The Nazorean Current, Manichaean Gnosis & Orthodox Deception

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Aon bnostic radio. Happy heresies and welcome to the desert of the real. Yes, heresy shouldn't be this much fun, but it is. It just is. And this is indeed an open podcast, a live podcast. As you can see, I am outside. The heat waves here in the Midwest have broken. So, I wanted to take advantage and have a just to sit outside in the evening. Plus, our guest here always gets me all riled up and excited. So sometimes I just need a puff of cigarettes because the topic is just so electric. So electric. So welcome everybody indeed on this Mercury day. Good to see everybody. You shining crazy diamonds, you spiritual entrepreneurs, you veterans of a thousandth psychic wars. As always, my name is Miguel Connor and I am indeed your pompetus of nosis. As always, it is a pleasure to be joined by the latest incarnation of Simon Magus in his meatsack. He is known as Dr. Ray Taylor, but you can call him Simon or Ray. Isn't there a song called You can call me Ray? I don't know. I don't know. But hey, Mr. Ray, how you doing, man?

Oh, doing great. Um, just getting over a little migraine, but um hopefully I can stay focused. I hope y'all are doing okay. What's up, Vance? Oh, well you could call me Ray or you could call me Jay or you could call me Johnny or you could call me Sunny or you could call me Ray J. You call RJ RJ. But you just have to call me Johnson. Oh yeah. Had to do that. Oh, I know. Back in the 80s. Remember that? Yeah, I remember that. That was a good man. My name was uh they kept saying it to me over and over again in school. Sorry about that. It was happy night for heresy though. Oh yeah. Don't call me Shirley. That's all I ask.

So, but yes, uh love the topic tonight. Uh again, it's a open podcast. We will have some private ones probably next week. Our next show, uh only at Aon Bite, we will go from today talking about the true origins of Christianity and Judaism. and we'll be talking about uh Mars structures on Friday with uh David Hos who will join us with some brand new research on what's going on in Mars. Maybe that's where all the Gnostics went and hit. Who knows? But yeah, you yeah the Mars you come here because you will find the guests and the topics you will find nowhere else on the internets. Somebody was wondering about the introduction. Is that AI? And I will say no. that is 100% my voice over. I know a lot of people use 11 labs for those documentaries and introductions and so forth that you see so much on the internets, but no, that's uh my voice 100%. So, thought I would settle that um now just in case more people are wondering. So, other than that, if you have a question, please super chat them. If you are a member, of course, we will get to you. And as always, yes, support AON Bite in any way you can. Uh, help keep the lights of the pluroma on and help keep growing this red pill cafeteria. Rey, I have some visuals. Uh, a little slide if you want to start or do you want to anything you want to say before we get started on uh the foundation of of your work?

Oh, no. Go ahead. Go ahead. All right. All right. And uh I'll have the slide, Ray, but anytime you want to interrupt and uh give your two cents or I'll ask you, please stop me. Please stop me from this slide monsters. All right. Um Oh, got a cat fight here. Let's see. Where is it? I think I'll let you take care of this, Vance. You're better than me. Go. Well, I think we need to see. We can see everybody, not just me. All right. So, this is the Nazaran current baptism, hidden knowledge, and the re-evaluation of Christian Origins. And just recently on his Substack, Ray has put a couple of excellent blog posts, part of his ongoing research, which is uh yeah, pretty eyeopening and uh pretty pretty sound if you ask me. So what's going on people? Well uh the anomaly at the beginning of the story I think the expectation. Yeah we all know the expectation right? If the Jesus movement was a direct continuation of dominant institutional Judean authority. The earliest narrative should center on the Jerusalem temple scribal interpretation and the sacrificial cult. Yeah makes sense right. But that but the reality is far different and weakens go from the uh earliest of the gospels the gospel of Mark. The earliest surviving gospel completely bypasses the temple. The narrative begins in the wilderness, the desert. The def defining activity is ritual immersion. Water serves as the exclusive setting for revelation, divine voice and transformation. So the earliest text places living water, not temple sacrifice at the exact center of its origin account. So what you're saying, Rey, is that the truth is hidden in plain sight, right? Or it is.

Yeah, it is. It's um the himmoro um Baptist, everyday Baptists. Um, there was two, this is speculative um but what it looks like was there was two uh different streams. Um, the Oians which is in the Paneron which is written by Panius. They exist in the first century and uh around the time of Jesus or that time and um they had ritual baptism everyday baptism where they could talk to the great life. Um, what happened was they had Jewish converts and Jewish members who brought YHWHN in the scene and they disagreed. They had big disagreements and um, you know, some believed that Yahweh was the devil. Some people believed I I would assume and this is pretty much speculative here that he was a demiurge figure too. Um, and that's hownosticism began.

And you could say you probably these oceans or protomandians, we're talking about a sect that is very ancient, right? As you say, Plato knew about them. These sort of wild mystics were have been around for centuries untold.

They were. And um, they were not very they were not very well liked by the Romans and the Greeks because they wouldn't answer any questions and they spoke in riddles kind of like the New Testament parables. And so they the Nasseran means keeper of hidden knowledge. Okay. Someone who's entrusted with hidden knowledge that they won't divulge to other people except their initiates. And uh like if we go back real quick to the Mandanss, the Mandanss um they had Anush utra which is the excellent Enosh which is the excellent uh human or the son of man. Okay. And I think we should be familiar with what the person in the Bible Jesus called himself which he never referred to himself as Jesus one time. He referred to himself as the son of man which is kind of odd. I mean, if you think about it.

And uh if we if we take that that pyic that's written and let's I'll go to it. Um, it's written in the mandan book of John. It's in chapter 76. Um, I would read it but I have it just a note on it here. I would read it but they can look it up. Um, it's very easy and I think you should read the book. You can download it. Too bad it's written by McGrath or translated by McGrath. But Anush Ura is challenging Jesus in it. And Anoush reads a letter or a document from before creation signed by Adam, Seth, and Shim which proves his divine origin and defeats Jesus claims to have written a book on living water. You can read it in the full uh English translation by Habil and McGrath in the critical edition. Um, now in the Bible u I can't believe I forgot it's in the Bible where Jesus says to Peter he says everyone else has left me or you're going to leave me too. Okay, this is kind of um I think this is a play on this or this is actually um in this pymic that would read in the Bible where all his followers left him because Anush defeated him. Um, of course, the Mandians believe that Anush Ura, the perfect son of man or the excellent Enosh, um, he came and he performed all the miracles that Jesus took credit for according to the Mandians and the Nerans. Um, but you had another sect that uh, it was called the Elksites. The Elksittes were led were led by a man named Elcasai. And there was a book um that was written, the Elkay they call it. Um, it was written and put together. We don't have a full copy of the book. We only have excerpts out of it. And they were purity baptism and they did believe in Yahweh. And uh they were against uh it looks like to me and it would make sense and this is pure speculative again but you could look at it yourself and make your own determination. I can't make determination for anyone else. um that they didn't like Simon of Samaria at all. Period. Um, they called him um pretty much Antonyomian. They said he, you know, he he rejected Yahweh.

Um, and uh they couldn't stand him. And I think that um Paul the Apostle and uh Simon Magus are the same person just like the Dutch radicals. Heramman detering um in the Clementine homalies Paul was not really well well uh talked about and the same arguments that they did with Simon are the same arguments that they have about Paul the apostle. So they look and they actually use the name Simon to declare in one part in the Clementine homalies Clementine homalies um where they refer to Paul as Simon which is odd and you know so I think they sanitized Paul or Simon into Paul and uh pretty much that's where we where we have the great declaration that they broke it up and I and this is another crazy hypothesis. Everyone out there and all the scholars watching like this, you're going way too far here. I think that the gospel of Q that they they call the Q document, right? was simply the um the great declaration and they used it to create stories and create a composite figure and it was alwaysnosticism. It was always uh Simon, they called him the father of all heresies. Um, which is pretty crazy that they would call one man the father of all heresies.

I mean, that's they're attacking one human being. Yeah. Scholars say that he was more hated than Satan or Judas a Scariot.

Well, and Marcion. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what you have is you have the Elkites, which I don't know anyone here's heard of Manachism. Do they know? Oh, no. We're going to it'll come up in the slide later. Why don't we look at some more visuals? We got you, man. We got you.

All right, brother. Let's see. When does reconstruction become interpretation observation information explicitly preserved within a source? Eg. For example, the gospel of Mark states John baptized Jesus. Inference reason conclusions explaining the observation. Example, ritual immersion occupied a position of extraordinary importance within the communities that produced this text. Reconstruction combining inferences into a comprehensive narrative. For example, the earliest Christian movement originated as one expression of a broader Baptist religious movement. Rule of investigation. Every historical model contains interpretation. No source receive receives privilege historical status merely because it became later ecclesiastical orthodoxy. I don't know if you want to add anything to this.

No, I mean, you did a good job. Oh well this one yeah, had I help AI and I worked on this kind of a 70 60 40% thing. All right, the next one. Reverse engineering continuity. The raw evidence first century realities, a landscape characterized by diversity, independent Baptist sex, and competing claims to authority. Like you said, all you know, alkasides, ocean, you know, they're all very independent little chapters fighting and having their own ideas. uh later theological interpretation. Second and third century ecclesiastical writers uh Irenaeus they possess a theological objective to emphasize uninterrupted apostolic succession and the fulfillment of Hebrew scripture. The orthodox beam. Yes, like a Pink Floyd uh it is like an ancient Pink Floyd album cover. The traditional narrative, a manufactured linear history presenting a single universally recognized line of authority from Jesus to the institutional church. Conclusion: Orthodoxy describes the eventual success of one interpretation, not necessarily its historical priority. So that's what's been happening here. Um, now let's look at John the Baptist as the historical point of departure. Data point one, secular history. Josephus independently attest to John's historical existence, massive popularity, and practice of baptism. Data point two, canonical texts, the Gospels. Jesus first appears as a participant within John's movement. Several of Jesus's earliest followers had previous connections to John. Data.3 independent survival. Acts 19 mentions disciples who knew only the baptism of John decades later proving the movement survive independently. So this all breaks into the headwaters and the inference is the Jesus movement did not pence spent did not emerge in a vacuum. It originated within a religious world already heavily shaped by John's the Baptist theology.

So that agree with that there uh Ray? Oh yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, it's like this they try to get away from John by calling him a forerunner, right? No. But in reality, he's not a forerunner. And um he he was massively important. Um, he is definitely a baptist. I mean, his name I mean, you know, he's a hemorrobaptist. He baptized every day for purity and for, you know, either remission of sins. I doubt it would be more like the shedding of ignorance. That's what he would probably call it. I would hope. I couldn't speak for John, but um it looks like that's what he meant.

It is. And that's what the Mandians do. And of course, uh as you've researched, uh certainly mystical experiences, you can make a connection with the great life. Right.

That's right. When they get in the water, they call down the utras. And the utras uh get in they touch you in the water and they they wipe the scales of the silt out of your eyes and they clean you and uh they make you where you know who you are. And the uras are kind of like the gnostic aons, but they're not. They're pretty mobile. Somebody said they're like uh like aliens in a spaceship. They travel with their clouds and they stop and turn and you know, they're pretty active, aren't they?

Yeah. Yeah. They the the shimon um that's the title, the one who hears. He comes to he before he gets in the water, he calls them down. And the risha rishama, he's the one who does the baptisms. But the the one who hears is that's where Simon and And there's a real key here. I mean, everyone u when they were competing with Simon of Samaria, they called him Simon Peter, a Shimone Peter. Okay, in the Bible, which tells you a lot. I mean, it should it should show you that they were competing with Simon.

So, they they had their own hero they created, which is actually Dothius. Um, it is. And, um, I mean, it's it's obvious it is. I mean, a lot of people would say, "Oh, you're speculating. You're going way past what the evidence shows. And I could just tell those people to suck my ass. Very kindly, very politely. All right, let's go. Go ahead.

I'm sorry. I mean, that's I said that's not scholarly. Well, I mean, I'm a rogue, you know what I mean? I mean, I do what I want. And what I see, you know, it only makes sense. I mean, if you actually look at the gospels, I mean, I hate to and you start reading Mark, I mean, where the hell does that Torah I mean, ask ask a scholar that question, say, where in the hell is all this water imagery and all this crazy stuff that Jesus talks about, right? I am the light of the world, right? Where is that in the Torah? Where is that? Show me in the prophets. If you can show me in the prophets, then I'll admit that I'm wrong. Mhm. But they can't show you. What they can do is stick with the scholarly consensus because they get funding.

At the same time, I mean, all these groups even the hermet Genesis was very important to all these groups. Yeah. Creation. I mean, they all said you know Moses got it wrong and got corrupted. But uh Genesis was a big deal to these groups. Yes it was. And uh go ahead. Sorry. The meaning and you talked about this the meaning of Nazaran Jesus the Nazarian Nazaria Nazaroas Naz renos uh we think of it as a geographic thingy traditional interpretation associates this pur purely with the Galilean town of Nazareth and then there's a sectarian/religious version Epiphanas in his penarian describes Nazarans whose beliefs differed from emerging Catholic Christianity. So you have a church father already admitting this. Then you've got the Mandian literature preserves the self-d designation Nazurana meaning guardians or possessors of hidden nosis knowledge. So we have it right then. Of course the word mandian means gnostic. Um, the inference, the title likely carried religious significance, pointing directly to a specific current of thought centered on secret knowledge and ritual immersion.

So that's right. Yeah. It's um it's almost like um this Aronyaeus, which I um thoroughly uh do not believe. I mean, I don't see it his way. He created apostolic authority and John would have to been like 105 years old for Polycarp to sit at his feet, right? You know, and u I mean, it's ridiculous in 117 I think it is. Um, but that's I mean, you can believe that. I mean, but if you want if you believe that I'll sell you some swamp land in Florida. I mean, I got some you know I mean it's it's kind of got a lot of water on it but it'll still work. Yeah. I don't I just I just don't believe it. I mean, here's the thing. If I try to prove something to someone, a lie, I have to back that lie up with another lie. So, he said, "I've got apostolic authority." He's he's he was a bishop. Um, but that doesn't mean that he really had apostolic authority. And in reality, if he hadn't had done that, um, all the competing sects out there, I don't think they were competing. I think they're all different. Um, and the early church hated rebaptism, too. They couldn't stand these Baptist cults. Epipanius, I mean, he went out of his way. I mean, to interview these people and to go out and talk to them and, you know, they had to be important. I mean, think about when he did that, what year that was, um, that he had to write this down so he could document heresy. But in reality, what he was doing, he was proving, um, pretty much that they were right. There were more of them. And, uh, they hated them. They couldn't stand them because they would show up and stuff. And they would, you know, tell them, "Hey, you're lying. You're not telling the truth." And I loved old Kelsus, though. He came in there and he sold them Celsius, you know, he's like, "No, that's not didn't happen." Um, and they couldn't deal with him.

Yeah. But but the thing is, if we if we think about water immersion, right? Um, that's been around so long. I mean, and even in the uh the enuma leash, it says that gods where the water started. You know what I mean? I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but the thing is is um so it is water. Water I mean just that's what that's what we do. I mean, we're made of water. We have water in our head. I mean, if it doesn't keep dripping in the middle of our head, cerebral fluid, then we die. So, we're basically water-based beings. Yep. Yeah. Zorastra did it. Um, yeah, it's part of the for the audience, uh, the Mandian book of John. You can go to, of course, everybody's favorite place gnosis.org and you'll find a copy, too. Uh, let me bring in Vance. Vance, what do you think? Or are you going, "Wait a second. Is uh, David Barn from Talking Heads of Mandian? Take me to the river. Drop me in the water. Secret Mandian, maybe." Well, you know, um I've also heard a theory that uh one of the reasons for baptism was they held you under the water until you had a near-death experience and then you go got out of your body and then you would uh get the nosis, you know, from the from the ethereal beings.

I've I've I've never seen that any any of the research that they did that. I mean, I've heard that before, but I've never um I've I've researched it for the last two years, and I've never seen that. Um, but some people do say that. That's what uh one of the pyics I think was written. Oh, God. By uh one of the popes wrote that and was a homaly 12 um I can't remember. Um, it would be a rebirth, literal rebirth. See, correct. They were saying that in that in in the 12th homaly I believe but uh let's see I cannot remember but they were saying that the Catholic Church that was that was a pyic against the Nasserans or the bapt the humor of Baptists.

But it wasn't. Well, and the other thing I was wondering these uas are they like fish or something that swim around in the water why why why do they have to be in the water to. Well, what it is is the water is the water of life like Jesus said or Simon you like that and they get in the water they come from the water okay just imagine this is I I'll give you what the Mandians say okay that you're in a stream of water moving water and it's running and they believe that basically the great life steers the water from above into the water you're in okay and the asas are the standing ones they stand before um the great life day and night, 24 hours a day, all the time. They they're allowed to stand, okay? Done doing everything to stand. It says in the Bible, but um so they do they stand before the great life as basically if you want to call them sons of God, you can probably get away with that. But they're in charge. They're perfect in every way. And uh meaning that um they are not ignorant at all of anything. and they know even what the great life does and what the great, you know, so they communicate with the great life. But here here's the one thing that I've noticed that I thought was very interesting the other day. Uh, they looked at in some text I saw and I'm trying to uh rationalize what they said uh and understand it. The great life doesn't need to communicate through voice, through words. It communicates with you all the time and you don't know it. Your very thoughts come from the great life according to uh that's one of the nos's hidden knowledge that you know. So if that's true then I think we can all relate to that maybe.

Very well said. All right next slide. Competing memories of succession. No not the HBO show. And yeah, the the drowning thing does appear in Game of Thrones the series. Uh maybe that's where people are getting it. The source, the pseudo Clementine literature, which Ry mentioned, homalies and recognitions. The narrative presents John the Baptist as the head of a massive Baptist community. His death produced immediate intense disputes concerning secession. Yes, I'm saying you had what 12 priests and Ellen was one of the priestesses. She was in charge of the moon and so forth. But uh we have Simon of Samaria as we know in Simon Magus remembered across independent streams. Acts Justin Martyr Erynaeus as a deeply influential deeply influential religious figure later transformed by Orthodox into the archetypal heretic. Then Dosius consistently associated with Samaritan and Baptist circles directly competing for John's mantle. And he's mentioned in one of the texts u in the nagamari library. I forget which one. Uh the inference, ancient Christians remembered a vastly more complex contested religious landscape than the simplified institutional succession later claimed by the ecclesiastical writer. So we have it right there. Anything you want to add, Ray?

Yeah, I mean if you want to read about Dothius and Simon, I mean that's really that's really cool. I love that. Um, Simon shows up. They thought Simon had disappeared or dead, which is strange. Um, and Dosius was running the group, this big group. And Simon walked up and he said, "I'm the one who stands." And Dothius said, "I'm the one who stands basically, right?" Um, and then Simon kept saying it and he said, "I'm going to wamp your ass with a stick if you don't shut up." No, he didn't say that. He picked boy you keep saying you're the one who stands. So he took he picked the staff up and he tried to hit um Simon with it and it went right through Simon's body like smoke and then Dothius uh bowed down and started to worship Simon. It says um because he saw the miracle which is and then Dosius not soon died after that. He died. Yeah. Yeah. It's like quite a magical battle that's for sure. And uh to uh to clarify, how how do the Mandians see Simon Magus?

They don't mention Simon by name. They don't, but they mention the one who hears, and that's Shimone. So, it's almost as if they um when you bring it up to them, it's more or less they they change the subject, they don't answer the questions, and they do the same stuff that they did in the first century. So, I mean, I gather from them that they don't want to tell me anything. So, um, you know, and I don't know, maybe we could ask Bloodbath McGrath. He knows everything. He talks to him all the time. And, uh, he he might know himself. I mean, because maybe they initiated him or something. Who knows? But, uh, I I've asked them and I said, "What about Simon Maggas?" And they're like, "Mum is the word." They don't deny it. So, I would assume that he is in there and uh I mean by what they say and what they don't say.

And it's very hard to deal with these people. I mean, it's not uh they talk to you and then they say, "Oh, we're people of the book, the Sabians." And then all of a sudden, you ask a direct question, they're like, they avoid it like the plague. They just won't answer. So, that's all where I get from them.

Yeah. I'm sure centuries of persecution makes them a little jittery. So, oh yeah, the Elkasite link and the Manny Codeex as you mentioned the Elksides Manianism and the Cologne Many Codex, a critical historical document proving that Mani founder of the Manachianism spent his youth in a Baptist community generally identified with the Elksides. The Elksides, as you mentioned, flourish in the second and third centuries. A Baptist movement possessing a revelatory book distinctively emphasize repeated ritual immersion, purity, and divine revelation. I also love how they believed in these giant 90 ft or 90 mile tall angels. What? 960 mi tall with their footprints are 14 miles wide or 14. Take that, Godzilla. Anyway, the inference. Mani did not invent his dualistic worldview in isolation. He emerged from a fully established, continuously flowing Baptist environment, possessing ritual, scripture, and theology that bypassed the Jerusalem temple cult entirely. So, um, but the did the Manakians really, uh, didn't they forgo baptism after a while or.

They did? Yeah. He believed in purification. um food um he became very aesthetic um Manny and uh he was captured by a king and he died a martyr's death in 7276 I believe it is and um but Manny was yeah he was an Elkasite his parents were or his family was I would assume and he spent a lot of time with the Alkasites and then all of a sudden he got this vision he claimed and the vision carried him where he wanted to go and he started writing things down and he recruited a lot of people and they became manism. It actually spread all the way to China by the way and he believed that he was the third succession meaning that there was Buddha, Jesus and Manny. Mhm. Yeah. And he he believed that and he said that his message will never stop. Well, it did stop so he was full of crap. But the thing is is um I mean, it did. I mean, you know, I mean, that's the whole thing. But it did last a couple of centuries and um, you know, and they had Manny worship too, I believe. I mean, that's what someone was talk I was talking to someone about that. And.

Yeah, there's statues of him. It looks like the Buddha in Asia still. The Weaguer Empire was Manny. I mean, they they lasted till the middle ages. And as some have said, there were councils where they were ex hanging out with the Bogumals and Cathars. So, yeah, it might have continued and the Templars, but anyway, that's we're getting out of a late antiquity here, but um. Manny believed in pure nosis. Mhm. I mean, he that's what he believed and he he spoke it constantly and um he believed that um that that you have to shed the flesh. Basically, the same thing is is in the Bible. I mean, um, you know, it's where Paul where Paul or Simon said that, uh, you know, to put off the things of the flesh so the spirit will thrive. That's what Manny would say, too. I mean, it's pretty much identical. I mean, we actually Christians don't even realize they're practicing a lot of manism.

Yeah. Some say a lot of the uh rituals like confession and others hymns the manyans were about singing and during Yeah. a lot of it uh the Roman Catholic Church took. So. They did and u it's it's all in the Bible. I mean, it's all actually in a lot of their liturgy too if you ever noticed that. I mean, a lot of the stuff is written um in the in the way Manny would write and what what he would say in the Cologne Manny Codeex. If you read it really through, um, you'll understand it really well that the Catholic Church just borrowed or stole all his stuff and, uh, uses it. They use it right now.

Yeah. He was an amazing individual. Let's see. The Mandian memory, an invented history. Orthodox Christianity says that Jesus is the supreme lord. John the Baptist is merely the subordinate forerunner and you mentioned this too. Mandian Mandianism uh Nazeria or Nazerites or whatever you call it from the Ginsa Rabba book of John which you mentioned John the Baptist is a supreme prophet and teacher. I don't think he's a supreme prophet just one of many. Jesus is regarded as one who deviated from the true teaching. Yeah, he's a weward man mandian as you stated and the significance the mandians preserve the most extensive corpus of surviving Baptist literature. Their existence as a living tradition provides a distinct parallel memory of the first century that entirely subver subverts the later Orthodox redaction.

That's true. But how do uh what do mainstream scholars do? It seems the way around this uh ray is to throw the mandians later in history, right? Although I know like April Deconic and there are other scholars who put the Mandians pretty early.

Uh, I know there's quotes that it was founded by a woman, I forget her name in Jerusalem or somewhere like that. Um, her name was Mary, of course. I'm sure it was Miriam or something. But. Is that how they get around it? Pushing the Mandians ear later in history. Looks like. They like to use the third century. They love to say that.

Okay. Well, I mean, here's the thing. You know, the one thing that I've learned over my 40 years of study, which is really what it is, is um whoever, you know, if you go against the mainstream consensus, right? And u you lose funding. And I know it sounds terrible. It sounds like conspiracy theory, but the reality of it is is um scholars are pretty lazy people. They don't really do a whole lot and they sit around and read a bunch of [ __ ] and then they pretend to know everything and then they go on myth vision and they make an ass out of themsel. But the thing is is they do I mean they just say a bunch of [ __ ] and they repeat everything that everyone else says. They're just repeaters, man. They're just like news agencies. what we've learned today, you know, and then you've got every type of person, but they don't want the truth, man. They That's the problem. They don't give a [ __ ] about the truth. They care about running their mouth about stupid [ __ ] that no one cares about. I mean, I want to know. I'm I mean, I've always been on a search for the truth. I didn't give a [ __ ] about a doctor. I don't give a [ __ ] about a master's degree. I didn't give a [ __ ] about any of that. I just thought, well, when I get to this level, I'll know the truth. And [ __ ] I didn't know it. I mean, they it you know, I mean, it was like a waste of [ __ ] money but you know, I mean, the thing is and I had to be around a bunch of [ __ ] 24 hours a day all the time every time I went to school, you know, and uh I'm sitting in the classroom I'm like, I just want the truth. The truth is all I care about the facts. What the [ __ ] happened in the female language? What happened in the first century? Is Jesus Christ the man or who is the man? They're like, "Well, if Jesus is the man and you don't believe in Jesus, you got to go to hell." I mean, and then there's no such thing as hell. They make that [ __ ] up and then they scare people. Everything's a scare tactic, man. But what it is with these scholars, they won't take a look at any of this stuff because the reason that they don't, and I'm not critical of everyone. I'm not the greatest person ever lived, by the way. I'm I'm probably the biggest [ __ ] here tonight. Well, all right. But the thing is, I still want the truth. It's like I walk in and your old lady's cheating on you, right? You know, and then she runs and hides. That pisses you off. You're like, "What the what happened?" Okay. I mean, like that. And then you you walk into these groups and they sit there and they have the Jesus seminar, the this, the that, the that, and then they get funding from these d these churches because these churches have to cough up cash, right? And these big organizations, you know, and then then it's kind of like this over and over again, right? And you know, Miguel, I'm not trying to be critical or terrible on your show. I'm trying to say one thing. Um, you you ever seen that movie, um, Idiocracy? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Many times. The documentary. Sorry. Um, okay. Well, it's kind of like this. I was watching a show. I'm not going to name the scholar because it would be um, but they say Jesus is Jewish. Jesus is Jewish. and and they say, "Why do you say that?" Because they pay me every time I do. You understand? I mean, they'll keep saying it over and over again. And if you deny it, you're an anti-semite. And I'm like, "How in the hell am I an anti-semite for asking questions?" And um, he's not Jewish like that, whether he existed or Judaism didn't start till the second century. Number one, he may have lived in Judea. And but I live in Blackstone, Virginia, and I'm a Blackstoneian, but everyone in Blackstone doesn't doesn't have the same damn religion. Okay? And we didn't name a religion after a province. So the thing is is did Jesus, the guy Jesus, did he practice at the temple? No. And I've said this multiple times and I said this in school, okay? If Jesus is a sacrifice for your sins on that cross, right? He can't be. The Romans cannot sacrifice anyone under Levitical law. Under the law. Okay? He would have to. Why didn't he just walk into the temple and let them cut his throat and then burn his fat? I mean, why didn't that happen? Because he wasn't the Jewish Messiah. He had absolutely nothing to do with that. But the scholars, they'll be like, "Well, um, how do they gloss over that?" They can't. They simply cannot. But they'll try. They'll [ __ ] they'll [ __ ] you to death and you're like, "God damn." And you put your fingers in your ears. You're like, "Please help me. Why is that? Why didn't he walk into the temple, Miguel? Can you tell me and just say, "Kill me. I'm the Messiah. I'm the guy who and I'm dying for everyone's sins right now." Okay. And uh why didn't he do that? He fulfilled nothing. Not one Old Testament prophecy did he fulfill. Unless you go and gloss it over in the book of Matthew and make up a whole bunch of nonsense, right? He wasn't born of a virgin. He's born of Alma. A l M A, right? That means young maiden. This has nothing to do with virgin. And um, why can't people see that? I mean, is it just that they need that hokey ass religion that tells you you're the worst scum of the earth piece of [ __ ] sinner that you need to be redeemed by a human being's dead blood. I mean, I'm just asking for a friend. I'm just kidding. I mean, I don't know. When I first heard it, I didn't believe any of that [ __ ] I was like, "You're out of your mind." Guy told me, "Please read the this preacher. Please read these gospels." I read them all. I'm like, "None of these aren't even real, man. This sounds like Asop fables and shit." And the guy's like, "Well, um no, it's real." scared the hell out of me. I was scared to I mean, to do anything. I thought I'm going to hell. Uh, they convinced me of it for a while and I mean, I was like damn it screwed up my sex life by the way my asex life. But I mean, I was like god damn if I spit on the ground I'm going to be dead.

Yeah. And and I'm like this is what they did to a 15-year-old kid, you know, and I hate them. I can't stand them. And that's why you hear the anger because I ask questions. And the only reason to ask questions is because I'm a critical thinker. But that doesn't make me anything special. And I'm not saying I am. I'm just saying I ask questions. I don't give a [ __ ] about YouTube. I don't I people, oh, you like, you know, I really don't. I don't have to be on there and I don't have to be um sitting up there lifting weights and showing my ass to uh to the homosexuals, right? uh you to get a bunch of get a bunch of people. Yeah, you you know I mean I don't care. I'm not a young uh construction worker who should be doing construction. I'm a doctor of religious studies. I earned my degree. Okay? I earned this [ __ ] Okay? I don't even care about it really, but I earned it. Most of these guys didn't earn nothing. And then they bring idiots on there, right? That well I'm no longer a Christian, you know, stuff like that. That's just crazy [ __ ] And I'm not complaining. I'm just telling like I see it. And do I think that Jesus was a Nasseran? Absolutely. 100%. I am 100% sold that he was a Naseran. And I believe that um that the other Elksittes, they had the James guy, which was named Jacobs. I I should have brought that up earlier. Um, and I believe that um that they were killed around Jerusalem. And I and I believe that uh they took a story of nerans, gnostics, okay, like the Mandans, and they slaughtered them and they killed them. And the message was so powerful, man. The message was you're a god, okay? You have part of God in you, okay? You're the spark. And and the thing is is and you're free. Why are you listening to these [ __ ] Does that make sense? And I really believe that. And I think that people should think, just think about it. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying if you actually take a look at the evidence, just just the evidence by itself, right? And say, not faith. Faith is the most dishonest thing in the world. I mean, it's stupid. Yeah, I've got faith. I've got I've got $10 million in the bank. I mean, it's [ __ ] stupid. And people don't realize it. It's a con. But I'm not here to con anybody. I'm here to tell the truth, man. And when I write, I write to tell the truth. I write because it matters to me. Because I want to know what the hell happens when you die. Do you understand? That's it. I I want to know before I die. And I want to spread tell other people, you know, maybe I could maybe maybe it'll help people. And if I had the power to heal everybody that was sick, I would do it right now. I'd be in the hospital walking around touching everybody. And not because I want to be a badass or a showboater, just because I love them. Because I love them enough to tell them the truth. But.

Amen. Amen. Amen. Well, let's check the Nazaran DNA. We got a heat map and uh canonical Mark and John ritual inversion. Yes. Hypnosis. Yes. Light dark dualism. Yes. Rejection of sacrifice. Mark bypasses it. Okay. And then the pseudo clementines ritual immersion. Yes. Hidden nosis. Yes. No. Light dark dualism. Uh nothing about rejection of sacrifice. Uh elkites. Ritual immersion. Yes. Hiddenossis? Yes. Light dark dualism? No. Like you said, they were in with Yahweh. Rejection of sacrifice. Yes. Now the Mandanss. Oo. They got it all right. Ritual immersion, of course. Hidden osis, yes. Light, dark, dualism. You got it. They don't like Sophia. Rejection of sacrifice. Yes. And then the Manans. Uh, we got ritual immersion. Yes. Uh, like you said later, they abandoned it. Hidden noses. No. The manicans were always yapping their mouths to everybody about the truth. Uh, they love to talk about it. Light and dark dualism. Of course that's uh they were uh very zorastrian rejection of sacrifices. You got it. There's a note here. Romans 63 6 chapter 6 3-11 frames baptism as transformative death and rebirth. The inference, the reoccurring pattern across centuries cannot be coincidence. It represents a continuous shared religious architecture. In other words, this Naz Nazarene or Nazerite thing was going on throughout the centuries in one way or another, but like you said, they they're not going to agree 100%. Right.

That's right. Mhm. There is no agreement. I mean, the thing is is um the Elksites, right? I mean, Elkasay was their prophet, I guess, right? He put the book and wrote it down. they believed in um I uh they had to confess and they had to have different witnesses there when they did certain um like when they had really bad sins that they done like um I can't name them but uh on here because it's against YouTube's policy um but if you look it up you'll see they did some things that were pretty nasty and then they had to get b they had to get baptized for it but they had to have witnesses and they had to confess it but they had to confess it to the earth which is really strange. I mean, it's almost like earth magic. If you actually look it up, they, you know, the salt, the water, the this, it's really weird. Their their whole ritual. But if you

Go into the Elkates too. They also believed in, like, like you said, a 960-foot-tall angel with a female, and that female was a Holy Spirit. And the 960-foot, uh, man or the angel was the Son of God, by the way, to the Elks.

[clears throat] >> They didn't, did they believe in Jesus? That's the question. Not like, not like you think. They didn't believe in Jesus as a sacrifice. They believed he was just a part of what was going on, basically. But they did believe in, um, Yahweh and El. I mean, that's kind of obvious, but I was reading their stuff, uh, a couple days ago, and, uh, it, it's extremely interesting. I mean, a lot of people might find reading about the Elgites. Um, it kept me reading it for like four hours the other day. I couldn't stop.

>> So, some of the stuff they do is just really cool. And then you talked about the pseudo-Clementines, Alcasites, and Mandans. I like the Mandians. I think they're great people. The Manachisms. I've never met anyone, but what they, uh, what they talk, what he talks about is, uh, I think Manny believed what he was doing. I don't think he was a bad [clears throat] guy. I mean, I think he believed what he was doing. He died a martyr in prison because his king, I can't remember his name, but he had him arrested and imprisoned, and he died in prison.

>> Yeah. Right. The Persian emperor took over, and he was friendly with the Zoroastrian priesthood that hated him. But the, the other one wanted to make all of Persia into a Manakian, um, kingdom. So,

>> Yeah, he, he embraced, he embraced it. Um, he embraced Zoroastrianism. Um, Manny did a lot, though. He, he really did. And, uh, but the thing is, he mixed everything up, kind of, if that makes sense. I, I like him. Had nothing bad to say about Manny. I mean, you know, may he rest in peace.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He was creating like a universal religion that included everybody.

>> Yeah. So, um, [clears throat and cough] let's see. The genealogy of the Nazarian current. The orthodox dam institutionalized and temple continuity continuity. John the Baptist, the Nazarian current. It's the upper branch, and that turned into ma, uh, mainstream Christianity. The lower branch, we have Simon Magus and Dositheus, Alkasites, Mandians, and it all turns into the Manakian synthesis, as you would say. The original flow, a charismatic environment of immersion, aesthetic discipline, and revelation. The diversion, later theological redaction, forced one stream into an acceptable narrative of continuity with the temple tradition and apostolic succession. And the under, and then lastly, the underground current. The remaining streams flowed on, preserving the original emphasis on repeated baptism, gnosis, and dualism.

So, [clears throat] again, it's just another, um, way of showing it. Then the next slide is the clash of paradigms, a reevaluation, the traditional reconstruction. Original point, Jerusalem temple, institutional continuity, sorry, core ritual, sacrifice, and fulfillment. Theological framework, public apostolic succession. Source of authority, hereditary priesthood, institutional bishops. View of John the Baptist, a mere prologue to Jesus. Now, the Nazarene reconstruction. The original point is the Jordan River, wilderness, Baptist environment. Core ritual, immersion, and spiritual rebirth. Theological framework, hidden knowledge, gnosis, and cosmic dualism. Source of authority, charismatic teachers, direct revelation. View of John the Baptist, the foundational patriarch of the movement.

So, there you have it, right, Ray?

>> That's it. I mean, can we say one thing? Okay. In the Bible itself, and I believe it's Corinthians, um, Simon or Paul, he talks about, um, "I've been baptized in Jesus's death, burial, and resurrection." And, um, in the river, that's where you die, and that's where you're resurrected. And, uh, I think that's where they got the death and resurrection from. Christians could argue and say, "Well, you know, that's not true. Why would he say that? And why is that written in a letter from supposedly Apostle Paul that you die in the river?" And then when Paul said he died daily, that's, um, hemorrho Baptist. That's daily baptism. They die in the river daily. And that's exactly what the Mandians would say, that you, when you die, you die in the river. And if you die daily, that's what Rashamas do. I believe the highest, um, they baptize themselves every day.

>> I mean, they get in the river and they die to wash the ignorance off. So, if Paul or Simon was writing that, it makes total sense. It makes perfect sense. I mean, it actually, the whole, uh, his whole theology is Gnostic. I mean, there's nothing in there. Um, visions, um, the stuff that he says, "Whether in the body or out of the body." What do you think about that, Miguel?

>> About what?

>> About when Paul says, "Whether in the body or out of the body."

>> I don't know. Well, obviously Paul traveled out of his body, third heaven and stuff. So, he probably thought he could take [clears throat] these flights like the Gnostics.

>> Yeah.

>> You could travel the heavens, the higher dimensions. So,

>> He had these, um, and Paul was always running away from the, what? Judaizers. Do you remember that, Simon?

>> Mhm.

>> And, uh,

>> When they showed up, like I always say, um, I love the rebaptism, mate. I mean, I love reading that, um, where Simon baptized in the river, and fire came off a running water. There's no way to fake that, man.

>> I was trying to figure it out the other day. I mean, I, I actually asked AI, "How in the hell would you fake that?" And especially in, you know, I mean, and you can't in moving water. So, John said they were going to be baptized with fire and the Holy Spirit. And, uh, then I asked AI, just as a joke. I said, "Um, I asked ChatGPT." I said, "How can you baptize someone in a house?" Oh, well, you could in a bathtub, right?

>> And I was thinking, well, they weren't in a bathtub in Acts. They were just sitting around a table, right? And the wind blew in.

>> Um, that's not baptism. Baptism is in the water.

>> And it, it's always going to be in the water. That's what the word means. Immerse. Immerse in water. So,

>> Um, how can you baptize someone in the Holy Spirit,

>> in a house? I mean, just think about it.

>> Well, [clears throat] it's not living water. The area of the bathtub is stagnant water. So, you know, the flow of the river, I think, is a big part of it. And I'm wondering, you know, if these people think back in, you know, 2,000 years ago, probably, uh, it's like in India, right? What do they do when they have to clean themselves? They go in the Ganges, right? And they clean themselves because, uh, they, you know, that bathing in a bathtub, unless you have running water, which they didn't,

>> by and large, um, being in a river with flowing water was a real way to clean yourself. So, I'm wondering if they didn't just associate being literally dirty and cleaning themselves in a river was then they, um, extrapolated that to spiritual, um, concepts.

>> That's a good point. I mean, that's a, uh, I think that was done in the Mitzvah baths that the, the temple cult used, because they took ritual baths before they went into the temple. But, um, these people, um,

>> they probably, they didn't, I don't think they saw it that way. They saw it as washing away of ignorance. So, I mean, that's how they even phrase it to this very day. So, when they go in there and they die in the river, which is, uh, very interesting. And a lot of these people, man, have gone, they go down to the bottom of the river and they let silt get in their eyes, and then they don't wash that silt out for three days, which is really strange. That, that's kind of strange, too. They're dead for three days. I mean, I know that's, uh, they can't see.

>> Wow.

>> So, so, I mean, think about that one. Doesn't that kind of go with the gospel, the death, burial, and resurrection, and three days in the tomb? I mean, that sounds to me, because Paul or Simon, or whoever he said that Annihas came and he washed the, the silt out of his eyes, or the scales from his eyes, right? Which scales would be silt from the bottom of the river, which means that that was mud and stuff in his eyeballs where he couldn't see.

>> How could you even stand that, though? I don't know about that.

>> They must have did it.

>> Why? Maybe it was a metaphor. I mean, the Mandian still practice it. So, I mean, um, when they become a Rishi, Rishi or Shama, which is, um, which is pretty funny because the name Shama, it goes back again to Simon, to Shimone.

>> It's, it's pretty funny how they just altered one part of it, which the Shimon was the leader of the group, or the one who stands, and his name would have been Simon too, or Shimon. So, that's pretty funny. And, um, when they call him Shimon of Samaria, right? They call him the Great Power of God. And they still call him that in Acts. Have you noticed that? They didn't, they were too scared, uh, to put anything really physical about him. They did write a physical, but they didn't call him any names. They said he's known in Samaria as the Great Power of God. That's pretty cool, if you think about it.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, they kind of have their own priesthood then, in a sense, you know, it's, I know all these groups, they always evolve so that there's an elite group that's in the know, you know, gnosis. Even, even the Gnostics were like that, right? Um, there's, there's always people clawing for the top, which is,

>> you know, I guess human nature.

>> Yeah. It's, um, well, what it is, is they don't entrust, um, just anyone with the knowledge, because the, the first thing you got to remember this too, they were hunted, and they were forced converted into the temple cults and different cults. Um, the Marnian temple or Marass in, uh, in Gaza, they force converted people to that. I don't know if y'all know that or not. Um, um, they had, uh, Heka, Hecatate, the temple. You know what I'm talking about?

>> Hecka, Heck. Yeah.

>> Well, they force converted people to that. I mean, it's, it's, you know, we've got some records, and if they caught you and you were a Nazarene, you were open season,

>> so you could,

>> so you couldn't know everything, um, where they were going to be and what they were doing, um, unless you stayed with the group. That's why, uh, they were tight-knit, and they swore secrecy oaths, that they wouldn't say anything, and that's why they probably didn't use names and they just used titles. Um, that's, that's the one thing that I've noticed about the, uh, about back then, they they didn't seem to think that their birth names or whatever names their parents gave them was their actual names. They, they believed that they had different names, like heavenly names, you know, kind of like the Indians. You get an Indian name or something, they, they would give it to you. Whatever your title was, that's what they called you, and they still do it.

>> Yeah. It's crazy, isn't it? But and even today, the poor Mandians, they're treated like crap over in Iran and different, different countries. Um, they're not [clears throat] treated like the Muslims hate, don't they don't like them. Majority of the Muslims, um, and the Christians, they see them as heretics. So, they call themselves People of the Book, that's the only way they can survive. Because in America, it's different, but over there, where they were, is horrible. I mean, they've been killed and slayed, and even during the Iraq War, I don't know if you knew about that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. They suffered immensely. Them and the Yizidis and other minorities there. Terrible. All right. Um, let's see, we're reading [clears throat] the historical palimpsest. Basically, a scroll where you find something reading. Uh, underneath the final inference, the origins of what became Christianity lie not in the temple cult of Jerusalem, but in the Nazarian Baptist current. The mythological imperative. History is not determined by the communities that ultimately prevail, but by the rigorous evaluation of the evidence that survives from every community. The takeaway, the story of Jesus the Nazarene cannot be properly understood apart from the living water from which it emerged. To understand the origins of the movement, we must look past the stone monuments of Orthodoxy and trace the river beneath it. That is the presentation for you. Let's see. We'll go back here and, uh, yeah. Anything from the audience or you, Vance? I've been so focused on this, I didn't even, uh,

>> Yeah, me too. Um, well, you know, it, it makes sense to me because, you know, anything that gains power tries to, uh, tries to maintain it and shut out everybody else. So, you know, the Mandians, you know, were victimized because, you know, they're not the, they're the underdog, you know, and the, the dominant religions that surround them want to suppress them. And so, um, if the Mandians become the world religion and so forth, they'd probably wind up suppressing everybody else. You know, it [laughter] it's, you know, I can see why atheists become that. They, they take everything, just say, "Forget all of this stuff. Forget the Orthodoxes. Forget all these other guys and these guys that have think they have no system. Hell with it all." So, you know, it's, it's kind of, you get to that point, you know.

>> But with the, I think with the borrowing from the Pythagoreans, the Mans, and the Cathars and others, if you wanted to be the leadership, the inner circle, you [clears throat] had to be an ascetic, as, uh, Ray said, vegetarian and a vow of non-violence. So, be hard to corrupt the power when you're supposed to live like a monk. You're in charge, but you live like a monk.

>> The Mandians have the same thing. They have, they can't own guns and, um, stuff like that. They can't defend themselves.

>> Um, the one thing that I like to say is [clears throat] in the Bible itself, Jesus said, "You have to love me and, and basically everyone's going to hate you, even your parents, if you don't hate your parents enough and stuff like that." Well, if [clears throat] Jesus was talking about Yahweh, right, to these Jews, right, or whatever you want to call it at the time, right? That doesn't make any sense. Why would they hate him, hate you if you're serving Yahweh, their their God? So, he's introducing, he had to be introducing something different,

>> that would, uh, that would cause a lot of problems. I mean, I'm just saying, I went through the entire Bible many, many, many times and, um, studied every word in the Greek and then translated to Aramaic what we could. Um, he's not talking in there about anything but, uh, water. Even when he meets the woman at the well, when they switch that around, they switch that around before the marriage or after the marriage in Kaa. But, um, if you go read the story about Simon and, uh, and Helena, it makes a lot of sense, you know, because that's where he met her at a well, I believe, too. I mean, it's, uh, and then Rachel at the well in the Old Testament, it's always a wedding. It's always an engagement.

>> So, I think that some that we've been told, uh, whatever would control us.

>> You understand? That's what I think. And, um, it's worked for 2,000 years, or well, 1700. And, um, and it, the church gained a hell of a lot of power and murdered a hell of a lot of people in the name of Jesus. You know, they created wars, and even to this very day, these MAGA people, right? They think that they're fighting some holy war by slaughtering poor Palestinians. And, um, I mean, so, and they're, they're totally confused. I mean, you know, it's, it's totally non-violent. You see what I mean? It's total love for one another. And, and that's what gnosis is. Once you have some gnosis, some knowledge, then you start to realize that it's not about harming people, you know? It's, "Do no harm."

>> Right. Right. [clears throat]

>> Yeah. I'm glad it doesn't say "talk no [ __ ]" though. [laughter]

>> Oh, they talk [ __ ]. Yeah. And they were critical of each other. That was, you read these texts, they're always, uh, yeah, talking smack. I think a new member, Ann Sky, thanks for appreciating the support and joining the channel. I think I,

>> Yeah, there you go. I was going to point that out. I missed, I missed that.

>> From Vesper 8385, thanks for your super support, and that's for you, Ray. Thoughts on the Syriac phrase "mand" appearing in the Peshitta text of Luke 17:7 where Zechariah praises John saying he'll give knowledge of life to his the Lord's people?

>> Knowledge is a great, I mean, that's a, I mean, that's appearing in,

>> Yeah, I mean, that's interesting. I, I've not read that. I mean, I should have read that, but I didn't read that. And Vesper has always got a lively conversation. He knows what he's doing. [clears throat]

>> What thoughts on that? I would like to, I know Vesper. I've talked to him before. Um, he's, I think he's in California, aren't you?

>> I, you know, I'll give you my number. You can call me or just text me and like that. We'll talk.

>> Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ray loves exchanging, uh, research with people. Uh, we got Brad Lee. Thanks, uh, for becoming a member. Really appreciate your support. Vesper said, "Yep, we'll touch base." [clears throat] You can change and exchange all these notes. So,

>> He's a good guy. I mean, a very nice guy. Mhm.

>> You know, one strange thing is, um, in, in the Bible, the reason we even know about John the Baptist, right, is, is in, in the Gospels somewhere it says that John was Baptist, and Jesus came, and Jesus baptized him and so forth. But then, uh, but then the Bible also says, well, John sort of, oh, you know, now I'm passing the mantle to you, so to speak. And so, on, on the one hand, you've got something that is based on, you know, John really being the root of all these things. On the other hand, somebody stuck something in. So, you can't trust anything you read. You know, how can I trust [laughter] anything?

>> That's a damn good point. That's, that's beautiful. It, it is. I mean, if you think about it, you can't trust any of it. Um, here's the thing. Jesus supposedly died in what, 32?

>> Oops. Oh, we lost.

>> Uh, they got him. The Vatican finally got him.

>> The Vatican,

>> or whoever is going against. Hopefully,

>> back.

>> Yeah, he's not just talking to himself for the next five minutes.

>> Here he comes.

>> Okay. All right.

>> What happened?

>> I don't know. It just, Starlink, I'm using, must have just flipped on me for a second. Um, no, I was, I was just, just thinking about it.

>> And he died in 33.

>> Yeah, he died. But the history, we have him dying in 36. I mean, you know, with Josephus's account and, uh, and that's the strange thing about it. So, what Moondog said, you can't really trust anything. I mean, you know, if, if we have actual history of the man dying in 36, then he didn't, then the whole story about John the Baptist dying and Jesus saying he's the greatest man who ever lived, born of a woman, right, is [ __ ] I mean, seriously, think about it. So, that was written after the fact.

>> Yeah. Plus, you have these characters that you couldn't ignore because they were so famous in those days. So, you had to bring them in and sort of make them, uh, subservient, like John the Baptist. Uh, Simon Magus bows down to Peter. Mary Magdalene is sort of a penitent, you know what I mean? Thomas becomes, you know, Doubting Thomas. All these Gnostic figures, they bring them in, and then they just drop them a few notches. So, 'cause that's what people, then you show that to people, and they're like, "You're right. They're just kind of second-rate actors, you know."

>> That's true. I mean, they, they, um, if you look up, what did Jesus say to, uh, Peter when he was resurrected? He's getting ready to ascend. He said, "Feed my sheep." I think people would like to look up what that meant. What that meant. [clears throat] And it's locker room talk, and the Ro, and, and the Romans knew exactly what that meant. Okay, if I say it, it means my suck my,

>> really?

>> people, people don't believe me, and they'll look it up, and they'll go, "Damn, he's right." Okay. So, I mean, that's kind of strange that they would put that in there. And at the time, the Romans knew exactly what that meant. I'm not kidding you. I didn't,

>> flipping off the apostles.

>> Yeah. I mean, he's saying something negative. It's not "feed my sheep." If you actually look, if you look it up, [laughter] and you check it out, and you start reading it, and people say, "Well, you're, you're lying. You're not telling the truth." And then they look it up, and they're like, "Wait a minute. He's not lying. He's telling the truth."

>> Who, who would actually tell you that? What doctor would come, could say, "Hey, this is what he's saying." Yeah, he is saying that. And, um, I mean, you know, I tell you what, go to AI, right?

>> And ask AI real quick, and it'll look it up for you and find it in about 30 seconds,

>> and say, "Yeah, that's what it means." So, if, let's say that, why would they put that out to a Roman audience?

>> Because betrayal in, in Rome, he betrayed Jesus. Okay. Peter did. He denied him. Okay. So, that was a physical. That was something directly against Peter. But the Christians today, they're like, "Oh, feed my sheep." Right? They're saying a common term, a nasty term. So, if, if that's exactly what he meant, which we, we don't know if that's what he meant or not. Um, but the Romans seem to think so in the second, third century. So, I mean, yeah, so, I mean, I didn't know that, and it took me, uh, 30 years, I mean, to actually figure that out. Um, and I was like, "That can't be right. That cannot be right." And, uh, but yeah, it is right. And I'm just bringing,

>> it's a very interesting, um, a lot of the scholars will say that's speculative. That's that's your own opinion. No, it's not. It's right there in black and white. So, what can I say? I can only say that there's a lot of things in the Bible that people read and they have no idea what the hell they're talking about. It's almost like, have you ever noticed this? Jesus is a life coach. Y'all notice that?

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Some, have you ever seen Christians, they'll take a Bible and they'll open it up like, you know, like, like, like, see this thing here?

>> The eightball.

>> Magic [clears throat] eightball.

>> Magic eightball.

>> Well, they'll use the Bible the same way. I could use this magic eightball. Okay. Should I do this? And then they'll go and cop out with the, "I'll go pray about it." Like God's gonna come and say, "Hey, you should, you know, do this." You know what I mean? They're full of [ __ ]. But the thing is, that's a way to get out of, like, "Hey, can I borrow some money?" And they're like, "Well, let me go pray about it." You know, that means, let me just, hopefully God says, "Fuck no." And, um, [laughter] I mean, that's, that's, that's what it is, right? Yeah. You're going to buy cigarettes with it, and, and I'm gonna write on the money, you know? Um, if, if they believed in Jesus, it says, "Give to all anyone who asks of you." Isn't that what he said?

>> Okay. So,

>> No.

>> Are they obeying Jesus? No. So, I don't think none of us do. I mean, you know, but here's the thing. If G, you know, I'm not saying Jesus isn't real. I believe my personal belief says he's a composite figure. But the thing is, maybe he was I, Misha, and, um, maybe they wrote physicals against him, the Mandians, because they hated the Roman church, you know, that would make sense.

>> Um, and they knew that was a lie. And, uh, even Epiphanius, are you familiar with Epiphanius or read his stuff? It's banana, if you read it.

>> It's vindictive.

>> He's writing angrily, and a lot of people don't realize that. They think, "Well, he's trying to put the truth out." No, he's not. He doesn't like these people. He doesn't like these Nazarenes. He can't stand them. He cannot stand Simonians either. And there was a ton of them in the third century. So, they were going around saying, "No, it's Simon, right?" And that's why they had to come up with that jackal-leg [ __ ] story that was apostolic authority, you know, through something that could not happen. Okay.

>> Have you ever, do you know the history of Polycarp?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Polycarp never mentioned he was going to be martyred in anything, and then all of a sudden, he's martyred. No one believes that anyway. But the thing is, you know, well, Christians do, and the Catholic Church does. But they also believe that, uh, you know, and then Jesus was kind of stupid, too. So, he's like, "Don't wash your hands before you eat. Demons cause sicknesses, not, uh, not, not germs." He didn't know anything. He's the Son of God. He sure didn't know [ __ ]. No. I mean, think about it. So, he'd give bad advice, but the Christians like, "Don't wash your hands before you eat. Just don't." I mean, he said not to. Don't do it. Okay? And, um, make sure you take a big [ __ ] and, and then don't wash your hands either, because that doesn't mean E. coli is fine, because it's a demon of E. coli, like the demon of head cold, the demon of driving 56 in the 55-mile-an-hour zone, right? Um, you know, I mean, that's, that's what it is. So, if you, if you love Jesus, don't wash your hands before you eat. And God forbid you're a homosexual, you know, I mean, like that, because I mean, Yahweh's got this, does God has like, he doesn't like you, you know, and he's always got to be like micromanaging everybody's life and [ __ ]. And who wants that? He reminds me of a woke liberal. Hey, you're a racist, a homophobic misogynist, right? You need to stop talking about, um, that you don't like black people. I mean, it's just crazy. I mean, it's the dumbest [ __ ] I ever heard. These people realize their religion of themselves, but we can all agree that being good to people, right? And being real with them is the best thing there is, man. I mean, you know, I want to get in the water now. I mean, I want to get out here to the Rapahanic River and I'll record it, and I'll go dunk myself in the water, right? And hopefully I die and get resurrected in that water, and I know a whole lot more. Maybe I act better. You know what I mean? [laughter]

>> Watch out for the silt, though.

>> Yeah, the silt in the eyes thing. Unless I can get a Rishi or Shama to come and take care of me. Um, I don't know. But I would love Miguel. He'd come here and go to Virginia. It's the cleanest river in Virginia. That's not saying a whole lot, though. I mean, really. [laughter]

>> Here's somebody, uh, Bradley.

>> Yeah. 432, is there a must-read on Simon Magus? I would just to start, I would just go to the, uh, no again, gnosis.org, and do the JRS Mess translation. He's got, it's a very short book. It's old, but it's right there on gnosis.org, and it's a good, uh, a good beginning about who Simon Magus was. I do have a presentation on Simon Magus on my channel. So, go to the search, Simon Magus. Uh, David Litwa's book, Simon of Samaria, is pretty good. Uh, might be pricey. I'm not sure if, if he published it while in academia, it's going to be very expensive. Any books on Simon Magus do you recommend, Ray?

>> I just read the Clement Homilies about him, and I would read what the, uh, what people said. Um, what the hell is his name? Um, the Martyr Justin Martyr. I mean, you read about Justin Martyr, talks about him and says that he was the Great Power and of God. So, I mean, it's kind of strange that you'd think that a Christian would call a heretic the Great Power of God. I mean, just does that make any sense, or were people stupid back then, or something?

>> I mean, they didn't seem stupid. I read a lot of their writing. So, but they called him, they kept referring to him as that, and I'm like, why would you refer to someone you don't like as the Great Power of God?

>> They did.

>> That's because they knew the Simonians would attack them, and they did. We don't have a lot of documentation of that. But we do have one Simonian, um, one Nazarene around Apelles' time. If you look it up, uh, Ignatius, what's his name? Talks about it. Um, he just mentions it that a guy came in saying that you're stealing our material, basically. Right. That's it. It's in one, uh, if I had it in front of me, I, I will post it, you know, on my, on my Substack, if they want to go see it. I'll give them all the information on that, and I've got everything on Simon Magus, and I'll give them all the references they want, and, uh, all the books that have been written, all the tales that have been told, and, uh, I like Morton Smith. Do you ever read his stuff?

>> Oh, yeah. A smart guy. Great books. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I like his book, The Magic, The Magician.

>> Jesus.

>> Jesus. Oh, that's an awesome book. Yeah, that's an awesome.

>> One more thing. The original sorcerer that the Talmud wrote down was Ben Stada, not Yeshua. You knew that, right?

>> The original Talmud, the oldest Talmud we have, does [clears throat] not have, um, Jesus' name in it. Doesn't say,

>> really?

>> No.

>> Oh, wow.

>> It says his name was Ben Stada. His mother was a hairdresser, or like that, right?

>> Means he was born out of wedlock or something. But,

>> they were making fun of him. It was a physical, but what it is, it tells you something. Um, and excuse me. And when I thought to myself, well, wait a minute. Why didn't it say Yeshua, right? Or,

>> it doesn't. And it was shocking. I started reading it and studying it real well, and, you know, spoke to a few rabbis and asked them to look into it, and, uh, even called over to Israel Finkelstein, if I mean, and, um, you know, asked questions because I want to know, am I right? He's, he, I'm right, that's there was no name that was later attributed years later to Yeshua. So,

>> oh, wow.

>> So, a Samaritan, they refer to him as a name, Ben Stada, which is a bad name, well, you know, son of, you know, like, or he was promiscuous, like his wife. Okay. Um, maybe that was talking about Simon, you know, I mean, this is speculative. Maybe it was talking about Helena was a prostitute. You see what I mean? Because Miriam was his mother,

>> which is Mary, the same name. But it's pretty interesting that they don't name him, which they would have, if they knew his name as Jesus.

>> Right. Right. Interesting.

>> They only later did. And then, uh, Pandira, they had that in there too. But that's the later text. See, when they added Panta in, right?

>> They, um, but that was embellished. But the first one that you read is Ben Stada.

>> So, why did that could have been Simon of Samaria?

>> And in the Bible, here's, here's, here's something remarkable that no one pays any attention to. They kind of gloss right over it. The Pharisees said, um, [clears throat] "We perceive that thou hast the devil, and thou art a Samaritan." Okay, back then, calling someone a Samaritan was a bad word unless they were a Samaritan, right? If he was Jew or member of that temple cult, he doesn't address the Samaritan accusation at all. He's like, basically, "Who cares?" He says, "No, I don't have a demon." The, you see what I mean?

>> So, he doesn't deny. And then he talks about the Samaritans as they're great people. You know, you know what I mean? Um, the Good Samaritan. I mean, everything has a Samaritan tinge to it, whatever he says. So, it sounds more like Simon, not Jesus, not a devout temple kid at 12 years old who's in my father's house, right? Total [ __ ]. But they made that up, you know. And, uh,

>> And we can follow one more thing. He descended. The word is, oh, God, I know it. It's in the Greek. Look in, uh, Luke chapter 4, and everyone watching, and go look up the word where it says he descended into Capernaum. Look at the athon, athon, I can't remember the word. Um, it says he descended. It doesn't say that he came. It says he came down, but look at the word they use. That's the same as the Holy Spirit coming down from heaven. Exact same word.

>> So, Marsonian was right when,

>> Yeah, Marcion was correct. Yeah. He was correct.

>> Yep. Jesus is Boop. Appears like Superman, just.

>> That's exactly right. That's exactly what Marcion said. Marcion said he appeared in Capernaum, or he came down in Capernaum. That's exactly what it says in the Bible. Yes. So, um, the, the Orthodox Church, or the fake apostolic succession church, was lying, and we can, there's a line right there. You catch them, and if you look at it, you're like, "Wait a minute." So, that means that this Ura, that's what the Mandians said, that he descended in Jerusalem. So, obviously, he was going back and forth. Um, that's another thing that was strange. Remember when Jesus would disappear in the Bible to go pray or whatever they called it?

>> It's the same thing that they talk about the Ura. They said he would, he would disappear. [clears throat]

>> And John, he's always going through walls and just,

>> Yeah. Ascending. And what was that book that you were talking about where he had footprints and sometimes he didn't? Remember that?

>> Yeah, I forgot.

>> Yeah, that's, that's, uh, that's Docetism. But the thing is, is, um, I mean, who knows? I mean, who,

>> maybe he was an Ura. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Maybe he was. I mean, look, if we take and we put in spiritual things, right, instead of, uh, and we think about it in that in that manner of respect, just start, we all sit here and think on it for a second, right? Let's just say he was. Let's just say he, I mean, let's just hypothetically say for a second, metaphysically, we can use that, and let's say he was an Ura. Let's say he was from above, and we're from below. You see what I mean? Then he would be the light of the, he would be everything he said he was.

>> And, um, you know, and as long as I'm in the world, you know, I mean, so he's teaching and trying to get people to, you know, to understand. And then Simon said he, he descended too, to save his, uh, Ennoia, his first thought. What do you think that means?

>> His first thought? Well, I mean, obviously the Gnostics thought that God had lost his wisdom.

>> He, she, she was the, she was consciousness incarnate.

>> So, his first thought?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Just like, you know, Shiva has Shakti, Shakti, Shakti, uh, God has the first thought, which is usually female, Barbelo, Protonoya, [clears throat] and all that. So, um, she, you know, he's awareness, and she is creation, or consciousness, in effect. So, if the angels can get that power, then they have the power of creation.

>> Yeah, that's, that's good. He, and he also said that he descended into Sheol. So, he, so Simon referred to this world as hell.

>> Right.

>> Yeah. [clears throat] Just like, yeah, that's normal. Yeah. Socrates thought we lived in Hades. Origen thought we were, Earth was just the highest plane of hell. So, it was, it was not uncommon in those days, because, you know, our world, you know, we do live in a world of violence and death and temporality, and, you know, it's not an easy place to thrive.

>> I tell you, you're the master of narcissism. I mean, when I, I call you, ask you questions, I mean, he knows, I mean, I mean, Miguel is so, uh, well-read and understood. I mean, he knows what he's doing. Um, I, um, when I read it, I'm like, "Well, what the hell does that mean?" Maybe I don't have enough gnosis [laughter] to understand it. I don't, I'm like, "Okay, so I'll ponder it and ask my wife and drive everybody crazy in my house, what the hell do you think this means?"

>> You get like that, and they're like, "Oh, hell, I don't know."

>> You know, I'm like, "Uh, take a guess." And my son Jacob, he's 26, and he, he'll answer the question and try to think it out. Everyone [snorts] else won't, you know, like, "I don't know." But, um, I think that Simon was a, um, he's attested. I don't care, even Polycarp. You don't write bad stuff about someone who doesn't exist. Um, they really hated him. And I think they hated him because he told the truth. That's the thing. I think that he tried to free us from this, uh, material world, this thought, this ignorant pollution that we think daily, right? He wanted us to, um, ascend, you like he does. You know, you can do what I do. Like Jesus said, you'll do more greater miracles than me. So, I [clears throat] think that we all could do that. I mean, you know, not some law, lifestyle, letter of the law [ __ ], but we could, you know, we could do a lot better, I guess. I mean, you know, and not, not go along with everything and not be brainwashed by everything that comes along, you know. I mean, that's, uh, I think they have a lot, these Gnostics. I think they knew a hell of a lot more than they wrote down,

>> you know. Yeah. And, uh, I didn't, I've never seen Gnostics out killing people anywhere. I mean, you know, I mean, fighting wars or any of that stuff. It seems like they were just all about the love toward other people, and they were secretive, and that's annoying. But the thing is, is, you know, I mean, they wouldn't tell everything. But,

>> you know, I think that we could all live in a, um, a lot better world if we could just get rid of people who are followers. I mean, uh, the other day I was like, how could I ever be a patriot to the United States of America, right? I fought in two wars for this country in 1989 and 1991, and I was an active combat soldier. So, and I was real patriotic, you know, and then I realized how stupid I was. I mean, know, really. I mean, I, I was just so brainwashed into nonsense,

>> you know, that I would kill because someone told me to. He said, I would never do that again. But I think we all make mistakes, and we all have to forgive ourselves first. You send me for what? For for being,

>> followers. But the thing is, is I really enjoy being on the show here, and I really enjoy all the people in the audience. And, uh, if he sends me an email, it's, um, Dr. Taylor, Dr. Ray Taylor.com. Anyone can send me an email. I don't care. If they go to my Substack, um, they can, uh, they can contact me through there because there's messages, you know, and I can read them there and call them and whatever. I don't care. I'll talk to anyone. I mean, I enjoy talking to people, and I listen, I love hearing what they have to say, even though I talk too much. Um, you know, so, and I enjoy talking to Miguel. Miguel's got, I got to go. I can't talk no more. I know. [laughter]

>> In the middle of an errand, he's talking about, um, shopping for shampoo at the store, you know. [laughter] Usually it is. Oh, I always enjoy talking to you, man. I always enjoy either here on the phone or wherever we meet. It's always a blast. It's like, you said, it's learning. We make mistakes. We adjust our views. We just keep going.

>> Well, look, man. I'm so glad your health is is better, man. I mean, that's the thing. Everyone out there, man, send good vibes. Pray. Whatever you got to do, right?

>> They work.

>> Yeah. Pray for me, too. I mean, if you want to. I mean, you know, and, uh, I, it'd be cool. I mean, like that. And, um, and Moondog there, he's like, "Hey, you're leaving me out of the prayer fest here, right? Throw some his way." You know what I mean? And, um, yeah, that's all we got to do. I mean, I'm not, look, I'm very critical of [ __ ] of stuff, you know, especially when people don't want the truth. If they just want book deals, you know, making money on YouTube with, you know, like everyone needs to make money, but, you know, but, um, and, and look, and I make fun of things like, you know, guy getting up there whining about he didn't have a pool heater, you know, at his house, you know what I'm talking about? And, um, that still makes me laugh. Dude gets up there on YouTube. He's like, "We moved into a new $275,000 home and we need more money because go to my Patreon because my wife is pissed off because the pool heater don't work."

>> Did you see the video I'm talking about?

>> No, it's, it's on Myth Vision. Derek put it out. I mean, I'm not against Derek. I mean, Derek's probably a nice guy if you like assholes, I mean, people. Um, but the thing is, you know, I'm just a trick. People don't like me that, oh, you supported Trump. No, I actually supported Trump because Bob did. And, um, plus I like my Second Amendment, you know, and I like my First Amend. I like my First Amendment. And, um, I'm a Gen Xer, just like you are. When we grew up, man, you know what what they did? Go outside.

>> Yeah.

>> You, it's outside time. Get the hell out of here. And if you weren't dying or anything, they just rub some dirt on it. Just walk down the street. Walk it off. Just walk it off. Yeah. I got this big gash in my head, but just get the hell out of here and wash it off. Me and your mom are talking, you know. Yeah, that's how we lived.

>> Our boomer parents did not want us.

>> Yeah, it was. [laughter] They were, they were too busy, I don't know, watching TV or whatever.

>> Yeah, they, they,

>> whatever they were doing. [clears throat]

>> Yeah, it was beautiful though, in a way. I mean, we grew up,

>> Yeah. Yeah. We were outside and reading books, going on nature, uh, getting in trouble. So,

>> we didn't, we didn't cry about anything. We didn't worry about anything. And we definitely didn't care about people's feelings. I mean, because our feelings were [ __ ] on. So, I mean, you know, we learned it. And, um, so even today, I mean, we may be a different generation, and there's a bunch of wackados out there that, you know, you admit, um, you know, I mean, some crazy ass people. Um, affirming genders and stuff. I don't care about that [ __ ]. I mean, it doesn't bother me. I don't care. I mean, you can do whatever you want. Um, just don't expect me to, you know, just, I don't have to like it. I mean, it's just, don't, and I don't have to hate it either. I just don't have to have any feelings about it. That's it. I just don't care. But what about you? I mean, what do you think about it? I mean, this new generation.

>> I don't know. Verdict is still out. I mean, I, I understand. Um, uh, we, the powers that be really [ __ ] up their future. Homeowners, uh, economy, there's very little future.

>> So, in a way, I don't blame them. And, uh, they need to understand, yeah, the system was rigged, and it's just going to get worse. So,

>> Big government and venture capital together.

>> Corp. That's called fascism, isn't that, Vance? When business and government,

>> Oh, yeah, that's, that is the, uh, literal definition of it. Yeah.

>> Join for pure authoritarian power. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I mean,

Yeah, I I did support Trump, you know, like that when people say it, but I did a video on it, you know. It's because I couldn't stand Cabala Harris just because she when she laughed, every time she laughed, I was cringing, you know what I mean? I mean, she just had this nervous laugh and she drove me nuts, man. I'd see her on TV and I'm like, she be [clears throat] she was the first Indian woman elected, now she's the first black woman. And I'm like, wait a minute, man. She's just trying to play off of that, you know? I don't want to deal with that. So, I voted for Trump, you know, like that. But that doesn't make me the worst guy in the world that I voted for Trump. Well, some people would say so.

But I did support him until he went in there and and attacked Iran and did all kinds of [ __ ] that I don't like, but um you know, so no, I love Palestinians. I love Israelis even though I think they're batshit nuts, wanting to kill everybody and all starting all these wars and [ __ ] but you know, no, I don't like that. I just I want peace and love and kindness and good just like everybody else brothers like that. I believe our generation will do things that our generation isn't doing because supposed to be fighting not them. Yeah, Rodney's got a good one there. Rodney, I just saw his you see him right there.

>> Let's see. I believe this generation will do things that our generation isn't doing because it was supposed to be us fighting, not them. Yeah. >> Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. [clears throat] Again, uh, every generation has the power. You have the power. You just got to >> Don't let these guys mind control you. Make them afraid of you. Don't do what they tell you to do. Don't Don't buy their propaganda. They only care about their own power. These people at the top, same as it ever was. So, >> yeah. And this AI [ __ ] is scaring people, too. And um you know I mean they think that remember back in Sarah Connor we're fighting AI and now now we're not >> really getting into it. >> Yeah. >> You I thought AI I mean you know the Terminator and [ __ ] we we just won't learn. You remember that uh John Connor was talking to Terminator. >> There's no hope for us is it? He's like no you're going to do the dumbest [ __ ] in the world. And uh well we we are we have and we still will because we don't have nosis. You know that's the thing. We're lacking knowledge. What does it say? My people perish for what? Lack of knowledge. >> Ignorance. Like the Mandans. Wash away the ignorance. >> Yeah. I like the Mandians. Have you ever met one? Talk to them. >> Unfortunately, I have not. >> I talked to him, but Bloodbath McGrath gets involved. I'm sorry. I call him that. But, you know, I was talking to him and um all of a sudden they cut me off because of McGrath. I guess I'm thinking it is. Maybe it's not. You know, if you did it, McGrath, then you're a bad guy. But the thing is is uh you know, I was talking to them and u you know, and learning a lot from them and they're really good people, really nice, but um I mean, they are like uh but they never answer questions straight. I mean, it's it's really weird. It's like in the Bible, I'm sitting there talking to Jesus, right? And he doesn't answer me, right? He just gives you another like parable, a riddle. It's like, "Riddle me this or riddle me that." And I'm talking to one of the Rashamas in California. And I'm like, I said, "Hey, how you doing?" He says, "Uh, uh, I'm doing okay." And I'm like, "Okay." He can speak English halfway decent. Pretty decent. And, uh, all of a sudden he starts riddling me, man. Every question I ask him is a damn riddle. He answers it with like, uh, yes. And if you have seven frogs and eight something, I'm like, what in the hell is this guy talking? >> I mean, seriously. I mean, and I'm like, >> the ground speed of an African swallow, right? >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. I'm like, why is he I mean I said, how about Simon? Can you tell me? He said, Shimone, I mean, he recognized it. He knew what I was talking about. And I said, um, do you think that Simon is Jesus? Right. No. He said, he actually said, "No." And but he thinks that I said, "You think Simon is the URA, right?" Well, um, what did you say? I said, "You think that Simon is the Utra, right?" And the guy's like, "Well, um, I can't say." I said, "Well, um, uh, can you put me on the phone with somebody who can can talk to me about it?" Um, no. I mean, they're straight up with you. No. I said, "Okay, so I'm going to go ahead and say that Simon is the UT. How about that?" And he started laughing on the phone, right? And he started giggling, you know? I was like, "Okay." Um then about a week later I call him back and u his daughter gets on the phone and says well blood bath McGrath doesn't know you and doesn't like you and and you shouldn't be talking to the to Mandians because uh you know it's very dangerous you know because you're if people watch the YouTube or whatever you're on you read your papers and you mention the names which I have never done of any of these people that you could be putting people in danger in other countries. and they're trying to get them in this country. Um, Jorgens, what's her name? Uh, the lady who writes all the books on the Mandians. I have a lot of two her books, but I cannot remember her name right now. Um, she gets them in the country. She works them through immigration and brings them over here as refugees. And um, she's doing a good job at it and I and I commend her for it, but I cannot remember. Yorn is her name, right? And Jacobson. You ever heard of her? No, [clears throat] >> she wrote extensive work on Mandians. >> Wow. >> Yeah, she >> we better uh we better wrap it up here. We're going on quite a long uh >> Oh, >> been quite a show. Uh it's been an amazing show. It's been a blast. Very enlightening. So, I've got your Substack on the show notes. Uh that's where you want to send people, Ray? >> Yeah. Yeah. They can go there. Wise the Serpent. There's some videos up there they can watch. uh the YouTube channel. It has it has some good videos if they want to. Um, it's up to them. I mean like that. And uh it's like this, man. Love you Moond Dog and Miguel and everyone out there, man. Much love to everyone out there that's real and really wants to know the truth. That's it. >> It is. It is. >> Keep digging. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You are You have You have the nosis. You've got the divine spark. You can see things. And as far as the the riddles and all that, I don't know, Ry, I think I've learned in life that whenever you go ask a question or get a tarot reading or anything, pray, you already know the answer. [clears throat] You just, you know, when people give you the answer, you won't believe it because your ego won't want to believe it. So sometimes it's uh I think these people just play that game because as humans, we're very good at fooling ourselves. So >> that's true. >> But uh so I think that's why they do it. But anyway, yeah, thanks for coming, Ray. Enjoyed it. Uh Vance, thanks for keeping us company. For the audience, as always, enjoy your company, enjoy your support, and enjoy your nosis. And yeah, keep coming back, keep supporting Amite. Uh keep uh rebelling. As Clark Emory said, the awakening of an individual is a cosmic event. As I always say, the awakening of an individual is a cosmic rebellion. So all you waking up is half the battle right there. You got the archons where you want them and you will make the powers that be afraid. So with that said, I appreciate everybody and uh take care and enjoy the rest of uh eternity. Bye.