Transcription
Hello. So, why don't you introduce yourself?
Hi. Hello, Sara. Um, I'm Mike. I live in Porto in Portugal. I've been all my life connected to technologies and software development and then my life took me to uh the JAL world and currently I'm the director of agile ways of working.
Nice. And what inspired you to join the leadership lending program?
Uh I mean fun story I did I did previously with you the liberating structures thing and I really enjoyed it and then suddenly there was an email in my in my mailbox talking about dragons which is one animal that I love and one thing led to the other and and I end up enrolling in your in your program.
Yeah. Um you were uh um in my um uh liberating structures program, right? You it wasn't that you went to a uh liberating structures program with me.
Yes. I I you it's the one that you normally do which is I think two off days if I'm
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. The one that's in using Trello and all of that.
Yes. It was super interesting. So one thing led to the other. It was talking about leadership which is something that I'm going through for a long time now and I want I wanted or I want to evolve further. So it came in the right moment.
Yeah, I remember somehow those topics coming up then. So and uh where were you in um your personal or professional growth journey before starting the program?
So it is interesting because in the current company I am I end up joining as head off. Um and in my previous company I was already leading a team of agile coaches but with being an ad off uh other things are needed and going towards becoming a director. It was during that moment and and I needed to let go the mindset of being so operational and be more strategic and and be more of a leader to my team and to my peers and that part I was not there yet. So it came in that moment. It came in the right moment.
Nice. Nice. And I'm curious what did leadership or impact the words mean to you then and what do they mean to you now?
Yeah, I mean I I always went with those buzzwords of uh lead by example, uh lead from the back of the room, um those kind of things. Be a servant leader. So this was what what I was trying to be when I went through uh your your program. And interesting enough, it's also really relevant for my personal life, not only for my my professional life. I saw different parts of me that that they were invisible to me and and if I don't see certain things I can't help my team because for me those things don't exist and during the program I was able to start spotting other other areas and even learning from some of the examples you gave and I was like why didn't I thought about this so it broadened the way I see my team and especially one thing you said once to me it's hey your team is your peers not the people that report I was like, "Okay, yeah, that makes sense. That's I'm focus still focusing on the gel coaches. I need to focus also on the other directors." So, these are are are some examples of things that now I see and they were invisible to me before.
Wow. Nice. Nice to hear. And was there a specific moment that shifted how you see yourself or your ability to influence others?
Um I mean there there were multiple moments during the program. Yeah. Each session was kind of um I don't know. It's like it's like you're learning how to box. You go to the ring and each time you learn something different. You get new skills. Um there's probably one or two moments I I remember I remember the most. One of them was when you mentioned you can't ignore your dragons. So initially I start I start or I talk to my dragons. At the time I didn't saw them as dragons but but now I do. But I was talking to my dragons in the sense of calming them down or giving them information about justifications. So I was actually just deny them the right to feel whatever they feel. And and when I understood this, it made a huge difference because now I try to listen to them and especially try to understand them because whatever is is worrying them, whatever is in my mind that is blocking me, there's a reason for it. If I understand it, I will be able to deal with it. Deny it is just me ignoring it, I will never solve. It's it's if I don't understand the problem, I can't solve it. So that was one of the moments that really triggered in my mind is I'm doing it wrong and and and I need to be more vulnerable to myself because then it's also oh I'm vulnerable with my team but some but I I forgot to be vulnerable to myself and and that's kind of the main thing that came for me as an insight.
Yeah. Um uh in just one of our coaching sessions, I think in the last week, uh we even mentioned um uh uh having empathy for your dragons.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Being in their shoes. I don't know if dragons use shoes, but
they might.
Now, now I'm picturing it. I'm a very creative person in big shoes.
Yeah, maybe.
But in in fact, the dragons are you. So, as you said, it's having empathy for your deeper self.
Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
Yes. And um uh by the way, you may want to inform the audience when you took this program because I just mentioned that I saw you last week. Um however, that was not in the program. Um that's in our coaching sessions.
Yes. Yes. Exactly. I mean, after after we uh we are we went through the program, it was really cool. I mean, I I still remember many of the stories that the other um participants shared. So that was super cool. But I felt I needed a deeper dive into into certain topics and I remember when I was doing the program one day we were we were in a stayed with you to partner with someone and in five minutes I don't know you you I understood so many things. I was like okay if this is five minutes I want to do the full program just on 101 because it's really different and and it's it's real what we've been doing. I've seen I I feel I grow from the inside and some things I still don't don't don't grasp all of it because after the sessions I have with you I still need sometimes three four days and after sometimes a week my brain goes like oh yeah okay now this is making sense so it's so much stuff to to learn uh so this this session and and our session last session was last week true um those sessions are super super super relevant for me because it's really helping me Yeah.
And um back to the program uh how did the program challenge or stretch you emotionally, mentally or practically?
Cool. So um as I mentioned now I hear myself more and I try to understand why I feel certain things and I will allow myself also to feel things. It's okay if I'm mad with my CTPO or with my my other director of engineering or with somebody else in my team. Uh being mad doesn't mean I don't like them or they don't like me. It just means that there's a reason for for that to happen and allow to have those feelings allows me to grow. I I don't know. I I don't think it's mentally. I it grows from the inside. I mean then on the perspective of of the job, I lost fear to do certain things that now I know I can do but I doubt myself one year ago or or two that yeah what what will they think about this doesn't make sense. I'm just going to be making a fool out of myself. So I lost that fear. That doesn't mean that I just go crazy into things. I plan for it. I think I talk with my dragons about the things I'm doing and say, "Hey, what do you guys think? Is this anything for us to be concerned?" So, I go with confidence on things and then just like we said yesterday, what's the worst thing that can happen? I actually make a fool of myself and then I'll learn from there and I'll do better next time. So, but I have the courage to face those things. So that is something that in the past I would have to be one week preparing myself to be courageous enough and now if something happens in a meeting sometimes I need one minute or two just to gather my thoughts and unmute myself and say whatever I need to do to say and and to do without worrying and overthinking for everything. So that's that's a huge difference I see myself.
Amazing. And I'm uh curious uh if there was a particular framework or exercise uh that you still use today. For example, we had the values map, the dragon metaphor, enagram, um worthy goals, the ecoycle. Is there something that still uh you use in your everyday work?
Yeah, I mean the echosycle was the one that took me more time to understand. Mhm. Certain things felt quite easy but then in the eight stages some of them were so confusing to