Is Australia Becoming a Socialist Country? | Senator Alex Antic

Hi guys, welcome back to Two Worlds Clyde podcast. On today's episode, we have Senator Alex Antic. I hope you guys enjoy.

There we go.

>> Alex Antic, back for a third.

>> This is third, I reckon.

>> Third time.

>> Thanks for having me back.

>> And oh, mate. Well, thanks for coming back. I actually got uh you know, after the just into Price podcast when um you know, those 2,000 journalists that potentially might be paid by the Anthony government decided to have their uh have their show on me for um a good week straight. Call me every name under the sun. I thought that I might have been uh barred within political parties from people coming on my podcast, but here you are.

>> I just Yeah, I'm [laughter] Well, I I like the opportunity to, you know, give someone a sound bite out of context in 12 months time that gets used and weaponized against me. So, I'm a bit of a glutton for punishment, you know. That's fine. Fine with me.

>> Well, welcome to the new media as well, man. Out here taking care of the uh the mainstream media. Yeah, it's I mean that's the other point is I I mean actually I've said it before and you know I kind of scoff but it's I don't it's just I I don't know. I just think there's there's sort of increasingly limited point in trying to plead your case with some mainstream news outlet that are really not interested in what's going on. They're just, you know, pitching where the line is. I think a, you know, it's [sighs and gasps] what do they say? Who pays the piper pays the tune in in the mainstream media? They're they're hard organizations to keep running. They're they're they're expensive and so I think they're more reliant than ever on advertising revenue and I I think we see it. I made that actually I made that point the other week about um farmer you know I mean they they they control a lot of the media. This is a conspiracy theory now by the way. This is the first one. Tick bring this one up. Uh Senator Antic said that the world is controlled by faceless farmer executives since True. Um but anyway um so you know you find that you know honestly if you're picking up a a newspaper in this country now you're almost hearing directly from either government big farmer or um the real estate business really cuz they're they're the main advertisers. I probably missed a couple in there. Someone will correct me.

>> Yeah.

>> But that's anyway. So you know that's not you. So here we are.

>> And uh mate I actually talk about big farmer. I just had a homeopath on.

>> Right.

>> And um I've also had a whole bunch of mates uh with severe PTSD go and do psychedelics over in Mexico.

>> And um you know you do a bit of digging into this stuff and uh homo homopathy and uh psychedelics they can't be

>> patented.

>> Yeah.

>> So if the big pharmaceutical companies can't patent it

>> means they can't make money off it.

>> That's right.

>> And then they'll never put funding behind it for research.

>> Yep.

>> So the governments will never adopt it. And also as well

>> sometimes big farmer who I'm assuming this is how it happens. They'll potentially lobby to the government, write the legislation, and give it to parliament members to speak about in Parliament House.

>> No doubt.

>> And um yeah, but anyway,

>> somewhere in between, you know, an in between mate, this homeopath, it was uh it was bloody interesting, interesting to sit down and talk with her for hour and a half. Um uh yeah, a whole bunch of my mates now are turning away from this pharmaceutical world that are doing nothing but um

>> putting him deeper into the whole of PDSD for, you know, having all these um whatever. but they're on prescription pills and stuff like that. And I've had a couple mates now uh swear by going to Mexico and doing psychedelics, coming back and just being completely uh healed is the word, I guess.

>> Well, this is the stuff Rogan was talking to Trump about, wasn't he? Talking about that. Yeah. Um

>> yeah, I would love to uh if we can get a right leaning government in to mirror what that hap or what happened there and try and get it done in Australia.

>> I I just I mean I think you know co honestly was the turning point for me. I mean, I really thought I really honestly thought it prior to that that everything was okay, you know, well, someone's looking after us, you know, we're okay, everything. And that that wasn't just Farmer, that was across the board. All of our regulation, the whole system worked well. Uh and then we saw what actually happened. And um another conspiracy theory probably. Anyway, it's funny how they're all coming true. You know, it's the Overden window, right? You got to get in. You want to operate in politics, not in that world. You want to operate nice in the nice comfort zone in the middle where everything's accepted. But, but, you know, I mean, co did that. And so my eyes I mean I have to say my eyes are open to a lot of that stuff now too. I I'm very skeptical about um what I take what I would suggest others take you know in terms of family and whatever. And um I think we have to be you just have to take it with a pinch of salt.

>> You should see my kitchen mate. My wife has like um bought everything new uh you know this like non nonstick pans.

>> I know it's the same. We've done the same thing.

>> And um I was even talked to talking to the homeopath about um my injections

>> for um jabs when I was in the military. We used to get jabbed up with everything and anything under the sun.

>> And uh potentially doing a few things to uh rid my body of those medals that could still be flown around.

>> It's um

>> well I mean the service it's everywhere. It was same in the US. Service people get you know get guinea pigs.

>> Well yeah and and you know there's that whole story about golf war syndrome. what it might actually be, you know, um who you know, I don't don't profess to know, but um yeah, it's uh I just think we've all got to be more careful,

>> bit more cynical.

>> Yeah.

>> Hey, mate. Um it seems like you're one of the only ones in Parliament House that uh doesn't seem to be attacking One Nation from your your side of politics or not your side of politics, they are your side of politics, but from uh in particular, you know, your your party.

>> Is there a reason why why you're not towing the party line here?

>> Uh yeah. Well,

>> do you understand who the enemy is or [laughter]

>> Yeah, you know, I mean I it's it's probably as simple as two things for me. Um the first one is and I've said this, you know, and here we go. This will probably be the next one. But um I actually like a lot of them. I like a lot of the the One Nation MPs that are in there. I find them very genuine. Um and so that's the first thing. Uh they, you know, I mean Malcolm Roberts is one that's been under fire in the last week or two. And I and I've known Malcolm for five or six years now. And I

>> I like him a lot.

>> Yeah. And I and I just don't think look I a lot of the stuff that's been heaped on him has been taken out of context has been um you know edited I mean you know the stuff about chemtrails and stuff I mean I he you know I don't want to put words in his mouth at all but I what was reported was quite at odds with what I understood to be his view on on that and I think that's actually what he said in that interview as well. I can't remember. I just I just don't know. I don't know. But but anyway, there's a whole lot of stuff about that that I just don't I don't like. And you know, when it came to co we we sort of shared a lot of um a lot of views and we sort of fought in the trenches together a bit, Malcolm and I. And I I just I don't know. I just don't want to I don't know where all those attacks are coming from. They seem to be coming from everywhere. Uh but I just I want to be very clear that I don't put my name to that. I like him a lot. And I'll say it a hundred times. It doesn't bother me who likes it and who doesn't. Anybody. It doesn't matter. Um and in terms of the broader party, I just we we've got a we've got a country to save, right? It's not it's sort of has to transcend um partisan politics, um we can't do another 3 years like this and we have to fix it. There's a whole range of issues that are that are floating around and I just I think if I was Labor, I would love to see the infighting among the right. You know, we saw this this is how Mensy started the party. Not suggesting that's what needs to happen here, but Mensy started the party um after the Second World War when there was a splintering of all the the center right groups.

>> Yeah. How many? He he brought together 12.

>> Yeah. I can't remember. There was something like that. But he pulled he got them all together and he said, "We're just the country's going to fall to communism if we don't do this."

>> And I was reading up he won seven consecutive Yep.

>> elections.

>> Yep.

>> He got everyone to come together. He got them all to take a bit of a haircut on their expectations and he formed the Liberal Party.

>> Seven elections.

>> Yeah. It's historic.

>> Yeah. It was never been beaten. I think John Howard came very close one term I think um one or two anyway um so so that's the problem and I just don't I don't think that it is helpful to be fighting with one nation I think you know if I was I mean I've sort of used this analogy a couple of times but it's a bit like the cola wars in the 80s you know Coke was the main product Pepsi was snapping at their heels uh and you know sort of there's a bit of an analogy there the establishment versus the the upandcomer and you know Coke did actually I And there's a bit of a hole in this theory. I'll come to that in a minute. But Coke didn't um you know, they did they their response to that was to just sort of market themselves better in the long haul. They actually did bring in a new Coke which was a total flop in the mid 80s. But parking that for a minute. What they didn't do though is say, "Oh, you wouldn't like Pepsi. It's the colors are all wrong and you know the logo sucks and the cursive is awful and there's no point in doing that. We our only way forward is to get better on policy to get you know to put a better foot forward and to give a better product and look Angus is doing that. He he he genuinely is. It's a hard boat to turn around though for a whole range of reasons. Very hard to get a lot of

>> I can tell you why cuz Susan Lelay buried the party and now it's hard to come back.

>> Well, I just mean in terms of opposition leader generally it's hard to get enough media. It's hard you know and so you know you got you're sort of stuck in this you know kind of reflex loop of

>> anger should come on this podcast.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean I I think he should be talking to everyone. I mean, you know, yes, he should. He should suggest it.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Anyway, where we going with it?

>> I don't know. Anyway, the point is I the reasons why uh I don't think they're our enemy. That's why. But they're not my enemy.

>> Yeah. And I was explaining this to someone uh today, right? And I put it back into military terms because that's how I know how to do it cuz that's how I've lived my life. Is um

>> you know, when I was inside the wire, there were guys on my team that I would we would not get along with. We wouldn't talk to each other. uh we'd sometimes have blues with each other and uh it'd sometimes get violent,

>> but when we went outside the wire, we understood who the enemy was and we were probably willing to die for each other.

>> Yeah.

>> Um but the sole fact of we knew who the real enemy was like we can internally fight behind closed doors, but

>> you know, the right side of politics got to understand like it's the guys across the hallway that's the real enemy. And um if uh if we don't win in 2028,

>> I mean um the way this current government is doing it, expanding government itself by adding a whole bunch of jobs in there, more bureaucrats, the democracy is going through the roof.

>> The welfare system is getting out of control, like seriously out of control. And what is all that? That just equals control. All of it equals control. More and more control over the system.

>> Uh people on welfare don't want to bite the hand that feeds them. Um they'll probably threaten, you know, the population out there. saying, "Well, the new government coming through is going to rip away all the welfare, so they'll keep voting that way." So,

>> you know, there's uh there's a strategic uh plot here from the government of overarching control and um it's just what I'm trying to say here is it's just going to get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger the longer it goes on. So,

>> you know, the right side of politics has to pull their finger out and uh understand that this might be the last one if they don't win.

>> Yeah. and and government's getting bigger and bigger and of course it's getting harder to run a small business uh for a range of reasons a whole heap of them and I mean that's freedom isn't it like running your own business is is the ability to to be free we saw that during co I mean the capital sort of drained out of the you know the shop fronts on main streets and went into the big end of town um which is a lot like government a lot of those big businesses are like government you know they're almost run with the same bureaucracy so you know it's a it's a sort of the effect of that has been to corral everyone run into a you know sort of sense of compliance and um and I think it's getting worse and worse. We're getting more and more surveillance. We're getting um just had digital ID come through. Uh and I think it's you know this sort of government getting bigger is ultimately um a mechanism of control. You you've described a couple of them there by simply being on welfare. You you know you

>> you're more likely to vote for those who will give you that or provide it or promise it. Whereas really what we should be doing is trying to give people, you know, the the aspiration, you know, get out and do your own thing. Um, but then you're less controllable if you do that. So

>> that's our message. I mean, that that was Mensy's message. His his whole point was uh to stand for the forgotten people, you know. It wasn't it wasn't about big business and it wasn't about organized labor. It was about everyone else in between. And that used to be a very big population in Australia and it's getting smaller by the day [snorts]

>> sadly. So

>> yeah, we definitely need a smaller government, smaller democracy, smaller uh bureaucracy. I mean, the bureaucrats, those are the dudes that uh sit behind the politicians that never really leave their seat, but the politicians change out,

>> but those guys have been in their seats for 20 years, potentially getting double of what a politician would get. And um

>> yeah, I've heard uh from Barnaby Joyce that a lot of them are uh greenies.

>> Oh, at least. I mean, you know, you can see I always say if you want to know how how Cambra's run, you just come to an estimates week uh when the bureaucrats are rolling in and out of the building and it's like the bosses are in town, you know, that's literally what it is. It's like undercover boss. [laughter]

>> So, it's, it's, you know, I mean, that's my interpretation. I I perhaps I'm wrong, but um you know, it's and as the numbers get bigger, it gets easier to control what they you know, I mean, I I Yeah, I just think um it's it's a real problem. It's a real problem. And then you run into the problem of how do you fix it? you know, and of course anyone with a better grasp of economics than me would would probably um draw a line through this, but you know, if you're going to shrink the bureaucratic class, you got to have something for people to do. You got to have work for them to go. How do you do that while building industry and building industry while there's so many regulatory traps as well? You know, it's like the housing industry for example. Um we talk about how we don't have enough homes. There are variety of reasons for that, okay? But let's just put it on homes built. Um I mean, how hard is it to build at the moment? You know, you got the costs, okay? The costs have gone through the roof. That's one problem.

>> It's all the red tape, man.

>> And it's the red tape. So it's you got to get through local government, you got to get through environmental, you know, you know, whatever. It's just this range of issues.

>> Fivestar approval rating, crap like that,

>> bell ratings and you know, you name it. And um so it's very hard. It's very very hard and the margins are pretty thin. So um but that's just a metaphor for the bigger problem out there at the moment. The amount of regulation, the amount of red tape and green tape now. Um so it's a big job to fix. It's a big

>> Yeah, it's all become one massive um [sighs]

>> almost like a fireball, you know, but we keep feeding the fire with uh more debt printing, higher immigration,

>> more uh bureaucrats and uh more welfare, more people on the government hit. It's just like it just this beast just keeps growing.

>> And uh there's one side of politics which really enjoys that and that's the current side of politics which is governing in this country. But the other side of politics, most of us uh common sense folk, we can see this coming off from a mile away, which is like low-key socialism sort of communism type um type governance that's coming along. And you say that stuff now and you're a conspiracy theorist before we're about 20 minutes in.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh 14 14 minutes. Yeah. So, we keep going. But

>> no, mate. And then uh I see that Labour have their convention here this week

>> and um

>> the Chinese were angry because the Taiwanese were there

>> and then apparently the Chinese got the Taiwanese kicked out and they've went home and I'm thinking to myself, it's the Australian Labor Convention. What's foreign lobbying doing there?

>> Yeah. Well, actually, that's news to me. I didn't know. It will surprise you to learn that I haven't paid much attention to the Labor Conference.

>> I just did a real and I'm not going to repeat what I said in the real cuz it might get you in trouble. We'll watch it after. We'll have a look afterwards. [laughter] Yeah.

>> Yeah. I mean, well, look, you know, I mean, I Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's influence everywhere in CRA. As I think I said this uh here with you once before, I would just outright ban lobbying honestly of all sorts. um you know and well I mean you can probably make an amount argument for community groups but

>> even though I have a lobbying group I completely

>> yeah I mean you only need one to keep up with the Joneses right so um and then that's what they would all say but I just I've never understood why it is that uh you know the military or farmer or you know whatever it might be the banking you know whoever get in front of uh you know the old lady down the road here or you know I mean there's only so many hours in the day I mean they would say they're collecting a whole lot of group and saving time and efficiency by going as one group. But you know the reality of it is I don't I just that is the building now in CRA. It's bureaucrats, lobbyists and politicians and um you know, it's yeah, it's just that's why it's such a great place to be.

>> I made a uh joke. It wasn't a joke the other day. I actually thought it was semi-real, but um

>> they had the mid-season winter ball and everyone was there dressing up in their uh you know

>> [sighs]

>> uh

>> $4,000 tuxedos with their $6,000 dresses and $5,000 [clears throat] purses and stuff like that. And

>> uh while the rest of us are out here counting our dollars to try and ensure we can pay stuff like uh food and rent and electricity bills,

>> uh these guys are acting like uh the capital in the Hunger Games and all of us people out in the districts are supporting these guys having their uh gala balls and mid-season winter balls. And I was just like, how disconnected are these people?

>> Uh well, Camber's pretty disconnected. You know, I I we were talking about this before, but um it always strikes me, you know, I'm bit of a very amateur, very hapless runner. Um, but I I like to get a bit of exercise and so I do it in the mornings before we start sitting and I you know if you go around the outside of the building in the in the suburbs out and around um it's like there's no cost of living crisis in CRA you know there's just new homes you know expensive cars you know bars and you know clubs and all you know um and it's I mean why there's no industry there maybe there are but there's not there's not like a you know um a tech Silicon Valley there or something like that. No, it's all it's all government money and it's it's just further proof that the um the bureaucratic class are are living pretty well in many respects. Not all, but some at the higher end certainly. Uh and then the politicians, well, I mean, they they love, you know, well, the certainly the, you know, particularly the left of the building love the it's their I mean, I haven't been to one, not one, uh in seven years, six or seven years now. Um, which I I mean I just I I just don't know why you would want to go and spend more time with politicians and journalists. I mean I just what would you what it's just you know and I just I don't care. I mean I just probably get me in trouble as well but I don't care. But it's it it's like the >> you know the one building you should want to get out of quickly is that building. It's if you are comfortable in that building and you love it and I can assure you many of them do that's they feel the most relevant in that building then um

>> wow I that's not me I tell you I can't get out of there quickly enough.

>> Yeah. Yeah, they uh

>> well I was there for a rally not too long ago and um

>> it uh a bit of shiver up my spine knowing that there's some people in there that are driving this country into the direction they are.

>> It's just like it's just a strange work environment. You know it's a very strange work environment. you know, you walk, you know, just I I wish everybody could experience one day of it just to see what I mean. But, um, you know, walk through, get to a to a meeting. I try and have as few of them as I can. And, you know, someone's doing a Tik Tok video in the courtyard, you're like,

>> "All right, whatever." And

>> don't get me started on I have done a couple of myself. So, but I leave my vitriol at the door. But, um,

>> but you're not dancing.

>> I'm not dancing.

>> You're not m these dancing Tik Toks. I've that Charlotte Walker girl. I've had enough. I've had enough of, you know, 16 year olds doing Tik Toks on Parliament lawn and just uh taking a mockery of the system. You know what I mean?

>> It's got to be it's got to transcend that. But look, you know, so that's one aspect of it, but also just,

>> you know, it's a it's just a it's a alternate universe actually. So yeah, the the the Midwinter ball for I mean, you know, for those who don't know, and it probably hopefully would be everybody, it's the ball every year. It used to be that the idea was that you would get all the journalists and all the politicians. Everyone would, you know, drop arms and meet and have a, you know, Chattam House rules and nothing would get leaked and it would all be just fun and everyone have a great time. Nice little cozy club. Um, and uh, over the years there have been leaks and so people just don't go, you know, sort of. And uh, it's really just um, yeah, I mean I [laughter] just wow. Wow. I I won't be going to one.

>> [laughter]

>> I'm trying to be nice. I'm trying to be as so that when I leave here I go, I shouldn't have said that. As I do all the time, but anyway.

>> Yeah. Don't [snorts] There's um not too many people listen to this podcast. [laughter]

>> I'm well aware of that. It's just you and I, isn't it?

>> Yeah.

>> But mate, I see you're running for the presidency in South Australia, the Liberal Party.

>> I am. I am. So, yeah. Well, the membership Yeah. The membership of the the party has a has a you know, a structure. Um the me uh president is kind of the chairman. So, it's a very, you know, it's a very um uh it's it's a really internal looking sort of thing. Um

>> who's who's running it now?

>> Uh so, at the moment, uh Senator Leah Blle is is is um is the current he's been president for 2 years,

>> mate. Uh don't mean to jump in. I ran into one of my mates had coffee the other day and uh he is not happy with her.

>> Yeah. an old school mate that I ran with and um just saying that you know she was supposed to be this conservative matter but it looks like she's sort of tilted more towards the liberals with

>> and Houston or Rustin or whatever that chick's name is who cares but um yeah it's uh yeah mate he was not happy

>> okay was not happy

>> yeah well um

>> sorry to put you on it cuz I know she's a colleague but

>> yeah yeah yeah know well I mean it's well she's look I mean um she's been two years in that job and Um, and look, I think, you know, I mean, things are going well. It's it's a it's been a tough hall. You know, it's the party's kind of had all the beating from all angles, but um, you know, she's done a good job. It's it's just that I think the continuity now requires someone who's and I I should say, by the way, that the usual custom is not to, you know, we don't talk about things in the public when you're running for needs to be a closed house. But I'll just, this is I'll put this in very general terms, but uh, I just want to see the uh, you know, the party continue to modernize really. It's it's sort of there are so I mean if there are so many things that are still being done that are just not um that and it's because there were so many things to fix uh that are that are just not fit for purpose anymore and um you know the I mean we spend so much time internally on our own AGMs and our voting systems things that are going to bore people to death so I won't bother with them but there's a lot to be done that work's got to continue and I think I I think it'll be helpful to have someone um take that role by the way it's the labor of love there's not it's not a paid role um it's the sort of role that usually parliamentarians don't want because you know often it's a stepping stone to get to parliament rather than a um [snorts] it's taken that way anyway rather than something you do afterwards. But I I just I think in order to be continue to be competitive we've got to um straighten up and modernize a bit and there's a bit of work to be done there. So I think I can do that.

>> You need to get back what made the party so good in the first place.

>> Yeah. And who's that you know the dude that formed 12

>> 12 small parties and brought it together. You need to stand for the people again.

>> That's right. That's right. and and we have done that over the last 5 years. It's been well reported that uh I've been unashamedly out trying to get people to join up and get involved. It's hard work at the moment because people are like well

>> um you know what are you what are you offering? What are you doing? But the vision has been to give the party back to the membership and it's done that you know for a long period of time I think that was the you know the lip service version but in actual fact you'd find that the parliamentarians were pulling the strings. Now people would say well I keep reading that's you and it the reality is it's never been more in control by members. the members now are back to I think increasingly to where it used to be that there are you know sort of groups of members that are running their own show around the state. Uh and we hope we will continue to sort of pump in decent candidates. We we had a heap at the last uh federal election. Um we just couldn't get them elected. People like um Arena Zagladov and um and Dan Wild who was excellent out in Spence, you know, some really sort of genuine kind of true boo liberals. But, you know, you got to get them elected as well. So,

>> that's the idea. We want members in so that we can get the right people, true liberals, and uh and try and keep um you know, keep those because, you know, I mean, I need I need help. I need help in

>> CRA,

>> you know, there's there good ones. Obviously, lots of good liberals, but you know, we need we need as many good people as we can get.

>> Yeah. And um it's always really, you know, it's with like Labor, right? Like yeah, I understand they have their fractions within Labor and you know a lot of them probably

>> dislike each other and there's further left people and there's there's people that might be conservative in there but they're just posing as that like

>> maybe someone like Peter Malinowski cuz he just wants power but you know they have their fractions within the Labor and left but it it always seems they always vote together they're always on the same page

>> and they're always pretty strict on

>> with the party line but

>> I guess that's the different side of right side or the difference the right side or politics, right? Like we sort of believe in freedom of speech. So if you can cross the floor

>> and you believe you should, then the party should allow you to do that.

>> Do you think though sometimes that can actually be like

>> used against you because Labor are all on the same page at one time and sometimes you can

>> No doubt. No doubt. So it comes back to the kind of the basis of left and right. You know, the left of politics, Labor and the Greens believe in collectivism. You know, it's a sort of the old union style um approach where all in one in one in all in uh and of course there are different views. They have a lot of bitter fights behind the scenes. They do keep it together though because um their rules are different that you're not allowed to cross the floor in the Labour party. Well, I assume the Greens as well. Uh so you just suck it up. So if the party decides this, you go with it. Now there's a lot of utility in that. Um, you know, they call it party discipline or whatever. Um, but in our side, you know, you can you can cross the floor and you can you know, you can say I don't agree with that and I'm going to do my own thing and the sky doesn't fall in which I have to say I'm very grateful for. I mean I I would literally have been I mean I would probably be 25 times I would have been removed from the Labour party by now if for a variety of reasons but uh if I had you know had that hadn't had that latitude which I voting record.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I've just, you know, on multiple occasions, but I just, you know, there's got to be some, you know, and others do it as well, but there's got to be some degree of um and, you know, freedom in in terms of that if we're going to continue to live by that because, you know, I don't resolve from any of it. Hate crimes, hate groups, the social media ban for under 16s. Uh, I crossed the floor on all of those. Um, we didn't support the digital ID bill, which I was very happy about. Um but I would have crossed the floor on that and we've got the AIO bill coming up again which I just I can't support. So

>> um

>> so but yeah anyway it's it's and it is a mechanical weakness of the right um of politics generally the fact that we um and you know we do it in the liberal party we have all of our the lab party don't have the same structure of membership they have blocks, you know, they have a union block and a this block so the union people get together with the other union people and they work out who their person is and that's how you go to parliament but in the Liberal party you got to fight it out you got to win every vote individually now there are factional divides obviously but you know The right of the Liberal Party in particular makes up its own mind. You know, like you want to try and tell some of these people who to vote for. Watch what happens. They'll be like, "Well, why don't you get stuffed like I'm voting for whoever I want. I don't like that person because of this or I like that person because of that."

>> Uh which, you know, is a difficult way to do business because you never you never got the certainty and the, you know, and there's always a fight. But anyway, that's the the media love to take advantage of that and uh there's not much we can do about it.

>> Yeah. Yeah, the media are fantastic at uh causing divide and division and um Yep.

>> But uh yeah, it's just interesting to hear someone from yourself like cuz everyone sees parliament, they see the members, they see left and right, they see one nation, the Greens, they're like, "Oh, they must all all be friends and collectively together against one another." It's like when you get inside the parties is just as bad as outside the

>> I mean there'd be no doubt we we know of the sort of fights that go on inside the Labor and the Greens. Labor and the Greens and um you know they just seem to be able to keep it in because there's really no mechanism to you know we have

>> the left own the media.

>> Yeah. And they don't focus on it either. That's right. Yeah.

>> You know if it was a right leaning uh media out there and they wanted to dig a little deeper they could be tearing

>> That's right.

>> Apart. I mean jeez how many times have people

>> written to me after I told them all to get stuffed um a few months ago for me trying to you know rag on hasty or something like that. And it's like they're trying to pivot veteran against veteran. I'm like I don't know what you're doing here. You know all these bags of [ __ ] out there.

>> Well, we had one we had one this week. I mean, you know, the I literally the genesis. It's actually fascinating to watch because I, you know, I got a um an inquiry from a journalist which I assume started from someone on our side of the fence. You know, I don't know who it was, but whoever it was seeded this story to the journalist who, you know, has just taken it and run with it. And it's I mean, I think everything in it was wrong. Yeah, like every single assertion was wrong.

>> Uh well, there was one recent this week about um or or you know, if it wasn't wrong, they were, you know, completely overcooked. There was one about this story that I'm somehow trying to um merge the Liberal Party in South Australia to One Nation.

>> Can you not do because wouldn't the legislation say that you can't do that?

>> Well, I I would go as far as to say that I mean that that is just that has been made up. Like that is

>> just outright not right.

>> Fugazi.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so it like you need a super majority on our state. I mean, I'm going to bore people with this. How about this? This, but anyway, it it you need you need you need more numbers than you'd be able to get in terms of a vote. No one would vote for that. Um, even strong right-leaning liberals, I think, would have a problem with that. The second thing you need is the fact that the money is controlled by a trust. So, and they have trustees for that trust. Anyone who knows anything about trust law will know that you that's a separate issue. So you you know this sort of concept that you could just take everything the Liberal Party has and owns all of its members all of its thing and just shift it off to one nation is just I mean it's just it's you know it's just wrong. So so it can't be done. Uh you know then it also went into you know squables between me and others which don't exist. Um uh I'm trying to think what the rest of it was now. Anyway, it was all just over but what ended up happening was with that first seed article others would pick it up, you know. So, but by by midday we picked so I mean I just thought I'd have a look cuz I was just fascinated by how it all works. There was something like 30 media hits. I was getting all these inquiries to come on the show and I was the same response was the same. This is not my story. Whoever's doing this is trying to [snorts] destabilize Angus and um you know I just oh you know or or create division or whatever the whatever the MO was. Uh Angus a conservative or

>> Angus is a conservative. Yeah. Yeah. So um

>> I sort of know where this is coming from then if it's if within your

>> post.

>> Well yeah I mean I don't know where it's coming from and I don't really care and as I said to um number of the journalists like I just don't care about this story like I don't care I don't you know because the temptation is to go and this is the thing so for any journalists that are listening I'm going to give away my secrets now. Um the problem with being approached with stories, not necessarily that one, but like that one is it, you know, it's never being pitched as a fair story, right? You you know, people I think probably still assume that, you know, it's being done with a kind of a justice, a balance sort of thing, but it's not. It's they're looking for whatever. They're looking for a fight or an angle or so. Why would you justify the story by trying to pitch your case like, "Oh, I'm sorry. You know, don't please don't write something nasty. I mean, you know, this is the reality." And then of course it just you know you just get the same story out the other end of so I just don't dignify it with a dignified response. My my you know view is I'm just going to tell them what I think of the story. So I try to you know my my lines are often well what is the point of responding to this this is nothing but you know D and see if they print it. Some do some don't. And um but just you know I think if you if you pump oxygen into some of this nonsense then you know you're really part of the problem. Like I just think pull your aerial out, stop watching it. Like I I don't I don't watch I don't listen just you know sorry to anyone who's listening to this. I don't listen to morning radio. I don't listen why would I listen to that? I don't listen to afternoon radio. I don't turn on the nightly news. I barely read the newspapers. Um most of my news comes from uh Twitter uh podcasts and certain substacks that I read that I think are interesting.

>> Um and the rest of it just

>> Yeah. The rest of it's just just faf. Like it's just all nonsense. And you know, if I want to know what's going on on a reality TV show, which I don't, then I'll turn on I'll turn on the nightly news.

>> I mean, the media used to stand for something where they uh used to be independent from the government and hold the government to account, but it's like

>> now they're funded by the government.

>> Yeah.

>> They used to stand for something and now they're just and that's why and I don't want to, you know, be uh be pumping up my own tires here, but that's why independent podcasts like myself are huge. Like, you know, Carl Stephanovic's massive. There's other ones out there that are just big now, massive, you know,

>> walk down the street and everyone always says good day to me like like they know who I am. I say like who the hell is this? It's like

>> uh because the independent media

>> has turned its back on the Australian government. They've taken sorry they turned it back on the Australian people by taking the government's money and they don't criticize them.

>> Well, and I mean I think also it's just become one speed, you know. I think people have they're looking for something different. Um and this is of course the problem. This is why we're seeing increased clamping down on misinformation and disinformation. It was never about protecting people.

>> I'm assuming they're coming for this platform eventually.

>> Well, they will. And so the next phase of this for people who are watching are listening and watching uh is going to be this digital duty of care. So um you might recall you will but others might recall that the um misinformation bill failed. In fact, I don't think it ended up getting put on the floor to the Senate because it knew they knew it was going to fail. Such was the campaign. and shows people power does work sometimes. Um and that the idea of that was that that um there would be the ability I think for the safety commissioner to uh say well that's you know that's misinformation that's that's right that's wrong we'll tell you what's wrong

>> they're the ones that get to dictate what information is miss or disinformation so government then and there was a whole it was very very it was bad it was terrible law years ago I think last year 18 months or something time now anyway so of course that didn't but the but the problem it still exists this podcast still exists K's podcast still exist. So the issue is really more about wretching back control of the the media cycle, the news cycle so that you can get your message out but it goes through you know the right the the media channels. Um so the next phase of this is going to be uh this digital duty of care. So

What they're going to try and do, the government, is legislate. It hasn't, the legislation, the bill hasn't been brought yet, but it will. Um, is bring legislation such that you don't, they don't deal with misinformation after the event. They put in a series of guidelines for tech companies before. So, this is what you are required to do to curate your platform. So that will apply to Spotify. It'll potentially, uh, YouTube, Twitter, D. Uh, and you have to make sure you vet all of these things. So you make sure the right information is getting through. Um, and it's the same thing. It's just before and after. So it'll be, it's like, it's like misinformation 2.0, for use a terrible phrase. Um, so they're going to try that now.

They're going to keep coming for independent media because, >> um, you know, the threat. Well, and it's, and, and that's right, and it's true freedom. You know, the internet started in the mid '90s. It was pitched as being, you know, this great triumph for freedom and for, you know, they talked about countries overseas in Central America and Eastern Europe. And then it started working at home, you know, and people started getting the message in the West that perhaps sometimes the governments weren't looking after them, uh, and they didn't like that. So, um, you know, it's all kind of blown up, you know, in people's face a little bit. And so, they've got to try and control the narrative. So, we've got to resist all of that. Um, and that includes getting smarter than, um, thinking that keeping kids off their. We all agree with that. I don't want my kids on their phones all the time, and I don't want them seeing dangerous and stupid stuff on their phones. But the way to do that is not to make an outright ban on it. What, what that does is it protects the traditional media from future customers. That's, that's really what it's about.

>> Yeah. I just seen them as, uh, attacking at the highest level rather than putting it back to, uh, states and council levels, consultation with parents, schools, teachers, like, let's get together as a community and be like, "Okay, how can we keep our kids off? Is it, >> is it, you know, are we going to do X, Y, and Zed?" You don't just go to the top guys and say, "Yep, uh, put a digital ID in, make everyone scan their face, and if they're not that old, they're off."

>> Yeah. And so, that's the other limit to. I shouldn't say it's just about getting the the med. The the second thing as we well know is, >> um, the first round hasn't worked. We've seen that. What a surprise. The second round of attempts will not work. And then the, the eventually the final stage will be once the system's properly matured, is, well, in order to use the internet now, you have to prove who you are, you know? So, and that'll be pitched on the basis that there are damaging online anonymous trolls that are upsetting people and whatever. But, you know, I mean, I get tacked. I mean, almost every attack on Twitter is from, you know, someone with a series of flags and syringes and a blue teardrop and a fake picture and a fake name. Like, so what? Like, I don't care.

>> I don't even read the comments anymore, mate.

>> I love them. Give me, I don't care. Like,

>> Oh, you've actually, uh, you've, um, suspended the comments on yours.

>> I have. I have. We've been through that. Let's go through that again. That, that's, that's to protect me from lawsuits, not.

>> Well, you are a law.

>> There was so much love. There was so much love I couldn't take it.

>> Man. I, yeah. Know I, uh, they always, I'm, dude, what was one, uh, the other day? And the only reason I seen it is cuz it was a re-share on X and the re-share on X was me and, uh, Mel, my previous guest. She's a homeopathy. Yep. And, uh, I loved it. Great episode.

>> But we were talking about, you know, why the government doesn't want something like homeopathy to, uh, succeed.

>> Y >> Because it will potentially, and she can't say this, but I can, potentially cure someone and get them better. But the pharmaceutical world, you know, the government, we don't want that, right? Cuz,

>> Let's talk about control and sick people and, uh, keep them in their little, um, their welfare benefit type stuff. But there was someone that re-shared it. They tagged all the Greens people in and said, "Uh, oh, check this veteran out who's trying to get other veterans off pharmaceutical prescription that's keeping them alive." I'm like, I'm telling you right now, I know some veterans that have actually committed suicide because they've been on too many pharmaceutical drugs, which have put them down the hole. And I know a whole bunch of veterans that have went out and done psychedelic treatments and come back and said, "Hey, I've got, I've been gifted my life back."

>> Yep.

>> But like that side of politics is just, uh, it's insane, man.

>> It's really strange. It's really strange. You know, if you go back 20 years, the Greens and Labor, I mean, they just, they're just pitching to a different market now. They're [clears throat] pitching to a completely different market. It used to be about environmentalism and the worker, and of course, you know, that's all pivoted now. And, you know, I, I always, I, I just find it bizarre that, um, the, you know, the used, the, the Greens who used to be so anti-corporate are now cheering for big farmer. Like you can't.

>> Well, and not only that, it's, uh, [clears throat]

>> I went through the other day for donations, right? Like, who takes money? And everyone gets upset at the Gina and Pauline connection. It was, uh, a couple days ago that Anthony Abenezy sat down with a Chinese billionaire's son who apparently owes hundreds of millions of dollars of tax in this, uh, country and he got a million dollar donation from that Chinese billionaire. And then you get Mike Cannon Brooks, Twiggy Forest, Simon Holmes court, and then the Greens come out there as this savior in night that's, uh, free from 100 millionaire or billionaire dollar money. And they c, they take dollars. I think his name's Troop or something. He's a mathematician who is a professional gambler.

>> Who has donated millions of dollars to the Greens Party over the last couple years. The dude's a professional gam. They're taking gambling money.

>> Yeah. I don't know. I don't know where they're getting the money from, but I know you've looked at it.

>> It's $3.6 million over the last couple years from this guy.

>> Okay.

>> And it's like you're taking gambling money and you stand against the gambling industry. It's.

>> I'm sure, I'm sure the media will be all over that. I'm sure they'll pick that up soon. [laughter]

>> I'm the media that does that. It's, uh, but yeah, mate, everyone, um, yeah, [clears throat] but only billionaires exist on the right side of politics.

>> Just remember that's the rule, Alex.

>> Yeah, I know. The focus on on the likes of, um, you know, Mrs. Reinhardt and, uh, and Clive Palmer is just, it's just out of step. Like, and, you know, I mean, I, I look, people might take issue with this, but I, I've met them both and I find them to be,

>> excellent Australians and they're not, you know, I mean, it's not, I don't have any reason to say that. I think, you know, that, um, I, I think genuinely generally, um, you know, it's, it's probably, look, actually, probably most people are, but, um, I don't, it's, it's unfair. It's really unfair. They're trying to do the right thing.

>> Gina is about to, not that I've ever met her, but I just read an article about it. She's,

>> she's literally putting up a purse for any Australian swimmer that wins gold, silver, or bronze to get a whole bunch of extra money. And then she funds the Royal Flying Doctor Service. Lots of, she just put $200 million into, uh, getting veterans off the street.

>> Um, massive supporter of Benor of veterans.

>> And a huge supporter of veterans in general. U, big supporter of Ben, big supporter of

>> of, um, uh, non-cont sports, I've heard. So swimmers and all this type of stuff.

>> Well, certainly involved with the swimming team and, uh,

>> I mean, the Royal Flying Doctor Service would be under if it wasn't for her.

>> Yeah. And I mean, you know, like she doesn't have to do that. You know, it's not, uh, you know, and I mean, Clive during, um, uh, to, you know, once again, I'm not here to pump anyone's tires, but, you know, let's be to make the point that, you know, it's not all what you see. Um, you know, tried to help a lot during co. He brought in, um, you know, 100 million doses of hydroxychloroquin or something and they, they took that. So, you know, I just think it's, yeah. Anyway, it's, it's not, it's not fair. I went to actually the first time I ever seen you and I was a, uh, I didn't have social media back then, but I went to the Tucker Carlson and Clive.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Yeah. And, uh, you were standing in line and,

>> um, yeah, I said, uh, it's funny that we're sitting here together now. My wife's like, "Oh, who's that guy that's getting photos with people?" And I'm thinking, that's a senator. I just don't know which one.

>> But I was a Tucker fan, you know, and still am. I love his work and

>> how he can just freestyle that 45 minutes that he did.

>> He's got a very good style. He really does. Yeah. And then he took down the Australian media a couple days later and made him all look like full. But yeah, I went there and that's the first time I seen there. But, um,

>> yeah, mate. Uh, jeez, that was years ago now.

>> That was years ago.

>> But yeah, Clive Palmer run cuz he tried, that's, he tried to promote that for his, um, party, didn't he?

>> Uh, yeah. Well, I think it was, it wasn't pitched as a UAP thing, but it had, yeah. I mean, it had the colors of United Australia party and, and, uh, so, yeah, I mean, it was a bit, it was a bit like that, but, yeah, I mean, he, you know, he's interested in that sort of stuff, too. And, um, it was good. It's a very interesting tour. I, I was there that day at the, uh, the lunch where the, when the media stuff happened. Were you there?

>> I was there. Yeah. It was, it was [laughter]

>> He's, um, [snorts]

>> He has a knack, doesn't he? Just, uh, setting people up. I mean, it's an art.

>> It's, yeah,

>> it's an absolute art of, um, him just making people feel.

>> Really smart people as well, feel that small.

>> Yeah, he's very smart actually. I think he, he, he, he doesn't, you know, he sort of plays himself down a bit, but he's, he's a, he's sharp, you know, and

>> well, you have to be, man. You've done that sort of stuff for years and years.

>> Yeah, that's right. No, it's, uh, it was, yeah. Very interesting to hear him live. It's, uh, yeah, it was a funny night.

>> What do you think with, um, what do you, I mean, I think a lot of people are potentially downplaying the move of how important and big it's going to be for, um, media over the next couple years, but the separation with K Novik and

>> Yeah. I, I mean, I, I think people are underestimating how, how much of a, um, turning point that will be.

>> Yep. I agree. I think, uh, it's been interesting to watch it all play out, hasn't it been? The pile on is next level, you know, with the media. I mean, they, you know, it just feels like they know this is a bigger mo moment than they have. And of course, it's the Strazan effect, isn't it? The more you pile on, the more people go, what's this all about? It would have probably increased his audience dramatically the last sort of two or three months of it. I mean, it's an interesting story hearing someone make that transition. And of course, he's got a lot of flack from one side, you know, and now it's all right, now you, you want to speak your mind, but I mean, you know, we got to be a bit fair. I mean, it's everyone had a lot of people had jobs where they, where they weren't able to say what they thought during co or whatever. Um, so, but yeah, look, I, it is interesting that that market is, um, is sort of a bit bare in Australia. I've often said, you know, one of the issues the American democracy has had is a more, a more mature social media scene for the right, um, which we're now getting. I mean, you know, obviously your podcast gets a huge audience as well. Um, but there are others that are that are sort of emerging, which is great. Uh, and I think, you know, I think the mainstream media are in panic mode. I think, I think they are, and they probably should be.

>> Yeah. Especially if you go draw back a year ago, uh, maybe May, April last year, I really started talking up and then I did my run and I came back and really ramped up after that. Yep.

>> And, um, mate, [clears throat] at the start, it was, it was, it was me and Chalky talking about this stuff and there guy been people before that, um, that had been big in co, but me and Chalky were talking up and

>> I think he's at 700,000 followers. I'm over 400,000 just just on Instagram alone.

>> Yeah.

>> And huge.

>> Um,

>> we, Australia's never had that before.

>> No. Because every single time someone did put their head head above the parapit on the right side of politics, that's right.

>> You know, all your, um, Abby Chatfield types would try and demonize them and destroy them. But like, there's just, and now since me starting about a year ago,

>> there's like a hundred now of me out there.

>> All doing the same thing. And I love it. I like, and there's people getting bigger than me. I'm like, that's awesome.

>> I love it.

>> I absolutely love it. And I think the,

>> the fightbacks on mainstream media know it, but also

>> the government knows it.

>> Yeah. And I think so. I think so. And it sort of, when you think about it, it was kind of inevitable, wasn't it? If you, I mean, because all this stuff now is available. I mean, you,

>> you know, um, can can get to a lot of people with, you know, not a lot of equipment. And, um, there's a lot of talented people out there, you know, who are who are willing to have a say. Uh, and the other side to this is, of course, trying to shut it down by curating what people can say through free speech. You know, we, I think the stat was that was brought up by, um, the Australian Christian Freedom Index Project, which is a very good document by the way. People should look that up and have a look. It, they did a whole lot of stuff on, uh, on, you know, on the faith-based side of it, but also, um, they did a whole section on the incursions, the legislative incursions on free speech over the last 20 years. And I think there's something like 20 or 25 pieces of legislation that have literally shrunk the ability to speak your mind. So you're talking about things like hate crimes bills, a lot of them, different ones. Um, you know, um, you know, the various discrimination bills and what they've done to free speech. So that's the other angle to this is is to try and make it very difficult for people to speak about issues that are really important without fear of getting sanctioned. You know, we've seen it out of the US and the not the UK. Sorry, I should say the US, the UK, um, and the European Union with their with their kind of, um, version. I can't forget what it's called now, their, uh, EU e safety, um, version, which is, you know, starting to really pull the brakes on. So, yeah, certainly the left and the, um, you know, the establishment do not want people like you out talking to people like me and people hearing it. That's the reality.

>> They also don't want another, uh, party rising up on the right side of politics. I spoke about this this morning.

>> Um, someone did a, uh, like count of how many news articles that had been written about Pauline Hansen.

>> Yeah. Um, and then they compared it to like a heightened version of Anthony Abenez when he does a big announcement.

>> And over the last couple weeks, Pauline has had something like 45% more articles written about her than Anthony had in a heightened time.

>> Yeah.

>> And it's like, uh,

>> yeah, you understand, uh, the machine is really a machine.

>> And the establishment was really an establishment when they, uh, just piling on one person. I mean, it happened to me just into

>> the last podcast.

>> Yeah. I came out and, uh, did one of my 700-word rants.

>> Mhm.

>> And she agreed with the last bit of it that, uh, the media didn't portray it as that.

>> No. No. No. And that's the, this is the, is why politicians don't like doing podcasts because,

>> you know, there's so, you're off script. There's so much ability to just, you know, put your foot in it or to get taken out of context. You know, I mean, I've had, I had one, um, you know,

>> no doubt they'll take this out of.

>> Who cares? I mean, sure. Of course they will. And then it'll be the same response. Get stuffed. Man, I just sell more t-shirts on. [laughter]

>> I'm glad to help you do that. That's terrific. Thank you for dragging me to. No, look, I just think, you know, the whole point of it is to try and be, um, yeah, I just, you know, like, because, okay, so there's the sort of, there's the politician authentic, which is, you know, to sit down in front of a camera and say, "Hi, do you know about the tax system? I'm going to represent it here with these three inanimate objects and here's, and we're going to try and, we're going to really speak down to you like you're pretty stupid." Yeah, that's not authentic. That's just insulting.

>> Um, and then there's just actually talking like you're a human. That comes with risks. Uh, and, you know, I don't, I just think poking fun at things sometimes is good. I did this the other day. I got up in the, um, it's a bit like, you know, you know how Woody Harrelson, um, he, he went on Joe Rogan and he said, "I knew I, I knew I was over the target when I went on, he went on Saturday Night Live and he went off script." Do you remember this?

>> Called out the pharmaceutical.

>> He said, "I've come up." And he, he literally dropped the script and he said, "Oh, I've come up with this great concept for a movie." And then he started calling out big farmer right in the middle of co.

>> And, uh, he compared him to drug cartels.

>> Yeah. Something like, forget the, but then the next day, just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, like the bots dropped in at him and the stories started coming.

>> Um, yeah, I was just fascinated by that because about three or four weeks ago, I, I got up in parliament because we, the bird flu, right? You know, and of course, you know, in political circles, you're meant to go, yes, this is a very serious problem, we need to, you know, right, okay. So, I don't want chicken farmers, I want the best for them. I don't want problems. I don't want whatever. But I, I just sort of off the cuff, which is always dangerous in parliament as well, started talking about these two sick birds. You know, they found two sick birds and they're kind of unwell and it's, oh, you know, they're at home watching TV or something. And now because the papers were telling us that as a result of bird flu that I'm, I have to go and get my flu shot,

>> you know, and I was like, what? What do you mean? Like, what? So, I'm getting a, I'm getting a human flu shot to stop me from bird flu, which you're telling me later further down the article, which I probably won't get to, is almost never contagious to humans. So, what, what do you mean? Like, it's just, and of course, the next day, we had people getting up in Parliament like, this guy's, this is the usual tin foil hat, just suggesting that far, like all the things I'd never suggested, but I was like, whoa. Like, you know, that's hit a nerve that one, you know, what do you mean? So, you know, it's, it's true. The media just when, and I, I assume that's the case with, um, with One Nation. They've hit a nerve, you know, and, uh, you know, I think, you know, when you're over the target when you start getting that pushback.

>> Oh, yeah. I hit a nerve a, uh, couple months ago when I, when I merely only suggested that, uh, you know, the importation of what's happening in the moment with some immigrants and that, and it's like, once you, uh, say something like that, I don't, obviously, I don't want to say too much to, so you're going to get in trouble for this, but mate, I mean, talk about that, talk about demographic replacement, and oh, they come after you.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, what they'll do to me is they'll say, you didn't interject then and slap him down. It's like, I'm really going to do that at your house, you know. Can you shut up, please? [laughter] Like, stop it. That's it. I'm out. I'm gone. You know.

>> Yeah.

>> So, I mean, look, people, I, I just, you know, I don't know. I just, it, it worries me that government's got as much ability to tell us what we can say and what we can't. Nobody want, like, you know, this, the whole thing about free speech, that it gets weaponized in a sense. They say, "Oh, were you a free speech guy? It doesn't allow comments." And I'm like, "Yeah, because I don't want to get sued because of something someone else says. Okay, I want to keep the house. I quite like living where I live."

>> Um, but free speech has its limits, right? Can't come out and say, you know, things that are going to hurt people, things that are going to do this, but those incursions just keep going. You now you can't say anything that's going to offend someone. And you can't run a democracy if you can't offend someone. You just can't do it. It's cuz someone's always going to be offended by something.

>> Um, so that's got to go. And I, and I think we should be, this is my view, we should be committing to do that. I think we should be committing to a series of rollbacks on some of these incursions.

>> Would you see like a, um, free speech absolutist bill go through?

>> Well, I mean, the thing, well, it depends what that looked like. I mean, you'd have to have a look at what it looked like, but, um, you know, in the US famously, they have the protection of the First Amendment. Now, it's not complete. You know, they have similar, they have some obviously some things for good reason. You can't say, you can't, you know, encourage violence and all the rest of it. Got it.

>> You can't defame people. Got it. Right. You can't say things that aren't true to hurt them. Got it. No problem.

>> Um, but you certainly can, you certainly cannot continue to stop people from in good faith trying to discuss about matters of public policy like, and that's what they will and are trying to do. Yeah. There'll be people watching this who will be going, I can tell you, they'll be going through it like, you know, you know, with a pen going, I think he's, I think he, I think he's gone over the line here.

>> Oh, yeah. Every single podcast happens. So, I mean,

>> the last, mate, the last five podcasts I've done,

>> even even military friends, they've written stories about him. Like, it just, every podcast now.

>> And, um, it's funny to watch someone go through it the first time as well. Like, I have a military mate on, he has 5,000 followers.

>> And, uh, they write an article about him. He's like, "Bro, they write, you write an article about us." Yeah. Every, every time, mate. Like, well, and they're like, they'll go through and read it. And, um, it's like a shock to the system the first time. But I mean, they, they all watch this, they all listen to it. They'll probably get the AI transcript of

>> what I say and then they'll put that into AI platform and say, where can we get him on this sort of saves all their job. That's 100% what they would do.

>> Yeah. Right.

>> Saves him doing an hour and a half or even juggling flaming chainsaws. But why do we do it? I don't know. Because it's got to be done. I mean, it's just that the, you know, people, I mean, the amount of people that are frustrated out there at the moment, I mean, I, every day I talk to someone who's who's as worried as I am about the future. I've never, you know, you saw that, I probably the other day, someone was, I don't know where it was, something I read where the, the Google trends this, I haven't fact-checked this by the way. If we had an internet guy like Rogan, we could do it.

>> We'll have that, uh, once in a new place.

>> Well, we could get him to do this or her.

>> But is that the Google trends of people wanting to leave Australia?

>> No, that's 100% right.

>> Is it? Is it right? Yeah.

>> It's all-time highs. Well, anecdotally, I have never heard people say it more privately. Um, that's that's not okay. We got to fix that.

>> Yeah. So, just everyone listening out there, there's a Google trend at the moment that's been, uh, fact-checked by a whole bunch of people that I know that, uh, yeah, there's a record amount of people googling how to leave Australia right now.

>> Yeah. Yep. Yep. So, it's bad. And there are a lot of people, you know, with money too, who are who are going to drain capital out of the country as well. I know so many people that are wealthy that are setting stuff up over in the either, um,

>> businesses out of New Zealand to avoid capital gains, or they're going to, uh, Dubai.

>> There's a bit of that. Yeah.

>> A lot of people going to Dubai.

>> Y.

>> Even in the middle of a, uh, you know, America verse.

>> Yeah.

>> They're still going there.

>> But yeah,

>> less hazardous, mate.

>> Me and you are doing a, uh, a speaking night together on Monday night.

>> Yeah.

>> Yes. This episode's being released on Sunday. So if you're in the Millicent area,

>> Yeah. Um, find the details. I'll put the link to the speaking night in the description so you can, um, see where it is there. And I'm assuming you can might be able to rock up on the night.

>> Tickets are what, $20 or something?

>> I don't know. I don't know. Who knows? I'm not sure. Not across all that, but me neither. But, uh, yeah, it seems like there's a good turnout there. What are we going to talk about?

>> I don't know.

>> Me neither.

>> What should we talk about? [laughter]

>> That's a real, what an ad that is. I don't know. It was stuff. Just mate, give me the mic and

>> and, uh, yeah, I'll show you how this show works for 45 minutes.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It would be like, talk about, uh, danger zone, taking questions. I don't care. I don't, doesn't bother me at all.

>> Yeah. Uh, I do not recall.

>> Yeah.

>> That's, that's going to be my response. [laughter] But, uh, no, I, I did a speaking night at the Liberal Party, uh, uh, uh,

>> yeah, rule and regional council 12 months ago. Yeah.

>> And I was at, I think it was at 45,000 followers. I was, uh, just finished my run.

>> And Susan Lelay was in charge.

>> And, um, I upset some moderates and, um, Ann and Houston Rustin, forget her name, doesn't matter.

>> Uh, she stormed out.

>> Yeah.

>> And, uh, hopefully no one's going to be storming out this time.

>> But, uh, a lot of the stuff that I said back then,

>> it's, uh, it's came to fruition right now.

>> Over the window. Well, I mean, I mean, back then I was nervous to talk about immigration. I was nervous to talk about, you know, the machete youth crime crisis or the debt printing.

>> And, uh, I'm saying some stuff and people were sort of looking at me like I'm, like I'm a bit crazy. But now, you know, we're talking about much more extreme stuff. Not even extreme. We're just talking about much more normal stuff.

>> Yeah. It's, well, you know, this is the problem in, uh, uh, in politics is being outside that Overdton window. You know, no one ever remembers that you were on it early. They just sort of, you know, take the cues that there's something wrong with you. And, um, it's a hazardous space. You know, you want to be nicely in that, you know, in that sort of, I mean, I, I, you know, I had a bit of this with 12 months, I think it was 18 months ago, I, I brought a bill up in parliament to, um, return the definition of man and woman back to the sex discrimination act. And, um,

>> you know, it's, it was, I mean, it, like it was controversial at the time. Uh, you know, and I, you know, Matt Canavan sponsored it actually from the Nats, that was good.

>> I like him.

>> He's great.

>> He's a good man.

>> He's a great man. He's a, he's a genuine, genuine Aussie and he's very, very authentic.

>> I really hope he does get back in cuz, uh, you know, something like the rise of One Nation, especially in those,

>> threatens guys like him. He's, we, he can't, he, he cannot not be back in parliament. He's too,

>> um, he's a, he's a, he's too valuable.

>> He's too valuable. He's excellent. So, has he come on by the way?

>> He has. Yeah, mate. 4 days after Bondi.

>> Yeah.

>> He just scheduled to be down here for like a net zero thing they were doing.

>> Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

>> Um, anyway, excellent. But anyway, he, he co-sponsored it. But, you know, there wasn't a lot of love for that bill.

>> Um, and, uh, you know, that's, I mean, you know, you're just a year too early, aren't you? And, uh, now all of a sudden, everyone's clambering for it and, you know, yeah, championing this, that, and the other. So, [snorts]

>> anyway, that's politics. I don't, I just, you just got to do what's right. Actually, shout out to Matt Cavanine. I, um, I watched Canavan, sorry. Uh, I read an article when the pylon was coming for me after the Justin Price podcast.

>> He came out and spoke to someone from the Sydney Morning Herald and said that I'm a very good Australian.

>> Backed up my service.

>> And said a whole bunch of great words about me. But, you know what the headline was?

>> Um, I was gonna say, but I won't. No. Yeah. Go on.

>> It's a, and, and, and turned out to be a complete false lie. Matt, Matt Canavan supports podcaster who wants race-based deportations. [laughter]

>> Yeah, I just, I read the article, right?

>> And, uh, my daughter's sick as on a Friday night.

>> Um, went, came down with the flu or something. So we rushed her in hospital.

>> And, uh, I'm just, I'm just looking at my phone. I'm like, "Oh, yep."

>> Waiting in the doctor's surgery.

>> Oh, that's a, that's a. And then I had to read it again. I'm like, "Is that, is that the headline?"

>> Yeah. Yeah, I know. Well, the, yeah. And so, normally what happens is the journalist says, "I didn't, I don't, I don't write the headlines. I don't write the bylines or whatever they are." And, you know, I had one of those the other day when, you know, the headline was just so out of step with what I'd said. And, you know, it was all about, um, again, once it was about, I think it was about, um, you know, us tackling One Nation and I, you know, my my comments were something like, "Well, I just don't think it's helpful. I just don't know why we would be doing that. We should be, you know, improving and getting better." And the, you know, sort of like drops bombshell on leader. And, you know, I mean, I just went, come on, like, just anyway, that's the way it is. And so, um, you just, I don't know, that's why I just limit my interaction with them now. I just don't, I don't, you know, I think you can, you know, you can reach more people, um, a different way. And look, you know, media's become so entrenched now. I mean, if you go to one newspaper, you're talking to one crowd. If you go to another, you're talking to another. I mean, that's the shame of it is there isn't really a newspaper, I don't think, or an media outlet that kind of gets everyone. Maybe some of the TV stations do, I don't know. But, um, we've all kind of retreated to our corners now a bit. And, um, it's the way it is.

>> Hey, uh, Cory Bernardi, I watched a,

>> reel that he put out with, um,

>> what was it?

>> Kids getting, um, puberty blockers.

>> Yeah.

>> Fantastic, uh, fantastic minute, uh, speech that he did. Yeah.

>> And I thought to myself, man, I like some, uh, bit of normality coming back into politics again.

>> Yeah. Well, we had a, a bill, I had a bill, um, up in the last parliament which was the childhood gender transition prohibition bill, which was once again, talk about outside the, uh, the wire. No one wanted to know about it. Then it, it amended. We eventually got it on the books. We couldn't get it to a vote.

>> Um, and I think actually Matt was in on that. I think Ralph Babbot and Malcolm Roberts.

>> Uh,

>> Ralph's a cool guy.

>> He's a good guy. I hate, um, and, you know, liberal senator praises UAP senator, you know, [laughter] tick, whatever. Uh, anyway, um, and, uh, and then I tried to bring it back so we could at least have it in the system for this, this 48th parliament and they just blocked it, you know, like, it's just, you wouldn't even, wouldn't even put it on the books so it could be, um, potentially debated. So, yeah, I saw that the other day. Good on him. That's, uh, that's important. That's really important.

>> Yeah. I just re-shared it to my, um, to my story then.

>> Y.

>> Um,

>> well, Cory's also a good guy. Much, much maligned and, um,

>> I like him.

>> Liberal senator backs One Nation.

>> Don't care. Also don't care. Um, no, uh, he, he is, he is a, he is a more, um, genuine Aussie than, um, than people realize. And, uh, you know, he, he's, uh, yeah, he's, it's, I'm, you know, it's a shame we lost him from the Liberal party, but, um, you know, he's got an important voice.

>> And you don't get back into politics at his age without not caring about what's happening in Australia.

>> Fire in the belly. Yeah, he does.

>> He could just sit out and,

>> Yep.

>> hang out.

>> He could, he could,

>> um, and go to the gym and,

>> still look like a,

>> drink beers.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Encourage people to take,

>> light, uh, low carb beers.

>> Low carb, not light. Come on.

>> Sorry, not [laughter] light. Give me some credit,

>> man. I'm a, yeah, I, uh, I seem to drink a bit of, I mean, I don't drink it that much these days, but, uh, light beer.

>> Cuz, uh, yeah, I mean, I just can't keep up with my some, like on Anzac Day, I, um, I drank light beers all my, all, all day cuz I was just with,

>> I'm just with absolute weapons. [laughter] Can't keep up, mate.

>> Can't keep up.

>> Imperial pint after Imperial Pint.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm here ordering light beers all day. But nah, man. It's an interesting landscape at the moment. I mean, um,

>> on a personal level, not that I really, uh, enjoy how the Liberal Party has a whole bunch of moderates in it, which are just, you know, sort of lefties, but I do think that, you know, and I could, I can sort of see what's happening, right? I can sort of see that the Liberals and One Nation, they don't really want to form anything yet because they want to see who can get higher in the polls up until about a year out of the election. And that would give them or whoever's higher more swing and more power. So if Angus can get them back to 25% and One Nation gets down to 25%, okay, so now we're even. Let's sort of work together.

>> But right now, One Nation's got the hand over them to say, well, you know, we're much bigger. They're not, but they're much bigger in the polls.

>> Y.

>> Which sort of give me a bit of power. So, but mate, what I'm trying to say is, uh, yeah, if you BS don't, uh, sort something out a year out, we'll probably be staring down the barrel of another Labor government. And that's not going to be good for anyone.

>> Yeah. Well, that, that just can't happen. So, and that's been my view. All long gets misconstrued again. But I mean, I just, we cannot, one, the one thing that cannot happen is another term for this government. So, I look, I don't, I don't know. I'm not privy to any of those things. I don't think there is any. I don't. No, I don't. But I'd be surprised if there was any discussion along those lines yet. There normally wouldn't be. I mean, normally that would be a very late stage.

>> We're still 2 years away, 18 months, two years away.

>> Um, Angus' view, I think, is that there isn't going to be any. I think, I mean, I don't want to miss, I haven't pressure tested that, but I, there is no, you know, coalition of any sort or whatever. Preference deals are a different story. They, they, they are a bit more complicated and so they would rightly be much later. But look, I, I, yeah, I just, we can't let this government have another term. We can't.

>> Um, on Angus Taylor, what's, uh, I've never met him. What's he like?

>> Uh, he's great. He, he's a genuinely good guy and he, and he's, and he's a, a true conservative. He means what he says.

>> Um, he is struggling at the moment, um, with the things that opposition leaders struggle with a year into a cycle or whatever. We are a bit more that is, it's just hard to get your message out. It's, it's really hard. And so that's extremely normal.

>> I did see that, um, when the media was coming after just into Price and me a bit.

>> Um, they said,

>> there were a few reporters that pressed him quite hard about her coming on my podcast and his response was, no, we have to talk to all Australians.

>> Sam's views might be different to what the conservative liberals are.

>> Um, but if we don't listen to them, then, you know,

>> that's, that's entirely the right response. Yeah, I totally endorse that. Yeah, I, I sat there and I was like, you know what, [clears throat]

>> that's quite refreshing to hear because

>> quite, you know, a long time before that, you were getting something like Susan Lelay where she would probably often side with the left side of politics. I mean,

>> when Justin Price came out and said some, uh, comments referring to what a pollster said about the Indian community, um, you know, there was no really backup from Susan Lay, she just sort of sacked her. But, um, it was good to see their bit of backbone from the Liberal leadership to go, well, no, we need to speak to all Australians here. She didn't agree with what Sam said, but it was a 700 form question, blah, blah, blah, but

>> it was actually good. I, I sort of sat there and I'm like, well, you know, at least, uh,

>> no, at least I've got confidence there.

>> Yep. He, he is a very good guy. He's very, um, well-meaning and he's a very good Australian and, uh, he'd be a very good PM, you know. I'm, I really mean that he would. And, um, so I, I mean, but the problem is once again, is cutting through all that noise. I mean, it is a hostile environment out there and you can imagine what it would be like for him every day having to get up and face the press pack. Um, you know, you have to be a unique type of person to to get, and he does give it back to them. Um, and he should, but you also got to get your message out. So, which is very hard. And, um, so I, look, I, I just think, uh, that that is the sort of response I'd expect out of Angus. You know, he, he would, and I, I agree with, I mean, I, you know, it's just always struck me as being hilarious that, you know, somehow if you go and talk to someone or, you know, all the old classic used to be, he was in a photograph with someone who once, you know, spoke ill of his mother, you know, like, you know, you're standing there with, I didn't know that. Oh, did he? Oh, well, I'm really very, very sorry. You know, you got to apologize and go through the whole humiliation ritual.

>> Um, but, uh, but, you know, like, so it never made sense to me that, you know, if you come here and talk to someone, you immediately just adopt all of their views, you know, like, um, and that's what another way the left have effectively shut down the other voice is this kind of concept of deplatforming, you know, so then they make it hard for people to come on shows like this, you know, imagine the cynicism that would arise if you said to a labor politician that, you know, immediately going on the ABC, you just, you know, you just adopt everything the ABC stands for and, you know, your, your platform forming them and whatever. Never goes that way though. Of course, a bit like you were saying earlier. Uh, so we've just, I mean, you just got to drown it out. I just honestly, and, and I just think that's easier said than done when you're not then the next day fronting up and the journalists are all asking you the same question. It is hard. But that's the way it is. You know, life is hard and we've just got to keep batting it away.

>> The good thing is is what you said before that, uh, you know, even Angus and Pauline, they're really starting to chip back at the media now.

>> Yeah. You know, like no one probably even last year, everyone was still a little bit,

>> careful with what they said to the. Now, it's like they're chipping back a lot and back a lot more. And I think that's, um,

>> there's also a fall back now with, you know, like social media commentators and stuff like that.

>> Y.

>> Um, you know, I can say the extravagant stuff. Some people just chip back now, but it's good. Like, it's,

>> you, [snorts] sort of see a politician chip back. Ah,

>> yeah.

>> They're human. Yeah.

>> That's cool. I like that.

>> Agreed. Barnaby Barnaby Joyce dog.

>> Oh man, that was, uh, you know what that was? That was classic city meets country.

>> Yeah, it was a working dog. You know, like, do you understand what the working dogs?

>> Yeah, I know. I know. I know. I was, yeah, you're right. And, um, no, like, I, I just, it, it is all about that. If there's another vehicle and another voice, then you don't have to put up with it as much. But I don't think we should put up with it at all. I mean, some of the stuff is just, [sighs] infuriating actually. But, um, anyway, that's, uh, that's the media landscape, right?

>> Yeah. And, uh, mate, with that, I know it's, uh, Friday evening now.

>> So you need to go home to your family and I need to, um, cook some dinner for my family. So mate, thanks for coming on again and, uh,

>> yeah, we'll see you soon.

>> Looking forward to Monday night.

>> Monday night. Yeah, which when this is up will be tomorrow night.

>> That's right. Thanks, man.

>> See you soon. See you.

>> Thanks for listening to Two Worlds Collide podcast. If you guys enjoyed the episode or you just enjoy what I do in general, then you can head to my website, link is in the description, where you can buy some merch or jump on my Patreon program. What's your thoughts?