Transcription
Your worst Hollywood depiction doesn't come close to how ugly and evil demons are. They're full of rage and violence.
This is a mainstream Catholic position that demonic possession actually happens, that real man seniors like yourself have to actually excise a demon out of.
First of all, I'm a licensed psychologist. I'm not going to perform an exorcism on someone who twitches three times. You have seen Lucifer.
He said, "You're not ready for this, Rosetti. It's the king of hell himself. It's Lucifer. You're way out of your league."
As someone who's performed so many exorcisms, do you not get scared?
I've seen that Jesus cast out some pretty ugly demons.
Have there ever been exorcisms that you've performed personally that have actually failed?
So, we have a very special guest today, Monsignor Steven Rosetti. Um, I have to admit, Monsignor, I have never spoken uh to someone who performs exorcisms. So, I really want to thank you for making the time and I'm looking forward to our conversation. So, thanks for being here.
It's my pleasure, Shabos. I'm glad to be with you.
So, when we talk about demons, when we talk about the devil, I think first and foremost, it's crucial we're defining our terms. So when I look at the Hebrew Bible first and foremost, if I were to start with a scriptural allusion or even explicit mention of these spirits, these demonic forces, I'm going straight to Genesis uh 6:1-4 where it talks about the Nephilim. And of course, in modern-day Hebrew, naphal from the word Nephilim literally means to fall. So most of the rabbinic commentators at least, they see these beings, these entities as these fallen angels. I guess from from your perspective and from the perspective of the Catholic Church, demons, devils, the spirits, where are they originating from? Are these those Nephilim that we're seeing in the Hebrew Bible?
Well, uh, we believe that everything God creates is good. God can't create evil or bad stuff, you know. So uh, God created purely spiritual beings that we we name them as angels uh and and eventually created us who are a combination of material and also spiritual. So angels are beautiful, good spirits, purely spiritual beings. But he gave angels and human beings free will. He's he he wants us to choose him and to love him uh and each other freely. So you have to have free will. And unfortunately, uh, some abuse that, chose evil. So angels that choose evil fell out of God's presence and became what we call now demons.
Hm. You know, it's interesting because in in the Hebrew Bible as well, the rabbinic commentators look at the story of Abraham and then the three men who visit his tent to reveal three specific acts. You know, you're going to have a son, Isaac. We're going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. And there have been commentators who say these were not three men. These were three angels. And they had one particular mission from the divine, which is to go to Abraham. Say this specific mission. And then they have kind of uh fulfilled and completed their purpose here here on earth. And there's another fascinating rabbinic exposition that when God was creating the world, the angels went to him and said, "Don't create the world and don't create humanity because you know that by creating humanity, they're going to steal and they're going to chase after their heart and they're going to disobey from your commands. You know, just just refrain from doing it." And God looks at the angels and says, "Well, it's actually better that I create human beings because while it is true they may stumble and fall and sin, nevertheless, they have something that you don't, which is free will." And through the process of discernment and human agency, they can actually come to find me in a way that that you just can't.
Um, but but let's let's I guess dive right into it then. As it pertains to demons, you don't really see, at least in the Hebrew Bible, that many explicit mentions, but you do see that the Talmud has almost a dichotomy as it pertains to how they view demons and the and these forces. So Abin Yemen in the tractate of Berakhot 6a, he says that if the eyes were given the power to see these mazikin, mazikin for lack of a better term, essentially is a demon, then no creature would be able to stand before them because like their forces are just so powerful. So do you see, and is it the position of the Catholic Church that today in the 21st century, in 2026, there are physical beings that for the sake of this conversation, we will refer to as demons that exist on planet Earth and are walking around freely and can possess human bodies?
We would not say they're physical. They're purely spiritual. But uh, can they uh possess human beings? Sure. And of course, they, we believe they tempt everyone and try to influence everyone with their evil temptations and thoughts. But there are times we believe that they can possess human beings. They possess their bodies, by the way. They don't possess their spirits or souls. They're they're always people always have their free will. Uh, but they can possess their bodies. Which is an important distinction because when someone's possessed, people say, "Oh my gosh, I had somebody ask me the other day. They said, uh, demons took away the person's soul and now inhabited the body." I said, "Nonsense. Demons can't touch a person's soul, but they can affect their bodies. So they'll take over their bodies and they'll act through their bodies, which we see in an exorcism."
So, this might be a silly follow-up question, but these demons, are they existing outside of the autonomy of God? Can they do their own free will and they can possess whoever they would like, or is everything divinely ordained by God himself?
Well, we would say that uh uh, there's a difference between God's active will and passive will that God intervenes. So, for example, God does really intervene in people's lives in very, very powerful, wonderful ways. The graces us is active uh will, but he allows us us human beings to to do good or to do evil. And he does the same with demons. But with demons, they're they're chained and and they only allow to do so much because if they weren't chained, I'd be the first person that'd kill, you know, kill an exorcist. So they, if uh, they are very by themselves uh, they're very powerful, more so than human beings by themselves. And uh, so God chained them. For example, they, we believe that God does not allow demons to kill people directly or even to maim them. Uh, but he can torment them and beat them up a little bit. Uh, so they're only allowed to do so much. They're chained.
H. So in again in the Hebrew Bible, and this is where I want to see the Catholic Church's divergence and its perspective, I would say the most fundamental or foundational verse would be Deuteronomy 30:19, where God tells his creations like, "I've created life and death. And please, I implore you, choose life. I can't force you to choose life. Only you can do that." And we learn from this that human beings again, they're different than angels because we have autonomy, we have free will, and when and we can make choices. And I guess where I always get stuck in this conversation with demons is it sort of seems that when we talk about demons, there's the most powerful demon of all, and that's of course the devil. In Judaism, I'm not entirely clear as to the devil being a physical being. I I don't see that being brought up in in the verses anywhere. But I guess if you can just educate me and educate those who are not part of the Catholic faith, what is the purpose of the devil? What what is he doing on a day-to-day basis?
First of all, we believe that angels uh were given free will and they made the fundamental choice. We human beings choose again and again and again until we die. Angels made that fundamental choice for or against God and the good angels uh chose God and the bad ones became demons and they they reject him. We believe they have uh free will and chose once for all eternity. Uh, what's Satan's role? Well, Satan was what we called that Satan previously was called Lucifer, the lightbearer, who was a very high-ranking angel. Some suggest the highest-ranking angel because angels are in very much in hierarchy. Uh, he was the highest-ranking angel probably and uh, he led the revolt. So he led the revolt and we believe that one-third of the angels fell as the the book of Revelation, the the dragon swept his tail and one-third of the stars fell from the sky, you know, uh, so uh, he led the revolt and he does his own thing, you know, but God allows him a certain amount, but pretty much has chained him and his kingdom. We believe as Christians that Jesus smashed Satan's kingdom and chained Satan.
So when I think of like the origin story, let's say of Lucifer, of of the devil, would it be accurate to bring in the Garden of Eden? Because I I, correct me if I'm wrong, my understanding is many Christian commentaries will look at the snake. And whereas Judaism would say this is what's called the Yetzer Hara or the Yetzer HaTov, the inclination towards evil or the inclination towards good, which is this internal battle that each human being must overcome. Some would say that no, the the nahash, the snake literally is the devil himself. This is where we first see the devil appearing in the Bible. Is that an accurate characterization?
We would say that we would say that that was Lucifer/Satan who tempted Eve and Adam. Uh, and uh, was we call him also the father of lies. There was no, there are no lies in God, of course, in heaven, whatever. Uh, so Satan was the first one to lie and he lied and manipulated Adam and Eve and sadly, they they bought it. So, yeah, we would say that that uh uh, the evil spirit in the Garden of Eden was in fact a real being, Lucifer, and continues to torment and afflict and tempt people uh down through the ages. So, yeah. And in fact, that image of a serpent, it's very interesting. For example, in an exorcism, uh, many times when the person starts manifesting a demonic presence, they will actually start squirming and and writhing like a snake. Uh, and there have been others, for example, and many times when you start exercising a person, uh, especially if they've been cursed or whatever, they will start ejecting things out of their bodies. And one thing in in the tradition that that has happened in the past, at least, say, anyway, is some people actually, a snake comes out of their body, which is kind of gross. Uh, but there are all sorts of things. So that that image of a snake is simply more, we would say, more than just simply a symbol, but but really a a very direct uh image of Lucifer or Satan, the serpent.
I definitely want to ask you about the practicalities of an exorcism and what you have seen firsthand. But I also want to make sure I understand the theology first. So I I would agree with you. I mean, the Talmud says this explicitly. They have this saying in Aramaic that all that God does, God does for the best, right? God is benevolent. Um, he he loves us so much. He has infinite mercy and infinite compassion. When you talk about the devil, this might just be a rudimentary or elementary way of asking the question, but for what purpose did Satan manipulate Adam and Eve? For what purpose does the devil create evil? Like, what is the ultimate goal in him doing this?
Yeah. Well, let's first talk about why God allows it. That's the first question, I think. Why? Because people say, well, this God of yours is all good and all loving. Why is God allow Satan to do these things? And that's a very difficult question for people. It's a part of a larger question of why does God allow evil? Back to the beginning. Why does God allow evil? He does not will it. He does not want people to go to hell. We'd call Sheol, whatever, what do you want to call it? Uh, but rather that sadly, we choose it and we implement it. So the evil in the world is is a result of what we do, not what God does. And so uh, and what's Satan's role? Well, it's not part of God's plan. What Satan does is not part of God's plan, but he allows it. But what see, this is the the thing we'd say about God is that God takes everything and and he raises up into his kingdom and transforms it. So we would say, for example, the death of Jesus, which is the worst, we would say, would be the worst crime ever committed, crucified on the cross, he turned that sacrifice of love into the moment of we call salvation. What does God, so why does God allow demons that beat you up and tempt you? It creates a chance to exercise virtue, virtue to strengthen you. Uh, and ironically, when the demons hate this, is that uh, even what they do indirectly contributes uh to God's kingdom because God is God and not the demons.
So when we talk about possession then, for example, are you implying that if one is more prone to possession if they stray from the words of God, or if they engage in demonic forces, things like, I don't know, witchcraft or voodoo, things that you know, don't have any authority in the New Testament or the Old Testament, like, can someone be more prone to possession, or is it just this randomness occurring in the physical world?
Not random, not random. Satan doesn't do random. Demons don't. He's got a plan. He's got a plan. And right, one is much more vulnerable to becoming possessed. In in Deuteronomy, I think it is, where it calls says witchcraft and sorcery and that sort of thing is what's called an abomination, an offense against the Lord, an offense against God's God being God. And it's a it's a way of worshiping false idols. So what happens is is when you start worshiping false idols, when you start connecting with and imple, you know, being part of Satan's plan, doing witchcraft, sorcery, and all that kind of stuff, that's a huge opening. And that's the problem of today. So many young people think, "Oh, I'm a good witch." There's no such thing as good witchcraft. The Bible, you know, read read the uh Deuteronomy, it's an abomination. And all sin, especially those sins, open one, open one's self up to to Satan's actions.
It It's interesting you say that because of course, you're right that the Hebrew word for abomination is to'evah, and there are very few times in the Hebrew Bible that God uses the word to'evah, abomination, to describe something. Often times it'll just say this is a sin or it's the wrong thing to do. But in order to demonstrate or to elevate the severity of that sin, he'll use the word abomination. And I guess if we were just to take your answer and then follow it logically, have you seen an uptick in demonic possessions and in exorcisms given that there is a surge of young people who are engaging in the things you were describing?
Totally. All the exorcists are buried, sadly, in cases. You know, it's the dirt and laugh. It's it's just it's uh, it's we're being buried. And because what what is it that protects you first of all from being possessed? We would say doing holy things. God is your shield. You know, God is your protector. You you you you when you follow the Lord and follow his commands, you are protected. Uh, we especially say Jesus is our protector. Uh, but when you stray, you you let go of it. So what happens is is the people today are are straying from the faith and they are practicing these abominations. And you betcha, we're getting them. We're getting people said, "Oh, I didn't do anything by it. I was just doing the Ouija boards, or I was just doing witchcraft. I was I didn't I didn't mean anything by it. I don't believe in Satan." I don't care if you don't believe in Satan. He believes in himself, and you you invited him into your life. And I didn't. No. No. I did. I said, "Yeah, you did." We would say, "Every time you you cast a spell or or or engage in a medium, a necromancy, you know, connecting with the dead, all those things which are an abomination in Deuteronomy. You do those things, you've offended against the Lord, you move yourself out of his protection, and you're free game for Satan. And we're getting him."
You said there's an increase in the volume of exorcisms you're performing. How many exorcisms is the Catholic Church performing each year?
Not enough. Not enough. Yeah. Well, it's it's a huge problem. I get buried in requests. I'll fly to your diocese. I come. I need help. I need help. I I That's why, by the way, we we do these online prayer sessions. We have another one tomorrow. An online, we'll do them once a month. Online deliverance sessions. We get about 25,000 views of people who pray with us for an hour, and we have over 330,000 followers on social media because the need is intense. Uh, people can't get. There's only 150 exorcists, Catholic exorcists in this country, more or less, and some countries have none. Uh, so uh, where do these people go?
So before we get back into the theology, I do want to ask another practical question. And again, full transparency, my understanding of exorcisms is very much relegated to 1973's The Exorcist. And in fact, there's one particular scene that I'm sure the the audience is familiar with, is when the the parents are asking, why why children? I can sort of understand a demon possessing the president of the United States, convincing him to, you know, launch the nuclear red button against a hostile country, right? Possessing on a grandiose, macro level to really sow chaos and disorder in the world. A nine-year-old child. I mean, what could the theological justification be for why Satan or other demonic forces would be possessing innocent kids? Like, what am I missing?
Those are those are great questions. And you say, "Well, it's not fair." No, it's not fair. Why is it fair that a nine-year-old kid could be possessed? Although, frankly, we don't get too many kids. Uh, and we're very careful about that with parents who are always in the room, very careful with kids, but normally we don't get kids. Well, we do get young people, you know, 18 to 25, 30, because and it's usually not the kids who are at fault. I mean, usually what we found is that when kids are possessed uh, which is again, not too common, by the way, when they do have a demonic thing, it's because their family background has resulted somehow. Sometimes kids do get involved online with, you know, the uh, the occult or whatever, but usually it's part of the whole family background. Parents have, we would believe, an enormous ability to, God-given ability to bless their children and to be a protection and a source of love and care for them. You should pray over your children regularly. You should bless them regularly. The parents' blessing is a very powerful thing for children. Should do it every day. But the flip side's true too. If your parents are into evil, it can have a massive effect on your children. If your mother's a witch, you know, and and I prayed over a woman yesterday whose mother was a witch and she, at a very early age, um, uh, became possessed. Now she's liberated. No, but the parents were were at fault.
I I mean, it's interesting because again, in the Jewish faith, when we move into a new home and we want to inaugurate it, you know, we have what's called the mezuzah. It's literally a blessing over the home. And we're not blessing the home itself, but we're asking God that those who dwell in this home, please bless them. Make sure the conversations are fruitful. Bring, you know, peace and happiness into these walls. So too, I I agree with you. Uh, every Friday night, the parent blesses their child right before we make the kiddush, the sanctification of the wine on the Sabbath. So, just so I understand, and then I I do want to move into the practicals of of the exorcisms, but just so I understand, in the same way that you're suggesting, when people engage in the occult, when they engage in witchcraft, when they buy those Ouija boards, even though they think it's harmless, they can become more prone to possessions, the inverse is also true. If you go to Mass, if you learn the New Testament, if you are uh blessing, if you if you are giving blessings and being blessed, that can also prevent these demonic possessions. Would that be a fair characterization?
Totally. Perfect. Perfect.
So, let let's you got it. Yeah. There's a real connection between uh Judaism and and Catholicism. You know that we are brothers and sisters in the Lord in the one God, and Jesus was a Jew. So was his beautiful mother and the 12 disciples. So there is a very powerful connection between the the Jewish people and the and our faith.
Well, well said. And I have to say, just from a political and historic perspective, American Jews faced discrimination in this country, and so did American Catholics. It wasn't that long ago that President Kennedy had, you know, to disavow, I shouldn't say disavow, but had to separate himself from his Catholicism. So we have a shared history of oppression, and I think we are natural allies and and natural friends in this.
Um, so so let's get into the exorcisms. We don't have to start with the 21st century, and we don't have to start with the modern-day church. We can go to the New Testament itself. I mean, Jesus himself performed exorcisms. Can you tell us a little bit about what those biblical exorcisms were all about?
Well, the Catholic faith, and even even Jesus didn't invent it. Uh, the Jewish people at the time had their own exorcism uh ritual and exorcists. I mean, you remember what Jesus said, if you read that, it said that uh, they accused him of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub or or Satan. He said, "If I cast demons out by the power of Beelzebub, by whom do your people cast them out?" And even in the letters of Paul, there were there were magicians and and exorcists and that sort of thing. So Jesus came into a culture that had already had exorcisms uh and and and other religions did as well. So we didn't invent the idea. But here's what we would say would be unique. That yes, the Jewish people had an exorcism ritual. They oftentimes would read the holy scriptures. They will invoke holy figures. Sometimes they they took uh these kind of roots or vegetables as help. So they had different ways of, you know, of casting out demons. But what we would say in the Christian faith is that Jesus was the definitive uh figure that that smashed Satan's kingdom as the God-man. He was the strong man who who broke Satan's kingdom and destroyed it. So we would say he, and so when you see the biblical exorcisms, he is basically basically says he, by his own authority, I cast you out. He didn't invoke other saints. He didn't give them roots. He didn't, no. He said by his own authority, he cast them out. And so when I do my work, I say, look, I, as a priest, as the uh, delegated by the church, God's authority from Jesus, I invoke the authority of Christ. That's how we do it. No questions asked. It is Jesus working through the church whose own authority cast them out.
So, if you can speak to those who are suspect of some of these claims, how would you, when you get the call, how would you separate from a genuine demonic possession that warrants an exorcism versus mental instability, hallucinations, delusions? How do you know you're dealing with the devil versus you're dealing with someone who's just unwell?
Yeah. First of all, I'm not too worried about people don't don't like what we do or believe what we don't. So what? No, but if you got demons, you're you're going to Yeah. You're going to this going to be important to you. And I tell bishops, I say, "Look at when we finish exercising someone and they're by the grace of God liberated, we hope." And uh, they have they have been uh, they're sitting in the front pews because they know uh that demons exist and they know how the demons were were cast out. I had a case where a guy who wasn't Catholic, he was a Protestant of some ilk, calls me up. He bought a house. You the question of houses being possessed or infested. Calls me up and said, "We got this house in like August, September, whatever. The guy before us who lived there, he died in like April or May or something. He was into the occult. Sadly, he was abusing minors and he did a lot of evil things. He dies. We move into the house and it was like a bad movie. I mean, there was all sorts of stuff going on, things flying around, temperature drops, howling, uh, the dogs going nuts, all sorts of doors opening and windows opening, slamming, just place out of control. His his family were not believers, although he was a little bit. They were so frightened at night. They were all sleeping in the master bedroom, you know, by the together. And he was terrified. So I said, look, I said, I listened to what he said. But I said, "M demons." So I called the local priest up. I said, "Listen, Father, could you could you go and exercise the house?" He says, "Well, I'm going on vacation tomorrow." I said, "This is kind of important." I said, "Would you?" He said, "Fine. God bless." Yeah. He goes, and I tell him what to do. Look it. Say the Leo XIII prayers. Throw some holy water around the whole place. Cast out the demons. So he does that. And then I asked the the the guy a couple days later, I said, "How's it going?" He said, "About 80% of it's gone, but there's still some." So the priest comes back two weeks later after vacation. I said, "Father, go back to the house and finish it up." So he goes, prays, blesses it, casts out the demons finally. That was about five, six, seven years ago. And uh, and the house is fine. They're fine. But uh, he he said that my and my family are in the front pews of the church every Sunday. Sure. Because they learned they learned the hard way. Uh, that that really does exist. So uh, most people have no real direct contact with demons in a real uh extraordinary way. They get tempted, but they don't get possessed. But but for those who do have such problems, you know, uh, there's help there.
I I do just want to understand though, because to your point, you said we're not performing enough exorcisms in the United States. But let's say you get a call from a family in Arkansas, and and they really do believe that there is a legitimate claim of demonic possession. What are the first steps you're taking in order to ensure that this is the real deal? That they don't need a psychiatrist, they don't need a mental evaluation, they need a priest. What is like step one as an exorcist that you are undergoing?
First of all, I'm a licensed psychologist. I've been practicing psychology for 35 years.
Wow. So uh, yeah, I got I know the real uh. So now I I've worked in that field for 35 years as a psychologist, so it's helpful to me because uh, I can really discern the difference between a possession and and someone's mentally ill. And a lot of people come to us are mentally ill. So the first thing we do is we give them a, you know, six or seven-page background form. They fill it out, and I'll go through it, or one of the staff will go through it, and we'll look for signs of real demonic presence or or mental illness. And again, a lot of people, sadly, are mentally ill. They think it's demons, and it's not. So that's the first step at sort of weeding them out. Step two is we pray over them. uh uh, sort of uh, as a discernment. And uh, typically we'll do it online first before we even meet the person face to face. So we'll pray with them online. We'll do some. And then we're going to look for real demonic presence. We're we're not going to do a solemn exorcism unless I am, as the church says, morally certain that this person has demons. And it's not just enough for you to start screaming and yelling every time I throw holy water on. H I'm going to look for something that's really preternatural. Uh, and so, and working in this field, I've been about 19 years. You you do have a sense of what is preternatural and what is psychological.
So So let's talk about that just for a moment. The the physical manifestations that you were alluding to earlier, whether it's, you know, coiling up like a snake, whether it's vomiting things. Number one, I'm just fascinated. What are some of the things that you have seen? And again, my perception, and I would imagine the perception of a significant amount of the American people, is 1973's Exorcist, and they're seeing, you know, a girl levitating. You're seeing a girl walking backwards down the stairs. Are you saying that this is not just Hollywood, but these are things that you have seen as well? Things that are just not explained through scientific or medical ways?
Well, people levitating is unusual. It does happen. It's unusual. Uh, but what you're looking for, well, of course, the four classical signs, three or four, if I can remember them all: aversion to the sacred, uh, superhuman strength, uh, knowing uh foreign languages that they don't speak, and having what we known as occult knowledge. They know things they shouldn't know, but they learn it from demons. For example, a woman said, a young woman said to me uh years ago, and she had these strange bruises and scratches on her, and they they couldn't explain it. And so I I brought her in, prayed over her. She she reacted a little bit to the prayers, but not much. And I, she twitched this three times, and I remember telling the the her parish priest, I said, "I'm not going to perform an exorcism on someone who twitches three times," even though you know. So she goes back, and then six months later, the priest calls me up and says, "She knows things about us that she can't know." She was speaking to a priest on the phone, and she knew what he was wearing, what he was doing, all sorts of stuff. No, she had this uh occult knowledge of this guy. I said, "Bring her back up." So I pray over the pray over her, and she starts manifesting and then she starts writhing, uh, responds to the prayers in a violent way, and and also that that what we call morphing, that look on her face. It was no longer her. It was another being that was full of this rage, this this uh super rage, and just, if when you see that look, you go, we call it the look. When you see the look, you go, whoa. Yeah. So you add all these things up, and then you start praying over the person, and you and then you know, you couldn't hold her down. The big tough guys trying to, you know, so uh, yeah, she was possessed. Thank God, she's liberated now. But but we we need to see signs like that, or we're not going to perform an exorcism.
I mean, so you have seen little girls with superhuman strength, were able to restrain the power of, you know, men trying to hold her down?
We got one, she couldn't weigh 100 lb soaking wet, you know, and we got four guys trying to hold her down. She picked her arm up and lifted. This guy, he probably weighs 200 lb, off off the floor. He go, it can be dangerous, actually. So, we got we need to be careful, you know. Uh, and I've got I've been I've had concussions. I've been knocked across the room, you know, different things, you know. So you got to be careful of h.
Have you ever seen levitations?
I have a friend of mine, actually, has. We've had people start to kind of go, you know, go up, but we won't let them do it. So we stop it immediately. I because here's the reason why we've stopped it. She starts, you know, they start they start moving up. You go in Jesus' name, knock it off. The reason why they do that, they're trying to take control of the session. I want to impress you, like we're so powerful, you know, or what? No, no, we don't. No, we don't. We stay in control of the session. And if you let someone levitate like all the way up, you know, you've lost control of the session. You're you're we don't do that.
So, you have seen the beginnings of levitations. You're not impressed by it. So, you suppress it?
Well, our Yes. Our team has said, "Yes, we we have cases like that, whatever, and we suppress it to meet them." No, we stay in control. Well, this is, look at this is not a comedy hour, nor this is sort of a a sort of a a movie. No, this is we're not, you know, this is not uh curiosity time. This is cast out demons time. I tell the exorcists, if you don't, and I train exorcists, if you don't control the session, the demons will. So, don't let them do that. Keep their mouth shut and don't let them do any sort of strange things that that uh, because they'll try to dazzle you with, they'll throw things across the room. Yeah. I've we had a session, you know, some time ago where they took a crucifix. It was just by itself, you know, launched across the room. Why are they doing that? They're trying to frighten you and intimidate you. And my response that is that the bet you got, you know, that's like a 12-year-old. Come on. You know, you throwing a crucifix across the room. Like,
So when when you see a possessed individual speaking multiple languages at the same time, when you see them with superhuman strength, when you see them levitating, it doesn't impress you? I mean, what how what else would you be impressed by?
I'm 75 this year. I'm old and I'm tired. I'm not I'm not interested. I'm not just really demonic antics. That's what we call them, demonic antics. Yeah, they really know it's and and all they talk about is demonic garbage. You know, people want to hear what demons have to say, you know, like, "Oh, isn't that interesting? Demons tell us this. Demons tell us nonsense. It's demonic garbage." They'll manipulate you. We don't let them talk except to answer the questions which I can legitimately ask. How'd you get in? Who are you? How many are there? Uh, how can we get rid of you? And when are you leaving? That's it. I don't want to know anything else from you. I had one time that well, was not that long ago, they tried to say, "We're going to tell you all the things of the the priests and the your religious community that are that are not living a holy life and they're all, you know, doing all sorts of terrible things." We're I said, "Close your mouth."
I'm not interested and I don't want to hear anything from demons. Just answer my questions and that's it. Nothing more. I I guess I'm curious both on a theological and a practical level. Why would a demon cooperate with you when you say, "What can we do to get you out?" Why would the demon respond?
They don't. But but at times, God will force them. So they will, they are liars from the beginning. Uh, they will not tell the truth. We say Jesus is the way and the truth and the life. You know, truth comes from God. Uh, and so demons are liars, father of lies. They won't tell the truth. And so you even have to be careful. You you say, "In Jesus' name, I command you to tell me the truth." Now, frankly, most of the time it doesn't work. But there are cases where they will. So it's up to God whether demons are forced to tell the truth. But even there, be very careful because if they can, they'll lie.
So so let's get into the specifics then. So you've you've validated, you've provided legitimacy and credibility that this is a genuine demonic possession. How many, for lack of a better term, sessions are there? How long does it take to excise the demon? What are you actually doing? You mentioned you're sprinkling holy water. You mentioned often times there are verses or prayers you'll recite. Is there a formula for each possession or each situation is just different?
Well, uh, most of the cases that come to us, we screen out, do not possess. And of the ones that do have demons of some uh, most of them are not fully possessed. We we call them obsessed, oppressed, whatever. They have a lesser form. So most of the cases come to lesser forms, and I would say, you know, five to 10 sessions, uh, pretty much cures up most of them. So that's great. I mean, you know, the the lesser forms. But if someone's fully possessed, and that's the minority, there are some, we have a couple handfuls or so. Uh, then then we do a solemn exorcism. And I would say my experience has been six months to five years, you know, of regular sessions. Uh, because there, at at that point, they're pretty entrenched. And and it takes time. And you, what do we do? Yeah. The church, again, this is not magic. You know, people say, well, if you say the exact right, no, this is not magic. Why does it work? Because we believe that Jesus gave his authority to the church, who gives it, delegates it to the exorcist, and we pray the prayers of the church, which there is a rite of exorcism. Uh, so in the Catholic faith, it's a little more organized than say, in in the Jewish faith, that that we have. There's an organized ritual and rite and a training program. Uh, but essentially, actually, if you look at the the prayers of exorcism, you'll see that 90% of it is is the Bible. So remember what the the Jewish people do in their exorcisms. They were reading the scriptures, the holy scriptures. This is the word of God. You know, it's holy, you know, in this in the same way we would say with our New Testament, we'd call it that. And we'd say, and we we say these prayers which are full of of uh the word of God. And the demons can't stand it. They they just, anything holy, uh, is abominable to the to the demon. They can't stand anything holy. Now, this is an interesting point. Why is why are demons live in hell? Why do the damned live in hell? Isn't God merciful? My answer to that is yes. If you take a demon, for example, and just touch it with a little bit of something holy, hold up a crucifix, you know, uh, put this priestly stole on it, you know, uh, a little bit of holy water, anything holy. The demons start screaming. They can't stand anything holy. Why? Because they rejected God. And anything holy comes from the Lord. So hell is their place because they rejected God and can't stand being in God's presence. And now they're away from God, you know, by their own choice. And frankly, if you took them and put them in God's presence, people say, "Well, we should take the damned and the and the demons and put them in God's presence in heaven." You that would be a suffering that they would it would be that would be unmerciful.
Let's go back then. If these demons are incentivized to leave and to possess the human uh body, have you ever met or encountered the same demon multiple times during your exorcisms?
Your question earlier, I let's let's before we get to that, the question is why do demons possess people? Why? We believe that uh, of course, demons hate God. That's one thing that's very clear. Demons hate God, hate Jesus, hate anything holy, and are going to spend their eternity screaming at God, blaming God, and trying to lash out at God. Now, they can't lash out at God because they can they can't do anything to God. So, uh, they lash out at his creatures as a way of trying to get back to him. Also, they're full of rage and violence. Uh, they are evil. Uh, they're shot through with evil. They they desire to kill, destroy, maim, and and to to pervert. So that's just who they are. And they're going to spend their eternity in hell, you know, uh, being raging and violent. Um, also, oh, interesting. I was at an exorcism some time ago, and I don't know why I said this. I looked at I said, "In Jesus' name, tell me, why won't you leave?" And the demons go, "I like it here. I like it here." Well, that's probably better than hell. I mean, I like it here. You I said, "Well, too bad."
So So is each demon that you interact with, are these different demons, or are you experiencing the same one often?
Well, uh, typically there are the the the major lieutenants in hell, you know, the the the biblical names. Beelzebub, you know, for example, Beelzebub, Leviathan, a Jezebel, a lot of the famous names you you encounter again and again. But then, of course, there there are billions and billions of of demons in hell. And so the the the lower ones are coming and going, you know, but the big names tend to reappear. Yeah.
I I have to ask though, cuz I'm reminded of the the quote from Psalms. Though I walk, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil because you are with me. Again, my my frame of reference unfortunately is influenced significantly by Hollywood. But when I think of the films and I don't know, Insidious, Poltergeist, it it's very scary. I mean, this is fascinating to hear it from you, but I'm imagining, you know, this this dark, eerie room where a child or an individual is going through real suffering. How do you, as someone who's performed so many exorcisms, do you not get scared? Do do you not feel a demonic presence? Do you not feel this overwhelming sense of evil in a room? I mean, I I get scared watching the movie Chucky about a possessed doll, and you're actually experiencing possessed people.
If you're sensitive at all, I mean, if you develop some spiritual sensitivities, I mean, it it it's ugly. There's no question about it. It's ugly. And the more sensitive you are, the more you feel that dark evil thing. I think probably all of you have done that. I would say when people are listening, if you've been to a place that's full of evil, you walk into that place and you go, "Oh," you know, and uh, and you kind of feel the darkness and evil involved. So, yeah. But but here's the thing. People say, "I get I get frightened." Well, we all get a little bit nervous and things go bump in the middle of the night, you know, but no, not an exorcism because here's the thing. Well, for example, we had one case where Lucifer himself was present, and that's not normal, but people say that they No, mostly. No, no, he usually is not physically present himself. This case, he was. And we finally got down to him. He was at the end. And some water on him, held up a crucifix, he started screaming. And one of the other priests was impressed. He said, "I can't believe that Lucifer himself uh would be tormented by the things of the Lord." And and that's that gives you the great confidence. You realize that Jesus is Lord, not Satan. Jesus is the God-man. He is Lord and Savior. He has crushed Satan's kingdom. Satan's dust compared to Jesus. As long as I'm protected by Jesus, as long as I'm inside his uh umbrella, I'm fine. I'm fine. Now, if I start going outside and doing bad things, well, you know, you're in trouble. But Satan's dust compared to Jesus. He's howling. He's screaming. He can't take it. A little bit of holy water, you know, he starts screaming. Why should I be afraid of him? He's nothing.
I just want to understand because it seems like you're you're stating something quite profound. So you have seen Lucifer?
People often will say that uh, I have Lucifer present. No, not he's he's always manipulating. He's a control freak. He's manipulating everything behind the scenes. But usually not physically leading the charge. In this particular case, he was physically leading the charge. It was a huge case and it was very, and I'll never see that again. It only happened once. And uh, yeah, I know he was. As a matter of fact, halfway through the exorcism, I came where Beelzebub was the uh, the out-front demon lead.
Who's a high-ranking demon, by the way? And I, I, I, Jesus, I command, tell who's who's a, who's a capo, who's ahead of this thing. I, I need to know that because when you get rid of the, the chief, then they all go. He said, "You're not ready for this, Rosetti. It's the Prince of Hell, the King of Hell himself. You're way out of your league. It's, it's Lucifer, or what they called him. You're way out of your league." I kind of went, "Whoops." So I said, I, I caught myself. "Yeah, that's true. He's way out of my league. But he's not out of Jesus' league. And in Jesus' name, I command him to leave." So again, I'm a coward. I have to be, I'm behind Jesus. Jesus got it. Not me. I'm just an instrument, you know. I, I've got no authority and power over demons, but Jesus does. And I, and I wield that authority in the church.
>> So when you say Beelzebub or Jezebel or Lucifer or whomever, how do you know which demon you're dealing with?
>> Well, if God makes them tell the truth, which normally I don't get the names, most cases I do not get a name, but but the number that you do. I'll say, "In Jesus' name, I command it." *Da mi nomen*. It's in the old rite of exorcism, which we use from time to time. *Da mi nomen*. Tell me your name. The day and the hour you're going to leave. Why do you stand or resist? So tell me your name. And when you know the name of the, the demon, it gives you a little more power over them. So then I'll use it. I'll say, "In Jesus' name, I command Beelzebub to leave." And when he hears his own name, he kind of cringes. You know, see, it's beating him up.
Have you ever seen directly or know other exorcists who've seen the devil manifest in a physical presence on earth?
>> No. No. No. Uh, you know, there's a vision of, of a demon. Let me say this about that. People realize how ugly, uh, evil is. Your worst depiction on Hollywood doesn't come close to how ugly and evil demons are because that's how ugly and evil sin is. And why is sin so ugly and evil? Because there's an offense against the one who is infinitely loving and holy. So the, the offense against someone who is infinitely holy and loving like our God is, uh, is a complete offense. And and and they're, as they're said, they're blacker than black. Demons are blacker than black. They're, they're. One great mystic, St. Fina, had a, was given by God a vision of hell, and she talked about the seven sufferings of hell. And one of the greatest sufferings of hell was the vision of Satan. If the vision of God, our beautiful, loving, compassionate God, is heaven, our goal is, uh, an incredible, infinite gift that we don't deserve, but he offers it to us. The vision of Satan, which you see in hell, is one great mystic said, who was granted just a snippet, a vision of that. She, she said, "I would go through all the sufferings on earth again, walk over fires of coal, rather than one glimpse of Satan again." Yeah, it's, uh, so we don't for that's hell to to to see, uh, Satan or Lucifer. Now, we run into him in a spiritual way, sure. Uh, but fortunately, God does not allow us to see him.
>> So, have there ever been exorcisms that you've performed personally that have actually failed, and that either the devil or the demons just overwhelmed you spiritually?
>> I had one that was close that, that I was, I was, I had a hard time staying in the room. Uh, that it was, uh, there's a variety of reasons why it got so, uh, bad. But by the time I got the case, it was, uh, in fact, they blew me out of the room, it was so, so bad. But that finally, it got, got better. So it's good. Uh, now, they always win, uh, if the person cooperates. And and because it's a process of sanctification and purification. People say, "Why doesn't it just throw them out like Jesus did?" Well, who knows? But we believe that that it's, it's a process of conversion. It's not magic. We say the prayers of the church. We invoke the authority of Christ, and the person slowly, slowly, slowly becomes holier and an unwelcome guest for the demons. You know, when you, you s, the person becomes sanctified, uh, the demons can't stay. They can't stay there anymore. They have nothing to grab onto. So, uh, but Tom, sometimes people will will quit. But although not too often, uh, sometimes they won't, uh, assume or get rid of, uh, their sinful ways, and that's, you got to do it. You can't, you can't be living in sin, you know.
>> But sometimes it'll take long, or sometimes it'll take some years.
>> So have you ever been physically injured during an exorcism by a demon? And if so, can you provide some examples or details?
>> Well, I mean, I don't want to go into all the details. I got kicked and knocked over and had a little concussion, you know. But but, uh, that's not normal. But you got to be careful. Uh, you know, we've had people got scratched and, uh, guys got sucked, you know. So, uh, yeah, I just got to watch out. Uh, but usually what happens, I'll look him in the eye. I'll say, "In Jesus' name, knock it off. In and in Jesus' name, you may not touch me." And 99.9% of the time, that works. But the 0.1%, you got to be careful. You know, you got so, but usually they don't, uh, they don't hurt you.
>> And I, I, I just want to understand, and then then I'll move on and and wrap this conversation up. But what, what you are describing in the last, however many minutes, this is not a fringe position. This is not a radical belief. It is a real problem that real priests like yourself have to actually exorcise a demon out of. Is that an accurate portrayal?
>> Yes. Father Gabriel Mor was a famous exorcist in Rome years ago. I think he died about about 50 years ago, 40, whatever. Uh, and one supposedly one Vatican cardinal came to him and said, "You know, Father Mor, I don't believe in all that exorcism and demon stuff. It's just a bunch. It's just a metaphor." He said, "Your Eminence, I've got a book I want you to read." He said, "Really?" He said, "Yeah, what book is that?" The Bible.
>> That's good.
>> If you take out all the references to the demons and exorcisms, uh, the New Testament, what we call the New Testament, it'll look like Swiss cheese. You know, you can't, you can't believe as a Christian, whether you're Catholic or Protestant, or you Orthodox, whatever, you simply cannot read the Bible and then come out and saying that Jesus didn't do exorcisms or Jesus didn't believe in demons. That just, uh, you're, you're, you're doing violence to the Bible. It's, it's, it's a very clear. Jesus did exorcisms. It was part of his ministry, and it was part of him ushering in the kingdom of God. It was not ancillary. It was just not, it was not an ancillary ministry. Casting out demons and smashing Satan's kingdom was, especially in the Gospel of Mark, was an integral part of ushering in the kingdom of God in Jesus' day and in ours.
>> Is there, you've given a lot of different examples and stories. Is there one particular incident, open miracle, exorcism that you performed that really animated your belief in Jesus that you would want to share with our audience?
>> Well, I would say the first thing I want everybody to know, uh, and the one thing that Hollywood does not understand and why you're, you can't believe I'm not terrified and frightened and all that kind of stuff. Jesus, Lord, Satan's dust. That Hollywood can't understand that. You know, demons are powerful, but compared to Jesus, you're going to be fine. So, don't, don't, don't be too worried about demons. You know, just trust in Jesus. He's got your back. You know, you'll be fine. So, don't, don't, don't lose any sleep over this whole thing.
>> But yeah, I've had a few cases. I've had a couple, two which are really eye-watering cases which, uh,
>> were a blessing and
>> well, I, I've talked about the one that Lucifer was present, and that really kind of, if you had any doubt what the whole thing was about, boy, that case brought it all home. And it really was instructive in many ways. The cases I've had have have instructed me, uh, as much as the background training of of what happens. And what, and this is real. The, I would say the, the grace of be of this, uh, ministry is one is helping people to be freed, which is just a joy. And also, you experience the truths of the faith. Now, remember, Shabbash, you're talking to a Catholic priest. Everything that the Catholic Church teaches these days in the catechism, I, I find, uh, affirmed in an exorcism. Power of Christ, the power of the church, power of the priesthood, saints, angels, relics, uh, you know, sacramental, sacraments, all those things. Uh, you see them, uh, acted out and experienced. And so it confirms your faith. It really has confirmed my faith. I, I've seen that Jesus cast out some pretty ugly demons, and I've seen people liberated from some very ugly stuff. And you're seeing things happen, you know, things fly across the room and, and all people, you know, knowing foreign languages and all sorts of things they shouldn't know. So, you see these things you simply can't explain naturally. You can't explain, uh, when you look at the spiritual and the spiritual reality of the church. So, it's been a blessing for me, a grace, uh, of 19 years. Them hoping to retire one day.
>> Well, if if you retire, who's going to be performing all the exorcisms? You said you're understaffed anyway.
>> Yes, we need more priests, but we've got a bunch of, you know, the seminaries are not empty. Uh, and we actually have vocations. We just ordained a bunch of people in the archdiocese of Washington last two years. So, and these younger guys have kind of got it. You know, uh, my generation, a lot of the guys didn't believe in demons. They believe in Satan and all. They all thought it was nuts and all that kind. But the younger guys know, they get it. And, uh, I have no doubt that there'll be some very stalwart young guys coming up. And the Lord provides, and we're gonna, we've got some good young priests coming up.
>> So just before I let you go, can you give our viewers, especially our Catholic viewers, any practical prayers or any practical, uh, verses from scripture that they can say to protect them from these demonic forces and from this temptation of of leading astray?
>> Well, we on our website and app, we have oodles of great prayers, uh, from the church. So, we recommend people go www.catholicexorcism.org, catholicexorcism.org, or an app, Catholic Space Exorcism. And we have lots and lots of prayers there and lots of videos and all sorts. So, there's, there's lots of online resources we have in our YouTube channel as well as in our app and website. Hmm.
Monsignor, this has really just been a fascinating conversation. I thank you not just for making the time on on this show, but everything you've been doing to provide a more spiritually fulfilling life for people all over the world. So, thank you again.
>> A pleasure. We thank, thanks be to God, and, uh, God bless you.