Birthright: The Full Series | Timothy Alberino Presentation

Timothy Alberino, my good friend, how are you doing?

Very well, Josh. Very nice to be with you after what, a two-year hiatus?

Yeah, it's been a long time. It's really good to see you, good to talk with you again. I know the last interview that we did, it was a while ago, but we talked for about three, three and a half hours. And before YouTube deleted my channel in TSR history, I believe that was the most popular, well-received interview that I had. So, it's unfortunate that YouTube deleted it, but we got a backup plan for this. We now have Daily Renegade, so if YouTube deletes this one too, it'll be backed up on the website. But yeah, it's good to talk with you again.

Likewise. A lot of people have been wondering, what has been going on? Where have you been the past two years?

All over the place. Um, I certainly haven't been idle for the last couple of years. I've been working on two, two main projects. One, of course, is the, was my book. I did a lot of research and some intensive writing for that book, and that's obviously finally finished. And also, I've been filming a television series. Oh, a new series that's been a lot of work. And I was overseas for six months. I was on several expeditions and doing all kinds of exciting things. Um, a lot of what we did was in Peru. This is all different from the True Legend stuff. This is a whole different project, really. It's a television show for network, network television or a streaming platform. I do have a lot of details about it, but I'm not at liberty yet to announce the details of that show. But I can tell you that I'm working with Gary Haven. Gary is, Gary and I have partnered up, and we've made some incredible discoveries. Stay tuned for that sometime in the future.

That's amazing! Do you have any idea of like a release date or general time when people might expect it?

No, there's a long story related to this project. I'll tell you in brief: it began as a treasure hunt, actually. It was a big group of us in Peru, and we had a crew of 20 people, more than 20 people, actually. Jamie Walden was in Peru with me and some other people that the audience might know. And we were originally shooting for a treasure hunting show, and we ended up pivoting because we got, we ran into some precarious situations with the Peruvian mob, and we had to switch directions and film a different kind of show that we had not anticipated. And I literally had to rewrite this whole show and switch gears. And so, we ended up doing something else. We went, I'll tell you one thing, we went up and we made a fascinating discovery of what we think is one of the legendary lost cities of the Inca. Oh, wow, in the Andes! So that, that's about as much as a tease as I can give you.

I don't know if you're at liberty to say, has a network picked it up, or is this something you're releasing by yourself?

Oh, that's a long story. We had a network on board, and it was going to be on network TV, actually last month. It was going to air prime time. And that fell through under some very strange circumstances. So, Gary and I have decided to take matters into our own hands, and we're now producing, we're just going forward with the production of the show ourselves. That's what I've been working on. I'm doing a lot of editing. I've directed it, I'm editing it, posted it. And so, that's in the works, and I can't tell you where that's going to land yet, but I can tell you that it's exciting. It's going to be very compelling and a very powerful show.

You showed me a little teaser of the intro a few days ago. It looks phenomenal! I'm not going to tell anybody what's in it, but it looks phenomenal. It's definitely something I would watch. I'm looking forward to watching that because I know people are wondering, people have asked me, "Are you and Steve Quayle still working together?"

Uh, no, Steve and I decided to part ways about two years ago, um, because we're both kind of just really engaged in our own projects now. Steve's got all kinds of cool stuff going on, and I've got cool stuff going on. So, we just decided that it would probably be better for us to focus on our own projects. That was about two years ago. I know Steve's continuing with the True Legends conferences and all of that, and I encourage everybody to follow him, continue to support him and follow him. He's got great stuff.

Good deal. Absolutely.

Okay, so we are here to talk about your brand new book, and I know this has been a long process. And thank you for sending me an advanced copy of it. It's, it is really, really good. It's, it's truly amazing. Um, and when I, I, I told you a little bit before the show, but as I was reading it, it really reminded me of Mark Flynn's book, *Forbidden Secrets of the Labyrinth*, not, not in terms of content, but in terms of writing style, how one thing leads to another, leads to another, leads to another. Um, and it really all builds on the foundation that you lay in the beginning of the book, which is why, for the audience, the audience is going to be excited about this. Tim and I have decided to actually do a series of interviews on this book, just like we did years ago with Mark Flynn, because his book really called for it. Well, Tim's book really calls for it as well. So, this is obviously part one, and so let's get into the book.

I know this took you a long time to put together. I remember a time when you said you were beginning to reach a different conclusion than you thought that you were going to when you first began to write it. And I've certainly been there myself with pretty much every book I've ever written. I think, what, what has the writing process been like for you, especially with this being your first book?

Well, let me say that, and I write this in the beginning of my book, in "A Note From the Author," um, this book actually began on the bank of a tributary to the River Masan, which is a tributary to the Napo, which is itself a tributary to the Amazon. And I can remember, I was 18 or 19. I don't remember if I was 18, I think I was 18. Um, can't really remember if I was 18 or 19, I was somewhere in that age range. Um, pacing on the side of this smaller river, Sada was the name of it, the River S. One morning, I woke up and I began to contemplate the Garden of Eden. I began to contemplate Adam and Eve, not a hard thing to do when you're in the middle of the Amazon. I really began to understand the gospel in a different way, and understand what it means to be a human being, what it means to be Adam, essentially. And that's where this book began. That's literally where this began for me.

And so that question, "What does it mean to be a human being?" has been percolating in my mind for years. And this book is the culmination of these different tracks of thought that I've been having, um, in different stages of my life, and they, and they've all, they've all converged in this book, and I think that will become apparent to people if they read it.

In the course of writing this book, I realized that in order to tell this story that I was unfolding, to get to the endgame, and the revolving around the notion of this, of the Birthright—the last chapter of the book is called "Jacob and Esau"—and that was the endgame for me. That was where I, where I knew I wanted to get. I didn't realize that to get there, I was going to end up going all the way back to the beginning, all the way back to the creation of mankind, and indeed, even further back into the remote past, the unknowable past, the pre-Adamic past. Um, and it's, it's when I went back to the beginning and I started working my way forward that all that, that those contemplations that I had in the jungle started surging back into my mind. I had not planned on writing the things that I, that I began to contemplate, you know, back when I was 18 years old in the Amazon, and it suddenly just started coming out of me. And so that was surprising to me, and I spent the first four or five chapters, um, probably four chapters, writing about, writing about the beginning of mankind and the, the, the what happened in the Garden of Eden, what Eden may represent. I have a very, I would say, a very unique take on what Eden represents. Um, and so all of this stuff just started coming out of me. So the book, to answer your question, the book ended up being, uh, it ended up being a lot broader in scope than I had originally intended.

I found the same thing when I was reading it, that around, like, right after the Chapter 4 mark, like that first section really lays the foundation of the book. And that's why I wanted to focus on specifically that for this interview. Of course, we can go into other areas, it doesn't matter, but to lay that foundation down is really important with how the rest of the book is written, because you start off talking about something that I, I think it's almost cliché to say, but nobody believes it. You know, "Man is not the center of the universe." You know, it's, it's cliché to say that, but nobody believes it, nobody lives like that, nobody actually recognizes how true that is and sits down and thinks about it. And you start off the book like this, and it's amazing. I, I actually had some new thoughts of my own because of this.

From our human perspective, what role do you see man playing? And in the eternal perspective of God, our Creator, what role does man have? Are these two roles different?

I guess the best way to answer that question is to define what I mean by "Birthright" and what I mean by "Dominion of the Earth." Because as I define in my book, the birthright of Adam, the birthright of the human species, is dominion of planet Earth. That is our birthright, and I believe that I, I, I prove that with the text of scripture, that that is in fact why Adam was created. See, Adam wasn't, Adam wasn't created and then given a purpose. Adam was created for a purpose. And those, those are very distinct concepts. Because the one is, is kind of whimsical, when creating this new being, this new, this new creature in the cosmos of creation, mankind, creating him and then figuring out, "What am I going to do with him?" Right? As opposed to, "There is a, there's a purpose here, and I'm going to create mankind to fill this purpose. There's a, there's a task here, there's a role, and we need to create a new kind of creature to fulfill that role." And I believe that is the depiction of the creation of Adam, the biblical perspective of how Adam was created. He was created for a purpose, not created and then given a purpose, and that's very, very important.

Um, and his purpose in a nutshell, well, I would say there's, there's two primary aspects to our purpose. You know, when I say Adam, Adam is us. And Adam has two primary purposes, had two primary purposes. The first he lost, and the second remains, and it's going to remain, I think, until, until, until the very end, when he's going to lose it, when we're going to lose it. The first is to be a part of the family of God. Adam was created as a sibling in the family, and that's why Adam is called a Son of God. And the genealogy of Jesus of Nazareth goes all the way through Jesus's genealogy in one version: Jesus, the son of Joseph, or Jesus, the, the, the son of Mary, and the, the son of so-and-so, and the son of so-and-so, all the way back through to the, to the antediluvian world and the, the antediluvian patriarchs, you know, working its way all the way through, "the son of so-and-so, the son of so-and-so, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the Son of God." And so we have this lineage as, as, as the, as the offspring of Adam that traces all the way back to our original progenitor, Adam, who was a Son of God. And so Adam was created to be a part of the family. In fact, the language of scripture is familial. It's familial. The, the, the vernacular of our relationship with the Father is, is, is, is framed in those familial terms, and the way that we relate to Our Father who is in heaven, the, the, the way that we relate to each other, who are the faith, the brethren. And so we know that, because of the testimony of scripture, we know that mankind was created to be with the Father in the Father's house. And this is, of course, the parable of the prodigal son, which we can get into later. Um, that's the primary purpose. Adam was, was, was, was created to be a son in the Father's house, not the only son, by the way, but a son, the younger son, the younger sibling.

The second purpose was, because Adam was a Son of God, he was part of the, of the, you might, you might consider it the royal house. And Adam was given, was tasked, mandated with the dominion of the Earth, the governance of planet Earth. And so, Adam was, was assigned, was given the title deed of planet Earth, and was supposed to govern the Earth, and, and, and indeed, today is still supposed to govern the Earth. So, the birthright of Adam, that is, dominion of the Earth. And so those are the two primary reasons that Adam was created: he was created first for fellowship in the family of God, and second for governance of the Earth. And those two themes are laced all the way through the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, and I, and I follow that thread all the way in my book, from the first chapter to the last chapter. And so it becomes very apparent, you know, when you read the scriptures, how Jesus says that we're going to become like the angels in response to a question: "The woman lost her husband and several men before she died, and whose wife would she be in heaven, basically?" And Jesus's answer was that in heaven no one is married or given in marriage, and he said, "But you will be like the angels in respect to their immortal condition." But not just in respect to their immortal condition, also in respect to their estate. Jesus says that we were given power to become sons of God, and that we would, that we would become like the angels, being sons of the resurrection, he says. So, the power to become a Son of God, and we can loop back to this later on if we decide to talk about something, um, further down the line here, that I think is really crucial. If we're given the power to become the sons of God through the resurrection, the resurrection is, is the power. So when Jesus says that we've been, been given power to become the sons of God, it is the resurrection that effectuates the new birth in Christ and that restores us to the family.

There are so many things that we can unpack there, and you certainly do in your book. Um, and while I was reading it, I, I actually had to take notes in things because there, there was a lot of new things that I hadn't thought of, but the way that you lay it out, it makes sense. Um, talking about some definitions here: angels, extraterrestrials, aliens. How do you define these words in *Birthright*?

I define those words exactly according to their traditional definitions. Um, an extraterrestrial, I don't have it in front of me exactly, I don't remember exactly what I wrote, but an extraterrestrial is, is basically, it's an, it's a, it's a, it's a sentient entity, if you're talking about conscious beings, beings whose providence, whose origin is not planet Earth. So if you have an entity in the, in the cosmos of creation, if you have an entity whose origin is not the Earth, then that entity is by definition extraterrestrial. Extra meaning "not of the Earth," and then terrestrial, "the Earth." So they're, they're not from the Earth, they're extraterrestrial, they're from somewhere else. So their origin is not planet Earth.

Um, and then the, the definition for, for alien, again, I don't remember exactly how I put it in the book, but it, it would be something along the lines of, something approximating, um, an entity that is not human, that is not us. So any, any entity that is not human, that is not the offspring of Adam and Eve, is by definition alien to the human race. Um, and of course, we're talking about conscious beings in the context of, of my book, we're talking about conscious, sentient beings. So, based on those two definitions, extraterrestrial, alien, then I posit the question: "Does the Bible introduce us, does it introduce any such beings that, that might be defined as extraterrestrial alien?" And the answer is, of course, unequivocally yes, resoundingly yes. We have this class of beings who are called angels. And by the way, "angel" is a very, um, "angel" is a, is, is a somewhat nebulous designation because it doesn't really, it doesn't tell us, give us any information about the, um, about the nature of the beings that it designates, because the word "angel," *malak* in the Hebrew and *angelos* in the Greek, it just means "messenger," an envoy, "one who is sent." And in fact, that very same word "angel" that we translate as "angel" is used in several other places in the Old Testament to describe human beings who are operating in the function of messengers, um, or envoys. So it doesn't necessarily, it's not exclusive to heavenly beings, the term "angel," although when it's used in scriptures, most of the time it is referring to heavenly beings.

Right off the bat in Chapter 1, in fact, the first chapter of my book, and this caused a lot of controversy, I noticed last time you and I talked, there's some real acrimony, some real controversy, because I used the term "Elder Race" to describe the angels. Well, if anybody wants to read my book, they better get used to it, because I use that term from start to finish. In fact, the very first chapter of my book is called, is entitled, "The Elder Race." And I've invented that term because again, the word, the, the word "angel" is, is, um, is nebulous. And so I kind of created my own term, and it makes sense because the word "elder" means "older." It's just another way to say "older," and "race" I think is self-explanatory. So if the, if we have an angelic race of entities that are not us, they're not human, and they're older than us, you and I can agree that both of those things are obviously true according to the scriptures: they're not human and they're older than us. That makes them an Elder Race, right? Right, it makes them an Elder Race. So I'm not saying anything controversial here, just because people haven't heard this term in their ears yet, it's nothing controversial. It's just me describing the reality of these beings in a way that is useful to me as I move forward in the book, so that I don't always have to go back and, you know, or use nebulous terms like "angel." I can actually say "Elder Race" as opposed to, and in contrast to, "human race." We are human, they are not. We're the younger ones, they're the older ones. And again, to clarify, they are not human, they're not us. That makes them, by the way, and they're not from the Earth. We know that they shouted for joy when the Earth was created, according to the Book of Job. Therefore, they are extraterrestrial and alien. And, and, you know, whether people like it or not, I mean, that's the, by definition, that's what these entities are. And I'm not saying that they're gray aliens with the big black eyes or anything like that, that's a totally different situation. Uh, in fact, I think that we look very much like them. So these are not grotesque beings. In fact, these are sons of God, they're part of the family. Some people might, might recognize a little hat tip to J.R.R. Tolkien here because, uh, in the, in the, in the, in the, I always, I always pronounce this, pronounce this wrong, *The Silmarillion*, is that, is that, is it *The Silmarillion*? I have no idea. Well, I read it and I can't remember the, I can't, I never pronounce it properly. Um, but he designates the elves as the Eldar, and Tolkien obviously was drawing, he obviously was viewing the Bible from this perspective that there's the human beings who are the younger race, and then there's the Eldar. So, um, I, I just curious if anybody picked up on that. If not, that's, that's a little, little hat tip to J.R.R. Tolkien there. Um, so you explained it in a footnote too, so even if anybody, if they didn't catch it, you have it right there in the footnote.

Oh, and by the way, thank you for putting your footnotes right on the page instead of endnotes in the back of the book, so I don't have to flip around. That is one of my biggest pet peeves when I read a book is I hate having to stop and flip to the back of the book. It completely breaks up your, your flow of reading. So I determined I'm going to put the footnotes right at the bottom of every page. I like Mike Heiser does that too in his book, and I really appreciate that. And something that I thought was really interesting the way that you, you did this, you talk about the, the Prodigal Son parable. And now I, I've heard the interpretation before, and I really like it because it, it fits about, you know, angels and, uh, you know, being the older brother, the younger brother is us as humans, and, uh, you know, you have God the Father and everything, and it all, it all fits really well. Uh, but then most of us breeze over the servants, and you, you deal quite a bit in your book with the servants. So, can you tell us, um, what, what is this, in case there's somebody out there that hasn't heard the parable, what, what is this parable, and, uh, who are the characters, and who do you define as, as the servants, and why?

So, the parable of the prodigal son, I think, is one of the most imperative parables to understand. And of course, it's a parable of Christ, and Jesus relates this parable to the prodigal son. I think everybody's familiar with it, so I'll just give people a cliff-note version. There's a father who has this household, you know, you might envision it as a royal household because the father is apparently pretty wealthy, and he has at least two sons in this household. And there's an older son and a younger son. And the, and these sons, this is, and this is important, Josh, these sons have a co-inheritance in their father's house. They have a co-inheritance in their father's house. They're both sons, right? So as the sons of the father, they have, they both have an inheritance of his estate, right? So they start off in their father's estate, and they have an inheritance in their father's estate. And the younger son decides that he wants his father to give him his inheritance. Now, whatever that would be, you know, sheep or cows or whatever that would have been in that, in, in the context of that parable, so that he can go and basically live it up in the world. And so his father grants him his request, he gives him his inheritance. And the son, the prodigal son, goes out and he squanders his inheritance. In other words, he sells the goods that were in his inheritance, and he goes and he squanders the money on debauchery, and he ends up in squalor. And he ends up in, in such a, in such a degree of squalor that he actually becomes indentured to a swineherd. And the swineherd is an archetype of Satan. And he ends up eating the slop of pigs because he's so poor. So he's keeping pigs for the swineherd, feeding the pigs and eating the slop of pigs because he's so poor, he's so destitute. And he realizes in this, in, in, in his depravity, he realizes that even the servants in his father's house are living much better than him. That, that the servants at least have food and a roof over their heads, and are living in a much more luxurious lifestyle than he is, eating the slop of pigs. And so he decides that he's going to return to his father's house and beg his father to take him back, if only as a lowly servant, not a son anymore, he's forfeited that. "Just take me back as a servant." And so he determines to do this, and he's under the impression, I think we can infer from the, from the parable, that his father is going to be exceedingly angry with him for squandering his inheritance. And so the prodigal son makes his way back to the father's house, expecting his father to be, to be angry. But he is shocked to find that instead of his father being angry, his father is waiting for him at the door. And when he sees him coming from afar off, he runs out to meet him, and he embraces him, and he kisses his neck, which is, of course, the, the, a reception, an unexpected reception. And, and rather than, rather than taking him back begrudgingly, taking him back as a servant in his house, he receives him again as his son, brings him back into the house, clothes him with a, with a clean robe, clean garments, and new sandals on his feet, which is representative of the resurrection and the righteousness of Christ, and puts a ring on his finger. That's the seal of his house, the father's house. In other words, the son is brought back into the family, ring goes on the finger, he's, he's a full member of the family again, new garments. So people are beginning to pick up the gospel here in this story, big time. And, and there's a fatted calf that's, that's slain, and, and so that they can have a feast and a party. And, and the servants are, um, the father instructs the servants to throw this banquet. And then you have some commentary from the older brother, who's a little bit, was a little bit ticked off because his commentary to the father was, "You never slaughtered a fatted calf for me! You never threw me a big party! And I never left! I was always here with you, here with you in the house. He goes off and spends his inheritance, squanders his inheritance, and comes back, and you're throwing him this big party! I've always been here with you!" And, uh, and so there's the, there's, there's basically four characters. There's, there's actually five: you have the father, his two sons, the older brother and the younger brother, you have the swineherd, again, an archetype of Satan, and you have the servants. And I submit to you, Josh, and I make this case in my book, that this is an amazing depiction of the gospel, and I think it goes over a lot of people's heads. This is an, I think, one of the most, I think this is probably the clearest depiction of the gospel in, in, in the scriptures. This parable actually depicts the gospel better than I think any of the apostles could, could, could explain it in the, in, in the epistles in the New Testament, Jesus's parable.

And so obviously, we know who the father is. The father is the Father, the very same Father who Jesus would pray to, "Our Father Who Art in Heaven." That's the Father. So we know that one of the sons, now before I get into this, let me say that there is a, a superficial interpretation because, um, the prophecy and, and parables and things often times they're layered, there's layered interpretations. It's not always just one, sometimes there's multiple. In fact, I think in many cases, and I demonstrate that in my book, there's multiple interpretations, and they're all correct simultaneously. Um, for example, the parable of the, of the prodigal son is certainly applicable to Israel and Judah, right? And so in the context of Israel, Israel and Judah, of course, Judah split off, um, Israel splintered off and so forth, and, and was regathered, and, and so, um, so there is an interpretation there. But I believe the deeper interpretation, as it pertains to the gospel of Christ, we are the younger brother. Adam, Adam is the younger brother. Adam is, is the one who squanders his inheritance. And the older brother are the other sons of God who are with the Father, this, the very sons of God that the Bible designates the sons of God. So I'm not making up terminology here. You have Adam, a Son of God, right? Picture Adam from the beginning, before the fall, because before people start wondering about this, Adam lost his estate at the fall. He did not lose his birthright, but he lost his estate. Okay? So, at the fall, Adam loses his estate. He is sundered from the family of God, which was the, which was the most drastic and terrible consequence of the fall. Being sundered from the family of God is terrible. That's our big, that's our number one problem as, as the human species: we've been sundered from the Father. And, and of course, I think we all know that, those of us who are believers. And so, so, um, Adam's the younger brother, the other sons of God are the, are the older brother. The servants, that is, I, I remember I was writing about this in my book because I hadn't contemplated the servants either until I was writing, copying the parable from the Bible into my book, and I, and I just sort of froze, and I thought, "Okay, I, I know who the sons are, that's evident. Adam was a Son of God, and then there's these other sons of God. We know who the Father is. The swineherd is evidently, is, is apparently a, I think, very clearly an archetype of, of Satan. So, who are the servants?" Obviously, there's a, there's a whole cosmology here that we don't understand. There, it's the, the universe is comprised of more than, than God, angels, and humans, and demons. Those are basically the four categories that, that, that, that, that we, that most Christians contemplate. There's God, there's angels, there's, there's demons, and there's humans. And I'm here to tell you that that is woefully underestimating the, the grandeur, the immensity, the complexity of God's creation. And so I think there's a myriad, and we've talked about this, I think, probably half a dozen times, there's a myriad of, of, of, of, of things out there that we have no idea about, obviously. So, um, so the servants, I think, represent sentient entities that are, are, they're not the devil, and they're not, they're not enemies of God. They're, they're, they're in the Kingdom of Heaven, but they're not the sons of God, they're not part of the family. So I had to contemplate this idea that, "Are there sentient entities in the cosmos who are not part of the family, but are, but nevertheless, are sentient, conscious beings?" And so then you have to ask, "Well, who is part of the family?" The Bible tells us, "the sons of God." Why else would we find this, these familial terms in the Bible unless we were supposed to, intended to understand them the way that we understand our families? See, how do you understand the Father? How, how can we, how can we understand the hierarchy of the Kingdom? Well, we can understand it because every single one of us is part of a family. Every one of us, we, most of us have siblings, all of us have a mother and a father, you know, not all of us know our mother and father, but all of us have a mother and father. We're either sons or daughters, and then we become, most of us end up becoming mothers and fathers ourselves. We know what a family is. We understand the language of the family, and the language of the family is not derived principally from us, from human beings. It, it pre-exists us. We were brought into the family, and then we were allowed, in a, in a, in a, in a remarkable show of affection and favor by, by the Maker, by the Father, we were privileged with the ability to then procreate our own families as, as an image, as a, as a, as a likeness, as a shadow of, of something else, of the family of God. And we all know that there's a family of God. Who, what Christian would deny that there's a family of God? No Christian would deny that there's a family, not, not any Christian that reads the Bible, that's for sure. And so we have to contemplate our story within the context of a family. I like to think of it as a royal family, a royal household. And, and so, who are the servants? I guess I, I just took a very long time to say, "I don't know."

Well, no, I mean, you, you, you really need all that groundwork anyway to even, even begin to start to think about the question because it does open up this whole broader topic, which, which we definitely will get to because obviously it plays a large part in the book. Um, but before we get to there, we, we're, we, let's focus on the, the older brother because you focus on this in the first part of your book. Before we get to the extraterrestrials, let's talk about some of the extradimensionals.

So, one of my favorite chapters, and believe it or not, for the audience, we, we have just now got through Chapter 1, and we have barely scratched the surface. But one of my favorite chapters was Chapter 2, "Shadows of Reality." And of course, this was one of my favorites because it deals with higher dimensions, you know, quantum physics stuff, you know, my, my wheelhouse, stuff that I'm really interested in: extradimensional entities. What did you learn about this, this strange environment called hyperspace, and how does it relate to extra realities, angels, the types of things that we're talking about?

At the beginning of that chapter, I, I, I start off with something that you and I have discussed before, with Plato's Allegory of the Cave, which is a perfect allegory. It's, it's, it's perfectly applicable to what we're talking about because, and we've talked about this before, but it's useful for people to, to, to reimagine this scenario. And, and, and again, I'm going to nutshell this, so this is a very abridged version of Plato's Allegory of the Cave. It's in my book. And in his allegory, there's these individuals who, who from the time they're in this peculiar situation, these individuals in, in, in Plato's, in, in this little universe that Plato creates in his mind, these individuals have a very bizarre condition. They've been living in a cave since they were infants. In fact, they're not living in a cave, they're chained up in this cave. And so their entire life, all they've been able to see is one facet of the cave, the wall that's in front of them. They have no idea what's outside the cave because the mouth of the cave is behind them. And so all they see is the wall of the cave in front of them. And so the, and so their comprehension of the exterior, of the exterior world, in fact, of, of reality itself, is, is derived solely from what they see, the shadows that they see on the wall. Because Plato sets up a scenario in which behind them, you know, there's a fire, and behind that fire, um, there are, or, or behind them, there's, there's activity happening, and then there's a fire, and so that fire is casting the shadows on the wall. Um, and so everything that's happening outside of the cave, they view it in shadow on the wall, in silhouette. So they view the world, they're constrained, they have this peculiar condition that they are condemned to see the world in shadows.

So this is a really good allegory for the offspring of Adam and the fall because of sin. We also are condemned, because of the fall, we also are condemned to see the world in shadows. And so we have a problem, a problem which Paul defines. Paul talks about us seeing as if through a glass dimly, or we're looking into a dim mirror, something to that effect. The, the, the King James, I think, has it, "we see as through a glass dimly." And that is, and of course, back in, in the ancient times, um, even if Paul's talking about a mirror, he's not talking about the kind of mirror that we're used to. They didn't have mirrors, glass mirrors. They had obsidian mirrors. And so when you looked into, it's a, you know, black obsidian stone. And so when you look at a black obsidian stone, if you were holding up a mirror of, of obsidian stone mirror, or, or polished bronze or something like that, so whether it's stone or bronze or some kind of a polished metal, whatever, whatever they would have had in the Bronze Age and, or in the time of Paul, uh, you would have seen a very faint reflection of yourself in that mirror. You know, you can't think of, again, you can't think of a glass mirror where you see an exact replication of yourself or reflection of yourself. You got to think, in the ancient mirror, you're seeing a, a shadowy kind of a blobby representation of yourself. But in the King James version, "we see as through a glass darkly or dimly," that is explaining exactly the, the visual impairment of cataracts. That's exactly what cataracts is. Cataracts, you get a film over your eye, and you're forced to see through that film. So everything you're looking at is kind of, um, you know, there's a haze over everything. It's, you're seeing through a, like a dirty glass, basically.

Almost like scales on your eyes.

Scales on your eyes, exactly. So Paul is describing what you might think of as, uh, as, as a, what I call in my book, "perceptual cataracts" that we have because of the fall. In fact, Paul later goes on to, to, to, to explain what the remedy is, that, that this perceptual, perceptual cataracts that we have, he calls "the imperfect," and that we're going to see this way until we put on "the perfect," and that happens at the resurrection. So when we begin to realize that the resurrection is the rectification of the human condition, this fallen condition, this condition of perceptual cataracts and everything else, death, disease, and everything else that comes with the curse of sin, the wages of sin, um, we, we, when we understand that the rectification—when I say rectification, I mean the remedy, let's say—of our condition is the resurrection. Because when we're resurrected in Christ, we're, are, we're reset to the blueprint of Adam. So you can imagine all of our defects, all of our gene, we're still going to be us. In fact, we're going to be more human at the resurrection than we are now. We get into that later. So at the resurrection, all of our defects, all of our impairments, including our, our, our, our perceptual cataracts, are going to be removed. You can, you can picture it as, as, as you might picture it as, for those familiar with, uh, with *Star Trek*, you know, when they, when they use the, uh, when they beam people in the transport, everybody knows what I'm talking about. You know, in a lot of those episodes, they use the transporter to filter out some kind of a disease or something and reset the person back to an earlier copy of themselves. That's a little, for, for, for, for the Trekkies out there, that might help them understand that that's what happens to us at the resurrection. So all the imperfections, all of everything that is a result of the fall, is filtered out at the resurrection, and we're, and we're remade. We're still us, we're remade, but without our imperfections, without the, the, the human condition, which is, which is, um, which is degeneration, corruption, and degeneration, and ultimately death. So all of that is filtered out at the resurrection, and we are going to be perfectly human without any defects. We're going to be Adam again. We're going to be unblemished human beings with the full potential and, and, and, and the full abilities that, that we were supposed to have from the beginning.

And so when we understand that, we realize that Adam was created as a perfect person, perfect human being. He didn't even know sin in the beginning, he was sinless. And, and he, there was, there was no death. He was, he was immortal, living in the presence of God in, in the, in the, in, in Eden. And, and it wasn't until the fall that he began to degenerate. As soon as he transgressed, he began to degenerate because he was, he was divorced from the family of God. He was, uh, he was expelled from the family, and where the Tree of Life is, where that sustenance, that life-giving sustenance is. And he is, he is expelled from, from, from the house of God, like the prodigal son, although the prodigal son, you know, does it of his own accord. And Adam begins to degenerate. He begins to find himself in a state of destitution, squalor, and depravity. That's us. And so part of that destitution, squalor, and depravity, because we're divorced from the family and we're now reaping the wages of sin, and you and I are now copies of copies of copies of copies of copies from Adam with all kinds of genetic defects. We have all kinds of problems, both physical and spiritual. Okay? And so one of the problems I believe we have as the human species, fallen, is perceptual cataracts. And what I mean by that, and I'm not just talking about obviously our physical eyes, although our physical eyes are probably a lot less effective than they used to be thousands of years ago, um, I'm talking about our ability, again, coming a long way around to answer your question, our ability to perceive the dimensional totality of created order is incredibly hampered by this, by this degenerate copy of Adam that I'm wearing. So I believe that Adam in his original state before the fall was able to perceive and indeed traffic in the dimensional totality of created order, which means that he could freely converse with his older brothers, that he could freely interact in the household of God, God, with the brothers and the servants. He was created for fellowship. And so Adam had, was equipped as a human being with, I, I believe, all kinds of, of remarkable abilities, maybe some abilities that we attribute today to our comic book superheroes. You know, I'm not saying that he was flying around in a cape and he had lasers coming out of his eyes, but, but certainly, you know, certainly if you were to cut Adam's hand and you were to cut my hand with a knife, Adam's hand would probably regenerate very quickly. Mine would take weeks. His probably would regenerate even after the fall. Okay? That's what I'm talking about. The machinery of our biology would have been performing at peak level or near peak level in the antediluvian age. Okay? And now it's all clunked down, and, uh, uh, it's all, it's all, you know, it's, it's degraded, and, and, and you might envision, you know, the gears that are all rusted and, and, and just very, the whole mechanism is clunky and old. That's us. Okay? So I wanted to lay all that before we talk about this idea of hyperspace in a hyperspatial universe in which, and by the way, hyperspace is simply a, a, a dimension of the world that we cannot see, we can't perceive. It's not a separate universe. I think a lot of people confuse this, that an additional dimension to the fabric of our reality is not a, um, I'm trying to think of the, the, the, the technical terminology for it, it's not a separate world, it's not an alternate universe.

Right, a square and a cube exist in the same universe, but they're of different dimensions, right?

Exactly! That's, that, you said it much more eloquently. Exactly. And so that's what we're talking about when we're talking about hyperspaces. So we're talking about spaces that, that extradimensional spaces. They're, it's not like going through a wardrobe and entering the land of Narnia. That's different. That's...

An alternate universe? Yeah, it's more like, and I use this as an example in the book, it's more like an extra-spatial environment that into which your soul resides, for example. So, it's an environment that we're already inhabiting. I make this case in my book, but one that we cannot perceive because of our cataracts, our perceptual cataracts, because of the Fall. We can't perceive it, even though we're inhabiting it. And that is a distinct concept from this idea of multiple multi-dimensions or or or Al Al alternative universes. Those are those are other ideas.

And so, I believe, um, that there are hyper-dimensions, that there are extra-spatial environments enveloped in that are naturally a part of, uh, nature. And the problem isn't that we can't access them so much. The problem is more that we can't perceive them. That's the problem. Um, because our consciousness, our souls reside somewhere, and I don't think it's in our gray brain matter, and I don't think it's in our spleen or our or our or or any of our organs or intestines or something like that. I think the so-soul, the consciousness resides in an extra-spatial compartment, a seat for the soul that that is part and parcel with human biology, an appendage, if you will, a a a hyper-dimensional appendage that is part of our biology, is created as the seat, um, to house our soul. And it is into that compartment that I believe that demonic entities intrude. Yeah, and that that's something that that's come up in in my work as well, uh, especially when I was writing, uh, book *Afterlife*, because this this notion of the soul and the spirit came up. And I'm curious what you, you, you think about this. Well, actually, I kind of already know because you wrote about it. But, but, uh, do we as human beings actually have an extra-dimensional quality to us then? Are are we actually cubes thinking that we're just squares?

Yes, I believe so. I believe so. I think that's that's a great way to put it, actually, Josh. That's that's a really great way to simplify that concept. It's a brilliant way to think about it, absolutely. And I think that's it's part of our problem. It's part of our perceptual cataracts, right? Remember that after the resurrection, we're going to see Christ as he is and be seen by him, right? So all of this is going to be rectified at the resurrection. Our eyes, imagine that moment for us who believe in Christ, who who continue in our faith until the end, and who who, um, who are a part of the resurrection. We're resurrected to new life again. We're not resurrected to become some other kind of creature. We're not resurrected to be, you know, ethereal beings. We know exactly what we're going to be at the resurrection. How do we know? Because we have the resurrected Christ, who is a who is a who is a a prototype of what we're going to be. I mean, Christ is the example of what we're going to be. We're going to be like him. And the apostles make this vividly clear in the in the in the New Testament. We are going to be like him, you know? And you have Christ who resur, who rise, who rises from the grave. He is resurrected. He is the first fruits of of of of of many brethren, of many others, us, and and all of those who would believe in him, and all of those before him, the the Patriarchs and the and the prophets and and and and the men of faith who who died before Christ, before Christ redeemed us on the cross. And so Christ appears to his apostles in who were who were gathered together in the in in in a home, in a house. He appears to them out of nowhere. Boom! He just appears. Like he walks through the wall, right? So here's Christ again. This is going to be us at the resurrection. That's all we have to look at it. After the resurrection, Christ walks through the wall, or or appears in their midst, and they're freaked out because, you know, they think he's a ghost. What does he say to them? "Immediately, touch me, touch me. See that, see that I have flesh and bone." Jesus wasn't a fantasm. He wasn't a spectre. You know what he was? He was a human being. He had flesh and bone. And they touched him. He had flesh and bone. And then, and then to further, uh, validate his corporal reality, that he's got a physical human body, he says to them, "This is intriguing to me. Do you have something to eat?" And he didn't say that because he was hungry. He said it because he was going to further prove to them that he was like them. He was a human being. They gave him some bread and some fish, and he, and, and it says in the scriptures that he ate it in front of them. He ate it in their midst. So they're watching here. Jesus walks through the wall, post-resurrection, walks through the wall. They're freaking out. They think he's a ghost. Then they touch him, and they can even see the marks in his hands where the where the nails were, or in his wrists, wherever it was. And they can see that, they can see that the markings of the crucifixion. So apparently, Jesus has scars. And then he, he sits down and eats bread and fish in front of them, chews on it, eats it, swallows it, right in front of them, for the express purpose to demonstrate to them that he is the second Adam. He's not a different creature. Now, he's not, he's not an ethereal being. He is the rectification of the human condition. And he's eating and drinking, and he's got, he's got flesh and blood, but yet he walks through a wall. So you have to put that whole picture together. And when you put that whole picture together, you realize that human beings were created to be a lot more spectacular than we are right now. And that we not only could perceive these extra-spatial environments, but like I said, we could traffic in them, like Christ. And so the resurrected Christ. And so, um, the point is that that exactly as you said it, we, we don't realize the full spectrum of, uh, the dimensional totality that is encompassing us, in which we are a part. It's not a separate world. It's not a separate reality. There's not a world for angels and and demons, and then a world for us. We all are inhabiting the same world, the same universe, and and the and the laws that govern it, the laws that are governing all everything, um, that were established from the beginning of time.

Yeah, I mean, that's the way I see it too. And it, it was really interesting reading that chapter, just how, you know, I, I took it as confirmation because totally independent of of me, you, you came to these conclusions on your own. I mean, you were in another country, you know, living in the jungle for a while and everything. And so to me, that was confirmation that, you know, we, we're on the right track because I, I came to similar conclusions as well. And it, it's mind-blowing to think about that at some point in our future, when we're passed on from this world by rapture or death, you know, whatever, whatever comes first, um, that we're gonna look back, it's going to make sense, you know, then. And we'll be able to look back and say, man, that's weird that we didn't, we didn't get it, you know? And we are going to see ourselves as as Plato's prisoners chained up in the cave, viewing the viewing the world, the universe, as shadows on a wall. That's how we're going to see ourselves.

Amen. I can't wait. That's what we are. That's what we are right now. We are condemned to see the world in shadows because of the Fall. Well, I cannot wait to be unchanged. Before we, uh, hopefully, before that happens, though, we have to talk about the, the, the existence of, of, well, just existence before creation, before physical creation that we think of, uh, in terms of Genesis one. There's a, there's a lot to talk about here. You definitely want to do this because this is where I'm going to reveal whether or not whether I am Timothy Alberino or his, or in fact, his twin, Anthony Alberino. I gotta, I gotta meet your brother because I keep forgetting that you're a twin. I keep forgetting that about you. The only weird thing that I know about you is you put honey in your coffee. Like, how un-American can you be? Not anymore. I don't. You finally quit? Well, we got to talk about that in the, uh, uh, I've been praying for you, brother. The book explains that. Yeah, I, I, it must be one I haven't gotten to yet. You know, I've been praying that you would finally overcome that addiction. And then the Lord has delivered you. Let's jump right back into this. So, um, you, you after chapter two, you talk about, uh, Genesis, how this all started. And it's, it's interesting because this is one of those things for me that every time, you know, someone brings it up, like, you know, Gap Theory, we have all these different theories about things. Whenever somebody brings it up, I think, okay, I can probably predict, you know, within the first few words, what position this person holds. Um, but you actually, actually were able to bring out some things that, uh, that that that I thought was really unique and really true to the text, too. So some of it overlaps with David Flynn's work, which is just absolutely amazing. But you brought out some interesting things, too. So, how did this whole thing start? When we talk about Genesis, what actually are we talking about? God made a perfect creation, then an enemy developed and rebelled against God. And this might be evidenced by the existence of an asteroid belt, somehow. How do all these things connect? And, what, what lines do we get from the first couple of verses of Genesis? What, what things can we actually find in there?

I come from the perspective that man was not created with the universe. He was created into the universe, not with it. Into the world, not with it. Uh, whereas a lot of Christians come from the the opposite perspective, that man was brought into existence with the universe. And so man's origin, his existence is, um, was a part of that original creation. And that that that is born, I believe, and I, I explained this in the book, but that is born of, I believe, of of what is called the anthropocentric perspective. And the the the anthropocentric perspective, anthropocentric meaning man-centered, um, the the human-centered perspective of the of the of the universe. It it places man at the center of all things, like the hub, like the hub in the wheel. And so a lot of Christians read the scriptures through an anthropocentric perspective. And so they cannot imagine a scenario in which in which man is not at the center of what's happening. And so born from that perspective, I believe, is the notion that man was created with the Earth. Um, but I don't, I don't hold to an anthropocentric perspective. And I don't believe that an anthropocentric perspective is biblical. I believe clearly the scriptures present what's called a a christocentric perspective. That Christ is the center of all things, not man. In other words, the Son of God is the center of the universe. He's the hub of the wheel, not us. When you begin to contemplate the universe from a from a christocentric perspective, you can liberate your mind from from certain constraints that are necessary within the anthropocentric perspective, actually a lot of constraints. And once you, once you, once you shift your focus and you realize that that everything revolves around the Son of God, everything. And that's not Tim Alberino theology. That's the disciples. That's the apostles theology that they clearly articulate in the New Testament. They say several, several apostles, um, make it explicitly clear that Christ is the center of all things, that God, that the universe was created, all things seen and unseen, visible and invisible, were created by Him and through Him and for Him and in Him, all things con Jesus talking about Jesus, the Son of God. So there's your christocentric perspective right there. Everything was created by Him and through Him. And these are all different dynamics, by the way, by Him, through Him, and for Him. The universe wasn't created for us. The Earth wasn't created for us. We weren't even created for us. Everything was created for Him. That is the biblical, the correct biblical perspective. Man is not the center of the universe. We are not the first, and we are not the bright, the best and the brightest in terms of our biological composition, let's say. I believe that mankind showed up not at the beginning of the timeline, but somewhere along the timeline, of all history known and unknown. And I believe that the beginning of that timeline is a way before the sixth day creation of mankind. And I think that this is this is clear in the Bible. I mean, um, if the sons of God shouted for joy when Earth was created, then obviously they existed before us. Why in the world would we think that they only existed what, moments before us? So, so the sons of God were created, and then suddenly they start shouting for joy when they see the Earth get created. That's nonsensical. It's nonsensical. I think what we have here are the contours of a very, very deep and unknown, unsung history, unsung past. We know nothing about it. The Bible, I believe, hints to it. And I don't believe that there is a pamic controversy. I think I think that a pamic reality is assumed, is presumed in the narrative of, in the biblical narrative. And I find it to be a very strange thing that we try and cram everything into to fit into a time period in which we're around, right? That that and that makes us the center of all things and the purpose of all things. And and it's just not the correct perspective. And and you can unchain yourself, um, from that perspective by simply focusing instead of on Adam and mankind as the primary protagonist in the scriptures, and instead understanding it's not, not us, it's Jesus, it's Christ, it's the Son of God. He is the center of all things. He's the why. He, he, he answers every question. That's why I call Jesus the singularity in my book. He is the singularity. Uh, he's the Big Bang. Jesus is the Big Bang. I mean, that's the way that the Bible describes him, uh, both Paul, John, that Jesus is, he is the, he is the, for those who don't know, the, what's called the initial singularity in, in, in, um, Big Bang cosmology, the initial singularity is that is that infinite point, that point of of infinite density and mass and and and so forth and energy that that that exploded and that's how we get everything that we have, which is of course absurd. The details of the of the the particulars of that theory are absurd. The concept is actually biblical because there is a singularity. There is a singular point from which all things are created and indeed in which all things consist, and that is the Son of God. He is the singularity. He is the Big Bang. And so, um, and so I, that's my perspective when I look at the scriptures. I start from there. Christ is the center of all things. And then I work my way forward. And when you begin again to contemplate this idea of the family, there's a family. There's a Son of God, and then there's the sons of God. And that there's the older sons of God, and then there's the younger sons of God. Well, you know, the fact that there's an older brother, how come, you know, if, if Jesus didn't want to convey this idea of an older brother, he could have said they, they were they were twin brothers, or not even say that one was older and one was. They're just brothers. And but in reality, there is an older brother. And that that infers the passage of time. It's just these are just logical deductions. And people, people get all up in arms, and I don't understand why. You know, if you got a different opinion about the so-called Gap Theory, so what? You know, for me, you anchor yourself on the gospel of Christ. That's the anchor. You don't squabble about, uh, the pre-adamic age or Flat Earth or or some other, uh, or some other issue that that is not central to the gospel. Neither of those things are central to the gospel, by the way. Um, the gospel doesn't, doesn't stand or fall on the age of the Earth, and it doesn't stand or fall on the shape of the Earth, right? That's not the crux of the gospel. The crux of the gospel is the redemption, the reconciliation, and the restoration of Adam. That's the crux of the gospel in Christ. Uh, and, and to make it anything else is is is a bastardization of the gospel. So, um, so from my perspective, it's very clear. It's, it's, it's abundantly evident to me that there are, there's a whole lot of time behind Adam. And why shouldn't there be? Why shouldn't there be? And so, um, and I think that that that that there was in fact a massive conflict in the cosmos and in the, in, in the solar system, in fact, in this solar system, there's a massive conflict. And the Bible hints at this conflict. And you, you alluded to an asteroid belt. And David Flynn is the one who really got me thinking about this. And David is, his book is really what what kind of pulled a lot of this stuff together for me, *The Secret Chronicles of Mara Sidonia*. And there's, I believe that this, there was a planet between Mars and Jupiter, which is now the asteroid belt. And in the Bible designates this planet, I believe, as Rahab. And I don't just, you know, say that in passing. I actually, I think I demonstrate that, and at least I, I, I think I present a very strong case that that is in fact what it's talking about. And it's building on the case that that, uh, Flynn and others, uh, had laid before me. I just sort of expound on on on on on some of that. And so I do believe that there was a massive conflict. That this conflict, um, it, there was a, there was, and when I say conflict, I'm talking about kinetic war. There was a kinetic war in the universe. And it was a war between the kingdom of heaven and and the insurgency, this insurgent faction that broke off and began to have conflict with the kingdom. And it erupted in a in a galactic battle, or a series of galactic battles. And I think in in the midst of these battles, a consequence of of this conflict, Rahab exploded. And the explosion of Rahab reaped unimaginable destruction in the solar system, unimaginable destruction, laid waste, um, uh, all of the kingdoms of of of of of that the pre-adamic age. And and when I, I use the word pre-adamic because it's, it's a very apt explanation. There were no humans. It's pre us. So it's a very good, it's a very good term. It's pre-Adam. And and again, I don't see what the controversy is. I really don't. You know, I, I, I fail to see the controversy. And it's the same in with this argument of how old the Earth is, right? Why should that be a controversy? If you think the Earth is young, fine. If you think the Earth is old, fine. But don't go accusing people of being heretics or not believing the Bible because they take one stance or the other. Uh, that's divisive and it's foolish. And those are the kind of things that you'll answer for in, you know, at the end of the day, you're gonna answer for how you treat your brothers more than anything else. Um, and, uh, that was the commandment of Christ, that you would love one another. Now, that doesn't mean that you can't disagree. You can disagree, but you disagree, uh, in an appropriate way, not accusing each other of essentially of treason, right? So, um, so the age of the Earth is is is is really inconsequential to the gospel. But it's intriguing to me because it, it, it really, um, helps me to contemplate this this vast universe of time and history that is behind us, way behind us. And understand that that any civilization that was inhabiting the Earth before Adam, or Mars, or Venus, or any of these other planets would have melted like wax, it says in various places. And in some of those places, it's referring to Rahab. And this, and so there's a connection with Rahab. And there's a connection to to conflict. Okay, the mountains, they melted like wax. And that, you know, to to melt rock like wax, that's extreme heat. And it's, and it's the kind of heat you might expect if a planet explodes, right? And there's this massive, we can't comprehend that big of an, I mean, you know, in Star Wars, the Death Star blows up a planet, and you know, it's not like that. It's way more devastating than anything we could even depict. We can't even comprehend the the the the destruction that something like that would would reap in the solar system. You know, it might have all of the planets in our solar system, by the way, might have all been situated in the so-called Goldilocks Zone. And then boom, when that planet exploded, they were flung out, pushed apart. Maybe, maybe that's one possibility. There's many possibilities, um, regarding the position of the planet. So, and just us talking about planets and the Earth and so forth is going to get a lot of people ticked off, right? Because that's the way it is in in 2020.

Well, and it's interesting too, because the placement of the planets and how some of them, uh, spin the opposite way. I mean, you know, an explosion like that would help explain some of those strange things. There is no pre-adamic controversy as far as I'm concerned, right? I think it's inferred. I think it's I think it's assumed in the narrative of scripture. And by the way, in scriptures regarding Rahab, he stills the raging sea, stilling and calming the raging sea over and over and over, that Yahweh, you know, still stills and calms the sea. And this is why people think that Yahweh is a, that Yahweh was a, a god of storms or god of the sea, right? Because he's always stilling and calming the sea, right? I don't think that's what, what, what the Bible is telling us that God is, that Yahweh is, you know, was depicted as a god of storms or whatever. I think that stilling and calming the sea, I think is a clear, um, uh, metaphor for for stilling and quelling insurrection, right? And I think that's clear. When I say insurrection, I'm talking about rebellion. He stills the sea, you know, he put down the rebellion. When its waves rise, you still them. You shattered Rahab. You pierced the dragon. You shattered Rahab like a clay vessel. And, you know, this is the, these are, these are martial expressions. These are this is kinetic war. You know, this isn't like spiritual war. Again, I, I, I kind of talk about that in the book too, because it kind of irritates me. People talk about spiritual war like it's something else. No, no, no. Kinetic war. Armageddon is a kinetic war. Armageddon is a kinetic war. And the, and the, and the conflict that happened in the pre-adamic past was a kinetic war, the likes of which we can't imagine. You know, you have, and I'm getting ahead of you, but you have, you know, you have in the Bible, you have Jesus depicted, the Son of God depicted marching on the field of Edom, a great warrior, a warrior king who's who's who's putting down the insurrection and slaying his foes, right? And, and this victorious king who's marching against his enemies. And then you have the depiction of Jesus returning, you know, at Armageddon, his robe is dipped in blood. And once again, it's this idea that he's coming back, he's marching on the battlefield to make war with his enemies. This is not a war of just prayers and spiritual warfare or something like that. This is kinetic war, military armaments and and armies. And I don't think, by the way, that those, uh, that the soldiers that are returning with Christ are riding horses. So, you know, I, I just, I have a different view, you know, I, I, I have a, people can take it or leave it. Um, people can can can think it's great or they or they can, you know, they can call me any name they want. But the, the point is that from, from start to finish, the, the, the true narrative of of of my book, if you want to ask me, what is your book about? My book is about the gospel of Christ. That's what my book is about from start to finish. And, and I think that becomes abundantly clear when you get to the last chapter.

Amen. I, I absolutely agree. I, I think that's a great place to to, uh, wrap up part one here for this series. Um, but before before we go, where can people get your book? Where can people follow you online?

People can get my book on Amazon. It's currently the only place that's available. Um, they can, they can follow me on my website, TimothyAlberino.com. I have a, I have a mailing list. For those of you who are going over to TimothyAlberino.com and looking for my mailing list, I, I got to, I got to fix my website. I'm going to be updating it here in a week. The mailing list is all the way down at the bottom by the contact, uh, by the by the contact form. So if you're looking for the mailing list, that's where it is. The best way to follow me right now is a mailing list. I'm probably going to start a Rumble account at some point. I'm on Parler. I have haven't posted anything on Parler yet. I'm on Twitter. Probably going to migrate from Twitter and YouTube eventually over to Parler and Rumble, um, or just stay on, probably do what you're doing, stay on those platforms as long as as I can before they kick me off, and then just, and then just set up shop over there at Parler and Rumble.

Yeah, definitely. That's what I've been doing. I have accounts on all of those. And while I'm learning those, I'm still dealing with the other ones. Um, but yeah, Rumble. Rumble is confusing to me. All of my videos just say analyze like forever. It's just always analyzing. So I have no idea what that's about. Do, do you have any, uh, before we wrap up, do you have any final, uh, words for to, you know, close out section one? Any last thoughts? Um, what would you want most for the audience to take away from what we talked about with these first, uh, four chapters in this, in the beginning of this conversation? And, you know, maybe next time we can talk about Eden. I have some very interesting thoughts on Eden and, and also the birthright, this idea of the birthright, the conferral of the birthright, and all that, because it plays into, it's the theme of the book. And again, it's part, part with the gospel. Um, so I just, this very first talk that we're having here, I think I would like people to walk away, U, with the understanding that Adam was supposed to be a part of the family. He was created to be a son of God. He was a son in the father's house with all the rights and privileges of his estate. And, and because of sin, fellowship was broken. And that is the reconciliation. See, Christ redeems us first because he redeems us from the condemnation with the dragon, which I talk about in the book. He redeems us with his blood. But it doesn't stop there. See, because the redemption happens in order that we might be reconciled to the father and to the family. Because right now, we're enemies of God because of sin. And because of, and we're condemned because of sin. And we're enemies of God. Um, but, but through the cross, through the redemption, we're purchased back for God so that we can be reconciled back to Him, brought back into the family. It's Christ who leads us home, by the way. And, and what is, by the way, I'll end with this. Remember we talked about the prodigal son? Jesus, Jesus, he evokes the prodigal son on the eve of his crucifixion. Most people miss this. When he tells his disciples that he's going to be leaving for a while and they're not going to be able to follow him, and they say, "Where are you going?" and "Why can't we follow him?" He said, he said that he's going to his father's house. And where he's going, you, you can't yet follow. And he said, "In my father's house are many rooms, and I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I'm going to prepare a place for you, I will come back to get you so that you might be with me where I am." What is that? That's the prodigal son. So now we know how the prodigal son gets home. Jesus brings the prodigal son home to the father's house. Jesus brings us home to the father's house. He's going to prepare our place, the place of Adam in the father's house, and then he's coming to get us to bring us back into the family, to reconcile us to the father. And so you have the redemption at the cross, you have the, you have the reconciliation in Christ, and then you have the family at the resurrection, and you have the restoration of all that was lost because of sin. That is, there's, I don't care, there's no story that anybody in Hollywood, any author has ever written that's better than that.

Yeah, that's absolutely right. And any of the good ones, any of the really good ones, is really just the retelling of that story anyway. I mean, you, you can go and look at any movie that's been like that that everybody agrees is like, really good, really classic, you know, a work of beauty, and it's always because it mirrors that same story. It is the, the original story, the that all stories are based on. Jesus is the hero of humanity, and he's the original hero, and he's the greatest hero humanity has ever known. And that's in a nutshell, that's what my book's about, I mean, really, right there. So, so people, I think, should go back and reread the prodigal son and start to look at it as that's Adam, and he's going home, and he's embraced. And we know he's embraced. Why is he embraced by the father? And then new robes are put on him. That's the righteousness of Christ that covers us. So we're being received back into the family because of Christ. And, and that's a beautiful thing. I mean, that is, that's the hope of the believer. The resurrection is our hope. The resurrection, not, not, not, um, escaping the tribulation or something like that. That's not my hope because I'm going to die anyway, right? And if I was in China right now, you know, being persecuted by the by the CCP, then, you know, the rapture and all that is pretty much inconsequential to me because I'm already being persecuted. But the hope of the believer, no matter who you are, no matter where you are, no matter what circumstances you're born into, we all have the same hope. And it is not, it is not in our life. It is after our death. Not that we're just going to go to heaven. No, we're going to be resurrected. We're going to, that the resurrection, through the resurrection, through Christ, all that was lost in Adam is going to be restored to us. That's our inheritance. And by the way, it's not heaven isn't our birthright. The Earth is our birthright. And that's why everything comes here. And at the end of the, at the end of the book, I mean, that's the end of the book now. The habitation of of God is with men. End of story.

Amen. I, I certainly can't wait for that day. It's, it's going to be amazing. And, uh, look forward to seeing you there. Thank you so much for, um, being on the show, Tim. It's, it's been far too long, but, uh, totally understand why. And I'm glad that you put as much work as you did into this book. I, I really do think that it's groundbreaking. I, I think that this is going to be one of the, one of the classics, kind of, of our, of our age. So thank you for putting the book together. Thank you for agreeing to do this series. And thank you for, uh, being on on this, uh, this, this first part of the, the interview.

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Timothy Alberino, welcome back to the show. How are you doing?

Doing well. Thanks for having me back.

Yeah, absolutely. Uh, so part two, uh, for those who might have missed us last time, in just a few sentences, can you give us a quick rundown of what we discussed last time in part one?

Last time, I think we started talking about the parable of the prodigal son and, and, and this idea that mankind was created, um, for a purpose, not created and then given a purpose. And, and that his purpose was, um, fellowship with God in the family of God, fellowship in the household of the father. And also to, uh, to have dominion on the Earth, to govern the Earth as regent of planet Earth. And I think that's what most of our conversation revolved through.

Yeah, definitely. So for those of you, if you have not seen part one, don't worry, you're going to be able to understand this just fine. Uh, but this is part two. There is, there is a first part to the interview. You should go and, uh, check that out, of course. Best place to go is dailyrenegade.com because then you can get the full episode. So where we left off last time, we were talking about, like you said, the purpose of man, that, that the purpose that we were created for. And, uh, this time, let's get into the actual location, Eden. So in *Birthright*, you do an excellent job of explaining the place and original, uh, plan of creation. And you actually say in the book, quote, "Far from a trivial Sunday school anecdote, the Garden of Eden is a profound allegory pertaining to the transcendent patrimony and purpose of mankind." Beautifully written. Can you explain that?

Yeah, I think that the Garden of Eden is, uh, like a lot of the ancient writings, um, the the story of the Garden of Eden is meant to encapsulate information. It's it's not meant to be read literally, uh, in my opinion. And I think there are some, obviously, some, you know, it does constitute to some degree, um, an element of history. But obviously, there was a, I believe in Adam and Eve. I believe Adam was the first man and Eve the first woman. And, and, um, but the, but the narrative, the way that the story of the Garden of Eden is written, is is very interesting. It's very esoteric, and esoteric by design. And people sometimes don't like to hear that, but it doesn't matter. I mean, if you read the Bible, much of the Bible is prophecy. And prophecy, by design, by nature, is esoteric. That's what prophecy is. An oracle is is by design esoteric. Uh, and so, uh, it has to be unpacked. It has to be understood. It has to be, um, contemplated and understood in a particular context. And I think that that is the way that the Garden of Eden story is written. Um, it presents us with some key details. And, um, we're given, we're given an outline, an understanding of of what's happening. Um, and I think that it requires, it does in fact require some, some unpacking to truly understand what is being depicted. And that is, of course, I think, uh, this isn't, I don't think that this is a foreign concept to the people listening to us right now. I mean, um, we all know that the, most of us are aware at this point, surely most people in your audience, that that this, the snake in the garden wasn't an actual snake. It wasn't, you know, like an act, like a boa constrictor or something like that. I think most people realize that this is a bipedal, uh, entity, that this is this entity, um, that is being depicted, being represented with the figure of a snake, but is not in effect, in actuality, a snake. Um, and so right there, I mean, if you're, if you accept that idea, that notion, that the snake is not actually a snake, it's a being, then then you need to then further extrapolate the rest of the story. Because if the snake is being depicted, if I mean, if the being is being depicted, this being who I think looks looks, um, like probably blond-haired, you know, 30-something-year-old man with blue eyes and and radiant skin, and that's what I think that that being looked like, the snake in the garden, um, then then we need to then understand that other things in the story are representations, are are are iconographic and should be then interpreted rather than just read as as as literal, um, objects or characters and so forth. But again, um, I'm not saying that the story is not talking about Adam, the first man. I believe absolutely it is talking about Adam, the first man.

You talk about the concept of, uh, places of convergences of worlds, which I thought this was really interesting too, especially tying it back with our, uh, discussion of dimensions of reality and things last time. Do you, do you believe that Eden was one of these places? And do, do any of these places still exist today?

I have a very different take on on the Garden of Eden. It's hard for me to recall because it's kind of, it's, and you know, you've read it, it's very technical, technical. Yes. Um, it's hard for me to recall all the technical information that I record in the book. But my my take on the Garden of Eden is that I don't believe that the Garden of Eden was ever on Earth. And you know, again, you know, I, I have to, I have to commend, um, the work of of, uh, David Flynn, the late David Flynn, here. Because David Flynn made a statement one time that just that just really floored me. Offended me at first. And that's often what happens when your paradigm is shaken and shattered, it starts with offense. Um, and David said that he thought that the Garden of Eden might might not have been on Earth. I think he posited that it might have been on Mars, actually. David Flynn. And I was pretty shaken by that because it caused me to kind of have to let go of my, some of my Sunday school perceptions, which at this point, I'm very, very happy that I did. Because my understanding of the gospel and of the story of of of of mankind is much deeper now because I was able to let go of some of those, so what I call, what I call Sunday school perceptions. Um, and so I, I got to thinking about the Garden of Eden, what it might represent. And then the Bible tells us what it represents. It, I think it makes it pretty clear because you have three terms that are used interchangeably. I have somewhere in my book an equation to the effect that that, you know, you have Heaven equals Paradise equals Eden. Right? I think that's what the way I put it in my book. And and those are the concepts that that are ubiquitous and and are analogous, I should say, in the Bible, appear to be analogous, in fact. Um, and I would add, I would add another one, the Father's House. Again, reminding people that Jesus said, "In my Father's house are many rooms." So you have these, the Father's House, you have Heaven, you have Paradise, and you have Eden. So either these are all distinct places, or they're all the same place. I believe they're all the same place. These are all the same place. We're talking about the Father's House, where the Father dwells. Um, and so was the Father's House, is Paradise on Earth? Because Eden and Paradise are used interchangeably in several places in the in the scriptures, okay? And in the extra-biblical texts. So Eden and Paradise are the same thing. Is Paradise in Heaven the same thing? I think so. I think so. So you have, you have to start to wonder if, if Heaven is Paradise is Eden, then how could Eden have been on Earth? How could Eden have been on Earth? Are we saying then that the paradise of God is on Earth? No, I think that's evident. It's not, it's not on Earth. Never was, okay? So why does the Bible give us a, apparently, why does the Bible appear to give us, uh, coordinates, um, landmarks for the Garden of Eden? This is, of course, what people used to to make the claim that Eden was obviously a place on Earth. It had a physical location, an address on Earth, because it talks about four rivers and it talks about, you know, the gold in that land is good and so forth. But I think that what's being communicated is something much more profound than a physical address on Earth. I think there is a physical address, but I don't think it's it's to Paradise itself. I think the physical address is to the gate of Eden, the gate that leads to Paradise. And, you know, what you would consider, what you might consider a Stargate. Um, and so I, I talk about this concept that's known as an axis mundi. You know, before people go accusing me of being a New Age person or something like that, the concept of an axis mundi, of an axis mundi, it's just another way of saying a Stargate or a portal. Um, but the axis mundi is is is a very, very ancient concept, very ancient. I think probably as ancient as the story of Eden itself. And an axis mundi is is a is a place of of convergence. It's the place where the cosmic waters converge. And this idea of the cosmic waters is a Mesopotamian concept. That the Canaanites and then and then going all the way back to the Sumerians, they have this concept that there was a location, a a a very specific location on Earth, or several, but but definitely one in the Middle East, in in, uh, in in Mesopotamia, very specific location where the cosmic waters converged. And it was in at this place where they converged that you could gain access to other realms. Again, what we would call in in this in modern parlance, sci-fi parlance, what we would call a Stargate, right? A gateway into a gateway that gives access into multiple realms. And, and, and I, I use this illustration in my book. Those who are familiar with the Chronicles of Narnia will recall in *The Magician's Nephew*, Digory and Polly are the two protagonists, and they put on these rings that their these rings that their uncle had fabricated, had manufactured, and these rings would allow them to access an axis mundi. For those familiar with the story, the Wood Between the Worlds was a serene, tranquil place. It wasn't necessarily a world and itself. It was a place. It was it was an in-between place. It was a place between the worlds. And you could access these other realms, not other dimensions, other realms within the universe, um, if you had this ring on. And you, and you could access the the realms through pools of water on the ground. For those again, who who've read the book, this this is going to be very familiar to them. So, uh, so Digory and Polly, to get into these other realms, they would jump into the the pools of water. And interestingly enough, one of the realms that they visit, um, that that ends up being the source of a lot of problems in Narnia later on, I can't remember the name, I don't know if you remember it, Josh, but one of them, um, was an evil realm. It was a realm that was destroyed. Remember? It was destroyed. It was laid waste. And they, and they, it was just totally laid waste. And they, they went into this building, and long story short, there were these like, uh, kings and queens that were kind of frozen, like like were stone, right? Stone statues sitting on thrones. And they ended up somehow, I don't even remember how they ended up like unfreezing one of them, which was which ended up being the White Witch, whatever her name was in the in the books. I can't remember her name. And she ended up following them back into to to into Narnia, right?

And so, um, which is, I think, is a, I think, by the way, I think that Tolkien, I mentioned Tolkien last. I think Tolkien and Lewis, uh, uh, were thinking along a lot of the same lines here. That, oh, definitely no surprise that I would pick some of this stuff up because I was a huge fan of, first Lewis, and then Tolkien, growing up. And probably a lot of people listening to this were too, before the movies and all of that. And, you know, so, so it, anyway, I think that what I was about to say was that I think that was a little bit, again, as a little bit of a, of a wink from, from C.S. Lewis, concerning Mars, this place that the, that the, uh, that the W-, that the White Witch came from, right? That was laid waste, that was desolate, desolate and empty, and laid waste to, to bohu, so to speak. And, and this, and this, this, this, uh, enemy of Narnia ends up coming into Narnia through a portal and so forth. And people can, can go back and play with those ideas and, and, and, you know, go back to the, the, the *Magician's Nephew* and, and, and remind themselves of that scenario.

So, back to the Axis Mundi. The Axis Mundi, that, that's an illustration of, of, of how an A.M. might work. It's a place between the worlds. It's a gateway that gives you access to different, different realms. And the, an Axis Mundi is often represented all across the Earth, by the way. It's, this is ubiquitous across the Earth. It's a un-, un-, universal representation, usually represented as a tree, as a world tree, right? And people have seen this representation of a world tree. Sometimes it's in a circular formation, and it's of the branches are reaching to the heaven, uh, to the heavens, the trunk is fixated on the earth, is fixed on the earth, and then, of course, the, the roots go down under the Earth. And so what that represents is this three-tiered cosmology. And it's not a literal cosmology, by the way. It's just a three-tier depiction of, it's like you were saying the other day, that, you know, a circle within a square or something like that. It's, it's us understanding a very complex thing in a very simplistic way. So you have the tree, and, and you have the branches reaching up to the heavens, which represents the, the heavenly realm. Then you have the, the trunk of the tree, which represents the earthly realm. And then you have the, the roots of the tree, which represents the underworld. And this three-tier cosmology is all over the place. I mean, it's in the Inca had this, this, uh, this three-tier cosmology that was, it's represented all, all over Peru and, and all over what was the Incan Empire. And lots of different symbols. And, and they called this the, the, the Hanan Pacha, which was the, the realm above. And then you have the, the Uku Pacha, the underworld. And then the Kay Pacha, which is the, the, the surface of the Earth. So you got the Hanan Pacha, the Kay Pacha, and the Uku Pacha, the heavens, the earth, and the underworld, right?

So, this is the idea. And the reason why I'm going through this long explanation is to say again, that the Mesopotamians believed that there is a place where the waters converge, these realms, these, where the, where the cosmic waters converge, where you can have access to these realms. Very, very interesting. This connection here with C.S. Lewis and the Wood Between the Worlds, where the realms were connected by pools of water. So it's kind of this Mesopotamian idea. And that this, this particular place that the Mesopotamians believed that this Stargate was, happens to be on the summit of Mount Hermon. And so, uh, so Hermon was where the, the cosmic waters converged, right? So, um, and, and so, long story short, I believe that the Gate to Eden was on the summit of Hermon. I know automatically there's going to be people who, uh, listen to that and they're only going to pick out the one, a, one literalistic kind of interpretation and say, "Well, see, Tim, Tim's saying that Eden was on Mars, and God is an alien," and, you know, all this ridiculous stuff because people are going to do that. But, but that's kind of forcing another literal interpretation on onto what you just said, which, which you're not taking a literal interpretation. And like you said, much like in C.S. Lewis's book, um, this is, this is kind of a, a place that, that leads into other, other places. Uh, so to me, I don't believe that Eden is on Mars, right? Uh, I believe that Eden is in parad-, Eden is Paradise. And I believe that that gate that Adam had access to Paradise before the gates were shut. And we know that the gates were shut. And we know that there were Cher-, Cher-, uh, um, cherubim placed in front of the gates to, to guard the way to the Tree of Life, to, to guard, to shut out access to paradise. And I don't believe that those beings are gu-, are guarding, uh, the, the Tree of Life, um, the, the accessway, the gateway to the Tree of Life, simply are there to, they're not simply there to prohibit human beings from accessing the Tree of Life. I think they're also there guarding the gateway from the members of the insurgency from entering paradise and having access. Uh, and, you know, so, no, I don't believe that, uh, I do not believe that Eden is, is on Mars. Um, I don't believe that paradise is on Mars. I, I don't know where paradise is, but it's somewhere, right? It's got locality, it's got to be somewhere. Um, so I, and, and, and by the way, um, the Axis Mundi is representing, often times, it's, it's, it's also represented by the convergence of the four cardinal, of the four cardinal directions, north, south, east, west. Is that why we get the four, the four rivers in Genesis? Exactly. So it's, it's the intersection point between the four cardinal directions. That's, that's one of the symbols of the Axis Mundi. And what do we have in the, in the description of Eden? We have four rivers that converge. And by the way, we know that these rivers are converging, the, the, according to the, the, um, description given in the Book of Genesis, at a high place, why? Because they flow down into the land, surrounding land. And so we're, we're being given information here that I think needs to be unpacked. And, and so you have the, the convergence of four rivers, again, water converging, the Mesopotamian idea of the waters of the, of the waters converging, um, giving way to this, this, this Axis Mundi. And then it was on the top of Hermon, of course, where the gods were thought to have hold, to, to have held courts. And so this was a place where, where, where the gods would be in repose, holding court. And, and it was a place where you could have access to the gods, where man at one time had interaction with the gods. Mount Olympus, remember, with the Greeks. And then you have Mount Meru, and you have all these different ideas of, of access to the gods on the top of a mountain. This is why we have the step pyramids. This is why we have the ziggurat. This is why we have the, the, these, these, these different pyramidal structures around the Earth that are representations of man-, mankind having access to the gods. That access was obviously, it's a, it's a recollection of Adam, in my opinion. It's a recollection of where we began. And, um, so obviously it was paganized. And I'm not saying that the ziggurats and stuff and that the Mesopotamian gods are the gods that Adam was interacting with. Um, so people, you know, don't need to hear what I'm not saying. I'm talking about Adam walking in the cool of the day with the Maker. Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah.

And it's, it's interesting too, because you mentioned the Tree of Life, and in the book, you talk about the two trees in the garden. What do those represent? Do you, do you believe that the, the trees and the sin of eating the fruit are literal, metaphorical, uh, maybe both? How do you interpret the trees, the fruit, and the actual sin that took place? I don't know if there were lit-, literal trees or literal fruit. They're very well may have been. I don't know. Um, but I do know that the Tree of Life is representative of Christ, of, of Jesus. And, and that's apparent in the, in the Bible. And that the Tree of Knowledge, uh, is represent-, is representative of, of Satan, of the adversary. I mean, I think those are, are concepts that, that should be very familiar to Christians. Jesus is the Tree of Life. Uh, he is the way. He's the doorway back into Eden. He's the gate. You can't go to the Father, um, but through him. And so, uh, he's the one who gives us access to the Tree of Life to those who overcome. He says in the, uh, Book of Revelation, "He will give them access to eat of the, to the Tree of Life, to eat of the Tree of Life." So, um, you know, I talk about, uh, two, I don't want to get in trouble here, forgetting the, the, the, the, the technicalities of what I wrote, but, but, you know, I talk about, I, I kind of, I don't invent two words, but I invent a new way of thinking about immortality. I shouldn't say I invent it, I, I present a, a very different way to think about immortality. Um, which, uh, I talk about intrinsic and extrinsic immortality. It's very interesting when we start to contemplate immortality, because what, what exactly is immortality? And people are wondering, who are listening to this, of course, we know what immortality means, you know, you live forever. Okay, fine. But what are the, what are the intricacies here? I mean, if you have intrinsic, means something that is innate, right? Something that's inherent. So if you have an intrinsically immortal being, that's a being that was created to be immortal, that is created as an immortal being. In other words, a being that by nature of its very existence, its very creation, it is immortal. It cannot die, right? And then you have what's, what I call extrinsic immortality, um, which is an immortality that is contingent on some external factor. So external, ex-, um, extrinsic immortality would be, um, would be someone who is immortal, someone who is, who is able to live forever, be-, because they have access, for example, to, let's say, fruit from a tree, right? Right. So as soon as they no longer have access to that fruit, they start to die. That is what I call extrinsic immortality. It's contingent on the fruit of the tree. So if you shut them off from access to that fruit, they begin to die. They are not in-, inherently immortal.

And you got a quote from your book too, because this was one of the most fascinating things I think I read in that chapter, that, you know, before the Fall in the Garden of Eden, and after, and then after in the restoration in the new heavens and new earth, we, we see the Tree of Life in both of those, uh, places. And some have wondered, if we're immortal at that point, you know, why do we need a Tree of Life? But like you said, you brought up a really interesting take on Genesis 3:22, to explain this, which reads, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the Tree of Life and eat and live forever." So what did you discover about the nature of immortal beings here? Because I, I thought this really helped explain so much, not only about mankind, but about, uh, fallen angels as well. You have this very interesting scenario here in where the, the Elohim are, are saying exactly what you just said, you know, "We can't let Adam have access to the Tree of Life anymore now that he's committed this transgression. He's done something here with the, with the, this being, this, uh, evil being that's tempted him." And so now, because of this transgression, uh, he can't have access. He can't, he can't be here anymore in paradise, by the way. And remember, I think that paradise is the, is the house of God, okay? So he can't be here with us anymore, um, in this condition that he's in, this, this, this condition of sin. Um, and so, so now we need to shut him out, lest he continue to have access to, to take from the Tree of Life and eat and live forever. Have access and take, like us, basically, is what they're saying. So, um, and, and by the way, um, you know, this, this, this notion, this, this, um, this vision that I'm kind of painting here, it's not, it's not, uh, um, it's not novel. It's, this is not an idea that's, that's going to be new to your, a audience. I think Mike Heiser does a great job in, in eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, 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eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, eluci-, 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on the sign up and click sign up and and you should be good to go. So that's how people can follow me and get my book.

Excellent. What's your, what's your web address?

Timothy alo.com.

Excellent. Well, we have a lot more to talk about, uh, Fall of the Watchers, Book of Enoch, cyclopian architecture, the satanic priesthood of Cain, you know, lesser known facts about, uh, what the flood of Noah was really about, and so much more.

So we might look back to the time before the fall as, uh, as a type of golden age for us, you know. But there's another golden age, different from, uh, the time that Adam walked with God. Instead, this was a time where gods walked with men. What can you tell us about this concept of the Golden Age?

The Golden Age, universally across the Earth, um, in, in, in every, every ancient, major ancient culture on Earth. And I say major, I mean, like, there's a lot of obscure little cultures and stuff that maybe didn't have this mythology, but the, but the big cultures on Earth, uh, the primary cultures, all, um, told stories about a time when the gods dwelt among men. And those stories usually, uh, involve details regarding the gods not only dwelling among men but copulating with the daughters of men and creating demigods, hybrid demigods. And again, this is ubiquitous across the Earth. And it's well known that this, this Golden Age narrative, um, is, is mysteriously everywhere. It's universal.

And so, um, that's the way that, that's the paganized version. It's when we say gold, golden age, because the golden age is, it's, it's lauded by the ancients. It's, it's this time of great knowledge. It's this time that's, that's looked back to with longing. Um, and it, and it really is, is what the ancients were looking forward to with longing, that, that this golden age would, would, that there would be another advent of the golden age on Earth. And this is what they were secretly longing for. And not secretly, secretly. Now, the, the, uh, uh, luciferians and, and some of these secret societies are secretly longing for and working towards the, um, um, working towards the resurrection, um, the reinstitution of the golden age.

But in the ancient world, this was the time of great knowledge in their minds. It was a time before the, the great cataclysm, usually depicted as a flood. Um, but the flood encompassed everything. There was, there was a lot of vulcanism, there was a lot of seismic activity, you know, the Noahic flood. So, it's, it's depicted a little bit different in each, in each culture, but usually as a flood. And so, this was a time, this, this golden age was a time before the, the flood of Noah. Um, and again, in the pagan world, it's, it's a, it's a time, um, of, of great knowledge and peace and prosperity.

Except, except the Hebrews. They had a different account. The Hebrews almost stand alone in that they have a, they have a, their account, their reckoning of the golden age is the polar opposite. They view the golden age as an intrusion of the gods into Earth, um, into the Earth, and that, that the gods wrought corruption and chaos and bloodshed and rebellion, and that, and that it was a time of great suffering. And, and it was a time of war and unrest. The very opposite, the polar opposite of what the, of what the pagan account is. And that, uh, and it too ended in a great cataclysm. And of course, that's the flood of Noah. And it was, it was, uh, um, it ended as a result of God's wrath to bring to an end this, what I call, the Empire of the Gods.

One thing that's really interesting, you talk, uh, a lot about the Book of Enoch, and, you know, it doesn't only give us a clear picture of Genesis 6, but there's often something that's, uh, usually overlooked by others, but you go into detail about it in Birthright, the amazing prophecies of of Jesus. What, what does Enoch say about Jesus and how does it help fill in some of the context in the?

Yeah, that, that pushes us forward to, to, to the, to the, the future chapter of Jacob and Esau. But, but there's a lot. The pro, there's astounding prophecies from The Book of Enoch regarding Christ, Messianic prophecies. And The Book of Enoch opens up addressing a, a generation that would, that would live at the age. Um, you can make the argument that, that The Book of Enoch opens up addressing the generation that would be alive when the flood comes, but I think there's a dual, there's a dual interpretation there, that it's addressing, addressing both the impending flood, because it was Enoch, few generations behind Noah, and also the, the cataclysm that's coming at the end of the age.

Right, because the cataclysm that's coming at the end of the age is likened to the flood. It's, it's, it's might even be the same mechanism that caused the flood that causes the, the great cataclysm at the end of the age. It's a different conversation. Um, so, yeah, the, The Book of Enoch is, there are just incredible. I, I go into a lot of detail about The Book of Enoch, um, because I, there's a lot of controversy surrounding The Book of Enoch. But, but I, I think the Messianic, because the Messianic content is so preeminent and accurate, a lot of people assume that The Book of Enoch, that those portions of The Book of Enoch must have been written, um, in the, in the age of the Apostles or shortly thereafter.

Yeah, they say the same thing about Daniel and, and all that. If there's an accurate prophecy, it must have a later date.

Exactly. So, but I, I think that, uh, I, I'm absolutely persuaded that, and of course, there's three versions. I don't want to get bogged down and, you know, doing a whole discussion on The Book of Enoch, but there's three versions of The Book of Enoch, and only one of them is credible. And, and, you know, so, um, but anyway, there's some phenomenal Messianic content in The Book of Enoch that's undeniable. And, and it does relate to the, the, the, the, the, the events that transpired before the first cataclysm and similar events that are going to transpire before the final cataclysm at the end of the age.

The end of the age, by the way, the age in which we are now in. We are in the final age. Yeah. It began with the birth of Christ. We're in the age of Pisces. And, and when it changes to Aquarius, I believe that's the end of the age. And so, the stuff is coming, and it's coming soon. We have that great example from the ancient past, uh, of, of sort of what we can expect. And obviously, we can't, we can't bring up Enoch and not talk about the fall of the Watchers. Uh, a lot of people watching probably already, uh, know the basic story, but you bring out some other details that not everyone has heard, and, and it really shows how bad this time of history really was. What, what are some of these lesser known details about not only human DNA perversion, but also animal hybridization as well?

Yeah, I, I mentioned the, the Book of the Giants, which was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Um, it's very fragmented, so we don't really know the full story of The Book of Giants. It's kind of just highlights and adds some, some additional information into the general narrative of Genesis 6, the narrative of the, the Book of the Watchers in Enoch. And it, it, it talks about the, the Watchers not just corrupting, um, the human species, but all different kinds of animal species on Earth. And whether that corruption was through direct fornication, or whether it was through some kind of germline genetic engineering, I don't know. But I do know that the corruption of the human species was a result of fornication. There's no doubt about that.

So whether the angels then went and copulated, whether the sons of God went and copulated with the animals, and I doubt it. I think that was probably some kind of a germline, um, genetic engineering scenario. But, you know, let me, let me go back to the beginning, because one of the, the first thing that I deal with when talking about the fall of the Watchers is what I call the, and I, we mentioned this, I think, actually might have mentioned this to Derek Gilbert, but the, the fall of the Watchers began with what I call the first cause. What was the first cause of the fall of the Watchers? I think the first cause of the fall of the Watchers was, was, um, very clearly lust. They lusted after the daughters of Adam. They saw human women and they lusted after them. They were watching their Watchers, and they're looking down and seeing these, these, uh, these female counterparts of Adam, um, uh, females, um, uh, the wives of, of Adam's offspring, of his male offspring. And so, uh, they were, they were envious of the men for their wives.

So when we talk about the fall of the Watchers, we have to deal with what I call the first cause. And the first cause of the fall of the Watchers is very clearly lust. Whether people like it or not, that's what both the Book of Genesis, Genesis 6 says, and also the Book of Enoch, the account of Enoch, and other extra-biblical texts. And so, the first cause is unequivocally lust. They saw the daughters of, of Adam and they lusted after them. But that's not all that they did. They lusted after the women, but they also desired to produce their own offspring, which is very important.

So I think that there are three, um, that there are, there are three primary things that the Watchers coveted. And these were the three primary motivations of a descent of the Watchers. And I'm just going to read them right out of my book. I list them in my book. Number one is wives. Mankind was granted a special privilege that was not afforded to the sons of God, a female counterpart, a wife. The Watchers envied men for their wives. Number one. Number two, offspring. Because men had female counterparts, they could procreate offspring. The Watchers wanted to beget their own children and have families like the sons of Adam. Number three, dominion. Mankind was given dominion of planet Earth. The Watchers coveted man's dominion and plotted to usurp it by producing their own human hybrid sons. This is perhaps the most important and overlooked aspect of their transgression, and it is indeed the most important and overlooked transgression of, uh, aspect of the Watchers' transgression.

The Watchers, I believe, had this, this, they plotted to usurp Adam's dominion on Earth. How, how were they going to do it? They knew that Adam had dominion. His dominion is being enforced by the armies of the Kingdom, like we talked about earlier. So how can they usurp his dominion and, and, and basically take over the Earth without themselves stealing it from Adam? Because they're not allowed to do that. So they have to usurp the throne of Adam. And the only way that they could do that was to produce heirs to the throne that were human enough to appropriate Adam's authority and to receive the birthright of his genome. Human enough to appropriate the authority and the dominion of Adam. And that's precisely what they did.

And I think actually was pretty ingenious what they did because not only did they create hybrids who were human enough to usurp the dominion of the human race on Earth, but these hybrids also were really big. These were, these were, um, exceedingly large and powerful entities. So not only could they have the right to Adam's throne, not only could they claim the right to Adam's throne, they had the, the prowess, the ability, the power to take it by force. And that's precisely what they did. And I believe that the Watchers then created a scenario, they, they, they, they instituted what I call, again, the Empire of the Gods, a scenario in which the gods, the Watchers, were on Earth. They did not have the authority of Adam. So they circumvented that problem by producing their own offspring who, who, who were legal claimants to the throne, who could occupy human thrones because they were human enough to do it. And they did indeed occupy human thrones, and men willingly worshiped them and bowed down to them, the offspring of the gods.

And remember, by the way, I believe that the, the Watchers struck a bargain with a faction of the human race, with the line of Cain. I believe the Watchers struck a bargain with the off, with the sons of Cain. They would give them what they wanted, and in return, they would get what they wanted. Remember, we are the regions of Earth. People need to get this in their heads. You can't have fallen angels, which is, by the way, the term fallen angels is a contrivance. I really like to use it because it's not a biblical term, but it, I mean, the concept is true enough. Fallen angels can't just come and kick us out and take over. If they could, they would have a long time ago. The Watchers couldn't just come down, set up shop, and, and, and, you know, just eradicate us all. They did not have the authority to do that, and they knew that they would be, that they, that they would be in trouble if they tried, very, very quickly, you know, because the armies of the Kingdom would show up, who enforce our authority.

All right, so they had to strike a bargain with us. We had to abdicate authority. We had to allow them to grant them to do something, okay? And this is what the Book of Enoch says. The Watchers came down, you know, they, they landed on Hermon. They, they came, by the way, remember where's that gate that I say to Eden, to the axis mundi? Hermon, right? It's no coincidence that they show up on Hermon, okay? They come down into the plains, and I believe they strike a bargain with specifically with this, with the sons of Cain, with the offspring of Cain, okay? They strike a bargain, and the bargain is, we're going to give you what you want. We're going to teach you the knowledge that you were striving to learn. This is what the Book of Enoch says. The Watchers taught men the knowledge they were striving to learn. So the Watchers already knew what the, the knowledge that, that the offspring of Cain were attempting to, to, to, to learn, that they were desirous to learn. All right, Watchers had that knowledge. We'll teach you. What do we want in return? Give us your, your daughters. Let us take them as wives.

Notice, uh, Josh, that they didn't just come down and fornicate, right? They didn't just come down and rape women. They wanted wives. They took wives. So they chose wives. I want to marry your daughter. Give me your blessing to marry her. I will give you knowledge. You give me the blessing. You give me the blessing to marry your daughter. Give me the legal precedent, the legal authority to marry your daughter, me, a Watcher. And I'm going to give you in turn knowledge. It's a bargain. A bargain was struck, okay? Why? Because we're the Regents of the Earth. The Watchers are coming into our domain. By the way, anybody or anything aside from the King himself who comes into our domain is in our jurisdiction, right? Right. We're the Regents. You break the law in our realm. Guess who's going to judge you? The Regent. This is why it says in the, I believe Paul says that we will judge angels, which angels? Specifically the ones that transgressed in our realm. Okay? We're the Regents. We have the authority. You come into our realm, you interlope into our realm, you transgress in our realm, we have the authority to judge you. That's why Enoch was appointed as the, what would you call him? Uh, he was the intermediary between God and the Watchers. It had to be a man. They broke the law in our realm, and therefore it was a son of man, Enoch, who was delivering their sentence. Okay? God used a human intermediary purposely to judge the Watchers who committed, even though the Watchers are of a higher state than we are, when they're in our territory, they're under our jurisdiction, right? Right. In the same way that if I'm, you know, you and I, if you and I are, uh, diplomats from the United States, the most powerful government on Earth, and we go to Peru, and we break the law in Peru, which is, which is not even close to being as powerful as our government, right? It doesn't matter. You and I would still be subject to the laws of Peru, and then we would be judged by Peruvian judges. We're under their jurisdiction, right? Right. Same concept.

So the Watchers had to strike a bargain. They're trying to get this done without, uh, without the Kingdom of Heaven interfering. They're trying to do it legally. All right? The game has rules. Like I say in my book, the game of thrones has rules. It's not chaos. No, God is not a god of chaos. He's a god of order, and there is procedure, and there is order, and you can't nilly-willy break the laws, not the laws of physics, and not the laws of God. You can't, all right? Not with, and get away with it, okay? So the Watchers are here. They're in our jurisdiction. They know that in order to do what they want to do, they have to be sly. They have to be cunning, just like the serpent. They have to be cunning. They have to get us to abdicate our authority, authority, and then they have to usurp the, the dominion of the Earth. They can't just take it. They have to usurp it.

So they strike a bargain with the offspring of Cain. I believe it was the offspring of Cain, and there's reasons why I say that. Strike a bargain. We're going to teach you the knowledge you want. You give us your daughters in marriage, above board and legal, right? Uh, the, the offspring of Cain were legally authorized to give their daughters in marriage. And of course, this is the way that the ancient world worked. You know, it wasn't like match.com where you just go out, find a partner, and you end up marrying him. No, the fathers, who were the authority in their households, they were the, they were the, uh, the chiefs of their homes, right? They could give, they, they had to give their daughters in marriage. Give them in marriage. You had to get the father's blessing. And by the way, that law is still in effect, even though we don't follow it anymore, right? That doesn't mean it's not in operation, okay? And there's problems that arise when it's not done properly. It's just the way it is. So, so the fathers had to give their daughters in marriage. You had to get a, and, you know, that's with the dowries and things like this come into play. So the Watchers, you know, they gave a dowry for the hand of the daughters. They gave knowledge. The men gave their daughters in marriage, not rape, not just fornication, in marriage. Very important point there.

Yeah. What's it demonstrating? It's demonstrating our authority, is what it's demonstrating, okay? Given that, given that their daughters in marriage, and then the Watchers gave their knowledge. They taught, they taught men to do all these things, right? And they wrought great evil in the Earth. It's like giving kids matches and, and sending them to run through dry fields to go play in dry fields, right? So, so the Watchers then did something very cunning. They had their wives. Now they got these wives, so they get to fulfill the first cause. They get to fulfill their first desire, which is to take wives and to copulate with them because they lusted. They were lusting after these women. They copulate. Now they get to their second desire, which is to procreate offspring, hybrid offspring. And that is indeed what they did. The women gave birth to hybrid, half-breed sons, possibly daughters too, certainly half-breed sons, okay? And these sons, you and I, I think talked about this before, there's some, some tales which the women's, you know, um, uteruses burst open and their bellies burst open and these giant babies came, came rolling out. I, I'm of the persuasion, those are in some extra-biblical texts. I'm of the persuasion that that it was like very much like gigantism. Women give birth to babies with gigantism, normal-sized babies, and those babies, because of the disease of gig, the genetic anomaly of of gigantism, their growth accelerates after they're born. Their growth accelerates and they end up becoming huge. So that same principle could have been infected. Think women could have given birth to normalized babies, and then something in their genomes kicked in, accelerated growth. And there's probably half a dozen other ideas.

So, so these, these hybrids are emerging from the womb, part Watcher, part, I'm going to use this term, Elder Race, and part human race. What ratio? They're probably a little bit more Elder Race, according to the Book of Enoch, because it said you were mainly of your fathers, remember? But human enough to inherit the birthright of Adam. And there's the key to legally inherit the birthright of Adam. So, watch, with the Watchers, so watch what the Watchers did. The Watchers legally made an agreement with the Regents of the Earth, us, for our daughters. We give you knowledge. You give us your women to take as wives. And then they gave birth to legal claimants to the throne of Adam, human enough to occupy that throne, okay? And that's exactly what they did. And then, you know, the Watchers achieved their, through their sons, they achieved, so through their wives, they achieved their second objective, the procreation of their sons. And through their sons, they, they achieved the third objective, dominion of the Earth by proxy. And I talk a lot about this idea, rule by proxy. It's very, very important. I won't go into it now. U, but it's in my book. This concept of rule by proxy. So, so if I can't legally have dominion on the Earth, but I can create a hybrid son who can, then I can, in effect, rule from behind his throne. All right? And now we are setting up a shadow. Now we're beginning to understand maybe what the dragon is going to do with his son at the end, end of the age, his son Apollo at the end of the age. And that's what happened. So they usurp the Earth, dominion of the Earth. Men, according to the Book of Enoch, um, they were, they were subjugated to the offspring of the Watchers, and they had to feed them, remember? And when they couldn't sustain them anymore, what did the Watchers, what did the offspring of the Watchers do? Because they were giants, they devoured the men. And so, um, it was a dystopia. It was a dystopia in which the offspring were ruling the Earth. Men had lost dominion. It was usurped. And that's why the slate had to be cleaned. And this, and there had to be a reset.

In the book, you talk about, you know, the satanic Dragon priesthood of, uh, Cain, how that connects with things like cyclopean architecture, which this is just the remnants of these hybrids, uh, that you talked about that still exist today. We can still see these sites from the golden age. But like you said, there had to be a reset. And you bring out some really interesting things about the flood, such as how, you know, the angel Raphael was commanded to heal this plague before the flood so that Noah's sons could have genetically pure wives, and how that paved the way for Jesus. What are, what are some of the things that you, uh, found that gives us the real story behind the flood, that only mankind had the right to rule the Earth instead of this, uh, cartoonish Sunday school version that most Christians are told?

You raise a critical point here, which is that, of course, you know, you got to ask the question, where was the devil in all of this, right? When I say the devil, of course, the devil is a very generic, colloquial term that, that, you know, I think the, the best designation is the dragon, right? That's who this really, you know, the, the, you know, who this is. This is like, it's like the Harry Potter series, it's like Voldemort, he who shall not be named, or however it is that's how the Bible treats this guy. Yeah, you're never told, you're never, because his name isn't Lucifer. That's not, that's not his name. And, you know, it's okay for people to call him Lucifer. I, I guess that's an appropriate designation because it does fit. Um, but, but we're not told his name. It's, it's, his name is not to be spoken. It's like, it's like his name is, he's so abominable, that, that, he's so despicable, that, that his name isn't spoken, right? That's how this, that's how this character is treated in the Bible, right? And so, um, uh, he's called by many names, and, and, and dragon is one. The dragon. But I think there are more than one dragon, by the way. I think there are seven. And I get into that in the book. But so this goes back to, you know, what people have called the seed war, you know, back in Genesis 3, where, where the maker himself pronounces this, this, this prophecy that, uh, the offspring of the, in, in short, the offspring of the, of the serpent would be in conflict, perpetual conflict with the offspring of the, of the woman. And that, you know, her seed would, would basically fight with your seed, and, and, and you will bruise his heel, but he will crush your head.

And so this is a, this is a prophecy that again, is spoken from the lips of the maker. So the dragon has a problem, right off the bat. He knows he's, he's, he knows there's a dragon slayer. That's what I call it, the dragon slayer prophecy. He knows there's a dragon slayer coming at some point, and that that dragon slayer, who's going to crush his head, is going to be born from the womb of a daughter of Eve. He knows that, and it's inevitable. God spoke it. It's not, you know, will this prophecy come to pass? It's coming to pass. And so he goes about and he spends all of his effort and energy on foiling this prophecy, frustrating this prophecy. And so, part, so I, you know, the question that always really bothered me was, you have these, this, this group of entities called Watchers who descend to the Earth and engage in all this chicanery on Earth. Where was the devil? Where was the dragon during all of this? Why wasn't he implicated in this crime? Right? And I think he was much more cunning than that. I think he probably maybe set the board for this to happen. Maybe he brought the pieces together, but he kept his hands clean enough not to be implicated in the judgment of the Watchers. He did not commit their transgression. Yet, uh, I think he will, but he hasn't yet. He did not commit their transgression. If he had, he would have paid their penalty, right? He didn't. The justice of God is not arbitrary. It's not whimsical. As I said, the law of God is the law of God. It governs the universe. You commit the crime, you pay the price. The judgment fits the crime. And if the devil had committed the same trespasses the Watchers, he would have been subject to the same condemnation. And he's not yet. So, um, he kept his hands clean, at least clean enough not to be subject to their condemnation, which was to be bound in chains and so forth, and, and, and put down in Tartarus. Which, by the way, isn't that what happens to the dragon at the end of the age? That's right. Sounds like he's committing the same crime to me. So, so, but hasn't yet, hasn't yet. So, um, so this idea, this question of where, where, where's the devil in all of this, it's interesting to me because I believe that the dragon was involved in enticing the different elements here that were involved in the transgression of the Watchers. But his goal, his goal wasn't to produce offspring on Earth and do all of this yet. His goal was to eradicate the human species. That was his goal. That was his goal. His prime objective was to get rid of the offspring of Adam. Why? Because if he could eliminate the human species on planet Earth, then he would succeed in foiling the dragon slayer prophecy. There wouldn't be any daughters of Eve to give birth to a dragon slayer, because the son of Adam is coming. And there's a son of Adam who's going to be born at some point in time who is going to crush your head. So you got to stop this from happening. And this is, of course, what he does from, from start to finish. I mean, we see this implication all the way through the Bible. Lots of people talked about this, and it's true. It's true. This was the devil's, the dragon's primary objective. I'm going to eradicate the human race off the face of the planet and therefore for, and therefore avoid this, this fate of mine, again, pronounced from the lips of the maker. So his, that was his goal. The Watchers had a different goal. The Watchers wanted dominion of the Earth. The dragon wants dominion of the Earth too, and he's going to get it for a time, just like the Watchers did. That's not until the end of this age. And so, I don't remember the question you asked me. Oh, and so, you know, so you have this, this, this narrative of Christ. This is the driving narrative of scripture from, from beginning to end. This is the real issue here. Christ is coming. Christ is coming. And the dragon is trying to stop him. He obviously fails. Christ is born from the, from, from the virgin womb of a daughter of Eve, by the way. Little, little digression here. We were talking about C.S. Lewis earlier, right? Yeah. Do you remember who has the right to rule in Narnia? It's been years. Only the Sons and Daughters of Adam. Oh, right. So, so C.S. Lewis was on to this, okay? And, and there was somebody trying to usurp the throne of the Sons and Daughters of Adam, and that was the witch, right? Who came, who was not, you know, who was not a son or daughter of Adam, okay? So there's a little rabbit hole for people if they're fans of the C.S. Lewis. I'm telling you, Tolkien and Lewis were all over this stuff. Oh yeah, definitely. And, um, and so, um, you know, so this is, this is the implication of the dragon and the implication of the Watchers. They're, they're, they're different. They've got different goals here. The Watchers want to procreate, uh, uh, half-breed sons who can inherit the birthright of Adam, so that they can have dominion of the Earth. The dragon, in this point in time, wants to eradicate the human race. Their purposes cross paths. They, they dovetail. So the dragon doesn't get his hands dirty in their transgression yet, but he's going to. He didn't yet, though. And so their plan fails. Why? Because of what you just said. A pure stock was preserved. The, the unblemished line of Adam was preserved in Noah, just in time, by the way. The days were shortened, Josh, for the sake of the elect, not to save their lives, but to preserve their humanity. You understand what I'm telling you? So the days were shortened before the flood so that this probably what was probably a, a germline genetic situation happening, just spreading out for, you know, by way of reproduction, corrupting all flesh on Earth. But the flood came soon enough, and, and, and God ensured that Noah's line was not corrupted to preserve the human seed of mankind, the genetic seed of mankind. So the day, so, and the reason why I'm saying in these terms, because we know that at the end of the age, the days are going to be shortened for the sake of the elect. I believe not to save their lives. I mean, we're all going to die, right? Not to save our lives, but to preserve our humanity, just like before the flood. I think the same kind of a scenario is going to unfold. Different, different for several reasons. Not exactly the same. I don't believe the Watchers are going to get unchained. And why would they get unchained? They've been condemned, okay? They're in chains and they're condemned. I don't believe the Watchers are going to be unchained. I believe that that, that the, that the dragon is going to commit, um, he's going to commit the transgression, uh, that he, that he didn't commit with the Watchers back in the pre-flood world. He's going to do it, but he's not going to do it until he knows that his days are short and he's almost out of time. It's the last card that's going to be played, and that leads to the battle of Armageddon. And that's, uh, for the next talk.

Do you have any last words for the audience? What, what do you want most for people to take away from part two of our our discussion here?

The concept of the birthright. The concept of the birthright, that people understand that dominion of the Earth is the birthright of mankind. Good, bad, or indifferent, it's a birthright of mankind collectively, okay? And that our dominion is enforced by the armies of the Kingdom. And that the game here, the game of dominion, it's the game of thrones, and the game of thrones has rules. And, and, and so if we understand the dynamics that are in play, then we be, then we can, then, uh, we, we can then begin to understand the dynamics that are in motion at the end of the age. There's a reason why things happen the way they do in the end of the age, because the game is being played according to the rules. And, and what the Watchers did, something akin to that, not exactly the same, but something akin to that, is going to transpire at the end of the age. And so that's why it's important to work from, you know, from, in my book, from, from pre-Adam to to Armageddon, because I unfold this whole process and all of these precepts from start to finish.

And that's absolutely why, uh, your book deserves a series instead of just, uh, one short interview, because it's, it's one of, it's one of the very few books that I've read that's that's laid out this way. And I don't want to give the audience the wrong impression, it, it's technical, but it's easy to read. Like, you're not going to be lost or confused. You're not going to be bogged down in a bunch of complicated terms. You're going to understand perfectly what you're reading, but every idea does build upon the, the ones that came before it towards, uh, towards the final conclusion of the book, which, uh, you need all the backstory for. So I'm really glad that, uh, that we're doing this series. And thank you again, Tim, for, uh, being on for part two. And I appreciate this format, Josh, because of all the interviews I've done, I've never really been able to actually lay out what the book's about. I've always had to give, you know, basically cliff notes on particular chapters rather than giving you the overview of, of, of what the book is discussing in, in, in its totality. So I really appreciate it.

Yeah, it's my pleasure. I, I appreciate the book, appreciate your work, appreciate you, and, uh, I'm looking forward to our next talk. So everybody watching, um, make sure to join us next time. Head on over to Timothy alberino Amazon and join us next time.

Hey everybody, welcome to The Sharpening Report. We welcome back Timothy Alberino. Tim, how you doing?

I'm doing very well, thank you.

Absolutely. Thank you for joining us again. For those who have been following the series, this is part three. I finished the rest of your book. Phenomenally written. I loved the last chapter. Um, I, I really like, like really everything that we're going to be talking about today. Last time, we discussed the Garden of Eden, the degeneration of, uh, Adam, the golden age when gods walked among men, and the judgment of the flood. So picking up from last time, the next topic discussed in your book is Atlantis. And interestingly enough, like you point out in your book, Atlantis was divided into 10 portions that were ruled by the 10 sons of Poseidon, hybrid twins. What does Atlantis, uh, tell us about the end of the age? Because there's some prophetic significance here.

Well, Atlantis encodes 710 numerology of the dragon. And what I mean by that is the dragon had seven heads, 10 horns, 10 diadems on his heads. And interestingly enough, the, the tale of, of Atlantis, which also encapsulates the, the, the essence, the, uh, the story of the, of the, of the golden age and the descent of the gods and the cohabitation of the gods and men. So when you begin to realize that the objective of the, the great plan of, of the luciferian priesthood is to, uh, bring about a, a resurrection of the Atlantean world order, then you be, you can, you can find a very interesting correlation between, um, the, the story of Atlantis, the legend of Atlantis, and some of what's unfolding in the Book of Revelation. Um, and that is precisely because Atlantis fits, is, is part of, I believe, the dragon's, the imaginations of the dragon at the end of the age. And again, that is to, uh, um, resurrect, reanimate the, the lost, um, the old order, the order of the old world, the, at, what I call the Atlantean world order, which was a condition in which the offspring of the gods were ruling on Earth, the hybrid offspring of the gods were governing the Earth, were ruling on Earth, were really, there were, it was a, like I said last time, it was a dystopian nightmare on planet Earth. And that's where we're headed again. And there's this three-step plan to usher in this new golden age that these people want to, uh, bring about. They, they want to bring back, you know, this horrible time in human history. They see that as a good thing. But, um, they want to specifically instill a new religion, an alien threat, and a post, a, a, a post-human paradigm. But before we get into each of those three steps, who are the people behind this plan? Before we get into the plan itself, who are these people and who are they serving?

Well, if you go to the top of the hierarchy, you're, you're dealing with what I call the insurgency. And, and, well, let me rephrase that. All of the enemies of God, I call the insurgency, because that's exactly what they are, human or non-human. They are the insurgency. At the top of the ins, of the hierarchy of the insurgency is our seven dragon princes. Chief among those princes is the, is the, is the principal figure who, who we have designated as Satan, who the Bible designates as Satan. Now, of course, the, the term Satan is, is not really a proper name in the Bible. It's the Satan. It's the, it's the, Satan means adversary, accuser. So, but there is a figurehead. And last time we talked, we mentioned that this figure, whom the Bible designates as Satan, the Satan, the primary, the primary antagonist, uh, is, is very much likened in my mind, for those who are familiar with the Harry Potter series, to to Voldemort, in that he, it is he who is not to be named, he who should not be named. Uh, so we're never really given, uh, the name of these aders, these principal adversarial figures, these non-human figures. Um, Lucifer is not his name. Lucifer is a, is a misnomer. And I, and I explain why that is in the Bible. I don't mind the term Lucifer, the moniker Lucifer, because it is fitting. Um, nevertheless, it is not his actual name. But this is the figure that I'm talking about. This is the, the principal figure at the top. Um, and he has six subordinate princes. And again, I go through this in my book. I lay this case out why I believe that he has six princes. And so beneath them in the hierarchy of the insurgency are probably a host of other, uh, insurgent sons of God, rebel sons of God. And by the way, I kind of bear away from the term fallen angel because it's, it's a little bit too colloquial for me. It's a little bit too, it's ambiguous, and, and it's a little bit too cartoony for me. It's cartoonish in my mind, right? Um, I think that, you know, people will envision, if you say fallen angel, people are going to envision like grotesque horned creatures with wings falling from the sky. That is not the accurate depiction of these beings. When I say these beings, I mean, of course, the, the fallen sons of God, the, the insurgent sons of God. They've defected from the Kingdom. These are members of what I call the Elder Race. And we explained why I call that them that in the first, uh, interview we did, that these, these are members of the El, defected members of the Elder Race who defected from the Kingdom of Heaven, who followed the dragon into open insurrection against the King of Heaven long ago. And these creatures, these entities, are not, as I said, grotesque figures. These are not the, the monsters that we've seen portrayed in books and, and, and in Hollywood, the demonic figures. Uh, these are, I believe, um, very beautiful beings that, uh, and I, and I always want to say, we, and they look very much like us. But in reality, we look very much like them. Remember, we're the younger brother. And, and all of the sons of God bear the image of the Son of God. And that's why we look alike, us and them. And we know we look alike. I mean, this is not disputed. And, and this can't really be disputed, um, from a biblical standpoint, because we know that in the Bible, when, when men encounter angels, angels look like men. And again, it's really, really the case is that men look like angels. And, and so I believe that the, the insurgent faction of, of fallen sons of God are probably, they're probably six to seven feet tall, they have blonde hair, blue eyes, most of them, fair skin. And so these are the fallen sons of God. These are the quote unquote fallen angels. And we need to kind of, um, jettison this, this grotesque imagery that we have in our heads when, when, when contemplating the insurgent sons of God, because you're going to be pretty shocked in the future, I think, if that's your, if that's the, your contemplation of, of, uh, you know, what some people refer to as the fallen ones. But in reality, these are insurgent sons of God. They've defected from the kingdom. And by the way, every single human being who rejects the cross of Christ, who rejects the gospel, is also an insurgent. You are part of the insurgency. You are an enemy of God. That's why the Bible calls you an enemy of God. If you reject the gospel of Christ, you are an enemy of God. And in fact, we're all born into this condition of enmity with God, of depravity, of destitution. Uh, and, uh, it's again, like the prodigal son. The prodigal son recognized his, his depravity, his destitution, and decided to go and ask for forgiveness from his father. Um, and that's a depiction of, of, of repentance. And so, you know, those who are not with the King are against him. Those who are not members of the Kingdom of God are, are members of the insurgency, whether they like it or not, they are. And to some degree, you belong to the leader, the chief of the insurgency, the dragon, and his princes. And so the dragon is at the top of the hierarchy. Now, there are, um, there are human agents and human agencies that are knowingly, um, operating on the Earth as agents of the dragon, as agents of this, of of the insurgency. They view the dragon and his princes, they view the defected sons of God as the good guys, the sons of God, I should say. And they, they view Yahweh, Jehovah, as they refer to him, as the enemy. Right? You know, this is the gospel of Christ. This is the, this is the biblical narrative upside down. That is the, I saw a really interesting book title the other day. I love the book title, and I wish I would have thought of it first. The Gospel According to Satan. Oh, wow. So it's a great title for a book because really, really, that's what luciferianism is. It's the gospel according to Satan, because, because the dragon takes the gospel, the, the narrative of the biblical narrative, and literally flips it upside down. He inverts it. And that's his gospel, that Yahweh is evil, that mankind was in slavery.

In Eden, that it was the dragon who liberated, who enlightened mankind. The dragon is The Giver of knowledge. The dragon is The Giver of eternal life. Yahweh is the enemy. And I make a point in this book to demonstrate that at the End of the Age, there will be no atheists. I say that atheism is going extinct. It's going to be evolving into something, into a new religion, into a new concept. And I coin a term: apoo theism.

Atheism is the amalgamation of apotheosis, which is to become like a god, is to become deified. Apotheosis and theism, which is the belief in the gods. So you take your belief that you're going to become like the gods that exist. So it's not that the gods don't exist, it's that the gods do exist, and we can become like that. That is apoo theism. That is the religion of the future. Yeah, that is the religion of the future. Yeah.

And I was going to ask too, because we read in Bible prophecy about this strange end times religion. And it seems by descriptions in Daniel and possibly even Revelation, depending on how you interpret it, but it seems like this is something that's kind of new. Something that has roots in ancient history, but it's kind of a new manifestation of it. So, like you said, is this the end times religion? What exactly is that? And how have we been seeing this develop in the past few decades?

There's three primary philosophies or doctrines that have come together, that have converged, that are converging in our time, that are going to lead to this new doctrine, apoo theism. And these three doctrines come from three primary figureheads. First, Charles Darwin and the theory of evolution. Second, Frederick Nietzsche and his philosophy, the philosophy of Nietzsche, which is the will to power, which is an adaptation of the struggle of evolution by natural selection. So he did not like Darwin's mechanism of natural selection. So he replaced it with what he called the will to power, which is leading to conscious evolution, which is the end game here. And then the third element is Aleister Crowley. Crowley was a devotee of Frederick Nietzsche and also subscribed to evolutionary theory. And you take those three doctrines: Darwinism, Nietzschean philosophy, and Thelema. You take those three, you combine them, that is apoo theism. It is we are going to evolve and become like the gods. We're going to do it by the will to power, our desire to become gods ourselves.

Nietzsche said, "God is dead." And the reason why Nietzsche says God is dead is because we're going to become the gods of our own making. We're going to craft our own concept of morality. You know, and there's a lot of people who view Nietzsche in a different light. They think that maybe Nietzsche gets a bad rap because he said God is dead. And I understand that take. I get it. Nietzsche was a very complicated figure. He was a very complicated philosopher. It's very difficult to paint him in black and white terms. However, it is abundantly clear that Nietzsche had held a contempt for the New Testament. He loved the god of the Old Testament more than he loved what he considered to be the vindictive, wrathful God of the Old Testament. He loved that figure. He hated the New Testament, and he detested the Apostle Paul. And he set himself up as an enemy of the Gospel as depicted in the New Testament.

Because the Gospel of Christ demands that we recognize the depravity of the human condition. It demands that we recognize our depravity. Like the prodigal son, we're eating the slop of pigs. It demands that because you cannot repent unless you first recognize your depravity. That's the first thing that has to happen for conversion. You first recognize your depravity, the depth of your depravity as the offspring of Adam, fallen, sundered from the family of God, full of sin and full of vice. You're born in the natal blood of the fall from your mother's womb, and you are born in a condition, a fallen condition, and you need to be redeemed, reconciled, and restored. You recognize your depravity. Nietzsche didn't like that. Nietzsche did not like the idea of mercy and forgiveness and this loving embrace of Christ and bringing us back into the family of God. Nietzsche liked the will to power. That we recognize that man is still an ape, and that man is a laughing stock, a mockery. And that we must evolve. We have this divine mandate to evolve out of instead of repenting and being restored to the resurrection. Nietzsche views it as, yes, we're destitute, yes, we're depraved, but we need to use the will to power, this mechanism of evolution, the will to power, to evolve out of man and into the Overman, into Superman. There are different translations. So we need to overcome mankind. "What have you done to overcome mankind?" he asks, using the voice of Zarathustra. And so there's this compulsion in Nietzschean philosophy that mankind must evolve.

See, Darwin, the mechanism of evolution that Darwin provided, natural selection, has no purpose. It has no direction. It's not going anywhere. And evolutionary biologists will tell you this. In fact, they hate the notion that evolution has a purpose. They shoot it down. If anybody suggests that evolution has a purpose, they're very much in opposition to that idea. Evolution has no purpose. They're always making this case: stop trying to give evolution a purpose. And they're usually making this case against New Agers and people like Barbara Marx Hubbard and others. Stop trying to give evolution a purpose. It doesn't have a purpose. It has no reason. It has no rhyme or reason. It's not going anywhere. There is no destination for evolution. This is what evolutionary biologists say. It's random mutation, it's just survival. Not so, according to Nietzschean philosophy. And by the way, the Darwinian view is fading in the background. And the Nietzschean view is rising. Nietzsche gave evolution a purpose. He said the purpose of evolution is the Overman. The purpose of evolution on planet Earth is to bring forth the Overman. The Overman is just another way of saying the posthuman. The Overman is a posthuman being. That is the purpose of evolution.

And so you have Darwin, who paved the road for Nietzsche, who paved the road for Crowley. And Crowley was the next important step on the path of apoo theism, on the path of post-humanism. Because what Crowley did was he took this philosophy of Nietzsche and he further developed it. So that we have the will to power. Human beings have the will to power, this evolutionary force to evolve, to become something more than just mere men. And how do we do that? How do we break out? Well, we've got to. And Nietzsche believed this too. We've got to break out of the paradigm of the Christian paradigm that's constraining the West. So Nietzsche believed, and Crowley of course, that Christian morals were inhibiting the rise of superior human beings. And he envisioned, in his mind, the kind of superior human beings that he envisioned. He loved Napoleon. Napoleon was a forerunner of the Overman in Nietzsche's mind. Well, who came after Nietzsche? Adolf Hitler. Who was another. And of course, nobody can deny. People try to deny, people who are students of Nietzsche, really try and distance Nietzsche from the Nazis. You cannot separate Nietzsche from the Nazis. You can't do it. The Nazi doctrine is predicated on Nietzsche. And Blavatsky, by the way, who's another player here. So you have the Nazis, who were taking the Nietzschean mechanism of evolution. The Nazi doctrine was all about evolution, Darwinian evolution. But then they used Hitler. Hitler incorporated Nietzsche's mechanism, the will to power. We're going to create the master race. We're not just going to let random evolution take care of things. No, we are going to breed the master race. Hitler decided he is going to effectuate the mandate of the will to power on Earth. He's going to give rise to the Overman, the master race. That was what the Nazis were all about. That's literally what they were doing. You cannot separate Nietzschean philosophy from Nazism. Sorry, everybody who tries to is just it's an exercise in futility. You can't do it. Nietzsche would have loved Adolf Hitler. He would have loved him because he was a Napoleonic figure.

Crowley, he's taking this concept of will to power, we can become something more than just mere mankind. And he hated the constraint of Christianity and morals. Interestingly enough, I don't know about Darwin, but Nietzsche and Crowley were both born into very puritanical Christian families. And they were both the sons of preachers, ministers. And Crowley decided that in order for mankind to evolve, to go to the next level on his evolutionary ascent, he had to break the constraints of morality. And that's, of course, what Nietzsche said. Nietzsche believed in the master morality as opposed to the slave morality. So the master morality is us making, determining ourselves what morality is. We're going to define what morality is. You can't tell us that. And you want to see this here? I'll give you a very vivid example of Nietzschean philosophy. You can't tell me that killing a baby in the womb is immoral. What makes you have the right to tell me that that's immoral? I say that the immorality is taking away the choice from the woman to terminate the baby in the womb. That's Nietzschean philosophy. Make no mistake about it. That's Nietzschean philosophy. I will determine what morality is. And this is, of course, what we see in the United States on the left, more than anything on the right too, but on the left primarily. Don't tell us what morality is. Don't tell us that a traditional family and a man and a woman marrying and having children, don't tell us that that's moral. We can go and marry another man, and that's just as moral. We're creating our own notions of morality. Nietzschean philosophy.

Now rolling over into Crowley's ISM, into Thelema, Crowley's cult, his doctrine of Thelema, which is "Do what thou wilt." So he just took it to the next step. That is the logical progression of Nietzschean philosophy. If Nietzschean philosophy says that we need to break the constraints of morality and will ourselves into the next stage of evolution, then the next logical step would be, do whatever you want. Do what thou wilt. There are no constraints. There is no morality. And in order for mankind to reach his highest potential, we have to break free from the constraints.

Hey, this is starting to sound like something. Psalm 2. It's starting to sound like the declaration of Psalm 2. "Let us break their bonds asunder and cast away their cords from us." Who are they talking about in Psalm 2? They're talking about the Lord and His Anointed Son. In Psalm 2, they're getting ready. See, the nations are plotting. The kings of the earth and the rulers, two different groups, are plotting, scheming together. In Psalm 2, "Let us break their bonds asunder and cast their cords from us." They're talking about Yahweh and His Anointed Son. "We will not have this man rule over us." Is another declaration of this rebellious, posthuman generation that's coming. And so there's going to be a recognition in the future. Make no mistake about it. There will be a recognition that Yahweh exists, that this Judeo-Christian God is actually a real being, and His Son is real. And there are these entities that are real, that are aligned with this being, and they're the bad guys. That's what's going to happen. I mean, I'm telling you, if you read the Bible, if you believe the text of scripture, you avoid that. That is coming. It's not that God doesn't exist. Again, remember atheism. The gods do exist, and we will become like them. That's the religion of the future.

And so what we're headed for is war with Yahweh. And when I say war, please don't think I'm talking about spiritual war, which none of us really knows what that is anyway. I'm talking about kinetic war. War, the kind of warfare that happened in the age before man, that brought ruin in the solar system. That's the kind of war that's coming at the End of the Age. And the dragon is going to muster his forces. And the Beast, Apollo, he's going to muster his forces on Earth, his post-human legions. And what are they doing? They are preparing to resist the return of the Dragon Slayer, of Christ, at the End of the Age.

There's another part to this whole plan too, involving something that has been surprisingly, especially the past two or three years, I've noticed it kind of in our Christian circles, has become controversial to say the least. And so before I ask this next question, I want to preface it by saying, far too often Christians are way too quick to label someone a heretic if they don't agree on certain points relating to the whole alien UFO thing. You know, I've noticed this myself. It's disturbing to say the least. And the fact is, this is a very mysterious phenomenon. And because there isn't a generally accepted, clear-cut answer to it, we're just going to have people that don't agree and have ideas. And that's totally fine. There's nothing heretical about that. It's not even a salvational issue. I've heard people say things like, "Well, yeah, but that theory is going to scare people and make them lose their faith." And, you know, I say that's kind of ridiculous. Because there's a lot of things that are true that can be said that, you know, this will make them lose their faith, like the death of a child, for example. It's not really the thing itself, but it's the interpretation of that thing. So if someone says, "Your child died, so God obviously doesn't exist and doesn't love you," and if that person believes it, then they can lose their faith. But if somebody says, "Jesus is in control, God loves you," and if they believe that instead, they're not going to lose their faith.

Now, the main point here is having the right opinions about non-salvational issues is not what causes someone to keep or lose their faith. If someone loses their faith because they hear an opinion that they're not familiar with or haven't heard before, I see that more as a weakness, more of the fault of the church as a whole for not allowing these conversations to be had. Because they're too busy calling everybody else heretics. And where are we as believers today, if someone's sharing an opinion on a very mysterious thing is grounds to cast that person off and label him as a heretic, despite the fact that he constantly preaches the gospel of Jesus Christ? You know, I think the attitude of, "He must agree with me on this, or he's spreading deception," is foolish. It's immature. It's prideful. As if any one of us knows for 100% fact every single facet of this topic anyway. It's ridiculous. But it's the same as like fighting about the Rapture or Flat Earth or holidays or any number of disagreements that we might have. We're not even supposed to be arguing and getting angry with unbelievers on the gospel of Jesus Christ. We're supposed to show love, respect, and patience. And if we can't disagree in love about an obvious brother in the Lord who clearly loves Jesus, proves that by teaching the biblical gospel consistently. And if you don't believe me, go back and watch the other two parts, because that has been the consistent theme throughout this whole series. You know, it makes me wonder where our priorities are as Christians. It makes me wonder what the church is lifting up as higher and more important than the gospel. And how far and deep into pride that we have fallen.

And so, all of that being said, Tim, I believe that your opinion here absolutely has value. And if we're willing to hear it out and test it, not just against our own interpretations of scripture, but the actual clear teachings of the Bible itself, I believe even if someone disagrees with it, this can help us consider this issue in a fresh and helpful way, instead of being locked into one opinion and refusing to hear anything else out. We don't want to do that as believers. Just remain in ignorance. In me and Derek's book, "The Day the Earth Stood Still," Derek Gilbert and I actually lay out a theological case that intelligent life could exist elsewhere in the universe, and it would not conflict with the Bible. And it already does, right?

Well, and that's what I'm getting to. Because you touched on this briefly in part one of our series here. But what is your opinion on this? Do extraterrestrials, and I mean specifically aliens on another planet, not spiritual or extradimensional beings, because we've been talking about that, but specifically extraterrestrials? Do you believe that they exist? And if so, are they responsible for the sightings and abductions people reported? And not the contactees, because you do make a very apt distinction between abductees and contactees in the book. But the victims of abduction, are they responsible for that? Do they exist? What is your opinion on the whole extraterrestrial alien UFO phenomenon?

In short, yes. The answer is yes. And by the way, I really don't mind, and I could really care less if people call me a heretic, say this or that, say I've lost my way, I've abandoned the faith. Please grow up. What I say to people is, grow the freak up. Because the stuff that's coming is going to shatter your paradigm, so you better get ready. I'm not going to apologize. Look what's coming. Just turn on the news. The issue of UFOs and extraterrestrials is coming. And so you better get ready to deal with it. And I'm telling everybody that the Bible provides the framework to understand these things. It's here. We don't have to worry about it. It shouldn't shake your faith at all, one iota. It does not change, it does not alter the gospel of Christ at all. And in fact, in my book, I show how it fits in with what's happening. I mean, so I think people need to grow up. I think people are, some people in this audience are very factional. They're very tribal. They like to get into little tribes and subscribe to this particular person's perspective or that person's perspective. And again, I think we need to mature, and we need to mature fast. The Bible clearly commands against that stuff. You know, I follow Paul, I follow Apollos, you know, all this stuff. And we're seeing exactly right.

So, before we get into what I call the alien question, there are three things that I identify that are going to lead to the revealing of Apollo, the inauguration of a new golden age, and the Battle of Armageddon. And the Battle of Armageddon is the end game. That's the end game. And these three things are going to come to pass with the confluence of three essential components. And I'm reading from my book here, which we may visualize as the conjunction of three equidistant circles, defined as follows: Number one, the new religion, the establishment of a new religion that impels men to become like the gods. That's apoo theism. Number two, the alien threat, the disclosure of a hostile alien presence and the arrival of the golden race. And number three, the posthuman paradigm, the development of genetic technologies and the emergence of post-humanity. When these three components converge, I write, the end times will be upon us. And I strongly believe that.

So in my book, I talk about, I have a chapter on the alien threat. Understand right off the bat that when I talk about aliens, particularly the greys in this chapter, this is a threat. These are not good guys. These are not angels. I'm not saying that grey aliens are angels. Quite the contrary. And neither do I believe they're demons. They are a threat. And I believe that it's going to become manifest at some point in the future. I don't know when, but we're obviously heading towards this moment in time, whether people like it or not. Disclosure is happening on a very slow, strange, in a very slow, strange way right now. And I believe that the greys, and we're already kind of getting this flavor out of what's coming out in the news, there's a threat. That's what's kind of being the it's not that these are our wonderful space brothers. No, even in the mainstream, like you watch Tucker Carlson, you watch some of these mainstream news organizations that are beginning to acknowledge and recognize not just UFOs, but non-human extraterrestrial, a non-human extraterrestrial presence. These are the terms that are being used right now by the Pentagon. And it's being presented in the context of a threat, a military threat. And I believe that the greys represent the greatest threat we've ever seen. And this is going to play into the coming of Apollo, who is an impersonator of Christ. And Apollo is going to deliver us from this threat, because nobody else can. And we're going to be faced with a situation that is insurmountable. And it will be a clear and present danger. And we'll be so far along the line, we'll be so far down the line in this scenario that we'll be facing a disastrous situation for the human race on planet Earth. And we are going to need to be saved. Mankind will need the intervention of a benevolent extraterrestrial force to intervene on our behalf and to save us from this threat. That's the way I frame it in my book. And that extraterrestrial force, I believe, is going to be Apollo, the revealing of Apollo and his consort, the golden race.

And we didn't talk about the golden race in the first couple of interviews. But in the golden age, when the gods dwelt among men and copulated with human women, they gave birth to their hybrid offspring, who were called the golden race. And so Apollo and his consort, and his consorts, will be the golden race. They will be the offspring, in my opinion, they will be the offspring, the half-breed offspring of the dragon and his princes. And they will arrive to save, to deliver humanity from this threat, from this alien threat. And the threat that we're facing is specifically from a faction called the greys. And I go into this in my book in great detail. It's the longest chapter in my book. And I take a lot of time to unpack what I mean when I talk about these alien beings and who they are, at least to some extent. But more importantly, what they're doing. What the greys are doing. And this is, we're not, when we talk about the abduction program, we're not really in a realm of speculation here. This is not a realm of speculation. This is not a realm of conjecture. This is a realm of scientific fact at this point. The abduction phenomenon is a phenomenon which has been verified scientifically. It has physical evidence, an abundance of physical evidence. It has every kind of evidence that you would need to present in a court of law. You can prove inexorably that the abduction phenomenon is real. It is physical. It is not a spiritual phenomenon. It is a corporeal phenomenon in every way. And it is happening. And it's the biggest deal happening on planet Earth right now. There's nothing more important, more shocking, more disturbing than the abduction phenomenon. It is being conducted by a race of entities that are, in the words of Dr. Jacobs, insectoid in appearance. And they have a workforce of small, bulbous-headed, almond-shaped, black-eyed entities who are referred to as the greys. And again, this is not a realm of conjecture. This is a proven fact, if you read the right material. And the right material has been written and documented by PhD level scientists, not by random people on the internet.

Do not conflate, and this is the first thing I want people to understand when we talk about the abduction phenomenon. Do not conflate abductees with contactees. Do not conflate the physical experience of an abduction episode with any other kind of supernaturalism. Because we're talking about two different things. Contactees are individuals who claim to be in ongoing contact with ETs, that they're getting spiritual information, they're getting metaphysical concepts that are being dictated to them. Usually it involves automatic writing. It's just another aspect of what's called spiritualism, contacting the dead, seances. It's necromancy, to some degree. It's a form of spiritualism. There's no proof. These people have no proof to their claims. Most of them are in it for fame. They're looking to make money. They go around speaking at conferences. They feel that they are intermediaries between these benevolent extraterrestrials and the human race. And that they're trying to raise our awareness. These contactees, this is what they believe their mission is, to raise the awareness of human beings on planet Earth so that we can integrate into the galactic brotherhood. And there are different permutations of this, but it's very New Age. And please understand, it has nothing to do with abductees. Abductees come from every walk of life. There are abductees who are generals in the armed forces, doctors, psychiatrists, probably working in the White House right now. Abductees who are white collar, blue collar, from every walk of life. They all want the experience to stop. None of them like it. None of them are excited about it. And most of them are too ashamed or afraid to come forward with their experiences. The last thing they want is exposure, is to publicize their experiences. And a lot of the ones that have come forward in the past do so under pseudonyms to keep their identity secret. You don't want to be a high-level investment banker or something on Wall Street and suddenly have your colleagues find out that you're claiming that you're being abducted. Those are the abductees. They have physical evidence of their abduction episodes. Most of them, if not all of them, have been abducted since they were toddlers. Abduction is hereditary. If one of your parents is an abductee, then you are also an abductee. And it cuts across every religion, every race, every culture. And the experience of the abductee is exactly the same wherever you are. You can interview an abductee from India who lives in the jungle and an abductee from Indiana in the United States, and they are going to relate the exact same stuff, more or less. They're going to relate the same stuff. The only way that you don't understand this is if you conflate abductees with contactees. Once you conflate those two, then there's a lot of mystique and mystery. Is it spiritual? Is it physical? But when you separate those two phenomena, the one which I think is an invented phenomenon, and the other one which is a physical reality happening to millions and millions of people across the globe on a continual basis. So I want to make that very clear. And I make that case in my book. And there's, I kind of always joke with people when I talk about my book, there's a little something to offend everybody in my book, I think. But I just say it like I see it, and unapologetically so.

You cannot take the scholarly, scientific work that guys like David Jacobs, Bud Hopkins, John Mack, and others, Carla Turner, have done, all of these people are university-trained, very intelligent people. You can't take their years of research, collectively interviewing tens of thousands of abductees, all coming to basically the same conclusions with some variations, but in terms of the details, coming to the same conclusion. You can't take these people's research and just throw it in the garbage and say, "Oh, it's just all spiritual. It's just demons." You can't do that. You can't be intellectually honest and do that. Is what I mean. And so this material, the legitimate abduction research material, must be taken into consideration and taken seriously. I myself have interviewed multiple abductees from different walks of life and have found the same details, have been able to extract the same details as these other guys and gals. And so this is a real phenomenon. It is a physical phenomenon.

So the big controversial question, I guess, the big controversy with Tim Alberino that's floating around on the internet, Tim Alberino doesn't believe that aliens are demons. No, I don't. And guess what? Neither do most of you. Because most of this audience knows what demons are. They know, by now, because of guys like you and Derek Gilbert and people who have done great work, they know that demons are the disembodied spirits of the giants from the pre-flood age. Right. We know that. We all know that. You say it, I say it, Derek Gilbert says it, Mike Heiser says it, Steve Quayle says it, Tom Horn says it, LaMarre says it. We all know what demons are. They are specifically the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. That's what they are. They're not, that's what they are, and that's all they are. And you know, there are these entities that have been banished from the corporeal world. They're wandering the Earth as a vagabond race, these spirits of the Nephilim, condemned, they're cursed. You know what it is? Josh, it's like, I hate to make movie references, but I always get irritated when people make too many movie references to try and make their point, but I can't help it. It's like the movie Pirates of the Caribbean, the first one, right? Where they have the curse because they took that gold, and they're cursed. And what was their curse? They had to wander the seas as vagabond wraiths. They couldn't eat, they couldn't drink, they couldn't interact with the corporeal world. That was their curse. And what did they want? Do you remember what Captain Barbossa wanted? Remember holding the apple? What did he want? He wanted to bite into that apple. That was what he wanted. He didn't want the gold and all that. He just wanted to be able to bite into that apple, to be able to feel once again the fabric of the material world and fill his gut, because he's hungry. He's hungry and he can't. He can hold the apple, but he can't eat it. Well, that's the Nephilim. That's a really great depiction actually of the curse of the Nephilim, wouldn't you agree?

Oh yeah. And like what we talked about before, you know, some of the best movies are the ones that actually draw on the true story. Because I think that we all kind of have it in our spirits or psyche or whatever, we all have these stories kind of embedded in us. And so when we hear it portrayed, I think that's part of the reason that movie was so popular. And all the best movies draw on these ancient themes of these true stories of things that really happened.

Exactly. And so, if we know that that's the curse of the Nephilim, and we know that, I know that, and your audience knows that. Your audience knows who the demons are. They're the hybrid offspring of the Watchers and human women from the pre-flood age. You know that audience listening to us, you know that. Okay, remind yourself, you know that. Now, I want you to envision a grey alien. The bulbous head, the almond-shaped black eyes, the spindly limbs and body. And most importantly, the disposition of the grey alien, which is robotic, stoic. Then I want you to imagine the disposition of the demon. We know what the disposition of demons is. We see them in the New Testament. They're foaming from the mouth, writhing around on the ground, screaming. These are entities that are rabid. We know that. And in many cases, Jesus tells them, "Be quiet." And these entities are, why do they inhabit our bodies? Because they want, through our bodies, they're parasites. I refer to them as, I liken them to parasites in my book. They want to inhabit our body so that they can, through our biology, eat and drink and interact with the material world again, from which they have been banished. It's their curse. They're like, they're like Barbossa in the movie, who wants to eat the apple. And the only way that they can eat the apple is to get inside of us and do it through our biology. And that is all they want. They don't, there I don't believe that they have these machinations and they're inhabiting certain world leaders to, you know. No, these are rabid entities. They only want one thing. They want to be in a body, preferably a human body, to fulfill the lusts of the flesh. It's their curse. God cursed them. That's all they want. And so I don't believe that the spirits of the Nephilim are involved in some conspiracy. Maybe they're being used to some degree, certainly. But I don't believe that they are the ones who have this machination, this grand conspiracy to do anything. If all if you're like Barbossa, and all you want is to eat that apple, your mind 24/7, all you're thinking about is eating that apple. And everything you do, everything all of your activities, your purpose is going to be to get inside of a human body. Not to position yourself and climb up the political rings to become the president, and the demon inhabiting a president. No, you just want to interact with the material world.

Yeah, it'd be like trying to use a drug addict as a soldier or something. It's not gonna work.

Exactly, Josh. That's a great way to think of it. It's like taking a meth head. Hey, meth head, you want to run for office? How effective would a meth head be as a congressman? He doesn't care. You think he cares about making policy or writing up some bill? All he cares about is getting his next hit. Okay, that is the curse. Remember the curse of the Nephilim, of the spirits, these wraiths that are wandering the Earth. They're very real, and they're very dangerous, and they're terrifying. If anybody's ever encountered a demon-possessed person, like super demon-possessed, it's terrifying. I'm not making light of these things. These things are bad, and they're scary. But that's what they are. And again, your audience, the people listening to me right now, know that's true. They know it. Okay.

Again, let's return to this vision of the grey alien with the bulbous head. Grey aliens are stoic. They have no will of their own. They're stoic creatures. They don't even have reproductive organs that we can identify. They don't even eat and drink in the way that we do. Most people think, most of the researchers believe, they absorb nutrients through their skin or through pellets in their mouth. These entities, you couldn't, and I forget the way I say it in my book, but if you were to sit down and think, what kind of a creature could I fabricate that would be the most unappealing for a demon to inhabit? It would be a grey alien. They don't have any sexual organs. They can't even eat and drink. They're stoic, they're robotic. They don't even have really a will of their own. They're like drones. And their only task 24/7 is the abduction program, the retrieval and the processing of abductees. That's it. Not eating and drinking and rolling around in a cave, scratching yourself and fornicating and doing whatever, like the Gadarene demoniac. We know what a demoniac looks like. A demoniac, I don't know if you've ever encountered a demon-possessed person, Josh, you probably have. I have in Peru. Believe me, they don't look like or act like a grey alien. Quite the opposite.

So you're telling me for some, because there's some people who believe that grey aliens are like suits, and it's an interesting concept, but demons inhabit the grey aliens. But you're telling me that there's Nephilim spirits, ravening, carnal, lustful, hungry, thirsty spirits in a grey alien? Picture this. And I hate to get crude here, but picture this grey alien, a little body of a grey alien, who is surrounded by sometimes hundreds of naked people, unconscious or not unconscious, hypnotized. And you're a demonized. These grey aliens are full of demons. And you don't even have sexual organs to fulfill your... I mean, you don't even have sexual organs. Why would demons want to be in that thing? They'd want to get out of that thing really fast.

It's a good point. Why would they stay in that thing and not go into people who are on the tables instead?

It's literally, I'm sorry, things have to make sense. A theory has to be plausible. And it's not plausible that grey aliens are demons. It's not plausible. And the audience knows it. If they think about it, use your brain. Think about it. Slow down. Stop being afraid of the word alien. Slow down. Hit the brakes. Understand what a demon is, what these wraith spirits are from the Nephilim, and understand what a grey alien is. And understand that these two things are not compatible. They're not compatible. And there's no evidence at all that they're related. There's not one is a ravenous, foaming from the mouth creature. The other is a stoic, robotic entity without sexual organs. Very calm. These are very calm beings too, the greys. These are not demonic. Get in your face and try and frighten you. These are very calm beings. They're not good. I'm not saying they're good. Nothing. I would never call anything that comes and forcibly takes you from your bedroom and brings you up onto their vessel, and if you're a woman, extracts ova from you, and if you're a man, sperm, that's not a good. There's nothing good about that. That's nefarious. And so these beings, are they demonic in their imaginations? Is their program demonic? Sure, yes. They're evil. I will say they're evil. What they're doing is evil. What they're doing is subversive. These are enemies. But they're not demons. And people get upset by that. I'm sorry, man. You have to logically deduce things. Don't think with your emotions. Think with your brain, not with your emotions. And that's the people have a knee-jerk reaction because they're so used to contemplating alien as demons. That there's an emotional response if somebody says, "No, they're not demons." There's just like this, they want to just leap at you because they've been conditioned. And they're so comfortable with the idea that an alien is a demon. And when you take that comfort blanket away, and you're kind of exposed to this new cold reality that, oh wait a minute, maybe they're not demons. And so, oh, what are they?

Some, you know what? I'm going to tell you something. It's having your paradigm expanded or broken apart and reassembled is not comfortable. Doesn't feel good. When your paradigm is broken up and reassembled, it's like your muscles. It doesn't feel good. When you go in the gym and rip your bicep apart, that's what you're doing when you're lifting the weight. You're ripping your bicep apart. Doesn't feel good. And then afterwards, it's sore, it hurts. But guess what? When it heals, it builds up bigger and stronger. And that's like a paradigm. It doesn't feel good to expand your paradigm or to have it busted up. But when your paradigm is enlarged and enlightened and grows and is mature, that's a good feeling. Because now you can begin to understand things and contemplate things without fear. And what it leads to is you become not just smarter, you become wiser. And what I tell everyone, and what you must do, and what this book's about, you anchor yourself in the gospel of Christ. That's your anchor. The gospel of Christ. And everything else is kind of moving pieces and parts, falling into place. And you're rearranging, you're kind of rearranging the theological furniture in your mind. But your anchor is the gospel. Your foundation is the gospel of Christ.

So long story short, no, aliens are not demons. They're not. There is no proof. There is no evidence that aliens are demons. And what are aliens? Aliens are aliens. They're not us. Remember our definition of aliens. They're not us. So they are therefore, by definition, alien. They're alien to us. They're not us. Now, are they extraterrestrial? I don't know. I think so. I'm of the opinion that they are. I don't know. For all I know, they come.

From under the ground, I don't know. You know, I think that that's a, that's a very interesting question, and, and, and it's, it's certainly worth contemplation. And, and who knows? Are they ex? They're certainly alien, though. Um, so, and, and by the way, if you read the book, I lay all of this out. And, um, I think I encourage people to look at the material, the good material. Stop looking at, stop looking at contactee garbage. Don't read contactee garbage. Don't conflate these contactees, these New Age contactees, with abductees. Don't do it. It's a, it's a disservice to abductees, number one. When you do that, you really, it's, it's an offense. If I were an abductee, I'd be pretty offended by that. Don't mix me with those people, you know? Don't mix me with those New Age loons. I'm suffering. And I'm, I'm not. But, but if I were, if I were an abductee, I'd be pretty ticked about that. 'Cause you, 'cause abductees are going through, through physical experiences.

Listen, let me just read this really quick. Josh, yeah, definitely. Uh, Dr. Mack, a Pulitzer Prize winner and former head of the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, maintained that in order to challenge the reality of alien abduction, an alternative psychiatric theory would have to account for the following five dimensions of the phenomenon:

One, the high degree of consistency of detailed abduction accounts reported with emotion appropriate to actual experiences, told by apparently reliable observers.

Number one. Number two, the absence of psychiatric illness or other apparent psychological or emotional factors that could account for what is being reported.

Number three, the physical changes and lesions, uh, affecting the bodies of the experiencers, which follow no evident psychodynamic pattern.

Number four, the association with UFOs witnessed independently by others while abductions are taking place, which the abductee may not see.

Five, the reports of abduction by children as young as two or three years of age.

That's Dr. Mack, who is a psychiatrist. Now, Dr. Jacobs, as a historian. Dr. Jacobs was trained to methodically analyze events in sequence from a pragmatic and nonpartisan point of view. Like Dr. Mack, he offered a list of facts that must be accounted for in the formulation of an alternative explanation that seeks to gainsay the physical reality of the phenomena.

So, for people who want to contest that the phenomenon, who want to argue with me that the phenomenon is not physical, you have to account for the following. And this is from Dr. David Jacobs.

When people are abducted, they are physically missing from their normal environment. People are sometimes abducted in groups and can confirm each other's reports. Bystanders sometimes see people being abducted. When returned to their normal environment after an abduction, people often have marks, cuts, bruises, broken bones, and even fully formed scars, a biological impossibility that were not there before the abduction. When returned, people sometimes have their clothes on inside out or backward. They are, or they are wearing someone else's clothes. In these cases, they clearly remember dressing themselves correctly beforehand. Most of what abductees describe has no antecedence in popular culture. Abductions occur at all times of the day and night, depending on access to the abductees and when they will be least missed. Abductees need not be sleeping. Abductions begin in, abductions begin in childhood and continue with varying frequency into old age.

There's two more. The abduction phenomenon is intergenerational. The children of abductees often themselves report being abductees, as do their children. And the final one, abductions are unrelated to alcohol or drugs.

Now, there is a contention. There's a popular contention that abductees, that abductions are spiritual experiences because we come to find out that sometimes people who are on psychedelics or mind-altering drugs sometimes see gray aliens or have encounters with alien beings. What people fail to realize is that when you are abducted, you have a screen. Most of the time, the, the, the, the aliens, the Grays, implant a screen memory. So they hide the abduction experience, the real memories of the abduction experience, behind a screen of false memories. And to get to the real memories, you have to bypass the false memories. When you bypass the false memories, the real memories start to surface, which is usually pretty dramatic for people.

Um, however, there are ways to bypass those false memories. One of the ways to bypass the false memories, I believe, is through mind-altering drugs. I don't suggest that people do mind-altering drugs. I think it's dangerous. I would never do it. But people who do take mind-altering drugs, uh, such as ayahuasca in the Amazon, can bypass the screen memory. And when you bypass the screen memory, guess what? You're going to begin to see the faces of your abductors. You're going to begin to encounter, um, the figures of your abductors, and, and, and, and bits and pieces of memories related to your abduction episodes. And I believe that is what is happening to people when they're on these psychedelic trips.

Um, so it's again, I think we do, we do abductees a disservice when we try and wave away their experiences as spiritual or metaphysical. Oh, no, no, no. Don't worry, it's just spiritual, metaphysical.

Now, let me make this very clear. Being an abductee has no bearing whatsoever on your faith in Christ. Zero. Zero. An abductee who is a Christian is no less of a Christian, or it doesn't have any weaker faith than a Christian who's not being abducted. Zero bearing on your faith in Christ. In the same way that if somebody's abducted, something that you know a lot about, by a human trafficker, right? The person who's abducted by a human trafficker, if that person's a Christian, that's no indication of their faith or lack thereof in Christ. They are, they are a victim of an abduction. And an alien abduction is very similar to an abduction of any other kind. You're being forcibly taken from your bedroom or wherever you happen to be, and you are being subjected to invasive procedures, some of which are sexual in nature. And then, in, in the, in the case of an alien abduction, you're, you're at least you're put back. Whereas in the case of a, of a, of a human trafficking scenario, you're lucky if you ever get home, right?

So I think people need to think of alien abductions more, liken them more to, uh, being abducted by, by sexual traffickers, by sex traffickers, rather than some kind of a spiritual experience. And people say, well, the orbs and this and that. Look, the orbs, I think it's, I think it's clear, but this is my opinion. The orbs that people see often before an abduction, people will see orbs in their bedroom or something. Those are probes. Those are like drones. That's technology.

And people who are abductees often have recurring dreams of being floating in a prone position through their walls or up through their ceilings or through their windows. Um, and this is because the, the technology employed, its technology employed by the, by the aliens, is a technology which allows for the transport of your body. I don't believe through walls or up through ceilings, by the way. I believe only through windows. And there's, there's, there's a lot of, uh, very interesting evidence that abductees really only go through windows. They remember going through walls and ceilings because of the, the experience is so traumatic. But when you actually boil it down, there's, there's good reason to believe, when you actually take a look at, at the evidence, there's good reason to believe that that abductees only go through windows when they're transported, levitated and transported out of a house. And that only happens, by the way, only happens when there is a craft in proximity.

So if the craft is in proximity, what happens is it shines a light through a window. If you are being abducted from a room that does not have windows, the alien, the little Grays, take you, usually lead you by the hand through your house into a room that does have a window, and then you're taken through the window through this beam of light. That's technology. Now, we don't understand that technology, but it's technology. We can contemplate it because we, we have things like Star Trek and Star Wars, and we can contemplate that kind of technology, but we don't understand it yet.

So, and when, when the craft is not in proximity, the abductees are usually taken by the hand. Sometimes they're levitated. Sometimes they're floated. Usually taken by the hand by these little beings. So if you have recurring dreams of holding hands, of like toddler things, and you're being led through your house, you know, down the stairs, through the kitchen, out the front door, through the front yard, through the field, in the backyard, through the woods, out into a field where the craft has landed, and you're led up into the craft. So, and the reason why that's done is because the craft is not in proximity. It's not deploying this technology that allows you to be transported through the window.

And what I'm trying to demonstrate here is that this is a physical experience being conducted by corporeal creatures. These are, these are not good guys. These are, these are not. It is nefarious. And the, and the, and the purpose of it is to, it's a breeding program. And it's the purpose is to create a hybridized race of beings who are who are part human, part alien. They look like us, but they retain the remarkable, uh, um, psychokinetic capabilities of the aliens, telepathic capabilities of the aliens. Very scary scenario because, basically, you have like, again, to use a movie reference, you have like Sith Lords walking around who look like us, but who have very, very potent, uh, telepathic capabilities. And they're objective, they're, they're like, they're agents, they're secret agents on the Earth that look like us, but that are not us. And their sole objective is to operate, uh, um, in conform with the plan of the, of the, of the incin.

This sounds like science fiction. This sounds like crazy stuff. I'm telling you, just do the homework. Stay away from the junk material from contactees and all the bogus garbage on the internet. Read the materials from these lettered professors, from these the historians, the psychiatrists, the, the university, in the case of Carla Turner, uh, the university-trained, uh, researchers. Go to that material because that's where the evidence is. The kind of evidence that that would pass in a court of law. Not people's visions and dreams and whatever. That's all nice, but I'm talking about the evidence. Go to the evidence and then make your judgment. Don't listen to me talking and say I'm a heretic or whatever because you don't like what I'm saying. Go to the evidence. Read the evidence and then make your draw your conclusion. And I, and I, or read my book, the chapter on the alien threat, because I, I lay out the evidence in, in this chapter. And it's, it's time to get in front of this stuff because it's coming, whether you like it or not. It's here.

What I really appreciate, uh, you know, about you and the way that you write your book and the way that, you know, you explain these things is, if people will just listen, at the very least, someone has would have to admit, if they're going to be reasonable, logical, and truthful, they would have to at least admit, "I see where Tim's coming from." You know, even if they don't agree. And the reason I'm saying that is because I know for a fact, for one thing, I'm going to put this up unedited, so you know, I'm not going to remove anything that you say. But I also know for a fact, uh, that I'm going to get messages about it. And I probably will have people that break off contact with me over this, which I think is incredibly immature. And if somebody is going to do that because of something like this, then I say, well, I don't see how we were really friends anyway, because that is a ridiculous thing to stake a friendship on.

But if people will just listen, and like you said, not have this emotional knee-jerk reaction to it, just listen. There at least is a reason. There at least is a, a legitimate reason. You bring up, you bring up legitimate concerns. You bring up reasons to believe, uh, that these things are not demons. They're still demonic, like you said, which I do want to ask you about, um, because I, I want to ask you about, like, these, the history of these things, how they got mixed up in this satanic war. And there's a lot more to talk about. And I know some of that's going to be speculation. But I do want, I do want to talk about that. But, but before that, uh, there will be people that have that reaction. And it's like, look, if you just listen, there's nothing that's threatening to the gospel here. There's nothing that's going to damage anybody here, unless they're kind of already a weak Christian. And if that's the case, that's more of the fault of the church, you know? Why, why haven't we as Christians been preparing people to hear out other points of view on a matter that is as mysterious as, as this is? You know, that is as, you know, to use the word, no pun intended, but that is as alien as, as this is. You know, it's something that's completely outside of our normal, uh, human experience.

So where, where, as Christians, where do we get off leading the church thinking that we already know everything about it, and it is exactly this one interpretation, it can't be anything else? And if you dare even think that it might be anything else, and, and especially if you dare open your mouth to express your opinion and ask good questions, if you dare do that, well, then you're a heretic. And we're going to break off fellowship. I mean, that to me is just so immature and so ridiculous. It has no place in ministry, you know? I, I, th this is something that we as Christians should be having open conversations, even debates, you know, friendly debates are good. Uh, we, but we should be open and realize that, you know what, whatever the correct interpretation really is, and whoever has it, we're all still brothers in Christ. Because like you said, Tim, the gospel is the most important thing. That is the thing that we hinge everything on, not our interpretations of aliens. Although that is an interesting thing, and it's very important, especially to those who have been abused by these things, whatever they are. It still isn't something that defines our faith.

Yet, there are Christians out there who, and not only the alien question, but many other things, they will let these things be the one, the one thing where they, they hold it above the gospel. Where they say, you know what, this is more important than God's commandment of loving each other. And, you know, and also loving God. I don't want to love my brother in Christ because, uh, he's just not a brother in Christ. He doesn't agree that, on this demonic alien thing. So that must mean he's not a true believer. I don't have to love him. And there we go. That's a very convenient excuse for people to hold. But I know I'm going to get messages on it, and I, I can pretty much predict exactly what they're going to say. So I'm just saying, for everybody right now, you may as well not even bother, because all it's going to do is annoy me. If you have, if you have that attitude, and if, if that is the attitude, and I don't mean don't ask questions, if you just have a question about it, then by all means, message me. I, I would love to talk about it. But if you're going to have the attitude that Tim's not a real Christian, he's a, he's a heretic, why would you have someone on your show, Josh, that is talking about this? I don't agree with it. You know, if you're going to have that attitude, you may, and if you're, if you're heading towards the, the path of breaking off fellowship with me over it, you may as well just do it and not say anything to me about it, because I'm not going to change my mind in allowing people to express their opinions on this stuff. I want to hear all sides of, uh, this, this strange phenomenon. I want to know what's going on. And I don't think that we can do that if we just pick one side, stick with that, and then never hear anybody else. I think that's foolish and immature.

It's like people right now who are upset with the Democrats because we know, we know, those of us who are not Democrats, that that, that this election was stolen. We know it was. We see proof of it. We see, you know, Giuliani out there, uh, Powell out there, and others, presenting proof. And so we're saying, look at the proof, look at the evidence, look at what they're actually saying, look at the sworn affidavits, right? And what do the Democrats say? Their minds are already made up. Proof that's not proof. This isn't. No, no, no. This isn't. That's what I'm telling you. People who are looking at me saying, oh, no, no, Tim's wrong, this is demonic. Is look at the evidence. Look at the evidence. Okay? Read the material. Look at the evidence. Read my book. Because if you think that I'm a heretic, and if you read my book and think that I'm a heretic, then maybe you're the heretic. Because, because this is, I lay out the gospel in this book from start to finish. And my purpose in this book was to help people solidify their faith in Christ, not, not, not cause people to waver in their faith. If you, you read my book to its conclusion, you're going to see that my objective is to solidify people's faith in Christ, to get people grounded in the gospel of Christ, so that they're ready for the things that are coming, including the alien threat, including these paradigm-busting realities that are coming. That's my purpose.

So before you go and call me a heretic or something, read my book to its conclusion. Yes. And, and, and look at the evidence. Listen to the argument. React with your mind, not with your emotions. Grow up. And I say that to myself too. I've had to do a lot of growing up. I'm, the things I'm saying right now to the audience is the things I, I had to tell myself. I need to grow up. I still need to grow up. I need to react with my mind and not with my emotions. I need to consume information, look for the truth, um, weed out the, the, the evidence from things that are, that are coming from sources that are unreliable. And I'm not saying sources like Josh and Derek and Tom and Steve. Those are valuable sources. Those are very good sources. And, and, and all those guys. I'm talking about the New Age crap online. Those are the sources that I'm saying, don't, don't, don't listen to the, um, don't listen to the, uh, New Agers. Don't listen to the, uh, contactees. Just shut all that crap up. Listen to the PhD guys. Listen to the people who know how to do real research, who interview thousands of abductees, who have their their careers on the line researching this stuff. Look at the evidence. And if you're not willing to do that, then you don't really have the right to opine on this subject. Or at least, or at least your opinion really doesn't matter because you haven't done the homework, right? Once you've done the homework, then you can say, you know, I've looked at it. Okay, but I still think they're demons. Okay, that's fine. I don't have any problem with that. That's fine. I, I don't have any problem. I have the problem with the people who lash out emotionally, yes, um, who are immature, and all they, all they are is divisive. Right? That's all they are is divisive. They think they're holding some kind of a biblical standard, you know, but really, all they're being is divisive and immature and, and, and to some degree unintelligent because they haven't done the homework.

So, um, and that is a, that again, that is an admonition to all of us. Not, not picking on anybody. That's an admonition to me. If I got a problem, I got to look at the, I have to understand somebody's position. If I got a problem with something you've said or written, I need to take the time to understand your position. Exactly. Exactly. And if I don't, then I don't, I don't have the right really to opine because I don't understand your position. All I'm going to do is sow discord otherwise. And those who sow discord are not operatives for the Kingdom of Heaven. Quite the opposite. Yeah, that's absolutely right. Paul said to stay away from revilers. And that's what a reviler is. It's somebody who's verbally abusive and, and, and divisive like that. And, and who, who says that they're just standing up for God and the Bible, but they're really not. They're standing up for their own interpretations or their own opinions. Because if you don't validate it, then to them, it's like a personal attack. You know, even if they don't see it that way, that's exactly how they're projecting it.

And, and, you know, and I want to make very clear what I said before, because I know some people are going to, uh, uh, mishear it or misconstrue it and say that I'm saying something that I didn't say. I'm not saying break off fellowship if, if you don't agree, you know, with him or with me. Or like, because right now, me, this is me doing my homework. You know, I want to hear all sides of this, uh, issue. And I know that I cannot get a full grasp on the whole UFO problem unless I hear all sides, unless I hear out all evidences and all interpretations of evidences and decide which goes best with reality, which can be tossed out, which goes best with the, the Bible. We have to be able to hear out all things, because I can't just invent every interpretation in my own mind to consider it. I need other people for that. And so, what, what I'm getting at is, is, you know, if you disagree, fine. You know, you're, you're, you're not any more or less of a Christian if you just simply disagree. There's nothing wrong with that. You don't have to agree. You don't have to disagree. You know, look, like Tim said, look at the evidence yourself. And then, you know, wherever you decide is is the best, uh, to, to make sense of all of it, then, you know, go with God. Go with that. But have the humility to not break off contact or break off, uh, fellowship with other people who disagree. And then, that, that's what I'm saying. If somebody is going to watch this video and say, well, I need to, I need to message Josh right away because I can't believe that he would, he would promote this kind of stuff on his show. And I have gotten messages like that. I've gotten messages like that from friends of mine, even. And I'm, I'm just saying, don't bother, because I don't believe I'm doing anything wrong by by entertaining a possibility, especially on something like this. It's not like we're talking about anything that's anti-gospel. I would be wrong if I had somebody, unless I was witnessing to them. But if I had somebody on to, okay, tell us how Jesus isn't the Messiah or something like that, okay, then I could see you got a point. You know, that would be wrong unless I'm bringing that person on to witness to him and or do a debate or something. But, um, if I was, if I was upholding that as like a legitimate possibility, then I'm in error. Then that, that's, uh, heretical. But something like this, I, I'm saying, if, if you're so threatened by that, and you're wanting to message me privately and and say, you know, Josh, you were in error, you're going to be, uh, hurting Christians, or I can't believe that you would have him on to talk about this, I can no longer fellowship with you, then if you're going to have that attitude, my, the my request is, don't bother messaging me. Just break off fellowship. Let it be your decision to do that. Don't, don't, don't make it sound like it's something I'm doing, because it's not. Uh, because I'm totally open to all possibilities with this. I, I, I have no interest in breaking off contact with somebody who, or fellowship, who agrees or, or disagrees on on this issue. I, I think that it's wise for us all to to examine the evidence. I believe Tim has done that. I know that Tim has looked at, uh, all of the possibilities because he writes about them in his book. And this is what, this is the conclusion he came to. And I see where he's coming from. And so all I'm saying is, like, look, we as Christians, especially in these end times, we have to be open to looking at possibilities, even if we have an emotional reaction at first, because we don't know if the end times are going to play out this way. You know, like, for example, I'm personally, I'm a pre-tribulation rapture guy, but I am not at all dogmatic about that. I'm not threatened by any of the other, uh, possibilities. They might be right. It might be post-trib. And if it is, I'm, I want to be prepared for that, you know? And so if I start seeing stuff happen that's like prophesied in the Bible, that's supposed to be in the tribulation, then I'm going to think, okay, well, I was wrong about my pre-trip thing. I don't want to take the mark of the beast.

Josh, you have no obligation to placate people who are entrenched in tribalism. None. Because you and I can say right now, the Earth is round, and you'll have how many people telling you they're going to disassociate with you now, and that we're heretics. Okay? I mean, or you can say, I like Christmas. Same thing, right? You can say, make commentary on the tribulation. Same thing. Yep. Commentary on the feast days. Same thing. Or talk about aliens. It's the same garbage. People in this community, and I'm going to say this, okay, because I'm in this community. Yeah. And I'm going to say this. People in this community are getting too tribalistic. Yes. And they need to stop. It's ridiculous. And it's not increasing anybody's knowledge of anything. It's, it's, it's collectively making us all dumber. And we need to knock it off. You need to be able to have hold your own opinions without accusing other people of being shills or Illuminati or Masons or or deep state or whatever, or deep fakes. That is infantile. We must mature. We must grow in the knowledge of Christ, in the knowledge of the gospel, and in the knowledge of the things that are happening on the Earth. And do it in a way that increases our cohesion as believers, not in a way that causes us to fraction off into all these different camps. Screw tribalism. I don't have any time for it. I don't have any patience for it. And, and I commend you, Josh, because you don't either. I don't, I won't placate to any of you out there. I won't placate to flat earthers. I won't placate to the people who celebrate the feasts. I won't placate to people who think Christmas is pagan. I don't care. And your positions don't make me angry. You can hold those positions all day long. I don't mind. Doesn't offend me, right? But I'm not going to placate to you. I've got my own opinions. I've got my own worldview. I'm anchored in the gospel. And I can fellowship with anybody who believes in the gospel of Christ. Amen.

And, you know, and I, and I do. I sit around, I spend a lot of time sitting around smoking cigars, kicking around ideas with people who disagree with me, laughing and having a good time, and, and, and ending the day, you know, uh, very much still friends. Yeah. If you can't do that, it's because you're, you're, you're a child. You're a petulant child. Exactly. Sorry. Some of the best conversations I've ever had were with mature people who completely disagree with me, but know how to have a conversation without it becoming an emotionally divisive kind of thing. I, I like hearing out other people's points of view. It's interesting to me, you know? It, it's one of those things that to me makes life worth living. I, I, I enjoy, you know, trying out different perspectives, seeing what fits best. It's all part of growing and learning. And, and I didn't always used to be like that. Like you, like you said before, that, you know, you're, you're talking to yourself here, in a lot of ways. I'm talking to myself too. Because before I got into ministry, a couple of years before I got into ministry, a few years, uh, before that, I, I was, I was really spiritually immature. And I was absolutely the kind of person that would that would say that you're not a real Christian if you don't believe in this or that minor, non-salvational thing. I was caught up in that. And I would actually go online and troll people. I didn't think that that's what I was doing, you know? I thought I was standing up for God and standing up for the Bible. And I, you know, but, but really, I was just being a prideful jerk. And so, like, I'm intimately aware of how that that mind process works. And there's a lot of people that have never broken out of it, and they're still in it today. Some of them are in ministry, some of them aren't. Some of them are are just kind of like self-proclaimed teachers on on YouTube that no one really follows and doesn't really have an impact. Some of them do have a big impact. And so one of the main things that I, I try to tell my audience is how to identify these people. Like, I don't name names, but I, I do name, like, you know, qualities that they'll see, certain certain things that you can pick out to find out if somebody is is really in this for the right reasons, or if they're just kind of being prideful and they're in it for themselves. I mean, they're, they're easy to pick out. But, but most importantly, I, I want to make sure that my audience, um, who, who aren't already thinking like this, don't become like this. Who they, they, they don't, they don't get pulled into this deception where they think that they have to, that this is how you stand up for the Bible. You're basically, you know, a trollish jerk online, and you're denying the first two, the most important commandments that Jesus said, love God and love each other. You know, I mean, the Bible says you can't even have the love of God if you don't love your brother. It's incredibly important.

Um, I, I do want to, uh, continue this. I want to talk more about the, um, the, the history of these beings, how they got kind of mixed up in this satanic war. Uh, but before do, where can people follow you online and where can they find your book?

You can follow me online by signing up for my mailing list at on Timothy Alo.com. The sign-up form, right now, it's at the bottom of the website. Go all the way to the bottom by the contact form. I'm going to move it. It's just there temporarily. Um, I haven't really done work on that website for a while. I got to take a few days and and revamp it. Um, so you can sign up for my mailing list and I'll be sending out periodical, um, updates and the stuff I'm doing. So I'm doing a lot of stuff right now, not just writing this. Not, I completed this book, but I'm entrenching some other projects too that are very interesting. Um, and you can get my book on Amazon. That's the only place that's being sold right now. And, uh, it's currently a bestseller on Amazon. So, uh, you just type my name in and you might, it should be the first thing that pops up. It's been sort of working its way up from like number 10 when you just write my type my name and and now it's getting finally, I think, uh, up to the top of the list. So just type my name, Timothy Alino, Tim Alino, or type in Tim Alino Birthright on Amazon and, and, and you'll find it. And it's still time. It's, you people should be in time still to get copies before Christmas. Most of them are shipping. It's, it's on Amazon Prime. So if you have a, uh, Prime account, you should be able to get it before Christmas.

Excellent. Sounds good. All right. Hey, if you want, it's a good gift. If you wanna, uh, maybe I shouldn't say this. If you got, if you have a friend that you want to maybe, uh, expose them to some paradigm-busting, potentially offensive content, my book is a, is a, is a good tool for that. And I say offensive in a sense that, you know, not offensive like in a bad way, but but content that really causes you to have to expand your paradigm, right? And and challenge some of your preconceived notions, right? Which is very healthy for everybody. Oh, yeah, yeah. So it's only going to be offensive to those people, people who are are kind of more on the spiritually immature side and who, who, who don't enjoy, um, thinking about things outside of what they already believe. If, if you're stuck in that mindset, then yeah, I mean, any, any book that conflicts with anything you believe will be offensive. But, um, if you're like me, if you're, if you're kind of open-minded, you're not threatened, and, and you just want to see what, uh, somebody else thinks and actually has a lot of good reasons, a lot of good sources, a lot of citations and things, uh, other rabbit trails to kind of go down, this, this is an excellent, excellent book, an excellent resource for that kind of thing. I highly suggest everybody go check it out.

We got a lot more to talk about. I want to continue our discussion about the, these alien beings, U, but we also have to talk about this new golden age that's coming, the post-human paradigm, where green technologies are going, and how they're going to be utilized at the end of this age. And lastly, how the story of Jacob and Esau really tie this whole thing together. It is what this entire series has been heading towards. You don't want to miss it. Uh, it's incredibly powerful. Tim, I want to talk more about, um, these, these beings, these aliens. What, what is, like, what's their history? And I know, I know it's speculative because we don't really know, but we know our history, we know human history, sort of. Um, but what, what is their history? What is their status? How did they get mixed up? If, if they're not demons, but they are demonic, were they always like that? Or did they start off as kind of us? And they, like, how, how does this, how does this all, how does this all work from, like, the moment of creation till today? Explain the universe, Tim.

Yeah, I was going to say, I think the best answer is, I don't know. I, I posit some, some interesting possibilities in my book, um, regarding these aliens. There's, there's, there's no reason to believe that the cosmology of, of, of all that is, uh, is limited to angels, demons, and human beings, right? Right. So that's a very limited cosmology. And there's no reason to believe that that's, that's, that that is the limit of all sentient life on Earth in, in the cosmos. And so I don't know what these things are. I just know what they're doing. And nobody knows where they are or what they are or where they came from. But, but we do know what they're doing. We, and we know it scientifically. We, we can prove that they're doing what they're doing. And I kind of, I, I think I know why they're doing what they're doing. I think a lot of other researchers know, have a pretty good idea why they're doing what they're doing. We don't know what they are. We do know that if you shoot them, they will die. We know that if they crash in their ships, they will die. That's another aspect of their, of this that sort of debunks this notion that they're demons or spiritual beings. No, they're physical. Um, there's, there's accounts of abductees who've wrestled with them, who've, who've knocked them down, who've knocked them on the head with their hands, other objects, uh, who are resisting, uh, the, the, the abduction encounter, and, and who have, who have maimed and hurt these things. So I know that they're physical. I know that, uh, they're extremely intelligent. I think the small Grays, um, there's, there's, there's two kinds of small Grays. There's one, there's a, there's a class that are about three and a half feet tall, and then there's another class that are about four and a half feet. They look, they look similar. Um, I do know that they're, they're, they're very drone-like in their mannerisms and in their, in their disposition. They're very stoic. Uh, the, the, the larger creatures, the incin, which are more spindly and their heads are shaped kind of like parking meters, some people refer to them as the Mantis beings, that those creatures are exceedingly intelligent. That they have extremely powerful, um, uh, telepathic capability, and that they can manipulate the human mind. Were they created for some particular purpose and then corrupted? Your guess is as good as mine. But that's certainly a possibility. Were they manufactured by the quote unquote fallen angels? Your guess is as good as good as mine. I don't know. That's, that's a possibility. I, I tend to think not, but it's, it's a possibility. I, I just know they're not demons, not in the correct definition, not according to the correct definition of demons, which we defined in the last segment. So now we can say with certainty that these are not traditional demons as we know them, the, the, the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. They're not those. Um, so what are they? Are, are they, are they some other kind of? Are they from the interior of the Earth? Well, their big bulbous eyes, their almond-shaped dark eyes would suggest that their, that their biology is, is, uh, has a seems to be designed for, for a low-light environment. I think we can say that, right? Yeah. So are they, are they from the interior of Mars? I don't know. Um, but I do know that they are in possession of advanced technology. They're flying around in saucer discs, saucer-shaped, bell-shaped, teardrop-shaped craft, and other, and other kinds of craft. And I know that they certainly are trafficking through, uh, our airspace, and they're certainly capable of moving through the outer atmosphere. So these are things that are known, and these are things that are known scientifically, and I think are beyond dispute. Yeah. Um, so all the, all the other questions are, are unknown. How long have they been here? Right? They've been here in my estimation. Interesting, because I, in the course of writing my book, I actually conjectured as I was writing this book. I, I, I, I postulated that that I, from what I've seen and from what I know, from what I've encountered in this with this phenomenon, that I estimated that the Grays have been around since the mid to late 1800s. Really? Now, one day I was at the gym working out, listening to to Dr. David Jacobs, who, by the way, I think is a phenomenal researcher. I, I think he is. Jacobs, and Hopkins, who died, and John Mack, who died, those three, plus I'd throw in Carla Turner, although I think Carla Turner got off and I think she got, uh, um, a little bit, she was involved with some other people who were, I don't think were giving her the best information. But, but, um, I, I was listening to Jacobs one day at the gym, give a lecture, and he, he said, to my surprise, that he believed that the abduction phenomenon, and Bud Hopkins also believed that the abduction phenomenon began in the late mid to late 1800s. H. And I, and so that kind of strengthened my, um, my, my position. It bolstered my own position that it began in the mid to late 1800s. And I think it corresponds with the rise of spiritualism, which is interesting. I talk about there's a, there is some kind of a strange interlace between the rise of spiritualism in the late, in the mid to late 1800s and the abduction and the, and the appearance of the mystery airships. And let me say that for those who are familiar with the topic, the mystery airship phenomenon that happened in the late 1800s at the turn of the century, uh, a lot of people say that Jafet makes this case that that the phenomenon is morphing itself to, um, presenting itself according to the zeitgeist of each new generation. So if, in the 18, if in the late 1800s, you know, you had like people reading Jules Verne, and you had in the Jules Verne novels, the steampunk fantasies, right? Where you have the, the big balloon craft with the basket with the, you know, with the propellers and the flapping wings, and, you know, people who are familiar with Jules Verne, steampunk. So then people were seeing the, they were the, the, the phenomenon was manifesting itself as, as these steampunk craft. I don't think so. I don't think so. If you look at the accounts, if you really, uh, scrutinize the accounts of what was being reported in terms of UFOs back in the turn of the century, of the 18th, 18th to 19th century, uh, you're going to find that when you get down to the details, they're describing the same type of phenomena that we see today. Huh? And, and what I believe is that they're extrapolating onto what they're seeing, because most of these people are just seeing this, just like today's UFO sightings, distant objects darting through the sky. They're extrapolating. They're, they are superimposing the steampunk concept onto the craft because there, they didn't understand aerodynamics, right? In at that time. I mean, the Wright brothers hadn't breached the skies yet with with their with their aeroplane. So, so if you are a person living in the late 1800s, your only concept of flight and the mechanisms necessary for flight are from Jules Verne or from the steampunk fantasy type stuff, then when you see an object darting through the sky or hovering, your mind is going to begin to say, okay, in order for that thing to be, how can it be flying? How can it be moving up in the sky without propellers or flapping wings, right? So for you're going to extrapolate. People do this all the time, by the way. I mean, even with memory today, it's a proven fact that today, if somebody recalls, has a memory, that people's memories can are easily manipulated, even in court. Your memory can be manipulated. So if you have, if somebody plants a seed in one of your memories about some object, for example, if you're, let's, let's make it relevant to the late 1800s, if you're a person who saw a saucer, just like today, moving through the atmosphere, and later on, you're talking to somebody, and they're asking you, but didn't it have propellers? Must have had propellers and wings, right? I mean, it had to have, like, how could it just be floating there? It had to have balloons. Oh, okay. Maybe it did. Yeah, yeah, I guess you're right. Maybe, maybe I don't. And then later on, you're going to recall that that encounter as, and it had some propellers and flapping wings. This is happens all the time, right? It's this is this is this is not a new phenomenon, the way that people remember things in this in this way. So, uh, I, I don't believe that the, that the phenomenon was manifesting itself to fit into the zeitgeist of the late 1800s, early 19th, uh, early 20th century. No, I believe that people were superimposing. That people were extrapolating, uh, uh, the mechanisms that they believed were necessary for flight. Remember, they didn't know what aero, they didn't understand aerodynamics. So the only thing that people at that time knew that that could fly were balloons, right? Okay. So this is, in my opinion, very clearly what's happening. Because, because people are, in those accounts, they are describing shiny metallic things that are darting through the sky. Okay? Now, you tell me, how, how an object, how an airship with big balloons and propellers is going to dart through the sky, right? So something's wrong here. Either the descriptions of the movement, the maneuvers are correct, uh, or, or the description of the craft is correct. Is correct. They can't both be correct. Balloons don't dart through the sky. So, so I think very clearly, you know, people.

Are, are, are the that the mystery airships were, were extrapolation, um, of of the same kind of craft that we see today? Where, where, where Jules Verne, um, conceptualizations of of the very same craft we see today? Uh, saucer-shaped, teardrop-shaped, triangular, um, bell-shaped craft, usually metallic, usually shiny, that are moving through the sky in impossible ways, impossible according to our current understanding of physics. It's understand, or it's, uh, interesting too, because around that time is when we had our own, uh, technological explosion. And, you know, I've wondered this before too. Uh, when me and Derek were writing our book, you know, I thought, we, we know that we got some kind of technological understanding from, you know, the, the, the rebellious, uh, beings or the, the, the, the Fallen Sons of God, or whatever we want to call them. People usually say Fallen Angels, but, um, at Mount Hermon, we, we got some kind of technology from from them. You know, warlike kinds of things. You know, it made me wonder, I wonder if something similar happened. If, if there are alien races out there, they're just minding their own business on their own planet, and one day they're also given a technological boost, but a bigger one than ours. And maybe it's because we're made in the image of God and we've got some kind of level of protection, whereas they don't. You know, I, I, I don't know. But was there something about that time period, about that the 1800s, that might explain it? And is it, is it that, and I know we're just speculating because we don't really know, but is it, is it that these beings like existed since creation, and it was just at that point for some reason they decided to abduct people? Or were they created at that, at that point? Or maybe enslaved by some other alien race? What are your thoughts on that?

The phenomenon that was sweeping the Earth, that that coincides with the mystery airship phenomenon, is the phenomenon of spiritualism. People, and we forget this, most people don't realize what was going on at the turn of the century. Millions of people across the globe, millions and millions of people, were practicing the occult simultaneously. In the, in at the turn of the century, in the early 20th century, it was just as common for people in America to go to a séance as to church, as to Sunday, Sunday morning church service. Séances were being conducted in the White House. Um, it was all the rave to try and contact the dead and other entities, by the way, through the medium, uh, of a, um, through the agency of a medium, uh, a psychic. So if you have a race of entities out there somewhere that are extremely, that have extremely powerful psychic capabilities, telepathic capabilities, and you have millions of human beings on Earth tapping into spiritualism through the, through, through the agency of a psychic, is it possible that we were broadcasting some kind of a wavelength or something that was picked up? And like a, like a fish following a, we drew these these entities in? And, and is it possible that the dragon orchestrated this? I think it is, and I postulate that in the book. Now, I don't know that that's the case. For all I know, the Grays come from under the earth. I don't know, from, from, from the inner earth, from the hollow earth. I don't know. But, but, but certainly there is a correlation between the rise of spiritualism, on the heels, by the way, of Blavatsky, uh, who was really instrumental in this, and the, um, theosophists, and, uh, and the UFO phenomenon, which was called the mystery airship phenomenon. Which, by the way, the nomenclature was dropped, and the, and those wild, fanciful descriptions faded from the papers, um, and, and, and were dropped after, after the Wright Brothers breached the sky with the with their airplanes. So once we started to understand aerodynamics and started to create airplanes, and and pilots were were flying through the skies with our own flying mechanisms, we dropped all this ridiculous stuff about balloons and propellers. And now we just understood these craft as some metallic objects, shiny things, you know, darting through the sky. So, um, it wasn't until the, the, the famous, uh, uh, sighting by Kenneth Arnold over Mount Rainier, the, what was described as skipping saucer-like, uh, boomerang objects that were skipping like saucers across water, that that the term "flying saucer" came into our vernacular. But we're talking about the same objects. So I think that the Grays were drawn to the Earth because of the, the spiritualism. By the way, there is also a very strong correlation, even today, between your neighborhood psychic and, and becoming a candidate for abduction. Huh?

So, uh, I believe that, uh, the, the Grays are using psychics to identify individuals who have a predisposition to telepathy, because the Grays control people through, uh, their telepathic capabilities. So I believe this. People are going to think this is controversial. I don't see really why, to be honest with you. But I believe that Adam, I believe that human beings had a telepathic capability, and we still do to some degree. It's called, we have an empathetic, an empathetic, uh, capability today. We do. Uh, and it's undeniable. You and I, if we're sitting in the same room, if I walk into a room, Josh, and you're sitting in the room, you could be on the other side of the room. If you are having very negative feelings towards me, I can, I can pick up on that. Oh, yeah. I'm an empathic person. A lot of us are. Yeah. It's not some kind of a demonic, supernatural thing. It's, it's, it's built into our biology, our chemistry. We, human beings are empathic. We can sense each other's emotions, even without seeing your face sometimes. And there's certain individuals who are more empa- empathic than others. We all, we all know these people, and a lot of us are these people. We get a feeling sometimes, people have a feeling that somebody has, yeah, is angry with them without ever even seeing them. Just they get the sense like this, I feel like this person's upset with me for some reason. You probably have that. Um, and you've come to find out that the person is ticked off with you for some reason. How did you know that? You're picking something up. It's, it's, it's an empathic ability that is innate in the human species. You want to know the best example of of an empathic ability that we have? We have it with animals. No, deny, you can't deny this. We are empathic with animals, and animals are empathic with us. We can sense how our animals are feeling, how our pets are feeling, and they can certainly sense how we're feeling. Dogs can, dogs know if you're depressed. They don't know what you're saying. They don't know what you're depressed about, but they feel your emotions. They pick up on your emotions. Um, and some animals are more empathic than others. This ability, this empathic ability, is is innate in the biology of living things. Certain living things, conscious entities, like like animals that are have a degree of consciousness, they're empathic. Dogs are very empathic, cats are empathic, human beings are empathic. Um, the question is, were human beings at one time telepathic? And I believe they were. I think that Adam could communicate, Adam and Eve could could communicate telepathically. This isn't some, again, this isn't some kind of demonic capability. I think this is was inherent in the biology of human beings, and we've lost this ability over time. We've lost the ability. We, at least, could receive, and can to this day, we can receive telepathic communications. Abductees do. And that's why I believe certain family lines are chosen for abduction. I believe it has to do with the this telepathic capability that is dormant, but nevertheless present in certain family lines. And so if you have a predisposition to telepathy, then you can be more easily controlled by the aliens, more easily manipulated, and those screen memories are easier to implant, and it's going to be harder for you to resist, to resist the telepathic capabilities of the aliens. And that's why you're chosen, um, uh, and in, and incorporating the abduction program. Um, so, and that's my speculation. But I, but, but certainly if you read Carla Turner's material, you're going to find out real fast that psychics, uh, are agents. It's almost like, sit on psychics, and I'm talking about your neighborhood psychic. It's almost like a dragnet in society that that the aliens are using to find, um, the, uh, people who are predisposed to that telepathic manipulation. So, so I believe that going to a psychic and getting a psychic reading opens you up to alien abduction, makes you a potential candidate. Yeah.

And I think, uh, you know, a lot of the reason that people get, you know, nervous about it is because, you know, New Age has done so much damage, you know, spiritualism, this, the, the dark occultic stuff, because, you know, they've taken that and kind of capitalized on it. And they've, they've taken the possibility that we may have had other abilities that we don't have now, which, which we know that at least we, we, like for example, we were able to live a lot longer before, we don't have that now. Um, but, you know, of course, there's going to be New Agers that'll twist that too, and they'll say, well, you can actually live longer if you do this, this, or that occult practice. So I don't care about New Age people. I don't care about New Age beliefs. I don't care what's New Age and what's not. Who cares? I only care about the truth. Exactly. That's all I care about. I only care about the truth. If somebody says, oh, that's New Age, what do I care? Most people don't even understand what New Age is. Okay? I know what New Age is. I've read Blavatsky. I've read Crowley. I've read a lot of the the top New Age people, Alice Bailey. I know the New Age. Don't accuse me of New Age. I know what New Age. I know what New Age is better than most people who accuse me of being New Age. It's okay. I'm not New Age. Telepathy is not New Age. Empathy is not, uh, empathic abilities are not New Age. Just because New Age people talk about it, it's very possible, uh, that human beings have a, a faculty, an inherent faculty, uh, that allows them, that at one time they had an active inherent faculty for telepathy. Big freaking deal. Okay? Big freaking deal. What's the big deal? Um, you know, we know we're empathic already, so there's a hint right there that if you take that one step further, could we also be? And most of us, we're just, we're broken down, you know, copies of Adam, and we've lost a lot of the capabilities that were inherent, in, in our pro-, our original progenitor. So, um, I, I can't prove that that we were inherently telepathic, but I, I, I suspect that we were. We are inherently empathic. Not empathic like, I always make this, huh, I'm always, I'm always making Star Trek references. Not empathic like Deanna Troi from, you know, the Next Generation Star Trek. Not in empathic on that level, but, but, but empathic on the level that we all already know we can feel each other's emotions. And, you know, what? Some people can't. Some people are very, um, some people are very empathic, and other people aren't. And we call that discernment. Yeah. We call that discernment. And it's a function of what we call discernment. And, and by the way, discernment is not, uh, is not exclusive to Christians. Discernment is, is, is a faculty of, of Homo sapiens. It's a, it's a, it's discernment is a, is an innate ability of, in, and built into the, in, into into some facet of human biology. Because there are plenty of secular people who are very discerning. I know some myself. Okay? I knew a man, and know a man still, who could, who could look at your, and this man, you know, he claims to be a Christian. He can look at a picture of, of, um, let me, let me preface this. He claims to be a Christian, but I know he's not because he doesn't, he doesn't really, uh, uh, believe in the gospel. He's just one of those people who, you know, claim to be a Christian. But he can look at a picture of somebody of your family and and begin to tell you things about your kids. He did it to a picture of my family, things that, you know, he couldn't possibly know. And he's discerning something. He's, there's something empathic there. Now, before people get all up in arms, I don't believe that we should be, uh, uh, trying to become more empathic or trying to have capabilities. I just think these are residues. These are latent abilities that our pre-, that our pre-flood ancestors, our antediluvian an-, were capable of. They were, they were remarkable people. Remarkable people, the antediluvians, much more remarkable than I think we we understand. Yeah. And of course, people should steer clear of the occult, should steer clear of the New Age, should steer clear of, of all of these, uh, psychics. Steer clear of psychics. And, um, I don't believe, I, I think all of that is is very clearly prohibited in, in the scriptures. But you can't say that being empathic is is sorcery. If that's the case, then we're all sorcerers because we're all empathic. I think the problem comes in when people try to, try to control it or try to, you know, kind of be be like the god over that kind of stuff. And, and like, for example, because there's, there's clear gifts of the Holy Spirit that that people have and, and can have. But there's also people who will either counterfeit it or they will try to control it themselves. Like these people that say, uh, that that they need to, they, they, they don't have 100% accuracy in prophecy because they're still learning how to walk in the gift of prophecy. Well, then that's not a gift of the Holy Spirit because that is putting man in control of it. I have to, I have to learn it. I have to learn how to operate in this gift of pro-. Well, that that automatically can't be the gift of the Holy Spirit because, gift of the Holy Spirit, it's not up to private interpretation because it's not by the will of man. You know, scripture clearly says that if, yeah, if it's, if it's truly a gift of the Holy Spirit, you don't have to practice it. You just, it just, it just happens, you know, because it's not really you doing it, it's the Holy Spirit. So, I, I think that's where the, the real issue, what's occult, what's not New Age, what's not, it's, it's who's controlling it. Is the person controlling trying to control this by their own will? Or is it something that God is doing in a person? That's a good distinction. Because, you know, if God endows you with with some gift to be of of of of whatever, then that is exactly, it's an end, it's an endowment, it's something that's given to you. But because all humans are empathic to some degree, right? You can be, you can learn to become more empathic. It's a natural, just like you can learn, you can run faster, right? You know, you can lift more weights, you can get smarter, you can learn another language. Uh, we're all empathic. You can learn to be more, people learn to be more empathic with their animals over time. They, they, they get a sense of what's going on with their animals. You learn that skill, you develop that. Um, and so what I think it happens in a lot, there's a lot of like workshops, especially in the charismatic circles, learn to be more prophetic, learn to be more, you know, um, um, you got to flex your prophetic muscle and all this. Believe me, I've heard a lot of this, and I've been around a lot of this. I think what's happening is really what's happening is a lot of these people are just just enhancing their empathic, their natural innate empathic capabilities that all humans have, and they're calling it prophetic. A lot of it. Which I think is actually pretty dangerous because then you start to, to, you get the labels mixed up, and you start to claim things are prophetic and from God when really you're just operating in in your natural capability to be empathic with human beings, other human beings. And when you cross those wires, you start to call things, you start to pronounce, make pronouncements in the name of God, which you, you shouldn't be crossing those wires, right? Because the gifts of the Holy Spirit are perfect, and natural abilities of man are not. You know, like, I might get it right nine times out of 10 if I try to guess what somebody's feeling by being in the in the same room, but I'm not going to have 100% accuracy in that or in any ability. You know, I can't, I can't, you know, lift an infinite amount of of weight, or I can't run an infinite distance. And it's the same with any human ability. There's, there's a limit. The only abilities that don't have a limit are those of the Holy Spirit. Um, and, yeah, I agree with you. That's a really good distinction. And I, I wanted to, okay, so this to kind of follow the the the the the last question and on to the next one. So around the 1800s, this, this is happening. What are, what are, are these beings? Because there's, there's several interpretations, there's, there's different ideas. I'm curious of your opinion. Um, what, what's in it for them? What, what is the the plan of the Grays? Or is it like the plan of the Mantis aliens, and they're enslaving the Grays? What, what is their end goal? And on, on the other end of that, with the backdrop of this new religion, how would this perceived alien threat come about? How will it be used to benefit those who want to bring in this new golden age? Or is this all the same thing? Are these different? You know, who, who's in it for, what's in it for who?

Well, those are very complicated questions. The Grays very clearly are are involved in a breeding program. The, the abduction program is a breeding program. They are creating hybrids, human-alien, alien-human hybrids that look like us, that can integrate seamlessly into human society without being detected. For what reason is is anyone's guess. Um, I believe that Dr. David Jacobs gets it right when, when he says that their objective is, in his estimation, planetary acquisition. They want to take over. They're they're subverting it's God. I can't help making, uh, no, go for it. I can't help drawing, uh, uh, um, analogies with the, uh, with with Star Trek. Uh, I don't know why. It's just, it just happens naturally. So forgive me for another Star. Totally fine. It's like the Borg, you know, in Star Trek. It's, it's kind of the opposite, the antithesis of the Borg, who come and they, they, if those are familiar with the Borg, they come and they integrate other cultures and technologies into their collective. Well, the Grays do the opposite. They're, they're their, uh, procedure is is precisely the opposite. They integrate themselves into your culture, into your civilization, and take over from within. They subvert. It's a, it's a subversive takeover rather than an open declaration of war. Um, they do it, uh, they do it by stealth. And so the Grays are integrating. They're becoming us. But they're retaining enough of the, enough of, enough of themselves in this genetic, um, cross-species genetic, uh, hybridization. They're retaining their capabilities, their telepathic capabilities. Again, this is a frightening scenario because you've got, you've got people who look like us, who are not us, who are part us, part them, but for all intents and purposes, they look human. But, but, but their brain composition, their, their maybe their souls, it's not us. And they're able, but they're able to manipulate us. So what are they doing? What are they doing this for? Well, the simplest explanation is is Dr. Jacobs' explanation, which is planetary acquisition. Um, and I think that's probably the right explanation. Um, and there's some very, very important and interesting principles that go along with that as it relates to the concept of the birthright and our dominion on Earth. Remember I said we have dominion on Earth? So how are the Grays able to do this? I, I provide some answers to that to that question in the book. Um, yeah, uh, which are very complicated. You kind of gotta, you kind of gotta go from A to Z to understand, um, to understand my thoughts on that. Um, but the Grays represent an existential threat, a true existential extraterrestrial threat. And I believe that the, are the Grays in league with the dragon? I don't know. I actually, if you let me flip to this real quick, um, I actually, I have three, um, I, I posit three, three potential scenarios, um, that really, and I don't, I don't hang my hat on one. Uh, I do actually, in the book, I, I lean towards two of them, but I don't, but I don't, I think all three of these alternatives are are possible, and and more besides, right? But these are the three that that, uh, stand out to me. Um, let me get my bearings here in the book. So, let me just read this. Okay, this clarifies, this will, this will give the best clarification, um, answer to your question. How does the program of the Incarnate relate to the machinations of the Dragon? It is inconceivable that the alien presence has caught the dragon princes, the Nordics, and you'll understand what I mean by that when you read the book, by surprise. They must have anticipated their arrival, or else arranged it. Admittedly, this is a particularly difficult nut to crack, as we are dealing with an intelligence considerably, considerably more depth than our own, which I think is apparent. Rather than commit to a single hypothesis, I humbly offer the following three alternatives. So here's the three alternatives. Alternative A: The Grays are controlled by the dragon princes. The breeding program is directly orchestrated by agents of the insurgency. The Incarnate are under their command. That's alternative A. Alternative B: The dragons are allied with the dragon princes. The breeding program is managed by the Incarnate as a part of as part of a larger strategy mutually beneficial to both parties. The Grays may be may be one of several alien factions who have joined the insurgency in preparation for the coming war. Alternative C: The Grays are autonomous. The breeding program has been initiated solely by the Incarnate for their own objectives. The dragon princes will likely take advantage of the alien threat to deceive humanity. So in all three of those alternatives, the dragon is going to make use of the alien threat. And I, I believe definitely the dragon is going to make use of, make use of the alien threat. Now, is the dragon orchestrating the alien threat, or is he just taking advantage of it? I don't know. Um, uh, I don't know. But, but he's definitely going to, at the very least, he's going to take advantage of it.

I want to get your opinion on this too, because this this brings up something that I've been, uh, uh, seeing, uh, in in a different, in a different perspective, but I've been kind of seeing this in our Christian circles lately too, is, uh, there are people that will look at someone with a different blood type and say that they can't be saved because they have, you know, Rh negative blood or something like that, which is, you know, obviously ridiculous. You know, anybody can be saved. So how do we, as Christians, um, if there are these these these hybrids that walk among us, and they look just like us, how do we avoid something like another Witch Trials thing where you have people or Christians that are thinking their neighbor is really a hybrid and thus not worthy of of trying to preach the gospel to? Or maybe even getting to the point where the paranoia is so deep that they wish to harm this person because they're convinced that it's an alien hybrid? H, how do we as Christians, how do we avoid all of that?

Well, you'll never know who's a hybrid and who's not. I mean, unless you're in some extraordinary circumstance in which you had definitive proof, you'd never know. And by the way, these, again, David Jacobs, he he describes these advanced hybrids, the ones that look like us, as HDs, as opposed to humans, right? HDs. And for all intents and purposes, like I said, they look like us. They're us. Um, but they're integrating into society right now. And they're doing so through, again, what Jacobs describes as personal project, uh, H, they're called personal project hybrids. In other words, they're attached to certain abductees, and the abductees are have a very interesting relationship with these hybrids. These hybrids who, they are, they are tasked with teaching these these HDs how to integrate into the day-to-day, to the day-to-day routine of of human life. You know, things as routine and rudimentary as, and knowing how to buy groceries, and knowing how to use a refrigerator, knowing how to use a television, knowing how to drive, um, um, um, how to interact with, socially interact with other human beings without being awkward, things like this. Um, and so the ones that are advanced, these these HDs are not going to be exposed to the rest of us, and until they're so advanced that they're virtually undetectable. So going around with conspiracies, this person or that person is a hybrid, is is, um, it's futile because we won't know. You won't know. They're not going to be truly integrated into society until they're undetectable. However, could they be detected through some kind of biological means, through blood or something like that? That's possible. However, let me say that it has nothing to do with the Rh negative stuff. I don't think there's any indication whatsoever that Rh negative has anything to do with Nephilim or aliens or anything like that. Exactly. I've never seen anything to that effect, and I think it's a, it's a, it's a dead-end rabbit trail, and, and there's, there's, you know, there's nothing to it. Um, uh, so I don't know. I mean, there there's going to be a genetic variance. These hybrids are going to be genetically different than us. It's impossible for them to be the same. They're not. You can't have beings that are are retaining some aspect of the aliens' own biology and have them be exactly the same as us genetically speaking. There, there's going to be variants. Um, are they going to be, are they could they be considered a subset, uh, uh, of the human species? Uh, I don't know. But there's going to be some kind of a variance that distinguishes distinguishes them, which, which again, we won't know. I mean, we're not going to go around genetically testing people for that. Now, is the government secretly doing that now? Josh, here's, here's an interesting thought. What if the government, and when I say the government, I'm not talking about your congressman, okay? I'm talking about, uh, the black ops, the black elements of the government, the deep, the deep, the deep elements of the military-industrial complex, right? Are they running some programs right now, maybe through vaccines, maybe through, who knows what, to try and detect these hybrids? I think very likely they are. I think they know the HDs are out there. They're frightened. They think they know that there's they're an existential threat, and they're trying to find out who they are. And the only way they can is to sample the whole, the collective human populace. We got a lot of those DNA testing kits around too, that's become so popular. Exactly, exactly. So maybe there's elements of the, of the, you know, deep, the deeper than the deep state, we're talking about the guys, we're talking about the guys that know everything about the the the the alien presence. Are they looking for the the HDs? Hey, I would be if I were them. Let's put it that way. If me and you were working at the highest levels of the Pentagon and we knew this was going on, you and I would come up with some kind of a, some some way to find them, right? I mean, this is a clear and present danger, not just to the United States, but to the, but to the human race, right? So we would be using every, every means possible to detect the hubs. Uh, and in fact, I hope they are trying to do that, to be honest with you. Oh, sure. So, so, um, again, it's no good, it's there's no, there's no, uh, it's futile to try and speculate on who's a hybrid, who who's a clone, who's this, who who's are that, right? You know, if these projects come to fruition, and and hubs are are integrated into society, the point is, you're not going to know. You know, you're not going to be able to zoom in on some video and see if they eyes look like a look like a a reptilian or something like that. That's all distractionary. That's all, um, none of that. I wouldn't put any kind of stock in any of that kind of stuff. Yeah, same here. Clear of that. Yeah, me too. And, and also, it, you know, it bears no significance on how we proclaim the gospel, how we, how we take the Great Commission. You know, I mean, it's even interesting in in the Bible, in, in, uh, I, I don't remember which version, but in one of the versions, it's translated as, you know, go, go and, uh, proclaim or or preach to every creature. It says the word creature. And I, I've thought about that before. And I read a, a really interesting book, and I forget the author, but there's, there's actually a book on it. And the idea is, is even if, like, if all this stuff is true about hybrids, and there's, there's, there's a modern-day Nephilim, and if all that's true, like you just said, the, the point is, we don't know who they are. So it's feudal to try and guess. We, we, our job is, it doesn't matter, preach the gospel to them. You know, it doesn't matter because you could be wrong, and you don't want to make that mistake. And think about that. If, if Christians, if they would have taken that seriously during the witch trials, you know, they wouldn't have been killing witches. They would have been trying to evangelize them. They would have been trying to reach them with the gospel. Um, in, uh, the age of discovery, when, when, you know, people that look different were were discovered in other countries, they wouldn't have been treated as subhuman. They would have been, it would have been like, okay, well, let's assume they're human. The excuse that, well, they might not be human, so let's not, you know, I've even heard people say, um, it is, it is feudal, it is pointless, it is, it is almost even sinful to pray for people like Bill Gates or Hillary Clinton or any of these people because they're so devil-infused, there's no hope. That is so foolish and so un-Christian. It's like, look, they, whatever you want to think about them, I, I disagree with a lot of things that they believe and think. But as long as they're drawing breath, there is hope that they can be saved. And wouldn't that be great if they could be? When we should be praying for that and stuff. And, and yes, we should be praying for God's judgment as well. You know, the apostles told us to pray for those who are in authority. And when, when the apostles were encouraging the early church to pray for those who are in authority, guess who was in authority? Caesar, exactly. Roman, Roman Empire was in authority. So essentially, they were instructing the people, the church, to pray for their local prefects and and their, uh, procurators and their local governors, but also to be praying for those in, in authority at the highest levels, the Roman Empire, right? Because Paul said that government was the was basically the arm of God to execute justice on evildoers. And of course, you can get very, you know, I'm not, I'm not, by the way, I don't advocate submitting to tyranny, right? I think we should resist tyranny. I think we should be resisting, for example, these lockdowns and these mass mandates and all of this. We should, people, it's time for civil disobedience. It's time for civil disobedience. And, you know, so I'm not one of those guys who thinks, oh, no, no, no, you know, whatever the government says, you got to submit. I'm not like that at all. I, I'm like in the John MacArthur camp. It's like, you know, it's Christ over Caesar. That's right. So, um, yeah, and, and I totally agree with that. And then, and then on the other end of it too, as far as like hybrids and stuff, because we're going to be talking about gene technologies and things, there is going to come a point, and actually we're there now, where hybrids do exist. Hybrids, to to one end or another, there there are people like that now. And there's so much that we don't understand or know about the human soul that we're not, we're not told. And I, I think that's by design because I think Jesus wants us to focus on, you know, the gospel and preaching the gospel, not saying, well, they're not human enough, so they don't get the gospel. And you, you, you know, I'm about, you know, I'm about to say something that's going to make a lot of people angry. Go ahead. What do I care anymore? Uh, look, um, this vaccine isn't going to make you not human, right? This vaccine that's out there. I'm, I don't, I'm not going to take it. I don't want to take that garbage. I don't put that garbage in my body. Same here. And I, and I don't think people should take it. You know, if you want it, but if you want to take it, take it. I don't care. I mean, it's not going to change your humanity, right? People are out there saying that's going to change you from, you're not going to be human after you take it. That's just not true. Um, is it going to mess with your DNA? Possibly. I'm not going to run that risk. I don't think it would make, it would it would invalidate my humanity. But I think it, I don't want to, I just don't want to screw with my biology in that way. Same here. And, and I totally agree with people who say, don't take this vaccine. It's dangerous. That's me. You know, I'm not going to take it. My wife's not going to take it. My kids aren't going to take it. And, and I'm going to be of those people who fights against it because I don't like what they're doing. I don't like screwing with our, I don't like messing with RNA. I don't like messing with the the DNA and the cells like this. Um, I think it's dangerous. And it's one step towards the ultimate, towards getting to the mark of the beast. I don't think we're close to the mark of the beast yet, by the way. I don't believe this vaccine is the mark of the beast. We're not going to wonder what's the mark of the beast when it when it happens. And it's not going to happen in our lifetime. I'm sorry. A lot of people think it's going to. And, and I know I'm cutting against the grain here, but I don't believe. I think, I think, you know, our kids and our grandkids are going to be seeing some pretty crazy stuff. Oh, yeah. Um, but, uh, our job is to prepare our kids and our grandkids. But, you know, it's like, it's like, you know, crying wolf, every time there's something that comes on the pipe, it's the mark of the beast. It's the end. It's the end times. It's the, it's the Antichrist. Yep. You know, people are going to start tuning that stuff out because everything is the mark of the beast. If everything's the mark of the beast, then nothing is the mark of the beast. That's right. Um, and the mark of the beast, and I, by the way, I talk about the mark of the beast from my perspective, is in my book. Um, and, uh, I think we got a long way to go still. When I say a long way, I mean, we, we're probably at the end of the age right now. Now, the end of the age doesn't mean that we're two days away from the return of Christ or two years away. It could mean that we're 200 years away. Because the end of the age, by the way, according to the ancients, um, the passing from one age to another, that tumultuous period, it's like, it's like 500 years. You know, because, uh, an age is about 2,500 and some years, roughly speaking. So, um, when you get into the last few hundred years, you're, you're in the end of the age. You're in the turning. You're in that turning point where one age turns into another, which is usually tumultuous. So I think we're there. Um, and, uh, I, I have a lot of high degree of confidence. I believe that the age that we're in now, the Age of Pisces, began with the birth of Christ, and it's going to end when, when we turn, when age turns to to Aquarius. By the way, this isn't, this isn't paganism. This isn't astrology. This is astronomy. And this is, this is the way that the ancients calculated calculated ages, the way the Hebrews calculated ages, by the way, it's called the Matzo Mataro, is the zodiac. So, astrology is trying to make predictions and trying to get into, it's getting into, um, um, it's getting into divination. Astrology, that's that's the garbage you want to avoid. Um, so, so having said that, um, I don't know what, what is the, what is that dividing line between human and non-human, human and transhuman, human and post-transhuman and posthuman? What are those dividing lines? I don't know. But I can tell you for certain, if somebody says, hey, there's this great biological upgrade in the future, you can upgrade your DNA, and by doing this upgrade, you can live 20 years longer, your vision's going to improve, you're going to be able to avoid these particular, uh, genetic, um, I always forget the word I want to say, genetic delinquency, there's a word for it, the genetic disease, but, but, you know, here's a caveat, this DNA has some animal DNA in it, you know, there's some, there's some, there's some, there's some genetic components here from a from a cat or something. I'm automatically automatically going to say, no, no, thanks. I don't want that. Because cross-species genetics, I believe biblically speaking, is an abomination. Yes. I think that's clear. Cross-species genetics is an abomination. So we can draw that line for sure. Yeah, definitely.

How about, how about gene therapy though? Now, if somebody comes to me and says, uh, you've got cancer, and your cancer is derived from this gene, this gene that you have is mutated and it's it's corrupted, and so that's why you have this cancer. But if we take somebody else's gene, like your wife's or somebody else's that's not mutated, and we do the gene therapy and we fix your mutated gene with this human sequence that's the correct one, I'm okay with that. Yeah. Because that's human, right? That's restoration. It's not glorification. You know, like I wear glasses because my eyes are bad. I'm restoring my sight just with a pair of glasses. I'm not giving myself night vision that I was never intended to have in the first place. You're, you're repairing the human genetic code. You're, you're, you're repairing the genome with human genes. Exactly. I've got no problem with that. You, I have no problem with people repairing their their genome with human genes. We do that with blood transfusions, right? You get human blood and I know some people are against blood transfusions. I'm not. I mean, you get human blood from another human being. Exactly. And, and, you know, you get, you can get a transplant of one of your organs from a donor that's in your family. So essentially, when you give birth to a baby, like my wife just did a few days ago, that baby's got a lot of my components in it. Yeah. In terms of genetically speaking. So that's natural. So I think gene therapy, as long as the gene therapy does not involve animal DNA, if you've got animal DNA, then then you're talking about a GMO human. I mean, I'm not for that at all. I think we, we should draw a, a very distinct definitive line there. Don't put any animal DNA in my body. Human DNA, fine. Animal DNA, forget it. Just like I wouldn't want a cat's blood transfused with mine, you know, transfusion from a cat. I don't want a cat's DNA in my body. I don't care if it gives me better vision or hearing. I don't want, I'm going to draw the line right there for sure. Now, is there some crossing here and blurring of the line? Probably. Like, like this, the vaccines that that screw with the RNA. I don't know. I mean, I'm not going to come out and say that if you, I will not say, and I don't know where you guys stand on this or the Skywatch people, but I will not say that if you get this vaccine, you are sinning or you are going to become irredeemable. I'm not going to say that. Us either. I don't, I don't understand the science, number one. I don't understand what the RNA thing is doing. I haven't looked into it. I don't want to get it because I don't trust it. Number one. That's pretty much exactly where we're at too. Yeah. I'm not going to say that it's going to change your humanity or anything like that. I don't know enough about it. Could it? I suppose. I haven't looked into it enough. I'm not going to get it on the grounds that I don't trust it, and I don't want to screw with my DNA, and I don't, I think it's dangerous. I don't want to mess with my DNA. You tell me that this thing does something with the messenger RNA, and it's, you know, this new kind of thing. It's like, nah, no thanks. You know, so, but I'm not going to come out and say, if somebody gets, some people are going to have to get it in the military and stuff like that. And this is not, I'm going to say this definitively. This is not the mark of the beast. Exactly. And, you know, how I know? Because the man of sin is not on the stage yet. And you're not required to worship the beast in order to get it. You're not required to deny Jesus, uh, to get, even know who the beast is. We don't know who the beast is. Exactly. Okay? So, so until the beast is on the scene, the mark, his mark isn't isn't going to show up yet. You can't have the mark of the beast without the beast. And don't tell me it's Obama. Don't tell me it's the Pope. It's not. In my opinion, and I make this case in the book, the beast, the so-called Antichrist, is the son of the dragon. Yes, he's the hybrid son of the dragon. He is Apollo. And he's not just some world leader. He's not just some charismatic, uh, uh, political figurehead. He's coming. You know how Christ is coming on the clouds of heaven? Yeah. Guess what? Apollo's coming on the clouds of heaven too. He's an imitation of Christ. He's going to mimic Christ. He's an impostor. And he's gonna, he's going to make the world believe that he is Christ. And when he shows up, it's not, no one's going to wonder, you know, could this be the Antichrist? I think all true believers are going to instantly recognize that this is the man of sin. And Paul, in fact, Paul says that to the Thessalonians, who were worried that they had missed the coming of the Lord, and Paul said, 'Did I tell you? Didn't I tell you that the Lord is not going to return until the man of sin, the son of destruction, is revealed?' Uh, uh, I mean, yeah. And this is, you know, Apollo was born on the island of Delos, which means to be revealed. Right? So, so it's Apollo. I believe his name is actually going to be Apollo. And he, and I, and he's coming with a cloud, and he's come, and an impostor. He's a Christ. That's what Antichrist means. Not against Christ. He's claiming to be Christ. You know, just like Christ says, he did everything that he saw his father doing. He came in the name of the Father. Paul's going to come in the name of his father, the dragon. And it's again, it's the inversion of the gospel. Okay. So, is this the mark of the beast? Not even close. Is it dangerous? Is it potentially could screw you up some genetic stuff? I think.

So yeah, uh, would I take it? No. Yes. So, um, I think we need to be very wary of anything that screws with your DNA. Now, having said that, there are gene therapies that are very safe and very effective. They take, they take this sequence from your wife or someone of a donor that's a human sequence. This is, this is Adam's DNA, okay? Adam's DNA, unaltered, taking the correct one and replacing your screwed up, corrupted, uh, uh, mutant gene that's mutated and replacing it with the right code. Right? I'm totally fine with that. That's Adam to Adam. And, um, and so I don't have any problem with that. Yeah, exactly. And, and this also is something that, you know, we as Christians should be having conversations about. And, and by the way, there is nothing that you said that I disagree with. I'm, I'm right, I'm board with all that.

It's funny, uh, I did a video, uh, that was literally called, um, "COVID-19 Vaccine is Not the Mark of the Beast." YouTube deleted it for it. YouTube deleted it. They, they actually, and they told me that they don't, they don't allow anything on their platform that conflicts with what the World Health Organization says. I was like, oh my gosh, you clearly did not watch saying the World Health Organization is saying that the COVID vaccine is the mark of the beast. Exactly. Yeah, it's just the stupid algorithm that they run, just picks up certain keywords and then makes a determination. Yeah, they matched "mark of the beast" and "COVID," and they thought, yeah, they thought I was saying something I wasn't. But I, I entirely agree. Look, you can't just claim nilly-willy that what, that something is the mark of the beast. You're not allowed to do that according to scripture. You, you things have to line up before you can have a mark of the beast. You got to have the beast on the scene. Yeah. And he's not, is he alive? I don't know. I don't know if he's alive, but I'm telling you, he's not on the scene yet. And if he is, nobody knows who he is yet. Yep. It has not become abundantly apparent. And why is it going to become abundantly apparent? Because he's going to claim to be Christ. He's going to be a counterfeit Christ. And he's going to, and he's going to openly blaspheme, uh, God and blaspheme the real Christ. He's going to say that Jesus was the impostor. And, and, and so, um, and claim to be the true Christ and will be embraced as such. There's nobody alive right now that even comes close to fitting that bill. That's right.

And again, I don't believe he's going to be fully human. I believe he's going to be the hybrid offspring of the dragon. The dragon is going to copulate with a human woman, just like the Watchers with the human woman, just like the Watchers did, and procreate a child that is human enough to be a claimant to the throne of Adam, to usurp the dominion of the human race on Earth, which is, of course, the, the through narrative of my book. And, and, and it kind of brings us all the way back to the question of posthumanism, the posthuman paradigm, and all of that. And then, and then, um, that Jacob and Esau scenario that's coming. There was, there was one, um, one last question about the alien thing that I wanted to ask because I know people are wondering this. If they're not demons, but they are demonic, but they're not demons, um, how do, is there hope for people who are, uh, abductees to make this thing stop? Is there a way to make it? Because usually they're told, you know, pray in the name of Jesus, tell them to go away, and they will. And I, I think that works for some people because there are demonic attacks that do happen. So I, I think there, there's that. But, but what about people that are actual abductees from literal flesh and blood, uh, extraterrestrial beings? Is there, is there hope? What do, what do, what do they do?

That's a difficult question. Um, let me, let me say first that a lot of people that, most abductees only can remember the beginning and the end of an abduction episode. In other words, they can only remember the onset of the episode when they're being taken from their bed or wherever they're being taken from, and the moment, the point at which they are returned. So what does that look like for most abductees? Most abductees remember being lifted off their bed and then being put back down onto their bed. And so they take, and Bud Hopkins was the first to point this out. And so they take those two experiences, the beginning and the end of an abduction episode, which might have been two and a half hours long, and they only have the beginning and the end that they can consciously recall. And then they glue them together. And so what they recall is going up and then coming down. And so, unfortunately, I, I, I, I think a lot of Christians who happen to be abductees believe that they've been successful in halting an abduction when in fact they haven't. They're just remembering the beginning and the end. So they're going up and then they're coming back down to their bed without remembering the intern. Um, um.

Now, I'm not going to tell you that, uh, rebuking, you know, in the name of, or invoking the name of Jesus, invoking the name of Jesus is good, is, is that you shouldn't do that or that you should. I, I don't, I have commentary on that on my book, and I, and I really lay it out, um, what I think about that. But, you know, I mean, listen, I think all believers, if they get into a scenario that is a, a difficult, dangerous, life-threatening, scary scenario, our first reaction is going to be to pray. Yeah. And I think that's the appropriate reaction for any, any scenario you're in. Abduction, you know, you get in a car accident. My first reaction, I think your first reaction, most believers are going to pray. Yeah. And, and rightly so. Um, but the name of Jesus is not a magic wand. And, and I, I refer to this as Harry Potter Christianity because a lot of Christians are under the impression that the name of Jesus is this wand. It's this magic wand. You know, in Harry Potter, like, you know, some evil thing is happening and you, and you wave your wand and say, "Expel," and, you know, shoot some kind of, uh, uh, you know, magical substance out of the wand and, and, and, and halts, halts your adversary from, from attacking you or something. That's not the name of Jesus. Is, is not wielded like a magic wand. And, and to some extent, uh, people who really push this, I think, are, are, are losing the essence of what the gospel is. It's not, you know, it's not that the name of Jesus, invoking the name of Jesus, is not in, in and of itself, some kind of a weapon. Um, our faith in Christ is, is just that. It's our faith in the gospel. It's our faith in that the gospel is true. We put our faith in the, in the death, the burial, and the resurrection of Jesus. That's where we put our hope. That, that, that, that he died to redeem us. And that through his death and resurrection, he reconciles us to the Father and restores us to everything that was lost in Adam. That's the gospel. And so that's what my faith is in. My faith is not necessarily in, uh, uh, the just the name of Jesus that I can, you know, brandish the name of Jesus to, to expel every evil thing or every unpleasant thing. Um, you know, like if somebody would were to get cancer, I don't just go over their house and say, you know, "In the name of Jesus, you don't have cancer." We all know that that doesn't work. Sometimes that happens. Sometimes, sometimes God has determined to heal that person, and he's going to use you to go over there and pray for that person. And that absolutely happens. Of course, that happens. I've seen it myself. That does happen. But it'll be up to God, not up to us, because we're not created by God. Exactly. It's like Jesus only did the things he saw his father doing. He only healed the people that the father told him to heal, right? And he did that for the glory of the father and to, and to certify and authenticate the gospel. Um, so this idea that we can walk around and just wave, wave the, brandish the name of Jesus, you know, like a wand, like a magical wand, is, I think that's bad theology. Yeah. It's, it's, it's errant theology.

And so I said that to say that assuming that if you're abducted, let's not even talk about alien abduction. Let's just make it a, let's talk about a trafficking abduction. Somebody's trying to abducting you for purposes of human trafficking. There's no guarantee that you're going to say, "In the name of Jesus, I command you to stop," and they're going to stop. There's no guarantee. Right? I mean, if that were the case, none of the Yazidi Christians in Iraq or Afghanistan would have been abducted by ISIS and sold as slaves in the market. That's right. None of the Christians, none of the early Christians who were, uh, abducted by Roman soldiers and brought over to the Coliseum to, to be burned at the stake or eaten by lions, would have been burned at the stake. Or, you know, that's where we get the term "Roman candle" from, by the way. Yeah, they were covered in tar and burned in the palace as candles, living candles. None of that would have happened to the Christians if they had a magic wand to just expel their, uh, uh, their captives or, or, or the people who are being hostile towards them. Um, so, and, and so in the same way that that we don't brandish around the name of Jesus like a magic wand in those scenarios, I don't think that that, uh, that that's a failsafe against abduction. And so I think what's happening is a lot of people who are believers, sincere believers, and are rebuking, uh, their abductors, their, their alien abductors in the name of Jesus, are remembering the beginning and the end of the episode. Not in all cases. I'm certainly open to the notion that that, that they are, in fact, driving away these entities. Sure. I'm not closing the door for that. But I do know from personal experience, by the way, having interviewed certain individuals, that that they are being abducted, and they, and they, they thought that they rebuked the aliens in the name of Jesus, and that the aliens put them back down on the bed, but in fact, they didn't. Because then they start to recall what actually happened. It was their usual procedure. They went up through the window, up into the craft, laying on, laying out on the, on the, uh, on the table, and the, and the, and the typical procedures, abduction procedures were being, um, were being carried out, and then they were brought back and returned to their bed. And so at first, they remembered going up, rebuking, and then being put back down. Because again, most abductees only remember the beginning and the end of the abduction episode. So they're gluing, like, but, like Bud Hopkins talks about, they're gluing the beginning and the end together and assuming that because they rebuked at some point of being taken off their bed, they rebuked the entities, they invoked the name of Jesus, Jesus, so they were brought back down to their pillow, you know, returned to their bed, that it worked.

I actually think this is a little bit dangerous for Christians to to promote this idea that that there's this failsafe. You can rebuke the, uh, aliens in the name of Jesus. And why? Because people who are Christian abductees who are doing this and are convincing themselves that it's working, but in reality, they know that it didn't, because they can recall some of the, some of the abduction memories. They're suppressing those memories because now they're under the impression that if they're rebuking these demons, these, these angel, these, I'm sorry, these aliens who they believe are demons, in the name of Jesus, and it's not being effective, then their faith, then their faith is somehow deficient. Exactly. Maybe they're not really believers. Yes. And that's the only response that can be given in that situation. And I have heard that a lot of times, and it does give me concern because it reminds me of the super charismatics that say, if you pray for healing in the name of Jesus and it doesn't happen, there's something wrong with you, the victim, with the person with the disease. You don't speak in tongues, you're not really, yeah, exactly. That's what it reminds me of. And that kind of stuff can hinder somebody's faith because that, that happened to me. You know, I've got a degenerative bone disease. And I remember when I came out of New Age, naturally, you know, when I came back to Christ, I naturally went into the charismatic stuff for a while. That was just like a natural progression from New Age. And while, yeah, and while I was, while I was in it, um, I had people saying, yeah, you can be healed of this. Just, you know, you got to have faith and pray in Jesus name and take command over it, you know. Was a lot of that stuff. And I did, and it didn't work. So I thought for a while that there was something wrong with me. It caused depression. Yeah. It caused depression. It was a severe hindrance on my faith at the time. When in reality, what's really going on is I don't get to control the gift of healing. The Holy Spirit controls it. Wants to heal me, he will. And if he doesn't, you don't get to wield the name of Jesus like a magic wand. That's not the way it works. If he doesn't heal me, his grace is sufficient for me. And that's fine. I will get healed in the next life. You know, I'll get a new body. That's fine. You're going to get one in the resurrection. It's the hope of every believer. Exactly. We're all going to get healed and fixed and, and, and restored. Exactly. All of us. That's the, that's the hope of the gospel. That's your faith. And that's what our faith is placed in. So, so again, it's dangerous to tell people that all you got to do is rebuke these things in the name of Jesus, they're just demons, they're going to go away. If you, I'm, I'm sorry, I would not do that. I do not think that, uh, that that is accurate in all cases. It couldn't be accurate in some cases. Sure. Again, I'm not closing the door to the idea. I'm just saying that I know personally, I know people who are strong believers who are abductees who, who thought at first that they were effectively rebuking the, the these, quote unquote, demons in the name of Jesus, and they were being, the demons would put them back down and run away. But then later on, we're beginning to realize that in fact, what that was not what was happening. They were beginning to recall that in fact, they were taken up. Oh, yeah. Because they were suppressing the memory. Because now they have to suppress the memory of the abduction. Because if, if they allow themselves to remember that they, that they, that the invocative solution of of invoking the name of Jesus and the demons flee, if that didn't work, then does that say about their faith in Christ? I'm sorry, it has zero bearing on your faith in Christ. Zero.

That's my one like main concern about that whole thing. Because if, if you use the name of Jesus and if it doesn't work, and you're in that paradigm, the only option is to tell the victim there's something wrong with them. And it might be, you know, okay, some, some people might be, they might be a total alcoholic and they're inviting some evil forces in by by indulging in that too much, or being a drug addict, or, you know, a serial fornicator or something. You know, I mean, you, there can be situations where, you know, the, quote unquote, victim has has some things that they have to clean up. But I don't, I don't think that it's wise to assume that that has to be the case every time. Because bad things happen to good people sometimes. You know, bad, bad evil things can happen to very good, strong Christians, and it, it might not have anything to do with it being the victim's fault. Sometimes people are victimized. If it was the victim's fault, they wouldn't be a victim. You know, they wouldn't be, you wouldn't be able to call them that. So that, that is, that's always been my main issue with it. Is, is if it, if the person claims it doesn't work, like if they say, well, you know, they, they came after me, I used the name of Jesus, and it didn't stop the attack. If they say that, the only logical response in that paradigm is to say, there's something wrong with you. There's some sin. There's some. But the same charismatic line. It's exact. Like you said, with the healing stuff. It's exactly the same. All there's something wrong with you. You would never say that to somebody whose house got broken into, or whose, whose brother got murdered, or was actually abducted by like human traffickers. And, and, you know what? A lot of people out there, because of this, I would call it a doctrine at this point, that, you know, rebuke the, the alien, quote unquote, demons in the name of Jesus, and they'll flee. There's a lot of Christians who are doing this, and who are on the exterior, um, pretending like it's working, but on the interior are living in denial. And that denial is wrecking their faith. And some of you are listening to me right now, your faith has been wrecked because you, you know that this is still happening, and now you're questioning whether or not you're really a believer. Don't question whether you're not a believer based on rebuking something. Do you believe in the gospel of Christ? If you do, cling to it. If you believe in the gospel of Christ, then you are a believer, regardless of you being abducted or whatever. And, and so that's, that's what I would encourage people. Don't, don't, uh, don't judge your standing in the kingdom, your, your faith in Christ, based on invocations. That's actually, you want to talk about New Age? Invocations are are not something that I, I think Christians should be all caught up in, um, in, in invoking things, um, and using it in a way that is that is very much akin to to magic. Yeah. And again, and, and I'm referring to the extremes. Like, like I've seen, I've been in, and I've seen extreme charismatic nonsense where there's invocations of all kinds, weird stuff, pronouncements, proclamations that are supposed to magically, uh, eradicate problems that are going on in your life. And, and, and, and that's borderline New Age type stuff. If you want to talk about New Age. The main point is, don't, don't question your standing with God based on these things. Just like if something bad happens to you, if your car breaks down, or if you have a family member that dies, or any number of horrible things that can happen, uh, in the world, don't use those things as evidence that there's something wrong with you and God. If, if God has an issue with you, if there is some sin, uh, you can, he'll tell you, you, you'll feel convicted, you, you'll know, and you can ask him. You can go to him with it and say, Lord, if there's any sin in my life, if there's anything that I need to, uh, fix, please show me what that is and show me how to do it. And he, he will. And I, I fully believe in that.

Well, the good news is, uh, we are out of time for this interview. But Tim has agreed to do an actual, a part four, because we have two more topics that we really have to get to. We got to talk about GRIN Technologies in the end times, and we got to talk about Jacob and Esau. And to try to cram that into, you know, another 10 or 15 minutes, it's just not going to work. It's impossible. It is. These are, these are big topics. So we're actually going to do a part four. So make sure to, uh, join us next time. Before we go, Tim, do you have any, uh, final thoughts for this, uh, part three?

I know. I would just encourage people to, to take the abduction phenomenon seriously. Don't write it off. Don't just wave your hand and say, oh, that's demons. Um, you know, I, I detail it pretty well in my book. So my book is a good starting point. Um, and you'll find the other sources that I would recommend in the book in the footnotes. Um, if you really want to take a serious scientific look at the phenomenon, and then make your determination. And I encourage people to do it because it's happening. It's real. Whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not, it is absolutely happening.

Amen. Thank you so much for being on the show. And thank you for again agreeing to do another part so we can get into the last parts of your book and of your book and really give it the time, uh, that it deserves.

Always a pleasure, uh, talking with you.

Tim, the pleasure is mine. All right, everybody else, thank you so much for viewing. And until next time, we will come back for one final part with Timothy Alberino. Till next time, love you all. Take care and God bless. All right, we welcome back to the show for the final part, the real final, final part, uh, Timothy Alberino. Thank you for coming back on the show. And thank you for agreeing to do this last part. I know that we were originally going to try to, uh, squeeze in everything of the, the last part of your book into part three, but that clearly wasn't going to work. Uh, we, we talked a lot about a lot of things, but we got about three hours into it. We have two more really big topics to talk about, plus anywhere else you want to take it and viewer questions. There was just no way we were going to be able to cram that into the last 10 or 15 minutes of the show last time. So where we left off, uh, we were just starting to talk about the posthuman paradigm, specifically GRIN Technologies. So what are GRIN Technologies and how are, how are these going to be utilized in the end of the age?

GRIN is an acronym that stands for Genetics, Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Nanotechnology. And those are kind of the four primary streams in what's known as emerging technologies. And there are others. Um, but what emerging technologies are, uh, as it relates to human biology, is, uh, they represent technologies that are going to fundamentally transform our biology. And ultimately, when these technologies converge, and that's why this is called the age we're in right now, uh, technologists refer to it as the hybrid age, interestingly enough. And what they mean by that is that these emerging technologies are converging, they're hybridizing, and the convergence of these technologies is going to lead to a posthuman paradigm, ultimately. So how far away are we from that posthuman paradigm? What does that world look like? And are we entering into it now? Because I mean, I remember even thinking back in my old life, I'm, I'm not that old, I'm 35, but I remember a time before the internet. I mean, most of my childhood was pre-internet, and it's a totally different world we live in today. And it seems to be only changing faster and faster. Are we entering into that time now? And what, how much different is that world going to look like?

We are in the beginning of, we are in the be, the very beginning of the road that leads to post-humanism. We are at the very beginning. And the transition between human and posthuman is called transhuman. That's why it's called, that's what the word trans is indicative of. It's a, it's a trans, it's a transition, it's transitory. So transhumanism is not the, the end game. Rather, posthumanism is the end game. And, and, and as I said, we're at the very beginning of this long road. Uh, these technologies are developing very quickly, but it's still going to take time because you have to, it's not, not just the technology itself that has to come together in order for this to give rise to this posthuman paradigm. It's also, it's also the philosophies and the doctrines that are associated with that, that are associated with post-humanism. Uh, and there are, there are things that have to transpire, I think, before people are willing to accept, willing to forfeit their humanity. Because that's what posthumanism is. It's a forfeiture of the human condition, of humanity. Uh, I personally think that we're probably, we're probably at least a couple hundred years away, um, I, maybe even 300 to 500 years away from, uh, from a time in which, and this is a time in which I, I, I portray in my book, uh, a time in which there are, there are almost no human beings left on the planet. That's what I mean by a post-human paradigm. It, it's a, it's a, it's a dystopia nightmare in which, in which the planet is nearly bereft of the human species. And again, I would, I would say we're a few hundred years, let's average, uh, a few hundred years from, from that, from that contingency.

And, and some of the leading transhumanists today, a lot, a lot of them, the ones that I've talked to at least, they also sort of kind of tout themselves as philosophers as well. And, uh, I've, I've kind of tried talking to some of them. I actually debated Zoltan Istvan. It was, it was a really good debate. We fundamentally disagree on everything, but we get along. We get along well. Um, but, but one thing that I, I, I couldn't break through is the philosophy of that, you know, we, and I, I'm sure each transhumanist kind of has their own spin on this, but basically, we have to take control of evolution and guide it towards our own end. Yet, according to them, evolution is how, you know, undirected, just unguided, chaotic evolution is how we, yeah, that's how we got here. And I could never really get a solid answer on how, okay, if it, if it got us this far, and I, I don't believe in evolution, you know, I'm just playing devil's advocate for them. But if, if evolution got us this far, why would we think that it couldn't take us where you already want to go anyway? Why would we want to guide and direct that? And a lot of times they'll say, well, you know, we want, we got to defeat death. Death is a disease. And they usually pivot to that. So, what, what's kind of, what's your opinion on, uh, sort of the philosophy of transhumanism?

Well, yeah, this is what Barbara Marx Hubbard, the late Barbara Marx Hubbard, she died, I believe, she died this year, if not last year. Uh, she, she coined the phrase "evolution by choice, not by chance." And this is part of the philosophy, the, the creed of directed evolution. And that's, that's what we're talking about. Directed evolution. Evolution that is directed by the human species. We're directing the course of our evolutionary upgrade. Uh, this, of course, began with, uh, Darwin laid the groundwork for this. We talked about this last time. And then, and then, but the problem with evolution, uh, by natural selection, is that it's not going anywhere. It's random. It doesn't have a purpose. And so, uh, enter, enter Friedrich Nietzsche, who, who supplied evolution with a purpose. Nietzsche said that the purpose of evolution, it wasn't random, uh, it wasn't happenstance. That evolution had a purpose, and that purpose was to bring forth the Overman, uh, the Übermensch, on the Earth. And the Overman would be as different from man as man is from an ape. Thus Spoke Zarathustra. That was a quote from, from Nietzsche's, uh, Nietzsche's book, Thus Spoke Zarathustra. And, uh, so the Overman is, is, is the ultimate, the pinnacle of human evolution. And you're right, um, before Nietzsche, there was no purpose for evolution. Evolution was a process that was just taking place on Earth that was random selection. Um, it was the only purpose of evolution, if, if it had a purpose at all, was just survival, was to propagate and, and to, uh, to proliferate one's genes. And, which, interestingly enough, you know, people like Richard Dawkins and, and some of these famous evolutionists, they want to claim that evolution has no purpose, and then they assign it a purpose to proliferate genes, you know, to propagate the, the, um, the selfish gene, what Dawkins, how Dawkins calls it. And so that's assigning evolution with a purpose. But you can't do that if you, if you don't believe that evolution has a purpose, you can't then go and assign it with a purpose. Something that doesn't have a purpose, uh, doesn't, doesn't exist. Everything has a purpose. Life has a purpose. Life was given a purpose. Indeed. Purpose is the, is the, is the impetus of life. Without purpose, there would be no reason to propagate. Would there be no reason to reproduce? So obviously there's an underlying purpose here. And Nietzsche realized that. And he called, he was a proponent, as I said last time, of, of the theory of evolution. Um, but he did not like Darwin's mechanism for evolution, which was natural selection. So he invented his own mechanism for evolution. He called it the will to power. And so the purpose of evolution was, was, uh, to, was to produce superior human beings on planet Earth, the Übermensch, the Overman. And so, uh, later on, after Nietzsche, uh, the, the proteges of, uh, of Helena Blavatsky, the famous, uh, Helena Blavatsky, the theosophist, the founder of, of the Theosophical Society, such as Alice Bailey, began to take this idea of Nietzschean evolution, not Darwinian evolution, Nietzschean evolution, and they began to build a, a doctrine around it, a almost like a new religious creed, evolution by choice, not by chance. And of course, that was Barbara Marx Hubbard, who coined that. And Hubbard was to some degree, a, a student of Alice Bailey and others besides, uh, and so, um, and so now you have a scenario in which we have two streams. And I, I read about this in the book. You have two streams running parallel right now as it pertains to post-humanism. You have one which is a, a technological stream. It's a scientific pursuit. And this, again, it encompasses all of the emerging technologies, all of the, all of the biotechnologies, including the GRIN technologies. And their, their stated goal, ostensibly their goal, is to improve the human condition, to reduce suffering, to extend life, just the overall betterment of the human condition. So you have the scientific, the technological stream. And then over here, on the, on, on this side, you have running parallel, you have the metaphysical, the, the philosophical, the religious stream. Those three things really combined. And over here, you have not so much focusing on the technologies, but focusing on the idea of, um, mankind reaching his highest potential, spiritually speaking, metaphysically speaking, uh, that man is to evolve into something, um, like a god, a transcendent purpose for mankind, that we're supposed to become like gods ourselves. Uh, again, evolution by choice, not by chance. So at some point in time, these two streams are going to converge. So you have over here, you have the convergence of the GRIN technologies and, and all, and, and the convergence of all of these technologies in the hybrid age. But then after, at the same time, you're also going to have the convergence of the technology with the theology, so to speak. And this is, is going to, this is going to manifest in a new religion, which we talked about last time, which I coin "Apotheosism." And "apotheo" derived from the word apotheosis, which means to be, to become godlike, to deify. Um, and, and "theism," and, and theism, um, is the belief in the gods. So you have, you have this combination of these two concepts, that, that the gods are real. So we believe in the gods, they do indeed exist. So there's no atheists in the posthuman future. The gods do indeed exist, and we shall become like them. So you can see the synthesis that's happening here between the, the evolution, not necessarily Darwinian evolution, it's more Nietzschean evolution, and the religious component, um, which involves, besides, uh, the, theosophists, besides, uh, the proteges of, of Blavatsky, you also have the Thelemites, the proteges of Crowley, mixed in here. And by the way, you also have the emerging church over here. You also have the emerging church. And you also have the Catholic Church, components of the Catholic Church are over here, in this, in this. So it's not just New Age. The emerging church. The emerging church movement is sort of the modern, the new modern chic, um, uh, the, uh, the trendy new church movement that is adapting to the social norms, that is that is adapting to the Zeitgeist of the 21st century and trying to be, you know, hip and, and, uh, and appeal to Millennials. I think everybody kind of knows what those churches look like. They're very light on the gospel. They, they stray away from, they stay away from, uh, any of the more disturbing, uh, teachings, doctrines in the scripture, such as, as the doctrines of hell and things like of this nature, judgment, and, and the, the things that are are deemed as as unpalatable for this new snowflake generation. And, and their churches are very much oriented to appealing to Millennials and appealing to the, the sentiments of the, the snowflake generation. I think everybody understands what I'm talking about here. So, yeah, God is nothing but love, and there's no other aspects to God. God is one-dimensional. You know, that's how these Christian, uh, cults start. They, they focus on one aspect of God as if he's not a person, and, you know, multi-dimensional. And I don't mean like in a science way, I mean like, like there's, he has dimensions to his personality, just like we do. You know, we can be angry, or sad, or happy, or, you know, all, all that stuff. But also, he's, he's loving. He's also judgmental, you know, in a good way, in a holy, righteous way. So you have some cults that just focus only on the, the love and ignore all the rest. You have other cults that only focus on the judgment, like Westboro Baptist, and ignore all the rest. And then because they have this whole God that they now have to, you know, compensate for because they cut everything else out of him, they take that one part and stretch it across all the rest of these facets. So now you have a God that judges everybody, no matter what, or you have a God that loves everybody, no matter what, and there's no other way to look at it. That's like the definition of these Christian cults. That's true. Yeah, that's true.

And, and, you know, what's interesting is I feel like the emerging church, so it's also called the emergent church, um, the, the emerging church is is conditioning Christians for the emerging technologies. Yeah. And the, the notion that we can and should enhance ourselves to become like gods, to better know God, right? That's what they're going to say. That, if we, if we enhance ourselves, and then we're going to be able to communicate with God, commune with God, commune with the spirit on a higher level. In fact, this is already, uh, this is already being, uh, um, pushed by the Christian transhumanists, right? The Christian transhumanists are saying basically that, um, that to become more like Christ, becoming transhuman is becoming more like Christ. So they're missing the point because becoming posthuman, becoming transhuman, and then ultimately posthuman is becoming not like Christ at all, because you're evolving out of Adam. That's right. And, and Jesus was a kinsman redeemer, remember? Jesus is a son of man. He's a son of God, but he's also a son of man. He's human. And, and he's a kinsman redeemer only to the offspring of, of Adam. That's the provisor of the gospel. The gospel only applies to the offspring of Adam. It's the only provisor in the gospel. Um, the only stipulation, you must be human. And so there is no such thing as a Christian transhuman. The doc, if you want to sum, if you want to summarize the, the doctrine of apotheosism, it can be summarized in one word: Luciferianism. Yeah. That's the doctrine of apotheosism. It is the doctrine of Lucifer. It is the Bible. It is the inversion of the gospel. Um, and that's what the emerging churches are, are, uh, that's what they're teaching. And they're doing it in a very, they're doing it in a very subtle way. The teachings of a lot of these new modern churches are much more, uh, reminiscent of the teachings of Alice Bailey, and much more reminiscent of the teachings of, of, uh, of Barbara Marx Hubbard, of, um, Teilhard de Chardin, and a lot of these, uh, famous, uh, New Age teachers, thinkers. Even Neil Donald Walsch. I mean, you know, a guy like Neil Donald Walsch would, would fit in very well in the emerging church. He would be a celebrated figure if he ever decided to to become a quote unquote Christian and join that church. And so, um, the point is, it's not just the emerging church or the emergent church. It's also the elements of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is divided right now because this new Pope, well, he's not new anymore, but, uh, Francis is, is a Jesuit. And the doctrine of the Jesuits is, um, is, uh, conscious evolution. I mean, their most influential teacher is, uh, Teilhard de Chardin, whose teachings were outlawed by the Catholic Church for a long time. Um, but, uh, but really always have been very important to the Jesuit order. And so now we have the first Jesuit Pope. And what is he doing? He's doing exactly what we would expect a Jesuit to do. The, the Jesuits, uh, invented liberation theology and are have always been sympathetic to communists, or at least not always. I shouldn't say always. I should say since the '60s, right? You know, have been sympathetic to communists. And so, and, and so you take this, this, this sympathetic attitude towards towards communism, and you, you mix that with the teachings of, uh, Chardin, you know, the noosphere, and, and, uh, conscious evolution. And you, and you can see that this is, these are the doctrines of the current Pope, of, of Pope Francis. Um, so it's no surprise. Everything that he's doing. And, and of course, this, this notion that human beings are bad for the Earth. And that, because of, um, Pope Francis is is very much a proponent of of the, uh, climate change, yeah, garbage, yeah, the whole movement stuff. Yeah. And then, and, yeah, exactly. And so you have this, this idea that that basically what's, what's being, the, the notion is that the human race is bad to the Earth. We're like a cancer to the Earth. And I think people missed the point here. Uh, because the, the answer is not to eradicate us. That's not, that's not really where we're headed. It's not the eradication of the, of, of human beings. In other words, it's not just to destroy us, to kill us, or to stop us from propagating. That's not the point. The point is to force us to evolve. That's the point. The point is to show, to demonstrate that the current, uh, evolutionary condition of the human race is inadequate. That, that we are dangerous in our current condition. We need to evolve. We have to evolve for the sake of the Earth. Um, and so it's not pushing us towards destruction in the sense that they want to just wipe away, wipe out, you know, millions and millions of human beings. They want us to go extinct. MH. Which is a different concept. Because, um, they want the, the, the current Homo sapiens to go extinct, and for, they want to give birth to the posthuman Homo Deus, as, as it's being described in some circles. And of course, Homo Deus means God-man. So the idea is to push us, to force us, to funnel us into a directed evolutionary upgrade. And those of us who refuse to evolve will be considered the refuse, the remnant of, of evolution. We, we will be the, the, um, vestigial refuge of direct evolution. And this, this, this is the future. There's no question about it. This is the future. And the future is not, you know, robots walking around, you know, with like Terminator robots killing humans or anything like that. The, the game is not about eliminating the human race. The game is usurping dominion of the Earth from the human race. And again, those are two different concepts. And that's where this is all headed.

Remember what we talked about a couple interviews back, that you cannot steal the birthright away from the offspring of Adam. That the birthright is inherent in our genome. We inherit the birthright. And what is the birthright? The birthright of the human species at large, not just Christians. The birthright of the human species at large is dominion of planet Earth. That's the birthright of the human species. And, and that dominion, that birthright cannot be stolen from us. We can abdicate authority. We can do that. But in order to, in order to usurp the birthright, that's a different thing altogether. So I write, I write here in my book. This is in the last chapter entitled "Jacob and Esau," which we'll talk about Jacob and Esau in a minute. Yeah. As previously established, dominion of the Earth does not belong to one man or even to one family line, but to the whole of mankind. The birthright is inherent in our genome. We are the offspring. We are all the offspring of Adam, replicated with the seal of his likeness and indeed with the authority it guarantees. The wholesale purchase of the human birthright would require universal or majority consent from the human populace at large. Abdicating our authority to the dragon is one thing. Selling him our birth, selling him our birthright is quite another. The first can be achieved through a voluntary transaction, but the second necessitates a genetic transformation. And I hope that's the way I wrote that is is clear. What I'm trying to say here is that you can advocate authority. And we talked about this, I think last time. You can advocate authority to the dragon, to the insurgency, through idolatry. So if you decide that you are going to pay obedience to the dragon, to Satan, rather than to God, then you are giving the dragon, uh, legal authority to have influence in your realm. You're willingly inviting him to have influence in your realm. And that's what the, that's what the Romans did by by worshiping Jupiter, who is the patron deity of the Roman Empire. And in the same way, Zeus was the patron deity of the, of the, of the Greeks, of, of the Greek civilization. Zeus is, Jupiter. Both Zeus and Jupiter are an aspect of Satan. And, and so that's abdication of our authority, allowing the enemies of God to have influence in our realm, which is really treason against, against the Kingdom of Heaven. That's what that amounts to. Um, but in order for the dragon to usurp human authority, in order for any non-human race to usurp our dominion, to usurp our birthright, that requires a genetic transformation. Because the birthright is in our genome. We inherit it as the offspring of Adam. And it cannot be stolen. It, it, it can only be usurped. Authority can be abdicated, but our birthright must be usurped. And, and, and the way to usurp the human birthright is, is to, it's really a two-part. It's really a two-step process. You have the human species relinquishing the genetic markers that make us human, and you have something else becoming more human. So we're becoming less human, they're becoming more human. And by doing that, you have a transference. We are, we are, so to speak, evolving ourselves out of Adam, while something else is becoming human. And this is not unprecedented in the biblical narrative. It happened. We talked about this a couple, couple interviews back. This happened in the Genesis 6 affair. This is exactly what happened with the offspring of the Watchers, men. The genomes of mankind, the genome of mankind was becoming increasingly corrupted. And the offspring of the Watchers were, were human enough to usurp the authority of the human species, the dominion of mankind on Earth. And I believe that's exactly what happened before the flood. And that, that was intentional. It was intentional. It was the plan. This is the

plan that the Watchers had to usurp the Dominion of the human species on planet Earth, and that that is going to happen again to some extent, to some degree, at the end of the age. But instead of it, instead of the Watchers, the same ones who did it the first time, I believe this in this final, in this, in the final, uh, the final event, the final scenario in which this happens, something like this happens again, it's going to be the dragon and his princes who do it, who give birth to a hybrid, who progenerate a hybrid, uh, race, the golden race. And, and I believe that the dragon's own son, uh, who, who he procreates with a human woman, his son Apollo, is going to be the so-called Antichrist, and is going to be leading humanity into the final stages of our post-human transformation.

So, um, the game is again, is not about just destroying mankind, but usurping our Birthright. And that brings us to, that brings us to the ti, the the title of the final chapter in my book, which is entitled Jacob and Esau.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And, and just real quick, to put a, put an end on the, uh, the grin stuff, it's, it's interesting thinking about it like that, you know, between the choice versus, you know, force. Because a lot of times people think today, when they read all this end time stuff, that this is all done by force. But when you really, like, even just take the mark of the beast, when you really read what it says, it's, it's choice. You have to worship the beast in order to, in order to get this thing. It's a two-fold process. You don't, it's not just that you receive the mark. You can't be tricked into it. Nobody can knock you out and give you the mark, and then you're damned to hell for all eternity. Uh, you, you get the mark, and you have to worship the Beast or his image. And so there's a choice element there that it's not so much about force.

And, and it also explains too, when I, when I've talked with transhumanists, basically universally, all of them have said, we don't want to force this on anybody. We want to do it, we'd want to do it by choice. I've never heard any of them advocate force, you know, we're going to force humanity to do this. And of course, there's a lot of, that's just because that would be wildly unpopular, uh, and they're trying to get this thing going. But like, even when I debated Zoltan Istvan, he was really adamant that this, this would all be done by choice. And if you don't want it, you don't have to have it. But I, I told him, there's no way to really give somebody free will choice in this thing, because you're creating a world around other people, uh, in which they, they have no other choice.

So, for example, if I want to raise Christian, Christian children, because right, right now we live in a world where you can get like an STD, and you don't have to tell your sexual partner. It's like a legally protected thing. So it, it would, it would make sense if, uh, the whole, you know, gene editing thing was the same thing. You could, you could, you could, uh, at some point in the future, get some kind of upgrade, and then not tell your partner, and then you have, uh, transhuman kids or whatever. But so I, yeah, I brought that situation up to him and I said, so how, you know, if I want to raise children in a world, uh, where, where they actually have choice, let, let's say my, my daughter does not want to have transhuman kids, because she's a Christian, and she wants to have the family stay human. Well, if, if the transhumanist is protected legally, and because we were talking about a lot of legalities and stuff around it, but if, if the transhumanist is protected and doesn't have to tell my daughter that he's a transhumanist, how is that not taking her choice away by, uh, not, not allowing her to have just, just human children? And he didn't really have an answer to that. It was just kind of more, well, you know, just generally, we, you know, we, we, we want to cure cancer, and we want to cure death. And it always goes back to those humanitarian efforts, because who could argue against that? I mean, I will, but I don't care if people tell me I'm a bad person because of it. But that, that, that usually works on people, you know, once you talk, once you start talking about curing cancer and, uh, undoing death and stuff, then people kind of fold. But, but me, I was like, I, I never really got a solid answer. So it makes sense, uh, where, where you use choice in order to force, you know, you, you use choice in a way where you could always say, well, it was his choice. Just like the serpent did in the garden, he used choice. He didn't force, uh, Eve to eat the apple, but he used choice in order to, in a way, force her to do it, to, to deceive her into making the choice herself, so that he technically wouldn't be guilty of that sin, even though he was guilty of that sin. So I, I see the same thing kind of happening today. Is that, is that what you're talking about?

Well, like we said last time, there's no mark of the beast until there's the Beast, right? And everybody, Christians are going to recognize the Beast. I mean, true Christians will recognize the Beast. Uh, and so it's not going to be ambiguous, right? It's not going to be people wondering, is this vaccine the mark of the beast? It's going to be, it's going to be objectively clear that this is, this person is the Antichrist, and that they, what they are preaching, and what they are advocating, is, is entirely contrary to the gospel of Christ. And it will be extreme. It will not be ambiguous.

So, um, and when the time comes, the choice is going to be, take the mark of the beast, if you want to participate in Apollo's new and enlightened civilization, society. And that enlightened society is going to be inhabited by post-humans. You won't even be able to compete anyway. Uh, those who, who don't have the upgrades. Which, by the way, I believe those upgrades, those genetic upgrades, and there's, you know, there's other kinds of upgrades, biosynthetic upgrades, but the genetic upgrades, I think are going to come from the Beast himself. I believe it's going to be genetic components, genetic markers of the Beast. So the mark of the beast, in my opinion, are the genetic markers of the Beast, um, his own segments of his own genome. And, and there's a reason why we're going to need that, by the way. I, and there's so many little pieces and parts here, um, that I go over in my book, um, because as I said last time, eventually the human genome is going to become unviable, because we're headed for error catastrophe. And if people remember from the last interview, I said that that, uh, uh, population geneticists are quietly alarmed, um, about the, about the, the rapid rate of degeneration of the human genome. So we're headed for this, this, uh, catastrophic scenario called era catastrophe, in which there are so many mutations in our, in our genome, so many deleterious mutations, negative mutations, that we're, we can no longer reproduce viable offspring. And this is not science fiction, this is, this is human genetics. And so we're going to need an infusion. The only, I think, one of the only things that that could, that will be able to save us, is aside from completely abandoning the human biology and, you know, upgrading our consciousness to some kind of synthetic, um, computers, a nanotech body, or, or artificial intelligence, which I'm not sure that will ever happen, to be honest with you. I'm not sure that that is possible. Um, I don't know. But I do know that an extreme genetic transformation is, is on the horizon. And so if we get to this era catastrophe, where, where there's so many errors in our, in our genetic code, that, that the only way to fix it is to get an influx of new information to patch our, our mutations, to fix our mutations, and that influx has to come from something other than the broken down human species. There is a scenario in which Apollo and his consorts arrive and offer to supply their own genetic information, their own genes, freely. You know, so Apollo, Apollo, you know, I say it the way I put it in the book is that Apollo, so to speak, is going to show up and offer his own blood. That the blood of Apollo will be offered for the salvation of mankind. Again, an inversion of the gospel. Yeah. But rather than his blood, it's going to be his genetic material, his own elements, constituents of his own genome. The markers of the Beast, the genetic markers of the Beast, in my opinion, is the mark of the Beast. And, and people will willingly take it. Um, they'll line up to receive the genetic markers of the Beast, because there's going to be benefits. And again, um, I talk about the, the, the, the, the new golden age, and the new golden race, the, the new Atlantean world order, the resurrection of the old Atlantean world order, that Apollo is going to, um, is going to inaugurate a new golden age on the earth, in which the gods mingle themselves with men. Apollo and his consorts, the age of Horus, uh, the son of Osiris. Uh, so it's this, it's a new golden age, a new Zeon Earth, in which, in which the, this, the golden race descends. And, and a lot of what I'm saying is hearkening back to some pagan prophecies, in which the golden a race appears on the earth. And when I say the golden race, I'm talking about Apollo and his consorts, the offspring of the dragon princes and, and human women. And the golden race is, is, is, is, I believe these, these individuals are going to have golden hair, just like Apollo did. Uh, they're going to have blue eyes, fair skin. They're going to look very much like us. They're going to look like upgraded human beings. And that's how they're going to portray themselves. They are humanity 2.0. And, and they're going to offer us the, the, they're going to, they're going to, they're going to guide us into the next step in our evolution. And, uh, and I believe we're already going to be. In fact, I believe that the very fact that we're going to be far along the path of post-human, of transhumanism, by the time they show up, I believe that scenario is going to trigger the coming of Apollo. And that when Apollo arrives, it will, it will consummate receiving his, his genetic mark will consummate our transformation. That will be the, the consummation of our transformation from human to post-human.

And, and this is, this is what I refer to as selling our Birthright for a bowl of stew. Right? And this is what connects to the very last chapter of your book, on Jacob and Esau. And, and really, what the, the whole book points to, the, the culmination of how this all makes sense in this one biblical story that many of us have heard, but many of us have kind of just read over. And now that we have all this framework, and we, we, we have the foundation to build upon, tell us what you learned from the, the story of Jacob and Esau, and, and help us to see it for what, what it, what it really says.

Jacob and Esau is really the capstone of my book. It's, it's, it's the final piece of the puzzle. And it is a depiction of everything I lay out in the book from start to finish. Most people are generally familiar with the story of Jacob and Esau. Rather than me try and recite the story here by memory and, and, and point out some of the details, uh, that are relevant to the things I've been talking about, I'm just going to read this portion from my book.

Great. And this is in Chapter 13, entitled Jacob and Esau. So this is a little preview of, of, of what's in this chapter. The story of Jacob and Esau begins with Rebecca, the wife of Isaac, and daughter-in-law of Abraham, who is barren. Isaac prays for, for his wife, and she becomes pregnant with twins. But when the time comes to deliver the babies, some, something rather bizarre occurs. The first came forth red, all his body like a hairy mantle, so they called his name Esau. Afterward, his brother came forth, and his hand had taken hold of Esau's heel, so his name was called Jacob. I remember how perplexed I was as a young lad in Sunday school when my teacher glibly recited these verses as if what they were describing was perfectly normal. I suppose that being a twin myself, I was especially alarmed to discover that the first boy to emerge from Rebecca's womb looked like the red spawn of Bigfoot. Twins are supposed to resemble one another, are they not? Something was wrong with this picture. Even if Jacob and Esau were fraternal twins, as opposed to identical twins, the fact that one of them was red and hairy like a mantle should give us pause. As previously established, Esau means red. He would later be called Edom, and I talk a lot about Edom in this book, by the way. Jacob means heel holder or supplanter, because he had taken hold of Esau's heel. He would later be called Israel. The story of Jacob and Esau revolves around the concept of a birthright. In ancient times, a father, before passing away, would bequeath his patriarchal authority and material possessions to his firstborn son as an inheritance. A birthright, once given, the blessing of the birthright could not be rescinded. It could, however, be abdicated. As Esau was first, was born first, the birthright belonged to him.

And I'll read a couple more paragraphs here, just so we can frame this, the rest of this conversation. Yeah. When Isaac was on his deathbed and blind, the time had come to bestow the birthright to Esau. However, Rebecca favored Jacob and persuaded him to fool his father by impersonating his brother, so that the birthright would pass to him instead. Jacob, realizing that his father would likely touch him to confer the blessing, made the obvious observation, "Behold, my brother Esau is a hairy man, and I am a smooth man." The word hairy in this sentence comes from the Hebrew *se'ir*, which is commonly associated with a male goat. Esau wasn't hairy like a man. Esau was hairy like a goat. Rebecca's solution to the problem removes all doubt that Esau was inhumanly hairy. She covered Jacob's arms and neck in goat skins, and then I, and then I mentioned that there are, there are a few people alive today, about 50, suffering from a rare genetic disorder called hypertrichosis, otherwise known as werewolf syndrome, which causes their bodies to be covered in an inordinate amount of thick hair. It is possible that that Esau was born with hypertrichosis, but the double phenomenon of being a twin and having the genetic disorder are very rare indeed. There is, however, another possibility. Esau was not entirely human.

And then I go on to talk about, uh, this, this interesting coincident, this interesting coincidence. In fact, I say it cannot be coincidental that both Abraham's wife Sarah and Isaac's wife Rebecca were barren. Neither is it coincidental that in both cases, an ill-begotten elder sibling threatened the continuity of the family line. In the first case, it was Ishmael, and in the second, Esau. So I'm, I'm painting the picture here that, that something very strange is going on here with Esau in, in the biblical narrative. This is not, this is not a story just about two twins and two, two twins and, and, and one of them tries to, to, uh, to steal the birthright, that being Jacob. What I'm saying is, there's something much deeper that we're being told here. What we have in the story of Jacob and Esau is a portrait of what's going to occur, what's going to transpire at the End of the Age. Jacob represents Israel, I.E. Christ. And Esau represents Edom, the enemy of God, as we talked about, uh, in the previous interviews, the, the arch-enemy of Israel, I.E. the dragon. So here we have a depiction, uh, that the dragon is going to attempt to usurp the birthright of Adam that belongs to Christ. So here comes the Manchild again, right? The, the, the vision of the woman, and the Dragon from Revelation, that the dragon is poised to devour the male child as soon as he's born from the virgin womb of the woman. That's the Christ, the Christ child being born. The dragon is going to devour, uh, the seed of the woman. And we talked about how he failed to eradicate the human species in the pre-flood world. And what I didn't say, what I didn't, what I didn't get to in that, in our conversation, our previous conversation, was, was the how the dragon changed his strategy after the flood. Because he, before the flood, he had this opportunity to, to destroy, to eliminate the human species, which was part of his imaginations with, with the Watchers. And again, I, I, I, I talked about how the Watchers had their own, their own imagination, and the dragon has his, his own imagination. And they, they dovetail. They were not exactly the same. The Watchers wanted to usurp the dominion of the Earth. The dragon wanted to get rid of the human species so that the dragon slayer couldn't be born, the offspring, uh, of Adam, who was to emerge from the womb of the daughter of Eve, who would crush his head, according to the prophecy uttered from the mouth of the maker himself. Okay, this is the dragon's problem, right? Right. So after the flood, the dragon kind of had a different strategy. After the flood, he focused his, his efforts on one particular family line, and that was the line of Abraham. Because the dragon, I don't believe, knew which line, which, um, from which line the Christ would come specifically, because everybody was the offspring of Noah. After the flood, the human race was reset. We all are the sons and daughters of Noah, just like we all were the sons and daughters of Adam. Now we're all the sons and daughters of Noah, and, and by extension of Adam as well, but specifically of Noah. So the dragon waited, and he bided his time, and he would discover that the Christ is now going to come through the line of Abraham, specifically Abraham. Now knows it because God told it to him. And, and, and so does the dragon. So the dragon focuses, once he finds this out, focuses his efforts on foiling the dragon, what I call the dragon slayer prophecy. Focuses his efforts now on the line of Abraham, the household of Abraham. And so this, this, this general desire, this general plan to eradicate the human species is now focused on what would become Israel. Now he's going to destroy Israel. And by destroying Israel, or corrupting the line of Abraham, he can, he can, he can foil the prophecy of the dragon slayer and stop the coming of Christ. And this is what we see then, you know, in the post-flood context. This is what begins, this is what he, this is what he does. And so what he, what we have then, is this strange scenario in which, in which the wife of Abraham is, is barren, and then the wife of Isaac is barren. And in both cases, there's this miraculous birth of an heir, a legal heir, in the line of Abraham. You have Isaac, and then you have, and then you have Jacob. And in, in the case of, of Jacob, the apparent, the heir apparent to the throne, so to speak, of Abraham, is not Jacob, but rather is Esau. So you have Esau is, is the heir apparent, he's the firstborn son, right? He's coming through the, the birth canal first. And because Jacob grabs his heel, he is called the supplanter. So now you have a scenario in which the dragon is zeroed in on the line of Abraham.

So I'm going to pick up and I'm going to, and I'm going to read a couple more paragraphs because it's easier for me to explain this just reading what I've written than trying to recall all of these details. It gets pretty technical. Oh, yeah. I'm going to move back to the beginning of this paragraph and then, and then work forward here. Okay. It cannot be coincidental that both Abraham's wife Sarah and Isaac's wife Rebecca were barren. Remember, the dragon is poised to devour the offspring of the woman. He knows, he now knows that Abraham is the chosen line through which the Christ will come. Is it coincidental that Sarah, uh, Abraham's wife Sarah, and Isaac's wife Rebecca are both barren? I see the hand of the dragon here. Okay. Neither is it coincidental that in both cases, an ill-begotten elder sibling threatened the continuity of the family line. In the first case, it was Ishmael, and in the second, Esau. Remember, remember that Abraham, uh, ended up procreating an illegitimate son with, uh, with Sarah's handmaiden, right? And that was Ishmael, rather than waiting, rather than waiting, uh, for the promised son, who was Isaac, right? And, and that created a problem. Ishmael was an ill-begotten, illegitimate son. Furthermore, we must not fail to recognize the parallels between Cain and Abel, Ishmael and Isaac, and Esau and Jacob. Every one of these sibling contenders was directly influenced by Satan, who intended to corrupt the bloodline of the seed and usurp the birthright of Adam. Just as John had beheld, the dragon was ever poised to devour the male progeny of the woman. Had Cain, Ishmael, or Esau received the birthright instead of their younger brothers, then the birth of Christ would have been prevented, and the dragon slayer prophecy forestalled. Sarah, because of her barrenness in old age, was tempted to doubt the promise of God and persuaded Abraham to produce an heir through Hagar, her Egyptian handmaiden. Ishmael was born as a result, but the scheme failed as soon as Sarah's womb miraculously came to life and Isaac was conceived. Having learned from his previous mistake, the dragon, having learned from his previous mistake, the dragon, it seems, took a more direct approach with Rebecca.

And I'll stop there. And I go on in the book. So this should give you an idea of where, where my thought, where my thoughts are, uh, that you see Abraham, now the chosen line, Abraham knows it, so does the dragon. And so now, is it coincidental that Abraham's wife, and then Isaac's wife, are both barren, and that both of these, and that, uh, there's an illegitimate heir that comes first, attempting to usurp the birthright of Adam and foil the coming of Christ? Uh, in the case of, uh, in the case of Abraham, it fails because God brings Rebecca's womb to life, right? I'm sorry, Sarah's womb. God brings Sarah's womb to life and miraculously and brings forth a male heir, uh, that would, that, that, that would, uh, through whom the Christ would come. And then in the case of Rebecca, Isaac's wife, you have this, you have this, you have what appears to me to be the dragon taking a little bit more of a direct approach here, because you have another illegitimate firstborn son coming through the womb to, to, to usurp the birthright of Adam. And this illegitimate heir, this firstborn son, looks like, as I said, the red spawn of Bigfoot, right? So something's happening here, something very strange is occurring here. And, and thank God, and I get, and I get into this, uh, in the, by at the end of this chapter, thank God that Jacob reached up and grabbed his heel. Because Jacob is an archetype of Christ. And we're going to see this later on, because, because the story of Jacob and Esau, as I said, is a portrait of what is to come. That, that the dragon is plotting to usurp human dominion on Earth, to install his own hybrid son on the throne that belongs to the Son of Man. That is the endgame. And just like Jacob reaches up and grabs Esau's heel, so at the very end, when it all, when, when it, when all seems lost, the Son of Man, seated at the right hand of the Father, is going to grab Esau's heel, and is going to return, destroy the empire of the Beast, the hybrid son Apollo, the hybrid son of the dragon, and restore dominion for the human species, for the human race, for the sons of Adam. And that's jumping way ahead to the end of the book. But, um, but getting back specifically to Jacob and Esau, right? Jacob is called the, the supplanter, because he grabbed Esau's heel. But the truth is, Esau, Esau is the usurper here, not Jacob. Esau, Esau is an illegitimate firstborn son, and his, his, his conception, somehow, I believe, was the result of the dragon. Came about as a result of some kind of, of scheme hatched by the dragon, just like it was probably the dragon, Satan, who tempted Abraham to produce an heir through Hagar, rather than waiting for the promise of God, which created to this day, all kinds of problems for Israel, right? Right. Yeah. So in the same way, you have, you have Isaac's wife, barren Rebecca, is also barren, and also has this illegitimate firstborn son scenario. But that's not where the story ends. And I'm going to read, uh, the scripture here in my book. "Once when Jacob was cooking stew, Esau came in from the field, and he was exhausted." Now, understand that Esau, even as an adult, he's this, he's this unusually hairy, strange person, and that's that's apparent in the scriptures. And, and his personality is, is, is very interesting. He's got a very aggressive personality, Esau does. As opposed to, to, to Jacob, who seems to have much, much more of a mild personality. Esau is like this, this ferocious warrior type, um, um, I would, the word that comes to my mind when thinking of Esau is bestial. He's very, he's very bestial. He's like this hairy, uncouth, um, um, voracious, aggressive character, right? So Esau came in from the field, and he was exhausted. And Esau said to Jacob, "Let me eat some of that red stew, for I am exhausted." Interesting. It's red stew, and that, that, that connects to Esau and Edom, by the way. Jacob said, "Sell me your birthright now." Esau said, "I am about to die, of what use is a birthright to me?" And Jacob said, "Swear to me now." So he swore to him and sold his birthright to Jacob. Then Jacob gave Esau bread and lentil stew, and he ate and drank and rose and went his way. Thus Esau despised his birthright.

So this is a depiction of few authority, by the way. Esau comes in, he's starving. Jacob's making stew, and Esau is so hungry, his appetite gets the best of him, and he does something, something, um, that, that, the way I describe it is, you know, the devil is probably standing there, facepalming, as he's witnessing Esau, his, his well-crafted plan come apart, because Esau was hungry, right? And so Esau sells his birthright to Jacob. And notice that he had to swear by an oath and abdicate his birthright to Jacob before Jacob could appropriate it. Okay, that's very important. So he abdicates his birthright. And then Jacob, of course, the story goes that that Rebecca then, um, while, while Esau is away, Rebecca clothes Jacob up in Esau's clothes, which have his peculiar scent, and then she goes and she takes goat skins, and she wraps Esau's, Jacob's, uh, forearms in goat skins. That's how hairy this guy was, to mimic his brother. And she sends him into, to, uh, to Isaac's tent to receive the birthright. And of course, we all know the story. Isaac is, is blind. And when Jacob walks in the tent, he smells him first of all, and it smells like Esau. And then he touches him, and, and he touches the goat skins on Jacob's forearms, and Jacob's voice sounds different, but he smells like Esau, and he feels like Esau. So the blessing, Isaac confers the blessing to Jacob rather than Esau. And if that had not happened, Josh, then the dragon, then the Christ would not have been born in the line of Abraham. If Esau would have received the birthright rather than Jacob, that would have, that would have effectively foiled, uh, the prophecy of the seed of the woman. But Jacob received the, the blessing instead. And because Jacob received the blessing, Israel came into existence. And because Israel came into existence, uh, ultimately Christ was born of Mary in the line of David. Okay. And I know this is complicated, and I lay it out, I, I really take my time to lay all this out in the book. It's very difficult to consolidate all of this, uh, in an interview without just reading my book. Sure. Um, but I want people to understand that once Christ was born, so, so, so the dragon had to change his strategy three times, okay? The first time, I'm going to eradicate the human species, and I'm going to use, I'm going to use the Watchers. I think that, I think the dragon probably tempted the Watchers to do what they did. So that was plan, plan A. That didn't work because God preserved the seed of the woman, the genome of mankind, in Noah. Okay, that didn't work. Second strategy, now that I know who the, what, what bloodline Christ is coming through, the bloodline of Abraham, I'm going to focus my efforts on Abraham. I'm going to corrupt that line, line. I'm going to corrupt the family line. I'm going to usurp the birthright through Ishmael. That didn't work. Then through Esau. That didn't work. And then after that, it was still focusing on the family line. I'm going to destroy Israel. I'm gonna, I'm gonna fill the promised land with Nephilim and make it so that, so that Israel can't come into existence, right? According to the scriptures. That failed. So that was, that was, that was, that was his second objective, objective B, which was to focus on Israel, of in the line of Abraham. That failed. When the Virgin Mary gave birth to the dragon slayer, gave birth to the Christ, to Jesus of Nazareth. Once Jesus was born, the dragon's strategy changed again. Actually, it, he changed it four times, because this is the third change. This is, this is objective C, which was to tempt Christ. Now he knows, here's the dragon slayer, the Son of God, born as a human being through the womb of a daughter of Eve. Here he is, the, the manchild is born. So the dragon, what, what can he do now? He has to try and tempt Christ to defect from the kingdom, to tempt him to be, to join his insurgency. And he tempts him by offering him the nations. And for those people who are confused, because this probably going to cause a little bit of confusion, which I, I clarify in the book, how is it that the, that the devil had the nations to offer Christ, if humans have dominion on Earth? It's very clear what happened. And I, and I detail it in the book. Satan, when he was tempting Christ in the wilderness, said, all, when showing him, took him up on a high mountain and showed him the kingdoms of, of the Earth, right? Let's define that. What is the dragon showing Christ when he shows him the kingdoms of the Earth? He's showing him the Roman Empire, because the Roman Empire had conquered the known world. This was the height of the Roman Empire when Jesus was born, Caesar Augustus. This was the height of the Roman Empire. So the devil is showing Christ all the kingdoms of the world. He's showing him the glory of Rome, of the Roman Empire. And he says to him, "All these, the, and the authority of all these, all these, and the authority thereof, has been what? Given to me, and I can give it to whomever I please." Who gave the dragon authority? Who gave Satan authority over the nations? We did. We did. He was, you'll never find anywhere in the Bible where God gives him that authority. He doesn't. The Psalms say that the heavens, even the heavens, are the Lord's, but the Earth, he has given to the sons of men. Not, not to the devil, not, not to anyone else. He's given it to the sons of men. Who gave the devil authority over the nations? We did. Who was the patron deity of Rome? Jupiter. Jupiter was the patron deity of Rome. So Satan is showing Jesus the glory of the Roman Empire. He is the patron deity of Rome. All of the Caesars liken themselves as Jupiter, in other words, they are the inheritors of, of, they are the offspring of Jupiter, basically, is how they depicted themselves. In fact, a lot of the Caesars, like Octavian, are depicted in a statue as Jupiter, the offspring of Jupiter. So, so the Romans, the Roman emperors abdicated authority to Satan in the guise of Jupiter. And that's clear, that's a historical fact, just like the Greeks did in the guise of Zeus. So, so this is where Satan got his authority from, from us. And now he's telling Jesus, I can give you all of this. Of course, Jesus, Jesus rejects this temptation. He refuses the offer by Satan. And thank God he did, because if he didn't, you and I, and every other believer, would have no hope in the gospel. There would, we would, we would not have a redeemer, right? We would be lost. But of course, Jesus, uh, rebukes the devil and refuses his temptation, refuses his offering. Okay. So I said there were three plans. Actually, there were four, because that was the third one. And it, it continues. Because when Jesus, when Jesus could not be tempted, then the devil tried to kill him. And, uh, obviously, he didn't realize that by killing Jesus, uh, he was fulfilling the plan of God. Because the Bible says that if the powers knew, if they would have known, uh, what they were doing by killing Jesus, they wouldn't have done it, paraphrasing. So, so that was the, that was the third imagination of the dragon. And of course, according, just, just like, uh, it was depicted in the vision of the woman and the dragon in Revelation, that John beheld, Jesus is caught up to heaven after the, he was, he's resurrected from the dead, and he's caught up to heaven. He's sitting at the right hand of the Father, waiting for the command of the Father to return. Okay. Now we have the fourth imagination of the Dragon. He could not prevent the birth of Christ. He couldn't tempt him, and he couldn't kill him. So now it's, it's on to plan four, Plan D. What is that plan? Prepare for war. That's the fourth plan. The dragon, he couldn't, he couldn't, he couldn't foil the dragon slayer prophecy by eradicating the human race. That failed. He couldn't, he couldn't corrupt the line of Abraham and prevent the birth of Israel. That failed. He couldn't prevent the birth of Christ, or tempt him, or, or, or foil the prophecy by killing him. That failed. He's only got one option left. He must prepare for war, to resist the return of Christ, which is inevitable. He knows it. It's inevitable. Christ is coming. When the Father gives him the command, Jesus is returning with the armies of Heaven. The dragon knows it. He's only got one more option left. Prepare for war. Resist the return of Christ. Kinetic war, not spiritual war. Kinetic war. And that is Armageddon. And that's what's coming.

And so, uh, and, and in the same way that Esau was preempting the birth of, of Jacob, and attempting to usurp the birthright of Abraham, and by extension of, of Adam, in the same way, the plan of the dragon in our time is to usurp the human birthright by producing a claimant to the throne of Adam, who's human enough to appropriate our authority. And that is his own hybrid son, born from the womb of a daughter of Eve. And I designate him, and I believe the Bible does as well, as Apollo. Yes, the half-breed son of Satan. And I believe Apollo, and I think it's clear, the revealing of Apollo is going to happen. Yeah.

And, and this ties into what we were talking about, the alien threat. I believe that we are going to be facing at the End of the Age, the age in which we are now, the age of Pisces, at the End of the Age, we are going to be in a scenario where we are running out of time. Our genetic rope is running out. We're headed for error catastrophe, genetically speaking. The clock is running out. We're, we're degenerating. There are so many deleterious mutations in our genome that the human, uh, genome is going to be unviable. That's the first problem. The second problem, we have an alien threat. The Grays are infiltrating, uh, uh, are the Grays are infiltrating, uh, society. And through the abduction program are creating hybrids that are undetectable, and are in possession of technology the likes of which we have no defense against. And they are, they have a plan of planetary acquisition. So pretty soon, it's going to become very apparent that we need a savior. Humanity is going to need saving in a big way on these, these two fronts. Enter Apollo and his consorts, the hybrid, half-breed sons of the dragon princes, are going to show up to save us. The golden race is coming. And the, the dichotomy between our, our grotesque alien invaders, you know, the gray aliens, and the big bulbous eyes, and this frightening aspect of these very inhuman looking creatures, and that of our saviors, the golden-haired, blue-eyed, fair-skinned, tall, handsome offspring of the dragons, Apollo and his consorts, is going to be, it's, it's going to be apparent. And people are going to be enamored with these saviors, with these saviors who show up to deliver us from the alien threat, and to supplement our DNA with their own genetic markers, to upgrade us to the Overman, to the post-human. See, it's again, it's the, it's the inversion of the gospel. Right? In order to enter the kingdom of Apollo, the, the, the resurrected and, and reestablished Atlantean world order, the go, the new golden age, in order to enter the kingdom of Apollo, you must be born again. You must be reborn in his likeness. You must be a member of the golden race. In order to participate in the new golden age, there lies the mark of the Beast, in my opinion. Just like in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven in Christ, you must be born again through the resurrection, you must be resurrected to life in Christ, in order to be restored to the family of God and enter the Kingdom of Heaven. In the same way, it's an inversion of the gospel. You will be required, if you're going to participate in Apollo's new Atlantean world order, you're going to have to have his genetic markers. Because the people who receive these upgrades are going to be superior. They will be superior. I call them, in my book, I call them, uh, there's a, there's a, there's a new class division. The neo-humans, the new humans, the post-humans, and the neo-humans, the neanderthalic humans, the old, outmoded refuge of, of directed evolution. Those who refuse to evolve will be considered outcasts. They won't be allowed to participate in this new enlightened society. Why? Well, practically speaking, they won't be smart enough. They're not going to be able to compete intellectually with the post-humans, right? They're not going to be able to hold offices of government. They'd never be elected to any office of government. They're not going to be able to be professors, or even be students, students in a university. They won't even be able to keep up with the children in grade school who are enhanced. You simply won't be able to participate in society. You're an ape. You're a Neanderthal. You refuse to upgrade. You refuse to evolve. So you must go extinct. And you're just going to be ostracized from society. That's what's going to happen. And the temptation is going to be very great, because, because those who receive the genetic markers of the Beast, Apollo, are going to have their lives extended. It's, there's going to be many benefits. You're going to probably not, you're not going to be, uh, you're not going to be subject to these, these genetic diseases. You're not going to be subject to a lot of the frailties and the maladies of the present human condition. You're going to have extended life. You're going to have probably better vision, better hearing. You're going to be stronger, faster, smarter. So, do you want to evolve into the Overman? Do you want to be as different from, from, from the current version of man as man is from the ape? Do you want to be a neo-human, or do you want to be a neo-human, a Neanderthalic, science-denying ape compared to the Overman, compared to the post-human, compared to those who have received the genetic markers of the Beast? And I believe that's what's coming.

And then I, and then I portray, you know, then, then this leads to Armageddon. Because now you have a scenario in which I'm kind of giving away the punchline from my book. So I hope people go and get the book and read, read the whole thing through, because there's a ton of details in my book, uh, that lead up to all of this. But the punchline of my book is this, because it's too important to hide. The punchline, the purpose why I wrote the book. At the End of the Age, there is scarcely going to be a human being left on planet Earth. That's why the Bible says, "Unless those days were shortened, there would be no," I believe, candidates left for salvation, right? Everybody is going to be post-human. Because I think there's going to be germline genetic engineering happening. You know, if you receive the, the upgrades of Apollo, just like you said, and you, and you copulate with, let's say, a female that does not have these upgrades, you're still going to pass on your genes to your offspring. It's going to be hereditary. Just like it was in the days before Noah. That's right. This hereditary propagation of the, of the, of the genetics of the Watchers, contaminating the human gene pool. In the same way, the genetic, the propagation of Apollo's genetic markers, the genetic markers of the golden age, the half-breed offspring of the Watchers, of the dragon and his princes, are, is going to propagate through the human gene pool. And if those days are not shortened, there will be no, no candidates left for salvation on the Earth. All flesh will be corrupted. But for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened. And so we're going to have a scenario on Earth, on planet Earth, in which there, there is scarcely a human being left. The citizens of Apollo's new golden age, his new Atlantean Empire, are going to be post-humans. Those are the citizens of Apollo's new golden age. They're going to be less human than Apollo. They are going to forfeit the human race, collectively, is going to forfeit the genetic markers that make them human. And, and authority, the authority of Adam on Earth, will be usurped by the half-breed offspring of the dragon princes. Because remember, and, and I've skipped the whole deal here about Nebuchadnezzar's vision of the, his dream of the statue that's cast in different metals, remember? And the feet are iron mixed with clay. I didn't even talk about that. There's a lot of things I didn't talk about in this book that play into this scenario. This is a hybrid empire. And remember that Apollo is the, the chief. He is the, the leader. But there's also 10 kings, which corresponds to the dragon in, in Revelation, who has seven heads and 10 horns. It corresponds also to the statue of Nebuchadnezzar, casting all these different metals. The final empire are the feet, iron mixed with clay. How many toes do feet have? 10, right? There are 10 kings, hybrid kings, 10 hybrid kings at the End of the Age, just like the 10 hybrid kings, the sons of Poseidon in Atlantis. The 10 hybrid kings. That's why I said there's a, there's a mirror here. The Atlantean world order that's coming, okay? That will be established by Apollo. So Apollo is, is the leader of these 10 hybrid kings. And I believe Apollo and these 10 hybrid kings are the half-breed offspring of the dragon and his princes. And that's why when the Beast rises out of the sea, who's presiding over the rise of the Beast from the sea? The dragon is presiding over the rise of the Beast in Revelation from the sea. And the, and the Beast is almost a mirror image of the Dragon. That's because these kings are the hybrid offspring of the dragon and his princes. And the reason why they're their offspring is so that they can usurp the birthright of Adam on planet Earth, take dominion of the Earth, and install the son of Satan on the throne that belongs to the Son.

Of God, who's also the Son of Man. So, at the end of the Age, you have a scenario, and I probably don't want to give this away yet, but, but, but there's a very interesting scenario in which John is in heaven. And, uh, I guess I will, because it's, it's, it's too important to a scenario in which, well, I, I'll say, and then I'll read it. And, and I, and you know, it's probably not a great marketing, uh, uh, it's probably not good for marketing my book because I'm giving away the punchline, but it's too important not to. Well, and I can tell people too, you know, I can corroborate what you said that there's so much, I, I know, like, we've, we've done hours of interviews, but we really have only scratched the surface. There's so much, uh, in the book that we didn't have time to, to get to. People should get the book. At, at the end of, at the end of the in the Book of Revelation, um, well, before I go there, so at the end of the age, as I said, there's going to be scarcely a human being left on the planet. Apollo is going to be ruling the nations with no one to oppose him, no one. And by the way, the Bible says that the Antichrist, the Beast, is allowed, permitted to rule for a time, right? He's permitted. Why is he permitted? Because he has legally usurped the authority of Adam, and he's human enough to appropriate it. That's why he has usurped the authority of Adam, just like the W, the offspring of the Watchers did in the pre-flood world. He's legally taken dominion of the Earth because his mother's human, his father is the dragon, in my opinion. His mother's human, so he has usurped dominion of the Earth. He's ruling over the inhabitants of the Earth. It's a dystopia nightmare. And John beholds this in the Book of Revelation, and he's looking down, and he's seeing what's happened on the Earth. And, and I've got to read this, and again, I'm giving away the punchline here of the book, but it's too important not to. It's why I wrote this book. And so, if you'll permit me to flip to this, and again, I lay all of this out in great detail, so there's, there's a lot of things I'm not saying, um, that you're going to have to read the book to, to understand the intricacies and the mechanisms here, uh, that, that, um, that connect all of these pieces together. And there's, there's very important principles here that I, that I expound upon in here. Yeah, um, I'm, I'm just going to read this portion of my book. And again, I'm kind of giving it all away here, but, but it's too important not to. And, and again, if people get the book and read it, by the time they get to, to the end here, I think it's, it's, it's going to be pretty powerful.

Before Christ returns to dash the nations to pieces like a Potter's vessel, the Earth will resemble a dystopian nightmare. There will be no atheists in the new golden age, as predicted by Blavatsky. All will worship the dragon and the son, Apollo, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be blasphemed as a tyrant and impostor. Jesus will be hated, his name outlawed, and those who follow him hunted like wild animals. Apollo will rule the planet with no one to oppose him. In Revelation 5, John is caught up to the throne room of Heaven to witness a scene of tremendous implication. "Then I saw on the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, 'Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?' But no one in heaven or on Earth or under the Earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside.'" Have you ever wondered why John weeps over this scroll? Why does it, it's such profound sorrow? John's reaction always seemed so irrational to me until I realized that this scroll is the title deed of planet Earth. John is weeping because mankind has lost dominion of the realm he was created to rule, and no one is able to reclaim it for him. But that is not how the scene ends. Even if there are no more human beings left on Earth, there is still a Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Father in Heaven. Just when it appears that all is lost for the offspring of Adam, Jacob grabs hold of Esau's heel. Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals." Then I saw a lamb looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the Earth. He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the lamb. Each one had a harp and they were all holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God's people. And they sang a new song, saying, "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the Earth."

And then I write this: Jesus is able to take the scroll and open its seals because he is a Son of Adam, the root and the offspring of David, a legal inheritor of the human birthright, and a rightful claimant to the throne of his ancestors. He has all authority in Heaven as the Son of God and all authority on Earth as the Son of Man. And of course, what happens next is Jesus takes the the scroll, which is the title deed of Earth, that only he can open. And he's, he's, because he's a Son of Man, because he's a human being, he has the authority. He's a Son of Adam. He can take dominion of the Earth, even though nobody else on Earth can do it. And most of the inhabitants of the Earth are post-human. There's still a human being sitting at the right hand of the Father, waiting for the word, waiting for the Father's command to return to the Earth and take dominion for us. That's why we reign with him. And so, he begins to break the seals. And the breaking of these seals represents the destruction of the Beast seal empire on planet Earth, which each seal is a, is a new judgment. And what's happening here is that the Beast empire is being destroyed. God is, is destroying it, just like in the pre-flood world, when God brought cataclysm to the planet to, to bring to ruin, to destroy the empire of the Gods, the offspring of the Watchers in the pre-flood world. So he will do at the end of the age. He will bring cataclysm to the planet, and it will begin to destroy the empire of the Beast. And when the empire of the Beast lies in smoldering ruins, a trumpet blast will be heard in Heaven. The Father's going to give the Son the command, and the Son is going to lead the armies of Heaven back to the Earth. And, and this is Armageddon because the dragon is anticipating this. So the battle that ensues at the end of the Age, this culminating moment in the, in human history, is a kinetic war. The dragon and his forces, and the Beast and his post-human legions, are preparing to resist the return of Christ. This is not a battle between the nation of Israel and, and the other nations around it. This is not a battle about, this is not about Israel and, and the other nations of the Earth. This is about the dragon, his hybrid offspring, the post-human legions of the planet, resisting the return of Christ. That's what Armageddon is. That's what Armageddon is. It's way bigger than Israel. Israel is a type of Christ, by the way. It's a type and shadow of Christ, and it's also a type and shadow of Adam. So, so the battle of Armageddon, it's not about Israel. It's about Christ returning to take dominion of the Earth, and the Beast, the dragon, and his, and his hybrid son, resisting him in the final battle. This is the dragon's final battle. This is his, this is his last stand against, against the, the, the dragon slayer. Here comes the dragon slayer to put an end to the Beast Kingdom and to, and to put down the dragon, and, and, and fulfill the prophecy that was spoken all the way in the beginning, right? So, so you have this, this scenario in which, and I, I believe it's, I'm trying to remember if it's in Isaiah, but, but it talks about, I have it in my book, the, the exact address, biblical address of this scenario, in which, in which it talks about the Beast is, is preparing to resist the Prince of Princes. He's taking his stand against the Prince of Princes. Who is the Prince of Princes? The Prince of Peace. It's Jesus, the Son of God, who's returning to the Earth. So you have the Beast, who is marshalling the, the, the, uh, the military assets of his empire, he's gathered, which he has gathered together in Armageddon. And I believe I postulate in the book that the dragon is making a stand also, uh, somewhere else, and I, and I'll leave that a mystery until people read the book. So you have this, this dual scenario. And I, by the way, this duality of the Beast marshalling the post-human, uh, inhabitants of the Earth to make war with the return of Christ, and the dragon marshalling the other faction, his faction, this duality is apparent in the Bible. There's a conspiracy happening between the Kings and the rulers. These are two different groups. The Kings and the rulers. These are two different groups. The kings are the kings of the Earth, and the rulers are the powers that are behind the throne. So you have the kings of the Earth, the hybrid kings of the Earth, led by Apollo. And then you have the, the, these insurgent members of the Elder race, these fallen morning stars, led by the dragon. These are, these are two groups that are resisting the return of Christ. And again, this is not resisting, this is not a spiritual war. This is a kinetic war. The, the Beast is going to field the armaments of, of the Elder race on Earth, the Son of Apollo. So we're talking about, in my opinion, in my humble opinion, the, the battle of Armageddon is not going to be tanks and missiles. I think it's going to look like more, more, more like flying saucers and advanced weaponry resisting the return of Christ. It's, that's what Armageddon is. It's not to destroy Israel. It's to stop Christ from returning and fulfilling the dragon slayer prophecy and destroying once and for all the empire of the Beast and establishing his own empire. That's Armageddon. And, uh, that's the culmination of, of, uh, of the book. And that's, and that's really the culmination of human history, the first part of human history, because, because Christ, when he returns, he, he destroys, he, he, he destroys the armies of the Beast and he sets up his own kingdom, and he rules from the Throne of Adam, from the Throne of David, as a Son of Adam, the heir to the kingdom, and in the line of David. And he restores dominion of the Earth for us, to whom it was bestowed in the beginning. So Christ restores our birthright. And that's why again, we reign with him. We are the, we are the regents of Earth. And, and that is why Christ establishes his kingdom and rules, rules and reigns for a thousand years. He does what Adam was supposed to do. He restores everything. And, uh, and I go into great detail about all this. So that's the punchline. And hopefully, I've adequately explained the, the Jacob and Esau scenario. If I haven't, trust me, I got a great length to do it in the book. And I've got a lot of, there's a lot of scripture verses in this book that I incorporate, uh, that, that, uh, that, that, that tie this narrative together, the, that, that tie the narrative that I just, uh, laid out together in the, in the context of, of the scriptures. And so, um, it's the greatest story ever told. I mean, I think people, what, what people need to understand is that we are heading for a post-human paradigm and a kinetic war with God. That's what's coming. That's what's coming. War with God. Bunch of post-human legions following the Beast, following the half-breed son of the Dragon, Apollo, making war, kinetic war with God. And this, and, and, and, um, I, some of this began with a question. Some of the, the content of this book, much of the content of this book, began with a simple question that occurred to me, you know, 10 years ago, when I was contemplating these things, reading Psalm 2, which we really haven't discussed much, which is crucial to all of this, contemplating Psalm 2, where the, where the, where the kings of the Earth and the rulers are conspiring together to do what? To, to make war with God, right? And so the question that arose in my mind was, what kind of weapons do you bring to a war with God? And what is emboldening the nations that they can even make war with God? And the answer is Apollo. And the, the answer is that the, the, the, it's the nations are going to be deceived and believe that the dragon, who they will fully acknowledge, they're going to worship the dragon at the end of the age. That's apparent in Revelation. The nations are going to worship the dragon and his son, just like it's the inversion of the gospel. Just like we believers worship the Father and His Son. And, and so this is going to embolden the nations that the dragon is greater than Yahweh. That, that, that indeed Yahweh exists, that the, that the hosts of Heaven are real, they exist, but so does the dragon and his insurgency. And they're going to be convinced that the dragon is greater, that Yahweh is an impostor, Yahweh is a tyrant, he was, he was oppressing mankind, suppressing our, our divine potential, but that the dragon is going to, is illuminating us and is liberating us, and that he is the true benefactor and friend of mankind. And the nations are going to follow the dragon into war with God. There are no atheists in the new golden age. Do not believe that atheism is the future. It's not. Apatheism is the future, not atheism. The gods exist, and we shall become like them. That's the creed, the religious creed of the future. And who is like the gods? The son of the Gods, the sons of the Gods, Apollo and his consorts. So this is a, all very complicated. Uh, and I'll take a break. I apologize, again, Josh, for sucking up all the air here, but, uh, it's, it's a complex web I'm weaving here.

Well, no, I mean, that's what, that's what you're here for. Uh, and I mean, throughout that, that whole section, I, I was just, even though I read the book and I knew where you were going with it, it's still on the edge of my seat because, like you said, it, it is the greatest story ever told. And not because Timothy Alberino wrote it, but because this is an explanation of, of, what's in the Bible, what, what God is doing. And it helps fill in a lot of the, the blanks that, that we get from church, you know, a lot of times when we go to church, we get these blanks. We, we'll get, we'll get some information, but we don't get everything filled in, the actual context. And this really helps. And the amazing thing is, um, we don't have to wait, you know, we, as humanity, anybody listening, anybody watching right now, you don't have to wait for all of this stuff to come to pass to make that decision today, uh, which side of this war you're going to be on. And now that you have the information, and now that you know, you can, um, take part in your birthright and make the right decision and, uh, uh, join on the right side of this, uh, side of this cosmic war. That's exactly what receiving Christ is. If you are not with him, then you are against him. That's what Jesus said. This is, this is a, this is a, this is a cosmic war, and there's only two sides. You're either in the Kingdom or you're in the insurgency. You either stand with those who are loyal to the King, or your lot is with those who are his enemies. There's nothing in between. There is, there's no ambiguous gray area in between. So accepting Christ and believing in the gospel is, is affirming that that Jesus is Lord, as opposed to the dragon and his son. And this is going to become very apparent at the end of the Age. You know, this is the affirmation that the early church was making, um, in regards to when, when they were being forced to worship, when they were, when they were, when the Romans were trying to force the Christians to worship the Emperor as Lord. So, so you have a foreshadow there in the early church. Who is the Emperor, according to Roman myth, according to Roman theology, was the Emperor, was the son of Jupiter. So you were worshiping the, they were trying to make, force Christians, obligate Christians to worship Caesar as Lord. And the Christians, famously, refused to do so. Many of them, and were tortured and maimed and burned, uh, in Roman candles in the palace and fed to the lions in the Coliseum because they would not worship Caesar as Lord. And this, this is what's coming in the end of the age. That was a, that was a, that was a dress rehearsal for what's coming with Apollo. And, uh, the believers on the Earth, those who remain faithful to the gospel, who remain faithful to the King, will not acknowledge Apollo as Lord. They will refuse to accept him as the Christ. And so, the, the, the great deception at the end of the Age doesn't revolve around aliens, as crazy as that sounds, because aliens are still playing a big part, a big role in this, according to, to, to my analysis. It doesn't revolve, I don't believe aliens are the great deception or anything else. Uh, the great deception revolves around the question that Christ asked his disciples, "Who do men say that I am?" There in lies the essence of the great deception. Because Apollo is going to claim to be the true savior of humanity, the true Christ. There's the deception. The deception is in the identity of the Son of God. That's the deception. Apollo is an imposter Christ. He is going to, he is going to come in the place of Christ, not, not only against Christ, he's going to claim to be Christ, the true Christ, the true Son of God. And God is, is not Yahweh. God is, for lack of a better name, Lucifer. And Apollo is his anointed son. That's the deception. That's the deception. It's going to be much more powerful than any alien deception. And by the way, by the way, um, to some degree, it is an alien deception because, in effect, the golden race, Apollo and his consorts, are aliens, are, are, because they're not human, and they come from, you know, I believe also that Apollo and his, and I, and I talked about this in the book, Apollo and his golden race consorts are going to reveal to us that, in, in fact, Yahweh didn't create us. The dragon did. Lucifer created us. That he seeded life on Earth. And that, and that the human race was supposed to grow and evolve and to become gods ourselves, just like Apollo. So that's going to be, that's going to be a part of the, the deception. So, in a sense, yes, the idea that aliens are coming to save us, that being the deception, yes, that's true. That's part of the deception. But the, but the mere fact that aliens exist isn't a deception. That's not the deception. The deception revolves around the person of Christ, the identity of the Son of God. And, and it's going to be very, very black and white at the end of the Age. Those who believe in the gospel are going to proclaim that Jesus, Jesus of Nazareth, is the Son of God. He alone is Lord, as opposed to Apollo being the Son of God and he alone being Lord. And not just Lord of, uh, not, not just Lord in a general sense, but Lord of the Earth, the rightful ruler, the rightful claimant to the throne of Adam, is Christ. Is Christ Jesus, specifically Jesus of Nazareth, not the Christ consciousness, not some abstract version of Christ, not some myriad figure, but Jesus of Nazareth, who was born from the virgin womb of Mary, the fulfillment of the dragon slayer prophecy. Jesus alone is the Christ. And that is, uh, is, is going to be very important at the end of the age because, again, the question, "Who do men say that I am?" There is the crux of the matter right there. And that's why, um, those of us who, who are Christians, we have to anchor ourselves in the gospel. Because, because if we're anchored in the gospel, because the waves are coming, the sea is going to get tumultuous. Coronavirus, uh, the, um, the great reset, the, everything that's going on right now is nothing. This is nothing. This is not the end. Believe me, this is not the end. The end's a lot worse and a lot more crazy than anything we're seeing right now. This is nothing. You know, so if people are shaken now because of coronavirus and stuff, man, you better anchor yourself in the gospel because the sea is about to get a lot more tumultuous. And you have got to be anchored, or you're going to be tossed to and fro by the waves. So you've got to anchor yourself in the gospel. And people say, you know, at this point, they may be saying, well, why write about all this other stuff? Because the, the through line, the narrative of this book that I've written, is the gospel of Christ. And I demonstrate, I try to demonstrate, um, how, how the person of Christ and understanding what the gospel is. And by the way, let me end by saying this, what is the gospel of Christ? Because we talked about the emerging church and what's happening in Christianity today, in every, in every aspect, from, from the Catholic Church all the way down to the myriad of denominations of Protestant denominations, we're losing the gospel. Everything that's being taught in, in so many of these churches revolves around, um, ancillary things, and we've lost the story and the power of the gospel of Christ. Very few churches anymore actually teach the gospel. And everybody knows that Jesus died on the cross, but most churches today that I've visited and, and have, and have observed recently, that's a minor issue. It's more about social justice now. It's more about, um, issues that are relevant to modern society. It's, it's more focusing on the, as I said, the ancillary issues surrounding the gospel. We have forgotten what the gospel is. We have forgotten who we are. And when we realize that we are the prodigal son, that we are indentured to the swineherd, and that we are eating the slop of pigs, and that we are destitute, when we recognize our depravity, realizing that mankind, that Adam began in the household of God, that he was a Son of God in the family, and that he was sundered because of sin, sundered from the family of God, and now we are in this condition of sin and death, degeneration, when we recognize our depravity, our desire should be to repent, right? Just like the prodigal son. Even the servants in my Father's house are living better than this, right? With this desire to be, to be to return to the Father's house. And that is, that is manifest in repentance. You have to, you have to acknowledge your destitution, your depravity, before you can repent. Today, many modern churches, they're not, they're not revealing our destitution, our depravity. They don't want to talk about our depravity. How can you repent if you don't recognize that you're eating the slop of pigs? How can you want to return to the Father's house if you don't realize that you've been sundered from it? This is where repentance begins. You realize that you are a prodigal son, indentured to the swineherd, to Satan, and you realize the magnitude, the height of your fall from where you started, your, your father Adam, who he was, and what he was. That's where it begins. And then you recognize, you recognize the gospel, which is that Jesus Christ redeemed, through the cross, through the shedding of his blood on the cross, he died in our place, he paid the penalty for our sin, he redeemed us on the cross, and with his blood, he purchased men for God from every tribe and tongue and nation. That's the first thing he did. He redeemed us in order that we might be reconciled to the Father and to the family of God. Reconcile, because reconciliation means to be brought back into fellowship. Reconciliation is friendship restored, because right now, we are not the friends of God. We who are born into this condition of depravity and destitution, the prodigal sons, we are enemies of God. The Bible says we are enemies of God. So Christ paid the price for our sins on the cross. He redeemed us from the dragon, because our condemnation without Christ is with the dragon. Okay? We are condemned with him. That's why the Bible says that hell was created not for us, it was created for the devil and his angels. But those of us who reject Christ, our lot is with the insurgency, the dragon and his insurgency. So Christ redeems us, he purchases us back, he pays the price of our penalty, so that we're no longer condemned. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. So we're redeemed, so that we might be reconciled to God, and we're no longer enemies to God. Now we're the friends of God, like Adam, who walked in, in the cool of the day with the Maker, restored to the family of God. And that's the third thing. See, we're redeemed, we're reconciled in Christ, and then we are restored. We, everything that was lost in Adam is regained in the Son of Man, is regained, is regained in Christ Jesus. So everything that we lost in Adam, we're going to get it back and more so through Jesus Christ at the resurrection. And so that is the hope of a believer. And those of us who believe in Christ, we put our faith in what I just said, the gospel of Christ, the death and the resurrection of Jesus Christ, believing that through him, we will be reconciled to the Father and restored to what we were created to be in the beginning, to Adam, the Son of God. Jesus is the second Adam. Our blueprint is going to be reset at the resurrection to what it was supposed to be, to the blueprint of Adam. So our genetic blueprint is reset to the original blueprint of the human species, to what Adam was created to be. And this happens through Christ at the resurrection. That's why he's the second Adam. He restores us to the blueprint of Adam. And we're all going to be, in fact, at the resurrection, we're going to be more human than we are now, because we are mutants. We're genetic mutants right now. We are so, degenerate. We have degenerated from Adam so much that when, at the resurrection, all of these imperfections, all of these genetic imperfections, as we talked about, I think a couple of times ago, are going to be remedied. The human condition will be rectified in Christ. And see, this is what the transhumanists are trying to do. They, they're talking about, they're talking about, what's the word that they use, uh, um, improving the human condition. The human condition is sin and death and enmity with God. You can't improve the human condition with technology. You can't restore your relationship with the Maker through technology. That happens exclusively to the Son of God, who paid the penalty for our sin. And, you know, they're talking about the transhuman, the transhumanists and the and the futurists and, and the mystics at this point are talking about this, this, this post-human condition, humanity 2.0, in which we're going to evolve into, into a superior form of Homo sapien, Homo Deus, the God-man, right? I talk about that in my book. But it is an, again, it's an inversion of the gospel. Because there is such a thing as humanity 2.0. Jesus Christ is humanity 2.0. He is the reset of the human species to what we were supposed to be in the beginning. And that is, that is the glory of, of, of what's coming for those who believe in Christ. Those who, who, who die in Christ, are also going to be raised in Christ and restored to everything that was lost in Adam. See, that is the power of the gospel. And you don't, you don't hear it anymore. I mean, rarely. I mean, certain places you do, of course, but, but you rarely hear that. And, and so again, the problem is that you cannot come to repentance until you realize that you are destitute and naked and poor, like Jesus says in, in the, in the Book of Revelation, and that we need to buy from him gold, we need to be re-clothed. We are, we are the prodigal son eating a slop of pigs. And so for those who are listening to me, who are not believers, this is the gospel of Christ. I mean, this is the story of mankind. Jesus Christ is the greatest human hero humanity has ever known. And so, you know, that this is, this is my motivation for writing the book. I mean, this is, this is, the, the, the core of what's, of this is, this is the fire that's burning inside of me, is to remind people of the gospel and, and to, to ignite a new found fascination in, in people's hearts for the gospel of Christ. I mean, it's, it's not, it's not just something that's interesting and intriguing. It is absolutely necessary that we recover the gospel before those days are upon us. Amen.

I, I totally agree. Let's say that there are people out there right now who are feeling convicted about this. They're listening to this, it makes sense, and they recognize that even in their own lives, they've either never, uh, given their lives to Christ, or maybe they said a prayer years ago, but never really thought about it since then, and they don't really understand what the process looks like. Let's say that they're, they're at that point where they recognize that they're sinners, they recognize that their standing with God is not, uh, in the place that it should be right now. Uh, what is their next step? How do they get this process, uh, started with actually, um, uh, being reconciled with Christ? What, what do they do? They do what Peter did when Jesus asked that imperative question, "Who do men say that I am?" And his disciples replied, "Some say you're the prophet, some say you're Elijah." And Jesus said, "But who do you say that I am?" And here's the declaration. This is, this is the declaration of faith from a believer, all right? Peter's response: "You are the Son of God. You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God." And Jesus said, "Flesh and blood have not revealed this to you, but my Father." So there's the answer. You recognize who Jesus is, and you put your faith in him. That's it. You recognize that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, the one of whom the prophet spoke. He is the, the fulfillment of the prophecies pertaining to the Messiah, and he is the Son of God that is saving faith. That is the declaration of a believer. It's, and it's, it's that pivotal question, "Who do men say that I am?" "You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God." You know, even the Centurion, I, and again, I discussed this in my book, even the Centurion who approached Christ and who asked Jesus that, he, he had a servant that was sick at home, and, and, and if Jesus would heal that servant, paraphrasing. And Jesus said, "Well, I'll come to your house. Let's go to your house." And what did the Centurion, okay, of the Roman Empire, a pagan, what did the Centurion say? "No, no, no, no. I'm not worthy for you to come under my roof. I'm a man under authority. I understand authority. I understand," paraphrasing, "who you are." Because what was Jesus saying? Name, he's, who's he, who's Jesus always referring to and talking about? "My Father, my Heavenly Father, my Father who is in Heaven." Right? So the Centurion recognized that Jesus was the Son of God, the son of his Father in Heaven. And so he said, "I'm a man under authority." Whose authority was the Centurion under? Caesar of Rome, right? That he was a Centurion in the Roman Empire, and he recognized that Jesus was the Son of God, operating in the authority of his Father. And he said, "I'm not worthy for you to come to my home. Just say the word, and my servant will be healed." And what did Jesus say? "I haven't even found this kind of faith in Israel." And then he said this, he said that, that, paraphrasing this guy, again, paraphrasing this guy, this Centurion of the Roman Empire, this Italian, is going to be sitting at the table with Abraham in the Kingdom of Heaven. And the implication is, and many of you are not talking to the Jews, because they, many of them didn't believe in him. But this Centurion of the Roman Empire is going to be sitting with Abraham in the Kingdom, at the banquet table in the Kingdom of Heaven. What was Jesus saying? That that Centurion's recognition of Jesus's authority, his recognition of who Jesus was, was saving faith. That's what Jesus was saying. And so, in the same way that the Centurion recognized that Jesus was the Son of God, endowed with the authority of his Father, if we recognize that same thing, that this man, Jesus of Nazareth, born of Mary, the fulfillment of all the prophecies and the, in the Hebrew scriptures, that this man, truly, this is the Son of God. Another Centurion remarked, "Surely this is the Son of God" when Jesus hung on the cross. That's the declaration of faith, and that is saving faith. Believing in Christ. That's what it means to believe in Christ. You recognize who he is, and who he is, is who he claimed to be. Not who other people say he was. Not "Who do men say that I am?" He is the Messiah, the Son, Son of God. That's saving faith. So the short answer after that long explanation is: Believe in Christ. Believe in Christ. You recognize your depravity, you repent, and you cling to Christ, believing that he died for your sins to redeem you from condemnation with the dragon, to reconcile you to the Father, and to restore all that was lost at the fall. That's faith in Christ. Absolutely.

A, amen. And it's, uh, beautifully said. And if you, you know, if you're watching this now and you can make that declaration, if that's something you can confess, then welcome to the family. You know, now, now you can, uh, get in your Bible, read the gospel, re, you know, start doing Bible studies, you pray, you know, develop this relationship you now have with Christ. But it all starts there, exactly as Tim said, with that, uh, with that recognition and with repentance, turning away from sin. Uh, Tim, this has been absolutely phenomenal. I really can't thank you enough for taking all the time to, to go through your book and to talk about, uh, everything in it. And like I said before, um, there's a lot of things that, uh, we just didn't have time to get to. People really should get the book to get the full story, uh, because we really did just touch like the tip of the iceberg here. Where can people, uh, get your book and follow you online? Well, my book is available on Amazon, and it's the only place it's available right now, is amazon.com. You can go to Amazon, just type my name in the search, and you should find my book. It's called Birthright. It's called, I always forget the subtitle because it's so long. I got a Tom Horn subtitle here. It's called Birthright: The Coming Post-Human Apocalypse and the Usurpation of Adam's Dominion on Planet Earth. And, uh, so you can find it on Amazon. Um, I have a website, TimothyAlberino.com. If you want to follow me, really, the best way to follow me is, I have a YouTube channel. I don't know how long that's going to last. So the best way to follow me is to sign up for my mailing list on my website. And, uh, it's somewhere, I'm going to be moving things around on my website, so you might have to search for it, but there's a, there's a sign up for the mailing list notification on the website. Currently, it's at the bottom, but maybe by the time people see this, I'm going to move it up so it's more conspicuous. Um, so that's the best way to follow me because, you know, even if YouTube takes me down, which it probably will again, they're already shadow banning me all over the place. Um, um, which is interesting because I think they're shadow, I'll be honest with you, Josh, I believe they're shadow banning me because of my, my witness for the gospel, more than anything else. Um, and they don't like it. And I, for, because I've been gone for two years, basically, and I show up on the scene and I find that I'm still being shadow banned all over the place. And I don't even say things that are half as controversial as, as Tom and Steve and La Marulli, guys like this. Uh, uh, it's, I agree with those guys, but I haven't said the, the things publicly, some of the things that they've said, um, and yet I'm being shadow banned left and right, which I can only assume that it's, that it's, it's for the kind of things I'm talking about here in my book. So the best way to follow me is to, is to, is to sign up on that mailing list. That way, you'll be in direct contact with me without the interference of Big Tech. Excellent. You got time for a couple, uh, viewer questions? Sure. Excellent. So we did get some viewer questions. And by the way, I can corroborate what Tim's saying about the shadow banning thing, because, uh, many of you follow me on Facebook. My Facebook friends list has been filled up to 5,000 for years now. And so I've got more than enough people. And when I typed, when I typed in, "I'm interviewing Timothy Alberino," you know, that used his full name, who hasn't been on the scene for a long time, many of you have asked about him, uh, we're finally able to do an interview. If you have any questions, feel free to put them in the comments and we'll ask them during the, the show. Crickets. But, and I knew something was up with that, because I, I get private messages from people asking, uh, asking about you and, you know, asking if everything's okay. But then when I said, um, "Last call for, uh, questions for Tim Alberino," it blew up. I got, I got a bunch of responses. So I think they, I think they have specifically your name, uh, uh, and, and they're shadow banning that or targeting it to some extent. And they're doing, screw them. Yeah, they're, they're doing the same to me. They've deleted, uh, entire videos, they've deleted channels of ours. But that's okay. Like, like I've said before, we've built our own thing at DailyRenegade.com. So we do that. Let's, let's get into some viewer questions here. Um, this is from Facebook and, uh, Twitter. We'll start with, I'll just do first names. We'll start with Bill here, is saying, uh, uh, "I'm wondering what, what Tim thinks the abomination of desolation is." I don't know. All right, next question. Oh, you got, you got no thoughts on it? Not, not really. There's a lot of things in Revelation that, uh, I, I do, I do a very, um, a very, uh, I don't get into the depths of, of, of a lot of what's in Revelation in, in my book. I, I just kind of survey the contour, the perimeters, the main point. Revelation is a very highly esoteric book, and it requires, to some extent, it, it requires a mind much more potent than my own to unravel some of this. So I don't get into the weeds of all the details. And so when you talk about the specifics like the abomination of desolation, I will say that, um, a lot of what's in prophecy has a fulfillment in what was, what is, and what is to come, or at least what was and what is to come. There was a lot of type and shadow in prophecy. So, one of the abominations of desolation, I think certainly was when Antiochus Epiphanes sacrificed a pig on the altar of Yahweh in the temple. I believe that that was a foreshadow of something, uh, that was, that's coming at the end of the age. And so that was certainly, I think, a partial fulfillment of the abomination of desolation. And, uh, Antiochus Epiphanes killed, uh, tens of thousands of Jews, slaughtered many Jews, sacrificed the pig on the altar of Yahweh, and, and which was of course an extreme offense to the, to the Jews, and, and it was an abomination. So I think there's certainly some, some, uh, some fulfillment of that prophecy in Antiochus Epiphanes, but Antiochus Epiphanes is a foreshadow of Apollo. Yeah, definitely. Uh, Julius on on Twitter is asking, um, "Reading, reading the first chapter." So I guess he just got your book, he just started it. "Question, if angels are our older siblings, how can we understand 1 Peter 1:12?" And I just brought that up. "1 Peter 1:12 reads, 'It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves, but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through, those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from Heaven, things into which angels long to look.'" Well, the angels are fascinated with the gospel, that, that, that King of Heaven, that the Son of God would humble himself to be born as a human being in our condition, uh, to restore us, to redeem us, reconcile us to God, and restore us to Adam. This is a great mystery to them. This was a great mystery to the, to the angels. Remember, they would represent in the, in the, in the, um, parable of the, of the prodigal son, they're the ones who never left, at least the ones who never defected. And so, um, I don't see any contradiction whatsoever with, uh, with the angels' longing to look into these things. I think they're just as fascinated, if not more fascinated than we are, with the gospel, because remember, Christ did not die for the angels. He died for us. He didn't, he didn't become an angel to redeem angels. He became a man to redeem men. So, um, I don't, there, I don't, I don't see any contradiction, uh, whatsoever. Absolutely. Uh, Wendy May is asking, uh, or writing, "Fantastic, can't wait." She's talking about the interview that I, uh, posted about, uh, this one that we're having now. "I watched his teaching from True Legends 2019 and haven't been able to find any other info, uh, from Tim Alberino. No longer on YouTube, question mark. Is he on any other platform to keep up with, with, uh, information?" Well, I'm on YouTube, um, for now. I'll probably create a Rumble account. Probably. I'm on Parlor. I haven't posted anything on Parlor yet, and I'm on Twitter. Excellent. Um, I'm, I'm not real active on social media. I don't really like social media, but I try to be every now and again. If I get ticked off about something going on, I might post on Twitter, or if I have something that I want to announce. But again, the best way to follow me is through that mailing list, because there's no intermediary, there's no Big Tech intermediary. It's me directly communicating with people who want to follow me. So, and I've got other things in the works, by the way. Working on a TV show, working on some really cool stuff that's, I'll be dropping some information about that too.

On that mailing list, excellent. Yeah, and we talked about some of that stuff in part one. So, if people are curious about that, uh, you can go back and and watch the, it was like right in the beginning of, uh, the first interview. Um, lots of amazing things coming out, uh, really exciting stuff.

Um, Tor is, uh, asking, would, uh, I would be interested in knowing whether Tim believes if the church era Saints will actually take the place of the Fallen Angels. I'm, I'm assuming they, they mean the place that they originally had, uh, and obtain positions of rulership with Christ over the millennial world as part of their Birthright inheritance with Christ. Well, something that we never discussed is that I think that the Kingdom of Heaven is comprised of of many realms. And so, uh, you know, we have an inheritance with our older brother. He has an inheritance too. And so ours is different to some extent. We're human. We're, we're the angels are not human beings. That's why I call them the Elder race. I distinguish them from human beings as opposed to the human race. So our inheritance in Christ is somewhat different, but there's also similarities. That's why Paul says, "with whom the in whom the in Christ, in whom the whole family in heaven and on Earth is named." And so, um, we're certainly part of the family. We're going to be sons of God together with them in the Kingdom. So I think a lot of confusion comes from this idea, this the notion that we're going to judge angels. And so I think that that one reference that we're going to judge angels, people assume that we're going to be higher than angels, which I'm not so sure that that's what that means. I think we're going to judge angels. We're going to judge the angels that transgressed in our realm, right? Those are the angels we're going to judge. Uh, we're going to judge the ones that committed a crime in under our, in our jurisdiction. Uh, so and that makes sense in, in the, in the, uh, in the context of, of, of kingdom and empire and, and us being the regions of the earth. So, um, you know, uh, the, the, the, the, the angels that have not defected, the sons of God in heaven who've not defected, they're in the Kingdom right now. They're in the kingdom. And so, yes, they minister to us. Yes, to some extent, they, they serve us, just as we minister to one another and serve one another. Isn't that what we're supposed to do as believers? We minister to the brethren and we serve the brethren. It's a family. So, um, we kind of lost track of the question and all that, but anyway, yeah, that answers it.

Yeah, it does. Yeah, yeah, definitely because it just about like if we're taking place of these angels and I, I think you, uh, definitely answered that.

Drew Donner is, uh, saying, Tim, once mentioned an article in a magazine about an explorer or maybe a group of people that ran into a large human while coming out of the Amazon. Was that story from National Geographic or a different magazine? I'm, I'm pretty sure it was National Geographic and it was in Peru. And it was, I forget the explorer's name. You can still find it online. He, he reported having, he was looking for a lost city. He went up in, and I was going up a mountain, something I was doing recently actually, and, and ran into a very large man who put his hand up and indicated that they were not allowed to go any further. That was a story I believe it was in National Geographic. I'm not, I don't remember exactly. You can kind of look it up online. It's hard to find, but I've read the article several times. It is an article from one of those kind of sources and it was reported, um, by a very credible person.

Excellent. Uh, Jason Bellinger has, uh, two questions. First, uh, what does Tim believe about the true origin and purpose of the Great Pyramids? Now, I'll let you answer that and then I'll ask a second one.

I don't know about the Great Pyramids. Um, there are several possibilities. When you talk about megaliths in general, we all assume that the megaliths were built by the bad guys, you know. There's, you know, it's actually the title of, uh, my, of, of the first True Legend series, uh, first installment of the True Legend series, Technology of the Fallen, which, um, I've since come to realize that that megaliths and things of this nature aren't necessarily, can't, aren't necessarily attributable to just the, the bad guys. I mean, what if, what if some of this stuff was built by the good guys? Because the antediluvians were exceptional, remarkable human beings, the good ones, the line of Seth, not just the line of Cain. And we're much smarter than we are, much, much more physically robust than we are, and probably in possession of of advanced knowledge that didn't come from the Watchers, but came from God. You know, the Watchers brought corrupting knowledge, but God didn't leave mankind. He didn't, he didn't leave us to wander around in ignorance. God gave Adam knowledge, knowledge that would be, um, profitable to him. The Watchers gave mankind knowledge that would lead to corruption. So, and who knows what that, who knows what the, the kind of things that Adam and his offspring, the, the line of Seth knew. Um, so in terms of the pyramids, I don't know. I mean, um, how old are the pyramids? I don't know. I tend to agree with Graham Hancock that the Sphinx and the, the layout of the Giza Plateau are exceedingly ancient, definitely antediluvian. But that maybe the pyramid itself was built up in a, in, in exactly in the timeframe that Egyptologists think, say it was, or maybe not. Maybe it was a pre-flood construction. I think the Sphinx definitely is a pre-flood construction, and the temples in front of the Sphinx, again, I agree with Hancock in that respect. Um, they're megalithic. So I don't know exactly what the purpose of pyramids or who built them was. I do speculate in my book about some of that in the footnotes, especially, um, and I may be writing about some of that in the future. And by the way, I do address that, some of that in the, the TV series I'm developing right now. By the way, when we talk about pre-adamic stuff, that, who knows? Who knows? I mean, I mean, is something pre-adamic? There's no way to know. I tend to think that there probably isn't anything left, anything pre-pre left on the earth. I believe that the mountains literally melted like wax, um, when Rahab exploded. So if the mountains are melting like wax, uh, that means that you're dealing with a heat, with, with a level of, of heat that's going to melt megaliths as well. It's going to melt stone. Mountains are, are that's the substance of what megaliths are made out of, you know, the granite and the, and the andesite and so forth. So if that, if the mountains are melting like wax, and you can, you can be assured that any, everything else is melting like wax as well. So I believe that the, it's likely that if the Earth was subject to this incredibly, this unimaginably destructive cataclysm before it was renewed, then I, I've got to believe that every, all, every residue of an, an, of a, of a pre-adamic civilization was totally eradicated.

Yeah, yeah, definitely makes sense. Uh, his question too is, uh, what effect did Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension have on the non-ar realms? Maybe different planets or inhabited planets or, uh, spiritual realms?

That's a tricky question. I don't believe there are spiritual realms. I just believe there are realms. Um, I don't think that you can separate the spirit, um, from the, the, the metaphysical from the material. I think they're two sides of the same coin. So I don't believe that there's a separate real, a separate spiritual realm. Uh, I think that all things consist in Christ, and that there's one universe. And I, and I do, there's not, in other words, there's not a separate universe for the physical and a separate universe for the, for the spiritual. It's, it's all one reality. And, um, and I make that point in the book, and I go into that in length in the book. Um, so, um, what was the rest of the question? Uh, yeah, yeah, what, what, what, um, I'm gonna scroll back up. All right, yeah, what effect did Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension have on non-ar? Yeah, the, the short answer is I don't know. Um, there's definitely something there. I haven't really taken much time to contemplate it. Uh, there's something there and I don't know exactly what, what that means. Um, but, but, but the, the, the redemption that what Christ achieved, what Christ accomplished has cosmic implications. That's apparent in the scriptures. What those cosmic implications are, I don't know.

Yeah, same here. That's something I've often thought about too. Uh, and there's one, there, there's actually like three other questions, but they were all things that we've answered, answered, uh, throughout the, uh, series. So it would just be repeating the same information. But there is one more that I've asked you before and I'm going to keep asking until you finally break down and tell me because you haven't even told me this in private. And, uh, Maria is asking, what happened to Tim in the jungle? He promised to reveal it last summer.

I never made such a promise. I didn't think so. Yeah, I saw, I saw she, she wrote that. I was like, a clever, that's a clever question. But I never made such a promise. Uh, you know, I've alluded to some things and I've never said, never, not one time publicly. When I say, what happened to me in the jungle, I've never. So people, if they think it has to do with, you know, some of the things I've mentioned before, like the demon-possessed people I've had to deal with in the, in the, uh, Peru and things like that, or the stuff about the ayahuasca, none of that is, is a reference to what happened to me in the jungle. So, um, and that is something that I, I don't know that I'll ever reveal. It was a very personal thing and, and I don't know that it's profitable for me to, to, to reveal it. Uh, I suppose I should have never teased anybody with that. But it was the, it was the moment. It was the most defining moment of my life. And it, and it was something very, very bad, and something very, very good that happened in that order. And, um, and it, it, it, it, it set me on the course that I'm on now. And, and all I can tell you is I set out into the Amazon. You know, I left when I was 18, and then I was in the Amazon when I was 19 and 20. And, and, and I, my, my mission, my purpose in life at that time was to encounter God. That was it. Encounter God or die trying. And I know that sounds weird. Why would I go to the Amazon? But I had my reasons. And, um, and I never, there was no narcotics involved, all believe me. No ayahuasca or anything like that. I, you know, I never, never, I've never taken anything like that. I've never smoked marijuana or anything like that, ever, not one time in my life. Um, and so I, I set out into the Amazon to encounter God. And I, I'm, I'm talking like a burning bush encounter. I wanted to hear the audible voice of God. I wanted to encounter God. I wanted to have a burning bush encounter. And the only thing I'll say about it is I encountered something unexpected, and then I had an encounter with God that was also unexpected, that was incredible, and that changed my life in the Amazon.

Well, I, I definitely totally understand. Um, you know, having something personal like that and then not wanting to reveal it to the world. Keep, you know, having something that's just between you and God. I, I have things like that and I, I totally understand. Was there anything with that that you, that you learned, uh, or, or anything that you were able to take from that that you wouldn't have been able to any other way?

I learned the power and potency of deception. Deception is not just believing a lie. Deception is a palpable power. And, um, I was confronted with the reality of my adversary. And, and I was, I was, it was during that period of time that the gospel of Christ really became, I grew up in the church, you know, my dad was a pastor, very good pastor, and I had a great upbringing. But it was the first time in my life I truly began to understand the gospel in, in, in a way that that has forever impacted me and, and has put me on this, the course of writing this book. And so, and so it was, it was, uh, it was an encounter that that demonstrated to me, A, the power and potency of deception, and B, the glory of the gospel of Christ and the goodness of God. Amen.

Well, I, I will be respectful and leave it there. But just, uh, just so you know, it would take me, it would take me as long as we've been doing all these interviews. It would take me that long to tell the story. As long as we remain friends, I'm going to keep trying to get it out of you. Even though maybe one day I'll write about it. But I don't know. I mean, it's just, uh, it's just again, it's, it's very personal and I'm not sure it's even profitable, uh, to talk about it publicly.

Yeah, totally understandable. Well, thank you for sharing what you did, though. And thank you for again for doing this whole, uh, series. I know when we, when we first started talking about this, it was going to be just one interview. And then after I had a chance to really read your book and go through it, uh, like I said before, uh, in the first interview, it reminded me a lot of the structure of Mark Flynn's book. And with his, uh, we ended up doing a, a long series as well. And it, it really needed that. I have not come across another book, uh, where I've thought the same thing. You know, where I've thought like it really needs a series until, uh, Birthright. And so I really go back and listen to that. I don't think I've ever listened to that series you did with Mark. And I've never met Mark personally. Um, but interesting that Mark and I are identical twins. Right? Well, he's an identical twin and you're an identical twin. You, you guys aren't like identical with each other. Brother Anthony, right? Right. Exactly. Yeah. I think I think you and Mark would really get along well. Um, but yeah, so I just really appreciate you taking the time for this and, uh, sharing your book with us and for, uh, doing it on, on, you know, my show. You got full, full reign to pick any show that you want, and I'm honored that it was mine. So thank you so much for being on.

I thank you, Josh. And I think you do a tremendous job. And I think your audience really appreciates that you give the people you're interviewing the space to actually expound on, on, on what their, what their material is about. So many times other people will interview and kind of interject and, and, and, and want to add in a lot of their own, um, their own material, which is fine. But, but in order to get through, uh, complex content in, in a book like this, you really need the space to just lay it out. And, and, and I, and I really appreciate that you're giving me the time and, and, and allowing me to do that.

My pleasure. Anytime. Hey, next time, uh, things start moving or, or whenever you get some new developments or something, anytime you want to come back on the show, uh, even if it's just for an announcement or just whatever, if you got something burning on your heart and you want to come and talk about it, open door. You always have an invitation.

I appreciate that. Well, thank you again. And thank all of you for watching. Uh, what an amazing series. And it's not amazing because of anything with me. It's amazing because of our, uh, our, our guest, Timothy Alberino, and his book, Birthright. I highly suggest you go and pick it up. There's a lot of areas, believe it or not, that we did not have time to, uh, get through even in this multi-hour long series. So you want to get the book and you want to see where all of these, uh, trails lead. So make sure you do that. The website again is TimothyAlberino.com. You can find his book on Amazon. Please sign up for his newsletter. And if you want more amazing content like this, head on over to DailyRenegade.com and become a member today. We have, uh, it's not just this show. We have, I think, five different shows now. So you're going to find something that you like. What's amazing about it is, it's, it's all family-friendly. So don't bother giving your money to Netflix. Come, come hang out with us. Be a part of the family. We'd love to have you. And you get a lot of, uh, great family-friendly, family-friendly, uh, interviews, TV shows, talking head stuff, documentary stuff, lots, lots of great things. So that website again, DailyRenegade.com. Thank you all so much for joining us. And until next time, love you all. Take care and God bless.