Transcription
How to navigate the jungle of food supplements? How to make the right choices? How to avoid mistakes? It is often said to ask for the advice of your healthcare professional, but in reality, healthcare professionals don't know either. Many are not trained. Science is increasingly attacked, and the denial of scientific reality is increasingly strong. Absolutely. Many people don't identify with it, saying, "Me, I don't have a mental health problem." Then, when you start explaining that it's vulnerability to stress, irritability, sleep disorders, attention disorders, concentration problems, then many more people start to say, "Ah, that's starting to resonate." The question is, should we wait any longer to act when we have solutions that are available and can be effective? Metamorphosis, the podcast that awakens consciousness. Is it really possible to relieve depression or slow cognitive decline thanks to well-chosen capsules? A medical psychiatrist, researcher, and university professor, my guest today is one of the pioneers of nutritional psychiatry in France, and in his brand-new book, Food Supplements and Mental Health, just published by Flammarion, he explores the deep links between our diet, our deficiencies, our microbiota, but also the role of the vagus nerve and our psychological balance. I am delighted to welcome Dr. Guillaume Fond to Metamorphosis today. Hello. Hello Anne, how are you? Ah, I'm very, very well. Very happy to be here again. Yes. So, precisely, we did this show a few months ago which was an absolute phenomenal success. We talked about feeding your brain well, stress, anxiety, depression, concerning your previous book. Now, this one is structured a bit differently, and especially at the time, you told us there were studies coming, and well, they have arrived in the meantime, so we're going to talk about them. We have, uh, real novelties. We're going to take an angle that's perhaps a bit less about pathology and delve a bit more, as I said in the introduction, into the microbiota, into supplements, into active ingredients, and try to, I would say, sort out the truth from the falsehoods because you say it and you advocate for more public knowledge on this subject. Exactly. For example, we talk about food supplements. I think it's very important to distinguish what exists in daily food, nutrients, vitamins, essential fatty acids. So, what we need every day to nourish our brain. Probiotics, which are truly a separate category, they are live bacteria, and so that's very specific, it's the gut-brain microbiota. And then concentrated plant extracts, which for me would almost lean more towards the medicinal side because they have real active ingredients but also contraindications and risks of interaction. So, this book, what was your intention with this book? Well, I am always guided by the people who contact me. So, each time, I try to respond to the demand. So, eating well to stop being depressed was about understanding the gut-brain axis. Feeding your brain well was about how to directly provide our brain with the compounds it needs to function optimally. And in this book, I answered the question: How to navigate the jungle of food supplements? How to make the right choices? How to avoid mistakes? Because, in fact, we often say to ask for the advice of your healthcare professional, but in reality, healthcare professionals don't know either. Many are not trained. I myself had to do over 18 months of research for this book. So, not everyone has 18 months to read scientific studies. So, my goal is to answer the questions of the people concerned, their loved ones, but also healthcare professionals. That's right. So, in this book, you truly deliver the quintessence of these results. So, I recall, you are a researcher in cell and molecular biology. You have completed two doctoral research degrees in immunity, microbiota, and obviously psychiatry, as that is your core subject. So, it is truly, as you said in our previous interview, you are truly at the forefront of research in nutrition, but also a pioneer because until now, there were very few people, even in medicine, who were truly interested in these links and this subject. Yes, I actually fell into it through scientific studies. It wasn't just a random occurrence. I was guided by science there too. I worked on psychoneuroimmunology, so the link between the immune system, the brain, and mental health. And from there, I went directly to the microbiota with all the new discoveries we had about the gut-brain axis. And then in 2019, the first major meta-analysis on nutraceuticals, highly concentrated nutrients, and their effectiveness in mental health was published: omega-3, vitamin D, methylfolate, zinc, probiotics. And I was blown away by these results, and that's how in 2022 I published the first book, and then each year, we have new data. That's what we're going to talk about. For this book, I had the chance to have Taiwanese colleagues. I'll specify, it's not me doing all the studies. The studies are published by dozens of research teams worldwide who have no conflicts of interest. They report them if there are any. And I specify this in the book because it's important, because one might say, yes, it's funded by the industry, all that, it's published. Extremely precise in the book. Yes, that's very important. And, uh, and this year, so it came out 6 months ago, a large network meta-analysis. What is a network meta-analysis? It's a meta-analysis that ranks food supplements, and 44 food supplements were tested for depression. And these 44 food supplements successfully passed the tests, and two-thirds are more effective than placebo. Yes. And that's very important to say because one might also say it's the placebo effect, take your capsules. Well, no, it's not the placebo effect. In fact, the studies show it. It has been ranked. We have an order of effectiveness. We have what are called confidence intervals. So, we know the uncertainty we have, and that's where people don't agree. That is to say, once you have this uncertainty, the human mind hates uncertainty, and we saw it with climate change, for example. And so, as soon as there is uncertainty, there are people who jump on it to try to tear it down, saying it's fake, etc. However, in medicine, everything has a confidence interval, and the question is, should we wait any longer to act when we have solutions that are available and can be effective? I receive dozens of testimonials every day from people who tell me that it has truly changed their daily lives, and I have never had so many testimonials since I started acting on psychonutrition. So, at some point, we must also listen to the words of people who say that it has changed their lives. Of course, of course. And indeed, you include testimonials at the end of the book again, and it's good to read them because we see that it concretely changes people's lives beyond the studies, etc., and the numbers. People say it after 3 weeks, after a month. And you also remind us that for food supplements, one must also accept a slightly longer time. So, friends, I'm going to take a short break in this episode to introduce our partner of the day, and we'll be right back with Dr. Guillaume Fond. Friends, there are moments when we feel the need to take a break, to step back, to ask ourselves where we truly are in our professional lives. If this resonates with you, our loyal partner, Chance, can help you. With their career assessment, you can redefine your professional life and clarify what truly matters to you. In just 3 months, thanks to the support of a dedicated coach, cutting-edge orientation technology, and the support of their community, you move towards what Chance calls "pro-love." Work that makes sense and makes you want to get up in the morning. This assessment is financable with your CPF. So, if this speaks to you, go to chance.co for a free consultation with an advisor. I'm specifying about the testimonials because that's also something that can be attacked by saying, well, yes, it's the placebo effect. No, a placebo doesn't know what's written in the book because people clearly describe that they've been looking for solutions for years. So, if they responded to the placebo, they would have responded to the placebo in other things before. And here, they truly describe a change. And what I love is when people say my spouse, meaning that it's not just them, it's that they had their spouse test it, and they describe what they see in their partners. So, then I say to myself, this is truly great because it's external, you can't talk about subjectivity. They see it in their lives. And the question was, no, no, about the long-term effect of the supplement. Yes, the long term. That's also something I emphasize a lot because it's a frequently asked question: patience and regularity are truly key. Why? For most supplements, we're talking about 8 to 12 weeks, to give you a rough idea. Some people might see results faster, others might take a bit longer, and it all depends on the initial deficiencies, the dosages, and the forms of the supplements chosen, of course. Why this long period? Well, it's because often we're coming out of years of malnutrition. So, we need to re-nourish. The body has absorption regulation mechanisms. It's not enough to take a megadose once to regenerate the whole body. No, there are regulation mechanisms. And then there's epigenetics, which is gene expression. I'll take the example of vitamin D, for instance, which influences the expression of our genes, even in the brain. In fact, there are receptors in the nuclei of neurons in the hippocampus, which is involved in memory. And this vitamin D is a key to activating certain genes. It's the same for zinc, it's the same for omega-3. And so, this is very important, we said it last time, it needs to be repeated. What we put on our plate conditions how our genes are expressed. It's really something incredible when you think about it. Yeah. Yeah. It's mind-blowing. Moreover, you remind us that one does not oppose the other, and that one does not replace the other. That is to say, so, perhaps, give us a reminder on this subject. Exactly. Yes, in the book, I start with common misconceptions because I admit I'm a bit exhausted from repeating the answers to them. So, we won't go over all of them, because some are obvious, and you reiterate them in the book, and people will discover them, but perhaps say, yes, what is a food supplement? The name itself indicates it's a supplement to food, so no one is saying it will replace a healthy and balanced diet. No one is saying you shouldn't reduce ultra-processed foods. Obviously, it's precisely because there are too many ultra-processed foods that these supplements become necessary. Because it's increasingly difficult in our modern diet to properly nourish our brain and balance our microbiota. So, not everyone has the time. There are financial and budget issues that are increasingly important. Many people write to me about this. There are questions about organic, about additives. So, there are really many topics, as we've seen over the past year in food. So, for me, the supplement is really one of the tools among others, and it's one of the easiest to implement because the others require changing eating habits, starting physical activity, changing the people you associate with, exposing yourself more to nature, to light, and it's not always that simple to change these elements quickly in your life. Yes, you review them, and it's perhaps important to revisit this in our introduction, is that it's a market that is both very controversial because, again, when you're in a very polarized world, it's either it's useless or it's great. And in fact, you invite, and scientists also argue about this, and you invite us to return to a position that is simply balanced, both with moderate studies, which food supplement are we talking about, and so on, and you untangle all of that in the book. Yes, I really try to move away from the emotional because indeed, we are increasingly reacting rather than reflecting, as we see globally. There is a subject around scientific truth. Science is increasingly attacked, and the denial of scientific reality is increasingly strong. So, in fact, food supplements are not exempt from this issue. So, I don't understand why this data isn't better known. In any case, that's why I'm doing this and communicating about it, especially on social media and through books, because I think it's really very important, and there is a demand, including from healthcare professionals, I insist on this. I have many young colleagues and people from other professions who contact me every day for training requests. So, there is a demand because the need is real. The need is real. Indeed, I had Dr. Telinet, a gynecologist, on this show not long ago, who didn't know you. So, Dr. Tel Malinet, I will offer you Dr. Guillaume Fond's book because I think it's important that among doctors, as you also said in the previous interview, you are necessarily focused on your subject, and even if during conferences, as you recall, everyone talks about transversality and more integrative medicine, in reality, either people don't have the time, or there isn't the open-mindedness. That's exactly it. And let's remember that many professionals train themselves by reading what other professionals are doing to popularize it. For example, I did my medical studies 20 years ago. I'm no longer up-to-date in many disciplines, and I love reading what my colleagues are doing in gynecology, cardiology, oncology. And these are all interconnected fields. People talk to me a lot about premenstrual syndrome, menopause. It's a real issue in mental health. Yes. And so, all of this is very important for me to know, and I myself don't have the time to read all the scientific studies from other disciplines, and I try to build bridges, but I only have 24 hours. That's right. And you run every morning. That's true for your physical and mental health. That's wonderful. In any case, perhaps to start, a first truth. Who are the main contenders, as you call them, who have passed the test, and it's recent studies that show us this, and which truly have irrefutable, let's say, undeniable scientific proof. Today, we can no longer question the effectiveness of omega-3, vitamin D, methylfolate. Now, folate is vitamin B9 found in food, but methylfolate is the active form, and it's the only one the brain absorbs. And I'm talking about this form because there are genetic variations that cause some people to convert poorly. So, that's important, it's 35% of the French population. So, it's not with a particular acronym, MTHF, is that right? And then zinc and probiotics, all of that is now solid. The question now is, we're moving to the next step: how to do precision medicine? It's really about individualizing, so for which person, what dose. But my approach is more of an approach, as we said in the introduction, to move away from pathology and go towards prevention and public health, because I am a public health researcher by training. So, my focus is on the mental health of populations. So, not specific situations, medical problems, but really how to nourish one's brain, how to balance one's microbiota. That's my research area. And so, what we know is that more than 80% of people worldwide and in France are deficient in omega-3 and vitamin D. Folates depend on the country because ANSES, the food safety authority, requests a food fortification program for folate in cereals. It has not yet been implemented, although it exists in many other countries. This means we are deficient in folate. That's why all pregnant women are supplemented with folate during their pregnancy. And my point is to say, but why do we limit ourselves to pregnant women? Because all brains need folate to function. I remind you that folate, vitamin B9, is a very important cofactor for the synthesis of serotonin and dopamine, which we know well. So, hormones and neurotransmitters involved in mood, energy, motivation. So, my point is, before moving to interventions that can be complicated to implement, costly, shouldn't we first ensure that we have properly nourished the brain, balanced the microbiota, and then, of course, move on to other interventions? And then there's the issue of plant extracts. Now, that's another subject. So, for me, plant extracts, well, we know in pharmacology that many medications are derived from plants. So, there's no opposition between plant extracts and medications. They are simply active ingredients that were then synthesized industrially. For plant extracts, one must be very vigilant because it's very complicated. That's what I explain, and I myself had trouble finding my way with certain extracts. To find the right standardization, the right quality. There are examples like with saffron, where I learned that because saffron is very expensive, there are many adulterations and products that are falsified with other products to reduce costs. So, one must be very careful about what one buys in such cases. And for plant extracts, I would really advise seeking the advice of a healthcare professional because there are real issues regarding tolerance and interactions because there are active ingredients that can really... well, I'm asked a lot about combinations, and I'm very cautious about that because there are almost no studies that study combinations of plant extracts. And so, you really have to... you reiterate that well, and later we'll talk about saffron, chamomile, lavender, and so on. In any case, about certain active ingredients that you haven't personally studied but have studied well at the level of studies. The only one I've studied is theanine, L-theanine. That's the famous one. We talked about it last time. So, in fact, I did the research on it. It's the first mechanistic study, which is not yet published as we speak, but it's imminent. So, you already told me that last time. In fact, it takes time, research time, because it doesn't depend on us, it depends on the journal that will accept the review and the reviewers, who are people, peers, who review the work and make comments, and so I'm doing this with a team that is itself overwhelmed. So, each of us has our personal stories. So, for all these reasons, it takes a bit of time, but it's for 2026. And this theanine, which has truly changed your life. Ah yes, well, for that, before, I used to nap every afternoon. I have a phase delay. So, in fact, it means that my system is genetically programmed to be a night owl. So, from a social point of view, it's catastrophic because it's very poorly perceived not to wake up early, to need time to get going in the morning. Conversely, living in the evening is perceived as a not very productive lifestyle, rather artistic, a bit of a party animal. Whereas my peak productivity is at 11 p.m. So, it becomes very complicated for social life, especially for a doctor. So, L-theanine has allowed me to stop dozing off in the afternoon. In fact, I had huge energy crashes that came from that, from the fact that I was always out of sync with my rhythm. I explain this in the book. It's my personal experience, of course, but I explain why theanine is really interesting. It's not just interesting for phase delays. It has shown many very interesting properties. Nevertheless, it's a fascinating personal anecdote because you said you used to get on the metro and have a kind of crash and have to sleep for 45 minutes, and many people experience this and don't understand it. And how can we measure that? By the way, I'm opening this because you opened this parenthesis, I'm taking the opportunity to give some information on the subject. In fact, there are ways to determine, I've talked about it on social media, I've done a bit on the subject, one's chronotype, to know if one is a morning person or an evening person. Most people know this intuitively. They see that they have more difficulty starting in the morning than others, or conversely, that they have much more difficulty going to bed early, and it also changes over the course of life. That is to say, the older we get, and that's a bit of an advantage with age, the more we shift back towards the morning. So, for people like me who have a phase delay, I am gradually resynchronizing. But thanks to theanine, or thanks to my children too, because I have two daughters aged 2. So, that wakes me up a bit in the morning too. So, melatonin is truly the ally of the whole family, because to keep going with two children under 2 years old, it's not a luxury to have theanine and other nutrients too. Yes. Because it really allows me to, well, to keep going, on a physical and truly heartfelt level for young parents and the mental health of young parents, because that's a real issue too. Sleep deprivation, change of rhythm, yes. Yes. Young parents are challenged, and even more so with all the discussions currently about ultra-processed foods for infants. So, I'm also saying this because we talked about it last time, you couldn't find formulations that suited you for your patients personally. So, you co-founded a laboratory where you offer supplements. You also state clearly in the book, for reasons of conflict of interest and for yourself, because precisely this theanine, you needed to have a pure and quality form, since that's also the question for supplements in general: how to choose a good food supplement? You used to make lists for your patients, and at some point, you took action. That's right, it's important to mention that because, indeed, one can caricature things and immediately highlight the conflict of interest. I have no problem with that. I clearly explain the approach. So, first of all, I've been communicating for years. I've been a researcher in psychonutrition for almost 20 years now. Time flies. And at some point, people would say, "Dr. Fond, your conferences, your books are great, but there are no solutions behind them. It's very complicated to take dozens of different capsules, it's expensive. Adherence was catastrophic. I saw it when I saw people again. At best, they took one or two from the list I gave them. Methylfolate was very difficult to find. So, there were many issues. And so, at some point, I decided to take action. I had that opportunity. It doesn't happen often in a doctor's life to have the opportunity to create a solution. Besides, I don't force anyone, I'm not here to promote my food supplements. It's just that I couldn't find what I was looking for, and I created it. In the book, I explain that the majority of the supplements I present in the book, I don't market them. I don't work with a laboratory, I created the supplements directly. I specify that too. It's not the same as a doctor talking about products from a laboratory. So, that's my creation. That's right. And it's clear, there's nothing hidden. And above all, it's important to remember that the meta-analysis, I really insist on this, and the entire first part of the book is on the scientific method. And that can be a bit daunting for people, but it's very important to spend some time on it. A meta-analysis is a study of all existing studies done by a research team, which guarantees that we haven't selected studies that suit us. And that's really very important to say because there will always be people who say, there's a study that shows this, there's a study that shows that, but it's the level of scientific evidence that counts, and meta-analysis is the highest level of scientific evidence. And each time, you mention the placebo effect in this analysis, you say if there were conflicts of interest, you mention them. I'm talking about global studies. I'm not talking about... you say, well, they did have an interest. Well, that said, the results might be good, but there was still perhaps an interest, etc. It's funded by the industry or not, and so on. So, that's really important to mention. Perhaps we can also return to this correlation between psychiatric pathology or, without even talking about pathology, daily troubles, let's say at the psychological level, and deficiencies. Are there very clear correlations in studies today? Yes, that's a very important point you're making about daily mental health because when we talk about mental health, many people don't identify with it, saying, "Me, I don't have a mental health problem." Then, when you start explaining that it's vulnerability to stress, irritability, sleep disorders, attention disorders, concentration problems, then many more people start to say, "Ah, that's starting to resonate." And around me, there are very few people who can say, "I have no sleep or concentration problems." And there's also the issue of burnout, an epidemic of burnout in the population. And so, all of this is what I call the mental health of the population, and it's often not addressed in medicine because we wait, not to mention hormonal fluctuations, exactly, we wait for a diagnosis, and there's still a lot to discover and define. The example of brain fog is exactly that. It was a term we didn't use until about 2 years ago. And it's a very important concept because once you say it, people immediately recognize themselves in it, whereas they didn't necessarily recognize themselves in depressive symptoms or anxiety or stress. They would say, "But that's not it for me." And there, they clearly describe a kind of veil that can be lifted. And here, I insist on this, there is a health claim for zinc, for example, on cognitive functions, including concentration and memory. So, in fact, and why? Because in the brain, there are neurons that only use zinc. It's in the glutamate system, which is an excitatory neurotransmitter. And so, logically, if these neurons don't have zinc, they will malfunction. And the misfortune is that the blood dosage doesn't reflect the brain stock, as with magnesium and many minerals. Only iron, in fact, can be measured to know where we stand. And even with iron, I recently learned that one can have a normal level, meaning not be anemic, and still be deficient in iron at the central level and have, for example, restless legs syndrome. It's one of the signs for people who have sleep disorders and constantly need to move their legs. And that can be a sign of iron deficiency, for example. So, in fact, our problem today is to precisely define the deficiencies, where we stand. And my point is to say, but if we ask people to go to the doctor, to have a check-up, a large part of which is not reimbursed, many people won't go to the doctor due to lack of time, lack of money, simply because the doctor is overwhelmed or not trained and will say it's useless. And my point is, from a public health perspective, wouldn't there be... already, we could offer the population something that doesn't endanger them but simply supplements the diet of the majority of French people. And ANSES has already published this data. It says how much DHA per day is needed, 250 mg. It says how much vitamin D covers the needs of 97% of the population, which is 15 micrograms. All of this is published, we have it. So, we can take action simply, without taking the risk of overdose for many nutrients, but not all. So, that's what I explain too. Yes, knowing that, I also had a fascinating interview recently with your American counterpart, a neuroscientist, Dr. Lisa Mosconi, who has written books on the menopausal brain and the female brain. She is also a researcher, and they are conducting the largest study ever done on menopause, which will last 3 years. So, it will be interesting to have the results and the brain. And what she said, which also aligns with many of the things you say, is that in medicine, when there's a hormonal problem, generally, as a woman, who do you see? You don't see a neuroscientist, you see your gynecologist. And the gynecologist is not necessarily equipped to know what's happening in the brain. And I don't think we, as a population, are aware today of what the brain actually manages for the rest of the body. Exactly. And that we approach it from another angle. In reality, the brain is the most complex organ in the body. That's why I chose mental health. In fact, I've always been fascinated by the brain from the start. At first, I wanted to be a biology researcher, and in the end, I realized that the only way to do research on humans was through medicine. So, that was really my aspiration from the beginning, to understand this extraordinary organ, the only one that has given its own name, by the way, and how we go from billions of neurons and electrical activity to a unique thought, a unique self-awareness. I haven't found the answer yet, but I'm still looking. I don't think anyone has it today on this subject, but the brain is fascinating and so complex, and that's why we talk about... I don't want to devalue the others.
disciplines because I have enormous respect for other disciplines, but there are what are called organ sciences. Cardiology is the heart, pulmonology is the lungs, nephrology is the kidneys. And so I, I could never have gone into an organ specialty because indeed, we are a whole and above all we are an interconnected body and mind. And so there are many topics around what is called psychosomatic, which by the way is changing its name. For me, it's obvious. But to what end is it changing its name? Uh well, we now talk about functional disorders. Yes. Okay. That nomenclature doesn't speak to me much either, but in eating well to not be depressed anymore, for example, I had explained the loops of stress. I feel psychic stress, I will raise my cortisol level. All doctors know that. But what they don't know is that cortisol will make the intestine more permeable. It will increase the permeability of the intestine. It will let inflammatory agents, antigens, pass into the blood. It will create inflammation, therefore an activation of the immune system. It will weaken the immune system. It will decrease the absorption of certain nutrients and in a cascade it will impact the brain, which will itself become more vulnerable to stress and will secrete more cortisol, and therefore we have a vicious cycle like that which sets in. So for me, as a psychiatrist, it is obvious that psychic stress has physiological consequences and that if we do not address both dimensions in management, we miss half of the problem, and sometimes it is even the visible part of the iceberg, it can be 90% of the problem. So, I think the majority of doctors are aware that the psychic dimension is very important, it's just that they don't have the time and they don't have the tools either. That is to say, concretely, they don't know what to suggest. So, could we say, and I am deliberately simplifying, that our brain is suffering when it lacks what kind of nutrient? And when I say suffering, I mean suffering that can lead to many things, and we won't necessarily list them, but it can be stress, a sleep problem, all that you mentioned earlier. It can also be procrastination, I don't think about it. But in fact, procrastination is a lack of motivation, it is a lack of psychic energy, and in fact, this can completely stem from a brain that is not sufficiently nourished. Firstly, I would say in order of priority of what is lacking in the diet, and this is supported by epidemiological studies. Everything is sourced in the books, it's DHA for neurons. In fact, we only find it in fatty fish. Less than 30% of French people consume fish once a week. And even then, this fish is rarely fatty fish. It's more likely to be farmed fish, which isn't necessarily great. So in fact, the preference for sardines and mackerel, I'm fine with saying we should eat sardines and mackerel twice a week, but already not everyone likes that. There's an issue with contaminants. It also provides a lot of calories, and therefore the diet should not be too high in energy, especially if one is sedentary. It also depends on basal metabolism because we were talking about menopause, it can also slow down metabolism. So, there are many issues. So it's not as simple as saying we can find everything in fish. There are vegetarians, there are vegans. After all, all dietary patterns must be taken into account. So, firstly, DHA because it goes into the membranes of neurons, it's an omega-3, it softens, it fluidifies the neuron membranes, it improves neurotransmission. And we often say, well, a colleague told me this 10 years ago, the misfortune of psychiatrists is that they cannot get out of the synapse. The synapse is the gap between neurons where serotonin is. And in fact, yes, it's true, psychiatrists don't think that there is also a membrane in neurons and that there is a whole circuit to reach the synthesis and release of serotonin. And so if we use a reuptake inhibitor, therefore an antidepressant, but which has no serotonin to begin with, well, it won't work. So in fact, there is a whole topic around omega-3s, and I even explain that the combination of antidepressants and omega-3s is more effective than either alone. So there is no opposition. That's what I mean. I'm not saying you should stop taking medication and take supplements, that's not my message at all. So I would never say to stop taking medication without medical advice. Of course, ethically, we are not allowed to say that. It is the prescribing doctor, of course, who determines with his patient whether to continue, stop, or modify the dose. And then there is vitamin D, which is greatly lacking for all French people and at all ages. So, while currently it is reserved for pediatrics and geriatrics, let's say to caricature. But in fact, needs increase significantly from the age of 50, but throughout life we have vitamin D receptors that need to be filled. And what is super interesting, what I discovered, you insist on the receptors. Exactly. is that in fact, the current vitamin D levels are defined for bone metabolism because in fact, vitamin D was discovered in calcium metabolism and the fixation of calcium on bones. However, we have vitamin D receptors that were discovered in the brain 15 years ago, which is very recent in science, and in key areas, particularly the hippocampus, which is involved in memory, the amygdala, which is involved in anxiety, and therefore in the cortex, in cognitive functions. So it's super interesting. Vitamin D is completely underestimated and under-prescribed, especially in mental health, even though 100% of people with mental health issues do not have enough vitamin D when systematic dosages are done. Why? Because they are exposed to the sun even less than the rest of the population. Their diet is often even less diversified. So if we have a mental health problem, I say the basis is omega-3s, vitamin D. Then the issue of folates, which we talked about, and here 35% of people metabolize poorly, and if we don't do the genetic test, we can't know if we are part of those 35%. It's under very specific conditions because as soon as we do genetic tests, it's complicated because it means we're touching DNA and we need ethical agreements and so on. So it's not done, it's done in practice for certain dementias, most of the time. We can't do it in easy everyday practice. And then there's the issue of zinc because we were talking about menopause, right? Yes, B9. Yes, B9, I repeat because some know it, it's active B9, and I insist on the active form because often in prescriptions, B9 exists for pregnant women, but it's not methylfolate, in fact. It's the inactive form, and there can be a risk of accumulation. So we need to be careful. So here, it's important to get the advice of a healthcare professional. MTHF, there's less of that issue. Okay. And then zinc. So we were saying because in fact, the diet is becoming more and more vegetarian, which is good news. There are more and more whole grains. That's good for fiber for the microbiota. However, there are antinutrients like phytates that increase in the diet, which reduce zinc absorption. So we need to be careful too to have good zinc intake. And here, you remind us, for example, since we were talking about DHA earlier and omegas, well, omega-3s, that we don't do them in courses, we do them over time, and why not take them all year round rather than reducing them in the form of courses. That's a super important point, in fact. I don't even know where historically this logic of courses comes from. Already the word "course," we're not supposed to really use it for food supplements. We talk about nourishing ourselves, not a "course," it's therapeutic normally. That's true. So in fact, I don't talk about courses, and moreover, I don't like this logic of taking mega doses three months a year, and the rest of the year, we can do whatever we want. For vitamin D, it's often done like that. Super concentrated ampoules for three months a year. Now, that's for compliance reasons, we have to take that into account. Many people don't manage to establish a routine where they take their supplement every day. That's also why I wanted to create an all-in-one for that, because it's complicated. Yes. And so for vitamin D, in fact, many doctors prescribe mega-dose ampoules, and in fact, vitamin D receptors need to be filled all year round. And in fact, the level, precisely, I was talking about bone metabolism, we might need even higher doses to saturate the brain receptors. These are new studies that suggest that. So in fact, even with a normal vitamin D level, perhaps the brain doesn't yet have all the vitamins it needs. Yes. And also with omegas, there's a question of dosage. Yes, exactly. Saturation shows much higher results than an average dose. That's it. Yes, there's an effect of That's the 2025 study, I think. No. Yes. Exactly. Omega-3s are fascinating because in fact, well, there are mixtures of a lot of contradictory information. So on the surface, you might think, one says white, another says black, and both are doctors, who to listen to? So I explain for those listening, I'm talking about the brain above all, and there can be cardiology studies that say otherwise, particularly in the United States, because omega-3 food supplements in the United States pose other safety problems with the totox index, the oxidation index. This does not concern Europe, or the European Union has very strong regulations. And so, there are doctors who promote food first, meaning starting with food, and therefore push back food supplements. This is also the case for some dietitians, often. And my point is that we should not deprive ourselves of a lever of action. We cannot afford, in the current situation of the population, and especially for our brains, to do without solutions. If some people manage to achieve their goals with a healthy and balanced diet, that's perfect. But I also have people who write to me saying, "I'm doing everything I should, and despite that, I still have problems with concentration, memory, vulnerability to stress." And there, they describe to me that with supplementation, they managed to get the help they needed to break free, to achieve mental clarity. There's a threshold, isn't there, that is truly crossed, and that comes from absorption, it also comes from the microbiota. I discovered the work on menopause, in fact, that during menopause, this is very recent, the gut bacteria change, and that there are bacteria involved in hormonal metabolism, particularly estrogens. This is called the estrobolome. I didn't know that. It's very recent in scientific data, and that can modify hormonal regulation, and therefore in the brain, there are estrogen receptors that protect it from depression, in fact. So, if these receptors are no longer saturated and there are disruptions, it can conversely promote depression. We also see this in the perinatal period and postpartum, there is an increased risk of depression that comes from the same mechanism of hormonal disruption, or even sometimes decompensation. Exactly. Yes. And we see that there has been a lack of management, even though hormonal fluctuations are enormous, and we are discovering this for the peri- and pre-menopause. Exactly. With dramatic consequences in the perinatal period, both for the mother and for the child and the family. In fact, these are truly undiagnosed situations where the person describes loneliness, misunderstanding, or because she is supposed to be happy, young mothers, and in fact, she falls to the bottom of the abyss and doesn't understand what's happening to her. And in fact, there are studies on this that I explain, which are not yet numerous enough. There is a real lack of research on women's mental health. I explain this in "Bien son cerveau." I dedicated a whole part to it, and I myself was very frustrated to see. Now, the positive point, the glass half full, is that we have many studies on depression, more and more on anxiety, more and more on stress, cognition. The glass half full is that we don't yet have enough studies on premenstrual syndrome, on perimenopause, on PCOS, polycystic ovary syndrome, on many endometriosis, many topics concerning women's mental health, and this is due to, there are concrete explanations, it's not just a society focused on men, it's also that women are, so to speak, half the population. So that means we divide the recruitment pool by two, and there are many things. It's complicated to study fluctuations over time, in fact, of cycles, because then a study has to last longer to see several cycles, and it's more complicated to set up. Do you think that one day we will be able to say that x% of pathologies are linked precisely to deficiencies, and that if we manage to regulate this, as we do for menopause, for example, with estrogens, since you were talking about receptors just now, we would manage to regulate many pathologies that we thought were purely somatic in origin. So what is purely somatic? That's another question. Yes, it doesn't exist. For me, that would come from an external cause. Let's take cancer as an example. We know there are risk factors for cancer, tobacco, in our environment, things that increase the risk of cancer, but stress is a factor that plays a role because it will alter our immune system. Our immune system protects us against the processes that trigger cancer. Cancer is several steps one after another, and it's at the end that cancer is triggered. Each step is influenced, and in these steps, there are steps that accelerate with psychic stress. So there is no opposition. I'm not saying that all cancers come from psychic stress, but simply that cancer is a risk factor. And that's where people caricature, that is, they confuse risk factor with on/off. No, it's not "I have it, I trigger it, I don't have it, I don't trigger it." It's just "I increase my risk," and then it's statistical. It's a probability of triggering. H so, the question was, no, no, regarding these internal fluctuations and deficiencies, either hormonal fluctuations or endogenous factors. And then, we know that sometimes we are hit by an external event, which is a real trauma, and that's another subject. But when we have a problem where we suddenly feel depressed, anxious, when we don't see any valid reason, do you think that tomorrow this could be largely explained by deficiencies? Precisely, my point is that the brain is the most important organ because it is the basis of our reality, of our experience of life. And people describe to me that two identical days do not go at all the same way depending on whether we have a nourished or un-nourished brain, that is, what I call malnourished, because there are no other words for it. I'm not talking about a lack of glucose because there are also people who caricature this by saying, but we don't lack glucose. No, we have too much in our diet. When I talk about malnutrition, I'm talking about structural factors. So omega-3s, vitamin D, methylfolate, zinc, which we talked about, and also the gut-brain axis, that is, a balanced microbiota, and for me, this should be a public health priority. If I were in charge of public health, for me, it would be first to ensure that all our brains, and not just our brains of course, because in fact, it's the rest of the body too. It's not disconnected. Vitamin B9 has other functions in the rest of the body. 95% of serotonin is synthesized in the gut. So everything, the nutrients I'm talking about, benefit the rest of the body too. DHA, we have it in the retina, for example. So, my point is indeed to ensure that as human beings, we are properly nourished throughout our lives, and that, in my opinion, should change the face of the population's health. This hypothesis doesn't seem crazy to me. Dr. Guillaume Fond, Minister of Health one day, and why not, let's not wish for it, because given the current situation, it's completely. Yes, yes, yes. It would perhaps be more of a sacrifice than anything else, indeed. So this famous major study from 2025, you state it clearly, it has reshuffled the cards on the effectiveness of supplements, particularly on depression. It's a Taiwanese study, isn't it? Yes, 17,000 participants. So, it's important to recall the numbers because one might also say, these are micro-studies sponsored by the industry, not at all. So these are studies done for 25 years all over the planet, always against placebo. Some have compared them with antidepressants. So that's important because from a legal point of view, we are not allowed to compare. I am not allowed to say that a supplement is as effective as an antidepressant. Whereas scientifically it has been tested. So that's one of the legal paradoxes we have, in fact, in communication. So, I explain, and I insist on this in this book, these are scientific data. I also explain health claims, which are regulations, and I explain the differences between the two, and why there are differences between the two. We can't say everything, exactly, we mix them up, and that's complicated because indeed, we are not allowed to write the same thing on a supplement box and on a commercial website as in a scientific study. So I also explain these differences, and the differences in the world, because in fact, what is said in Europe is not the same as what is said in the United States, in Japan, in the rest of the world. So that's very interesting too, to look at things. A health claim, I say this for our publishers, could be, could be lavender is good for its relaxing effect. Are we allowed to write that or not? Whereas a scientific study could show that, well, it is or it isn't. In fact, for almost all plant extracts in Europe, there are no health claims. However, there are for nutrients, vitamins, essential fatty acids. So, for example, we are allowed to say that DHA contributes to normal brain function as long as we consume more than 250 mg per day. So that's an authorized health claim. So that's why I'm completely comfortable saying that about DHA. For vitamin D, we are allowed to say that it contributes to a healthy immune system. However, they forgot the second part of the sentence about the inflammatory response, also to a healthy inflammatory response. So, we are not allowed to talk about inflammatory response, even though it is in the EFSA report on vitamin D. So that makes communication complicated. So, I really hope that regulations will evolve to facilitate scientific communication because, conversely, there is scientific data available, I explain in the book, and that we have and that we cannot state as a health claim because it has not yet been evaluated. Which is a problem, because we know that in many psychiatric pathologies, the problem of inflammation is crucial. We also think of Alzheimer's, for example. If I take the example of curcumin, for example, one must be very, very careful, I say this from the outset with curcumin, one must get the advice of a healthcare professional because there are different forms, there are forms that can be very, very well absorbed, even too much, and it can have risks for the liver, for the hepatic system. So it's a spice that has anti-inflammatory properties, but we are not allowed to say that as a health claim. It's a spice, well, it's a form of turmeric. And on the other hand, just putting turmeric spice in your food is not enough because the doses are not the same and the absorption is not the same. In fact, you really need specific forms. Liposomal, for example, absorbed. There's the issue of pepper, in fact, which can be black pepper, which can be associated with piperine, which increases absorption, but which is dangerous if it's too absorbed. That's what I was saying. So, there must always be a healthcare professional who looks at the situation and is careful because there have been warnings about curcumin. But I take this example because it's an extract, it's a spice, concentrated and well-absorbed, it has anti-inflammatory properties, but we are not allowed to say that as a health claim, meaning we are not allowed to write "anti-inflammatory" on a box. So that's good. So this major study that reshuffled the cards, especially on depression, what did it show, if we finish perhaps there? So what it showed, out of 44 food supplements, two are more effective than placebo in depression, or I explain then, I started from there because I had to make a selection because there are an infinite number of food supplements, so at some point the book is already very thick, so I wanted to keep something accessible, so I chose the two-thirds in question that showed efficacy superior to placebo. That was my entry criterion for the book: to have shown at least in a meta-analysis a superiority to placebo in at least one area of mental health. Then, I looked at other areas of mental health, anxiety, stress, cognition, cognitive function in the elderly, particularly for probiotics, everything I could find. And from there, I explain for each what the level of evidence is. So we've already mentioned it for essential fatty acids, vitamins, minerals. So I say be careful with minerals too, not to overdose, because a mineral by definition, if it's overdosed, it can become toxic for the brain. So zinc, for example, you have to be careful, there are many supplements that are overdosed. What I also explain is that it's not normal that a doctor cannot prescribe zinc at the adequate dose, which is often between 5 and 10 mg per day, whereas the smallest available dose is 15 mg per day, which is an overdose for many people. So you have to be careful, be vigilant about that. Yes. So we've gone in many directions as usual, but I love it because we've covered a lot of ground. The microbiota, you also talk about the vagus nerve, which was a bit forgotten by medicine until recently. We are starting to study its role more and more. Remind us of the link between the functioning of the microbiota and, of course, the brain. How is all this linked? It's fascinating. The vagus nerve is the longest nerve in the body, connecting the gut to the brain. And we are discovering that gut bacteria have properties that stimulate the vagus nerve through certain substances they can synthesize. It's a nerve of relaxation that counterbalances the system that has a misleading name, which is called the sympathetic system. It's not at all sympathetic because in fact, it's the system of vigilance and alert. Exactly. And in fact, our modern life constantly stimulates and solicits the sympathetic system. And the parasympathetic system, which is supposed to counterbalance it, becomes exhausted for a whole host of reasons, including an ultra-processed diet, food additives that destroy the microbiota, but also the mucus that lines the intestine and protects the microbiota. Because in fact, we have mucus, which is proteins that protect the intestinal wall. There are several barriers in the intestine. The first is the microbiota itself, the second is the mucus, and the third is the cells of the intestinal barrier themselves. And in fact, we see that many people have an alteration of their microbiota, both quantitative and qualitative. Now, I'm asked about microbiota tests. Should one test their microbiota? It's controversial. There was a study published by Le Monde that showed that six identical microbiota samples sent to six laboratories gave six different results. There is no standardization, no calibration. So knowing who to trust for an analysis is complicated and not recommended at present. So that's what's complicated in the field of microbiota. Again, like with nutrients, we cannot precisely determine for a given person where they stand on this particular nutrient. For some, yes, but not for all. And from there, the question is, can we not simply say, let's go, let's supplement, being careful about the risk of overdose, and we have all the data to know if we risk overdose or not. Most of the time, there are no problems, there are no issues if you follow the instructions for use. And for probiotics, it's the same. What science has shown, and this is super interesting. We now have what is called an umbrella meta-analysis. I like that word. The umbrella is above all meta-analyses, it groups them. So it's the highest level of evidence. We are in ultra-proof. It takes all existing meta-analyses and concludes that probiotics are effective in depression, and that it's not due to small studies because that was a debate in recent years, that studies were sometimes too small and that created a bias. No, it says it's not due to that. The effect is real. However, we don't yet know precisely which strain because each study has its strain. There are several that are referenced, exactly. And so I list all the strains that have shown efficacy, and from there, the question of dosage is super important. You have to be sure there are at least 10 billion bacteria per day because studies with more than 10 billion are more effective than those with less than 10 billion, which is an argument in favor of efficacy because if there's a dose effect, it means there's a real effect, not a placebo effect, because by definition, there's no dose effect in placebo. Yes. And then the question of duration, because indeed, we see that there are even improvements beyond 12 weeks in cognition, and that means that studies lasting more than 12 weeks are more effective than those lasting less than 12 weeks, and often most studies are for 8 to 12 weeks, which can explain a lack of efficacy because we haven't waited long enough. Yes. Now, I hear you, you who are listening, you will say, "Yes, but then, which probiotic should I take for it to have an effect, and who can know which probiotic is right for my microbiota?" Well, there is no answer for which probiotic is right for my microbiota, because by definition, this microbiota is unique. Yes. So, we can analyze it, describe it, but we don't have the solutions in return. This is one of the research topics on probiotics. All researchers are fully engaged in this. I don't think we'll have the answers in the next five years. It's too complicated. In fact, the microbiota, we have to go back to the history. We only started analyzing it in 2009, with metagenomics, a new technique that allowed for fine analysis of the microbiota. 2009 is very recent in the field of research. It opened up enormous possibilities for understanding. At first, we thought there were three enterotypes, three different types of microbiota based on the major bacteria, and then in the end, we said there are more. And then in the end, we said each microbiota is unique, we have to move away from enterotypes. So we haven't validated that. Then we said, so we'll go strain by strain, and then we said, "But in fact, it's not the strain, it's the function that matters." That is to say, in fact, we can lack one bacterium but have another that has the same function, so there's no problem. So we go to the functional level. And that's how I approached it personally for probiotics, by choosing based on functions and, of course, efficacy data, meaning I started from what showed superiority over placebo in mental health in at least one area. Then, I looked at the functions, the functions of tryptophan synthesis, GABA synthesis, butyrate synthesis, which is a short-chain fatty acid, for example, that nourishes the intestinal walls but also stimulates the central nervous system axis. So in fact, there are many fascinating properties because gut bacteria have the genetic material to express these functions in the gut. Then, however, it's an encounter between a probiotic and a unique microbiota. And only a test can answer that. Yes. So what can we do? We can take them for a while. We said long enough, at least 8 to 12 weeks, if I understand correctly. Yes, that's it. And then we say, and if we have signs that show it's not suitable, we'll have them quickly anyway. Absolutely. In fact, I don't know, I'm trying to reason when one takes a probiotic, but that's really it, is that then, well, what I invite you to look at is the logic behind the probiotic's development. Is it because often they are presented, there are no authorized health claims around probiotics other than contributing to intestinal flora. However, there can be a logic behind how the strains were chosen, what is the scientific rationale. Yours was developed more for mental health, since that was your choice. Of course. The gut-brain axis. In fact, that's what I was looking for and what I was missing, because there are others that will be developed more in an immunity logic or in another logic. However, there are no authorized health claims for either the gut-brain axis or immunity. And there, have you seen people who took only the probiotic? I'm not talking about other supplements, and who, just with the probiotic, already had incredible results. Well, yes, the results, the testimonials, are available online. I come back to the question of testimonials because it's true that one might say, "Ah, well, between quotes, it's only the people for whom it worked." I mean, it's not a large-scale study, we agree. Exactly. But in fact, that's called qualitative research. Testimonials are also part of scientific data because in fact, it's not the same thing to have numbers because the average individual doesn't exist. So to say on average it works, it's important, it's essential, and that's what I explain with the numerical data, but also to read how concretely it transforms a person's life. These are qualitative data.
This is how it's called, we research and it's also part of the research. So in fact, I transmit these testimonies, it's not, quote unquote, to manipulate anyone, it's also because it's part of the scientific reality of what people experience in their daily lives. Yes, and we will never emphasize enough this gut-brain axis. Many problems originate in this second brain, which is the gut, and so we must always ask ourselves when I have psychological problems that you mentioned earlier, could it be coming from the gut, and question ourselves. Absolutely. And starting with diet, because in fact, the microbiota is often not sufficiently nourished. Everyone says this at ANS, there are not enough fibers in the diet. Fibers are what nourish the microbiota, which is found mainly in vegetables, especially green vegetables, leafy vegetables too, and there are not enough fibers to nourish the microbiota, but there are also people for whom fibers will have a counterproductive effect because they have too many bacteria. It will also inherit. Exactly. So in fact, that's why we can't give general recommendations and that here, we have to go more on a case-by-case basis and especially for people who have chronic intestinal problems to seek the advice of a health professional. So, you say probiotics, rather we incorporate them into the food bolus, so either just before or during the meal. Yes, in fact, there is interesting data on this, which is that we can have two approaches. Either we say we take it so that it reaches the intestine as quickly as possible, or we say we take it with the meal because the pH of the stomach, so the acidity of the stomach will decrease with the bolus and it's not a problem if it stays longer in the stomach. And then in the end, most probiotics, well, you still have to check this, but they are encapsulated with gastro-resistant capsules. So this is what the manufacturer communicates about. You have to check this and it ensures that the probiotic reaches the intestine intact whether you take it with or without the meal. So normally things are well done to be effective.
Now I'm crying because I can't swallow capsules. I learned this, we hadn't talked about it last time, it drove me crazy because I created easy-to-swallow capsules. I know. Moreover, there is the super diagram that shows that there are all these layers and everything, that it goes perfectly to the right place and I am here, I am crying. But this is very important because many people have difficulty swallowing capsules. So I chose, so there is the donation, I gave it to my vegetarian daughter. Well, great, who is certainly very deficient and so I knew it was so good for her that I bought another box for her and and in fact, there is no, I haven't found an alternative because it's true that there can be bottles and all that, but in fact, you can't mix omega-3s and other nutrients together because they are oily, in fact, and that's why the ducap is actually two capsules in one. And this is an innovation that I found brilliant because it allows, by taking, here, the same capsule, to have everything, all in one, in fact. And this was, this was not technologically possible. However, there is no alternative to opening them, still. Okay, I opened them to do, still, the beginning of the algae oil? Yes, but well, it doesn't bother me too much, but I know that for many people it's still a problem because we haven't fully answered the question at the very beginning when we talked about omegas, saying fish contain mercury, etc. We talked a lot about it last time, we talked about algae, which is still a great solution today. There is krill, this small shrimp, and there is also algae. Now, algae is the only vegan option. It's the only environmentally sustainable option because I can't pronounce the name of this algae. It's Schizochytrium. Yes, thank you. It's certainly not the easiest name to pronounce. And so in fact, krill oil is interesting because it's omega-3 phospholipids, and so that means that these phospholipids do not depend on the meal with which we will absorb them because in fact, algae oil omega-3s are more interesting with a meal that contains lipids because lipids will carry lipids in absorption. Yes, you explain that well too. So with olive oil, with avocados, with whatever you want, in fact, a gourmet plate with good fats is ideal for triglycerides, which are the form found in nature. I'll add to that, whether in fish or algae, they are triglycerides, it's the natural form, quote unquote. And krill oil is special but it's more expensive and it can't be used on a large scale to feed all the brains of humanity because my point is to offer solutions that are truly applicable to all human brains. That's why, regarding fish, if everyone started eating fatty fish, even just once a week as recommended by ANS, we would have to multiply farmed fish stocks by 7 because wild fish are at their maximum since the 1980s in terms of their level because otherwise we empty the oceans. I think we should have started restocking the oceans in the 1960s even to be sure. So we are far from it. We are far from it. And then there is the issue of animal suffering with farmed fish too. Anyway, there are many contaminating subjects, so algae can be a good solution. If you want to know more about the subject, obviously, there are details in the book and in previous books and in previous broadcasts that we have recorded together. So in any case, on omegas, we did a big update on omegas. So I took this detour. Maybe we are approaching the end, we can move on, and there are quite a few plants we haven't talked about. Well, there are still, maybe we'll do some quick ping-pong. There are misconceptions. We talked a lot about vitamin D again today. We talked about it last time, so that's important. We said we are all more or less deficient. Vitamin C, we are all rushing to it, whereas it's not that obvious. You say vitamin C, I say we're talking about mood, always. We're not necessarily talking about immunity here. Yes. In fact, vitamin C, I didn't choose it because, first of all, there's the issue of taking vitamin C every day. It's an antioxidant. You have to be careful with antioxidants because it's not always a good idea to take too much, especially too much. And there is a lot of vitamin C which is often overdosed. Vitamin C is found in fruits, in red bell peppers, in many healthy foods. In fact, that's why my point is to start with a healthy and balanced diet. So, you can find it, for example, by eating kiwis, clementines currently. Anyway, so that's why for me, dietary vitamin C is sufficient most of the time. After, if you need a little boost during a particular immune period, for example, without exceeding 1 gram per day, most of the time, it can remain a good idea. Okay. Regarding stress, everything related to serotonin, the happiness hormone, etc. What could we highlight? We talked about tryptophan last time. You mentioned saffron earlier, also for its relaxing effect. Of these, what are the... we don't mix them, you said we are careful about interactions too. It's not because we stumbled upon an active ingredient we like, or two or three, that we'll make a little cocktail ourselves. Exactly. Yes, exactly. Because I see combinations in some supplements that scare me a bit. Where I say, here we are playing sorcerer's apprentices a bit, and so we have to be very, very cautious. St. John's Wort is very well known, in fact, it's very popular in Germany, it's prescribed for mild to moderate depression, and its interactions with medications are very well known. So it's a typical example of a plant extract where you might think it's a plant extract so there's no problem, but in fact, well, yes, you have to be very careful. Ashwagandha, which we talked about, you have to be very careful, there are contraindications, and there was a report from ANS, which I explain all this in the book, which sounds the alarm, saying be careful, there can be issues, especially with prolonged consumption, so be careful with the dose and seek the advice of a health professional, here too, but it's good, why Ashwagandha, in fact, it's the Indian ginseng. It's good for stress, in fact, in meta-analyses. The level of evidence is not as high as for other nutrients we've mentioned, but in any case, the signals are very positive. It's obviously very studied in India because it's part of Ayurvedic medicine. And I find that great, that Ayurvedic medicine meets Western medicine with our Western scientific criteria, and that we show that yes, there is a beneficial effect. Exactly. So that's important to remember because often tradition is spoken of as something a bit like bullshit. No, in fact, it's interesting. You always have to test because tradition is not synonymous with effectiveness, but at the same time, yes. Well, sometimes it's what conditioned the survival of a species, perhaps, of the species, in 5000 or 6000 years ago, and the good news is that Ashwagandha grows in arid areas, and unfortunately, there will be more and more of them in the world. So that will be our ally. That's it. And perhaps let's talk about saffron anyway, because, in combination, you say an antidepressant, it has a major asset, and we're also talking about it more and more regarding ADHD, saffron. Hmm. ADHD is my great misfortune because in fact, it's very disliked by science. I know, in fact, it comes from a history where ADHD was first diagnosed in children. Then we said it stops at 18 as if by magic. Then we said, no, finally, there are still people who have ADHD in adulthood. And then we said, but in fact, there are people who develop ADHD in adulthood and who didn't have ADHD at 12 and who have it at 40. So in fact, that's where we are. So there's a whole controversy around the diagnosis, from when can we say someone has ADHD or not. And therefore, what controversy implies is no precise diagnostic criteria, implies research pending with somewhat vague criteria. We talked about brain fog, there are attention problems in brain fog. So are we in ADHD? Are we in burnout? Are we in brain fog? Anyway, there is... Are we in hormonal fluctuations of perimenopause where many women report their ADHD between 40 and 50 years old? We talked about it with Lisa Mosconi the other day. Absolutely. Are we just in too high mental load? Anyway, there are many, many issues, and therefore, scientifically, we don't have all the answers we would like to have. However, we have answers about concentration. So there are answers about zinc, about methylfolate, which we talked about, which participates in psychological and cognitive functions. So, we have answers for that. And what we will do, as we are now a bit short on time, we will do a series, here, with Doctor Guillaume Fond, where we will review perhaps some more plants we haven't talked about, or pathologies, or active ingredients, and that way you will know more. And then, of course, the idea is also to be able to discover your extremely precise work. So, we understood that with studies, but at the same time recommendations, and as the general public, it's good because it also allows perhaps sometimes to go see your health professional with your work, saying, perhaps I would like to try this or that, what do you think? I heard such a doctor, a psychiatrist, say that. Is it for me, am I aging, am I young, am I in such a situation, I have the impression that, could it be relevant? I imagine that's your intention behind all this. I love the feedback from people who tell me, "I talked about the subject with my health professional," I get a lot of positive feedback, more than one might think. So, depending on the professions. Pharmacists are often better trained and informed about dietary supplements than doctors because it's not part of medical studies, it must be remembered. So this is what I wish for, that it becomes part of doctors' training, because even, regardless of the efficacy data, they must know the subject because a patient will come and say, "I'm taking this supplement," and the doctor must be able to answer, "Is it okay or not okay depending on your medical situation?" And many doctors admit, saying, "I have no opinion," and some even say, "Take it, it can't hurt," without knowing, in fact, what we're talking about in terms of efficacy and tolerance. Yes, because when you see, you are, I would say you are the Mozart of psychonutrition, it's amazing, and at the same time, it's sometimes a bit frightening to think, well yes, how can a general practitioner or even a specialist have this entire database that you offer us, and so it's certain that you've summarized it in your works, and it can help many health professionals. So thank you for that. I have training requests too. So, as I am very meticulous, I absolutely want the training to be perfect. So it's not available yet, but I have a lot of requests for it, and it's true that there is a need because the existing training doesn't cover psychonutrition, that is to say, mental health, the brain, and the microbiota are generalist training, and there is a lot of data that I present in the books that require in-depth training. Yes.
So, if you can manage to grab your book and perhaps show it to the camera for those who are following us on YouTube, thank you infinitely, Doctor Guillaume Fond, for coming to Métamorphose again today to explain how to better nourish our brain. I remind you of the title of this book, Dietary Supplements and Mental Health, published by Flammarion. If you are subscribed to the Métamorphose newsletter, don't hesitate, it's free. You will certainly get additional information from the book that we will give you, on air. Thank you infinitely, and we will meet again very, very soon, as we said, for a series. Thank you. Thank you Anne, see you soon. Have a good day. If you liked this podcast, don't hesitate to give it 5 stars on Apple Podcasts and especially subscribe so you don't miss any episodes. Discover my guests in advance on Instagram at Métamorphose Podcast and also subscribe for free now to the Métamorphose newsletter to be informed about our conferences, workshops, and our latest news. To do this, go to our new website www.metamorphosepodcast.com. Métamorphose, the podcast that awakens consciousness.