Transcription
It's God. It's God. It's God the Israel. First, I want to thank everybody for having their patience being out here enduring this rain. Give yourselves a hand. We had to endure the rain. That's Christians and Israelites, atheists, whoever it is. I'm Captain Zario. Good under command of Jenny Hana. Today, um, debate is is Jesus the most high God. Uh, my position is that he's not the most high God. There may be verses that will say that um he's a god or imply that, but there's no verse that's going to say he's the most high God. You can't have a most high god and then he has a god. You cannot present that. So that'll be what I'll be presenting today. Uh, this will end up being a semantic argument. You'll see we'll just be going over verses that my opponent will imply means he's the most high, but it won't say it flat out. So that's what I'm going to present. I yield.
Real quick, uh, before you go, fellas, please don't engage these speakers. Like, don't try to debate them while they debate. You know what I'm saying? So, you could you could scream, you could say that, you could do whatever. You can clap. You can clap and do all of that. But don't try to engage. You know what I'm saying? Let don't try to engage. Let them debate. All right? You can debate them afterwards if you like. Okay?
Yeah. Michael Jones. I run Inspiring Philosophy, a YouTube ministry. Uh, my position is Jesus is the most high God in terms of something. Right. Right. Hold up. Hold on. All right. Now listen up. This is the important. We are trinitarians as Christians. We believe there is one God who is three persons. The father, the father is the source for the son and the spirit. But the spirit and the son share in the divine essence or substance. Therefore making them the exact imprint of the father. Especially Jesus. Hebrews 1:3 says that. So Jesus is the most high God in terms of substance. What I expect my opponent to do is go to verses where it talks about him being subordinate role. Subordinate role. We refer to that to the economic structure of the trinity, not the autological structure of the trinity because in the onlogical structure of the trinity, Jesus is fully and totally God. Therefore, he is the most high God. And so I expect we'll go through some of those verses and look into them. But we have to make sure when we look at those verses, are they talking about role or ontology? I will argue those are in ontology. And there are explicit places where Jesus does claim he is Yahweh, who is the most high God. Yeah.
All right, you guys. So, as soon as either of you guys start talking, I'm going to press that start and I'll stop you guys. Uh, I'll give you guys a a 30 minute warning and then after that, you guys got All right. Captain, appreciate you being here. Likewise. Appreciate it. Uh, so is Yahweh the most high God? Yes. Yes. Who led Israel out of Egypt? Moses. Moses. By who? By the most high. By the most high. Yeah. Hosea 12:13. Yahweh let him out. So, definitely. There we go. What's Jude say? When you think about that, right, in Exodus 7:1, God called Moses God, right? Called him Elohim. Did he call him Elohim? I'm fine with that. But he called him when we read it in English, he called him God, right? Yes. We want to be I want to be clear about something though. The word Elohim doesn't properly translate to God because when Samuel is dead, the necromancer uh brings up the the body of Samuel from Shiloh and he says, "I see Elohim coming up." So scholars like Michael Heiser will say the word Elohim much broader meaning. It refers to anything in the spiritual realm, demons, angels, God of the word, right? It means judges, ruler, angels, possibly there's debate, messenger. So, it's really up to the translator that changes it. But God does call Moses God. When we read it, the translators chose the word God. Correct. That's not my argument, though. But we're talking it goes back to Hosea 12:13 Yahweh specifically led them out. Right. So, and the reason why that's important because that represents the agency. For example, in first Chronicles, who uh forced David to number the people, Satan or the most high? Depends on actually it was God technically but the way that works though Chronicles it says Satan right well here's the thing though pastor yes or no does it say Satan it says that but you understand Satan the most high no can I respond can I respond now yes so in the ancient world in the ancient world they would attribute God things that he only passively allowed so in 1 Chronicles 10 Saul commits suicide but the last verse of that chapter says God put him to death. So they would So Satan did it, but God allowed it. But then when you say Satan passively, right, and here's where Christians have a struggle because you think Satan rebels against him. The Lord told Satan to do it. No, he didn't. Yes, he did. Just like the Lord told Satan to do that. Where's the verse? I have it in front of me right now. I I just I just happen to have it. I have I have it. I can read it again. I can read it. You ask for the verse, I can read. You got to make sure you got to make sure that this is not just a passive in the cultural context. Let me just read I'm going to read both because you got one verse in Samuel, one verse in Chronicles, both saying the same thing. 1 Chronicles 21:1. And Satan stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel. Right? 2 Samuel 24:1. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against him. So the Lord was angry with David and used Satan. He didn't respond to what I said. Okay. You didn't respond to what I said. You didn't respond to what I said. I did respond to what you said because Satan the most high aspect. Of course not. But is why does one So my question why does 2 Samuel 21 24:1 say the Lord and 21 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 say Satan? I already answered you. I already answered. Answer it again please. I didn't hear you. Because in the ancient cultural context, God when he allowed something, they would use the active verbal. It's not an allowance. The Lord was angry with David and the Lord used Satan to carry out his judgment. Who killed Saul? You tell me. Saul committed suicide. What does that have to do with the most according to your logic? Well, let's go back to my argument then. Okay. Okay. So, Yahweh is the most high, right? Yes. Hosea 12:13, right? Right. Okay. So, then in numbers when he sent fiery serpents Mhm. was that from Yahweh? Yes. Everything is from Well, then whoa whoa whoa. First Corinthians 10:9. Bring it out. Do not test Christ as they tested him in the wilderness. And he didn't service. Can I get the verse? You just You just said that was Yahweh Christ. I'm asking I'm just asking for the verse in Corinthians. What? I'm like, you see how I read both verses? Yeah. I'm asking for the verse in Corinthians. All right, let's read the verse. Right. Bring it out. Let's get the Can you call Can you call out the scripture, please? I'll start in um I'll start in verse eight. I'll start verse seven. I'm sorry. Can you just call it out, please? Yeah. First Corinthians. Uh-huh. So, I'll start in I'll start in verse 7, then I'll move my way up. Know what chapter you 1 Corinthians 10:7. All right. 1 Corinthians 10:7. Do not be do not be idoltors as some of them were. As it is written, the people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play. Verse 8, we must not indulge in the sexual immorality as some of them did and the 23,000 fell a single day. Verse N. Uhhuh. We must not put Christ to the test as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents. Now, I don't know if y'all even understand what's happening here before I respond to the verse. What he's admitting is that Christ is a part of the agency of the Most High. Why does it say that? Because what you said, well, we both agree that it was the most high that um called the fiery serpents. Right. Right. If I go by your logic, which I do not, but even if I go by your logic, all you're showing is that the Most High used Christ at that time. If I go by your logic, we got a problem. Wait, let me finish this. Wait, let me just say to the verses say God used him. It says they we do not put this is what we do with Christ. This is what Christian This is what Christians do with Christ. He had no problem understanding Moses was used by the most high to part the Red Sea and do that. Had no problem saying Satan was used by the Most High to provoke David. So it's also the same thing when it comes to Christ being used by the Most High. But I disagree, hold on, but I disagree with your interpretation of that verse. Because when you read 1 Corinthians 10 and 7, I'm going to read 10 and 9. It says, "Neither let us tempt Christ, comma, as some of them also tempted and were destroyed of serpents." What Moses, excuse me, what Paul is doing is just making a comparison. Meaning, let's not be like the Israelites in the past and tempt the most high. Let's not, he's not saying, he is not saying Christ is the most high that caused the serpents to come. That don't even make grammatically. That don't even make sense. It makes perfect grammatical. No, it does not. No, it does not in the Greek. Yeah. No, it does not make sense at all. And I told y'all verbs refer back. I told y'all this was going to be a semantic argument cuz if Christ is the most high based on the fiery serpents, then Satan is the most high because Satan was used by the Most High to number the children of Israel. You can't get around it. Here's the problem. You can't get around it. Here's the problem. If we go to Hosea 12:13, it says you paid the comparison to Moses. God Yahweh led them out by Moses. It doesn't say that in in 1 Corinthians 10. It just says they do not test Christ as some of them did. Refer back to Christ. That is basic grammatical structure in Greek. No, it does not refer back to Christ at all. And anybody with I can't believe you did this. Anybody with basic reading comprehension knows that when it says neither let us tempt Christ, who is that? The people in the city of Corinth. And then he's using an example of people that tempted the most high saying let us not be when it said when it's saying as some of them also tempted because early neither as some of them also tempted and were destroyed of serpents. The most high did the destroying. But now remember this debate is is Christ the most high God? If I go by your logic, you're just telling me that Christ did it because the Most High told him to. Just like Satan did it because the Most High told him to. Just like Moses did it because what we can read in the Bible is that God called Moses God. That's clean plain on the tables. If I read Wait, did he call If I read Exodus 7 If I read Exodus monologue, guys, hold on. If we if I read Exodus 7, when you say monologue, the Bible say, "Let God be true and every man a liar." So, what's the problem? What's the problem with reading the scripture? Do you know what the communication policy is? No, I don't. You can. Listen, I like when when Christ when Christ said, "I'm glad he kept it from the wise and prudent." He does and gave it to babes. I'm just a baby. You can be wise and prudent, but what you can't prove is that Jesus is the most high God. What if he said it? Control it. All right. What language is the New Testament written in? Greek. Greek. Okay. So, we got to look at what words in Greek refer to God. Right. Well, before we do that, we have to understand why Greek was the dominant language first. Greek was the dominant language because it was illegal to be a Jew. It was illegal to be Hebrew because they were helenized. That's why it's written in predominant Greek. So, for example, you can see in 1 Corinthians 8:6 when he calls Jesus Lord, but then you can also read in 1 Peter 3:7 when Abraham is called Lord, they're the same words. But you wouldn't say that Abraham is the Lord that you going to try to make Christ. What y'all try to do, there's a normaly of the Bible, a river that flows through until we get to Christ and then y'all make them magical. Are you done? Listen here. Can I finish? All right. So, so we got to look at words in Greek that refer to the most high. Right. Okay. So, Old Testament written in Hebrew. Go to places like Psalm 109:21, it says Adonai Yahweh. Ezekiel 37:21, it says Adonai Yahweh. That was translated into the Greek Septuagint. What are they translated as? Kyrios, Lord, Lord. Now, here's the problem. Here's the problem. In all the Greek texts from the time of Jesus and prior, no one no one calls themselves Kyrios except one person. Who that? Who that? Jesus. Luke 6:46. He says, "Why do you call me Kyrios and not do what I tell you? Therefore, therefore he is saying I am Adonai Yahweh." No, he's not. If that if that made sense in John 17:3 when he says that thou art the one true God, what you are when listening is an art. And just because I start with a verse don't mean I'm coming back not coming back to your point. That's all I've done. So when Christ is cutting them on their ignorance of the title that they're trying to bestow upon him, Christ never took a title. But so what he's saying is why are you calling me? So what he's saying is if why are you calling me that and you don't do what I do, he's cutting them. That's not him declaring that he's Yahweh. Because John 17:3 when it says that thou art the one true God, who was he talking to when he said, "Thou are the one true God." Back to the verse. Hold on. I need to trust what you said. You said he won't read the verse. When y'all say deal with the verse, he won't read the verse. Let's go back to Luke 46. Can we read the verse? They are calling him. Can we read the verse? Yeah, I can read it for you right now. Luke 6:46. I said I got to memorize. Why do you call me Lord? Do what I say. But I don't trust you. You can. All right. All right. He's calling me a liar. Please read how to memorize. I'm not calling you a liar. But the reason why I wanted like you see how I said my explanation was very clear. I said them calling him that does not mean he accepted that and then and then he cut him by saying if I was that why you don't do what I say return you and your fans then you and your fans decided to say I ran from the scripture so I did answer the whether you disagree or agree I did answer so now we read Luke you said 646 646 got now notice in this verse he accepts what they're calling him and says all Right. You're calling me Lord. Lord Blessed are Hey, wait. Hold on one second. I got it. I got it. Everybody relax. I got it. I got it. Everybody relax. If he's trying to get through, what's the problem? He was pushing me. Who? He was the film. Everybody relax. Huh? I'm sorry. Everybody, can everyone just take a step back? We want to get everyone recording essentials. Hey, I'm going to take a step. If everybody could understand, if everybody could understand, right? The people that are filming have to be everybody. If everybody can shine, which means listen for a second. If I But you're not a part of the filming team. Sis, I'm just trying to explain. I agree. But what I'm saying is if they're filming, just let everybody have the position. I'm not want to go back and sis and brother. I don't want to go back and forth with y'all. I just want to have the debate. Give me a one thing. You can film, but you don't have to film disrespectfully and push people. You can say, "Excuse me, but if he's being pushed because he's standing there." I have it on film. Can we just continue with this? Can every Can we all act civilized? Why? I I know y'all savior getting cut. I know y'all savior getting cut, but let's act civilized. Let's act civilized. So Luke 6 and46 says Luke Luke 6 and 46 I want to and I want to point something out JP I just want to point one thing out somebody's streaming right now on Tik Tok and and they're live on Tik Tok. So if you're live on Tik Tok please end that live again and I want and I want to point something else out and this is how you know who savior is winning and who's losing. JP asked if y'all didn't heckle with saying the verses and stuff like that. Who's doing that? The Christians are the Israelites or not? JP laid the words out and look at God logic getting out of now. Look at him. That's what I do to Christians. I'm good at this. I'm good at this. I got him out of his body. Let's read the Let's read. All right. No sweat. All right. Luke 6 and 46. It says, "And why call me Lord, Lord, and do not the things that I which I say?" Now, can I read a couple of verses above? I want you I want you to read the second one. Read Matthew 7:21. Now, so you don't want me to stay right here. You can read more of it, but I mean, it's the same thing there. Okay. So, you But it's the same account, but a different No, it's another It's another It's another aspect where he's called Lord. Now, now, now, how you do get to do that? Then they say, "Let's stay on this one then. Go for it." cuz I'm trying to see where did they call him lord lord in here where he says they are says they are remember my position is he's cutting them his position is he's saying he's god where in this chapter did they call him lord he says you're calling me lord lord great but you're not doing what I say that's important if you're going to accept my question you got to do what he says can I get an answer to my question where in this chapter did he did they call him Lord for him to say why call me Lord Lord because are you saying Jesus lied? I'm not saying that. I'm asking you to show me right. Now people may wonder well Cat why you want to know that? Because my position is he's cutting them when he said you calling me Lord Lord but you're not doing what I say. You're saying somebody called him Lord. So show me who called them Lord. Otherwise my position is correct. It's crazy. Let's do it. Jesus does not. Can you do it? All you got to do is say yes or no. Somebody call him Lord. Yes or no? Because I trust Jesus. He said so. Where? Do you not understand how this works? Yes, I do. I know that he's cutting this. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Where'd you get the crown? You know what he's saying? Where'd you get the crown? Where'd you get the crown? What does that have to do with this? I was just curious. Where'd you get it? You could never get one. Where'd you get You're talking about the crown cuz you're getting You can never get it. Why are we talking about my hair? Jesus is God. Jesus is God. Jesus is Jesus is God. Jesus is God. Jesus is God. Jesus is imitating as usual. Y imitating. You know what's crazy? Y'all imitating the Israelites just like y'all imitated the real true image of Jesus Christ. Just like y'all imitated our laws. You're nothing but imitating. Not even original. He's upset. He's upset when you get loud and then his people get loud. hypocrites. We can do that. That's the rule. That's part of the rules. Then don't get don't get upset when they do it. But I'm not upset. I'm just pointing it out with Jesus said if Jesus said you're calling me Lord Lord, he is not lying. Here's what I was told. If somebody actually called him from the person who made I can see it there. If somebody actually calls him Lord Lord, I might give you some credit. But nobody calls him Lord Lord there. So when he's saying Lord, Lord, he's cutting them. He's saying they don't do what he say. But the subject of this is, is Jesus the most high God? So as I went to John 17:3, when Christ said, "You are the one true God." Paraphrasing, who is he talking about? He is talking to the father. So did he call the father three gods or did he call the father one god? I thought you know what we believe. I thought you knew what we believed. That's a that's a misconception. No, I don't care what you believe. The subject is, is Jesus the most high God? So, if Jesus has a God, he can't be the most high because there ain't a God. The whole name, the whole reason for the name Most High is cuz there ain't nobody over him. Can I respond now? Yes. All right. Am I interrupted or can I respond? Well, don't do that cuz we've been interrupting each other. This is pretty simple. Don't do that. They get touching. They get when they get hot, they get touching. They get touching. This is pretty simple. It ain't working. Scholars have pointed out the verse does not say only the father is the true god. It says the father is the only true god. And what does the same author said say at the end of 1 John 5? The son is also true god. That's right. Therefore he's true god. John 17:5 he shares in the same glory with the father claiming equality with the father. That logically follows. This is why he can say he's Yahweh in Luke. I'm not done. Matthew 7:21-22 he says he is Adonai Yahweh. Hebrews 1:3 says he is the exact imprint of the nature of the father. If the father is the most high then Jesus is also the most high cuz he is the exact imprint. Now when they start when they start running them smoggage boards that's how you know they full of crap because in John 17:3 it says and this is life eternal that they might know thee the only true God and and Jesus Christ whom thou sent. So the only true God is him. Then he talked about glory. John 17 and if I was to read this uh 23 it says I in them and thou I'm sorry 22. And the glory which thou givest me, I have given them. So I guess if we get that glory, then we gods, too. We got no because you can't you can't make it about you can't make it about he's not letting me respond. I want y'all to highlight. Now I don't care about being interrupted, but this man said he did not want to be interrupted as he ran through about six verses and then what does he do to me? So I don't want to hear nothing when you when I interrupt you. I don't mind it. But you wanted me to be quiet when I was good. Thank you. Don't get mad because I check them. I got to check them. So, John 17 and 21 when it says the glory. Now, since he ran off Hebrews and other verses like that, if I was to read the book of Ephesians, chapter 1 verse 1 17. Hold up, let me find it. I like to read verses. I don't just like to say verses. Lord, come back to that. No, it ain't no Lord Lord. Ephesians 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ That's right. Okay. That's right. So, it says so God, the God of our, and this is what's heavy. It says, "The God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, can only be that same God that may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation." So, Paul clearly says, "The God of our Lord is Christ." So, he can't be the most high. You done? Can I go now? Yes. All right. Wait, before you go, before you go, is this what this going to be like? No interruptions going forward. I just want to know. Okay, I can do that if you want to do that. Okay, but but I we should give respect to each other, which we was doing before you got emotional. Go ahead. All right, so let's go back to that. Okay, so again, I need to go back to what I said in the beginning here. I stated that on purpose. We believe Jesus is subordinate and role to the father. We've said that, but that does not affect the substance of God. Exactly. As I said, Hebrews 1:3 says, "He is the exact imprint of the nature of the father." Therefore, if the father is the most high, Jesus is also the most high. This is why he can say, "I am Adonai Yahweh." Matthew 7:21, Luke 6:46, Matthew 7:21, he says, "Not everyone who comes to me and says, "Lord, Lord will be entered into the kingdom of heaven." That's the beginning. You say he's Lord, Lord, but that doesn't get you in entirely because you still got to do his will is what he's going on. So the first thing you got to do is you got to say, "Hey, you're clearly Adonai Yahweh." Then do what he says, and if you do that, you get in. That's what he's pointing out. Therefore, he's claiming to be the most high in his own words. People think that people think that their position matters in the title of a debate. The title of the debate is not to understand what he ignorantly thinks of the trinity. The title of the debate is to teach is Jesus the most high God. And so far, we have not done that. So far we have seen agency. When Christ raised Lazarus from the dead, he said, "Father, I'm only saying this publicly because you hear me always." Meaning everything that he did, he prayed and asked the father first. This is just the first time he's asking publicly. Why? Because that's his God. In John 21, he says, "I go to my God and your God." My father and your father. So the topic is not your misunderstanding of the Bible. The topic is is Jesus the most high God and it has not been substantiated yet. If I read Psalms 83rd chapter the last verse it says that thou whose name alone is Yahawah the most high over all the earth. That's clean on paper. Yahawashi ain't mentioned. Jesus ain't mentioned. Yeshua ain't mentioned. Ain't nobody mentioned. So the onus is on you to show where Christ and even I have a question. And the kingdom of heaven right now currently is Christ sitting on God's throne. Yeah. Can you show that? Sure. Let's do it. Let's go to Revelation. But first, I want to address what you said there. When he raised Lazarus, he prayed so they would know. But then he just said, "Lazarus, come out." Because he is the resurrection. As he says in that chapter, who raises the dead? God. Who raises the dead in John? Jesus does. Let's go to Revelation 22. Be careful. That's ugly. Did Peter raise anybody from the dead? Did Peter raise anybody? In the name of Jesus. Did he do it in the name of Jesus? So, is wait, wait, wait. I'm not I'm not done. I'm not done. Cuz Elijah raised somebody from the dead. Not in the name of Jesus. Elijah raised somebody from the dead. So don't tell me in the name of Jesus as if that's the only way you could do it. If God gives somebody the power, they have the power. Matter of fact, when Paul healed that brother, you know what they did? They called Barnabas Jupiter and they called him Mercury. You know why? Because y'all y'all think that y'all believe that Jesus is God is something that Christians only believe. That was the Roman culture that if you did a miracle, they attributed to Zeus, Mercury, Venus, however. So y'all accepting Jesus as God is your norm. Otherwise, in Acts the 14th chapter, when Paul healed that person, did they call him and Barnabas gods? Yes or no? We got a problem. We are going to the pagans for our theology now. That is your theology. That's your theology. That's your theology. That's your theology. So again, answer the question. Did they call them gods? Yes or no? The pagans did. Yes. Did the pagans. We don't trust them. Why? Why did they do that? Because they performed a miracle. And now miracles are all throughout the Bible. Moses did a miracle. Elijah did a miracle. Everybody did miracles. Y'all are pagan because everybody else says that God used them to do his miracles. You pagans come and say Jesus did it because he's the most high God. Instead of listening when Christ say the works I do are from my father. Everything he did was cuz the father gave him the ability to do so. So you're pagan. That's right. We got a problem because you said John 11 he prayed to God to resurrect him. I had to correct you because he doesn't do that. He prays and then he resurrects him with his own power. That's what I was pointing out. Why would you correct him again? John 11 when he resurrects Lazarus, he just says, "Lazarus, come forth." He doesn't say, "God, bring Lazarus forth." That's what I was correcting for you. No, that's horrible because he said, "You hear me always." You know why Yahawasha said, "You hear me always?" Because he's always talking to him. It's just the first time that he was talking to him. So everybody could hear. So he now when he would normally do a miracle, he would say, "Pop, let me get this miracle done." He would do it. He wouldn't say it out loud. This was the first time that before he did the miracle. Can I read it? Yes. After. Oh, it's I'm surprised you want to read scripture. Now, now you want to read scripture. It says, "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I know that you always hear me. But I said, but I said this on account of the people standing around me that they may believe that you sent me." He doesn't pray for the miracle. He prays for the people around him so that they believe that the father has sent him. The miracle just says, "Lazarus, come out." That's it. Why does he say you hear me always? Why does he say that? Because the father hears us always. He's omnic. No, no, no, don't say no us. This ain't about us. This is about Yahawasha. Why does he say you hear me always? Because he's on mission. He can hear everything. What? What? He's omniscient. That's pretty obvious. Your man's dying. He's dying right now. Why does it say Why does Christ say you hear me always? There's only one answer. See? Go ahead. Go ahead. Because he's always talking to him. Right. And when you say that Christ don't pray, that's a lie. I didn't say that. So then Christ does pray. Of course Christ prays. And he then he prays to himself, to the most high without the people knowing, right? That's modalism, Patrick. But modalism. Oh my god. When Christ prays, modalism is crazy work because Christ is not a modalist, right? When Christ is praying to the fathers because they're two separate beings. So, but don't let let's not get away from the point when he said that. That's the proof that he prayed to the father before he did any miracles. This was just the first time that he prayed in front of everybody. Well, I got a question now. I got a question. Okay. So, you said that before he did miracles, he always prayed, but he would always speak to the father to be clear. Okay, I got you. Which is the same thing. I got you. I get what you're saying. So according to him we what we see in John 11 is that Jesus would always pray and then he extrapolates from that and says well this was this applies to all miracles but when we were in Luke 6:46 earlier and Jesus says why do you call me Lord Lord but not do what he say he's like I don't see anybody saying that therefore it never happened do you see the devil standard here play from John 11 and say Jesus is always praying before miracles but when Jesus says in Luke 6:46 you're calling me Lord Lord he says that doesn't work because I didn't hear anybody say oh I get it now double standard I get No, no, I didn't. So, let me show you why I'm superior to this white man. In that verse, it says Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Superior. Superior. Hey, before I answer, hey, hey, before Hey, before before I answer, give all y'all a hand. Y'all great ass crowd. Both sides. You Christians and Israelites, y'all are great. But here's the difference between you and I. You couldn't show me the reason why he was saying Lord, Lord. In John the 11th chapter, the reason why Christ said, I um I say this, you hear me always? Because they had faith. They didn't have the faith. Remember Lazarus is dead. And what do they say? Martha, I think it's Martha or Mary says, "If you was here, he would have been alive. He wouldn't have died." So when he says you hear me always, I'm not juxtaposing. I'm not hypothesizing. He said out of his mouth, you hear me always. And so we can hear, we can see in other instances where he prays to the father and the father hears him. Where he speaks to the father and the father hears him. So if he's speaking to the father before he does the thing that he does, he's not the most high God. Question. Hold on. Hold on. Oh, hold on. We'll say something. So So first of all, I want to say first I want to say in the name of Jesus, I am not your superior. I love you as a brother. We are called to love everyone here. That's your Jesus. And there is neither. We are all one in Christ. I want to point that out here. Second of all, second of all, second of all, you are going on what Jesus said. He said himself. He said himself, "The father always hears me." But in Luke 6:36 when he says, "You call me Lord, Lord." Now, we can't trust Jesus. We can trust him there, but we can't trust his word when he says they're calling. This is a double standard. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. All I All I asked him, I never questioned what Christ said. I agreed with what Christ said. I'm just talking about the context that Christ said it. He was cutting them. His context is somebody called him Lord. So, I'm calling him out on his bull crap because he can't show in that verse where, excuse me, in that chapter that somebody called him Lord. I'm not questioning Christ. I'm questioning your understanding because it's horrible. So, let's go. Don't question. So, let's go to the Matthew then. Matthew 7:21 cuz you Okay, then after you ask your question, I got a question. Okay, you got it. So, okay. He says in 22, he says, "On that day, many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy your name and cast out demons?" 7:22. Sorry. 7:22 here we have people saying he is Lord Lord in Matthew 7:22 he says on that day many will say Lord Lord did we not prophesy in your name did we not cast out demons in your name and do many mighty works in your name so they're calling him Lord Lord there once again once once again Christ is saying many men so he's paraphrasing so I can give you a actual living example of that when Paul and Peter as they're doing their miracles I think it's Acts the 19th chapter The Pharisees see the miracles that they doing and then they try to cast out the demon. What did they say? What did they say? But read it. They said, "We cast you out in the Jes in Paul's Jesus or Peter's Jesus." I believe that's the term that they say. And when they say that, the demon beats them up. Correct. Well, why don't we read it? Let's get those We're not sure right now. The reason why we're the reason why we're reading that, the reason why we're I'm saying that is because the Lord Lord is not saying he's the most high. Here's what happens when y'all read and and get stuck on the Greek and linguistics. And this why when we before we started, Christ said, "I'm glad he kept it from the wise and prudent, but gave it unto babes." 30 minute warning. 30-minute warning. Thank you. Appreciate it. And that's it. It's only been 30 minutes. So when we look at that the Lord Lord is not him declaring that he's the most high because everything we do today is in Christ's name. Even Christians when they pray y'all say in the name of Jesus. Even Israelites when we pray we say in the name of Jesus because he's the mediator of the New Testament. Before Christ we would do everything according to Moses. Moses was the mediator before Christ. So when you say that Lord, Lord, that's all that it is. Hold on. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. It would be blasphemy to say in the name of Moses because he's not God. That's not the point. Y'all are so y'all are so literal you can't even understand it. So I So I'll give you an example. I'll give you an example of doing everything. The laws. Who delivered the laws? Moses delivered the law. Why did he deliver the laws? Because he was the mediator of the old covenant. Come on youus. Hey, wait. I want I want everybody to pay attention. I want everybody to pay attention. Wait, wait, wait. I want I want everybody to pay attention. Go. When I made the statement, if I could, if I could, I'll kill him. If I could, when I said we do everything in Christ's name because he's the mediator of the New Testament, just like Moses is the mediator of the Old Testament, all the Christians said it was like it was blasphemy. Then I asked him, then I asked him, I said, "Who delivered the law?" He said, "Moses." I said, "Why?" I didn't even think he was going to say that. He said because he was the mediator of the whole company, you died. So here we got a problem. So So my my point So my problem So yeah, you died. You died. I got to keep I got to keep explaining to you what we believe because you keep misrepresenting our beliefs. It's not about what you believe. You know this. You know this when you went Hold up. Hold up. Just hold up. Here's the problem. Here's the problem. I said in the beginning of this Jesus is ontologically God, but he is subordinate in role. Yeah. His role of the covenant. So what? That doesn't change ontology. That was not a point. You didn't even understand the point. Hey cryb babies over there. We're all subordinate. We're all subordinate in role. When it says the head of Christ is God, it's not just that he's subordinate. He don't sit on that throne. In Revelations, who comes before the throne? The lamb, right? The lamb does. And then he's in the center. Where is God? And then who's sitting on the throne? God is. And the lamb is there, too. The lamb is there, too. So, so you that that's a good answer. The angel said in Luke the first chapter, when the angel was talking to Mary, whose throne was Christ prophesied to? You want me to read? You want me to read for you something? That's up to you. But what I'm saying is, well, you already agree with me that that God is sitting on the throne. The lamb is before the throne. The angel in Luke the first chapter, whose throne did the angel say Christ is going to sit on? He's going to sit on the He's going to sit What? He sit on the throne of his David. So what? He going to sit. So So is God. Wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait. So is the Most High sitting on David's throne? No. Is Christ s Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Is Wait, wait, wait. Is Christ sitting on David's throne? Christ is on David's throne. So those two different thrones, right? Wait. So those two different thrones, right? There's two thrones because there's two persons of the same. So there's a throne that belongs to the most high and there's a throne that belong to the Where is that throne though? Wait, I'm I'm just asking the question. Let me read after after you answer this. Wait, wait. After you answer this, I'm going to read Wait before you read it. No, I I'll give you the floor. I just want to say that. So you you agree that there's a throne that the Most High is sitting on and there's a throne that Christ sitting on, but they're not the same throne. No, I do not agree. Okay. You No, I said I said I would let you go. Okay. So let's go to the end of Revelation 22. Okay, this is important. This is important because don't do it. This is important. Don't do it. Don't do it. The reason why this is important. This is the reason why this is important is because throughout the Bible, we see that only God gets worship. We're going to read a couple verses. Okay? Only gets this type of worship called latria. Latria is for God. It says, let's start in verse uh two throughout the middle city on either side of the river, the tree of life with its 12 kinds of fruit yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the trees were for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and the lamb will be in it. And his servants will let him worship him. They will see his face and his name will be on their foreheads and night will be no more. They will need no light, lamp or sun. For the Lord God will be their light and they will reign forever and ever. So in there the lamb and god are being worshiped as latria. The true latria is worship only for God. So, so I'm going respond. So, in Revelations 22, so in Revelations 22, I'm going to get right to the meat where it says um I think you did three. No, the parts where it says the throne of God was three and then six when it says um and there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and the lamb shall be in it. That's the important thing, right? So, you you agree that God Christ is sitting on them with with his throne, too? They're both being worshiped. Yeah. Wait, I I ain't get to the worship part yet, but what I'm asking you is that God and Christ both thrones is on top of each other. What? What? On top of each other? I I know. I know it's hard. I know it's hard. Revelation. I know it's hard because now here's the problem. And here's why here. Thank you. It's a vision, right? It's a vision. Yeah. Right. So when it says in it, it doesn't mean it's literally that Christ is literally on the throne. It's a metaphor of his position. Right. Exactly. Thank you. Got you. God. So if it's not literal, then Christ is not literally sitting on the throne with the father because the angel said he's getting the throne of his father David. So there'll be a throne that Christ sits on and then there'll be a throne. And you look at that smile. Cut it. Then there'll be a throne. Then then there'll be a throne that God sits on. Like Revelations 3:21 when it says, "They that overcome will sit with me in my throne the same way I sit with my father in his throne." It's what you earn for obeying the most high. When it comes to worship in 1 Chronicles 29, did they not worship the king too? No. Not Lat. That wasn't in Greek. That's not You say Latril. Latril. What did Christ say and when he was getting tempted in the wilderness? Who did he say to worship? In Matthew, he says you worship God alone and he used Latro, right? Matthew. So Christ said you worship him alone, right? You're saying we worship God and Christ the same. Well, I'm just reading the scripture. I'm just reading. Listen, all I'm saying see like see like when we talk about the Bible, if Christ says you worship God alone, Latrao, like you said, you clearly don't know what Revelations 22, you already admitted
admitted that it's a vision. So now when we actually read it, when it says God and the lamb, that's a clear separation between them two. That's right. That's why in Revelation, right? Cuz in Revelation the 5th chapter, God sits on that throne by himself. There is nobody on the throne with him at all. That's why the lamb that like Christ post death is still not on the throne. That's right. You know why he's not on the throne? Because we're waiting for him to return and have the rulership on the throne of David. True or false? True or false? He's standing on the right hand of God. Let me respond. You can't say it's false, Logic. Can't say it. Look. Look. Let me respond. So he said, okay, he said, okay, he said it's a vision, but we also know the scriptures say that Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God. God is not literally sitting on a throne in heaven, as he said, it's a vision, but they're both there in the center receiving the true worship. That's important. Sitting on a throne, worship. That's what's important there in heaven. He admitted it. He admitted Matthew, Jesus says, you should only worship the true God alone. Right. So Jesus says that, but then in Revelation, but there's nothing. They're both getting material worship. They're not. They're not. That's your misunderstanding of the verse because when it comes to worship, you can worship the king because that's who God set up. So there's no issue with worship. So I can't help it if y'all don't understand what Revelation 22 means. When it says God and the lamb, they're not getting it. Even if I go back to Revelation 5 at the end of the chapter, it says the same thing. So Revelation 5 says, "And every, excuse me, and the four beasts said, Amen, and the four and 20 elders fell down and worshiped him." I'm sorry, let me read the verse before that. Verse 13. "And every creature which is in heaven and on earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I say, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb." Exactly. So I don't have a problem. The argument is not worship. The argument is, is Christ the most high? But just because God allows the king to get worship, which we can read in 1 Chronicles. So if I go to 1 Chronicles, where you at? First, where you at? In 1 Chronicles 29, it says, uh, 29 and 20. It says, "And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads and worshiped the Lord, and the King." That's right. So they worshiped the King in the Old Testament. So, so is in heaven. In heaven is God the Lord of Jesus? Yes. He's the Lord of Lords, right? Yes. Now read, uh, Revelation 17:14 for me. Well, you can read it. You want me to read it? Oh, I'll gladly read it. Yeah. Still know Revelation 17:14. He just said, you said, you said 17:14. He just said, "In heaven, God the Father is the Lord of Lords." But what does this verse say? "They will make war on the lamb and the lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of Lords and King of Kings." You said 17. You said 17. 17:14. Thank you. So now when we read when it says, "These shall make war with the lamb and the lamb shall overcome them." Where is that war taking place? The war? Yeah. Where, where's the war taking place? You're deviating from it. That's I'm in the verse. I'm in the verse. No. No. You can't say that. I'm in the verse. Where? Revelation 17:14 says, "They these shall make war with the lamb and the lamb shall overcome them." That's talking about here on earth. Okay. So when Christ comes here, he is going to be Lord of Lords and King of Kings on the earth. He's not. There ain't no war in heaven where God is at that he's going to be Lord and Lords of. It don't apply. Now, that's your scripture. So here's the problem. The Greek is present tense. It is not future tense. He. So you're saying it happened already? Lord of Lords always. So you're saying, so you're saying it happened already? No, I'm saying it's present. So if it ain't happened, if it ain't happened yet, then Christ has to first go to war here and then win here and then he's going to be Lord of Lords here. You know why he's going to be? You know why he's going to be Lord of Lords here and King of Kings here? Because Revelation 5:10 says a nation of kings and priests is going to come out of Israel. So there's going to be other kings, but he's going to be the King of Kings. But in heaven, there's one king that's the most high. So if I read Micah 5, Micah 5 and 2, it says, "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall come forth unto me he that is to be a ruler in Israel." We would agree, let's talk about Christ, whose goings forth have been from of old from everlasting. Therefore will I give them up until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth. Then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel, and he shall stand and feed in the strength of the Lord in the majesty of the name of the Lord his God. Now, that's important. I'm glad you brought that up. That's important because Jeremiah 32 says, "God is God is God of all flesh." Now, when Jesus took on flesh, he therefore he's got he's flesh now. Therefore, he's got to have a God who's the Father because the scriptures cannot be broken. Therefore, of course, he's got a God. So, let's focus on God, y'all. We've never disputed that as Trinitarians. We've This is why I opened my thing and said, "Hey." Hey, but again, going back Deuteronomy 10:17 says, "Yahweh is Lord of Lords." Revelation 17:14 says, "Jesus is Lord of Lords." Therefore, Jesus is God. Right? So, now on the subject of God, now remember the debate is not the debate is not is Jesus God or can people be God? But on the subject of God, this is Zechariah 12:8. "In that day shall the Lord, in that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God as the angel of the Lord before them." Now, now we got like we going to have a subject of God. Jesus ain't going to be the only one that's going to be God. It says, "The house of David shall be as God as the angel of the Lord before them." So even the title of calling somebody God is not something that's synonymous with Christ. We don't found out Moses was called God, Satan is called God. We don't find a bunch of people called God. So, but the debate is not that. But the debate is, is Jesus the most high God? We have not. All we've read is verses that Christ says he has a God, and then my opponent tries to philosophy Trinitarian belief that just don't line up. We got to go back to the verses you keep running from. If he is Lord of Lords in Revelation 17:14, but Yahweh is Lord of Lords in Deuteronomy 10:17, therefore, he is the most high. I've given you verse after verse. Matthew 7:21-22, Luke 6:46. I can go to Mark, for example, 2:28 as well. We got Revelation 17:14. We got Revelation 22 where he sees the true. You said, "I've not given you." I've given you several verses and instead of actually addressing them, you just go to other verses where you show Jesus's subordinate role. That fits with our position. You're telling us our position and we're going, "Yeah, yeah, that's not a problem." That doesn't deal with the ontological verses like Hebrews 1:3, which I brought up as well, where he is the exact imprint of the nature of God. Therefore, he is most high. That, that's not, that's not true. Wait, wait, don't do that. That's, that's not true. But when you say I don't address your verses, you're being extremely dishonest. Like if I take Revelation 17:14, I went right there and did I not ask you where was that war taking place? Yes or no? Yes, you did. And then did I give my position that the war was going to take place here on earth and he's Lord of Lords here, King of Kings here? Yes or no? You did. But the problem and then did I also Revelation 5 and 10 when we'll be a nation of kings and priests. So when it says Lord of Lords, King of Kings, cuz there's other kings on earth, then don't say I didn't answer your question. The problem, don't be a liar here. Don't be a liar. Cuz I'm now I'm calling you a liar. The problem is I'm calling you a liar. You say the white man is the devil. That's why because you're saying I didn't answer and I clearly answered your question. Don't do that. I don't like being called a liar. I never called you a liar. You just said I didn't answer your question, but you just agreed that I just answered your Revelation 17:14. That is the epitome of a liar. Don't do that. You can disagree with me. Just don't call me a liar. Listen, Cap. Saying things like we've been lied enough by white people. Saying things, saying things is not addressing my points. I'm reflecting by talking about the war. And I pointed out in response to you in Revelation 17:14, I just showed how you didn't know. It's present tense. But we disagree, not that he will be. But you said I didn't answer it. I did answer it. It'd be one thing if you say I disagree with his answer. But to say I didn't answer, you're calling me a liar. And I don't play that. Don't do that. My point is though, my point is if you're going to say stuff, you need to address my point. I did. You want that Lord of Lords. You said in heaven. I asked you where the war take place and you wouldn't answer. You didn't answer that. Where does the war take place? Takes place on earth. So what you said Lord of Lords in heaven. The verse that you pulled, you just admitted takes place on earth. So when it's called Lord of Lords, it's on earth, not in heaven. So now we see once you expose the white man as the devil, you get the truth. That's what we need. That's all we want. Christ said, "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." This is nasty work, Logic. Logic. You done? Logic. Make somebody better. This nasty work, right? You know it, too. I'm going talk to you on the side. Get his face. Get his face. He knew it. He know nasty one again. Again, again, we cannot Revelation warns, do not add to this book. What we are seeing here, Revelation 17:14, he's saying, "Well, you're Lord of Lords on earth." It doesn't say that he is Lord of Lords. Why are you adding to the verse? That is a danger. I didn't add to the verse. I just said where the verse taking place. Revelation 22:16. In heaven, is he the root and offspring of David? You asking the question all this whole time. Now, now he don't know if it's a question or not. Now he don't know. Son, he don't know if it's a question or not. You asking me a question or you being I said Revelation 22:16. Is he the root and offspring of David? Let's read it. 22:16. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's like one of the last chapters when you was like he God or something like that, like he was God or something like that. He said I'll read it. Go. Go. You go. Go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no problem. "I Yahawah have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David." This is after he died. So yes, the most is the most high from David? Yes. Let me tell y'all something, man. Can I respond now? Indoctrination. Indoctrination is a mother scooter. Can I respond now? Of course. Okay. All right. Once again, we've already established Jesus claims to be Adonai Yahweh, Lord of Lords, King of Kings. He claims to be Yahweh. He says it directly in Matthew 7:21-22, Luke 6:46. Therefore, when he took on flesh, as we saw, the most high now has two natures. He's got a human nature. He is fulfilling the role of king as well. This is not hard. Okay? Um, very simple. There's no verse, there's no verse, there's no verse in the Bible that says the most high has two natures. I'm just two natures. There's not one single verse in the Bible that says the Most High has two natures. Look at them. Ain't none of my. Hey, ain't none of my people. Y'all got a verse? Ain't none of my people. 50-minute mark. We're going to do five-minute closings and then finish. Good. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I went first so he can go first. No, you go first, man. You go. No, you go first. I went first. Yeah. Yeah. That's the way debates work. You go first. I go last. No, I mean, you went first. I went first with the opener. So, you go first. That's how that's how debates work. If you go first, the other person goes last. That's, that's basically I don't know if I need the whole. I, I'll go first. Listen, let me, let me tell you something. I've been whooping his butt. I got to say butt and sucker cuz the Christians, they get touchy over logic. Right. Beating his ass. My man. Give a hand. Give a hand. Shout out to Setta. That's why I bought him. So, I want everybody, I want everybody to be clear. I, my, I give, I give my opponent, you know, good debate, you know, in the heated debates, you have a debate. Um, after the debate is over, that's it. Um, but this debate clearly showed that Christ is not the most high, right? I clearly showed. I clearly showed. Yeah, I got you. I ain't going to need the whole five minutes. I clearly showed that Christ, Moses, Satan, everybody works through agency of obeying the most high. He gives the orders. Christ obeys the orders. There is no verse that he has presented that said Christ is the most high. All he did was give a verse and try to analogically explain it to make it mean that. And I think that's clean and clear. There's so many different positions where he agreed with me that I think it's clean. So, I don't need the rest of the time. I know it's already late. So, I appreciate y'all rocking with me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Thank you. If y'all want to find me, I am Captain Tazar of ISUPK under Commander Jennana. You can find me on Captain Tazar TV. We got a cookout at Thomas Jefferson Park, April, excuse me, August 30th, 31st. Make sure y'all come out there. That's open to all my people and my people only. And with that, I say Shalom. Form. All right, listen. I just want to point something out here. There's a great conversation. I appreciate the invite. Appreciate a very intelligent man here. I just want to say something though. I let my arguments do the talking. I didn't have to keep telling you I'm winning because I know the arguments work. You guys, if you got to tell me, if you got to tell me you're winning, you are worried you're not. Okay. What did we establish? Jesus says, "I am Adonai Yahweh." In Matthew 7 and Luke 6, he says he is Lord of Lords. It says he's Lord of Lords in Revelation 17:14. He is not that he will be, not that he is just on earth, that he is presently everywhere. We also establish that 1 Corinthians 10:9 that Christ is who led them out of Egypt. Jude 15 is who led them out of Egypt. Over and over again, we can point to places where Jesus is clearly most high. At the end of the day, Hebrews 1:3, he is the exact imprint. All we can see here is that we can see verses where Jesus is subordinate in role. We agree he's subordinate in. We agree. But that doesn't address the places where it shows he is ontologically God. Therefore, he is the most high at the end of the day. That's right. It was uses. All right, we're going to start preparing for the next debate. Enforcables.