Transcription
How do you believe someone gets to heaven?
Naturally, they would come to the Orthodox church and they would speak with the priest and the priest would begin their conversion.
What do you mean when you say know that your salvation is secure?
You know that you're going to heaven if anything happened to you.
How could we possibly know what's going to happen on the final day?
Based on the words of Jesus.
In order to trust that these scriptures were preserved, we would have to trust in the people who preserved them.
No, I I trust in God's ability to preserve them.
If there's a process of salvation, at what point would someone be a Christian?
Who am I to judge? If you're going to tell someone how they're going to get saved or how they're going to go to heaven, how do you know that even you're going to go?
I think that the Orthodox Church has maintained the true faith without change over the centuries because we know that Martin Luther changed his faith from the Catholics and we know the Catholics changed their faith in 1054 with the papal claims. And so if you go down the line of the the historical lineage, we see that there's nowhere in the Eastern Orthodox theology that you can pinpoint a change or not not a small change though on a on dogmatic like christologology or like basic beliefs of Christianity.
Any errors?
H. I. I. I would say there's no errors, right?
If you guys are exalting Mary, I would go ahead and say that's the first error.
Okay, but how do you that's your interpretation? How do you know? How do you believe someone gets to heaven? Long story short, unity with Christ.
Through unity with Christ. Yes. But how does someone actually become a Christian?
Right. And so on on a normative basis, I would say according to the scriptures, you need to be reborn of the water and of the spirit. Unless you uh take eat my body and drink my blood, you have no life in you. And so I think that these are necessary things for a Christian by normative means.
What about the thief on the cross?
So what what does that what does that mean for someone? Someone has to do what to become a Christian? Uh they have to unite themselves with the body of Christ I would say.
How do you how would they unite themselves? What if someone's like, "Hey bro, how do I unite myself with the body of Christ? I want to become a Christian."
Like what do I do?
So I think like I was saying uh according to the scriptures, they must be reborn of the water and of the spirit.
What? Okay. So how do they do that? If they're like, "Okay, so I'd be born of the water and the spirit. How do I what does that mean? What do I do?"
So naturally they would come to the Orthodox church and they would speak with the priest and the priest would begin their conversion. That's how I would say is a normative means of salvation.
No, but we don't believe in a systemic. But but but okay. They would come to Orthodox church and they're going to sit with the priest and the church would begin their conversion. What is that? So how how do they actually become saved? What what what is their conversion?
Their conversion is. They begin it. So it's a process.
It's according to the scriptures that they do start to repent from their sins. They do start to turn to Christ. And so what does turn to Christ mean? Well, through baptism, they are born again. And through communion, they partake of the body and the blood of Christ, the true body and the true blood. And through this, they are united with the church. And so they can have hope and confidence that they were saved at baptism. They're continuously being saved through the Eucharist and they hope to be saved at the final day.
To be saved, they have to be baptized in water. And then on top of that, they have to actually take communion.
So this is a normative means that we unite ourselves to the body of Christ. But the idea that there is just this one-time change that happens like this is more of a western idea that was not seen in the first thousand years of Christianity.
What about in the scriptures?
Well, even with the scriptures, because they had the scriptures, they assembled in test. So, so through those two things, through being baptized in water and then taking communion, that's when someone becomes a Christian, they have to do those two things.
We understand salvation as a process called theosis that we are becoming more like Christ. Uh I know Protestants often will have sanctification and justification as two separate ideas. We unite them together. And um over the course of the church, they have written about this time and time again. And uh we don't have an understanding of a once- saved always saved moment like a born again moment.
At what point would someone be saved? If there's a process of salvation, at what point would someone be a Christian?
So, who am I to judge? Uh if someone if. You're if you're going to tell someone how they're going to get saved or how they're going to go to heaven, how do you know that even you're going to go that that that you're peace with God or that you're going to go to heaven?
Well, we we know this sidewalk here is going to lead us to some building over here, right? And so we know that we can trust this path. If we follow this path, it will lead us to our destination. But if we go and start to make our own way through the grass through on our own means, then we don't know what's going to happen. So I would say salvation is.
So that would mean when someone starts the path, what if they die right there? They're going to be saved.
Uh I say that's that's God. God judges. Only God judges. But if if I'm following the path that the people before me, the successors of the apostles set, and they're following the path from the success of the apostles before them all the way down to the times of the apostles, I know that this path is tried and true and that nothing is going to prevail against me if I stay united with Christ. But for someone who is not following that path, I'm who am I to.
So are you a Christian if you start the path? Are you.
I say a Christian is someone who is on the path. Yeah.
So at some point then you would become a Christian. You would become born of the water, born of spirit. At some point you become born again. At some point you would become a child of God and know that your salvation is secure, right? Would that be when you start to pass?
What do you mean when you say know that your salvation is secure?
You know that you're going to heaven if anything happened to you.
So how how could we possibly know what's going to happen on the final day?
Yeah. Based on the words of Jesus. Jesus said, "You'll be judged by the very word, by my words, by the very words that I spoke."
So, I I would agree. We can trust and hope in in Christ. But for me to put myself in God's shoes and to say, "I know for what will happen to someone."
If God said, "If you do this, then you'll be saved." We're not trusting in our ability. We're trusting in what God said, the judge. We're trusting in. So, if the judge says, "Hey, this is if you do this, you're going to go to heaven. If you do this, you're not." Right? Those who believe and are baptized will be saved. Those who do not believe will be condemned. Right? So, uh, Romans 2:9 and10, we we talked about this. You may have been here when we talked about it. It says, "If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, then you will be saved. For with the heart one believes under righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made under salvation. If you do that, then you will be saved." Scriptures, unless we want to throw that out.
Well, how do you reconcile it with things like baptism and the Eucharist? We know we have that unless we take the body and blood of Christ, we have no life in us.
So how do we reconcile that?
So when when when James says uh faith without works is dead, what what does he mean by that?
We know that we are saved not by faith alone but also by works.
But is it is it your own self-righteousness and your own works that.
That you're doing that's going to save you?
I would say no.
Right. We went through all this earlier. Um but basically we're saved by grace through faith. No, no, no, no. It's it's okay. We're saved by grace through faith that not of ourselves. It's a gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works. So, we're saved by grace. We have faith, right? Those who believe and are baptized will be saved. When we have faith in Jesus, which involves repentance, confessing him as our Lord, believing that in our heart, then we are saved at that moment. I am a child of God. I've been washed by the blood of Jesus. He's removed my sins as far as the east is from the west. I've been born again. The old me has passed away. Behold, all things become new. The Holy Spirit's living in me. I'm a temple of God and I have the hope of salvation, the joyful expectation of salvation. That's my helmet, the hope of salvation. So I know that at that moment, the Bible even refers to people who believe as saints, right? So I am a saint. The Bible says he who he made him who knew no sin to become sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God. So I've been robed with righteousness, right? Jesus's righteousness. It's not mine. The grace of God is something that empowers me. The Holy Spirit is producing those works. So if I truly have faith in God, then works are coming through my life. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. So good works are going to take place if I truly have faith in God because God is now working in and through me. I'm an instrument in his hands. The Holy Spirit is empowering me, right? He's helping me in a supernatural way. So we can know scripturally that back to Romans 10:9 and 10. If we've done that, we can know that I'm forgiven. I'm saved. I'm a child of God. If anything happened to me in a moment from now or if Jesus returns on the clouds I know that I'm going to go to heaven not based off what I've done based off what he's done right and then we continue in the faith after we do that confess that he's our Lord we believe that in our heart right is in front of that after we do that then we continue to obey Jesus right those who love me obey me we continue to obey him and he tells us to get baptized so we get baptized in water we then we we take communion and in remembrance of what he's done for him according to what Jesus said, "Do this in remembrance of me." Right? Proclaiming his death until he comes. So then we're taking communion and then we're continuing in the faith. We're continuing to trust in him. We're continuing to do the will of God. All by the grace of God empowering us. Jesus said, "I'm the vine and you are the branches. He who abides in me and I in him will bear much fruit. For without me, you can do nothing." So without him, we can't do anything. It's not our works that get us to heaven. It's not faith plus our works. But we've been grafted into the vine. And the vine is the one who's actually producing the fruit or the good works through us.
So therefore, there are good works and we're going to continue in those through the rest of our lives. As we keep our faith in him as our king, he's going to continue to produce those good works through us. And then we are going to finish our race one day. We are going to continue in the faith. But we can be sure of our salvation right now because we're sure of the power of the blood of Jesus, his crucifixion, his resurrection from the dead, and based on what he said to us.
What of those who say Lord, Lord, um uh those who call me Lord, Lord, will not see the I forget the actual verse, but you know what I'm referring to?
Yeah. Yeah. Are you talking about in Matthew where he said in that day they'll come to me and say, Lord, did we not cast out demons in your name? Do we not heal the sick in your name? Did we not raise.
Those who say to me, Lord, Lord, will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
He said, he said, depart from me. I never knew you, you who practice lawlessness. Before that, he said only those who do the will of my father enter his kingdom. So that one different verse but.
But there's another one. He said, "Why do you call me Lord but you don't do the things that I command you?" But if if people call him Lord but they don't believe it in their heart, then they're really not submitted to his authority. He's really not reigning over them.
So but but I thought you said we could know truly if we're saved.
We can't.
So why is it that on the last day there will be some people who may have known they were saved in their eyes, but the Lord says, "Depart from me. I never knew you."
Well, they weren't truly saved because they were still practicing lawlessness about.
So, how can we know if we're truly saved?
By being sealed by the Holy Spirit.
How was someone sealed by the Holy Spirit?
So, so here here here's another test, right? A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. But you'll know a tree by its fruit.
What about Mormons?
So, so you'll know a tree by its fruit.
If there's good fruit coming out of the tree, then you know, hey, that's truly a born again person. The Holy Spirit's living in them. Do you think that uh uh someone like Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses or even Muslims and other religions have good fruits?
Well, Jesus said, "Apart from me, you can do nothing." So, I don't think eternally the motive of their heart in whatever they're doing, maybe they do give to the poor. I don't think there's a purity of love, which God said that he is love. I don't think there's a purity in their heart when they're carrying out those things, even though maybe they think they're doing something good or it appears that they're doing something. The Bible says you could have faith to remove mountains, but if you have not love it profits nothing. Said you could have the gift of prophecy. He said you could sell everything you have and give it to the poor but without love it profits nothing. So that means without love first off the Bible says God is love. So without him and we know that we can't have the father without the son without Jesus. Jesus said that. So if we truly don't have love God in us the holy spirit then we're not going to be able to truly do something good from a pure motive of love. Even though someone sold everything they have and gave it to the poor, looks like a good work, right? But it's truly not because they didn't have love, which is God, in in their hearts.
It sounds like someone can be very heartfelt. I I'm sure many many Mormons are very like trying to follow God to the best of their ability. Uh but it sounds like um we can't truly know if our good works or if our faith is heartfelt.
What's our faith in?
In Christ, right?
In Christ. So, Mormons don't believe in the same Jesus that you believe in.
How do you know?
Jehovah's Witness don't believe in the same Jesus. They don't believe Jesus is God.
Okay. Um, and we know Jesus is God because of those who passed on the faith to us, right? I'm just trying to bring it back.
From the scriptures.
Who passed God from the scriptures?
And we can trust that the scriptures were never changed or they were never destroyed and that that it is the scriptures, right? The word of God.
We can trust that.
Right. And so in order to trust that these scriptures were preserved and their teachings were preserved, we would have to trust in the people who preserved them.
No, we got to trust in God's ability to preserve them.
Through the people through his church.
Yeah. Through people who are truly his children.
Yes. Yes.
Okay. Uh I don't want to hold you guys too long. I know you guys were supposed to end at two.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we were.
So.
Hey, dude, it's been a good conversation.
Thank you for speaking with me.
Yeah. Yeah. God bless you, man.
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