How to get unlimited land leads with PPC

I've been able to directly tie the motivation of a seller to the average cost per click. For example, for land in particular, we had three leads come in on Monday, and all of them were high cost per clicks. We spent $500 that day, and every single one of those leads—one was already under contract, I believe, and then two are already in the works to be under contract. You're telling me, go, hey, I'm willing to spend more based on the intent of the person selling the land or selling the house, and so it's really, really interesting. So I'm really glad I told myself that to record this.

But um, Jesse, Mike, um, I'm going to introduce you real quick. Uh, Mike—Mike Mahoney is the CEO of Wholesaling Inc. Guys, this is—you know, Wholesaling Inc. has trained more people to do their first real estate deal, whether it be land, house, mobile home, you name it. A real estate deal is a real estate deal. We're like a pawn shop for real estate. And then uh, Jesse joined I don't know about a year ago or so.

And you almost two?

Yeah, two years.

Wow. I I didn't know you've been with them that long. Jesse, basically, you know, if you don't mind me saying, like came from Google, used to work for Google, and then perfected Brent Daniel's house-buying business on the PPC side, and that's pay-per-click. Um, and then Mike called me about I don't know six months or so ago. I was exploring PPC for land and just looking into the process, and it's so crazy how God works. I mean, it's like perfect timing. Mike called me; I was busy; I was going to take my kids to get ice cream, but I was like, I got to listen to what he's got to say. Um, and then Jesse took a bunch of time and built a website for myself. We spent a couple—few months collecting—I think we got about 300 and something land leads—so kind of just really perfected the process. We got a lot of data from other land sales that happened to feed Google to get better data, and then you guys started marketing for other land guys out there and started getting massive, major results as well. So um, I'm going to hush up for a minute and let you guys take over because I'm here to learn as well.

Yeah, thanks, Brent. Everybody, happy Tuesday. So my partner, Brent Daniels, wanted to be here, but uh, scheduling conflict, so you get me. So it's it's going to be just fine.

Brent, thanks for that. I I'll kind of give you some context. So you know, Brent Daniels—I work with him mainly in our Wholesaling Inc., you know, real estate education company and our marketing agency, um, which is where Jesse works with us. Um, but Brent has run for many years at a very high level a successful wholesaling business here in Phoenix. Right? Tough market. Okay. How we met Jesse is this: 2023, Brent decided to start transitioning away from outbound marketing. Now, I don't know—you probably know Brent well enough—he built the business on cold calling, right? Heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy cold calling. So 2023, decided strategically that he wanted to transition away from the outbound, away from cold calling and into inbound, and of course, we believe that the cornerstone of any inbound traffic—traffic strategy, lead strategy, marketing strategy—is pay-per-click, Google pay-per-click. So you know, we had worked with, you know, some agencies in the past in the space. You'd probably know who they were. The results were okay. I mean, they were good, but they weren't great, you know, hence why we didn't stick around, and we just decided that if we were going to get serious about this, let's find somebody who's really, really good at Google pay-per-click, let's bring him in-house, and let's just figure this thing out, right? And sort of serendipitously, right, our studio engineer, Matthew, who runs our podcast and our YouTube stuff, one of his best buds growing up was Jesse Champlain. Jesse lived in Phoenix, worked at Google, was managing PPC for some high-dollar accounts in the real estate space, and we thought, well, this is just perfect, right? So we greased the wheels a little bit; we were able to scalp them, bring them in-house, and uh, you know, here we are today. So I'm going to share with you—granted, in Brent's business, he's primarily doing housing, right? Not a lot of land; his focus is wholesaling houses, right?—but like Brent Bowers was talking about about six months ago, we had a lot of people in L saying, hey, you know, do you think this would work for L? And the truth is, we weren't sure, so we said, well, let's give it a run, and we said, hey, Brent, let's guinea pig this thing under you, see if we can get some traction. We did, and since then, we're—we're getting more and more in the land space as well. So but that said, I wanted to share—in fact, let me share my screen. You guys see my screen?

Yep.

And guys, don't get confused when Mike Mahoney says Brent, he's referring to Brent Daniels, especially if he says houses, because I haven't touched a house in like 20—22. It's like I quit drinking—I quit touching houses in 2022. I'll use last names just to be clear, right? So but yeah, so this—I wanted to share with you our experience. I wanted to case study Brent's business to kind of show you from the time that we started running ads with Jesse, right, um, to today what that's looked like. Okay, so uh, this is Brent's business in Phoenix. We started in March of 2023. Okay, we've spent uh, just over 600 grand as of November since then. Um, we've closed 115 deals, and we've made a little over $3 million. So about a 4.8 uh, you know, X return. You know, I wanted to share this just to demonstrate that we do this right; we're not just another agency group, you know; we we're really—we're investors first, right? And so the stuff that we're going to share for you or with you in this presentation, um, it's not just what we've learned about figuring this thing out uh uh from a lead gen standpoint but also what we've learned as a a real estate investing team in terms of converting these leads into actual closed deals and and and doing it very profitably. So that's kind of our numbers. Um, here's what we're going to talk about: so we'll talk about how we—how PPC leads are generated, okay, um, how PPC compares to uh, SEO—search engine optimization—and other marketing channels, uh, how to contact and convert more leads, how much it costs, how long it takes to get profitable, um, you know, your key performance indicators—the numbers that we look at—doing it yourself versus hiring an agency, plus some other stuff, right? And guys and gals, importantly, as you have questions, please ask them. Um, more than happy to answer them. Whatever comes to mind, any question is good. Okay? And okay. A little bit of an ethical bribe. Anybody who sticks around to the end and actually—just for you guys and gals in general—we're going to get this to you. This is our internal process—our standard operating procedure for working the leads when they come in. Brent and I did a high-level training for our PPC guys and gals; it's about an hour long where we walk them through our process for squeezing the juice out of these inbound leads, right? So we'll talk about more of that later, but at the end, I'll put this in the chat. You guys can link through this. This process is great for working PPC leads, but the truth is, it's excellent for working any inbound lead. Okay, so we'll go through that as well. Well, what's so cool about the PPC, and everyone knows I'm—I love direct mail, land offer letters, blind offers. I like getting these back in my inbox. But what's so cool about PPC is this is fast. This is really fast. I mean, you could turn this on and turn this off. Um, I'm guilty of it because I got way too many leads. Had a couple acquisition managers fired—all three of them—had to pause it for a little while. It's not so easy with mail. Pay-per-click is much more—I guess, how do I say it? It's just—you can set it up and get leads. Like if you're going to be on vacation for a little while, you just pause it. There's Jesse, dude. So Jesse, what I want you to do—actually, this is really about how does pay-per-click work, right? So I want you to actually walk everybody through the process. So everybody, I want you to pretend that Jesse is a motivated seller, right? And they're getting on Google; they're finally ready to solve whatever their problem is; they're going to get on Google and start searching for solutions, right? So just walk them through the process. Take them through our funnel, so they can kind of see from search to the search results to the landing page to opting in to all that good stuff. Let's just do a real-world example of what pay-per-click is, and do me a favor—when you're in there, make sure to show everybody the difference between the uh, the the sponsored pay-per-click results, right, and the organic search engine optimized results, and we'll talk a little bit about that. But go ahead.

Awesome. Uh, Brent, you want to know something crazy? I did—I did a search uh, on how many people are searching, "sell my land," "sell my land fast," things along those lines, right? Guys, that's what we're looking for in the United States. 1.1 million people are searching those words on Google every single month. Every single month. There's a lot of traffic, right? And so Mike, I don't—you're sharing right now, so Mike, I would type in—let's—are we doing it for houses? Let's do houses. We'll drive them to our website.

Yep.

And we'll just have some fun with this. So what—absolutely. I'm a motivated seller. What would be a like a top search term that I would search for?

Yeah, so typically it's going to be, "companies that buys houses."

Okay. There you go. There we are. Um, so as you can see, Mike, if you can hover over that sponsored little black um, word there, you can see on these ads, they're sponsored. Now, the the great thing about sponsor ads is you're typically top of page, and that's where people want to be. Um, as you can see, that's one of Brent's ads right there. If you scroll down a little bit, you see some of our competitors, and if you keep scrolling down, you're going to see where it stops saying sponsored. That's going to be your SEO; that's going to be what takes time to build, but you know, the ranking, etc. And as you can see, that's actually—I mean, if you scroll up a little bit, you know, that's more of like a—if you scroll—sorry—on the FBO portion, that's more of like a—education—"seven best companies that buys houses," right? That's not necessarily what the—maybe what the person's looking for because maybe they just want to fill out a form really quick, do all the stuff and get an offer on their house. It's the same thing with land. Um, and then if you want to, you can honestly click on our—on our ad if you want, um, just so they can see the funnel, um, or we can go to our—our website as well. Now, if I click on our ad, what's that going to cost us? Probably on this keyword, it's going to cost about 27 bucks.

Oh, man.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

Okay. I I just want to mention, guys and gals, like it with Google Search, right? Page one, top of the page—that's where you want to be, right? Nobody—and I'm talking over 90% of all traffic across the internet—they never make it to page two. So in terms of location, location, location in terms of real estate, the place that you want to be is page one, top of the page. Otherwise, you know, you might as well not waste your time. Now, pay-per-click, you're paying right to be there, right? You're paying to play. With SEO—search engine optimization—you're over time and often for—for, you know, keywords like this, often over a long time through just producing tons of content and being consistent, you're hoping that the search engines—Google in this case—start to pick you up and place you organically on page one, right? Love SEO; it's a good long-term strategy. Um, at scale, it's probably good for one to two deals a month, depending on the market that you're in. But pay-per-click—which is why you see all the big guys in G do it, from us to Opendoor to Doug Hopkins to Andrew the Home Buyer—I mean, this is where you're really able to take this and scale it up, right? But you have to pay for that, right? Instead of paying 27 bucks to click on this, right? If I were to click on this, where would we go?

We would go to our landing page. And that landing page is going to—I'll send it to you right now. JoeHomeBuyerArizona.com. And we can use that one, honestly, and it should be LP—alternate—alternate home—that one that's on your screen right now. This guy—that guy right there. So if I click that ad, this is where I would go, correct?

Okay. So now what do most leads do? Most leads hover quite literally right where you're at. Um, here's a fun fact about PPC: 80% of them are on their phone, so above the fold is very, very important. And to explain what that is, it is literally what you're looking at right now. So we need to be able to catch them. So, "Simplest way to sell your Arizona home without fees," right? That's their heading. And then if they read a little bit more, "A-Do Home Buyer. We believe the house selling process should be faster, easier, and hassle-free for Arizona home sellers. To get your offer today," right? They're going to enter in their address right there. And that—sometimes I want to say it's like 25% scroll past that—but for time sake, they type in, boom, you can press "Get Your Offer," and then this leads us into our form. Now, I will say for land, it looks a little bit different, but this is essentially what we're capturing anyways: name, email, phone number, address, and then an option will tell us about your home. It's very important for us to at least capture this. This is what we call a lead, right? In the housing space, for land it's the same thing, and also an APN number or a parcel number definitely helps as well. So they put in their number, whatever that is. Do you want me to pop up—I—you want me to put my uh, site in the chat so people can see what the land site looks like?

Absolutely. Yeah, be great. And Jesse built this, by the way. I have no—I can't take any credit whatsoever for—for this except for hanging out with smart people.

There you go. And then this leads us to this. This is your land site.

Yeah. Yeah, this is land. So this is if—if you fill out that—Mike, you could do phone number or sorry, name, phone number, and then email. You don't have to put a parcel or—or an APN number in there; it's optional. The important thing for land is getting their name, getting their phone number, right? So you can call and be like, hey, what are you looking to sell? Now, what's interesting about Brent's side, if we press submit here, we had about an—I think it was 75% fill rate on the second form. This form is insanely valuable for you as land investors; it goes way more in depth than houses, but that's intentional because you guys need to know a lot more about these—about the—these land deals, right? And so as you can see, you can keep scrolling down; there's going to be some things in there. Uh, "Do you have a mortgage? Do you pay taxes? You know, what can you tell us about the property?" And my favorite question is at the end, and typically people make it there, and I think it's Brent's favorite question too, and "Is there electricity?" Things along those lines. Boom. Public water? What's the water look like? Fuel? Is it natural gas? You know, how long have you owned it? This right here is where the money is made, okay? So, "How many years have you owned it?" That's really important. "Why are you trying to sell it? What is the lease you would take to get paid fast for your land? And then how did you acquire this property?" And then these last two right here: on a scale of one to five, "How quickly are you looking to sell the property?" As you can see, "I need to sell this property yesterday." All that fun stuff, etc. And then the next one is going to be on a scale of one to five, "What is your level of motivation to sell the property?" And Jesse, I'm sorry to interrupt you there. You said you mentioned 75% of people do fill out this second form, which is absolutely true. I was blown away by how many people made it all the way to the very bottom. And another cool thing is—is right before this call—I have a deal that we bought in Cape Coral, Florida, for 45,000. With this—I was actually on a hunting trip, you know, about—I think I told you about this one, Jesse—it's selling on December 3rd for 89,000. Boom. So we'll make about 44 grand on that one. And then we got a couple other ones that aren't like huge deals, but we'll—we'll definitely pay for the uh, ads and—and make a—I think we'll do about 3x easily on those other ones.

Amazing. Amazing. So yeah, that's what this looks like, right? This is why, you know, land to houses is a little bit different, um, but it's—in my opinion, land right now is nearly untapped, but we'll get into that. And so yeah, that's what it looks like, Mike. Um, all that fun stuff, and—and the thing about Cape Coral, guys, you know, Lee County—you land investors know Lee County; most of you do—it is the most competitive land county in the whole entire country. Like, go to Redfin, look at the last week of solds, and you'll see there's over 100 souls in the last seven days in just one little area. So that just shows you right there—if we were able to pluck that out—this is a—this is an absolute force multiplier if you're serious about the land game. In a bit, guys and gals, we'll give you some pointers on your—on your landing page because it's important, you know, if you're going to drive PPC traffic somewhere, there's some rhyme and reason behind all this. I'm curious. So—so Jesse, you know, I noticed, of course, on each of these sites—both ours and Brent—Brent Bowers—we've got this—this phone number—this local phone number at the top right. So, guess—while most leads are opting in through the form, how many leads out of 10 just pick up the phone and call you?

I'd say about 20% in the beginning, and then that usually evens out to about 40-60. So 40% calling in, or 30-70, I should say. And—and that's really a healthy number because if they're calling you, man, are they motivated? They got to sell for some reason, and it's got to be yesterday. And so that's what we've seen in houses and land alike. Um, you know, Mark and Mitchell—Brent, I don't know if you talk about them too much—but Mark and Mitchell are our clients in Texas, and they get calls—no joke—they will lock them up quite literally right there. They're the best. I think they're the best closers I've ever met, honestly. They—they are nuts. Like, they told me four deals in 40 days of starting pay-per-click—over 130,000. I just did a podcast with him; I don't know if it's out on the Wholesaling Inc. podcast yet or not, um, but they're pretty good closers. Does anybody have any questions about the process? Because I mean, it's really that straightforward, right? They get—they get on Google; they search whatever they're going to search. And by the way, there's lots of different search terms that people use, right, to find us, right? Um, so they do their search; you know, we show up page one, top of the page; they click the ad; they go to the landing page; they opt in or call us, and you got a lead, and you go to work on—I mean, that's the process. Super straightforward. Does that all make sense?

Uh, there was a question I missed it. Um, Lis was asking, "Do you have AI with this program?" Are you able to clarify what—what you mean by that, Lou?

I can clarify my question. When you guys were talking about the percentages, and I—I was wondering if you had AI attached to this program. That's all I'm trying to—

So Google's algorithm—it's all based on AI. But—are you talking about like automation? AI is so broad nowadays.

No. When you were talking earlier about the algorithm and how it selects or learns something—it automatically clicked in my head—are they using AI measurements?

Okay. Yes. Yes. Input signals—AI—it's all Google algorithm, quite frankly. It's literally the embodiment of AI.

Got it. Thank you.

Yeah, of course. John, what you got, man?

Does this integrate with Pebble?

Uh, Pebble? I'm not 100% sure, but it's Google, so nine times out of 10 it does, probably. So yes.

I can share my screen. I just called myself—I just called my own pay-per-click line because I was testing it out. Cuz I was like, wait a minute, that's not a local Florida number, but it's because my acquisition manager in Kentucky. But there's my number right there. Just—just called it. So yeah, this is—this is my Pebble account. What is Pebble?

Yeah, Pebble's uh, like the land uh, investors CRM. It's—it sends all of our letters; it gets my PPC calls, my cold callers; it just allows us to keep the deal moving down the pipeline, down the goal line, from task to task to task. It's super simple.

Bo. Awesome. So yeah, CRM. Yeah, absolutely. This slide, guys and gals, you know, the main thing here is this: SEO and PPC leads are considered the highest quality for—for a couple reasons. If you look at this—this kind of the lead quality pyramid, right? So you know, you see on the left side, you've got interruption marketing and search marketing. Um, on the right side, you've got inbound leads and outbound leads, right? So interruption marketing—you're interrupting, you know, the person—cold calling, you know, uh, on—on TV, you're—you're interrupting them with—with a commercial, you know, U—Facebook ads, you're interrupting them in their news feed, right? Interruption marketing. Search marketing—SEO and PPC—they're actually searching, right? And on the right side, outbound—you're reaching out to them; inbound—they're reaching out to you. At the top of the pyramid—SEO and PPC—um, they're searching for you, and then they're reaching out to you, right? That's why they're considered the highest quality leads. Now, the tradeoff is—as you—as lead quality goes up, right, so does the cost per lead, so does the competition, and so does the sales skills that you need to convert the leads and make this thing super profitable, right? So they're not—they're not lay-downs; these aren't the unicorn leads, right? They're just ready to go, and they're ready to go now. Okay. Jesse, I'll go through this briefly, and then we'll hand over to you pretty quickly here. Um, pros: high quality—talked about that—contact to close in 30 days, right? So cold calling leads—in our experience, it's typically four months from first point of contact to closing, and tons of followup, right, in between. Uh, the PPC guys and gals—we get them on the horn day one, typically, you know, if we're going to put a deal together, it's going to happen in, you know, days, right? And then we're going to close them out in the following three weeks. You know, don't need a big team. You know, with these leads, it's—it's all about quality. I mean, in our business, we're able to squeeze out a deal out of one out of every about 15 leads or so. With cold calling, it was one out of 70 leads. You know, our—our acquisitions guys were having to, you know, work—actively work—contact, followup, followup, followup, followup, you know, 70 leads to get a deal. Here it's uh, you know, one in 15, you know, for us anyway. So you don't need a big team. And finally, it's very scalable, you know, um, and we'll talk about scaling later where, you know, once you get traction and you're getting good quality leads, you can take this thing, you know, up to whatever level that you want, right? The cons, right? The tradeoff for all of that are—they are expensive, right? Compared to other lead sources, the competition is higher, right? All the—you know, all the best investors, you know, are doing PPC, right? Um, they're not good leads to learn on, right? Because they're expensive, and there's competition. You know, if you want to learn the business, you should be learning on the cold calling leads, the texting leads, some of the lower quality stuff where they're cheaper and you can get a bunch of at-bats. And then finally, frankly, Google ads are—are they're complex to run on your own, right? Because Google's a sophisticated machine, and it's always changing, which is why we decided as—as a business to hire—in this case, Jesse, you know, almost two years ago.

Jesse, I want to—I want to go through some contact and conversion tips first.

Yeah.

Before we get into the nitty-gritty of the actual lead generation, because the truth is, guys and gals, this is really where—what makes or breaks the thing, right? You know, yeah, somebody who's good at PPC—somebody like Jesse, right?—can—can figure out over time how to get the good quality leads coming in, but I'm telling you from the business owner standpoint, conversion is absolutely critical, and where we see most of our guys needing some work, including us, by the way. You know, when we first started working PPC, we weren't that good at it, right? It took us a solid 90 days to get good at squeezing the juice out of these leads. And so I'll share with you some of the biggest things that we've learned so that you can decide, you know, is this something that I can actually accommodate, you know, before I—you know, even entertain making the investment into a PPC type campaign, right? So the first thing is: don't outsource this. Okay? Okay. You want to have either yourself or your best acquisitions guys work the leads personally, right? So many people are trying to outsource this initial call; it's the most important call, right? Don't outsource it to a VA, much less AI or some chatbot or something else. This is where you really need the human touch, and you need your best acquisitions person front and center as the lead comes in. First point of contact—it's really, really important. The next is: speed to lead. People ask, well, is speed—is speed to lead really that important? The answer is: it's critical, right? You know, um, some of the old uh, lead conversion studies where they said, well, you got to get to the lead in five minutes—five minutes isn't good enough, right? So our goal is 30 seconds. Lead comes in; we want our guys on top of them within the first 30 seconds, right? Because the truth is, in terms of the conversion side of this game, the thing that you all can control to sort of stack the deck in your favor to win is being that first person that they talk to, right? Okay. Um, that person really has a leg up in terms of getting the deal, right? And you want to be that person. This happened to me a couple weeks ago: I locked myself out of the house, right? I don't know a locksmith, so I got on my smartphone, right? And I just put in uh, "Scottsdale locksmiths 24/7," right? And up at the top, the PPC, you know, advertisers came up—the sponsored ads. I called the first one; they didn't answer; I hung up immediately; called the next one; they answered; I said, hey, get out here and let me into the house, you know, I don't care what it cost; I got to get in, you know. Um, it's that way for these people, you know, when they're opting in, right? Um, you know, you got to figure—if they don't hear from you pretty quickly, they're moving on to the next guy in line or gal and putting their information in there, right? So speed to lead—really important. Multiple contact attempts, right? You know, we beat the heck out of these people for the first 24 hours, and as a result, we get most of them on the phone in the first 24 hours, right? So our process is 22 contact attempts between calls, voicemails, texts, and emails. We're going to give this to you guys, by the way, and gals, as that additional training later. So we'll walk you through that in detail, but man, we just—we beat the heck out of these guys because again, contact and quickly—it's the name of the game, right? It's how you win here. The next is: be available to work—mornings, evenings, and weekends. This is not just a 9-to-5 thing, and you can't turn your campaigns off over the weekend and on holidays, right? You just got to let these things run, right? So you need to be able—between you and your team—to—to most of the time hit these people—mornings, evenings, weekends, etc., right? Um, and again, we'll walk you through how we do that in the additional training that you'll get, but we—we split it up between people, and it works out really well. Um, and then finally, and this is huge—we—I mean, we see this all the time—don't disqualify because of price. So many people—investors—they—they just knee-jerk disqualify these guys and gals because they want retail or they want whatever the Zestimate is, you know what I mean? We don't even care about price, right? Our guys and gals are going to go on an appointment; I don't care what price they give us. If we have somebody who is motivated, right, and where their timeline is basically now, you better believe we're going to do everything we can to get out on that appointment, right? And many of the deals that we lock up, right, that initial price that they dropped on us over the phone was crazy, right? But we went out anyway; we got to know them; you know, we offered a solution to their problem, and we're able to get it at a much lower price. Yeah, these would be some of the big things we've learned conversion-wise in terms of squeezing the juice out of these leads, right? This is how we get to the top of Google. These are the things that Google cares about for you to show up as an advertiser—page one, top of the page. Absolutely. So one of my favorite things to hear, especially on—when it comes to like land in general—it's pretty untapped in the sense of actual advertisers doing this, right? And this is how you do this, right? This is what this slide is. So quality score is your expected click-through rate, your ad relevance, and landing page experience. To break that down, right? We really can't control expected click-through rate, but we can control our ad relevance. For example, if I'm building out an ad group for Brent Bowers and it's "sell my land fast," I don't want my ad copy to not say along the lines of "sell my land fast." It has to have some sort of congruency with the keywords, and the same thing with the landing page experience. So the landing page has to have congruency from the ad to the landing page because Google's number one thing right now is uh, intent and relevance. And so if you can knock this down, it is next level. And then the second is account life cycle. We see this a lot in housing. Um, we have a lot of players in Phoenix in particular that have been running accounts for a very long time—years, maybe decades. And so how—how much are you touching the account? How are you optimizing the account? Are you doing it properly by Google's—Google's standards, if you will? And then how long has the account been running? And then obviously, bid amount is how much money are you willing to take to the auction house, which is—you know, it happens in milliseconds when someone does a search, but how much are you willing to pay? And that's where bid amount comes into play. I want to mention, you know, like when we showed you the example earlier, when I went to Google and I put in "companies that buy houses," right? That was the search term that I was searching for, and that—many motivated sellers used to search, right? Knows all the search terms that these guys and gals use, you know, that indicates motivation. But the point is, when I type that into Google and press search—instantaneously—behind the scenes, and we never see this, there's a bidding war going on where Google is able to see all the different advertisers—guys like us—that are bidding on that search term, and they decide real quickly based on all this criteria that you see—bid amount, account life cycle, quality score—who's going to show up at the top, right? Does that make sense? So—and again, we can control the bid amount. Account life cycle is really about the

To, to the PPC campaign itself, you're going to get lower quantity, but you're going to get higher quality, um, because it's your backyard, right? And Nationwide, you're going to get higher quantity, but lower quality, and so less expensive is relative. If you're still spending, you know, let's say for a land, it's probably going to be 25 bucks a lead, but you have to get 60 leads to, to get a deal; whereas local, it's one in gosh, Mark and Mitchell right now are at like 1 in 10 are, are a deal, but let's just say one in 30, whatever it may be, and they're spending, you know, I think they're at 75 bucks a lead. The turnaround is there; like the money is there. It makes more sense to do local than it does Nationwide.

The problems with small markets, just to kind of—I haven't ran into this with land, uh, but I think it's going to be exponential with land—if you can go into Statewide land buying, it's way, way smarter to do that; or if you're in Texas, like Mark J Mitchell, they, the Texas triangle, then that would make sense. Small—I, I, I run into problems with small markets because there's not enough searches happening that add up to the account to allow us to actually rank properly, guys. Google's number one job is to spend your money, and let me tell you, they're very good at spending your money, and they're just going to spend it just so they get money as well. And so we have to put some guard rails up, and if we go to too small of a market, it just might be counterintuitive, if you will. Just a couple thoughts, uh, Jesse.

Local campaigns, guys and gals, you know, you're looking to kind of stack edges here, right? One edge is when you can position as the local home buyer. You know, there's quite a few times where we, uh, edge out, you know, the big National companies because we're the local guys right now. So that's, that's a thought there. Um, the national campaigns, you know, Jesse mentioned, well, okay, so you do get more leads, um, but they're lower quality, so you got to kiss more frogs to actually find a prince. Well, in my opinion, this is a quality play; we're trying to reduce load on our Acquisitions teams, right, so that they don't have to work as hard to make more money. So, you know, I'm, I'm looking to have less leads of higher quality than, you know, more leads of lower quality, right? That's the whole idea behind PPC.

But other trade-offs that people don't take into consideration, you know, when they go Regional or national is, yeah, you can get the cheaper leads, but guess what? Do you have your boots on the ground? What does your Acquisitions look like in these different areas, right? Um, yeah, you can get the leads, but what is your distribution Network when it's time to disbo—what does that look like, right? How long does it take to learn a new housing market, right? And all the different things that you have to take into consideration when you go from Market A to B to C to D. And then today, more than ever, with rules and regulations changing from one state to the next, one locality to the next, there's all these other things that you have to take into consideration when you're thinking about going virtual. And by the way, we do like virtual—proponent of virtual. If you're already virtual, fine; if you've already got all that stuff figured out, but if you're trying to weigh, you know, do I go local versus National with this, you know, unless you're already established virtually, probably best to go local where you're strongest, right? Does that make sense? Yep. Good, uh, Jesse, you want to go through this?

Yeah, of course. Um, how much is PPC cost? Um, so typical rule of thumb for me for housing leads, you're going to have to start at about 5k a month, and that's dependent on market and a handful of things. And the same, and with land, you're sitting at 3K. It is exponentially cheaper to run land ads than than it is to run housing ad, for example. Florida, I run right now, and we're dropping for housing about 20K a month. And Brent, when we started, we were at like five grand a month, and we were getting more leads—more, in my opinion, more quality leads—you can correct me if I'm wrong, of course—than the housing company that, that we were working with, and it was like day one when we turned it on, we were getting leads. Yeah, and I think we even lowered it a little bit to, uh, the cost, um, below that. So yeah, it's, it's, you know, and I'm still working a lot of those leads; we've been going back through them. Yep. I got a call—really—I, I put a fake lead in, and I literally—a call came through. I was like, hey, I'm working with, uh, Brent Bowers or whatever—you total whatever—anyways, hilarious. Sorry, I saw your, your name come through the other day. I figured you were testing it out. I didn't call you; it was Christopher, but, uh, I don't even know where I was going with that. Oh yeah, we're, we're going back—is Christopher Arnold, uh, not the same Christopher Arnold we all know; he helps me with my sales—different Christopher Arnold, but, um, he is going through a lot of these old leads and drumming up some business, so that's key right there, is still—cuz we were doing exactly what Mike Mahoney said not to do—just looking for the gold, looking for the low hanging fruit call because there was too—we were getting so many, and it was overwhelming, uh, so now we're going back through and making sure none of that got missed, right?

The problem with low-budget campaigns—this is where it gets a little messy in the PPC space, especially on the agency side—so you'll have agencies that will tell you, oh yeah, we can run you at 1,000 bucks a month in Dallas Fort Worth for houses. You're not going to make any money because our goal is to be one through four on Google, right? When Mike did that search, we were number one, and then we had three competitors under there. Our goal is to be able to rank with the top players, and if we don't, we're just elevating those top players. So if we're spending a grand, two grand, three grand, we could be, uh, sorry for houses, we could just be elevating those top players, and that's something we don't want to do. John, go ahead. Good to see you, by the way. Oh, thanks, Jesse. Good to see you. Um, could you kind of, uh, into a little bit more about, uh, local versus National? I mean, how local is local? Just your backyard? You like Statewide? Like, let's say you're like Brent was in Florida, and so we just did all of Florida, and then we had to get even really crazy with wetlands and all that stuff, and I had to figure out how to like not get wetlands in there and all that stuff, and so it was really fun, but I would say your state, like where is your, where is your buyers at, right? That would be huge, um, to be able to do this properly. Okay, so what about those that are like—what would you recommend to Virtual land wholesalers where you have boots on the ground, right? Like where you're established virtually already? Okay, yeah. Thank you. Generically, I would start, John, wherever you're strongest; whichever virtual Market you're strongest, then start there. Okay, yeah, right. I want to add, Jesse, to problems with low-budget campaigns, you know, remember what we're bidding on are Search terms, yep, right? And not all Search terms are equal in terms of indicating motivation, right, right? So the best Search terms for the most motivated sellers are going to be the most expensive keywords to bid on, right? Why? That's why when you go into a market, you got to have a big enough budget to start winning on some of those Primo keywords, Search terms, so that you're getting the right leads in, right? The challenge with these low-budget campaigns—and there's a lot of agencies, they'll take whatever money that you have because Google will take whatever money you have—and you will get leads, okay, but you won't get the quality leads that you're looking for because you're not winning bids tied to keywords and Search terms that reflect the kind of motivation we need as investors, right, to turn something into a deal. Does that make sense? Yeah. So that's why it's important, you know, with PPC, you know, to have the right budget from the get-go to know that over time you're going to be able to get traction with, with the right leads. I think, too, to add on that—sorry, really quick—to add on that, I have been able to over the last couple, a year and like whatever 11 months that I've been running Brent's stuff, I've been able to directly tie the motivation of a seller to the average cost per click. For example, for land in particular, we had three leads come in on Monday, and all of them were high cost per clicks; we spent $500 that day, and every single one of those leads—one was already under contract, I believe, and then two are already in the works to be under contract—it is—Google is—you're telling Google, hey, I'm willing to spend more, um, based on the intent of the person selling the land or selling the house, and so it's really, really interesting. I'm going to put in the chat, guys and gals, if you want to talk to Jesse and his team about what PPC would look like and whatever markets you have in mind, or if you're already doing it and you want him to take a look at your account and give you, you know, see if it's, you know, set up the way that it should, you can book a call at that link that I just put in there. I think more for you, bud, how long it takes to, to become profitable, uh, yeah, absolutely. So with land, it's been a lot quicker than I expected, but I still like going averages versus, you know, my best-case scenario. So I would say to be profitable—to have return on your ad spend—I even factor in my management fee as well in here—I would say probably 60 days; you'll get a contract hopefully within the first 45; it'll close two weeks later, however that works for you guys. I would say that within two weeks, it won't—you'll get leads within two weeks, but quality won't be quite there yet because I have to go back and pull some levers and do some things and do what I'm good at. Yes, he's lying; he's lying. Mike and Mitchell investors, they told me they were way profitable in 40 days, so I know I just like, you know, that's just—yeah, I like to overdeliver, BR, you know, so, um, yeah, so how long does it take to close your first deal? 60 days. How long to get start closing deals consistently? That's a huge one for me, cuz I like scaling. 90 days plus—three months, um, is typically what we see in this space, unless you're Mark and Mitchell, and you close, you know, in two weeks, you make 130 grand or whatever the number was; they're absolute ballers. So yeah, Jesse, is there an amount that you would say that you would, um, caution someone not to over budget on, uh, explain that a little bit deeper for me. Well, I mean, is there, you know, sometimes there's too much of a good thing; is that also in with PPC? Absolutely. Typically, I, I'll go even further; typically businesses overspend on PPC and underspend on other marketing channels. My goal is to help guide and educate why that is, especially if you're a client of mine. Like, there are times—Mark and Mitchell in particular—they're like, hey, we want to boost our budget; I'm like, okay, let's, let's give it a little bit; let's wait until we do that, and then let's build responsibly versus just throwing fuel in the fire and saying hopefully it works, you know? There's rhymes and reasons, and, and we'll get into that; Mike has a slide for that, I believe, that we'll dive into. And to that point of the, the guy that spent 60,000, can you dive in a little bit deeper? I mean, what did he do wrong, and how could he, he, you know, corrected that? I think he—so he targeted all of the United States getting housing leads, and that's just a big no-no for me in general because like—and he was dropping, I think it was like 10K a month into this, and nothing; he was getting leads, absolutely, but it wasn't quality leads because he couldn't really figure out—and he also was running his account himself; he wasn't doing the optimization steps that I personally would do because I'm very much in the accounts—my team's in the accounts every day—and, and all that fun stuff. So there was a decent amount missed cuz he—one of the things Mike Mahoney told me very early on, and it literally changed the course of Brent's account, um, not to hype you up too much, like, but it was—not enough to show your ad—you have to show up for the right people. I figured out how to directly do that with Brent's account, and then that translated to all of our clients, all of our land clients, etc. And so that's a really important piece that not a lot of people pay attention to because you can see in Google exactly who you showed up for—what someone typed into Google, you know. Okay, so yeah, cool. Thank you. I want, John, I want to add to your original question, which is, you know, can you overspend, right? So Jesse, what, what are we spending right now where kind of settled for BR? Yeah, we're right in Arizona right at about 45k a month, and then his, uh, Nationwide stuff is at 75, and that Nationwide is only two states, all right? So, so shelf the Nationwide stuff because that's, that's kind of new for us, but within Phoenix, right, we're around 45k per month for housing stuff, right? We tried to push it a few months ago, you know, we tried to push it to 60k a month, and Jesse, what happened? Oh my gosh, it was a nightmare, um, it was retail lead, and I'm not saying like, obviously don't disqualify on price, but no joke, everyone was looking to talk to a realtor, not an investor, and so there—I learned this from, from my, my Google rep, if you will—he told me, he was like, well, there's another learning period that happens when you up budget, and I'm like, oh, that's interesting; that would make sense. And so anyways, it just got real messy real quick; we wasted a chunk of change, um, and so, but we learned, and so that's where—trying to think of the, the verbiage for it—overspending can happen—happen in Google ads because it goes—well, it does 100% will, but being able to manage that properly and, and scale properly is very important in any marketing channel, guys and GS. There's a point of diminishing return—that's what it was, right?—where you push it, push it, push it, scale, scale, scale, and all of a sudden it's—the results start to go this way in any marketing channel. You're trying to find that sweet spot at scale where you've maximized your budget; you can also maintain quality, right? So the financial Sweet Spot—what I was going to say—in any media, there's always a point of diminishing return where you just—you can't SP, you know? So there are ways around that, like you can increase your exit strategies; I mean, there's, there's ways to keep pushing, but, you know, anyway, hope that makes sense. Ah, okay. KPIs—key performance indicators for land leads. Jesse, you want to walk them through these? These are kind of big thumb rules, you know, across the board of what we're seeing, so go through this if you would please. Absolutely. So cper click is going to be what someone—what you pay on average to—so first, I'm going to click on your ad; it's about 15 bucks. Then you have cost per lead; it's anywhere from $95 to $150. And then cost per deal; so a contract is 1 to 4K. And then leads to Deals; typically 10 to, to, to one; so 10 leads equals one deal, uh, and then your ROI can range—literally, I just said three to six; it could be, uh, higher, um, but I haven't, I haven't—yeah. So that's really—that's really what it boils down to—this big rule of thumb: be willing to pay 15 bucks a click, be willing to pay $95 to $150 cost per lead, and then be willing to pay about 1 to 4K cost per deal, depending on your market. So, um, you know, you talked about how, um, you're spending less than you are with houses; do you suspect that you'll get a higher ROI with land also? Yeah, yeah. Okay. I can't say that to Brent Daniels though because they'll kill me, but really—me and, me and Bowers have talked about this; I looked at the numbers; I'm like, oh man, this is, this is going to be crazy. And so yeah, people share—these are—this is what it looks like for housing, right? So the cost per click—about double—cost per lead—anywhere from a buck 50 to quite a bit more, right? Cost per deal—46—we're sitting around six in Phoenix. Leads to Deals—10 to 20—truth is, it's maybe a little less than 10 to upwards 25; that depends on your sales skills, frankly, you know, that's, that's one of the big things there. ROI—2 and a half to five—we're just under five. You know, it's interesting like, like ROI, you know, Jesse, you mentioned, you know, Bren Kelly—the truth is, we're less concerned about ROI than we are money in our pocket, right? You know, cold calling actually can have a much higher ROI, but we put a lot more money in our pocket with PPC. Does that make sense? I can put more money in my pocket at a 4X return with PPC than I can at an eight or 12X return with cold calling, yep, because I can't scale cold calling like I can PPC, right? Hope that makes sense. Callers are just hard to manage. Yeah, yeah, and, and you know, remember it's like, as, as business owners, like we're trying to put less stress and strain on our Acquisitions guys; we're trying to keep the best Acquisitions guys—first of all, acquisitions is a tough role to recruit, train, manage, right? But it's also a tough role to keep, and the fastest way to chase these guys and gals off is to just dump a bunch of bad leads on them nonstop all the time. The best way to scare off a good Acquisitions person is just be dumping bad leads on them nonstop all the time, right? Our guys—this, you know, the, the, the change in morale from the cold calling and the texting and the outbound stuff to now the inbound PPC stuff—man, these guys, they're making more money with less work; I mean, they're happy as clams, you know, they're, uh, it's, it's, it's a really—it's just a much better lifestyle for them, you know, and, uh, and that's good for everybody. So are you ready for PPC? You know, it's candidly—I mean, PPC is not for everybody. That we look at really two things when we, you know, go to work with someone or not because we want to set people up for Success, right? The most important thing are these two things, right? You got to have some experience closing deals, right? You got to have Acquisitions experience; these aren't good leads to learn the business on because they're expensive, right? And there's competition, right? And you got to have the budget and be able to see this thing through for at least 90 days to get it into momentum and see the thing through to what it can become, right? So for, for guys and gals that are actively doing deals, that have experience, you know, that are in a position to actually fund the thing, it can be a huge game changer, right? And for Brent's business, the biggest game changer that we've ever had, quite frankly. Yeah, I'm happy to talk to any of you guys, frankly, um, by the way. So this is if you want to, you know, look at what it would look like to work with Jesse personally and his team, so since we started with Jesse, we've brought on some other great guys and gals that he knows from Google, some great guys from ASU, so he's really built an incredible team of really passionate, caring guys and gals that are doing a great job managing these accounts. If you want to talk about what that would look like, you can go ahead and book a call with our team there—talktopeople.com. You know, if you're currently running PPC and you want Jesse and his team to look into your account and make sure that it is as it should be, you can also do that there as well. How to get a hold of me, John? That's easy; I'll put this in the chat, right? So you can call me at 482-084-4461; that's my personal number; that's fine for you guys and gals. So there's that, and then here, here's my email address—my@wholesalinginc.com, right? If you call me or, or whatever, just give me context, tell me, you know, who you are and how we met, and that's the best way. By the way, I want to put in the chat any questions, guys and gals; I'm gonna go find the, our, our contact training that I wanted to give you. So while I do that, Jesse, if there's any questions when we get those—yeah, Mike—great question—what is the realistic 90-day budget for land? Well, real quick, what Market are you in primarily? Colorado. Awesome, heck yeah, um, realistically a 90-day budget—let me do some quick math here cuz I actually was just looking in Colorado land—about 135 on ad spend for 90 days, so about 4500 bucks a month is right where you're sitting, um, and man, you get me in Colorado, uh, we have some fun there. I, I've lived in Colorado a little bit, and I love Morrison. Oh man, don't get me started. That's exactly where I'm sitting; I'm looking at Red Rocks. Oh yeah, heck yeah. God, I'm so jealous; that's awesome. Good deal. Yeah, heck yeah. I just put in the, the chat, guys and gals, both the slides from the presentation and also on the last slide you'll see a link that if you click it, it'll open up the bonus training that we talked about, where it's our, our standard operating procedure, uh, in our business—you know, Brent's business—for working the leads as they come in, right? Which again, not just good for PPC, but for any inbound lead Source, it's all right there. What you'll see there, guys and GS, is the actual flowchart, right? But as probably more importantly, it's an hour-long training Britt and I did with our PPC guys and gals where we walk you through every single step and some of the new ones, right? So no need to reinvent the wheel; that took us a while to really get dialed in, and it works like gangbusters, right? What else? Any other questions? I think we're good. By the way, was this helpful? Hopefully it was; did we learn something? Hey, Mike, is your number in the chat? Who's asking that? Yeah, this—this is Bill Rafter—is your number in the chat? Oh, Bill, I left that for John actually, since he asked for it; I just, I responded that to him. Okay. Hey, Jesse, what about a smaller state in Mike, like Kentucky where I live? Yeah, um, I could do—let me, let me just see here—Kentucky—I think you'd be right around three—right around three for, um, all of Kentucky—the entire State. Cool. Yeah, super fun. Sweet. Thank you, sir. Of course, guys. Thank you so much for jumping on, spending like the last 70 minutes with us, giving us value. You give me a lot of ideas on mine as well, um, Jesse, I emailed you—got—thanks so much again. If you need the contact information, just reach out; you guys know where to find me as well, um, I want to get some more, more of you—us—Mike Bender, Colorado—I'm like, uh, foaming at the mouth a little bit, uh, I want to hear some results on that. So a lot of land out there, um, not everyone answers our Direct Mail—our letters—but, uh, there's a lot of people that just go straight to Google for things, so this is a way to capitalize on it, um, and no one's doing it better than what I've seen these guys do. So thanks so much for joining us, uh, any final last words before we head out today? My only thoughts are, guys, right now land is, uh, it's getting, uh, it's kind of a—as far as PPC goes—a bit of a Gold Rush right now, um, in terms of timing for this thing, I don't think it could be better; we're just now in the beginnings of land, guys and GS, starting to come into PPC, you know, but there's just, there's a, a lot of opportunity I think for the land you and gals with paperclick, um, it just has been such a sleeper for so long. By the way, land, you know, more people are getting into land today, but for a long time it's just been a real honey hole, but now imagine that, but in with the P through the PPC lens—similar Dynamic, you know, just nobody's been doing it in for land through paperclick, and so the, the timing right now is, is, is pretty cool for this kind of a thing on Google. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. All right, we better do it before anybody else finds out about it. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Thanks for joining us, guys. We'll put this in the Q&A support call recording, so it'll be up as well, um, on page two in the, in the course, so you can find it, and if you miss anything you want to go back, uh, it'll be up very soon. Thanks, guys. Thanks everybody. Yeah, thanks Jesse, Mike, and, and Brent, man, this is great—great presentation, guys. Yeah. Bye guys. Bye. Thanks everyone. Bye-bye.