Capture Lost Deals Using Facebook Retargeting Ads w/ Kiley

All right, you're on YouTube. Hey, hey, how's it going, everybody? Welcome to today's Evergreen Marketing Show. How's it going? Uh, we're getting the ball rolling here. We're going live on YouTube. Should be going live on Facebook and, un momento, Kylie. We got Mr. Kylie Newbold, longtime friend of Carrot. Welcome to the podcast, man.

Thanks, Brady. I'm stoked to be here.

Yeah, it's, uh, I'm excited. It's good to, and excited, I guess. Um, both. What, what do you do right now, um, in marketing, and where are you tuning in from?

Uh, I'm in Salt Lake City, Utah, and, uh, I have an agency called Silver Street Marketing that is dedicated 100% to finding motivated seller leads for Real Estate Investors using Facebook and Google.

Boom. Awesome. Uh, a little icebreaker, and then we'll kick it off. So we're talking about, uh, we're talking about Facebook retargeting today. We'll get into that. Um, but, uh, Kylie, who's your, who's your favorite either marketer or your favorite, uh, creative professional?

Creative? Oh, man. I know. Broad spectrum, dude. So my favorite creative, that's a good question. I tend to be drawn to like visual arts when it comes to just pure creativity. Yeah. Um, but there's a guy I found not too long ago. His name is, this, so there's a couple. One of them is not visually creative, but his name is Harry Mack. You ever heard of—

How you start with a guy who's not creative? No, no. Not visually creative.

Not Harry Mack? No. So the guy, his name is Harry Mack. He's like a freestyle rapper. Okay. Um, so he got to start walking on the streets of, like, walking the beach parkway of, uh, like Venice Beach, I think. And he would have people give him like random words and then he'd build them into the rap in like real time. Um, and now he, then he was doing that online, um, on this online chat website. And he'd just find random people and then create a rap right there. And the thing that is so impressive to me about it is one, obviously, his mind works really quickly. But when I think about how much effort he is putting in behind the scenes to practice, like, yeah. And he's kind of talked about that a little bit. Um, I really like that because you look at it, you watch him do it, and you're like, holy cow, this guy's so gifted and talented, which is true. But also, he's just put in a ton of—

So cool, man. Of work to do it. So, so.

I write music on the side, and a lot of singer-songwriter stuff. And, and my son, Atticus, he's, he's kind of taken on. But he likes, he likes rap. I don't listen to a lot of rap, but like, rap is his jam. And so a few months ago, we started doing this thing. We don't do it consistently, but we started doing family rap battles in the living room. If you picture me, my son, my wife in the living room, uh, how it works, this is really fun. This is how you do it. You set a timer for, like, let's say two minutes. Two or three minutes. Two is kind of challenging. Maybe start with three or four if it's your first time. And you pick any topic. You say, "Trees." And everybody gets a notepad. And you get two or three minutes to write about, you get to write a rap about trees. Doesn't matter, uh, how long it is, how many bars, how many verses, whatever. You just, "I'm going to rap about trees." And I go to Spotify or I go to YouTube and I just type in like, "instrumental rap beat" or just whatever. Find some beat. And that's part of the fun too, because you don't know if it's going to be like fast or chill. And so, like, me and my wife said, we're all just like writing about trees. And from whatever perspective. You can be the tree, you could talk about trees, anyways. And then once the timer goes off, we just go, you got to stand in the front of the living room, front of the TV, play the beat, and you got to deliver it with no practice.

I love it. It's super fun. It's the best improv. Like, second to public speaking in actual school, this is like the most helpful thing. It's so fun. Yeah.

When I was, when I was working at The Color Run, um, this was years ago, and we'd have like, uh, R&D meetings, for lack of a better word, just, you know, trying to iterate and come up with new creative experiences and and marketing. Um, we would do stuff like that to start off the meeting. And it was always, it was always a blast. A good way to get those creative juices flowing. But yeah, it is, man. Sometimes you just got to like, get ridiculous and get out of your zone to like, get, find your creativity and find your spark. Just to break it up. Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

All right. Well, people are showing up. You guys are here. I appreciate you showing up to today's, uh, Evergreen Marketing Live and our coaching call. Um, we're talking about how to do retargeting properly on Facebook. Some of you all are probably showing up to this call because you want to do Facebook marketing for the first time. Some of y'all maybe you wasted money before, you didn't do it properly. Um, we're going to break it all down for you today. So, um, without further ado, let's play the intro and, uh, we'll get into it. Pop your questions in the chat.

[Music]

[Music]

All right, everyone. If people are visiting your website from any marketing source, if you're sending traffic to your website and you're not retargeting them with generally low-cost Facebook ads, you're probably losing deals. So today, I have a longtime friend of Carrot, Mr. Kylie Newbold, uh, owner of Silver Street Marketing out of Utah, who runs lots of ad campaigns for Real Estate Investors all over the country. He's here with with us to talk about how to do retargeting right, how to set it up, best practices for Facebook ads, all the nerdy and nitty-gritty. It's going to be good stuff. So we're going to get into it. Um, yeah, how this is going to work. Uh, we've changed, we've changed up the format recently. So we're going to aim to keep this like a 10 to 15-minute verbal combo, just give you the highlights on how it'll work, just give you the nuggets so you can digest it. And then, uh, once we've done that, we're going to do a little bit of a deeper dive coaching call. So make sure to pop in your questions if you have any, and, uh, we'll do a little bit of screen share and show you some examples of ads and things like that. So let's, uh, let's kick it off, man. I think, uh, I think a good place to start, besides family rap battles, would be, uh, some of the data we were talking about on conversion yesterday. Um, do you have that data pulled up?

Yeah, I do. So this is, uh, this is data I collaborated with with Carrot on this. So this is looking across like, um, Carrot members' websites. And what we found is the overall conversion rate for all channels, the average across all sites is like 3 to 5%. Now, this is new traffic. So people who are coming to your site for the first time. Now, obviously, that's a little bit higher for SEO or, um, you know, SEO's high, PPC, Facebook, etc. So it varies. But here's the interesting thing: about 90% of all traffic leaves the site and never comes back. Yeah. On average. On average. Yeah. So you capture some of those like right in the beginning, and then people bounce. Right. This is what's cool. So when people come back to the site, the overall conversion is like 8%. So we're already up by double, almost, right? If they come back to the site from a social paid social media ad, the conversion rate on average is 18.2%. Yeah. So, so that, like, you know, one, what, one in five, one in six of people who, who land on your site, don't come back. And or land on your site and then get a Facebook retargeting ad, land back on your site, convert into a lead. And the reason, Brady, I think that matters so much is we forget often because we're in our own world of like, we're, we're generating leads, and we, we forget that people don't behave linearly. Yeah. Um, we don't just go step one, step two, step three, right? So it's the way people behave in general, but especially online is like, is kind of erratic. And if you, here's there's a good example I like to use. Like, imagine, imagine, you know, you're at a soccer game. You're watching your, your kid, or soccer practice, excuse me. You're watching your kid practice soccer, which I will be tonight. Awesome. So is it relevant? Um, and you've recently, uh, you've recently inherited a home that's in probate, and you are thinking about that. And so you start searching on your phone, you know, "What do I do with this home that's in probate?" And you do a Google search. You, and you click on an ad or an ad, or you click on a search result, right? And that takes you to a website. Now you're looking at this website of this investor that buys homes that are in probate. And you're kind of reading about it. But just right then, whistle blows, practice is over, your kid's running over to you, you're in charge of treats that day, so now you're distributing treats to all the kids. Your phone goes in your pocket. You probably close out of your browser. Um, now you're driving home, uh, you're making dinner, you're relaxing for the evening. You wake up the next morning, you go to work. Like, you have the, the problem you have of needing to sell that home still exists. But you have got so many other things going on, right? So that's the nonlinear element that I'm talking about. Not in a straight line. Yeah. Um, so the likelihood that you go back to that exact same website, it varies, right? I mean, we can look at data to see how, yeah, how likely it is. Um, so that's the power of staying in front of people in multiple marketing channels. And retargeting, I mean, we're going to talk specifically about that on Facebook and all of Facebook's ad, um, platforms. But that, that's why I always, I always preach, uh, omnichannel marketing or multiple channel marketing. Just how can we get in front of people in multiple ways, uh, so that if they don't engage or they don't take action on the first time, that we can stay in front of them. And that's, that's really common, by the way. Like, people don't, it's very, yeah, people don't take action on the first, uh, touch point, most often. Yes. Especially if you're just, um, if you're just browsing around, like if you're just at the, you know, the top of the funnel, if you're just looking for information. Yep. Yeah. And we forget that. Yeah. People get distracted. They don't act, uh, linearly. Linearly, like, like we think, uh, they do. I think that's the word, unless I made it up. But what I'm saying is, they don't go in a straight line. Exactly. Exactly.

So, so we're talking about, uh, retargeting specifically. So we'll get into the nitty-gritty of this in a sec. But, um, give me the high level of, like, uh, who it's for, and, um, yeah, what type of investor, like, what are some things they should have in place before they do retargeting? Obviously, a website. Like, you need a website. If nobody's coming to your website, you can't, you can't do Facebook retargeting, right? Um, any other, any other things to add to that?

Yeah, so let's talk maybe about, like, what retargeting is in general, and then I can talk a little bit about what that looks like in the Facebook world for investors. So at a high level, retargeting is basically REM—is marketing to someone that you have already interacted with. So online, this means when you're on Amazon looking for guitar, um, straps to buy, and you then leave Amazon, you now are going to see ads for guitar straps. Um, if you were on a specific website, you're going to see ads for those specific, like, straps, right? Like, "Come back, come back, don't, don't forget." That's retargeting. So in the world of Real Estate Investors, this is someone lands on your website, no matter what channel they come from, SEO, they got your mail, they typed it in directly, they go direct to your website, um, they don't convert as a lead. Now, we're going to try to target them with ads, um, on Facebook, on Instagram, and through Facebook's ad network, which is pretty vast. Um, we're going to try to, we're going to target them with an ad with the goal of bringing them back to the website, reminding them why they were there in the first place, and getting them to take action. A wildly, vastly different from a, just a cold Facebook ad that from to someone that's never heard of you, right? And with, without spoiling it, the cost, I mean, I'm not looking for specific, because we know there's so many variables, like market size and different things, but the cost in general for retargeting is a lot cheaper than to a cold audience. Yeah.

So the cost, it's interesting. I think it's important how we look at that. So, and this is getting a little bit deeper into the leads, which we can go deeper, kind of, I think, as we go on in the technical side. So over the years, there's been privacy, um, things that have been implemented. So you maybe you've heard of iOS 14, which happened a few years ago, which was when Apple made so that you can choose whether an app can track you or not. Every time you install an app, it asks, "Would you like this app to track you?" You know, "Be able to person your ads." So things like that have decreased the overall retargeting audience size because people have the ability to like opt out. It's great for generally for us as consumers and humans for our data privacy, but it has made retargeting a little more difficult. So Brady, if you were asking me that question a couple years ago, I'd say, "Oh yeah, retargeting leads are cheaper, cost per lead, and they're going to close at a higher ratio." Right? Um, that, that has leveled out more over time, as those audiences have kind of shrunk a little bit. But the value continues to outpace. So the close ratio and, and the value of the leads, um, continues to be higher. And there are some ways that you can help keep that cost per lead down a little bit, um, by increasing your audience size intelligently. So when we look at retargeting now, um, kind of depends on who, like, the website and how much traffic they have coming to the site. But often, what we will do is we will take the direct mail lists, um, or cold calling lists, or whatever you're pulling probate data from the county, and we will integrate that as well. Since we will integrate that as well into the, uh, into that audience. So like I said, I'm getting a little more technical in, like, Facebook algorithm and audience sizes and stuff. But, um, there are ways to sort of boost that audience to try to keep that cost per lead lower, um, and, uh, but, but keep that nice conversion rate and, and, and value of the lead. Yeah.

That makes sense. By adding in other lists, other data that you have that you know isn't exclusive to your, to just the people that have visited your website. Okay. Um, well, let's, let's do this, man. Let's, um, if you could walk me through, like, the, um, at a high level, the nuts and bolts of how somebody would set up, um, would set up retarget ads for the first time. We'll just talk through it, and then we'll switch over, you know, after that, do some screen share, take some, uh, questions. We're already getting some questions in the chat. So, yeah, what's, walk me through step one through, uh, 72?

Okay, so there's a couple things you got to have. Um, you got to have, uh, on the Facebook side, you have to have a Facebook Business Page. You have to have a Facebook Ads Manager. Um, you need to have created a Facebook tracking pixel, or now called data sets, as well. Um, so that's kind of on the technical Facebook side. And then once you have those, you need to add your Facebook tracking pixel to your Carrot website. And you've got to do that in two places. So you want to put it in the overall code of the website. That's right in the dashboard. Um, and Carrot has, has a tutorial on how to do this. And then you also want to add a conversion event on your conversion page. So, uh, if you're doing the standard kind of two-step conversion, um, then you'd want to put code at least on that step two page, so that when someone hits that page, Facebook knows that's a lead. Um, we, we put it on both pages, step two and thank you. Um, we do lead on step two and complete registration on thank you, uh, because we want to be able to track both of those. But you need it at least on the step two. Okay.

So tracking what people are doing on your website so that they can report that back to Facebook. Yep.

Yeah, you need the pixel there for a couple of reasons. One is you need a way to start building your retargeting audience. So when someone lands on your, on your website, Facebook needs to know that. Um, and then in order, once you start running ads, Facebook is going to say, Facebook's going to want to know, what are you trying to get? You're say, "I'm trying to get leads." So you got to tell Facebook what a lead is. Uh, so once you have that setup, you're ready to create your audience. So back in Facebook, you're going to create your, uh, website retargeting audience. And, um, so you'll create that audience, and then you can also create other similar audiences, especially if you're sort of in the beginning of of building your pixel data. That can help. We'll look at engagement audiences. So anyone who is engaged with our ads or our Facebook page, that's something we often will also create. Um, video views audiences can, can potentially work well in here too, if you've got like, oh, video ads that you've run or video posts that you've run, um, who have watched more than three or more than 10 seconds of my videos, that that group of people. Okay. Yep. And then the other one is like your, your custom lists. So you're going to create those audiences for, for the sheer simplicity of this, you would create your website traffic audience, anyone who has been to your website. And once you have that audience created, now you can build your campaign and, uh, get your ads in there and, and start. And that's it. And then you're off to the races with your, your ad creative, your ad copy, and you're sending them live.

Sweet. Okay, cool. So that's it at a high level. Um, let's do this. We're, we're going to wrap up the, uh, the podcast there. I think in summary, if you're, if you have a Carrot website and you're doing other sorts of marketing, like, and you're not running Facebook retargeting ads, get your, get your Facebook retargeting ads going. Um, work with Kylie. You could find them in the marketplace, marketplace.carrot.com. Work at Silver Street. Um, get them going so that you can stop losing people who are maybe only visited your site once or twice. So it's a great, easy, pretty affordable way to, um, close more deals. We'll talk about cost per lead, cost per click here in a moment. But yeah, work with Kylie, or work with someone. Um, but we'll dive into the screen share. That's the end of the podcast. If you want to be a part of this, uh, Q&A live, and you're listening to this after the fact, join us at, uh, community.carrot.com. Join us in the Facebook group. We go live every Thursday at 11:00 AM. But that's it. All right, here we go. Pipe in your questions. Um, let's do this. We'll take a couple of questions just to change it up, and then we'll, we'll dive into the nuts and bolts. Um, we had a good discussion going in the Facebook group, uh, around, uh, cost per lead. Want to talk about that? The one we were talking about before we, before we went live? What, like, I guess we could start with, what's a, what's a reasonable? It's kind of hard to answer because it depends on the market, but what's a reasonable, uh, cost per lead? I guess what I can do is this. Let me share the visual I have real quick, because I was just talking about this in the webinar yesterday. A lot of people don't sometimes know, like, how many, uh, how many leads to a deal it should take to close in general. So I've got just kind of a rule of thumb here.

Kaboom. Oh, sorry. Brady, he beat me to it. Go ahead. Okay, cool. With the mouse. Here we go. Okay, so, um, this is how many roughly, ballpark, of course, you all know, a lot of variables. Depends on the quality of your marketing, size of your market, there's so many things. But this is what we see from our members on average. And Kylie and I were having a conversation before we hit record, um, about someone who's, you know, talking about maybe perceived high cost with Facebook ads, and we're like, "Actually, that's," and like saying it takes a lot of leads to close a deal. Like, "Actually, this lines up with what we're seeing." Because they had gotten about 40, um, roughly 40 or 40 or 45 leads, and they're about to close their second deal from those Facebook ads. So cold calling, about 150. TV, 150. That one might be a little high. I've heard of some people like one in 20, one in 30. Big variable there. Direct mail, one in 40-ish. Facebook, one in 20, one in 25. Google Ads, one in 12 to 15. SEO, on average, about one in 10. Sometimes I see six or eight, sometimes 15. Again, all depends. But these are some averages just for like expectations for how many leads to a deal. Kyle, you want to talk about, uh, cost here?

Yeah, yeah. Can I, um, is it okay if I, something as well? Send it. Okay. Let me, as long as it's related to Facebook ads. Oh, I was going to go back to rap battles. Freestyle rap. That's what the people want. Give the people what they want. All right, let's see.

[Music]

Here. All right. Uh, Jorge Rodriguez had a question while you're pulling it up. Said, "Do you have an updated Facebook course? Has it changed much since a few years ago?" I bought the course. I believe, Kylie, we worked with you to update that in the last two years. So, Jorge, are you, you're probably talking about the Facebook course on Carrot, right? Facebook Masterclass, I would assume. Yeah. So that one is not super, uh, that one does have some things that need to be updated. I'm actually, uh, was having a conversation with the Carrot team right before this about the timeline and getting that done. So a lot of it is still very accurate. There is some stuff that's outdated. Um, what you could do, though, if you want, reach out to me directly. Like, send me an email or message me on Facebook, and I can get you access, uh, to some con, to the updated content, um, that we're going to get implemented. Um, so because you bought the course, you get access to that once we update it. So. Sweet. Yeah, thanks for doing that, man. Yeah. And, and so there is, there is a more updated course that exists. It's, uh, just the logistics of getting that into the Carrot, um, marketplace. So. Cool. Yep.

All right, so this is what I wanted to show, um, because I think this is, this is important. Uh, okay. Leads that come from different places are going to behave somewhat differently. And this, this right here is, is the stages of awareness. This is, uh, like a marketing principle that exists across all industries. And it's basically the idea that there are stages that people go through when they're making a decision. So they might be unaware, they have a problem. They don't know that they are about to inherit a home right now. The problem aware, "I've got this home, I don't know what to do with it." Now they've got, now they're solution aware, "Oh, I know there are investors out there that will pay cash." And this is different than me listing my home. Um, now they become brand aware. They know you, they know your business. They're deciding what, who to do business with. And then they make their decision. So I, I have just digital things on here, but any marketing channel you're pursuing, you could put on this spectrum at some place. And if you think about like SEO or pay-per-click, those people are typically going to be at least a little bit further down the decision-making process. They're at least problem aware because they're actively searching for a solution, right? So sometimes I'll hear people say, um, you know, "Paperclick leads are more motivated." And on average, going back to the slide you just showed, Brady, that might be true. Now, motivated is kind of a tricky word. I would say they're further along in their decision-making process. Um, that's why you close one in 10 to one in 15 PPC leads. Facebook, you're pulling from a broader spectrum of awareness of readiness. So you get people who are down in this part of the decision-making process, but you're going to get some people up here. This pros and cons, a little bit of a double-edged sword. These people up here are going to take a little more nurture. You'll end up talking to people that, uh, you might deem originally less motivated because they aren't deep enough in their decision-making process yet, right? So put those people in a good nurture. In six months, there's a good chance they're further down the the process. Um, but you'll also pull people who are further along. So the reason I think this is important is it coincides really well with the slide you were just showing that, um, and all leads from all channels can be part of a good marketing strategy. Um, if you have a channel that is pulling people like in here consistently, then like, you should maximize that channel. Maximize, maximize, maximize. But in order to scale your business, you will likely have to grow outside of a single channel. And so you'll add on another channel, and then maybe another channel. And knowing that they will behave slightly differently, I think can be really helpful in how you approach this. Because to your question about cost per lead, so much of that is based on like expectation. Yeah. Because, you know, I can go and get leads for pretty cheap, but a lot of them are not going to be very good. So there's this balance between quality and quantity and cost. And so I always recommend people, and I, I think Trevor has shown this a few times on podcasts and videos, something very similar.

Oh, good. I'm glad you have it. I was about to pull up another version. This is perfect.

Yeah, so what, what is a reasonable expectation? And most importantly, this is the number we want right here. What is your lead value? So I just put some, some numbers in here. This is what you'd want to do. So what is your close ratio? One. And I, by the way, I picked numbers that would be really easy percentages too. So it might actually be like one in 14, but I didn't want to have to do that math. So, um, we're going to close one in 10. My average deal revenue is about 10K. And I want like a four to one, uh, ratio of profit to cost. So I want 7,500 of that to to flow down into my business, and 2,500 of that, I'm okay putting towards marketing. Right? So these numbers will change for anyone listening to this call. All of them. Um, this is kind of what Carrot recommends here. I think it's a good starting point. But your business might be a little different. You know, you might, you might have a slightly different like profit ratio. Um, so like, maybe you're a solopreneur and you're okay with two to one, you don't have a lot of overhead, a lot of complexity, and you're like, "Hey, I can, I can do that." It's just harder to scale two to one. Or, right? Yeah. Or you are a business that is generating a lot of deals already. You're starting a new marketing channel. You might be willing to to accept something different too, because you have economies of scale on some of the other stuff. So, um, but now we got some math here, right? So I'm saying, okay, if I can spend about 2,500 per deal, and I close about 10%, that means my lead value is about $250. Okay? So this, I could pay up to $250 per lead, and I'm still staying within this, what I want to pay for marketing. Right? So that number right there matters. Because if your cost per lead is $190, you're, you're still getting value on that, on those leads. Yeah, on those deals, right? Um, now, if your lead, if your cost per lead starts getting creeping up, right, along that 250 and above, now you've got to start making some assessments of, okay, what can I do to keep that cost per lead down? That's something in the digital marketing world, you're never done. You're always iterating and optimizing and trying to get that number down, right? But that's why lead value matters. Because you can drive yourself crazy going like, "How do I get my lead cost below $100 a lead?" Or "How do I get it to 75?" Um, and, and you can lose sight of your ROI. Yeah. So lead value, lead value is so critical. Um, the other thing to consider is, would I have gotten these deals otherwise? And that's sort of the scaling your business thing to think about. You know, so again, like, if, if you have a channel that's producing leads at a lower, at a, the lead value is much higher, the close ratio is better, whatever, like, you should maximize that channel. Maximize, maximize, maximize. But at some point, you're going to scale, add other marketing channels, and you're going to look at each one that's going to behave just a little bit differently. So, you know, maybe your, maybe your CPL, cost per lead, here is like 175, where when you do the math on your direct mail, it's less. And you're going, "Man, this is, this channel is too expensive." Too expensive is an emotion. Yeah. It's not, it's, it's not, uh, yeah, it's just an emotion. And we want to use data, not emotion. So you can take these numbers here, and this will kind of give you some ideas to go, "Okay, I want to try to close two deals a month." That'll give me about 20K in revenue. So using the numbers from the previous slide, I need to get about 20 leads. If my lead value is 250, then I might need to spend about $5,000 in marketing. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, these, these numbers are made up. So it's more likely, especially with Facebook, that you're saying like, "I close one in 20," and, and whatever your revenue is, that's kind of depends on the market and your exit strategy with the deal. So when people say, "Kylie, what's a good cost per lead?" I can give you, I can give you a range. It ranges like on the low end around like, on Facebook, like maybe $50 a lead, on the high end, like 150 to maybe 200 a lead. But all of that means very little without you, your lead value. Yeah.

Okay, nice. That's good. I'm glad we, I'm glad we got that covered. The whole math versus emotion thing, like going off of data. We got a couple questions here, and then maybe we'll tackle, maybe look at some ad creative examples. I'm throwing a curveball on you because I know we're going through tactical, but I feel like, uh, it sounds like people are wanting more of the, you know, what do the ads look like? What do they feel like? What do they sound like? And then, um, we could talk about like how to set them up too, because we have like, like Kylie said, we have tutorials in Carrot on some of this. But, um, if that sounds good, we'll roll with that. If you guys want to know or or see anything specifically on Facebook ads, let me know. Um, let's see. Questions. Go ahead. I'm seeing, I'm seeing some questions, Brady. I, maybe Braden's putting these in here. Yeah, the private chat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I'll, yeah, from Facebook. Okay, got it. I'll let you kind of lead us where we go there. Um, let me find, so we want to look at some ads. Yeah. While you're pulling those up, let's see. Let's tackle, let's tackle a couple easy ones. These will be good value. Casey De Vault, thanks for hopping on, Casey. You've been pretty active in these. "How do we know if our Facebook retargeting ads are working? What's the metric?" Tony's, Tony's question was pretty similar. Let me read it just to make sure. "What KPIs do you track to determine if your campaign is working, and what should they be? And how long do you give them before you evaluate them?" Oh, so that's good. What KPIs and how do you, how do you know when you can judge it?

Great question. So we look at KPIs kind of at three different levels of of performance. So we look at the audience reach, how many people are we getting in front of? We look at the number of clicks and the cost per click. And then we look at the conversion rate. So that's people who landed on your website versus people who took action. Um, and these will vary a bit from market to market, and and also for your account and campaign age. These tend to get better over time. So, um, you know, we want like a, we want a conversion rate of like three to five-plus percent overall on the accounts. Um, so when I give you those numbers, I'm talking cold Facebook traffic too. So on the retargeting side, we'd want that to be a little bit higher than than that three to five. Um, so we're going to look at those, those at those levels. That's going to help us know where to tweak ads overall. What we're looking at is what we just talked about, which is, what is the lead value versus what am I paying per lead? Um, and, uh, as long, as long as your lead cost per lead is below or at your lead value, you, you should be getting ROI. Um, then we go and we look at those other things so that we can continue to optimize on them.

He said, Casey said, "I ask as I've had a retargeting setup for four months and I don't think I've had a single lead from it." So Casey, if I were you, and I was looking in it, I would say, uh, I would look at how many people have seen my ad and how many people have clicked on it. So if, oftentimes, what could be the case is that your audience is really small. So maybe you go in there and you're like, "Okay, there's like 300 people that have seen this ad, and I got 12 clicks, and nobody converted." I'm just making those numbers up. If that's the case, then you'd go, "Okay, I gotta, like, you know, one and 12. I don't, I should pick numbers that I can do one in 10 or whatever." It's like, "Okay, that, you know, if I expected like a seven or eight percent conversion or 10 even, yeah, I'm not quite there with the number." Like, "I need, I got to get more people to my website." Um, then you'd maybe look at building the size of your website. If you've had hundreds of clicks and nobody's converted, then that's another, that's another thing I'd look at. I'd look at like the message, the ad, I'd look at the audience match. I'd look at technical stuff, like, "Okay, is something going on? Like, is it working?" Yeah. To not have a single lead, that, yeah. Yep. Anytime I see a zero in marketing data, I'm like, "What's broken?" You know? Uh, the other thing, Casey, is where are you? When you say you haven't gotten a single lead, is Facebook telling you that, or is Carrot telling you that, or both? The reason that matters is, uh, Carrot uses a last-click attribution, which is standard. Like Google Analytics does that too, meaning the last action someone takes is what gets credit for the lead. So here's where that gets a little bit tricky. If someone sees your retargeting ad and clicks on the ad, lands on your website, and then gets distracted again for whatever reason, but they remember, you know, they remember the URL, coolguyhousebuyers.com. They come back, they type it in directly, coolguyhousebuyers.com, they convert. Carrot is going to say that's a direct lead because they typed in the URL directly. But if it's within the conversion window on Facebook, then Facebook's going to say, "Well, that's a retargeting lead." Which is why, which is what the only thing I'll add to that, Kylie, is this is why it's critical to, when you're, I don't know if you want to do it when you're closing, or on that first initial phone call with a seller, just ask them, "Hey, hey, where, where'd you hear about us? How'd you find out about us?" And just shut up and let them talk because it might have been five different places. And and dig for that because that's going to give you your real, um, I'm blinking on the word, but that's going to give you your real gauge for where truly, yeah, where people are actually finding out and hearing about you. You know, "Oh, I saw you on TV, and then I Googled you, and then, well, and then I finally saw on your Facebook ads." And, "Oh, okay, there it is." But it showed up as direct, and they came from four marketing channels. You know? And that, that certainly can help. And people, consumers, ourselves included, are often, uh, pretty bad at remembering everything. But certainly, like, you add all those data points in, you know, to help. Uh, this is, this is kind of going on a, on a bit of a tangent, but I think it makes sense. I'm going to go there really quickly, is like, good marketing across multiple channels will improve the performance of all your marketing. So, um, your Facebook retarget, your Facebook marketing should help your direct marketing, should help your SEO, should, because of this kind of cross-channel, um, and attribution is a little bit tricky. So if your messaging, your branding is consistent, has the same look and feel, and it's not disjointed, right? Yeah, it should, it should kind of like raise it up for everyone. I mean, the marketing industry has spent billions of dollars trying to figure out how to give exact attribution every single time, and they haven't cracked it. So there's always some ambiguity there. Yeah.

Um, let's do a couple more questions just because they're just popping in. I love that you guys are engaging. So thanks for asking these questions. And then we'll, we'll go back to screen share and show you guys some ad examples. Um, let's see. So Daniel Cabrera, what's up, Daniel? Out of San Antonio. He's crushing it with Carrot. Uh, "Does Silver Street send Facebook traffic to a non-clickable landing page?" I'm not sure what he means by that. Maybe you do. He says, "To a non-clickable landing page, face, oh, Facebook form, or the homepage of a site?" My guess is he's saying like a landing page that doesn't have like navigation on it. Oh, oh, gotcha. Yeah, yeah. So there's still a form, but there's, there's no header menu. Like a squeeze page, or sometimes they're called to, or whatever. So, yeah.

Um, so Daniel, great question, man. Some of that will depend on what kind of website the client has. So a lot of our clients are Carrot, Carrot customers, Carrot members. And so because Carrot is so can convert so well on the homepage, that's often where we send traffic. We'll look at a few things. We want, we want to know, we want to look and make sure that, you know, any customization you've done, it's still looks nice and appealing and it's not distracting or confusing. Um, we want to look to see if your call to action stays what we call above the fold on a mobile device. So meaning, can the call to action still be seen without having to scroll on most mobile devices? So typically, we start with the homepage of a Carrot site. If, if we are running a unique campaign like for a specific area, or maybe we're helping someone market a specific property, like a flip that's getting stuck on the market, then we're going to start looking at landing pages. Or for some reason, that homepage isn't converting the way we'd expect it to, then we might test a landing page. Um, my personal, this is kind of a personal opinion. I don't know, Brady, if you guys have data on this. I prefer, even if I'm using a landing page, I prefer to use one that is still clickable. And here's why. Yeah. Um, in this world, the three pages that typically get the most visitors are whatever your landing page is, so usually the homepage, your About Us, or like, "My, our company," and testimonials. Yep. So I don't want to take that away from the user when they're trying to make their decision. Um, right. Non-clickable landing pages can work well, like in certain spaces where you're like, "I just want this person to download this ebook." Like, "I don't want them to get distracted with anything else." Um, but in this world, I prefer a clickable landing page, all, all else being equal.

And we've seen the same thing as well. Another, it's, uh, it's good timing, Daniel, because next week, Trevor and I are literally talking about landing pages versus homepages, like when to use, you know, so it's good timing. We kind of did that piggybacking off this Facebook call. Um, but yeah, we see the same thing. Everything you mentioned, they want to see the About page. They want to be able to, I call it the research rabbit hole. They want to be able to go down that research rabbit hole. So. Cool.

Um, Brady, I don't think I answered the last part. And there's another question about this too, which is the Facebook lead forms. Yeah. Backer had asked something similar. "What's your opinion on Facebook lead forms versus Facebook web leads?"

Yeah, so, okay. So in general, a Facebook lead form will be lower, uh, quality than a face, than a website lead. And that is typ, that's basically just driven by the amount of effort it takes to fill out a lead, a web form versus filling out a Facebook lead form. So that extra step of going to the website, filling it out, in general, tends to, uh, create a higher quality lead. Now, that being said, that, that varies a bit by market and by campaign. Um, so we typically will start with website leads. If we're, if there's an issue with the website leads, or if we feel like we're kind of reaching a point where we want to scale faster, um, then we'll add in the Facebook lead forms. Um, and then we just keep a close eye on again, that lead value to lead to cost per lead, um, because your cost per lead will typically be lower on the Facebook lead form, um, but your close ratio might go up. So that'll change that lead value a little bit.

That makes sense. It's been a while since I've seen one of those ads. I forgot that Facebook had those lead forms. I don't even know the last time I've seen one personally. Interesting.

Um, cool. Well, let's look at, let's look at some ad creative. Um, the Facebook threads, YouTube chat's still going if you guys have any more questions, pop them in. But let's look at some, some ad creative. What's working well on Facebook and some of the other things you want to share, Kylie? And then we'll go back to Q&A.

Yeah, yeah. So here's, here's a quick outline of of what an ad is. There's, you know, four kind of main elements to it. You have your main ad copy, that's the text at the top of the ad. Now, depending on where this ad displays, this will look a little bit different where the copy is and things like that. You have the, um, hold on a second. This, this, uh, I don't, this is the, this is must be an old slide, uh, or not a finalized one because, yeah, but the thing that's missing is the visual. I have a slide because there should be.

main ad copy, your button, your headline, your description, and then this, this huge piece of the ad. I can, I can see it, the photo of the house. Yeah, but I don't have like a, I don't have a descriptor saying like, that's a part of the ad. Oh, oh, gotcha. I don't know why. So anyways, you have your copy, uh, you have your, your, your visual. So that's an image or a video. Highly saying images don't matter, you can put whatever you want and it's gonna convert 10 times out of 10, right? Yeah. Uh-huh. We don't even use images most of the time. Just kidding, don't do it. Uh, and then your headline. So Facebook has a few that you can choose. Uh, face, this is the bolded part here. And then your button. Facebook has a few you can choose from. The description is this small text down here. So those are kind of the, those are kind of the elements of the ad. Um, let's see what this one is. Maybe, maybe you can, uh, maybe you can speak this. Kylie, one mistake I feel like people see is, uh, go back one slide real quick. That bold black text near the bottom. Oh, yeah, this one here. The text here. Yeah. "Sell your s," either one. Yeah. "Sell your house on your terms, no fees or repairs." I feel like, um, especially in other industries, people mess up the purpose. Like, what's the psychology behind that spot of text on the Facebook ad? Because I see people use that for the most random stuff, like website name or, I don't know. I feel like people don't even know what they put in there by accident because maybe it's not super intuitive when you're inside Facebook. So it, it really just kind of has to do with the way an eye typically tracks over something like this, you know? So you're going to start at the top, then you're going to kind of move down to the, to the image, and then, and then when you get to the bottom, you're probably going to see that button first, and then you're going to scan there, and then you're done. Um, so it's, it's a way, it's a way to, to, it should, in, in my experience, it should be a call to action or it should be something that will grab someone's attention because if they've made it to that part in the ad, they've, they've already gone through other elements of the ad. Okay, that makes sense. That's good because I see some people trying to use it like as a, as a headline or how to grab attention. What it should, in general, be called action. I'd agree with that. I mean, if, again, though, it, it could be, it could be a headline. Like, it's interesting. You, this is what's so fascinating about digital marketing and also can be maddening is things are kind of changing on a regular basis, uh, because people's attention is getting pulled in different ways. So I don't think it would be a bad idea to test something there that's, um, maybe attention grabbing. But I think you have to be careful with the length of it for sure. So just because of the way it displays and, um, and it's, yeah, yeah, you probably would, don't want it broken up on two lines. Yeah, I mean, not the end of the world, but you defin, I mean, you definitely don't want to try to put a paragraph in there. Yeah. What kind of, uh, what kind of visuals do you see working? Is it more, uh, like realistic photos? Like, not realistic, real photos of houses like this? Okay, cool. Yep. So two steps ahead of me. We have, uh, and Brady, I think we still have this. Like, I don't, I don't. Well, we have ad templates that we use and we can give away for free if we want to do that. Um, but there's lots of different ways you can approach this. And the name of the game is test. So Facebook allows you to do something called dynamic creative. They also allow you to do split testing. I recommend either or, um, whichever kind of resonates better with you. And, um, dynamic, dynamic is a little easier if your budget is, um, not huge. But couple of, like, general principles. One is the homes need to look like homes that are in your market. So an ex, example would be, if you're in Minnesota and you're running ads and the home's got palm trees in the front yard, people will either consciously or subconsciously just ignore that because they're like, oh, this is not for me. I don't have palm trees. I have a pine tree covered in snow. So you want to localize your ads. Um, I think, I mean, you can find stock imagery, but I strongly recommend that you use actual photos. So if you're just starting out, then go D, like, go look at some homes that you're like, that's the type of home I want to do a deal on. Take a photo of it. Put it in your ads. Um, you should take photos of every home you do a deal, inside, outside. Um, I just realized none of these photos are like the inside of a home, but we, we have great success with like the inside of a hoarder home, for example. Yeah. Or something like that because it's really like attention grabbing and it also really drives home the point that like, we buy houses as is. It doesn't matter what condition they're in. So, um, so s, simple image like here's just the image, right? Um, sometimes we'll put like a text overlay like this over it. Um, we've had success with like stuff simple like this. Um, Mike is asking, like, funny, serious, crappy house, etc. Some of that is going to depend on you and your personality and your brand too. So like, if you're okay being a little bit goofy and funny, then yeah, you know, have, have some fun with it. Remember that you're speaking to your audience, so you need to do it in a way that is still very clearly addressing their, um, concerns and solving their problem. So. And then of course, videos. I can't play the videos in here, but, um, a video can be like a walkthrough of a home. It can be standing in front of a home. Either you're in the frame or you're not in the frame, but you're just narrating, like, uh, how you solve someone's problem, uh, because of like the age of TikTok and the, um, the, like computerized voices. So I'm not talking like an AI. I'm not talking like a, uh, an AI that like comes up with what to say for you. That's, that's another conversation. But like using a pre-programmed voice instead of your own, you can also do that too. You know, if, if you guys spend any time on TikTok, you know what I'm talking about. Like you can choose from these different voices. Um, or testimonials. And that's what this one here in the bottom is, is like, just get your customer to really quickly say why they worked with you and how you solve their problem. Especially for, you know, we're talking about retargeting ads, like testimonials are what people want to see. Like, think about the time when you've Googled a mattress and then, you know, 20 seconds later, you go into your Facebook feed and what's the first thing in the top of the feed? It's a testimonial about how much someone loved their, whatever, purple mattress, you know? Yeah. Um, yeah, so good point, Brady, because this slide is actually like all, all kinds of Facebook ads. So on the retargeting side, testimonials, you can do text testimonials too if you don't have a video. Just again, we have templates, um, that we can, we can probably link to or just reach out to me and you can turn them into text, put them on there. Um, we've used, we've used ads that very directly call out like, your cash offer is waiting, um, or, you forgot to get your offer. What are you waiting for? Like, very directly speaking to the idea of like, hey, remember us. You've already, you've already experienced us, but you forgot. So similar to like a, like an abandoned cart email, if you've ever been shopping online and you have a, you're, and then you don't buy, sometimes you'll get an email from that company if you got far enough to give them the your email and they'll be like, hey, your cart's waiting or hey, you forgot something or whatever. Yeah, that's good stuff. So I want to share my, my screen just very briefly because Mike, uh, Mike Laren had asked, cartoon artsy. I don't, I mean, I'm only going to speak from this personally. It's not, I'm not running a million ads a day and have data to back this about when, but when I feel like, when myself or most people see cartoony animated ads, like they don't really catch. Think there's a reason why you don't see a lot of them, especially in the age of TikTok. Um, but this is probably one example where I think it, you can get away with or where it might be beneficial to you. Something quote, quote, animated. So home buying guys, Adam at Lance and Dallas, this is their logo, and they run with this in a lot of their marketing. So, you know, they could use this on a, on a bus stop ad, on a business card, in videos, wherever. So I could foresee, I could imagine something like maybe this bubble is in the bottom right corner of a square ad, and then it's a white background, and then there's like a, a speech bubble or like a text message. Difference because a text message is, it's, it's real. It's not like, oh, because what happens when you see overly animated or if it's too pre-made and there's nothing real about it, the first thing that goes through the subconscious is like, okay, a marketer trying to get me. You know, somebody made a thing to try and get my attention. Scroll past it. But if it, but if it's something more real and it's a little bit closer to the other things that you see from friends and family in your feed, you're more likely to stop. That's just how our brains work. And so maybe like a text message bubble and then that little cartoon or something like that. That's see, and we, uh, we actually run all that ads for, uh, Adam and Lance. So I'm sure at some point we've, we've tested that or are testing that. I'd have to go and look specifically, but yeah. Well, cool, man. Um, so there's, there's a wealth on ad creative. Um, let's tackle a couple questions and then, um, you know, it's funny, we were, you and I were talking and we're planning on going through like the tactical, but based on the questions, I'm just getting the sense that like that wouldn't be the best use of time. If anyone feels like, hey, they really want to do, they really do want to know the tactical, how to set up a pics and all that, then just let us know and we'll talk about it. But we have tutorials on that or you can reach out to Kylie's team or, or, or support over chat, care.com and we'll help you. Um, but couple more questions. So let's see. Um, oh, here's a good one. I think I know the answer. Eric girth, can you target a competitor's audience? Uh, not, not really, not anymore. Yeah. So, yeah. Uh, no, no, not anymore. Yeah. Days are gone. You'd have to sneak a pixel onto their website. Yeah, which I don't even know how you do that. But ethically, no. I'm sure some guy out there maybe on Fiverr, I maybe in sketchier territories, I don't know. Not badmouthing Fiverr, I'm just saying ethically, there's not a way. I don't even know a way to do it. In all seriousness. Yeah. Um, Daniel said, Daniel's got two questions. What should be a typical budget for a face, Facebook retargeting on a daily basis? And then what does Silver Street charge to manage Facebook and Google retargeting? Yeah, so budget, I'll give you, I'll give you some, some kind of some range there. Um, it's, I would say you probably start with like three to five bucks a day if you wanted to go like, kind of light into it. Um, and that's really going to be a function of how big your audience is and what your expectations are. So, um, if he's in San Antonio, so I, I think San Antonio's around like three million, prob, like pretty big market. Yes. Well, well, to, so that, but would also matter how much traffic he's got going to his website. So if we're talking just retargeting, right? And I think he's ranking number one or at least pretty high for like sell my house fast, so he's probably got a good amount of traffic. Yeah. So, uh, I, I wouldn't go any lower than light three to five bucks a day. So that, I mean, that's going to end up being like, like 150 bucks a month. It's not a lot. Um, I think if you can get to the point where your campaign will deliver and you can spend like 500 plus, that's better. And then again, some of that just kind of depends on, you're gonna have to kind of scale that a little bit because, um, and look at how you can increase the size of that audience. If you've got a well-ranking site in a big market, then you could easi, easily spend like much more than that. So I know that's a little bit vague. I'm trying to give people a way to think about it versus like a specific answer. Um, your budget variables. Yeah, your budget. If your budget is too small, then you'll see issues with like delivery. Facebook will tell you like, oh, we're stuck in the learning phase, um, or you'll see that like the number of people you're reaching is like a small number compared to what your audience should be. Uh, if, if you're spending, if your budget is too high, then, uh, you either won't spend all of that budget or your frequency rate will get really high. So frequency is the number of times someone has seen the same person has seen your ads. So if your frequency is like 10 plus, um, then you'll want to relook at how you are swapping out your creative, how frequently you're doing that, or you may want to relook at your audience in your budget. Oh, Brady, I lost you. I, my bad, I muted myself. Sorry. That was a good question. Um, I have one and then I think maybe we'll wrap it up with, uh, with a good question that kind of branches off of, um, um, retargeting offline marketing. So my question is, it's a real example. Yesterday I scrolling on Facebook and I saw an ad for somebody's, somebody's mushroom coffee. I don't know why I get these ads. There's like a million mushroom coffees out there. And I clicked on the ad, watched the ad, left Facebook, came back to Facebook, and I immediately got another ad for the same product, different business page. It's an influencer. And, and, and I see this in the influencer affiliate space, but I'm just curious because if you can't target, um, if you can't directly target competition, how are these guys like, okay, Brady watched the mushroom coffee video. Now an affiliate's coming at me instantly. Do you know how that works? Are you saying it's an affiliate that is selling the same brand or a different brand? Same brand, yeah. So there's a couple ways that could work. One is that that mushroom, that that company is allowing affiliates to have pixel data on website traffic. Okay. I don't know, you know, like, uh, they could be saying like, yeah, if you're an affiliate, we'll share this audience with you. Um, and if your ad is the one that gets them, then you get the affiliate credit. I don't know. Uh, or they could be, um, doing some interest-based targeting. And I'd have to look specifically into the, uh, into the mushroom coffee world. Somebody's really tagged me on like, Brady loves mushroom coffee. And I don't know why because I've never had it. But yeah. Um, and then here, so then also there's the thing where you can tell Facebook whether you're okay with your ad showing up with like competitors. Um, and then here's, here's the other piece to that. So, uh, Facebook no longer allows us to do like lookalike audiences for real estate. That's, that's something that changed a few years back. But they still have a, they still have a little checkbox that says, allow Facebook to expand your audience if Facebook thinks it will improve the ad performance. Yeah. So my hypothesis is that Facebook knows that you just searched for mushroom coffee and so now they're going to show you ads from other people that are trying to sell mushroom coffee. So, um, yeah, but I don't, I don't have like a specific explanation of how that works data-wise. That's interesting. I'm going to guess maybe they're going with the, uh, the affiliate approach. Maybe they're sharing the pixel. Yeah, I would, I would think based on the end. Anyways, um, all right, we have time for about one or two more questions. I know the threads still pop in. Um, Mike Lorenzi, you're asking about pixel, how to add the pixel to, uh, the form page. Just for the sake of time, we can only answer a limited number of questions on the call. Otherwise, I'd love to stay on your all day with you guys. But, uh, hit us up through the chat. Just go to care.com, hit, hit up our team through the chat. We'd love to help you out. Get into the weeds of it there. Um, let's see. Here's a quick one before last question. Brady, I was just gonna say, like, yeah, yeah, go to carrot chat or you can find me in the marketplace, Kent Marketplace, Silver Street Marketing. Um, and I'm more than happy to help like continue answering questions too, whether it's via email or jumping on a phone call or whatever. I appreciate that, man. Uh, Daniel said his frequency is 19.3. He said, dang. Dang is right. Little high. So might, that's high. I, yeah, so 19.3. So frequency on its own, I wouldn't be like, oh man, this campaign's in trouble because I'd want to look at everything else too. Like, are you getting leads or not? But that is pretty high, man. Like, it's probably time to swap some creative, build that audience out a little bit. Yeah. Okay, so, um, one quick question and then we'll wrap it up with the long question. I promise this time. Mike says, not necessarily retargeting question, but are your initial Facebook ads under special category for fair housing or are you able to target a customized audience? 100% under Fair, under special ad category. So, um, we've, you will, if you do not identify as a special ad category, your account will get flagged. And if it happens more than once, there's a good chance you get banned. So you've got to, you've got to identify as a special ad category. So you can't use lookalike audiences. You can still use custom audiences, so your lists, you can still upload lists and target them. You just cannot create lookalike audiences from those lists. Okay, that's good. Okay, so last question. We were talking about this. I don't think we hit on it, but we plan to. Baxter said, you mentioned retargeting lists from other marketing channels, cult, call mail, etc. How often should or could these lists be updated in the Facebook audience? Tell us about how that works about plugging in data from other sources. Yeah, so the quick answer to that question, Baxter, is as frequently as you have new good data. So, um, and as frequently as you have the capacity to update it. So there's, there's a couple ways to do that. Um, typically it's manual. So you're going to upload the list, like a CSV spreadsheet, you're going to upload it, and then to update that, you would just go and add another CSV to that. Um, so you could do that as frequently as you wanted to. There's no, um, like rule to that as long as the data is quality, like get it in there. Um, there are, like, there are ways to do that via like an API, but, um, I mean, you just, you just go in there and add it in there. Nice. Cool. That's a good answer. Um, go ahead. I was add because the other question I always get there, Brady, too, is like, how much data should I put in there? And the answer is the same. It's like, assuming the data is good, put it all in there. Um, big, bigger list is typic, in general, bigger is better when it comes to a Facebook audience. So, um, if you can get it bigger without like dramatically compromising quality or whatever. But the cool thing about the, the custom audiences is that if Facebook can't match them, it just won't serve an ad to them. So, um, you know, if the skip tracing data is not very good on a few people, like it just won't match them. Like it's not going to, it's not going to, uh, hurt you. What would be bad is if you like, if you went and bought, you know, a bad list of, of people who don't kind of fit the criteria, then then that potentially you're spending money you shouldn't be spending. That makes sense. So if, if it can't match someone, you don't have to worry about wasting those marketing dollars. Yeah, it just won't match. Okay, cool. Um, last thing. Daniel said, I don't know if you want to answer this here. Uh, Daniel's asking, do we go over what Silver Street charges for retargeting? Oh, uh, I don't know, Brady, you tell me, like, uh, if we want to, if we want to jump into that or have them reach out to me in the marketplace. Um, I, yeah, I'm good either way. It's up to you. Yeah, I'm okay. Um, so there's, there's some variables there to consider, but I would say you probably, if you're looking at just, just retargeting, you probably want a budget of like 15, 500 a month, um, or so. If you're wanting to do broader Facebook marketing, you want a budget of 2,000 to 2500, and that's ad spend and, um, uh, management. So cool. Typically, typically our management fee is around a thousand bucks a month for full management. Um, if we're just doing retargeting, it's, it's a little bit less, not by much. And then you have your ad budget. Yeah, I think that's pretty reasonable when you think about, um, the, well, one, the amount of time you spend managing, troubleshooting a campaign. I've seen a lot of like, really technical questions coming through the chat about, can't get my pixel working, I can't get Instagram to approve this, I, how should I, you know, there's so many questions. And the questions like, it's not like you just answer all those questions and then they stop coming. There, you know, you're, it's called managing because you're managing that lead source. So there's your time cost and the opportunity cost of like, could I be out there closing deals or should I be managing my Facebook ads? Yeah, yeah. We're never not optimizing or troubleshooting something. It's just, it's just the way that it is. I mean, if, if you really are thinking like, I just want to do it on on my own or what you like, you can, you totally can. And we have a course also in the Facebook Marketplace. Um, and then we also offer what we call a quick start where we do all of the setup for you. We hand it back to you to manage. That, the thing to just consider there, like Brady, you were just saying, is it's just tradeoffs, right? It's time versus money. Um, it's, it's brain power and potentially frustration versus money. Um, so yeah, some of those things to consider. And, and like I said, if you're like, if you're on the fence going like, I don't know, and like, just call me or just go to the marketplace, schedule a time, let's chat. I'm happy to answer questions. And if it's a, if it's a good fit, awesome. And if it's not, that's okay too. If I can be helpful on your, on your journey to, uh, in, in building your business, then I'm happy to do that. Sweet. Well, thanks, man. I think we got probably nine out of 10 questions. We're just past the hour, so we're a little overtime, but, um, yeah, thanks everybody for hopping on. I hope you got value out of this. Um, hop on next week. So next week, Trevor and I are talking about landing pages versus homepages. It's not just a yes or no question. There's a lot to explore there because there's a lot of, there's a lot of talk and hype and buzz in the market about landing pages and a lot of conflicting opinions on like, should we use them? Should we not? But we're going to bring the data in to help you make a decision when to use them, where to use them, etc. But hopefully, y'all found that helpful. That was a lot of information. Um, I feel, I feel good about it. Kylie, I feel like we delivered. Uh, thanks for engaging and, uh, asking such great questions in the coaching call. So we appreciate you all and, uh, we'll see you next week, either in your carrot app or on, in the Facebook group at 11:00 AM Pacific. But thanks, everyone. Thanks, Kylie. Thank you. See y'all.