Transcription
This could not be a worse situation and a more more of a of a malfunction of a situation. Then, then, then we have seen in a very long time. This is a window on exactly, exactly who he is. And, and, and on his serious limitations as, as a, as a president and as an intelligence. There was no goal. It was like, we have a lot of we're stronger than they are. So we'll be able to come out of this looking better than they. And then they do will be, will will win. How could we not win that? There was never a definition for him of winning except winning. Winning.
Michael. Joanna! You're back. Where? Where were you? I was in Montana. I was in Montana. I was I was breathing in some Yellowstone, inspired by Taylor Sheridan's shows. I'm big into his new show, madness. And actually, partly, well, entirely because of Michelle Pfeiffer. Thank goodness he's brought her back. I don't like his portrayal of female characters. Well, I love I have a show. So you like this? I everything I've read about about this Madison makes it sound terrible. So all you have to do is watch Michelle Pfeiffer. The question is, it's not about the show. It's about do you like Michelle Pfeiffer or not? Because if you do, just it's like watching an Instagram video of her. It's just fantastic. It's all about her hair, sunglasses, her coat. So I take this that you like Michelle Pfeiffer? I love Michelle Pfeiffer. I'm so grateful he's brought her back. From where was she? Like, how do you even remember Michelle Pfeiffer? Yeah. Casino. Yeah, a long word. What are we, the 80s? Maybe. Maybe. Anyway, she's back and I'm thrilled. And the show itself, it's like all his shows. It's kind of cartoony, but, beautiful countryside. He's the only guy working in television, and he's not doing the, familiar L.A. or New York tropes. It's it's something fresh. Anyway, that's not why I think those are called Trump tropes. Trump tropes. Okay, they may be called Trump tropes, but I'm back. I'm excited to talk to you. I missed the whole Sharpie thing when we were talking before the podcast. I suggested we did the Sharpie thing and you were like, you are so out of touch. That's been everywhere that we're not seeing the Sharpie. Yeah, we're not doing that.
So, Michael, are you going on a No Kings protest? Yeah. The children are looking forward to it. Yes. Where we will be there. East Hampton, East Hampton. I was once in the East Hampton Book Hampton store on Main Street when a ton of trucks came through waving flags, and they were all Trumpers and they were all hooting, and it was oddly ominous. Actually, I've always thought I wouldn't be impacted by something like that. And it was oddly, oddly sinister. Before the election. Yeah. The Hamptons, which you would think is a, is a Trump free zone. That is not actually true. And Long Island is is a quite, a quite a Trump enclave. Oh, I think there were lots of Trump fundraisers, lots of Trump fundraisers in Southampton. Well, the billionaires are not on their trucks with their, with their Trump flags trade. That's another. So there, another segment, another demo that what we should do that the billionaires for Trump actually. But I know you've got things to say. I know you've got things to say. Not least that why are we paying any attention to what Trump's saying? Because we can't avoid it. But he just makes no sense whatsoever. It's one thing after another, none of which holds together. Yeah.
I mean, I think it's been an interesting Trump character couple of days. I mean, I mean, the I mean, the Sharpies are a are a point because that was like, oh my God. You know, there was this moment this week on this voting. So, I mean, I mean, Trump has been adamantly, of course, against mail in voting since, about, against mail in voting. And, and without concern, he mailed in his bill in his vote to, to Palm Beach and and that and he was followed by his his wife also mailed in and his son home mailed in their votes. And, and obviously people said, wait a minute. And effectively, his response was, and let me not overstate this, but I think the response was, I can do fuck all that I want. And, and really, let's, let's just kind of clear the debris here. That is what he said. That is the rationale. I'm the president of the United States. I can do this. And the fact that I am opposed to this for everyone else has no bearing on what I do. Now, how that has not become, how the country does not respond to that and say, Holy cow, wait a minute. This is really not how it is supposed to be on no King's day. Let's add, but, but he is transparent about what he is doing here. This is what you're borrowing. America, the world. This is what it is. I can do what I do, I can do fuck all because I can.
Well, and also, it's the sort of hypocrisy in the olden days. I don't even know when the olden days were that that would have appalled people. And that. Do you think it's just that people are saturated by this? Actually, the interesting thing is there is no hypocrisy here. This is not I mean, he is not saying he's not inventing a rationale here. I mean, he is saying I am, I am, I have I can do anything I want to do. Of course. Why would you think otherwise? Well, that's that's hypocritical in it's one law for you and it's another law for me. But but the, the bigger question is why don't people care? And is it because they just assume this is baked in with Donald Trump and ultimately he might be good for taxes, or he might be better for them, and they just put up with the kind of nonsense and the and the noise. Is that what's going on here? Yeah, I suppose it is. But even within that context, I think you have to ask. And actually, part of the answer to that, it is that that he has disastrously low, low polling numbers. So it is not I mean, the country does recognize this and say, Holy cow. I mean, what is going on here? I mean, this is is we're we're in this exceptional moment and we have to make a decision about it. But this was also, no, go ahead.
No, I was I was also just going to say that I do think with the war in particular, he seems to have lost his messaging ability. Well, let's not go. Don't go to the war. Exactly. Because I think that there was this other example which actually goes goes is more more thematically, adjacent. Yeah, thematically matches the, I can vote where I can do any kind of voting and then in this was, I'm going to sign the dollar, I'm going to sign the dollar. I mean, I, I am going to put my name on the dollar. So which is the first time an American president has done that? To be clear, for those who don't follow the patterns on the on the dollar bills. So, and and again, why are you doing that? Why are you doing that? There's only one reason he is doing that because he can. Well, because he wants dominance over all things. And I know you just clearly said, don't go to the war. I'm going to go to the war. In terms of what? What did he say yesterday at the investor conference he was speaking at? Well, you know, the Strait of Hormuz. Trump. I mean, who knew? You know. Yeah. So I mean, just the naming, which we've discussed ad nauseam on this podcast, but the idea that he would then name the Straits of Hormuz, a wonderful name that we've all just got our heads around to the Strait of Trump, all the Straits of America. We're negotiating now. I'd be great if we could do something, but they have to open it up. They have to open up the Strait of Trump. I mean, Hormuz. Excuse me for. I'm so sorry. It's such a terrible mistake. The fake news will say he accidentally said no, there's no accidents with me. Not too many. If there were, would have a major story.
Well, I'm going to, though. I am going to, suggest, that there is irony there that he was that was a moment. And they do occur of Trump self-awareness. I put my name on everything. So I will suggest that I'm going to put my name on this. So that was Trump at his actually at his best. When you are with Trump, quite often he will hit a note like that and you will think, okay, there, there is he gets it, he gets who he is and he is playing that. And so I, I would say, I would say that was, that was an example of that. All right. That's a generous interpretation. But he but he goes, you know, you know, you think that he does this and then he forgets that this is, that this is irony. Irony then becomes practice with him. Okay. So what's going on inside his head this week? The Save America bill has not passed. He's been voting in the mail, as has his entire family. Something he says he's against. And we're in week five of the war. It's week five today. Those are probably different things. I mean, I think he didn't vote in, he voted by mail. I actually think probably because he's lazy. I mean, he's saying, I don't I don't want to go on. I could do this, but it's so much easier to do this by, by by mail. So fuck all. Forget the fact that I am waging a campaign against against this. And because in the end, and this is a Trump, a Trump thing, he is lazy. He doesn't really care. He doesn't have a lot of follow through. And if it's better for him, he's going to he's going to take the easy way out, or almost always. So I think that was just an example of that.
Yeah, I'm going to catch flack for this, but I don't care. I do think he cares about the fact that a Democrat, a young woman called Emily Gregory, won the seat that Mar-A-Lago is in, despite the fact that Trump endorsed her opponent. No, I don't think he cares that much. I mean, I don't think he cares about a lot. He cares about about himself. Are you paying attention to me? And, and even even that woman who won that seat, you know, if, if, if he's in, if that story becomes about him, which it has become about him. He's fine with it. He's fine with it. Okay. So, so the war is also about him. Although we're now it's five weeks since America first started its bombing rates with Israel. What is going on inside his head about the war. Well, I think he's desperate about this. I do not I think he does not know what to do. So it's a moment by moment thing of what? Well, let's try this. We better do that. Why didn't somebody tell me about something that they no doubt did tell him about? I think it's, it's, it's improvisational at the maximum, but I don't really think it's. I think improvisation is is a nice way to think about this. I think he's he's out of control. I think that there is that there is no one in charge here. I think this could not be a worse situation and a more more of a of a malfunction of a situation. Then then then we have seen in a very long time at a high level of government and of, and of policy. I mean, I mean, I think it's I think it is extraordinary. I think that this is a window on exactly, exactly who he is and, and, and on his serious limitations as, as a, as a president and as an intelligence.
Well, I still think the confusing thing is, we don't know what the goal was. Was the goal regime change? Was the goal to stymie oil, to try. And, I disagree. That is clear. What we know is that there was no goal. The goal was haphazard. There was no goal. It was like, we have a lot of we're stronger than they are. So we'll be able to come out of this looking better than they. And then they do will be, will will win. How could we not win? And winning that. There was never a definition for him of winning except winning. Winning.
Okay. So I have a slightly different point of view based on on a conversation, I was eavesdropping with someone who talks to Trump every day or has been talking to Trump every day since the war began. And this person was saying that, in fact, of course, as the plants ridiculous to think there wasn't a plan. There's a six week plan where now, since you don't eat, since you were eavesdropping, you owe nothing to this person. Can you say who it is? I can't say who it is because that that might actually compromise them. But, he said, of course there's a plan. Trump is sticking to the plan. No one expects the the plan has been there for some time. The Israeli intelligence is the thing that allowed them to suddenly go for it, because they realized that they could decapitate the Iranian, leadership that Trump has, in fact, stuck to the plan, even though it doesn't look like he has. But he actually has. They're way ahead in terms of we're all we're all waiting to hear the plan. Well, the plan was to decapitate the leadership. And have regime change. And the regime change is the bit that hasn't yet happened. And no one knows that the Iranians are going to, protest. This is ridiculous. Let's, let's let's look at this, at this plan. The plan did not account for the fact that 20% of the world's oil would be effectively embargoed. The plan then did not account for the fact that even if you kill the the, the top level of, of of leadership, the, the regime itself stays in place. The plan did not then apparently, account for the fact that there is, that this new filler material remains out of reach and will require boots on the ground to get it. So, let me let me see a plan there. What is the plan? To kill the. To kill the guy? Yes. We killed the guy. But that has that in itself has accomplished nothing except the dead guy. Okay, I think the plan was to remove the leadership, and now we have a negotiation window, right? Which is supposed to start this week. Where the Americans. No no no no no, that actually, that was not the plan. Unless he is unable to remember the plan and to, keep on message. So we were unconditional surrender. That unconditional surrender is exactly the opposite of negotiation.
Well, what we do know is Donald Trump talks too much, and he says whatever is in his head in the moment, that doesn't mean we're not still on plan. So basically what's happened is this is what was going asked. This is what's being argued is you overheard, a some somebody who's on board with Donald Trump, who obviously has a need to support this. And there are and there are lots of people remember the, the the then the neocon group is, you know, feels they are getting what they have always wanted. Except except everything's going wrong. But other than that, they have wanted to in a full scale, mighty invasion of Iran, which they have gotten. Okay, that's not who I was talking to. I was talking to someone who by nature of what they do, actually remains neutral, but is involved in it for all sorts of reasons. And, but you were eavesdropping, not talking. I was kind of. I just think I'm just clarifying. I'm trying to be subtle here. I was kind of eavesdropping and, We've largely demolished the military in Iran. What we want back is the enriched uranium. Is this now a window for negotiation? Which was part of the plan? As much as there is any plan once you start bombing a country. And clearly no one understands what's going on with the leadership. And if anyone tells you they do that, that's not true. They don't. Clearly, nobody knows what's going on with the leadership. And it's okay. Well, yeah, that's the problem. So let me just finish. It's unclear who the Trump people are. Jared. Steve Wyckoff, actually negotiating with at this point. But you just said there was a window of negotiation. There's a window for negotiation, which we know Trump has extended to April. The sixth. Right. But we don't know who to negotiate with. That's a hell of a window. But we also. Right. But they must be supplying someone to negotiate with. We just don't know who it is. Hey, the pronoun is the problem. There. They are supplying someone. Who is they? And, Well, the IRGC, the current leadership. Yeah, but we don't know that they they don't accept. We don't know who that is, but that that that I mean, if they are known unknowns, that's part of the unknown unknowns of war, isn't it?
So there was a paragraph in, in the Times story, I think, I think yesterday, that jumble of emissaries, a friend, a family member, a dove and a hawk reflects Mr. Trump's improvisational approach to foreign dealings and his disdain for career diplomats and their often cumbersome protocols. The picture is further muddied by Mr. Trump's stream of consciousness commentary on social media in and before the TV cameras, during which he declares, revises, and sometimes reverses his threats and demands. Okay, that paragraph that is, that is trying to create a, a a, a kind of reasonable, even within an unreasonable situation, a reasonable context for understanding this. He is doing things in a different way than other people were doing. Or other presidents would do them. And and this is confusing to people, but nevertheless, it's a, it's, it's an approach. I mean, it's essentially not that different sounds like from what the person you were sitting next to was saying. But I think that there's another way you take these same facts in this same description and you say, oh my God, this this person does not know which end is up. This person is is wholly incapable of doing what he has to do in this situation that he is in. This person is has completely lost the plot. And we are in deep, deep shit. Right? Clearly. And let me hit the end. Let me hit the New York Times again as I so like to do is that they just they just don't have the language. They have the in in a it's like like forcing the square peg into a round hole. You know, although we see this very clearly and can define this and describe this, yet we still have to come up with a paragraph in which we are not saying, Holy mackerel, this is the end, the end of what? The end of logic, reason and of, sense and sensibility and of, any advantage that we might possibly have been able to come out of this with. Over. We're done. We're cooked.
I mean, the problem is that because Afghanistan and because Iraq went so badly, there is a perfectly logical school of thought of, of well, well, we had all these diplomats and they had a plan and it all went wrong. So why shouldn't we just have Trump go in and bomb the shit out of Iran? That is, there's definitely a school of thought around that. And it's hard to argue that the Iraq war was a good decision from the American people. It's not exactly a school of thought of, from a a prestige school of thought. No, but there are plenty of arguments to try, a different way of bringing a country like Iran. I know there are not there are not plenty of arguments. That is really ridiculous. I mean, all of those arguments have been made, you know, I mean, I, I think you can say for the last 50 years, and they don't work, they are effectively World War Two arguments. I mean, they are they are something that doesn't, you know, I that that in situations in, in which you are it is not it is not principally about one army defeating another. Then then this whole strategy in this whole plan doesn't work. And you, you whatever happens, you end up creating infinitely more problems.
Well, what's the point? I was trying to make was that if you send in two business guys who sell their skills as we're dealmakers, right? And we're going to go in and we're making a deal, and we don't care about what diplomats did in the past. We don't want to know the history of the country. We're going to go in and make deals. The assumption is that the Iranians also want to make deals and also make deals in the same way that Cookoff, as we've nicknamed Steve and Gerard, want to make deals. And what's obviously clear is there is no me running the Iranians in 50 years have shown that the one thing they don't want to do is make deals. Yeah, exactly. Well, that that that's my point, that that's the simple point I'm trying to make that there is enormous dismissal of the experts and the people that understood the culture and the history and why Iran is like it is. So Trump is trying to do something different, arguably a good thing to do, where the problem is he is Trump, and you send into business guys to do a deal in a country where they don't do business like anybody else does business. And that's I I've lost track of the slide that you're on at this point. I'm not really on anybody's side. I'm trying to understand what side work goes. The argument that you're making, that's what I've lost here.
Well, I think the argument I'm trying to make is I'm not quite sure how this gets resolved. Yeah, that that's the problem. That is the problem. I mean, you're not supposed to go into this situation unless you have a pretty good idea how you can get out of it. Well, what do you think? What do you think he thinks? I think it's going to happen. Literally doesn't know I thought I think I think from the beginning he thought, well, okay, fine. You know, we're going to bomb and I can declare victory. And then that became more and more and more difficult. And he made he may just decide, I'm going to do that at any point, of course, but he will have achieved to date. He will have achieved nothing. And, and so and so that will cost him. And any situation is now I stay in and that's going to cost me. I get out and that's going to cost me. So what do I do. Answer I don't know, but it's Donald Trump. So he doesn't really even have the capacity to say, I don't know.
All right, so what what do the people around him do? Because now we're hearing that no one wants to negotiate with Koskoff anymore and that they want J.D. Vance and they might want Marco Rubio. So. So then what happens? Because we know that J.D. Vance didn't think any of this was a good idea. So this is this is good for him in one way, for his political capital. This is a good thing for J.D.. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm not even sure that that that is true. I think I think the idea of, of of who we're hearing are the players is a is is partly an effort to pass the blame around. No, no, nobody wants nobody wants to take responsibility for this. And and it's Trump pushing people in, in front of, in front of of him who was you know, these these become become his his shields. And and then I think that there is probably a reasonable amount among these people of desperation for themselves. We I got to figure this out. We can't let Trump do this because that's a catastrophe. So somebody else has to step up here in tried to, try to bring some acumen and some reason to this situation.
Well, he's extended the window for potential negotiation. We don't know with who through April the 6th. Right. Having said there was no room for negotiation. It was 48 hours. They wanted unconditional surrender. There's also an issue of his leverage there, you know, I mean, he he went into this saying, if you do not negotiate, we're going to wipe out your infrastructure. Which is I mean, I mean, which is in a, a major precedent, probably a terrible precedent, which is being opposed by everybody else in the, in the Middle East, including the Israelis. So, so he's set up this is a strawman. He set up leverage, which he can't use. Right. But but he does that all the time. He just says anything. I mean, you know, if only he would just shut up. I mean, you have talked before and in fact, we did an entire special on the fact that Donald Trump will not stop talking. He can't stop talking. It's also what audiences want. They want to go and hear him talk for the most part, his rallies. He can talk for 90 minutes, two hours a talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. It becomes it's less of an issue during a campaign rally. It's more of an issue when he's talking about war. And if you're one of the Gulf states neighboring Iran, and you're trying to glean any kind of logic from what he's saying, you're not going to get very far.
Yeah, but still, the price of oil goes up. So there there are, I mean, I mean, usually or often he can talk and it doesn't really mean anything. I mean, he produces a headline and that is the reality. But now the reality is the price of oil. Well, and also whether or not, you know, if you're in China, you can get as much oil as you need. I mean, it's good for Russia, right? Because they're suddenly pumping up more oil, but they can't. I mean, there's a whole theory going on that this is all done to squeeze China, that they've stopped Venezuela's oil, they're trying to control oil coming out of Iran. Russia can't produce enough oil for China. This is a backhanded way of getting a China. Well, it gets at us, too, because oil is set on a global on a on a global basis. I mean, so that is, you know, also a completely ridiculous thing and will defeat Donald Trump. So, so the logic here is, oh, I'm going to do this and it will solve that problem, but I'm going to go down in flames because of it. So it makes no sense. You know, I mean, the, the price of oil at and now at a $1.10 or going to a $1.20, or going to 110, going 120, going to, we don't know, a barrel is unsustainable here. It's just unsustainable from a political standpoint. I mean, the politics of this is is staggering, even for Donald Trump. He can't ignore that. And it's possible, but that Trump sort of doesn't care anymore. He's almost in a kind of spiral. You think that's possible? He's in a sort of death spiral, or he's just lurching moment to moment as normal?
Yeah, I don't I mean, I suspect he's looking. How do you play this in a Donald Trump way? Who's my who's going to be my enemy? And I think he's probably starting already to, to conceive of this as he conceives of the, you know, the next and next season's show, he's going to lose the midterms in a really substantial way. So he's now setting up I mean, you can only read the Save America Act, which is not going to pass as a, as a way to set the stage for, for blaming this on voter fraud. Right. Which has worked for him in the past, and he always returns to where he is, what has worked for him in the past. So I think that that's what he's now in his mind. The narrative is, is, is is being reshaped and he'll reshape the narrative to his best advantage.
Well, what do you mean? It worked for him in the past. That became a fulcrum of his of his, 2024 campaign. I mean, in, in a way that what that was the through line of his campaign. They stole the election from me. But but but but the, I don't agree with that at all. I agree that he was using it as a theme, but they lost the he won the election. During that catastrophic debate, when Biden didn't appear to be censured. And then there was then it took the Democrats a month. I completely I, I totally disagree with that. For one thing, there are two parts of the campaign. There's the primary campaign where he wiped out every other Republican. Well, he was largely Ron DeSantis. Right. Who's thoroughly unpleasant. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter. I mean, it was less I mean, there was a smear. It doesn't matter. Nobody else was willing to run against him, against Ron DeSantis, except Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley and a few other whose names are forgotten to history at this point. And partly they they did not run against him because he had set up this election thing as, as a thing. All Republicans had to agree with him. They all had to bow down to that. There was no Republican who was saying, hey, wait a minute, this is a total fraud. He didn't win. Quite the opposite. They were all forced to to, to make make a ritual bow to that which set him up as the essentially, the, the de facto candidate. He had to be the candidate because they stole the election from him. Right. But in the general election, the reason he won is not because the people who came out to vote for him thought that he should have won in 2020. They came out because the Democrats had a series of missteps from the catastrophic debate. It took them too long. It took Biden too long to step aside. They didn't have, an open primary. Biden anointed someone and she couldn't get the momentum she needed. This is this is not true. You know, yes, the Democrats were were were weak, but Trump was remained strong and remain competitive from really from the get go of this of this this campaign. Could the Democrats could the Democrats have have have won if they had handled the Biden thing. Yeah. Yeah yeah sure. There's some there's always more than one factor here. But certainly the, the, the, his, his claim of the 2020 thing, the consistency of, of that theme, his willing to stand up to that even how no matter how wrongheaded it was, and then to stand up to the trials that the Democrats it to the extent that the government and mostly the Democrats put him on trial, created that thing that was that was Donald Trump. He certainly wasn't running away from, from they that but 2020 election denial gibberish.
Well, I agree, it's total gibberish. I would just argue that the trials that people remembered were the Stormy Daniels trial in the Aegean Carol trial. And it turns out people don't think that's disqualifying to be a candidate or to be a president. And I just think it was about process, Michael. All those trials ran together. Well, anyway. It does it doesn't. That is, he has certainly, he has certainly always gone back to the, to the 2020 defeat. He consistently brings this up. It is something that he believes has consistently worked for him. He worked for him because he believes it. He is an aggrieved person. He got the presidency back because it was stolen from him. That's the Trump narrative and that's the narrative. He will return to there stealing the election from me. And the midterms are just, you know, just them once again doing the same thing.
Okay. Before we started this podcast, you disappeared to get another cup of coffee. And I think you've had seven espressos this morning. You are completely on fire. That's just because I'm wiping the floor with you. You haven't thought of this and thought any of this through, but it's not. It's not my coffee. I agree, Roger, okay, I, I agree that that to him this is an important thing and maybe he believes it. Maybe he doesn't believe it that he actually lost the 2020 election. I don't think it's a factor for why people voted for him in 2024. But I do understand that he's anxious he's going to lose the midterms and he's he's sowing the ground to do all sorts of things around doubt over the election process, which is as damaging as anything that you can do. And maybe he uses it as a moment to bring ice into the polling stations. Who knows? I mean, I get that he's doing it. I just don't think that the public buys it. I don't think that's why they voted for him, because they thought he lost the 2020 election and that he's rightfully the president.
Well, the public is not is not going to buy because they're going to actually vote against him in, in, in the, in the midterms. But the public becomes enthralled by his or wrapped up into his narrative because he's very good at this, because he repeats it constantly, because he appears to believe it. Because, because it's something that sustains him. So, so again, it's just that this is what's on his mind. What's in his mind is I have this situation, a bad situation, I have this war. I have this, I have the fact that I'm going to lose these midterms. What do I do? Trump is not someone who who responds to political exigencies with with by revising his policies and, and, and, and in a with a political logic, he responds with a narrative logic. What's the story I can tell about this? What's the story I can tell about this that justifies me, that positions me against someone that, who will be my enemy and that person who, who, who ideally will I can, who will be unpopular. I can make them unpopular. So therefore, I share an unpopular enemy with my with with whoever I'm telling the story to. I mean, that's how Trump operates here. So in terms of what he's thinking about in terms of these problems, that's how he'll respond. He'll he will not respond with, we need a new war strategy. We need a new electoral strategy.
Well, if you respond with a new story, right, right. Just a new plotline. So one of the things that clearly people are going to feel very strongly about, I think by the time we get to the midterms, is what's happening with the health department, with RFK. You've said that he's already being pushed into the background. We know that people want vaccines for their children. Yeah, we know that. People think he's that. RFK Jr turns out not to have been a great hire in that role. No. And I know that he's been calling around and saying and saying saying to people, you know, I hear people say, Bobby is crazy. You think he's crazy? Trump is. Trump is calling around and say, Trump. I believe that Bobby was calling around saying, I hear Bobby is crazy. I'm might crazy. Yeah, that would be no. Trump is saying that. Do you think he's crazy? You think Bobby's crazy? So that is always that that sign, those calls when you can track those calls and he asks the question that he that and, and you know, the answer he wants. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I hear he's a little crazy. Yeah. He seems a little crazy. This vax stuff. He really goes too far. He goes too far. But then I have a more, more, a more interesting tell on this. He's then been saying positive things about, about this kid running for the seat in New York. Schlossberg Donald Trump has said Donald Trump is recommending or saying positive things about the nephew of RFK junior, who was. Yes, he's on the side of his family who came out and attacked RFK Jr said, this is a terrible idea. Exactly. So he's been saying, you know, so, so his, this the kid who's running, he can't quite get the name Schlossberg. The kid who's running for for New York. He says his uncle is crazy. Yeah, it's not his uncle. It's his mother's cousin. But. Okay, his mother's cousin. What is. It's hard to that family. It's so extended, it's impossible to know. And then Trump has so. And then Trump has been saying he seems like that guy seems like like maybe he's a, he's a he's the real the real thing. You know, he's the grandson. So it's all in that, in that, you know, mixed up in that Trump's Trump's Kennedy mind. But it, it actually sort of sounds like, certainly this one person in New York who I spoke to have had this conversation with, with, with, with, Trump that he's kind of enamored with this kid. That's so interesting. And of course, Jack, this is this is Jack Schlossberg, who is the historic district 12 Jerry Annapolis District, which is Manhattan. It's probably the best congressional district in the country in times of influence, business and also range because you have very poor districts and you have very wealthy districts. Right. And Jack Schlossberg is Caroline Kennedy son. So the grandson of of JFK, of JFK, of John F Kennedy, who, of course, lost his sister Tatiana, in her mid 30s, who got cancer and who wrote once it became clear that she was dying and there was no treatment that could help her. A devastating essay in The New Yorker criticizing her uncle not only for, changing vaccine protocol for babies, but for all the damage is done, with science and cutting back on science and medical research programs. Yeah. No, no. So it's it's, to put this I mean, the Trump thing is clearly, you know, RFK is a is a is a problem. Let's push him push him this way and then to praise the the, the the the cousin who so I think he would be then maybe first cousin once removed. Yeah. Whatever the relationship is. But you know, the other Kennedy family member who's trying to run, who's running for office would be, who has very publicly criticized RFK junior. So I'm sure the poor guy does not want a Trump endorsement, but it really sounds like Trump is is, Trump is tickled by this. But but what is going on then in RFK Junior's head when he starts hearing whispers of this? Sure. I mean, who's telling him this? Who's saying, oh, you should know that that Trump is Trump is not best pleased this time.
Well, yeah. I mean, I'm sure it's it's it's top of top of mind. And how how he plays this I don't, you know, I mean, that's a mind that would be hard to get into actual. Well, and it's half it's been half eaten by a brain. Yeah. So, so the little bits of the brain that is left, is it paranoid out at this point? Is it, is it? Well, I think that from RFK standpoint he has to he has to figure out whether whether his base, RFK is base. It is the is the anti-vax base and whether he speaks to that continues to speak to that, or whether he tries to pivot away from that. I, you know, from a political standpoint, I would say that that, that he should probably double down on it. He might have to leave the administration, but but that's his now, his brand is clearly, the anti-science, anti-vax. Yeah. And that's that's a base. Yeah, yeah. And that's a MAGA. I, you know, that that certainly exists as a MAGA core in the MAGA core. It's hard for me to understand why MAGA women, for the most part, don't want their children vaccinated. And you're asking me this? I it seems totally I am. What's happened to. Is it Casey means who is supposed to be the new surgeon general? Yes. Also has having problems with the confirmation. This is a big you know. You know, this is a this is a sideshow. Another sideshow that is certainly not good for Trump.
Okay, so final quick, inside Hegseth, inside Texas mind, I mean, I, I thought of it this morning because since Mark Wayne Mullin has moved into the Department of Homeland Security, they've removed all the big pictures that Kristi Noem put on the walls of herself and all her various different costumes. So as Coast Guard, as sheriff, who knows what she was doing all her cosplay, which led to our nicknaming her Ice Bobby. All those pictures of apparently gone hex. That is someone who puts up lots of pictures of himself and his wife, his emotional support animal, as he, tells everybody he's no longer going to drink in this job, and he's now running the American military in a in a state of war. No, I think that's I, I think the big question for the big hexes question, the obvious exists. Question is is he still drinking? I mean, every story that you hear about Hegseth is about about his drunkenness. I mean, his the stories prior to to, prior to his confirmation as secretary of Defense. Well, exactly. No. And I and I remember, I mean, Roger Ailes, who I used to speak to often, would would constantly, chortle. And he was annoyed by Haig's drinking and the stories about about Haig, his drinking. So that's the question. I mean, and and I mean, that would be a rare thing to have spent your life as a drunk, to then to become the secretary of defense and say, I'm not going to drink anymore and actually not drink anymore. So it's a kind of let's put this question out. Who has who has seen Hegseth with a drink recently? Let us know if. Yeah, we should ask that. There's always something. I mean, you and I both worked actually, with an alcoholic who I didn't realize was an alcoholic, but the tell was that he always had a can of coke in his hand. And I only found this out because as part of his 12 step program, he rang up to tell me that to apologize and say, you may not have realized, but when I had that kind of coke, actually it was there was lots of vodka at night and I would call me, how come I don't get an apology? Well, I don't know why you took as an apology, but it explains why he fell asleep in meetings. That was something that people noticed. That I was thinking about when he addressed the group of generals. Do you remember when he called in the generals from all over the world at enormous expense and lectured them about being fat, and he was drinking coffee at the time. And I remember thinking, that's such an odd thing to do. It's one thing to drink water when you're addressing a big crowd. But he made some allusion to the coffee while he was talking, and it made me wonder, and obviously I've zero idea what the heck's at this drinking. But to your point, if there is anybody out there who's been working with him and and knows that he is still drinking, that would be interesting for us tonight. But no, that's an interesting I mean, you should never drink coffee when you're giving a presentation. I mean, first thing, it's incredibly sloppy. And, well, it was coffee, wasn't it? He referred to it, did didn't have a coffee in it and, you know, and and drinking coffee. You have to kind of, I mean, especially when you are lecturing a group of incredibly disciplined people sitting in front of you, the fact that you have to kind of lean on your cup of coffee, it's just bizarre. And I know that people are going to criticize me for calling his wife an emotional support animal, but the fact that she is taken into meetings, the fact there are pictures of her on the Pentagon walls seems to me bizarre. Bizarre. I mean, the whole Hegseth story. I mean, can it be more bizarre? I mean, the the, you know, the co the weekend co-anchor of, of a television show is elevated to be the secretary, a drunken weekend co-anchor of a television show. But but why did Roger Ailes put up with it? I don't understand why Roger Ailes would know that Pete Hegseth had a drinking problem and sort of let it continue. Why didn't he say, go and dry out and come back when you're when you're sober? Well, I think he had a lot of problems with a lot of people there, including his own problems. But, you know, I mean, I mean, Ailes always thought that everybody who was on television was a flawed and broken person in at some, some level. And, and Hegseth remember, he wasn't as if he was a star, a network star. He was a he was just a, you know, a, a kind of fox face who he would put on on the weekends. Not a, I mean, not anyone of consequence at the network. Right. Well, it's of consequence now. Yeah. No, I mean, just to look at that how that happened and it's just part and parcel of what has happened in the Trump administration.
Okay. So we we both etiquette half of that to to go and to go and protest on no King's day. I think, I think there's only one solution. We out in the spring sunshine. And Stan stamp our flag. By the way, I bought an American flag the other day. I like the fact that you have an American flag hanging from your house. And I do think there is a whole move to reclaim the flag. It shouldn't just be Trumpian territory. No, but we've got it. We fly it all the time. Yeah. No, it's good. I I've got one too. I've got one too. Now I'm going to fly it to. All right, Michael feisty podcast today. We have no idea where we'll be next. We'll have no idea where we'll be on Tuesday with the war, whether or not they'll be in negotiations, who they'll be negotiating with or who will be doing the negotiation from our side. Meanwhile, meanwhile, Russia and Ukraine continue with no apparent solution, and everybody's forgotten about Gaza. Till, next week. Okay. Till Tuesday. And if you have been. Thank you for watching. Don't forget to share this episode with a friend. Leave us a comment on YouTube. So the good news is we have so many beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support. Thanks to our production team Devin, Roger Reno, Ryan Murray, Rachel Parsa, Heather Pizarro, Neil Rosen house.