We live in a world right now where if you say anything positive about China, you are labeled as a communist propagandist. And that is unfortunately the reality of the world we live in. I took my kids to play Batman yesterday. I posted a video of them playing Batmanon on Twitter and people are like, you're that's propaganda for the government. And it's like that's like my god. Like I can't even show my kids playing Batmanon in China.

"You cannot show them having fun here."

"No."

"You can't. And so that."

"They cannot be having fun in China."

"Yeah. And that that's."

"No fun allowed."

"No fun allowed, right?"

And so we have this stereotype in the West that China is this draconian place. It's a dystopian society. The economy is collapsing. You know, basically the whole system is going to fall apart at any time. But the simple reality is is that anybody who comes and sets foot on China for even a couple hours, you realize, okay, something is missing here. So, you know, Western media is not telling me the full story because everything I've been told in the West, it just is completely different. And then all of a sudden, you start meeting Chinese people on the street. You start seeing how the society is functioning and you realize that China is very different. And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that China doesn't have its problems. It doesn't have its challenges. Of course, it does, like every other country. But it is so different than what our perception is in the West. And so for me, I I I've actually just been very uplifted and very happy to see this because of again, I kind of started the show saying that I'm this unofficial official ambassador between the US and China. I mean, I I definitely believe and this has kind of been the cornerstone of our YouTube channel is when the US and China work together, the entire world wins.

"What's kind of most top of mind for you? Like when you come back and you've been back for a few weeks now."

"Yeah."

"What kind of stands most top of mind for you in terms of the most like more relevant issues today in terms of what you talk about and your field of work here?"

"Well, I think I think the biggest one is is going to be the economy, right? I mean, we always hear in the West for example, we we hear very several major points. Number one, you know, the economy is crashing in China. Okay. Number two, the demographic is is collapsing. Uh number three, you know, the youth are extremely unhappy and you know, number four, you know, the the real estate market's going to implode. And so, you know, what's really interesting is like these are these are kind of some I would say bullet points. Let's call them four bullet points that you'll kind of hear a lot throughout Western media."

"Yeah. Well, I think that's more like the YouTube bubble though, right? That those talking points."

"I I think it's a lot in like Wall Street Journal, CNN. I mean, I think it's kind of on your on your Western media. I mean, you know, for example, we hear that this decline of of China's economy, but yet it's still growing at 5%. You know, so that's that would be equivalent to adding a Thailandized economy, you know, this year or every year. That's still pretty impressive, you know, where it's there is still a considerable amount of growth. I think when you start looking at for example, who is contributing to GDP growth in the world actually, you know, China and India are really leading that front. So again, most of the growth is coming from Asia. I think when you look at Southeast Asian nations, I mean, there's still a tremendous amount of growth. I mean, you're looking at Europe. I mean, Europe has largely stagnated for a long time. Um, and and and I think there there's always there's always needs to be more perspective, right? So let's bring it back to like my first years in China, 2007, 2008. Now, that time, real estate was exploding, right? And and even myself here in Shanghai. I bought an apartment in 2009. Uh, it was a two-bedroom apartment out in Chioting. And it was amazing because I bought an apartment in 2009. I sold it in 2015 and you know, at nearly about a 400% profit. So I mean, it was like a ridiculous great investment for that. I was very fortunate to take part of. But it was kind of a great period of time to do that, right? I mean, I don't think you're going to be buying a house in 2025 and expecting any type of that type of appreciation, right?"

"Wow."

"And so I think what we're looking at is much more of a maturing of China. And I I I like to relate this story. I was in when I was in Tokyo, I actually went and played a round of golf and I played a round of golf with two expats there. And it was incredible because they had been there for 25 and 30 years collectively. And one of the expats, he said, you know, I just sold my apartment in Tokyo. I actually bought it 20 years ago. And, you know, I've I've actually just sold it. And remarkably, I sold it for the exact same price that I bought it for."

"Oh, jeez."

"And I'm like, what?"

"And he's like, 'Yeah, I didn't pay any capital gains because I've made zero capital gains.'"

"I'm like, 'Wow, 20 years.'"

"Obviously, you've lost money because you could have easily taken that money and put it into."

"Well, the value of that dollar is must have changed."

"I mean, the value of the dollars down or the value of the yen, I mean, but all but everything. I mean, you take that lump sum of money and you put it in an index fund over 20 years. I mean, you're going to do much better as an investment. So, you know, I'm like, wow, there really isn't a point to buy real estate in Japan then, right? I mean, that's that's why the interest rates are, you know, they've actually been a negative interest rate for a number of years where they're actually paying you to take out a loan to buy a house or very close to 0%. So, it's essentially free money. So, you know, you can very, you know, housing is very affordable there. But, you know, again, that that that is that society has shifted to a point where housing is just what it is. It's a place to live, right? We're not speculating it. We're not trying to get this crazy appreciation. And so, I think that's a that's obviously a market that is super mature. So, I think that's what we're seeing in the Chinese market as well is that, you know, we don't want you flipping houses and trying to make these crazy profits. Housing is for living. That's what we want you to do. So, again, I think it's a much more of a maturing and I think that's what you've seen when you when I look back over over the last 18 years of traveling here. China was just in a total different place than it is right now. And I think in many ways it's actually positive for China society."

"I feel there's a lot of people in the US that, you know, our cost of our cost of living just continues to grow higher and higher. I mean, it is just amazing how much things cost um, you know, compared to 2 years ago, compared to 5 years ago and and just that expense is is really."

"It's a little hard for me to to comprehend even to be honest. I haven't been back to the States since before co since 2019. I was like one of the last flights back, right? It's been a while since I've been back to the States and even then when I went back I was like, oh yeah, it's much more pricey than what I remember. But, you know, it's all right. It's it's it's America, you know, you got to you got to work in tax, you got to work in tip and you and all that stuff. But now from a more of a distant perspective, from what I'm understanding, what I'm reading, what I'm seeing, what I'm talking to other people just came back, yeah, the prices are a bit out of hand. It seems a bit."

"You can't you couldn't comprehend it, especially if if you are I mean, you're going to have such a culture shock since the last time it was 2019 because just in the last 18 months alone, you know, the prices have gone up so much."

"Well, I've seen those headlines, too. But since you live there, like you're feeling this directly like daily."

"Oh, absolutely. I mean, the cost of uh cost of everything. I mean, you know, our our health insurance went up this past year. I mean, so just from perspective, I mean, we're paying $1,500 a month for health coverage a month for health coverage for the five of us. Yeah. 15. It was $12.95 last year and now it's $1,535."

"Wow."

"So, that's just for health insurance alone. So, that's that's one part. Okay. I mean."

"But does it typically go up each year?"

"No, it was it for the first couple years was it was always at that $12.95 rate or something like that. So, but I mean, you know, your health your healthcare is a lot. Um, you know, your the real estate has gone up a lot, you know, pricing. Um, I think the just your your cost of your just daily living, your daily living, your cost. Yeah. You hear about groceries about a lot, right? You hear about the eggs and stuff like that? Like, how how widespread and real is that on a daily basis? Like, are eggs just actually out of control?"

"It I mean, well, the nice thing is is you do have a range. So, for example, I mean, if you really want to get, you know, the cheapest eggs possible, you know, I would say you you're probably going to pay around 50 cent an egg, you know, so you're looking at about six bucks for a dozen eggs, you know, would be kind of your cheapest option. And then, of course, if you want the freerange organic whole food market eggs, you know, you're paying a dollar an egg, you know, so you're literally paying 12 bucks a dozen. So, you know, you can kind of find needs that that fit your your budget. But, you know, it's it's getting to the point where, you know, for example, it's it's almost getting it it's so expensive to even eat at home. You know, a lot of times, you know, you would make the decision, you know, let's go to the grocery store and, you know, let's not eat out. Let's save some money. Let's save some money. Eat at home, you know, but you go buy steaks at, you know, Sam's Club or, you know, or Costco and or, you know, your local supermarket, you know, it's not cheap, you know, for for beef and, you know, for these proteins and, you know, by the time you add in all of these, you know, I need some paprika and I need all these little condiments and all this, you know, it ends ends up being quite an expensive meal. So, I think that's that's kind of like when we get back, I mean, it's amazing. I mean, we have um we actually have like a Michelin star uh Cantonese restaurant in a shopping mall right close to where we're staying. And so we've we order dim we order um actually like dim sum and also dinner from them probably like two or three times a week because it's just so it's Michelin star. But I mean, we're all in for a family of four. I think our bill last night was like 340 quai, you know, and that and that that was like sorry family of five, but it was like we ordered like seven dishes."

"It was like indulgent."

"It was great. I mean, it was fant and so we're like man, this is like unbelievable food. The quality is great. You know, you get it delivered at your house in 20 minutes. I mean, it's just incredible. But, you know, that meal in the US would be 200 bucks easily, you know. I mean, it'd be a really expensive, you know, meal. So, even your, you know, your Chinese, you know, like hot pot, like we love to go to hot pot. I mean, hot pot in the US is uh extremely expensive. There's a Heidi in San Diego, for example."

"It's like luxury, right? It's not."

"It's definitely. Yeah. I mean, you're spend I mean, Family Five, you're going to drop 250, 300 bucks to go to Heidi."

"At Hideila in the US."

"At Hideily in the US. 200, 300 bucks US."

"US."

"Crazy."

"Yeah. You're going to drop at least 200 bucks."

"That's like saying you're going to drop 200 bucks at McDonald's."

"Yeah."

"Which you have done before."

"Guilty as charged."

"Yeah. It's it's it's really and I think that's that's where people are really starting to see they're starting to kind of see these videos coming from China. And I think there's, you know, they're starting to see like, man, look at the, you know, there's been there's been a lot more videos, I think, circulating online that's been very interesting of, you know, foreigners going to China for the first time. Uh, I mean, we we've seen I think China has actually has starting to appeal very very much to especially a younger demographic in the United States because, you know, China has done a wonderful job. I wouldn't say it's even China that's done the job, but you know, China has benefited from a lot of social media exposure in the last 12 months specifically that have portrayed the country in a very positive way or at least made a lot more people more curious about China."

"I was going to say I I have seen an influx of uh both influencers and just common people just uploading videos of their trips to China and I I'll I'll watch them, you know, here and there just out of curiosity to see what they're saying. And in general, it's always positive. I've never seen any I haven't seen any negative and they're definitely have no affiliation to China. These are just regular people just coming in and reacting."

"Well, yeah, but but that's that's that's like one of the talking points. And I'd be interested because you you're so you know, you've been in the YouTube space. You you see a lot of those critics just basically saying that all these YouTubers are like paid by the government somehow to spread propaganda some, you know, obviously that narrative is going to come along with it by a certain group of people."

"For sure. Um, so but is this is this so interesting to see all these people kind of actually this like kind of flood of of online uh like vlogs and videos and just content like what do you what do you make of that when you see it because you've been you've been one of the earlier ones to be doing this, right? You've been you've been in this game for a long time. How does it feel to you when you see like this whole wave coming now?"

"Well, it feels fantastic to me because uh like you said, we've been in the YouTube game for about 5 years now and so we've been uploading content and and really trying to share China's story and it really just started out as kind of a personal didn't not really knowing where it would take me or what it what it would actually become u but it became a huge passion project that turned into a full career and you know and amazing opportunities that have led me around the world. But the main thing is is always just trying to share these experiences. So, you know, this year specifically, actually, I'm going to say these last 12 months, the growth of that, I think it's great. And I think it's it's it's amazing because I love to see more people discover China and really experience it for what it is. Unfortunately, we live in a world right now where if you say anything positive about China, you are labeled as a communist propagandist. And that is unfortunately the reality of the world we live in. I took my kids to play bminton yesterday. I posted a video of them playing Batmanon on Twitter. And people were like, you're that's propaganda for the government. And it's like it's like my god. Like I can't even show my kids playing bminton in China. I I actually talked about how."

"Yeah. They met a couple local Chinese."

"You cannot show them having fun here."

"No."

"You can't. And so that."

"They cannot be having fun in China."

"Yeah. And that that's."

"No fun allowed."

"No fun allowed, right?"

And so we have this stereotype in the West that China is this draconian place. It's a dystopian society. The economy is collapsing. You know, basically the whole system is going to fall apart at any time. But the simple reality is is that anybody who comes and sets foot on China for even a couple hours, you realize, okay, something is missing here. So, you know, Western media is not telling me the full story because everything I've been told in the West, it just is completely different. And then all of a sudden, you start meeting Chinese people on the street. You start seeing how the society is functioning. And you realize that China is very different. And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that China doesn't have its problems. It doesn't have its challenges. Of course, it does, like every other country. But it is so different than what our perception is in the West. And so for me, I I I've actually just been very uplifted and very happy to see this because of again, I kind of started the show saying that I'm this unofficial official ambassador between the US and China. I mean, I I definitely believe and this has kind of been the cornerstone of our YouTube channel is when the US and China work together, the entire world wins.

"Yeah, you've been saying that since day one, man. I love it."

"Yeah, that's that's that's my motto. I mean, that's that's kind of what drives me every day. And that's and you know, and and obviously I'm I've got skin in the game, right? My wife is, you know, Chinese. Our kids are half Chinese. You know, I want them to be proud of their hair."

"You want this to work out. You want the world to work out. You want China and America to work out."

"Yeah. Yeah. Well, like you said, we all three of us sitting at this table today have skin in the game on this, right? And I think that's that's one of the main reasons why we are so passionate about I think that's really what drives me like when whenever we talk about this type of stuff it's really for no other reason than honestly yeah we have skin in the game."

"Yeah."

"And the skin in the game is like real world consequences of our future and our kids' future and it becomes you know, especially frustrating when you see like all those false narratives."

"Yeah. But talking about that like do you see those narratives that we were just talking about in terms of China being this draconian place you know everything that comes with that angle do you see that narrative starting to crumble now with all these like, you know, more and more exposure?"

"I do. I do. You know, I think what's really I I the answer to that is absolutely. And I think what's been very powerful is the decision, you know, we go back a year ago when China's government started to say we're going to start opening up the country visa-free travel for a number of countries around the world. So, for example, you look at the EU, essentially every country in the EU is now visa-free to China. So, you can come for 2 weeks visa-free and that that's a huge barrier to entry because it is really mafan or very troublesome to be get the China visa and go through that process. So, all of a sudden when if you have a EU passport now, you can come and travel. That was a big barrier to entry for many people. Now it's like, oh, well, now I can just book a flight and just show up and."

"Well, we we've we've noticed a lot more foreign travelers here in Shanghai in the recent months."

"Oh, I mean, it's it's been a it's been a I mean, we look at the government data that's come out. I mean, it's it's without a doubt. I mean, there's a lot of foreign tourists now coming to China. Uh, Australia, New Zealand, visa-free now. I mean, Australia's done an amazing 180° pivot from their last prime minister, Scott Morrison, who was very, very anti-China, huge China hawk. And now, I mean, Albanese, I mean, he's met with Chi. It was just here. I think he's met three times in the last six months and."

"But he's caught a lot of flack back in Australia for even coming here, I think."

"It's going to take some time."

"You know."

"Well, I mean, I mean, it's always interesting because you went from like, you mean, it's 180° pivot, right? You've gone from like, we're breaking up with China to now like, let's build a stronger relationship. So, you know, I mean, people are going to take time. But you look at the Australian economy and how reliant that is on the Chinese market. I mean, a lot of Australians have made been very rich and very prosperous because of a fruitful relationship with China. So, I'm very much about trade relationships, trade agreements, you know, building working together. And so I I'm all about working together and finding ways on how we can do business together. That's that's a big part of what I believe in. But I think to answer the question, you know, has that started to crumble? It has because again, we you didn't have like dedicated YouTubers like myself saying like, 'Hey guys, I'm going to take you to China.' No, you had random Joe Smith from the UK who just said, 'Hey, I'm a travel vlogger. I've been traveling the UK and Europe, but guess what? China just opened up their borders. I'm going to go take a look.'"

"And then it's like, 'Wow, my first time to China. Not."

"Like people with like existing already like pretty big channels, you know, like that weren't doing any Chinese content. So, it's it's not like they're known for this. They had a trusted following already because they were just making content everywhere in the world and then they just happened to come to China and be like, 'Hey, what's it? It's kind of like I show speed coming.'"

"I was going to say it was I like to say it's a three-pronged attack to make this wall crumble down a bit more. So the first one would be the Tik Tok refugee thing, right? So all of a sudden we already mentioned Americans and Chinese directly correspond with each other."

"Right? And all of a sudden it's like, 'Oh, wow. I'm seeing Chinese content and vice versa, right?' So that's one. Second one was I think I show speed when he came here and did the live the live uh live feed for so many episodes and the amount of viewers and the amount of attention that got and all of a sudden everyone like a common narrative was oh everything is just normal there pretty cool everyone's just kind of cool and and I didn't really see too much negativity and then as a matter of fact they actually made a couple of people like heroes from you know, that the duck guy or whatever the."

"Yeah, like Chinese people that participated in his videos."

"And then and then so that's the second one and then the third one is what you just mentioned is the opening up of the borders. And that just naturally allowed a lot of regular content creators or non-content creators, just families coming to to visit and see for themselves and leaving posts and all through social media, of course. Yeah."

"Saying, 'Hey, this is actually kind of cool here. Whoa. Oh, my mind was blown. Hey, this is not kind of what I heard.' Things like that. So that combination, that threepronged attack in the last year is just I see the difference as well just as a as a viewer when I see regular content, when I see comments, you see the battle now. You see the debate between people protecting and also attacking as opposed to before it was always a one-sided voice. It was always depending on what channel you watched."

"But I'm noticing now you see like that like the the."

"There's a little more push back."

"Yeah, there's push back now."

"Little more balance to it. Yeah, I I definitely noticed that. Yeah."

"Well, and I think what's what's amazing is is we I want to kind of take it from the YouTube perspective because, you know, YouTube is a views game. I So, I relate it to this is, you know, I I had a I had got an email from a guy uh in Florida. He's an elderly gentleman. He shared with me his age and his and, you know, where he was in Florida and he said, 'Look, Cyrus, I I'm special forces, retired, been in the US military for a long time. um you need to understand that, you know, you're wrong on China and that China is the biggest threat to the world and we need to, you know, we need to cut off all ties with China. And he goes, you know, first thing we need to do is we need to expel all three 300,000 Chinese students in America. We should have not have a single Chinese student, you know, coming to the United States.' And so I was and so I don't typically get, you know, fan mail like that, you know, from from that, but I said, 'Oh, I'll I'll I'll engage, you know, so and I just, hey, I'm like, 'Hey, thanks for the email. Appreciate your time. Um, yeah, let me just kind of throw some facts at you. You know, for example, um I'm very pro-immigration into the United States. I think that immigration as a whole has been very beneficial to our country. Um, you know, if you if you look at in the last 30, 40 years, how many Chinese students have come to the United States and how much the United States has benefited specifically from Chinese students. You know, this has been amazing. I mean, let's just take for example the AI race, okay? The majority of people leading the AI development in the United States is Chinese people, right? They're all Chinese names, right? Like what you were saying?"

"Yeah. I mean, but the thing is is you you've got like the battle between AI is Chinese and America versus Chinese in China."

"It's like that meme of like that math like contest and it's like the American team. We're all like American Chinese."

"Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's like the American team finally beat team China, you know, congratulations. Like Jang Lee, you know, Leo, you know, you know, it's it's like all the all the Chinese last names. But but I and so and I said, you know, that's that's amazing that you would have this type of attitude that you want to expel 300,000 Chinese students from our universities. You know, there's so many ways we can go with this. Number one, you know, international students. They make up a a large part of the tuitions that pay for these universities, right? I mean, the other thing is is that again, we've have a lot of these students, you know, come to study in America. They remain in America. They become naturalized US citizens. They have children. They build lives. They build careers. I mean, this is all beneficial to our economy. This is all beneficial to our university system. Look at this China initiative, you know, that they started a few years ago where the where the government actually started going after these Chinese professors. They had this they had the China initiative go on for several years. They never found a single case of any professor that had any substantial links back to China and and basically they they but they really."

"Weren't there a few that have been accused?"

"A lot of them were accused. A lot of them were accused. A lot of them were brought to trial. But the problem is is that once you accuse somebody and then you put them through the legal process and then they go on trial for 18 months, their entire finan their their, you know, they had to get a lawyer to defend themselves. They're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to defend themselves. They've lost their position at their university."

"Yeah. The consequences are still real and lasting. They lose their jobs, lose all funding for their research."

"They lose the funding for the research and then it's like, oh, at the end of two years, oh, sorry, we didn't find anything. Off you go. And it's like, you've just ruined my life. Like, you've literally ruined 30 years of work here. And that's why we've seen a tremendous amount of Chinese professors leave the United States and come back to China. And so I said, 'This is a loss for America when you're going down this road.' And so this gentleman in or in in Florida, you know, he said, 'Uh, you know, you know what, Cyrus, this is how it works. All 300,000 students, they before they leave, they get briefed by the communist government, you know, before they go and then when they come back, they have to give a detailed report of everything they learn.' I said, 'That's that's not true.' I said, 'That's just completely fabrication.' And he's like, 'Well, how do you know?' I'm like, I know a lot because I probably know about 50 students in my career. Like my first career in China was a golf professional. So my my most of my client base was young kids, you know, ages from five up to 18. Many of them went on to study in the United States. Many of them played golf in the United States. So I can I can personally vouch that I know probably about 50 kids from China that have studied in the United States. Not a single one of them have been questioned by the Chinese government, nor did they have to go and report back to the Chinese government."

"Debrief."

"Yeah. It's like."

"I've heard that too, though. I I saw I literally saw a US politician on TV saying that all Chinese students are CCP spies."

"Yeah."

"Word for word. That's what you said. All Chinese students are like and that's."

"And and so what's interesting is is you have this gentleman who would be, you know, above the age of 60. You know, he's going to have his beliefs. It's very hard to win an argument against those guys because they're stuck in their ways, right? They're very stuck. But that's why I've kind of given up on that generation and I just say, you know what, you believe what you want to believe, buddy. You know, like if you don't if I, you know, I've laid out the facts for you. I've laid out why having Chinese students in America is a net positive for the United States and the evidence is very clear for that. Um, and again, I'm pro immigration as well. And and and Mike, even even the side effects of that, right? Let's just say that the United States goes through and from now on all Chinese students are banned. Well, do you think that students from Japan and Korea are going to want to come? You know, I mean, it has ripple down effects, right? Because other Asian countries are going to be like, geez, I mean, the US is now banning Chinese students. What happens? Hey, I know you're Japanese, but what happens if somebody mistakens you?"

"You're Chinese. Why are you doing."

"You know, I mean, people can't tell the difference between, you know, different kind of Asians. You know, what Asian are you? I mean, it's it's very very different difficult. So I I think there's these ripple down effects that people they're reacting on these emotions. And so I I anyways, I really want people to just understand that. Again, it kind of goes back to my core mission of of trying to improve this USChina relationship and more understanding. But again, you know, when you when you're on the ground for just a couple of hours at least and you're walking around these cities and you're seeing things there there has been there it it becomes very apparent that there's a much different side of China that you're not really going to see in the media and that, you know, honestly, even if you even if you don't like China, you should probably come just so that you can kind of understand it a little bit more and just at least see it."

"Part of I think one of the biggest problems uh in the US with the way people are feeling and this really has nothing even to do with China. you you really don't see your tax dollars working for you. Like you don't really see it. Like there's no real like direct thing where you like aha okay yeah here we go. There's you just feel like like where are they going right? They're going to wars."

"Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, problem there is you're looking at in the United States, just look to the Middle East. That's where you can see our tax dollars at use. Right. All those missiles and bombs and everything, you know. But I mean, no, you're right. I mean, that's that that is the a big problem that I think that a lot of Americans are having and are challenging. And so, you know, we can take the conversation away from China and just like look at the United States. I think that's where a lot of this younger generation are very frustrated because it's I'm not seeing my government provide for me and make things better, right? I'm not seeing, you know, a society that's improving. I, you know, I see that the cost of, you know, what what do most Americans really want? I mean, they they need to have cost of living that's affordable. They want to have a better quality of life. uh they want to be able to have a good job. I mean, this is kind of universal stuff that's that's really everywhere. I mean, that's kind of any society, you want to have those things. And so, I think that's where a lot of frustration is right now with the United States and why a lot of people aren't happy with the government and the way that it's going. So, yeah, I think it's it's really important that you know, we we start this is why I think it's important to travel because I think when you start looking at China and you start looking at say, the basic things in life, you know, like I was talking to my taxi driver today and he's just like, yeah, you know, your salary in America is so much higher. I'm like, it is higher, but did you know our cost of living is a lot higher? He's like, how much does things cost? I'm like, well, I probably pay around a thousand RMB a month for my phone bill. He's like, what?"

"A thousand RMB? Like what the what are you what are you doing on your cell phone?"

"Using the internet, you know, like just using it as a phone, like that's that's about what it costs, but it cost about 1,000 RMB a month. It does."

"And he's like, that's insane. And I'm like, I'm like, yeah. And I probably pay around another 700, 800 a month for internet in my home."

"What?"

"And I'm like, yeah. So I'm like, yeah. So we're talking just internet. Like my phone and internet in the home. I'm probably around 2,200 RMB a month. And he's like, that's crazy. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, that's So yes, my salary in America is higher because my costs are much higher. And so I think when you look at it from from like the the basic things in China are very affordable, you know, I mean, you can you can take the metro for literally um, you know, less than a dollar, right? I mean, it's very affordable to take the metro, cent, you know, 50 cents to a dollar to take the metro, you know, your internet because internet is now really becoming kind of a a basic thing that you need in your life."

"Basic utilities."

"Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like food, water, internet. Like you need to have internet, right? Especially in China. So I mean, so the government has to make that affordable. It's got to make a 5G network that works and it's compatible so everybody can access that."

"Yeah, it's it's insane. I recently did a just out of curiosity like 2 months ago. I just uh searched Verizon and uh T-Mobile and just just checking out some prices."

"Right? And yeah, I was shocked."

"To see that it was like over $100 US a month just to have anything not even comparable to what I have now."

"Like a basic data."

"Not even comparable. Like right now I'm paying what? Like 30, not even 30 bucks US."

"Right. Just just under 30 bucks US, but I have like 80 gigs of data. So I was like, damn, that's a lot. That's a big difference."

"It's a big difference."

"Yeah. I think the biggest like going back to what you were saying is like I think the biggest grapple I'm seeing in real time, at least what I think I'm observing um of a lot of US citizens is this quality of life versus what what I have to pay to be here."

"Yeah."

"The idea that I'm in the richest and most wealthy and most developed country in the world, right? And it's just like kind of just grappling in real time this dissonance that they're trying to wrestle with. And I don't even think consciously they're even thinking that way. I think it's just it's the way I'm seeing it. It's way I'm describing. I don't think they're consciously thinking in those terms. But I think that's is what what's happening. That's like the forces that bring a lot of conflict to a lot of people internally in terms of how they're feeling, even their mental state just daytoday living there and working there and working so hard and Yeah. and not and still like struggling and most people still living paycheck to paycheck. Yeah."

"I mean, I think that China I mean, I think we're we're at a point now where, you know, there there was a time, you know, several years ago where China is this copycat nation, right? China can't invent. China just copycats other countries. They they can't invent anything. And there's, you know, there was certainly a time where China was very good at copying other things and they weren't really seen as a as an innovator. And I think that's where when I went was down in Guangjo earlier this week interviewing I interviewed a German expat that had lived there for 20 years in Guangjo. He had a lot of interesting stories to tell. But he said, you know, back 20 years ago, it was all OEM, you know, basically just manufacturing stuff for other for other companies. Basically, you know, we're good at making stuff for you. And I think what has shifted in is there's this been this big initiative of let's become an innovator ourselves. So, for example, we're going to make your, you know, cell phones and computers, but we're also going to make our own and we're going to have different features and different things. And we've seen that how China has tackled the electric vehicle industry. You know, how they've said, look, okay, we're going to invite Tesla in, get you involved in the ecosystem here, but we're also going to be pushing the boundaries and seeing what we can invent here. And there's been there's an interesting story last year where BYYD was actually going to open a factory in Mexico and then decided not to because they were actually scared that being too close to the United States, you know, the US might try to steal some technology. And so you've kind of seen this complete 180° reversal in the span of a few years where, you know, for a long time American was always worried about Chinese stealing their tag and now it's like the Chinese are innovating. They're worried about Americans stealing their tag."

"Isn't Ford like uh dissecting Chinese EV cars? I heard them talking about I think it was Ford."

"Yeah, the CEO of Ford."

"Yeah, they would buy the Chinese EV stars and they're they're trying to reverse engineer. There was a recent video that came out of him doing an interview uh and he actually repeated this previously long time a long time ago. But in this recent one, I forgot which what platform it was on, but yeah, he was talking about how he brings his like top team like executives to China every year and they find they test all the cars and then they ship back the the top 20 or 15 or 20."

"To break it down and really understand. And and he he was basically saying like you're you're ridiculous if you think that China's copying. You're ridiculous to think if China's behind, they are way in the front."

"Yeah. Yeah. He was just like really like straight forward."

"And he also said I mean he just had such positive comments cuz he said, you know, I personally drive this SUV back in the US."

"Oh, the SU7 Xiaomi."

"Yeah. The Xiaomi the Xiaomi SU7. So he's like, I I drive that and I've been driving it for 6 months. I absolutely love it. And so it's it's quite it's very humble for him to say that. Not only that, I mean, but it's great that he speaks the truth, but it also just I mean, you can't ask for a better endorsement than, okay, the Ford CEO literally went through the trouble of of importing our car across the ocean to Detroit, and that's what he personally drives around the streets of Detroit."

"And he literally said, I'm breaking it down to understand the technology behind it, which is what this it's equivalent to stealing as well in in a sense."

"But it's almost too crazy to believe that the Ford CEO is driving a Xiaomi 7 around in America. Like I mean it's just so that's so crazy."

"It's It is crazy. It is crazy."

"But he can say that because they don't sell Xiaomi in the States. So it's not as you know."

"It it is. But I mean imagine like pulling up to pulling up to somewhere and it's like hey man, nice uh nice ride you got. He's like thank you. He's like hey what do you do? I like I'm the CEO of Ford. I mean what a what a what a funny situation that could be. That's where where I would like to see this relationship go in the future. For example, I'd love to see BYD enter into the United States market. Um, but let's do it with a joint venture, right? Let's do it with a joint venture with a GM or with a Ford and just say, 'Look, um, very similar to the to how US companies come into China, right? We do JVs 51/49%. Why don't you, you know, why doesn't GM? We're going to do a partnership with BYD. We're going to build a factory here in Michigan. We'll um employ all Americans here and, you know, BYD, you can get 49%, we'll keep 51%, it'll be a new joint venture, new company, and then we'll sell it at a price point that doesn't destroy the US market.' That's the big issue is that we ban them because, you know, if if they came in at at that price point of what is it, $14,000 for, you know, an entry level BYD, you know, that would crush the domestic market in the United States."

"Well, isn't that why they set in the EU like a like a absolute lowest price, like a price protection there. You can't go below certain price."

"So weird if you really think about it."

"It is weird. It is weird. But I do."

"Well, you'd be angry as a consumer because like you're artificially making me pay more to protect kind of the industry, I guess. But from an individual level, it's like, 'Oh, I want to I don't why why why am I paying more now?'"

"But that is that is essentially the whole tariff game, though, right? That's what we're that's where we're at. But I mean, that's what I meant is that but even at that inflated level, it'll still be a bargain and it'll still be a benefit to US consumers. So, it's kind of it's a triple win, right? Because America can win by this new joint venture. BYD gets access to the US market and then US consumers get access to the world's best EV and the technology coming from China. So again, that that's kind of where I would like to see the USChina relationship go is how do."

We do more deals like that. I don't want to have all these cheap EVs come in and and completely gut the the auto industry because I mean, you know, we we do need it, but but it's also recognizing the the same thing. Look at Volkswagen. Volkswagen said Xiaomi is so great with these cars and what they're doing. um, you know, we're going, oh, I'm sorry, not Xiaomi, uh Xpong Xiaoong, that we're going to invest €700 million to get a 10% you know, 10, we're going to acquire 10% of the company so that we can get access to that technology and use that in future Volkswagen cars. And we realize China's the future, so why don't we buy a part of it, right? We can we can take 700 million euros and buy 10% of your company and then we're going to benefit because you, you're going up. So I think, you know, you have one of two options. I mean, we can pretend that, you know, that China's not developing and that China's not the future and then we can just say, "Hey, we're ahead and just lie to ourselves." Or we can say, "Look, China's inventing some pretty cool stuff. We better let's partner with them. Let's benefit ourselves. Let's do it together."

But let's talk a little bit about that. You see a lot of stuff happening now where where um things that are derived from China like uh uh cultural elements, uh films, uh uh games. You, you know, I think I think 2025 has been a really great year for China because there's been a lot of soft power wins. Yeah.

And I'm going to go back to the very beginning with you. You know, Justin, you mentioned the Tik Tok refugees, you know, being able to, you know, see, you know, you know, and and basically, you know, there's this ban of Tik Tok that's going to come. Okay. Well, then they went to Xiaoong Shu, Little Red Note, to really see what's happening in China. That was a big South Power win for China. You saw the the other thing was really DeepSee coming out and and and, you know, I mean, it was amazing because you saw this incredible, you know, there was this amazing video clip of Sam Alman and OpenAI and he, and so he's he's speaking at an event. I believe it's an Indian entrepreneur. He says, you know, Sam, what would you, what would you give for advice if if there's some another company that wants to develop and and you know, try to emulate what you guys are doing? You know, what kind of advice would you give if we want to enter into this market? And he's just very arrogantly is just like, no advice, like you got no chance. Like we're so far ahead, like like good luck. I mean, he was just so arrogant and so over the top, like it was, and the and the Indian uh entrepreneur was just very humble. He just kind of smiled and just kind of like, you know, kind of took it. But I just thought I was like, man, this guy is so cocky and arrogant.

Was this before Deep Seek?

This was before this was before Deep Seek. This is before Deep Seek. And but he basically said he's like, "No one can touch us. No one's doing what we're doing." You know, it's it's over. Like.

And that was also when the like like MSM outlets, mainstream media would be saying that China is about 1 to two years behind America.

Time kept changing. It was like a few years behind to like a few months behind, but it was always behind.

Yeah, it was always behind. But it was it was a very behind, like a one to two years. People like, don't worry, that was around like one or two years behind us. Yeah. Yeah.

And then Deep Seek comes out and it's like, yeah, we built Deep Seek on a budget of $5, $6 million. We've we've been able to um, you know, you know, completely do it's actually testing at a level that's higher than your Open AI. And so all of a sudden, you know, this, this is what I want people to really understand. All of the anti-China propaganda actually hurts Western countries more than it does China. And that is something that I think more Western audiences really need to understand because what happens is, and we've seen that play out exactly with Deep Seek. All of a sudden, you know, we're told every day in the media that China's collapsing, China has no future, China can't innovate. They're a copycat nation. And then all of a sudden, they make something like Deep Seek. And then everybody in the West is like, "Wait, what what happened? I thought they were behind. I thought they, I thought they're not doing good. How, how could they, how could they do that?" So the, you know, the anti-China propaganda doesn't hurt China because, you know, we're living in China. We're we're here on the ground. We're seeing it firsthand.

Exactly.

In a way, it helps China because it kind of provides cover for them. Like, don't look over here. Don't look at what we're doing. Don't pay attention over here.

Absolutely. So, I think that's a big thing I want people to understand is that, you know, you can lie to yourself and you can say that China's collapsing and that, you know, I mean, I I've seen some ridiculous YouTube videos out there where it's just like that whole military coup thing that was narrative that came out a while ago. You know, there's a military coup that's going to happen. You know, I I saw, I mean, it just gets it just gets more and more hilarious. And I and I said, you, you have to get beyond the simple fact of that. Okay, in America, we get to vote for president. That doesn't mean we're better. It doesn't mean that that like, okay, I casted a vote last November. Did my did my quality of life improve? I mean, is it is it substantially different? I mean, I I to be honest, I mean, in my whole community in Las Vegas, everyone was pretty upset the fact that we had Trump and Kamla and they were like, this is, you know, every year is the same crap, a decision between bad and bad, every four years, it's elect and regret. I mean, I didn't really see a lot of people enthusiastically going to the voting box and the numbers reflected that. I mean, there's still a large portion of Americans that don't vote. So I mean, you know, we kind of live in this bubble where democracy is everything and voting for your president means everything. Yeah, it's a form of government. Is it the best form of government? No, I'm not convinced it is. U that's not me saying that I'm anti-democratic, nor am I saying that the communist way or China, Chinese, you know, socialism with Chinese characteristics or or any kind of government. I think what my main message as well is is that the world is too unique and too diverse for only one form of government to exist. And and somehow we think that if China, if Chinese people could vote for their president, everybody's problems would be solved and everything would be so much better. And I don't think it would. I really don't think it would. And so again, and that's not and that's actually not up for me to decide because I'm not a Chinese citizen. This isn't my country. I'm a guest in this country. I'll always be a guest in this country. So I'm kind of like, let China figure out what China needs to do, you know? And and from the American perspective, my other issue is is that if we really think that China's government is bad and it's going to fail, then why don't we just let them fail, right? Like, right? I mean, just let them be then. I mean, but but you know, the problem is is that it's not failing and that it's continuing to grow and it's continuing to.

That's how you know when someone's doing something right is when their enemies get angry.

Yeah.

And the more they talk, the more they're chirping. Yeah. The more you know they're doing something right.

And and I mean, that that's why if you watch my videos, I I really love to use facts. And that's not not a belief, a fact, but like an actual fact. And I mean, there's a great survey earlier this year, the Alliance of Democracies, which is a think tank based in Denmark, went out and did a survey amongst 110,000 people amongst 110 countries around the world. That's a very substantial survey. 110 individual countries, 110,000 people. They found that across this very, very wide spectrum, 110 countries, 79% of people around the world have a higher impression of China than America right now. And and so and so again, like I'll use that in a video and it's like, well, why are you being anti-America? I'm like, I'm actually being very pro America because I'm concerned. I mean, when you have that large, I mean, we're not talking 5149, right? It's not like I mean, and even that would be a concern, right, that you'd have a majority.

That close. Yeah. You know, but it's it's like it's not even close. We're talking 79%. That's a massive gap. And you look at what's happened in the United States and you look at our political system and you look at the wars that we're contributing to. There's many, many reasons that this is happening. This is not one factor. This is many multitude of reasons. We look at why the BRICS organization is gaining steam. Why are many countries wanting to evade the US dollar for trade? You know, there these are all of these stories are happening around the world. And that's why you have to get outside of that American bubble. And hence why I say the anti-China propaganda really hurts American citizens more than it does Chinese citizens cuz Chinese citizens are here. They're living their life. They're doing their thing and they're doing they're trying to move forward the best way that they can. Yes, China has economic challenges. I don't think the United States is without its economic challenges right now. I mean, we're moving towards a recession. I mean, prices are sky-high. I mean, there's many Americans that are, you know, can't afford housing, can't afford this, you know, safety levels are not not anywhere where they need to be. So I mean, every country's got to figure out what they've got to do to improve their society. You know, I I I gave a TED talk a couple years ago where, you know, they had asked me to, you know, what are some of like the top five lessons you've learned from your years in China? So I was thinking about all right, let me let me come up with five lessons I've learned. Learned a lot, uh, but let me just kind of with the top five. But one of them was family and the importance of family. And it was a very interesting thing because in China, you know, you're you're always taught, you like how you just described it perfectly. You have this, this family is your kind of your backup plan and it's also that, you know, you're you're a unit. And I think that's that's how, and actually, if you actually really know about Chinese culture, you know, for example, in these small villages, um, you know, there's there's kind of like a local government that works in the small village, you know, so we're talking like really small villages, you know, you would actually have the villagers come together and they would actually like democratically elect like a chief. And so that chief would be responsible for the for the benefit of the entire village. And so there's this, you know, if if one of the one of the people in the village had cancer and they needed treatment, you know, the village would come together and raise money so that he could go to the hospital and get that treatment. You know, you're not going to be able to fall because you've got the village there to support you. So, this is very, you know, kind of going back thousands of years in Chinese history on how that worked. And now fast forward to today where again, you have your family dynamic where it's not uncommon where, you know, a husband and wife want to come together, the two grandparents come together, they all put money together, build a house because they, you know, or fund a house that way they can start a new family and grandkids and all of that. So this is a very different dynamic than we know in the United States where very much it's, you know, you're 18 years old, you're an adult, off you go.

There's the front door.

There's the front door. And and I I like to tell this story because I find it really very fascinating. So when I moved to China in 2007, I, you know, would only come back to the US once a year. And, you know, my my grandmother, my father's on my father's side, she was getting older. And I said, you know what, every year I come back, I, she, I need to go to Iowa to go visit my grandma, you know, because I don't know how much longer she's going to be there. So what was interesting is is that she has 20 grandkids and I was the only one that came to visit her every year. And it was that it was kind of that interesting dynamic because I I guarantee if I lived in Florida, I probably wouldn't have gone back once a year. Because you're just, you don't think about it. You don't think about it. You in the same state and you're like, "Oh, grandma's getting old. You should probably go visit her." Like, "Yeah, yeah." Like, "Yeah, maybe next year."

Maybe next year. Yeah. I'm just kind of busy. You're like, "Oh, yeah. Maybe you'll look in the fall or something like that." But because I lived in China and I only had one trip a year, I just said, "You know what I'll do? I'm just going to prioritize it. I'm, you know, before I go back to my family in Florida, I'm just going to fly into Minnesota, rent a car, and I'm going to drive down to Iowa. I'm going to go see my grandma." And so I said, you know, that was such a great time because I did it three years in a row and then she passed. So I I only I only did it for 3 years before she passed away. Um, but I had some great memories with her and it, you know, it was really great. For example, we'd go back and her favorite thing was to watch the cooking channel. So I would literally just sit there and we just chat and on the couch and we'd watch the cooking network for like eight hours straight.

Sounds nice.

It was great. But it was just I'd tell her stories about China. She'd tell me stories about the farm. She'd tell me stories about my dad. you know, she would, you know, she we would order some food, you know. Um, I mean, it was just a really it was a great time. Like I have these amazing memories with my grandma. So when she actually passed, I didn't go back to the funeral and but that's when all my cousins went because they're like, "Well, we haven't seen grandma." I'm like, "Well, you guys went for the funeral. I went I went for to go see her." So I actually I I'm not going to go to the funeral because I've already like paid my respects and I've already saw that. But that I learned from China, you know, that I specifically learned that because I was very inspired by, you know, at the time. I remember the high-speed rail back in '07, '08 was not developed. So I remember my colleagues in Shanghai would be like, "Yeah, I'm going back to like, you know, Sichuan province, you know, taking like a 45-hour train." And I'm like, "45-hour train? What?" You know, and they're like, "Yeah, like I haven't been home in 51 weeks. I'm going to go back. It's going to take me two days to get there. I'll have like three days on the ground, then two days to get back to Shanghai. That's my holiday for the year." And I'm like, "That's wild, man." Like, but it's like, yeah, family's family is everything. So, you know, I think there's there's um there's always there's always lessons to learn. And I think that's the biggest thing from us being expats in China, from us traveling the world. And, you know, again, I, you know, a lot of times people ask me a very common question in the US would be, you know, Cyrus, what's, what's China like? And I I always try to simplify it because I'm like, you know, China's a lot more normal than you probably think. You know, it's it's no different. Like people are recording a podcast on a random, you know, Saturday afternoon. people are going to, you know, like I I went and I grabbed food at the Italian restaurant just outside the place here. You know, all these Chinese couples there on a Saturday afternoon, you know, this, there's this lovely couple right next to me. I was listening to their conversation like, "Hey, you want to go to movie tonight? What should we do? Should we go over to our friend's house? Like, um, I haven't seen them in a while. It'd be fun to go over there." So, I mean, it's like Chinese people are doing the same thing that we're doing, right? I mean, Chinese people want the same thing that we want, right? I mean, if they had kids, you know, they're wanting them to go to a good school and hopefully grow up and get a good job and live a better life. So, I think that's where I really want to focus more on this people-to-people diplomacy because I think if we, you know, our governments will never see eye to eye, right? The United States is going to be the US, China's going to be China. I'm not here to tell China how to run their government, but what I want is I want to see more people learning to work together and interacting because, you know, I've every single American person that comes here and actually talks to Chinese people, they're blown away. It's like, man, they're so friendly. The society is great. Like there's a lot of, you know, I tell you an interesting comment. I I did a vlog where I was walking around Chongqing and I I saw this about probably about many comments, dozens of comments. It's like, you know what's most interesting, Cyrus? The society looks really healthy there, right? Like like people walking around are healthy. Like like he's like, I don't know if you noticed this, but at at at minute 13:25, there's two girls behind you like giving a high five and giggling because they wanted to be in your video. And they're just like they're it's like I would have never imagined China to be that happy. I kind of had this impression that Chinese people are.

Heads down, heads down, depressed.

And I'm like, Chinese people are happy, man. Like they're on social media, they're watching movies, they're listening to their favorite songs, you know, they're, you know.

And there's a lot of unhappy ones, too. Just like in any normal society, you have happy people and unhappy people. So yeah, I just I just think it's um, you know, again, I just my message is just be curious, go explore and go see.

Even even just extending a little bit about what we're just talking about in terms of um society, how familial everybody is, how important the importance of family is. It's one of those things that I believe that you can hear about it, listen to it, and think and even repeat. Yeah. Oh, China is a very family-based society. But you don't really understand what it really means until like you have lived here. Yeah.

Talking and being around with locals. You can kind of feel that, right? And that is it's it's very different than just reading about it or hearing about it because the reason why I'm saying this is because you always go back to the idea of freedom and individual life versus uh uh societal life, like the the your role in society versus your role for yourself. And people always talk about how those differences in American values and Chinese values are. And and I'm here to say that yeah, there are they are different. And that is you don't understand how different it is. I know you you're pro you're promoting similarities, but you have to understand those differences. And because of those differences, if you can understand those, then you will understand why freedom actually is on both sides, you know, and you have happiness on both sides.

You know what I mean?

Yeah. You have to understand the nuance between both two and then you can come come in a little bit more with your own opinion. Right.

I I think I think the key word you said there how was nuance. And and I think the another message I want people to understand is that if you look at China from the American lens, it will never make sense to you. Much like if you look at America from the Chinese lens, it doesn't make sense. And so that's you only will understand it if you really live here and understand it and feel it. And the and the simplest example I can say is, you know, in my community in America, very Republican, all love the Second Amendment, all have guns. And and that and they've said, it's like, Cyrus, like, you know, did you ever feel unsafe being in China? Like, I know that government doesn't like to have guns. And I'm like, actually, it's the complete opposite because there is no guns. I feel extremely safe, you know?

But that's that's such a wild way to look at it, right?

But that's such a typical American way. Like if that's a very hardcore Republican way to look at it because it because in their.

It's so wild to me. like you would feel less safe by having no guns.

It It's wild because you've been in China a long time, right? But but so I'm trying so again, I'm trying to put you into a, you know, born and raised in Las Vegas Republican, you know, loves his guns, you know, and so that their mindset is is like guns equal freedom. Guns equal, hey, I get to control like the government fears me because, you know, because we're we're we're armed, right? That's why we have the Second Amendment. So again, if you look at it like if you tell this to a Chinese person, they're like, that makes absolutely zero sense to me. And I'm like, you're right. I can understand why he's saying that because I understand where he's coming from. That's what I mean. You can't look at, you know, you cannot look at China from an American lens. You can't just say, "Well, China's not good because people can't vote for their for their leader." In their mind, like, I don't care what the United States says. All I can see is like, what's happening to my life right now?

Yeah.

Right. And that's where, you know, you guys have probably heard of that Harvard study where they did this 10-year study and they it just seemed like go through all of these villages and stuff and you realize that, you know, the Chinese party, you know, the the Chinese government is actually genuinely popular amongst the majority of Chinese people. And, you know, the caveat to that would be, you know, I think a lot of very ultra wealthy people would not be a big fan of the government. You know, because, you know, in China, you can't be this very over-the-top, you know, you know, cow, you know, kind of guy. You have to be D, right? You got to be D. They crack down the hardest.

That's why they crack down the hardest, right? So, you know.

I think America could use a little bit of that right now, right?

Well, that I mean, and that and that's why you see like, you know, that like people people will ask me, you know, another common question I get is, you know, if China is so great, then why do all these people from, you know, from China with money, why do they come to the United States? I said, oh, it's very simple. If you've got money, there's no other place, there's no better place in the world to live than the United States, especially for Chinese. If you have a lot of money, you can control the system, right? You can take your kids, you can put them into the best schools, you can live in the best neighborhoods, you can do everything you want to do and you can get a head start on life. And that's not necessarily true in China because China, we want to take care of the whole society, right? And there was this there was a really interesting case study where in Shenzhen, there was this amazing teacher, like top 10 teacher in the in China. And basically the government, um, you know, what happened was is there was a a boom of real estate around that school because everyone's like, "Hey, we need to get our kids in that school so that they can learn from that teacher because she was so advanced at whatever she was teaching." It became very famous online. So the government's like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, we don't like seeing that people are moving to that area because they're pricing out others." The real estate started to get up, but of course, everybody with money is like, "Well, no worries. I can pay for it." But then all of a sudden, the people that can't get in there, they they can't get access to that teacher. So what did the Chinese government do? They pulled that teacher out, said, "You're now going to teach online so that every student in Shenzhen gets access to you because we want the society to improve." That's a very Chinese thing. And so again, that's an issue. That's an issue like if you if you have money, you don't like that because why? Because if I have money, I should be able to pay to get ahead.

Well, because your privileges decrease that.

My privileges decrease, right? But it's that common prosperity, right? Tide all boats, the yachts. It's like, I can't, I should be able to pay for privilege.

Why am I not getting ahead?

Why am I not getting ahead? Whereas we know in the United States, it's like, hey, you want to get to Harvard, write a check.

Money.

Money. You want to live in the most exclusive neighborhood, you want to get to the most exclusive prep school to get you into Harvard, check, check, check, check, pay to play. And and that's how the system works. But going back to this whole idea of like, you know, the the similarities actually between let's say China and US in terms of the people and the and what they actually want at the end of the day is strikingly similar, right? Because we we talk about these things and these concepts in China and it's almost it's very similar to things that let's let's say Bernie Sanders would talk about, right? Obviously, they would never associate that with anything Chinese over there politically. But if you look at Bernie Sanders and the kind of support and popularity he has for his ideas. If you look at uh the new uh New York City mayoral candidate, Zoron or whatever, the things he's talking about, a lot of things are strikingly like Chinese, like what they're talking about. It's like it's like that's kind of what we're doing here in many ways.

For sure. For sure.

But obviously, you know, they they don't they're not going to say that over there. Um, nor are they going to think that.

But it's this idea that we're actually at the end of the day, we're all kind of chasing the same things. And what we get caught up on is we quibble about the processes to get there. And I I love what you said is that we can't look at America through a Chinese lens and we can't look at China through an American lens. That's so true.

The problem with that is we only know what we know, right? People only know what they know. And so our lenses are shaped for us by our experiences.

And that's just it. And that's the only thing we can look through.

And I think that's why the when we talk about your lenses are shaped through your experiences. Hence why you need to go travel the world. You have to come here to experience it. And so next summer, we actually have several families from our community that have said, "Hey, we really want to go to China." Like we would feel comfortable going with you because we just the language barrier, just the unfamiliarity, but we're just like, because my wife posts every day on on Instagram, you know, the stories and and and it's just like, wow, I would have never imagined China was so clean. Can't imagine the food looks like that. Can't imagine the indoor playgrounds for the kids are that clean. And so we're like, yeah, like China again, like you need you should come experience it. you know, it's it's going to be very different than what your perceptions are and you're going to have a great time. And and I think it's um again, I think there's a lot of these soft power wins. But you know, why is the Zorhan, you know, popular in New York City? Is because he's preaching a lot of the things that China has done well where it's this society, you know, for example, earlier this week, type 1 diabetes cured. But there was a case where a 25-year-old woman with type 1 diabetes was cured. And it, you know, by this team of Chinese scientists. And it's great. And then all of a sudden in the US, there's an article from uh from Goldman Sachs, "Questions: Is Curing Patients a Sustainable Business Model?"

Yeah.

And I mean, and that.

Paid for by big pharma.

You know, and and and that and that to me, it just kind of sums up the United States right now. So I mean, we love our country. There's many great aspects about it, but unfortunately, this this, you know, ultra capitalist, uh mentality that that really, you would never see, you would never see a headline that in China like that would just be so far out. People would be like, "What are you talking about?" Like, you know, curing diseases benefits the society.

Well, well, the article you're referring to, what was their argument for why it wouldn't benefit society?

No, the article was, is it a sustainable business model?

Oh. Oh, okay.

So, it's not because.

Not not for them.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that that's that's the issue because I mean, in America, we don't have a healthcare system. We have a healthcare industry.

Yeah.

And that's the difference.

Healthcare business.

It's a business. It's a business. And that's why I say, you know, America, everything in America is is based on it's a business.

So is education.

Yeah. I mean, everything everything is. So I mean, again, there's there's many great aspects of the US. And I think it's I mean, there's, you know, this is a reason why it's still a very attractive place for many people to come, you know, and there's still great opportunities in America, you know, if you want to come and hustle and work hard. I mean, that American dream is still very much alive. And I think it's it's harder to chase, but it's that chase that's always there, you know, and so I think people, you know, there's always there's always a hope there. And so I think that, you know, but I I I do see a lot of a lot of the youth in America though are becoming much more open to this kind of socialist idea and they're starting to see some of these benefits from China where you look at a country with 95% of the people here are covered by basic healthcare. You know, that's a stark contrast to what we have in the United States. So again, I think that's why that's why I mean the youth, you know, under the age of 30, you're on TikTok, you're watching videos on China, you're saying, "Wow, this is very different than what I've been told and I'm open to it." So I think that's that's where I think China is winning in the long term as far as the soft power. Again, I go back to that that uh Alliance of Democracies study with 79% of the world now having a higher opinion of the United of China over the United States. I think that should be a wakeup call, but I mean it's it's it's a it's a tougher reflection. And I think when you look at I know we haven't mentioned Trump at all on this podcast, but I I continue to see, you know, his actions on the international stage and how it affects our relationship with the world. I have a close friend of mine from Norway and he had said, you know, Cyrus, no one in our circle is going to the United States. Like, you know, it's like summer holidays are coming. As you know, Europeans all have massive summer breaks. And it's like no one in in Scandinavia is even considering going to US. Anywhere but.

Is that more of a political sentiment or is it because of like the whole immigration raids going on like what what?

Oh, it's definitely the tariffs and just the just just Trump. It's just it's 100% that go.

It's kind of like a boycott.

It's a boycott. Okay. Though I I think it's a tough time for many Americans um regardless of their political affiliation to make heads or tails in terms of what are the what's the reality of the the consequences or the benefits of any of these moves that are being made whether we're talking about tariffs whether we're talking about immigration whether we're talking about healthcare whether, you know, any of these political decisions or manufacturing, right? Like you're caught in the middle for most people of what do I what do I believe here? Like what is the real thing? Because there's so many so many there's so much conflicting information.

Yeah. And so it's just sad to kind of see people, especially Americans, kind of coping with what is reality for them. And even that word reality is like kind of up in the air and it's like ambiguous. And no one knows what to really believe. And everyone's aware like that things are like a lot of things are lies and kind of can't be true and this and that. And I mean, just look at the even just like the Epstein files. It's like it's like like no one knows. Like it's just everyone is just in this world of like skepticism and hesitancy and but like still like hardcore believing in what they believe and picking sides. Yeah. It's it's pretty crazy.

Yeah.

What's it like on the ground for you?

Well, I'm going to bring you back another statistic and I love bringing up these polls and these surveys because I think they really bring a lot of credibility here. But there was a USA Today poll that I'm going to start off with one that said like what do Americans feel about interracial marriage?

Okay.

In 2020. This was last year, 2024. So they said 96% of Americans are accepting of interracial marriage. Like fantastic.

That's a lot.

That's a lot, right? Like that's good.

No surprise there.

No, no surprise. I mean, we're we're very mixed. I mean, very common to see interracial marriage in America now, right? I mean, it's not the '50s and '60s anymore, right? So, I mean, but that that just shows you how society has progressed over the last 60, 70 years, right? Whereas, you know, again, 70 years ago, interracial marriage was very taboo. So we're at a point now where 96% of uh people in America are accepting of interracial marriage. Great. Interparty marriage, both for Republicans, like 70% against, and for Democrats, like 68%. So you basically have a point now in society where for Republicans and Democrats, both sides, almost 70% are like, you can basically marry any type of person you want. They just better be of the same political party.

That's the difference maker. And so I think what you're you have a very divided nation. you know, we are not the United States of America. We are very much divided. And you really fit in in in, you know, you're it's it's kind of tough because I think there's three pools really. You know, you have one that is like your hardcore Republican, your hardcore liberal, or you're kind of stuck in the middle and you don't really like either of them. I'm kind of that third option where I'm just like, gosh, you know, there's aspects I like from both sides of the party, but I I I can't really say I'm fully on board with either of them. Um, and I think, you know, what's what's problem is is that's that's another contrast that I see with China, whereas you do have a much more united country. You know, it is a country that is united and moving forward in one direction, which I do think is a much more positive thing because you have that stability with the government. And, you know, it is it is just so it's so confusing because, you know, when you have these tariffs and it's, you know, one day the tariffs are on, the next day they're off, then they're back on, then we're doing 90 days, then they're an extension, but now they're off. I mean, it's just how do you do business? How do you move forward? You know, I mean, it's it becomes very, very complicated. You know, most companies in the US have said, "We're not giving guidance this year because it's too confusing because I mean, because literally, if the tariffs come in, then we're going to get hit by this massive thing. It's going to completely screw up our estimates and then, you know, we can't we can't forecast correctly how we're going to do that." So.

Every decision becomes a liability now.

Absolutely. And that's and that so I think, you know, you're wanting to make decisions and and and I think the other thing is is, you know, let's just say, you know, let's just say that we're all executives at Nike. Okay. Okay, we're on the top. We're we're the board of Nike. And Donald Trump has said, "Unless you build factories in America, you know, we're going to tariff you at whatever percentage." So, you know, we can we can amongst ourselves, we can say, "All right, well, what do we do, guys? You know, should we invest hundreds of millions of dollars and start building factories all up down the West Coast? I mean, our our headquarters is in Portland, so I guess maybe we start there. Let's build a massive, you know, hundred million dollar Nike factory to build shoes here in America." Um, you know, we can we can, you know, we can say that, but we also know this is that by the time we get the permitting done, the the the get all of the logistics done for that, it's probably going to be about two, two years. You know, so by that time, Trump's probably going to be done, right? And we know these policies will get reversed. So, you kind of have to play this game where it's just like, you know, I I give it a great example. I think Apple, you know, they said, you know what we're going to do? We're going to manufacture all of the US iPhones in India.

Right.

So you have this big announcement and basically Trump can now say that, hey, look at this, guys.

Making America great again.

Making America great again. I don't know how because I mean, India last time I checked, India is not America. You know, we're not it's not like we're manufacturing those in the United States. But but it's a win for Trump. He can say it's a win. Now for Apple, they can just say that and just say, okay, yeah, we're going to look into it. But I mean, think about the logistics of actually building factories there, doing that. Then all of a sudden, I mean, we know the quality in India is nowhere near what it is in China. Hence why they haven't already gone there. And so then now there's all these reports that all of these things are falling through. But it's kind of like we can we can basically commit to this on paper. So even Nike, let's just say we're like, you know what we're going to do? We're going to let's just go ahead and announce it. Let's just say, look, we're going to build a new factory. It's going to open up by 2032. It's going to be amazing. Make America great again. And then we can maybe put together a plan and and maybe do some research on this. But we kind of know deep down inside within a few years Trump's going to be gone. This policy is going to be reversed.

Yeah, we drag our feet a little bit.

We're just dragging our feet. We're just dragging our feet. And that's that's the issue is like we're we're actually slowing down business, right? And and we're actually affecting Nike's ability to make the best shoes in the world and actually operate as a successful company. I mean, let's be honest, do Americans going to be want to work in a Portland factory putting shoes together? Americans don't want to do that job. Even Chinese don't want to do that job anymore, you know? I mean, that that's the issue is I mean, even in China, you know, China is not the cheap place to manufacture anymore, you know. That's that's the issue. I mean, you know, the other thing is is that there was an amazing tweet that that went viral and I I saved it, but it was basically this American entrepreneur. What he does is he manufactures showerheads. And he said, you know, we manufacture our showerheads. We have a big website, tons of traffic. We get a lot of people ordering directly from our website. Here's the interesting case study. I manufacture my products in China. We sell them for, you know, high-end shower head $59.99. Okay, boom. There's our cost on our website. So what I did is I went out and I found a local American manufacturer. We got the US steel, proudly made in the US. Boom, boom, boom. Um, you know, by the time we add in all the cost and everything, you know, my my sale price is going to be around $119. So massive price difference. What we did is we did an AB test. Okay, so anyways, we launched this massive sale. We said, "Guys, guess what? We've got big holiday sale coming up. I think it was Memorial Day. We got Memorial Day sale. Get these amazing showerheads." Now they got a big established customer base already. So they put it out there and they said, "Look, we already, you guys know we manufacture in China, but guess what? We got the USA made. Got the eagle on there, American flag, USA steel. Woohoo." You know, all USA made. We sold 5,375 showerheads over the weekend. Guess how many consumers bought the American version out of 5,375?

Like five? No, I'm kidding.

I don't know. Uh, 15, 20, I don't know.

Zero. Not a single sale.

And and not a single sale. And and so that that was an incredible piece of data because basically he said, everybody wants to buy in America until it comes down to the price point.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's and that's the difference. So you can be as patri and and the difference is is that if it was probably $10 more. Hey, this one made in China is $59.99. And guess what? Our USA steel one is $69.99. I guarantee you it would have been a lot more. Closer. It would have been closer. Maybe maybe even a thousand. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe it would have been 50/50. Maybe it would have been more American. It would have been closer. But when the price point is so ridiculous, which double the price.

It just has to be. And the other thing is is that the quality is the same. So it's not like you're buying inferior products from China. It's like, geez, this thing is as good as the other one. It's just this one's made in America. You know, I mean, I mean, people, you know, people sometimes get a little bit too nostalgic, you know, like wouldn't it be great though? Like back in the day, you know, you know, we had all these factories and everyone's working here, like we should just make everything here, you know, like our refrigerators, our microwaves, our everything. We should just we should rely on nobody. I'm like, why are we going back to the 1900s, you know, like, you know, the 1800s, you know, where you have to make everything on yourself, you know, like.

Anyway, Cyrus, thank you so much for coming here.

What a chat today, gentlemen. Thank you so much. That was fantastic. You always always enjoy. Third time on the podcast. What a what an amazing time. Thank you so much.

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China vs America in 2026: What You’re NOT Being Told

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