Transcription
[Music] Hello. How's it going? It's Satu.
So, today we have a special guest, Chinatan. Thank you so much for coming to my channel today.
>> Thank you for having me.
>> All right. So, I've been following her for a very long time because her English is just amazing. Spot on, top notch. You know, I can use all the adjectives to qualify her English. Her English is amazing.
>> Stop.
>> So, I always wanted to do a bit of a collab with you to ask you some questions. So, we've got a list of questions today. So, I really want to do a deep dive into how you learned English because your English is just amazing. But before getting started,
>> yes,
>> I think there are some people who don't know much about you. So, if you could introduce yourself briefly, that would be great.
>> Hi guys, I'm Chinatim. Uh my I'm also running a YouTube channel as well. It's called Chinatu the Imam. And don't ask me about the name. So now I live in Melbourne. Um I've been in Australia for like 10 years. 10 years plus I would say. Um I was like back and forth between Japan and Australia. So I can't really tell how long exactly I've been here. By the way, I was born and raised in Japan. Um I'm from I'm a country girl. Um, and I would say until I turned 20, um, I did work in holiday. Um, I had never I had never been overseas
>> properly.
>> That's what I wanted to hear cuz whenever I do a club with somebody who went to international school, it's a little bit disappointing cuz it's very hard for the audience
>> to apply what they did to their English studies. So I think in your case
>> your background is very similar to mine
>> in the sense that you know we grew up in Japan and didn't have many opportunities to talk in our childhood.
>> So what made you uh interested in learning English? So what was the driving force? I would say, you know, some people like music and some people like cooking and gardening or I don't know, for example, I like dogs and neck, but I think you don't need a solid reason for it. Like I like English because I just love the sound. You know, some people study Italian because they love the sounds and the culture. And in my case, I can't really tell like why, but I'm just fascinated.
>> Was there like a light bulb moment that okay, English is what I want to study or something?
>> Uh, first of all, probably it's quite common, but I loved listening to music in English. Like I was a huge fan of Michael Jackson and he was huge in my youth
>> since when?
>> Junior high school.
>> Oh, junior high. I mean so so probably it was a good timing you know we started getting into English around the time and um and I was like oh I want to understand everything you know in each song um but obviously I couldn't and also probably as I said I'm from a small town I was
>> longing for like oh I want to see a bigger world yeah and then I think English felt like oh probably it can give me some more opportunity unities for me to see the world. Um
>> I don't know but I can't really say.
>> So that's so that was when you were in uh junior high school when you started feeling like maybe English could broaden your horizons in the future.
>> That's it.
>> But you didn't really have an opportunity to seriously
>> dive into the world of learning English.
>> Yeah, that's it. Because I had never met like English speakers properly, you know, probably the same. Yeah,
>> I told you uh a couple of weeks ago, but I was more into piano that time and I thought I would be an piano
>> Yeah.
>> teacher or music teacher.
>> And then I started junior high school. Um and I was like, "Oh, I like this." And I kind of knew I was good at it, too. Oh, yeah. I don't know.
>> I'm jealous.
>> And I was like, "Oh, I enjoy it." And
>> I'm not sure because I can't remember. at that time, you know, I was reading textbooks and stuff and I was like, "Oh, I think I'm good at it."
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> Um, and I think that confidence whether I was good at it actually or not, like I think it gave me confidence like, "Oh,
>> I can speak English."
>> And, and that's another thing actually like you don't have to be able to say, you know, smart things like even like you can say good morning with confidence.
>> It's already good. So
>> English is not as difficult as other subjects in my opinion like it's just a communication tool basically and there isn't like many calculations that you've got to do off the top of your head you know there isn't much that complicated involved so like many people have this perception that English studies seem very difficult probably because of the way grammar and everything is being taught in class
>> but like if you look at it closely it's not as hard right
>> I I really want people to know that English is flexible.
>> It's very flexible. Um I think it's a shame that a lot of people feel like, "Oh, I can't speak English." But actually, you can.
>> And going back to your mentioning of uh you started learning how to play the piano,
>> right? When was it? Was it when you were in primary school or
>> prim uh primary school? Yeah. Year one, right?
>> You say year one to
>> grade one.
>> Grade one.
>> Yeah. uh grade one to until high school.
>> Until high school. Okay. Wow. So
>> and I was quite into it. So
>> like nine years, 10 years
>> pretty much.
>> Oh wow. Okay. Cuz it's often said that like there is scientific evidence that there is a correlation between like your experience of learning how to play a musical instrument and like music in general with
>> um your ability to learn a second language. Yeah.
>> So, it could have made a slight contribution to
>> Yeah, actually cuz um I told Adson that um I was um practicing piano for a while and Adson said that oh probably that's why you know your listening skills kind of improve.
>> Yeah, your pronunciation is just spot on. Like
>> look the thing is honestly
>> when it comes to pronunciation I didn't do anything special
>> right I did a lot of things special. So,
>> but the thing is I also I I don't want to sound like you know, oh, I'm good at it, you know. Uh, but but one thing that it was like not intentionally, but what I was doing was like listening well. People listen, but there's a huge gap between listen and listen well.
>> You need to listen very well,
>> right?
>> What do you mean by listening? Well,
>> and it's it's funny because it's not like a technique for example. Okay. Also, it's not a formula as well. Okay.
>> If you do 1 + 1, it equals um two kind of thing. So, when you listen, for example, Atan, he is an expert of English, but he's still learning. I mean, trying to improve his English. And now you're doing like, how is it called? Like pronunciation.
>> Yeah, pronunciation lessons. a private
>> lesson from Aussie
>> from Australian pronunciation coach.
>> Yeah. So, and then
>> and then he taught me that he taught me that. So, one of my favorite expressions and in English um it's fair enough. Fair enough. And in Australia, people people don't really say like fair or like you know here or there. People say here or there, right?
>> The R sound at the end of a word is usually omitted.
>> Yeah. So let's say you know fair enough separately and I'm I'm correct. Am I?
>> Yes, you are.
>> Fair enough. But if you combine those two words, it's going to be fair enough. Am I?
>> Yeah. Fair enough. Right.
>> So there's a bit of like sounds between fair enough. But I've been saying um until I met someone in person.
>> That was a game changer.
>> You're a game changer. Actually, you changed my life.
>> Um, I've been saying fair enough. Can you see the difference? Fair enough. Fair enough. See, there's a bit of a sound. But actually, I was not listening well. That's why I couldn't see, you know, there's a bit of R sound. So, actually, I was bad uh in this case. But this is the thing like can you hear it or not? like even like if you say fair enough people understand it and you can kind of proceed but
>> so basically what you're saying is hearing and listening are two different things right like a lot of people like have this misunderstanding that being in an English speaking environment will automatically
>> make their English
>> pretty good but actually just hearing not being attentive enough
>> to the details of the sound that they are speaking.
>> Yeah.
>> Is actually the cause of them not really being able to speak English after spending so many years in an English speaking country. So like you've lived in Australia for a long time already and I'm pretty sure that you've met some Japanese
>> who've lived here about the same amount of time or you know maybe even more.
>> Yeah. More than yours but still struggling to you know improve their English. And I think the difference between you and them is that like
>> awareness like whether or not they are making conscious efforts or not.
>> That's it. Yeah. But I think you don't have to if you don't want to.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. The thing is because I love English and I think I'm kind of sensitive to just sounds and actually like I think another thing is well as I said I love learning English. So it's like a endless you know journey isn't it? So I challenge accepted like I'll do it. But once you can kind of communicate in English without trouble, like let's say you've been in Australia for a few years and then now you can communicate. A lot of people stop there like okay
>> yeah it's okay it's okay but because learning English is my passion. So you know probably most of the people they want to use the extra energy for something else
>> you know in life but in my case
>> I don't mind using extra time and energy for that thing. Um, so
>> yeah,
>> that's me
>> and I totally understand where you're coming from because
>> you know once you get to the point where you can communicate without having any issues from that point onwards if you don't try to improve your English
>> like all the effort that you're going to put into learning English will be just for the sake of maintaining your current level.
>> That's it. Yeah.
>> And feeling no growth in the process is very depressing.
>> Yeah. Especially it's got a growth mindset cuz you know you want to be better and better and better.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And that's where my passion and energy really comes from this sense of achievement and growth
>> and if you don't feel it like it's like running on a treadmill like
>> rat race.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Stay in a wheel. So yeah to avoid that I think having this mindset that you always need to be better
>> better. Yeah. even little by little like slowly and steadily is completely fine but feeling like a tiny sense of achievement every minute that you spend on learning English I think it's very critical
>> that's it and another thing is because uh we met a couple of weeks ago and um again you know he's taking the private course and he taught me some like pronunciation tricks and for example some words like advantages
>> advantages
>> advantages am I good now advantages and then we've been learning English for many years but still there are so many things like we can't master
>> like there's so many things that we have to we still have to
>> I know right
>> you know smash and then it's actually good
>> that's why learning English is so fun
>> but I think it's all about again I think it's the same thing like some people stop just there which is fine um but if you want to go a bit further.
>> I really like the way you say again like it's not again but it's again right
>> I I think that's right as well. There are two types of pronunciation for the word
>> and I think a lot of people say again like usually but like some people do say again.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know where you picked it up but like noticing all those
>> conscious listen
>> but you know not many people can talk about it for like hours about English you know what I mean? Uh but for us it's just fun like small findings and like again small achievements it's just so fun. Um yeah I love it.
>> Yeah. So going back to the topic of today's video which was how you learned English. Yeah.
>> Right. So you started learning uh piano. Yeah.
>> And um you started being interested in learning English in your in junior high school. Right. But when was that point when you started seriously
>> learning it?
>> I would say in junior high school what I did was pretty much just reading textbooks and doing a bit of extra.
>> What was the extra
>> extra? For example, did you have the notebook like you write like tomorrow's schedule?
>> Okay.
>> You know, oh, yeah, you know, diary.
>> Diary kind of thing. And we had to write like three lines diary
>> in English.
>> Oh, no. In Japanese, but I did extra English one like at the very end
>> in junior high school. Yeah.
>> Oh, wow. Did anyone tell you to do that or?
>> No. No. But I wanted to do it. And
>> the teacher who was looking after us
>> Mhm. She was she was a history teacher. Um but she always comment me she left a comment in English like a good job or like you know sounds great or something like that. Um
>> was it because she knew that you were learning English?
>> Yeah. It's so sweet. Um to be honest in junior high school I didn't know what to do.
>> Like I didn't know about shadowing or like like chant listening to chants or kick or something like that. I didn't do anything special. But when I started high school, well, pretty much the same thing that you did in school like jugeno.
>> Yeah.
>> So hard.
>> But nothing really special like you know I I didn't go to any like English
>> private lessons or anything like that.
>> Just I was um
>> good student,
>> right? So doing the chicken beno
>> was the first time when you started like intensively
>> intensively. Yeah. It was probably the same to you, same with you like it was more for
>> juken.
>> Did you have a chance to speak at all during the phase of preparing yourself for the exam?
>> Um, not much just for interview.
>> So in high school you couldn't really communicate in English but just had like cra had to cram a lot of knowledge.
>> Yeah, that's it. And I actually tried shadowing
>> at the time but
>> did I just did? No, I I couldn't do anything.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Yeah. So, I I didn't understand the system as well. So,
>> um
>> you have to have a specific purpose before
>> Yeah. implementing it, I guess.
>> Yeah. No, I couldn't do it. And I because I knew that I had to do the interview in English. So, I practiced a little bit, but I still remember that I just couldn't say much.
>> It frustrated me so much. But I didn't know how to do it cuz I think this is what a lot of people go through. You want to speak but you don't know how.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you think that Jukan Beno was helpful in establishing foundations for your future learning or did it help at all?
>> Probably I don't want to deny it because now I can read in English comfortably but thanks to all the readings and stuff. Yeah. And I think I'm not really good at using different vocabularies like Adson to be honest, but I can read and I can understand. But probably it's because I did intensive kick, you know, chant
>> um you know, I don't practice or whatever. Yeah. So I would say yes, but
>> we really have to understand that it's a bit different. Do you agree or
>> different to practical English?
>> Actually, I want to hear. Yeah, I mean like grammar rules for instance that we are taught in class are the same as grammar rules that we apply in practice
>> as well. So I think compulsory education and like jukeno are pretty useful in like establishing the fundamental part of learning English. But yeah, like like I said, grammar rules pretty much the same. Vocabulary that you learned from like those typical vocabulary books are in use actually like living here probably you notice people are actually using them.
>> Example sentences might be a different issue because they are pretty
>> like academic focused mostly. said
>> and also the problem is like
>> you know there's like a cob anki
>> and I don't think it's bad because I I did it too but the thing is in real life it's actually hard to put kind of customize it
>> in your own way cuz so okay while you speak because you've got something you want to say and it doesn't match with the example sentences all the time
>> and some people might start with like okay I'm going to it's like a puzzle slow, isn't it? Like, okay, I put this piece in and stuff. It actually takes time.
>> Yeah.
>> So, sometimes what I regret was
>> um when I was studying English in Japan,
>> I didn't allow myself to make any mistakes
>> always. Okay. There is so you have to put the right word
>> and if you can't do it right, then you're wrong.
>> But it's okay.
>> Yeah. It's okay to make mistakes.
>> Mistakes. And also as I said, English is flexible and actually fixing it later is much easier.
>> I don't know how you feel about it, but
>> yeah, I believe so. And
>> and also I think it's very important to have this ability to rectify yourself
>> by yourself, if that makes sense. Know what I mean? Like nobody will correct you for living in an English-speaking country. So
>> you can make mistakes but at the same time you have to have an eye for identifying mistakes that you are making while talking.
>> That's it.
>> So like while talking you're like oh I made mistakes but like it's okay like you can correct it after finishing the conversation like when you're by yourself you can repeat the same sentence correcting them being yeah being conscious about it and then repeat it again and again so that you don't make the same mistake. And I think that's the advantage of being an adult, right? Like we can think about it.
>> That's true. That's true. That's true. I think a lot of people are waiting for someone
>> who is like kind of higher than them like or smarter than them fix it. So they always I mean I I was like that before like oh my English is not good. Oh, tell me everything. But people don't tell you what to do.
>> It's so inefficient as well.
>> That's it. Yeah.
>> Having to have somebody else, a third party to correct your English. endless.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. So, I think you also need the courage to set out, you know, okay, this is right. Okay. I need to fix this. I like this. I don't like this. So, if you've got the if you've got the fixed mindset,
>> then I think it's hard. It's hard to get out of that,
>> you know, trap, I would say. So I'd like people to like think of what they learn in class as a way to build this mechanism that allows them that enables them
>> to rectify themselves in the future. So it's just a way or tool that allows for the best efficiency in their learning process in the future if that makes sense.
>> Yeah, that's it. Yeah. So rather than like using them directly to communicate but like rather like having that like guide book
>> yeah in your mind is really helpful in the future but speaking wise yeah not great so I'm pretty sure that you broke through it
>> and you had a paradigm shift in your English learning journey at some point after that preparation phase.
>> What was that moment?
>> Okay. What did you actually do to change yourself and you know get to what you are now?
>> Yeah, I would say it took a while for me because I think I was a perfectionist and I had a strong fixed mindset. Okay, I have to speak like this and especially because I was so like serious about juken. So I also didn't understand how English is used in real life as well. So I have to say it took a while. So I can't really tell my viewers to be honest. I'm just being honest with you. Like I'm not the best person to has achieved like English brain like quicker. It took a while for me. But actually when I started the job like current job which I started 6 years ago um I think my English was not that great at that time. But you know when it comes to work you have to do it. You can't say oh I can't speak English you know. No choice.
>> No. And especially that was the environment where um I couldn't use Japanese
>> in in Australia.
>> Uh my previous workplace was like mix of Japanese people like um you know their parents are Japanese or so I was always able to look for help but um not this workplace and that pressure actually made me go like okay I have to do this right. And and then I think I kind of started allowing myself to speak imperfect English. And then the thing is people understand me and because I like learning English and I want to improve it constantly. So if I make a mistake I go like oh I didn't say it right. So I will fix it and I fix fix six years constant fixing and I'm still fixing. So I would say the experience that I got to know like oh making a mistake is it's really like it's not a big deal.
>> Mhm.
>> And actually my English is not too bad. So I think at work again um I think just a small kind of wins like oh I said it wrong but people understood me but because I don't like it I will fix it next time. And then it's also conscious listening as well and not about pronunciation but more about the phrases that people use. I started listening more consciously. For example, in retail you can say um can I help you at all?
>> Can I help you at all?
>> Can I help you at all? I didn't learn it back in school
>> but at first I couldn't understand at all at all at all first but then I was like oh it is at all right and then I will use it and then after that I was like hey can I help you at all or like what are you after
>> what are you after and I thought that's so cool I'm going to use it
>> so yeah it's a work I know it's hard for it's it's difficult for a lot of Japanese people
>> I did exactly the same thing Yeah. Copying people's phrases and incorporating them in my sentences
>> so that I can make my English sound more similar to what others speak
>> so that like I can mingle better and like you know be part of the culture if that makes sense.
>> Yeah. And then just don't be afraid. Don't be shy. Just use it. And if if you make a mistake it's fine. You know people just say sorry and then you can just say it again or fix it and say different way. So,
>> so was that the phase where you think that your English dramatically improved
>> your work experience?
>> Something
>> something happened.
>> Something happened and it felt great.
>> And I'm pretty sure that like that something wouldn't have happened without your effort that you put in like while you were in Japan studying English. So, I'm pretty sure that like it became a very strong foundation
>> for it to come out. You just needed that experience.
>> I think so.
>> Yeah. But like without having any fundamentals, it would would have been a completely different experience. I'm pretty sure.
>> Yeah. Like
>> so you know it's it's a phase where you start connecting all the thoughts
>> in your head. You know what I mean?
>> And then at some point they all get connected
>> and then you go like, "Oh, that's why I've been working so hard." You know, this is why I've been working hard for this. M
>> and I still remember I I actually
>> I don't know which year but I was on the way home
>> from work and I was walking and I was like
>> oh actually I was not afraid of speaking English thinking like oh which phrase to use or something like that like I'm not sure if I did it well but I was speaking English.
>> Yeah.
>> Great feeling.
>> Yeah. That's it. Yeah. And I really want people to feel it too because it feels so good
>> and I think it's possible for anyone because you know we grew up in Japan and I thought it would be impossible for me to get here cuz I didn't grow up with English but now you know we not really thinking about Japanese at all right like it's really smooth but it's possible.
>> Yeah. So I can definitely relate to your experience of like having to crab lots of knowledge is very boring and you don't really see yourself getting there. But um if you immerse yourself in an environment where English is spoken and then you have to force yourself to output what you've crammed
>> that's when you start feeling that breakthrough. And that's the moment when you think that okay your effort didn't go to waste at all.
>> Yes. I often say that there are two different phases in English studies if you take a step back and in the grand scheme of things two layers. So the first layer
>> is the phase where you study English,
>> right? And the second phase is the phase where you start using English to do something different.
>> You know what I mean? So in my case, I study English a lot in Japan and then came to Australia to study accounting and became an accountant to work as a professional.
>> Yeah.
>> And that was the second phase. So like a lot of people have this mindset that okay I've got to study English throughout the rest of my life but like yes you have to keep learning
>> but it's different from like using a textbook and you know keep learning in the same way
>> after reaching a certain level you have to dive into the actual like practical pragmatic world where you start applying you have lots of opportunities to apply what you learned
>> to real life.
>> Yeah. Like it's a shame a lot of people go back to study again like they lose confidence and then oh I can't speak English and then they go back to like study but you have to do something differently
>> to go to the next level as you said I think that too you know a lot of people just go but just just go there
>> yeah just go and sometimes coming back here is
>> it's okay
>> it's okay I think sometimes it's needed because like you
>> tend to become like very complacent about your English
>> you after being in that environment because like you're confident enough to communicate and you know that okay my English is already pretty good probably I don't
>> have to do the English studies anymore but like
>> when you come back to that phase and then do a bit of studies like you realize that oh actually there were quite a lot of missing pieces
>> that's it yeah
>> yeah and then you start collecting them again and put them together and then come back to the real world
>> and then going back and forth Yeah.
>> Is pretty effective.
>> Effective like especially if you go to the next next level.
>> Yeah. Like you
>> cuz in my case for instance I'm taking pronunciation lessons and I learn a lot every time
>> and I wouldn't have actually noticed those like small tiny differences when I was
>> learning in Japan. So like coming back here gaining knowledge going back
>> and like going back and forth this is pretty good.
>> It's good. And you know the thing is again look
>> people don't tell you what to fix unless you go to that kind of private lesson.
>> Absolutely.
>> You have to pay for it.
>> You have to pay for it. He's paying quite a bit. I can't afford it. Um, yeah, I I totally agree.
>> All right. So we talked quite a lot about how to approach English and the way you learned English definitely resonated with the audience. I'm pretty sure. And last but not least, do you have a message for the audience for people who are learning English now?
>> Okay. Well, I'm not sure if you're going to use this part or not, but I will.
>> As I said, as I said, as I said, I was born and raised in Japan and I just went to a public junior high and high school. And I tell you, like when I was younger, I thought it wouldn't happen. It wouldn't happen. Like, oh, I don't think I can speak English. I mean I might be able to but like not like this but like if you want to you can it's always you who stop you from achieving something especially in this generation it's quite difficult because you hear so many noises okay you should do this you can't do this you can't do it but in the end you decide what to do what what you use and then what you study and how you study like believing in yourself and like anything is possible. If you stop there,
>> that's it.
>> But if you keep going, you never know where you're going to get. And I'm still surprised like what's happening in my life now.
>> Mhm.
>> I'm speaking English with like this and it's possible.
>> Thanks for saying that.
>> So, and honestly, like anything is possible
>> and if you love it, just go for it,
>> right? If you love it, just go for it.
>> Go for it.
>> That was a good punch line for sure. All right. Thank you so much for coming to my channel.
>> No, thank you for having me.
>> Really appreciate it.
>> I appreciate it. [Music] [Music] [Music]