have this, then we could have the fairy tale relationship I always wanted." And I go, "No, no. It, it doesn't work that way." Your changing could affect your mom or your dad. It, it definitely could because we are connected. But, you cannot do the work for the purpose of changing others. You, you can't do that. You have to be real selfish about this because that's how family systems works. If I'm doing it for you, now I'm tainting it. It's being tainted. And, and I won't get the benefit of that.
Where can people, where can people find out more about you and your work?
Uh, the website, I have a free training on the front of it. Uh, and JerrywiseRelationshipSystems.com. The, um, I, so, I have a website. I'm on YouTube. Probably got, I don't know, 2,000 videos. I don't know. And, um, and you can watch some of those. Just type my name in. Actually, I think you can just do Jerrywise and probably find a lot of things. And then I have the "Road to Self" program that you can also join. And, uh, and that's something I'm offering now and hope we'll have some new things coming in this year.
Jerry, always a pleasure to chat with you. Thanks so much for coming on and schooling my audience.
Hey, it is, I always enjoy coming and talking. I do like that very much with you, Doug. Thank you. Appreciate it. And thanks for having me.