Transcription
Hold on, really quick. No, I can't stop right there. I have to go a little bit more. That's not true. Nothing. Hold on. Every civilization, every society, almost every individual will not survive a test of futuristic and modern standards. You will wash away all of history. And as you point out, all it takes today, by the standard you gave me, is enough people offended. Ben Franklin has got to come down. That's the statement.
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait. No, no, no, no, no. Will Stephen Smith getting upset because he sees that Will Cain has confounded him? Brothers, look. Let me make this very clear as well. I'm not saying that it's not okay to be offended by something. We should be vigilant by what's going on around us, but we also have to be able to to place things in their proper context and and to assess things based on the time period and to also understand what's going to help us as opposed to what's going to be a waste of time. These are talking points that are concocted by super liberal Caucasians to make so-called blacks believe that little things are going to result in a big change in our society and our quote-unquote communities, and they're not.
Well, first of all, understand, the answer that I gave you was predicated on your question. It fed off of your question. That's number one. Number two, and more importantly, what's dangerous about what you're saying, Will, is that you're omitting the absence of an impact that both myself and Max alluded to as it pertained to the black community. If somebody in this day and age took a certain position that supposedly was offensive, and we as a society, with the ad, right? But Stephen, look at the hand gesture that you made. You said supposedly was was offensive. What you're really saying, yet again, is that the level of offense is determined by what the mainstream media is going to characterize as offensive. Because if the mainstream media tells you that a homosexual or lesbian or transgender is offended by something, then everybody is supposed to be incensed as well. But there are certain demographics who we know the mainstream media is not going to get behind as much. They're not going to get behind the so-called black man. They're just going to try to act like they do. The black man is used as a pawn by the super liberal media, always. They care more about the homosexual, the woman, and the black woman, and the transgender, than they do the so-called black man. So I have to keep these things, you know, with an understanding.
Advent of social media and beyond, with the reach and the impact and the power to provoke change, did nothing. Then your argument would be far more profound than it is when you bring up the 1920s or the 1930s and you say that nothing was done about it. Max brought it up how there was a disenfranchised community, relatively voiceless and powerless, and pretty much, you know, uh, you know, devoid of the ability to provoke change to that degree at that particular moment in time. I have to say that folks didn't want change. Who's to say that folks wanted those things around? Of course, you're offended by their position. I have an answer. I have an answer for this, Will. It's the perfect is the enemy of the good argument. I've heard this argument used as it relates to Confederate generals. Of course, the treasonous traitors and the defend. Once again, this guy is going off on his own tangent because he needs some type of soapbox to speak on. Offenders and fighters for slavery are villains in history and should be so remembered. Um, yes, and there were many quote-unquote fighters for slavery who were Caucasian Jews. Max Kellerman, um, as only as villains because the bad outwa that is so momentous that it far outweighs anything any virtue. The virtue is now meaningless. And Will Cain has already stated that George Washington and Benjamin Franklin were slave owners. So what do you place them in context? Oh, they're okay because they fought for the Union Army, right? That is not the case with everyone. They can do bad things in the context of history, which at the time didn't seem so bad. I, I get that. But it's like, um, the question, the real question is, was a line crossed? So, for example, um, what you're, we're arguing with Kate Smith is, was there a line crossed? Yes, there was. Did people know better at the time? Sure, they did. Not everyone was putting out music like that. Not everyone was racist in the 1930s. Well, once again, Max Kellerman, you're saying that people knew better back then. Are you saying that Paul Robeson did not know better back then? And I don't understand why Will Cain is not trying to push that that aspect of that song being resumed. Because what that tells me is that that was a song that was written by someone else, and whatever record label Kate Smith was signed to, she was told to sing that song. And that happens with quote-unquote artists who are nothing but witches. Paul Robeson was another cultural Marxist witch as well. They have documents put in front of them, and they're told to read. There, they have songs put in front of them, and they're told sing. That's all an entertainer is is a pawn and a damn slave. That's what they've always been. There's nothing new right now. That's been going on since, you know, the the dawn of the 20th century.
Apparently she was, and she was playing to a racist audience. Now I understand what you mean. One day people will say, well, were everyone vegetarians back then? How dare we honor anyone from the era where they slaughtered in eight animals? And we'll say no. But back then, no one. I understand. But if eventually it comes to a day of reckoning, and you're still on the wrong side, then yes, you will be so judged by history. Right. But that's not the point. Ben Franklin was a slave owner. What is it that you're not getting, Max Kellerman? Not only should history not be erased, it's an incredibly dangerous path to go about thinking it's virtuous to erase history. Agreed, because when you try to erase history, all that does is ensure that that same phenomenon is going to crop up later. Because the point of history is as a teaching tool, a reference point to show this is why things went wrong. It's history. And let me just tell you, by the standard the two of you were telling me today, but I will say this, I do agree with Kevin as, and I have said this in the past, that there should not be any Confederate statues in America. If you're going to have a Confederate statue in America, or Confederate statues, then you might as well have statues of Hitler and the Nazis. You might as well have statues of the the generals for North Vietnam. You might as well have a Saddam Hussein statue if you're going to commemorate all the figures who decided to wage war against against America or the American government.
I'm talking about recent vintage. How are we? Hold on. History. You could go back a decade. A decade. Shift the civil rights issue. Shift the offended party. Steven, if you start talking about gay rights, you will erase history as recently as 10 years ago, because you're holding them to a decade and saying those people must be. What I'm saying is, erase history. How, how, what are we doing to erase history by not playing Kate Smith? You were acting like she, okay, I understand what you're saying. The difference between. I can answer that question, Will Cain. We all know that certain recordings are safe for posterity. You have certain songs that are sent to the Smithsonian because of cultural or historical significance. For you to say that Kate Smith's version of God Bless America should no longer be saved or should no longer be utilized, what you're basically saying is that she should be erased from history from that standpoint. We know that most of her other music is not going to get played today. Max Keller, we know that for a fact. She was a singer from the '30s. Who the hell still listening to music from back then? Where she could still be heard is in her version of God Bless America. We know that already. Between erase and honor, I totally understand. But if you go down this path, forget erase, you'll continue to malign, you will continue to villainize recent historical figures that I would feel clearly certain that almost everybody at this table would hold in high esteem and wouldn't pass the standard of a decade of passing. And Will, my response to that would be, you act like we are denigrating this woman, calling her a racist, wishing bad things upon the soul of this person. No, what they're saying is that these particular, these particular lyrics in her songs were inappropriate, they were offensive, they were racist, and she is not someone who needs to be honored in this day and age, period.
Stephen A. Smith, we're in the age of Me Too. Once again, be very careful because there are many quote-unquote rap lyrics that that can be considered quote-unquote misogynist, especially by some of your favorite rappers, whether it be Tupac, Biggie, Wu-Tang, Redman, Nas, etc. So be very careful. As they say, when you're going down that slippery slope, that's what you're saying. You're stopping. You're stopping there because again, to go any further is to go far deeper than we're prepared to go on this particular show. Well, if you're not prepared to go that deep, you should not touch on the topic then. But you can't say, excuse me, she don't need to be honored in 2019 by playing her rendition of God Bless America. When we're talking about America, we aspire for a better day, a better age, a better society. Allegedly, allegedly, and allegedly, so-called black people seem to aspire for those things more than any other race, and our people are always at the bottom. Maybe we should spend more time focusing on ourselves and one another rather than some some fat broad who died 33 years ago. As a whole, then what she was depicting at that time. And I would say that even go back 10 years, Will. If it's an issue of gay rights, say, and it was not popular enough, it wasn't polling well enough, and so public figures were against gay rights, I know 10 years ago, I, at the time, could see clearly what was right and what was wrong, and there were many people like me, even if we were in a minority. Well, of course, Max Kellerman, because you're a super liberal Caucasian Jew. But at the end of the day, Will Cain is trying to bring up Barack Obama's history on quote-unquote gay rights. It's very obvious that the reason why he alleged to have not been as artery for gay rights as he ended up being is because he was trying to make sure that he built up his image and his cult of personality for so-called black people to help them understand that, you know, he was not someone who was going to bring a lot of overtly super liberal Caucasian ideologies into the, you know, into the White House, per se. But we all know Barack Obama, he swings to that side anyway. But he had to put up a good act. That's the only reason why he claimed to not be fervently for quote-unquote homosexual empowerment. As soon as he got into the White House, I mean, it became the rainbow house. And so if people feel differently about it now, then I would say good for them for growing and shame on them for the position they held 10 years. And to your point, in their statutes, their honorifics should come down as well. It depends, right? Well, King got these dudes confounded. What are you saying? Well, let me know. Get away. So what you're asking me and Max? Well, what are you suggesting should be done? I think he's pretty much already made it plain what he's suggesting. He's suggesting that the landmarks should stay because he believes that they have historical significance. I also believe that, you know, Will Cain is trying to push this angle because he does not want the Caucasian from years past to be overly castigated. But his overall point is a relatively pertinent one from my perspective. I want, I want a lot of these things that are not that significant. Kate Smith's song is not significant enough to be removed. Her version of God Bless America is not significant enough to the so-called plight of black people for us to be concerned about scratching that from the record. That's my stance on it. Okay. I'm suggesting it's an absolute and utter fool's errand to go back through history decades, someone who's been passed away for 30 years, incidents which occurred eight decades ago, and apply modern historical standards to something you can almost reach a century. I'm suggesting that your standard, yours, only requires a handful of people to be a little outraged to go out back and tear statues down. And I'm telling you that by your standard, President Obama's statues would not stand to today's standards when it comes to gay rights. Brothers, did you hear that? Now, Will, Will Cain says, or at least he stated, that Barack Obama's track record when it comes to gay rights is not a good one, at least when when held or viewed in in the context of how homosexuals in America are viewed today. Max Kellerman responded with, what are you talking about? Barack Obama got rid of Don't Ask, Don't Tell. And that plays into the point that I stated about Obama in the first place. The reason why Obama never overtly tried to align himself with the homosexual movement was because he was campaigning, and he had to build up his cult of personality amongst so-called blacks. That's why Obama was the perfect politician at the time because he was able to play into the women's groups, the black groups, and the homosexual groups, at least amongst the homosexuals who knew him and who he really was. It wasn't until he got into the White House that he was able to actually be the person that he wanted to be when it comes to promoting, uh, quote-unquote alternate lifestyles. That's pretty damn easy for you to say because you're not the offended party. It's real easy for the for the person or the group that's not the offended party to take that position. And let me, that's based on the supposition, Stephen A. Smith, on your part, that so-called black people, or or all blacks, will be offended by Kate Smith or or her version of God Bless America. That's an assumption on your part. Let me, let me just really. You're going. Will is latching on there. Will always be an offended party, though. Will make that argument to you. One day, it doesn't appear to be with people that look like you. Will, Will is launching. Once again, Stephen A. Smith, stepping in it. Look, Will is latching on. I'm just talking. I'm just talking about my community compared to yours. That's all I meant by that. Look how quick, Stephen, they tried the moonwalk on that statement. One day, Stephen A. Smith is going to say something on this show that is going to get him into more trouble than he's ever been in before, and it's probably going to be relating to race. You're latching on to the point that that Stephen A. made. You think the threshold is too low. Any offended party, if they're outraged, they're indignant enough, can change history. That is not my contention, and it's not the point I am here making. What I'm saying is, in the 1930s, if people, if someone was putting out racist lyrics, not everyone was racist. Not all white people were racist, but many of them were. They were told often times how wrong-headed they were. It's not as though they weren't aware of this. They made their choice. And by the way, black people were horribly disenfranchised and alienated and marginalized and oppressed. And now to say, well, that's the way it was then, and now, even with the advantage of hindsight, well, look, yes, there was all this injustice, and well, you know, we just got to go along with it. Now that we can never correct anything, we can never knock it off, man. If that were truly the mentality that was that was being postulated, then we would still have things like Jim Crow, so on and so forth. While we're trying to compare a woman having her version of of God Bless America played with the maintenance of certain inherently racist laws and statutes, so on and so forth, it's a false equivalency. With the vantage point of history, say, you know what? Bad. That was bad. You who supported that? That was bad. That argument doesn't fly. There's no debate about the nature of the songs that Kate Smith sang. No one is here to excuse them. What we're talking about is how we treat history and the standards we apply. That's why I played Kate Smith. Well, why there are plenty of renditions of God Bless America? Because they have been playing her for the longest time, and all of a sudden, everybody is so incensed by it now. It's one thing if the song had quote-unquote racist elements in it, or she she was singing a song and it was being promoted that had racist elements in it, allegedly racist elements. But as God Bless America is something that that has been sung for the longest time. Move along. Our people have bigger fish to fry. That's my point on it. Our people have much bigger fish to fry. Ask the Yankees. Well, they gotta move on. We anyway.