Transcription
If whoever created the universe, if there's such an entity that did, why make a universe where we didn't show up for 13 13.8 billion years. billion years.
Right. Not only that, a man should not don the clothes of a woman, nor the woman a woman the clothes of a man, lest it be an abomination unto the Lord thy God. So, you're you're using rational, really secular thought to say that's messed up. I'm not going to do that. But this is Chuck. Yes. We haven't talked about God in a while. Oh, there's a reason for [laughter] that.
Yeah, just that the history of civilization, anytime people had gods, gods that they revered, they're in high places. The heavens have been associated Right. with deity Correct. >> from the beginning. Right. Okay? And so my field, astrophysics, directly confronts many people's questions Mhm. regarding our existence. >> Right. >> for that reason. Mommy, where's heaven? Oh, it's up there. No, it's not because I have a telescope. >> [laughter] >> It's not up there, Mommy. Right. So, you have that that intersection Right. >> of people's curiosity and what actually happens in modern astrophysics. >> Okay. And if you are religious or or prone to be religious, Right. >> it's Which I think everyone is. But perhaps Yeah, we're human. It's a human thing. It's a human thing. It's a human thing. >> given how prevalent it has been >> Exactly. Throughout our entire existence. >> Exactly. >> And some of the earliest recordings of communication involve exactly that. >> Correct. The burial rituals of Neanderthal, for example. >> Right. Right. You could only have done that if you thought there was an afterlife or a supernatural force.
There's an urge, I think, to see that which is unknown in the universe. You hear of it. Big unknowns like dark matter and dark energy. Mhm. Two hugely mysterious pieces of modern astrophysics that are unresolved. Right. >> And they're not little, they're big. Okay. >> You add them together, it's 95, 96% of what is driving this universe, and we have no clue what it is. >> That's insane. No clue. That makes me feel like we're the mistake here. >> [laughter] >> I'm just saying. Cuz we're not the majority. We're not the majority. >> Yeah, when 97% of the stuff that's there is not you, you probably don't belong there. >> [laughter] >> Damn, Chuck. >> Yeah, I'm just saying. Anyhow, so we don't we can measure them. It's not a mystery that it's there. >> That it's there. All right. We can measure their existence. We don't know what it is. >> What it is. All right. And there's precedent for that. We knew about the spectra of stars the soon as we were able to bring a spectroscope to the telescope. So, this interesting information here. We don't understand it, But we >> know it must be important. It's different for this star than that star. Oh, these two stars match. Let's make a catalog of all the spectra. Later, we would learn quantum physics, and we could then interpret what was going on. And thus was the birth of our modern understanding of stellar evolution. The first steps are the measurements. So, it's not so weird that we have measurements and don't know what it is. >> Right. >> So, there's not only that, there are other questions that are just simply yet to be answered as opposed to mysteries. So, one of them is what was around before the Big Bang. >> That's a Big Bang. There might have been a multiverse, but if even if there is a multiverse, What was around before the multiverse? Okay. And we don't yet know how Earth went from organic molecules to self-replicating life. >> Right. >> All right. Earth figured it out. We haven't figured that out yet. >> Right. Granted, Earth took a couple hundred million years. All right. >> Yeah. And we're trying to do it in the lab overnight, but still that's a mystery. >> And who knows how many failures over that couple hundred million years Earth had. >> Good point. You know? >> Cuz they they they ain't left. They they ain't there. They didn't survive.
So, if you lean religious, you will see these mysteries as where God might reside. Yes. God is operating there. Right. And there's a long tradition of this, actually, but philosophers got wise to it, and they came up with a term for it. We've mentioned it on a couple of other of our explainers, God of the gaps. >> God of the gaps. >> of the gaps. >> very powerful concept. >> It's got the alliteration, so it kind of stuck with people. So, it's the urge to declare that if there's something you don't understand about the universe, that God must be there with the with the with the the puppet strings or with the forcing of what's going on. Right. >> And >> My favorite God of the gaps moment, can I tell you that? It was Ptolemy. Okay. >> Claudius Ptolemy, AD 150. In the in the margin of his greatest work, the Almagest, Right. >> okay? Actually just Almagest, >> Right. which is Arabic for math. >> [laughter] >> Hi, I wrote A BOOK CALLED MATH. GUESS what's in it? Almagest is is the greatest. It's it's an Arabic translation of the greatest. >> That's so cool. >> And he masterfully codified the epicycles that he was sure planets traced in the sky Really? >> with Earth in the middle of the known universe. There's no other way to account for planets going backwards and forwards. Retrograde. We have words for it even. Right. Goes backwards, retrograde. They they think the planet's actually doing that. >> That's why your washing machine is not working. Cuz Mercury's in retrograde. Your phone stopped working, it's not gremlins, it's Mercury in retrograde. [laughter] I don't think Mercury cares about inanimate objects. I think it only cares about people. It speaks so highly of you. How could you say that? >> [laughter] >> So, he does this, but it's still kind of a mystery. Why would that all that happen? It's just doing it. I can account for it with my little epicycles. And he wrote in his margins, as I trace the windings to and fro of the heavenly bodies, I no longer touch Earth with my feet. I stand in the presence of Zeus himself. Take my fill of ambrosia. Damn, he was just wrong on many accounts. [laughter] He didn't even get the right God. HE WENT WITH ZEUS? >> [laughter] >> HE'S GREEK. He He's Greek, okay? >> Yeah, no, I get it. Give the man his religion. Don't take away his religion. Right. >> And so that for me was the crowning moment of God of the gaps. Right. >> So, there are people who to this day Which by the way, I mean, before you go further, that's another iteration of how we experience God. He understood something was going on, but it inspired awe within him. And whenever somebody feels that sense of awe, they often want to attribute that to God. >> Correct. Because it's beyond their their grasp. So, this is it's it's been going on forever. Right. >> Okay. My caution there is if that's how you define God, where science has yet to tread, Right. then God to you is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance. Oh, that's sad. That's I mean, that's sad. If you define God that way. >> it's an if statement. >> Right. >> So, round two. >> Round two. Ding ding ding. Okay. Round two. All right. There are people who they're not falling for the God of the gaps. Right. >> God is everything. Yeah. Gaps and no gaps. >> Right. >> Okay? So, that God, that's a different God. Okay. That's not just a God who's lurks Right. >> where sci- Cuz science is an ever-moving frontier, right? One day we'll figure out dark matter, dark energy, and and what happens to your God if that's what it was. All right? Okay. So, there are people who say God is everything. That resembles greatly Spinoza's God. He suggested >> Yeah. that the very order of the universe, the operations of nature, everything we see, feel, and experience is God. >> Okay. And I I Now, I know a lot of people who feel that. >> Exactly. Exactly. So, that would be Spinoza's God. And when Einstein was asked, does he believe in God? He said, if there's a God I believe in at all, it's I'm paraphrasing, it's Spinoza's God, okay? Right. >> That's a different God from a God that is paying attention to your behavior. So, as you come from that posture to gods that are more [clears throat] engaged with you and your existence. >> Personally involved. >> Personally involved. That the these would be gods you pray to. Okay. >> You wouldn't pray to Spinoza's God. I just want to make it clear to people that when they say God, >> Right. >> God has very different meanings to different people. >> There's a tiered even throughout history >> of God. >> Even throughout history. Correct. >> Great. Okay. >> Okay. So far, this is great. Let's be honest. Saying God did it is what people say when they don't have an answer. Humans have done this forever. Thunder, disease, the movement of planets, all blamed on gods until science explained them. Right now, we know about 95% of the universe is dark matter and dark energy. We don't fully understand it yet, but we can measure it. That's the difference. Science admits what it doesn't know and works toward evidence. Religion fills the gap with belief. Christianity is built on ideas that don't match reality. The Bible describes a solid dome in the sky holding back water in Genesis 1:6-7. That reflects how ancient people thought the world worked, not how it actually works. History keeps repeating this pattern. Every time we learn more, the space for God gets smaller. So, the real question is simple. If your belief depends on what we don't know yet, what happens when we figure it out? So a common God manifesting today in people's beliefs is a God that cares about them and their health, wealth, and well-being and their prayers and and the like. Okay. So there is a point of view that says this universe is so amazing there had to be a God. An intelligence behind it. The intelligent design people. So in that case, they're not looking at a rock and saying there's intelligence behind it. They're looking at something more complicated than they can understand >> Right. and saying there's the intelligence. >> Right. All right. They look at the operations of a cell. Yes. >> All that going on in something that's microscopic. They're just amazed by it. They're in awe In awe. of it and so surely God is at work. Right. >> around here. Now so one of them that went around for a while and I found it very unconvincing. It was the laws of physics are exactly the way they need to be for us to be alive. Really? Okay. Okay. If they were slightly different then we wouldn't be here. Like if the charge on the electron or the value of the gravitational constant or the speed of light, you know, things like that and they all configure to make matter and energy come together such that we can be alive in that universe. Right. >> Okay. >> there's some people that even on a macro level they're like we live in a Goldilocks zone of these planets and the other planets are dead as far as we're concerned. >> As far as we know. As far as we know. So with all of these parameters in just the right way and just the right place, people who are uh lean religious refer to it as the fine-tuning argument. >> Interesting. Okay. Everything's fine-tuned to produce life. >> Right. Human life. Now so my >> God of precision that have that has placed in this perfect synchronicity that all the gears mesh and everything works so that we get life. >> And we pop out. >> pop out. >> Exactly. I don't argue the fact that we have constants of nature >> Mhm. that if they were slightly different we wouldn't be here. I I don't have an argument against that. I mean that's But my argument however is if whoever created the universe, if there's such an entity that did why make a universe where we didn't show up for 13 13.8 billion years. billion years. Right. Not only that, Earth was not born until the universe was already 8 9 billion years old. Right. And then life begins single-celled organisms. Is this the God of that life? Okay. But that that was 3.8 billion years ago. Humans in our current form last, you know, 100,000 years or so. Go to million. Million years which is a drop in the bucket relative to the to the 4 billion billion years. Right. Millions but to billions? Okay. It seems like if you really want to make a universe that favored us we would have shown up much earlier. >> Much earlier. I'm just thinking. Right. Just if you >> But now the the the argument against that would be that there is no because God exists outside of time and space >> Mhm. that what we see is 13.8 billion years is is not measured by God. >> Yeah. However, my issue there is not how long that is but how long that is relative to us. That's all. >> That could be short to God >> Right. >> but that means we're even shorter. Okay. >> [laughter] >> So it does not look it does not look like the universe cared much about us for most of its existence. >> Right. >> That's that's my only point there. >> you. Okay. >> So the multiverse each universe would have slightly different laws of physics. Quantum physics tells us this. Right. >> Okay. And would you exist in a universe where life COULD NOT EXIST? >> [laughter] >> I'M WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER. YEAH. WELL, I'M GOING TO go with no. >> No, you're going to go with no. Okay. >> no. Okay. So we are alive in a universe among the infinitude created in a multiverse. We're alive in a universe for which life can happen as we have come to know it, life as we know it. Right. So we should not be surprised that we're having this conversation in that universe and not any of the other infinity universes. And this multiverse wasn't invented in response to a religious argument. It comes out of the math. >> Comes out of quantum math. >> When when you it comes out of quantum physics, you're trying to shotgun marry it to to general relativity in the early universe and you see what comes out of it and a multiverse comes out of it. What makes that less appealing if you're going to do it put God in the equation >> Mhm. is generally those Gods have certain uh powers ascribed to them. Well, they have to. Okay. Yeah. All right. They're all powerful, all knowing, all good. All right. These are common terms invoked. All I can say is that when I look at the universe an asteroid that strikes rendering, you know, you know, 66 million years ago 75% of the species of life on Earth went extinct. That's cuz they were atheists. >> [laughter] >> Those atheist dinosaurs. Exactly. So what am I saying? I'm just saying the universe doesn't look like anyone is in charge of anything. The randomness of the universe. >> of the universe. 100 years ago so random. >> 100 years ago before our telescopes were good enough to reveal asteroid strikes and stellar collisions and galactic collisions and all this, it was the beauty and the majesty of this ordered universe. >> Right. I have books that talk about the ordered universe. And then you look closer and it it does not look like what people wanted it to be to match their expectations of the God they're describing that it's handywork to be. So it starts out as looking up like look at this beautiful ordered universe and then you look closer and you're like they SHOOTING AT US. THAT'S RIGHT. IT'S A SHOOTING GALLERY. >> [laughter] >> I'VE BEEN TRYING TO KILL US. Earth plows through several hundred tons of meteors a day in the leftovers of the solar system. >> Yes. Okay. Plus on Earth, if I drop you butt naked in a random spot on Earth you're probably going to die. >> to die within a half hour. Drop you in the ocean. >> You're going to die. >> Cuz 2/3 of Earth and 3/4 is is ocean. Shark is going to take a bite out of you. You dead. Okay. If I drop you in in the Arctic, there's not even land there. You're just you're just hors d'oeuvres for >> polar bears. polar bears. Yeah. So we say Earth is a haven for life after you built cities and heat and air conditioning and clothing and this and we say oh look how beautiful Earth is. Right. >> So we did a lot of work to make Earth comfortable for us. >> Right. And so I remain agnostic on this. I'm happy to listen to and look at information, evidence, data that might support an almighty, all powerful being but the the distinction is if you want to say there's a being responsible for the universe, is that the same being who tells you how to pray, who to pray to what day to pray on, what food to eat, what food to not eat and who to sleep with. >> And why why can't it get it right? The fact that there's no uniformity in it is is kind of a problem. Well, it's not a problem for the people who are certain that their God is the one true God. Right? >> the problem. That is the problem. Because everybody is sure that their God is the one. Not everybody but many people who are deeply religious in their tradition are Listen, I used to be one of them. I'm not I mean I don't I don't I have a great deal of compassion for people who are devout and because and I got I know you do. I've never been it's never been a thing. I just want to openly have a conversation. First of all, let me just say this and I'm going to say this in your defense in front of everybody. This is a conversation that you and I have had offline. People don't think that you have compassion for those who believe. They think that you're hostile to it and what they don't know is that nothing could be further from the truth. And I've asked you point blank, is it possible that you could ever believe in God and your answer was yes and then you gave me the criteria FOR SO IT WASN'T ALL THAT DEEP. RIGHT. RIGHT. IT REALLY WASN'T [laughter] GUESS WHAT? AND ALL I COULD SAY WAS OH. NO, I GAVE one example. Like okay, there's an elevation above which all plane crashes have ended in 100% dead people. Right. >> Okay. The distance that the plane falls out of the sky. Okay. There's an elevation above which no one has ever survived. Okay. Imagine a plane where it crashes above that level and only the Christians survive and everybody else is dead. That That things that make you go hmm. Only the Muslims survive. Only that, you know, the Zoroastrians survive. >> Exactly. So I could easily come up with a a set of that you want to test it several times. Once would not be sufficient as in any scientific experiment. But I can come up with it's not hard to do that. And so I so I only point is an emergent sense of spirituality in people because religions have been losing their adherents, their Yeah, people are not following religion as much. >> But they'll still say that they're spiritual. And these are people who are feel that there's some force out there >> Something greater than themselves. greater than greater than themselves and but it doesn't come with all the all of the rules and regulations and and baggage if dare I call it that that comes with so many religions. So I I'm simply saying that the universe, if you want to say there's a god involved, ask yourself is it because there's something you don't yet know how to explain. Right. Right. Let's talk about this intelligent design idea because it sounds convincing until you actually think it through. People look at something complex like a cell and jump straight to there must be a designer. That's not evidence. That's just reacting to complexity. The fine-tuning argument falls apart the same way. Yes, the constants of physics allow life. But that doesn't mean they were designed for us. The universe existed for over 13 billion years and humans show up at the very end. If this was made for us, why did it take almost the entire history of the universe just to get here? And look at reality. Over 99% of the universe is completely hostile to life. Most of Earth is uninhabitable without technology. Asteroid impacts wiped out about 75% of species in the past. That doesn't look like careful design. That looks random and indifferent. Then you have the multiverse idea which comes from physics, not religion. If there are many universes with different conditions, of course we end up in one where life is possible. You wouldn't be here to question it otherwise. And here's the real problem for Christianity. If there's one true god, why are there thousands of religions all claiming the same thing? No consistent message, no clear evidence, just competing beliefs. Like the person writhing on the floor frothing at the mouth. So, you go to your priest in a town where churches in walking distance. >> And they come and they just enough time to get the holy water, perform the exorcism Right. >> person comes out of it. >> And that's called a coincidence cuz that's when the seizure was over. >> Uh cuz the seizure, that's correct. >> Right. >> So, that's an example of something that we didn't have an explanation for. >> Right. >> A natural explanation. We had a supernatural explanation. You were inhabited by the devil, right? So, every example of that throughout history where science has given attention to that phenomenon, >> Mhm. it has yielded to scientific discovery. That's all I'm saying. Well, that's true. >> Including the spread of disease, >> Right. >> everything, germs. >> argue with that statement. I'm just I'm just saying. >> Right. Right. And so, today, if there's something that amazes you or is mysterious to you, I just take my cue from the history of this exercise and say, I'm going to stick with the science. Right. Because I'm not compelled to throw my hands up and say, This is god. >> God must be in charge. Be it Spinoza's god >> Right. >> or or or Pocahontas's god or anybody's god. Well, I'll tell you, for me, what I don't appreciate is sports stars who thank god when they win, don't blame god when they lose. >> I tweeted that. Did you? >> And people got angry with me. Oh, get out. >> Yeah. I was just joking. >> And by the way, just to offer some street cred here, >> Okay. at home I I own multiple shelves this wide of religious books books publications. Everything that Jehovah's Witnesses ever left at my door. There's a shelf of that. I have uh there's the Quran multiple times. >> a Quran. >> Uh and I have I have the >> Bible. >> I have the Torah. I don't have the Torah. >> Yeah, you don't have the Torah. Yeah, okay. It's mostly the Old Testament. >> Old Old Testament. The biblical law. >> so I it's there and I have large uh King James Bibles that from the the 18th century. >> Bibles. >> Yeah, yeah. So, so I think about this often and I think about what passages have affected people in civilization and the like. In most conversations I get into with religious people, fact remains I own more religious books than they than they own science books. >> And you probably know more about their religion than they do. >> I wouldn't I wouldn't assert that, but I I'm just saying I know Then you don't know. I own I I own more religious books than they own science books. Mhm. That's true in essentially every case. >> And so, so I'm not coming from nowhere. I think about it and I care about it. >> What most people know about their religion, and I don't care if you come at me or not, okay? What most people know about their religion is what somebody told them. That's true. >> That's what most people know about their religion. >> Right. >> out filtered. It's it's filtered. And so, that's why I say you probably know more because you went straight to the source. >> was Oh, no, yeah. I CORRECT. >> PEOPLE DO NOT READ the text. >> the text. >> Okay. That's what I did. >> all I'm saying. >> Uh-huh. >> Be mad at me if you want, okay? I used to be one of you. That's how I know. Right. Like Joan of Arc, who's one of my heroes for for standing up for what she believes, trying to get England out of France. She was trying to defend France. And they caught up with her, handed her over to the Burgundians. The region was under controlled by the Brits and the Brits tried her and burned her at the stake. But like for what? It can't be because she wasn't religious cuz she was. Anyhow, go read the transcript of the trial. Just like was it a third of it or a fourth? There's some large fraction of the conversation about how and why they should burn her that cites the fact that she was a cross-dresser. Wow. And where's that in the Bible? I got the quote. It's "A man should not don the clothes of a woman, nor the woman a woman the clothes of a man, lest it be an abomination unto the Lord thy God." So, people say, "Oh, they get their moral code." Generally, it's a cherry-picked set of >> code and you're you're you're using rational really secular thought to say that's messed up. I'm not going to do that. But this is pretty good. Let me do some of that. And then you bring that forward and then that becomes your your your code. >> Yeah. And I don't mind your code. I think it's great for the most part. Just you know, don't make me have to live by [laughter] your code. That's all I'm No, if if it's the weird parts. I mean, some code is feels universal in it. Yeah, some of it does. Here's an interesting fact. In Christianity, generally there's a the ethos that you're kind to your neighbor. You're you're reflecting a lot of the teachings of Jesus. >> Of course. >> Turn the other cheek. >> Absolutely. >> This sort of thing. This This fueled Martin Luther King. >> It's radical. I love it. >> Yeah, it was it's That was not in the Old Testament. >> No, it's not in the Old Testament. >> Right. >> an angry [clears throat] old white dude in the Old Testament. Get off my lawn or I'll smite [laughter] you. Guess what? Your wife, she's now a pillar of salt. I told that broad not to turn around, okay? You won't listen TO ME. I'M GOD AND YOU GOING TO LISTEN [laughter] TO ME. NO, YOU BETTER BUILD a boat cuz I'm going to drown all these mother efforts. YOU'RE ALL DYING, OKAY? I'm mad, I'm [laughter] old, and I'm white, OKAY? I'M GOD. DAMN IT. >> [laughter] >> CHUCK AS GOD. CHUCK AS GOD. >> OH GOD. >> That's how he would describe it. >> Yeah, but the New Testament is lovely. >> Oh, yes. It's very >> Oh, I love it. It's gorgeous. It's just gorgeous. >> But all of Christianity, for those of you who think that it's political or it's stopping gay people or it's stopping this person or you don't do this or don't do that, all of Christianity comes down to this. Love god with all your heart, soul, and might. Love your neighbor as yourself. How do you love yourself? The way god loves you. Love god with all your whole your soul, heart, and might. That's how you love your neighbor. So, first he tells you what to do, then he tells you how to do it. You love him with all your heart, soul, and might. Love your neighbor as yourself. How do you do that? The same way you love god. And that means up and across. It's all your heart, soul, and might wrapped up in love and given to another person. That is Christianity. Anything else is heresy and you've been fooled. Chuck, sometimes you sound like a preacher. You know, I'm going to come out of the closet, Neil. I'm going to just come I'm going to come on out of the closet. >> Oh, oh, wait. You've been on this show for 14 years and now something's coming out of the closet. >> Believe it or not, I've never said this and I'm going to say it. I used to be a Pentecostal minister. What? I was on my way I I was studying. I'm technically ordained. I have not um I did not fit go through with it. I didn't finish up. But um yes, if there was a time where I stood in a pulpit and I preached the gospel of Jesus Christ. I was the guy on the street with the bullhorn. I was the person handing you a tract. What? >> me. And when I say I was one of you, when I talk to the religious people, I I was beyond one of you. >> beyond one of you. I was a zealot. I was beyond. Okay. >> And so, yeah. Uh Okay, so you got I've never I've never said this. >> cred here. >> You know, I never talk about it. Um I don't It's a part of my life that in many respects brought me a lot of good. >> Mhm. >> It's a part of my life that was also, I think, damaging Okay. >> respects. Mhm. >> And uh I guess I don't know. I'm still conflicted about it. Okay. >> People ask me if I believe in god and I will not tell YOU THE ANSWER. >> [laughter] >> GOT TO LEAVE SOMETHING ON THE TABLE, RIGHT? ARE WE done here? I You know what? I'M READY TO LET'S TAKE UP A COLLECTION. >> [laughter] >> I NEED SOME MONEY. WE need to take up A COLLECTION RIGHT NOW. FOR THIS SERMON. THAT'S RIGHT. >> [laughter] >> YEAH, PASS the chap NEEDS A MERCEDES-BENZ. SO, THIS WAS JUST AN EXPLAINER, just to catch you up on what might be the latest thinking along the lines of how the universe get here. Was it divine providence or some other way? Those are cool questions. Some unanswered. Anyhow, uh until next time, as always, keep looking up.
Look at how religion actually works in real life. People used to think seizures were demons. They called priests, did exorcisms, and when the seizure stopped, they said God fixed it. Now we know it's neurological. The explanation changed, the belief didn't. That's the pattern. Disease, natural disasters, mental illness, all blamed on God or the devil until science stepped in with real answers. And Christianity keeps doing this. People thank God when they win, but never blame God when things go wrong. If God controls everything, then he's responsible for both. You can't pick only the good parts. Then there's the Bible itself. Most Christians haven't actually read it. They repeat what they've been told. And when you do read it, you see contradictions and selective rules. People ignore parts they don't like and keep the ones that fit their views. There are verses used to justify harm, like Deuteronomy 22:5, which has been used historically to punish people for how they dress. That's not morality. That's control shaped by culture at the time. And if Christianity is the one true system, why does it keep changing depending on who's interpreting it? So here's the question. Do you think the universe actually needs a creator? Or are we just filling gaps with belief because we don't have all the answers yet? Drop your thoughts in the comments. I want to hear how you see it. And if you enjoyed this breakdown, make sure to like the video and subscribe for more.