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You have such a unique perspective, uh, given your lifespan and your vast experience. And now you're leading a campus full of these young people. I'm parenting three. So I think there's a lot of bright spots in Gen Z. But I'd love to know, what do you find to be, uh, maybe the most impressive trait of this young generation that you're currently leading?
Well, first of all, I'm very hopeful about the future of America and the world. I believe that young people are the, are our future, for sure. So, we have no choice but to look at a young person and say, "That person can climb the highest ladder." There's no such thing as unrealistic dreams, only unrealistic timelines. It is our duty as, as leaders to, to guide them, to enable them to learn and to do good things.
Now, I think that this generation has grown up with a very different, uh, set of technology, of, of access to all kinds of resources that I certainly didn't have. And so, uh, we can't expect them to think exactly the way you and I think, and we can't expect them to behave exactly the way that you and I behave. But what we can expect of them is that they will reach up to the, to the highest standards of excellence. In other words, I don't believe anybody can be necessarily unique in a, in an or in an organization, a corporation, but they can be distinctive. They can stand tall. They can do things better, faster. And so, I'm very hopeful about this generation. I think our duty is to make sure that they're learning and growing and seeing leaders who emulate the very essence of what life can be. And in so doing, they can achieve their own dreams in their own way.
I, I don't know what my grandkids will do. I have young grandkids. I, I, I worry about them somewhat that the world is moving so fast. There's so much access to information today that the ability to decipher and to be discerning and to understand the difference in content, which is everywhere, can and context, that how do we use that content in the environment in which we reside and the circles of influence where we choose to be?
>> For leaders that are going to be hiring these young people. You talk about High Point, the Life Skills University, the premium that's, that's the strong, strong, uh, case that you make. But I do want to ask you, is there something unique about this current generation right now in school that leaders need to go, "Hey, we need to overlook some of these other things we might gripe about and see this unique skill set or some characteristic of them?" What, what is that that you see?
>> I think curiosity. I think this generation is very curious. I think they've been, they've had access to so much information, >> that their curiosity will take them good places if they have the right heroes, models, and mentors in their life. But, but, you know, can, if all you have is information, which is everywhere, people will use you and discard you. But if you have knowledge, people will call upon you only when they need you. >> But if what you have is wisdom, people will respect you. So I think our job as leaders is to ensure that young people also grow in wisdom, that they have a vision of what it means to be a person living in balance. A person who has values about life and living, a person who can pursue principles with a sense of honesty and and integrity. You can, you can do anything you want in life, but you have to do it in a context with other people. And simple things like respect, like caring, like generosity, the sense of fellowship and teamwork and, and the cohesive attitude that we must have to create a community. These are the kinds of things that I believe that young people have to have to learn and understand, and we as leaders have to enable them to enter that kind of zone.
>> Yeah. I, I want to dive deeper on this wisdom issue. If you were speaking to every young person in the world, let's call a college-age kid. >> What would you say tactically? Do this or do these few things >> to gain wisdom?
>> You know, Ken, uh, I have to tell you, my father died when I was 6 years of age. I never had a dad. Somebody would ask me the question, "If you could change your life and have anything you want, what would that have been?" I would have much rather have had a dad. Who would have, would have taken me to the circus, thrown me a ball, or, or, or sang me a song, or read me a book, or just told me, "I love you." >> I never had that. >> But what I had was a mom who had fourth-grade education. A mom who probably today would qualify as someone who had a post-graduate degree in a discipline, in a skill, in a gift called uncommon sense. >> Wisdom. Yes. Seeing beyond the obvious, digging deeper, not just thinking horizontally and not even vertically, but diagonally. The, the correlation of ideas that comes together to make for a better tomorrow. So any little wisdom I've discovered in my life has come from this most unsuspected source, my mother with fourth-grade education.
>> And this is what I would say to young people to answer your question. I would say, "Who you spend time with is who you become." Who you spend time with is who you become. We know who you are by the three to five friends that you spend most of your time with, because we're byproducts of the environments in which we, in which we live, in which we work. I would say to young people, "What you choose is what you get." The circumstances in which you find yourself today do not define where you end up. They only tell us where you start. But we'll know where you're going to end up based on the choices you make. And I would say, "How you change is how you succeed." We're living in an ever-changing global marketplace, competitive, fast-moving. Today, people say, say speed is more important than accuracy sometimes. And so I would say to them tactically, "Hang around the right people."
>> Yeah. >> "Think before you make a choice. Learn to deal with change in a way that can lead you to transformation." In other words, achieving your fullest potential.
>> Love that. That's so good. Okay. Fun little tradition we have here. In this envelope is a, is a photo. And, uh, this is from, you're not too far past, but I want you to take the audience to where you are mentally and emotionally in this moment and, and, and how you navigated forward.
>> Okay. You've been talking to my therapist again?
>> No, not at all.
>> Let's see. Okay. This is, this is like my first month. >> Yes. >> At High Point University. Um, you know, for 33 years I built businesses and, uh, I traveled the world and I spoke to millions of people about life, about living, about leadership, about success, about significance, about impact. And, and I was going to be the chairman of the board of High Point University, and they asked me to come and be president. I did not want to be president. I was doing very well in my life. Um, but it nagged away at me that sometimes in life, an opportunity comes disguised as a challenge. And I just kept thinking and searching, and my heart said, "Yeah, maybe you ought to do this. Maybe you can plant seeds of greatness in the minds, hearts, and souls of young people. Maybe in some way you can help them." After all, I came to America at age 17 with no money, hardly knowing the language. Didn't know anybody. I was, I was sad. I was homesick. I was alone. I was scared. But somehow, with God's grace and the help of others, I've been able to make something of my life. I started six businesses and, and became successful. So I realized that I could do something at High Point. And what this picture is, is without reading the content of it, that I spoke to an audience with faithful courage. I said, "High Point University is not looking good. It's been losing freshmen about 20% a year. We're down to 1400 students in total. The place has $120 million in, in, in deferred maintenance. We got to do something. You can't position yourself in the marketplace where there is a competitive terrain where people have other choices unless you have a product you can really be proud of." And so I said, "We have to raise some money."
>> Yeah. And I said, "We're going to have to raise $10 million in the next 60 days just to paint some buildings and buy a couple of some new furniture and so on." In 30, in 60 days to raise $10 million. In 29 days, I called the audience again, and I said, this was the audience about 500 people, and I said, "Guess what? We didn't raise the $10 million. We raised $20 million. We didn't raise it in 60 days. We raised it in 30 days."
>> Wow. >> "Let your soul never again doubt that to the person who has faithful courage and a sense of momentum and a degree of of commitment, that you can achieve your goals."
>> Wow. >> "And that's my message to students that when you were born, God created you in your own, in his own image. When God breathed in your nostrils and gave your life, God intended for you to be extraordinary. Our call to action at High Point University is, 'Choose to be extraordinary.' It's a choice." And so that day, the world changed. Ken, that day, people believed something can happen. Oh my goodness, if this can happen, >> anything can happen. Yeah. We've invested $3 billion in High Point University, raised about a billion dollars in gifts. It's amazing what can happen when you get up in the morning and say, "Thank you, Lord, for granting me the opportunity to help other people achieve their goals." People will rally, >> yes, >> to you and say, "I'm here and I want to help."
I want to ask you real quick about the behind the scenes there because I love that you've exceeded the goal, but there I just know there had to be some pretty effective vision casting. I'd love for you to speak tactically. >> What did you do that leaders, managers, >> real people who want to cast a vision for their own life, what did you do tactically to put a vision forward to where you doubled the goal in half the time?
You know, a vision is a wonderful thing, but it's useless unless it is clear. >> So you have to have a clarity of vision. Go, you know, rule number one is have a clear vision. Then the, the strategy follows, then the practical systems, then the execution. And so for me, what, what I did is I said, uh, "Look, this is a school that's been here for 80 years, and I think we can make something happen, but this ain't working." That's right. We got to come up with a new approach and, and, um, let us together think of some things that we can do. So, what did we do? We thought of the student. The student. And I told faculty and everybody, "The student comes first." Let's think, "What is it that this 17-year-old or 18-year-old who enters the hollowed hallways of this institution to learn, what must they learn? And more importantly, who must they become so that when they exit the hollowed hallways, they can find success that can lead to significance, they can find legacy that leads to impact, that their life can be enriched because they are making the world a better place?" But Ken, nothing happens until people trust you. >> Yes. >> So when somebody trusts you, then they want to be a part of your mission. And the question is, where does this trust come from? It comes from a repetitive pattern of behavior that says, "I'm a trustworthy person. Your word is good with me." And together, when I tell you we're going to do something, we're going to give it everything we can to do it. Now, obviously, I visited with people. Obviously, I shared about what can happen and, and where we can go from there. I'm an immigrant. So, as an immigrant, when I came to America, I understood if I worked hard enough, and if I worked with the right people, and if I didn't give up, forget the idea of a recession. Recessions are only an opportunity to do better. >> And when people are resting and and complaining and and and whining, this is the time for us to rise and make something happen. So it was natural for me to say, "I think the tomorrows of our life can be better than the yesterdays of our life. Now, let's charge forth with faith and see what can happen."
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You spoke some truth. Hey, this isn't working. They all knew it, but they knew that you knew it. >> And then you got real serious on, "It feels like a philosophy. Student first." And I just want to call out, I'm learning with our audience. This feels like a great strategy for our company as well. Employee first, customer first. This is culture stuff. So, you establish that. But how specific >> did you get in those early days on a vision of where we're going?
>> Boy, would I like to tell you that I'm a genius. You're talking to a genius here who saw every part of it, chapter one, verse one. Of course not. Sure. All you can do is get up in the morning and say, "Can I make today better than yesterday? Can we do something today that will propel us forward? Can we talk to somebody today who will partner with us in this mission?" So, of course, I saw that we can do a couple of things. >> We can build this building. We can build a nice dorm. We can change this street. We can do those kinds of things. But the truth is, it was an unveiling of, of God's plan, really, that said, "I will put my hand on this school, and it will prosper." It was an unveiling one step at a time. And as we did this, then we had the means to do that. And as we did this and that, we realized, "This is working. I think we can double it," and so on and so forth. And then we began to see what's happening in the lives of the students. You know, your students will tell you, your customers will tell you what will work in their life. And so we began to listen to parents. What is it that parents want? Think about this. This sounds so simple, but parents will invest 17, 18 years, um, teaching their children and modeling for their children principles for life and values for living. And then occasionally, parents will place their son or daughter in a school that's devoid of those values. I tell parents, "That's called malpractice." You spend all this time preparing them with these values, and then you put them somewhere that is the antithesis of what you're thinking of. So we asked the question, "What are those values? What do these parents want for their child?" Parents want their kids to go to college, learn, grow, get a job, get off their payroll, >> and have a very successful life. And so that's how the mission came to be. And that's therefore the vision followed that mission. It wasn't that we wanted to build, you know, in my tenure now at High Point, I'm the longest-serving president, sitting president of any institution in North Carolina. It wasn't like we wanted, "Let's go out there and build 108 buildings," which is what we built. It wasn't like I said, "Let's go from the 91 acres that were landlocked to 600 acres of land," which is where we are. It wasn't that I said, "Let's go from 1,400 students to 6,600." No, what we said is, "How can we become more distinctive and more influencing as we guide and lead and mentor those young people?" And out of that emerged the possibilities that we can do this, and we can do that, and this is working for them, and, and so that's, so the, my personal vision was limited compared to what we see today. If you are measuring vision by the set of things that you do, on the other hand, if you're measuring vision by the desire in your heart, by the, by the, the impact that that your soul is driving you to, then I think I had a very big vision that anything is possible, that there's no such thing as unrealistic dreams, and that the tomorrows of our life can be significantly enhanced. That's what I believe. This is the story of America. >> This is what happened in America. People believed that you can make something happen. Your work and Dave Ramsey's work is all about, "Hey, we can do better and we can march onwards and forwards in ways that maybe we had not thought were possible, but now we're finding out they are possible."
You know, your answer to that question takes me back to what you said earlier. It just feels like you were intentional to model faithful courage. A phrase you used a moment ago, and I think we got to go back and, and I want you to unpack that. Those words are intentional. I know enough about you to know that you chose those words. So define for us, what is faithful courage? >> And how can we begin to do it in our everyday life?
>> Yes. You know, Ken, God is not a busboy. God will give us, um, strength and wisdom, maybe even health and energy to move forward, but, but God is not going to do the basic work for you. So, it's important to have faith, but you got to act on it. You got to make something happen. So, for me, I'm a person of faith. I believe that God has a plan for my life. I believe God, uh, God has blessed High Point University in measurable and meaningful ways. And, but you have to have courage. My mother, Ken, sent me to America, >> 17-year-old lad, 7,000 miles away. >> Wow. >> To go to college and learn. She had fourth-grade education. She had to borrow the money to send me on a one-way ticket. When you come on a one-way ticket >> with $35 in your pocket and you land in Eastern North Carolina, and you can't speak English well, and you can't understand them either with their southern, southern accent, you, you merge the two. You got problems, my friend. Yeah, you got problems. You know, first time I went to a store to buy something, and, and I was paying the lady, and, and I was leaving the store, and she said, "Thank you. Come back." I came right back, of course. And I said, "Yes, ma'am." What? She said, "No, no, no. This was just a nice way of saying." So, I came to America on a one-way ticket. Ken, there was no way going back. >> Right. >> In those days, you didn't have iPhones. You didn't have FaceTime. You, you, you, the only way you can communicate with your mother is to write a letter and send it in the mail. It took seven days to get there, and then if your mother answered immediately, seven more, that's two weeks. You have no choice but to get up in the morning and say, "I will," and I hope in my heart that I can. You have no alternative to that. That's courage, my friend. When you do that which others are not willing to do, when you step forth, when the road before you is not well lit, and it's not well-paved, and there are potholes there, that's courage. But nothing happens without courage. And courage alone is not enough because if all you have is courage, without faith, you're going to, you're going to make some big mistakes. Yes, you're going to go down pathways that may not be in your best interest. So that's why I said, "If you have faithful courage, you can make amazing things happen."
Use the word intentionality, which we hear a lot about High Point, that people say this intentional. But, but for me, intention is good as long as it's congruent. >> That's the context. >> Yes. >> So you can be intentional, but if it's not congruent with all else that makes you a balanced individual, that's not enough. That can get us to places we shouldn't go. So for me, it's all about intentional congruence, not just about congruence, not just about intention. But you put the two together, and you've got something. So because English is my second language, I think maybe a little bit differently about words and, and, and, um, the combination of words. But faithful courage is a beautiful thing when you think about it. >> You know, you, you have faith in God, you have faith in America. You know, our values at High Point University are God, family, country. We stand on these values. Parents send their children there because they believe, "Hey, this is an extension of our home, God, family, country." But the faithful courage allows us to say, "We are the premier life skills university." So we've built an ecosystem, a system that literally penetrates every classroom, every activity that enables you to become ready for life. So that when you go find a job, and 99.2% of our students, by the way, within 180 days of graduation, find a job, go to graduate school, or start a business. When you get involved in that world, you're ready. You don't need six months of, "Let me teach you some of the basics of life." So that's what I mean by faithful courage. It's something that resides in your soul. It's in your personhood. It's in your visceral. You feel it. You may not be able to explain it perfectly, but you feel it. And that's drives you every day with enthusiasm.
>> That's beautiful. I love that so much. You've called yourself a calculated risk-taker. >> So what is your process for calculating risk?
>> Well, first of all, I think the single most important skill that you can learn in your life, if you're going to be in business, for example, is to be a risk manager. If you don't understand how to manage risks, you're unlikely to take appropriate risks. Yeah. Now, I'm not saying go out there, do crazy things, hence the word calculated. I am a risk manager. Therefore, I can boldly charge forth in ways that a casual observer might say, "I can't believe you're doing that." But if you know how to manage risk, you'll do that. Here's my simple formula for that. I look at anything. Let's say it's an investment in a real estate property, or it's a, a new program we're going to do at High Point University. I ask three questions. First question is, "What's the best thing that can happen as a result of taking this risk?" Now, that's easy. You know the best thing that can happen. We can deal with that any day of the week. Second question, "What's the most likely thing to happen if I were to take that risk?" Third question, the most important question of all. "What's the worst thing that can happen?"
>> That's right. >> And then the way I make a decision is very simple. I say, "If the most likely thing to happen will get me closer to my goals, and if I'm willing to deal with the worst thing that can happen, I go for it. I go for it with gusto." But if the most likely thing to happen will not get me closer to my goals, what am I crazy? Why am I even attempting this? >> And if I'm not willing to deal with the worst thing that can happen, I'm taking a risk that perhaps I cannot manage. M >> And that, my friend, has saved me so many times in my life. And that, my friend, has catapulted me >> to great successful decisions so many times in my business life and now in my leadership of High Point University.
As I write these down, I, I think that what these questions allow us to do is to separate the emotion for a moment, and we combine logic and emotion. I love those three questions. But I think many times we don't ask those questions. We just, "I want to do it. I'm going to take a shot." We don't even think about >> how would we even deal with the worst thing. And then when the worst thing happens, we're caught off guard, right? >> Not mentally or emotionally prepared for it. And many times financially prepared >> and then make bad decisions. >> Yeah. >> Bad, quick decisions. Like sometimes you get out of a business venture because you got scared because you see something happening when really, had you thought through it earlier, you would know that that's one of the steps that you must, you must travel through. Oh, I love that. All right, we have a question behind us.
>> Okay, I'm curious. Looking back over your life, is there a specific decision that you made that at the time felt more risky, um, or just a decision that maybe a lot of people misunderstood that you would look back and say, "That was transformative in my life?"
>> Oh my goodness, my friend. I've made so many of those. How much time do you have? Um, let me just give you a couple of them. Um, I had just, I started my first business on faith, really. I came out of graduate school. I'd say $500 the hard way. And, um, I didn't want to work for anyone, so I just started my business. It was a direct mail business. Now, in those days, we had no social media, you know, no e-commerce. So, you literally printed a catalog, you sent out to thousands of people, and you hoped and prayed people are going to respond. And occasionally, they responded. And there were times when they did not respond. That was, we're looking back over it now, that was a very dangerous thing I did. But my heart was filled with courage, and I believed so much in the entrepreneurial spirit that I went for it. Now, that business did not last long. I sold it, and it led me to so many other things. Then I started making money in the world of speaking. I spoke 8,500 times all over the world, and that led to consulting. And so now I had some money. So I told my wife, I've been married 48 years. My wife, I have to tell you, um, my wife made a millionaire out of me. Um, before I married her, however, I was a multi-millionaire. So, um, so let me just tell you that I said to my wife, "A couple of friends called me up, and they want to start a bank." And so I took all the money I had in something called KEO, which is like an IRA, and I saved some significant monies there from my speaking and consulting, and I said, "I want to put it in this bank." And my wife said, "We don't want to do that. I mean, what do you know about banking?" So, I don't know much about banking, but I know a lot about sales and marketing and branding and so on. I put the money in that bank. It was called American Bank and Trust in High Point, North Carolina. Let me just tell you what happened. The bank tripled in size in three years. I became the single individual largest shareholder of the bank. So to sell the bank, they had to talk to me, and I, I sold the bank with approval of our board to a company called Southern National in Lumberton, North Carolina. It was $1.2 billion in assets at this bank we sold to. To me, that was an enormously large bank at the time. At the time, I was consultant to another bank, and they were paying me $100,000 a year to access me for advice. Southern National said, "You got the price that you wanted, and we want you on our board. I think you could be very helpful to us in the future." Now, they only pay $12,000 a year for you to be a bank director. Now, try to imagine this. $12,000 as a bank director. I'm making $100,000 a year from this other bank. Couldn't do both. It's a conflict of interest. Same footprint. What would you do? I ask entrepreneurs, "What would you do? Would you take the $100,000 a year that's going to go on maybe forever, or would you resign that account and take $12,000 a year to be a director?" What do you think I did? I joined the board of that bank because I knew I can always replace the consulting relationship, but to get on the board. That, my friend, was a scary thing to do, to put the money in and something I wasn't very familiar with, and then to make another decision to join that board, the bank giving away, you know, $88,000 in compounding monies that could have grown over the years. But guess what happened? That bank grew to $9 billion. Merged with another bank. They put me on that board too. Then that bank merged again with another bank. So it became BB&T. Merged with SunTrust. Today it's called Truist. >> Mhm. >> Truist is a $670 billion in assets bank, and I was the longest-serving director on Truist for 40 years. Became a director of a bank and made significant return on investment, needless to say. But that was a dangerous thing to do twice over. And both times I exercised, didn't know the term at the time, exercised faithful courage. Took me new places. In the year 2000, another friend came to me. Remember this, what my mother said, "Who you spend time with, so we become." Can, the larger and deeper your circle of influence, >> the smaller and more shallow is your circle of concerns. >> So if you want to have less concerns about life, just make sure you're in a great circle of influence. And so my friends came to me and said, uh, "Look, there's a company out there called Great Harvest Bread Company. It's for sale. Let's buy it." And I said, "Buy a bread company? I mean, what do I know about bread for heaven's sakes?" Said, "No, Neidato. If you will come in into it, I think we can make good things." So there again, I bought into this company. Eventually, I own 72% of this company, national company, 240 stores across America. What do you think happened in 2000? We bought the company. Today, Ken, within 30 days, a guy called Dr. Atkins >> came on the scene. Wow. >> And said, "Don't eat carbs." And I thought, "Oh my Lord, what have I done?" Hey, where's Dr. Atkins today? Unfortunately, he died. He didn't eat carbs. That's what happens. The company grew and grew. The bank and that Great Harvest Bread Company, which I sold to private equity, were two of the greatest financial decisions. There were bounties for me, and both of them were born out of scary decisions. The decision in, in both cases, was not crystal clear. I didn't know all the answers. There were potholes in the road, but faithful courage, hopeful heart, a desire to grow and to keep moving forward. That's the answer to that question.
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I can't even imagine how many hours you've spoken publicly between, you know, all of the different companies you ran. Uh, very, very successful keynote speaker for many decades, and now in your role. And communication, I think, is, it's one of the great soft skills. It's a super skill if you do it well. And this is an audience that wants to grow professionally. So, at some point, they're going to have to give a presentation or maybe some type of a speech. I think we'd be crazy not to ask you, what's your process for developing a message, whether it be a keynote or maybe a sales presentation? You have all that experience. Give us the, the neatest process. How do you create something from scratch?
>> Yeah. Um, it's a great question. It is a very important question because I agree with your premise that you must learn how to communicate. But, you know, communication has to be in a dyad. It's with another person. You can't have monologues. And duet, you do your thing, I do my thing. And so the most important thing about being an effective speaker is not just the skill of being on the platform and engaging the audience and saying intelligent things, but rather focus. Your focus must be on that audience. Ken, the reason I survived over these many decades, having given 8,500 presentations with a great demand for my speaking, is that I don't memorize speeches. I obviously have an arsenal of information and, and, and, and content that I can bring forward. But it's that I look at the audience, say, "Who are they? >> And, and what is important to them? And what can they get from this presentation that can enhance their life, that can move them forward in some meaningful way?" I have people come to me all the time, and I say, "I remember when you said this." I said, "30 years ago, I said, 'You remember that? Absolutely changed my life.'" I get that all the time. And, and so for me, the process is, you invite me to speak. My first question is, "Who's going to be in the audience?" My second question is, "Why are they there?" My third question is, "What do you believe are the things that would make them more successful in your business, in your company?" You know, is it hard work? Is it smart work? Is it, what is it? And then I form some idea what I want to say to them. Always, always my speaking will engage one or two or three principles that could be useful to you in your life. There are always also include something personal, a story from my own life, and usually it's a story of pain. It's not always a story of, of achievement. It's a story of, "I went through this, and man, it was tough. >> I got up in the middle of the night in cold sweat, afraid about this or that."
Tell our audience why that's so important.
>> Because the number one motivator for all of us is fear. We're afraid of doing things. We're afraid to cross the chasms across. We, we're afraid to cross a rubric, so to speak. We're afraid to climb a new mountain because we're afraid of failure. We're afraid that, well, if I fail, I'd lose my money. I might lose my friends. They might think less of me. So, it is, it is important to say we're human beings, and we relate better at that level. So if I tell you that, look, man, I've been through hell and back several times, you, you're going to trust me more. You're going to feel like you and I can build the bridge of understanding one with the other. That's why that's important. But I'll tell you what's also important. Clarity is important. >> Clarity of thought creates clarity of speaking, of messaging. Therefore, creates clarity in action. >> Clarity is very, very important. Without it, I've heard speakers just go on and on and on and on, and then you can't remember what they said. They confuse you more than they help you. And so clarity is important. I, for, for example, I spoke to an audience the other day of all CEOs, and the primary thing I want to get across to them is sensitivity with their employees and customers. Now, I couldn't get up there and say, "Are you sensitive to your, you know, customers and, and, and employees' needs?" That'd be kind of a silly thing for me to say. But, but I said to them, "Write down on a piece of paper in front of you the three strengths of your company, the three great things about your company, like customers would say." And I waited for a second. Then I say, "Write down three things that you believe your customers don't like about your company." They struggled with that. Then I made the point that they have their own cell number, their own direct number. They're somewhat disconnected from the feeling and the response and the complaint of that client, that customer. And the message was, "Get more connected with reality." Reality is defined as what is. Is wishing something is so does not make it so. So, the only way you can be real is to walk around, see the people, engage your customers, engage your employees, learn their names, call them when they have a sad, they lose somebody in their family, send them an email when it's their birthday, give them a gift when they have a child. Simple human connections. And those things go a long way in creating believability and trust. And then I'll listen to you, and then I will do some of the things that you say.
What's the emotional journey that you take the audience on, no matter what the content is? Because I love how you said it's how you start and finish. So I know this, 'cause I do keynotes, you know it. We're taking the audience somewhere. Yes. >> And, and I'm curious, what your desired process is? What's that emotional range that you find to be most effective?
>> Well, besides, besides humor. >> Mhm. I speak for an hour, and you laugh 30, 40 times. Uh, usually one-line stuff. Nobody wants, nobody wants a joke anymore. Three-minute joke doesn't work anymore. All of us have ADD, and we don't want that. We want to, we want you to be fast. Um, and second is some degree of pain is a good thing. The audience feels like you're more real when they walk into a journey that attaches to their own personal experiences. Yeah. Because adversity is real. But the main thing is that you have to show the audience that out of adversity can emerge abundance. That adversity doesn't last. If you talk about someone in your family who had cancer, for example, um, people in the audience are going to relate to that story. They know somebody, or they are somebody, or they're married to somebody who's experienced that. But there has to be some, some, um, degree of hopefulness at the end of that, not to leave them hanging over here in a state of sadness. >> But emotions are really important because I will not believe you until I like you. >> I want to do business with people I like, I respect, and I trust. >> Those are emotions, really. >> Yes. >> Trust is an emotion. Liking is an emotion, and so on. >> And, and so, yes, you got to take them through that, that journey. What you can't do is take them up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down. Then they're exhausted. >> Right. So you have to sort of start easy. Usually in the first 90 seconds, I'm telling you why I believe you should listen to what I'm saying. I don't say it in that way, but you get the gist of it, that that there is going to be some >> concepts here that are pregnant in my presentation that can induce sophisticated results for you in your life. And you have, then you, of course, they have to have the skill of speaking, and that's, that's really comes out of three Ps: pause, pace, and pitch.
>> Oh, that's good. Now, this is a master class. For the person who's never unpacked that, they want to get better at it. Walk them through tactically, those three Ps.
>> So, pause is the sound of silence. So, let me give you an example. I could say to you, Ken, "I'm so glad to be with you today. Let me tell you what happened to me last week. Last week, I had something really dramatic that happened to me." Or I can say to you, "Ken, so wonderful to be with you today. Let me, let me, um, tell you what happened to me last week. Last week, you're not going to believe this. I met somebody that encouraged me in ways I never thought possible. In ways, Ken, I never thought possible." That's pause. Yeah. >> So, you're pausing between your words and your sentences. And the reason the pause is important is the listener can then hear it, listen to it, absorb it, acknowledge it, and understand it. Pace is how the speed with which you speak. Pause. >> Yes. >> Pitch and pace. Pitch is is modulation of your voice. When you talk about something emotional, you have to, you say, "My wife had cancer when my youngest was only 8 years of age." >> Or you could say, "You won't believe when I went to that game the other night, how great it was." >> Yes. >> You see the modulation of voice. >> And the most boring of speakers who just are like this >> are not professional speakers. >> That's right. You know, I love that. And, and by the way, I want our audience to know this. They can practice that. You just gave three very tactical things that people can practice and over time become a better communicator. I want to switch it a little bit. Let's go to the everyday manager leader in a company, no matter the size. >> And they're not giving a keynote. >> They're just conducting what is an important or a fundamental moment of communication with the company. What is there any different advice you'd give to the leader on effective communication in an important meeting?
>> Yes. And, and, and, um, the word vector in the English language means a mathematical direction with force. >> So my advice to leaders when they speak is that they not be auto-vectoral. Auto-vectoral is when comes from me. "I want us to do this. I need you to do that. You know, I did it, and you, you can do it." That's auto-vectoral. I'm using myself as the point of reference. Instead, we should be alo-vectoral. Alo-vectoral is, "You can impress me beyond measure because you've been able to do these things." Instead of, um, "I looked at your life, Ken, and I, I concluded that you've done some amazing things." These are, they create two completely different emotions in the listener. The best leaders I know are the ones who are focused on the fears, the goals, the needs, and the aspirations of the people they choose to lead. Now, you can manage a process, but when you lead, you're leading people. And so, people are all about my experiences, my frame of reference, my background, my feelings, my fears, what I want to do in my life, and so on. The leader who focuses on that and uses language that therefore connects at that level is going to get people to follow that leader and be a partner to that leader and be much, much more committed to the to the process and the mission than otherwise.
>> Oh, it's so rich. Okay. You have a lot of content on self-esteem and healthy self-esteem. >> And this could go the wrong direction here. How we talk to ourselves, coach us on building a healthy self-esteem and why it's so important to do so.
>> Yeah. I mean, first, first the truth of the matter is, we all have some self-doubt. >> Let's agree on that. You know, >> Do you agree that only people that are moving forward deal with doubt? >> Absolutely. Because they are trying to do something, right? >> The, the one who's sitting in the chair eating peanuts, doing nothing all day, >> no doubt. >> There's no worry about that. But when you're trying to do something, when you're activating something in your life, of course you're going to have some, some doubt. But doubt can be overcome with skill. Doubt can be overcome by knowing how to manage risks. Doubt can be overcome by having people who are your guides, your mentors, your, your, your heroes in your life. You see, Ken, I believe that if you want to have better results in your life, which
is what self-esteem is all about. You want to have self-esteem because you want to do better in life. Because you want to feel better. Because you want to be able to move forward with a sense of "I can" rather than "I'm nobody and don't look at me" and "I don't want to get up there and speak" and "whatever you do to me, just just put the light away from me." Right? Because they're not sure of themselves.
The best way we can get good results in life is not only from behaviors. When we're teaching someone to just improve their behavior, we miss the point. It is our beliefs that lead to our behaviors. What I believe caused me to behave the way I behave. I believe you're a great host. I believe you're a kind and gentle person. I believe you're not going to embarrass me today. So therefore, I'm going to be free with you and behave in ways that that are natural and so on. So my beliefs, I believe America is a land of opportunity. I believe America today still has the American dream alive and well. I believe everybody can make something of their life. Therefore, I behave in that way. And when I behave in that way, I then get the results that I want. In the middle of all that, I need some coaching. I need some people to guide me and direct me.
Self-esteem is all about beliefs. What I believe about me. If all my life you've been telling me I'm no good, I'm not smart, I'm ugly, I'm this, I'm that, that might penetrate my soul. But if I read books that say, "No, wait a minute. You can't give yourself a new rebirth." If I watch a show like this one, if I if I go to seminars and improve, all of a sudden I begin to think, "Wait a minute, I must break that paradigm." Yes, >> I must throw the box outside the window. When people say "think outside the box," that bothers me. Thinking outside the box does not lead you to great results. Thinking outside the box means you're still using the box as your frame of reference. >> Yes. >> So, you're using last year's ideas to try to break outside the box. I say, throw the box outside the window. When I became president of Hype University, I said to everybody, "Throw the box outside the window. Just throw it out." In other words, zero-based thinking.
The best advice I give to people is to say, if you were starting your life all over again or you're starting a business all over again, which by the way leads to self-esteem, and you have no restraint on resources, you have access to all the resources you want, and you want to create the perfect business for you. What would that look like? So when I went to Hype University, I said, "Let's assume we're starting university from scratch and we want to serve the needs of the students in the best way possible, and we have no limit on resources. What would that look like? Let's define it, and once we define it, let's go do it."
I mentioned great harvest moments some moments ago with all the managers of the Great Harvest stores. One day I said, because I wanted to change that paradigm that we can be somebody, we can be distinctive, we can be the best, we can be extraordinary. And I said, "Here's what we're going to do. New rule. The lady who comes to our store to buy our goods cannot enter our store anymore unless she buys a ticket that gives her the right to enter our store." They looked at me like, "This man has gone crazy." I said, "If she has to buy a ticket that gives her the right to enter our store to buy our goods, what must we do in our store so that she would not be upset she bought the ticket?" >> Now, I said, "We're not going to we're not going to charge her a ticket, >> but let's talk." >> Oh my goodness. Somebody said, "I think we'll put >> music in the store." Somebody said, "We'll wear exciting clothes. We'll say, 'Welcome to, you know, to Great Harvest.'" Somebody said, "We'll create a little place for children to play with crayons." Someone said, "We will stop giving samples. No more samples of bread. We'll give samples of bread. We'll put the bread there in big supply. Take a chunk. Take some butter. Take some take some honey and and enjoy it." Wow. I said, "That's it. Why don't we think like that? That applies to any business. If you have to charge your customer money so that they can do business with you, >> how must your business be like so they would not mind paying you for that thing?"
I want to go back to something you just said. You just asked the next question. "Why don't we think that way?" >> Yeah. "Why don't we think that way?" >> And and and I love what you did. You used a question, which is why I love what I get to do. Questions are scalpels. They're keys that unlock that that that, you know, cut out the junk or find something. But why don't we think that way? Because our level of awareness often is limited. So I can't think in deeper ways if I don't exist in environments that that enable me to be exposed to greater ways. It's that simple. So if you hang around people whose mind is "I'm going to make this much money," >> you'll get to this much money, you think you succeeded, but the moment you you you expand that, bam. Wow, I didn't realize that world is there. You know, everybody >> who taught you to ask that question. >> I'm sorry. >> Who taught you or where did you observe the the mindset to ask your team that question and then they just started spouting ideas? >> Know the answer to your question. That's what I thought. >> I don't know the answer to that question. >> It is in the universe, my friend. >> It's like it's like how did I like to eat figs? I don't know. >> He just likes to eat figs. >> But how did I become aware of the fact I like figs? That's the essence of what I'm saying. >> Yeah. >> Is that I was in a place where they're figs and someone said, "Try these figs," right? Or whatever it might be. So, so everybody wants to talk about relevance. You have to be relevant. Your product must be relevant. Your system must be relevant. Yes, but that misses the point. I want to be relevant. How do I become relevant? >> Yes. >> And my answer to that is >> you must have a level of awareness. >> You must be aware of the potential out there. You must be that's that's also to self-esteem. Self-esteem is about, "Oh my gosh, I can do these things," right? Awareness. Awareness then leads to judgment. >> Yeah. >> Then I can make good solid judgment, good choices that then leads to relevance. You know, can everybody wants to talk about value, right? Everybody says, "Well, you must render value. I must render value. This restaurant must render value and so on." I don't care about the word "value." That is such a remedial way to look at life. I have never met a human being who does not render value. Everybody renders value. The question is, is the value that you render appreciated by me? >> Mhm. >> That's the question. Simple example, Steve Rhinerman was the chairman CEO of PepsiCo, friend of mine, he's retired some years ago. If Steve has sent me a truckload of Pepsi products, nothing wrong with Pepsi product. If you send me a whole truckload and he said, "Nato, you cannot sell it. You can't put it on eBay. You can't give it away, you would agree that has value. You know that Pepsi sells a lot of products. It's it's creates a lot of money that that's worth money. But I just prefer not Pepsi products, some other products. So therefore, it had no appreciated value. If I gave you two tickets, first-class tickets to Hawaii, when you get to Hawaii, get on the best cruise ship you've ever seen and have the imperial suite there for two weeks, all expenses paid. You cannot give those tickets away. You cannot sell them. You must use them or lose them. >> Has value. >> Yes. >> But if you're afraid of flying, Ken, >> that's it. >> And you get motion sickness on the ship, >> that would not have appreciated value. >> That's true. >> So the question is, the way we become relevant is to provide appreciated value in every way. The moment we learn that simple principle, we catapult ourselves to the moon.
In the city of Nashville, some some great restaurants, some great steakhouses. >> Oh, yes. >> They're pretty expensive. They're not cheap. Why would someone spend $80 for a good steak versus buying, you know, some other thing for $20? Because I appreciate how they treat me. >> How they treat you, how it tastes. >> Yeah. The music, the ambiance, the view, all of that. Appreciated. >> Why do you have so many viewers to this podcast? They appreciate >> That's right. >> what you have, the value of the conversation. >> That's the simple principle about life. And when people say to me, "How do I become successful?" >> Success comes from service. Just lose yourself in serving others. Just make sure the context of what you do is all-encompassing, not just one aspect, and see what happens. >> Yeah. So good. Okay. Last topic. The data on this problem in the American workplace, the American culture at large really hasn't changed over the last decade. Uh but uh we just did a big survey here at Ramsey for this show. Two biggest issues that American professionals are identifying that they're struggling with is burnout >> and a lack of work-life balance. You could essentially underneath those causes could kind of put a hula hoop around both of those, >> but I think it would be great to hear your take as a high performer, a guy who has led a lot of different people >> that ex that professional who's feeling burned out. They're struggling with how much work, life, and trying to get it all done and they come to you and they're all frazzled and they say, "Dr. Cabain, help me out." >> Yeah. >> What's one or two things that you say do? >> First thing I want to focus is on your purpose because happiness comes from purpose. If you have the right purpose in your life, you don't see work as out of balance. You see work as a fulfillment >> Yes. of the very desire you have to make the world a better place. Right? Uh I look forward to work. Work is not punishment for me. Work is beautiful. It's it's it's so fulfilling. It's filled with potential. Now you say burnout. There are two kinds of burnouts. There's physical burnout. That's easy. Take a vacation for a week. Do nothing. Read a good book. Sit under an umbrella. Sit in front of a fireplace. And just relax. You'll be okay. And then there's the spiritual burnout. >> That's the emotional burnout. That's tough. And what we need to do is not deal with what happens. We need to deal with it before it happens. And so people who suffer from emotional burnout, that is that's a clinical term that has all kinds of implications. I am no expert to to lay groundwork on that. Work-life balance. I don't know what that means. I think life balance is the word. Life is the umbrella. Under life, there are many things. There's family, there's faith, there's service to humankind. Oh, by the way, there's work >> and there's the enjoyment of the fruits of your work. How you balance that out has to be in adherence with what works for you and in adherence with what works for the environment or the enterprise with which you're engaged. So if you are if you are working with me on my team, I expect you to be excellent at what you do. I expect you to work smart. I expect you to manage your energy, not just your time. I expect you to lead people in a fruitful, meaningful, impactful way. And so when people say, "I have to have work-life balance." More often than not, they're talking about private time rather than work time. And and you have to say, "Okay, great. We want to have work-life balance. Define it for me in your life and define to me in your work." M >> but if you want to make money and live and go on a on a cruise and and and buy a car and so on, you also have to balance your work. Otherwise, you will not be a person of appreciated value. Otherwise, you won't have what what you need in life, right? It's that simple. >> Yeah, that's good. I love that. One of the things I find fascinating about successful women and men that I get a chance to talk to and and spend time with is that there is a shared hunger to continue to learn. Yes. >> Even at this stage of all of your success. >> Yes. >> What do you find gives you some hunger? What are you hungry to learn? Even now, >> First of all, school is never out for the pro. >> If you want to be a pro at what you do, you're always in search of an expanded base of knowledge because the world is changing. And so to be using yesterday's ideas to be predictive about tomorrow's possibilities is foolhardy. You have to constantly be in search. So for me, anything I can learn about human beings, you know, I'm I I love, for example, sales and marketing. Sales and marketing is all about the psychology of of why people buy, right? I love entrepreneurship. Well, entrepreneurship is about the entrepreneurial spirit, really, right? An entrepreneur can do anything. I was in banking and real estate and speaking and consulting and and and and Great Harvest. And now in education, I've used the same fundamentals in every one of those endeavors. The fundamentals are all foundational principles are all the same. So, so I think I think that the best people I know are the ones who read, watch podcasts that they can learn from. Someone watching this time together may get one thing out of what we say and it may not be the thing that they will apply in their life. It may be the byproduct of something you said I said that they will apply in their life. But that's how we learn. That's how we grow. How do you become a fast reader? By reading a lot. How do you become a better thinker? By hanging around good thinkers. >> How do I know how to answer your questions? By being with intelligent people like you who ask me some penetrating questions. You haven't asked me a single question that was a what I would call a direct question. I can just answer you with what the number is this or the color is that. You've asked me questions I've had to think about, right? And so, so, so to me, that comes from an ongoing process of learning. Learning allows us to to become better. And how we learn, we learn by doing, we learn by reading, we learn by being exposed to intelligent minds. Ken, I've always had friends who were 15, 20 years older than me. >> Yes. I figure they've been through it, you know, and they can point the road to me. And so I love to learn from people. In the old days when I used to, you know, speak and I take a taxi to the airport, I would always ask the taxi driver questions, >> especially if they're older, you know, what did you do and what did you learn? If you had to live your life over again, what would you what would you change? I learned so much from that. >> And so, you know, I'm I am a sponge. Yes. >> For learning new things. I read two books a week. >> And um I don't like everything I read. >> Yeah. >> And sometimes I skip a page because it's redundant. But invariably I learn something and I go, "Wow." And then I write it in my journal. Yes. >> And I find a way to use it in my life. >> I love that. I I was going to say this and I'm a little embarrassed now, but I I've for years now I've been doing a biography a month about people that have done something significant. And it's so fascinating what you can learn from people that we esteem, but I learn more from their struggles and their failures. And that's why I think biographies are just master classes. Absolutely. >> So very good. >> You know, Ken, I'm writing my own autobiography now. >> Oh, good. >> Because my daughter said, "I want your dad to chronicle the stories of your life and so on." You know what I found? I found that they had so many angels in my life. >> You know what's so sad? I've forgotten some of their names. >> I remember the impact they had in my life. I'm so ashamed of myself >> because I like to go back to their children, grandchildren say, "Your father, your grandfather was so helpful to me. Let me let me let me pay it forward in some meaningful way." But what it does is reminding me of the journey of my life. >> Yes. and the good and the bad, the struggles and the victories. It's something I would recommend to everyone, even if you don't publish, even just for your own self. >> That's right. >> Just chronicle your life and remember how you got here in the first place. >> That's incredible advice. Well, it's a great segue. What'd you learn today? The reason we have these conversations is so that you can learn something, but most most importantly, do something with it. And I always try to give you something that I'm going to take away. There was so much here, but I I I really wrote down this and and and I think this is huge for all of us. And this isn't just a professional application. "Where and how can I create appreciated value?" That's the question I wrote right here. "Where and how can I create appreciated value?" I'm thinking in my house. I'm thinking for my wife. I'm thinking for my kids. I'm thinking of my friends that I do life with. Obviously, you the audience uh and and the greater customer here at Ramsey Solutions. That is a really important question. So, I challenge you to write that down and revisit it one time a day over the next seven days. That's what I'm going to do. And I think you'll be blown away by what clarity comes to you through such a powerful question. Uh so, so good. So, hey, if you're enjoying the show, do the things. You know what it is. Like, subscribe, share, and if you'd like to be a part of our live studio audience, well, you can click on the link in our show notes and get a schedule of who's coming up, and we'd love to have you here. To my friends here in the studio, thank you so much for spending your valuable time with us. I know I learned something. I'm sure you did. Would you join me in thanking Dr. Neato Cubain for being with us today? Thank you. >> Thank you, Doc. That was amazing. >> Thank you. It's my pleasure being with you. So, thank you so much for having >> Yeah, you bet. Have you been driving hard after your goals and are ready to get away? The Live Like No One Else Cruise is a 7-day experience in the Western Caribbean with me, Dave Ramsey, and the Ramsay Personalities. This isn't just a vacation. It's intentional time to step away, reset your perspective, and celebrate milestones in your financial journey. Cabins are filling up fast, and I want you, my audience, to have a front row seat to this experience. Go to ramseysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes.