Why Calvinism Fails | Leighton Flowers | Soteriology 101

[Music] Hello and welcome to Sociology 101. Today, we're going to be responding to a video put out by needgod.net. I believe the, uh, the young man there on the headset and who is answering questions from callers is named Ryan, and I'm basing that upon what I saw in the comment section here, so hopefully that is correct. Um, otherwise, seems like a great guy. I love his accent. Um, as you know, anybody with a, especially a, a British accent or almost any other accent but besides a Texan, sounds smarter than I'll ever hope to be. It's so I enjoy listening to this guy. I, I listened to some of his other content just to kind of check out where he's coming from. And again, just like I say about John Piper and MacArthur and Sproul and so many of the other Calvinistic leaning theologians out there, um, I would probably say the same about this young man. Ryan seems like a great brother, um, has a great ministry and is doing great things. Simply because we called out somebody for something we don't agree with regarding the influence of Calvinism in their ministry, doesn't mean we can't love and respect them. I just, I have to emphasize that over and over and over again because, uh, the blight of social media is to sometimes, I think, take things so far as to, uh, degrade people, um, not treat them as brothers in Christ, um, try to win the relationship instead of win the argument. As I've always said, try to, uh, out of the motivation of love for somebody, correct them, not out of a motivation of one-upsmanship or just debating for the sake of debating. And so, uh, that, that's the spirit in which I'm addressing this brother and this video. He has a call in from a young, uh, new Christian who is really struggling with predestination and the concepts, uh, surrounding the topic that we talk about, uh, pretty regularly here, obviously. And that's why I wanted to address this because I think Ryan unintentionally gives this man really bad advice, um, which is not based upon what the scripture actually teaches, but based upon a faulty understanding of scripture. Um, now, again, we all can make mistakes. We all can misinterpret passages. We all can come to a wrong conclusion. And I, and that's, and that's exactly what I believe Ryan has done. I think he means well. I think he's well-intending. I think he, he, he is striving to do what God wants him to do. But like me, for over a decade of my life, he's misinterpreting Romans 9, uh, Romans 8 and 9, actually, and several other passages. And we're going to go through those today.

Now, we have a lot of shorts going out. Uh, Caleb has done an awesome job capturing shorts from over the course of our ministry since 2014 and putting them back out there. So we're having regular content go out there all the time that's short. So for you who like short videos, it is there. And there's more than enough for those of you who are theology geeks like me and you like longer content. This is going to be one of those videos for you. Longer content and a, uh, option for question and answers as we go along. Now, obviously, I don't see all the questions that come through because they're coming through all the different social media apps and so they scroll by pretty quickly on my screen as I'm talking. But as I do see those, um, and as they're marked, I can go back and answer some of those questions toward the end of the broadcast. So you might want to copy and paste your question because you can post it again later in the broadcast and, uh, an opportunity for me to answer. And before we jump in, as always, remember this is a listener-supported ministry. We could not do this without our patrons. Our patrons make this possible. Thank you, patrons, for giving on a regular basis and helping us to be a voice in a plethora of voices that are more Calvinistic. And, uh, the Calvinists have done a very good job getting behind the scholars from their perspective, promoting their books and their materials and their podcasts and their broadcasts and their, uh, curriculum. Um, we've got to do better to help people to understand God's love and provision for every man, woman, boy, and girl. No one perishes for a lack of atonement. No one, uh, dies and goes to hell and says, God didn't want me. God, Jesus didn't die for me. There's not a single person in this world that God did not love and provide for. That is our message, and that is the, the heart of what the gospel really is all about. The good news is not that God loves a few and dams the rest in eternity past for reasons beyond their control. That's not good news. That's really bad news. In fact, the good news is that God has provided the way of salvation. The first Christians were called the Way for a reason, why? Because they were teaching the Way, the Way of Salvation. There is a Way of Salvation, and you, and anyone listening at the sound of my voice, and anyone else in this world can have relationship with their creator, their God, because their creator God loves them and wants them to have relationship. God has not predestined most of humanity to destruction. That is a false doctrine. It's a false teaching. It's, it's made by good, well-intended brothers and sisters in Christ, but it is a false teaching. You hear that? I can believe that a brother has a false doctrine, false teaching, a misunderstanding, just as I held to for 10 years of my life. I misunderstood what the Bible was saying. That's what I believe Ryan has done. And because of that, Ryan is giving really bad advice to this young man, this young Christian who is struggling with his faith. And that's why we're going through this. If you have not liked this video or subscribed, please do that. That helps us a ton in spreading the news of God's love and provision. So please do that and share this on social media as you have an opportunity. That would really be helpful. And yes, I do see the side chat comments already coming in, um, and, and I appreciate those. I, I noticed that several of you say, oh, I, I've been watching him. Or I've heard of him. I didn't know he was a Calvinist. That, I hear that more often than I've heard. Matter of fact, here in Dallas, Matt Chandler is very, very popular. Of course, many of you know my history with Matt. We went to school together. I helped to convert him to believe in the fifth point of Calvinism, the L of TULIP, and, uh, in the, in, in the, uh, student center there with Chris Kennedy and Brett, oh, I shouldn't throw out names there. I don't know where, where they stand theologically, if they're in their church or they're going. Leon, no, don't mention my name. Um, I, I'm not throwing you out there, brothers. I have no idea where you stand theologically today. Um, but, uh, but we, we, we, we grappled with Matt Chandler over that doctrine because he was really pushing back on the L of limited atonement. And y'all remember my, my history with Matt. I love Matt. I think he's a great brother. Um, he's doing great ministry here in Dallas. But I, I remember, um, someone I worked with who goes to that church and, and knew me and was talking to me about Calvinism and how much he doesn't like Calvinism. And he says, well, I've been going to The Village Church. And I was like, okay, well, how do, how do you, how do you settle there since it's Calvinistic? He goes, oh, no, no, Matt's not a Calvinist. I like, no, I'm pretty sure Matt's a Calvinist. Yeah, have you read, have you read the statement of faith of The Village Church? And it was just one of those things. A lot of people just, I, he said, I've been listening to him for years. I had no idea he was a Calvinist. Um, people have done that with, with, um, MacArthur. Um, I was at a, a conference I was teaching in, and I think it was Arizona, um, and a guy came up to me afterwards with a, a MacArthur Study Bible and he says, you mentioned MacArthur, you know, in passing there with Sproul and some other names. He says, MacArthur is not a Calvinist. I've got, I've got his Bible right here. He, I said, all right, you want me to show you where, where he, let's open to Romans 9, and look at the comments at the bottom of the page. Um, yes, jump across. Brother is a, a Calvinistic, uh, uh, Baptist, Baptist leaning, at least, uh, and, and that's pretty obvious for those of us who've played and listened to MacArthur, uh, throughout this video. But, um, there's a lot of people who are out there teaching, and they very rarely bring up this topic, or when they do bring up this topic, it's so vague that people don't catch on that they're, that they're speaking Calvinistic. It's like David Allen has often said, the Calvinists have the same vocabulary, but a different dictionary. And so a lot of times they'll sound exactly the same as a non-Calvinistic brother preacher preaching right next to them, and they'll sound exactly the same, say the exact same thing, but have a different meaning behind what they're saying. And so sometimes that can get confusing. It's only when there are really, really specific questions, like you hear here from the young man, he is referred to as Dr. Bones on his profile pic, I guess. And so Dr. Bones is asking this question as a new believer, and he's asking Ryan these questions about predestination. And because he's asking very specific questions, it's very clear where Ryan stands theologically, as more of a Calvinistic leaning. And I say Calvinistic leaning because I'm not sure where he stands on the L of limited atonement, for example. There are a lot of four-point Calvinists out there. And so he doesn't get specific enough, U, necessarily, that I can remember anyway. We, we'll listen to it, and, uh, you'll see. But he gives the, the, the definite pat answers that you would typically hear from a Calvinist when asked these questions. And that's one of the, the reasons I picked this video, not only because he has 111,000, uh, yeah, 100,000, 111,000, yes, um, subscribers, and, and obviously some great influence, and he's a well-spoken brother. I mean, he's easy on the ears to listen to, like I said, because of his accent, um, sounds smart. And so I'm sure he has a lot of influence. That's one of the reasons we want to confront this. This is one of the reasons we want to play this. It's not because I, I'm out to get him or I want to, I want to bring him down or I'm going to. No, I want to, I, it's because I love this brother, and I want those who are influenced by him to be influenced rightly by the word of God. That's why, that's what motivated me to do this. I, I've asked God in my prayer, Lord, what is my motivation for doing this? And I pray for Ryan, and I pray for Dr. White. For many of you know, when I was set to debate him, I committed to pray for Dr. White and his family every day up to the debate. That helps to soften my heart and to recognize why am I doing what I'm doing? It can't be just for one-upsmanship. It can't be just out of a motivation of putting the other guy down. No, it needs to be from a heart of love. I want to win, not just the argument. I want to win the relationship. I want to win somebody over through love. And, and you can, you can speak truth with love, and that's very, very, very important. Um, I can't always, um, do this during the middle of the broadcast because I would lose my place, um, as we go. But as I have opportunity to do this, um, I want to thank the Super Chats like Zoey Michaels. Thank you for your Super Chat. He says, good afternoon from Miami, brother. Flowers question, if I enroll in Trinity, which classes do you teach so that I can know which to select? Blessings. Um, you can ask Trinity, um, you can email them and ask them for a list of courses of the different professors, and they would certainly help you with that. And, uh, you should consider Trinity Seminary. It's a great seminary, and I am honored to be a professor of theology with Trinity Seminary. Trinity.edu. Link is in the show notes, so go and check that out. Zoey, thank you for mentioning that. Also wanted to mention Luth Lexor. Thank you for your Super Chat. He says, Hey Leighton, you've been a very, you've been very helpful in helping me revitalize my faith in Christ as I've left Calvinism. It's amazing to be able to say from the bottom of my heart that God loves the world. Thank you for all you do. Um, thank you, brother, for that, um, very kind comment. I, I get comments like that weekly, and that's what keeps me going as well, um, from people who are have left Calvinism or who have avoided becoming Calvinists because of the content and the materials we're putting out there. And, and we're really striving, obviously, to, uh, to represent Calvinists fairly. You notice I'm playing a Calvinist in his own words. I'm not just saying here's what he said and here's why I disagree. I'm letting him speak for himself. I don't know how to represent a Calvinist any better than to let them represent themselves. And that's why we read from their confessions. That's why we state, uh, read from Calvin and MacArthur and other Piper and other leading Calvinists today. And so that's why we're doing this. That's why I have the video on the screen so you can hear what the Calvinist says, and then we can contend with what we're, we think he's got wrong. That's the purpose of this, and that's why we're doing it. Um, I also want to encourage you as you listen to this, if you find a clip within this that you like and that you want to clip out and share, maybe even with Ryan or with, uh, with Dr. Bones there, whoever it may be, so that they can know about this, or you want to send a link to them if you know them, please do. Um, I, I, I may try to put a comment underneath a video that this, uh, that we are doing this response in love, and we, we, we appreciate what this, this ministry is doing, but at the same time, we really want people to understand the other perspective and understand that we, we do hold to a view of God's love and provision for every man, woman, boy, and girl. Um, and Caleb, thank you for, for your, uh, nice words there, brother. Caleb has worked with me for, I don't know, Caleb, you'd know how many years now, two or three, four years. I'm not very good with time and how much it's flown, but he's been working with me for a number of years, and I love, uh, having Caleb on my team and I appreciate him so much and all that he does. All right, with that said, let's jump in here, and we're picking up about the two-hour and five-minute mark where Dr. Bones has just jumped on again. He's a young Christian, and he's struggling. And, uh, let's, let's listen in, and let me know sound-wise if this is okay. I, I can turn it, uh, up, or I can turn it a little bit further down if I, uh, if I need to, but let me know if the sound is okay.

Yeah, I've got, I mean, what to say, but really the last, last couple conversations you've had, thing has been rough, man. My journey with Christ has been weird. I started off not really believing in God because life was really hard. And I was raised in a kind of Catholic home, but we didn't go to church, we didn't do anything. It was more of like the Easter and Christmas, you know, my mom's so beautiful, when my grandmother, the most devout Christian I've ever known, but she wasn't in my life. But so, like growing up, you hear about good gods and it doesn't feel good because life's so horrible. And hearing it as a kid and not getting good information on it kind of turned, turned me away from it. God saved me before I ended everything, and I don't want to get into everything because I know you're trying to end stream here soon. But yeah, God saved me in my life. And so I, I believe I have faith in God and I know that God is real. But, you know, I, I'll turn away from things and I'll like pursue a different direction and I'll fall again. And I, I'll scrape the knee. And then I read things like predestination in like Romans 8. Um, and it's like, it starts off so beautiful. It's like the Holy Spirit is interceding for you because you don't know what to say. Like, that's such a beautiful thing to read. And it's like, but for those that are predestined, it's like, well, what if I'm not? Like, what if, what if the ones that I care about aren't? Like, all these people, like, does that not remove the goodness of God? If others, I don't think it does.

Okay, now before he answers again, we're interrupting here because this is my response video to them. And so, uh, you'll see me have to have to cut them off. And I'm not cutting them off to be disrespectful, but I want you to understand where we're coming from and kind of point counterpoint. So he's asked a good question. He's like, this, this flow in chapter 8 seems to be talking about these great things about God's goodness and, uh, his interceding for us. And then all of a sudden, oh yeah, but it's only good for those predestined because he has a Calvinistic understanding of predestination. And so the question is, is, is that the correct doctrine of predestination? Because Ryan is going to go on and, and, and obviously defend the Calvinistic view of predestination, which is that God has selected certain individuals before the foundation of the world for reasons unknown to us. It's in the secret council of his will. He picked certain people and not others for reasons we don't know. He picked them, and he's going to cause them through irresistible grace to believe in the gospel so as to be saved. And the rest are born in a condition where they can't believe the gospel. They never want to because their desires are corrupt from birth, and they will always reject the gospel. They will always reject the things of God because that's the way God decreed it. God decreed for the fall. He decreed for the result of the fall to be ultimately that all people would be born hating God unless he picked them before they were born and causes them through an irresistible or effectual work of grace to love him. So they're born hating him by decree, unless he decrees for them to love him. And that's the doctrine of predestination. God has predestined not only that salvation, according to Calvin and other leading Calvinistic confessions, but he has predetermined whatsoever comes to pass. All things are brought to pass according to his divine sovereign decree. Now, Ryan doesn't get into that aspect of it. He's only talking about soteriological predestination. So we're going to try to limit our discussion to that point in specific. And so that, that's the, that's the doctrine that you're about to hear Ryan defend, is the concept of Calvinistic predestination. And, and what we would say, no, what's being represented as is in my book, The Potter's Promise. If you want to pick that up, I've got a line-by-line starting with verse, uh, chapter 8 into chapter 9, on The Potter's Promise. If you want to buy that, or a lot of the content online for free, so it's not just about me selling something. Some people just prefer to open it up or listen to it audio, which, by the way, it's out on audio too, so you can grab it there and listen to it. Um, but some people want to hear the, hear the content here, talk about it. And there's a lot of videos out there going through Romans 8 and 9. And what we, we obviously talk about with, uh, chapter 8 is him talking about those destined beforehand, those in the past who loved God. That God has, that's why he switches to past tense when he gets to verse 29. He's talking about those in the past, the predestined, the same reference that he has in chapter 11 when he talks about Israel. That, that those destined beforehand will be conformed to the image of his son, and or have been even conformed to the image of his son, that they may be the firstborn of many brethren. And so the predestined is not about God choosing certain individuals arbitrarily or unilaterally before they're born. It's about God knowing and having an intimate relationship with people in the past, known in the past, predestined, destined beforehand to be made like Christ. And so when we talk about the doctrine of predestination, it's a different concept. It's a different view. And I know when you've always held the one view, sometimes it's hard to shift over. The duck and the rabbit thing we've talked about before, it's hard to shift over and see it from another direction. And sometimes it takes work to put down your preconceptions and back away and go, okay, could this be a viable way of understanding this passage? And I'm asking you to do that. I'm asking you, if you're a Calvinist and you read this passage from more of a Calvinistic bent, I'm asking you to put down those presuppositions for a moment, back away, and approach it and look at this as another option of a way of understanding it. And realize that even most scholars, when you study the full scope of Christian history, have held to the view more closely aligned to what I'm proposing than what the Calvinist is proposing. Believe it or not, it doesn't seem like that now, obviously with the internet and the way in which Calvinists have dominated the discussion. But it is just a fact of the matter that more people have interpreted Romans 8:9 like we do than like the Calvinist typically does. And again, that doesn't make me right. That would be a, a fallacy of, you know, popularity. Like if, if a ver, a particular view is more popular, it must be right. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying it, it deserves at least as much attention, at least as much consideration on your part. Consider for a moment the most popularly held understanding of these passages. And when you understand predestination as God predetermining, destining beforehand, what will come of those who put their faith in Christ, or what will come of those who refuse to do so, there's a totally different concept than God predestining who will and won't believe. Because the two times that Paul uses the term predestination in chapter 8 and in Ephesians 1 are both about God predestining people to become conformed in the image of his son, and predestined people to become holy and blameless, which is exactly the same thing. It's synonymous. Becoming holy and blameless is, is the same as being conformed to the image of his son. It doesn't say he's conforming, he, he's predestining certain people to become believers. It says predestined believers to become like Jesus. He's predestined believers, those who are in Christ, to become holy and blameless. I just put out, Caleb actually just remixed and put out a video on Ephesians 1 that I encourage you to go listen to. It's not a very long video that walks through that and pulls in all the proof texts to establish why we believe what we do with regard to predestination and Ephesians 1. And that ties directly into what we're hearing here on Romans 8. So with that said, now let's listen to a Calvinist give a response to this brother's question. Because now, first of all, if you're ever wondering, like, am I predestined or am I not predestined? The answer to that question is, what do you believe in Christ? If you believe that Christ paid for your sins and that's, you know, you're genuinely believing, then you are. Then you know you're of the predestined. You're of the, unless it's, unless there's evanescent grace, according to Calvin. Now, again, I'm not saying that Ryan necessarily agrees with Calvin, but Calvin even argues that there are some people who openly profess Christ, who express their love for Christ, who believe, genuinely think they're saved, but they have a false faith. They don't have a genuine faith. And God actually gives them this evanescent, I never can pronounce it exactly right, but, uh, I used to call effervescent. People make F, E, V, E, N, T grace, a fake faith, a fake faith that God gives people. Because how else do you explain the number of people who express seemingly genuine faith and even live a, a large majority of their life following Christ, but who cease to do so? Even Calvinists believe that their faith isn't real because if it was real, it would persist. And so why would they do that? If God decrees whatsoever comes to pass under Calvinism, then he would decree that people, some people believe, claim they believe in Christ, genuinely believe that they trust in Christ, but really don't, or later, as you'll hear and describe, those people who have a false understanding that faith comes through not only, um, believing Christ, but also good deeds. That's all according to God's decree, according to true Calvinism. Now, whether Reinhold to that or not, we'd have to ask him. But that, that's the problem with this perspective is that you have people who genuinely believe they're Christians who are not really Christians. And Ryan, I know would acknowledge that there are people who are like that. So saying the way you know you're elect is because you'll, because you believe. What about those with a false faith who aren't really believing? In other words, you're not giving them any real assurance because you can't know if God hasn't chosen you to be one of those people who abandon the faith and have a false faith. How, how can you possibly know until you get to heaven whether you're, you're elected to have a false faith or not? Because if God's the kind of God that would do that, then how do you know he hasn't done it to you? You can't, not until you get to heaven. So you'd have to be anxious about that because you're like, I know that those who believe are those who God has chosen. If someone was not chosen, they wouldn't ever want to believe in the first place. So that's reassuring for yourself. Now, in terms about others, like your friends or your family members, if they believe, you can be like, well, if that's genuine faith, yeah, they are. But if someone's not a Christian at this point, you can't know. There's no E on the back of anyone's, uh, neck or or P or predestined on the back of everyone's neck. And so you just have to preach the gospel to everyone. And those whom God's working on, they're the ones whom God will bring in, and God will save. Um, and so I think it's actually a comforting thing that God does the work of conversion in us, and therefore God keeps us. He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Okay, now there's an assumption here in this effectuality or irresistibility. Again, same vocabulary, different dictionary, I would say. Yes, it's God who's worked on us. Yes, God did all those things he just described. But I don't believe he does so effectually for a pre-selected group of people. That's the difference. So he says the same thing I would say. Yes, I give God all the credit for my conversion because God is the one who, uh, worked in me, and God is the one who brought conviction through the Holy Spirit and through the gospel and through the church and the bride and through the conscience that he's written on my heart and creation screaming his presence. He did all of those things. But guess what? That doesn't remove my responsibility to put my trust in him. I can resist that grace. I can resist his calling. I can resist the, the evidences and the, the conscience. I can, I can, my conscience can become seared and hardened if I continue to ignore it. I can ignore the voice of God and eventually, as Hebrews warns, don't ignore, ignore the voice of God, eventually you'll grow hardened to it, cut off from it. Um, and so all of those things he just said are true, but he, he, he embeds within those things irresistibility for a pre-selected number. You just remove that part of it, and what he said is exactly right. What he insists on saying is basically, God, in order to get credit for the gift that God's given you, he has to do it for pre-chosen people effectually, otherwise he really shouldn't get all the credit. We're like, why? And what other realm wouldn't the gift giver get all the credit for giving gifts? Even if he doesn't give gifts irresistibly, a gift does not have to be given irresistibly for the gift giver to get all the credit for giving it. God should get all the credit for the gifts he's given, even if we have the responsibility to take and use that gift appropriately or to squander that gift. The gift is still from God, and he gets all the credit for it. The ability of us to squander it or to resist it changes his glory in no way. It doesn't change the, the power and the goodness of his, his gift in any way, shape, or form. And it certainly doesn't take away his credit. What it does is it maintains our blameworthiness for those who resist the grace of God, the goodness of God provided for them. Because what's the reprobate resisting? What's the reprobate rejecting, folks, on Calvinism? The non-elect reprobate is rejecting a God who first hated him, who did not send Jesus to die for him. So he's not rejecting atonement. He didn't have atonement to reject. What is he rejecting? He's rejecting a God who created him to be rejected. Why wouldn't you reject a God who created you for damnation? If he created you to display his power of justice in damning you for something you have no control over, then they, by every definition of the term that I've ever found anyway, he's a victim. The victim of God's decree. God's decreed for him to be born in a condition where he can't want to respond positively to God, can't want to respond positively to natural creation, to special revelation, to conscience, to any revelation of God. He can't, because of the nature he was born in. In other words, he has no control over that whatsoever. And God has condemned him to an eternity in hell, separated from him, for something in which he has absolutely no control. I cannot imagine anything more unjust, or more importantly, unbiblical than that concept. It's just not a biblical concept. And again, we use this broadcast to help demonstrate that using and going through all the passages that are contending with these perspectives. We won't have time to do that in every single video to go through every one of the verses because I know some of you go, well, what about this verse or what about this verse? Search it, because more than likely we've covered some of those verses and we'll cover some of them here as we, uh, engage with this video.

That's in Philippians 1:6. So don't let it be a scary thing. It's just actually a beautiful thing. I love it that God will keep me. He began this work, he'll bring it to completion. He accomplishes everything he sets out to do. So, like, I mean, it comes to my mind that like, if we're predestined, then all those will be saved were those chosen by God. But then, like, my brain always pulls up, like, God loves all his creation. So wouldn't he want all to be saved? And if it's through God's will that he's predestining everybody, then wouldn't everybody be saved? But obviously, we know that everybody won't be saved because we're told time and time again that we won't be. Like, it's this very confusing, like, in my mind, the logic just doesn't work. And like, I get caught in this. And like, recently, I've been struggling, and life's just been crazy. And then I get caught in this kind of minefield of thought. And I try and go to pray, or I try and go to read, and I just, I can't get over the feeling of the heart of, like, feeling the sound of predestination makes it feel, how at least how it's been preached and told to me. I would, I'm not a Bible scholar. I've been saved for about two, and two and a half years. And reading the Bible for, I'm a fool, as Corinthians says, fools are. I have only worldly knowledge, none of the Bible. But does it not, it doesn't make sense.

Okay, what I, you, you hear the struggle. He's a young Christian. He admits, I don't know the Bible real well. I'm still learning. But what's been taught to this young Christian is Calvinistic doctrine, and it's baffling to him. God is not the author of confusion, but this man, based upon what Calvinists have taught him, he has been confused. Based upon their teachings, and that's why if he were to call into my show and we were to have this discussion, we would have gone a whole another direction, obviously. And he would not have left confused. He would not have left baffled. And you'll notice even when Ryan gives these answers here, he doesn't take away the confusion. He basically just says, this is the way it is because this is what the Bible says. And so you just need to deal with it, um, in a nice way. And he, he, he does so based upon what he has interpreted the Bible to say. But you'll notice that our interpretation doesn't leave people that way because the Bible doesn't leave people confused. Because we're not asking you to to hold to two contradictory perspectives, I.E., God's responsible for what you're responsible for, because that's the basis of Calvinism. It's the mystery that Calvin appealed to is that why we are held guilty for something that God controls is beyond his comprehension. He, he says he, he doesn't get it. He doesn't know why God's not blameworthy and we are. Um, that, that's because they hold to two contradictory views. You're responsible for what God's responsible for. And that's just not a biblical concept. And that's why this young man is so confused because he doesn't see how this square peg fits in the round hole. And he's right to question it because he, and I think, I think it's the God-given conscience that's been given to him says, this does not fit. It doesn't sit right. It goes against what I read about God's love and provision for all people throughout the scriptures. He may be a young Christian, but he's read enough and seen enough within the Bible to know that it teaches of God's love and provision for all people. And this doctrine of predestination, as taught by Calvinists, flies in the face of what he's learned.

Says, is this why God made the universe? I mentioned this as the previous person. Why God made the universe was for his glory, and he will be receiving glory not just for salvation of people's souls, but also for the punishing of people in hell. Okay, this is a talking point of Calvinists. God's going to receive glory from you one way or the other. He's going to receive glory from, from your life by predestining you to go to heaven, predestining you to believe in him and go to heaven, or he's going to receive glory by damning you to hell because he's predestined you to be a reprobate who can't believe in him because you don't want to. You'll, you'll reject him because of the nature you were born with, this corrupt nature that you have no control over. You were just born under Adam in a fallen condition, thus unable to want to believe in him. And that's the way God decreed it. And you will, you will glorify him in your destruction, is basically what the Calvinist is teaching. And that's exactly the answer he gives, which is basically bad news. It's not good news. It's bad news, folks, demonstrably bad news. It, it, it, and, and it undermines, as Dr. Bones pointed out, the goodness and, and the love of God and his provision for those people who end up rejecting because they're not really rejecting anything. They're just doing what God created them to do. That's an important concept for us to realize. God will receive glory for punishing people in hell for eternity because, why? Why will God receive glory for punishing people for something they have absolutely no control of? Why would God get glory for for punishing people who were born in a condition where they cannot but reject the gospel or reject the revelation through special revelation, general revelation, whatever form of revelation, conscience, anything else? What, why does that bring glory to God? Glory to God is, listen, God is maximally glorious. We, we don't give God any more glory than he already has. Okay? God is maximally glorious. Glorifying God means to make him known for who he is. That's what it means to glorify God. So what does it mean to steal God's glory? Making him known for something he's not, blaming him for something he does not do. That, that would be stealing his glory. In other words, misrepresenting God would be stealing his glory. You're not literally taking away his glory. Obviously, he's still maximally glorious. You can't control. No human being, no created being can take away God's glory or lessen his gloriousness, right? He is maximally glorious and always will be. That doesn't change when it, we talk about stealing glory. What we're saying is you're misrepresenting God for who he is. Ryan is doing that here, unintentionally. He's misrepresenting God and therefore stealing God's glory by not representing him for who he really is. And who is he really? He is a God who loves and provides for every man, woman, boy, and girl. And he has provided salvation for every single person. And that reveals him as glorious. He is the gift giver for all people. And those who reject his gift, those who perish because they refuse to love the truth so as to be saved, as Paul put it, that's on them, not on a fact that God didn't predestin them, doesn't really love them, didn't send Jesus to die for them, or any of that nonsense that has been injected by Augustine and then later Calvin, um, and many others in between, obviously.

This is a demonstration of his justice. That's why God doesn't choose to save everyone because he wants to be glorified not just for his kindness and mercy, but also for his justice. He wants to show his wrath. Let me show you a verse. Romans 9:22. What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with patience, with much patience, vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory. So, so yeah, go ahead. Do is it? I was talking to a Calvinist a while back, and that's okay.

Before he goes on, notice he just reads that verse out of context in order to answer the question. This is why God's just to make certain people for damnation and certain people for salvation. That's how he's applying that verse. Obviously, for those who follow this broadcast, for those who are familiar, walking through Romans 9 and understanding it from our perspective, you all are screaming, I know, at the screen going, no, that's not what he, what he's talking about. Um, he was talking about Israel. He's answering the question of verse six, has God's promise to Israel failed? No, it hasn't failed. And here is how God is bringing about his plan of redemption, even, even through rebellious Israelites, even through their rebellion, he is bringing about his plan of redemption. And if he hardens them in their rebellion, cuts them off in the rebellion, they aren't cut off arbitrarily for no apparent reason. They're cut off because of their unbelief, as chapter 11 goes on to tell this. They're cut off for their unbelief. If he's using them, shaping them, remolding that clay into an ignoble vessel because of it's become marred in his hands, not because he predestined it to be marred, because he marred it, but because it's become marred in his hands by choice. In other words, they rejected him, they went their own way. And now, as the sovereign, he has the right to mold that lump of clay, just like Jeremiah 18 teaches. He can mold it into an ignoble vessel to be used for his honor and his purposes, which is exactly what he just got through saying in the verses just prior to this. And plus, you can't remove it from its context. Look, look, look back a little bit in verse, um, he, he starts at verse 22. He says, um, why does he still find fault? For who resists his will? On the contrary, who are you, oh man, to answer back to God? The thing molded will it not say to the molder, why did you make me like this? Will it? In other words, Israel, now that has been molded to be one who cries out, crucify the Messiah. And in their rebellion, who are you to question God? If he's molded you to be that vessel of ignoble use, you're the one who's rejected him. You're the one who's gone your own way. And if he wants to reshape and reuse you, Israel, to bring about his plan of redemption through your rebellious actions, who are you to talk back to the sovereign? He can do whatever he wants to. Does the potter not have the right over the clay to make from the same lump? What's the same lump? The lump of Israel. The lump is Israel. He's talking about Israel. From this lump, just like in Jeremiah 18, talking about the lump he's making some for honorable use. Paul, he's made for honorable use. He's an Israelite. Other Jewish people who are believers, making them for honorable use because they're faithful, because they're listening, they refuse to bow and eat a bail because of their faithfulness, because they listen. God is using them in their, um, in their faith and their faithfulness. He's using them for honorable. But for those who rejected God and didn't listen to his voice, he's hardened or cut them off in their rebellion so as to bring about redemption through them. Does that mean they're without hope? No. Go on and read chapter 10 and 11. Those who've been cut off may be grafted back in if they leave their unbelief, according to chapter 11. So he's not saying that they don't have any hope of salvation. He's saying that God has, has used them and cut them off in the rebellion in order to bring about, shape them into this ignoble vessel in order to bring about his promise of redemption for the world, which is answering to verse, uh, verse six, as we already mentioned. Again, I go in a lot more detail in this line by line, verse by verse, in The Potter's Promise, as well as in many other videos. I'm, I'm giving a short overview here for those who are tuning in for the very first time. Don't like, oh my gosh, you know, he's just flying through this and we don't know what he's talking about. Listen, any new perspective that you're not familiar with is going to sound confusing the first time you hear it. Slow down, take some time and study. Be a good Berean and learn the best of the best scholars from the other perspective before you make a judgment. Okay? That's all I'm asking you to do. Be patient. Okay? Verse 21. Or does not the potter have the right over the clay to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and from some for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath? How does that fit Calvinism, folks? Why would you endure with much patience reprobates who are destined for destruction from the time they're born, arbitrarily or unilaterally, whatever verb you want to use there, or whatever adjective you want to use there? Okay? What, what are you enduring with patience? This patience is reflected over and over and over again through the Gospels. He, he weeps over Israel. I've held out my hands to you all day long, long to gather you. That's in the very next chapter, chapter 10, verse 21. He longs for their salvation. What's that about? Why would he be patient, longing for and holding out his hands to people he's reprobated from eternity past for reasons that they have no control over? It's not what it's about, folks. He has endured with much patience these Pharisees, these Israelites who have continually rejected and failed to listen to the prophets. They have failed to listen to the words of God, and he has endured with them with much patience, and they have prepared themselves even for destruction. In other words, in that, that's the passive tense. That's not for.

Me, by the way, John MacArthur even says that, okay? So even some Calvinists recognize this is in the passive tense, meaning they have prepared themselves for destruction by their act of rejection. Yes, they're prepared for destruction, but for a good reason. God did it. God prepared them for destruction because of what they did. Just like in verse, chapter 11, verse 23, he cut them off for their unbelief. In other words, he's not cutting them off arbitrarily, or cutting them off unilaterally, or cutting them off before they're ever born. No, he's cutting them off, preparing them for destruction because of their rebellion, as an act of judgment against their rebellion. So despite his patience with them, they are prepared now for destruction because of what they've done, not because of just that's the way they were born. God predestined to be that way. It's not what the context says.

And he did so to make known the riches of his glory upon the vessels of mercy. What vessels of mercy? The faithful, whether Jew or Gentile, male or female, slave or free, those who have faith in Christ, those who believe. As the conclusion of this chapter goes on to say, those who have faith, not those who are of the seed of Abraham, but those who have faith are the vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory. Now, when people read "prepared beforehand for glory" from the predestination side, they say, "Oh, well, that means he has, um, caused them to believe." It's not what it says. It says that he has made known the riches of his glory upon these vessels that have been prepared beforehand. Well, to prepare somebody beforehand, that's sanctification. I'm being prepared beforehand for glory, okay? Right now, right now, before glory, you are now being prepared for it. Okay? It doesn't mean God has predestined you to be a believer in the first place. Nothing in this verse even comes close to saying that.

Again, I'm getting ahead of myself a little bit because he's going to go back on to these verses and, uh, and talking about them a little bit more in depth. And so, uh, we'll, we'll have to, uh, go back to it, um, here in a minute. But let's, let's move on. What the predestination came to, and I was like, like, mind blown at his view on this because, like, he said, we don't choose God. We can't make that choice, like, follow Christ or anything like this. We cannot. And that, like, this is like a sickening feeling in the heart because if we can't choose it, then we don't have the free will to do it. And those that are cast into hell, it's not because they got the opportunity. They weren't, they weren't confronted with it and they denied it. Because that's comforting. Like, these people denied God, then they decided to go to hell. Like, that, that makes, like, sense.

But yes, it makes sense. They refuse to love the truth so as to be saved. Paul's words. Okay, you're exactly right, Dr. Bones. Everything your conscience is telling you, what your, what your common sense is telling you, yes, that makes sense. They are rejecting a God who loved and provided for them. They are blameworthy. That makes sense. That makes sense, folks. And yes, sense-making does make a difference. A lot of people, "Oh, it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense if what's what the Bible says." No. If there are two competing, um, interpretations laid out in front of you, and one just doesn't make sense and flies against everything you know about what justice and mercy and goodness and grace looks like, and the other one makes sense and and and fits the rest of the scriptures and doesn't cause a controversy that's been the biggest controversy since it was introduced in the fifth century, then maybe, just maybe, you should consider it a little bit more in depth. Listen to both sides before you come to a conclusion.

But somebody that never got the opportunity, just being like, "Buddy, like that." I think it's helpful to remember, not everyone's going to get an opportunity to hear the gospel. That's false. Read Romans 10. "Have they not heard?" Yes, my voice has gone out to all the ends of the earth. That, that's the very objection that Paul raises with regard to the nation of Israel. "Have they not all heard?" Yes, they've all heard. That, that's the, that's Romans 1, folks. They are all without excuse. Why? Why are they without excuse? Because they have heard and they have understood through their conscience and through general revelation. They know. The Calvinist interprets that to mean that everyone is without excuse, meaning everyone's born in this totally depraved condition and unable to believe the gospel, and thus giving back the very excuse that Paul is taking away here.

There, Paul is contrasting from verse 17, the the righteous live by faith, with those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness. That's the contrast. The righteous live by faith. Does that mean people with faith are perfectly righteous and never do anything wrong? No, they're credited with the righteousness of Christ by grace. The righteous live by faith versus those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, who deny the existence of God, who don't trust him, who ignore their conscience, who ignore the revelation of God, whether it's special or general or whatever kind of revelation you want to call it. They could have done otherwise, and they should have done otherwise. If you trade the truth of God in for lies, that's your fault. You don't have to do it. And not everyone does, by the way.

Antidote. You can talk about many different examples throughout history of people who did not trade the truth in for lies, who believed the light and revelation they were given. Even John MacArthur's sermon we played from 1981, I believe it was, where he had someone in his congregation, um, who only had the general light of revelation in his conscience, who did not deny it, and God brought him more light, more revelation, was saved. We played that, uh, sermon here on, on this broadcast for, as an example of the fact that, that not everyone rejects the general light of revelation. Um, and, and that doesn't save them, by the way, because if it did, then they wouldn't need the cross. Christ saves them. And God graciously saves those who believe and trust in the light and revelation they've been given.

So to say that there's some people who just have not had the light, they just have not had sufficient revelation, that's false. They may not know of Jesus of Nazareth in specific. Job didn't know of Jesus of Nazareth in specific. Enoch didn't know of Jesus of Nazareth in specific. Rahab didn't know of Jesus of Nazareth in specific. A baby who dies in the womb doesn't know of Jesus of Nazareth in specific. But most of Christians believe all of those people were in heaven. How is that possible? Because people aren't saved by the knowledge of every single jot and tittle and doctrine. People are saved by grace through faith. God knows the heart, and he knows the intentions of the heart. He tests those intentions. He knows whether someone is humbling themselves and trusting in Him, or whether someone is striving to make it on their own without the help of God. God knows their heart, and God shows mercy on whom he will show mercy.

And it doesn't matter whether it's, uh, it's a, somebody who's from the tribe of Benjamin, someone who's tribe of of Isaac, someone who's tribe of Abraham, or someone who is a male, or someone who has, uh, been circumcised or not circumcised or, you know, all the laws. That's not what matters. Paul's saying, what matters is, do you put your trust in Him? Do you follow Him? If you believe in Him, you will be saved. And by the way, I don't think Ron would disagree with that for the most part. Now, we may have some nuance differences, as you'll hear a little bit later. But listen, does that person still deserve to go to hell even if they don't get an opportunity to hear the gospel? Do they deserve to go to hell? Even if I mean, yes, they deserve to because of their sin. But remember, on Calvinism, you're asked, if you ask the same question of a Calvinist, does an infant? And this is one of the reasons the infant damnation question and all that goes along with that is so vital. Because if you believe people are born guilty for what Adam did and unable to respond positively to the light of revelation, then you have to answer the question with regard to unborn babies and infants that die. Do they deserve to go to hell? Even MacArthur and others have argued that babies go to heaven because they're innocent. They have not committed a moral sin. They have not intentionally or with malice, in other words, cognizantly denied or rejected revelation or the truth of God because they haven't reached an age of accountability. And by the way, yes, there's an article and videos on the age of accountability, very well established throughout the scriptures in my estimation. You can go and read those for yourselves. But that's why that question is so vital. Because asking that question is, does a baby that dies in infancy deserve hell? Why would you assume that a baby that dies in infancy has never done anything wrong, or a baby that's aborted deserves hell? Because Calvinists have convinced many people from their misinterpretation from Augustine of Romans chapter 5, that people inherit the sin and the guilt of Adam, and therefore are born under condemnation, under the guilt of Adam, and with an inability to accept the gospel unless they're picked and irresistibly graced. That is not biblically established, as far as I can tell. And we have again, many videos establishing why we don't believe that's true. We even talk about, um, Millard Erickson and, uh, Zwingli, and several others who've rejected some of the historically reformed or Calvinistic understanding of Romans chapter 5 and have have talked about various ways in which that's been interpreted not to mean that people are inherently inherent this guilt, inherently inheriting the guilt and, and this concept of inability from birth to choose to do otherwise because of the nature you're born in. But there we go. Do they deserve to? Because in ability? Do all the Aztecs that before the Spanish came over, they were like sacrificing? It's such a heavy burden on the heart to think about, like, all these people that there could have been plenty of good people that would have loved to accept Christ. You don't think they could have loved to accept Christ?

Not a single good person exists. Romans 3, verse 10 says this, "As it is written, none is righteous, no not one. No one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside together." Okay, so why does it, in the very next passage, if you're interpreting the way you are, brother, why does it say in the very next passage, "Abraham was a righteous man"? Why does it say, "Enoch was a righteous man"? Why does it say, "Job was a righteous man"? Notice the context. Paul is quoting from, I believe it's Psalm 14, and he's talking about no one is righteous under the law. No one fulfills the demands of the law to perfection. No one's perfect, no not one. So what's your only hope? Trust in the perfect one. There's a righteousness now being revealed under heaven that's from Christ. So the way of the law, no one's righteous. So what's your only hope? Do what Abraham did. Believe in God, and he will graciously credit you with the righteousness of Christ. Not because he has to, but because he wants to. He's a gracious God. He didn't owe it to anybody. Nobody deserves it. All are condemned because they have all fallen short. They've all failed to meet perfection of the law. No one is righteous in accordance with the law. Therefore, trust in the righteous one. That's the message of Paul.

What the Calvinist hears is this, "No one is righteous, no not one." And believing in Jesus, that would be a righteous thing, and so nobody can do that. That's a non sequitur. It does not follow. It's not what Paul teaches. But that's the mentality they're they're bringing to this verse. "No one's righteous, no not one." "Oh, oh, well, okay, that means no one believes in Jesus because believing Jesus would be a righteous thing." So it must mean that no one believes in Jesus. No one can believe in Jesus. That's what it must mean. No, no one is righteous in accordance with the law. Therefore, your only hope is to trust in God, and by the imputation of the righteousness of Christ, by grace through faith, you too can be, uh, deemed or credited just like Abraham was as righteous. That's not earning your salvation. Abraham didn't earn anything by believing. God graciously credited to his account as righteousness. And that's exactly the message that Paul concludes. So that's, I think, the message we should conclude as well. They become worthless. No one does good, not even one. It's not like these people who haven't heard, they're just good people out there who just, just need the gospel, um, because they're so good and they'll just accept it without God's help. No, they're wicked rebels like you and I have been.

So we are sinners by choice. Yes. By nature. By Adam and Eve, sure. He chose to sin. But also in our own life, we choose to sin. Okay? So if you choose to do something based upon your nature that is corrupt from birth and you can't control it, that's a lot like a, a lion choosing to eat meat versus grass, okay? Or a cow choosing to eat grass instead of meat. It's just by nature the choice they're going to make. That's not a morally accountable choice, okay? That's an animal instinctive reaction. It's a reflex based upon the given stimuli and the way that you were created. This is what Calvinists, in my estimation, have reduced our moral choices to, that you're by nature a, a person who can only sin and not even accept the gracious appeals of the gospel to confess your sins so as to be saved. That's not, in my estimation, that's just not founded in the pages of scripture. And they've reduced this concept and idea of moral accountability to animal instinct, that we're just doing by nature these things because it's instinctively how we were ultimately made by our creator in, in, as a result of the fall, we really don't have any control over. I just don't believe that's a, that's a biblical concept. We're all sinners by choice. Yes. But choice means you could have done otherwise. And now some people push back against that. Are you trying to say that there are some people who will never sin? No, no. Proof that nobody is perfect is not proof that people can't trust in the perfect one, though. This is the, this is the whole concept. Everybody's going to mess up. Everybody's going to fail. That doesn't mean that every time somebody fails, they couldn't have done otherwise, though. Um, they, they could have resisted that temptation. They could have gone the right way. They could have made the right choice, which is why they're responsible for the choices they make. It's because they could have done otherwise. That's the basis of their responsibility.

In fact, we voluntarily choose. To God does not force us to sin in any way. God is not, doesn't even tempt us for sin. We just choose to. And so therefore, even if, okay, but go behind the scenes of that. Why do we choose to? According to Calvinism, compatibilism says you will always choose according to your greatest desire, and your greatest desire is in accordance with your nature, which is ultimately us determined by God. God decreed for your nature to be such from birth that it would always, always choose sin and reject the gospel unless he rebirth you, regeneration, and causes you, your desires to change so that you'll accept Him and believe in Him. That's basically what he's saying behind the scenes of what he just now said. He'll call all that free choice and voluntary and all those kinds of things. But behind the scenes, that's what he means by that. What he means by that is that you were decreed from birth to only be able to choose this way unless God picked you to choose this way. And and everybody, I think, can see that's just not, that's not real understanding of choice by any stretch of the imagination.

Zero people had an opportunity to hear the gospel. Would it be unjust for us to go to hell? Be just. It would be just. It would be perfectly just. We, it would be perfectly just under provisionism's understanding of those texts that you just mentioned and the way in which you made those statements. It arguably would be unjust based upon what Calvinists have taught with regard to inability and the concept of what compatibilists that God ultimately controls. So I would question whether that would be considered true justice. Um, I think this demonstrably unjust. In fact, we do not deserve salvation. And so if God wants to offer salvation, sorry, was it? If God wants to offer salvation, I can ask it again. Sorry. Continue with what you're saying. Yeah. So what I'm saying is, if God only saved one person, wow, God's being amazing. Just saving one person, giving one opportunity to have an opportunity being saved. That's so amazing. But he does more than that. He allows many to hear. Does he? And so how much more would it be that if he allows all to hear? See, see what I'm saying? If you're going to measure it by one, oh, one, one would be great. Many would be even better. So what would be better than that? All everybody. For God so loved the world. All everybody. That would even be greater. So you're diminishing the glory of God by saying it's only many. It's just only, uh, many, I guess 10%. It's about how the number of Christians in the population, um, of people who become Christians. I, you know, listen, when, when we're talking about these things, Calvinists have have convinced you to think God would be just maximally glorious and just this glorious if he just saved one person. How much more so for his demonstration of glory to say that he has provided a way and salvation for every single person. And so that anyone who perishes perishes because they refuse to love the truth so as to be saved. They could have. That's what that's why hell and rejection of God is so devastating. They could have done otherwise. They had a provision. They had a God who loves them. That's why rejection of God and his truth is so devastating. And Calvinism completely undermines that, in my estimation.

Does he allow everyone to hear? No. Millions don't. And in fact, millions hear but don't even have it explained very well. They hear like a convoluted gospel. It sounds like salvation by works. And are they still accountable for their sin? Yeah, because they still sinned. So praise God that he's allowed you, me, and others who are tuning in, that they've been able to hear and believe. So just give glory to God and know that ultimately, our God is in the heavens. He does whatever he pleases. The verse I brought up earlier on Psalm 115:3. And so all those Psalm 115:3, we've mentioned it before, the great definition of sovereignty. God sits in the heavens and does as he pleases. But as I say many times, when Calvinists use proof text, keep reading. Because later in that same chapter, he goes on to say, "The heavens belong to the Father, but the earth he has given over to man." What's that suggest? God, in his sovereignty, has chosen not which choices you'll make, but that you'll be free to make choices. He's given you dominion, rule over this earth. That there are principalities and rulers who still rule, yes. They will one day be put under his foot. They will one day be destroyed, yes. But God has given this world over to man, meaning there is some level of autonomy, of choice, of freedom that we are responsible for, which is our theodicy. The reason for the evil and suffering and disease and all the things that are here in this fallen world is because God has given this world over to his creation. And he is, and I'm not talking like deism, like he's just totally absent. He's an absentee God. He's gone off to, you know, rule some other worlds or something like that. He's going to come back and see what's going on. No, it's not what I'm talking about. But he has given us dominion over this earth. He has allowed us to rule and to do, uh, wreak our havoc on this world with the choices that we make. That is our theodicy. The reason evil exists is because God has given this world over to man. He's given us freedom of the will to make our decisions and to go out from underneath his provisions and, uh, to choose to eat of the tree, to choose to take our inheritance and squander it. He's allowed us to do that so that we can experience what it, what a world feels like. This is one of the reasons we pray, "God, let your will be done here on Earth as it is in heaven." That, that verse, that prayer assumes there's a difference between what's happening on Earth and in heaven. The heavenlies belong to the Lord, but the Earth he has given over to man. It's why we pray, "Lord, let your will be done here on Earth as it is in heaven." Not, "Lord, we know already, because the Calvinist told us, that your will is always perfectly done here on Earth just like it is in heaven." Of course not. We're praying for God's will to be done. We're praying that we can follow God's will. We're praying that we're doing what God wants us to do here on Earth. But sometimes we don't, and sometimes other people make mistakes, and they do the wrong thing, and they go the wrong direction, which is why we have the havoc and the evil and the suffering that we have in this world. That's why sovereignty, on our view, I think, makes so much more sense than the theistic deterministic concept of sovereignty, which is basically every thought, action, and deed is governed, i.e., decreed, i.e., brought to pass by the sovereign decree. And again, that's why I think that concept just doesn't hold water. It's not a tenable way of living life.

God wants to be saved. They will be. Not one will be lost. And whether you're a vessel of honor or a vessel for dishonor, you will be glorifying God. Your very existence will glorify God because either you'll be a demonstration of his mercy or a demonstration of his justice. Now, again, there's some truth in that from our perspective. And in our perspective as a provisionist, there are, there is truth in the fact that God's demonstration of his justice and his mercy is going to be on those who believe versus those who refuse the truth so as to be saved. But that is such a greater demonstration of those things when the person is responsible for their choices versus God being the one responsible for their choices. Because you're only demonstrating, in the Calvinistic perspective, God punishing people for something that they have no control over and ultimately that he created them for. And it undermines, in my estimation, the true dichotomy of those being displayed, justice over in their judgment versus those being displayed grace, because there's actual responsibility with regard to, uh, individual. "Well done, my good and faithful servant, enter into the rest that I've prepared in advance for you." Makes sense on provisionism. Doesn't make sense on Calvinism. It just doesn't.

So, I mean, do we choose? Do we choose God? Like, I don't know your denomination, but "because He chose us, so we choose God. If God didn't choose us, we would never want us to choose Him." Even 1 John, "For God so loved the world." That's His choice of us. God has created the world and everything in it. "God loves the Lord is gracious and merciful, slow to anger and great in loving kindness. The Lord is good to all, and His mercies are over all His works." Psalm 145:9. That is an inspired text. God is love. Yes. God first loved us. If, and if He didn't first love us, we couldn't love Him, and we wouldn't love Him. But the suggestion that this irresistible love of God for certain people and His hatred, I.E., His rejection of the rest, is simply not a biblical concept. And that's exactly what you're about to hear him conclude based upon some, I think, faulty proof texting, as you'll hear. 4:10 is a good verse. It says, "And this is love, not that we have loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins, not for our sins only, but for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2. Okay, there. Read, read the whole context of everything in that chapter if you're going to read from 1 John, read it all. So it's not a propitiation for our sins only, but for the sins of the whole world. And so, in other words, God loves us, yes, the world, all of us. And because of that, we have an opportunity to love Him and have the relationship with Him. What Kevin, excuse me, what Ryan is assuming here is that this is an effectual love for the elect, and that's what's causing us to effectually love Him back. Verse never says that. There's nothing that's even remotely suggesting that. In fact, like I already mentioned, 1 John 2:2 seems to scream in the face of such conclusions, as will some other texts that we're about to listen to. Wrath-absorbing sacrifice. So by nature, we don't want God. By nature, we love sin. We'd be happy to go down that. What does "by nature" mean? Okay. He says, "By nature, we don't want God." By decree, we don't want God. Would that be accurate? Also, Calvinists, by decree, by nature, meaning by the way you were born, that's what nature is. You don't want God. And words, you have no control over. By nature, lions eat meat. By nature, cows eat grass. So let's punish them accordingly. That makes no sense. And we all know it. By nature, they can't breathe underwater. So let's punish people who can't breathe underwater. What? That doesn't make any sense. Okay, when you say, "What do you mean by nature?" To talk about by nature does not necessarily mean effectuality. You can say somebody's inclined towards sin, inclined towards selfishness, inclined towards something, that does not mean they can't confess that fact humbly and trust in the one who's offering them a lifeline, who's offering them grace, who's offering them salvation, the appeal of the gospel, which is sent to every person, man, woman, boy, and girl, calling them to repentance and faith. There's nothing about the concept and idea that we are enemies that suggests that we can't confess the fact that we're enemies, that we're enslaved to sin, that we can't confess the fact that we're enslaved to sin. This concept and idea that being a slave to sin and an enemy of God automatically means therefore you can't confess that fact in light of the gospel because of the nature you were born in is simply a nonsensical argument that the Calvinist imposes upon the text. It is not a biblical concept.

Cause for the rest of our life, but God in His sovereignty softens our stubborn hard hearts and therefore makes us willing to believe. Okay, so God in His sovereignty softens our stubborn hearts. Now, is there anything wrong with me saying something like that? If I were to give my testimony and say, "Man, God in His sovereignty, He worked on my life, and He softened my heart, and He brought me to salvation." Is there anything wrong with that? No. But notice, I'm not assuming effectuality and I'm not assuming particularity. In other words, I'm not saying He chose me individually as opposed to Joe Blow next door and caused me to do it. Be irresistible means because I don't have to insist. And I have no reason to believe that a gift has to be given irresistibly in order for the giver to get full credit for giving it. Okay? If I say, "My mom, who I love dearly, if it was not for her investing in my life and giving herself to me and helping me and doing all of these things, I owe everything I have to my mother." Absolutely. Just love my mother. I wouldn't be where I am if it wasn't for my mom. And just is that, is there any, nobody would assume that. I mean, well, my mom must effectually cause me to make the choices I've made to be where I am today. Nobody would assume that, right? What you would, what would you be assuming? Your mother was a huge influence in your life, who did the things that were necessary for you to get to where you, you are, and she helped you and guided you along the way, and you're giving her credit for all the gifts and all the things that she gave you, right? Exactly. That's intuitive. Nobody would assume effectuality in all that my, my mother did for me by thanking her and giving her glory for all those things. The Calvinist is imposing that on God and saying the only way God really gets a credit is if he picked you as opposed to somebody else and he effectually causes all those things. He just gave God credit for. Again, not biblical. Don't assume that you're chosen apart from somebody else, like he picked you like duck, duck, duck, damned the goose. We're talking about picked you, picked you, but not you, you, but you. Yeah, you. No, it's not what you're talking about. Okay. In election, it is about God choosing the nation of Israel to bring a blessing to all the other nations of the world, okay? Not to curse all the other nations of the world. He's not picking Israel to the neglect of everybody else. He's not picking Paul to the neglect of everybody else. He's picking the nation of Israel and the individual Paul to be a blessing to all the nations of the earth, just like he promised in Genesis 12:3, that through your seed, all the families of the earth will be blessed. In other words, God's election is about bringing blessing to all. He elects some in order to bring a blessing to all. That's the way election works in scripture. So if you're still thinking about election about God picking me over somebody else and therefore making me believe, you've got a false view of election. So not a biblical view of election. God chooses to save those who put their trust in Him, who humble themselves, and He chooses you and saves you so that you can be a blessing to the rest of the world, so that you can be the hands and feet of Christ from that day forward. You've been chosen, yes, by God to be a blessing to the nations. He's not chosen you to the neglect of other people around you, sometimes your loved ones, your own children, your own parents, your, your own siblings. He hasn't chosen you and then damned them to hell for reasons beyond their control for no apparent reason. That just is not a biblical concept.

So from our perspective, yes, we need to believe in Christ. We need to make the choice to believe in Christ to be saved. So yes, we make choices. At least from our perspective. But just know that behind the scenes, it's God who is working on our hearts, softening our hearts, drawing us in. That's true on our side too. Yes, it's God working on our hearts. He's softening our hearts. He's working on us through the gospel, through the bride of Christ, through circumstances of life, through our conscience, uh, through creation, all of those means. He works in all of those means. Not a single one of them the Bible ever describes them as being irresistible for certain people. Remove irresistibility for particular people, chosen people, special people, elite, the elite picked ones. Remove those two concepts from everything he just said, and what he said is spot on. You can't assume particularity. It's hard for me to say that word, particularity. Particular people chosen to be effectually caused to do this. If you just remove those two things, everything he's saying right there is really actually good advice. It's like a clock. You see two hands on a clock, hands moving around the face of it. Very simple thing, very simple advice. But you take the cover off the clock, and you now see all these cogs and things going on behind the scenes. That's like what it is from the, from our perspective. We have to just hear the gospel, choose to believe it, we're saved. God's perspective, you see Him pulling on the heartstrings, Him softening our heart, Him doing all these different things in our life so that we would make that free choice to believe. And that's, that's where it's not mechanical, um, on our side. He's using a clock, obviously, just as an analogy. But that analogy, I think, is apt in the Calvinistic system because it's, um, mechanical. It, it's almost like he's just causing the cogs. Listen, what we're emphasizing is something more relational, not cause-effect, but influence-response. Let me say that again. Calvinism is cause-effect. The clock moves because of the gear shifting, okay? And and it's just cause-effect, cause-effect, because that's a mechanical, non-feeling, non, uh, it's, it's machine, it's robotic puppetry, right? It's mechanical. That's cause-effect. Influence-response is relational, with sentient beings that have feelings and emotion and real choice. So God influences me, softens my heart, I have a responsibility to what He's done in softening my heart. Because I think all of us, especially in church work, those of you who do church work or in evangelism on a regular basis, I know you can attest to this, where you see God working on someone's heart and their, their heart is getting softened and they're crying. Um, we call it white-knuckling it. Baptist preachers, we call white-knuckling it. Why? Because all of them have a pew in front of it, and they grab that pew and their knuckles turn white. They're holding it so hard. I can, I can name some individuals I still remember to this day who white-knuckled it out the door, and they never walked an aisle, and they never gave their life to Christ. But I know they were under the conviction of the Holy Spirit. I know their heart had been softened. They had tears coming down their eyes. Their heart had been softened. But they are still responsible. Why? Because God's not working irresistibly. He's influencing for a response, a real response, because that's what's needed for real relationship. We're not just cogs in a machine. We are sentient, real beings with real emotions and feelings, and we are responding to the influence of God. We are not just instinctively impulsively doing what He causes us to do, because that wouldn't be relationship worth having. I encourage you, read C.S. Lewis on this. We've played it before, and we've seen it before. The Problem of Pain. He gets into this as well as another book of his, I can't remember off the top of the head the name of it. Both of those are really good. And to get into this, that a relationship worth having requires for risk. Requires it's, it's the, the analogy I've given to kids all the time. If I've got a, if I've got a puppy, a real puppy, which, by the way, I've got one right over here, a real puppy, and I hold, I should have, I should have brought him up for this. This analogy would have been great to introduce you to Bubba, my puppy. But if I have a real puppy wiggling in my hands right here, and then a, a stuffed animal that looks exactly like him, and I go up to any child and I say, "Which one do you really want to have?" You all know exactly which one he's going to pick. And thank you for the super chats. We'll get to there. Aaron, thank you for that. We'll get back to those. Um, you all know what's going to pick. But you say, "Wait, wait, wait. Before you make your choice, before you do it, just remember this. This one over here, it will go right where you want it to go. It won't chew up your stuff. It won't ever poop or pee all over everything like this one does. It won't mess up anything. It'll do exactly what you want it to do." Are you sure you want this little wiggly thing that's going to chew up stuff and mess up stuff and cause all kind? Are you sure you really want that? Every kid, you know, is going to say, "Yes, that's the one I really want." Why? Because relationships worth the, it's worth the mess. Do you think it's really different with God? We're made in His image. Do you think God's created us much differently? We want the real child, not the doll. Why? Because we're not just cogs in a machine, like a clock handle turning. Influence-response, not just cause-effect. That's the difference between the two worldviews that you're seeing in front of you. And I want you to understand that.

So it is through choice, but not everybody will be given the choice. Correct. Not everyone's going to hear the information. Because we all have, we have already made the choice to say no to God. So he doesn't have to give us another chance. We've all made the choice to say no to God. On Calvinism, is that true? Or we born by nature hating God and not wanting to have anything to do with Him? Like you said earlier, by saying that we have a choice to say no to God assumes it seems at least to imply that we could have chosen to say yes to God. That's what a choice is. It's, it's, uh, it's deliberating between two available options. Is there two available options for the reprobate, the non-elect, on Calvinism? Really? Jesus didn't die for them, according to the five-point Cal. So is there really an option there? The, the word choice itself implies, if not explicitly connotes, the concept of two available options. On Calvinism, the reprobate has one available option: reprobation, rejecting God. There is no choice, not according to the definition of choice. That's why Calvinists have to redefine choice to mean choosing according to what God has determined you to desire, i.e., the nature you are born with that you can't control. Um, I, I said I'm a, not a Bible scholar, but, um, anybody that hears this and believes, um, has the opportunity to be saved. I, I know I'm misquoting this, but it pops into my mind. It sounds like anybody has the opportunity to hear the gospel and then does believe in it. Um, but then also you have, okay, he goes on kind of, and he, again, this young man, God bless him, he's a new Christian, he's trying to, he's kind of trying to grapple with this, and he knows he's got some verses in the back of his mind of God's love for everybody, and he's not, you know, able to pull those up immediately to defend where he's coming from. But I feel for him on that. Um, but I wanted to advance here because they get back into this discussion at around the 2:31 mark. So I'm going to pick up right there, and we're going to pick up on this. We may go back and listen to some of the things he talks about here, but I wanted to get in this because he gets into predestination a little bit further here, and I wanted us to to go through it. Now, that alone. Now he's getting real emotional here, and he's crying. He's really struggling. My heart just goes out to this brother. If anybody knows a contact for him, Dr. Bones, here, send it to me. I'd love to have him on, and maybe we can go through this from our perspective and, uh, and see, uh, if it helps him because, again, I skipped a good section there. We may go back and pick up on some of it, but I wanted to get this portion about predestination in first. Did you have any other questions you want to ask? Um, do you know anybody? The predestination thing still gets to me. And do you know of anybody that I should go to to learn more about this or to have conversation with? Because it's still like, I've got this whole pre-is in time, and so to do it before time, blits gone, two times, like the whole thing is confusing to me. It really just doesn't make sense in, in like the word. What I would recommend, I don't think it's a, I wouldn't recommend listening to a necessary teacher on it. Just go into the Bible yourself on it. The Bible couldn't be any clearer. I think the Bible's the best explainer. It gives the best explanation on the topic. So just go read. Go read Romans 9. Good chapter. Go Ephesians 1. And realize it's, I would, I would read the whole book of Romans in context, and I would read the whole book of Ephesians in context. When you just pluck a, a passage out of the context with those presuppositions already in your mind, I can see how someone, especially, I remember as a Calvinist, I would often tell people, "Just go read Romans 9. It's obvious." I mean, because I just thought it's obvious. In my Calvinistic mind, I just thought anybody who reads Romans 9 has to walk away a Calvinist because I had not challenged my presuppositions. I had not challenged, um, my perspective. And, and I'm asking you, as being good Bereans, check yourself. Help the listeners to understand there have been scholars from both sides of this perspective for generations upon generations. And if you're not familiar with what the other scholars who read the exact same chapter you read, by the way, Ryan, and came to a different conclusion, then are you really, are you really qualified to tell people, "Just, hey, go read it. It's obvious." Yeah, it, it, it's obvious if you're already taught Calvinistic presuppositions that it's teaching Calvinism in your mind. It is. But is it really that obvious when you understand the context of what Paul is addressing? I think not.

"Just for God to show mercy to those whom He wants to show mercy." If you have $10 and you want to give that $10 to a friend across the street, but you don't give that same $10 to a neighbor that's down the road from you, can that neighbor who you didn't give the money to, can he complain that you didn't give him $10? Like, can he rightly complain? No. But if God's will is purely good, and He loves all His creation, would it not be in His will that He'd want all of us to be saved? Like, this is like the stopping block for me. That, like, I know that it says, like you said, "Through through His wrath, He He'll be not justified. Lord, show His glory, show His glory through His wrath." But how does it not fall out of, like, goodness? If, if He loves all of us and loves even the most wretched of us, if we are not chosen by Him, then does He not, does He love them less than us that we're chosen? Yes. Then He doesn't love all His. It doesn't make sense. The Bible doesn't need to. "I love my wife differently than I love other women." Okay? So the Bible doesn't need to make sense. That was his answer to that. Doesn't make sense. This just, God loves. God loves all people, and it doesn't need to make sense. And then he, and then he gives an analogy. Again, people give me analogies, and he just used an analogy about $10, which I could pick apart pretty quickly. He's about to use another analogy. "Love my wife more than other women." Well, does that mean you hate other women and want them to go to hell? Oh, no. Does that mean other women? No other women had the potential of becoming your spouse or to be loved the way in that way. Of course not. And so, in other words, these aren't one-to-one good ratios of of understanding the differences between the sociological concepts of God's love and provision for people when it comes to salvation. Um, we even as provisionists would understand that God has a special love for those who are in Christ because they're in Christ. They have a relationship with God, and that love is going to be, uh, be growing and be sanctified, be sanctification and changing of that relationship that you have with that person. But that doesn't mean He doesn't have a love for people who are outside of Christ and a desire for them to to come to Christ. God has a desire for any to perish, but all to come to repentance. "Repent and live," saith the Lord. Ezekiel 18. Um, he, he's verse after verse after verse of God longing and wanting to gather His children, as like chickens under His wings. It says, "But they are unwilling." All of these things scream of God's love for people who are outside of His, of relationship with Him. Um, and, and that's what Ryan doesn't seem to be acknowledging here, that God has, yes, a genuine love and desire for people who are outside of relationship with Him to be in relationship with Him, thus to come under His provision of love and grace. If I didn't, it'd be wrong. But you're not, you're not God, though.

I understand, but God. God doesn't have to love everyone the same way. The Bible never actually says He loves everyone the same way. That's an idea that many people have, but it's not a Biblical idea. God is loving in that He sends rain and sunshine on the just and the unjust. We see that in the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus talked about that.

But we do see God having different loves for different people, and that's perfectly right. You can love your neighbor on the left side of your house more than you love the neighbor on the right side of your house. Doesn't mean you hate the guy on the other side, but you can love one exactly. He just undermined his entire perspective right there. Doesn't mean you hate the guy on the side. I have a relationship with the guy on the right side of my house. There's a relationship where that's developed. That's a different kind of love. That doesn't mean I don't want to have a relationship with the guy on this side of the house. I don't hate him. I want to have a relationship with him. I want to have a love relationship with him, just like I have with the guy on this side of the house. That's the God we're talking about.

But the God of Calvinism is, "No, I like the guy on this side of my house. I love the guy in this house. This guy over here, he can go to hell." And I'm not trying to be mean saying that. That's just that that's just literal. He can go to hell. That that that's the God of Calvinism. That's what Calvinism is teaching. God's like, "This guy in the of the this side of the house, I love him. I want to have a relationship with him. This guy on the other side of the house, he can go to hell." That's not God, folks. That's not what God teaches. Every single neighbor, stop and help on the other side of the road. On the, you don't pass by them on the other side of the road. You stop and help. Even, yes, your worst enemy, which is the story of the Good Samaritan. God's not just passing them by and not wanting them. That's what screams to me to be antithetical to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and what He taught us to do with regard to our enemies. One guy more than the other. You can love your family more than you love other people's families, right?

Does it not say in the Bible He loves all His creation? Or not the same way? He has a general love in that He sends rain and sunshine on everyone. But it never said that's not love, brother. Sending rain and sunshine is not love. How do I know? Because the Bible defines love. 1 Corinthians 13. If I give everything I have to the poor, but have not love, I have nothing. It is worth nothing, right? In other words, I can give all the rain and sunshine to them. I can benevolently give them all kinds of things. That is not necessarily love. Okay, that's Paul under inspiration. But what is love? Love is kind. It's patient. Not self-seeking. That's love. God is love. That means He's kind. He's patient with people. He loves them. So to say that God loves somebody says that He's kind with them. He's patient with them. He's longing for them. He's not self-seeking or self-serving when it comes to them. I can't think, think of how that would apply to any of the reprobate on the Calvinistic system. That is not love according to the definition that God, under inspiration, gives to us through the Apostle Paul. Is that He has an equal love towards everyone? That's an unbiblical tradition that a lot of people hold to because they have an image of God that they've fashioned in their own image. I want God to be like this. If He's not like this, I don't like Him. We've got to get rid of any of those sort of things we have and just line our view of God with what scripture says.

It's like the everlasting love thing is where I kind of get that. It's like if it's everlasting, it's it's never ending. Um, there's a lot of modern songs, um, that go over it. I'm going to try to find more Christian music to replace my humanistic music. Um, and it says things like, "His never-ending, uh, overwhelming, uh, unending love," or however the song goes. It's like it sounds, sounds like it states in scripture for believers. Yeah, for believers, right? Steadfast love endureth forever. The Psalmist says. Psalms say quite a lot. But it also says things like this in the book of Psalms. Psalm 55. The wicked shall not stand before Your eyes. You hate all evildoers. God hates evildoers, right? Um, it speaks about how the Lord knows. Um, this one here in the book of Psalms, in, um, Psalm 2:4. It says, "He who sits in the heavens laughs. The Lord holds them in derision." It's talking about the wicked who are trying to rebel against Him. He laughs at them. He's holding them in derision. Psalm 37:13. "The Lord laughs at the wicked, for He sees that His day is coming." Okay. All right.

Let me show you how a Calvinist is using proof texting. And most proof texting from a Calvinist can be corrected by saying, "You just say, 'Keep reading.'" Okay? "Keep reading." I'll take the last one he uses, and let's pull up Psalm 37. Okay, here we go. Um, reading Psalm 37. Now, notice how he just applied this by saying, "Look, God hates evildoers. God hates the wicked." And he's applying that to say, "God hates reprobates, the non-elect, the people He didn't elect. He hates those people. So He loves some people, the elect ones, and He hates other people." Now, He loves them in a different way. Gives them rain and sunshine, which we've already shown that's not real love according to the definition Paul gives us under inspiration. Um, but notice how he's applying these proof texts to say, "See, God hates reprobates and I.E. evildoers. He hates them. And He loves the elect." Well, just ask a Calvinist, "Did He love you when you were an evildoer? Did He love the elect person when you were an evildoer?" In other words, just, just because someone's an evildoer doesn't mean God doesn't love them in the sense that He wants them to stop their evildoing so as to become under, come under His grace and love and provision. This is one of the reasons you can have a love-hate relationship. That I, I love my child, but I hate what they're doing. I hate where they're going. And justice may even come upon them when they do the wrong thing. That's their doing, their fault, not a lack of love or provision on my part.

Look at Psalm 37. "Do not fret because of evildoers; be not envious toward wrongdoers, for they will wither quickly like the grass and fade like the green herb. Trust in the Lord and do good; dwell in the land and cultivate faithfulness. Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the Lord." What are, what are all these? These are the, it's like warning texts. Don't be an evildoer. Don't, don't go after. Don't, don't envy what they have. It's not going to last for them. Commit your way to the Lord. Trust in Him so that you will be blessed. Is basically what this, these passages are saying over and over again. Okay. He will bring forth your righteousness as the light and your judgment as the noon day. Rest in the Lord and wait patiently for Him. Do not fret because of him who prospers in his way, because of the man who carries out wicked schemes. Cease from anger and forsake wrath. Do not fret; it leads only to evildoing. For evildoers will be cut off. So notice they're being cut off for their evildoing. They're not being cut off arbitrarily before they're born, okay? It's, it's a judgment for their evildoing, not the other way around. And He's warning them, "Don't become evildoers." And if you are an evildoer, change. That's, that's the whole point of the passage. But those who wait for the Lord, they will inherit the land. Yet a little, in a little while, the wicked man will be no more, and you will look carefully for his place, and he will not be there. But the humble will inherit the land and will delight themselves in abundant prosperity. The wicked plots against the righteous and nashes at him with his teeth. The Lord laughs at him, for He sees his day coming." In other words, this is a sense in which God's saying, God knows what His future is. God knows where He's going because of His evildoing. This has nothing to do with God hating reprobates for no apparent reason before they're born, okay? The wicked have dawned the sword and bent their bow to cast down the afflicted and the needy, to slay those who are upright in conduct. Their sword will enter into their own heart, and their bows will be broken. In other words, it's going to backfire on them. Their evildoing will backfire on them. Their evildoer, their evildoing will destroy them. So don't fret about the seeming wealth that they're getting and the prosperity they seem to be having. It, it's going to come back on them, okay? All things will be made right in the end. So don't, don't fret about the prosperity of the evildoer. That's the point of this passage. "Better is the little of the righteous than the abundance of many wicked, for the arms of the wicked will be broken, but the Lord sustains the righteous. The, the Lord knows the days of the blameless, and their inheritance will be forever. They will not be ashamed in the time of evil, and in the days of famine they will have abundance. But the wicked will perish, and the enemies of the Lord will be like the glory of the pastures; they vanish, like smoke, and they vanish away. The wicked, uh, borrows and does not pay back. Borrows but does not pay back, but the righteous is gracious and gives. For those blessed by Him will inherit the land, but those cursed by Him will be cut off. The steps of a man are established by the Lord, and He delights in his way. When he falls, he will not be hurled headlong, because the Lord, the, the Lord, who is one, holds his hand. I have been young and now I am old, yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his descendants begging bread. All day long he is gracious and lends, and his descendants are a blessing."

Listen to verse 27. "Depart from evil and do good, so that you will abide forever." For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His godly ones. What is the point the Psalmist is getting at here? What's He saying? Depart from evil. Live a righteous life. Follow God so that you will abide forever. This is not proving that certain people were destined beforehand to be evildoers and can't do anything about it, okay? And that's exactly the way Ryan is ultimately applying this verse. Look, see, God hates some people. He's rejected some people. He's not showing mercy to some people. He's not going to save some people. Whereas the verse he's reading from is actually saying, "Depart from evil." In other words, confess your evil ways so as to get a new heart, as Ezekiel 18 says. Turn so as to live. Repent and live. "I desire the death of no one," declares the Sovereign Lord. "Repent and live." That's the message of scripture over and over and over again. Depart from evil, you evildoers, who are, yes, being mocked by God and hated, lest the wrath of God is on them because of their evildoing, not arbitrarily, but because of their evildoing. But that doesn't mean He doesn't want them to come away from their evildoing so as to abide forever, just like this verse says. Context kills Calvinism every single time. The next time you hear a Calvinist just quote a verse out of context, just say, "Keep reading, please. Keep reading." Because the context will always demonstrate why Calvinism is not reading the the full scope of the text.

With that in mind, let's move back to what he's talking about here. Right? The Bible speaks about God being a potter with the clay. He can make some vessels for honorable use, some for dishonorable. Now, He doesn't force anyone to sin, okay? So He can use some for honorable use, some for dishonorable use. Does that mean He's arbitrarily picked people before they were ever born and creates them to be honor or dishonor? Or like Jeremiah 18 actually says, the potter sitting at the wheel molding the clay. The clay becomes marred in his hands, not that he marred it. It's not his fault. In other words, the clay becomes marred in his hands, speaking of the nation of Israel. In other words, Israel became marred in his hands because they chose to do the wrong thing. They are not listening. They're not doing what the potter wants them to do. So He had every intention to mold them for an honorable vessel because they're His nation, after all. He's going to use them for honorable purposes, honorable use. But they become marred in His hands. Now, what does the potter do? He decides, "Okay, I was going to use them for a, a, a great noble pot, but now I'm going to use them as a chamber pot instead of eating out of them. I'm going to defecate in them, but I'm still going to use them." That's, that's exactly the imagery here. And so, does the sovereign, the potter, not have the right to shape that lump of Israel into an ignoble vessel? And then he goes on in Jeremiah 18, if you read it, "If you relent of your evil ways, then I will relent of the calamity I'm going to bring upon you, and I will use you for good." Which, by, by, by the way, is exactly what Paul says to Timothy when he says, "In every house there are many vessels, some for honor, some for dishonor. Cleanse yourself," he says to Timothy, "so that you may be used for honor." In other words, the pot has responsibility to cleanse himself. What's that? Repentance. Cleanse yourself from your evil ways. Turn from your evil deeds, and I will use you for a noble purpose. In other words, you have responsibility, even as a clay pot, okay? And so this whole concept and idea that that He just has vessels that He's arbitrarily picked to be some of them reprobates, some of them, uh, saved for salvation, that is not a Biblical concept. That is something being imposed into this text because if we look at how Paul's used it elsewhere and how it's been used by the prophets for which Paul is referencing, then we know full well He's talking about the nation of Israel becoming hardened and callous in the hand of the potter and the sovereign's right to use that clay, that ignoble clay Israel, for whatever purpose He deems necessary to bring about redemption for the nations of the world.

He's kind to all of us and loving to all of us in that He gives us so many blessings we do not deserve. But we, as rebellious people, have chosen to say, "I don't want You, God." And God, therefore, can laugh at us and say, "All right, you don't want Me. I'm going to make you. You're going to be one who's going to be under My wrath for eternity." Now, that makes sense if they could have wanted Him. If somebody chooses to deny, to trade the truth of God in for lies because they actually had truth. You can't trade something you don't have, by the way. So they had the truth. They traded it in for lies, and they choose to love false gods and to choose to follow their own ways. That makes perfect sense. What He's just saying. What doesn't make sense is if God caused them by judgment when Adam sinned, causing all people to be born by nature where they can't want God, and then saying what He says. That doesn't make any sense. That's why Dr. Bones is like confused and and emotional and trying to get his head around this because it's just not a coherent, inable way of living or understanding how God works. And even in Proverbs 1, it talks about how when people have their judgments coming upon them, and they finally call out, "God, help me!" God will laugh and mock and say, "No, you didn't want Me. I'm not going to offer you anything." No, no, no. Yeah, I didn't want you because I've created you to be a reprobate. Remember, I've created you to display My glory through your destruction. And you didn't want Me because, remember, I didn't want you either. But yeah, you don't want Me, so I'm going to mock you now for not wanting Me, even though I created you without the ability to want Me. That that makes God look like the syndrome of the syndrome Incredibles movie. He's controlling the evil, but then destroying the evil, making it look like He's a superhero, like He's, it's the, it's the fireman setting the fire so as to put out the fire so that he looks like the hero. That that doesn't bring glory to God, folks. It just doesn't. So this is a more biblical picture of who God is.

Now, this is not evil of God. This is right because we don't deserve His love. We don't deserve His love whatsoever. Which, by the way, even on provisionism, where no one is arguing we deserve His love. That's what makes His love so gracious. No one deserves it. And even on provisionism, even on our view, where no one's arguing, you'll hear Dr. White and all these, "Oh, so Leon thinks that everyone deserves salvation." No, just because I believe God provides salvation in a way of salvation for all people doesn't mean I believe we deserve salvation, okay? That's a non sequitur. He's arguing, here's the non sequitur. Leon believes God provides salvation, a way of salvation for all people. Therefore, Leon believes God, that that everyone deserves a way of salvation. That's a non sequitur. Does not follow. But that's their argument against our view, and that's what you'll hear often time. Well, oh, remember, no one deserves. Next time a Calvinist says, "Well, no one deserves salvation." Just say, "Yes, we agree with that. That's why it's so abundantly gracious that He provides salvation for all." Just remember, we only deserve His anger and judgment because of our sin. And so if God wants to love one more than the other, or as Romans 9:12 talks about, "She was told the older will serve the younger," talking about Jacob and Esau. She was told the older, remember going back where he's quoting from, remember as we went through just recently with the Rogues Gallery with Jonathan Pritchet hosting, go back and listen to those where we walked through all of this. "The older will serve the younger." What's he talked about? Jacob and Esau. Two nations are in your womb. So we, as Westerners, very often we speak about individuals. We're individualistic mindset. Me, I, my, we always think that way. The first-century Jew did not. They thought corporately. Group of people. Jew versus Gentile. The nation of Israel. There are two nations in your womb. Remember, that's the dichotomy being set up here. Both of them are children of Abraham, but they both have different purposes and they accomplish different purposes. The seed will come through Isaac, not Ishmael, okay? The seed will come through Jacob, not Esau. That's the point that Paul is getting to. So just because you're a child of Abraham doesn't mean you're necessarily chosen to be the seed through which the blessing and the promise will come. That's the context. Keep that in mind because that's not how he applies it. He applies it individualistically as if God hated Esau and damned him to hell before he was ever born, and contrarily, He loved, salvifically loved Jacob and destined him for heaven before he was ever born. But that's not the right application.

"Will serve the younger, as it is written, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'" God loved Jacob, but hated Esau, right? Which he also says in, uh, either Luke or John 14:29, I believe it is, that that if you're going to follow God, you must hate your mother and father and your brother and sister. What's he talking about? Literally hate them? Even though the Bible says, "Honor your father and mother. Love others as you love yourself." No, of course, it's an idiomatic use of to choose one over the other. Jacob was chosen over Esau. It doesn't mean Esau was destined to hell before he was ever born. No, people who believed in and followed God and trusted. "I will bless those who bless you, I will curse those who curse you." That's a conditional promise. Ishmaelites and the other, uh, nations of the world that were not Israel weren't necessarily all condemned to hell just because they weren't Israelites. If they believed in God, if they trusted in God, they would have been saved. That's Rahab's story, for example. She wasn't an Israelite, but yet she trusted in God, and she makes the whole of faith because she had faith. She trusted in God. So it's not based upon your nationality. It's not based upon your lineage. It's not based upon being from, uh, your grandfather Abraham. What's it based on then? God can establish covenant with whomever He wants to, Jew or Gentile, male or female, slave or free. He can establish His covenant with whomever He wants. Who does He want to establish covenant with? Those who believe in Him. Which is the concluding words of Romans chapter 9. Gentiles are attaining righteousness because they pursue it through faith. But who's not? Those who are pursuing it through works, those who are striving and running after the law. They're not pursuing it. But the Gentiles who are believing are attaining righteousness because righteousness is not by works, but through faith in Christ Jesus. Now, you might think, "Is it because Jacob was a better guy than Esau was?" No. Have a look at verse 11, though. "They were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad." In order, what does it matter to mention they've done nothing, neither good nor bad, if God is ultimately sovereignly bringing about the good and the bad they end up doing? As on true Calvinist, because all things come to pass according to God's decree, the good and the bad included, of Jacob and Esau. It doesn't make any sense to negate the good and the bad they end up doing if God is the one who's controlling the good and the bad they end up doing. The reason He negates that is to say that's not the basis on which the seed comes. The seed doesn't come through the better child. The promise is fulfilled through even, you could argue, the worst of the two children, the weaker of the two children. In fact, God often chooses the weaker of the children, children. David, instead of his older brothers. He often chooses the weaker. Gideon's army after it's been paired down versus the big army in order to accomplish His plan of redemption and His salvation. Why? So that His glory is made manifest through their weakness. That has nothing to do with their individual salvation. It has to do with the plan of redemption through the seed, which is the point again that Paul points out at the end of the chapter. "In order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works, but because of Him who calls." "She was told the Lord will serve the younger. Jacob I loved, Esau I hated." What is the purpose of election? What is God's purpose in choosing the nation of Israel? What is God's purpose in choosing the nation of Israel? That salvation will come to the families of the earth, including, yes, even barbarian Gentiles who've never kept a law a day in their life. And God has a right to establish covenant with whomever He wants to, yes, even barbarian Gentiles, which is the point again He goes on to make towards the end of the chapter. So this is not, this is perfectly right for God to love someone more than another, perfectly right. And again, I don't have a problem with that. God can have a, a, a different kind of love for someone who's saved and under His grace than those who remain in rebellion and continue to run from Him. But that has nothing to do with God desiring for and longing for the salvation of all people so that they can come under His gracious love, relational love, in, in covenant with Him. Um, and so keep that in mind that yes, we can understand, even as provisionists, there are different ways in which God may love His creation. Um, the way He might love Lucifer versus Michael in the angelic world. There may be a different, obviously, a different way in which He loves them. But it doesn't mean that He desired or created Satan to be Satan, or caused Satan to be Satan, or Satan to do the things Satan did. That's not necessary. Doesn't follow. Just because God allowed for something to happen and didn't permit it from happening, or didn't, uh, keep it from happening, He, He permitted it, doesn't mean He caused it. Doesn't mean He wanted it. Doesn't mean He decreed it, okay? Those are not biblical concepts as far as I can tell. The Bible instead seems to present a warring God that's warring with the, the evil ways and the ways in which people are going and disappointed and frustrated with the ways in which they're going, not one that's causing them to do it secretly, only to pretend to be upset with crocodile tears after the fact. That's not the, the, the narrative of scripture. And so the fact that He's loved you enough to send His own Son to die for you, that should be enough for you. You don't have to have God love everyone the same way as He loved you. It's like, if I expect my wife to love everyone else as much as she loves me, that would just be wrong of me, unjust of me to insist that on my wife. And so it's wrong for us. Yeah. But if your wife is hating every other man and condemning them from something that she's controlling them to do, then yeah, I, I would have problems with that because that's the, that would be more analogous as to what you're trying to, to, to, to defend. And since God must love everyone the same way when we don't deserve a single ounce of it, does that help? Yeah, yeah. It's so confusing, Brian. My brain, but it does help. Good. Yeah.

And ultimately, even the Z made a good point in the chat. God loves Himself the most. That's a really good point. A lot of, and again, "Love others as you love yourself." God's expression of His love for others is an expression of who He is. He's love. Okay? This concept or idea that that love does not seek its own. According to scripture, God is love. And so this concept that God is just all about glorifying Himself. I have no problem with the concept of God glorifying Himself because what does that mean? God is making Himself known. That's all it means. But who are we making known? Are we making known a God who loves everyone and has provided for everyone, or a God who has pre-selected people for reasons that are unknown to us and dams everyone else to hell for reasons that they can't control? That we, we have to be careful what we're representing about our God because that's truly what brings Him glory is when we make Him known for who He really is, not make Him known for something He's not. Um, this is, I'm already almost at the two-hour mark. So I'm not going to go back. Uh, I was going to go back some over some of the other points that he made in in in the, uh, earlier portions of this, but just because of my long-windedness and going on, I want to make time for the end here for questions. If you do have questions and you want to repost those, please do so. I want to go back and and get some of our super chats in and, uh, and, and thank those who, um, uh, brought these things up. And I, I marked a couple of comments and questions that I wanted to get to as well. And so I, I'll get to those, uh, in just a moment.

"Provisionist perspective, Eric and Drew over there. Thank you guys. I appreciate that super chat. Man, is, uh, hard. Man, this is hard to watch how much this bad theology is harming this brother. This is why we need more responses like this on YouTube." I agree, brother. And these guys are doing a good job over at The Provisionist Perspective. If you want to go tune in to their broadcast as well. Um, but yeah, we've got to get, start getting the word out. And so we appreciate those who support and share these things because that's how we get the word out. Um, Aaron Moore, thank you for your super chat. He says, "This man's emotional response, the tears. It's the same response that I had whenever I was presented with predestination from the Calvinist perspective." Yeah, and we see this a lot where people are really shook. Matter of fact, I've got about 12 videos here on the side of people who've left the Calvinistic faith or left the Christian faith altogether because they think Calvinism is what's being taught, because that it's having this kind of, "I don't get it. This just doesn't make any sense. How is this rational? What in the world's going on here?" And so they just abandon Christianity altogether because they think Calvinism represents Christianity in every, in every way. And I, I just don't think it does. And that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. Um, so thank you for, uh, that support. Aaron. Thank you, Leon, for your ministry. I've learned so much from you. Are there any other provisionist voices out there worth listening to? The Provisionist Perspective, great guys that I've already mentioned. The Bible Brown guys, they're still putting out materials as well. Uh, uh, Trinity Radio. I'm on with those guys in the Rogue Gallery. Those guys are provisionist voices. Um, and there are others out there as well that I try to, uh, promote and let people know about as I come across them. Um, and so, yeah, there are a lot of provisionist voices out there. You just got to keep, keep looking for it and watch the videos that we put on because a lot of times we'll have our friends on and introduce their videos as well. It says, "Keep up the good work and blessings to you." PS, I like your one-string banjo. And yes, I have it right here. Thank you for that. And, uh, appreciate it very much. Um, yeah, GMW is saying, "Please tag this channel and people respond to this guy." Yeah, if you go, go, go to that link there where Ryan is talking. Someone's saying he's from Australia. He's Aussie. That, that would make sense of his, uh, his, his cool accent. I love that accent. Um, and, and tag him on that video. If five or 10 or 25 of, or all 600 of you who are watching right now tagged him on this video, there would be no doubt that he would find it and watch it. Maybe help him, at least to see our perspective, even if he doesn't agree with this, maybe he can, he can understand where we're coming from, and that would be a win in my book.

Mr. 52C, thank you for your super chat. He says, "The falsity of mere permission as described by Calvin stumbles me. How is God not the author of evil if, as the power for evil to be otherwise is a decision to allow, not a decision to ordain?" Again, I'm not sure if you're asking me that or asking Calvinists how they respond to that. Um, but this is why I don't believe that Calvinists can properly use the word allow or permit because He's not really allowing or permitting anything if He's decreed whatsoever comes to pass. In other words, if it's coming to pass because of His decree, then what is He permitting? His decree. He's permitting what He's decreed. That doesn't, it's just redundant nonsense in my estimation. And Calvin argued the basically the same concept in his own writings that that the word permit was just an invention of the weak-willed and the weak-minded. Um, and so, uh, again, I'm not sure if that's addressing exactly what you're asking, but hopefully it does.

Kentucky Brad, thank you for your, uh, your question. Oh, oh, this is, this is in the comments and he was just saying, "So you don't believe God's sovereign?" Interesting. You'll hear a lot of these kinds of, kind of smirks from Calvinists online. "Oh, so you don't believe God's sovereign?" No, I believe sovereign doesn't mean determinism like you do, Calvinists. And again, I, I don't know. Kentucky Brad may have been speaking tongue-in-cheek there or something like that, or talking to somebody else on the side, or something. Sovereign means what the Bible teaches it means. It's actually a transliteration of the word Lord. So when the Bible, some translations say Lord, Lord, and they don't even have the word sovereign in the entire Bible because they just say Lord, Lord. Some say Sovereign Lord because they've changed the language to fit that instead of just repeating itself, they'll call it Sovereign Lord. Sovereign means Lord. The Lord can rule how He pleases. So on my view, the Lord can rule a world of those He determines to make the choices they make, or He can rule a world that He allows for free choice. I believe He, He can be the Lord of both worlds. I believe He's powerful enough to create either one. Do you? That, that's a good question for Calvinists. Do you believe God is powerful enough to have a world where creatures make libertarian free choices, or is God just not capable, in your view, to handle that kind of world? I think He is.

Uh, Stuart, I wanted to respond to this. This may, maybe be my last one, just depending on any other good, uh, questions or chats that come in here as I'm answering this. But he says, "Respect you, Dr. Flowers, but I have to say I found you extremely disrespectful in the debate with Dr. White. I have no ties to him, so it's hard for me to hear you say, 'Trying to win the relationship.'" Uh, I, I don't know what specifically you're referring to. The only time that I remember being, uh, a little bit harsh with Dr. White is when I said, "Clear enough," because he'd asked me the same question five times. And I admit, yes, I got frustrated when you're asked the same question over and over and over again. You keep pointing out where he's leaving out the word, uh, "listen and learn," and he keeps leaving out the word "learned," as if it's just not there. And I keep responding to him, and I keep responding to him, and I keep telling him, "Answer the question." And he just keeps asking the same question over and over. And I finally go, "Is that clear enough?" That was more frustration, not a lack of love or respect for him. Um, if anybody's been listening to my program, I show innumerable amount more respect to Dr. White and his ministry and his work than he has to me, anybody and everybody from both sides of the perspective can see that that's just demonstrably true. Um, and for me to express one, I think, one moment of frustration with him asking me the same question over and over again is a bit unfair, uh, for me to say it's extremely disrespectful. Um, I brought a gift for him at the beginning. I made jokes. I've, I've made, uh, self-deprecating humor to try to help people to understand, hey, this is, we still love each other. I've offered, uh, many palm branches to Dr. White over the years and, uh, come on the program and invited him on the program and have offered opportunity after opportunity for us to reconcile and bring, uh, ourselves together. I don't know what more I can do, Stuart, than that. And so if, if you're still around and you're still listening, um, and you have a specific, besides me saying, "Fair enough," um, I, I don't know how else I could have been more respectful than than I was. Now, obviously, when you're debating somebody and you, you're trying to push somebody and trying to, you know, challenge their view, sometimes things can come across as less respectful than intended. I get that. I can understand how that may come across, especially if you're not a debater, you're not in the world of debate much, and you don't watch debates much. Um, but I think most people watching this or have watched our exchange with Dr. White over the years can attest to the fact that I've been far more gracious to him and respectful to him than he has ever been to me or other provisionists, for that matter. Um, and so that, that's, uh, hopefully helpful for you to understand that. Um, yeah, there's a few comments about that. I think we'll leave that one, um, leave that one behind.

Prime Objective says, "How do Calvinists align with 1 Timothy 2:4, 'God wants all people to be saved,' with their doctrine of limited atonement, where God did not make a propitiation for sin for all people everywhere?" There are different ways in which Calvinists deal with that. You've got people like Spurgeon who deride what he calls the Old Calvinistic Guard. The old Calvinists who put dynamite to this text that says if it says the exact opposite, then it would be in line with their doctrine. If it says, "God does not desire all people to be saved," it would be exactly in line with their doctrine. He says, "That's putting dynamite to the text. How dare Calvinists do that?" And and Spurgeon, arguably, is more Calvinistic, but yet he takes a different view. Um, as do various Calvinists, lower Calvinists, I would call them, lower versus higher Calvinists, more consistent Calvinists, higher Calvinists, take these, this passage differently. And so what some will do when it comes to the alls of scripture is they will say, "Well, this means God wants all kinds of people to be saved, both rulers and the common folk, both blacks and whites, both male and female. He, He wants people of all kinds." And so within the word "all," there is the "all sorts of all kinds" meant to be derived in that word. And that's the way they might take it. Okay? So God wants all kind of people, or all sorts of people. Again, like I said, Spurgeon denounces that and thinks that's ridiculous. Um, and, and thinks us like putting dynamite to the text, even though he leads more Calvinistic. Um, and again, there are other ways in which Calvinists take this passage as well. And, um, they might argue that God wants, uh, not only people of all types, or all sorts, but, um, He wants all of you, the elect, to be saved. And so, for example, you hear from, you know, what is it? 1 Timothy 2:3, or second Timothy, excuse me, 2 Peter 3:9. "God does not desire for any to perish, but all of you to be saved," is what the insert there. And so when He says "all," He means "all elect." All of you to be saved. Um, and so they'll read that into the text as the way in which to deal with it. Again, I, I think it is really genuinely putting dynamite to the text when you come to those kind of conclusions and undermines the, the obvious universality of these kinds of statements that says, uh, for, for God's desire for all people. Um, so it's an, and Prime Objective says, "So it's an unlimited all kinds of atonement, I guess that's one way of putting it. An atonement for all kinds of people, not an atonement that's truly sufficient for all, all people."

Olivia Haver is asking, "Why do you think Calvinism has gotten so popular?" Calvinism over the years, even according to leading Calvinists like Al Mohler, has mentioned that Calvinism's popularity has risen and dropped about four different times since Calvin. And he says, so it has kind of ebbs and flows. And even Phil Johnson, who's a well-known Calvinist that works with Grace to You Ministries with John MacArthur, he's predicted that this surge of Calvinism that's happening now will eventually be eaten by hyper-Calvinists. And he predicts that because that's what's happened. He says, in the past, is that Calvinism tends to eat its own and become more hyper, more consistent within the logic of its own system, but less consistent with scripture, and then it kills itself. And he's saying that as a Calvinist warning, Calvinists, let's not go that way. Let's not become hyper. Let's not go that direction. That's his warning. I use that as my evidence that if God ordains whatsoever comes to pass, why in the world would He ordain a truth of scripture to eat its own and to become hyper and anti-evangelistic and to cause disunity in this fashion? That doesn't make any rational sense to me as to why God would ordain, I.E. decree for that to happen if Calvinism is true. Um, why is it so popular? I know from my own testimony that Calvinism was tied in with the movement against the more of the health, wealth, prosperity, some of the charismatic chaos kind of extremes. Not all charismatics are extreme, by the way. I want to be careful to say that because I've got charismatic friends. But some of the extreme, uh, pop, chicken soup for the soul kind of theology out there, the very seeker, very hyper-seeker sensitive. Again, there's extreme versions of the seeker-sensitive. Bill Hybels and Rick Warren, I think have some good stuff and some good balance. But some people take that to an extreme of being so seeker-sensitive that the church becomes so much like the world that a lot of those who were more Calvinistic were the leading voices against the pragmatism of the church and the, the worldly influences within the church movement of the seeker-sensitive movement. And and so I think a lot of people who were moving away from the chicken soup for the soul kind of theology jumped on board with the more exegetical guys who happen to be more Calvinistic in their teaching. And a lot of people swallowed into Calvinism getting away from the more Joel Osteen type of folks out there. And so that, that I think is why we see a lot more, uh, popularity within Calvinism right now. But again, I, I think Calvinists are right that it will die back out because more and more people will start standing up and pointing out how illogical and irrational and unbiblical the doctrines actually are.

Um, what are your thoughts on Molinism? I have some videos on Molinism. At Brandon Hunter, who's a Molinist, on Eric Hernandez, on who are Molinists. Molinists tend to be good friends with provisionism because we, we affirm libertarian free will in the sense that God is not ultimately causing what people choose to do through a divine decree, but that God knows all things. And Molinism attempts to philosophically explain how God can know a future free choice without being the one who determines it. Whereas the Calvinist believes that the way God knows it is by determining it, because He determined it, that's why He knows it. He decreed it, that's why He knows it. And the Molinist is saying, "No, He, He knows it because He's God, and God knows what you will freely choose to do." And God, uh, brings about His plan and His purposes through His knowledge. And Molinism gets into the philosophical aspects of that, which is very difficult to explain and very philosophically based. I'm more of a theologian than a philosopher, so I'll let the philosophers usually, uh, hammer that one out. And I can, I can see arguments for both views.

"Why do we have to," Josiah, I believe, is saying, "Why do we have to label ourselves with these stupid names? Can't we just believe what the Bible says?" Yeah, I mean, that's a good sentiment, but, um, the truth of the matter is, people believe differently. And so both of us can believe, read the same Bible and come away with two different conclusions. And theologians and others give names to those conclusions in shorthand instead of trying to say, "Okay, I have to answer a question about every one of these texts." I can give shorthand. Well, you know, he's a Calvinist. He typically reads those verses, the, the swath of those verses with a Calvinistic interpretation. That guy over there, he reads the swath of those same exact verses more with a provisionistic or an Arminian, some might use that terminology, depending on where they stand. An Arminian view, though I would consider Arminianism different from provisionism on a couple of levels that we've talked about before. And so that, that's why the, the labels are there. I don't like labels any more than you do. I, I wish we all just got along. But I think our differences are a mark of our free will. Otherwise, you've got God decreeing for some of His children to misinterpret the Bible, which again, does, does not make any, any rational sense. Uh, yeah, some people were asking about our weight loss stuff. I'm still on my diet. I've lost about 12 pounds since I started the more of the low-carb stuff. I'm more on a keto to, more of a keto version of that. At first, I was not losing weight very much because I wasn't calorie counting. I was just carb cutting. And I, I learned very quickly that carb cutting is not quite enough if you're just overdoing the calories. And so I was just staying plateaued. And so I eventually had to start watching my calorie intake as well. And the, the weight started dropping off pretty quickly after that. So I'm about 12 lbs down from the time that I met with Warren on that. And I think, uh, Warren's still, uh, Warren's still hanging in there. We haven't talked much recently, but we'll, we'll get back together and and touch base with each other as we keep going on that. So, uh, thank you for that question.

Um, okay, well, we, we've got more questions coming in. I've just realized we just won another two-hour mark. I was trying to aim for the another two hours and so I just realized that we were, we were, we went back beyond that. But that, that's still okay. That's, that's pretty short for us, though. For those that know our tendencies at times, we can go even longer than that. But I do appreciate those who have given to support this ministry. Those who share and like this. Remember Trinity Seminary, a great seminary for those looking for a higher theological education. Make sure you check them out at trinity.edu. And yes, there's still work on another, uh, broadcast that goes a little bit deeper into our sanctification rather than just our sociology, uh, and our justification gets into our sanctification, looking at, starting another broadcast. But still, just trying to find the right timing for my own personal journey and life as to when that would be good to launch, based upon my own restraints and time, commitments. So, uh, bear with me on that. Um, I, I, it is in the works and we're still praying about it. But I, I don't want to rush into something just because, um, it has been asked for. I, I want to make sure I'm doing it for the right motivations and, um, with the, the, the right direction with regard to my family and all the needs of my life. And so, just bear with me as I continue to work through that as well. And pray for me as I continue to work through all those things as well. Thank you for the 620 who are joining us right now. Um, and for, for those that, um, are, uh, joining us for the very first time, welcome and thank you for coming. Tune in for more live broadcasts. We usually do a live broadcast at least once a week, but there's new content coming out almost daily, thanks to Caleb's work. And so make sure you like and share those as well because it does help us get the word out. And I appreciate those who support us. Go now, share Christ and show love. God bless.

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