Muslim No Go Zones In The UK, Islamic Takeover, Grooming | The Last Days | Ep 7

The last days podcast. Alaikum guys, and welcome to another episode of The Last Days Podcast. People are talking about we're in the last days. So, we thought it's only fitting that we help you navigate these last days with topics that are prevalent and pertinent to these times.

A lot of P's there, Khalid.

Lots of them.

How you doing? 'Cause you're a P as well, isn't it?

I think that's quite derogatory, actually. Thank you.

Yeah. Um, yeah, I'm doing well. Thank you very much. Alhamdulillah. How are you?

Alhamdulillah. I'm good. I'm good.

Paul, you're not a P.

No, I am P. P for Paul. Or as you say in Arabic, ball become.

So, ironically, that's the topic, uh, that we're going to be discussing today. It's going to be migration, which is the center of a lot of discourse here in the UK. It is now shaping public views about the other, anyone that is not considered white. It is shaping political reform. Who's the next party that's going to be coming onto the scene? What is the view or what is going to be the state of modern-day Britain in five years plus? So, of course, the direction is going towards reform. Yeah, reform conservative, most likely, according to many polls and projections, they are going to be the next leaders. And we do know their views when it comes to migrants. I mean, their leader is Nigel Farage, and Nigel Farage, when it comes to Brexit, he was right at the forefront.

Yeah, he was ahead. And Paul, just our thoughts on Brexit at the moment. I mean, the stats say that Brexit was supposed to save Britain. Did it save Britain?

Well, one of the things it was supposed to do, according to Boris Johnson, is secure our borders and stop immigrants coming into this country in such large numbers. Once we retain and control of our borders, then everything's better. In fact, the opposite has happened. In fact, more people have come in since then. So, by that criteria, uh, it's been a failure.

Um, so, you know, and our economy has taken a big hit since we've disengaged from the European Union as well. So, I think it's very, you know, dubious that it's been of any benefit, even on the basis of the criteria provided by Boris and, and others. So, no, I think it's been a failure. I would say if you look at it from a different perspective, from the perspective of say, politicians, from their perspective, seeing that Brexit was enough to, you know, gain them fame, acceptance, um, a lot of politicians on the basis of Brexit did really well. So, seeing that work now, I think they've tried it again, and this time focusing on different foreigners, different migrants. And because of that, I think if you look at the success of Reform, it's definitely a success. It's in fact.

Strategists say, sociologists say that, uh, always blaming the other has been happening since, since we can remember.

Since Adam and Eve, actually. One blames the other.

Yeah, exactly. So, Khalid, where do you think this kind of stems from? And why is it something which has worked in the past, is working, and probably will continue to work?

It's strange. I mean, let me just touch on the Brexit part that you mentioned, and it just seems as if Brexit was just used as a lynchpin to propel what they always wanted, which was this type of nationalist sort of movement. It didn't work with Brexit. As Paul said, there's been an influx of migrants. So, it's like, oh, we've still got this problem. What can we do now?

At least we got rid of the dodgy Romanians.

I'm, I'm not going to comment on that, Zishan. Um, okay.

But provocative thing.

Yes. I think you're trying to throw me under the bus before I've even started, mate. This is it. Um, but yeah, no, as you've mentioned before, it's a very easy tactic. It's to, to otherize people. It's such an easy thing to do. You band together in a group, you point your finger at somebody else. It abdicates responsibility from you, from what you have to do. And the blame game is shifted. And once that happens, you don't really have to do that much. So, one of the things that you see from this is most people don't want to face the reality of what they're feeling. Much of this is, I'm getting left behind. That's the emotion that's behind this, which is, I'm getting left behind here. Nobody wants to feel like that, especially in a place that you call home. So, it's much easier than to point the finger. And when you point the finger, everyone bands together. And when they band together, you've got strength in numbers. Slogans then take, uh, a hold of that movement. And it becomes quite easy to mobilize people behind a specific ideology. And it's dangerous, to be honest.

Absolutely. I mean, if you look at what Reform is actually doing, and the controversies that they're facing, even EDL.

Yeah. You look at them, a lot of controversies. Yeah. There, I think one of their founders, Richard, I think Ty, or I think that that's what his name was, he was fiddling about with kids. Uh, there's all sorts of stuff going on. But again, his name is not going to be thrown around. Why? Because the cause, like you mentioned.

It's it transcends everything.

Exactly. And, uh, let's, let's look at, let's get some of these names. His name was Richard Price. Yeah. He was one of the early founding members of the EDL and he was convicted for having indecent images of children.

Tommy initially said he's been stitched up and they were protecting him. However, and he also said Price had no idea. Eventually, people started dropping out of the party saying, "This is ridiculous."

Yeah. And then they distanced themselves. And then Tommy was actually saying he's got nothing to do with EDL, but he was one of the earliest founders. Yeah. Even when you look at, say, Reform, what we, we heard, I think about a couple of weeks ago. Do, do you guys remember what that, that lady was saying about those, um, advertisements that were featuring a lot of non-white people?

No.

Remember that?

Not right.

No. Let me see if I can, uh, just bring that up. Is this on, like, just normal TV, for example, like advertisements that you will get for, like, you know?

No, it's a special TV.

Khalid.

I think you're a special case. That's what.

It's a very, it's a very special TV for special people. So.

That's why you've got one.

I'm going to have to start giving it back to him, Paul. Every week, he derails me. I'm waiting, bro. I'm waiting to receive some.

So, Reform MP Sarah Pochin said, and I quote, "It drives me mad when I see adverts full of black people, full of Asian people, people who are anything other than white."

Yeah. Now, this is something that is, you know, it came from a Reform MP. A lot of people were talking about it. And like, people call them blanket racist, racist, racist. But sometimes you're not really helping the case by, by calling people with concerns, because Reform are getting propped up by the people. They're not just voting for themselves. So, the concerns of, you know, "We're losing our girls. These people are coming in. They're abusing our girls. We're seeing news spread about this. Our country is being taken. There are no-go areas."

Yeah. Migration. A large chunk of our budget is going towards housing these people. The government's not doing much. It's been happening for ages. They now, they come here, they're not integrating. They've got these courts. So, what we want to do in this discussion is we do not want to, we don't want to strawman them. Yeah. We want to steelman them. We want to come.

So, what is steelman? I don't, I know strawman, but what are steelmen? Are they robots? What are they?

So, so steel, so strawman is when you make a caricature of their argument and then you destroy that, to which a person naturally is going to say, "That's not really what I believe. You're misrepresenting me." Steelman is when you use an accurate depiction of the argument, and then that's what you refute. So, that's what we want to do. We want to have this conversation.

And Paul, you're somebody that's born in this country. Your heritage is English.

Subtitle, I'm white. Yes, we can see that.

Absolutely.

Thank you for saying that.

So, we, we were even discussing, uh, off off camera as well. And tell us, because obviously, we come from a struggle. Our parents came, they worked here, and they already saw themselves as the other. And because of that, there might be a certain bias in our views. Yourself, you've seen it from a completely English, British kind of stance. Yeah. Maybe, maybe elaborate on that and let us know, even, I mean, there was a time you weren't Muslim as well. How did you see what was happening? And do you think there's any credibility to these claims, or a bunch of right-wing nutcases?

Yeah, there's a lot of issues there. Um, yes, I, I'm a white guy, I confess. Uh, no, but seriously, I, I, I think it's a mistake to see Reform and Farage as a British phenomenon only. I think it's a part of a Western movement. We're seeing the rise of right-wing populism in France and Germany, obviously, in the US. We're trying.

You find populism a word that gets used a lot. But.

By populism, I mean, literally, that it, it is something that is very popular with a huge number of people. It has a popular appeal to it. So, um, so yeah, once we've established a, a Western global context for these themes, um, then we can perhaps break down what's going on. I mentioned Elon Musk. He's probably the most famous and influential, uh, advocate of these views, sharing them on X every day. He's very influential. Every tweet of his gets millions and millions of hits, I've noticed. So, what are some of the themes? Well, as I mentioned, some of the, it's anti-Islam, anti-immigrant, nationalistic, nativist. In other words, favoring the, the indigenous people of these countries, France, Germany, United States, as if the white man was indigenous to the United States. Of course, it's not. The Native Americans are native to that country originally. Um, and so, why are we having this? Well, we've seen, uh, huge movements of populations in recent years. Why are we seeing these huge movements of populations? I think largely because of wars and conflicts, largely led and created by the West, for example, in, in the Middle East, famously in Afghanistan and Syria, and North Africa, and so on. So, we're seeing huge, uh, movements of populations. Many of them are coming to the West. Uh, Syrians, for example, in, in Germany, uh, where they were invited. Many Pakistanis that came to this country were invited by the government because we needed people from the empire to work in our factories and NHS. This was very noble and legitimate and lawful. Um, but the tide has turned against that. And that's the question, what's changed now? And I think if I was to put on a nativist kind of white, uh, hat, so to speak, because I can, I can, you know, one of the things about, um, imagining other people's views. Well, I can understand to some extent the views of socialists, or the views of conservatives, the views of this and that. By an imaginative effort, one can actually try and understand.

How people think.

You know, it can be done without agreeing with them. You know, I can, I can try and understand a range of views, try and inhabit mentally, just for a few moments, how they think. And you can, anyone can do this with everyone's background. So, in, in that spirit, one could say, in a more white, pro-white perspective, I could say, well, you know, the English people are the white people of this country. Uh, they have, or we have a history, an identity. We identify with traditions and certain historical moments, you know, Nelson, Shakespeare, Churchill, Chaucer, Henry VIII, and so on. And people identify not just with a current population, but with a, a group of people that have existed through time, historically formed, culturally, nationally, over many centuries. Now, that, in a sense, is not that controversial, because Pakistanis have similar roots. They may not call themselves that, but there are a continuous people. With the Chinese, a very good example, that's a continuous culture and history for four, for four, for four millennia. Same for the Egyptians, same for the Japanese, same for the, the Nigerians, and so on. So, people's had this coherence and homogeneity that has existed through time. So, when a people like that then experience rapid demographic change through the influx of many immigrants who often don't share, uh, the same values. In this is the argument, again, this is an effort in mental understanding rather than my own personal view. I think it's much more slightly different from that.

Um, people who have perceived not to share those same values, that same shared history, that sh same identity.

Yeah. They feel that communities are losing that identity too. And and and that is perceived as a problem and something that needs to be pushed back against.

Um, and and certainly since the Second World War, governments have accelerated that process of immigration. And now there's a turning of the tide. We see this in Germany with the Syrians and and the Turks, and Italy, and all these countries. So, I think the pendulum, if one can use that analogy, has swung now in the other direction against that process that's gone on since the Second World War. And the, the, the number one group that is the focus of this anger and anxiety and this struggle.

Are Muslims. I mean, we can say this very clearly. We see this in Tommy Robinson of EDL fame. You know, he, he rubs shoulders with Sikhs. No problems with Sikhs, turban-wearing Sikhs. But Muslims, oh, Muslims.

And Indians as well. He's Indian, he's okay with Indians. He says, "Yep, you're welcome." And they actually demographically, they have the highest influx of people coming. In fact, in The Times of India, very recently, there was a headline. So, this is from an Indian newspaper. They go, "Of the people that are, um, non-nativist, the people abusing women the most, right at the top, the Indians."

Mmm.

So, so, I mean, does he not have an issue with Indians doing it? He only has an issue when it comes to, you know, certain people that he identifies as Muslims because they look visibly Muslim, or their name is Muslim.

'Cause he's a, he's a gender-led, isn't he? That's the thing.

No, but that's the thing. That's what we're going to, that's what we're going to try and do. Like, steelman the person as much as we can, and then respond.

And then, okay. All right. You know, I get you.

One final thing. The animosity towards Muslims and Islam is not a recent phenomenon. It goes back 1,400 years, literally to the beginning. From John of Damascus, uh, in, in the, in the 8th century, the first great church father, so to speak, to write to actually mention the Prophet Muhammad and Islam.

Um, there's been this steady misrepresentation and attacks on Muslims and Islam. So, this is part of the DNA. What is it, what is it to be Western? It's a whole bunch of things.

Part of it is to be anti-Islam. Is to reject Islam. Is part of the DNA of the Western, the deep Western psyche. Even though for eight centuries, Islamic Spain, the great jewel at that time in Europe of civilization and science and education and civiliz, um, is in Spain, or the Iberian Peninsula. So, it's part of Europe. Yeah.

Um, but that is ignored and and overlooked to create a non-Islamic Christian or post-Christian Western identity, which is in part, you find over against Muslims. And it has been for many, many centuries. That's the context.

And that historical amnesia is, yeah.

So startling, because it was almost 800 years.

Islamic Spain. And to just overlook that massive chunk of time is, is really interesting. You mentioned sort of names there, even Voltaire. I remember used to write quite heavily against the Prophet Muhammad. And it's just to quickly touch back on what you said about, you know, using a almost like an empathetic lens to to look at what the issue is. And that's exactly what we have to do in therapy. For example, as humanistic therapists would sit with someone and step into their frame. So, you carry your own frame, you're not in there, you're not, you're not their painting, you're stepping into their painting. As it.

Um, and so you, you bracket your own assumptions, your own ideologies, your own ideals, and try to understand the color palette in there. Try to understand what the expression was. Try to understand what the feeling is behind that. And and conversely, you know, people from the other side need to try and apply that when they look at Muslims too, to be able to look at a Muslim and say, "I wonder what it is that they're feeling right now, given the current circumstances and the climate, etc." So, that, that empathy piece and that compassion piece goes a long way. So, you mentioned the pendulum has swung. Yeah. What's caused that swing?

Well, that's a good question. Um, I, I don't really know, but it's the nature of pendulums to swing.

Actually, I think it's human nature. If you push so far in one direction with a set of agendas and points, people will tire, tire of it and seek relief, and so it swings back again.

Or it's even the Hegelian dialectic, the thesis, antithesis, and synthesis. One can talk about it in philosophical terms, but this is a well-known, uh, dynamic in, in human societies.

If you repress and repress, ultimately you'll get a pushback, and you'll get anti-anti-repression. So, this is part of what it is to be human. I don't think it's, is a mystery. There are particular actors who agitate for it. One can identify. I'm not saying it's just this impersonal historical process, heal like. But nevertheless, I think there is this kind of twoing and froing, you see in historical changes.

In terms of that, I think if, if the pendulum were to swing at a, a tempo and a tone where people could almost look at the differences within one another, it's more tolerable, I feel, if it just moves at a, at a pace, rather than what's happening now. It feels like the pendulum is being taken to its edge and then let go. And so, there's this real swinging and this real smashing.

Thing thing with the pendulum is it has a natural movement. Yeah. Naturally, you expect it when it reaches one side to then slow down and go to the other side. Yeah.

But the question now is, if we take this and extrapolate this analogy, would you say that the, that the nature of the concern is natural, or would you say it's orchestrated?

Well, I don't think it's binary. I think it's, it's both. And I think some of the populist concerns are actually entirely legitimate, and we as Muslims can sympathize. For example, the woke agenda that has been thrust down our throats over the recent years under Biden, under previous governments in Europe, where you have to, you know, you got a, a bloke with a beard calls himself Mary and puts on a dress. Well, he's a woman.

Uh, really, please. I mean, be very, caricature, strawmaning perhaps. But there was this sense that people were asked to believe things and accept things and say things they really didn't believe. Has been now finally against this autocratic ideology which has insisted on conformity, or we'll cancel you, or you'll lose your job, or you'll be punished and arrested for that tweet that, you know, people have been arrested for tweets about this.

There's been the pushback against that. I think that's good, actually, that partic on this particular subject. But it's allied with other issues, of course. We're not going to be so sympathetic with. So, it's not either or. It's complicated. And I think we need to be more, it's, it's a complicated response.

So, the woke thing, like you mentioned, is something that we're in agreement with. Yeah. It's something that we don't think is compatible with our Islamic values, as they don't think is compatible with their Christian values. It is, however, compatible with the secular liberal values, which they need to decide. Are they going to be in the camp of the Christians?

Oh, really? I don't, I, I don't agree that. Who's, who's the author of the Harry Potter novels?

Um, what's her name?

J.K. J.K. Rowling. You know, she's very famously pushed back against this. As far as I'm aware, she's a secular liberal. She's doing it on other secular liberal grounds, as a feminist, for women's rights, you see. So, it's not like secularism is pro-trans. It's not, can be, but it also can be anti-trans in the name of women's rights. So, several.

I would say she's an exception, though.

But she represents a lot of other women's groups, the women's party, and other feminist MPs also have.

Comparatively speaking, I would say like exceptions don't make the rules. And she, amongst these groups, they're small groups, not very vocal, not very strong, don't have a strong backing. Most of these guys typically, um, I'd say have within their worldview, they have to be inclusive. But that being said, then if you then look at certain atheists, like I don't know their views, like, um, uh.

Well, Dawkins is anti-trans.

He is anti-trans. Hitchens.

He's dead.

Was he pro or anti? Do you remember?

Well, he died a long time ago before trans was an issue, I think.

Oh, okay. Okay. And there's other two of the horsemen.

Oh, the horsemen of the apocalypse.

Yeah. Daniel Dennett and, um, the American.

He's dead as well. Um, I don't know what he thought. I, I don't kind of follow their, their views. But Dawkins is the, the most famous, outspoken kind of guy who's pushed back hard. I don't agree with these exceptional voices, but I'm not going to get into an argument about that. I think they are a significant anti-trans feminist voice here and in the States that exists. It may not be the majority, but it's not just an exceptional voice. And and and it's amplified by the media, and Rowling has a huge following, millions and millions of followers. So, her voice really, you know, transcends her individual views.

Yeah. And I think that's interesting. J.K. Rowling gets that push from Elon Musk's platform, which is on X. So, that kind of plays in with your view, which is that, I mean.

They're not ex, you know, in terms of their expressiveness, they're not necessarily Christian.

Yeah.

Um, a lot of them may be identifying closer to Christianity. I mean, even Dawkins and Cosmic Skeptic. Yeah. They're saying, "Look, we identify more with the cultural aspect of Christianity, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're, uh, adopting Christianity." So.

Douglas Murray as well.

Douglas Murray. Oh, okay.

He's a cultural Christian. He's an atheist. Last, last time I checked, he called himself an atheist.

Yeah. Which is an interesting model that they're following, because that's a model that a lot of Jews have been following, and a lot of Hindus have been following. They say, "We don't, we're not technically Hindus. We're not Jews, but we're Hindu by ethnicity, Jewish by ethnicity."

So, that's an interesting thing that you've got the people in Britain now looking towards these models. Yeah. But that's problematic, because if we look at what the Hindus have been doing in India against the minorities, when we look at what, um, the the Zionists have been doing in Israel, it's very problematic. Do you see that, you know, being projected here in the UK?

I, I can't speak to the Hindu angle on this. I don't really know. I don't.

Not the Hindus. We're looking at that model when they are bringing people into this whole ethnist kind of setup.

If you're, if you're, you know, Hindu by ethnicity, you're, you know, Jewish by ethnicity, therefore this is your country. Any other minority will then be aggressively controlled and maintained.

Yeah, there has, there has been some, uh, views. I, I, I don't know if they're true or not, but we're, I'm entertaining them, which argue that many prominent Jews or Zionist voices in the West have been very pro-multicultural, that therefore, I'm pro-immigrant, and they're against white nationalism, against any kind of nationalism.

But at the same time, when it comes to Israel, these same voices are very pro-Israel, and Israel is is an ethno-nationalist state. So, this has been pointed out that this double standard, you know, we don't, it's not, we will promote multiculturalism except when it comes to us, where we want to be a monocultural Jewish state. You know, you see the contradiction there that's been pointed out. There may, there may be some truth to that. This kind of, and that makes it slightly sinister. Well, why are these people promoting this agenda, but they don't accept it for themselves? That they want other people to have it. So, then that leads to the, the trope that the Jews are trying to, you know, undermine the West in that sense, as an ethnic identity, as, uh, as a. This is a kind of white nationalist argument.

It reminds me of a quote from T.J. Winter, Abd al-Hakim Murad, said that liberalism is ostensibly coercive, that it can't tolerate anything other than itself.

True.

And it kind of just reminded me of that when I heard it. So.

Yes.

Okay. So, that, that's, that's good to know that it's not just Islam and Christianity that's against this. We also have secular liberalists that.

Um, ally with us in this too.

Absolutely. So, that's, that's very good. But generally, on the woke thing, I don't think there's much differences that we have with these, um, quote unquote patriots, that would just want to get their country back. So, one of the things that there is a disagreement upon is the migration issue. So, how can we steelman them when it comes to the migration issue? Because if we look at the current population of the UK, this is affecting less than 1% of the UK. If we're looking at why it's needed, a lot of arguments get put forward that, uh, when it comes to the aging population of the UK, we simply don't have enough taxpayers to, um, serve and assist, um, this aging population. So, we do need an influx of people that help cater for this taxes to support.

Pay taxes to support them. Uh, exactly. And number two, when we look at the NHS, like a significant proportion of the NHS, the doctors and the nurses are people from abroad.

Paul Golding, uh, his father, Paul Golding, is a pretty well-known, very right-wing, I would say, a white nationalist, uh, political leader in the UK, very active.

Well, Britain First. Yeah. Very active indeed on social media. His dad sadly passed away recently, and there's a photograph of him in hospital, uh, which I've seen, and his father, um, okay, so he's in his bed. Paul Golding's there, you know, with his father, who's sadly dying. And in the photograph, you can see the names of the doctors who are attending his father, and most of them are Muslim names, like Muhammad.

And this was pointed out that, you know, his his father is benefiting from Muslim doctors, and yet his son is saying, "Get them out of this country." And that this kind of, you know, discrepancy was pointed out. You know, there's just one micro-cause because the NHS is run by people who other people want them to leave, which would result in the NHS not functioning properly.

Exactly. And many other public services as well. If you look in the construction industry, and you know, um, the, the care homes. Uh, a lot of them rely upon foreigners. Now, here's the thing. Does, do these people know this? Or do they speak out despite not knowing this, because there's something else at play? Like, what do you think?

Well, I think, uh, the more intelligent of these people do realize the problem, and they have a solution which kind of makes sense, and that is people need to have more babies, actually. I mean, and it sounds crude, but they need to get at it and have more children, because then this demographic deficit, as they say, will be answered. So, it's not just a, if you got rid of the immigrants, so to speak, our Britain will collapse. The health service will collapse. The, you know, you're saying other industries would, of course, they would. So, it's a very shortsighted thing. But this goes to the heart of what it is to be a Westerner, because if you're a Westerner, the standard view is you're a feminist. So, women are the same as men. Women go out to work, just like men do, which means basically you're not going to have children. Very few children, uh, you know, the replacement ratio for Italy and Germany and so on is very low for the indigenous population not having children.

Um, and yet we want all the benefits of a modern society, like a functioning NHS, and so on. You're going to have to suck in other people then to do it. So, the system is built on a contradiction in that, in that way. We want to have the blessings without the, the actual lifestyles that would enable it to remain, in inverted commas, England or Germany or France or Italy.

Yeah.

So, it's unworkable, really.

But I don't see this in one of the policies of Reform that, you know, we're going to encourage Britain to,

You know what I mean? Like, we're going to take away contraceptions, we're going to, you know.

Open more clinics and we're going to.

Contraceptions.

Yeah. We're going to increase lunch breaks and that.

Or taxation. You, you, you one simple answer is you, you actually incentivize the whole thing by saying, well, if you're a stay-at-home mom, you have kids, then we will give you big tax breaks. So, it becomes financially. This is a very obvious thing to do. The Italians did it under Mussolini in the 1930s, actually, to build the Italian population. They incentivized it.

And Reform's not doing this, right?

Well, I don't know. I, I'm not at all familiar with Reform's economic policies, but I imagine not, because then it's too controversial. But there again, he's not stepping outside of the box to think about real solutions. It's just tinkering at the edges, you see.

So, forgive my ignorance. So, this is a subject that I'm not very, um, familiar with. So, I'm learning a lot from the two of you. So, I appreciate that. But in terms of Reform, for example, and if I'm going elsewhere, just re me and Zishan. So, it's when I, whenever I look at Reform, I always, it always feels like slogans as opposed to policy. Like, what, what policies do they even have? It just feels like these great, these great sound bites that people can rally behind and people support that sound bite. And you see it on LBC, for example. I think James O'Brien, when he usually kind of digs in with the callers, um, and actually then tries to strip back what the policy is, no one has an answer.

I'm, I'm doing anything about Reform, really. I don't really care about the. I don't like Farage. I think he's, you know, an oily snake salesman, it's called. I don't like him. Um, that, that is ad hominem, by the way. Um, but, you know, I, I don't know the policies. The thing is, the cliché is, a week is a long time in politics. And, yeah, they're riding high in the polls today. You know, how many years before there's going to be an election in the UK? Anything can happen.

Yeah. I definitely think Reform and Conservative, the way the migration thing is going, is becoming more and more entrenched. Like, if you look at the, I mean, Hope Not Hate published a report last year. If you're looking at the stats, migration and lack of Britishness is inextricably linked to anti-Muslim sentiment.

And it makes sense, um, because you've got all of these, um, state actors that are outside of the UK. It's within their interest to fracture the UK. And especially if you look at, say, Israel, it takes attention away from what's going on there by blaming, "Look, we're helping everybody. We're doing a public service. These Muslims are like this, and this Muslim, these Muslims are like this."

I mean, from 2008 to about 2013, there was a study posted by K, uh, and the University of California, and they looked and saw $200 million was spent on about 70 anti-Islamic think tanks.

Wow.

So, that's a lot of funding that's going into it. I mean, there's some popular ones that we're aware of, Henry Jackson, amongst many others. So, there is definitely a concerted effort to make Muslims look bad. Yeah. To make Muslims look like they are the root cause of this issue, this, this problem. And frankly, we're not doing ourselves any justice, because anytime something happens, what do we do? We have to rely on the mainstream media. We have to rely on these social media platforms. These social media platforms that are being purchased, um, in front of everybody in broad daylight by pro-Israel actors like Larry Ellison. Larry Ellison owns Oracle. He has literally been handed TikTok on a silver platter, and then now he's trying to get, I think it's Warner Brothers or Paramount. If that then happens, he is somebody that gave and literally pals with Netanyahu and literally offered Oracle to him on a plate as well. So, these things are not conspiracies. They're there.

Yeah.

You know, for the public to see, like your countries are being taken at that level, the higher level, by these foreign state actors. The whole issue with APAC was that, oh, we're not going to register it as a foreign organization. Yeah. We're going to just accept it as part of the American identity. But that, but this is a big issue. Sami Hamdi said the same thing, or Hamidi.

Hi.

Hi. He said the same thing. He said, "14 days I was there, and I could see there was a tussle between the Israel First lobby and America First guys." So, this is an individual, grassroots, and he, this is the feedback that he's seeing and he's getting. You go higher. You look at Tucker Carlson, and he was in an interview with somebody who's saying, "Yeah, all these Republican guys have an APAC guy, somebody that's literally telling them, controlling them, pulling the strings." So, I definitely see this getting worse, because frankly, we don't have anything substantial to swing, to swing the pendulum the other way. We don't have, um, the, the news backing. We don't have the media backing. And frankly, the countries that used to fund certain initiatives, Saudi, Kuwait, the likes, the funding stopped, and they're too worried about the whole tourism industry and how to keep their countries afloat without relying too much on oil. But when it comes to, uh, migration per se, let's steelman these guys for a second. Like, do they have a concern there? Like, what's their strongest concern that you would say from their side, steelmanning it?

Gosh. Well, I think there's a range of concerns. There's a concern that Britain is not becoming, is, is losing its identity, actually. And, uh.

And how do they say that?

Well, mean, how, I mean, it various ways it manifests, uh, in the presence of Muslims and other people. Um, so it's not easy to articulate off.

I'll give you an example. I'll give you an example. So, here's the sort of things that they do. Recently, a stamp came out. Yeah. This was literally yesterday. And the stamp, it's one of the Royal Mail Christmas stamps, and it depicted Mary as wearing a hijab and being brown complexioned. Yeah. Right.

They're saying they've made Mary a Muslim now.

Yeah. Mary is a Muslim.

That's hilarious, because Mary in Western art is always portrayed wearing a head, let's not call it hijab in this case, a headscarf.

Headscarf.

Hijab is an Arabic word, you know, uh, wearing a headscarf. This is the normative Western artistic portrayal of Mary. The fact that she is brown, well, uh, yeah, she's from Palestine, you know, she's not Anglo-Saxon. So, that's, you know, and but the West has traditionally portrayed her as white. If you go into the Clark galleries, you'll see her. Doesn't look very Palestinian at all. But so, this is perfectly or legitimate to have those stamps in that way. The fact that they had that reaction shows an extraordinary, um, you know, uh, overlooking some basic historical facts. And I think it's hilarious. I looked that up actually, literally happened yesterday. Funny about a week ago. Uh, there was this big controversy surrounding Tesco, that they were calling Christmas trees evergreen trees.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Well, indeed. That is that is silly. Yeah. So, so you've got a lot of these things that are used and put forward by.

Okay, I call them far.

I'm going to say something really controversial and not very pleasant. A lot of these people have low, to be honest, have low, have low IQs.

They're not very intelligent.

Because an intelligent person would know that Mary in art always, in art, is represented wearing a headscarf. A judgment person that would know that Mary was a Jew from the Middle East and not Anglo-Saxon. It's only a particular kind of stupid person that would take offense at that. An intelligent person, educated person would never respond like that. So, I mean, we're dealing here with a lot of stupid people, to be honest, rather than it's not like they have a, how, how could you, how could we steelman stupidity? You know, I mean, it's impossible. You know, we got to call it out. This is silly. And just think about it for five seconds. I'm not going to dignify that with a steelman response because it's stupid.

Yeah. Go on.

Sometimes it feels like even if they know that Mary, for example, does wear a, a head, a head veil or whatever, a habit, let's call it, or whatever, whatever it might be.

Um.

Because the ideology that they're rallying behind is so strong and visceral, they're almost willing to overlook things which are, you know, historical facts. Trying to explain it in a positive way. A lot of these people are just stupid, actually. They're ignorant, and they just don't know. They probably never been in an art gallery. They have no idea what I've just said is true. Um, and so it's, we can't steelman stupidity. We must call it out. There are other more, in inverted commas, you know, plausible things to their worry about, you know, people worried about immigration, for example, over-loading housing or health service. These, these are more kind of real issues that one can discuss. But that issue is just silly. It's, you, you know, with, um, and and that's what exposure does and traveling and allowing you to sort of broaden your horizons to see what cultures look like, especially if you're representing a religion. So, Christianity is a very vast and wide religion that spans the whole globe, and you'll see Christians coming in different forms. But Orthodox Christians, for example, if you go to Jerusalem, you go to the house of Mary, um, you go down the stairs, and there's a lady sitting there in an abaya and a hijab. And the only way you can tell she's a Christian is if you look very closely, there's a cross there. I remember the first time that I, I went and walked in, I just, my natural instinct was, "Oh, salam alaikum, sister. Can I just."

And then she kind of looked at me and just looked down at her cross to say, "I'm a Christian." But equally, when you go to Masa, for example, and you go through Lion's Gate, which is the Christian quarter, if you're wearing a hat as a man, and you have a large beard, and you're wearing a robe, they will stop you and ask you, "Are you a Muslim?" Because Christian Orthodox men look exactly the same. And so, it's about people broadening their horizons and understanding that there is a, a very, there's a big spectrum of how people look. But this is why I feel like it's more sort of agenda-driven as opposed to it being viably religious. I think that's just an excuse. There definitely is reaching taking place here. There definitely is reaching when it comes to these things. But I do understand their frustration because with that, they, they say and they claim that, oh, these people are coming with their own religion and their own values. And let's face it, the average person gets their Christmas tree, puts stamps on their letters, and they do these sorts of things, however mundane it sounds to us, but those are the things that they relate with the most. And let's just say for the last 20, 30 years plus, stamps have always depicted Mary to be white.

Yeah. Christmas trees have always been called Christmas trees. Things have, they're clear. Like when it's Christmas time, it's Christmas turkey, it's this, it's that. And suddenly there's a shift. Now, if there is immense talk of migration, then they're going to, you know, was it correlation is not always causation, but for them, it is because migration is top of the thing. Oh, it must be those guys, they must be the ones, you know, doing it. Because if you look on their pages, oh, Sadiq Khan is the mayor. Oh, the ex-mayor of Brighton was also a Muslim. Or the Home Secretary, the one responsible for stopping these boats, is a brown woman that used to participate in these pro-Palestinian marches. So, these guys are the ones in control. When, let's face it, these people are figureheads.

They're not really shaping policy. They're there to just face or, you know, be the face to certain things that are rolled out, decided by the people actually in power. But why are they called evergreen trees? If there was a big demand of people of practicing Christians buying these trees, then why on earth would Tesco risk their profit margin? The reason is because obviously more people are going away from Christianity. More people are celebrating, uh, Christmas just because it's, it's a holiday. Yeah. They come from more secular liberal backgrounds, non-religious backgrounds. Rather than seeing this as a threat, because you, there's no caricature of it, it hasn't, you know, constantly being smashed in the media. Who does get smashed in the media? It's the Muslim. So, surely it must be their fault.

Could it be this sort of insidious nature of what liberalism tries to do in terms of making everything inclusive? So, calling an evergreen evergreen tree as opposed to a Christmas tree, not to alienate anybody. I think there was something about Father Christmas once. They wanted to take the father part out of it.

I, I'm sure there was something. I can't remember it, but it was almost to, to make him, you know, neither a male or a female, or not necessarily androgynous, but more evoke thing.

Yeah. It probably, but, but almost like this kind of, it's for everyone.

Yeah.

And we're not alienating everyone. But that's now coming at the behest of somebody who sees this as culture and tradition. You don't have to be a Christian to to see these things as very, you know, as representing Christmas.

You know, what's next? They're going to take the turkey out and put something else there. I don't know. You know.

None of these things have anything to do with Christmas. Christians understand it. There's no mention of Christmas trees in the Bible, uh, or Christmas pudding or turkeys. These are all much later cultural things. So, there's nothing to do with religion, really. This is something else.

But what I mean is, I'm trying to just, you know, talk from their their lens, which is like, this is culturally their identity.

Yeah. This is our idea. This is what we know. This is what we do. You know, I, I want to go to a specific shop and buy my crackers and, and what not. You know, that's been taken away.

Here's what they don't understand. That Tesco and these companies don't care about your religion, don't care about, you know, I mean, your, they care about profit margins. I get it. You know, the word Tesco, where the word Tesco comes from.

Where does it come from?

It's, it's a, it's a composite word. I forget. Um, I think it was Lady, uh, Porter, who used to be the leader of Westminster Council. She's now living in Israel. She's Jewish. But one of, I think it was a husband or something. Uh, the Tesco, the Co bit refers to Cohen, is a Jewish company. And Tesco, I forget, is another name. So, it's, it's a, a composite word that comes ultimately from the Jewish owners. Interesting. Uh, yeah, you can Google it. But, but as a relative of.

Because I live in.

Westminster, Lady Porter, the former mayor here, and she was indicted for all sorts of stuff. She just simply went to live in Israel and she's never been prosecuted. But that's that's another story.

Yeah. Yeah. No, very interesting to know.

So, pertaining migration, Paul.

Yeah. So, let's let's let's get to the legitimate issues then. Like you're saying, the the intelligent issues, the ones that actually the people with the head screwed on properly, what would you say are the legitimate concerns? Let's deal with those.

Well, if if I was a, let's put, excuse me, let's frame this differently. If I was a Japanese person in Japan, if I was a Nigerian, if I was a Pakistani in Pakistan, or any other comparable country, and I, and there was a sudden influx of English men and women moving into Karachi or Tokyo or wherever, living in the town, thousands and thousands of English people suddenly moved into my neighborhood in Pakistan or my neighborhood in Tokyo. How would I feel as a Pakistani or as a Japanese person? How would I feel? Welcome. Welcome. Come in, more, more, more English people. Please, please live, you know, and have your culture. Have your Tesco, your Waitrose. Have your celebration of King of England. Have your celebration of Bonfire Night. Is that okay? Or would people feel a little bit threatened by that? Would they feel, yep, yep, yep, you're saying, would they feel that there's something being threatening? There's a little bit of a threat here. Identity has been challenged. Who are these people? I personally didn't invite. Do you know what I mean? If you take it away from the kind of British context and try and reimagine it in the Japanese/Pakistani or whatever you think of where there isn't a homogeneous population, then does the point get made? Do you understand what I'm saying?

You hear the Japanese saying this as well about when tourists come over, they're like, look, you need to respect the customs because people sort of seem to break those.

Criticize the Japanese for being racist.

They have nobody. Yeah.

So, so here's now the thing. This term "racist." That anytime someone is speaking out against the migration thing, they get labeled as racist. That, I think, is a cop-out. Yeah. It maybe there might be some connection with the people that used to talk about the migration narrative back in the days. Yes, they shared the racist rhetoric as well. However, I think to jump to the racist card, it's it's a cop-out. It doesn't really deal with the issue at hand. However, the point that you mentioned, and obviously, we'll unpack that because UAE, if we look at their immigration policies, they're 70% foreign, and they don't have issues with foreigners coming in. Why? Because it's been done in a more, uh, in a more consistent, in a more controlled, in a more strategic manner, which maybe some can argue in the UK, it hasn't been done like that. But it would be interesting to see why some people make this claim because indeed, in Japan, they're simply not used to having an influx of foreigners. So that's why very recently, I think there was a policy that was being put forward because they wanted to have an influx of, uh, Indian, Indian migrants and workers coming in, and there were issues. There were definitely issues.

What about Pakistan? Because your Pakistani ancestry, how would it feel if a whole bunch of English people decided to...

I think it depends that because Pakistan struggles in a number of industries. A lot of corporations in Pakistan are actually foreign. Yeah. And a lot of local people don't get to benefit. Yeah. Whether it's the telecommunications, whether it's certain kinds of corporations, in terms of, I mean, there's many industries. So if it's done in a way that like the UAE have done it, strategic migration, um, but I, I don't think that's really going to work. Like Pakistan isn't necessarily offering something that they wouldn't be able to get elsewhere because Pakistan itself is struggling. Let's assume no. What I meant is if a million Frenchmen or...

Yeah. Yeah. This year.

I'm talking about demographic change here, not about, you know, whether or not companies, you know, share their. If a million Frenchmen, um, uh, decides to move into Karachi or something, how will that be received? Oh, great, there's no problem. Or I mean...

If they are filling in the gaps within certain industries and we see that Pakistan is struggling in, say, the, say, the care sector or the NHS working in the care sector, are you? I mean, living there.

No, but a million people won't just go into Karachi. Like, if Pakistan imports a million people just into Karachi, that's not very sensible.

So you're saying it wouldn't be a problem. So Pakistan with mass immigration from different cultures?

But if I can speak to that on a on a lower level, which is, I, I get what you're saying because, and we're just being objective here. These are not necessarily our views. We're just trying to give a a balanced opinion. Um, if, for example, that did happen, let's say 100, let's say, you know, an influx of the English came into Pakistan, and at first, it would probably be welcome because I think there is a, there's this sort of colonial residual baggage that's left there, this inferiority complex, where they'll probably welcome it at first. But if things start changing, Zashan, for example, where now, you know, people are, you know, selling pork on the streets, there's alcohol that's rife now, and because that's part of English culture to be able to eat what they, you know, they can eat pork, that's absolutely fine, they can drink, that's part of the culture, to build pubs, etcetera, whatever it might be.

And women not wearing their clothes during the summer. And so all of a sudden, yeah, you've got this conservative neighborhood with mosques on every corner, madrasas, etcetera. And now there's like a pub on one corner, there's people sort of, you know, enjoying, drunk and being violent after closing time, which is, yeah. And then you've got women walking in the streets dressed a specific way. And now that culture has changed. How, how would you then feel living in that neighborhood thinking, you know, our codes, our conventions, our, you know, moral standpoint is now under threat. We've got to do something about this. It's a, it's quite a natural.

So, so here's now the thing. Uh, when it comes to Pakistan, if they're doing the strategic, uh, accepting strategic migrants like the way UAE is, that there are certain kinds of sectors that are lacking, and we're bringing people in strategically, that that wouldn't, that wouldn't have an effect at all. There wouldn't be an issue at all. However, if Pakistan was responsible for, uh, colonizing 90% of the globe, yeah, and then not only affecting it, but then crippling it, and like David Cameron, when he went to India, he said, you know what, we apologize because we've been responsible for, for a lot of the issues.

Oh, wow, did you say that?

Yeah, he said that. It was in the Telegraph. I screenshotted it. So if, if let's just say Pakistan admits that now there is a responsibility that they hold because of the pillaging and, you know, the damage that they've done to their colonial underlings. So if Pakistan's done that, number two, if now people, their passports are weak because they're under sanctions because of Pakistan, they're sanctioning other people, they're constantly in wars. Like Ian Cobain says that in the last 100 years, the UK, there hasn't been a single year that the UK has not been interfering in any other country. Yeah. Pakistan hasn't. Yeah. But let's just say Pakistan has. Every year, they're fiddling around with other countries. Again, that responsibility compounds then because there's a bit of a disanalogy here because according to secular liberal values here in the UK, it's okay for you to practice your religion. It's okay for you to open your mosques. It's okay for you to do this. In our countries, it's not. And that's the laws that they have. Now, according to the UK laws, it's fine for you to open your mosques and this and that. And the mosques don't get opened without the permission of the council and the law. So it's all done above and above board. Then on top of that, when you're talking about say the grooming that takes place, all these foreigners are coming here, the grooming, are women wearing this and that. Okay. But is that just the foreigners? Or what are the women saying about the grooming that's taking place?

There is a problem. I'll I'll tell you who these people are in a second, but I want to begin with the rhetoric and then I'll mention who they are. The rhetoric is this: there is a group of foreigners who are having a disproportionate influence on our country, on its customs, on its culture, on our economics. They're changing. They're influencing our children, often in very crass ways, in ways that... Do you know who I'm talking about?

It's not the Jews. It's America.

The United States.

Yeah, that's that's quite interesting. Through through through their movies, through their culture, through our restaurants, through everything, through our clothing, even the food we eat, the McDonald'sization of our culture. If you want to talk about an influence of a foreign power, foreign people, on our culture, and ditto for France and so on, it's the United States. They have far more influence than Pakistanis do on our culture. In that sense, it pervades everything. It does. Even our foreign policy, even our ability to govern ourselves is is warped by our allegiance to the United States in terms of foreign policy. If you want to worry about foreigners, look across the pond at Washington. That's where the biggest influence comes from.

And no one ever speaks about that or the influence of of America on Britain. Excuse me. It's so pervasive that no one even mentions it anymore. I think, do you feel there is something about the US having such a strong cultural identity through, I, I used to call it hamburgers and Hollywood, like what you were just mentioning, where we've become so accustomed to taking from that culture that it almost feels wrong to oppose it. Recently, with Halloween, you know, when I was a kid, and there's nothing like this now, it's completely Americanized. It's become a major consumer thing with the skeletons and all this rest of it. But this is pure Americana. If you go to the States, that's what they do. We've imported it and no one says anything about it.

Yeah. Even proms. There never used to be proms in schools here. And I remember that's...

Yeah. My young cousins going, "Oh, we're going to the prom?" I was like, "What? There's proms here?" Like, it's...

But just to just to complete that point, in the UK, two women are murdered per week by their partner and ex-partner. Yeah. In 2022, more women were killed by their sons than by strangers. And one in two rapes are carried out by partners and ex-partners. Yeah. 90% unknown to the victim.

Yeah.

Now, these statistics are the ones that these feminists put forward, and rightly so. So now what we're looking at is the right wing or the people that care about the country, they want to ignore the majority of the issue that's taking place because, as Elo Cobain said, who, uh, is somebody that is very good when it comes to these kind of grooming talks, and she's written quite a few papers on it. I think what she was saying was that this is an actual policing issue. The police and the system in place has not done justice to the victims of rape.

Now suddenly a niche of a niche of grooming, which is, that's it's not even a technical term.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's actually group-based child sexual exploitation. That's the technical term.

So they want to take a niche of a niche and say, "Oh, you know what, it's these guys." And automatically to the to the public, it seems like, "Oh, it's just the the brown people that are, you know, doing this." But numerous reports have come out that have debunked this, the NPCC, the Home Office report, and the likes. But the nub of the issue is that the police are not doing their job. Yeah, like they should be. And this is a big, big issue. So let's just say, going back to the example of Pakistan, if now grooming and this and that is now becoming prevalent, look at the root issue. The root issue is this is something that's permissible within your law. Like over here, the drinking culture and all of this, that's normal. That happens over there. It doesn't. So let's just say you're going against the law in that country and people are getting away with it. What happens now?

Well, it's up to the police. It's up to the authorities. And if you are not dealing with the issues and you're constantly importing people and saying, you know what, AI is all right, and you know, we got to be more multicultural and this and that, that's the issue. The issue is not migration. The issue is not asylum seekers because asylum seekers, they're not breaking the law. Asylum seekers that come within international law, they are allowed to seek refuge. Yeah. They're not breaking the law. These people coming in by boats and this that, yeah, what happens when they come in by boats? They have to register, then they get put up, and then there's that asylum process that that has to kind of unfold. But then what happens after that? Oh, these people aren't working. Okay. Are you allowing them to work?

So that's why I'm saying that when when people, because I know a lot of these, uh, patriots sometimes say, "Oh, would it be permissible in Pakistan? Would it be in in Saudi Arabia?" And this, but it's a complete different system over there.

Do these patriots have the same type of zeal when it comes to this generally? I'm just asking a question. Do they have the same type of zeal when it comes to how much we fund Ukraine for example, or how much we we're funding other wars? Because it almost feels like this thing just hung in the front like a magician would to then do the slight of hand behind and it was like, "Oh, we're just focused on the rabbit here," but all the actions happening at the back. I remember even when we were taking money out of our banks, we were going to Tesco. We were going to these places that, you know, what happened, bro? After you finished your purchase, "Oh, do you want to donate 30p to Ukraine?" "Oh, do you want to, um, donate 50p to Ukraine?" I just want to get my baguette and get out of it. You know what I mean? Like, why are you asking me to donate to Ukraine? Are they doing the same when it comes to Palestine? Of course not.

Yeah.

And is there any wonder why they're probably not? Because Mr. Cohen is maybe influencing...

The founder of Tesco, I've just looked it up on Google, the AI overview. His founder was a guy called Cohen, Jack Cohen. And, uh, supplier who supplied him was a guy called Thomas Edward Stockwell. Um, and the, uh, so the name Tesco comes from an abbreviation with the founder Cohen's surname and a T, uh, supplier. So the first three letters, TES, comes from Thomas Edward Stockwell. Anyway, so it's a combined name. Um, yeah.

Interesting.

So, so when it comes to demographic change, I mean, the last stats that I saw was, if you're looking holistically, 16% of the UK is made out of, uh, immigrants. 44% actually come by a family visa. Yeah. A family visa. They don't claim benefits. That's 44% of these, uh, immigrants. However, if you look, 6% are the refugees and asylum seekers. Yeah. They're the ones that get mentioned the most. 14% student visa, 29% work visa, 44% family visa. So again, they're coming through legitimate means. They're being allowed in.

It was a legacy of empire as well, you know, Pakistanis and others, Indians. This used to be the British Empire, and they saw Britain as the mother, the mother country, and they were welcome on those terms. So there was there was a kind of idea of a family, a commonwealth of nations here. They weren't just aliens, part of this British Commonwealth of nations, yeah. Um, so that's the kind of basis that they understood, you know, there was a kind of loyalty. You mentioned this residual order in Pakistan, but it comes to this sense of empire. So this is part of the heritage of that, I think.

Yeah. And also the, I, I touched upon this when they say, "Okay, don't come to the UK." They go, "Okay, where else can we go?" "Oh, no, use your passport." Go through legitimate. Our passport doesn't work on in in other places. If you look at the process that we actually have to go through, the Pakistani saying, or say the Syrian, not even Pakistan, that's then they haven't really been involved in any major conflict, like say Syria or Yemen or Afghanistan. These people have the weakest passports in the world. They are even in terms of tourism. Yeah. When you go there, barely anyone will even decide to go there. Who wants to go on holiday to Afghanistan? Yay. Let's pack our bags. Like, there's this kind of notion that, you know, it's simply not going to be safe there. Yeah. So they can't make their money back through kind of the tourism industry. Then when even when you're there, things like people are struggling hand-to-mouth. The sanctions are debilitating. A lot of people don't know when it comes to the sanctions that Afghanistan has gone through, it is very, very problematic. And that's why Syria has taken a different approach. You know what, we have to get these sanctions off us, otherwise, you know, we're not going to be able to move, and we're just going to be like Afghanistan. So again, like, even we use Pakistan as an example, the people there, you speak to them, they're like, "It's just not working. Like, we, our money has barely any value here. We simply cannot work properly. There's so much foreign influence." Okay, where do we go now? Where can we go? Okay, some of our grandfathers or, you know, our relatives are there in that country, and they say, you know, we're doing well. Okay, that's, that's where we're going to go. Like somebody else's biggest corner. They, they said to me, you know what, saying to me, bro, you need to leave our country. This, that. I said, you know what? Okay, I'll do it. I'll leave.

You're a pushover, basically, aren't you? You're pretty easy.

But then I gave a condition.

All right. Okay.

And the condition was, he said he just couldn't help himself. He goes, a short while later, he's like, "Yeah, but when it comes to Pakistan, you guys got to stop allying with China." I said, "Oh, no, no, no, no. You don't get to decide who we ally with, who we don't ally with. Like that's on a state level. You can't decide this for us." "No, but then you're going to do this and you, we have to interfere." I said, "Oh, ho ho ho." So this is my condition. Yeah. I'll go if you don't interfere in our countries.

If you don't interfere, then we won't go. Because I think there was the speaker who was also saying, "You guys have a problem with migration, immigration, whatever you want to call it. We also have an issue. It's called invasion. You coming into our countries, setting up corporations, you know, Blackwater and all of these mercenaries coming in, raping our women, and you know, then imposing sanctions on us. We're tired as well. How about that? How about you stop interfering there, then we'll stop coming here? Because if our countries are left allowed to grow and flourish, then there's no need for us to leave. Why would you see an influx of, you know, well-off Saudis and Emiratis coming over here? No, they actually come, they invest, they build, and then they leave."

Yeah.

Yeah. It's literally like their holiday home. But for these poor countries, where again, the argument can be made that the leader of Pakistan, Imran Khan, he said himself, yes, it's the American British, you know, influence, and that's, you know, what, you know, speaking against that is causing me issues.

Yeah.

And then now he's still in jail.

He is. Yeah. And Pakistan, you literally cannot say and comment on Pakistani politics without now it affecting you actually going in and coming out. Yeah. Like it's become a very much police state. Why? Because their leader has been put in prison. Why? Because he's speaking out against foreign influence. So it's not as simple as, you know what, what if it happened over there, or what would you guys do? Or this? No. UK, America has a very unique position, and they continue to exploit that unique position.

Oh, no, no. They, they want to come because of our culture. They want to come. Although I agree with what you're saying, and I think the West is supremacist and racist, by the way. I, I do believe that's something I've changed my mind on in recent years because of Palestine, but that's a separate thing. I, I think there is another view though, which is slightly different, which pushes back against what you're saying. Although what you're saying is true, that, you know, we still like Britain still likes to play the imperial role even though we don't have an empire anymore, and we still like to interfere and dictate Pakistan, you name it, all this is true. But when it comes to immigration into the UK, the argument goes that it's not the elites, those who have directed this state policy, that suffer. It is the white working class, for example, in Britain's cities and their neighborhoods. You know, they are the, they bear the brunt of this.

Yeah.

And the white working class, by definition, are not the rulers historically. And yet they're the people who, so people like Tony Blair and these elites don't live in these areas. They live in fancy areas like Islington or Hampstead, or if they live in the UK at all now, live abroad. So there is a sense that we overlook the, the on the ground, the real world consequences that that people do experience demographic change. It doesn't matter to them. And then to say, "Oh, well, your empire and all that." Well, yeah, but they were never in power in the first place. This is the working class. They may have supported it because, hey, nationalism, royal family, and all that whips up this kind of pseudo-patriotic stuff, but still, they're not directly responsible, the argument goes. So, how would you respond to that?

So, I would say one needs to look at the figures because if you look at the figures, 80% plus of Muslims are very patriotic. They feel like, you know, they feel British. They follow the law. They, they want to be a part of this country and the culture that comes with it. So the stats don't stack up when they try and make it seem like these foreigners come, they don't want to integrate, they don't want to do this and they don't. No, they have. What the, the fact that about 25% of doctors in the NHS are Asians, South Asians, Asians, it goes to show that not only are they integrating, but they are helping the society grow as well. And when you actually look at the growing grooming stats and the, I mean, we were speaking on the way here, the phone snatching and all of that taking place, and the most Sadiq Khan can do is just, you know, paint, paint, uh, you know, a line to say, "Oh, you know, don't go the other side," or just be vigilant.

Where are the police?

What are they doing?

Yeah. Oh, no, we're having to cut the police. Okay. Why are we cutting the police? Where's the money going? Oh, the, the money is going to fund, um, this national interest in this country and that country. Okay. Which country? Oh, Israel. Okay. Like, we know about Elbit Systems and the likes that even though they were giving that whole rhetoric in parliament, yes, they, they're not doing this and they, they shouldn't be doing this. What, what then happened? The planes, British planes were still going there. Weapons were still being sold. It was merely a facade.

Yeah.

Yeah. So police forces are being cut again because Britain was is helping the whole Ukraine thing because it's part of NATO and it's got its fingers in a lot of pies, even the involvement in Syria and, you know, Yemen and all of these sorts of things. So when people look at, "Oh, why is this suddenly being allowed to happen?" No, it's not suddenly being allowed to happen. It's just being put forward and highlighted more by certain people. For example, one such thing that we mentioned was X. The algorithm favors this rhetoric of the other. The, you know, the other is bad. Muslim crimes are actually highlighted more than any other demographic. Yeah. They said this even before Georgia State University said when a Muslim commits a terrorist attack or something, he gets four and a half times more coverage than somebody of any other religion or ethnicity. It wouldn't be called a terrorist attack then anyway. Even if it's a comparable attack, it would not be called terrorism. It's only Muslims. Only Muslims commit terrorist acts by definition. Even though other people do exactly the same thing.

Yeah. And very recently, I think this was about two weeks ago.

They called him the most prolific child/adult sex abuser. He's somebody called Nathan Husband, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. It was...

Her name's Husband. His name's Husband.

What's his wife's name?

Probably...

Carol. Wife.

Carol W.

So he's the most prolific in this thing. He's a white guy. He used to be a church minister.

Oh, that's sweet.

He's actually, his numbers are higher than Jimmy Savile's.

Yeah. If you actually read what he's actually done, absolute despicable. But people don't know his name. Had it been...

I first heard of Mr. Husband and his wife, Mrs. Something.

Mrs. Why? This is why.

So the, the irony here is this is a guy who used to preach Christianity. He actually had a status within Christianity amongst their kind of people, a minister. You don't just become a minister by just picking up a Bible and quoting a few verses. Yeah. Now, this guy, even though there are clear Bible verses that are very questionable, or if you rape a girl, then you just pay the father 50 shekels and then you're not allowed to divorce her.

You say rape, you've been saying that all along. That's obviously to avoid YouTube triggering. You're talking about raping people. I thought raping people, but throwing grapes at them or something.

Flicking a... Is this a new sin? I didn't realize that. So, okay.

Yeah, this gets used a lot.

Death by slur on TikTok. To just buy grapes. Yeah.

So...

I see.

So in essence, you raping somebody according to the Old Testament, what happens is you get rewarded. You've raped somebody, now you get to live with them for the rest of your life. Just give 50 shekels to the father. Just shut him up, which is enough today. You can get like a happy meal for that much. Yeah. Not very expensive. So, okay, we, we can make the same kind of connections there. So many headlines about thousands of children being abused in German churches, Austrian churches, in Pennsylvania, in Ireland, in Italy. I've got screenshots of these articles on BBC and mainstream media. Does anybody blame Christianity? Does anybody say it's because of these guys? Even though there is an influx of white people going into Gambia and abusing children, white people going to Thailand and abusing them. No, no, no, no. They're the expats, and they're, you know, tourists. They're visitors that are going and, you know, these are individuals.

But you guys, you're working in gangs. Okay. So, that. So, if you're a gang, that makes it worse. Yes. What about the Glasgow 7? They were all white. They worked in a gang. NPCC said it's one of the worst things that we've seen. Something along these lines. But no, no, no. We don't want to talk about that. No one knows about those guys.

It's not beneficial.

What about the Cornwall gang? All white. No, no, we don't want to be, don't, don't white. It's brownies that are coming over here stealing our jobs. That's that's what they're doing. So, so when we're looking at the actual issue, yeah, the police force being cut. Yeah. Women when they call the police, you know, most likely the person that attacked them is somebody that they're familiar with, not a foreigner. It's normally from the home. Yeah. And even we mentioned this, we touched upon this, this notion of not procreating.

All right, Dave Trace, what do you want me to do? What do you, what do you want me to do to get you guys to? Okay, let's just say I'm stopping you from procreating. Yeah. It's me. Yeah. Okay. What do I do? Trace, she's at work. Dave, he's at work. They come home. They're busy. You know, he's watching the football, boozing out of his skull. She's doing whatever she's doing. How is that my fault? What am I doing?

Do you... No, no, no. But it's your people that are coming in and they're having kids. Okay. That's because we believe in what the Bible says, but go forth and multiply. You know, it's following the Bible.

It's because we drink buffalo's milk and almonds. That's why. And eat almonds.

Can we have subtitles?

Sorry. Yeah, that's these pound buffalo that homogenized crack.

And almonds.

Yeah.

You know, just...

Sorry, this is us digressing.

No, no. Um, there's an interesting tweet here, um, that Dilly Hussein from Five Pillars retweeted. So, uh, he was commenting on a tweet, uh, presumably by one of these, uh, patriots. "How sad is this? It's a picture of a church, a beautiful church, now a mosque." Okay, there's a lovely church here, apparently going to be turned into a mosque. So Dilly Hussein says, "Football stadiums never get converted because they're packed week in, week out. Churches get converted to clubs, cafes, gyms, and mosques because they're empty. 3,500 churches have closed down in Britain since 2015. Fill up churches, not football stadiums." This is an analogous point. Yeah.

Oh, look at they're taking over our churches. Well, actually, go to church then, you know. Absolutely. The demographic issues. Will have babies then, you know, it involves a proactivity on behalf of the the native population if they want to stop this. But as, as he rightly says, churches get involved, turn into clubs and cafes and gyms and whatever, not just mosques. And why shouldn't mosques? You know, it's an empty building left derelict for years, turning into a house of prayer. Why should we be objecting to that?

So here's now the thing. This is a fair tactic that's been used by the Christians to fill up their churches, to bring the people, the converts back that they have lost. But the thing with the fair tactic is, it may populate the church. It may rally people around the church. However, how many of those people actually believe in the theological inaccuracies? It's suddenly not going to make the Trinity okay. It's suddenly not going to solve the issues that Christianity has been facing for, you know, centuries. That's what you need to work on. You need to work on your Dawah. You need to work on your argumentation. You need to work on this stuff rather than taking the backdoor approach. "Oh, you know what, it's easy for us to just otherize and say, you know what, it's actually them. It's not Christianity. They've come and they've done this." And you know, but that doesn't fix the, in bro. Gregory of Nyssa called the Trinity on the first page, "not three gods, a monstrous dilemma." They want to talk about dilemmas. This dilemma and that dilemma, your own. I mean, he's one of the Cappadocian Fathers, one of the three that was responsible for formulating...

I've never heard a Muslim actually mention Gregory of Nyssa before, so I'm just gobsmacked.

Yeah, yeah. So he's one of the three Cappadocian Fathers that was responsible for formulating the Nicene Creed, exactly. Not the Nicene Creed, that was long, long before. He, they developed the doctrine of the Trinity.

The doctrine of the Trinity. But he was definitely instrumental to the Council of Nicaea.

No, he lived long as the Nicene was in the 4th century. He lived long afterwards.

Gregory of Nyssa.

Yeah, yeah. He wasn't, he wasn't in 350 AD. He wasn't alive then. As much as...

Okay. So, let's just say somebody that is very instrumental when it comes to Trinity as we know it today. Yeah. The, the, the way we understand it today. This is an individual that is very key pertaining that. And this is an individual that's saying, you know, this is a monstrous dilemma, mate. You can't talk about the Trinity without mentioning this guy and referencing his works. Like he is integral.

But then, no, but this Pakistani is coming over here. This guy's coming over here and you know, he's taking your job. Therefore, come to church. Yeah. But how did the Trinity and I don't understand how it works. It doesn't matter, mate. The brownie is over there. So you got to be sitting over here and shut your mouth. Oh, why are we, why are we singing in the church? Did Jesus do this?

Well, this is it. Yeah.

No, no, Jesus didn't do this. Yeah. So just be... He was active as bishop towards the end of the 4th century. The Council of Nicaea, obviously, was before that.

350 was this close to Chalcedon or...

Yeah, but that was that was the century later. So he was bishop from 372 to, uh, 376. Bishop of Nicaea is where he gets his name from. So it's definitely after...

Bishop of Nicaea.

That's probably where you...

That's probably where... Oh, Nicaea. No, there's a different way. This is Nyssa. Okay. Oh, I see that. Yeah, that's that's where there's a confusion. Is it Nyssa... or Nyssa? Yeah, Nyssa. Sorry. Nyssa, not Nicaea. Nyssa is in Cappadocia, which I think is in Turkey. But Nicaea is also in Turkey. Anyway, it's it's a different place.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So, here's now the thing, but we're going to tighten the screws a little bit now. Yeah. I think we're, we're giving, we're making it too easy on the viewers.

So, grooming. Yeah. These brownies.

These brownies. So, I'm going to be...

You get the Scouts and you get the Brownies. So now he's alleging these poor little girls are going.

So, so I'm going to be, I'm going to play devil's advocate. Yeah. So, so these people coming in our country recently, a report came out. Yeah. A report came out and it's saying that it's within the Muslim religion to, you know, enslave our girls and to use them and then discard them. That's what you believe.

Oh, I, I haven't noticed that was a belief anyone. I have no shares. But anyway, yeah, but you, it's sex slaves are mentioned...

In the Quran.

No, they're not.

They're not sex slaves are ever mentioned in the Quran. No.

But, but I've seen it. It gets quoted. You're you're using taqiyya. That's what you're using.

Salah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, please. Yeah.

So, so then...

You're saying sex slaves are not mentioned in the Quran.

They're not like that. No. There are the people whose right hand those of whom your right hand possess. Yeah. Uh, these are captives in war, but they're not sex slaves. This is a distortion of what's been referred to.

Okay. But it's within, like, if you look, where is this coming from then? Rotherham, Rotherham, Telford, just to name a few. You filthy brownies coming over here just filling.

But, but this is the thing. I don't, I don't understand why the religion is used in this situation. Like, if these people happen to be Pakistani, let's say they happen to be Filipino, let's say they happen to be, why, why the religion?

Because he literally just tackled it in like five seconds. Like it was literally, it wasn't even like he wasn't even working hard. He was like, "That's literally what it is. It's these verses."

That literally get recycled again and again. No, but the problem is with these type of Pakistanis that you get up in Rotherham or whatever that are doing these things, they're like doing drugs and drinking and they're nothing to do. They've got no real Islamic ethos about them. So how are you then applying that to to Islam? I find it, it's really strange.

This report that came out by this Australian or New Zealand academic, I've yet to read that. I meant to read it, then I got sidetracked with other things, but I still need to read that report to see exactly what they're saying. The allegation is from someone I know who's read it, that he, his work has been misrepresented in GB News, for example. It's been spun in a particular way, and he's not actually saying some of the more lurid, headline-y kind of interpretations of his work. But I've yet to read it to see exactly who's speaking the truth on this.

I think that's what it is. You know, when, um, because this whole kind of migration, "get the Muslims out," it makes it, it helps a lot of people that have been trying to kind of push it.

Yeah. But this is what I mean. So that's why it's an agenda. There's an agenda behind it. It's like, "Oh, a brown man's done something. Please be Muslim." Oh, yes. Great. GB News, take it. Run with it. And that's that's a, it fuels that narrative. It it allows people with a collective belief now to look at us and go, "Right, oh, it's them." See, you see, they're doing this to our women. We got to protect our girls. We got to this. We got to. But then they don't care when it's on your doorstep, for example, or if it's under your nose. They don't care about that. As long as we can, and I've said this previously before, as long as we can abdicate responsibility from ourselves and place it onto others, we are fine. And so, we need to start as a whole community taking responsibility for the things that we do. And go on. Sorry.

So, so no, no. So, Paul,

Yes, sir.

what are their strongest arguments that you've come across that they make about grooming? Let's put that on the table.

I, I don't know. I, I mean, I, I put my cards on the table here. I, I haven't looked in detail at this issue. I haven't like forensically examined the evidence, the allegations, read the reports, uh, and gone into this in great detail because I'm a great believer in actually getting the details in the detail here rather than the headlines. And I haven't done that research. And I think only then could I speak with some knowledge, knowledge of the subject. I don't have that knowledge. Uh, I mean, the fact that some Pakistani immigrants in some parts of the UK who come from nominally Muslim backgrounds have been doing this stuff is is not theologically significant to me. It has no relevance to the nation, the religion of Islam, which is followed by over, you know, two billion people on the planet. You know, I, I just don't see any connection except an incidental connection, uh, with the religion because they are nominally Muslim names, as you say. They're also taking drugs and drinking. But again, I haven't looked at the evidence, but I keep on hearing this, so maybe it's true. It just is not theologically interesting for me. It's a scandal, and yes, we should be doing stuff, but it, it's not sending me back to the Quran to check what Islam teaches. I've read the Quran from cover to cover. Has nothing to do with this stuff. So I'm not that motivated. But if I was put on the spot, I would go away and do my research and then I'd come back and say, well, having looked at the evidence, I can actually say that this is the case and that's not the case. I haven't done that and I don't trust the mainstream media. I wish I could, to report this objectively and accurately, saying not news, whose life mission seems to be to demonize and misrepresent Muslims. It's outrageous. They're allowed to broadcast, by the way. Why is Ofcom, whatever it's called, allowing them for a license to broadcast? It's quite extraordinary. They get away with it. But then if, if the argument is...

Ker, what have you heard? Hit it on me. Strong steel man.

No, but as in the thing is, what I was going to say was, if this is being leveraged at us because, "Oh, it's in the Quran and this is what you guys believe in," etcetera.

And like Paul said, there's like two billion of us, man. You'd go around the world and find like harams everywhere. That's not, that's not what's happening.

But then what's more worrying is the stuff that I see you guys talk about in the park when you look at, I think it's Numbers, I think it is, you mentioned, is it...

Numbers 3:18.

Potentially about like, you know, take everybody. What, what the verse that you guys talk about in terms of, you know, you can take what, keep the young and all. So I, I find that quite scary.

And literally so, by, is it Moses? I think is...

Yeah. And so, and so if we, what's that all about then? Should I be worried about that? You know, as somebody who believes in Islam here, but you guys want to promote this, you know, the biblical version of Christianity and, you know...

What they say is, "Oh, that's the Old Testament. We follow the New Testament." But the thing is, they believe that Jesus is God. Therefore, he is the same God unless they're Manichaeans or or Marcionites. I won't go into that. The same God of the Old Testament who gave these laws in the first place.

So he's the one narrating.

So Jesus, in this logic, is the one who's responsible for these verses. And you can't say, "Oh, well, he's not." Well, this is not Christianity. You believe in one God, not two. So it gets a bit murky.

It's, it's selective. That's all it is. It's selective for reasons of, for for propaganda reasons. That's all this is. The question that should be posed to them, that I think is a very good question, is: Are you concerned about the crime, or are you concerned about the perpetrator?

Yeah. And if they're sensible, they will say, "We're concerned about the crime." And if you're concerned about the crime, then we can talk about Neville Husband. Then we can talk about Jimmy Savile. Then we can talk about, you know, all Stuart Leam.

Yeah. Then we can talk about all of these guys.

Um, Richard Price. Yeah. All of these guys.

And, and Mr. Husband.

Absolutely.

Gary and his wife. Absolutely. All of these guys, they'd get mentioned, and they'd be part of this conversation to purify Britain of these filthy individuals. But when you try to make it a race issue, yeah, which even, you know, experts that have written these reports, even they say that it's not sensible for you to blame certain races because what it does is it takes away from the victims that have actually suffered by other races. And there's ample evidence to suggest that that has happened, but, um, unfortunately, it doesn't get mentioned. So now here's the thing. One of the responses, or rather, one of the allegations is, "Why don't you guys speak out about this stuff? This is happening. You're saying it's not in your Quran. Why do you not speak out about this?" And one headline, it was in The Guardian, on Friday, 28th of June 2013, and it said, "500 Mosques Denounced Grooming and the Abuse of Children."

Yeah. So after 9/11, why don't you Muslims condemn 9/11? When literally thousands and thousands of people across the world have written, uh, joint statements condemning it. It doesn't really matter how often you condemn it, you're still going to get accused of not condemning it because it's not listened to. It's not heard. So these are very old tropes.

Yeah. And someone made a good point. They said, "White people, they are called as individual deviants, whilst when it comes to brown, when it comes to brown people, their communities in their entirety are stigmatized." To set it in context, historically, uh, there was a time in the West when, uh, when Jews collectively, this is not in the 20th century, even before that, collectively accused of all sorts of blood libel things.

Weird and wonderful things, and they were demonized. A group for secret rights, and they, they were, they molested. All of this stuff is, is a kind of reminds me that, and, and the, the, the Irish when they came over, oh, well, they're secretly in cahoots with the Pope, a foreign power, this subversive view. And, and the Catholic right is, is, is a cannibalism has to do with blood and flesh. You know, it's a parody of the Eucharist.

So, it seems that very much in Europe, we like to have our demonized majority minority rather. We like to really misrepresent it, and then we like to get very upset by them and blame them as a group. We did it with the Jews. We did it with the Irish. We're doing it with the Muslims. This is something we just do as Europeans. We do it very well, in the sense of, you know, we repeatedly do it. But what's interesting is we no longer do it with the Irish. We no longer do it with the Jews. We no longer do it with other groups. So hopefully, we would no longer do. There will be a time when we would have been more grown up and stop doing it to the Muslims. I don't know.

There's, there's probably a reason why they do it, is because this trope works. It does. And you maybe chip in on this. It's that you mentioned Jews and blacks. Is because some of the tropes that were used against them was, they want our women. Yeah. It's our women. That's what they want. They, they, you know, they desire us, and this, and that, to such a degree that even if you look at literature that's come as a result of that. We studied To Kill a Mockingbird in, uh, in school. And To Kill a Mockingbird, it's pretty much that a slave gets accused of doing something with a white woman, and that's what they're saying, that he wants our women, and this, and that. And it's an easy way to demonize. It's an easy way to otherize, and it's something that works, just like divide and conquer. If something works, what if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just carry it on. And like one community is done, okay, let's move on to the other community. If the other community is done, let's move into the other. But there being an other, it's, it's like our version of bread and circuses. Yeah. It's an easy way to detract from the actual things that are going wrong, the actual issues like the funding when it comes to the policing, people not wanting to procreate. Why is it that our people don't want to work in care homes? Why is it that we're constantly in these, um, I've forgotten the technical term, but these forever wars?

Yeah, there's a war, war of attrition. So, no, no, we don't want to worry about that. We want about, we want to worry about why Mary is depicted as brown on a stamp, or why our tree is called evergreen tree. It's interesting, and there's a reason why. I mean, I, I think your reaction was good, which is completely dismissive of it.

Compared to the actual issues at play, because there are some things, and, and I would say one thing, uh, that I think maybe does have some credibility to it, which is ghettos.

Yes. Yeah. I think that's.

No, well, they call it no-go areas, which is a lot of crap.

There's another thing is it's not worth the time of day. It's complete rubbish. Uh, but nevertheless, if they refer to something else that kind of, they then distorting. So what is this something else they're getting at? So we're talking about what you call ghettos.

Yeah. So they're saying that there are major, so certain people of certain ethnicities or cultures or religions seem to congregate in a certain area, which change the demographic of what we see as British.

Yeah.

What we see as English.

Yeah. That's it's interesting, by the way, because there are certain parts of London like Stamford Hill, where there's a disproportionate number of Jews living, uh, in communities, very close-knit communities. What is one definition of ghetto? They even have their own police cars, actually, not police cars, they look like police cars, and they're actually private owned.

Um, quasi police force drivers drive around. You see pictures of them, you think they are police, but they're not. And, and so, you know, self-contained community, you know, this is, uh, this is a ghetto, and yet no one seems to have a problem with this.

You know why? Their response is, they're not, they're not bombing us. They're not, they're not stabbing our women. They're not grooming our kids.

The, well, I'm not going to respond to that because I might, we might get a strike on this video. Uh, but, um, there's certainly a response to that. Um, you know, some people are supporting genocide and killing of people on a massive scale and so on. So we don't take lessons on human rights and whatever from these. Anyway, see, that's this is a dangerous thing to say.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Very dangerous. Um, so the reason I mentioned that is because some ghettos are, you know, stigmatized, and others are not.

Because this, what we've just described is a real ghetto in that it is an ethnically based closed community where they have certain practices and religious rituals that the wider public don't get involved in, and not even invited to participate on the Sabbath, for example. I mean, when were Gentiles invited to participate in the Sabbath? Uh, it's not, it's for another racial group, an ethnic group. So, you know, I wonder who's been.

It's true. Even in, in their schools, some of them get very low ratings from Ofsted because they're not even teaching English.

Well, they're not interested in British values, according to.

Um.

But it's never framed like that with that particular group. No one says that Parliament denounces the, the, the ghettoization of Jews. I mean, they would never do that.

Do you think people are too scared to do that?

Yeah. I mean.

Be denounced as racist or xenophobic.

Even if you look at Stockwell, there's something called Mini Portugal there. Another area, it's Mini This, Mini That. So this is human psychology, and this is where you come in, bro.

When people come, is it possible for say Pakistanis or is it possible for Iraqis to just be dotted around the country? And you know, is that the norm? Or are communities of people a psychologically consistent thing that we've seen in the past? Yeah, I mean, look, humans are herd creatures, and you will naturally gravitate towards your own tribe. Okay? So your tribe doesn't necessarily have to speak the same language as you, but you can be from the same sort of place. For example, if you're in a room and there's, it's 95% white, and you're sitting there, and I'm, I'm Muslim, for example, and then there's a Sikh across the table from me, but we both speak Punjabi, we're going to naturally lean into each other, and that commonality between us is going to make us feel a little bit more safe, a little bit more home. It's to do with, it's to do with safety and not being alienated or isolated. Now, what happens is groups of people can be dotted around the place, but what usually happens is you will hear of, "Oh, for example, let's go to Green Lanes in North London because there's a massive Turkish population over there. Oh, so why am I doing here in Somerset? I might as well go over there because at least I can get my food easily. I can see my own community easily. I can potentially, you know, meet with people from my, my village or whatever it might be." And all of a sudden, you've developed these huge communities. And these huge communities now are living in those places like you said, Little Portugal. The problem with Muslims, we, we're very visually easy to mark right now. If you've demonized a community for a long time, 20 plus years, we're talking since 9/11. And now you have an entire community. Let's take Leicester, for example, parts of Leicester, Highfields or whatever it is. You walk, you, you, even I was shocked. I was driving the first time I ever went to Leicester. We turned this corner and I saw this huge mosque. Looked like something out of Egypt just landed, you know, in, I was like, what's this all about? And even from an Islamic perspective, there's an argument as to, you know, should architecture remain sort of flush and the same, and you to complement, like you got Japan, you'll have like a mosque which is shaped as a.

Pagoda. Cambridge Central Mosque, beautifully beautiful. Yeah. So it doesn't have to necessarily be minarets and whatever, but so what I mean is these symbols, and I talked about symbols before, because symbols are really important, they sway people to and fro.

When you're visually really easy to mark, you've walked into an area and it smells different because the food is different. Now it looks visibly different. You might have barn stains on the floor, for example, if you go to East London, whatever it is. So there's a different type of of of of garbage now that you're looking at in the streets. There's big minarets. There's domes. There's people in hijabs. There's people in thobes. There's children wearing hijabs. Children wearing thobes. Where am I right now? And you see these types of videos coming up on social media, people walking in East London or whatever, or where am I right now? And so that othering is now amplified visually. So your senses are now taking in that othering. And you're like, "Oh my God, look at that. I would never go there. It doesn't seem safe for me." But yet it's absolutely fine for anyone to go there. And people who do go there, you will find those Muslim communities do integrate. Even if they can't speak English properly, they will still integrate with people, or they'll try their best to speak. Whereas when I was working, a lot of the time I worked in Manchester as well, and in Preswich, for example, I'd had to go to Preswich because the GMP headquarters were there, and I would often go to some of the shops. No one would speak. No. And this was like, it's like Stamford Hill, basically. Preswich. So.

That's you've articulated this very well, as you, as you always do. But I took another example of that. I live in Northwest London, and, um, normally I've noticed this when I walk around the, or going somewhere. I like to walk everywhere if I can.

Normally, the first voice I hear is not English. Actually, I'm talking about color or ethnicity. The language is not English. Normally.

In fact, it would be remarkably the first person I did was speaking English.

Now, imagine if you're an Englishman and you're living in that, and you don't hear, I mean, I'm not saying I never hear English spoken, but the first one is always, you know, some other language. Imagine how you'd feel if you weren't, you know, if you weren't a Muslim or something, that was the first voice. You feel alienated from your own situation. And these little things are what we're talking about. You know, when you ask me to steal my argument, well, that that would be one experience that would be typical of of many people.

And it's a, it's a natural reaction that when you do feel alienated, you will look for.

Somebody who is similar to you. It's a very natural thing for us to do. And what, what's now happening is we are using slogans, propaganda, ideology to now herd people together behind a common cause. But that common cause, you know, can be dangerous at at times. And we're finding that.

So when it comes to certain reverts, sometimes when they accept Islam, they're like, you know what, we're, we're feeling very lonely in our area.

Yeah.

Yeah. There's no mosque to go to. There's not that many Muslims around. So I feel very disconnected. So that revert would probably feel more at home in an area in which there was a mosque there, there was a community there. And then also some of them will complain whether they're reverts or even Muslims that have kind of migrated as expats or whatnot. They would say, you know what, bro, in such and such country, I was really struggling with halal food.

Yeah.

Uh, the diet is very, we have to travel so far to get our meat and this and that. And then on top of that, you know what? I'm struggling to send my kid to school because I mean, they're teaching LGBT in the schools. And when you're looking at all of these things, even certain cultural foods, it's going to be natural that set area, if there's a mosque there, there'll be certain shops there that will, you know, bring foreign foods and cater to that, the, the foreign palate. They will establish their own school as well, that maybe will not be following the woke agenda as much.

Exaggerate this. I mean, you, you can have English halal food. You know, a Sunday roast can be halal. Fish and chips can be halal. There's lots of English food that, you know, even beans on toast is halal. You know, absolutely. I mean, we don't have to have curry to be Muslim. I think this is absolutely wrong. It looks as if I have to become an Arab or a Turk or whatever to be Muslim. This is absurd. This is not even a completely un-Islamic way of thinking about it. Islam has has been transformed. The, the ethos and the culture of different influxes, whether Mughals or the, or all sorts of peoples over the, say, the Persians, you know, bringing distinctive cultural differences. We also can contribute our own cultural distinctivenesses. We don't have to become Arabs to be authentically Muslim. Absolutely.

Actually.

And, and that's really interesting.

And by the way, we can share our fish and chips with you lot. You can like them too.

Yeah. And, and that. But that that used to happen. So when you'd get Muslims that would go to different countries, they go to compliment the culture, not to take it over. Um, and this is why, for example, you see thobes. People who wear thobes. A thobe is a Byzantine dress. It's not, it's not a Sunnah dress. And it's, uh, Harbor didn't wear thobes.

Exactly. But because they were trading often in Byzantine lands, it was like, you know, this has nothing that opposes our faith, and our, we can wear this, and we, it's like somebody wearing a suit, for example. I'm not trying to, you know, give permission for anything, you know, specific, but I'm just saying to be able to assimilate without losing your identity and who you are is really important. What happens at the moment is people assimilate by losing their identity, and that's where the problem starts.

There needs to be a distinction made between integration and assimilation.

So integration is, you know, you live in the culture, you understand its values, and you know, you, you respect it. Yeah.

Yes.

Assimilation is when you give up your own values and you adopt the values of others.

As if we should go drinking in pubs and sleeping around and stuff like that.

Exactly. So we're not saying assimilate. We're saying.

Yeah.

And this is probably going to be the message of, uh, the book that, that I'm going to, um, recommend, hopefully. Uh, and that is the message that he says is that when Muslims would go to countries or whatnot, they wouldn't just in their own town, have their own food, be with their own people, speak their own language, and don't bother to kind of spread out. Yes, it makes sense for you to have your own base or whatnot, that there are things at your convenience. However, you do need to understand you're not living in a Muslim country. Yeah. They don't have Muslim values. So, it's important for you, as per psychology, that for you to get rid of someone's bias.

Yeah.

Yeah. The most efficient way to do that is by interacting with them.

Yeah. They can watch a documentary, a YouTube video, this, that, but when they interact with somebody, they're like, "Oh, you're not as bad as I thought you'd be."

Mhm.

So this is a very important notion that we have a responsibility here not to just stay in our communities and just preach to the preached and start talking about intrareligious issues, this, that, no.

Because when we just stay in our communities, we lose sight of the bigger picture. And because of that, you know what we then start doing? We start fighting amongst each other. Absolutely. So we need to understand that there is a bigger goal, a bigger picture, and there is a responsibility that we have in this country. We do need to give dawah, educate people about Islam. But for the viewers watching thinking, oh, they're saying, you know, convert. I'm not saying convert. Dawah means to give the message, make people aware of what Islam says, to remove the misconceptions. If you want to accept Islam, alhamdulillah, you know, fantastic, brilliant, you're welcome. If you don't, that's up to you. Muslims have coexisted with non-Muslims for, you know, centuries.

Yeah.

Yeah. So that, that we're not alien to that. However, when Muslims then feel that, you know what, they hate us, and, you know, they, they don't like us anyway, that then justifies you just being in an echo chamber. And as we've recently found out from X,

Elon Musk put out a feature that enabled locations. And because of that, a lot of these pages that said "Britain First" and, you know, "kick all of these migrants out," they ended up being.

From Nigeria or something.

Yeah. No, you did a really good video on that. I saw it. I was laughing my head off. Yeah.

They were mostly India.

Yeah. They mostly.

And Israel. Indians and Israel.

Propaganda.

Even the Home, the Homeland Security account of America.

No way.

They, when people check the location, it was Israel.

Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah.

Israel, bro. The Homeland Security of the United States was Israel.

I thought you were going to say India. That would have cracked.

Yeah. No, but this actually.

Is more worrying because people are already saying Tiger Carl and Candace Owens saying that America.

From, you know, top down, is being taken over by Israel. And this definitely proves that point. This definitely.

Um, lends credence to that. So when you're seeing a lot of these accounts that are forwarding that rhetoric, getting the retweets, most of them is just Raj from India or Mr. Cohen from Israel. That's literally what it is. So.

This notion, oh, they hate us, and then not really.

Go meet with the people, interact with them, and you'll see what the thing on the ground is. And that's where we're now living in a, in a, in a matrix of sorts that's been created by mainstream media and social media.

And that's going to be reinforced into us through virtual reality and all sorts of technologies that's going to reinforce something that really is not an accurate representation of what's on the ground. M.

So this, I think, is very important for us to educate ourselves on these topics, engage dialogue, talk, not just label people as racists and far-right and right-wing. Engage with the ideas, engage with the facts that are put on the table. Yes, there are going to be certain people that aren't rational. They're not logical. They're not really willing to have that conversation. Maybe a, a an encounter with a really polite Uber driver or guy selling them a kebab or something can maybe soften them in that regard, and then maybe they'll be willing to have a conversation after that.

Yeah. And that's the thing. Action. You know, we can dialogue as much as we like, but there's so much impact in action. So, for example, your, like, if you're, let's say you're selling something, but you're selling it with an Islamic standard, which is, "Hey, I'm selling you this car, but by the way, I need to tell you there's a defect here. There's a defect here and there, but it will probably cost you this much." The man on the other side's going, "Why the hell are you telling me this? Well, you're never going to sell the car." "It's my, it's my Islamic duty to tell you this."

Yeah.

And then they go, "What?" And things like that make such a huge difference for people for them to go, what is this faith that they they're adhering to? Because there's such beauty behind that. And that's prophetic character historically that's worked as well because if you look at Indonesia, no major war took place in Indonesia. It was actually the traders.

Yes.

East Africa, it was the merchants. In the Balkans, it was the Muslim courts.

So when you look at, you know, this is like indirect dawah through action.

That's it.

And although I did a video yesterday on this, but apparently it's something that's happened long before. Mr. Beast actually was very much inclined towards Christianity. He's the biggest, you know, English-speaking YouTuber on the planet.

And he said he used to put Bible verses up on his YouTube banners.

And he stopped doing that.

And then they asked him why, and he said, you know, I think there's more truth out there. He was actually referring to, and he mentioned this, it was one of his friends called Tarik, and he said seeing him pray five times a day, seeing him be so dedicated to his faith, preaching what he practices.

Yeah. Yeah.

Practice what you preach. Yeah.

And that is something that is so, so important. Like the message of Islam nowadays is articulated so well.

Yeah.

You know, amazing videography, as you know, big up Abdul Karim. So because all of that's happening, but are we really representing Islam when we go out?

Yeah. Yeah.

And that's that's the takeaway that the viewers can have that yes, you can listen to these podcasts, and yes, you can knock down some of these facts, and yes, you can debate people, but most importantly, learn about Islam and live like Muslims.

Yeah. Absolutely.

Have I missed anything out, guys? Anything you want to add?

No. Are we going to have a look at our preferred books? Choice books.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Do you want to start off?

Okay. My prefer, uh, my choice of book this week, uh, is this one called Traveling Home: Essays on Islam and, uh, Europe. It's the most recent book, uh, published by a guy called Tim Winter. He's a professor at Cambridge University. He has a Muslim name, Abdul Hakim Murad, because he is a Muslim. And, um, in this, uh, book, he's written a nice dedication there after me. Really? Oh, very nice.

Yes, that's why I know the music, you see. Anyway, um, he asks a question at the beginning of the book. Um, I just want to share with you the answer. The, the big question is, do Muslims belong in Europe? Do we even belong here? And he gives a theological answer, uh, as to why we do. And I want to share with you the reasoning that he offers. So, I'm just going to read, I think, just a paragraph. So he writes on, uh, page one, funny enough, Muslims find themselves at home everywhere, for the universalism of Islam enables a local rooting which recognizes that wheresoever you may turn, there is God's face. That's actually a quote from the Quran. Wherever you, wheresoever you may turn, there is God's face. Quran 3:115. Such is this Muslim sense of belonging that believers feel more at home in a place than any atheist could. Since to lose contact with God is immediately to forfeit one's sense of connection to a place of his making. It is to feel one's roots and identity shrivel. There can be no truly English, German, or Russian atheist, for this kind of, from this kind of Muslim perspective, Lenin was not Russian, Douglas Murray is not British, and Sam Harris is not American. They seem to wait in a full-on foreign encampment even when officially at home. By contrast, to become Muslim, or to arrive from an Islamically Abrahamic place, is to maintain that traditional sensibility which perceives God's signs super abundantly everywhere, is immediately to see the land with understanding, and hence to begin to grow roots and to adorn and engage the earth. Such, very roughly, is the Islamic theory of Abrahamic mobility. Unlike Israel's wandering in exile, which await the messianic intervention which will take the people to a home greater than all homes, Muslims travel from one home to an equal other, and do not cherish a return to the mother of cities except as visitors.

Subhan Allah.

They migrate Abrahamically. But every country for them is a promised land.

That's amazing.

So this is a theological answer. I love actually naming people. Douglas Murray is not really British as an atheist. He doesn't belong because this is God's earth, and he's alienated from it.

Subhan Allah.

And I thought, wow, that's a theological, you know, and, uh, so that's bringing a theological perspective to all these empirical debates about who does what. Ultimately, this is God's earth, and we belong everywhere.

So, my book is A Muslim's Guide to Modernity by Suril Sharif. So, he discusses about the challenges of modernity and the some of the things that we've discussed, not obviously at the, um, at the, none of these brazen topics, I think we've discussed. I haven't read the entire book, but, um, definitely some wonderful chapters in here that I think are very pertinent to what we're going through. And the quote is not from the book, but it's when the axe came into the forest, the trees whispered, the handle is one of us.

Mhm.

And this is so apt because sometimes Muslims may see certain people that look like us, um, or, you know, from our cultural background or whatnot, you know, being the Home Secretary or this or that. But it's interesting. You got Shabban Mahmud that claims to be a Muslim, claims to be someone from Pakistan, uh, participated in Palestinian marches, but yet is now being used to curb these, um, protests, legitimate protests, and important protests.

Again, it's an axe, and the people are looking at the handler and going, "Oh, that's one of us."

It doesn't matter. And this notion of you should vote for somebody or you should include somebody just because they look like us. No.

No.

Somebody can look different to you, but as long as they have the Islamic ideals, they're a Muslim. Yeah. And they say and act upon it, that person should get more priority than somebody that merely just looks like you.

Yeah. And that's the beauty of the, um, Subhan Allah. I'm, um, I'm still sort of reeling off the, the information that you guys have shared, especially that quote. May Allah preserve the.

I mean, um, so the book that I have is from Yasmin Khan, it's called The Great Partition: The Making of India and Pakistan. So probably a useful read given the topic that we've spoken about as well. And it touches on, you know, what happened prior to, what happened during, uh, and then also the aftermath of what followed, um, what migration looked like after that as well. And it's, it's a really interesting, but quite harrowing subject to look into as well. You know, 1 million people lost their lives, you know, in this. It's, it was, it's quite a, um, it's quite a heavy read, but, um, I would definitely recommend it.

Can I take a liberty and just a final quote, not from that book, but from the Shaikhul Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah, as I call it. Just a, it's a very famous quote, but I, I wish non-Muslims and even Muslims would be more familiar with it. He, he's wrote in one of his works, Ibn Taymiyyah, verily Allah helps a just country even if its people are disbelievers.

And he, God does not help a wrongdoing, oppressive country even if its people are Muslims. It is through justice that men become upright. It is through justice that wealth becomes abundant.

What an awesome thing to say. What an awesome perspective.

Subhan Allah. So true. So true. So that draws us to an end, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, this, I think, is more of an introductory topic. This is not something that we can just cover in one podcast or one discussion. We'll, you know, let us know in the comments what specific fields in this kind of topic about future Britain we should go into. And, uh, yeah, let us know, uh, your feedback. And until next time, Assalamu alaikum.