Transcription
[Music] Hello and welcome to the Help is here podcast, brought to you by the Beyond Compulsion Academy. Today, we're going to be dissecting and analyzing the Easy Peasy method. Before introducing this to you very recently and just saying, "Mary, we're going to do a podcast on all this," had you heard of this method before?
Well, I've heard that name. I remember it because it annoys me when people use cutesy names when it comes to cute, cutesy, rhyming names when it comes to addiction. But I think it's got it's it's it's related to the Allen Carr method for nicotine addiction, right? Or which I think he just calls it for smoking. But yeah, I've taught many, many, many people to stop smoking that have read that book.
Yeah. So, but I but I understand this one's now written for porn by somebody else based on Allen's book or something.
Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. Basically, I think they've kind of adapted it to make it specific to porn to try to help people.
I don't remember the name of Allen's book. Do you, the the one for smoking? I don't remember the name of that one.
I'm not quite sure. It might actually be called something like Easy Peasy, anyway. Maybe it's something similar. Um, but yeah, I think the author's basically gone and tried to create some free work to help people as much as possible, and he's put it out there online for free. It's a, you know, a free ebook sort of thing that anyone can download. I downloaded it, read it two times, and then made, you know, a lot of notes and sort of analyzed it quite a lot in depth, and then we'll talk that today.
Um, yeah, I've read it before as well, like years ago when I was really deep in a porn addiction. I think I went on like, um, quite a long streak after reading it, and then obviously I ended up relapsing. So, it didn't work for me personally, but apparently, it's worked for some people out there. So, you know, good on them if it's worked for them for sure.
Yeah. Yeah.
All right. So, there's an interesting book. There's kind of like two sides to it. Um, I actually read, I didn't read. I watched a film last night called Full Metal Jacket, which was good. So, have you ever heard of that, Barry?
That's a war movie.
Yeah. Yeah, it's a war movie. Yeah.
I don't watch war movies. They just make me cry. These young soldiers being killed and stuff. I just can't cope with it when I have a son, you know?
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, Zach and I had an agreement when he was at the age that he could have been drafted. Um, we, we have my axe and my chopping block out in the back. We were just going to take his trigger finger. Was our agreement. We're chopping off his trigger finger if he got drafted. He's not going anywhere.
No way.
I mean, that is that is crazy. Yeah. But
well, you know, it'd be better than getting, my kid going to war.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure it probably would be.
Anyway, what about Full Metal Jacket? How did that
it came to my mind just 'cause I watched it last night and kind of like a film of two halves. Anyone who's watched that film, you'll know what I mean because I, you know, I don't want to give away too many spoilers, but it kind of just cuts from like one set of characters to sort of a different scene with different characters. Um, and it happens quite suddenly. And I feel like this book is similar, similar in the sense that you kind of start off and it's pretty good, and then it gets to the advice section and it goes dramatically downhill. Um, like very, very quick. And it's interesting 'cause we've got, you know, in the analysis, we're going to talk about the good stuff and the bad stuff. And to be honest, up until page 70, I actually really liked this book. Like, I genuinely thought there was some stuff in it which aligned a lot with the Beyond Compulsion method, was actually useful, uh, was fresh, was was different to most of the nofap stuff, wasn't about willpower, was very much kind of hating on willpower, um, and was good. And then, you know, you actually get to the nitty-gritty of, okay, well, what do I do now, once you've had, kind of the theory behind it, and it, it wasn't, it wasn't good. It it was very bad, actually. So
kind of a bucket. Yeah. Yeah, it was interesting.
A lot of, a lot of, a lot of the books that are, you know, focused for addiction, they generally have some good relatable stuff or, you know, onto some things like not, not being into willpower, but then you get to how, what do I do about this and that, and that's where there's nothing.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
Okay. Good stuff. I love this.
Okay. So
yeah.
The good stuff was kind of the highlighting of irrational beliefs from porn users. Um, and what we call, you know, junky thoughts. So, like throughout the whole book, there's so many examples of, you know, the ways in which people, when they're in the porn addiction, think, you know, these thoughts like, "I will stop, just not today." "It's sexual satisfaction. It's a feeling of release. It's my pleasure, my friend, my crutch. Oh, it helps me to relax. I'll cut down. Um, I've picked the wrong time. I'll stop tomorrow. Um, nobody, nobody can survive without sex." You know, "If I can go long enough without internet porn, the urge to watch will eventually go." You know, these sort of thoughts, they're kind of highlighted in this way to point out the the ways in which these ways of thinking are actually being quite detrimental, which is good. And, uh, and there's actually some counters to some of these junky thoughts as well. They obviously don't call it junky thoughts. This is just what I've labeled it. But it was good that at least they were highlighting and identifying the glamorization, in particular, of, you know, watching porn and how much of this
I'm seeing here. Definitely a lot of glamorization, but like literally every one of those is a junky thought.
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And then it talks about irrational beliefs as well that are learned and acquired, such as masturbation or sex leading to orgasm is the only and most important thing in life. Porn is safer than real-life sex because porn can't reject me. Porn is educative and useful. Entitlement to a superior sex, sex experience. More is always better, and so on. Um, and then it also talks about, you know, this fear that "once an addict, always an addict," and how that isn't true. And then it talks about, you know, the willpower method actually making things worse for people. So, I thought all of that was pretty good, really. Um, it also
come back in on it once. I want to see it. I want to like it's going too fast for me.
Yeah, that's fine.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, okay. So, this stuff here is they're saying these are irrational beliefs.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Got you. I got you now. Yep. Yeah. Okay. So, yep. That's good. I, I agree. Yes. Yep.
Yeah.
And then another thing that I think this book gets completely right is talking about, you know, the reasons for watching porn. Uh, we talk about this in our program a lot as well, and how, you know, it says, "If you're apprehensive, panic," this is like at the start of the book. "If you're apprehensive, panic-stricken, or feel that the time is not right for you to quit, let me assure you that your apprehension and panic isn't relieved by porn. It's caused by it." And it talks about how stress is caused by porn.
Um, and it talks about, you know, your nerves. Um, they're impacted by porn. It talks about porn's actually leading to your boredom rather than you're choosing to watch porn because you're bored. Uh, you know, it says it's, you know, impacting your concentration and how it's a chain reaction, how every time you watch porn, that's what's leading you to the next one and the next one, and it's internet porn doesn't relieve the feeling, it causes it.
Um, so, yeah, do you want to, do you want to talk through any of this in a bit more, in, you know, a bit more in depth, really, Mary?
Well, it just all seems pretty right on, you know. Uh, it's really important to understand that, you know, it's not you're not doing the porn because of these things, but the, but the porn is creating and perpetuating these things. And like, I see the sticky coming up, constant conflict. Yeah. Staying using it is going to create the constant conflict. You're going to stay in that constant conflict. Yeah, that's great.
Um, yes, exactly.
Yeah. Absolutely.
And then there's some things on deprivation as well, but it doesn't really go into, well, how do you get out of those feelings of deprivation? But it talks a lot about how when you're in the porn addiction, you feel like it's a genuine sacrifice to quit. And I don't like the terminology "quit," which we'll probably get on to in the bad section, but
you know, I was going to say that too. I, I don't like using that word at all. Do you want to share why?
It's, it's just too much permanent in the future when obviously, our, well, not obviously, I guess, our focus is, um, staying stopped moment to moment. And anything out of the moment is not going to serve you. So that's, you know, staying stopped, I quit, you know, that's like, oh, that's like permanent, that's in the, you know, it's like rather than where the change happens in the neural pathways in the moment of compulsive desire, choosing to stay stopped.
Moment to moment. Yes.
Yeah. It's a subtle difference, but I think it is important to know, you know, the change happens moment by moment, as you say.
Words are powerful. Yeah.
Yeah. And then what's quite good here is, you know, people talk about porn being like a crutch for them. People talk about the void as well, and things like that. Whereas what the Easy Peasy method is saying is that actually, you know, you're not getting anything out of porn. It really, really beats this point home. You're not getting anything out of porn.
Um, but
the crutch, it's my pleasure, my friend, my crutch. If you think about it, if you didn't have the addiction, you wouldn't need a crutch.
Yeah. Yeah.
Because you wouldn't be handicapped by the addiction, right? So, the crutch is not a positive thing. You have this crutch because you got to use this crutch because you can't walk without it, right? Because of the porn addiction. Yeah.
Yeah.
But they're saying that this is this is incorrect thinking, right?
Yeah. Yeah. They're saying that they're saying that porn's what's caused you to feel like there's this thing that's a crutch. But like non-users, like they talk about like these different kinds of people, like people who have never watched porn before, they say they don't use porn as a crutch because they never, you know, got addicted to porn, right? Which, which is correct. So
their leg is not broken.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Exactly.
So, one thing that I also think was quite good is like, um, they talk about this in terms of like this tight shoes analogy. So, they give two analogies which are quite good to sort of explain withdrawal and how acting on the desire creates more desire. And they say, imagine you had like a tight pair of shoes and you're wearing them all day long, and then what you really want is like the relief from taking off the shoes. And every time you watch porn, it's like you're getting that relief. Um, but that's all you're getting. And if you just had, you know, if you didn't have the tight shoes on in the first place, you wouldn't feel like there was a problem. You wouldn't gain any benefit from sort of watching the porn. So, it's similar to what we talk about, which is that by watching porn, the main thing you're getting is temporary relief from the discomfort of withdrawal, and that's it. There's not actually this great thing that you're getting from it. And then another analogy they provide is this cold sore analogy, where imagine you had a cold sore, you go to a doctor, they give you some sort of lotion to help you get rid of this cold sore, and then the cold sore grows bigger and bigger and bigger, and you keep on taking the lotion. But every time you take the lotion, the cold sore gets bigger, and then you end up with cold sores literally all over your body. But, you know, you feel good every time you put on the lotion, but then the cold sores sort of go literally everywhere, and then it's screwed, right?
Um, and it's like,
Yeah, leave, leave alone.
I mean, I've never had them, but that's that's what I would do.
Yeah. Yeah. So, what it's saying is, you know,
it's acting on the desire, which is creating the desire to engage again. That's that's what's going on, which is good. And, uh, it's actually rare to have this information in a book. You know, usually people are talking about complete nonsense which isn't useful at all.
That seems sensible. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And then there's some pretty good neuroscience in here. You know, they talk about delta FOSB, which is a transcription factor. If you've read Your Brain on Porn, you'll know about delta FOSB. And it talks about, you know, over time, you're going to seek more novelty. And it makes it quite clear there's nothing wrong with you. This is due to addiction and the tolerance cycle. Every time you engage, you're strengthening those neural pathways, and you're going to want to watch more porn, and over time you're going to lead, that's going to lead you to like, uh, maybe fetishes, uh, you're going to look at, you know, more shock-inducing clips, uh, that you wouldn't have the first time you went and looked at porn, right? So, again, this is all accurate. Um, I don't think knowing the neuroscience is particularly useful, but it can help people maybe
alleviate some feelings of shame, right?
I think it, you know, neuroscience as related to tolerance cycle, I think is important for the guys to know because that, you know, then they're going to be less susceptible to self-deprecation, junky thinking, right? Like, oh, something's wrong with me, you know, because I, I'm seeking out this extreme content, you know, that to know that that's just normal tolerance cycle with addiction. Yeah.
Yeah. Absolutely. I was on a call with a client yesterday, and it was a guy who I'd only spoke to for like the first time. He's just joined the program, and he felt so much shame around the certain kinds of content that he'd watched that it took quite a bit of time to even like get certain things out of him. And obviously, on the call, we didn't even need to talk about the certain types of content 'cause it's just not relevant to rewiring your brain. So, most times, I never even get into that conversation with a client 'cause it's just not useful for us. Like, we don't need to know what kind of content someone's watching. But in this particular situation, some of the things he wanted to put in his script actually had something to do with the content he'd watched. And so we were exploring that. And I think it probably helped him to talk about it. But
you know, that that misunderstanding that it, because basically his problem was confusion. He was confused around the content he was looking at because he probably didn't know that actually it's due to the tolerance cycle. So then he's got the addictive part of the mind giving him all these unanswerable questions, self-deprecation, making him question everything when actually it's due to, you're in an addiction, and that's where your brain's going to go eventually if you keep on consuming the content.
100%.
Really important.
Talking about unanswerable questions, again, it doesn't highlight the questions as unanswerable. So, you know, it doesn't go into that level of depth. Um, but it does kind of point out how people, when they're in the porn addiction, they often have these questions, and they're actually just creating more anxiety, more stress, and they're making the problem worse, which was good. You know, questions like, "Can I, can I survive without porn?" "How long will the craving last?" "Will I ever be happy again?" "Will I ever want to get up in the morning?" "How will I ever cope with stress in the future?" So, it's good that at least they're kind of pointing out you're going to have these kind of questions when you're in the addiction. And this is natural when you're in the addiction.
But they don't go into them as the unanswerable questions and how to deal with them.
They don't call them unanswerable. They don't explain how to deal with them, which obvious
you're going to have these. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha.
Yeah.
It's more just like these are going to lead to stress. I mean, their solution, we'll get on to that in a bit, but it's basically disengage from this question and say, "Yippee, I'm a non-user." Which sounds mental, but we'll get on to that in a bit. Y
I'm a non-user. Um, brainwashing, normalization. Um, I really hope we don't get in trouble for having like copyright or anything here because I've just like copy and pasted this from Google Images. But I wanted to talk about this because they talk about some of the brainwashing not coming from the addicted part of the mind, as we would call it, but more like society, like outside society. Like they talk about how, you know, music videos for sexual content. They talk about how ever since you were very young, this kind of content has gone into your subconscious and it's led to you prioritizing sex and orgasm above literally anything else because it's in music and film and all of this sort of stuff. Um, I'm not so much, you know, I don't completely agree with this, but what I would say is like, I remember being, the reason I've got Nicki Minaj on the screen is because I remember being like 13 or so, and I was like masturbating to music videos with like these popular singers in them. Um, and it really messed me up because I remember like I'd honestly, and this is crazy, but I would be having like my cornflakes or whatever in the morning in the front room, um, like of my house, watching these music videos on the TV at like age 12 or 13 and just masturbating in the front room because these, uh, TV music videos, they were on at like 8:00 a.m. in the morning. And I think sometimes I was like late for school and [ __ ] but I was like, just watching that stuff because it was so, so sexual. So, I kind of get the point a little bit about how over-sexualized society is for sure, but it can lend itself.
Yeah. Well, what's that? Sorry, Mary.
I said, we can't control that.
You can't control it. Exactly.
I didn't even know who that was in that picture.
It can lend itself to like helplessness, which can be detrimental. For sure.
Exactly. Yeah. So
and then we have like
So, you were masturbating to music videos and eating cornflakes at the same time?
One hand on the cornflakes.
No, no, I wasn't. It wasn't like that. It was so crazy. So crazy. Um, so, yeah, the trap. And this is interesting because these junky thoughts here are exactly the sort of junky thoughts we talk about, you know, the brainwashing. So obviously, they call the brainwashing as, so they split it into like, you've got a little monster and a big monster. And the little monster is like the addiction, the dopamine, that side of things. The big monster is like the brainwashing of, uh, so societal sort of stuff, conditioning, uh, thought patterns, irrational beliefs, that side. So with the brainwashing, you know, the thoughts can be like, "Go on, you deserve it." "Everyone does it." "It's natural." "You only get one life." "You love it." That's what we call thoughts. So, this is a good example, really, of how the
glamorizing. Yeah. Glamorizing. Yep.
Yep. But then you choose to engage, and it's like, "Oh, you did it again, you idiot. You have no self-control." Then you feel worse. Then you have urges to do it again.
Yeah. Cycle goes wrong.
No. The thing is too, I feel like this whole dopamine thing is glamorizing. You know, I've talked to you about it before, but, you know, like, "Oh, it's my dopamine. I got to get my dopamine. Got to get my dopamine." You know, and it's like it's glamorizing. You know, dopamine is a natural thing that happens when you have, you know, natural desires to do things that make you feel good, and, you know, it's getting all, getting all messed up with, um, internet and addiction and porn and all that, you know. So, but I know there's a lot of writing about it. Well, you got a new book about it.
Yeah. Yeah. So, I just, just bought another book which I'll be reading soon, uh, Dopamine Nation. And I spoke to like, you know, uh, the guy who wrote Molecule of More before as well, like, I, yeah, it's been interesting in the past learning about dopamine.
In terms of what do you do in the moment when you have compulsive desire? You could know everything there is to know about dopamine, it's not going to help you, basically.
100%. I was just going to say the same thing. Not helpful.
Another good thing, though, about this book is they talk about the void. Um, obviously, if anyone's listened to our podcast on GABA Mate, you'll know GABA Mate talks about the void a lot and being a reason for why people choose to engage in their compulsive behavior. Um, but what it says in this book is quite clear, which is that porn doesn't fill a void, it creates one. Which is good. Again, completely agree with that. It really is true.
Well, and you know, a void. Yeah. Maybe it creates a a desire for more. So it's, it's, I don't know. It's not really a void. It's a, it's just a neural pathway. Right. I think. Yeah. And it's, I mean, the way we would call it is it creates the discomfort of withdrawal. And I think that's what they're on about with the void, is that sort of feeling where you do feel a bit irritable or frustrated. Could be getting confused with deprivation as well, though. Um, so, yeah.
Anyway, um, there is a really good bit in this book. My favorite bit by long way is they just have the title "Advantages of Being a Porn User" after like talking about all the disadvantages. Well, not really talking all the disadvantages, but, you know, explaining all this stuff they've kind of just gone through, and then it's like, "Advantages of Being a Porn User," and there's just like, two blank pages. There's just nothing there. And I was like, that is that is brilliant, to be fair to them.
Yeah.
So, that was quite funny, and they are correct. You know, I don't actually think there's any advantage at all of being a porn user.
But that is different to there not being any reason at all to engage. And, uh, you know, it talks about you're not giving anything up. So, it's like nuance, but it is different because what you're giving up is the temporary relief from the discomfort of withdrawal. But you only have that if you are choosing to engage with the porn already, right? Do you want to explain that a bit further, Mary?
Well, what you're giving up is peace of mind, happiness, healthy relationships. You're giving up a lot. You know, you're giving up a ton if you want to be, if you want to choose the porn addiction. You're giving up many, many things. Yeah. So
yeah, so it does kind of mention that as well. Um, in terms of deprivation, you know, they use the word "deprived" right there.
Yeah. They use the word deprived quite a bit, and they say, you know, "It isn't the non-user who's being deprived, but the user who is forfeiting a lifetime of health, energy, wealth, peace of mind, confidence, courage, self-respect, happiness, and freedom," which sounds very similar to some of the lists we see, right? The option-less.
And then they say, "They have to use porn and so brainwash themselves, keeping their heads in the sand." You know, the way we would explain that is people feel like they have to watch porn, like they don't have a choice. And then afterwards, they rationalize, justify, excuse their behavior because they're in the addiction. And so they use junky thoughts to sort of explain to themselves why they're choosing to engage because they don't know how to stop at that point in time.
Right. Yep. That makes sense.
So, yeah, it's good stuff. It is good stuff here.
But yeah, and then the other thing that's good about it is the cutting down part. They, they take such like a, a strong approach towards like nofap kind of streaks, and they're really, really clear on cutting down doesn't make sense because every time you engage, you're then going to have more desire to engage again. And so cutting down just means willpower and discipline forever, and it's always going to be challenging. Um, because, you know, every time you choose to engage, it's like you're back in the addiction, right? So, all cutting down does is reinforce the fallacy further, um, to the extent that porn dominates their lives completely and convinces them that the most precious thing on earth is their addiction. And then it talks about, you know, internet porn is a chain reaction that will last the rest of your life unless you make a positive effort to break it. "Cutting down will drag you down." And then talk about one peak a few times as well, and how one peak is going to send you back into the trap because it is a chain reaction, which is true again. Do you want to add anything to this, Mary?
Not really, other than, you know, it's, it's basic intermittent reinforcement. You know, anytime you intermittently reinforce an addictive behavior, you, um, you're gonna get in deeper. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Cool.
That's good. Yeah.
So, that's pretty much the good side of the book, which we've got through quite quickly, which I'm glad, you know, we managed to get through that quite quickly.
Yeah.
Now, it's time for the bad stuff.
Yeah. The sort of final 50 maybe 60 pages of this book are pretty terrible. So, "Porn does nothing for you." I want to make this clear. Um, it feels like porn does nothing for you. And, and this is sort of true when you're out of it, for sure. Like, if you get free from this addiction, you'll realize that porn was doing nothing for you. But when you're in the addiction, I think we've got to give it some credit because you are going to get that temporary relief from the discomfort of withdrawal. And that's important because for anyone reading this book, if you just hear like, "Porn does nothing for you," and then you have the desire, and you know you're acting on the desire, you're choosing to engage, you're going to feel, you're going to feel temporary relief from the discomfort of withdrawal. Like, you may have been very stressed or frustrated or
you are going to get that. You can't, if you deny the fact that you're going to get that, you just got to be really clear on what you're going to get. Because if you feel like, you know, "Oh, it does nothing for me, so I, I can't do that. It's not going to do anything for me," rather than, "Well, I can do that, but what I'm gonna get is temporary relief from the discomfort of withdrawal, and at the cost of being back in the addiction, right?" So, yeah, it's, yeah, it's, it's not helpful to just be like, "Okay, porn does nothing for me. Okay, therefore I'm not going to do it."
Not, it's not that simple.
No, no, no. Because if it did literally nothing for you at all, because it talks about here, you know, "Absolutely nothing. In fact, porn not only provides nothing, it subtracts. There's nothing to give up. Only marvelous positive gains to achieve."
They're saying the same exact thing, just in different ways.
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, really, what's the first thing say? "Porn does nothing for you." What's that green thing up at the top? "Porn does nothing for you." Now, we say the same thing, the same thing, the same thing, the same thing, just with more words.
Yeah. So, that's throughout the whole book, really, is this concept. It does nothing for you. Absolutely nothing. There's nothing to give up. Nothing. Nothing.
That's just gonna make people go send people into feelings of deprivation. Why do I want to do this thing? Well, I'm just stupid, you know, that I want to do this thing that we're going to say 10 different ways how it does nothing for me. Why would I want to do something? It's doing nothing for me. What's wrong with me? It's not going to work in anybody's favor.
Yeah. Exactly. So, it's important to get clear that it does do something for you. It gets you out of the discomfort of withdrawal. Like you wouldn't do it.
Clear about what it is going to do for you because you have a choice about it. You need to understand very clearly what it's going to, what you will accomplish by by engaging with it.
For sure.
Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Good stuff. I mean, bad stuff.
True.
Yeah.
Another thing I don't like is it minimizes the difficulty. You know, it kind of talks about it says, "The truth is that it's ridiculously easy." Um, the beautiful
Yeah. The beautiful truth is that it's easy to stop porn. Yep. Um, and then it says, "I'm still craving porn." Like it's saying, "If you're still craving porn, then you're being very stupid." How can you claim that you want to be a non-user and then say that you want porn? That's a contradiction. If you say that you want porn, you're saying you want to be a user, which is so, so incorrect. Mary, over to you.
Okay. I was just trying to read the other ones, too. You know, like, um, but, uh, the reason is that they don't exist. Okay. Do you want me to just go to that last one?
Yeah, sure.
"I'm still craving porn." Then you're being very stupid. Okay. Well, why, why would you call someone who is struggling with addictive desire stupid? Well, and it just goes up to the top one. You're not getting anything out of this. Why would you be so stupid to want it? And then, and then what? Why would you want this thing that you, you know, you're just stupid, and then just feeding their conflict? Oh my god. That I would, if someone was making me think that way, I'd go use porn. Just saying. You know, it's, it's
Okay. It, it's not. It's, It's how can you claim you want to be a non-user and then say you want porn? That's a contradiction. No, it's not. It's a basic dilemma.
Yeah.
Do it and you want to stop.
Yeah.
Basic dilemma. And if you deny that you want to do it, you're going to get nowhere.
Yeah. I was going to say that, like
It's really bad, Tom. You're right. It's
You will never ever get free from a porn addiction if you tell yourself that wanting porn is a bad thing. Like, that right there is so important because very few people are going to tell you that. Like, the rest of the world's probably going to tell you that wanting porn is a bad thing. But when you're in a porn addiction, you already have these porn addicting neural pathways. You know, delta FOSB, whatever, dopamine, whatever. You know, you can look at all the neuroscience. It's just a fact. Your brain's wired in that way. Like this happened to me from the age of 12. It's happened to you probably. You're going to want porn because your brain's wired to want porn at that point in time. Temporarily. That can change. You can change those neural
because you're stupid.
It's not. Yeah. It's not to do with intelligence.
It's crazy, right? It's really crazy.
Really crazy, you know. Oh gosh. Oh gosh.
Okay.
Yeah. So
another thing where I think this book goes wrong is substitution. Because although it does highlight that, you know, food, cigarettes, alcohol, you know, if you engage in these other substitute behaviors, you'll end up back at porn, which is true, and I totally agree with that. I still don't really think it goes into substitutes in enough sort of detail. It doesn't really provide real information on that. It's just quite like a simplistic, you know, "If you just go and eat a lot of food, then you're going to end up back at porn." But it doesn't tell you, well, what do you do about that? Because you are going to desire other behaviors as well. And it doesn't talk about like social media that much either. It talks a little bit actually about YouTube and, uh, at one point, but I don't think it really explains like the detail to disaster as much as it could do.
Yeah.
It's good. The thing is too, is it's, it's nice that it outlines that this is a problem because a lot of, uh, a lot of, uh, popular advice would say, "Do it, substitute a healthy behavior, right?" But
you know, it's, you have this information, but without a very, very specific solution on how to deal with the desire to use a substitute, it's not useful.
Yeah, absolutely. The other thing is this sentence here. This is crazy because it talks about, you know, it basically says, okay, so if you do have a desire and you use a substitute, I mean, they use the word "pang." Um, so they're talking about withdrawal pangs, so it means like if you have a, you know, discomfort, if you do a pang and you use a substitute, it will just prolong the pang, making it harder. So, yeah, that's true. But then it says, "What you're really saying is that you need porn to fill the void." But I don't get how you can talk in one half of the book about the void in this really rational way, saying porn doesn't fill a void, it creates one. But then, you know, later on, you're talking about a void again, saying it, it fills the void. But maybe you're saying, so maybe it's saying that porn does create a void, void, then. Um, which, yeah, I get your point now, actually. "What you're really saying," mid-saying to yourself, and I don't know, I just feel like this is not about a void. It's not a void. It's, it's filled with addicted neural pathways, not, it's not a void. You know, there's no void. People
because that's just going to be, go fill your life with all of the things.
And then you're not going to, then you're not going to think about the compulsive desire and connect to it so you can change it because you're out there filling the void with, you know, whatever. And most people, yeah, they're going to reach for food, you know, in our day and age, or they're going to reach for something else that's going to change the way that they feel. But that's, it's kind of validating that there actually is a void. So, I think you're right. There is a contradiction between this and talking about it not being a void. So,
Yeah.
that's not, it's not a void.
Yeah. I don't know. It just confused me a little bit. But maybe, what
you're correct. Yeah. Maybe what they're saying is like, porn creates a void, and then if you substitute, you fill that void again, but then you're staying in the addiction, which is true. If
some even begin eating. But although the empty feeling of wanting a session is indistinguishable from hunger or food, one won't satisfy the other. In fact, if there's anything that's designed to make you want porn, it's stuffing yourself with food.
Yeah. I don't think that's true either.
You know, you want porn because you have wired addicting neural pathways. You don't want porn because you eat a lot of food.
Anyway.
All right. So, another part then, which was really bad, was just the language in various ways. You know, "quitting porn." We've kind of talked about that a bit already. Um,
talks about, you know, porn being a, a, what is it? So, "Porn is difficult to give up because of the fear we're being deprived of our pleasure or prop." Okay. Uh,
well, you don't feel deprived if you correctly feel, uh, deprivation thinking. So,
Yeah. And then also, it talks about, you know, "falling back into the same trap." I really don't like how it talks about "pathetic of all." You know, it's talking about people who intermittently reinforce by peaking, they're the most pathetic of all, which I just, I just don't think you should be calling people that.
Yeah. Yeah. I just think it's kind of shame-inducing as well. Like, not that, you know, that's the main sort of problem of pathways is, but
you're stupid and pathetic. So,
it's crazy, right? Yeah. It just didn't sit right with me. Um,
Yeah. Not at all. Me neither. You're right on. Yeah.
Oh, this, you're going to hate as well. You know, it talks about disease. "Fact, face up to the fact that whether you like it or not, you've got the disease. Remember that like all crippling diseases, it not only lasts for life, but gets exponentially worse. The easiest time to cure it is now."
Okay. So, yeah, just so much misunderstanding about addiction and so much language that, um, validates helplessness, disease, you know, and, and also lasts for life. It not only lasts for life, but gets exponentially worse. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I can't even
I think they're saying if you keep on relapsing, it's going to last for life, which is true, and it probably will get exponentially worse. That is true, but just calling it a disease just isn't helpful, right? It's just not a disease, you know? It's just these neural
pathways. There's no, there's no falling happening.
No. No.
Um, and then it talks about, "Porn provided was a fleeting psychological boost," which I don't like. Again, you're getting out of the temporary discomfort of withdrawal. That's all that you're getting from it. Um, and could have been achieved by a book or good or feel-good movie. Even a bad one. Okay. Isn't that cute? Even a bad one. Stupid. Talk about stupid. Um, so anyway, they're saying they're saying that substitution is going to, is going to work against you, but then they're telling you to substitute.
Just watch a movie or read a book or even a bad, a good movie, a feel-good movie, or a bad movie, you know, do something else.
Mhm.
To get your psychological boost. Yeah. As completely off the track. Yeah. Look, look at the contradiction here as well, 'cause like, as you say, one, you're right about the contradiction around substitution, and then it talks about books and movies, but two, the whole book has been saying you're getting nothing from porn, and then it says, "All the porn provided was a fleeting psychological boost."
Right. Yeah. I thought you're getting nothing from it.
Exactly. Right. It doesn't make sense.
Said in 10 different ways.
Yeah. Exact. Yeah. Literally. Um, and then, you know, you got to start telling yourself that you don't need or want porn. Again, if you start telling yourself you don't want porn, you're setting yourself up for failure because you're never going to get into the neural pathway of compulsive desire and actually change those neural pathways.
Beautiful stuff. The beautiful truths.
Good job.
What the hell? Okay. Once you start telling yourself that you don't need or want porn, in a very short time, you don't even need to say it. So, yeah, you tell yourself that you don't want porn, you are going to be in serious, ser, feel seriously conflicted in your mind.
Mhm. 100%.
I mean, there's not, you know, when you're in withdrawal, those intense, intense desires to use, right? You know, just, you're going to just tell yourself that you don't want that.
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.
Yeah. And then another thing is, you know, it talks about sort of another difficult situation is boredom, particularly when combined with periods of stress. You know, the first half of the book, it's really good. It genuinely is good. And it's talking about how the porn's causing the stress and the boredom. And then here we're on about
this.
Yeah. Doesn't make sense.
Total contradiction. And you give any addict that information, "Oh, here's my difficult situation. I'm bored and I've got this stress, too. Here's a perfect reason for me to use, to engage with porn."
Yeah. Also, like pitying people who watch porn. I just hate that language. Like, I, I can't fathom pitying someone who watches porn. Like, I might be empathetic. I might want to help someone. But I would never pity them. It just sounds so condescending. Like, [ __ ] that.
Why would you say that? And what, how is that going to serve anybody to pity someone who's stuck in an addiction?
Yeah. I really hate that language. I really, yeah, I really, I like that. Empath, have empathy and and can help them. Yeah. But pity them. That's
that's not nice.
No. To me, it's just like, "All right, bro. Like, you wired your neural pathways at a young age, like myself. Um, you've not been taught yet how to overcome it. Okay. Well, Mary taught me this method. You know, you can learn it as well if you like." Like, that's my attitude. You know, it's not, "Oh, I'm going to pity these people." It's just, I don't know. It doesn't sit right with me.
Um, okay. And then it says, and I just think this is [ __ ]. It says, "At times it will try to make you miserable. At times you'll be caught off guard. You'll receive a porn URL or stumble upon something online and forget that you stopped." Like, that's not going to happen. Like, who are all these people who just receive these porn URLs? As well? Like, I, I can't remember the last time someone sent me a porn URL. Like, everyone in my family and friends, they, they all know my work with porn. Um, so maybe that's why, but it was like maybe three years ago was the last time someone sent a porn video into like a group chat, like my football group chat, like 200 people, but no.
What's it giving a slight, what? Does it just dropped off? Slight withdrawal?
I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I
Okay, no worries. But so, um, "At times you'll be caught off guard." There's your helplessness right there. We teach, we teach, you know, explicitly that you can't be caught off guard if you're expecting to be caught off guard. If you know the addictive part of the mind uses that tactic, "Oh, I'm going to take, catch them off guard. Take them by surprise." You can't be taken by surprise. You can't be caught off guard if you're expecting that. And when you have your script to be able to think through any moment of compulsive desire, it doesn't even matter if they did kind of surprise you or take you off guard because you know what to do.
Exactly. Exactly.
"Forget that. Wait, stumble upon something online and forget that you've stopped." Oh my god, this is just reeks of helplessness.
Yeah. That is insane. You know, you're never going to forget that you've stopped. Like, that doesn't happen.
There's a, there's a whole section on slipping as well.
Oh, great. Perfect. Yeah. It says, "Firstly, calling it a relapse is counterproductive. All that's happened is that you've slipped and fed the little monster, which in turn starts up the big brainwashing monster. Users who slip, which is by definition falling forward, typically spawn a whole range of irrational beliefs." So, I want to give credit to this bit about, you know, "you spawn a whole range of irrational beliefs," because it is true that you choose to engage one time, the addicted part of the mind's back in control. So, you are going to have way more irrational thoughts after choosing to engage. So, it's good that they, they recognize that. But the first three sentences here are absolutely terrible. Mary, do you want to jump in and explain why?
Yes. First, "calling it a relapse is counterproductive." You know, it doesn't really matter what you call it. Okay. All that's happened is that you've slipped and fed. You know, it's
Slipping. I mean, this slipping, we've come across it in so many books. It's just this pervasive language that tells an addict that if they make the choice to engage in their addiction, in their addictive behavior, that they that happened to them out of their control. Because that's what the word slip means. It's something that happens to you out of your control.
Um, but I do, I like you said, I do agree that, um, if you do make that choice to engage in your addictive behavior, then you are going to have a range of irrational, you know, junky thinking.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. That's a good summary there, for sure.
>> Do we want to go into any of that or not so much?
>> No, it's no need, really. Um, another thing which I don't like about the book is they kind of segregate different people who choose to watch porn into different kinds of porn users. I just think it adds too much complexity. I think they use it kind of as a vehicle in the book to demonstrate some points and highlight some junky thoughts, which can be good. But let's be honest, if you break it down, if there's a behavior in your life you want to stop, that's all you really need to know. You know, we don't need to have these different identities, these different kinds of users. It's not going to help us.
>> It's, it's not helpful to categorize this. The only, there's, there's, there's two categories.
>> People that are good with it and do it, and people that are not okay with the, the negative consequences that are caused by it and would, and want to stop doing it.
>> Yeah.
>> There's nothing in between. There's, there's maybe people that are trying to control an addiction, but in, in my, in my experience, the ones that are trying to control it are having, um, you know, a whole, a whole slew of negative consequences and actually do want to stop. If it was so damn great, they wouldn't be trying to control it.
>> They were okay with it. Why would they be trying to control it?
>> It's just like, you know, fat acceptance, right? Like all these people that are, you know, eating out of control and they're like, "We're all good with this." Well, wait, but why are you going on diets all the time? Why are you always trying to lose weight? I see this porn diet user. What that is is that like you're on a porn diet.
>> I think. Yeah, that might be like talking about streaks, you know, people who maybe diet. Oh, yeah. There was a bit actually in the book where they talk about guys who stop watching porn for like four days to get all like jacked up and filled up with testosterone before a date and then they'll go on the date and then choose to engage afterwards, which
>> Oh my god, this is like literally it's so similar to food compulsion because like it's like, um, there was an article about these guys who would go to their Weight Watchers meeting and do their weigh-in, right? They have a weigh, they weigh them like cattle. These people are not cows, you know, but they weigh them in, right? And then, and then they said what they would do is that after their weigh-in, they would go out and totally binge. Go to a restaurant and totally binge after the Weight Watchers meeting, you know.
>> Yeah.
>> So, so similar. Oh, yeah. I'm just gonna, I'm not going to do porn for 30 days.
>> Or I'm, I'm only going to do it once a day for 30 days instead of three times a day. It's just the same counting, counting your porn, like counting counting your porn site visits, like counting your calories.
>> So similar. Wow. Very similar. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. But in fact, they kind of do highlight, you know, the flaws in all these different ways of thinking. So, some of that section isn't too bad, but I just thought there wasn't really much point in the categorization overall.
Um, and then finally, before we get into the actual advice that the book offers, a bit on withdrawal, which I also thought was quite interesting. So the author is a guy who has stopped watching porn, which is, you know, good for him and whatever, but I just, I don't get this part because there's such a strong contradiction here which doesn't make sense. So he talks about his own experience. He says, "I knew right from the point that I'd never have, right from that point that I'd never have another session again. I wasn't expecting it to be easy. Just the reverse."
>> But just over there in the front, he said, "If you're wanting it, this is easy. You just do it. Otherwise, you're stupid." He said in the beginning it was easy. Am I wrong? Did I hear that wrong?
>> No. But there's even more contradictions to come. That's all right. Yeah. I wasn't expecting it to be easy, just the reverse. I fully believed that I'd signed up for months of black depression and spending the rest of my life having the occasional pang. Instead, it has been absolute bliss right from the start. It took me a long time to work out why it had been so easy and why I hadn't suffered those terrifying withdrawal pangs. The reason is that they don't exist. It's the doubt and uncertainty that creates the pangs.
But Mary, just, just hear me out, right? Hear me out. So,
>> I'm hearing you. Yeah, I hear you.
>> This is, this is where I put the massive [ __ ] you on about right next to this part.
>> So, it says,
>> "But up, this is later on in the book. It says, but up to three weeks after your last session, you may be subjected to withdrawal pangs. These consist of two quite separate but distinct factors. One, dopamine withdrawal pangs, an empty insecure feeling similar to hunger identified as cravings or something I must do feeling. And two, psychological triggers of certain external stimuli such as commercials, online browsing, telephone conversations, etc. Although the withdrawal pangs of dopamine don't cause physical pain, don't underestimate their power."
And then later on it says, "Don't worry about withdrawal. The feeling itself isn't bad. It's the association with wanting and then feeling denied that's the problem."
Um, and then later on, a different part of the book, it says, "In other words, for the next three weeks, you'll have a slight trauma inside your body, but during those weeks and for the rest of your life, something marvelous will be happening. You'll be ridding yourself of an awful disease with the bonuses far outweighing the slight temporary trauma and actually enjoying withdrawal pangs."
But it just didn't make sense to me because at one moment, you know, he's saying, "Don't underestimate their power about withdrawal pangs." But, you know, at the same time, he's like, "Oh, yeah, there is no withdrawal pangs." Like, it's fine. It's just that when I'm saying,
>> It's absolute bliss right from the start.
>> Yeah. It doesn't make sense. Like, it's such a contradiction. It's not just me, right? Like, I'm not going crazy here.
>> Yeah. No, you're not. I'm, I'm, I'm confused to the point that I can't really sort it out, you know?
>> Yeah. I just don't think it makes sense. And I don't know if anyone else has actually analyzed it like in this level of depth to be like, wait, this doesn't make sense. Like there's, there's contradictions all over the book, you know?
>> Yeah. It's the associate with wanting and then feeling denied. That's the problem.
>> He goes on and on about you don't want it.
>> Mhm.
>> You just tell yourself you don't want it because wanting something that if you want it, you're stupid.
>> Why it's associated with wanting and then feeling denied. And the thing is is if you're feeling denied, you're having incorrect, um, deprivation thinking.
>> Yeah, it's, um, it's a lot of, it's a lot of words that are confusing to me as well. So.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how you get through these books, Tom. Seriously.
>> Oh, it's tough. You know, I read this for the second time today.
Um, okay. Now, in terms of the advice, so a lot of the book, here we go.
>> You know, it's providing like information. Um, the first half, as I say, I actually think is good. But then the actual advice when it comes down to it is so, so bad. You know, there's a whole bit really that's kind of just saying like all you need to do is every time you have any craving, just say to yourself, "Yippee, I'm not a porn user." Like that. That's all it really is.
>> You're going to read the front, the top part.
>> All right.
>> Not even say. Okay. Pushing it from your mind. Totally ignoring has the effect of trying not to. It has the effect of trying not to think about it. Be mindful instead. As you spot the thoughts, cues, home alone, or absent-minded thoughts. Just say to yourself, "Great. I'm no longer." Okay, here we go. "I'm free and happy to know differences in sex." What does that mean? No difference. Okay, this. So you can tell a man from a woman. Okay, this will cut the oxygen to the thought and stop it from burning towards urges and cravings. In this aspect, practicing mindfulness meditation can be helpful to assist you in the. Okay, gotcha. Okay. All you have to do is two things. Make the decision that you're never going to watch porn again. Okay, right there. You're just really going to [ __ ] yourself up. And don't mope about it. Rejoice. Yay. Okay. The key to making it easy to quit is to be certain that you'll succeed in abstaining completely during the withdrawal period. A maximum of three weeks.
>> Yeah. I don't know why this withdrawal period is three weeks as well. That part's wild.
>> And then it's just like,
>> to use again.
>> Isn't it marvelous? It's marvelous, Tom.
>> Marvelous.
>> Marvelous. After three weeks, all temptation will go. Wow.
>> Yeah. Tell that to the guys who had the delayed withdrawal.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, whatever you do, don't doubt your decision. Once you start to doubt, you'll start to mope and it'll get worse. No, don't want any moping. No moping around. Have a positive frame of mind. These pangs will become moments of pleasure. It's always essential. Remember, the two essentials to succeed are certainty. Isn't it ma, isn't it marvelous that what's your thoughts so far on reading this? Because, you know, to the people listening, they're probably just hearing you mumbling along right now.
>> Because, well, they can read it too. They're probably reading it too, right? Whenever you think about porn during the next few days or the rest of your life, think, "Yippee, I'm a non-user." I think it's, um, completely misunderstanding about addiction, how the addictive part of the mind works, and how to counter that. It's, it's all just, you know, it's, it's, it's like memes. Make each one of these into a meme and put it on social media. Go. You go, boys.
>> One of the bits of advice at the end was actually to spread a meme around the internet. It's like, meme of a, um, like
>> someone addicted to porn. Like that was honestly one of the bits of advice was like,
>> I thought it was me asking, right?
>> "Yippee, I'm a non-porn user." Make a meme.
>> Yeah.
>> Make these are all memes.
>> PM free your PM and nonp.
>> And enjoy your social media addiction while you're at it out there reading all those memes.
>> It's not good, right?
>> Then there's a whole section on affirmations as well. So, yeah.
>> Oh, I thought, what are these? Oh. Oh, okay. There's the affirmations. Got you. Yep. Memes. Memearama. So then we also have
>> a random section on rational emotive behavioral therapy coping statements. Now I feel like this is weird for us because this is what we teach. It's like our method is kind of grounded in rational emotive behavioral therapy combined with actually a script that changes your neural pathways in the moments of compulsive desire. So when I saw REBT, I was like, holy hell, like I've never seen REBT mentioned in the porn addiction world. Um, which is good. You know, it's good to see that it's actually being highlighted here. But then the actual statements, a lot of them are pretty terrible and some of them aren't even relevant to porn. So I don't know if we even want to go through all of these. Um, don't know if there's any that kind of stand out to you, Mary, if you want to have a quick look at these rational motivation.
>> I'm trying. I'm trying. "I can totally unconditionally accept myself." Oh, yeah. There. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. "I can fully unconditionally accept myself." What does this have to do with REBT? This is just positive affirmation memeage. Okay. Very much at times I'd like, very much a draw of my troubles in PMO, but it's never reason to do so. It's, well, you know, I guess
>> That's pretty good.
>> Yeah, I guess so. Yep. "It's most uncomfortable when I don't get what I really want, but it's not awful or terrible unless I choose to believe that it is and choose to believe something more realistic and helpful." I would say it's all kind of, um, h, like non-specific. How do I deal with compulsive desire? You can go around telling yourself these nice mindful things, positive things, or whatever, and and some nice statements that are true,
>> but how are, when it's all so random and all these different things, there's no specific words used to change a specific pathway of compulsive desire to change the outcome. It's all these things that, that you, you could probably create a whole bunch of nice little pathways about, you know, "I strongly prefer to be outstanding at my work, but I don't have to be. Too bad if I'm not, but it doesn't make me." What does that even have to do with anything? What's your work? What?
>> Yeah, exactly. I don't know what that's got to do with porn addiction at all.
>> Doesn't. Yes. "I've often failed to do what I promise that I do, but that doesn't mean that I can't or won't carry out this promise." "I hate like hell being anxious and depressed, but we don't have to immediately dissolve these feelings." There, there's some useful things to think,
>> but not specifically. They're not going to specifically treat the addictive neuropathways and change them. Do you know what I'm saying? You create new little pathways about some
>> things. Because the thing is as well, like in terms of changing neural pathways, to me the most important thing is when you actually have that desire, when you have that compulsive desire, how do you respond to it, right? And that's how you change the neural pathway. So you need like one direct approach. Like when I have a desire, I know exactly what I'm going to do at all times. Like that's got to be your approach, otherwise the addictive part of the mind is going to start pulling some [ __ ] on you, because the addictive part of the mind is very difficult to deal with. And I, I don't think this book really, uh, kind of explains that. It kind of minimizes the reality of it. Maybe for some people, maybe they never got that hooked, that addicted. Maybe they can quit it easily or well rewire their brain easily. Who knows? But I mean, for me, I found it very, very hard. And I feel like this book just minimizes the reality of the addictive part of the mind. And there's actually quite a good point on that in a moment, which is very interesting. But before we get on to that, some other
>> just random advice here. This bit is interesting because
>> Yeah.
>> deep breathing. If you're panicking, well, if you're panicking, there's a ve, there's going to be very specific thinking that brings you to the panic, which is probably going to be one of two, one of two things or a combination of both. Unanswerable questions and deprivation thinking. Those two, because when you're getting in that vortex of that tornado, you're definitely going to be panicking, right? But you don't have to get, you don't have to get into it because you got a way to not engage with that, right? So, scream, shout, or have a tantrum. Kick something. I sure as hell don't want to be around you. You know, when this starts happening, you know what? What is the point of this? Scream, shout. What? As a boxing match, you cannot lose. So, yeah. Well, I don't want to be around that. So, you're not your urge. Mindfulness meditation is the practice of noticing thought, and there are fundamental lessons in the nature of the mind to be found. It's highly recommended that you meditate in general. Mindfulness meditation. So meditation is pushing thoughts from your mind. But that's, see, I kind of see this as a bit of a contradiction in itself. Mindfulness meditation. I mean, maybe I'm just wrong about what meditation is, but when I learned it many, many, many years ago, it's clearing the mind of thought. What? Pure awareness is clearing the mind of thought.
>> I don't know, Mary. I think you're wrong on meditation. My
>> I think, I think people that have capitalized on meditation have turned it into something else. But let's go talk to some gurus, you know, Buddhist gurus from way back. Pure awareness doesn't come when you're actually thinking thoughts. The idea is that me, that your mind is so clear of thought that no thoughts can enter.
>> It's changed over the years because it's been the cap. It's, it's a, it's a money maker, you know, so everyone can put their bent on it, right? You know, but the thing is
>> and mindfulness. You that are mindful of addictive thoughts that need to be treated very specifically and changed with the script. So, yep. That's pretty standard. We hear it all the time, right? Mindfulness, meditation, deep breathing. I haven't heard this. The screaming and shouting one, though. Have a tantrum. Kick something. What's Look out, Tint 10. I'm having a desire to kick my cat across the room, you know. Oh, goodness. You've got to unconditionally love yourself and the process. Find and contact a therapist. Okay. Yeah. Knowledgeable in internet porn. Well, too bad every therapist we, that any of our guys have gone through have done them more damage than good. You know,
>> got to unconditionally love yourself.
>> Yeah. So,
>> the thing is is if you're going to get in this unconditionally love yourself stuff, that's going to turn into, oh, you know, you just deserve this. You want this. Go do it. You don't want to feel so bad. You know, unconditionally love yourself. Give yourself some porn. Or maybe if you're wanting to do porn, you should just have your some cookies instead. I'll bring you some sad food. I'm sorry. You're making me squirrely now, Tom. It's all your fault making me do this. Okay.
>> I don't, I don't like you so much when you get like this.
>> Yeah, you. Oh, you love it. You know you do. Okay. While I believe that. Okay. You, you take. You go.
>> All right. I'll go. Final bit. Let's wrap it up soon. Um, we're nearly done. Anyway, it's just is interesting though, how, you know, throughout the whole book, there's all this different random advice and it's just one big mess, right?
>> Yeah.
>> So, it just, it's a bit all over the place. But, uh, the addictive voice is interesting. Kind of just comes in at the end and it's like, yeah, one of the reasons this may not have worked for you is because you may not have been aware of like the addicted voice. Um, so then it kind of talks about addictive voice recognition technique. Have you ever heard of this before?
>> No.
>> Yeah. So,
>> it's basically something created by a guy called Jack Trimpy. Uh, refers to the addictive voice as the beast because it resides in the animal part of our brain and it only knows one thing. I want it and I want it now. Um, and then it kind of talks about how that's going to hijack your mind voice and use it against you to get you to engage in your behavior. So, it'll say things like, "I could really do with X right about now. I sure do miss doing X. Wouldn't it be nice to do X right now? Oh, uh, you know, I deserve it after today." And he just talks about how there's kind of this addicted part of the mind, um, that's going to have all these thoughts and to start recognizing it. And that if you're unable to recognize it, um, then you're going to think that all these emotions, these feelings are coming from you and you're going to be more inclined to give in, um, or choose to engage, as we'd call it. Just thought that was interesting because that's very similar to what we talk about about the addictive part of the mind. And they kind of say, look, if you've tried the easy peasy method and it's not worked for you, maybe you need to combine it with this addictive voice recognition, which I thought was interesting, cuz I mean, that's similar to what we do. So, I just thought I'd throw that in there as well.
>> The addictive voice not only hijacks your mind voice. Okay. So, when is the last time that, let's say, a plane got hijacked that anybody had a choice about it?
>> Been a while.
>> You got a gun to the pilot's head.
>> I think that, you know, all the, all those passengers are just going to go, "Oh, man. I'm not, I'm just going to get off this plane, pull over." You know, it's just not, it's, you know, anything that implies helplessness, that you don't have a choice about it, you know, that's just happening to you, I think is not helpful.
>> Um, yeah. And, and the rest of this, "Wouldn't it be nice to do blah blah blah?" It's just all junky thinking, you know. So
>> Yeah.
>> you just think you are when you recognize that as not you. It's part of you, really, but, you know. Okay. Yeah. It's, um, you'll think this emotion is coming from you and will be more inclined to give in. Well, it is coming from you, but it's, Yeah, it's, um, so feel joy. Yep. Joy. Is that all of it? That's all. That's all for today. So,
>> I thought it was going to be a lot longer. You gave me the impression it was going to be a lot longer. So,
>> No. No. All right.
>> Yeah. Good job. Good job getting all that together and in such a clear, concise way to really take a good look at it. Yeah, for sure.
>> What's your final thoughts on it all?
>> Final thoughts? Um, it's more the same. Different same same [ __ ] different book. No, I'm just kidding. You know what I mean? Um,
>> Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to diss on people because obviously we're getting, we're getting some hate on the YouTube with our gabber mate roast. But, you know, it's, and the thing is is for anyone out there who has used the easy peasy method and is successful and happy. Congratulations and, and good for you. More power to you. You know,
>> for people that are not finding what they want, uh, success that they want that feels permanent and good, um, help is available other than these kinds of, um, uh, tr sort of standard, you know, trinkets of advice that are in these books, you know. So, there's, there's, there's don't blame yourself. I guess it, I guess we always come back to that, you know, don't blame yourself. If you have, if you haven't succeeded, it's not you, you know, I just really, I really always want to consistently get that message to people because,
>> you know, especially in this book where he kind of makes it just, you know, you're stupid if you want to do it and this is easy and all this kind of stuff. What is that going to do to people that are trying and trying and trying and not succeeding and they're just gonna, they're going to end up very depressed
>> and anxious and suicidal. I mean, a lot of our guys have come to us that, you know, talk about that, you know.
>> 100%.
>> So hope, help is here. Hope is here. Um, yeah, the usual. So
>> Yeah, definitely, definitely.
>> Yeah. I just think you can kind of see in the book like how many contradictions there are and how because there's so many different bits of advice, I think the addictive part of the mind is just going to get you spinning around in circles still. There's not really any clear like, do this and change your pathways. And I just don't like how it makes it seem like it's so easy, which I just don't think it is. I don't think overcoming porn is some impossible task, but at the same time, like for me, going through withdrawal,
>> I remember it being quite challenging a few days, you know, there was a lot of times where I really, really wanted to engage and, you know, reading my script and thinking it through rationally, it was challenging in those moments. I, I, I don't want to act like it's just some easy thing where you just transform all overnight and suddenly you never have this like desire again, like it is some work, but then once you're, once you're good, you're good, you know, and you can get to opposition.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, and then, and the other thing too, is like you say, there's so many contradictions and even just trying to wade through some of the text there, I was feeling a a sense of confusion. I'm confused by this and this and this,
>> you know, with the contradictions. Very confusing. When the addictive part of the mind, one of its main goals is to get you into a, you know, state of confusion, which I have a whole chapter in my book, Beyond Food Compulsion. It's called the land of confusion, where the addictive part of the mind wants to get you there. It's, it's a very specific ploy. So, yeah. And if it's going to feed that or, you know, help get you into that state of confusion, then it's really, it's not only not helpful, but it's going to be detrimental. Yeah, absolutely.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Great words. All right. Nice one, Mary. I appreciate you being here and sharing this message with the world. So, thank you so much. Thank God for you. Otherwise, I'd probably be reading this book again without any understanding of what to do. So, I'm just very grateful.
>> Um, thanks for anyone listening. Hopefully, this can help someone out. Cheers. Um, link in the description, some free training if you want to learn a bit more about the Beyond Compulsion method. Thanks again, and we'll see you in the next one. Bye-bye.